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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, A production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson

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Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Frye. We talked about the Missouri Leviathan

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Speaker 1: this week. Yeah, something I learned about myself. I cannot

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Speaker 1: spell mascodon correctly the first time. I want one of

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Speaker 1: the o's to be an a, and I thought, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I thought maybe I would learn to spell it correctly

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Speaker 1: by the end of the episode. But what really happened

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Speaker 1: is that word learned what to automatically correct it to knowledge.

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Speaker 1: You figured it out. Yeah, there was some other There

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Speaker 1: was a second word in here that I was also

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Speaker 1: spelling wrong every time, but it was not a word

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Speaker 1: that happened as many times in this episode as massed on.

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Speaker 1: This is Zuglidon, because I love that one. I don't

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Speaker 1: even know how to say that one. I had a

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Speaker 1: very difficult time making my mouth include the correct letters

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Speaker 1: trying to say zuglanan. Yeah. Like I said at the

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Speaker 1: end of the episode, I really don't know how much

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Speaker 1: of this was him wanting to get people to come

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Speaker 1: to his museum and you know, make a living off

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Speaker 1: of these bones. How much of it was that, and

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Speaker 1: how much of it was just not knowing not knowing

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Speaker 1: what he was doing, being like, all of these bones

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Speaker 1: are together, and here are these bones from this other

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Speaker 1: place that look the same. Surely they are all one animal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was like a pro at archaeological fanfic. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: was just like, I'm this, of course this goes here.

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Speaker 1: Look how it do. I don't have any actual science

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Speaker 1: to back it up, but I think it matches. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is one of those stories. Right. We have talked

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Speaker 1: a lot about intent on the show and how good

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Speaker 1: intent without any kind of seeking of nuance or education

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Speaker 1: is meaningless and problematic. Yeah, but I do think there's

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Speaker 1: we've got to be able to carve out a little

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Speaker 1: space for someone who doesn't even know that there may

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Speaker 1: be ignorant, And he probably thought he was making these

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Speaker 1: really interesting intuitive connections that could solve problems of like

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Speaker 1: what we didn't understand, but it was very problematic. Well,

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Speaker 1: and there there have been other hoaxes that were more

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Speaker 1: clearly hoaxes, right, that caused a problem, like the piltdown

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Speaker 1: Man that was a hoax and that influenced research into

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Speaker 1: the origins of humanity. Sending a lot of people like

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Speaker 1: down the wrong path right for a damaging amount of time,

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Speaker 1: And I find that that kind of story like very frustrating.

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Speaker 1: But this is one where the people who did know

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Speaker 1: what they were doing were immediately like the you have

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Speaker 1: too many vertebrae and too many pairs of ribs. This

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Speaker 1: was not how this animal was like, this was not

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Speaker 1: something that prompted a whole bunch of research based on

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Speaker 1: something that was fake. If it had been, I would

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Speaker 1: have found it way less funny than I did. But no,

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Speaker 1: it seems like the people that had more knowledge pretty

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Speaker 1: quickly were like, no, this is is not correct, not

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Speaker 1: correct at all. And this gets into that space, right,

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Speaker 1: There are instances where someone from outside of a field,

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Speaker 1: because they are not bogged down with the accepted laws

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Speaker 1: and rules that everyone has been taught, actually do make

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Speaker 1: advances because they can see something that like, if you

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Speaker 1: have been indoctrinated with those laws and rules, which are

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Speaker 1: often very you know, well thought out and sensible, you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't see right. But and I don't know if he

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Speaker 1: thought he might be one of Yeah, there's a charitable

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Speaker 1: part of me that wants to think he thought he

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Speaker 1: was really making a jump that established scientists just couldn't see. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is possible that there is some sort of introspection

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Speaker 1: on these kinds of questions in the diary of his

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Speaker 1: that was translated into English. I did not use that

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Speaker 1: as a source for the episode beyond like fact checking

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Speaker 1: some specific details, just because there was so much other

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Speaker 1: stuff to do. But like he had another He had

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Speaker 1: a number of things that he published in Germany, in

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Speaker 1: German that have not been translated into English, and in

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Speaker 1: some cases not only have they been translated into English,

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Speaker 1: but like there's just not a scan of them, right

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Speaker 1: that you know, maybe I could have worked with somebody

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Speaker 1: to find out more about And it's you know, it's

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Speaker 1: possible that within that material we have more of his

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Speaker 1: inner thought process, Yeah, to know whether he really thought

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Speaker 1: he was making a miraculous discovery or whether he was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, if I make a skeleton big enough, surely

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Speaker 1: people will come to my museum. It's like the the

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Speaker 1: memes you see about master plans, where it's like one

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Speaker 1: dig bones, two build together, three profits. Yeah. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a lot like that. Yeah, blessings on you. I'm glad

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Speaker 1: that I finally decided enough time had passed to talk

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Speaker 1: about the sky, because while I'm not I'm not totally

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Speaker 1: sure my end verdict on him. Many fun things to

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Speaker 1: get to read about in terms of the things that

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Speaker 1: he wrote and things other people wrote about him interesting

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Speaker 1: to me today. There's basically another museum in the spot

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Speaker 1: where his museum was, by the Gateway arch, which I

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Speaker 1: think at one point was called the Museum of Westward Expansion.

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Speaker 1: That's not what it is anymore. It has been renamed,

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Speaker 1: and I forgot to refresh my memory on what it's

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Speaker 1: called now before coming in here to record behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: We talked about Salin this week. Finally, I had a

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Speaker 1: hard time saying many words in this episode, some of

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Speaker 1: them words that were long and had lots of letters

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Speaker 1: in them, and some of them were like about or

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Speaker 1: two or I think it's because I mean, I too

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Speaker 1: am sure that I created horrible crimes against Greek names.

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Speaker 1: But when you're trying to work those all out, then

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Speaker 1: I find, at least for me, saying other completely normal

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Speaker 1: words becomes harder because you're fatigued. Yes, my brain had

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Speaker 1: been like it was so hard with like nine syllables.

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Speaker 1: What's this next sentence? I don't even know? Right, we

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Speaker 1: didn't talk a lot in specifics about the laws that

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Speaker 1: Salm passed like. We talked about what they related to

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Speaker 1: and how he had sorted it out. And there are

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Speaker 1: entire books written that we'll examine them, but I was

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Speaker 1: going to talk about a couple of them because they're

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Speaker 1: interesting to me. In particular, I was very fascinated by

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Speaker 1: laws about family life and marriage and women. And in

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Speaker 1: one of the Plutarch translations there are some good paragraphs.

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Speaker 1: One reads quote. Solomin's laws in general about women are

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Speaker 1: his strangest. For he permitted anyone to kill an adulterer

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Speaker 1: that found him in the act, but if anyone forced

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Speaker 1: a free woman, a hundred drachmas was the fine. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why he would find this strange, except that

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Speaker 1: women were not valued at this point. This continues if

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Speaker 1: he enticed her twenty except those that sell themselves openly.

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Speaker 1: That is harlots, which we know is you know, outdated,

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Speaker 1: who go openly to those that hire them. He made

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Speaker 1: it unlawful to sell a daughter or a sister unless

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Speaker 1: being yet unmarried she was found wanton. This obviously reflects

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Speaker 1: very outdated ideas, but I was a little bit startled

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Speaker 1: that there were consequences in Solomon's laws for treating women

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Speaker 1: badly unless you know they were immoral, which is a

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Speaker 1: whole other issue, because that seemed kind of progressive for

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Speaker 1: the time. The other thing that stood out to me

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Speaker 1: was that he forbade dowries all right because and he

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Speaker 1: also had some laws about that the wife going into

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Speaker 1: a marriage had to have some things just to start

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Speaker 1: her new life, almost like a hope chest, like three

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Speaker 1: suits of clothes and some household things, and that was all.

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Speaker 1: And his logic was that he didn't want marriages contracted

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Speaker 1: for financial reasons, but for love, kind affection in the

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Speaker 1: birth of children. Okay, also a little bit interesting, somewhat progressive,

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Speaker 1: still problematic, but at a time again when you know,

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Speaker 1: many many hundreds of years ago, seemed a little surprising

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Speaker 1: to me in some good ways, obviously clouded, but those

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Speaker 1: I just thought were very very interesting. I also like

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Speaker 1: his thoughts on money. And I will read four lines

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Speaker 1: that were written by Solon and then I'll be done

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Speaker 1: with quoting things he wrote. Some wicked men are rich,

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Speaker 1: some good are poor. We will not change our virtue

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Speaker 1: for their store. Virtue is a thing that none can

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Speaker 1: take away, but money changes owners all the day. And

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Speaker 1: I kind of love that, yeah, because I'm like it

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Speaker 1: goes very much back to the creases parable of like

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Speaker 1: having money is not what makes you have a good life,

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Speaker 1: or be a good person, or have value. I find

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Speaker 1: it interesting that he was trying so hard to make

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people happy that he knew he couldn't. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I do personally like the idea that he left

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Speaker 1: Athens because he was so tired of listening to people

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Speaker 1: complain about his new laws, and he like, yany ow,

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Speaker 1: I'm getting out of here for a while. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: promised I would tell the story of the microwave experiments. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I have maybe told on this show before. I

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Speaker 1: know I've told Tracy. Yeah. When my husband and I

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Speaker 1: got married, we found ourselves with three microwaves, which is

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Speaker 1: more than any two people. Mean. I had one that

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Speaker 1: came from my apartment, he had one that he had

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Speaker 1: been using in his apartment, and he had a third

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Speaker 1: one because he inherited some stuff from aunts and uncles

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Speaker 1: that had passed. He had a lot of aunts on

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Speaker 1: his father's side that were much older than his dad,

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Speaker 1: so they a lot of them had passed by the

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Speaker 1: time we then, and it had just been sitting around

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Speaker 1: and once we were like, we have three of these things.

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Speaker 1: We do not need three of these things. I gave

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Speaker 1: one a way to a woman that I knew through

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Speaker 1: work who was starting her own new life and apartment

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Speaker 1: and you know, was young and needed stuff. So that

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Speaker 1: was great. We got rid of one and one of them,

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Speaker 1: the one that we were going to keep, you know,

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Speaker 1: was in good working condition. And then the third one

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Speaker 1: was like fine but not great, Like we would have

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Speaker 1: felt weird giving it away to someone because it wasn't

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Speaker 1: in great condition. And so, of course, us being twenty

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Speaker 1: five and twenty seven at the time, our solution was

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Speaker 1: let's blow stuff up in it. Yeah, as a sort

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Speaker 1: of scientific thing. We were like curious because we, like

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Speaker 1: everyone else, have been told don't put put metal things

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Speaker 1: in the microwave, and we were like, but what if,

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Speaker 1: you know, we put on like protective goggles and stuff,

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Speaker 1: and we put those weird things in the microwave to

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Speaker 1: see what would happen. Yeah, and like we put in

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Speaker 1: a CD, which was pretty thrilling because that spun in

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Speaker 1: the microwave and shot off sparks. We put whole uncracked

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Speaker 1: eggs in there and they exploded and that was pretty fun.

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Speaker 1: And we did put in little small metal things and

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Speaker 1: they sparked a lot. When I was a kid, the

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Speaker 1: rule was don't put metal in the microwave period, and

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Speaker 1: in more recent years I've seen more like, well, you

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Speaker 1: can put some metal in like a small amount, and

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Speaker 1: it's should not touch the sides of the microwave. Like

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Speaker 1: it just it feels like there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: rules to keep in mind if you are wanting to

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Speaker 1: use metal in the microwave. For some reason, I have

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Speaker 1: a little a little tea cup that I make things

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Speaker 1: like hot chocolate in when I want to feel fancy,

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Speaker 1: and it has a very thin line of like gilding around. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And one time, instead of heating up the milk for

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Speaker 1: the hot chocolate in a measuring cup, I put it

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Speaker 1: into the cup and I was just going to heat

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Speaker 1: it up in the cup, very dramatic sparking in the microwave,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, not doing that again. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: now it probably looks like lead that line of wave

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Speaker 1: it has chipped a little bit, But I think I

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Speaker 1: think I rescued it fast enough that the like that

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Speaker 1: did not come to real harm. Yeah, ask me how

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Speaker 1: I know that it will look like less. Yeah, my

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Speaker 1: brother and sister I gave us for Christmas a bowl

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Speaker 1: that is made to cook things in in the microwave,

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Speaker 1: and the lid has metal on it, but like the

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Speaker 1: way it is shaped like it's it's it. I haven't

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Speaker 1: actually used it in the microwave. We've used it for

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Speaker 1: a lot of other purposes, but not for its intended

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Speaker 1: purpose yet theoretically fine, So yeah, I'm sort of imagining

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Speaker 1: folks that have listened to our episode from Wednesday and

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Speaker 1: not today may have already written, well actually emails about

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Speaker 1: all the nuances of metal in the microwave and man,

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Speaker 1: it's just easier to not put the metal in there.

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Speaker 1: That is exactly it. And I would assume that's why

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Speaker 1: if you look up that Alton Brown do your Own

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Speaker 1: Bagged Popcorn recipe on any site, they have amended it

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Speaker 1: to exclude the staple part. Well, and I can imagine

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Speaker 1: if the staple does happen to throw sparks off in

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Speaker 1: the microwave, that a paper bag in it that could

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Speaker 1: lead to some dramatic results. Listen, odds maybe that it

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Speaker 1: wouldn't do that, but the one time it does. That

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Speaker 1: is one time too many in my books, don't take

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Speaker 1: needless risk for snack. I just don't need to do it.

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Speaker 1: If you want to take that risk, it's on you.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying, yeah, I usually lately, I've been doing

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Speaker 1: my popcorn in a saucepan. Yeah, and I have been

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Speaker 1: trying the method we're we're visiting how we make popcorn again.

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Speaker 1: But look, this is a big focus in my life

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Speaker 1: right now. Lately, I have been doing the thing where

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Speaker 1: you let the oil heat up with a couple of

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Speaker 1: kernels in it. Yep. Yeah, when they pop, you take

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Speaker 1: it off and you put the rest in, and you

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Speaker 1: let them sit for some amount of time. That amount

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Speaker 1: of time berries depending on who you're looking at. It

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Speaker 1: also will vary depending on your stove and the saucepan

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Speaker 1: you're using. So for me, it's like forty five seconds

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Speaker 1: is about right. For other people, they'll say a minute.

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Speaker 1: Others will say only thirty. Yeah. In any case, you'll

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Speaker 1: get a more even pop and it works. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: have so, uh, I have not done it. What I

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Speaker 1: have done is put the oil in, put one or

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Speaker 1: two kernels in. When I hear them pop, it's ready

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Speaker 1: for the other kernels to go in. I don't think

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Speaker 1: I have. Then I don't like the next step has

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Speaker 1: not been taking it off the heat immediately when I've

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Speaker 1: done it that way. Yeah, So the idea is that

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Speaker 1: they're still sitting in that hot oil for that period

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Speaker 1: of time, and all the kernels come to a pretty

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Speaker 1: even temperature, right, so that when you put it back

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Speaker 1: on direct heat, they all start popping at about the

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Speaker 1: same time, and you don't get stragglers that you're waiting

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Speaker 1: on while other ones burn. I think I misunderstood what

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Speaker 1: you were describing, because what I had heard you say

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Speaker 1: was like, have a couple of kernels in there, they pop,

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Speaker 1: put your other stuff, and then like that, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: go back on the heat after that, uh not for

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Speaker 1: forty five seconds to a minute, and then it goes back.

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Speaker 1: Then it goes back on. Okay, I see, I see

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Speaker 1: you were correct, But then it went back on after

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Speaker 1: a period of Ye I was missing a step. Yeah, Uh,

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Speaker 1: I probably didn't include it. Yeah, we're still we're still

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Speaker 1: air popping at my house. We got an email from

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Speaker 1: somebody who asked if we had mentioned air poppers when

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Speaker 1: talking about popcorn, and I'm sure we did, because that

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Speaker 1: is the way we do it at my house and

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Speaker 1: it's just so easy, and so yeah we did, uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we for sure did mention it. But like, it's just

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Speaker 1: it's so easy, so non messy, easy to then season

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Speaker 1: it with whatever I want to season it with. Unless

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Speaker 1: you have a giant R two air unless you have

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Speaker 1: an R two air popper projectiles around your house. Our

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Speaker 1: air popper does tend to spit out a couple or

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Speaker 1: three unpopped kernels as it's getting started, but they just

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Speaker 1: go into the bowl and they might bounce around the bowl,

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Speaker 1: but they're not fast enough from our air popper to

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Speaker 1: like fly around the kitchen. Yeah. Oh those things have acceleration,

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Speaker 1: they have Yeah, they're fast. Yes. And again, my husband,

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Speaker 1: who doesn't like popcorn, is always like watching me do

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Speaker 1: my magical dances and try to set up my flume

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Speaker 1: made of foils so that they will go where I

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Speaker 1: attend them, and he's always just like, why this is

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Speaker 1: so hard, don't And I'm like, but it's Archid Dow.

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Speaker 1: I'm like our behind the scenes conversation of Sol and

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Speaker 1: his pack on popcorn. Again, listen, he probably didn't know

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Speaker 1: the wonder of popcorner. He would have written about it

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Speaker 1: and made a law. I think he definitively didn't. I am,

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Speaker 1: I am fascinated by Solon, and I had debated at

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Speaker 1: one point in time overdoing like a series of the

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Speaker 1: Seven Sages. Oh sure, but I don't know why. That

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Speaker 1: seemed less appealing to me after a while, and like they,

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Speaker 1: Ley's came up a lot in our our eclipse discussion recently,

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Speaker 1: so it was like, it would be weird to do

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Speaker 1: one on him because we've covered most of that ground, right,

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Speaker 1: a lot of it, so you know, we may get

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Speaker 1: to other stages. We'll see, Yeah, but now I check

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Speaker 1: that one off. There's also just a particular unless, I

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Speaker 1: mean unless your field is, you know, the ancient Mediterranean.

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Speaker 1: There's a particular challenge that's common in a lot of

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Speaker 1: those episodes in terms of doing the research, and that

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Speaker 1: can become fatiguing after a while. It is a bit arduous, yes,

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Speaker 1: And also a lot of the things that are really

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Speaker 1: interesting that have been written about it are old enough

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Speaker 1: that you can't really get them in print now, and

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Speaker 1: also kind of obscure enough that they're not necessarily digitized,

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Speaker 1: even though they would be in public domain. And like

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Speaker 1: some of the ones that are digitized you still have

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Speaker 1: to buy access to because they're you know, part of

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Speaker 1: some library. Sure, sure, so that can also be like

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Speaker 1: a little thing. And we're working exclusively from translation of

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Speaker 1: things that were written often many years after those people lived.

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Speaker 1: So like we would have to do that big caveat

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Speaker 1: we did at the beginning of this one on Everyone's show. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're talking about it, but like, none of

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Speaker 1: this is really substantiated, right, which can be fun to

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Speaker 1: discuss if you know those guardrails, But also if we

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Speaker 1: did that all the time, it would get a little frustrating. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I hope that this weekend no one asks you to

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Speaker 1: lead any kind of military effort to retake an island,

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Speaker 1: and no one asks you to completely reorganize a city.

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Speaker 1: That sounds so stressful to me. I hope you have

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Speaker 1: a stress free weekend. If this is a time when

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Speaker 1: you actually have to work and you don't have the

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Speaker 1: sort of standardized days off that a lot of people do,

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Speaker 1: I still hope you have a great time, that nobody

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Speaker 1: overburdens you with responsibility, and that everyone is cool to you.

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Speaker 1: Everybody'd be nice to each other. It's all good. We

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Speaker 1: will be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode,

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Speaker 1: and then on Monday with something brand new. Stuff you

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Speaker 1: Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For

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Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.