1 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 2: and speaker. 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 3: and course creator. We are two working parents who love 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 3: our careers and our families. 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 2: Welcome to Best of Both Worlds. Here we talk about 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun. 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life. 11 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Best of Both Worlds. This is Laura. 12 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 2: This episode is airing in late August of twenty twenty four, 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 2: which is approximately seven years since our first episode of 14 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: Best of Both Worlds was launched. So happy seventh birthday, Sarah. 15 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: Happy seventh birthday. Now we're like in second grade. This 16 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: podcast has gone to elementary school. It's losing its teeth. Like, 17 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 2: this is all very exciting in terms of its development. Yeah, 18 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 2: we launched what was it you said? August twenty first, 19 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. Is that the official date? 20 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 3: Well, now I'm calling all my statistics into questions. So 21 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 3: I used the podcast database listen notes to search for 22 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 3: best of Both Worlds and got some possibly inaccurate data 23 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 3: about numbers of episodes, so maybe the date is wrong 24 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 3: as well, but I know it was August of twenty seventeen, So. 25 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: Yes, it was late August of twenty seventeen. 26 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: And because I remember we were getting things going while 27 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 2: I was at the beach that year, same house, same thing, 28 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 2: We repeat the cycle of life over and over again. 29 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 2: But yeah, we were launching this, and so there have 30 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 2: been we were counting. We think there are three hundred 31 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 2: and sixty nine episodes. 32 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: We could be. 33 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 2: Slightly off on this, but that means that if you 34 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: are just joining us now and you are hoping to 35 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 2: get caught up on best of both worlds, you could 36 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: listen to an episode a day for a year and 37 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 2: then be joining us roughly at the present. I guess 38 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: you would have to keep listening to ones that got 39 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 2: released every Tuesday, but yeah, every Tuesday, seven years. 40 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 3: I don't know whether I would recommend that. 41 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: Come on, Sarah, I have a little faith in our content. 42 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: I mean, you listen to Bach every day, and other 43 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 3: people could listen to an episode of this podcast every 44 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 3: single day. I mean, let us know if you try it. 45 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 3: But I'm also fine if you skip around and check 46 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 3: out maybe some of the old classics, but maybe not every 47 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 3: single one. 48 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'm sure it's interesting to hear how our 49 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: lives have changed, how we're talking about people. 50 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: Of course, when we began this. 51 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 2: Podcast, Genevieve was on her way but not yet with us, 52 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: and Henry was just a twinkle in my eye. So yeah, 53 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 2: we've grown our families at the same time this podcast 54 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: has grown and been able to watch them grow and 55 00:02:55,560 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 2: watch everything else change as well. So, Sarah, when we 56 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 2: launched this, we were told to launch with more than 57 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 2: one episode, if I remember. 58 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 3: Correctly, yes, and if you are interested in starting a podcast. 59 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 3: Apparently this is really good practice because that way, when 60 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 3: you launch, I guess your initial download numbers are better 61 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 3: than they would be if you'd only had one episode. 62 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 3: I kind of wonder about that a little bit, because 63 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 3: when you're a very brand new podcast, how great are 64 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 3: the number is going to be anyway? Right, But Laura 65 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 3: was already super famous, I was slightly famous, so we 66 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 3: were very lucky to have some listeners that did begin 67 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 3: right at the start, and so we did. 68 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: Do you want to hear the three topics? I would 69 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: love to hear the three topics? What did we decide 70 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: to launch with all. 71 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 3: Right, we launched with number one, crafting the right work 72 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 3: life balance, not vigor all topic number two, why we 73 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 3: decided to have more than two kids? Also a favorite 74 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 3: number three, the second shift evenings with your kids. See, 75 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 3: we were obsessed with the Golden Hours even. 76 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 2: Then, long before they branded as such. Yeah, now I 77 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 2: remember that we were also launching three episodes at the beginning, 78 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: shows that you're a little bit more committed to it. 79 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people, if they're wondering should 80 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 2: I listen to this, if it looks like there's more 81 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 2: than one episode, then it looks like the person has 82 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 2: thought it through a little bit. It's not a fly 83 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 2: by night sort of thing. So certainly, if you are 84 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 2: thinking of starting a podcast, launching three on your launch 85 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 2: day and then having one a week later or whatever 86 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 2: your cycle is going to be, the rhythm that you 87 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 2: released them is. 88 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: Probably a good idea. 89 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 2: But yeah, so, I mean, we've told the origin story 90 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 2: of this podcast before. But Sarah and I were reading 91 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: each other's blogs. By the way, Sarah, congratulations on twenty 92 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 2: years of blogging. 93 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 3: Twenty years of blogging. I definitely would not have expected 94 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 3: that when I set out to start my blog at 95 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 3: the age of twenty four. 96 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: When you were medical lost and all alone. Could I 97 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: say that. 98 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, was lost and all alone dot blogspot dot com 99 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 3: of course, because who would have their own who was 100 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 3: their own urlis? And I thought it was just going 101 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 3: to be like a month long project. 102 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: But apparently I started reading. 103 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 2: So Sarah made the decision to start using capital letters 104 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 2: in twenty fourteen, so ten years after launching. But I 105 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 2: started reading before the capital letters era. I know I 106 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: was reading you twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, somewhere in there, 107 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 2: I think is when it happened. 108 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 3: That's a new baby era. Is the new baby era 109 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 3: for sure as to my blog. And that's good. You 110 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:41,559 Speaker 3: missed some really wild stuff, regretable eras. 111 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 2: Not only were there no capital letters, there were regrettable 112 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: things posted on the blog. 113 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 3: I don't know, it's been a fun adventure, but yeah, 114 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 3: it's through lots and lots of milestones recently. Okay, so 115 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 3: you've been reading for a very long time, and I 116 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 3: started reading yours and I think, I mean, I think 117 00:05:58,000 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 3: I left to comment on your blog maybe once, never 118 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 3: expecting to hear back. And then when you left one online, 119 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 3: I was like Oh, she's. 120 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: A real person. How incredibly cool is that? 121 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 3: And then we started commenting as one does on each 122 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,840 Speaker 3: other's blogs, and then we decided to meet in person 123 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 3: and we had a really fun time. We didn't talk 124 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 3: about the podcast at that dinner, though, right. 125 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: No, we met in person once before that. 126 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember, because your family lives 127 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 2: here in Philadelphia, so I believe it was the summer 128 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 2: of twenty fourteen, so shortly after the Capitol letters began 129 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 2: that you came to visit your family and we went 130 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 2: for a run together. 131 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 3: Yes, and you, I think had just gotten some news 132 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 3: of your own. I don't remember if you shared it 133 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 3: during that run or not. 134 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 2: Did I I may have shared it because I was 135 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 2: pregnant with Alex. I was about three months pregnant with 136 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 2: Alex at the time, because I believe it was probably July. 137 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: That tends to be a time you come to visit here. 138 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 2: But yeah, we were running, and I guess maybe I 139 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 2: wanted to explain why I was so slow. 140 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: Maybe that was why I felt I should spit the beans. 141 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 3: You definitely hadn't announced it anywhere public, so it was 142 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 3: like a very exciting surprise. And yeah, it might have 143 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 3: been like, uh, go easy on me. 144 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 2: Be careful, it's hot, she's going fast. Sarah's always been 145 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 2: faster than me, but has been willing to run with 146 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:16,239 Speaker 2: me on occasion, which is nice. 147 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: And then in the. 148 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 2: Late spring, early summer, I want to say of twenty seventeen, 149 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 2: Sarah was also in town and we went out for 150 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 2: a fun dinner at Tallulah's Garden Secret supper Club, which 151 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: is a sort of side restaurant in their little I 152 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 2: don't know, it's hard to describe. So Tulua's Garland is 153 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: this nice restaurant downtown and they were running a set 154 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 2: menu called Secret Supper Club at a location right next door, 155 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 2: and we had dinner. 156 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: It was good, We enjoyed it, we enjoyed chatting. 157 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: And so then later in the summer, Sarah floated an idea. 158 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 3: Sometimes I that sometimes I do that, wondering if maybe 159 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 3: the universe will like throw something back at me. 160 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: And it did. It did, Laura wrote. 161 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 3: Me an email, I'm not going to read the whole thing, 162 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 3: but I'm going to quote a little piece of it. 163 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 3: We said chat, I have been thinking of doing podcasts 164 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 3: or I suppose more Facebook alive too. There may be synergies, 165 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 3: and then she wrote, you're looking to start a new 166 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 3: project going into kid number three smiling face. So yes, 167 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 3: I was looking to start a new project going into 168 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 3: kid number three. 169 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: I guess I figured, hey, i'd have maybe a little 170 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: extra time on maternity leave. Perhaps or I just felt 171 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: the pull. 172 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 3: And I'm so glad I did, because I said, yes, 173 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 3: I actually had written you something like, oh, I have 174 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 3: a couple other inquiries, but you're the best. 175 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: And we talked on the phone and made it happened. Yeah, 176 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: we did, We did. 177 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 2: And I remember I was actually on an editing retreat 178 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 2: for Off the Clock. I had a manuscript of the 179 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 2: book that became Off the Clock, and I was needing 180 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 2: to as I often do toward the end of a manuscript, 181 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 2: I really want to sit down and edit it without 182 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 2: having to stop, without having to like go pick anyone up, 183 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 2: without having to make or even eat dinner, or put 184 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 2: anyone to bed. I want to just go through it. 185 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 2: And so I had gone off to Bear Creek Mountain, 186 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 2: which is a ski resort, but it was the summer, so. 187 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 1: Stay there for a couple of days. 188 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 2: And it was while I was there that I saw 189 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 2: this posted on Sarah's blog, and so yeah, a lot 190 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 2: of things came out of that few days away. 191 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: It's good to be thinking a little bit more expansively. 192 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 2: I actually don't think that is a coincidence, because I 193 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 2: don't know would I have reached out and suggested it 194 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 2: if I was like skimming through stuff because I was 195 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 2: back at life and not doing anything else. 196 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. 197 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 2: It's an interesting question. I'm happy we did well. The 198 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 2: stars aligned and it worked as stars aligned. All right, Well, 199 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 2: let's take a quick ad break and we will be 200 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 2: back talking a little bit more about our seven year journey. 201 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: Well we are back talking all things, best of both worlds. 202 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 2: I guess this is a little navel gazing of an episode, 203 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 2: but you know, forgive us, we've been around seven years, 204 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 2: which is very old and podcasting years. I don't know, 205 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 2: like dog years. I guess like forty nine or whatever 206 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 2: the equivalent is. I mean, initially this was just a 207 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 2: fun project really, I mean for both of us. But Sarah, 208 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 2: you'd notice that there was a bit of a hole 209 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 2: in the market in terms of podcasts that we're out there. 210 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been a very long time podcast listener. I 211 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 3: think it has a lot to do with running, because 212 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 3: I discovered that music kind of got old. So like 213 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 3: I was listening to this American life on my like 214 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 3: iPod back in like I don't know, the mid Auts 215 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 3: and stuff like that, and people are like, what are 216 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 3: you doing? 217 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: And I'm like, this is so cool. 218 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 3: And podcasts started to get a little bit more popular, 219 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 3: and I started to notice that there were more sort 220 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 3: of aimed at women, but they were they all seem 221 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 3: to be stay at home moms, and they all kinda 222 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 3: I don't know. They talked about things that were interesting 223 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:08,839 Speaker 3: to me. But at the same time, I was like, ah, 224 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 3: but my lifestyle just doesn't look like this. I'm like, 225 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 3: where are all the working moms And I'm like, oh, right, 226 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 3: they're working. 227 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: They don't have time to do a podcast. 228 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 3: Yes, And so I was like, you know, I think 229 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,839 Speaker 3: I might have just enough time. I think I was 230 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 3: working point eight or point nine or something, I think 231 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 3: point eight at the time, and I was like, I 232 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 3: could probably in that little bit of time be that 233 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 3: working person and provide that needed perspective. And I think 234 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 3: when Laura reached out, I was like, well, this is 235 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 3: perfect because I have a much more structured job. She 236 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 3: has a much more like entrepreneurial, like flexible job, but 237 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 3: both of us have big jobs and so not only 238 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 3: will we cover work and parenthood, but like different kinds 239 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 3: of work. 240 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's true, there's definitely. 241 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 2: I mean, it's obviously the issue with people only have 242 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 2: so much time, and I know I've been saddened over 243 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 2: the years many of the working mom blogs that I 244 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 2: have read have kind of disappeared because people get busy, 245 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 2: and if you have a couple of kids and a 246 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 2: big job, it's always the thing that can go. 247 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: And so I mean, among the reasons, I'm. 248 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 2: Impressed that Sarah has been able to do this for 249 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 2: twenty years, but as we all know, she's very good 250 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: at planning. 251 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 3: No, and I also obviously really love it, like it's 252 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 3: it's something I'm drawn to do, rather than something I'm 253 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,839 Speaker 3: like putting on my list to get to grind out 254 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 3: or something like that, or also wouldn't be doing it. 255 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, I'm still drawn to podcasts like 256 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 3: with from this perspective, and I still don't feel like 257 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 3: there are definitely more than there were, but there still 258 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 3: aren't a ton because the truth is, like once a 259 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,719 Speaker 3: podcast is getting big and elaborate. The hosts need to 260 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 3: have a lot of time. 261 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but you know, Sarah's still seeing patients, so 262 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 2: we are legit here as she has a normal in 263 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 2: the office required to be their job. So we're always 264 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 2: trying to stay true to at least some of that perspective, 265 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 2: even as she has launched some more entrepreneurial unsures herself 266 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 2: as well. So another fun fact courtesy of my Yahoo inbox. 267 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 2: It told me the other day as I was hunting 268 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 2: for an email from Sarah that you and Sarah hart 269 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 2: Unger appeared to gather on four thousand, nine hundred and 270 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 2: sixty seven messages between February twenty twenty and July twenty 271 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 2: twenty fours. That's not even all of it by any 272 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 2: means whatsoever. There were fourteen messages from last week and 273 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 2: on average eleven point six messages per week for last 274 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 2: Year's a lot. 275 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: I know. 276 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 3: When people are like, how much time does a podcast take, 277 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,719 Speaker 3: it's like, well, not that much, but also a lot like. 278 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 2: Because well it's yeah, the focus time may not be 279 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 2: that much, but there's always the constant communication back and forth. 280 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 2: I mean, we text each other too, But again, it's 281 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 2: hard to separate out. What is that, like the split 282 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 2: between business related stuff and like you want to show 283 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: the new outfit we just got, so yeah, I. 284 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 3: Mean it's a mix yep. The text there, oh to 285 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 3: redo that ad or like my kid gotta new whatever. 286 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 3: But no, a lot and a lot of communication, that's funny. 287 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 3: I actually, yeah, that sounds about right. Five thousand in 288 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 3: the last four years, I could. 289 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 2: See sending fourteen messages away. That's like two emails a day. 290 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 2: That's not that out of line. Maybe are they all 291 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 2: for me? I don't know, no, if. 292 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: They're not. 293 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 2: So once you been your biggest surprise with doing this 294 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 2: for lo these many years, Sarah. 295 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, how many. 296 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 3: Like I ERL people I have met and how many 297 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 3: like true real life connections have happened that feel like 298 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 3: a result of this podcast, And like I saw that 299 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 3: in person when we had Best Line Plans Live, which 300 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 3: was not officially a best of Both Worlds event, but many, many, 301 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 3: many of the participants came to know me through Best 302 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 3: of Both Worlds and many were listeners, and then like 303 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 3: they started branching off and making their own friendships to 304 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 3: the point where like now some of them traveled together 305 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 3: and I'm. 306 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: Like oh my god. 307 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 3: It all started with best of both worlds, Like how 308 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 3: amazing is that? I mean some of it started with 309 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 3: Laura's books and stuff like that, but still, I think 310 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 3: just the fact that like this online thing became a 311 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 3: physical reality and his like true friendships have come from 312 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 3: it has been super super fun and a surprise. 313 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean it's been great just people we've met 314 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 2: through this, and we launched our Patreon community a few 315 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 2: years ago, which has been a lot of fun to have. 316 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 2: I mean it's not since it's a paid community. People 317 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 2: tend to be on their best, most helpful behavior, and 318 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 2: it's their real names and everything, and I think that's 319 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 2: something that's often missing in a lot of social media. 320 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 2: I know, people get at it through doing like closed 321 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: Facebook groups for instance, that you need to apply to join, 322 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 2: and that's an option as well for people to do 323 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 2: if they're looking to create something like this in their life. 324 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 2: But we've really had great discussions and a lot of 325 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 2: people sort of meeting up on their own or giving 326 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 2: each other advice or connections or anything like that. So 327 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 2: I've really appreciated seeing how that has happened, being able 328 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 2: to meet people in person when it's possible has also 329 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 2: been wonderful and Sarah has you know, I mean, you 330 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 2: listened to a ton of podcasts before doing this, but 331 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 2: you hadn't really done much interviewing people for producing content 332 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 2: before doing a podcast. 333 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. 334 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 3: I also put on my surprise list that I was 335 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 3: surprised how much I grew to enjoy interviewing other people, 336 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 3: like not just our conversational episodes, which felt pretty natural 337 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 3: from the beginning, but also interviewing people where I would 338 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 3: read the book and do a little bit of research 339 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 3: and then put together my questions and actually got like 340 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 3: a random not random, but like a compliment from someone 341 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 3: I just interviewed, where afterwards she was like, Wow, you 342 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 3: really know what you're doing. This felt so much more 343 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 3: like a conversation than a list of questions. And I 344 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 3: was like, well, I'm still feel like I'm pretending at 345 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 3: this because I don't have any like official She's like, no, 346 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 3: get over it, Like you're fine, and that's just super cool. 347 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 3: Like I didn't know that there'd be like growth personal 348 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 3: growth for me out of this venture, but I feel 349 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 3: like there has been. 350 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: We all learn new skills, which is one I mean 351 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 2: speaking into a microphone. I mean you are speaking, but 352 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 2: it's like there's things associated with it too. I think 353 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,360 Speaker 2: we also had a breakthrough when we started using recording 354 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 2: software where we can see each other. So there was 355 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 2: a point a few years in where we switched software 356 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 2: providers for that. We've always had stuff where we can 357 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 2: record a local track and then mix it together because 358 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 2: that tends to make the sound quality better. But now 359 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 2: we're using one where we can see each other, and 360 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 2: it just facilitates the conversation because I know I would 361 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 2: like start talking to you know, step On Sarah's trying 362 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 2: to say something, because we wouldn't be sure if the 363 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 2: other person was coming in. So I think that's been 364 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 2: really helpful too, given that we aren't in the same place. 365 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 3: Definitely, I think it makes it more fun too, Like 366 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 3: there's something about stereot a blank screen that's a little weird. 367 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 3: And I had an interview a while back where they're like, no, 368 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 3: we don't do video, and it really did feel odd. 369 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm really glad we can see each other. Yeah, 370 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 2: I mean even places that don't record the video. I mean, 371 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 2: because we're not recording the video, where's just that we 372 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,120 Speaker 2: want to Yeah, I definitely prefer now when I can 373 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 2: see the person who is interviewing me or that I'm 374 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 2: interviewing them as well. All right, Sarah, so let's say 375 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 2: some favorite episodes. What have been some of your favorite 376 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 2: episodes over the past three hundred and sixty nine. 377 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 3: Well, the fun Facts episode from March twenty twenty four 378 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 3: was definitely a highlight. I just had so much fun 379 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 3: doing it. And I'll say, any like Q and a 380 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 3: mail Bag where we're in the same room is just 381 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 3: extra fun, just I don't know, like there's something nice 382 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 3: to be recording together and actually being able to be 383 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 3: in the same room, read each other's body language, et cetera. 384 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 3: So I'll say, and I like Q and A's anyway, 385 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 3: it's fun to answer questions what about you? 386 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, The March twenty twenty four one was, I mean, 387 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 2: I tend to listen to most of these episodes afterwards, 388 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 2: sort of just general quality control. I want to make 389 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 2: sure that I'm listening to whatever our listeners are listening 390 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 2: to as well. But I listened to that one several 391 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 2: times because it was just so funny between the Cornflight 392 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 2: Girl theme. So we had come up with a list 393 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 2: of fun Fact getting to know You questions sitting at 394 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 2: the bar the night before and then went and recorded 395 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 2: in a hotel room in Naples, and yep, it was 396 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 2: a banner episode. So if you have not listened to 397 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 2: that one, please go back and do that. 398 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: We'll have to try to link that one so they 399 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: can find it. Sarah. Of course, I was saying, you 400 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: also love our goals episodes. 401 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 3: I do. I love doing them, I love having done them. 402 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 3: I love being able to go back and listen to 403 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 3: them after the fact and be like, what did I say? 404 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: I do that? But yeah, those are so. 405 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 3: Much fun to do, and I enjoy hearing them afterwards 406 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 3: as well. 407 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 2: So some favorite guest episodes, Sarah had a particular request 408 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 2: early on for a guest that we were able to land. 409 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: You want to talk about that one? 410 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,479 Speaker 3: Yes, I think I've never celebrated so much is when 411 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 3: you were like, we got Manouche Summarodi and I was like, yes, 412 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 3: because she it had like an NPR series that I 413 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 3: was obsessed with, and I just love her voice, and 414 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 3: I love the way she does journalism, and I just 415 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,919 Speaker 3: think she's awesome. And I think she'd come up with 416 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 3: a book that I enjoyed around that time, and so 417 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 3: having her was thrilling. And then I'm gonna cheat and 418 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 3: say I loved having my relatives on the podcast. So 419 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 3: my sister in law was episode thirty one, Josh was 420 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 3: episode eighty five, and I couldn't find the number, but 421 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 3: my sister was on in September of twenty twenty. 422 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was awesome when she was talking about your 423 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 2: niece and her. 424 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: Journey with that, which was so much fun to hear. 425 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 2: And I mean I got to see though, like Sarah 426 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 2: and her sister next to each other, which is just 427 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 2: a hilarious They're obviously not exactly like each other, but 428 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 2: they are also somewhat there's a resemblance, so let's put 429 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 2: it that way. 430 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of mannerisms in common. 431 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 2: So yeah, it was like and of course they've known 432 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 2: each other for forty years and so it's like they're 433 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 2: just immediately feeding off each other in a certain way, 434 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,719 Speaker 2: which was just hilarious. Fun fact, my husband has refused 435 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 2: to be a guest. 436 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 3: We might still win him over, but I'm not holding 437 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 3: my breath. 438 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:08,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if we're still doing this when 439 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 2: he retires. Maybe it's possible, possible. Well, some of my 440 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 2: favorite guest episodes, I mean, are the ones that people 441 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 2: that we've had on more than once. I guess there's 442 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 2: an obvious relation between that of the people we've had 443 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 2: on more than once, So we ran through that. Some 444 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 2: of the people who we've had on more than once. 445 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 2: Emily Auster has been on multiple times. kJ del Antonia 446 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 2: she has been on multiple times. Jillian Goddard also been 447 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 2: on multiple times for those who read a Hot Flash, 448 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 2: which is also part of the Emily ost Parent Data Empire. 449 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 2: And Gretchen Rubin has also been on more than once. 450 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,480 Speaker 2: So I was thinking about it. Those four people in us, Sarah, 451 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 2: that would be quite a fun dinner party. I mean, 452 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 2: can we do that? 453 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 3: I feel like we're all busy, but I would people 454 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 3: are pretty busy, but to fly out to somewhere to 455 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 3: go to that. 456 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 1: That would be I would be totally at that party. 457 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: That would be a highlight for sure. 458 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 2: So let's take one more quick ad break and then 459 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 2: we'll come back with a little bit more on highlights 460 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 2: and such of the past three hundred and sixty nine episodes. Well, 461 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 2: we are back talking all things best of both Worlds 462 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 2: and our journey over the last seven years. So one 463 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 2: of our earliest episodes is what we call the hurricane episode. So, 464 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 2: Sarah Lis, this is one of the weirdest episodes we 465 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 2: have ever put out. Would you want to describe the 466 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 2: hurricane episode, Sarah. 467 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 3: Well, we just started the podcast because we must have, 468 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 3: because that hurricane was like a month after this podcast inception, 469 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 3: and we did not know at that point the art 470 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 3: of like having extra episodes in the hopper. And there 471 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 3: was a big, big hurricane that was going to hit 472 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 3: South Florida. Well it did hit South Florida. It was 473 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 3: Hurricane Irma. I was about thirty one thirty two weeks 474 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 3: pregnant at the time, and we had two little kids, 475 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 3: and we were like, okay, not staying in Miami Beach, 476 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 3: which was fully evacuated, and so we started driving and 477 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 3: driving and driving and driving, and I was like, I 478 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 3: don't think I'm gonna be able to record, you know, 479 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 3: it's not gonna happen. So laur I was like, well, 480 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 3: we could just like get on the mic and do something. 481 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 3: So from my sister's carpet in North Carolina, where we 482 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 3: had eventually landed, we did an episode. I don't think 483 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 3: it was long. I don't think I was in the 484 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 3: mental state to do anything very much of substance, but 485 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 3: I would actually be interested in listening to that. 486 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: Probably pretty historical, and I didn't. 487 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 3: Put this in the list, but I'm sure there's some 488 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 3: weird episodes around when COVID was hitting, like I'm not 489 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 3: sure how to handle no one knew, like we didn't know, well, 490 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 3: I don't know. 491 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 2: I mean, it's hilarious because we had I mean, there's 492 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 2: always a trade off between recording ahead of time so 493 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 2: you have things ready, but then the news can come 494 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 2: back to bite you in ways that you can't run. 495 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 2: The episodes we've had and this has happened a few 496 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 2: times with different things, but COVID was an obvious one 497 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 2: where this happened because I think like our episode that 498 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 2: was for maybe the Tuesday after March thirteenth, when everything 499 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 2: truly shut down, so like that's the fourteenth, the seventeenth, 500 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 2: Like let's say March seventeenth was about getting out the 501 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 2: door in the morning, right, like getting your kids out 502 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 2: the door in the morning, which is, of course right 503 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 2: when nobody was getting their kids out the door in 504 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 2: the morning and would not be doing so for at 505 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 2: least the next two or three months. As it turned out, 506 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 2: so we had to shelf that one and. 507 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: Do some other stuff. Yeah, we didn't air it. I 508 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: don't know what we did air. I don't really want 509 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: to know. Well, at the time, we thought it was 510 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 1: so temporary. 511 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 2: I mean, I thought I believed our governor when he 512 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 2: said we're canceling school for two weeks, and then next 513 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 2: thing you know, we're out for months and months. 514 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 1: So so it. 515 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 2: Goes many things that we learned during that. But Sarah, 516 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 2: I'm very curious you listed under weirdest episodes headline here 517 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 2: on your note Laura interviews Sarah and Sarah interviews Laura. 518 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: So what were so weird about? No, I didn't go 519 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 1: back and re listen. 520 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,959 Speaker 3: I just thought the concept was kind of weird, Like, 521 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 3: I mean, they hear so much about us all the 522 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 3: time that like, what could we have possibly been like 523 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 3: delving interesting? 524 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: Again, Sarah, we need an episode here. I know how 525 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: we can get two episodes. 526 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,719 Speaker 3: It might have been a little bit like that. So sorry, 527 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,479 Speaker 3: well we won't repeat that series. 528 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I gotta say. 529 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,719 Speaker 2: I mean, the more you come up with ideas, the 530 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 2: more you come up with ideas, And I feel like, 531 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 2: even though we've been doing this for three hundred and 532 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 2: sixty nine ideas. It's easier to get ideas now than 533 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 2: it was when we had only done fifteen or twenty 534 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 2: of them. There's something about you just get in the 535 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 2: mindset of what could make an episode and go. 536 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 3: With it, and you also figure out what makes a 537 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 3: really good recurring episode and what might not or like 538 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 3: we did a series, we did like a screen Time 539 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 3: series once. But you're right, well, this us to our 540 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 3: next point, which is our retreats, and they are one 541 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 3: of my favorite parts of doing this, which is that 542 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 3: a couple times a year, Loaur and I like will 543 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 3: go somewhere and we'll record a bunch of episodes and 544 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 3: usually do a lot of planning type of stuff. And 545 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 3: I always feel like that is when we like get 546 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 3: a whole slew of ideas, like we're able to just 547 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 3: capture them, write them all down, and then we can 548 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 3: live off of that for the next six months. 549 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, or at least three months or so. 550 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 2: I mean, we've tried to do this three times a year, roughly, 551 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 2: I think two or three times a year, and which 552 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 2: on some level, as this podcast has evolved and is 553 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 2: a business now, I mean it's not that it's supporting 554 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 2: either of us or our families, but it is a business. 555 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 2: The fact that we are running a business together and 556 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 2: only see each other in person a couple times a 557 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 2: year is kind of crazy if you think about it, Like, 558 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 2: there's not that many. 559 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: Where people do that. 560 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:59,560 Speaker 2: So I mean we probably should get together more. And 561 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,360 Speaker 2: that's I recognize on me because I'm the one who 562 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 2: has the job where you can do that and get 563 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 2: on the plane more easily. So I do promise Sarah, 564 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 2: I will get myself down to Florida. 565 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 3: Well, I feel like with our retreats, but also like 566 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 3: as long as I try to capitalize on some Laura 567 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,679 Speaker 3: time when I see my family, Yes, we're able to 568 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 3: add some bonus stuff because a lot of times I'm 569 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 3: there around like Christmas. Well this year, I'm going to 570 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 3: be there for Thanksgiving. I saw you fourth of July, 571 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,360 Speaker 3: so that actually might fill in the gaps a little bit. 572 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. That was going to be now both 573 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: in the same place. It's great. 574 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, so it was well placed. That turned 575 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 2: out that I live fifteen minutes from Sarah's entire extended family, 576 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 2: but not really planned when we started this, but yeah, yeah, no, 577 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:43,959 Speaker 2: we love that. 578 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: We love our retreats. Highlights always when we find. 579 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 2: Out about a guest that we'd love to have on 580 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 2: and then the person agrees to come on. Certainly, we 581 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 2: loved Best Laid Plans Live when I was able to 582 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 2: hang out with a lot of people were there for 583 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 2: Sarah's podcast, but also tended to listen to best of 584 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 2: both worlds. And we also love getting emails from listeners. 585 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 2: I mean, certainly if somebody's found a useful tip in 586 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 2: the podcast and has been able to use that in 587 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 2: their life, that's always like we feel like we've gotten 588 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 2: a little gold star, like. 589 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 1: Woo was all about that. They're really helpful because I'm 590 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:23,400 Speaker 1: not gonna lie. 591 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 3: Sometimes we'll get a negative email that's a little random, 592 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 3: like I don't know, like you don't have to say them. Well, 593 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 3: there's really comment but don no, no, this is fine. 594 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 3: There's one I think I shared this, but like there's 595 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 3: a comment on our ratings thing that says like you 596 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 3: let your kids play in a trampoline park, and I'm like, 597 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 3: you knows. 598 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: In fact, I might get. 599 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 3: An email like that and feel like, oh my god, 600 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 3: this person hates me. Everyone hates me, So it's really 601 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 3: nice sometimes to get those emails that are, like, this 602 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 3: podcast is really fun and like, you know, maybe I 603 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 3: didn't find immense value in every word that was spoken, 604 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 3: but maybe I got something good out of it, or 605 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 3: it just made me smile today, and like hearing that 606 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 3: is so wonderful. So thank you to anyone who has 607 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 3: ever sent a positive email. Feel free to send more. 608 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can tell us you were listening to this 609 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 2: podcast in the car on the way to the trampoline park, 610 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 2: and we will be right there with you, celebrating the 611 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 2: existence of said parks. For Rainy Stormy Snowy said days. 612 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 2: All right, best of both worlds. 613 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: Future. 614 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 2: People sometimes ask us about this, I don't have any 615 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 2: concrete plans, maybe, Sarah us. 616 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 3: I don't know, no concrete plans. It's fun. We still 617 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 3: have lots of ideas. We know our kids are getting older, 618 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 3: but I mean lots of people have older kids too, 619 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 3: so I'm not like super feeling panicky about that. I 620 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 3: feel like there's still a lot of opportunity to search 621 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 3: for the best of both worlds when you have school 622 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 3: age kids, tweens, teens, and I don't think I've totally 623 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 3: forgotten those baby and toather years yet so hopefully we 624 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 3: can still share valuable perspectives there as well. 625 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 2: And that's something we might try to round out with 626 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 2: guests and things like that to people focused a little 627 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 2: bit more on the early years as Sarah and I 628 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 2: age out of that. So if you are just coming 629 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 2: to us, as often happened somebody's bit our podcast has 630 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 2: been recommended to someone as they are coming back from 631 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 2: maternity leave, for instance, don't worry. We will have plenty 632 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,719 Speaker 2: of young kid related podcasting content for the foreseeable future 633 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 2: because we know that that is relevant and useful to 634 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 2: a lot of our listeners. And of course, as people 635 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 2: come along with us in the journey and their kids 636 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 2: are now seven years older than when they started it, 637 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 2: we will have content for older kids as well. 638 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 3: All right, well, we have one more segment of today's episode, well, 639 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 3: in addition to our Q and a segment Laura, go ahead, 640 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 3: go ahead, just go yeah. 641 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 2: I first called this my rant, but I'm not going 642 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 2: to rant. 643 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: I'm not going to rant. You know. 644 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 2: It's more the why behind this podcast, and Sarah mentioned 645 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 2: some of it of like they're not being anything out 646 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 2: there for people who were working moms, but particularly those 647 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 2: in more traditional all jobs who were still needing to 648 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 2: commute to an office and do things at certain times 649 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 2: that they didn't always have complete control over. And we're 650 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 2: trying to build the best of both worlds with a 651 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 2: big career and a big family. 652 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 1: Even with that in mind, and so of course we 653 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: wanted to do that. 654 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 2: But as our podcast has evolved and I've thought about 655 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 2: it a lot, I mean a big part of the why, 656 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,040 Speaker 2: we just really have a different perspective than you'd get 657 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 2: from a lot of different places. 658 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: I Mean, we. 659 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 2: Were both really really into kids, Like we love kids, 660 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 2: we love raising them. We're raising a ton of them. 661 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 2: I mean, we love family life. We love being very 662 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 2: intentional about it, creating a happy home, thinking about like, ooh, 663 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 2: how can we have a summer where you know, the 664 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 2: kids are having adventures and we're having adventures with them 665 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 2: and doing all these cool things like how can we 666 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 2: make great family travel, you know? Or are the kids 667 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 2: doing the right mix of activities, like how can we 668 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 2: have a great family meeting so everything's organized. We'd spent 669 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 2: a ton of time I'm thinking about this, and we 670 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 2: also spend a ton of time thinking about our jobs, 671 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 2: Like we are really into building our careers and you know, 672 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 2: I mean, obviously I'm more on the entrepreneurial side, but 673 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 2: Sarah and many of our listeners have more traditional jobs, 674 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 2: and there is plenty of space for both. There's plenty 675 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 2: of space to be in love with your career and 676 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 2: all that you can do for the universe with your 677 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 2: talents that you've been given, and all the wonderful things 678 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 2: you can do with your family. That there is zero 679 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 2: contradiction between these two things. And I think this puts 680 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 2: us at odds with a lot of other messaging and 681 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 2: messaging from all over the map. I mean, this is 682 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 2: not political, but it comes from every side that in 683 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 2: every perspective you could think of. I mean there's definitely 684 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 2: some anti family, anti kids stuff out there. I mean 685 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 2: jobs that are unnecessarily inflexible, or think of all the 686 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 2: jobs you can work from home now that you couldn't 687 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 2: before COVID, Like what you have to fight to work 688 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 2: from home on Friday. There was zero reason for that 689 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 2: other than the people. 690 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: Weren't doing it. 691 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 2: We're like, oh, I need to see my people here 692 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 2: to know they're working. Like it's just ridiculous. I mean 693 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 2: this was anti family in a way. It just didn't 694 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 2: have to be. We both found, of course, that many 695 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 2: things are not set up for bigger families either, Like 696 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 2: a lot of the world assumes that you only have two, 697 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 2: and you know that's how it's going to be. 698 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: So we've got that pushing that way. 699 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 2: But unfortunately, a lot of the people who sort of 700 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 2: build themselves as pro family or pro bigger family are 701 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 2: kind of spouting a lot of old fashioned patriarchal nonsense 702 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 2: about how a good mother prioritizes motherhood over career, as 703 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 2: if the two cannot be done at the same time, 704 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 2: as if we cannot walk and choose gum chew gum. 705 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 2: There's like message, what's that, Yeah, we can choose love 706 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 2: that My message is that like childcare is bad and 707 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 2: so somehow you are failing if you use childcare, which 708 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 2: the result, given that the vast majority of mothers do 709 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 2: work for pay and many of them do not have 710 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 2: partners who are home with their kids full time, I 711 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 2: mean that childcare is part of it. And then people 712 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,720 Speaker 2: feel bad about something that's a reality and for no reason. 713 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 2: So then people are doing silly things like trying to 714 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 2: wake up to work at four am so that they 715 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 2: can minimize their use of childcare because childcare. 716 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: Is bad and it's not. 717 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 2: It's not I mean, you know, or the softer versions 718 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 2: of like oh everyone knows you can't do this or 719 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 2: or whatever. 720 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 3: I just I feel like it's the softer stuff that 721 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 3: sometimes stings more because it sort of sounds reasonable, but 722 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 3: then there's like a layer under it that's like, well, 723 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 3: you're just saying like that what I'm doing is like 724 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 3: the lesser option or something like that, or yes, all 725 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 3: these like you can't have this and this. It's like, well, 726 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 3: maybe I can have my version of this in this 727 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 3: and I'm enjoying it, and now you're making me feel 728 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 3: weird about it, Like yeah, yeah, I think I love 729 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 3: that you called this out, and I love that we 730 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 3: have this podcast to kind of show that a lot 731 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 3: of it isn't true. 732 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is not true. 733 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 2: You can have an absolutely wonderful, happy home life with 734 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 2: a big family if that's what you want, and have 735 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 2: a big career and be totally kicking butt in that 736 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 2: and achieving your ambitions. And if people tell you that's 737 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 2: not possible, that's because maybe they don't think it's possible 738 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 2: for them. That that has absolutely nothing to do with you. 739 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 2: So this podcast is here cheering you on and has 740 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 2: been doing so for seven years, and we hope to 741 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 2: continue to do so for at least the next little bit, 742 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 2: and we hope you will. 743 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 1: Stay with us. 744 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 2: We're glad you are long for the journey, and thank you, 745 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 2: Thank you for being thank you journey, Thank you for that. 746 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 2: All right, So we always do a question, so we 747 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 2: will get to that. I will summarize this one. This 748 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 2: person has a couple different jobs she's choosing out. She's 749 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,439 Speaker 2: been freelancing for many years, but has reached the point 750 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 2: in her life where she would really like healthcare benefits, 751 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 2: so she is looking to go back into the more 752 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 2: traditional workforce. Is one should I choose a job primarily 753 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 2: based on flexibility. 754 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,720 Speaker 1: She's looking between two different jobs. 755 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 2: The first job she loves the position, loves the department, 756 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 2: loves the benefits, thinks it is a little bit more 757 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 2: of a as she puts it, butts in the seat position. 758 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 2: They say the hours are eight to four thirty. It 759 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 2: could be shifted slightly so, for instance nine to five thirty, 760 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,240 Speaker 2: but not much beyond that. They do offer generous vacation, 761 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 2: personal days six days, and after ninety days she can 762 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 2: work remote one day a week, so these people are 763 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 2: perhaps stuck in twenty nineteen, but whatever, and then a 764 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 2: second job is way way more flexible, but she is 765 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 2: a little bit less excited about it. It doesn't seem 766 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 2: to be quite as good a match, but she is 767 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,400 Speaker 2: pretty sure she will be able to set whatever hours 768 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 2: she wants work from home whenever she wants. So she says, 769 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 2: I think I would prefer the first job, but I 770 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:50,919 Speaker 2: also think it would annoy me to have to ask 771 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,919 Speaker 2: for a half personal day for say a thirty minute 772 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 2: vacation Bible school show for a kid, or a kid 773 00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 2: event at four pm, when in theory I could have 774 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 2: just worked from home that day and shifted my hours somewhat. So, 775 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,399 Speaker 2: she says, should I choose a job primarily based on flexibility? Sarah, 776 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:07,959 Speaker 2: what do you think? 777 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 1: Yeah? 778 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 3: Reading this, I mean, first of all you have to 779 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 3: wonder about, like, is what is being offered on paper 780 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 3: like actually reality? Because maybe the reality is that you 781 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 3: could adjust your You know, they don't want to say 782 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 3: you can adjust your hours, but if you really just 783 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 3: needed to leave thirty minutes early, you could just like 784 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 3: work through lunch, especially again, once they've gotten to know 785 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 3: you as an employee, and what your contributions are and 786 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 3: how reliable you are, and that you get your stuff done. 787 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 3: I just wonder if maybe things are not as strict 788 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 3: as it sounds. Plus the amount of personal vacation time 789 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 3: is true, like, Okay, maybe it would be annoying to 790 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 3: ask for that flexibility for that, but maybe you could 791 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 3: see it as like, well, I have plenty of personal days. 792 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 3: Let me take half a day, get a massage, and 793 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 3: then go to the vacation Bible show, Like it might 794 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,120 Speaker 3: not be like the worst thing ever. So if I 795 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 3: think that one excites you more, I think I would 796 00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 3: go for it, and then you can always try for 797 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 3: If it doesn't work out, then like you could. 798 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: Go for the other. 799 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 3: But I feel like, but the other you're always going 800 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 3: to regret, Like I should have gone with that first one. 801 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 3: The culture fit me so well and I was so 802 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 3: excited about it, and I didn't know if it would work, 803 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 3: but like, maybe it would work. It doesn't sound totally crazy. 804 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I tend to say you can't like 805 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 2: live on balance alone, like you have to like the 806 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,879 Speaker 2: substance of your job. And so if you are legitimately 807 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 2: more excited about job number one than job number two, 808 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 2: then it is on you to then negotiate to get 809 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,879 Speaker 2: the equivalent conditions to job number two. At job number one. 810 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 2: I mean, things are very, very rarely totally set in stone. 811 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 2: And if job number one lets people work remotely one 812 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 2: day a week after ninety days, then they are not 813 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 2: zero flexibility, which means it's all just on a scale 814 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 2: of what you are going to be able to negotiate. 815 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 2: So when you are offered officially job number one, be like, 816 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,799 Speaker 2: I am so excited about this job. 817 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,000 Speaker 1: I really want to do it. 818 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 2: I need to have a conversation with you because I 819 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 2: have an offer from this other place that lets you 820 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 2: work from home wherever and set your hours. And I 821 00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 2: understand maybe the culture is a little bit differently here, 822 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 2: but I want to know that I'm going to be 823 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 2: able to do and then list whatever your conditions are x, 824 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 2: Y or Z, and I'm pretty sure if that manager 825 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 2: really wants you, they'll be like, yeah, well we don't 826 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 2: officially do that, but you know you're working with me. 827 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 2: I'm not going to report you for not being here, 828 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,279 Speaker 2: and you'll be able to make it work. I mean, 829 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 2: if you're going back into the normal working world, I 830 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 2: think you want to make it worth it for you, 831 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 2: like you want a job that you are actually excited about. 832 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you get a really really rigid or 833 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,320 Speaker 3: off response that I guess that tells you something about 834 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,280 Speaker 3: the company and maybe you would rethink things. 835 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: Then go with job number two because you have that. 836 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 2: So then you've learned something about job number one that 837 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,759 Speaker 2: probably it isn't quite as exciting to you as it 838 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 2: might have been. So love of the week, I mean, 839 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,439 Speaker 2: what can we say this podcast of course and. 840 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 3: Our listeners and our listeners, we love that you guys 841 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 3: tune in and we love doing it. Hope to keep 842 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 3: it up and be back in year eight with another report. 843 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 2: Yes exactly, well, as we always say, we will be 844 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 2: back next week starting our eighth year of this with 845 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 2: more on making work and life fit together. 846 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. 847 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,320 Speaker 3: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com 848 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 3: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you. 849 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 1: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This 850 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. 851 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 2: Please join us next time for more on making work 852 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:34,240 Speaker 2: and life work together.