1 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Securing America with me, Frank Afney, the program 2 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: that's a kind of owner's manual for protecting the country 3 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: we love against all enemies, foreign and domestic, to the 4 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: glory of God and his Kingdom. We have a very 5 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: special program in store for you today with a very 6 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: special guest. His name is Robert Charles. He has been 7 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: many things in his distinguished career. Naval intelligence officer, congressional 8 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: counsel for the Reagan and George H. W. Bush White Houses, 9 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: Senior investigator and oversight staff member for the United States Congress, 10 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: a clerk in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, and, 11 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: most importantly of late, a well an Assistent Secretary of 12 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: State for Narcotics and law enforcement affairs in the George W. 13 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: Bush administration. He is these days a spokesman for a 14 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: terrific organization of which I'm proud to be a member, 15 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: the Association for Mature American Citizens. And last, but hardly least, 16 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: he is a candidate for governor in the Republican primary 17 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: in his native state of Maine. He's also the author 18 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: of a terrific book about courage, kindness, and character called 19 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: Cherish America. Bestseller I strongly commended to you, Robert Charles, 20 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: thank you for giving us a full hour of your time. 21 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: I am so pleased that we'll have a chance to 22 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: drill down on a number of things that are mutual 23 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: interest and great concern and importance. I think to have 24 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: not just made but the nation as a whole. 25 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: Frank, I always feel proved that you call me to 26 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: talk about these things. So we're good to go. 27 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: Excellent. Let me start by picking up on something we 28 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 1: did with you last week. You've talked on this program 29 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: with us about it for quite some time now. I 30 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: know it's a very great concern to you and the 31 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: people of Maine, namely what is happening with these so 32 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: called marijuana growhouses that are scattered all over rural Maine. Now, 33 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 1: there was a very important interview that Tucker Carlson did 34 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: with Steve Robertson, one of your, I guess, most outstanding 35 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: journalists in the state, I think a friend of yours 36 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: as well, on this subject. It was surely mind blowing. 37 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: We couldn't get Steve on in the webinar that we 38 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: did at the Committee on the Present Danger China last week, 39 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: but we did a dramatic reading of the comments he 40 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: made to Tucker and had you and several others to 41 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: discuss the wars of this issue. I'd like to reprise 42 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: it if we could here, though people can go to 43 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,399 Speaker 1: a Present Danger China dot org to see the full thing. 44 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: But it's such concern on so many different levels, including 45 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: that the harm that's physically being done in places like 46 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,399 Speaker 1: may not exclusively other states too, but also to the society. 47 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: Talk us through your sense on all of that, if 48 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: you would, Robbie. 49 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, Frank, So first, thank you for shining the light 50 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 2: on that issue. Steve Robinson is spectacular. Tucker did a 51 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: great job putting out in front of people what is 52 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: really going on. This state is under siege, Frank. It's 53 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: hard to it's hard to fully describe how a beautiful 54 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: state we think of it is filled with lobster and 55 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 2: moose and good hearted people, and it is that, but 56 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: it is also a state that is under siege from 57 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 2: drug traffickers and the Chinese are a big part of that, 58 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: and the Chinese growhouses are a huge part of that. 59 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: So as you aptly described and in your program earlier described, 60 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: we have about three hundred of these Chinese growhouses and 61 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 2: what are They are basically a giant fake. They come in, 62 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 2: they look at first like they're a regular house. They 63 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: try to present themselves as people who are part of 64 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 2: the community. They actually have a duo, a duo of 65 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 2: people that walk around and try to introduce themselves and 66 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 2: make it look like a normal house. And then they 67 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 2: fill it up with illegal aliens, all Chinese, most of 68 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,559 Speaker 2: whom who cannot speak English, and then they produce in 69 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 2: industrial strength levels, enormous quantities of illegal marijuana, which they 70 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: then in turn often sprinkled with fentanyl. It is killing 71 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 2: people all over the state. They try to switch it 72 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 2: off for the cannabis that they've already also legalized in 73 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 2: the state. But the biggest piece of this is that 74 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 2: you have lots and lots of young male Chinese workers 75 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: illegal here who are producing a narcotic distributing it not 76 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 2: only in Maine, and not only dumping these yards full 77 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: of toxins. And when it's all done, the house itself 78 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 2: is so filled with the mold and the chemicals that 79 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 2: they've used in this process that it is unusable again. 80 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 2: But they I say industrial strength, they've become industrial in 81 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 2: the way they do this. Frank they come in, they 82 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 2: open one of these growhouses, They grow mass quantities for 83 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: a short period of time of illegal drugs, They distribute it, 84 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 2: they export it from Maine. They under the guise of 85 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:28,799 Speaker 2: the legal regime that's here, they allow this. Basically, they 86 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 2: create this enormous quantity of illegal marijuana and then in 87 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: turn they redistributed around the state and unfortunately all the 88 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: way up to and including legislators in our state legislature, 89 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 2: we have parents who have lost their kids, often to fentanyl, 90 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 2: often to things that are mixed drugs, and in particular 91 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 2: where you have this marijuana that gets laced with fentanyl. 92 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 2: So what's happened? And I want to back the aperture 93 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: of this out or widen the aperture briefly of the conversation. 94 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: These three hundred drug house are emblematic there. Of course, 95 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 2: you know, they have put Maine in an enormous state 96 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: of peril personally because they've got all these communities that 97 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 2: have been just run rough shot over. Nobody can do anything. 98 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: Janet Mills isn't doing anything, The Attorney General isn't doing anything. 99 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 2: When they do come in and try to close down 100 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: one of these houses, it immediately pops up somewhere else where. 101 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 2: It's gone for a few days, and then that comes 102 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 2: back again, and you know, it's like a bad penny, 103 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 2: only it's a horrifying thing because it's taking down the 104 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 2: civic structure in the state. What is it also doing. 105 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 2: It's creating a chain of dollars that go not only 106 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 2: back to CCP, but they go to help fund the 107 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 2: fentanyl side of all this. China, as many people know, 108 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: is a producer both of the precursors and of fentanyl itself. 109 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 2: Ventanyl in this state, I would say, is the primary. 110 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 2: Now we've learned some new things in recent days, but 111 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 2: we have a lot of meth in this state. We 112 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 2: have a lot of heroin, and a lot of crack cocaine, 113 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 2: and we even have odd drugs that people don't even 114 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: know of out like trank. And we just found car 115 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 2: fentanyl in this states this week. Car fentanyl is one 116 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 2: hundred times more pure than fentanyl. You touch it, you 117 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 2: get sick. You find it somewhere and accidentally bump into it, 118 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 2: you will get it'll affect you. So what's happened is 119 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 2: when you look away from a problem, you look away 120 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 2: from the beginning of a forest fire, the forest fire 121 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 2: will spread. And in many ways it's the right analogy 122 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 2: here because we have a state where the Democrats have 123 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,080 Speaker 2: literally encouraged things like getting rid of mandatory minimum sentences, 124 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,679 Speaker 2: getting rid of bail, trying to give illegal aliens the vote. 125 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: They've brought in already about eight thousand illegal aliens. They 126 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 2: want seventy five thousand here. Many of them are tied 127 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: up in gangs. Many of them are all involved in 128 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 2: the criminal activities that are here. And so we have 129 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: the primary I would say, the one that gets the 130 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 2: most attention is these Chinese drug traffickers, but you also 131 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 2: have the Dominican drug traffickers, we call them. Well, the 132 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 2: biggest group that's here is the Trinitarios. We have offshoots 133 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 2: that are Dominican from the Trenitarios. We have the pieces 134 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 2: or arms of the Sinaloa Cartel, the Mexican cartel we 135 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 2: just found up here, elements of MS thirteen, as well 136 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 2: as trend to Agua, which are both El Salvadoran and 137 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 2: Venezuelan traffickers. And the bottom line is, frank, they are 138 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 2: trying to divide this state up like a game board, 139 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 2: and it is overpowering sheriffs they don't have enough firepower 140 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 2: to deal with it. The state police have been underfunded 141 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 2: and demoralized. I talk with state police, I talk with 142 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 2: the DEA weekly. I talk with the sheriffs, and they're 143 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 2: all demoralized. They can't get they cannot get hires. They 144 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 2: the recruiting and retention are down. Why because this governor, 145 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:43,599 Speaker 2: a Democrat Mills, and this legislature, a Democrat dominated legislature 146 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: which it also controls the constitutional officers, has completely looked 147 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,559 Speaker 2: away from this problem. And you begin to wonder whether 148 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: they just want needles distributed to create dependents and they 149 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 2: want to create this kind of lawless society here, or 150 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: if it's just an accident. I'll tell you, Frank, what 151 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 2: many many manors and I see this as a gubernatorial 152 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 2: candidate every day. What they see is tragedy and travesty 153 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 2: around them. I go to events, whether it's in bangor 154 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 2: or way up north in Holton, or and I get 155 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 2: approached by parents, Frank, on a regular basis, who say 156 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 2: thank you for speaking up on this, thank you for 157 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 2: being prepared to turn the entire thing around. And I will, 158 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 2: as a former, as a guy that brought down drug 159 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 2: traffickers all over the world. I will bring them down here. 160 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 2: But the saddest thing they say to me, and I 161 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 2: get it at least once a week, is that people 162 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 2: are losing their children. 163 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Bobby, hold that thought. We're going to come 164 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: back to it further, drill down on the impact on 165 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: a society of this kind of drug operation, whether it's 166 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: the Chinese triads or any of the other cartels, or 167 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: the government at least turning a blind eye to it all. 168 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with Robert Charles stage Welcome back 169 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: in a very special welcome to our guest for this 170 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: full hour, the honorable Robert Charles. And I mean that 171 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: in every sense of the word. The man we have 172 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: turned to frequently for insights about national policy writ large. 173 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: But as it happens, some of those policies are very 174 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: much in mind and his native state of Maine, where 175 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: he is at the moment at candidate for Republican nomination 176 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: for governor next year. Bobby Charles, welcome back. Let me 177 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: start sort of where we left off, is talking about 178 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: the impact on a society like that of Maine, or 179 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: that of America for that matter, of the sort of 180 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: lawlessness that you're describing that is enabled by the legalization 181 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: of marijuana and the government apparently turning a blind eye 182 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: to the illegal activities of these Chinese drug gangs and others. 183 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 2: You know, Frank, I talk a lot about the impact 184 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 2: of the Chinese drug traffickers, the Dominicans, the Mexicans here 185 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 2: in the state of Maine, but in many ways the 186 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 2: fault lies at the feet of the Democrat dominated legislature 187 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 2: and governorship. They've controlled this state for thirty of the 188 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,720 Speaker 2: last thirty two years. And what does that mean. It 189 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 2: means that they have gradually ceded or created a culture 190 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 2: of lawlessness here. What do I mean. I mean an 191 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 2: audit that, for example, turned up two point one billion 192 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 2: dollars in monies that were questionable in the sense that 193 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 2: they were sole source contracts given to their friends and family. 194 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 2: You have lawless drug traffickers all over this state. You 195 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: have a bill that they put on the governor's desk 196 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 2: three weeks ago to make Maine sanctuary state. All of 197 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 2: these things are related to each other, Frank. When you 198 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,439 Speaker 2: have drug traffickers running wild, when you have ten thousand 199 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 2: overdoses in a state in one year, when you have 200 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 2: the police unable to find recruits, unable to retain people 201 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 2: because the governor has so diminished them since twenty twenty, 202 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 2: has put them in a position of being the bad guys, 203 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: not the good guys. When you have the bad guys celebrated, 204 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 2: as in the governor's own family tied to selling some 205 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 2: of these homes to these Chinese drug trafficking organizations, when 206 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 2: you have a legislature that continues to pass legislation or 207 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 2: consider legislation that would eliminate mandatory minimum sentences. I wrote 208 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 2: the constitutional defense of mandatory minimums at the federal level 209 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 2: many years ago. Bottom line, in this state, they're trying 210 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: to get rid of it, get rid of bail, open 211 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 2: the door to illegal aliens voting. It is if there 212 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 2: were a manual on how to create a culture of 213 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 2: lawlessness where you teach the young people that drug addiction 214 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 2: will basically be addressed with more need in narcan, that 215 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,719 Speaker 2: treatment actually isn't real. They've only got three hundred and 216 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 2: fifteen beds in a state for one point four million people. 217 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 2: When you teach them, in effect, that law enforcement gets 218 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 2: punished when they turn around and either to cooperate with 219 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 2: other law enforcement or they try to get the drug 220 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 2: traffickers out of the state. You are teaching lawlessness. And 221 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 2: I will tell you Maine is under siege right now. 222 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 2: I use this word not lightly. We are in peril, 223 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 2: frank and it is indicative of what both these drug 224 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 2: traffickers and what I guess I will say some of 225 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 2: these blue state Democrats want to do the whole country. 226 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 2: So I look at Maine in some ways as being 227 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 2: I guess for a small rural state, the Canaryan the 228 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 2: coal mine. We are the state that if we do 229 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 2: not turn this around, and we do not stop it, 230 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 2: it will devastate us, but it will become part of 231 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 2: the infection that is devastating the country. We do not 232 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 2: want Maine to become downtown Philadelphia, Chicago, or California. We 233 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: want Maine to be Maine, wholesome, full and rockwell, safe 234 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 2: and affordable, and frankly, the Democrats have driven this state 235 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 2: deep into the ground. 236 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 1: A lot of people are I guess cultivating, but particularly 237 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,199 Speaker 1: the Chinese you know, gangs. 238 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 2: So let me speak to both the medical side of 239 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 2: that and the legal side of that. Let me note 240 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 2: that these Chinese traffickers in their hydroponic you know, high 241 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 2: intensity if you looked at these houses. They have massive lighting, 242 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 2: they have incredible electricity draws. They basically are creating the 243 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 2: most potent version of this that you can possibly promote, 244 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 2: and by the way, sprinkling it with fentanyl, which often 245 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 2: kills people. So in a one off so and I sadly, Frank, 246 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 2: I meet with these families. I know, I know many 247 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 2: of these families. So at the end of the day, 248 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 2: you've got the illegal side of this, but one of 249 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 2: the problems you've got at the national level right now. 250 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 2: So let me speak to both the medical side of 251 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 2: that and the legal side of that. Let me note 252 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 2: that these Chinese traffickers in their hydroponic you know, high intensity. 253 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 2: If you looked at these houses, they have massive lighting, 254 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 2: they have incredible electricity draws. They basically are creating the 255 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 2: most potent version of this that you can possibly promote, 256 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 2: and by the way, sprinkling it with fentanyl, which often 257 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 2: kills people. So in a one off so and I sadly, Frank, 258 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 2: I meet with these families. I know many of these families. 259 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 2: So at the end of the day, you've got the 260 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 2: illegal side of this, but one of the problems you've 261 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 2: got at the national level right now, is that the 262 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 2: Federal DEA has marijuana, which is essentially tetrahydrochloride. It is 263 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 2: it is a narcotic. It is an official narcotic. It 264 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 2: is identified as a schedule on Substance Main and a 265 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 2: number of other states for largely medical reasons but largely unregulated, 266 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 2: have put that out there on the market. Now, there 267 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 2: are about four hundred analogesics and they are available to people. 268 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 2: And marijuana, the THHC component of marijuana does operate that way, 269 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 2: but when you don't regulate it properly, you end up 270 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 2: with just the same way that by the way fentanyl 271 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 2: is used. It is a dangerous drug. It is used 272 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 2: in medical environments, but when you allow free and open 273 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 2: distribution of thchc, it is a massive problem. And now 274 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 2: what is thhc? Tetrahydrochloride is a narcotic unlike alcohol. So 275 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: I'm not in favor of people going out and getting drunk, 276 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: but alcohol vanishes from your body within forty eight hours 277 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: because it's a water soluble influencer of brain activity. THHC 278 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 2: is actually fat soluble influencer of brain activity. And so 279 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 2: thirty days after someone has used marijuana, it's already in 280 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 2: their system and it's going to stay. It stays in 281 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 2: their system even thirty days later. Does that cause medical benefits? 282 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 2: It could, But does it cause the potential for massive 283 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 2: misjudgment if you don't recognize that same that someone operating 284 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 2: a vehicle under the influence of anything is going to 285 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 2: be a problem. So I guess I come at it 286 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 2: this way. We have to attack what's in our midst 287 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,719 Speaker 2: at the moment. Right now, we have Chinese drug traffickers, 288 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 2: Mexican drug traffickers, Dominican drug traffickers in Maine. Right now, 289 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 2: we not only have MS elements of MS thirteen and 290 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 2: trind to Ogua and extremely dangerous group from Venezuela, but 291 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 2: we also have the Crypts, the Bloods. We've apprehended members 292 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 2: of the gangster Disciples, We've accessed other Latin kings, a 293 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 2: lot of these gangs. Why. The reason is that there 294 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 2: is a lawlessness which has been promoted in the state. 295 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 2: You've diminished the value of police. You don't regulate these 296 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 2: Chinese people. You're in a situation in which illegal aliens 297 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 2: are everywhere. They're they're eating up the tax dollars of 298 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: the state. You have a state that is probably the 299 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 2: most mismanaged state, at least in New England, if not 300 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 2: the entire country, because there is no oversight, So no 301 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 2: oversight that gives you an ability to get rid of 302 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 2: the drug traffickers, no oversight on the governor, no oversight 303 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 2: on the legislature, and you've got crazy things like a 304 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 2: legislature telling the utilities that they can't compete that in 305 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 2: fact they have to follow their guidance in terms of 306 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 2: massive subsidies for solar and for wind. What I'm using 307 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 2: those as examples of frank is a government that is 308 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 2: out of control and we're a very small state and 309 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 2: unfortunately a very small number of people can have a 310 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 2: very negative. 311 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: Impact, or the society that requires the rule of law 312 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: and the enforcement of the laws with blind justice. Speaking 313 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: of which, I want to turn in our next block 314 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: with you to a matter of well treason we're told 315 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 1: at the highest levels of the United States government and 316 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: what we know about the case that is at the 317 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: core of that, as well as what is likely to 318 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: come of a now strike force that has been established 319 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: for the purposes of pursuing with a special prosecutor an 320 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: conspiracy to create a coup against Donald Trump. In his 321 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: first term. Be right back with Barbara Charles on that 322 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: much more. Stay tuned place. 323 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 2: It's very good. 324 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: This is good to a matter of well treason we're 325 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 1: told at the highest levels of the United States government, 326 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: and what we know about the case that is at 327 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: the core of that, as well as what is likely 328 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: to come of a now strike force that has been 329 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: established for the purposes of pursuing with a special prosecutor, 330 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 1: can conspiracy to create a coup against Donald Trump in 331 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: his first term. Be right back with Barbaric Charles on 332 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: that much more. Stay tuned. Please welcome back. Robert Charles 333 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,120 Speaker 1: is in the house. We are talking next about the 334 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:34,479 Speaker 1: allegations that have been advanced by Tulsi Gabbert, the Director 335 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: of National Intelligence now presented as a criminal referral to 336 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice, which has just recently, I believe, 337 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: set the stage for a special prosecutor's appointment and established 338 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: a strike force as they call it, to provide the 339 00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: investigative tools to enable a prosecution that the President of 340 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: the United States currently Donald J. Trump, believes, as does 341 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: Telsea Gabbart, must include one of his predecessors, Brooke, who's 342 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: in Obama Robbie, I know from your experience in the 343 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: federal court system as well as on Capitol Hill as 344 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: a senior investigator in the House of Representatives, you have 345 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: been tracking some of these issues going back at least 346 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: to twenty sixteen. Tell us where you are on the 347 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 1: evidence that has now been presented and the importance of 348 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,400 Speaker 1: the kind of investigation that now seems in prospect. 349 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 2: I'll tell you, Frank, I think this is arguably one 350 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 2: of the most, if not the most significant investigation of 351 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 2: a conspiracy at the federal level in the history of 352 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 2: the country. If you go back in time prior to 353 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 2: the Civil War, the early and I don't think that 354 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 2: the South made much of a secret of it, but 355 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 2: there was obviously treasonous activity. It led Lincoln to try 356 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 2: very hard to stop the Civil War. He was unable to. 357 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 2: You wind the clock ahead a bit, I don't think 358 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 2: I think this is more significant than the teapot Dome 359 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 2: scandal under the Harding years. I think it's more significant 360 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 2: than maybe parallel with the Fellow Travelers in the thirties 361 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 2: and up through the fifties, where we thought the communists 362 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 2: actually and they were trying to dramatically change America. I 363 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 2: think it's more significant than Watergate and probably also more 364 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 2: significant than Waco. A lot of investigations that meant a 365 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 2: lot of meant a lot to the American people because 366 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 2: they were about oversight what we are looking at right now. 367 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 2: And you have two criminal referrals that you referred to already, 368 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 2: John Brennan, the former head of the CIA, who previously 369 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 2: in his life was an avowed communist, and you have 370 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 2: a criminal referral also for James Comy, the head of 371 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 2: the FBI, who apparently sought to and even still apparently 372 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 2: Bear's Hill will toward President Trump, sought to change history. 373 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,719 Speaker 2: So what this conspiracy does, and it's very important understand 374 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 2: the law. Conspiracy is an incohatee crime. That is to say, 375 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 2: a conspiracy to do something is something that you get 376 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 2: prosecuted for. If there is new evidence that emerges, you 377 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 2: can retoll the statute of limitations and go back in 378 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 2: time until you see the originating acts with clarity. It 379 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 2: is not complicity. Complicity is not just because you participate 380 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 2: in something or are complicit does not make you directly 381 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 2: liable for a crime of complicity. But you can be 382 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 2: liable for the crime of conspiracy. And what we see 383 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 2: here in that just the one hundred plus documents that 384 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 2: have been released, and we're told that there are thousands coming. 385 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 2: And I credit you, I credit John Solomon, I credit 386 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 2: a lot of people who are investigative in their outlook 387 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 2: for constantly prodding about this. What we see is the 388 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 2: possibility that we will finally get accountability for things like 389 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 2: the White House meetings in which both before and after 390 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,959 Speaker 2: the election, Barack Obama and a handful of other people, 391 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 2: including Hillary Clinton and others, literally not only tried to 392 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 2: influence the outcome of twenty the twenty sixteen election, but 393 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 2: after that election tried in turn to and effectively did 394 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 2: shift the course of the country with unlawful behavior, unlawful 395 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 2: actions that are conspiratorial. So, Frank, we're talking about the 396 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 2: word that Gabberd used was treasonous. We are talking about 397 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 2: the attempt to undermine the democracy at the very top 398 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 2: by the people who are at the very top. It's 399 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 2: a very very serious investigation. 400 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, Bobby, Just to clarify one piece of this, there 401 00:24:51,040 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: is evidently the opportunity to pull in Hillary Clinton and 402 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: some of what she did, including I assume her email 403 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:12,200 Speaker 1: misconduct as Secretary of State. Is that correct or does 404 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: it almost certain? Yeah, to sort of later activities like 405 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: the Russia hoax itself. 406 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 2: So we're not going to know the answer to that 407 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 2: question until the string is finally pulled. A conspiracy is 408 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 2: individuals working together toward an end that is illegal and 409 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 2: represents a statutory crime. And what we don't know is 410 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 2: what we know is that there are meetings that occurred 411 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 2: in which they deliberately miscast all of the Russia related information. 412 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 2: They miscast it as having had an influence on the 413 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 2: election when it did not. They blamed Trump for being 414 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 2: a provocateur of this, which he was not. They spent 415 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 2: billions of dollars. I mean that, by the way, is 416 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 2: a waste, broad and abuse issue all by itself, independent 417 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 2: of trying to flip the election. And you know, I 418 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 2: guess what. I look at this, frank As, I look 419 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 2: at this, and I say, thank God, there is someone 420 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 2: with the courage. I mean, as an intelligence officer myself 421 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 2: for ten years, we were incredibly careful about everything we did. 422 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 2: We didn't touch politics. As as a litigator, I was 423 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 2: always attentive to procedure. That's a very important part of 424 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 2: the rule of law, and as an oversight guy for 425 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 2: Gingrid for five years, we looked at this kind of 426 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 2: miss mallan nonfeasance by other federal actors. But to see 427 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,959 Speaker 2: this go all the way up to the president, a 428 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 2: former secretary of State, the vice president, eventually president, you know, 429 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 2: becoming president. All of this speaks the law fair piece 430 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 2: of this. It speaks to a very wide net in 431 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 2: which there were either people who were acting or people 432 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 2: who were covering up for those who were acting. And 433 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 2: do I think Hillary Clinton is in that mix? I 434 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 2: sure do. 435 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 1: What do you say in response to criticisms that this is, 436 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: you know, pure politics, this is a kind of banana 437 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: republic action against a partisan adversary. 438 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. I listened Frank to the response that Barack Obama made. Okay, 439 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 2: he's counting on several things. He's counting on a very 440 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 2: liberal federal bench, maybe arguing that the Statute of limitations 441 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 2: is up on this, or taking the side of There's 442 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 2: an old case called Baker v. Carr, which says judges 443 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 2: don't like to get involved in politics, somehow protecting him 444 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 2: or shielding him from what appears now from the documents 445 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 2: to be active involvement in that collusion probe, or setting 446 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 2: up that collusion probe, which of course was false from 447 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 2: the outset. I think, I think that you have to 448 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 2: understand that when I hear Barack Obama, who doesn't tend 449 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 2: to comment on much, roaring out of his home, to say, 450 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 2: this is all bizarre and don't look here, nothing to 451 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 2: see here. Look the other way. I think of the 452 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 2: old Shakespearean adage. I think from Hamlet, the lady doth 453 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 2: protests too much, and I will tell you where there's smoke. Again, 454 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 2: it's an old idiom, but you know, or cliche, but 455 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 2: where there's smoke, there's fire, there's often fire. And I 456 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 2: think what you have here is a long reckoning, a 457 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,120 Speaker 2: period of time during which people thought initially they could 458 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 2: get away with violating the law. They did. They then 459 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 2: presented those violations to the FISA court, pulled the wool 460 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 2: over many of their eyes, continued essentially to build on 461 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 2: one false premise other false premises, until you had what 462 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 2: looked like a roaring fire and it was actually all 463 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 2: smoke and mirrors, or to put it differently, not to 464 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 2: mix metaphors. It was an intentional creation of falsehood in 465 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 2: order to delegitimize, if not remove, Donald Trump, and I 466 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,719 Speaker 2: think it is. I don't know, you know, there are 467 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 2: official definitions of treason, but I will tell you right 468 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 2: now that this to me looks like the biggest undermining 469 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,959 Speaker 2: of law by people in senior positions maybe in the 470 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 2: history of the country. 471 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: I think, unquestionably in the history of the country. You know, 472 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: much has been made over the years of Watergate, and 473 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: Watergate looks like a church social compared to this. And 474 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: I think to your point, Bobby, and it's hard to 475 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: overstate this. Really the kind of contempt seems to have 476 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: been evidence amongst this circle, and the very I guess 477 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: positive thing in a way is essentially all of the 478 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: people that we've had some very serious concerns about and 479 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: the Obama Biden administrations, and then many of them in 480 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: senior roles in the Biden administration. Subsequently, we're all in 481 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: Rome when these plots and residential directions were handed down. 482 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 2: You're absolutely right, people like Rice and you. 483 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: Know, call me, and people. 484 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 2: Like Brennan call me. You know, I want to just 485 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 2: make this president. I just want to make us and 486 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 2: Clapper and the vice president. I just want to make 487 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 2: a very clear I just want to add a footnote 488 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 2: to what you said, and it is this the contempt. 489 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 2: The contempt that the Democrats had was not just for 490 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 2: rule of law and not just for Donald Trump. It 491 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 2: was contempt for the American people. The boldness which with 492 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 2: which they decided that they would rewrite history and remove 493 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 2: the will of the American people. To me, that that 494 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 2: does come up to the level of being treason us. 495 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, again, at a minimum, it is not saving democracy. 496 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: That of course, is what we've endlessly been old they're 497 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: all about. To the contrary, it is the crushing democracy 498 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: or representative government. It's the core of our constitutional republic. 499 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: And Bobby, just quickly, from the point of view of 500 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: somebody who has a lifetime of experience with the law, 501 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: including on the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, what does 502 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: the judicial process here look like to you? There's obviously 503 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: a concern about bringing any of these cases that might 504 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: arise from all of this to a District of Columbia 505 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: jury pool. 506 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 2: So a broad question, let me give you a narrow 507 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 2: answer as a litigator. 508 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: If it's a broader answer, I'd rather have you have 509 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 1: time for it. Let's do it on the other side 510 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: of a very short break. We're going to pursue all 511 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: of these issues and much more with an experienced member 512 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: of the bar as well as a public servant of 513 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: the first order, and we're very pleased to have him 514 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: with us for the remainder of this hour. Stay tuned 515 00:31:50,440 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: for more with Robert Charles. Right after this. We're back 516 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: as is Robert Charles, and we have a question that 517 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: is hanging and we're anxious to get an answer to it, 518 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: and that is basically, what does the jurisprudential aspect of 519 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: this matter of treason, especially if one might find a rather, 520 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: shall we say, in different jury pool, in say, the 521 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: district of Columbia, should any of the cases be brought 522 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: to justice? There your thoughts, so let. 523 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 2: Me walk Let me quickly walk through the process that 524 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 2: will unfold here myself as a five year investigator for 525 00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 2: Congressional Oversight Chief Counsel and the staffer you do criminal referrals. 526 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 2: So what Telsea Gabbert has done is she has done 527 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 2: an investigation based on documents that they have available to 528 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 2: them already undoubtedly also subpoenating documents within her jurisdiction, and 529 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 2: I'm sure they will release more and she is then 530 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 2: referred to the Justice Department already to individuals Brennan and 531 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 2: call me. But I wouldn't be at all surprised. Indeed, 532 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 2: I fully expect that they will do criminal referrals on 533 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 2: half a dozen or a dozen more individuals. At that point, 534 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 2: the Justice Department probably will convene a grand jury, and 535 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 2: they will begin to bring witnesses. Before the grand jury, 536 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 2: they will show them documents. The grand jury will return indictments. 537 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,479 Speaker 2: You can return an indictment in another way, you can 538 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 2: do what's called an information, but I don't think they'll 539 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 2: do that. This is too significant. They will have a 540 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 2: grand jury set of indictments, and it'll probably take them 541 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 2: I mean, realistically, it usually takes it could take a year, 542 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 2: it could take more to try to fully flesh out 543 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 2: what the conspiracy look like. And then they will present 544 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 2: that information in a court and they will begin to 545 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 2: prosecute these people, probably one by one, maybe maybe altogether. 546 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 2: We'll see, And then of course they'd have separate council. 547 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 2: But the jurisdiction, you have many jurisdictional choices. Obviously a 548 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 2: lot of these crimes occurred in Washington, DC, which might 549 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 2: affect the jury pool. But you can make an argument 550 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 2: that the jury pool for some reason is infected, and 551 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 2: then you go to a different jurisdiction of federal jurisdiction. 552 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,959 Speaker 2: You could remove them from the very beginning. You could 553 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,280 Speaker 2: have an appeal to try to get the case removed 554 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 2: from the very beginning, or you could simply bring it 555 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 2: in another place where the crimes occurred. So you know, 556 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,839 Speaker 2: just like in a tort environment, if I'm standing in 557 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:44,800 Speaker 2: one state and I shoot a gun and the bullet 558 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 2: crosses state lines and has a criminal impact, you can 559 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 2: bring you get jurisdictional options in both jurisdictions. So but 560 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 2: at the end of the day, I think what you're 561 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 2: going to find here is a serious non political evaluation. 562 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 2: Why because everybody's suspecting. I mean, you have to convince 563 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 2: the other half of the country that thinks this might 564 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 2: be political, that the rule of law was fundamentally truly 565 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 2: dangerously to borrow Gabbert's word, treasonously betrayed, and to be honest, 566 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 2: Frank and I am an old investigator and litigator, I 567 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 2: see this happening in not this particular conspiracy, but I 568 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 2: think there are if you go back in time to 569 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 2: Daily Chicago or tweeds New York or Mills, Maine. I 570 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 2: put her in that category. I think you've had years 571 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 2: and years of weed garden growing, and I think investigations 572 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 2: into potential criminality by pieces of that administration at the 573 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 2: state level are just as important. I think you cannot 574 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 2: allow criminality, criminality to run wild, because at the end 575 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,439 Speaker 2: of the day, it so thoroughly undermines rule of law 576 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 2: that people don't obey the laws anymore. 577 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 1: Right, You and I've talked about this on innumerable occasions, 578 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 1: and I think you're absolutely right, Bobby. This is a 579 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:09,799 Speaker 1: corrective that is necessary, completely necessary to restore confidence in 580 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: equal justice under the law. And so I'm perfal that 581 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: that will be the upshot of all of this, whatever 582 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,359 Speaker 1: the outcome of the prosecutions and the trials and so on, 583 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 1: that at least there will be a process whereby people 584 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: are held to account for what does seem to be 585 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,720 Speaker 1: high crimes and misdemeanors, if I can use that expression treason. 586 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,720 Speaker 1: In other words, let me ask you, Bobby, to pivot 587 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: to another topic that I know, again is very much 588 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,720 Speaker 1: on your mind, coming as you do from a border state, 589 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: we're fond of observing here that every state is a 590 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,239 Speaker 1: border state now as a result of having left the 591 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: borders open for so long during the Biden years. But 592 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,800 Speaker 1: the state of Maine, with a northern border and actually 593 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: quite a long sea coastline line as well, is quite 594 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: a far removed from the southern border, which has been 595 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: the focus of most of the concerns about illegal immigration. 596 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 1: How serious a problem is it in Maine from across 597 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: that northern border, and talk a bit about your thinking 598 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: as to what needs to be done about it. 599 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 2: It is a proliferating problem, Frank, I mean, we just 600 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 2: to get the facts out on paper first. We do 601 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,799 Speaker 2: have about a six hundred mile land border and a 602 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 2: sea border, maritime border that's about three thousand miles. So 603 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,439 Speaker 2: the room for illegals to find a way in here 604 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 2: from the north end from the east is considerable, particularly 605 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 2: as we shut down and the president is very effectively 606 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 2: shut down the southern border we have. You know, you 607 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 2: often like to speak about enemies from within as well 608 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 2: as enemies from without, and to borrow that concept for 609 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 2: a minute, we have people who don't abide the law 610 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 2: within the leadership of the state of Maine, and obviously 611 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 2: those who want to violate the law and get into 612 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 2: this state for drug trafficking, human trafficking, sex traffic, all 613 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 2: kinds of nefarious purposes from outside the state and outside 614 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,280 Speaker 2: the country. I will be up on the northern border 615 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 2: shortly myself again to meet with people, and I'll tell 616 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 2: you that we have a very we need technology to 617 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 2: protect us on the northern border because the numbers of 618 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 2: people coming over that border are considerable. And you may 619 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,720 Speaker 2: or may not remember that actually the nine to eleven, 620 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 2: some of the nine to eleven hijackers came over the 621 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 2: Canadian border down through Maine and eventually hijacked out of Fulgan. 622 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 2: So we have both terrorism and drug and human trafficking 623 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 2: issues that definitely relate to the northern border. We've now 624 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 2: bump up, bumped up against numbers on the northern border 625 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 2: that are way higher than we have ever seen before. 626 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,280 Speaker 2: So it is not the first place that our drugs 627 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,799 Speaker 2: come from. Our first place right now that drugs come 628 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 2: from are out of hubs in Boston and New York. 629 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 2: We know where they come from. I talk with deea weekly. 630 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 2: This governor is not doing anything to turn that volume down, 631 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,240 Speaker 2: even though state police are just swamped right now trying 632 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 2: desperately to try to turn that down. But boy, if 633 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 2: they open the faucet from the north, we better damn 634 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:11,359 Speaker 2: well have a governor who can stop it. 635 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 1: So Bobby, we have to take a break here in 636 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,320 Speaker 1: just a moment. But I'm having spent some time in Maine. 637 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: It's a magnificent place, but that border is pretty wild 638 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: in large stretches of it. I'm interested in your thoughts 639 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: about what can be done to secure it, or at 640 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: least make it more secure than it currently is in 641 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,799 Speaker 1: light of what you're saying is a present danger, let 642 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 1: alone what it could be in the future. We'll pick 643 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 1: up on the other side of the last of our 644 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: blocks before we have to let Bobby go. Stay tuned 645 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: for more, if you would plase folks right after this, 646 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,839 Speaker 1: Welcome back to this final installment of our long conversation, 647 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: very special conversation with Robert Charles, a former Assistant Secretary 648 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: of State, now a candidate for governor in this Republican 649 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 1: primary in the state of Maine next year. Bobby, we're 650 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 1: talking about the border to the north and the fact that, 651 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 1: as you say, it's a problem now, but it could 652 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: become vastly more so if a push is made to 653 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:47,160 Speaker 1: exploit its openness, its vulnerabilities. What can be done, it's 654 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,320 Speaker 1: a practical matter to make it more secure. 655 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,799 Speaker 2: I will tell you, Frank, there are at least a 656 00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,839 Speaker 2: dozen things we could do that we're not doing right 657 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 2: now now. And just to start from the top. Having 658 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,759 Speaker 2: spent time also on the Southern border, I did oversight 659 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 2: of the southern years ago and investigated down there, particularly 660 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 2: on the account of our Couner Agency Task Force. That 661 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 2: up elevates the role of locals and state police and 662 00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:19,480 Speaker 2: gives them the money and the people that they need, 663 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 2: and then gives them the federal support in CBP with 664 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 2: a backup from ice, A backup from DEA. Another thing 665 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 2: you need to do is really review and then deploy technologies. 666 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,320 Speaker 2: We do not have enough people to man and line 667 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 2: that border the way we do at the southern border, 668 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 2: and right now it's not as porous. I mean it 669 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 2: could be as porous. It is as open, but it 670 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:43,880 Speaker 2: isn't being poured through the way the Southern border is. 671 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 2: Another thing you need to do is put training in 672 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 2: place so that people understand what they're really doing up there. 673 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 2: And it's not for the law enforcement community. It's to 674 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 2: revitalize I guess to change a little bit the culture 675 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 2: of the state of Maine so that we are not 676 00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 2: tolerant of illegals and of drug traffickers. You know, a 677 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 2: lot of this comes from a governor. You also can obviously, 678 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 2: you have to. I mean I put this hand in 679 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,080 Speaker 2: glove with trying to get the drug traffickers and human 680 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,400 Speaker 2: traffickers out of this state. You have to create deterrence. 681 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,799 Speaker 2: There are a lot of ways to create deterrence, but 682 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 2: you have to prosecute. You have to bring these people in. 683 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 2: You don't show them away, you don't send them home 684 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 2: right away. We joke a little bit about needing an 685 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,880 Speaker 2: alcatraz up here in Maine. Maybe you know a Boone 686 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 2: Island or something where people can a big rock that 687 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 2: they can be stuck on so that there's deterrence until 688 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,440 Speaker 2: such time as they get shipped out or prosecuted. We 689 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,920 Speaker 2: need to prosecute. We need to create deterrence, not have appeasement. 690 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 2: We need to be put in a position where we 691 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 2: have the federal funding right now. You need to a 692 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,800 Speaker 2: governor needs to go to the Office of Justice Programs, 693 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:47,279 Speaker 2: go down to ONDCP, go down to Homeland Security, and 694 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 2: pull back the millions of dollars that allow us to 695 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 2: put that technology in place and allow us to retrain 696 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,120 Speaker 2: and uptrain. A governor needs to be prepared and actually 697 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 2: have contingency plans for deploying the national Guard in support 698 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,839 Speaker 2: of law enforcement against our northern border. We do that 699 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,440 Speaker 2: on the southern border. The state's abbot are fully prepared 700 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,879 Speaker 2: and he has deployed National Guard down there. We need 701 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,319 Speaker 2: to be ready for that surge. We need to be 702 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,840 Speaker 2: putting a kind of a vigilance out in the maritime 703 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 2: environment because these drug traffickers once they I mean, I've 704 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,359 Speaker 2: talked a bit about how they have already put main 705 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 2: under siege with all kinds of serious drugs, but they move. 706 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:29,240 Speaker 2: The traffickers are not they're almost like they are business people. 707 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,840 Speaker 2: They of course killing is part of their business, but 708 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:36,480 Speaker 2: they actually get into sex trafficking where the contraband is 709 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,799 Speaker 2: easy to move and there's not sufficient law enforcement. We're 710 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 2: now having drug houses get closed here, getting shut down 711 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 2: here and there, and they're finding chloroform in those drug houses. 712 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 2: Chloroform has nothing to do with drug trafficking. It has 713 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,840 Speaker 2: to do with sex trafficking. And so what you're seeing 714 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,479 Speaker 2: is a gradual lawlessness grow up here. And of course 715 00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,799 Speaker 2: the northern border is very vulnerable. If the signal is 716 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:03,480 Speaker 2: sent that pieces drug traffickers, human traffickers, those who are 717 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 2: just coming across this border to get into the United 718 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 2: States unlawfully, then this is where they will come. You know, 719 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,560 Speaker 2: it's you know, as Rich Armitage used to tell me 720 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 2: a guy that I worked for at one point in 721 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,000 Speaker 2: a three times seal, when you pull your hand or 722 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,759 Speaker 2: your fist out of the bucket, it fills in real 723 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,440 Speaker 2: fast behind you. If there is no leadership in a place, 724 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 2: they will come. And to put it slightly differently, and 725 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 2: the reason why main citizens need to be educated about 726 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,719 Speaker 2: this is, I'll go back to Edmund Burke. All it 727 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 2: takes for evil to prevail is for good people to 728 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,000 Speaker 2: do nothing. We cannot be those people. 729 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:40,719 Speaker 1: Amen, Bobby, just for the word on trafficking, because this 730 00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:46,319 Speaker 1: has become such an epidemic across our country. And as 731 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:50,600 Speaker 1: I said, there's no state that is immune to it, 732 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:56,600 Speaker 1: whether you're literally physically on a border or it's effluent 733 00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:02,359 Speaker 1: are now present in your your state. Could you give 734 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,760 Speaker 1: us just a quick characterization of how serious a problem 735 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,560 Speaker 1: that is at the moment as you see it. 736 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,360 Speaker 2: In the state of Maine, I think we have opened 737 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 2: the doors in a state of Maine. Frank they have 738 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 2: shipped here about eight thousand illegals. I say that because 739 00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 2: ninety percent of the asylum seekers turn out to be fake, 740 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 2: false asylum seekers. We have reports right now of planes, 741 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,839 Speaker 2: believe it or not, landing right here. I won't name 742 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:31,800 Speaker 2: airlines and whatnot, but landing here in Maine. A recent 743 00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,600 Speaker 2: report of a plane landing here in Maine with thirty illegals, 744 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 2: Chinese illegals on the plane, but they were described as 745 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,920 Speaker 2: having student visas, and perhaps they did have student visas 746 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,120 Speaker 2: to a local college, but that local college then reported 747 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,399 Speaker 2: that they never saw these people. So there are ways 748 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:50,959 Speaker 2: that you can get into this state from the air, 749 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 2: from the south, from the east, and from the north. 750 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,160 Speaker 2: Obviously also from the west. But I think New Hampshire 751 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,200 Speaker 2: with a Republican governor, is doing a little better job 752 00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,279 Speaker 2: than we are. And so I think we have to 753 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 2: do is you have to be digitalant, you have to 754 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:06,160 Speaker 2: be upfunded, you have to get the programs in place, 755 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,719 Speaker 2: the technology in place, and most importantly, you have to 756 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,920 Speaker 2: educate your citizens that this is a genuine threat to 757 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,160 Speaker 2: their public safety, and that they have the power to 758 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,879 Speaker 2: control their own destiny by changing the leadership of the state. 759 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 1: Do you have a sense of the percentage of people 760 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,680 Speaker 1: being trafficked in the state of Maine that are children, 761 00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,880 Speaker 1: because this is a particularly abominable practice. 762 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,160 Speaker 2: Actually, the data, the data is there. I can't give 763 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,319 Speaker 2: you those statistics off the top, but I will tell 764 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,399 Speaker 2: you the numbers are rising. And it's like anything else. 765 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,759 Speaker 2: You remember in the southern part of this hemisphere, we 766 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,399 Speaker 2: would shut down Peru with cocaine and they would move 767 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 2: to Bolivia. You shut down Peru and Bolivia, and they 768 00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,120 Speaker 2: moved to Columbia. You shut down Columbia. They moved to Mexico. 769 00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,120 Speaker 2: They opened the land bridge. That is exactly what these 770 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,920 Speaker 2: illegals will do. They will open a northern land bridge. 771 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,720 Speaker 2: The traffickers as well as the traffickers of human beings 772 00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,719 Speaker 2: and children, and I I, frankly, I have fear for 773 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,320 Speaker 2: main children because they don't just bring children in. Frank 774 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,840 Speaker 2: human traffickers and sex traffickers kidnap and so I'm not 775 00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,560 Speaker 2: saying we have that in any numbers now. But you 776 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:16,239 Speaker 2: have to deter bad behavior or it will show up 777 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 2: on your doorstep. 778 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,440 Speaker 1: Exactly, Robert Charles, we have to leave it at that. 779 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:27,440 Speaker 1: That's a I think particularly important principle to be applying 780 00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,080 Speaker 1: to essentially all of the challenges that we've talked about. 781 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:36,319 Speaker 1: Ignoring these phenomena, these travesties really in many cases is 782 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,719 Speaker 1: a formula for having a lot more of them. We 783 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:42,640 Speaker 1: appreciate your leadership, your past service to our country that 784 00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:46,640 Speaker 1: you are rendering these days at AMAC, and we wish 785 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 1: you the best for the prospects of future public service 786 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 1: in the state of bin I. 787 00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,200 Speaker 2: Do I do. If anyone has an if anyone has 788 00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,920 Speaker 2: an interest, I encourage them to go to Bobbyformaine dot com. 789 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,200 Speaker 1: Thank you, Robert. Please come back to us next time, Boks. 790 00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:01,440 Speaker 1: Until then, go fourth and multiply. 791 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:11,960 Speaker 2: Mm hmm