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Speaker 1: Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you

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Speaker 1: can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in

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Speaker 1: just two visits. Sign up now in the Regal app.

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Speaker 1: We're at the link in the show description and use

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Speaker 1: code film Spot twenty five. That's film Spot twenty five

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Speaker 1: to receive your discount. What kind of a show you

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Speaker 1: guys putting on here today?

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Speaker 2: You're not interested in Armed now? No, Look, we're going

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Speaker 2: to do this thing. We're going to have a conversation

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Speaker 2: from Chicago. This is Film Spotting celebrating our twentieth year.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Larson and I'm Adam Kempinar.

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Speaker 2: Alphaba and Glinda are back for one more flight in

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Speaker 2: Wicked for Good. We've got a.

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Speaker 1: Review plus Train Dreams with Joel Edgerton and Felicity Jones,

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Speaker 1: and we'll assemble the candidates for our annual Golden Brick Award.

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Speaker 1: That more ahead on film Spotting. Welcome to Film Spotting.

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Speaker 1: Quick question for you, Josh, if a great film gets

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Speaker 1: released exclusively on Netflix but nobody sees it, does it

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Speaker 1: really exist?

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Speaker 2: See where you're going there? I'd like it. You're referencing

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Speaker 2: Train Dreams about a longer trees falling forests. Okay, very impressive.

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Speaker 1: Thank you in fairness to Train Dreams, and I suppose

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Speaker 1: Netflix it has been in the top five. When I

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Speaker 1: clicked on it this weekend to rewatch it, it was

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Speaker 1: number four, So it seems that Netflix subscribers anyway are

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Speaker 1: watching Train Dreams. We'll talk about just how great or

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Speaker 1: good Train Dreams is later in the show. You can

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Speaker 1: find the film, which stars Joel Edgerton as a logger

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Speaker 1: in the early twentieth century Pacific Northwest, on Netflix. Also

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Speaker 1: on the show, the film spotting Golden Brick Award long list.

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Speaker 1: The brick goes to our favorite film from a new

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Speaker 1: or emerging filmmaker, and we do have quite a long list.

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Speaker 1: We're going to let our listeners know, Josh, all of

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Speaker 1: the titles that are currently up for consideration.

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Speaker 2: Good to have a long list, and a few of

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Speaker 2: these might be familiar, especially our listeners who keep up

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Speaker 2: with smaller films like this, But there may be a

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Speaker 2: title on here that are completely new, haven't heard of it all,

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Speaker 2: and at this point we at least think they're worth

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Speaker 2: checking out, So yeah, eager to run through those titles.

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Speaker 1: We will also have poll results listeners pick their favorite

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Speaker 1: actor director duo of the twenty first century. So far

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Speaker 1: that sounds momentous, and a new poll asking you to

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Speaker 1: choose your twenty twenty five scenes. Deealer, this will be

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Speaker 1: a fun one. A quick reminder of film Spotting is

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Speaker 1: now available as a video podcast. Yes, watch, subscribe, do

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Speaker 1: whatever you're supposed to do. Share. If you're a Spotify listener,

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Speaker 1: you can toggle between audio and video. You can watch

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Speaker 1: the show on YouTube. For a link to all of

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Speaker 1: our episodes and the video link, go to filmspotting dot

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Speaker 1: net slash episodes.

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Speaker 2: It's time to talk Wicked for Good, Adam, and I

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Speaker 2: think we're going to have to rely on a bit

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Speaker 2: of Sam van Holgren advice for this one. Sam our producer,

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Speaker 2: has in couraged us over the years. From time to time,

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Speaker 2: you know, when we're up against a movie that neither

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Speaker 2: of us just didn't really work for either of us,

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Speaker 2: Sam has suggested, Hey, at least say one nice thing

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Speaker 2: about it now. I saw your star rating on letterboxed,

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Speaker 2: Adam for Wicked for Good, and it was bad. Still,

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Speaker 2: I had hoped that I could possibly be the Glinda

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Speaker 2: to your Alphaba. I don't know, yes, if that actually

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Speaker 2: works out, as we'll get to, I'm a little confused

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Speaker 2: about those sorts of things. I knew. You also weren't

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Speaker 2: a big fan of the first installment of director John M.

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Speaker 2: Chew's adaptation of the Broadway musical, but I was largely

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Speaker 2: due to the lead performances of Cynthia Rivos, Alphaba, and

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Speaker 2: Ariana Grande as Glinda, the reimagined characters from The Wizard

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Speaker 2: of Oz. So although I've seen the musical and know

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Speaker 2: that there's a dark dip in its second half, I

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Speaker 2: still held out hope that those stars could carry the

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Speaker 2: day in Wicked for good. But oh no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: no no, they decidedly did not, And we can talk

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Speaker 2: about how much fault of theirs that actually is. And so, yes,

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Speaker 2: we find ourselves in a situation where it might serve

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Speaker 2: us well to at least start by following Sam's advice,

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Speaker 2: not only for the sake of conversation, but you know,

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Speaker 2: to honor the incredible effort that undoubtedly went into a

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Speaker 2: production of this scale from all sorts of artists, and

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Speaker 2: also to acknowledge those audiences who will connect with the movie.

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Speaker 2: I've seen some praiseworthy star ratings go by in my

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Speaker 2: letterboxed feed as well. So did anything in Wicked for good?

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Speaker 2: Connect with you? Say something nice, Adam, then you can

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Speaker 2: say anything at all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this does go back to the very early days

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Speaker 1: of the show Cinecast. Sam suggested that even if the

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Speaker 1: two of us hated a movie, the closing question to

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Speaker 1: the setup, like the one you just did, Josh, should

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Speaker 1: always be tell me something you liked about the movie?

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Speaker 1: What did you like about the film. And it's so

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Speaker 1: funny because when I was putting together my thoughts on

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Speaker 1: the film, I was preparing for this conversation. I thought,

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Speaker 1: this is a classic Sam scenario. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: Josh's setup will sync with me or not, but I've

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Speaker 1: got a bunch of positive thoughts before getting to the negative.

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Speaker 1: And it turns out, Yeah, it turns out that I'm

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Speaker 1: in sync with Sam as well, because I did after

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Speaker 1: you know, I was collecting those thoughts and I was

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Speaker 1: putting them on paper. I read Sam's Letterbox review and

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Speaker 1: I think I can't remember. He may have given it

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Speaker 1: two and a half stars, or actually maybe it was

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Speaker 1: two stars, which is also what I gave it on letterbox.

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Speaker 1: And I do want to quote our producer Sam Here

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Speaker 1: he said, I actually found the watching of it a

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Speaker 1: more pleasant experience than the first installment. It could also

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Speaker 1: be that the sequel has less world building, not a

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Speaker 1: strength of the first Goodbye Forever Shi's You, and instead

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Speaker 1: is more reliant on intimate scenes with an emphasis on

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Speaker 1: performance and singing. So I guess what I'm saying is

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Speaker 1: that there is just less that I didn't like. That's

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Speaker 1: Josh exactly where I was with Wicked for Good. I

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Speaker 1: too found the world building of part one tedious and

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Speaker 1: was drawn more to the more intimate conflicts that this

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Speaker 1: part seemed to be constructed on. The propaganda thread and

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Speaker 1: the movies real world political relevance elements that began in

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Speaker 1: part one were striking to me, seeing the Wizard and

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Speaker 1: his administration as an allegory for fascism and to get

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Speaker 1: explicit about it, And there are several examples we could

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Speaker 1: point to. Just look at the wonderful number. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: give you some lyrics here. Take it from a wise

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Speaker 1: old Carnie. Once folks buy into your blarney, it becomes

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Speaker 1: the thing though most hold on to once they swallowed

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Speaker 1: sham and hokum. Facts and life won't unchoke them. They'll

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Speaker 1: go on believing what they want to show them exactly

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Speaker 1: what's the score, they'll just believe it even more. We're

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Speaker 1: seeing that play out on a pretty massive scale right now,

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Speaker 1: and have over the past few years. And there's a line.

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Speaker 1: Here's where I'll get very explicit. There's a line we've

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Speaker 1: all heard anti trumpers say about Maga over the last decade,

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Speaker 1: a variation on he could go out on to Madison

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Speaker 1: Avenue right now and shoot someone in broad daylight and

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't change how his followers feel about him. Jeff

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Speaker 1: Goldbloom as the Wizard, has a line in the movie

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Speaker 1: during that number, right before it or right after it,

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Speaker 1: where he says essentially the same exact thing. It's a

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Speaker 1: nice reminder, though, because this is nothing new. This song

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Speaker 1: wasn't written for this movie. It wasn't written for this

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Speaker 1: time and our place. We've always had and always will

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Speaker 1: have con men trying to take advantage of the disadvantage.

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Speaker 1: Wonderful was my favorite number in For Good, and I'm

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Speaker 1: a little skeptical that for Good is if if for

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Speaker 1: Good is working the way it should, maybe Wonderful shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be the best number, but so be it it.

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 1: It was my favorite. And all of this is to

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Speaker 1: say I kept I kept waiting for this to go

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Speaker 1: off the rails. I didn't read it, but I saw

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Speaker 1: Justin Chang's New Yorker review headline, Wicked for Good is very,

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Speaker 1: very bad. I thought, maybe Chang, who's a great critic,

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Speaker 1: Maybe Chang just got this one wildly wrong. No, I

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Speaker 1: just had to wait for it for good. Beginning in

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Speaker 1: that's it, and maybe even a little longer than that.

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Speaker 1: Josh for Good begins as a welcome improvement on part

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Speaker 1: one until a house size twist and a forced march

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Speaker 1: to sync with the wonderful Wizard of Oz send the

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Speaker 1: story spiraling into chaos. We could dig into that, we

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Speaker 1: probably will dig into that more, but I think you

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Speaker 1: know where I'm going. For me, there is a point

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Speaker 1: where this film goes from pretty enjoyable to near disaster.

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Speaker 1: I really was actively engaged in a battle with this

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Speaker 1: film from this point on. And it is when it

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Speaker 1: is when that house, that house falls and we all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden start having to see the alignment with

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Speaker 1: the Wizard of Oz, that that's where it really started

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Speaker 1: for me. I'm curious for you because it sounds like

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Speaker 1: you didn't like the movie from your intro. I'm curious

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Speaker 1: if it started well before that for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well before that, But you are marking the disastrous point.

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Speaker 2: And there's a line of dialogue that handily does it

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Speaker 2: for us. This is during the love scene that you know,

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Speaker 2: got quite a lot of giggles in the theater where

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Speaker 2: our showing was. And Alphaba turns to her partner, let's

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Speaker 2: just say and says, this isn't going to make sense,

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Speaker 2: but there's a house and it's flying through the sky. Now,

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Speaker 2: all we've seen previously is exactly what you described, a

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Speaker 2: house flying through the sky. She sits up in bed

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Speaker 2: and has this epiphany and says that, and I can't

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Speaker 2: think of another movie that introduced its own disaster so explicitly.

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Speaker 2: So now I need to back up and remember what

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Speaker 2: I propose that we start with. And I think I'm

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Speaker 2: in alignment with you. It is the political allegory we've

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Speaker 2: been slowly collecting over this disastrous year in America of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, These movies that are speaking to this moment,

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Speaker 2: And I think you make a very good point. This

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Speaker 2: is based on a musical that's been around for a while,

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Speaker 2: based on a book that's been around since what ninety five,

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Speaker 2: so obviously not speaking to the moment the way something

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Speaker 2: like you know, Paul Thomas Anderson's One Battle after Another

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Speaker 2: is even though that was also conceived, you know, before

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Speaker 2: the immediacy of our current moment, but I do put

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Speaker 2: it in that basket. I put it in that intriguing

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Speaker 2: basket of giving us a way to think about what

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Speaker 2: is happening to us, a filter, another perspective, another lens,

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Speaker 2: and every one of those that we get right now,

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Speaker 2: I think is important because different audiences are going to

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Speaker 2: be experiencing these different movies, and it may be on

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Speaker 2: some level some sort of wake up call. Now that

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Speaker 2: being said, this is in the corner of that basket

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Speaker 2: of a political awakening basket that I would also put

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Speaker 2: The Running Man, which we talked about recently in terms

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Speaker 2: of its convictions, its intention, it's and really it's it's

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Speaker 2: potential for change. You know, One Battle after Another for

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Speaker 2: me is way on the other area of that basket,

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Speaker 2: but still it's there in Wicked for Good, and it's

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Speaker 2: there in some interesting ways. Madam Marble's saying, just let

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Speaker 2: them assume to Glinda early on when Glenda objects that

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Speaker 2: I don't have any magical powers. People won't believe this,

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Speaker 2: and you know, so that's sort of the lie of omission.

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Speaker 2: That we are deep in an era of lies of commission.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they're in front of us every day, but

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Speaker 2: we forget that part of this disaster, this political disaster too,

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Speaker 2: is also lies of a mission, people not stepping forward

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Speaker 2: with the truth. So I thought that was a nice

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Speaker 2: little touch, or even fierro. This is more along the

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Speaker 2: lines of what you were pointing out very early in

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Speaker 2: a scene of And this will tie into one of

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Speaker 2: my objections potential conflict, as he is now an OZ soldier,

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Speaker 2: head of the Guard, charged essentially with chasing down Alphaba,

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Speaker 2: and he's watching the propaganda at play and says something

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Speaker 2: like they're so empty headed about the people, they'll believe anything, right,

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Speaker 2: and Alphaba later, I think Oz later says something they'll

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Speaker 2: go on believing what they want to. So this is

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Speaker 2: a recurring theme that's I think is interesting, topical, pertinent,

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Speaker 2: and handled quite well for me. The one other thing

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Speaker 2: I'll add to that a touching moment and was Arrivo

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Speaker 2: singing no place like home. This is Alphaba lamenting that

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Speaker 2: you know she loved Oz and what's happening to it?

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Speaker 2: I think that has resonance in twenty twenty five, especially

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Speaker 2: for American citizens of color. Right, she sings, why why

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Speaker 2: do I love this place? It's never loved me? Okay? That,

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Speaker 2: you know, a very heartrending sentiment, well delivered by Rivo,

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Speaker 2: and it falls into the same category I think of,

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Speaker 2: at least a political awareness that's topical. Now, does that

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Speaker 2: all mostly get abandoned for the final third, Yes, until

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Speaker 2: it's kind of like yanked in half heartedly at some point,

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Speaker 2: And I think that's part of the movies failing. But

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Speaker 2: let me go back at him before we talk about

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Speaker 2: the Wizard of ad Oz connections that are forced on

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Speaker 2: this and for me, it's that scene where Fierro does

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Speaker 2: talk about how the people are so gullible. Again, he

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Speaker 2: at this point is supposed to be in charge of

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Speaker 2: chasing down Alphaba. He's also just been told by Glinda,

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Speaker 2: and this is very early on not spoiling anything, that

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Speaker 2: they're going to get married. And Glinda is not sure

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Speaker 2: about any of this. She's not sure about how she

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Speaker 2: feels in about Alphaba. None of this is communicated coherently

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Speaker 2: in terms of the internal logic of any of these characters.

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Speaker 2: And that is why I could not even connect with

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Speaker 2: the emotions that it sounds like you and Sam did,

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Speaker 2: because in part one the internal logic was mostly there.

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Speaker 2: They were meeting each other, they were growing as friends.

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Speaker 2: There were conflicts that drew them apart, and it exploded

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Speaker 2: at the end into this larger conflict that at least

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Speaker 2: I could all trace logically. But this is part of

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Speaker 2: I think, and I want to. I don't know how

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Speaker 2: much familiarity you have with the book. Maybe we'll have

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Speaker 2: to open this up to listeners. I think it's a

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Speaker 2: fatal flaw in this entire Wicked project. That is, it

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Speaker 2: had this idea, what if you know, the Wicked Witch

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Speaker 2: of the West was not so bad? Right? It had

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Speaker 2: this idea and then just is trying to forcibly retrofit

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Speaker 2: every element not only of the Wizard of Oz but

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Speaker 2: of its own story to fit that. And the rubber

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Speaker 2: meets the road for me very early in this movie,

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Speaker 2: when you don't understand it's not that it's not that

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Speaker 2: Glenda can't be conflicted, you don't understand how she's conflicted.

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Speaker 2: What is conflicting her. She changes her conflicts on a

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Speaker 2: seen by scene basis, and the same happens for Fierro,

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Speaker 2: the same happens for the Wizard, it happens for everyone.

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Speaker 2: You know what, give Madame Morrible credit. She I knew

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Speaker 2: where she was this whole movie, and she was probably

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Speaker 2: the only one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a very good point, and were completely on

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Speaker 1: the lack of coherent being the biggest issue. Probably the

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Speaker 1: best way to sum up what's wrong with this movie,

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Speaker 1: the lack of internal logic and all of that preventing

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Speaker 1: me as a viewer from then ultimately connecting with the

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Speaker 1: emotions and then really being invested in what I should

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Speaker 1: be invested in, which is, by the end, this tension

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Speaker 1: and this resolution of sorts in the relationship between Glinda

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Speaker 1: and Alphaba. That's what this story fundamentally is about. And

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Speaker 1: I should feel something, and I understand that some viewers

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Speaker 1: surely do. I didn't feel anything, and it's because of

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Speaker 1: all the obstacles, not the plot obstacles, but all of

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Speaker 1: the incoherence that ultimately kept me from caring. Josh. Though

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Speaker 1: that all said, I want to challenge a little bit

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Speaker 1: what you're saying in terms of maybe the project itself

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Speaker 1: or the erment itself. But I also want to acknowledge

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Speaker 1: that I am basing this on like I have. I

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Speaker 1: have no background, really, and I'm not saying you do either.

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Speaker 1: But I don't know the lore of Wicked. I've only

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Speaker 1: just now, very recently picked up on the fact that

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Speaker 1: apparently this is a known thing, that part two isn't

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Speaker 1: as good as Part one.

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Speaker 2: And it's a fault of the stage musical for sure.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yes, okay, so that's I've experienced that.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really know that, and I've only seen this once.

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Speaker 1: And I looked up the date I found the pictures

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Speaker 1: on my phone from taking Sophie and one of her

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Speaker 1: friends and that friend's mom. I found them today, January

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Speaker 1: twenty first, twenty eighteen, So it's been seven years. I

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Speaker 1: didn't really know anything about it going in except the

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Speaker 1: basic premise of it. And first I want to say that,

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Speaker 1: just in terms of the experiment of this entire film,

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Speaker 1: I should go back and say the experiment of this

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Speaker 1: entire musical. If you think about all of the different characters,

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Speaker 1: it's introducing all of the different narrative threads and the

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Speaker 1: relationships and the dramas. For those to be resolved in

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Speaker 1: any kind of satisfying way is hard in and of

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Speaker 1: its self right, So for those to be coherent on

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Speaker 1: their own is tough. Then when you add in this

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Speaker 1: element of we agree here, trying to force it into

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Speaker 1: alignment with the Wizard of Oz, that's when I think

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Speaker 1: you really get into trouble. But when I watched it,

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Speaker 1: when I watched it in the theater for the first time,

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Speaker 1: the reason why I did think it was great, besides

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Speaker 1: the music, the reason why I remember being wowed by

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Speaker 1: it in essence, it's because Josh they made it a

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Speaker 1: successful prequel to The Wizard of Oz, meaning they created

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Speaker 1: this entire new universe, exploring these new ideas with characters

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Speaker 1: who felt brand new. I know, obviously some of them

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Speaker 1: are based on or they become the characters that are familiar,

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Speaker 1: but they felt brand new. Yet somehow, by the end,

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Speaker 1: I saw how it started to take the shape of

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Speaker 1: that beloved story that I recognized at the start of

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Speaker 1: the musical. It seemed unthinkable to me that they could

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Speaker 1: link up, but they did it. They did it, though

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Speaker 1: just enough, without making the link feel like the link

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Speaker 1: was the point of the musical. And I had to

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Speaker 1: refresh my memory on this. But when I looked up

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Speaker 1: the plot and was just reading through a plot synopsis

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Speaker 1: of Wicked the Musical, my sense was it didn't strain

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Speaker 1: so hard like the movie does to make things fit.

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Speaker 1: It gave us just enough connection for us to put

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Speaker 1: the rest of the puzzle pieces together in our imagination

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Speaker 1: and that was enough the movie. And it turns out

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Speaker 1: this is true based on what I read the movie.

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Speaker 1: For some reason, Josh, I'm not sure why, because I

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Speaker 1: feel like the target audience for this movie wouldn't really

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Speaker 1: even care. The movie tries so hard to show us

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Speaker 1: how the finished puzzle looks, and all it does is

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00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:23,880
Speaker 1: unnecessarily complicate the narrative, lower the stakes, lessen the emotional

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Speaker 1: impact of moments that should be really powerful. And then

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Speaker 1: the irony, the irony of it is, the great irony

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Speaker 1: of it is, and we won't I won't spoil it here.

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Speaker 1: But after all that straining to make it match up perfectly,

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Speaker 1: all these details, there's one glaring omission from it, like

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Speaker 1: they make one of the pieces not fit at all

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Speaker 1: into the puzzle, and by the end you're scratching your

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Speaker 1: head wondering, Okay, I understand why why they had to

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Speaker 1: leave that one out, because they needed it to fit

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Speaker 1: into another part of the puzzle. But how are you

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Speaker 1: going to make all those other ones fit and then

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Speaker 1: do something different with that one? The whole thing, that

355
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Speaker 1: whole part of this film, It made no sense to me.

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Speaker 1: And by the end I remember, I do remember Josh

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Speaker 1: being in the theater and having those moments again, those

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Speaker 1: linking moments, and feeling like this is a wonder I

359
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 1: can't believe they pulled this off. But again it was

360
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Speaker 1: because my mind was doing a lot of the work

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Speaker 1: for me and for the musical, and the movie doesn't

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Speaker 1: allow for any of that. Room.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my memory. Is similar of having seen and

364
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Speaker 2: it was further back than you did, but feeling like

365
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Speaker 2: it was more of a tact on or towards the end,

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Speaker 2: like oh yeah, this is where the story goes. It

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Speaker 2: stood as its own independent thing. And again this is

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Speaker 2: why to be curious here from listeners who've read the

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Speaker 2: book where it falls on that scale. I think, if

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Speaker 2: there is a scale, perhaps the book handles it. I'm

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Speaker 2: just guessing maybe the book handles it most delicately. The

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Speaker 2: musical gets a little more explicit and now this movie has,

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Speaker 2: to your point, for some inexplicable reason, chosen to push

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Speaker 2: that lever even harder. But I will say the entire

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Speaker 2: you know it also exposed for me what I think,

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Speaker 2: even in the musical is a muddied concept of we're

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Speaker 2: going to switch the witch and make her good? How

378
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Speaker 2: what does that mean? What is the what are the

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Speaker 2: the impetus, the motivations for that, How does Glinda react

380
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Speaker 2: to it? I even think that's muddled from my memory

381
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Speaker 2: and the musical, what you know, what does it mean

382
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Speaker 2: to be good? These are constantly changing, immutable ideas that

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Speaker 2: are never clarified. And I don't think the musical did

384
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Speaker 2: that either. And and I'm not saying like this was

385
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Speaker 2: a doom project, like you shouldn't try to do this.

386
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Speaker 2: I am the Angelie Joelee, fractured fairy tale revisionist, fairytale mollficent.

387
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Speaker 2: I am a huge fan of what it did with

388
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Speaker 2: the Cinderella and it was exactly this. It was to

389
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Speaker 2: explore the villain from a different angle and suggest what

390
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 2: sort of backstory might have led to the actions we

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Speaker 2: know from the fairy tale. And my goodness, that is

392
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Speaker 2: compared to something like this so well thought out in

393
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Speaker 2: terms of making Maleficent a victim of extreme trauma that

394
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Speaker 2: would not justify but explain the action she took in

395
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Speaker 2: what we know as Cinderella. Nothing that thought out has

396
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 2: been put into place, you know, really from my memory

397
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Speaker 2: of the musical in terms of character motivation, inner logic,

398
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Speaker 2: and these are the sort of things that to me

399
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Speaker 2: just became flagrantly exposed in Wicked for Good. If they

400
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 2: were there in the first film, maybe, but that was

401
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 2: such a joyous, more entertaining. The songs were good. The

402
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 2: production numbers they weren't perfect. I know people have their

403
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 2: critiques of the production numbers, but I thought they were

404
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 2: pretty darn good for the most part, and made that

405
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 2: in entertainment, maybe that allowed me to overlook it, but

406
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 2: here it's just it was just glaring to me. Can

407
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 2: we we should talk a little bit more about the songs,

408
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 2: because it sounds like you took some pleasure in them.

409
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Speaker 2: My goodness, I was sitting there for a couple of times,

410
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Speaker 2: and I think this didn't bother me with the stage

411
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Speaker 2: musical because it's all one night, right, So even if

412
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Speaker 2: you're sitting through three kind of glum numbers in a row.

413
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Speaker 2: You've at least got the other numbers from prior to

414
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Speaker 2: intermission dancing in the back of your head here, it's

415
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 2: been a year since, you know, I listened to any

416
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 2: good songs from Wicked, and we get don't. I don't

417
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 2: recall the names of them. There from three different characters,

418
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 2: incredibly slow dirges in a row, and I am sorry

419
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Speaker 2: the one near the end. I got to look up

420
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 2: the name of it it is. It is Alphabu's so

421
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 2: it's a revo. And if she can't pull this off,

422
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Speaker 2: no one's going to be able to pull it off.

423
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Speaker 1: But no good deed? Is it a good deed or

424
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Speaker 1: big night?

425
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Speaker 2: You're you are by far the more musician than I am.

426
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Speaker 2: Is that technically a song? Does that? Can you count

427
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 2: that as a song?

428
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: It's I think it's one that was added for the

429
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Speaker 1: movie too, Josh and it I'm with you. I didn't

430
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: enjoy it. I also didn't enjoy it because I don't

431
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 1: think it. I don't think in terms of the coherence

432
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 1: that we're talking about and the emotional resonance that it needed.

433
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 1: It it doesn't work in terms of the story, so

434
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 1: that that it doesn't work musically and it doesn't work narratively,

435
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: and that's that's a problem. And you're right, if Arivo

436
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 1: can't pull it off, then then what are we talking about?

437
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: That goes back to my earlier point when Jeff Goldbloom

438
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 1: and I love Jeff Goldboom. So this isn't a backhanded compliment.

439
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: But when the Wizard has the best number, has the

440
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: show stopped in a Wicked movie? I think, I think

441
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 1: there may be something off with your film.

442
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 2: And I will dance number.

443
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: That's the dance number and the song I think are

444
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: the best in the movie.

445
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 2: Okay, Can we talk about the coherence there though, because

446
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: this is a confrontation moment between Alphaba and the Wizard.

447
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 2: Glinda is there, and the number of transitions from what

448
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 2: one character believes in states has come to be there

449
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 2: for feels about each other. It's dizzying how many changes

450
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: there are and what we're supposed to be thinking of

451
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 2: those three characters in that one scene.

452
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: I agree, I agree, But here's where it kind of

453
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: worked for me, and it actually goes back to something

454
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: you were saying in terms of in terms of the

455
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: conception of this story in Alphaba and sort of why

456
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 1: and I'll answer why by saying, here's here's how if

457
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: they pulled it off, it could be interesting. And I

458
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: don't know if I ever thought about this at all, Josh,

459
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 1: when I was watching it in the theater, but watching

460
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: it in the movie theater, and it started with that

461
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: scene and realizing what I thought was going on in

462
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: that scene is you have to recognize that essentially, and

463
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: of course all of these these stories, these journeys, these myths,

464
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: they they they pick up on each other, they they

465
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: follow a lot of the same ideas. That scene you

466
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: have to recognize that that defectively. Glinda's sort of a

467
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: very cheerful Darth Vader character, and the Wizard the Wizard

468
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: is the Emperor, and Alphaba is Luke Skywalker and they

469
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: are true they I mean, there are lines that that

470
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 1: truly directly overlap with Star Wars where they are saying,

471
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: imagine what we could do together we if we if

472
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 1: we could harness your power and my power and my

473
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: abilities to sell the people, Imagine all the good we

474
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: could do if if we just combined forces, is what

475
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: is what he says. And they're trying to sell her

476
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: on coming over to the dark Side, and they almost

477
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: they almost pull it off. And so if you see,

478
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: if you see the the experiment here of the movie

479
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: being what if the Wicked Witch of the West, what

480
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: if the whole idea was that that they they actually

481
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: successfully got Luke Skywalker to convert to the dark side,

482
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: which we see effectively in the prequels of that film. Right,

483
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: That's that's there, That's Wicked's version of that what if

484
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: what if we saw that? Would that be in some

485
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: way compelling as opposed to this thought of of someone

486
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: just being born wicked? I could be I could maybe

487
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: be interested in seeing that. I was interested in seeing

488
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: it in the in the theater, Josh in the musical theater.

489
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: And then I'll just say this at the end, what

490
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: I guess I found, at least in theory compelling, was

491
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: somehow watching this, this version, this fanciful version of Star

492
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 1: Wars collide with what is effectively the Man who Shot

493
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: Liberty Balance, because this becomes a movie then about myths,

494
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: and it becomes a movie about printing the legend instead

495
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: of the truth. And on that level, the concept works,

496
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: the execution of this film doesn't work at all.

497
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 2: That's it in your in your analogy, that all well,

498
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 2: and good for that moment. The next scene, one of

499
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 2: them is R two D two, one of them is Yoda,

500
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 2: and one of them is a sand person. So h

501
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 2: I don't know what's going on anymore, right, Yeah?

502
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: No, I agree, I agree completely. And and that's where

503
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: you know someone listening to the you know, I hope.

504
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: I feel like if if I say this, what's the

505
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: gentleman's name who wrote the music? Is Stephen Schwartz behind Wicked.

506
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: That's right, I feel like he's he may jump out

507
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: here like Marshall mccluan and Annie Hall and say, I

508
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: heard what you said. You know nothing of my work.

509
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: No one really needs to hear me explain why musicals work.

510
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: But I was really thinking about this, and this is

511
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: the backstory behind what I wrote on letterbox. My little

512
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: quip was just, hey, maybe some maybe some musicals don't

513
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: need to be movies, or maybe some musicals can't be movies.

514
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: And this goes back to the point I made Josh

515
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: about all of the stories, all of the characters. Somehow

516
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: here again, I can only speak to the experience I

517
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 1: had seven years ago in a theater and thinking it worked,

518
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: and they pulled that off with an intermission in under

519
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: three hours, and here we have two films with a

520
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: combined run time right of approaching five hours. Yeah, and

521
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: it's an incoherent mess by the end of it. So

522
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: why is it? Why does it work as a musical?

523
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: And the best I can come up with, I wonder,

524
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: I wonder how you feel about this theory is in

525
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: the musical. What the magic is is that the way

526
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: character development can happen, the way these narrative arcs can develop,

527
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: is they happen over songs. They happen over acts, but

528
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: they can also happen over a song itself. Tremendous development

529
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: can happen over a three minute or four minute song

530
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: if the music and lyrics are that good, the performance

531
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: is that good, and we're invested up to that point,

532
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: we can see a transformation over the course of a song.

533
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: And when that curtain drops and they emerge again, we

534
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: as the viewer have done any work that we need

535
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: to do that needs to be done here again, our

536
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: imagination fills in the space and so that song like

537
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: no Good you're talking about, how this movie just ping

538
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: pongs between motivations and their feelings. That's how I felt

539
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: watching it. But in the theater. When I take that back,

540
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: No good Deed someone probably already writing in No good

541
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: Deed is a song that's in the musical. There were

542
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: songs that were added. One of them is the Girl

543
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: in the Bubble. It's the Ariana Grande song, It's the

544
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: Glinda tune. No good Deed is definitely in the musical.

545
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: When Alphabe sings no good Deed in the musical, we

546
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,959
Speaker 1: understand that because we understand what's just happened to another

547
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: character in the film, that another character in the musical

548
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: that she has significant feelings for. And so when she says,

549
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: will I attempt to do good again? Ever again? No

550
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: good deed? Will I do again? It carries real weight.

551
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: We don't question her conviction Josh for a second, and

552
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: that tension then sets up the final song and her

553
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: clash with Glinda and that song for good. It all

554
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: works on the screen, though, I think without that space,

555
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: without that space for the audience's imagination to do its work,

556
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: and when you have that story as expansive as this one,

557
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: trying to put all of that together so potently, I

558
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: think the filmmakers the only way they can even come

559
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: close to give us the foundation that we need is

560
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: by adding and adding and adding, they try to fill

561
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: in the blanks with more character and more plot, and

562
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,959
Speaker 1: in the process it just it takes something that is

563
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: designed to work exactly as it does on the stage,

564
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,719
Speaker 1: and it only can on the stage, and it corrupts it.

565
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: I think it corrupts something that the form it only

566
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 1: works where it was made to work.

567
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an incredible test case that probably should be

568
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 2: studied and alongside each other. Again, I'm too far removed moved.

569
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 2: I think I'm less confident that the musical addressed the

570
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 2: concerns I have as successfully as it did for you

571
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 2: in your memory. I do wonder if the theatrical experience

572
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 2: papered over in the condensed time frame, reaching me in

573
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,399
Speaker 2: ways that musicals, in particular big stage productions, with you know,

574
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: set design and the lighting and all these incredibly artistic

575
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,240
Speaker 2: things that can do some of the work you're talking about.

576
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: I'm more inclined now. I had such a bad experience

577
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 2: with this Adam and such a come down from the

578
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 2: first from the part one, which again was not in

579
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 2: my top ten of the year. But I had a

580
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 2: blast with that movie. I thought it was quite a

581
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 2: bit of fun, and so what I'm saying here is

582
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 2: coming out of disappointment, I hope, not like any sort

583
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: of snobbishness, but it is so it was so bad.

584
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 2: It's it's really making me question the integrity of the

585
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: music itself, because I don't have that memory of being

586
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 2: so clued into the emotions and emotional arc of these characters.

587
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 2: I do have remember thinking, oh, Okay, let's see if

588
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 2: they can pull this off, and at the end being like, yeah,

589
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 2: they pulled it off. Some great songs. That was. You know,

590
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 2: that was an impressive theatrical production. I don't remember it

591
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 2: being quite as emotionally coherent, and this movie now makes

592
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 2: me question whether it was at all. Though I agree

593
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: with you there are clear Here's what I agree with

594
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 2: you on. Any addition that has been made that I

595
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 2: can remember as an addition is a subtraction.

596
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 1: Very well said, and this movie does leave a bad

597
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: enough taste in my mouth. And you're convincing enough in

598
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: what you're arguing that I wonder if my memory is

599
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: a little hazy as well. No, I wonder if well

600
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: I will at least say I'm you know, I'll keep it, Josh,

601
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: believe me, I'm not saying I'm I'm actively looking to

602
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 1: displace my memory. But I am saying, of course, that

603
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: I'm open to the idea that if I watched Wicket again,

604
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: of course I might have a different experience with it.

605
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 1: But that's the only one I have to go off of.

606
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: I will bookend this real quick, though, because we've been

607
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: pretty harsh on the movie started with some positives. I

608
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: do have a couple positives to end on.

609
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 2: I like, I got a few, so let's do it.

610
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 1: Okay, good. I really like a moment when we see

611
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: the Bach character, and I really like the performer who

612
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: plays Bach, and maybe you can do me a favor

613
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: because I was lazy, and while I'm talking, you can

614
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 1: look up his name, Josh. But I like the moment

615
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: when he has just left Nessa. He sort of declared

616
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: his independence from her, and before he goes to buy

617
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: a ticket to get on the train, Chu gives us

618
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: a moment where we see him look in a mirror

619
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: and he arranges himself a bit, and he smiles wide

620
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: and he's just very happy with himself. He's beaming with pride,

621
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: and it's it's an odd little moment in a way

622
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: because it's it's certainly not necessary for the plot. He's

623
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: he's there to buy a ticket and get on the

624
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: train and and go. And it's it's a moment where

625
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: you realize, oh, it's it's him finally having sort of

626
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 1: a sense of dignity about himself, as he's now declared

627
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: this independence and he feels good and he thinks he

628
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 1: looks good, and that dignity then in the very next

629
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: second is completely stripped away from him. And that that's

630
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: powerful that and that speaks to this sort of the

631
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: the political relevance that we were talking about as well.

632
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: In moments like that reflect a careful attention to character

633
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 1: and and the emotional underpinning of the story. It gave

634
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 1: me hope for the rest of the movie. And there's

635
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: there's symmetry with Glinda and the mirror in the flashback

636
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,919
Speaker 1: as a girl that we got early on, and other

637
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: characters in the movie throughout looking at their reflections. And

638
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: there is another great mirror during that song the girl

639
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: in the bubble where Grande is singing and it looks

640
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 1: like she's at the end of a long corridor, and

641
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: it really is a beautiful shot just in terms of

642
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 1: the production design and the framing of it, and then

643
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 1: the camera pulls back to reveal that it's actually her

644
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: reflection that we're looking at. And so for a moment

645
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: we see two Glinda's in the shot, and you then

646
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: realize that that initial image that we were holding on,

647
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 1: it's almost as if she's trapped in that. And the

648
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: song's called the Girl in the Bubble. Well, for those

649
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: few moments, it's like the girl in the glass. It's

650
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 1: the girl in this glass encasement, which is the entire point.

651
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 1: It's a really nice visual expression of that. Those are

652
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 1: two really nice moments, and that part is in the

653
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: back half, Josh, when it was all it was all unraveling.

654
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: After I said I was going to say positive things,

655
00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: I am going to give one more negative Josh. After

656
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: the house falls and we get that fight scene.

657
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: Between shot in gladiator style for some reason.

658
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 1: With a little bit of an homage sort of to

659
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: the Matrix or whatever, which feels, you know, one hundred

660
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 1: years old at this point. That that is I honestly

661
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: felt embarrassed watching that scene and how it was constructed

662
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: between Glinda and Alpha. But and it it felt to

663
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 1: me almost like just the way they were talking to

664
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: each other, their expressions, their physicality. It felt to me

665
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: like the movie was trying so hard. And I know

666
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: I'm the wrong demographic to be speaking about this, but

667
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 1: it felt to me like they were trying so hard

668
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: to appeal to their preteen audience that they were crossing

669
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: over into that territory of hello, fellow kids, marketing people

670
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: trying to relate to preteens. That's what it reeked of

671
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 1: in that moment.

672
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 2: It fell to that point that it seemed shot and

673
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 2: filmed for a trailer and not for anything, you know

674
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: that the narrative itself needed. I you know, my positive

675
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 2: oh Ethan Slater, by the way, as Boch.

676
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 1: Thank you, so I appreciate.

677
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, my positive is related to the bubble, Glinda's bubble,

678
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 2: just this whole idea of that. It's it's actually this,

679
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 2: you know, like so many of the Wizard's magic, it's

680
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: this mechanical creation because Glinda is not magical, and the

681
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 2: demonstration that Michelle Yeo is Madam Morrible gives to her.

682
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 2: I thought that was amusing. It brought some lightness. It

683
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 2: was character building for Glinda, where she's learning how to

684
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 2: pop the bubble and then you know, press the thing.

685
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 2: With her foot to make it come back, and and

686
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 2: you know, I think that's the moment in that sequence

687
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 2: as well. Yeah, I think it's here. You know, I

688
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 2: praised Grande so much last year for just making every

689
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 2: gesture hit its mark and do so much work. She

690
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 2: has almost no chances here to do any of that.

691
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 2: In this sequence, she does have just a nice light

692
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 2: touch of Marble's arm of affection that's inappropriate, and I'm like, yeah,

693
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 2: that's what. And there was never a moment like that

694
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 2: again for her in the movie, or many moments between

695
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 2: her and Narrivo honestly in this part. But also she

696
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 2: does have a nice moment which this is character building too.

697
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 2: But this is earlier on Thank Goodness, I couldn't be happier,

698
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 2: I think is the number, and Glinda is singing, but

699
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 2: it's this very like conflicted notion of I couldn't be

700
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 2: happier here to your point, Adam, about how the musical

701
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: does this, this is a good moment where she's singing

702
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: before the people about how happy she is because she's

703
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 2: going to be engaged to Fierro and this, but we

704
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 2: know that there is some conflict we're trying to understand

705
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,879
Speaker 2: to what level of conflict over alphaba there is, and

706
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 2: in the performance of that song is all we really need.

707
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 2: There's enough nuance to what Grande is bringing to the

708
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: singing that we don't need the dialogue that either contradicts

709
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 2: it or isn't delivered as well, or isn't written as well.

710
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,280
Speaker 2: But here's a visual touch during I couldn't be happier

711
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 2: behind Grande. The confetti that's been blown around to celebrate

712
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 2: in this moment. It doesn't quite freeze behind her, but

713
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:21,919
Speaker 2: somehow they slow down the falling of it just as

714
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 2: she's hitting that conflicted section of the song, which is

715
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 2: a beautiful visual rhyme to how she's feeling.

716
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: And can you have melon confetti?

717
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, melancholie confetti? Right, yeah, I mean you know that's

718
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 2: that's that's beautiful stuff. That's good filmmaking. It's a very

719
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 2: nice moment, which I wish we had more of in

720
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 2: Wicked for Good.

721
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: Wicked for Good is playing in wide release. If you

722
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: see it, and it seems like a lot of people

723
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: saw it, Josh, because it did very well at the

724
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: box office, so we might get quite a bit of feedback.

725
00:42:58,080 --> 00:42:59,879
Speaker 1: We would love to hear from you if you agree,

726
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 1: disagree feedback at film spotting dot net. We may share

727
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: some of that feedback on a future show. Movies you

728
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: might be able to check out for free right now

729
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: as a Regal Unlimited member Marty Supreme number nine on

730
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: Alison Wilmore's list an eleven through twenty pick for me

731
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: incredible performance from Timothy Shallomey that is playing right now

732
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: at Regal. And we've talked a little bit about some

733
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 1: of these picks. We've highlighted some of these repertory movies,

734
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: the limited engagements, Josh that Regal has been showing at

735
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 1: some of their theaters, and I'm looking at rgmovies dot

736
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: com and they have a limited engagement right now for

737
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: It's What is it? It's it's fortieth anniversary. It's thirtieth, Okay,

738
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: only thirty years. Shouldn't age it like that thirtieth anniversary

739
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: of a movie. I somehow I can't believe I've been

740
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,160
Speaker 1: mitting this. I have somehow never seen this film, despite

741
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:07,600
Speaker 1: the fact that it stars two incredible actresses, including one

742
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: who I've always claimed to be a huge, huge fan of.

743
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: And I may have to rectify this now by seeing

744
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 1: it on the big screen. Getting a chance to see

745
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: it on the big screen at a Regal Cinema. Sense

746
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: and Sensibility.

747
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 2: Aangling so way to do it.

748
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: Great director too, Kate Winslett, the actress, I'm referring to

749
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: the great Emma Thompson. Never seen Sense and Sensibility And

750
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 1: if you're like me, maybe you're embarrassed about it. Like me,

751
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: you can check that out now at Regal Cinemas and

752
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 1: maybe see it for free with that Regal Unlimited membership.

753
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: Regal Unlimited is the all you can watch movie subscription

754
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: pass that pays for itself in just two visits, and

755
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: Regal is offering film spotting listeners endless movies for less.

756
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: All you have to do is sign up using the

757
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: code film Spot twenty five. That's film Spot twenty five,

758
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: and you'll get ten percent off a three month subscription.

759
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 1: It is the only truly limitless movie subscription pass. And

760
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 1: you don't just save money on tickets, you also save

761
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: on snacks. You get ten percent off all non alcoholic concessions.

762
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: You can see any standard two D movie anytime, no blockout,

763
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,839
Speaker 1: dates or restrictions. We encourage you to sign up now

764
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 1: in the Regal app or just click the link in

765
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 1: this show description and use that code Film spot twenty

766
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: five to receive your discount.

767
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 2: Let's take a moment to thank our Film Spotting family

768
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 2: members Adam and this week we want to thank family

769
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 2: plus member Anthony Migliary from Orland Park, Illinois. Anthony I

770
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 2: had a chance to get to know because he attended

771
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 2: Cinema interrupt Us at the Genesischoo Film Center a while

772
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 2: back when I was doing that. He was there for

773
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 2: the long haul, so joined us every day. Had a

774
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 2: lot of great thoughts to share. It's wonderful to have

775
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 2: your support Anthony here on Film Spotting. If you want

776
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 2: to follow Anthony on letterboxed, he is there. Anthony Miggs

777
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 2: m Igs he wrote in to us to let us

778
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 2: know how we first found the show, said in twenty eleven,

779
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 2: I searched my iPod radio app for a review of Drive.

780
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,280
Speaker 2: That discussion, one of Maddie's last on the show, lit

781
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:23,919
Speaker 2: the fuse for me. Favorite Film Spotting review, Top five

782
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 2: or other segment, Anthony says as a fifth, Oh boy,

783
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 2: wait till you hear this out. As a fifteen year

784
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 2: old trying to drink up as much great cinema as possible,

785
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 2: I poured over the twenty twelve Citan sound episode several times,

786
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 2: do we want to do the math on that or not?

787
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 1: No, I'm going to I'm going to skip that. I'm

788
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: going to skip it. But yeah, you know, we've raised

789
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: a few a few children on movies, Josh over the years.

790
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 2: Apparently we do ask our family members if there's a

791
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 2: review that they think we got wrong. For Anthony, the

792
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:04,839
Speaker 2: sweeping disrespect of Meet Me in Saint Louis, which I think,

793
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 2: and this happens, I think I'm getting lumped in. I

794
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 2: think you have to with your opinion. Now, I'm not

795
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 2: as big a fan as producer Sam. You know, I

796
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 2: appreciate I appreciate Meet Me in Saint Louis. You know,

797
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 2: I'm still to this day perplexed by Tuty, but you know,

798
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: appreciate her. I guess, yeah, yeah, you're the one. You're

799
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 2: the heretic. Yeah, I am the heretic. And Sam definitely

800
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 2: thanks you Anthony for your service. I don't know if

801
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 2: it helps or not, but I actually rewatched Meet Me

802
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 2: in Saint Louis recently because Michael Phillips came to speak

803
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 2: to my film criticism class and we overlapped, you know,

804
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 2: he's the musicals guy, the Minelly guy, and we did

805
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 2: a little overlap crossover with another professor's class that was

806
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 2: about musicals, the movie musical, and they were watching Meet

807
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 2: Me in Saint Louis. So I had to rewatch it,

808
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 2: and I'll just say I enjoyed it more.

809
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it more. In fact, Josh, as we were

810
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: recently discussing having a very very fun spirited debate in

811
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: the film spotting family discord. We were talking about star

812
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: ratings and whether you give the heart or not. That

813
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: was inspired by something you said last week. I gave it.

814
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,879
Speaker 1: I gave it as I do three stars and the heart.

815
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 1: So I like Meet Me in Saint Louis and that

816
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: was a bump up from what I gave it when

817
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 1: we did that as part of our Manelli Marathon review.

818
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,839
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to say this though, that just stopped there.

819
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: That's good, Anthony's happy, just stop. I have I have

820
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: to say it. That fall section with two D everything

821
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 1: that happens with those kids and how is still absolute

822
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: nonsense and it just brings the movie to a complete halt.

823
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 1: And and I defy anyone to tell me otherwise.

824
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 2: How about when she beheads the snow man. I mean

825
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 2: that kid. Kid's got issues. I think I've lost some credit.

826
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 2: I said, meet me in Saint Louis instead of Saint Louis.

827
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:01,479
Speaker 1: You can say both.

828
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 2: No, you can say both. It's all that's good. I

829
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 2: didn't want to lose to Anthony's respect with that. One

830
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 2: more note from Anthony here he did tell us we

831
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 2: always want to hear what favorite book about movies or

832
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:17,359
Speaker 2: movie making? Family members having Anthony great pick here, Matt

833
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 2: Singer's opposable thumbs.

834
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: Can't go wrong there. We do thank Anthony for being

835
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: a family member and for supporting the show all of

836
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 1: those years, even back when he was a wee lad.

837
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: In addition to keeping us doing what we're doing, family

838
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: membership comes with perks like listening early in ad free,

839
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 1: getting our weekly newsletter, and getting to partake in exclusive

840
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 1: opportunities things like that film spotting family Discord, and getting

841
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: monthly bonus shows dropped into their feed. Just today as

842
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: we're recording this Josh film Spotting. Family members got our

843
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 1: November show. The bonus was ask us anything. I think

844
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,320
Speaker 1: we got to seven, eight, nine really good questions?

845
00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 3: Right me?

846
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: You? Producer Sam got personal as those shows are supposed

847
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 1: to be and we are excited to share that or

848
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 1: we were excited to drop that in the feed and

849
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: share that content with everybody, so hopefully they enjoyed it.

850
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: And if you would like to hear that content, sign

851
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 1: up to be a family member.

852
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 3: There were once passageways to the old world, and even

853
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 3: though that old world is gone, you can still feel

854
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 3: the eck of it.

855
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 1: Trained Dreams is set in the rural Pacific Northwest at

856
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: the turn of the twentieth century. Joel Edgerton plays a

857
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 1: logger whose work demands that he traveled far from his wife,

858
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: Gladys played by Felicity Jones, and their young daughter. It's

859
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: adaptive from a twenty eleven novella by Dennis Johnson and

860
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: directed by Clint Bentley, his second as director. He also

861
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,360
Speaker 1: co wrote last year's Sing Sing William H. Macy and

862
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: Kerrie Condon costar Josh. We're gonna have a conversation about

863
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,719
Speaker 1: this year's Golden Brick nominees a little bit later, but

864
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: maybe we should start there. Neither of us saw, at

865
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: least I don't believe either of us saw Bentley's previous film, Jockey.

866
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 1: Is that correct?

867
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 2: Yep? Have never seen it.

868
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 1: Okay, Bentley did get an Oscar nomination for co writing

869
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 1: Sing Sing. It's also kind of hard to know how

870
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 1: many people are watching Train Dreams or are even aware

871
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 1: of it, as it is available exclusively on Netflix. But

872
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 1: let's assume for a moment that it was brick eligible,

873
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: and we're not only thinking about it as a work

874
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 1: by a new or emerging filmmaker, but as a work

875
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:40,839
Speaker 1: by a filmmaker who shows vision or artistic ambition. Would

876
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: it get a nomination from you?

877
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 4: Yeah?

878
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 2: Interesting way to think about it. I haven't been just

879
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 2: because of the acclaim that has been following this film

880
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 2: since it's been showing at festivals. And you know, the

881
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 2: attention to movie gets is one thing we factor in

882
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 2: certainly has its own vision and and even more so

883
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 2: an artistic ambition. So I would agree with that we

884
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 2: can maybe talk in talk a little bit about and

885
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 2: I don't want to start there because I don't think

886
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,320
Speaker 2: it's fair to the movie. But what other visions it

887
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 2: reminds us of, and how it may or may not

888
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 2: distinguish itself from that sort of filmmaking vision. But this

889
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 2: is a special movie. It's a beautiful movie. It's a

890
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 2: quietly sumptuous movie, you know, one that isn't working too

891
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 2: hard to your mouth, doesn't like drop open by the

892
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 2: beauty watching train dreams, but it slowly lowers as the

893
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 2: movie goes on. It's one of those that like sneaks

894
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 2: up on you with the weight of its gorgeousness. And

895
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 2: even saying, you know, gorgeous, I think is pushing things

896
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 2: too far, but it is. How about that shot of

897
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 2: William H. Macy just talking in the woods and the

898
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:56,760
Speaker 2: camera slowly pulls back and we realize like everything around

899
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 2: him is green, but in a different way, and the

900
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 2: movie doesn't like force that at all. So yeah, I

901
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 2: was very much, very much taken with this and Golden

902
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 2: Brick or not, it's definitely, I would say, one of

903
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:18,839
Speaker 2: the movies to make sure you see this year.

904
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel the same way if it was Brick eligible,

905
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: and I think we're going to say it's probably not.

906
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 1: If it was, it would be a tough one to say,

907
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 1: wouldn't be a contender for the Golden Brick. I think

908
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: the actual prize. And I was going to tell you

909
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: a little bit about my experience watching this film. I

910
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: think we're going to overlap in terms of some of

911
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: the descriptors we use, maybe some of the superlatives that

912
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: we use. But my experience watching this movie for the

913
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 1: first time, I did rewatch it for this review because,

914
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,959
Speaker 1: as I've mentioned previously, this was the opening night movie

915
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: of Film Scenes Refocused Film Festival here in Iwa City,

916
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:02,320
Speaker 1: and that was back on our October seventh, packed house

917
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,879
Speaker 1: at this really lovely old theater here in i Was City.

918
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 1: The Anglert, Michael Phillips and I and we're sitting pretty

919
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: close to the screen. We got there a little bit late,

920
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: so maybe we're in like the fourth row, so you're

921
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: already enveloped by the height of the screen. And then

922
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 1: this ethereal movie begins that almost invites you into its

923
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 1: world with a shot that moves from the darkness of

924
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:33,479
Speaker 1: a tunnel into the light, and this movie that wants

925
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: to envelop you with these beautiful magic hour shots of

926
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 1: nature and the tallness of trees that make the at

927
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:49,720
Speaker 1: times intense human dramas unfolding below them seem almost insignificant.

928
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: But those dramas are significant, and you can sense that

929
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 1: some people in the theater are having quite profound emotional reactions.

930
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 1: And your move two It's one of those movies that

931
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 1: makes you go poke your head inside your kids rooms

932
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: when you get home, maybe sit down and kiss their

933
00:55:10,239 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 1: forehead while they're sleeping. And that the you in this case,

934
00:55:15,719 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 1: of course, is me. That's the experience I had with

935
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: this film, Josh. Now, maybe the next day I go

936
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 1: to letterboxed and into my feed pops the review of

937
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:34,800
Speaker 1: someone I know who was at the same showing, and

938
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: judging from their two star rating, they saw the movie differently. Somehow.

939
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:46,320
Speaker 1: Their six word review is enough to give me pause,

940
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 1: and it's enough to make me rethink for a moment

941
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 1: my entire experience. And this is the review. These are

942
00:55:55,000 --> 00:56:02,840
Speaker 1: the six words bro sat down for forty years. That's it. Okay.

943
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: So I want to give a shout out to Grace

944
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: at Film Scene, who works there and who wrote that review.

945
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 1: If you want to follow her on letterbox, I encourage

946
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 1: you to do so. It's at Grace m eighty three

947
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 1: and she's a very passionate cinephile, very smart cinephile. If

948
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,720
Speaker 1: you haven't seen Trained Dreams yet, that won't make much sense,

949
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: and even if you have, you might not get why

950
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:29,479
Speaker 1: that zinger would carry any weight with me. I just thought,

951
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 1: if you did want to cut this movie off at

952
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 1: the knees. First of all, factually she's not really wrong,

953
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 1: But in six words, Grace got it how the movie

954
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 1: might just be a bunch of very poetically rendered hocum

955
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: asking you to invest your time and emotional energy in

956
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:51,560
Speaker 1: someone who is arguably the least interesting man in the world.

957
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 1: His intellectual curiosity, what little he displays is pointed almost

958
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:03,319
Speaker 1: completely inward. I process that it wasn't enough to undo

959
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 1: my initial experience with the movie, and then upon second

960
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: viewing Josh I connected with the film even more the

961
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: way Bentley renders Idaho and this way of life around

962
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: the turn of the twentieth century in such a mystical

963
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: and mysterious way that it almost seems like science fiction.

964
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 1: You know, you have that opening narration by Will Patton

965
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:29,080
Speaker 1: where he says there were once passageways to the old Way.

966
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 1: Even though that has been rolled up like a scroll

967
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: and put somewhere, you can still feel the echo of it,

968
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 1: you know, if that is, if that is hokem, And

969
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,040
Speaker 1: to be clear, that's a word I'm introducing, and I

970
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 1: think now that's maybe the first time in the show's

971
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 1: history hocum maybe has ever been used, and it's been

972
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: used twice in this episode. Now Grace didn't use it.

973
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: I don't know whether any critics have used it. It

974
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 1: just feels appropriately old timing, and that's why I'm using it.

975
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 1: If it is, it's the exact kind of nonsense. I

976
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:00,640
Speaker 1: guess I just needed more need from cinema every now

977
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 1: and again. I just wanted to lose myself in this world.

978
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: I wanted to get on the movie's meditative rhythm. I

979
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 1: wanted to be unmoored by this movie. And we can

980
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 1: talk about in more detail how this movie did with

981
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 1: its with its cinematography. Largely because of its cinematography, unmore me,

982
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 1: it disoriented me in the best possible way.

983
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 2: So hokum looking this up, Miriam Webster a device used

984
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 2: as by Showman to evoke a desired audience response. And

985
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 2: in the context of Train Dreams, you know, I would

986
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 2: say my sense of the film, and we get in

987
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 2: tricky territory here. I like to talk about movies as

988
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 2: their own entities, separate from their creators and the teams

989
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 2: that had made them. And I think Train Dreams believes

990
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 2: in itself, and so then you can extend that and say,

991
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 2: I think the filmmakers believe in it. And I think

992
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 2: if you've seen Sing Sing you know Which, which, as

993
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 2: you mentioned, Bentley co wrote, I think that movie. If

994
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 2: anyone does have reservations about it, they may, they may not.

995
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 2: We're both big fans. I think it believed in its project.

996
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't think that's a criticism. I could

997
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 2: see being leveled at Train Dreams. Now, whether it's belief

998
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 2: in itself is something that moves you is a completely,

999
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:30,439
Speaker 2: you know, different question, And I could see this goes

1000
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 2: back to the malick of it all if we want

1001
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 2: to get there. I could see if you are seeing

1002
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 2: the movie as trying to work in that vein and

1003
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 2: not doing it quite as successfully, that you might come

1004
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 2: away with a bad experience. I can see the reservations

1005
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 2: about Train Dreams, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

1006
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 2: I don't think this is one that I feel like

1007
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 2: everyone should have the same experience with. It was not

1008
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 2: as transcend and for me, I think, as it has

1009
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 2: been for some other people, even as I did appreciate

1010
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 2: what it's doing. And maybe we can get into that later.

1011
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 2: But I want to go back to why it did

1012
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 2: work for me and touch on a different thing. In

1013
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:15,040
Speaker 2: agreement with everything you said about why it moved you

1014
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 2: the way it did. I think it's handling of time

1015
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 2: is quite special and very accomplished and very difficult to achieve,

1016
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 2: incredibly difficult to achieve, and the result of that, which

1017
01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 2: I'll talk about how I think they did it, but

1018
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 2: the result of it for me is that I was

1019
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:40,560
Speaker 2: transported to a different experience of a lifetime. And you

1020
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 2: know this Joel Edgerton character, Robert Greenier, his life in

1021
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 2: this movie seems to like go like that, like a snap,

1022
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 2: and yet sitting there it feels like it's still going

1023
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:58,959
Speaker 2: on and might never end while you're watching the movie.

1024
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 2: And how it manages to evoke both like just instant

1025
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 2: loss and then eternity at once, I think is really

1026
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 2: special and really difficult to do. And that has a

1027
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 2: lot to do with not only the imagery and the choices,

1028
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 2: but the score by Bryce Dessner and the editing by

1029
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 2: Parker Laramie, because they are working in concert so that

1030
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 2: this movie is one piece, flowing from a sequence to

1031
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 2: the next, and it is manipulating time in that way,

1032
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 2: so we never feel like this is grainyear's youth, this

1033
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 2: is his marriage, this is his old age, and flashbacks

1034
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 2: jump back and forth. We're just it feels like you're

1035
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 2: on a brook that's just flowing, and it's this guy's life.

1036
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 2: And other films have managed this, But again, I think

1037
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 2: the degree of difficulty to pull that off is incredible,

1038
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 2: and for training Dreams to do that is a huge,

1039
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 2: huge accomplishment, And I think that captures why we both

1040
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 2: had this experience of immersiveness and and being captured, because

1041
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 2: it's not just what we're watching, it's how for us

1042
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 2: who have felt it this way, the experience of time

1043
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 2: has actually been transformed.

1044
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's very well put. I I do

1045
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 1: want to go back and clarify the way I'm using

1046
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 1: hocum here is less about the filmmakers and their lack

1047
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: of conviction perhaps, and it's more about just is the

1048
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 1: film as profound as it seems to be or as

1049
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 1: it wants? Yeah, and and and specifically talking about this

1050
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,880
Speaker 1: goes back to what Gray said, right, and that six word,

1051
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 1: six word sentence there is you have a character who

1052
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,200
Speaker 1: only moderately if you look at the expanse of his

1053
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 1: life that the movie shows us only moderately seems to

1054
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 1: actually have any interest in the outside world, and so

1055
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:03,960
Speaker 1: using him as this folkrum to explore the larger questions

1056
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 1: of the meaning of life in the universe, maybe, for

1057
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: lack of a better word, it seems a little disingenuous

1058
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 1: or a little bit absurd. And so that's where that's

1059
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 1: where I'm going to this word hokum. I ultimately still

1060
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 1: fall on the side of being again quite moved by

1061
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 1: the film and still enjoyed really thinking about those questions

1062
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 1: in relation to Grainier as a character. And as I said,

1063
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 1: I enjoyed losing myself and being immersed in this world.

1064
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 1: And one of the ways we get immersed in this world.

1065
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 1: This goes back to the opening, but we see it

1066
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 1: throughout the film. Some of this technique use Josh Is

1067
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 1: there's part of that montage where I love the technique here.

1068
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about the cinematographer here some more. But

1069
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 1: the DP he's worked with. I think he worked with

1070
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 1: him on Jockey as well. I want to make sure

1071
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 1: I get his name right. Adolfo. I know I had

1072
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: it in front of me here. I apologize. Is it Vasovo?

1073
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 1: I think it's Adulpho Vasovo, I'll correct that if I'm wrong, Voloso, Okay,

1074
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 1: thank you. So in that in that montage we see

1075
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:18,919
Speaker 1: there there's Robert and another man sawing a huge, huge log,

1076
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 1: huge part of a tree. And the way the camera

1077
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:28,440
Speaker 1: moves almost in sync with with the saw it it

1078
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 1: of course jogs you, of course as well as as

1079
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:36,160
Speaker 1: a viewer. And then when we go to another another shot,

1080
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 1: it's quick, but it disorients you. And then you see

1081
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 1: a giant tree fall, but it's from the perspective. It's

1082
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 1: as if the camera is mounted to a part of

1083
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 1: the tree, like a lower part of the tree, as

1084
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 1: it topples. And after that, Grainier is standing against a

1085
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 1: giant tree and he seems comfortable, and the shot is static.

1086
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 1: But if you, if you watch closely, you notice that

1087
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 1: it's just a little wobbly. The shot is just a

1088
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 1: little wobbly, like it's not on a tripod, which most

1089
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 1: of this film, if not all of it, seems like it.

1090
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 1: It isn't on sticks, and so all of it just

1091
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 1: combines for this this woozy effect, this little woozy effect,

1092
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 1: like it's all a memory unfolding, which I think goes

1093
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: back to your point about time and how it's handled here,

1094
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 1: and I think that that that then combines really neatly

1095
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,920
Speaker 1: with the aspect ratio of this film. If you notice,

1096
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 1: it's it's not widescreen, it's it's three by two, So

1097
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 1: it's not really as gorgeous as it is with the

1098
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 1: natural lighting and the magic hour shots and the color.

1099
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 1: It's not really about the grandeur of nature, even as

1100
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: it does capture all that beauty and draw our eyes

1101
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:51,440
Speaker 1: to it. It's always about, it seemed to me, connecting

1102
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 1: man to nature. And it's the same ratios as photographs,

1103
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 1: so it feels like you're looking at old photos. And

1104
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 1: there are even some shots when when you can pull

1105
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 1: this off as a as a cinematographer, it's really something.

1106
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 1: There are some shots and I especially notice this near

1107
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 1: the end when he's he's inside his cabin and we

1108
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 1: see Grainier sitting there, which he does a lot, and

1109
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:21,160
Speaker 1: and he's sitting there looking out his window, and there's

1110
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:22,760
Speaker 1: a great moment where there's just a cut and we

1111
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 1: see the passage of time. Josh. We don't know how long,

1112
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 1: but it's clear that just with that jump cut, many

1113
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:31,920
Speaker 1: years have passed, and it really does it feels like

1114
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:34,160
Speaker 1: looking at it, it feels like you could reach out

1115
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 1: and touch the frame and feel it, like you'd feel

1116
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 1: the roughness of the frame if you if you did,

1117
01:06:40,840 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 1: it's a tableau that that it's as if it I

1118
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 1: think that that texture I'm referring to and feeling it,

1119
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:50,959
Speaker 1: it's because it looks like something a Dutch Master would

1120
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 1: have would have painted somehow. And and here again I'll

1121
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 1: just praise you know, the the DP and Bentley for

1122
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 1: being able to to that off. But Josh, you mentioned

1123
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 1: pulling back on Macy. There's an entire sequence for a

1124
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 1: moment of it's just maybe ten seconds where Macy's talking

1125
01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 1: where I think it's almost entirely constructed on zooms in

1126
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:18,240
Speaker 1: and zooms out, and we don't see a lot of

1127
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 1: films that use zooms anymore. There may be occasional uses

1128
01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:25,680
Speaker 1: of tracks as well. It is hard at times to

1129
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 1: tell whether or not it is a zoom versus a

1130
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:32,160
Speaker 1: tracking shot, but they felt to me like zooms, which

1131
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:35,120
Speaker 1: Altman used to use quite a bit as well. The

1132
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:39,680
Speaker 1: zoom though there's something about that shot which again it

1133
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:43,920
Speaker 1: feels like more like eyes. It feels less like a

1134
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 1: camera doing a trick, and it feels more like your

1135
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:52,040
Speaker 1: eyes focusing in on something, and something about that immediacy

1136
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 1: adds a different effect. And you talked about time handled

1137
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: in this movie too. There's there's a moment I loved

1138
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:05,280
Speaker 1: early in the movie where they're talking about a bridge

1139
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 1: that he helped build, and then we just jump ahead

1140
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,520
Speaker 1: into the future for a moment where the voiceover tells

1141
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 1: us that many years later Robert would would say the

1142
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:20,080
Speaker 1: bridge that would be constructed years after that, and just

1143
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:24,200
Speaker 1: that notion that when we do see him later, we

1144
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 1: see him later on that same train, on that same bridge,

1145
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:30,760
Speaker 1: but it jumps ahead and it just tells us about

1146
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 1: the fleetingness of time, all that work and all that effort,

1147
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 1: and it meant something, but in a way it didn't.

1148
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:40,439
Speaker 1: The futility of that work and the effort and the

1149
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:43,519
Speaker 1: way time folds in on itself there. And I do

1150
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 1: want to close with this on it just in terms

1151
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 1: of the cinematography, Josh and praising it here, because I'm

1152
01:08:50,200 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 1: sure this is I'm going to guess this is what

1153
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:54,759
Speaker 1: you were alluding to earlier when you said something about

1154
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:58,759
Speaker 1: other people's work that it reminds us of Malick. Seems

1155
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,680
Speaker 1: like the obvious touch point because it's hard. It's hard

1156
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 1: to watch any filmmaker use especially magic hour shots and

1157
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:11,360
Speaker 1: voiceover and not think about Terrence Malick. But I did

1158
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 1: come across something where Veloso was talking about influences on

1159
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:20,600
Speaker 1: this film, and I don't I'm not gonna do this

1160
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 1: to you because I don't think it'd be fair. I

1161
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:24,400
Speaker 1: don't think there's any way you would guess the movie

1162
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:27,120
Speaker 1: if I made you. But as soon as I tell you,

1163
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 1: you will say, of course, because it's probably the last time,

1164
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:36,639
Speaker 1: or certainly one of the most significant times on the show,

1165
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:40,000
Speaker 1: both of us focused on, I mean, really focused on

1166
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:46,360
Speaker 1: how the director and cinematographer shot Nature. It's going back

1167
01:09:46,400 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 1: a bit and it's from one of our marathons. I said,

1168
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:51,479
Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna make a guess, but do you want

1169
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 1: to throw out a guess of a movie or a

1170
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:58,960
Speaker 1: director where we really focused on Nature, that the movie

1171
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 1: that was the main influence Veloso said on this film.

1172
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 2: As soon as I heard, I said, of course, I

1173
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:09,560
Speaker 2: mean it's the wrong answer, But you know, Tarkovsky is

1174
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 2: where my mind is going. But that's because that's you know,

1175
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 2: in the Malik Vein.

1176
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 1: Mirror, you got it Okay, Tarkovska mirror, Mirror, I mean

1177
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 1: my my notes on Mirror. The thing I focused on

1178
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:24,880
Speaker 1: was the way the wind blew and the sense that

1179
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 1: Tarkovsky almost was like summoning that wind as it blew

1180
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:31,360
Speaker 1: through the trees and the leaves, The way nature, the

1181
01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 1: way Tarkovsky used nature in that film. Seeing Veloso say

1182
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 1: that that mirror was there there touchstone for this movie,

1183
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:41,599
Speaker 1: it all of a sudden, just it made it made

1184
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:47,320
Speaker 1: perfect sense. So the the the way that they use time,

1185
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:50,479
Speaker 1: the way that they use light, the way that they

1186
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,520
Speaker 1: use like I said, the way they use different techniques,

1187
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:57,560
Speaker 1: like like Zoom's variety, a variety of different techniques to

1188
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:01,240
Speaker 1: disorient us, but in the best, in the best way

1189
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 1: possible to take us out of time as viewers and

1190
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,280
Speaker 1: get us off our normal rhythms. That's what I appreciated

1191
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 1: about this film.

1192
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:12,880
Speaker 2: Let me return to the Tarkowsky of it, because that

1193
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 2: does connect, and I want to bring in the Malick

1194
01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 2: of it as well. But I do want to go

1195
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:19,200
Speaker 2: back and just talk a little bit about the character

1196
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 2: of Robert Grainier. And I don't think this contradicts anything

1197
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:23,720
Speaker 2: you were saying, but just to spend a little more

1198
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 2: time on it, actually, because it's true, it's undeniable that

1199
01:11:28,479 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 2: this is I don't know that he's a passive character.

1200
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:33,720
Speaker 2: But let's say the movie leans more heavily on the

1201
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:37,719
Speaker 2: voiceover narration, which I'm assuming is drawn from the novella.

1202
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:41,920
Speaker 2: This is based on the Dennis Johnson novella. It leans

1203
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 2: more heavily on that to tell us about this man

1204
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 2: that a traditional performance might right in terms of dialogue.

1205
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 2: So two things I want to say about that. I

1206
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:57,840
Speaker 2: think Edgerton is astonishing here in creating a full man

1207
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 2: out of like hmmm and hmm.

1208
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:05,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, huh, it's a.

1209
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:10,360
Speaker 2: Lot of that, and it could be comical and just

1210
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:16,160
Speaker 2: uninteresting to me. I always knew this guy's mind was worrying.

1211
01:12:16,479 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 2: I don't think he's a guy who was just you know,

1212
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:23,560
Speaker 2: letting the time tick by. I think he was a

1213
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 2: deep thinker. I think he was a quiet thinker and

1214
01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:33,559
Speaker 2: maybe a simple thinker and simple thinker. Simple thinking can

1215
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:36,120
Speaker 2: be deep. I guess that is one thing I took

1216
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 2: away from this movie. I think it's crucial that this

1217
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 2: is just some logger who ended up trying to make

1218
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:47,840
Speaker 2: a living and you know, didn't aspire too much more

1219
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:54,240
Speaker 2: and maybe didn't have grander thoughts, but was still sitting

1220
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:59,000
Speaker 2: there and pondering what perhaps it all meant. And the

1221
01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 2: voiceover communicates this more than the performance does. That that's

1222
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 2: a choice, and I do. I just didn't want to

1223
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:09,719
Speaker 2: overlook Edgerton in the way that I think he's maybe

1224
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 2: he's able to really bring this man to life in

1225
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:15,479
Speaker 2: that way. Now, this does bring us to the Malik

1226
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:18,920
Speaker 2: and the to a bit the Tarkovsky did. Tarkowsky didn't

1227
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:20,680
Speaker 2: come to mind to me until you just brought that up.

1228
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:22,439
Speaker 2: But I see it, and I think it makes sense,

1229
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:24,600
Speaker 2: especially in terms of some of the imagery. But it

1230
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 2: also brings us back to the profound question, which which

1231
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:29,760
Speaker 2: I think is the word you brought up earlier. And

1232
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 2: maybe this is where connected to the hokum question and

1233
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:37,040
Speaker 2: the maybe why there is a gap for some folks,

1234
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 2: because I would consider Train Dreams to be a very

1235
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:43,840
Speaker 2: good and I do not mean this as a slight

1236
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:48,160
Speaker 2: at all. I mean it as a distinction good starter Malik,

1237
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:52,120
Speaker 2: and by that I mean think about the voiceover narration.

1238
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 2: First of all, Okay, it's more explanatory here. We get

1239
01:13:57,320 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 2: our bearings, what bearings we have mostly from that voiced

1240
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:05,760
Speaker 2: over narration. If you think about the narrative itself is

1241
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 2: more linear. It does flow in this unique and difficult

1242
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:12,800
Speaker 2: to capture way, but it's quite linear. There's a few

1243
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:15,680
Speaker 2: flashbacks here and there. We always know where we are

1244
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:19,840
Speaker 2: in this story. Compared to say, Malik, the characters are

1245
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:22,920
Speaker 2: more readable. We just talked about that this is not

1246
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:26,400
Speaker 2: a guy who were ever confused about you know, where

1247
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 2: he's at in a given scene. And the other thing,

1248
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 2: which relates to Tarkovsky, the Christian concerns are they're just

1249
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:36,360
Speaker 2: far more slight if they're here at all, right, And

1250
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:40,479
Speaker 2: that is not good or bad, but I think it

1251
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:48,280
Speaker 2: does add a level of complication and consideration that Train

1252
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:51,080
Speaker 2: Dreams might not have in being what I took to

1253
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 2: be deeply humanist, but gesturing towards these ideas. It goes

1254
01:14:57,400 --> 01:14:59,439
Speaker 2: back to that opening narration you talked about, you know,

1255
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 2: an earlier time or the scrolls, and you know it's

1256
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:09,600
Speaker 2: gesturing to these ideas of things beyond this world. But

1257
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 2: yet at the end of this movie, it's all about

1258
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:16,080
Speaker 2: this is where things end up. Is how I took

1259
01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:18,800
Speaker 2: it right. And I want to be clear, I'm not

1260
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:21,439
Speaker 2: criticizing the movie on this, but I'm thinking I do

1261
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:28,479
Speaker 2: mean it's operating at a level of somehow less mystery

1262
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:33,639
Speaker 2: than both Malik and Tarkovsky are interested in plunging us into.

1263
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:39,280
Speaker 2: And maybe that's some of the reception it's getting where

1264
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:42,120
Speaker 2: that it's not as you know, those who might accuse

1265
01:15:42,160 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 2: it of not as being as profound as it thinks

1266
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:46,439
Speaker 2: it is. I'm not saying that, but I wonder if

1267
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:50,240
Speaker 2: that's tied into that sort of reaction. Does that make

1268
01:15:50,280 --> 01:15:50,800
Speaker 2: any sense?

1269
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:54,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. I think it is absolutely fair to

1270
01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:56,920
Speaker 1: say it is not working on the same level of

1271
01:15:57,080 --> 01:16:03,240
Speaker 1: mystery as the work of those two filmmakers, and it

1272
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 1: probably does, or it almost certainly has something to do

1273
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 1: with the spiritual concerns or lack of spiritual concerns here.

1274
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:17,040
Speaker 1: Humanist is a good way to put the level that

1275
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:21,880
Speaker 1: this film is working on. And I felt, and I

1276
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:23,679
Speaker 1: don't know if I want to say it, partly because

1277
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:28,920
Speaker 1: it gets into spoiler territory, but also because this movie

1278
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:31,400
Speaker 1: does have a chance right now of making my top ten.

1279
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:33,559
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's going to, but it has

1280
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:37,880
Speaker 1: a chance. Yeah, And because it has a chance, I

1281
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:40,439
Speaker 1: kind of want to save this point for the end,

1282
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:42,680
Speaker 1: but then again maybe or for the end of the year,

1283
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 1: But then again, maybe it won't and I'll just end

1284
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,880
Speaker 1: up sitting on this. But there was something about the

1285
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 1: very end of the film and this ending montage that

1286
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:57,040
Speaker 1: of course I saw. I saw in the theater the

1287
01:16:57,080 --> 01:17:00,800
Speaker 1: first time, and it worked. It worked for me, but

1288
01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:03,519
Speaker 1: I don't know that that even as I left the

1289
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,719
Speaker 1: theater very moved it. I don't know that it worked

1290
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:10,479
Speaker 1: on me on the level that that the movie necessarily

1291
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:15,320
Speaker 1: wanted it to. And actually, oddly, sitting at home watching

1292
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:18,760
Speaker 1: it on TV the second time, I felt it more, Josh.

1293
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:22,679
Speaker 1: And it's because I latched onto something that I didn't

1294
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:27,679
Speaker 1: latch onto the first time. I I connected with something

1295
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:30,639
Speaker 1: in the text that I didn't see the first time.

1296
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:34,000
Speaker 1: So I'm interested in sharing that, but again I don't

1297
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 1: really want to share it here necessarily. I do see

1298
01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 1: your point about the narration. I do think it's more.

1299
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 1: I do think it's more matter of fact, and I

1300
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 1: think it's there to fill in some exposition or some

1301
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:46,559
Speaker 1: points it needs.

1302
01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:49,840
Speaker 2: To go way and lovely and Will oh my gosh.

1303
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, Will Patten's and he he was there at opening night,

1304
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 1: longtime friend of Dennis Johnson, So it meant something very

1305
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:01,479
Speaker 1: personal to him to to read it and to do it.

1306
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:03,679
Speaker 1: And I just feel like you probably sense that even

1307
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:08,240
Speaker 1: just listening to it is absolutely so wonderful reading this.

1308
01:18:09,040 --> 01:18:13,360
Speaker 5: His name was Robert Grainyer, and he lived more than

1309
01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:16,479
Speaker 5: eighty years in and around the town of Bonnard's Fairy, Idaho.

1310
01:18:18,720 --> 01:18:21,960
Speaker 5: In his time, he traveled west within a few dozen

1311
01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:25,639
Speaker 5: miles of the Pacific, so he'd never seen the ocean itself,

1312
01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 5: and as far east as the town of Libby, forty

1313
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:30,680
Speaker 5: miles inside Montana.

1314
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:40,040
Speaker 1: Your point to about grainierd and Edjutant's performance, The thing

1315
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:42,639
Speaker 1: that I do think is most important when it comes

1316
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:47,599
Speaker 1: to whether or not he's the right vehicle for these

1317
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:53,240
Speaker 1: profound questions is do you believe what the voiceover is

1318
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:57,680
Speaker 1: saying about him? And the longing for meaning that the

1319
01:18:57,840 --> 01:19:03,160
Speaker 1: character expresses. He doesn't necessarily express it, but the voiceover

1320
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:05,760
Speaker 1: expresses the form yep and and the question is do

1321
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:09,560
Speaker 1: you do you believe it? And I believed it. I

1322
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:12,640
Speaker 1: believe I believed it all the talk of searching for

1323
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:17,000
Speaker 1: meaning and and sometimes there are moments there there are

1324
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:20,479
Speaker 1: some moments where he he he expresses it, or or

1325
01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:23,400
Speaker 1: there are sentences almost that he's able to get out

1326
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:26,559
Speaker 1: that that you understand, are about the closest he's ever

1327
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:30,040
Speaker 1: going to get to to posing those questions. And and

1328
01:19:30,120 --> 01:19:31,880
Speaker 1: I did because of ageotis performance.

1329
01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:34,760
Speaker 2: Think about our say talking about you know things are

1330
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 2: going to save There's there's a most moving moment contender

1331
01:19:38,280 --> 01:19:42,960
Speaker 2: for a rap party involving Edgerton, and here we're talking

1332
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:46,360
Speaker 2: about this guy who hardly talks, who talks, grunts and

1333
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:50,080
Speaker 2: who and yet when it calls for it, I like

1334
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:53,680
Speaker 2: he for me, he brought like like, oh, there's a

1335
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:56,400
Speaker 2: peek into this guy's soul and there's a lot going

1336
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:57,800
Speaker 2: on there. Yeah.

1337
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:00,160
Speaker 1: The thing is, I guess this is a testament to

1338
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:03,519
Speaker 1: the performance and the movie. You saying that I can

1339
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:06,160
Speaker 1: think of like three options. I'm not sure which moment

1340
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:09,120
Speaker 1: you're talking about. Yeah, yeah, so I'll be curious to

1341
01:20:09,200 --> 01:20:12,559
Speaker 1: hear off air which moment. That is another thing I'll

1342
01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:15,280
Speaker 1: say a little cryptically that maybe we can get into

1343
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:18,720
Speaker 1: another time when we're talking about this movie more is.

1344
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 1: I haven't read the novella, but Will Patton talked from

1345
01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:30,040
Speaker 1: the stage and he was there with Sidney Johnson, Dennis's wife.

1346
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:35,519
Speaker 1: They talked about there where the original novella ends, and

1347
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:38,400
Speaker 1: then the novella ends. I'm not going to spoil it,

1348
01:20:38,520 --> 01:20:42,679
Speaker 1: but the novella ends with a moment that we actually

1349
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:46,120
Speaker 1: see on screen in the movie, and it's a moment

1350
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:48,280
Speaker 1: that happens near the end of the film, but isn't

1351
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:51,639
Speaker 1: the end of the film. And I almost wish josh

1352
01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:55,720
Speaker 1: I hadn't heard that, because now there's a part of

1353
01:20:55,840 --> 01:21:04,439
Speaker 1: me that wishes that moment had gotten more gotten, more attention,

1354
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 1: had been explored more. It's it's a very small moment.

1355
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:12,200
Speaker 1: It's a very and actually, here saying it, it might

1356
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:13,760
Speaker 1: be one of the moment, it might be the moment

1357
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:17,040
Speaker 1: you're thinking of for all I know. But the movie still,

1358
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:20,400
Speaker 1: the movie still treats it. It's it's quick, it's it's

1359
01:21:20,439 --> 01:21:24,720
Speaker 1: a short moment, and it's actually the it's it's the

1360
01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 1: it's the apotheosis, it's the climax. It's where the story

1361
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:32,840
Speaker 1: leaves you. Apparently the novella leaves you on that emotional note,

1362
01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:36,200
Speaker 1: and I wonder what that would have been like had

1363
01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:38,640
Speaker 1: the movie left us there as well as it is.

1364
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:42,559
Speaker 1: The movie creates an ending that, as I said, I'm

1365
01:21:42,640 --> 01:21:45,959
Speaker 1: still thinking about and and ultimately felt like I unlocked

1366
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:48,439
Speaker 1: a little bit, and I know, based on our discord,

1367
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 1: is also moving a lot of people as well. So

1368
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 1: train dreams. Look forward to talking about that one more,

1369
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:59,280
Speaker 1: thinking about that one more. It is out now exclusively

1370
01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:00,679
Speaker 1: on Netflix.

1371
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:04,479
Speaker 4: This episode is brought to you by Peloton. Break through

1372
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:06,960
Speaker 4: the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton

1373
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:10,720
Speaker 4: Cross Training tread Plus powered by Peloton Iq. With real

1374
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:13,840
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1375
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:17,040
Speaker 4: your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your

1376
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:20,800
Speaker 4: goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, scold, to

1377
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 4: push and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training tread

1378
01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:28,880
Speaker 4: Plus at one Peloton dot com. Go Yes, Go, No, Okay, okay.

1379
01:22:29,479 --> 01:22:32,240
Speaker 3: We are putting on a production of Hamlet in GTA

1380
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:33,800
Speaker 3: online for the first time ever.

1381
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:37,840
Speaker 2: We are looking for actors, so I'm an audition. Please

1382
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:44,560
Speaker 2: try to stop us. Stop mother, Oh they got me.

1383
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:50,000
Speaker 1: That's a clip from what I believe was our first

1384
01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:53,479
Speaker 1: Golden Brick nominee of twenty twenty five. The movie is

1385
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:57,600
Speaker 1: Grand Theft Hamlet. You nominated it, Josh, you saw it.

1386
01:22:57,920 --> 01:23:00,760
Speaker 1: I hadn't seen it when you nominated it, but I

1387
01:23:00,920 --> 01:23:04,760
Speaker 1: did eventually watch it, and I think we both put

1388
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:07,760
Speaker 1: it on our top five films of twenty twenty five

1389
01:23:08,200 --> 01:23:12,160
Speaker 1: so far. That was in July. Does it have a

1390
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:14,599
Speaker 1: shot of making the top ten here in December?

1391
01:23:15,240 --> 01:23:18,200
Speaker 2: Not only that, I've been singing its praises here part

1392
01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:21,800
Speaker 2: of my theology. In the arts program, we had a

1393
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:26,080
Speaker 2: seminar on video games, and we'll get into it when

1394
01:23:26,080 --> 01:23:28,599
Speaker 2: we talk about Grand Theft Hamilet a little bit more,

1395
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:30,880
Speaker 2: but it is about video games. I've been trying to

1396
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:32,680
Speaker 2: spread the word as we're going to try to do

1397
01:23:33,320 --> 01:23:35,679
Speaker 2: yes here right now, not only for a Grand Theft Hamlet,

1398
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:39,559
Speaker 2: but a bunch of underseen, we think under praised films

1399
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:40,559
Speaker 2: of the year so far.

1400
01:23:40,800 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 1: That's it. That's where the Golden Brick comes from. I

1401
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:45,880
Speaker 1: don't even know at this point, what was it the

1402
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:48,800
Speaker 1: eleventh year of the Golden Brick. It all started as

1403
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:53,439
Speaker 1: an enterprise or that. Yeah, yeah, maybe you're right.

1404
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:54,240
Speaker 2: It is more than that.

1405
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:57,840
Speaker 1: It absolutely is more than that. The goal is, or

1406
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:01,760
Speaker 1: always has been, to shine a spotlight on movies that

1407
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:06,360
Speaker 1: are underseen, maybe underappreciated. But they do have to be

1408
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:10,640
Speaker 1: movies that come from a new or emerging filmmaker. They

1409
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:14,360
Speaker 1: have to show real vision, real creativity. As we referenced

1410
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:19,080
Speaker 1: earlier in the show, Artistic Ambition, Grand Theft Hamlet Josh

1411
01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:23,040
Speaker 1: a movie where it all takes place inside the world

1412
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:25,400
Speaker 1: of Grand Theft Auto and they're trying to put on

1413
01:24:25,479 --> 01:24:28,080
Speaker 1: a production of Hamlet. Yeah, I think that qualifies. Just

1414
01:24:28,439 --> 01:24:31,880
Speaker 1: just saying the premise tells you that the movie qualifies,

1415
01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:35,160
Speaker 1: that the movie works at all is astonishing, and it

1416
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:36,880
Speaker 1: works very well.

1417
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:40,320
Speaker 2: It works incredibly well. And that's the point. It's like,

1418
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:42,280
Speaker 2: it's not just a great idea. We're kind of back

1419
01:24:42,280 --> 01:24:44,599
Speaker 2: to Wicked for good here. It's not just like, let's

1420
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:49,200
Speaker 2: make the witch the hero. This is like an intriguing concept,

1421
01:24:49,439 --> 01:24:53,760
Speaker 2: but it's executed, the vision is carried through, especially for

1422
01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:56,519
Speaker 2: a filmmaker who's on there first or maybe you know,

1423
01:24:56,640 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 2: second or even third film, but haven't built up this

1424
01:24:59,200 --> 01:25:02,320
Speaker 2: really strong body of work. So yeah, Grand Theft Hamlet.

1425
01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:05,840
Speaker 2: We want to mention directors here, Penny Grills and Sam Crane,

1426
01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:11,720
Speaker 2: and it is available exclusively on movie so there is

1427
01:25:12,240 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 2: where to find it if you'd like to do that.

1428
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:18,240
Speaker 2: Another nominee I threw in here earlier in the year

1429
01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:22,880
Speaker 2: was Gazer, directed by Ryan J. Sloan. I nominated this

1430
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:25,920
Speaker 2: on show one thousand and eight. It is available on

1431
01:25:26,200 --> 01:25:30,880
Speaker 2: vod and this one, Just Real Quick is kind of

1432
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:35,080
Speaker 2: a low fi neo noir and inspired by the likes

1433
01:25:35,120 --> 01:25:40,360
Speaker 2: of Christopher Nolan's Memento. I would say. It features Ariela

1434
01:25:40,439 --> 01:25:43,920
Speaker 2: Maastriani as a single mother who's suffering from this condition

1435
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:47,840
Speaker 2: that causes her to lose focus and track of time.

1436
01:25:48,160 --> 01:25:50,200
Speaker 2: Then she gets involved in a missing person case. So

1437
01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:53,280
Speaker 2: you can see some of those strands from Memento there,

1438
01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:57,200
Speaker 2: but some original work as well here with Gazer, So

1439
01:25:57,360 --> 01:26:00,240
Speaker 2: if you want to check up catch up with that one,

1440
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:03,600
Speaker 2: you can find Gazer right now. As I say, I

1441
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:07,960
Speaker 2: said on vod H and before I get.

1442
01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:10,519
Speaker 1: To a pick that I nominated, just to give you

1443
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:13,280
Speaker 1: the layout here, we're going to give you the long list.

1444
01:26:13,360 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 1: We've been a massing film titles here. All it takes

1445
01:26:16,040 --> 01:26:18,840
Speaker 1: is one of us has to nominate the film on

1446
01:26:19,000 --> 01:26:21,200
Speaker 1: the show. We put them on the Golden Brick page

1447
01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:24,240
Speaker 1: filmspotting dot Net slash bricks, and we're going to add

1448
01:26:24,240 --> 01:26:26,519
Speaker 1: a few titles here on this show and then on

1449
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:29,360
Speaker 1: the Top ten show, which we'll get to in a

1450
01:26:29,439 --> 01:26:33,519
Speaker 1: few weeks. We announced the finalists usually five titles, but

1451
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:36,120
Speaker 1: it could be four, it could be six. It probably

1452
01:26:36,120 --> 01:26:39,400
Speaker 1: won't be more than six. And then at our end

1453
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:42,560
Speaker 1: of year show, what we call our rap Party, we

1454
01:26:42,680 --> 01:26:46,479
Speaker 1: will announce the winner. That's in usually the second week,

1455
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:49,840
Speaker 1: second or third week of January. So this is the

1456
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:52,400
Speaker 1: long list. Want to make sure that you're fully aware

1457
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:55,800
Speaker 1: of all the titles and that if you want to

1458
01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:59,639
Speaker 1: seek these out, this is your chance to make sure

1459
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:02,600
Speaker 1: that you do. You get your homework done before we

1460
01:27:02,760 --> 01:27:06,839
Speaker 1: get to the finalists. So Josh has mentioned Grand Theft, Hamlet,

1461
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:13,240
Speaker 1: and Gazer I nominated on episode ten nine ephus from

1462
01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:18,000
Speaker 1: director Carson Lunn. This is on movie and various VOD platforms.

1463
01:27:18,080 --> 01:27:22,760
Speaker 1: A movie that turns the baseball film Josh completely on

1464
01:27:22,880 --> 01:27:26,240
Speaker 1: its head. If you like sports movies, but I'd say

1465
01:27:26,320 --> 01:27:29,560
Speaker 1: especially if you don't like sports movies, ethis might be

1466
01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:34,120
Speaker 1: the film for you. I really do feel like this

1467
01:27:34,280 --> 01:27:37,960
Speaker 1: movie that takes place in a New England town where

1468
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:42,040
Speaker 1: you've got these rec baseball teams, these these two teams

1469
01:27:42,080 --> 01:27:44,800
Speaker 1: with guys that are in their twenties on up to

1470
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:46,559
Speaker 1: I think there's some guys on the team that are

1471
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:49,759
Speaker 1: in their fifties and sixties and they're they're getting together,

1472
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:52,559
Speaker 1: and they know that it's the last time they're ever

1473
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:55,680
Speaker 1: going to play, because then the park is going to

1474
01:27:55,720 --> 01:27:59,559
Speaker 1: be destroyed. There's a construction project that is hanging over there.

1475
01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:01,439
Speaker 2: Are they turning it into a picture?

1476
01:28:01,479 --> 01:28:07,320
Speaker 1: Probably almost certainly pickleball and and they they just don't

1477
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:11,320
Speaker 1: want the game to end. But it's also not one

1478
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:13,240
Speaker 1: of those sports movies, you know, it's not. It's not

1479
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:15,720
Speaker 1: one of those sports movies necessarily. I'm not spoiling thing here.

1480
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:19,200
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it's it's not something where someone's

1481
01:28:19,240 --> 01:28:21,400
Speaker 1: going to show up at the end with five million

1482
01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:24,880
Speaker 1: dollars or whatever and stop the construction and and all

1483
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:26,840
Speaker 1: of a sudden they're going to keep playing baseball. It's

1484
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:31,200
Speaker 1: not that kind of inspirational film. It's it's a it's

1485
01:28:31,240 --> 01:28:36,519
Speaker 1: an existential it's an existential sports movie. Ephis is one

1486
01:28:36,640 --> 01:28:39,040
Speaker 1: I do recommend that you check out.

1487
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:42,320
Speaker 2: All Right, I've got a handful here to go through

1488
01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:44,639
Speaker 2: that I nominated, So I'll try to make these quick.

1489
01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:47,400
Speaker 2: But pay attention to the titles, and yeah, catch up

1490
01:28:47,439 --> 01:28:50,840
Speaker 2: with these. Support these films if you are interested by

1491
01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:54,719
Speaker 2: the premise. The first is Familiar Touch, directed by Sarah

1492
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:59,840
Speaker 2: Friedlan and this is available on movie and VOD as well.

1493
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:04,519
Speaker 2: It is a very non sentimental, I would say, portrait

1494
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:10,360
Speaker 2: of dementia. Kathleen Chalfont plays the main character here. It

1495
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:14,840
Speaker 2: is very moving, but not in a manipulative way at all.

1496
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:19,400
Speaker 2: It avoids sentimentality and is well worth your time, so

1497
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:24,040
Speaker 2: that is familiar touch. Next up, Sorry Baby, and this one,

1498
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 2: I know has been getting a lot of attention, but

1499
01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:29,000
Speaker 2: I think I saw it pretty early on at the

1500
01:29:29,080 --> 01:29:33,400
Speaker 2: Chicago Critics Film Festival Knocked Me Out. Directed by and

1501
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:38,400
Speaker 2: starring Ava Victor. You can watch this right now on HBO,

1502
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:41,280
Speaker 2: Max or VOD and I don't want to give too

1503
01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:44,599
Speaker 2: much away here, but Victor plays a literature professor at

1504
01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:48,200
Speaker 2: a small town university who is working through some things

1505
01:29:48,439 --> 01:29:50,840
Speaker 2: in her past. I'll leave it there, but the way

1506
01:29:50,960 --> 01:29:57,479
Speaker 2: this movie balances emotion, empathy and wit is incredibly unique.

1507
01:29:57,560 --> 01:30:00,320
Speaker 2: It's the tone that's the vision when it comes to

1508
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:03,519
Speaker 2: Sorry Baby, when we're thinking about some of these golden

1509
01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:07,439
Speaker 2: brick qualifications, So that one is very much worth your time.

1510
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:12,200
Speaker 2: Sunlight incredibly small film, I caught, incredibly weird film directed

1511
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:16,679
Speaker 2: by and starring Nina Kanti. Sunlight is available on VOD

1512
01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:20,840
Speaker 2: and I'm just going to say this. Kanti plays a

1513
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:25,320
Speaker 2: woman who wears a full monkey suit in trying to

1514
01:30:25,400 --> 01:30:29,080
Speaker 2: work through some identity issues, and it is a cringe

1515
01:30:29,160 --> 01:30:34,240
Speaker 2: free ventriloquism movie with genuine laughs and heart that does

1516
01:30:34,320 --> 01:30:38,679
Speaker 2: not sound possible, but somehow that's been pulled off with Sunlight.

1517
01:30:39,479 --> 01:30:43,519
Speaker 2: My last one here is Lurker, directed by Alex Russell,

1518
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:46,920
Speaker 2: also available on movie and VOD. This one's gotten a

1519
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:50,919
Speaker 2: little bit more attention. I think the very concept is appealing.

1520
01:30:51,520 --> 01:30:54,200
Speaker 2: It is about a hanger on to a rising pop

1521
01:30:54,320 --> 01:30:59,360
Speaker 2: star in LA and features a couple of very compelling

1522
01:30:59,439 --> 01:31:03,360
Speaker 2: performance Theodore Pellerin as Matthew, the main character the hanger on,

1523
01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:07,479
Speaker 2: and then Archie Mattoquay as this rising pop star. Oliver

1524
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:11,560
Speaker 2: Mattoquay sings some of these original songs here quite convincingly,

1525
01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:16,639
Speaker 2: and it's it's a little bit like maybe a talented

1526
01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:21,679
Speaker 2: mister Ripley set in contemporary La celebrity culture. That one

1527
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:23,000
Speaker 2: is Lurker.

1528
01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:26,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, Lurker is one that I still need to catch

1529
01:31:26,439 --> 01:31:28,439
Speaker 1: up with, and I do plan to because I can

1530
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:30,919
Speaker 1: also tell you I know this from reading Scott Tobias

1531
01:31:31,520 --> 01:31:34,599
Speaker 1: in the reveal that Lurker is a film. Oh maybe

1532
01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:36,599
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say this and spoil it because you're gonna

1533
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:39,160
Speaker 1: hear her on our show, but Lurker right now seems

1534
01:31:39,240 --> 01:31:41,879
Speaker 1: to be a film that has a spot on Alison

1535
01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:45,760
Speaker 1: Wilmore's Top ten Films of the really okay, yes, wow,

1536
01:31:45,880 --> 01:31:48,360
Speaker 1: she likes Lurker that much, so if that encourages you

1537
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:50,960
Speaker 1: to see it, in addition to it being a film

1538
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:54,760
Speaker 1: spot in Golden Brick Long Lister, Familiar Touch is a

1539
01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:59,879
Speaker 1: movie that Music Box Films is distributing, and Kathleen Chalfon

1540
01:32:00,760 --> 01:32:04,280
Speaker 1: is an actress that they are really pushing for Best

1541
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:07,240
Speaker 1: Actress consideration, And if you see the movie, you will

1542
01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:09,360
Speaker 1: understand why we both had a lot of praise for

1543
01:32:09,439 --> 01:32:13,040
Speaker 1: her when we talked about that movie. And this, by

1544
01:32:13,160 --> 01:32:16,879
Speaker 1: no means suggests that Sorry Baby is the top contender

1545
01:32:17,160 --> 01:32:19,040
Speaker 1: or is a lock to win. But I will tell

1546
01:32:19,080 --> 01:32:20,920
Speaker 1: you that if if you had to, if you could

1547
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:24,000
Speaker 1: only watch one of these movies, Sorry Baby's probably the

1548
01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:27,160
Speaker 1: one to see. It's one we've both seen, and I

1549
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:29,920
Speaker 1: think we can say it's our favorite of those four

1550
01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:33,360
Speaker 1: that you mentioned. It is for me anyway, It is

1551
01:32:33,439 --> 01:32:37,600
Speaker 1: for me of the ones I've seen, So it is

1552
01:32:38,080 --> 01:32:40,160
Speaker 1: a movie that you should check out if you have

1553
01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:44,839
Speaker 1: the time. As we're assembling this list of Golden Brick contenders.

1554
01:32:44,920 --> 01:32:49,080
Speaker 1: One other contender is the last movie that I nominated,

1555
01:32:49,160 --> 01:32:52,519
Speaker 1: which is a documentary by director David osit I talked

1556
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:55,200
Speaker 1: about it a little bit on episode ten thirty four.

1557
01:32:55,360 --> 01:32:59,520
Speaker 1: It's still in some select cities and it's a documentary

1558
01:32:59,560 --> 01:33:06,760
Speaker 1: called pre which looks at our fascination with punishment as entertainment.

1559
01:33:06,920 --> 01:33:10,240
Speaker 1: The phrase goes, it is really about the series To

1560
01:33:10,360 --> 01:33:15,840
Speaker 1: Catch a Predator and the legacy of that show. Fascinating

1561
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:19,600
Speaker 1: watch one I look forward to seeing again. So that

1562
01:33:20,080 --> 01:33:23,000
Speaker 1: completes the list of all the movies that are currently

1563
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:27,559
Speaker 1: on the film spotting dot net website. You can see

1564
01:33:27,600 --> 01:33:31,120
Speaker 1: those all at the brick page film Spotting dot Net

1565
01:33:31,200 --> 01:33:34,000
Speaker 1: slash bricks. But Josh, we have been doing a little

1566
01:33:34,040 --> 01:33:36,160
Speaker 1: bit of work here over the past week or two

1567
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:38,800
Speaker 1: and we have a few other films that we want

1568
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:42,599
Speaker 1: to add to the list, and we want to thank

1569
01:33:42,640 --> 01:33:45,679
Speaker 1: the Film Spotting Advisory Board, a group of our family

1570
01:33:45,800 --> 01:33:50,600
Speaker 1: members who we have a zoom call with quarterly. They

1571
01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:52,760
Speaker 1: have other benefits that they get, but one of those

1572
01:33:52,840 --> 01:33:56,320
Speaker 1: benefits is they get to meet with us myself, you

1573
01:33:56,680 --> 01:33:59,080
Speaker 1: producer Sam. We talk to them over zoom. We have

1574
01:33:59,160 --> 01:34:01,439
Speaker 1: a meeting and we have different topics and we get

1575
01:34:01,479 --> 01:34:03,559
Speaker 1: to throw out things and they get to give us

1576
01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:06,799
Speaker 1: feedback and we often try to listen to their advice.

1577
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:10,639
Speaker 1: One of the questions we asked them on our November

1578
01:34:10,760 --> 01:34:14,280
Speaker 1: call was Golden Brick, what are the films that we

1579
01:34:14,520 --> 01:34:18,640
Speaker 1: can't overlook? What are we missing currently? One of the

1580
01:34:18,680 --> 01:34:21,080
Speaker 1: titles that came back was this movie they came out

1581
01:34:21,120 --> 01:34:24,639
Speaker 1: earlier in the year called good Boy, a horror film

1582
01:34:25,240 --> 01:34:30,639
Speaker 1: that is really all told from the perspective of a dog,

1583
01:34:31,360 --> 01:34:36,880
Speaker 1: hence the title good Boy. He does have the human

1584
01:34:37,120 --> 01:34:40,080
Speaker 1: that he is attached to, who is going through some

1585
01:34:40,720 --> 01:34:43,720
Speaker 1: rough times, who who is sick, and they are out

1586
01:34:44,080 --> 01:34:47,080
Speaker 1: in the country at this house that just might be

1587
01:34:47,200 --> 01:34:56,639
Speaker 1: haunted Josh as this looming sinister presence is invading their

1588
01:34:56,720 --> 01:34:59,839
Speaker 1: space and causing a lot of a lot of problems.

1589
01:35:00,680 --> 01:35:02,880
Speaker 1: It's one I caught up with and the one I

1590
01:35:03,040 --> 01:35:05,400
Speaker 1: chose to watch first because there were a few other

1591
01:35:05,960 --> 01:35:08,400
Speaker 1: titles that were suggested that we're in the horror genre.

1592
01:35:08,520 --> 01:35:10,360
Speaker 1: I think we're going to get to one and those

1593
01:35:10,400 --> 01:35:14,320
Speaker 1: all had the word body in front of horror, and

1594
01:35:14,640 --> 01:35:17,640
Speaker 1: you know that's not my favorite genre. This one, this

1595
01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:21,360
Speaker 1: one didn't. This one just promised a really adorable dog,

1596
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:26,439
Speaker 1: and I went. I went for good Boy. I went here.

1597
01:35:26,840 --> 01:35:31,120
Speaker 1: The concept, the concept, it speaks for itself, but it

1598
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:36,200
Speaker 1: has to it has to be executed properly. And I

1599
01:35:36,280 --> 01:35:38,920
Speaker 1: thought it was. It seems like you agree because you

1600
01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:39,600
Speaker 1: also saw it.

1601
01:35:40,840 --> 01:35:43,960
Speaker 2: I agree, but I also have a complaint, specifically to

1602
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:48,360
Speaker 2: level towards you good Boy. The minute I heard about it,

1603
01:35:48,560 --> 01:35:52,280
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, this sounds so up my alley

1604
01:35:53,120 --> 01:35:57,160
Speaker 2: horror the conceit. But then I was like, but I'm

1605
01:35:57,200 --> 01:36:01,240
Speaker 2: a dog person. Can I do this to myself? And

1606
01:36:01,760 --> 01:36:04,800
Speaker 2: Adam that's the reason I have not gotten around to it.

1607
01:36:05,479 --> 01:36:09,080
Speaker 2: Then you, in our production meeting, that's right, say oh,

1608
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:13,400
Speaker 2: I watched Good Boy and the advisory board suggested it.

1609
01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:16,680
Speaker 2: So I'm thinking, well, you know, family members liked it.

1610
01:36:17,120 --> 01:36:19,559
Speaker 2: This is all like, this is my reason check it out.

1611
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:23,360
Speaker 2: And then you said, yeah, you know it really wasn't

1612
01:36:23,840 --> 01:36:26,719
Speaker 2: Was it not that intense? Did you say or something

1613
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:34,120
Speaker 2: like you obviously do not care for dogs. This was

1614
01:36:34,200 --> 01:36:37,200
Speaker 2: a rough go for me. Well i am I'm across

1615
01:36:37,320 --> 01:36:42,000
Speaker 2: the ocean away from my beloved Louise and this is

1616
01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:45,600
Speaker 2: this is how I get to experience a dog is

1617
01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:46,040
Speaker 2: through this.

1618
01:36:46,680 --> 01:36:48,240
Speaker 1: I can see that it's intense.

1619
01:36:48,520 --> 01:36:48,720
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1620
01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:53,960
Speaker 2: Is it a good movie, yes? Is it a golden

1621
01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:59,519
Speaker 2: brick quality movie. Yes. I think some very interesting employment

1622
01:36:59,640 --> 01:37:02,160
Speaker 2: of how to pull this off, this conceit. But as

1623
01:37:02,200 --> 01:37:07,840
Speaker 2: a dog lover, but I feel like we should have

1624
01:37:07,840 --> 01:37:08,200
Speaker 2: had him.

1625
01:37:08,400 --> 01:37:10,519
Speaker 1: I feel like we should give a trigger warning though,

1626
01:37:10,640 --> 01:37:13,639
Speaker 1: and at least say that it's not like the dog

1627
01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:17,200
Speaker 1: is tortured or anything. You're not going to see a

1628
01:37:17,240 --> 01:37:21,600
Speaker 1: bunch of physical That's that's your line. Fine bunch of

1629
01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:26,040
Speaker 1: physical pain. This is true inflicted upon Indy, who is

1630
01:37:26,120 --> 01:37:30,040
Speaker 1: a very very good boy, co written by Ben Lindbergh,

1631
01:37:30,360 --> 01:37:34,040
Speaker 1: who was also the director here. I mean, honestly, just

1632
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:36,479
Speaker 1: give best actor to Indy right now.

1633
01:37:36,640 --> 01:37:40,160
Speaker 2: I don't know how credible and I was I was

1634
01:37:40,240 --> 01:37:43,880
Speaker 2: looking into this, you know, reportedly no CGI assistance with

1635
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:49,360
Speaker 2: the dog performance. And yeah, the the process of getting

1636
01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:51,280
Speaker 2: to him to have some of these, I mean they

1637
01:37:51,320 --> 01:37:58,040
Speaker 2: are reaction shots, they are is pretty impressive. And yeah,

1638
01:37:58,080 --> 01:38:00,519
Speaker 2: I'm still recovering. So thank you, thank you to the

1639
01:38:00,560 --> 01:38:07,439
Speaker 2: advisory board. Good boy, yeah, good boy. How VOD check

1640
01:38:07,520 --> 01:38:11,160
Speaker 2: it out? Hopefully, you won't be as distressed as apparently

1641
01:38:11,720 --> 01:38:13,120
Speaker 2: Josh as I put him through the ringer?

1642
01:38:13,400 --> 01:38:15,599
Speaker 1: Did you get put through the ringer? Apparently? You don't

1643
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:19,839
Speaker 1: mind watching humans being tortured because you're recommending You're recommending

1644
01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:20,880
Speaker 1: the Ugly step Sister.

1645
01:38:21,439 --> 01:38:24,439
Speaker 2: This is what's so sick about our psychologies, right, is

1646
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:29,640
Speaker 2: you're so correct? The Ugly Stepsister, which I am recommending

1647
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:34,040
Speaker 2: for the Golden Brick long List, is basically the Cinderella

1648
01:38:34,080 --> 01:38:37,320
Speaker 2: Fairytale or back to Malficent Adam and back to Wicked apparently,

1649
01:38:37,960 --> 01:38:40,840
Speaker 2: but this time it's the Cinderella Fairytale from the point

1650
01:38:40,880 --> 01:38:44,240
Speaker 2: of view of one of the stepsisters and amping up

1651
01:38:45,080 --> 01:38:49,840
Speaker 2: the body horror. So you know you can't fit into

1652
01:38:49,920 --> 01:38:53,280
Speaker 2: that slipper, that shoe that are what are you going

1653
01:38:53,360 --> 01:38:56,680
Speaker 2: to do? I'll leave that to your imagination. And yes,

1654
01:38:56,720 --> 01:39:00,519
Speaker 2: I did find this less distressful than The Good Boy.

1655
01:39:00,640 --> 01:39:05,719
Speaker 2: Let's distressing. It is directed by a Norwegian filmmaker making

1656
01:39:05,880 --> 01:39:11,880
Speaker 2: her feature debut, that is Amelia Blickfeldt, and having a

1657
01:39:11,960 --> 01:39:13,920
Speaker 2: lot of fun here, if if you know, if you

1658
01:39:14,000 --> 01:39:16,360
Speaker 2: think of this stuff as fun, it's sort of like

1659
01:39:16,600 --> 01:39:19,799
Speaker 2: the Substance by the way, by way of the Brothers

1660
01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:22,240
Speaker 2: grim is how I would describe it. So if that

1661
01:39:22,600 --> 01:39:26,519
Speaker 2: sounds intriguing and doesn't put you off, check out The

1662
01:39:26,720 --> 01:39:28,000
Speaker 2: Ugly Stepsister.

1663
01:39:29,080 --> 01:39:32,920
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know that I can, but you've nominated it,

1664
01:39:33,120 --> 01:39:35,880
Speaker 1: and I may. I may just have to. I have

1665
01:39:35,960 --> 01:39:40,240
Speaker 1: another film spotting Advisory Board recommendation that I saw and

1666
01:39:40,720 --> 01:39:42,920
Speaker 1: guess what they were right again.

1667
01:39:43,280 --> 01:39:46,400
Speaker 2: I'm going to nominate it also Chester. Yeah, I should

1668
01:39:46,400 --> 01:39:49,639
Speaker 2: have said that advisory board suggested that one as well.

1669
01:39:50,040 --> 01:39:52,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, they're three for three on these recommendations because

1670
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:56,599
Speaker 1: I'm going to nominate a movie called Plane Clothes. It's

1671
01:39:56,640 --> 01:40:00,600
Speaker 1: written and directed by Carmen Emmy. Very good lead performance

1672
01:40:00,720 --> 01:40:05,320
Speaker 1: by an actor named Tom Blythe who plays Lucas. He's

1673
01:40:05,520 --> 01:40:09,759
Speaker 1: an undercover police officer. It's set in the early nineties,

1674
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:13,200
Speaker 1: and that really does matter here, Josh, in terms of

1675
01:40:13,280 --> 01:40:18,320
Speaker 1: some of the technology, but also the circumstances of the

1676
01:40:18,439 --> 01:40:22,640
Speaker 1: climate around the fact that he is someone who is

1677
01:40:23,360 --> 01:40:27,600
Speaker 1: in the closet and struggling with his sexuality, and it

1678
01:40:27,880 --> 01:40:30,639
Speaker 1: does not help that he is an undercover. That's where

1679
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:32,960
Speaker 1: the title comes from. He is a plain closed undercover

1680
01:40:33,080 --> 01:40:37,920
Speaker 1: police officer and his job is to primarily what we

1681
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:42,960
Speaker 1: see him do exclusively is to lure men at a

1682
01:40:43,080 --> 01:40:48,840
Speaker 1: mall who display that they may want to engage in

1683
01:40:49,320 --> 01:40:54,000
Speaker 1: homosexual activity in the mall bathroom. Is to lure them

1684
01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:58,360
Speaker 1: into the bathroom and then have them be arrested. And

1685
01:40:58,680 --> 01:41:02,400
Speaker 1: of course he is then struggle with that role that

1686
01:41:02,520 --> 01:41:07,439
Speaker 1: he has and struggling with his own identity. And not

1687
01:41:07,560 --> 01:41:10,240
Speaker 1: only is that performance very good, but but Emmy as

1688
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:13,120
Speaker 1: a filmmaker is using a lot of different a lot

1689
01:41:13,160 --> 01:41:16,240
Speaker 1: of different techniques that are being employed to reflect his

1690
01:41:16,439 --> 01:41:20,679
Speaker 1: fractured sense of self. And there are some other good

1691
01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:25,759
Speaker 1: performances from a supporting standpoint as well. Russell Tovey plays Andrew,

1692
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:29,439
Speaker 1: who's one of those men that he meets in the

1693
01:41:29,640 --> 01:41:33,439
Speaker 1: mall bathroom stall but doesn't end up reporting and begins

1694
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:37,519
Speaker 1: a relationship with I really think Plain Clothes is one

1695
01:41:37,560 --> 01:41:41,320
Speaker 1: that's worth seeing. It's available VOD as well.

1696
01:41:41,600 --> 01:41:45,719
Speaker 2: I forgot if I said where the Ugly Stepsister is available,

1697
01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:49,320
Speaker 2: so I should just note that's VOD also.

1698
01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:52,960
Speaker 1: Okay, one more film. One we've both seen one that

1699
01:41:53,120 --> 01:41:56,559
Speaker 1: has come up on the show before, because I saw

1700
01:41:56,640 --> 01:42:01,360
Speaker 1: it virtually back when it premiered I Leave at Sundance,

1701
01:42:01,400 --> 01:42:03,720
Speaker 1: and then you saw it when it played at the

1702
01:42:03,840 --> 01:42:08,559
Speaker 1: Chicago Critics Film Festival. The Zodiac Killer Project from Charlie

1703
01:42:08,600 --> 01:42:12,200
Speaker 1: Shackleton is now out November twenty first, it just opened

1704
01:42:12,400 --> 01:42:17,439
Speaker 1: in select theaters and for our Chicago listeners, it is

1705
01:42:17,840 --> 01:42:21,040
Speaker 1: going to open in Chicago on December fifth at the

1706
01:42:21,120 --> 01:42:24,320
Speaker 1: Music Box. But if you are hearing this, oh, actually

1707
01:42:24,400 --> 01:42:26,680
Speaker 1: you just missed it. Unfortunately, now I'm looking at the

1708
01:42:27,280 --> 01:42:30,120
Speaker 1: date here closer, Josh. Charlie Shackleton was just at the

1709
01:42:30,200 --> 01:42:33,400
Speaker 1: Music Box for an in person Q and a following

1710
01:42:34,240 --> 01:42:36,800
Speaker 1: screening of it on Sunday, November twenty third. But again

1711
01:42:36,840 --> 01:42:40,439
Speaker 1: it's opening on the fifth. And from a golden brick

1712
01:42:40,520 --> 01:42:44,320
Speaker 1: standpoint when we talk about taking chances with form, this

1713
01:42:44,600 --> 01:42:49,560
Speaker 1: is a movie where the entire premise is it's a documentary,

1714
01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:52,920
Speaker 1: but the entire premise is that he had bought the

1715
01:42:53,040 --> 01:42:56,040
Speaker 1: rights to a book about the Zodiac Killer, and then

1716
01:42:56,080 --> 01:42:59,720
Speaker 1: when those rights fell through, rather than completely shelving the

1717
01:43:00,400 --> 01:43:04,519
Speaker 1: he decided to make a documentary about what his film

1718
01:43:04,960 --> 01:43:09,040
Speaker 1: would have been essentially had he actually gone through with it.

1719
01:43:09,320 --> 01:43:13,200
Speaker 1: And it ends up being more for my recollection, a

1720
01:43:13,360 --> 01:43:16,640
Speaker 1: deconstruction and a piece of criticism or work of criticism

1721
01:43:16,720 --> 01:43:18,120
Speaker 1: about the true crime genre.

1722
01:43:19,200 --> 01:43:25,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, criticism and yes, self incrimination. The degree to which

1723
01:43:25,840 --> 01:43:29,120
Speaker 2: it is that, I think is interesting. I've been thinking

1724
01:43:29,160 --> 01:43:31,880
Speaker 2: about this since you were talking about the use of

1725
01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:36,719
Speaker 2: zooms and that sort of camera work in training dreams,

1726
01:43:37,280 --> 01:43:40,360
Speaker 2: and I will say what I think about most from

1727
01:43:40,640 --> 01:43:43,560
Speaker 2: Zodiac Killer Project in terms of the form is his

1728
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:48,719
Speaker 2: employment of these very slow zooms and occasionally some pans

1729
01:43:48,760 --> 01:43:51,320
Speaker 2: across these locations he was planning to use.

1730
01:43:52,080 --> 01:43:54,840
Speaker 4: It has that thing all good true crime stories have

1731
01:43:56,080 --> 01:43:59,759
Speaker 4: where it feels like a puzzle right on the verge

1732
01:43:59,800 --> 01:44:00,719
Speaker 4: of being solved.

1733
01:44:03,479 --> 01:44:05,600
Speaker 2: I don't know how he just manages to evoke this

1734
01:44:05,920 --> 01:44:11,400
Speaker 2: menace from those right shots, even though we know not

1735
01:44:11,520 --> 01:44:15,280
Speaker 2: only is this not a true crime documentary, like there's

1736
01:44:15,360 --> 01:44:17,640
Speaker 2: nothing even really going to happen here. It's it's like

1737
01:44:17,760 --> 01:44:20,720
Speaker 2: so many levels removed from the crime, but the use

1738
01:44:20,800 --> 01:44:23,360
Speaker 2: of the technique still creates that sort of suspense.

1739
01:44:23,800 --> 01:44:24,080
Speaker 1: That's it.

1740
01:44:24,400 --> 01:44:24,599
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1741
01:44:25,760 --> 01:44:28,400
Speaker 1: Well, if you would like to learn more about all

1742
01:44:28,439 --> 01:44:30,560
Speaker 1: of those titles, or just make sure that you have

1743
01:44:30,680 --> 01:44:33,240
Speaker 1: the entire list in front of you, more information is

1744
01:44:33,280 --> 01:44:38,080
Speaker 1: available at filmspotting dot net slash bricks. Next week on

1745
01:44:38,280 --> 01:44:41,360
Speaker 1: the show we are Off sort of. The show is

1746
01:44:41,520 --> 01:44:46,360
Speaker 1: not off because well, what we're doing while you're listening

1747
01:44:46,400 --> 01:44:48,680
Speaker 1: to an episode. We'll talk about that content here in

1748
01:44:48,720 --> 01:44:51,599
Speaker 1: a moment. We're just going to be in a movie

1749
01:44:51,680 --> 01:44:56,519
Speaker 1: watching frenzy. It is the week before our Chicago Film

1750
01:44:56,760 --> 01:45:01,559
Speaker 1: Critics Association ballots are due, so you're going to hear

1751
01:45:02,160 --> 01:45:05,760
Speaker 1: the top five that I recorded with Michael Phillips back

1752
01:45:05,880 --> 01:45:08,920
Speaker 1: in October as part of the Refocused Film Festival. I

1753
01:45:09,000 --> 01:45:11,320
Speaker 1: said Trained Dreams was the opening of that festival and

1754
01:45:11,479 --> 01:45:17,040
Speaker 1: inspired by the Train Dreams novella. That being the opening

1755
01:45:17,120 --> 01:45:20,360
Speaker 1: night film. Dennis Johnson was an alum of the famed

1756
01:45:20,360 --> 01:45:24,519
Speaker 1: Iowa Writers Workshop, taught at the Iowa Writers' Workshop, so

1757
01:45:24,920 --> 01:45:27,720
Speaker 1: we decided to build our top five around that, and

1758
01:45:27,880 --> 01:45:32,599
Speaker 1: we shared our top five movies adapted from Iowa Writers

1759
01:45:33,400 --> 01:45:37,080
Speaker 1: Actually maybe more options than you would believe and or

1760
01:45:37,200 --> 01:45:41,439
Speaker 1: you might expect, and we get into the criteria and

1761
01:45:41,600 --> 01:45:44,800
Speaker 1: all of that. You'll hear it next week on the show.

1762
01:45:44,880 --> 01:45:47,639
Speaker 1: It was a fun top five to record, good crowd,

1763
01:45:47,920 --> 01:45:51,240
Speaker 1: some good picks, and we look forward to sharing that

1764
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:55,200
Speaker 1: next week. We will be watching as many movies as

1765
01:45:55,280 --> 01:45:57,040
Speaker 1: we possibly can.

1766
01:45:57,600 --> 01:46:00,960
Speaker 2: It's hard to worry about, but you know someone's got

1767
01:46:01,040 --> 01:46:02,960
Speaker 2: to do it. So that's right for the challenge.

1768
01:46:03,640 --> 01:46:06,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, we will return for a proper show in a

1769
01:46:06,439 --> 01:46:09,720
Speaker 1: couple of weeks because we're going to share our performances

1770
01:46:09,880 --> 01:46:14,479
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty five Best Actor an Actress and our

1771
01:46:14,560 --> 01:46:18,880
Speaker 1: best supporting performances. We are hoping to also get in

1772
01:46:19,160 --> 01:46:21,800
Speaker 1: even though that's an entire show. We're hoping to get

1773
01:46:21,880 --> 01:46:24,920
Speaker 1: in some other new releases because there's some huge titles

1774
01:46:25,000 --> 01:46:29,599
Speaker 1: opening Josh Chloe Jao's Hamnet, Ryan Johnson's Wake Up dead Man,

1775
01:46:29,720 --> 01:46:32,920
Speaker 1: A Knives Out Mystery, You'll come tour. Sentimental Value a

1776
01:46:33,040 --> 01:46:39,000
Speaker 1: movie I did see over the weekend and yeah, yeah, spoilers. Well,

1777
01:46:39,040 --> 01:46:41,559
Speaker 1: I got my I got my kneon box, a thing

1778
01:46:41,640 --> 01:46:44,439
Speaker 1: of beauty. It came in the mail. So I've already

1779
01:46:44,439 --> 01:46:46,960
Speaker 1: seen Sentimental Value. I'm ready to talk about it. It

1780
01:46:47,520 --> 01:46:49,960
Speaker 1: may come up on our performances of the year, just

1781
01:46:50,600 --> 01:46:53,280
Speaker 1: maybe so fair.

1782
01:46:53,479 --> 01:46:55,800
Speaker 2: And I know I could. I could hop on a

1783
01:46:55,880 --> 01:46:59,560
Speaker 2: plane and get to Norway in an hour, yeah, and

1784
01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:03,240
Speaker 2: probably see Sentimental Value. But it's not playing in theaters

1785
01:47:03,320 --> 01:47:06,560
Speaker 2: here in Scotland, right, What I guess? Should I do it?

1786
01:47:06,640 --> 01:47:08,960
Speaker 2: Can I put that on the film spotation credit card?

1787
01:47:09,680 --> 01:47:11,519
Speaker 1: It might be easier for you to go knock on

1788
01:47:11,640 --> 01:47:14,000
Speaker 1: Yocum Trier's door and ask him for a copy of

1789
01:47:14,080 --> 01:47:17,720
Speaker 1: the film might be better off. So we'll see if

1790
01:47:17,760 --> 01:47:21,600
Speaker 1: we can both get to screenings or screening links or

1791
01:47:21,720 --> 01:47:25,840
Speaker 1: DVDs of those films in time to talk about those.

1792
01:47:26,520 --> 01:47:30,120
Speaker 2: Last call for the London meetup, it's right around the

1793
01:47:30,200 --> 01:47:34,559
Speaker 2: corner here, Thursday, December eleven. I'm going to be at

1794
01:47:34,720 --> 01:47:38,320
Speaker 2: the Barbican there in London. It's the Cafe at Cinema

1795
01:47:38,360 --> 01:47:41,519
Speaker 2: two and three. Specifically, if you're looking for us at

1796
01:47:41,560 --> 01:47:44,439
Speaker 2: the Barbican Center. They have all sorts of stuff going

1797
01:47:44,479 --> 01:47:47,920
Speaker 2: on there, music, theater, exhibits and a cinema as well.

1798
01:47:48,280 --> 01:47:51,519
Speaker 2: We're going to use that as our location for our

1799
01:47:51,600 --> 01:47:54,920
Speaker 2: December eleven meetup. I can't wait for it. We've got

1800
01:47:55,040 --> 01:47:57,559
Speaker 2: I think we're up to like maybe twelve thirteen people

1801
01:47:57,760 --> 01:47:59,880
Speaker 2: signed up now, so a good group enough for a

1802
01:48:00,120 --> 01:48:04,200
Speaker 2: big table. Everyone can get in on the shared conversation,

1803
01:48:04,400 --> 01:48:07,280
Speaker 2: but of course more are always welcome, so if you

1804
01:48:07,360 --> 01:48:10,560
Speaker 2: are coming, if that works out, just go ahead and

1805
01:48:10,680 --> 01:48:13,880
Speaker 2: fill out the RSVP form, which you'll find in the

1806
01:48:13,960 --> 01:48:17,280
Speaker 2: show notes for this episode and all the details I

1807
01:48:17,400 --> 01:48:21,360
Speaker 2: just said about time and place. Seven pm, December eleven

1808
01:48:21,439 --> 01:48:24,040
Speaker 2: will be there as well, so check that out. Also,

1809
01:48:24,400 --> 01:48:28,680
Speaker 2: last call for a special deal on my book fear Not,

1810
01:48:28,840 --> 01:48:32,559
Speaker 2: a Christian Appreciation of Horror Movies. The publisher has been

1811
01:48:32,640 --> 01:48:36,080
Speaker 2: offering this through November thirty, So if you're listening before

1812
01:48:36,160 --> 01:48:38,920
Speaker 2: November thirty you haven't picked up a copy of fear

1813
01:48:39,000 --> 01:48:41,840
Speaker 2: Not and you'd like to, you're a horror fan and

1814
01:48:42,040 --> 01:48:45,479
Speaker 2: want to experience the genre through that lens, you can

1815
01:48:45,560 --> 01:48:49,799
Speaker 2: get it for fifty percent off plus free shipping, so combined,

1816
01:48:50,080 --> 01:48:53,160
Speaker 2: that's honestly probably the best deal you're ever going to find.

1817
01:48:53,640 --> 01:48:58,640
Speaker 2: The code there is coonf ship and we'll share that

1818
01:48:58,720 --> 01:49:01,280
Speaker 2: in the show notes a lot with the details for

1819
01:49:01,360 --> 01:49:06,080
Speaker 2: getting that free shipping as well. Another note about our

1820
01:49:06,160 --> 01:49:09,639
Speaker 2: sister podcast, The Next Picture Show, looking at cinema's present

1821
01:49:09,800 --> 01:49:13,519
Speaker 2: via its past. We've been celebrating along with them on

1822
01:49:13,720 --> 01:49:18,920
Speaker 2: our last few episodes. They're five hundredth episode. They've been

1823
01:49:19,040 --> 01:49:22,559
Speaker 2: at this for ten years, and to mark that occasion

1824
01:49:22,720 --> 01:49:25,080
Speaker 2: on the Next Picture Show, they did a special one

1825
01:49:25,160 --> 01:49:29,800
Speaker 2: off review of their namesake, The Last Picture Show, so

1826
01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:32,800
Speaker 2: you can find that in our feed as well. We

1827
01:49:32,920 --> 01:49:35,160
Speaker 2: imagine all of you who are listening to Film Spotting

1828
01:49:35,200 --> 01:49:37,320
Speaker 2: are also listening to the Next Picture Show. But if

1829
01:49:37,360 --> 01:49:39,840
Speaker 2: you haven't made that jump yet, we're going to share

1830
01:49:39,880 --> 01:49:41,439
Speaker 2: this episode so you can get a taste of it

1831
01:49:41,560 --> 01:49:45,639
Speaker 2: and hopefully convince you that they're worth listening to their

1832
01:49:45,760 --> 01:49:49,080
Speaker 2: regular in my feed. So once again, congrats to Scott, Tasha,

1833
01:49:49,160 --> 01:49:52,519
Speaker 2: Genevieve and Keith. You can find new episodes of the

1834
01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:56,560
Speaker 2: Next Picture Show every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts.

1835
01:49:57,280 --> 01:50:00,479
Speaker 1: I just feel I just feel like.

1836
01:50:02,560 --> 01:50:09,720
Speaker 6: Women. They have minds, and they have souls as well

1837
01:50:09,720 --> 01:50:12,720
Speaker 6: as just hearts, and they've got ambition, and they've got

1838
01:50:12,880 --> 01:50:15,840
Speaker 6: talent as well as just beauty. And I'm so sick

1839
01:50:16,200 --> 01:50:19,000
Speaker 6: of people saying that that love is just all a

1840
01:50:19,120 --> 01:50:21,160
Speaker 6: woman is fit for. I'm so sick of it.

1841
01:50:23,280 --> 01:50:25,519
Speaker 4: But I'm so lonely.

1842
01:50:26,400 --> 01:50:29,000
Speaker 1: It is time for poll results, Josh. A couple of

1843
01:50:29,080 --> 01:50:31,719
Speaker 1: weeks ago, we asked you to choose the third best

1844
01:50:31,960 --> 01:50:38,080
Speaker 1: Robert Zameeka's film We're kidding. Sorry, you almost had me there,

1845
01:50:38,479 --> 01:50:42,160
Speaker 1: Yeah we and bye we we mean producer Sam went

1846
01:50:42,320 --> 01:50:44,920
Speaker 1: completely off the rails for this one. We asked you

1847
01:50:45,040 --> 01:50:50,000
Speaker 1: to choose one and only one actor director duo. The caveats,

1848
01:50:50,040 --> 01:50:54,400
Speaker 1: because of course, there are numerous caveats where we are

1849
01:50:54,479 --> 01:50:58,439
Speaker 1: talking twenty first century collaborators here, So their first film

1850
01:50:58,479 --> 01:51:01,960
Speaker 1: together had to be in the year two thousand or later. Also,

1851
01:51:02,280 --> 01:51:04,880
Speaker 1: the pair has to have made a minimum of just

1852
01:51:04,960 --> 01:51:10,320
Speaker 1: two films together. Your options? Do we have enough time

1853
01:51:10,360 --> 01:51:11,759
Speaker 1: for me to read all of these options?

1854
01:51:12,840 --> 01:51:14,800
Speaker 2: Are you really asking me?

1855
01:51:15,840 --> 01:51:19,599
Speaker 1: They are Ryan Kugler and Michael B. Jordan, Sophia Coppola

1856
01:51:19,600 --> 01:51:23,360
Speaker 1: and Kirsten Dunce, Greta Gerrug and Sir Sharonan, Jordan Peel

1857
01:51:23,400 --> 01:51:27,920
Speaker 1: and Daniel Kluja, Yorgos Lanthemos and Emma Stone, Christopher Nolan

1858
01:51:27,960 --> 01:51:31,960
Speaker 1: and Killian Murphy, Paul Thomas Anderson and Joaquin Phoenix, Kelly

1859
01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:35,280
Speaker 1: Reichert and Michelle Williams, Wes Anderson and Ray Fines or

1860
01:51:36,160 --> 01:51:38,360
Speaker 1: other and other is not paired with anyone?

1861
01:51:39,960 --> 01:51:44,320
Speaker 2: Really now seems like we could have added that complication. Yeah,

1862
01:51:44,560 --> 01:51:47,400
Speaker 2: I mean this poll caused me enough consternation, and then

1863
01:51:47,439 --> 01:51:50,280
Speaker 2: I see here that Sophia Copla and Kirsten duns are

1864
01:51:50,360 --> 01:51:54,559
Speaker 2: not only in last place, they placed behind other. Yes,

1865
01:51:54,760 --> 01:51:59,759
Speaker 2: so the disrespect for that collaboration is galling four percent

1866
01:52:00,280 --> 01:52:04,040
Speaker 2: of the vote, five percent for other, Wes Anderson refines

1867
01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:08,679
Speaker 2: six percent, Jordan Peel Daniel Caluia seven percent, Christopher Nolan

1868
01:52:08,720 --> 01:52:13,479
Speaker 2: Killing Murphy eight percent. Little jump here for the next batch, yorgo?

1869
01:52:13,520 --> 01:52:16,920
Speaker 2: Slanthemos and Emma Stone eleven percent of the vote. Maybe

1870
01:52:17,280 --> 01:52:20,240
Speaker 2: like me, people are feeling a little about that continuing

1871
01:52:20,320 --> 01:52:22,960
Speaker 2: Paul Thomas Anderson Joaquin Phoenix twelve percent of the vote.

1872
01:52:23,000 --> 01:52:26,679
Speaker 2: Kelly Riker Michelle Williams also twelve percent of the vote.

1873
01:52:27,360 --> 01:52:32,040
Speaker 2: All right, came down to not really all that close

1874
01:52:32,120 --> 01:52:36,559
Speaker 2: between these next two, but in second place with thirteen

1875
01:52:36,600 --> 01:52:40,679
Speaker 2: percent of the vote. Ryan Kugler and Michael B. Jordan

1876
01:52:40,800 --> 01:52:43,439
Speaker 2: meaning Greta Gerwig and syr Sha Ronan won this poll

1877
01:52:43,520 --> 01:52:46,080
Speaker 2: with twenty two percent of the vote.

1878
01:52:46,880 --> 01:52:48,760
Speaker 1: Now, I don't know if you notice it here. I

1879
01:52:48,800 --> 01:52:50,720
Speaker 1: don't know if it's in big enough letters or in

1880
01:52:50,800 --> 01:52:56,040
Speaker 1: a bright enough color. The producer Sam says before feedback,

1881
01:52:56,600 --> 01:52:59,679
Speaker 1: make your picks, which you failed to do last time.

1882
01:53:00,880 --> 01:53:03,040
Speaker 2: Exclamation point, exclamation point?

1883
01:53:03,080 --> 01:53:04,519
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm sorry, I.

1884
01:53:04,600 --> 01:53:07,840
Speaker 2: Mean, does it? I feel like Sam doesn't use exclamation points.

1885
01:53:07,960 --> 01:53:08,840
Speaker 1: No, not very often.

1886
01:53:08,920 --> 01:53:10,840
Speaker 2: He's kind of guy.

1887
01:53:11,240 --> 01:53:13,840
Speaker 1: He's not you know, are you going to disobey him?

1888
01:53:14,360 --> 01:53:18,200
Speaker 2: Oh, let's let's put this thing out of its misery.

1889
01:53:19,560 --> 01:53:23,759
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with despite my complaints about the Copola

1890
01:53:23,840 --> 01:53:30,880
Speaker 2: Dunst placement, I think the second placing choice here is

1891
01:53:30,920 --> 01:53:33,240
Speaker 2: the correct one Ryan Coogler and Michael B. Jordan if

1892
01:53:33,280 --> 01:53:37,519
Speaker 2: you look over the body of work. Yeah, and uh,

1893
01:53:37,720 --> 01:53:40,360
Speaker 2: you know, because Gretigory, your Sharon and I get it.

1894
01:53:40,479 --> 01:53:43,360
Speaker 2: But it's just did I miss a? There's two films? Right,

1895
01:53:43,439 --> 01:53:44,320
Speaker 2: did I miss Yes?

1896
01:53:45,400 --> 01:53:48,080
Speaker 1: I think it's just too yeah, okay, yeah, I I.

1897
01:53:48,280 --> 01:53:50,400
Speaker 2: Just you know, for me to actually make it as

1898
01:53:50,479 --> 01:53:54,000
Speaker 2: my number, I I completely get that would be in consideration.

1899
01:53:54,240 --> 01:53:58,080
Speaker 2: But I do think for me to cast a vote,

1900
01:53:58,280 --> 01:54:01,080
Speaker 2: it would need you know, maybe three films is where

1901
01:54:01,080 --> 01:54:02,920
Speaker 2: I'd put it at. So that's why I'd go with

1902
01:54:03,000 --> 01:54:03,759
Speaker 2: Coogler and Jordan.

1903
01:54:04,360 --> 01:54:07,600
Speaker 1: Gosh, I just want to skip it. I don't know.

1904
01:54:08,120 --> 01:54:12,519
Speaker 1: It's hard because if you're going by quality of films,

1905
01:54:13,520 --> 01:54:18,599
Speaker 1: then the pairs I like the best are Gerwig and Ronan,

1906
01:54:19,080 --> 01:54:23,400
Speaker 1: Lady Bird and Little Women, okay, sure, and Pta and

1907
01:54:23,479 --> 01:54:28,120
Speaker 1: Joaquin Phoenix because we're talking about The Master and Inherent

1908
01:54:28,160 --> 01:54:30,640
Speaker 1: and Vice, those would probably be the two that are

1909
01:54:30,640 --> 01:54:34,760
Speaker 1: in contention. But for me, it's almost more about if

1910
01:54:34,800 --> 01:54:38,960
Speaker 1: it was just based on the duo, whatever film they

1911
01:54:39,040 --> 01:54:44,680
Speaker 1: make next that director being paired with that actor, if

1912
01:54:44,720 --> 01:54:46,880
Speaker 1: they only worked with that actor for the rest of

1913
01:54:46,920 --> 01:54:50,920
Speaker 1: their career. Let's say which pairing what I like to

1914
01:54:51,040 --> 01:54:53,440
Speaker 1: see stick together.

1915
01:54:54,880 --> 01:54:57,160
Speaker 2: I think it's between the top two. Still for me,

1916
01:54:58,400 --> 01:54:59,720
Speaker 2: it's not, but the.

1917
01:54:59,800 --> 01:55:05,600
Speaker 1: Top two aren't in contention for me really, Actually, you

1918
01:55:05,720 --> 01:55:07,720
Speaker 1: might be right. Based on sinners.

1919
01:55:09,280 --> 01:55:14,120
Speaker 2: Projection right future projection, it's gotta be Gerwig Roenan or

1920
01:55:14,200 --> 01:55:15,000
Speaker 2: Kugler Jordan.

1921
01:55:16,560 --> 01:55:22,720
Speaker 1: It might be Coogler Jordan. Based on Sinners, it might be.

1922
01:55:24,560 --> 01:55:24,800
Speaker 2: Do it.

1923
01:55:25,480 --> 01:55:29,720
Speaker 1: I'm going I'm going with you, Josh. I didn't think

1924
01:55:29,840 --> 01:55:31,520
Speaker 1: in a million years I would have answered that, But

1925
01:55:31,640 --> 01:55:34,440
Speaker 1: you know what, just to confound Sam even more, I'm

1926
01:55:34,440 --> 01:55:36,640
Speaker 1: gonna go with the pick. I never thought I would

1927
01:55:36,680 --> 01:55:40,839
Speaker 1: go with. Here's here's Tory Lightcap, who says I refuse

1928
01:55:40,960 --> 01:55:43,280
Speaker 1: to be a part of this cinematic murder spree.

1929
01:55:44,280 --> 01:55:50,200
Speaker 2: Wow strong language. Bruce from Portland shared this. I aspired

1930
01:55:50,200 --> 01:55:53,760
Speaker 2: to Tory Lightcap's moral courage until that day. I'm going

1931
01:55:53,840 --> 01:55:55,440
Speaker 2: with Rykert Williams. Okay.

1932
01:55:56,280 --> 01:55:58,960
Speaker 1: Jeremy Laffery says, my heart is telling me Rykert Williams,

1933
01:55:59,000 --> 01:56:01,360
Speaker 1: but my head told me to vot for Peel Khalujah.

1934
01:56:01,600 --> 01:56:03,040
Speaker 1: Though I think I can live in a world where

1935
01:56:03,080 --> 01:56:06,760
Speaker 1: we only got four Reiker Williams collaborations, mainly because their

1936
01:56:06,880 --> 01:56:09,400
Speaker 1: incredible works across the board, I'm not sure I could

1937
01:56:09,400 --> 01:56:12,839
Speaker 1: give up the idea of getting another Peel and Coluja work. Tonally,

1938
01:56:12,960 --> 01:56:16,760
Speaker 1: Khluja understands and executes Peel's idiosyncratic blend of bursts of

1939
01:56:16,840 --> 01:56:19,800
Speaker 1: humor and eruptions of violence with a plum. I'm a

1940
01:56:19,880 --> 01:56:21,720
Speaker 1: weak man. I have to see at least one more

1941
01:56:21,760 --> 01:56:25,760
Speaker 1: work from them before I'm seding this poll to another pairing.

1942
01:56:26,840 --> 01:56:30,000
Speaker 2: Tim from Denver said the relative youth of both Gerwig

1943
01:56:30,040 --> 01:56:32,400
Speaker 2: and Ronan help tip the balance for me, given that

1944
01:56:32,520 --> 01:56:36,920
Speaker 2: this is about future potential collaborations. Also that factor led

1945
01:56:36,960 --> 01:56:39,880
Speaker 2: me to downgrade Lanthemouse and Stone at this point. I

1946
01:56:39,920 --> 01:56:42,400
Speaker 2: wouldn't mind seeing them take a break from each other.

1947
01:56:43,480 --> 01:56:47,280
Speaker 1: I think we might concur Josh, Here's Bob McHugh. When

1948
01:56:47,280 --> 01:56:50,240
Speaker 1: I look at future and past collaborations between these teams,

1949
01:56:50,280 --> 01:56:53,160
Speaker 1: I find myself asking could someone else do this part?

1950
01:56:53,520 --> 01:56:55,640
Speaker 1: Would someone else do this part? And I just can't

1951
01:56:55,640 --> 01:56:58,800
Speaker 1: see anyone else filling the Emma Stone shaped hole for

1952
01:56:59,400 --> 01:57:02,560
Speaker 1: Yorgo's Landemos there's simply no actor with her star power

1953
01:57:02,640 --> 01:57:05,880
Speaker 1: that matches her freak or would even want to Given

1954
01:57:05,920 --> 01:57:08,800
Speaker 1: her status as a producer and likely draw for financing

1955
01:57:08,840 --> 01:57:10,600
Speaker 1: in his films, you have to wonder if his future

1956
01:57:10,680 --> 01:57:13,560
Speaker 1: weirdo ideas even get made without her, and I simply

1957
01:57:13,640 --> 01:57:17,240
Speaker 1: can't take that chance. Yourgo Stone gets my vote.

1958
01:57:18,640 --> 01:57:21,360
Speaker 2: Here's another note from Juan. I think the only true

1959
01:57:21,400 --> 01:57:24,000
Speaker 2: answer is when you consider which of these directors has

1960
01:57:24,040 --> 01:57:26,680
Speaker 2: brought out the best in the actors and vice versa.

1961
01:57:26,960 --> 01:57:29,800
Speaker 2: And while yes, we have had some unique and wonderful

1962
01:57:29,880 --> 01:57:33,440
Speaker 2: performances from Ray Fines thanks to Wes Anderson Michael B.

1963
01:57:33,600 --> 01:57:36,840
Speaker 2: Jordan has rarely seemed to be inspired as much as

1964
01:57:37,280 --> 01:57:39,760
Speaker 2: as he has when he works with Ryan Kugler, who

1965
01:57:39,960 --> 01:57:43,880
Speaker 2: even turned him into arguably the best MCU villain.

1966
01:57:44,440 --> 01:57:47,800
Speaker 1: Maybe so. Brett Merriman says, this one's easy. Every actor

1967
01:57:47,840 --> 01:57:50,000
Speaker 1: in this poll has made a great film and had

1968
01:57:50,000 --> 01:57:54,040
Speaker 1: a great performance away from their director, except Jordan. He

1969
01:57:54,240 --> 01:57:58,240
Speaker 1: needs Kugler badly, and so do we. Brett. Brett put

1970
01:57:58,320 --> 01:57:59,360
Speaker 1: that pretty succinctly.

1971
01:57:59,520 --> 01:58:02,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it might be onto something. STEVIEB shared this, I'll

1972
01:58:02,760 --> 01:58:05,320
Speaker 2: be forty next year, so naturally I managed to hurt

1973
01:58:05,360 --> 01:58:10,560
Speaker 2: my back in my sleep. Thanks, Stevie, B. I hope

1974
01:58:10,600 --> 01:58:12,000
Speaker 2: this relates to the poll eventually.

1975
01:58:12,200 --> 01:58:15,280
Speaker 1: Let's see the results that I feel sorry for him, Josh,

1976
01:58:15,400 --> 01:58:16,760
Speaker 1: and we do days.

1977
01:58:17,040 --> 01:58:21,560
Speaker 2: Of wandering around with uneven shoulders, a posture I suddenly

1978
01:58:21,640 --> 01:58:25,280
Speaker 2: recognized in the shower today as uncannily similar to Freddie Quell.

1979
01:58:25,360 --> 01:58:28,400
Speaker 2: Okay it is, I get it, Stevie. Yeah, and I

1980
01:58:28,480 --> 01:58:31,160
Speaker 2: hope you're feeling better. The iconic creation of Paul Thomas

1981
01:58:31,200 --> 01:58:33,840
Speaker 2: Anderson and Joaquin Phoenix. I already love that performance, but

1982
01:58:33,960 --> 01:58:38,240
Speaker 2: this small bout of involuntary method acting has only deep

1983
01:58:38,280 --> 01:58:40,760
Speaker 2: in my awe how physical Phoenix's work is. In The

1984
01:58:40,840 --> 01:58:45,680
Speaker 2: Master I remember Pta mentioning that Quell's signature twisted stance

1985
01:58:46,160 --> 01:58:49,360
Speaker 2: wasn't even discussed beforehand. It just appeared on camera when

1986
01:58:49,400 --> 01:58:52,520
Speaker 2: they started rolling. Another director might have asked him dial

1987
01:58:52,560 --> 01:58:54,960
Speaker 2: it back a bit, But with those two it became

1988
01:58:55,080 --> 01:58:59,400
Speaker 2: yet another moment of symbiotic, jazz like improvisation that somehow

1989
01:58:59,440 --> 01:59:01,400
Speaker 2: adds up to more than the sum of its parts.

1990
01:59:01,960 --> 01:59:03,640
Speaker 2: You know who's getting my vote?

1991
01:59:05,080 --> 01:59:10,600
Speaker 1: Joe from Brooklyn just Or is just about to blow

1992
01:59:10,640 --> 01:59:13,280
Speaker 1: the roof off this pole and explain why other is

1993
01:59:13,320 --> 01:59:16,680
Speaker 1: the right answer. I saw sentimental value last night in

1994
01:59:16,760 --> 01:59:20,480
Speaker 1: Midway through the words deeply flawed, flashed through my head,

1995
01:59:20,760 --> 01:59:24,960
Speaker 1: left off your pole, Yokum Trier and Ranata Rensfah with

1996
01:59:25,160 --> 01:59:27,280
Speaker 1: sentimental value in the Worst Person in the World. They

1997
01:59:27,320 --> 01:59:30,080
Speaker 1: have proven themselves to be the filmmakers most open to

1998
01:59:30,240 --> 01:59:34,560
Speaker 1: exploring all the messiness and contradictions that make us human.

1999
01:59:35,160 --> 01:59:38,800
Speaker 2: I like it so sentimental value in Brooklyn too great?

2000
01:59:39,200 --> 01:59:42,560
Speaker 2: This is yes, they just great. They do all right,

2001
01:59:42,600 --> 01:59:45,240
Speaker 2: here's r MP. If you're going to be expanding the

2002
01:59:45,320 --> 01:59:48,560
Speaker 2: number of options to where I'm just about out of fingers,

2003
01:59:48,680 --> 01:59:52,920
Speaker 2: could you maybe include some duos who don't primarily work

2004
01:59:52,960 --> 01:59:55,760
Speaker 2: in English that needn't make the poll obscure. You had,

2005
01:59:55,800 --> 01:59:59,680
Speaker 2: for instance, the Bong June Ho Song Kang Ho Doo

2006
02:00:00,120 --> 02:00:05,320
Speaker 2: sitting there. Oh my goodness, deeply, I'm not gonna.

2007
02:00:05,240 --> 02:00:07,560
Speaker 1: I bowed out of this pol Yeah, you can't. You

2008
02:00:07,600 --> 02:00:08,120
Speaker 1: can't complain.

2009
02:00:08,200 --> 02:00:11,800
Speaker 2: You cannot complain, Yes, Brett.

2010
02:00:11,560 --> 02:00:14,520
Speaker 1: Maski closes us out. I'd rather see these directors and

2011
02:00:14,600 --> 02:00:18,160
Speaker 1: actors work with new people. Okay, fine, but I jumped

2012
02:00:18,200 --> 02:00:22,760
Speaker 1: to see another Edgar Wright Simon Pegg Nick Frost collaboration.

2013
02:00:23,520 --> 02:00:26,800
Speaker 2: Hmmm, I think that sounds great, especially after The Running Man.

2014
02:00:27,160 --> 02:00:27,320
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2015
02:00:27,480 --> 02:00:31,680
Speaker 1: Good point. It's time for another deeply flawed film spotting poll.

2016
02:00:31,760 --> 02:00:34,800
Speaker 1: I like this one. Though it's easier, it's certainly easier.

2017
02:00:34,840 --> 02:00:37,120
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it's less flawed, at least until the

2018
02:00:37,160 --> 02:00:40,680
Speaker 1: feedback comes pouring in. That's usually how it works. We

2019
02:00:40,800 --> 02:00:43,600
Speaker 1: are going to be sharing our performances of twenty twenty

2020
02:00:43,640 --> 02:00:45,480
Speaker 1: five picks in a couple of weeks, so we do

2021
02:00:45,600 --> 02:00:50,600
Speaker 1: have a performance related poll. We are focusing on scene

2022
02:00:50,840 --> 02:00:54,720
Speaker 1: stealers of the year. So the prompt that producer Sam

2023
02:00:54,800 --> 02:00:58,840
Speaker 1: has fashioned for you is this not their movie, but

2024
02:00:59,000 --> 02:01:03,000
Speaker 1: they made it their movie. Choose one twenty twenty five

2025
02:01:03,160 --> 02:01:08,320
Speaker 1: scene or scenes stealer, Josh give them the options.

2026
02:01:09,120 --> 02:01:12,040
Speaker 2: I will with pleasure. I gave Sam a hard time

2027
02:01:12,480 --> 02:01:15,120
Speaker 2: for the previous poll, so I just want to say

2028
02:01:15,160 --> 02:01:17,680
Speaker 2: I saw this show up in slack and was like,

2029
02:01:18,080 --> 02:01:21,560
Speaker 2: I think I just had fun love it. I'm all in, okay,

2030
02:01:21,640 --> 02:01:25,680
Speaker 2: and here we go with your options. Amy Madigan Weapons,

2031
02:01:26,320 --> 02:01:30,920
Speaker 2: Venicio del Toro, one battle after another, Marisa Abela from

2032
02:01:31,000 --> 02:01:35,240
Speaker 2: Black Bag, Michael Sarah the Phoenician Scheme, Ray finds twenty

2033
02:01:35,280 --> 02:01:40,880
Speaker 2: eight years later, win Me Mosako from Sinners and other.

2034
02:01:41,720 --> 02:01:46,960
Speaker 1: Okay, do you have a choice, Josh, not their choice,

2035
02:01:47,360 --> 02:01:51,400
Speaker 1: not their movie, but they made it. Yeah movie. I

2036
02:01:51,480 --> 02:01:53,440
Speaker 1: feel like there's I feel like there is a right

2037
02:01:53,520 --> 02:01:54,240
Speaker 1: answer to this one.

2038
02:01:54,320 --> 02:01:58,040
Speaker 2: I really do too. But it's so what I'm weighing here.

2039
02:01:58,080 --> 02:02:01,120
Speaker 2: And we talked about this briefly on Slack how the

2040
02:02:01,240 --> 02:02:06,640
Speaker 2: Oscar noms factory, like, should if they're potentially in the

2041
02:02:06,760 --> 02:02:08,880
Speaker 2: running for an Oscar? Should that set this aside because

2042
02:02:08,880 --> 02:02:12,480
Speaker 2: you're not really a scene stealer, and I don't think

2043
02:02:12,520 --> 02:02:16,400
Speaker 2: that needs to be a huge factor. But in making

2044
02:02:16,560 --> 02:02:20,160
Speaker 2: my choice, I'm looking at this list and saying, do

2045
02:02:20,320 --> 02:02:22,480
Speaker 2: I vote for someone who I am also going to

2046
02:02:22,520 --> 02:02:27,280
Speaker 2: have as a supporting actor in my personal voting.

2047
02:02:27,600 --> 02:02:30,120
Speaker 1: I hear you, but I would say this, I think

2048
02:02:30,160 --> 02:02:32,920
Speaker 1: you should play by the rules of the poll. If

2049
02:02:32,960 --> 02:02:34,600
Speaker 1: they're an option, you know.

2050
02:02:35,240 --> 02:02:38,200
Speaker 2: Vote for them. Okay. I like that, and I love

2051
02:02:38,360 --> 02:02:40,560
Speaker 2: the phrasing. I love not their movie, but they made

2052
02:02:40,600 --> 02:02:43,200
Speaker 2: it their movie. And if i'm if I'm just going

2053
02:02:43,280 --> 02:02:46,040
Speaker 2: by that, like, don't overthink it, go by that. Benizio

2054
02:02:46,120 --> 02:02:50,920
Speaker 2: del Toro. Absolutely, I mean it's the first phase you

2055
02:02:51,040 --> 02:02:53,360
Speaker 2: could say that title of that movie to me in

2056
02:02:53,520 --> 02:02:56,760
Speaker 2: forty years and I may not remember my middle name,

2057
02:02:57,120 --> 02:03:00,480
Speaker 2: but I will remember Benisio del Toro's face, and I

2058
02:03:00,520 --> 02:03:01,040
Speaker 2: think I'll.

2059
02:03:00,960 --> 02:03:04,840
Speaker 1: Think about I'll think about him being put through a

2060
02:03:04,920 --> 02:03:07,400
Speaker 1: field sobriety test on the side of the road, or

2061
02:03:07,760 --> 02:03:09,880
Speaker 1: you know, doing any number of things that he does

2062
02:03:10,400 --> 02:03:12,920
Speaker 1: in that film. I'm kind of worried actually about the

2063
02:03:13,040 --> 02:03:16,240
Speaker 1: flaw of this poll being that del Toro runs away

2064
02:03:16,280 --> 02:03:19,000
Speaker 1: with it now that that probably won't happen, because I

2065
02:03:19,040 --> 02:03:20,600
Speaker 1: do think Madigan is going to get a lot of

2066
02:03:20,680 --> 02:03:23,320
Speaker 1: votes as well, and you you alluded to this. Sam

2067
02:03:23,400 --> 02:03:27,920
Speaker 1: originally did want to leave out potential Oscar nominees, and

2068
02:03:28,280 --> 02:03:30,640
Speaker 1: that that would make sense. There'd be logic to leaving

2069
02:03:30,680 --> 02:03:34,480
Speaker 1: out people who otherwise aren't or or only including people

2070
02:03:34,520 --> 02:03:37,920
Speaker 1: who otherwise aren't going to get maybe some love this year,

2071
02:03:38,320 --> 02:03:41,080
Speaker 1: and that would that would be Marissa Abela, who I've

2072
02:03:41,120 --> 02:03:43,840
Speaker 1: praised quite a bit for Black Bag, Sarah for the

2073
02:03:43,880 --> 02:03:46,440
Speaker 1: Phoenician Scheme, who we both loved. I do think right

2074
02:03:46,600 --> 02:03:48,680
Speaker 1: Ray Fines is quite good and twenty eight years later,

2075
02:03:49,440 --> 02:03:53,640
Speaker 1: and we both love one meme Masako in Sinners. Fortunately,

2076
02:03:54,480 --> 02:03:57,280
Speaker 1: if you do look at some of the projections, and

2077
02:03:57,520 --> 02:03:59,920
Speaker 1: some have popped up in my social media feed. Recently,

2078
02:04:00,560 --> 02:04:05,560
Speaker 1: it looks like Madigan, Masako, and Del Toro are all

2079
02:04:05,720 --> 02:04:07,920
Speaker 1: definitely in the mix. Now, whether or not all three

2080
02:04:08,040 --> 02:04:11,600
Speaker 1: get nominated, we'll have to see, but they're all in

2081
02:04:11,680 --> 02:04:15,240
Speaker 1: the mix. So if you just go by the options

2082
02:04:15,280 --> 02:04:18,280
Speaker 1: that Sam gave us, I don't know how Del Toro

2083
02:04:18,440 --> 02:04:21,120
Speaker 1: didn't make one battle after another his movie.

2084
02:04:22,000 --> 02:04:26,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, disregard the Oscar talk and just read

2085
02:04:26,240 --> 02:04:29,040
Speaker 2: that description made it their movie, and go with your gut.

2086
02:04:30,200 --> 02:04:32,120
Speaker 1: You can vote in that poll and leave a comment

2087
02:04:32,320 --> 02:04:36,120
Speaker 1: at film spotting dot net. We will share results and

2088
02:04:36,240 --> 02:04:39,120
Speaker 1: your feedback in a couple of weeks. Josh, that is

2089
02:04:39,440 --> 02:04:40,040
Speaker 1: our show.

2090
02:04:40,800 --> 02:04:43,120
Speaker 2: If you want to connect with us on social media,

2091
02:04:43,200 --> 02:04:46,760
Speaker 2: you can find Adam and the show on Instagram, Facebook, letterbox,

2092
02:04:47,400 --> 02:04:51,080
Speaker 2: and YouTube at film spotting. I'm at all those places

2093
02:04:51,240 --> 02:04:55,480
Speaker 2: as well, Larsen on film. We are independently produced and

2094
02:04:55,760 --> 02:04:58,520
Speaker 2: listeners supported. You can support the show by joining the

2095
02:04:58,600 --> 02:05:02,280
Speaker 2: film Spotting Family over at film spottingfamily dot com. That

2096
02:05:02,360 --> 02:05:04,800
Speaker 2: way you can listen early and add free. You'll get

2097
02:05:04,840 --> 02:05:09,560
Speaker 2: a weekly newsletter, monthly bonus episodes like the just released

2098
02:05:09,800 --> 02:05:13,360
Speaker 2: Ask Us Anything episode, and access to the entire show

2099
02:05:13,520 --> 02:05:16,440
Speaker 2: archive for show t shirts and other merch. Go to

2100
02:05:16,520 --> 02:05:18,320
Speaker 2: filmspotting dot Net slash shop.

2101
02:05:18,880 --> 02:05:23,320
Speaker 1: In that film spotting archive, you can hear scintillating content

2102
02:05:23,560 --> 02:05:26,560
Speaker 1: like the all of nine minutes we spent on Wicked

2103
02:05:26,640 --> 02:05:27,040
Speaker 1: Part one.

2104
02:05:27,880 --> 02:05:29,720
Speaker 2: Hey, that was it. I think that was only me,

2105
02:05:30,160 --> 02:05:32,040
Speaker 2: So that's kind of a that's a shot.

2106
02:05:32,160 --> 02:05:34,200
Speaker 1: Might have been Yeah, No, it might have been. You're right,

2107
02:05:34,360 --> 02:05:36,040
Speaker 1: you're right. I don't know if I contributed to that.

2108
02:05:36,200 --> 02:05:39,520
Speaker 1: That was episode nine ninety one out in limited release.

2109
02:05:39,920 --> 02:05:43,320
Speaker 1: Chloe Jao's Hamnet with Jesse Buckley and Paul Meskel. That's

2110
02:05:43,360 --> 02:05:46,800
Speaker 1: in Chicago and elsewhere this weekend. It's expanding wider in

2111
02:05:46,880 --> 02:05:50,200
Speaker 1: the following weeks. Ryan Johnson's new one, Wake Up, dead

2112
02:05:50,280 --> 02:05:52,760
Speaker 1: Man and Knives Out Mystery is in select theaters. That's

2113
02:05:52,800 --> 02:05:56,240
Speaker 1: coming to Netflix on December twelfth. Out wide, you can

2114
02:05:56,280 --> 02:06:01,280
Speaker 1: see Zutopia two. You know, Josh, that was that was another.

2115
02:06:01,440 --> 02:06:06,120
Speaker 1: I thought Zutopia one was a political allegory for our times.

2116
02:06:06,240 --> 02:06:09,480
Speaker 1: Maybe z Utopia two will add to the mix of

2117
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Speaker 1: your twenty twenty five resistance movies. We'll see.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to check it out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah or not, well, who knows, if we'll get to that.

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Speaker 1: Eternity is a romantic comedy set in the Afterlife with

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Olsen, Miles Teller, and Callum Turner. Next week here

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Speaker 1: on Film Spotting Live from Ohiowa City, Michael Phillips and

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Speaker 1: I share our top five movies adapted from Iowa writers.

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Speaker 1: And I know maybe maybe you see that, you hear that,

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Speaker 1: you see it pop up in your feed and you're like,

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Speaker 1: what do I care about Iowa writers? I promise you,

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Speaker 1: or I think I can promise you. Our pics are interesting,

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Speaker 1: the movies are good. Forget about the Iowa part if

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Speaker 1: that doesn't seem to really excite you. The movies are

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Speaker 1: are good, and we hopefully have some interesting things to

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Speaker 1: say about them, So tune in to that top five

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Speaker 1: with myself and Michael.

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Speaker 2: Next week, there's Zootopia three out of four stars at

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Speaker 2: Larson on film dot Cokay. Film Spotting is produced by

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02:07:06,120 --> 02:07:09,320
Speaker 2: Golden Joe Desso and Sam Van Holgren. Without Sam and

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Speaker 2: Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our production assistant is

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Speaker 2: Sophie Companar. Special thanks to everyone at wb easy Chicago.

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Speaker 2: More information is available at wbez dot org. For film Spotting,

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Speaker 2: I'm Josh Larson.

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02:07:23,000 --> 02:07:25,040
Speaker 1: And I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 3: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

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Speaker 1: The burn film Spotting is listener supported. Join the film

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02:07:48,320 --> 02:07:51,480
Speaker 1: Spotting Family at filmspotting family dot com and get access

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02:07:51,520 --> 02:07:55,200
Speaker 1: to ad free episodes, monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and,

2145
02:07:55,360 --> 02:07:57,600
Speaker 1: for the first time, all in one place, the entire

2146
02:07:57,920 --> 02:08:00,840
Speaker 1: film spotting archive going back to two thousand five. That's

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02:08:00,840 --> 02:08:02,600
Speaker 1: a film Spotting Family dot com

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Speaker 2: Panoply mm HM