1
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Speaker 1: Last time on ear witness, I believe I.

2
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Speaker 2: Got a phone call from someone in the room saying

3
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Speaker 2: they heard gunshots.

4
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Speaker 3: Boom, small caliber gun.

5
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Speaker 4: They want a big caliber boom.

6
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Speaker 5: About the second time, I said, I've been with them.

7
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Speaker 1: That was a gun.

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Speaker 4: When you got a deafinite share of killed over here,

9
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Speaker 4: it's high profile and people are expecting things out here.

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Speaker 6: Tavarra Johnson. I remember he was pushing a Drinka's four

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Speaker 6: in the wheelchair. They came together.

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Speaker 1: I had saw too far. Was pushing Adrika's in the club.

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Speaker 7: Me and one of my girlfriends they named Latanya, Me

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Speaker 7: and hr and two two guys are supposed to hook

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Speaker 7: up that night.

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Speaker 5: One is twenty one.

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Speaker 7: They called him Dre.

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Speaker 5: He's in a wheelchair.

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Speaker 4: Not only do you want somebody in custody. The captain

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Speaker 4: is stelling in the Liew town we need to get

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Speaker 4: this done. The sheriff is stelling the captain, we need

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Speaker 4: to get this done.

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Speaker 7: I think he's taking hand how oft and we went there?

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Speaker 8: So what she's saying, she was there and I was there.

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Speaker 5: That's a life, that's a lot.

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Speaker 9: That's a shame.

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Speaker 1: When police come looking for our dregas Ford, his mom

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Speaker 1: calls Richard Jeffy, who had helped them in the past.

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Speaker 2: Ar Dregas was in a wheelchair, as you know, and

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Speaker 2: his mother brought him over to the lions Den to

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Speaker 2: the Sheriff's department.

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Speaker 1: Jeffy's a trial lawyer, and he looks like one, but

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Speaker 1: not in a slick way. He's slender in a rumpled

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Speaker 1: suit with gray hair and glasses. The day Ardregas went

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Speaker 1: to the Sheriff's office for questioning, Jaffy is just beginning

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Speaker 1: a trial in a different case, but before he goes

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Speaker 1: to court that day, he gets a phone call from

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Speaker 1: the Sheriff's office.

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Speaker 2: I was called by a Deputy Blanton and he said

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Speaker 2: I heard that you were representing Ardregas Ford and I went, yes,

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Speaker 2: I was just contacted by the family, but I don't

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Speaker 2: know anything about the case. And he said, well, look,

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Speaker 2: he's just a witness. I mean, he just knows stuff.

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Speaker 2: And I knew Deputy Blanton, and I believed if he

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Speaker 2: had information involving a police shooting, I wanted to help,

46
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Speaker 2: and Ardregus did too, and against my best judgment, I

47
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Speaker 2: allowed Ardragas to be interviewed by him and several other

48
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Speaker 2: Jefferson County detectives, So.

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Speaker 1: Our Dregas is questioned alone while his attorney, Jaffe, heads

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Speaker 1: to the courthouse.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps around four thirty or five when we broke, I

52
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Speaker 2: found out that Ardregis was still there, so he'd been

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Speaker 2: there all day, like maybe nine hours, and I was

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Speaker 2: extremely distraught, so I hurried over there. It was just

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Speaker 2: across the street, and when I got into the very

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Speaker 2: large room, it was buzzing with detectives and police officers,

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Speaker 2: and you could feel the attention it was. It was

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Speaker 2: enormous amount of.

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Speaker 1: Tension there in the crowd of police officers and detectives.

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Speaker 1: Jaffe notices Jefferson County's district attorney, a man named David Barber.

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Speaker 1: He's in charge of all state prosecutions in Alabama's law

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Speaker 1: Urgest jurisdiction and is working with police in the Deputy

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Speaker 1: Hardy murder investigation. When Jeffie sees Barber, he walks over

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Speaker 1: to him.

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Speaker 2: And I said, what's going on with our Dragas And

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Speaker 2: David said, well, we know he was there and he's

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Speaker 2: not telling us the truth, so we're going to charge him.

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Speaker 2: He can either be a witness or a defendant. I said, well,

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Speaker 2: what are you saying and he said, just that witness

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Speaker 2: are defendant. It's his choice.

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Speaker 1: The choice detectives are giving our dragis either he gives

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Speaker 1: them information about Hardy's murder or he'll be charged with

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Speaker 1: a crime.

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Speaker 2: If I had any idea that they thought he was there,

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Speaker 2: I nor any lawyer would allow their client in any case,

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Speaker 2: especially we're a definetly case, to be interviewed by law enforcement.

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Speaker 2: They just wouldn't allow it. Frankly, I felt a little

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Speaker 2: inept and a little foolish, as well as a little deceived.

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Speaker 2: And I said, well, what can I do to help?

80
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Speaker 2: And he said, we'll go in there and get him

81
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Speaker 2: to tell the truth. And I said, well, then you're

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Speaker 2: going to have to give him immunity.

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Speaker 1: According to Jeffy, David Barber offers ar Dregas immunity from

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Speaker 1: prosecution in exchange for naming to Forrest as the shooter.

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Speaker 1: Jeffe says Barber hand writes the immunity agreement on a

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Speaker 1: piece of paper and gives it to him.

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Speaker 2: David's word was good with me. And I walked into

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Speaker 2: a little office where Ardregas was in his wheelchair sitting there.

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Speaker 2: Didn't look happy, certainly wasn't happy with me at all.

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Speaker 2: And I said, what's going on? And he said they

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Speaker 2: were screaming at me, and they made me tell the

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Speaker 2: story over and over and over again, and even tell

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Speaker 2: it backwards. And I said, well, this is an immunity agreement.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we should talk about it. And he reads it

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Speaker 2: and he's said, so they want me to lie. He said, look,

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Speaker 2: mister Jaffy, I wasn't there, and I've got a dozen

97
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Speaker 2: or more alibi witnesses that will testify to that I

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Speaker 2: know nothing about it. Zero. I said, okay, well, they

99
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Speaker 2: think that you're not a shooter, but you were there,

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Speaker 2: and they think to Forrest is the shooter. And he

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Speaker 2: looked at me and he said, listen, I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to lie for anybody. To Forrest and I are close,

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Speaker 2: but we're not that close. He's not family. I would

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Speaker 2: happy to give to Forrest up in a heartbeat, except

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Speaker 2: it would be a lie. And I'm not going to lie.

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Speaker 2: That never happens, even on a theft case, even on

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Speaker 2: a possession of marijuana case, even on a hubcap case.

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Speaker 2: Everybody flips sadly enough to save themselves. Yeah, he said,

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Speaker 2: no way, not gonna lie. I said, all right, Well,

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Speaker 2: they're going to take you to jail. They're going to

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Speaker 2: wheel you to jail, and they're going to charge you

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Speaker 2: with capital murder, which is definenally offense. And he goes,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't there. Tell him to take me to jail,

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Speaker 2: and they did.

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Speaker 1: The next day, the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office announces formal

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Speaker 1: charges in the murder of Deputy Bill Hardy.

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Speaker 10: Charged with capital murder of a law enforcement officer our

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Speaker 10: twenty two year old tor Forrest Johnson, twenty one year

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Speaker 10: old are Dragis Ford, twenty three year old Oman Berry,

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Speaker 10: and twenty one year old Quinn tes Wilson. They are

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Speaker 10: held without bond.

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Speaker 1: All four people charged with capital murder are young black men.

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Speaker 1: Based on the changing stories of Yolanda Chambers, detectives believe

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Speaker 1: at least six people were in the parking lot behind

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Speaker 1: the hotel when Hardy was shot and Latanya to Forrest

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Speaker 1: and Ardregis and the two other people Yolanda identified in photos,

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Speaker 1: Omar Barry and Quintez Wilson. The headline and the Birmingham

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Speaker 1: News reads police confident they got right men and deputy

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Speaker 1: slaying sounds like an open and shut investigation, but pull

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Speaker 1: back the curtain or in this case, open up the

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Speaker 1: investigative file and the inner workings tell a different story.

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Speaker 1: I'm Beth Shelburne. This is ear witness. Chapter four. Witness

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Speaker 1: or defendant the tactic the state uses with our Dregas,

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Speaker 1: telling him he can either be a witness or a defendant.

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Speaker 1: Detective Tony Richardson repeats it over and over during Deputy

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Speaker 1: Hardy's murder investigation.

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Speaker 5: You are in a position now to be one of

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Speaker 5: two things. Okay. You can either be a witness or

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Speaker 5: you can be a defendant. You know, you can either

140
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Speaker 5: be a witness or you can be a dependent. Can

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Speaker 5: only be either a witness or you can be a defendant. Okay.

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Speaker 11: It's your choice. You make it. You tell me what

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Speaker 11: you want to do.

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Speaker 1: One of the people Tony Richardson uses this tactic on

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Speaker 1: is Yolanda Chamber's friend Latanya Henderson, who was in the

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Speaker 1: car with DeForest Ardregas and Yolanda the night Deputy Hardy

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Speaker 1: was killed.

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Speaker 11: Natanya, I am working a homicide, okay, and in working

149
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Speaker 11: this homicide, people have choices. It's choice whether you want

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Speaker 11: to be a witness or you want to.

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Speaker 5: Be a defendant.

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Speaker 1: Latanya is sixteen years old. She's in high school and

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Speaker 1: lives with her mother and brother, and as she's questioned

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Speaker 1: about the night of the murder, she's alone in the

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Speaker 1: room with detectives, no lawyer, no parent present.

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Speaker 5: I'm not saying anything to entice you to say something.

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Speaker 11: You tell me what's the truth, and tell and you

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Speaker 11: tell me that's the truth, and I'm gonna take it

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Speaker 11: like that.

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Speaker 5: But I do want you to know.

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Speaker 11: That some people are going to be witnesses, some are

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Speaker 11: going to be defendants.

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Speaker 5: Defendant's going to jail.

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Speaker 12: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Now, After giving Latania this choice, Detective Richardson asks her

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Speaker 1: where she was that night.

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Speaker 11: Were you at Neil or around at hotel when this

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Speaker 11: officer was shot?

169
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Speaker 5: No, sir, okay, and you've never been there before. No,

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Speaker 5: I haven't care.

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Speaker 11: And you have no independent knowledge of what happened to

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Speaker 11: this office.

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Speaker 5: No, I haven't.

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Speaker 1: Despite being told she's a suspect and a murder, Latania

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Speaker 1: does not change her story, but she also doesn't seem

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Speaker 1: to understand the rules of the game detectives are playing.

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Speaker 1: She asks Detective Richardson to explain that's.

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Speaker 5: A question and is defendent as someone is charged.

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Speaker 11: With the crime.

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Speaker 5: Well, no, no, no, I'm a non defendant. No, all right,

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Speaker 5: so you want.

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Speaker 1: To be Latanya has to ask what it means to

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Speaker 1: be a defendant, then says she doesn't want to be

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Speaker 1: charged with the crime. At one point, Richardson stops the

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Speaker 1: tape like he's done in Yolanda's interviews, and restarts it

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Speaker 1: after a five minute break.

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Speaker 5: You know where the Crown starney is? I don't. Would

188
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Speaker 5: you know it if you saw it? No, I have

189
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Speaker 5: never seen it. I have never been.

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Speaker 11: Were you in any hotel parking lot that night where

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Speaker 11: shots were back?

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Speaker 5: No?

193
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Speaker 11: Okay, it's sort of Tony rich and justin kind of Shayshaw.

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Speaker 5: As the time, it's three fifty pm. This is going

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Speaker 5: to conclude this interview.

196
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Speaker 1: In a lot of the interviews that you did in

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Speaker 1: this case, you and Sergeant Salter presented a choice. You

198
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Speaker 1: can be a witness or you can be a defendant.

199
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,760
Speaker 1: Tell me about presenting that to somebody that you're interviewing.

200
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Speaker 1: That seems like a lot of pressure to put on someone.

201
00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,439
Speaker 3: Well, at certain times you have to put pressure on somebody.

202
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Speaker 4: That's just a that's just a strategy, that's that's just

203
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Speaker 4: an investigative too.

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Speaker 5: That's that's nothing.

205
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Speaker 4: So I look at you and I say, look, you

206
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Speaker 4: can either be a witness or you can be a defendant.

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Speaker 4: It's up to you.

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Speaker 3: And that's the truth.

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Speaker 1: What if the person is neither a witness nor a

210
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Speaker 1: defendant in the case, though.

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Speaker 3: Well sometimes you say that trying to determine if they're

212
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,520
Speaker 3: a witness or defendant, you know, particularly if you don't know,

213
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,319
Speaker 3: and if they continue to maintain I know nothing, at

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Speaker 3: some point I'm gonna say, Okay, I got you.

215
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Speaker 1: But for Latania, there was never an okay, I got

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00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,600
Speaker 1: you from investigators. Even though she explains she doesn't know

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00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,920
Speaker 1: anything about the crime, detectives follow through with their threat

218
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:33,679
Speaker 1: and make her a defendant. One month after Tony Richardson

219
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 1: questions Latania, the state charges her with hindering prosecution in Alabama.

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00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,920
Speaker 1: That's a felony at sixteen years old. Police take Latania

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00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:49,800
Speaker 1: Henderson to adult jail, where she stays for five months.

222
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Speaker 13: Yo, Latania Henderson, I mean even if she had been there, Yeah,

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Speaker 13: even if Yolanda's story was true, what she had defendant on,

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00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,760
Speaker 13: you know, what has she done?

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Speaker 1: This is Derek Drennan, a lawyer who worked with Richard

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00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,200
Speaker 1: Jeffy in representing ardregis.

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00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,719
Speaker 13: Ford, and I don't know. I think they charged with

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00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:21,800
Speaker 13: hindering prosecution, maybe because because basically she wasn't telling the

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00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:23,400
Speaker 13: lies that Yolanda was telling.

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00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,800
Speaker 1: A few years later, Latania says that she was hysterical

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00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,040
Speaker 1: when they took her to jail, desperate to get detectives

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00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,640
Speaker 1: to believe her. She says that she suffered from stress

233
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:47,440
Speaker 1: and lost too much weight. I really wanted to talk

234
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,720
Speaker 1: to Latania to hear how this experience shaped her, and

235
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,560
Speaker 1: we tried for months to track her down, knocking on doors,

236
00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:01,160
Speaker 1: calling possible numbers, combing social media, but we never could connect.

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00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,840
Speaker 1: I was able to talk to her uncle, Herman Henderson,

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00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:09,400
Speaker 1: a pastor in Birmingham. He told me Latania and Yolanda

239
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,000
Speaker 1: had been friends since they were babies, but this case

240
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:18,160
Speaker 1: ended their friendship and Latanya was scarred by the entire experience.

241
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:25,280
Speaker 1: Her trust in other people eroded. Yolanda Chambers and Latania

242
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:30,560
Speaker 1: Henderson made different choices when faced with threats from police.

243
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,480
Speaker 1: There's a damned if you do, damned if you don't

244
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:39,320
Speaker 1: dynamic and how they were each impacted. Yolanda became a

245
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:44,280
Speaker 1: witness for detectives avoiding jail time during Hardy's murder investigation,

246
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,080
Speaker 1: but entered a pattern of exploitation that may have led

247
00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:55,400
Speaker 1: to her murder. Latania became a defendant for telling the truth,

248
00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,560
Speaker 1: she didn't have any information to give, and detectives her

249
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:09,040
Speaker 1: to jail. Both Yolanda and Latanya ended up traumatized and hurt.

250
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,680
Speaker 1: And as I think through how detectives treated these witnesses

251
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,920
Speaker 1: and the suspects of Harty's murder, I keep coming back

252
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,359
Speaker 1: to this one thing that Tony Richardson said.

253
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,720
Speaker 4: The best thing that a person probably can do for

254
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,240
Speaker 4: themselves that's suspected of a crime is do not talk

255
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,120
Speaker 4: to thebout these period.

256
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,400
Speaker 1: Now that's really interesting coming from a retired detective.

257
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:36,720
Speaker 3: But that's the truth.

258
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,720
Speaker 1: Detectives are moving ahead with the theory of the crime

259
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,960
Speaker 1: that Yolanda Chambers gives them and her interrogations, even though

260
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,879
Speaker 1: the theory isn't supported by what hotel witnesses saw and

261
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,520
Speaker 1: heard the night of the murder. So what were detectives missing,

262
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:22,160
Speaker 1: what evidence was available, and was there anything else they

263
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,399
Speaker 1: should have looked at but didn't because they decided to

264
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:30,359
Speaker 1: stick with Yolanda as their key witness. Let's back up

265
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:35,359
Speaker 1: to the moment Hardy was shot. We know officers began

266
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:41,040
Speaker 1: their investigation by talking to hotel guests actual confirmed witnesses

267
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:45,320
Speaker 1: who were staying at the Crown Sterling Suites. Several people

268
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,120
Speaker 1: heard the shots and looked out their window right after

269
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,680
Speaker 1: it happened, like Marshall, Kelly Cummings. The Keebler Cookie.

270
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:57,119
Speaker 9: Guy Fallin is an interview with mister Marshall, Kelly Cummings,

271
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,880
Speaker 9: What Collins is, and Paul by Kedler.

272
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,960
Speaker 1: This interview was recorded about two and a half hours

273
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,800
Speaker 1: after Hardy was shot. Cummings says he saw someone get

274
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,120
Speaker 1: into a car and drive away from the hotel right

275
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,040
Speaker 1: after he heard the shots fired.

276
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 4: Immediately seen the save a shot wrung at I pulled

277
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,359
Speaker 4: the cartain back and looked out and that's when I

278
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,000
Speaker 4: saw the car down below me.

279
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:27,200
Speaker 5: I saw the a person.

280
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,920
Speaker 1: Cummings says he saw the person close the driver's side door.

281
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 3: I looked at closing winch door.

282
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:36,800
Speaker 5: The driver shot.

283
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,439
Speaker 1: He saw a copper colored or light brown car with

284
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,520
Speaker 1: a vinyl top slowly back out of the parking spot

285
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,960
Speaker 1: and drive away with the headlights off.

286
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,160
Speaker 9: Did you think it was a dark copper.

287
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:51,879
Speaker 5: Or light brond Yes?

288
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:56,360
Speaker 1: Sir, And there was another witness in a different hotel

289
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,680
Speaker 1: room who also looked out his window after he heard

290
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,040
Speaker 1: the shots.

291
00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:02,679
Speaker 9: I we heard a shot.

292
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:03,879
Speaker 12: I jumped up.

293
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,760
Speaker 9: I justly as doaged my head out.

294
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,600
Speaker 1: The night of the murder, Leon Calvin was staying in

295
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,280
Speaker 1: room six' eleven with his Wife. Annie the two of

296
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 1: them were in. Bed he was WATCHING tv and she

297
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,720
Speaker 1: was reading the. Newspaper they heard the first shot And

298
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,960
Speaker 1: leon Told annie he thought it was a car. Backfiring

299
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 1: you heard a.

300
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 5: Shot?

301
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,840
Speaker 13: Bang tell me how long after this it?

302
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 4: Bang?

303
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 5: Bang, okay so Just i'll second or. So.

304
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 1: Yeah after the second, Shot calvin went to the window

305
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,919
Speaker 1: to see what was going. On seeing the.

306
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 9: Car down by the bag of the, motel he walked up,

307
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,480
Speaker 9: beside came round in front of the, car and got

308
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 9: in the.

309
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 1: Car calvin's description of the car and what the car

310
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,520
Speaker 1: did is it left the parking lot matches the details

311
00:19:58,840 --> 00:19:59,679
Speaker 1: given By Marshall.

312
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 9: COMMING i told him he was there was a dog collored,

313
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 9: gold all, brown with a kind of maroon looking top

314
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 9: with a sun.

315
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 1: Roping Both cummings And calvin say the car was a

316
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 1: four door brown gold or copper sedan with a maroon.

317
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 1: Top that's so. Specific they both say it was the

318
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 1: only car leaving the parking lot right after shots were.

319
00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 1: Fired what these witnesses saw doesn't match the theory of the.

320
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:37,439
Speaker 1: Murder detectives go With.

321
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:39,960
Speaker 5: Moni.

322
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 1: Golo ardregis describes his car to detectives the day he's.

323
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 1: Arrested he was driving a two door black nineteen seventy

324
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:55,880
Speaker 1: One Monte, carlo we'll call, it and he had installed

325
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 1: Flow master, mufflers so it made a, loud rumbling.

326
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 4: SOUND i got like.

327
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,879
Speaker 5: Flow mass on my. Cost, uh you got these floor masters? Loud?

328
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 1: Okay people could Hear ardregas's car coming from blocks. Away

329
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 1: To forest tells detectives that when they picked Up, latanya

330
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 1: they actually waited for her in an alley because they

331
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,120
Speaker 1: didn't want to wake up the entire. House But colvin

332
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: And cummings say that the light brown or copper colored

333
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,880
Speaker 1: car quietly drove out of the parking, lot and there's

334
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 1: an even bigger. Discrepancy not don, O i'll drive a door.

335
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 1: Ome the driver's side door On ardregas's very loud Black

336
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 1: Monte carlo was. Broken it did not. Open Ar dregis

337
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: and To forrest tell this to Detectives Drea do moo

338
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 1: o at.

339
00:21:55,560 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 8: Doo del the driver domo O in all.

340
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: Investigation impounded Are dregus's car and confirmed the driver's side

341
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: door didn't. Open Detective Tony richardson would later testify to,

342
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:14,120
Speaker 1: this but Both calvin And cummings say that someone got

343
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 1: in the driver's side of the car and quietly drove

344
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 1: away same.

345
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 5: Name he walked from the patam's side round in front

346
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 5: of the car to the draw side The.

347
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: Gadian there were other guests at the hotel who spotted

348
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 1: cars leaving the area around this, time but their descriptions

349
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 1: were all. Different the only consistent descriptions of the getaway

350
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 1: car came From cummings And, calvin two people who went

351
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: to their hotel room windows after hearing shots and looked

352
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 1: down into the parking. Lot the investigative file shows that

353
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 1: police tried to find the car see By calvin And,

354
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 1: cummings But Tony richardson would eventually tell a grand jury

355
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,119
Speaker 1: the search was a wild goose chase and that the

356
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: car didn't. Exist and there's something even more significant about.

357
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 1: This other hotel, Witness Leon. Calvin he gives police a

358
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: basic description of the man he saw five foot, ten

359
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: medium build who got into the car and drove.

360
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 8: Away, yeah a black.

361
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 9: And white driver shirt and it looked like he had

362
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 9: count of bee catchy of.

363
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: Summer calvin describes the man as wearing a black and

364
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: white shirt and khaki or cream. Pants this is the

365
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 1: only physical description given of a potential, suspect but detectives

366
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 1: decide That calvin isn't a, witness he's A AS i dig,

367
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 1: DEEPER i learned that Detective Tony richardson And Leon calvin are,

368
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: cousins and in the first week of the, Investigation richardson

369
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 1: decides That colvin is hiding. Something we have talked.

370
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 11: With several.

371
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 5: We have talked to have have indicated that you do know.

372
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:27,719
Speaker 1: More calvin gives detectives multiple statements about what he heard and,

373
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: saw And Tony richardson interrogates him for hours about his

374
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: movements inside the hotel the night of the, murder insisting

375
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 1: That calvin was.

376
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 4: Involved if you tell us one thing and it's not,

377
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 4: accurate if we know that you know, different and you.

378
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 5: Can be charged with the. Crime, okay just show you a.

379
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: Note Tony richardson Shows Yolanda chambers four photos of possible.

380
00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 1: Suspects yolanda picks out the photo Of Leon colvin and

381
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: says he was involved in the alleged drug deal behind

382
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: the hotel When hardy was.

383
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 4: Killed loud of that line, upset you were standing right

384
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 4: then when the man was.

385
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: Shot Leon colvin is charged with hindering prosecution and taken to.

386
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 3: Jail, well my, MO i ain't did did? HIM i

387
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 3: ain't did? NONE i did?

388
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 8: HIM i did did?

389
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 9: HIM i did?

390
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: Him police press ahead With ardregis into forrest as two

391
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: of their main, suspects even though there is no record

392
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: of any hotel witness describing a loud two door Black

393
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: Bonnie carlo leaving the scene or a man in a.

394
00:25:48,880 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 1: Wheelchair there's another clue in the file that jumps out at.

395
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: ME a police report from a day after the murder

396
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 1: states that a hotel worker Named jerry McDaniel told detectives

397
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: that he Saw Deputy hardy arguing with the group of

398
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 1: young black men who had been running around inside the,

399
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:23,439
Speaker 1: hotel especially the sixth. Floor there's even a description of

400
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: one of these young, men six feet, tall, slim wearing a,

401
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: dark baggy basketball jersey with the number thirty three on.

402
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: It WHEN i first read, THIS i was, LIKE whoa

403
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: what this information seems super. Relevant hardy was arguing with

404
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: a group of people just hours before he was. Murdered

405
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: jerry McDaniel would later testify in court that he Saw

406
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 1: hardy having this loud argument with the group of young

407
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: men around TEN, pm and that he Saw hardy again

408
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 1: before he left for the night around a lete. Thirty

409
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: McDaniel Said hardy was standing at the back door of the,

410
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: hotel propping it open with his. Foot he also spotted

411
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: the same group of young men outside in the back

412
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: parking lot as he left work to go. Home he

413
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: said that after the, Confrontation hardy seemed, mad SAYING i

414
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: ain't never seen him like that. Before but detectives never

415
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: identified the young men and later say their interview With

416
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: jerry McDaniel never led to any more. EVIDENCE i want

417
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: to pursue. This If jerry McDaniel is still, around maybe

418
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: he can give us some new information about those last

419
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: hours Of hardy's, life something about the young men he

420
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: saw arguing With, hardy some new nugget to breathe life

421
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: into this. Case are You i'm looking, for Mister jerry, McDaniel.

422
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 11: Is that you.

423
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 9: Thank you so.

424
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 1: Much jerry McDaniel is retired in his seventies and lives

425
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 1: in a small green Shake shingle, bungalow the same house

426
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: he's lived in his entire adult. Life we talk on

427
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: his porch and he Remembers hardy's murder conversation with.

428
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 8: Anybody, Yeah, Coase i'm moving, around SO i see. Everything

429
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 8: i've become totaled asron and. Stuff you, know there's been

430
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 8: a lot of stuff going on that.

431
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:28,959
Speaker 4: Hotel.

432
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: Dogs McDaniel also remembers Seeing hardy argue with the group

433
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: of young men inside the. HOTEL i, mean did it

434
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: seem Like Deputy hardy knew those. PEOPLE i don't.

435
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 8: Know you might have known him cause he something he

436
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 8: he wanted something they had or something they didn't give

437
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 8: him SOMETHING i don't know what it.

438
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: Was and about an hour and a half, later when

439
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: he ended his shift and left the, building he passed

440
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 1: By hardy who was standing at the hotel's back. Door

441
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: do you, remember like exactly what you.

442
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 8: Saw, yeah he was standing at the back door back

443
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 8: there to the, right and and it was a. CAR

444
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 8: i then WHEN i, left you, know read there read

445
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 8: the back by what a dog.

446
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: Bed But that's pretty much all he. Remembers had police

447
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: aggressively pursued this, lead they might have gotten. Somewhere but

448
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: now decades, later McDaniel can no longer recall any other

449
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: specific details about the car or anything else from that.

450
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: Night whatever he, saw whoever those young men, were that

451
00:29:43,960 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: potential big lead has, faded likely impossible to. Recover after

452
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: reading through hundreds of pages of, Reports there's a question

453
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: that still sticks with. Me why Did Deputy hardy leave

454
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: the hotel atrium where he was drinking coffee and smoking

455
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,239
Speaker 1: a cigarette to go out the back door to the

456
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: parking lot without his radio and.

457
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 11: Then ug every hour on the hour or so or

458
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 11: every hour and a, half he would do a drive

459
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 11: around the premises to check.

460
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 5: Out the perimeter of the.

461
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: Hotel according To Barry, rushikov the hotel desk, Clerk hardy's

462
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: routine was to walk around inside the hotel when he

463
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: was making his, rounds but when he checked around the

464
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: outside of the, hotel he usually drove around the property

465
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: in his. Car right after THE, crme the sheriff tells

466
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: reporters That Deputy hardy may have been investigating something, suspicious

467
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: maybe a drug. Deal but If hardy went outside to

468
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: check something behind the? Hotel why would he leave his

469
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: two way radio on the table? Inside barry talked to

470
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: detectives just five hours after the. Murder he told them

471
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: about how weird this detail seemed to.

472
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 13: Him tell me what.

473
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 8: She thought was unusual about?

474
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 2: Him not?

475
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 5: Him the wont to.

476
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 13: Tell, Me Officer, hardy if he got, out he always

477
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 13: put the radio in his back, pocket and if he was,

478
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 13: smoking he never would leave us a.

479
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 5: Cigarette, really he would always walk around with. It for

480
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 5: him to have left both the radio and a cigarette

481
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 5: was extremely unlike, him completely unlike.

482
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: Him hardy had over two decades of experience as a

483
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: law enforcement. Officer leaving his radio behind seems out of,

484
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: character and he also left his cigarette. Burning is it

485
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: possible that he was expecting to go outside, quickly maybe

486
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: to meet, someone and that's why he left them. Behind

487
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: is it possible That hardy knew his? KILLER i tried

488
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: to look into. This there is a file containing records

489
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: of the calls that police received from the special tip

490
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: line set up for the, case AND i found eight different,

491
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: tips urging detectives to look Into hardy's personal. Life these

492
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: tips suggest that Someone hardy knew might be connected to his.

493
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: MURDER i Asked Detective Tony richardson about, This is there

494
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: anything that you recall y'all investigating as far as that.

495
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 4: GOES i don't recall that or recall us investigating. Anything

496
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 4: i'll say right now THAT i wouldn't. HAVE i, Mean

497
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 4: i'm investigating the police officers iss. Dead he's been shot and.

498
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 4: Killed it don't matter what you know he. Did if

499
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 4: somebody walked up to him and shot him like.

500
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: That my Producer marra presses, him.

501
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 11: Like the first thing to, me IF i hear that

502
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 11: somebody has, KILLED i would look at their life for a.

503
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,959
Speaker 12: Motive instead of assuming that it was. Random is that

504
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 12: not where you would?

505
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 3: Start you?

506
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 5: KNOW i can explain like, this.

507
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 4: When hardy was, shot he was in, uniform working a

508
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 4: part time security, job still a serves, deputy now doing his, job.

509
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 5: And he was shot and.

510
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 3: Killed, okay if.

511
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 13: He had been.

512
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 3: At home in his, pajamas.

513
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 5: Shot and keell.

514
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 12: In, bed.

515
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 3: We would have looked at, him because that's what you.

516
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: Do Because Deputy hardy was a police officer and was

517
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: killed in, uniform not in his own bed wearing. Pajamas

518
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 1: Detective richardson says he wouldn't have looked into people that Knew. Hardy,

519
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: Instead richardson repeats the theory That hardy walked up on

520
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 1: a drug deal that he wasn't supposed to see and

521
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: that's why he was. Killed an insider THAT i talked,

522
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: to a retired bailiff who worked In Jefferson county When

523
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: Deputy hardy was, murdered told me that this theory about

524
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: a police officer interrupting a drug, deal it's like a

525
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: default explanation when detectives don't have any idea what. Happened

526
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: the sheriff first mentioned the scenario hours after the, murder

527
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 1: and the media ran with. It the only eventual evidence

528
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: to support this theory the always changing statements From Yolanda.

529
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 1: Chambers detectives not only missed potential promising, leads they also

530
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 1: ignored facts that could have ruled out To Forrest johnson

531
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: and Ardregas ford as. Suspects some of the people who

532
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: were with To forrest and ardregas At tea's place remember

533
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: learning about their arrests from the media coverage week after the.

534
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 14: Murder WHEN i read it in the, PAPER i sighed

535
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 14: to forest name AND i was, like, well how did

536
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 14: he do?

537
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 5: It we was At tease that you know that.

538
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 1: Night Can Yarra pickett was At teas at the same

539
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: Time Deputy hardy was. Killed she was out celebrating with her, Sister,

540
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: dedre who had just recovered from, surgery and To forest

541
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: gave her name to. Police.

542
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 5: Keen it was a female At Gallard, Keene Ian.

543
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 12: Keen you're a, man you.

544
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: Had K he told them to find a girl Named

545
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: ken that he was hanging out with At, teas but

546
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 1: they never called or knocked on her.

547
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 14: DOOR i never went to the police or anything BECAUSE

548
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 14: i was on the age at the.

549
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 5: Time, YEAH i mean.

550
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 1: That how old were?

551
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 3: YOU i THINK i was.

552
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 14: Twenty it was ninety five twenty In.

553
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: April, Yes so did they not check id's at the

554
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: club or.

555
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 8: Did y'all have fake?

556
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: IDs he had a FAKE. Id so that made you

557
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 1: not want to go to police because you didn't want

558
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: to Go we're supposed to be.

559
00:36:58,640 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 14: There, YEAH i didn't want to go.

560
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: To The kenyara was scared that she would end up

561
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: in jail if she went to.

562
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 6: POLICE i saw on the news That Tafara johnson had

563
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 6: been picked up for that murder of OFFICER HARDI i,

564
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 6: said wait a, minute there's no, WAY i, SAID i saw.

565
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: To Fire's Stanley chandler is another person who saw To

566
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: forrest And ardregis At tea's place at the Time Deputy

567
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: hardy was. Murdered stanley is A Us marine and he

568
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: was also hesitant to get.

569
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 3: Involved you, know you're twenty.

570
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 6: FIVE i just cannot walk and down to count of,

571
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 6: jails say, HEY i saw that guy at the club

572
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 6: that night at that. Time you, know so no one

573
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 6: never contacted the. Man SO i felt like If fire needed,

574
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 6: me that someone would reach. OUT i had no knowledge

575
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 6: of what to.

576
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: Do Are dregas and To forrest told police about multiple

577
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: people they were with At, tease the bartender who remade

578
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: a weak, drink the guy who sold To forest a

579
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: hot dog outside the, club and the girls they chatted

580
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: with in the parking. Lot To forrest also Gave Tony

581
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,760
Speaker 1: richardson the names and phone numbers of friends he remembered

582
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 1: seeing inside the.

583
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: Club one feed man name is, queasy word.

584
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: Queasy Including queisi And Mama.

585
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 4: Cat, okay one feed man Named Mama cat and number

586
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 4: seven eighty?

587
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 8: Five foresause?

588
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 12: Right?

589
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,720
Speaker 5: Okay? So?

590
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 4: Uh The forest couldn't give us any names other than

591
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 4: nicknames or maybe a first.

592
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 5: Name there was no way that we could find a.

593
00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 4: Witness but we sat and we, waited hoping that you

594
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 4: know who don't know that The forest is in jail

595
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 4: for this, crime maybe they'll come. Forward not a single

596
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 4: one nobody came forward to, say, hey you got the wrong.

597
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 5: Guy he was he was at the.

598
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: Club not a single person came forward to say To

599
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: forrest was At tea's place the night of the. Murder

600
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 1: After Tony richardson tells me, THIS i look through the

601
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: investigative file to double.

602
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 12: Check It's Sergeant Tony, richardson just kind Of sheriff's. OFFICE

603
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 12: i am on the phone with Bar betta and that

604
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 12: spelled B r b E Tta, hunt also known As Mama.

605
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 12: Cat do you remember Where Taforis johnson was on the

606
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 12: night Of july to eighteenth or the morning Of july to, Nineteen,

607
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 12: YES i, Too, okay can you tell me?

608
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 1: Where right there in the folder of recorded police, INTERVIEWS

609
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: i find That Detective richardson did talk with an alibi

610
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: witness he Called Mama cat about a month after the. Murder,

611
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: WELL i saw him at teas.

612
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 12: Place you saw him At tea's. Place, yes that's.

613
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 1: Whore my friend Of Velanique.

614
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 12: Sanders Belanique, Sanders, yes, Sir, okay all, RIGHT i am

615
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 12: on the phone With Bello Nique. Sanders felaanick is also

616
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 12: known As queasy and her home phone numbers seven.

617
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: Eighty on the same, Day Detective richardson talked To, velaanique

618
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: also known As. Queasy she told him she saw To

619
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: forrest And ardregas Inside tees between ELEVEN pm and one THIRTY. Am,

620
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 1: okay all.

621
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 12: Right is there any particular reason that you remember the

622
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 12: time that they got, there any time that they.

623
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 7: Left, yes the time that they got, there my friend

624
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 7: by bell, behind her beeper had went, out AND i

625
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 7: remember her telling me what time it.

626
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 12: Was, okay what about the time they?

627
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 7: Left the time they, left my beep went? Out, okay

628
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 7: my sister was paying me to tell me to come.

629
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 7: Home uh, huh that's WHY i remember the.

630
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 12: Time, okay all right.

631
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 1: NOW i Interviewed Tony richardson twenty seven years after this.

632
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 1: INVESTIGATION i guess it's possible that he just doesn't remember

633
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: speaking With Mama cat And. Quisi so AFTER i found

634
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,720
Speaker 1: these phone, CALLS i went back to ask him about.

635
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: It there were alibi witnesses on the record that told

636
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: Y'ALL i saw them At tea's. Place, now whatever went

637
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: into not believing them is not in any files that

638
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: we've been able to. Access.

639
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 4: Right, well SINCE i don't know who this witness, WAS

640
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,879
Speaker 4: i can't remember, THEM i can't remember what they. Said,

641
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 4: UH i can't really tell you IF i believe them or.

642
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 4: Not probably, not probably.

643
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: Not but cops have a lot of discretion as far

644
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 1: as that goes right in believing alibi witnesses or not

645
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: believing alibi.

646
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 4: Witnesses, well you.

647
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 5: HAVE i, mean you can believe or disbelieve.

648
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 4: Anybody but if someone tells you something that either you

649
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 4: need check out your check further or tells you something

650
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 4: that could possibly have, happened you have an obligation to.

651
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 3: Either prove or disprove that.

652
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 12: You have that.

653
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: Obligation but speaking With Mama cat And, quisi hearing them

654
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: corroborate To forrest And ardregis's, alibi it wasn't enough for

655
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: detectives to question their own theory of the. Crime the

656
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 1: pressure to put someone on trial for Killing Deputy hardy

657
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: isn't letting. Up but fifteen months after the, crime the

658
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 1: judge dismisses capital murder charges against two of their main,

659
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: Suspects Omar berry And Quintez. Wilson Yolanda chambers changes her

660
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: story to say they weren't involved in the. Murder they

661
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: also have alibis and police believe, them so detectives let them.

662
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: Go To forrest And ardregas are now the only two

663
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: suspects charged With Deputy hardy's, murder but right is detective

664
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,919
Speaker 1: zero in on Ar dregas and To, forest they run

665
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: into a big. Problem two weeks after she Says Omar

666
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: berry And Quintez wilson have nothing to do with the,

667
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: Crime Yolanda chambers pivots and says under oath that she's

668
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: made up the entire story about the. Murder she recants

669
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 1: all of her, testimony now saying To forrest And ardregas

670
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 1: also had nothing to do with the.

671
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 4: Murder evidence, wise we didn't have, persually, well we had

672
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 4: personally no. Evine we had the word of a fifteen

673
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 4: year old who told lies a lot of.

674
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,240
Speaker 7: LIES i lie out lie.

675
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 4: Outline we had this table, empty wasn't nothing on, It

676
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 4: and we were still trying to try that case And

677
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 4: we were, like, man what we gonna, Do How we're

678
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 4: gonna win?

679
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: This but investigators have someone, else someone they hadn't initially,

680
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 1: believed someone who will become the state's new star witness

681
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:36,240
Speaker 1: against To Forrest.

682
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 4: Johnson bally us walking that, door standing up on this

683
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 4: table and say what she.

684
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 3: Said we got a full. Table now we got all

685
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 3: the evidence we.

686
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 1: Need that's next. Time Ear witness is a production Of

687
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:03,239
Speaker 1: lava For Good podcasts association With Signal Company Number. One

688
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: executive producers Are Jason, Flom Jeff, Kempler Kevin, wardis and

689
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: Me Beth. Shelburn the investigative reporting for this series was

690
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: done By me AND maraa. McNamara producers ARE maraa, McNamara

691
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: Hannah bial And Jackie. Polly Kara kornhaber is our senior.

692
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: Producer Brit spangler is our sound. Designer additional story editing

693
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: From Marie, sutton fact check help From Catherine, newhan and

694
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: special thanks to To Forrest johnson's legal defense. Team you

695
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: can follow the show On, instagram, TikTok facebook And twitter

696
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: At lava For. Good to see behind the scenes content

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00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:51,720
Speaker 1: from our, investigation Visit lava For goood dot com Slash

698
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: ear witness