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Speaker 1: A gorgeous young mom disappears, leaving five children in the

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Speaker 1: care of her mother. Why the mom because the husband,

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Speaker 1: vote Is Dulos, is suspected in connection with her disappearance

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Speaker 1: after he and his lawyer dragged Jennifer Dulo's reputation through

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Speaker 1: the mud. Now new blood evidence emerges. Eight hundred previously

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Speaker 1: sealed pages of evidence. We've gotten our mits on it.

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Speaker 1: From pools of blood to a bloody cell phone and

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Speaker 1: iPad in Jennifer Dulos's bedroom to a cup of warm

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Speaker 1: tea and an open granola bar on the kitchen counter.

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Speaker 1: What happened to Jennifer Dulos, I mean it's he Grace.

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Speaker 1: This is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jennifer disappeared on May twenty

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Speaker 1: fourth after dropping her kids off at school. Authorities believe

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Speaker 1: she was the victim of a serious physical assault, discovering

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Speaker 1: bloodstains in her garage. A couple was locked in a

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Speaker 1: vicious divorce and custody battle, Jennifer claiming in twenty seventeen

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Speaker 1: court documents, I am terrified for my family's safety. He

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Speaker 1: is dangerous. Fotis Dulo's strongly denying any threatening behavior. Fotis

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Speaker 1: and his living girlfriend, Michelle Traconis both out on bail

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Speaker 1: after pleading not guilty to charges of evidence tampering and

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Speaker 1: hindering prosecution. According to arrest warrants, surveillance video from the

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Speaker 1: night Jennifer went missing captured two people police suspect to

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Speaker 1: be Fotis and Traconis, tossing bags, including a bloodstained sponge,

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Speaker 1: into trash cans around Hartford, Connecticut. You are hearing our

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Speaker 1: friends at ABC that was Witt Johnson. And for somebody

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Speaker 1: like me and like many of you, it's just a

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Speaker 1: field day to go through blood evidence, spatter or dropping

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Speaker 1: his fingerprints, trace DNA surveillance. Just the extravaganza of looking

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Speaker 1: at forensic evidence is very luring. But I want to

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Speaker 1: remind everybody as we enter into this hour, there are

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Speaker 1: five children without a mother. This morning, when I dropped

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Speaker 1: the children off at drop off at school, knowing that

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Speaker 1: I was about to be with doctor Bethany Marshall and

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Bobby Chico, Wendy Patrick, Laura Ingall, I

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Speaker 1: thought about as I drove away, what if I never

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Speaker 1: saw my children again in life? What if they never

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Speaker 1: saw me again in life, never got to hug them,

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Speaker 1: never got to kiss them, never got to pack their

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Speaker 1: snacks for school or watch their games. What if just

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Speaker 1: like that and otherwise normal morning, and they never see

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Speaker 1: mommy again. And not only that, when they are old

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Speaker 1: enough to look at the Internet, they will see claims

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Speaker 1: that mommy was crazy, that mommy was hiding out with

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Speaker 1: a boyfriend, that mommy committed suicide, that mommy abandoned them.

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Speaker 1: Think about that. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, even in the last hours.

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Speaker 1: The case is changing with me an all star panel,

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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall's psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills, doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.

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Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My

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Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan, Bobby Chicon, former special

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Speaker 1: agent FBI, star of Facebook watch series Curse of Acacre,

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Speaker 1: well known California prosecutor, author of Red Flags. You can

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Speaker 1: find her at Wendy Patrick, PhD. Not Bragging, Not Bragging

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Speaker 1: dot com Wendy Patrick. But right now to Fox News

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Speaker 1: National correspondent on the case from the beginning in the

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Speaker 1: Dulos mansion, Laura Ingle Laura, is it true that the

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Speaker 1: defense wants a probable cause hearing? Yep. Not only do

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Speaker 1: they want a probable cause hearing, they say they are

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Speaker 1: looking forward to getting into that courtroom to ask a

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Speaker 1: judge how they can possibly charge go to Stulos with murder.

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Speaker 1: They want to know what probable cause investigators have. Okay,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'm crazy, Laura, but didn't I hear the medical

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Speaker 1: examiners say that there was so much blood, pools of blood,

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Speaker 1: like you take a gallon of meal and he just

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Speaker 1: poured on the ground. Joe's goot, Morgan, how much blood

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Speaker 1: is in the body? How much blood do we have?

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Speaker 1: Do we have a gallon? Do we have five gallons? Yeah? Right,

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Speaker 1: at right at about two gallons in the body, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: And gallons that's it? Yeah too. I think of a gallon.

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Speaker 1: If you've got copious amounts of blood, which is a

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Speaker 1: large amount, and that's generally how it's going to be described.

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Speaker 1: You know that something nasty is afoot, You know that

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Speaker 1: great harm has come to somebody, Because I gotta tell you, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't just appear by magic. Well, Laura Ingle, Fox

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Speaker 1: needs a national correspondent, the MA said at all, although

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Speaker 1: I think he was pussy footing around when he said

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Speaker 1: there's not the amounts of blood indicate a non survivable injury.

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Speaker 1: Why not just call it like it is. Don't put

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Speaker 1: perfume on the pig. Jennifer is dead. That's what that means,

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Speaker 1: non survival. She's dead. Okay, Laura, what's the latest? So

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Speaker 1: the latest? A couple of things have happened this week.

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Speaker 1: Investigators have finally released the search warrants that were issued

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Speaker 1: last year in the summer, and we're talking four hundred

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Speaker 1: and sixty nine pages. There are a couple of highlights

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Speaker 1: of new information in here that we did not know.

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Speaker 1: We are learning how investigators have been piecing together their

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Speaker 1: case as we look through the pages of the search warrants.

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Speaker 1: A couple of highlights include a list of several potential

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Speaker 1: physical altercations between photos Dulos and his then wife Jennifer.

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Speaker 1: In these incidents happen in twenty seventeen. Remember, as we

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Speaker 1: rewind the story, Jennifer and photos Duelos are going through

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Speaker 1: this contentious, bitter custody and divorce battle for the five children,

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Speaker 1: and in the search warrants. We learn from the nanny,

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Speaker 1: Lauren Almietta, who is currently still with the children from

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Speaker 1: all the reports we've had, that she is helping the

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Speaker 1: grandmother with these five children in New York City in

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Speaker 1: the grandmother's apartment. In June of twenty seventeen, she states

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Speaker 1: that she went out to the driveway and found Jennifer

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Speaker 1: crying after she had just been talking to Fotus, and

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Speaker 1: Jennifer said that her husband Photos had tried to hit

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Speaker 1: her with his vehicle and she had to jump out

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Speaker 1: of the way. Wait wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait

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Speaker 1: wait wait. You know, Laura angel I got so carried

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Speaker 1: away just listening to you. It's just it's more than

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Speaker 1: as a prosecutor when I would try a murder case.

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Speaker 1: This is enough evidence for three murder cases. Now, let

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Speaker 1: me understand this. The babysitter says that she saw, as

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Speaker 1: I understand it, Jennifer Dulos crying, where after Fotus Dulos

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Speaker 1: tried to run her over with his vehicle in the

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Speaker 1: family driveway. That's what she told police. But let me

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Speaker 1: give you the other side of the coin here really quick.

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Speaker 1: Because Photus's sister, Rina, who we have met, is now

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Speaker 1: back in Greece, she told the Hartford Current that she

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Speaker 1: was actually in the vehicle with her brother when this

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Speaker 1: alleged incident occurred, and said, in fact, and she says too,

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Speaker 1: that the children were in the vehicle, and said her

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Speaker 1: brother did not try to run over Jennifer. In fact,

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Speaker 1: Jennifer jumped in front of the car to stop them,

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Speaker 1: and that's why. And the kids in the car started laughing,

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Speaker 1: she says, because they thought their mother was making a joke.

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Speaker 1: So there's another side of you know, their side of

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Speaker 1: the story, and said her brother isn't violent and you know,

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Speaker 1: had absolutely no reason to try to run her over.

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Speaker 1: He was just simply trying to leave and it was

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Speaker 1: Jennifer who jumps in front of the car. So that's

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Speaker 1: their version of the story. Okay, let me understand something else.

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Speaker 1: What about the claim by the same babysitter that Fotus

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Speaker 1: Dulos was chasing Jennifer Dulos through the home, screaming her,

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Speaker 1: pounding on the door once she locked herself, I guess

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Speaker 1: in a bathroom and he did not realize that they

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Speaker 1: were there and that they saw what happened. Right, This

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Speaker 1: is another account in twenty seventeen, Lauren Almietta is in

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Speaker 1: a room with one of the five duo's children. She

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Speaker 1: reports to police, she's, you know, kind of painting a

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Speaker 1: picture of what life was like while they were going

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Speaker 1: through the divorce and while they were in the marital home.

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Speaker 1: This is the home that we did our interview in

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Speaker 1: December twentieth of twenty nineteen, and it is a large home.

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Speaker 1: It is ten thousand square feet, so we don't know

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Speaker 1: how long she had been running through the house, but

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Speaker 1: she apparently runs up the stairs and it's a beautiful

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Speaker 1: large staircase and goes into a room. She says, Fotus

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Speaker 1: is chasing her, screaming, she runs in. She barricades herself

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Speaker 1: out of breath, bracing herself trying to get him from

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Speaker 1: coming in. And once he does get into the room,

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Speaker 1: he looks around, she says, and realizes that the nanny

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Speaker 1: and a child is there and calms down. And when

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Speaker 1: asked why didn't she call the police Lauren Almietta, the

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Speaker 1: nanny says she was terrified of him and was afraid

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Speaker 1: that he was going to take the children permanently to

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Speaker 1: his homeland of Greece. That is another tale that we

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Speaker 1: see repeated in the divorce and custody papers long ago

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Speaker 1: that she was always afraid that he was going to

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Speaker 1: take those children forever and take them away. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our friend at Fox sixty one terse. Dating

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Speaker 1: back to twenty seventeen, when their contentious divorce and custody

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Speaker 1: proceedings began, Jennifer Dulos confided in her babysitter, Lauren Almida

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Speaker 1: that she was scared of Photus Dulos. According to the

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Speaker 1: search warrants released today, Jennifer Dulos told Almida that Photus

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Speaker 1: Dulos tried to run her over with a vehicle during

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Speaker 1: in August twenty seventeenth argument after the couple had split up,

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Speaker 1: and police say Almita confirmed that several times she witnessed

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Speaker 1: altercations between Jennifer and Photus. One such incident occurred at

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Speaker 1: their Jefferson Crossing home when Jennifer was being chased around

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Speaker 1: the house by Photus until she ran into their bedroom,

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Speaker 1: slammed the door, and stood up against the door. One

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Speaker 1: of her children and Almida watched, and according to Almida,

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Speaker 1: Jennifer said Fotus had threatened to take the children to Greece.

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Speaker 1: Permanently crime stories with Nancy Grace. The court documents indicate

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Speaker 1: the last time Jennifer Dulos used her phone was at

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Speaker 1: seven fifty seven in the morning last May twenty fourth,

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Speaker 1: to text Almida. That was right around the time she

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Speaker 1: had dropped her five children off at school. She then

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Speaker 1: returned to her new Canean home, where police theorized Photus

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Speaker 1: Dulos was lying in wait in her garage. Back in June,

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Speaker 1: after the first arrests of Michelle Traconis and Dulos's attorney

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Speaker 1: Norm Pattis said his phone records will show that there's

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Speaker 1: no way he could have been involved in the disappearance

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Speaker 1: of his estranged wife, Jennifer Dulos. But in today's documents

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Speaker 1: that were released, investigators said they don't have any evidence

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Speaker 1: that would clear Photus Dulos. You're hearing our friends at

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Speaker 1: Fox sixty one that was Tony Terzi. What I don't

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Speaker 1: understand is maybe I'm wrong, Laura Ingol, Fox needs National correspondent.

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Speaker 1: Did Jennifer Dulos have a trao against Photus Dulos. There

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Speaker 1: was a lot of information in the divorce and custody

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Speaker 1: paperwork that we saw that there was she had gone

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Speaker 1: to the family court judge and asked for protection. She

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Speaker 1: states in her divorce papers, I know that by filing

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Speaker 1: for divorce, he will try to harm me in some way.

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Speaker 1: He has often mentioned sick revenge fantasy. These to me,

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Speaker 1: I am terrified. Those are the words that we saw

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Speaker 1: long ago. They from what we can gather from these

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Speaker 1: court documents, there was to be a court appointed guardian

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Speaker 1: of some kind that I don't remember the name of it,

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Speaker 1: but they had. They always had somebody there to watch

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Speaker 1: Potus Dulos visiting the children. There was they were not

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Speaker 1: supposed to talk to each other as far as tr

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure the status of that, but I know

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Speaker 1: that every time that Fotus was around his children there

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Speaker 1: had to be it was a court supervised visit every

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Speaker 1: single time. They were never together alone without somebody watching

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Speaker 1: over them. Well, that's curious to Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: all of red flags. You don't get that in place

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Speaker 1: where your husband, the father the children, cannot see the

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Speaker 1: children unless it's supervised. Potus Dulos hated that, but she

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Speaker 1: was afraid he would take the children to Greece. But

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Speaker 1: that's got to be court ordered. The mom can't say, hey,

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Speaker 1: you can't see that unless you're supervised. It doesn't work

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Speaker 1: that way way. And Wendy, that's right. You know, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: that many people hear the worders standing order and think,

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Speaker 1: you know, you just go to court and you ask

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Speaker 1: for when you get one. It is a process, and

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Speaker 1: that process comes with due process, and that means notice

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Speaker 1: in an opportunity to fight back at that hearing. And

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Speaker 1: that's no doubt exactly what happened here, as it happens

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Speaker 1: with every other hearing, particularly when there are children involved.

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Speaker 1: So the long and short of it is, there had

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Speaker 1: to have been facts presented at that hearing that we're

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Speaker 1: sufficient to have that judge believe it was in the

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Speaker 1: best interest of everybody to actually put it in place. Well,

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Speaker 1: we don't know how it all started, but we do

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Speaker 1: know how it ended. Take a Lessen Knees twelve, Connecticut

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Speaker 1: Marissa Alter arrest warrants now show a search of her

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Speaker 1: New Canan home the next day found blood stains, blood spatter,

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Speaker 1: and evidence someone tried to clean up the crime scene.

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Speaker 1: The warrants also say Fotus, Dulos and Raconis were captured

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Speaker 1: on surveillance cameras stopping at more than thirty locations along

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Speaker 1: a four mile stretch in Hartford to throw out multiple

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Speaker 1: trash backs. Police later recovered those items and tests confirmed

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Speaker 1: they were stained with Jennifer Dulos's blood. How do you tell,

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jackson State University, if someone

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Speaker 1: has tried to clean up the scene. I mean, it

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Speaker 1: seems counter intuitive. You clean it up, you don't see

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Speaker 1: the mess. But actually when you try to clean up

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Speaker 1: a crime scene, not only is there still trace evidence,

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Speaker 1: but cops can't tell if they look carefully that you've

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Speaker 1: done to clean up. Oh yeah, you're absolutely right. And

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Speaker 1: if we just completely just miss this idea that they

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Speaker 1: found sponges and all this other stuff that was trashed,

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Speaker 1: you get what are called swipes where individuals have gone

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Speaker 1: in and there's a collection of blood, they'll apply some

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Speaker 1: cleaner to it or whatnot, and they'll take some other

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Speaker 1: item like a sponge or a rag or a towel

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Speaker 1: and they'll wipe across it. So when this luminess, let's

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Speaker 1: say we use an agent like Luminoll or blue Star,

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Speaker 1: it'll actually give you an indication that someone has made

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Speaker 1: an attempt to clean up. Just think at home. If

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Speaker 1: you're trying to clean up something off of a cabinet

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Speaker 1: and you wipe across it and it leaves these kind

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Speaker 1: of strided lines across it, that's an indication that someone

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Speaker 1: has potentially attempted to clean up an area. Right now,

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Speaker 1: Bombshell fotus to Dulo's charging his wife's murder, wants a

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Speaker 1: superior court judge to schedule a hearing to determine whether

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Speaker 1: the state has probable cause to arrest him. Now. Usually

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Speaker 1: defendants will waive that kind of hearing because they give

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Speaker 1: the prosecution insight into their case. Also, it's really not

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Speaker 1: good for the state because the state prosecutors have to

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Speaker 1: show their hand and reveal evidence and thereby subject their

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Speaker 1: witnesses to cross exam. Back to Laura Ingle, Fox News,

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Speaker 1: a national correspondent, Laura, so much is unfolding in the

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Speaker 1: last hours. What more do we know? Well, we've got

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Speaker 1: more information coming out in these four hundred and sixty

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Speaker 1: nine pages of search warrants that were released to the public.

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Speaker 1: Look two of the other big things. Here is more

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Speaker 1: detail about the blood evidence found inside Jennifer's garage. The

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Speaker 1: days that she vanished. We've talked about what that information

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Speaker 1: was so far, but now we're learning included in the

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Speaker 1: police findings is a partial bloody footprint on the concrete

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Speaker 1: floor and side of the garage, blood on both garbage

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Speaker 1: cans that were inside of the garage, and blood on

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Speaker 1: one of the garbage cans left side handle. So even

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Speaker 1: more evidence of blood that we did not know about

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Speaker 1: until the search warrants were released. The other key thing

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Speaker 1: that was made public long throughout this investigation, we've heard

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Speaker 1: over and over again that mischelter Konis, the girlfriend, had

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Speaker 1: said the day the night that they were spotted on

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Speaker 1: video surveillance in Hartford with Fotus dropping off all those

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Speaker 1: garbage bags. We had only heard before that she was

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Speaker 1: in the vehicle. There's only one point at the so

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Speaker 1: far that we knew that she was seen leaning out

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Speaker 1: of the car, sounding like she was either putting out

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Speaker 1: or picking up a cigarette. Now the search warrants tell

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Speaker 1: us that they have her on video surveillance actually getting

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Speaker 1: out of the vehicle, exiting the truck, and helping to

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Speaker 1: throw bags into dumpsters. All along she told investigators she

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Speaker 1: had claimed she was on her phone and had no

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Speaker 1: idea what he was doing. She only knew that they

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Speaker 1: were in a quote creepy area, but she was on

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Speaker 1: her phone not paying attention. Now we know that there

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Speaker 1: is evidence that we will see at trial of her

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Speaker 1: getting out of the vehicle and tossing those garbage bags

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Speaker 1: into dumpsters, garbage bags which have now tested that we

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Speaker 1: have the evidence in the original arrest warrants that her

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Speaker 1: DNA is on the knots of the bags, her DNA

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Speaker 1: is on the tape that is taping a couple of

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Speaker 1: those garbage bags together. There is more involvement that we

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Speaker 1: know of now with the release of the search. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that is a forensic coup really for the state, because

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, with her Michelter cut and

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Speaker 1: then I'm gonna circle back with you, Bethany, about how

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Speaker 1: this really changes the position of the mistress Michelter coonis

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Speaker 1: she's not just driving along in a luxury suv chatting

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Speaker 1: on her phone like she said, She is caught on

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Speaker 1: video actually throwing out Jennifer Dulos is bloody bra her

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Speaker 1: bloody clothes, bloody sponges. But to you, first, Joscott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: why is it so significant, not just the video Laura

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Speaker 1: Ingle Fox News has just told us about, but the

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Speaker 1: fact that her but shelter coonis the mistress, the girlfriend

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Speaker 1: of the husband. Her DNA and the knots and the

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Speaker 1: tape in these plastic bags. This is so significant, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: because this is what's referred to as forensic connectivity. You

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Speaker 1: can have physical evidence. And remember what Lara just said

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Speaker 1: in the warrant, they're talking about that her DNA was

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Speaker 1: actually found on the bag, not as it was tied.

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Speaker 1: How do you explain that away? And on the surface

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Speaker 1: of the tape there is touch DNA and just a

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Speaker 1: brief primer, we lose almost one hundred thousand skin cells

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Speaker 1: per day just naturally sloughing off. Well, her DNA has

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Speaker 1: transferred now over to these surfaces. And one more thing, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: that's really key relative to what Laura said. Not only

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Speaker 1: was this a footprint that they're talking about that they

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Speaker 1: found in the garage, this is a shoeprint, Nancy. That

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Speaker 1: means it will have a specific identifier. If they can

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Speaker 1: pick up on the wear patterns on this shoe, that's

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Speaker 1: going to tie it back to somebody. This is bombshell information.

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Speaker 1: This is key information that will tie all of this

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Speaker 1: back together. I think the defense is going to have

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Speaker 1: a hard time explaining this. You know, hey didn't say

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Speaker 1: these two words, Bruno molly. Who could forget Bruno molly?

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Speaker 1: Is it just me, am I the only one that

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Speaker 1: remembers bruno'molly. Yes. At the bloody crime scene where Nicole

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Speaker 1: Brown's head was practically severed, there just a little skin

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Speaker 1: on the back of her neck holding her head onto

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Speaker 1: her body, there was a very distinctive shoeprint, just like

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan is describing it, no doubt about. It

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Speaker 1: was a very expensive Italian shoe of bruno'molly. When confronted

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Speaker 1: with that, Simpson says, I've never had any quote his words,

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Speaker 1: not mine, ugly ass shoes like that. That's Simpson. And

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Speaker 1: then lo and behold, the National Enquirer pulls up a

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Speaker 1: picture of him on the sidelines of a football game,

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Speaker 1: commenting wearing those quote ugly ass shoes the bruno' molly's. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's deja vu all over again. But doctor Bethany Marshall,

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Speaker 1: I gotta ask you several questions. Let me just start

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Speaker 1: with the significance of what Laura Ingle Fought News has

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Speaker 1: just said and told us that she's poured through all

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Speaker 1: of these new documents and found where the girlfriend, the

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Speaker 1: lover of married Fotus Dulos. She's caught on camera. She's

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Speaker 1: not just sitting there with her feet up on the

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Speaker 1: dashboard talking on her cell phone while they're discarding murder evidence.

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Speaker 1: She's getting out of the car throwing it out herself,

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Speaker 1: and her DNA is in the knots of the plastic bags. Well,

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Speaker 1: what that tells me, Nancy a lot about the psychodynamics

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Speaker 1: of the marriage itself between Fotus and Jennifer. It tells

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Speaker 1: me that he was obsessional and paranoid about being betrayed

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Speaker 1: by her. I wish she could have just divorced her

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Speaker 1: and shared the children back and forth. But abusers can

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Speaker 1: never do that. They don't problem solve. They do not

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Speaker 1: know how to be separate from loved ones. They want

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Speaker 1: to possess and control loved ones. So I think that

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Speaker 1: Fotus was pathologically jealous of Jennifer. He felt betrayed, He

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Speaker 1: had all kinds of negative emotions. So he develops a

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Speaker 1: relationship with the mistress Michelle in a sense to get

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Speaker 1: even with Jennifer. He starts a love triangle, and I

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Speaker 1: think that he starts to obsess with Michelle about how

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Speaker 1: he feels betrayed by his ex wife, how his ex

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Speaker 1: wife is controlling the children and turning the children against him,

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Speaker 1: and how she's going to take all of his money,

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Speaker 1: and how can he fotus have a great life with

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Speaker 1: Michelle when the wife is there interfering in their love.

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Speaker 1: And what Michelle doesn't know is that she's beginning to

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Speaker 1: be used. She is being drawn into this plot to

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Speaker 1: become a co conspiras co conspirator and homicide Bethanie, Doctor Bethanie,

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Speaker 1: why is have you ever seen women that? And I

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Speaker 1: always just see with women maybe men do it too,

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Speaker 1: but they start hanging say you start hanging out with

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Speaker 1: a biker dude suddenly dressing just like him. What I'm

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Speaker 1: saying is you see people following along with whoever they're dating.

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Speaker 1: So questioned, why is Michelle Chaconas what woman in their

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Speaker 1: right mind would say, sure, I'll help you throw out

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Speaker 1: in the bloody clothes. She's just like under his spell.

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Speaker 1: Because there is a very particular psychology to this kind

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Speaker 1: of acting in concert with a perpetrator. What happens is

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Speaker 1: the perpetrator in this case, Fotus begins to convince Michelle

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Speaker 1: that it's them against the world. They draw the woman

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Speaker 1: in through paranoia shared paranoia, and what I mean by

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Speaker 1: that is that he probably is saying, you know, my wife,

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Speaker 1: Jennifer is hurting me. She's going to take the children

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Speaker 1: from me. You know, if she calls the police, then

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Speaker 1: you know my career is over. You and I will

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Speaker 1: never have any money. Every time we see a Bonnie

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Speaker 1: and Clyde situation, which this is where someone acts in

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Speaker 1: concert with another, whoever the aggressor or perpetrator it is,

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Speaker 1: whether it's the man or the woman, draws the other

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Speaker 1: person into a belief system that it is them against

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Speaker 1: the world. And unfortunately Michelle took this to a pathological

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Speaker 1: and criminal level, and there must be something hateful and

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Speaker 1: homicidal inside of her two to allow herself to become

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Speaker 1: inspired in all of this crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Please still have not found Jennifer Dulos's body, but based

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Speaker 1: on the evidence and the amount of blood loss, the

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Speaker 1: medical examiner has considered this a homicide. Voteus, why did

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Speaker 1: you do it? Fotus Dulos in handcuffs haled out of

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Speaker 1: the Connecticut State Police barracks and Bridgeport. Dulos arrested and

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Speaker 1: charged today with murdering his wife, Jennifer nearly eight months

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Speaker 1: after her disappearance photos Dulus, who was charged with murder, felony, murder,

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Speaker 1: and kidnapping. Jennifer Dulos last scene alive on May twenty fourth,

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Speaker 1: after dropping her children off at school. Police revealing and

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Speaker 1: an arrest warrant today, they believe Photus Dulos wrote a

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Speaker 1: vintage bicycle to Jennifer's home, killed her, covered up the crime,

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Speaker 1: and disposed of her body. The warrant detailing seven locations

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Speaker 1: where blood like stains matching Jennifer's DNA were found at

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Speaker 1: her new Canaan home. That is NBC News for reporter

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Speaker 1: Mark Sentia. In last hours, hundreds of pages of documents released.

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Speaker 1: We find pools of Jennifer's blood found in the garage,

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Speaker 1: the bedroom un still search warrants reveal, along with interviews

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Speaker 1: with the nanny who said murder suspect husband Fotus Dulos

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Speaker 1: tried to run over Jennifer in his car and chased

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Speaker 1: her through the house. With me right now, Laura Ingle,

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Speaker 1: Fox News National correspondent. I am now learning, Laura Ingle,

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Speaker 1: that there's not just pool evidence of pools of blood

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Speaker 1: in the garage, but also in the bedroom. I in

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Speaker 1: my scenario that I had piece to get cobbled together,

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Speaker 1: I thought she was killed in the garage and never

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Speaker 1: made it in. But also there seems to be blood

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Speaker 1: on a phone and blood on a tablet in the bedroom,

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Speaker 1: plus now another pool of blood. Laura Ingle, Well, what

427
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: we've read in these search warrants that the cellular telephone

428
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: and tablet were found on the master bedroom nightstand. I'm

429
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: uncertain if there was blood found on those things, but

430
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: it was important for the police to note the telephone

431
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,360
Speaker 1: and tablet in the master bedroom because there's been there

432
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: seems to be some conflicting information about where her phone was.

433
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: Because you remember the day she goes missing, she drops

434
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,400
Speaker 1: her children off at school, the nanny comes into the house.

435
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: You know the timeline. It's just terrifying to think about,

436
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 1: because she comes into the house just an hour after

437
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: something has happened to Jennifer. In the eleven o'clock hour

438
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: in the morning. She comes back to the house and

439
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: she sees Jennifers mug of tea an unopened granola bar

440
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: on the kitchen and which she apparently left before she

441
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 1: went to school because she was going to come back,

442
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 1: get her things and go to New York City for

443
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: a bunch of appointments that she never made. But there

444
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: we had been under the impression that her phone was missing.

445
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: It sounds like those she had maybe two telephones, two

446
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: cell phones, one of which was had pinned over by

447
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: her car or the truck was found at the park,

448
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: and then this other one. So that is another piece

449
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 1: of the puzzle that we're hoping will be put together

450
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: as we move forward. In this case, I'm looking at

451
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: a news report that says cops also found traces of

452
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: blood on a tablet and a phone in her master bedroom.

453
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: It doesn't say cell phone, landline and the tablet, I

454
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: guess are saying an iPad. Now you know what you're

455
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: telling me something new, Laura Engle about the cup of

456
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: tea and the unopened granola bar. That changes my theory.

457
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: That seems to me that maybe she did get out

458
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: of the car and getting the home. I mean, I'm

459
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: not sure. What do you make of it, Laura Engle?

460
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: I you know, it's it's it's hard to piece it

461
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: together with that information knowing that there was Remember there

462
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: was a piece of DNA evidence on the kitchen faucet

463
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: sink that was a droplet of her blood and Photosduelos's DNA.

464
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: There was also Photostuelos' DNA on the mudroom door, on

465
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: the doorknob. So it sounds as though, I mean, when

466
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: we look at what happened in the garage, it's so bloody,

467
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 1: it's so massive, and whoever went into the house had

468
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: to be so careful because when the nanny comes home

469
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: at around eleven am, she doesn't see She doesn't walk

470
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: in and say, oh my gosh, this is a bloody

471
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: crime scene. And she didn't go into the garage. She

472
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: just went into the kitchen and didn't notice anything, just like, wow,

473
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: why is her mug of tea here? Why is the

474
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 1: granola bar here? And it was also a purse that

475
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: was found in the kitchen. The other note of what

476
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: the nanny found was that she went to go use

477
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: a paper towel because she wanted she was washing the

478
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: mug as a courtesy to Jennifer, and she went to

479
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: go grab her a paper towel, and all the paper

480
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: towel roll was empty. She said, huh, that's weird. I

481
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: just put twelve rolls of paper towels into the house yesterday.

482
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: Why would they go through a towel? And then she

483
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: opens the pantry and there's only two left, so she's thinking,

484
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: how on earth did these guys, this family go through

485
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: ten rolls of paper towels. That's that's what's noted in

486
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: these arrest warrants and the search warrants released. You know,

487
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: isn't it funny? Funny? Odd to Bobby Chico and former

488
00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: FBI star on Facebook that the simple little things means

489
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 1: so much. Like I'm a lot of times don't have

490
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: time to go shopping, which I hate anyway, And I

491
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: will order, you know, to find cut rate paper towels

492
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: or toilet paper whatever. I'll order it and get free

493
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: delivering there it is there. I know exactly how much

494
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: I order. And they come in bulk of twelve if

495
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: I order them and stick them in the pantry, and

496
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: then the next day they're all gone and the one

497
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: that I have out by the coffee maker is also empty.

498
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: I know something happened. Now that's not high tech DNA

499
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: that Joe Scott Morgan wants to talk about. But it's

500
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: evidence that will mean something to a jury, something significant.

501
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: I don't need a medical examiner to tell me there

502
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 1: were large pools of blood. When I find out there

503
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: are twelve empty rolls of paper towels, that's right. And

504
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: it's one of those, you know, seemingly mundane details that

505
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: really mean a lot to us as investigators when we

506
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: try to piece together the story of what happened. That's

507
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: our job is to use the physical evidence to piece

508
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: together what we think happen. And so something like that

509
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: seemingly innocuous detail really kind of really sends us in

510
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: a certain direction. And obviously those paper towels were used

511
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: to clean up this crime scene and deposited in those

512
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: bags that we saw on video being disposed of, and

513
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: that's that's that's the story of what you want the

514
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: jury to hear, and a prosecutor will take the jury

515
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: through that story. And this is one of those great

516
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: details that adds, you know, richness and depth to the

517
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 1: story that allow people to know it's believable because all

518
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: of these details matter, and all of these details add

519
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: up to the story that the prosecutor will tell the jury,

520
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: and the jury will ultimately hopefully believe in this case.

521
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 1: I mean, when you look at this, you know, that's

522
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: what's so important to me as an investigator. When you

523
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: look at the amount of blood and where the blood

524
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: was found, you start to think that this wasn't a

525
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: an assassination. In other words, in my mind, this was

526
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: probably an ife attack. It was probably vicious, and if

527
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: we saw the body in its state that the way

528
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: it was when it was killed, we would probably call

529
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: it overkill because there's so much blood. The blood is

530
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 1: throughout the house. Now, it got all over the perpetrator,

531
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: whoever that was, And so this wasn't a case where

532
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: the person was shot in the head and immediately dropped

533
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: to the floor and there was a small pool of

534
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: blood to be cleaned up. The blood was everywhere, and

535
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: it was on the perpetrator, and the perpetrator tracked it

536
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: through the house. And so now in my mind, we

537
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: theorized this was a vicious attack, probably using a knife

538
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: or a blunt instrument, that went on for a few

539
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: minutes and caused a lot of bleeding to the victim

540
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: before the victim died. But to Laura Ingle Fox Nis,

541
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: what can you tell me about clear ponchos. Clear ponchos

542
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: were found within the garbage bags that were discarded and

543
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: Hartford in those dumpsters and multiple trash receptacles, lots of

544
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: garbage cans, lots of you know a picture being in

545
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: the back of an alley of a restaurant. Those are

546
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: the types of place that these garbage bags were found.

547
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: And when they opened them, they found a long list

548
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: of things that were later tested to have a positive

549
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: identification for DNA for Jennifer Dulos, Photosdulos and michel Terconis.

550
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: Most of the Michelcis DNA matches were on the outside

551
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: of the bags, I will mention and that not but

552
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: inside there were clear ponchos with blood like stains that

553
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: matched Jennifer Dulos's DNA and also the zip ties with

554
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 1: blood on them, with blood like substance is what it's

555
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: called in the warrants. The black husky gloves. There's another

556
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: pair of gloves that were found. One of the pairs

557
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: of gloves had Photosdulos's DNA inside the glove. Things like

558
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: that were discovered to doctor Bethany Marshall's psychoanalyst Beverly Hills,

559
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,720
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany. This takes it to a whole new level

560
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: in my mind, and I would love to point this

561
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: out to a jury, the fact that they go by ponchos.

562
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,919
Speaker 1: It's like Dexter how he would wrap the whole dismemberment

563
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 1: scene in plastic so not a speck of blood would

564
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: get on the room or the walls or the floor.

565
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: They planned this down to the tiniest details, even getting

566
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: ponchos and gloves to cover themselves so they would not

567
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: get her blood on their clothes. Well, they planned it,

568
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: but not so well because it sounds like they accosted

569
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: her in the garage but then didn't think about all

570
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: the blood that would get over their own hands and

571
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,320
Speaker 1: their own bodies. Went back to the kitchen, tried to

572
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: wash themselves, put deposited blood and debris on the kitchen faucet,

573
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: then tried to gather her belonging like her tablet deposited

574
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 1: blood there. So they planned and planned, but at the

575
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,320
Speaker 1: end of the day, they're both amateurs, so they really

576
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: did not know what they were doing. In terms of

577
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: the psychology of the planning. I think with what we

578
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: call catifym a commicide. What that is is when there's

579
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 1: a compulsion to kill, and the compulsion waxes and wanes

580
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 1: over time and takes on kind of a ritualistic quality.

581
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: With a commicide, whether it's a couple or an individual

582
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: who begins to gather the accoutra moth for the kill,

583
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,439
Speaker 1: there's kind of an excited ritualistic quality, you know, going

584
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 1: to target, getting the plastic, getting the ponchos, planning, thinking

585
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: about where the dumb side is going to be for

586
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 1: the body, planning multiple dump sites. So not only are

587
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: they ridding themselves of the victim, but in some excited,

588
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: strange kind of way there it's almost like foreplay for

589
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: the rest of their life. They're bonding with each other

590
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: and trying to prepare for a life together in some sick,

591
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: twisted way. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Jennifer and Fotis

592
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: had been in the midst of a bitter divorce battle.

593
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 1: In court documents, Jennifer seemed to fear for her safety,

594
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: claiming in twenty seventeen, I am afraid of my husband.

595
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: I know that filing for divorce and filing this motion

596
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 1: will enrage him. I know he will retaliate by trying

597
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: to harm me. In some way. Fotis Dulo strongly denied

598
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 1: any threatening behavior, calling his wife incapable of parenting because

599
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: she allegedly was taking anti psychotic and anti anxiety medications.

600
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 1: I've seen it so many times and every time it's heartbreaking,

601
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: Jennifer said. At the time the split started, she was afraid.

602
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: She was afraid to file for divorce. She was afraid

603
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 1: her husband would seek vengeance on her. You were hearing

604
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: me speaking with my friends at ABC. Jennifer Dulas dead.

605
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it. And right now the defense

606
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: attorneys for her husband, Photos Dulas, are in sitting on

607
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: a probable cause hearing to see and test the state's

608
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: evidence to see if there is even a probable cause

609
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: to arrest him. But I can tell you this, the

610
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:32,240
Speaker 1: people in New Canaan see it differently. Take a listen.

611
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: When we're in first Spread early this afternoon, folks in

612
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: town say people were honking their horns making sure everyone

613
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 1: had heard. Art Keane owns this mobile station. He says

614
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: it was like a party. I got a kick out

615
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 1: of him hitting the horns. I thought there was a

616
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: party going. I didn't know anything about it until my

617
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 1: son told me about it. It turns out the party

618
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: was actually news of the arrest. Yes. Yes, this is

619
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 1: a community that jumped into action when Jennifer Dulas went missing,

620
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 1: passing out flyers assisting police with the folks here say

621
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 1: they're not surprised to hear her estranged husband has been

622
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: charged with murder. About a surprise. I mean, it does

623
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 1: matter how they were law Do you get the evidence

624
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,919
Speaker 1: to be able to charge him? Is there any doubt

625
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: in your mind what happened here? Not been following the

626
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: case pretty closely, and you know, if you vad you

627
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: know all of the about all the evidence and the

628
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: background and so forth. I mean, it almost seems like

629
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: an iron clad well without a body, nothing is ever

630
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: iron clad. Those are our friends joining us from NBC

631
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: News for that was Ida Siegel. We haven't even touched

632
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: on the lawyer, Laura Ingle. Right now, in a very

633
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 1: very rare case, Votus Dulo's lawyer has been charged in

634
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: connection with Jennifer Dulos's murder. What about it? How does

635
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: he get tangled up in all this? Laura Ingle? His

636
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: name is Kent Mlwinney and he was his civil attorney

637
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 1: back when you know, there was a lot of money

638
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: problems we've reported on, and in fact, that's what I

639
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: had my interview with photos Duos about. There's a gag

640
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: order in the criminal case, so he was able to

641
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: speak to me about his original civil case with Gloria Farber.

642
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,640
Speaker 1: So back at the beginning of that case. Gloria Farber

643
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: is Jennifer Dulos's mother asking him to repay millions of

644
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: dollars in what she calls loans, he calls gifts. That's

645
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: another story. But this guy, Kent McWhinney, was a friend

646
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: of his and a civil attorney who was helping him

647
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 1: with that case. He has been charged with conspiracy to murder,

648
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,879
Speaker 1: also arrested the same day, and as of this broadcast,

649
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: he remains in print. He's in custody right now. He

650
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: has not been able to make his two million dollars bond.

651
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: He is accused of conspiracy for a couple of reasons.

652
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: According to the warrants, he was part of the alibi

653
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 1: originally that photos Dullo said that he was talking with,

654
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: had a meeting with, had a scheduled meeting with. There

655
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: was a lot of you know, they were supposed to

656
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: meet up and talk that he was supposed to be

657
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 1: on the phone with him. Then when police go to

658
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: talk to him and ask him more specifically about these meetings,

659
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 1: he tells police that he actually had a fall that day,

660
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: that next morning, has a concussion, doesn't remember what happened

661
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,320
Speaker 1: the day of the twenty fourth, broke his cell phone.

662
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: Oh please please with a Patrick, California prosecutor, He says,

663
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: this is a lawyer speaking. He wants the judge to

664
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: believe he had a fall and has temporary amnesia. I'm

665
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 1: so happy that's right. And you know, lawyers are officers

666
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: of the court, so we're held to a higher standard

667
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: than even other witnesses. So to come in and make

668
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: these representations, which by the way, are hard to disprove.

669
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: That's the frustrating thing about some of the evidence that

670
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: we receive is if you're talking about what somebody was

671
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: thinking or forgetting, you know, we have to have willful

672
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: misrepresentations to actually take any take any action. It's really frustrating,

673
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,320
Speaker 1: even when Nancy, as you point out, it really sounds

674
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: common sense that that wouldn't have been the case. But

675
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 1: it's one of those things that as moving forward, we'll

676
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: see if it doesn't provide him some sort of defense.

677
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: Which is going to be important because we're dealing with

678
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 1: the case here where the circumstantial and forensic evidence tells

679
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: the story Jennifer cannot. So this is just one of

680
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 1: those where this is one more interesting development, but certainly

681
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: not going to make a difference to the jury probably

682
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 1: in the long run regarding who killed her. Take a

683
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: listen to our friends at Fox sixty one. This is

684
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 1: Postulas from FOP. I just wanted to reach out to

685
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: you when you get a chance my numbers. Thank you

686
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: so much, Bye bye. Voicemails left for ket Muiney's a

687
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: strange wife on me sixteenth. It's doing well. It's Sante morning,

688
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: Nick morning, and I'm just trying to type space with

689
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: you to see what the plan is so I can

690
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 1: plant my afternoon evening accordingly. Okay, call me back. Thank

691
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: you so much by these messages left just several days

692
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: before Jennifer Dulos disappeared on May twenty fourth, and just

693
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: days before Muinney's wife met with Dulos at Max's Oysterbar

694
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: in West Hartford. Muiney's wife described the meeting in a

695
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: sworn Alfa David as an attempt by Dulos to reconcile

696
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: the Muinney strained marriage. According to his arrest warrant, Muinney

697
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: and Potus Dulos were close friends, but Zenas Zlotes, the

698
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: divorce attorney representing Mwinney's wife, says she thought it was

699
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: strange Dulos had a sudden vested interest in her relationship

700
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,760
Speaker 1: with her husband, feeling uncomfortable that Dulos allegedly kept inviting

701
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: her back to his Farmington homes. Is not a close

702
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: family friend, This is not a relative. This is not

703
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: the type of person who you would expect would reach

704
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: out and try to mend a marriage, Zolotes, questioning in

705
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: an interview with Fox sixty one last week, whether his

706
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: client avoided a fate similar to Jennifer Dulos as On

707
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: April fifteen, twenty nineteen, video obtained by Fox sixty one

708
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: shows a suspicious man outside mlhinney's wife's South winds Her home,

709
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 1: caring what she says she thought was a gas can

710
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: and a crowbar and a sworn affidavit. Mliney's wife said

711
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,800
Speaker 1: detectives interviewed a suspect who told them he was asked

712
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 1: by Kent McWhinney to repair the garage. Door, No arrests

713
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: were met. Our friends at Fox sixty one. That was

714
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: Zennia Maldonado to Fox News National correspondent Laura Ingle, that

715
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: voicemail message we just heard, is it believed right now,

716
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: not proven, but believed that his lawyer Kent McWhinney was

717
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 1: getting photos Duelos to kill mcwinney's wife. Well, look, the

718
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: inference is that he was trying to get her to

719
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 1: come to his house or to have some type of

720
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 1: a meeting. Now, when you asked about a t r

721
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: O before, there was a protective order against mlinney contacting

722
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: his wife. So what photos Dulos was attempting to do,

723
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: according to the these calls, According to the documents, if

724
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: he was trying to do kind of a go around

725
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: to get these two to talk. MWENNI perhaps had told Sodas, Look,

726
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: I want to get back together with my wife. I

727
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 1: can't have contact with her. Can you help me out?

728
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: That's what they're going to say, and that's what they're

729
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: going to say. Those calls were about. Remember, part of

730
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: the other part of the new arrestaurants when he was

731
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: arrested was that he had recently made contact with a

732
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: gun and Hunt club that he once belonged to and

733
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: helped sound years and years ago, but hadn't been a

734
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: part of or in contact with anybody for the last

735
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 1: five to six years. But in the weeks before Jennifer

736
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 1: goes missing, which is around the time these voicemails are made,

737
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: he calls them and asks for access to the grounds

738
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: of this rule dirt road area where people go pheasant hunting,

739
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: and the guys tell them how to how he can

740
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: gain access to those grounds. And then a couple of

741
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: days later, a couple of guys out walking around hunting

742
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: for pheasants find a six foot long, three foot deep,

743
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,879
Speaker 1: two foot wide hole in the ground with tarps and

744
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: unopened bags of lime. So with that, you know, there's

745
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: there's no proof that Kent McWhinney went there and dug

746
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: a hole, but he did access. He did ask for

747
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: access to those grounds just before that hole was found.

748
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: So tying that all in together with the phone call

749
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 1: and trying to get together with the wife, the strange

750
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: his strange wife, you know, it led to enough suspicion

751
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 1: for police to place him under arrest. Dodgor Bethany Marshall,

752
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: psychoanalyst joining me out of la. You know, is there

753
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: no end to the evil the way that these guys

754
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: think they can just murder their wives allegedly and that

755
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: solves their problem. Well, just think about it, Nancy. It

756
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: follows along the lines of all domestic abuse and all

757
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: domestic homicide. What happens is that the men in this

758
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 1: case come to believe that the wife has betrayed them

759
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: in some way. It always starts there that because these

760
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: men are primitive, they're like babies. They treat their wives

761
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: like as if they were the baby and the wife

762
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 1: is the mother. My mommy owes me everything. My mommy

763
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 1: should never be separate. Mommy has let me down, she

764
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: didn't feed me, Mommy, mommy, mommy, give me, give me,

765
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:38,959
Speaker 1: give me. And then you put that childlike attitude into

766
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: an adult homicidal mind, and you have a man who

767
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 1: wants to, in an evil, malicious way, punish the wife

768
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: for having betrayed him. Now, I think Photus and Mwennie

769
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: became obsessed with their wives. You know, men who are

770
00:47:55,320 --> 00:48:00,760
Speaker 1: homicidal and commit domestic violence often begin to their wives

771
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 1: after the divorce. Right, we know that seventy six percent

772
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: of all talking behavior happens while a woman is leaving

773
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 1: the relationships, so think of it. You know, Mlwinne's wife

774
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 1: was leaving him. I mean she had a restraining order,

775
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: and Jennifer wasn't leaving fotus, but there was the sense

776
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 1: of abandon Mlwinney may have had. So both men became

777
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: obsessed with conspiring to punish and ultimately to kill their wives.

778
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: So there's no end. It started with domestic violence in

779
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:32,720
Speaker 1: the beginning, and the arc ended in a potential attempt

780
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: at homicide and homicide. Okay, you know, I'm not quite

781
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 1: sure of everything you just said, but I know this.

782
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: He's the one cheating, He's the one sleeping around and

783
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 1: banner Michelle Jaconas, I'm sure you're not the first, all right,

784
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: don't feel special. He's the one that's causing the problem

785
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: in the home. So I don't know how you could

786
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: twist that around, doctor Bethany make it that she's the

787
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: one leaving him. All I know is there not coming

788
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: out and saying it. But it's just she's dead. They're

789
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: being prosecuted for murder, and the only thing the defense

790
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: has going for them right now, it's right now, there

791
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:14,400
Speaker 1: is no dead body. We wait as just as unfolds

792
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 1: and I guess, Laura Ingle, Fox News National correspond it

793
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: is going to be on the front row of that

794
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: Probable Cause hearing and I can't wait. Nancy Grace Crimes

795
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: story signing off, goodbye friend,