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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: Let's get to the show.

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Speaker 4: All right, Welcome to Counterpoints, everybody. I'm Ryan Grim here

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Speaker 4: with Emily Joshinsky.

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Speaker 5: Had a big show today.

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Speaker 4: Israeli President Isaac Herzog is coming to Capitol Hill today.

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Speaker 4: A handful of Democrats are protesting. What else we ought?

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Speaker 6: Well, we're going to start with, of course, the news

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Speaker 6: if you're not sick of indictments yet, that Donald Trump

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Speaker 6: is facing another indictment and then potentially another indictment after that.

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Speaker 3: Ronda Santa sat down.

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Speaker 6: With Jake Tapper yesterday, so we have all the highlights

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Speaker 6: from that interview. Joe Manson, there's some pretty interesting video

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Speaker 6: from Joe mansion in New Hampshire. Maybe a little bit

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Speaker 6: about Gavin Newsom and that. We'll then get to Israel

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Speaker 6: we'll get to some wild video footage of Charles Barkley,

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Speaker 6: and then our guest today is Christopher Rufo. We'll be

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Speaker 6: talking to him about his new book. We have lots

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Speaker 6: of questions and are excited for that interview.

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Speaker 5: And yeah, and a quick word on that.

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Speaker 4: You and I both have read the book, and just

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Speaker 4: to tease the interview a little bit, like what I

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Speaker 4: would say is that the most dangerous thing about the

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Speaker 4: book is how.

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Speaker 5: Good it is.

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Speaker 3: It's not dangerous from my perspective.

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Speaker 4: To me, like the worldview that it articulates and advocates

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Speaker 4: for is kind of nihilistic and anti social, but it

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Speaker 4: does it in such an impressively structured way. It's like

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Speaker 4: it's a piece of intellectual hef that has to be

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Speaker 4: grappled with. And I think it's filled with contradictions that

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Speaker 4: hopefully we can some which I think you'll agree with

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Speaker 4: me on probably and some of which you won't.

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Speaker 5: But I'm curious to see how this goes.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree, we're really looking forward to that. Let's

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Speaker 6: start though, with the news of Donald Trump receiving a

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Speaker 6: target letter from special counsel Jack Smith. This is in

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Speaker 6: reference actually to those alleged efforts to overturn the twenty

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Speaker 6: twenty election. So we'll put a one the element up

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Speaker 6: on the screen here. This is from Fox News.

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Speaker 3: They say a.

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Speaker 6: Government source with direct knowledge of the situation tells Fox

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Speaker 6: News that Smith's office sent Trump a target letter, and

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Speaker 6: the former president confirmed the news in a social media

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Speaker 6: post Tuesday. The development indicates that another indictment of Trump

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Speaker 6: could be looming in the near future. You'll remember that

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Speaker 6: actually from the last indictment. When the world learned about

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Speaker 6: target letters, it's usually a pretty clear red flag that

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Speaker 6: you are about to be indicted. Now, the Republican primary field,

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Speaker 6: Soccer and Crystal sort of walked through the breaking news yesterday,

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Speaker 6: but the primary field has had about twenty.

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Speaker 3: Four hours to react.

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Speaker 6: Now, I should start with one tiny little bit of

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Speaker 6: updated news from ABC say. The target letter mentions three

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Speaker 6: federal statue federal statutes conspiracy to commit offense or to

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Speaker 6: defraud the United States, deprivation of rights under color of law,

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Speaker 6: and tampering with a witness, victim or an informant, sources

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Speaker 6: familiar with the matter told ABC News Now. Vivek Ramaswami

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Speaker 6: has said that these are quote different from any of

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Speaker 6: the other prior indictments against Trump, referring to the charges

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Speaker 6: in this case. You also had Nicky Haley, You had

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Speaker 6: Governor Chris former Governor Chris Christie come out and talk

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Speaker 6: about this. Chris Christie said, basically, as a former prosecutor,

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Speaker 6: I want to see any potential indictment before I talk

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Speaker 6: about the case against Donald Trump. That said, let maybe

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Speaker 6: clear his conduct on January sixth proves he doesn't care

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Speaker 6: about our country and our constitution. Nikki Haley said, that's

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Speaker 6: why I'm running. We need a new generational leader. Then

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Speaker 6: you had Asa Hutchinson, who I don't even know what

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Speaker 6: I'm mentioning because he's so completely irrelevant, just torch Trump.

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Speaker 3: A lot of them never Trump. People really loved that.

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Speaker 6: And Ron destantas his His first reaction was, I can't

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Speaker 6: speak about that because I haven't seen it. I can

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Speaker 6: tell you one of my jobs as president will be

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Speaker 6: to end the weaponization of these agencies.

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Speaker 3: I will get that job done.

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Speaker 6: He also talked about this on Jake Tapper, which we're

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Speaker 6: going to break down the entire interview later in the show,

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Speaker 6: but he did say, this country is going down the

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Speaker 6: road of criminalizing political differences, and I think that is wrong.

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Speaker 6: He references Alvin Bragg and said, my job is to

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Speaker 6: restore a single standard of justice, to end weaponization of

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Speaker 6: these agencies.

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Speaker 3: We can put a two up on the screen right now.

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Speaker 6: This is reaction from Julie Kelly, someone who has done

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Speaker 6: a lot of reporting on these types of issues, in particular.

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Speaker 3: I'm so sorry. I meant a three.

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Speaker 6: Julie Kelly doing a lot of reporting on this in particular,

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Speaker 6: she says it won't just be Trump, and I should

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Speaker 6: say from the right named in a January sixth indictment,

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Speaker 6: DOJ Smith love conspiracy charges in every conspiracy account obstructions

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Speaker 6: seditions THATCREA needs at.

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Speaker 3: Least one co conspirator.

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Speaker 6: Prepare for lawyers, White House, official campaign aids, and maybe

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Speaker 6: GOP House members to be indicted to. In other WORDSDS

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Speaker 6: indictment exhaustion is obviously imminent. And just before I toss

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Speaker 6: to Ryan, let's run the sound bite. Sorry for going

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Speaker 6: out of order at guys, but this is a two

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Speaker 6: from CNN.

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Speaker 2: But it's a pretty serious moment, and it causes from

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Speaker 2: both illegal and in this case a political standpoint.

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Speaker 7: I imagine a certain degree of circling the wagons. Look

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Speaker 7: it shows that there is a degree of legal jeopardy

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Speaker 7: coming in the direction of the former president, and that's

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Speaker 7: always serious for anybody who receives a target letter. So

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Speaker 7: I do think, you know, it's something that needs to

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Speaker 7: be taken seriously. Perhaps an indictment is on its way.

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Speaker 7: We saw in the last case that that preceded an indictment.

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Speaker 7: I think we're likely to see the same thing here.

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Speaker 7: He's probably not going to go in and testify.

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Speaker 8: And then it's you know, then we're back to Okay,

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Speaker 8: this case perhaps going to be be heard in the

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Speaker 8: in the DC district, And who's the judge that gets

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Speaker 8: asign and we're kind of off to all the questions

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Speaker 8: that we had on the first round.

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Speaker 6: So that's Jim Schultz, somebody who was actually a lawyer

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Speaker 6: in the Trump White House.

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Speaker 3: So, Ryan, what do you make of that reaction?

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Speaker 6: Obviously it's not entirely different from what a Chris Christie

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Speaker 6: or maybe an Asa Hutchinson would immediately make of the situation,

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Speaker 6: but also from the broader field as they digestive the

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Speaker 6: news publicly.

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Speaker 4: I think Ramaswami is wrong on his analysis so far.

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Speaker 4: If the ABC News reporting is correct that those are

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Speaker 4: the three charges that he's going to face. I think

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Speaker 4: that you can say that colloquially that that amounts to insurrection,

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Speaker 4: and therefore you could argue the fourteenth Amendment, or which

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Speaker 4: amendment is, it's the fourteenth Amendment that triggers that bans

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Speaker 4: you from running for a president or in federal office

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Speaker 4: if you've been involved in insurrection. The insurrection they meant

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Speaker 4: specifically was the Civil War, although law doesn't.

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Speaker 5: Limit it to that. But I don't see how those three.

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Speaker 4: Charges would get past a Republican Supreme Court. In other words,

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Speaker 4: they're not going to stop they're not going to stop

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Speaker 4: him from running, they're not going to take him off

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Speaker 4: the ballots, and if he won, I just do not

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Speaker 4: see the Supreme Court coming in and saying you can't

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Speaker 4: take office. So I don't think we're at that place yet.

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Speaker 4: But like you said, it is. This is another indictment

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Speaker 4: thrown on the pile, and I think it is ammunition

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Speaker 4: for my earlier argument that, in particular, the New York

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Speaker 4: case was a big mistake for Democrats because it looks

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Speaker 4: so trivial the paperwork around a payoff for Stormy Daniels

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Speaker 4: compared to trying to overthrow an election allegedly violently through

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Speaker 4: an insurrection like that is that is broadly.

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Speaker 5: The charge under which these three allegations fall. So you

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Speaker 5: present a scenario where.

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Speaker 4: It looks like they're coming after him on just everything

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Speaker 4: that they can find. When something like you know what,

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Speaker 4: lots of politicians pay hush money, lots of politicians don't

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Speaker 4: try to overthrow the elections.

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Speaker 5: That they lost.

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Speaker 4: And so I do wish that they had focused their

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Speaker 4: energy on that particular case. But we still have the

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Speaker 4: document's case coming, as Trump calls it documents hoax. That's

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Speaker 4: that's still waiting in the wings. The Georgia elections indictment

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Speaker 4: may still be coming too, from the state attorney general

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Speaker 4: there soon probably and the Michigan Attorney General. I wonder

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Speaker 4: if this is do we have this here? I wonder

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Speaker 4: if this was a coincidence or if this just or

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Speaker 4: if this is related to these charges. So sixteen Michigan residents,

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Speaker 4: several of them very high profile party apparatricks in Michigan,

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Speaker 4: signed certificates saying that they were the duly elected electors

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Speaker 4: from Michigan. They were going to They tried to give

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Speaker 4: that to Ron Johnson. They mailed it to the Senate.

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Speaker 4: They were trying to get it to Pence so that

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Speaker 4: they would do basically what happened in eighteen seventy two

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Speaker 4: where there were multiple electors seven nineteen sixty even did

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Speaker 4: oh yeah, they well, well that was the DNC.

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Speaker 6: It was a similar situation where you had people in

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Speaker 6: the cases of sort of like actively litigating where the

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Speaker 6: state's electors were going to go. So it kind of

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Speaker 6: cast their lot for the one person. And then that's

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Speaker 6: sort of again like the fake elector's thing is actually

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Speaker 6: that it's not an entirely misleading term, but misleading in

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Speaker 6: the respect that it's not like they were trying to

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Speaker 6: commit fraud or anything. They were openly trying a leadgal

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Speaker 6: strategy basically, right.

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Speaker 4: So where they're getting hit is signing a paper that says,

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Speaker 4: now I feel bad for one woman and if she

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Speaker 4: can prove it, I think she should get off. She

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Speaker 4: says she thought she was signing a sign in sheet.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, Now, if that's nonsense, and that they can

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Speaker 4: prove that she's just coming up with BS, then I

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Speaker 4: see you throw the book at her.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: One of the women like, look, I was just a meeting.

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Speaker 4: Everybody was signing it. I signed. I'm here.

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Speaker 5: If there's a time next to her signature, then I think.

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Speaker 4: She has to be found, not heal checked. And why

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Speaker 4: I say seven thirty five here, it's when you became

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Speaker 4: a duly elected elector. The others are top party officials,

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Speaker 4: you know, who are saying, like, we are the electors,

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Speaker 4: and yeah, their plan was we're going to send these

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Speaker 4: to Mike Pence, and Mike Pence will then look, oh,

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Speaker 4: Michigan sent us two batches of electors, which is exactly

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Speaker 4: what happened in eighteen seventy two, except it was like

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Speaker 4: South Carolina and Georgia and Florida, and we have two.

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Speaker 4: I can't rule on anything. This has to go back

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Speaker 4: somewhere else. And then Ted Cruz is saying, send it

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Speaker 4: to a commission. In eighteen seventy two, they did form

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Speaker 4: a commission that comes up with the compromise around Tilden Hayes,

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Speaker 4: And so that was what they were trying to get to.

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Speaker 4: And so then the question is did they have enough

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Speaker 4: rational belief that what they were saying was founded in

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Speaker 4: sincerity or was it just completely fake? Some of that

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Speaker 4: we'll have to do with text messages. I'm sure that

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Speaker 4: they've obtained emails that they've obtained. But that's what's always

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Speaker 4: bothered me about these questions that if you fundamentally, genuinely,

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Speaker 4: honestly believe that you're the elector even though.

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Speaker 5: You're not, than what how do we go from there?

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Speaker 5: How do we serort that out?

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Speaker 4: Now, you guys on the right of the ones that

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Speaker 4: believe in absolute truth, So I have less sympathy.

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Speaker 3: Facts don't care about feelings.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, you felt like you were an elector. The

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Speaker 5: facts say otherwise my.

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Speaker 3: Truth that I was a Trump elector.

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Speaker 4: Yes, you're you're relying on all this postmodernism that RUFO

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Speaker 4: loves to dismantle.

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Speaker 9: That's right.

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Speaker 3: So you know, that's a really interesting point on.

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Speaker 6: The Manhattan charges because as we're as we were making

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Speaker 6: that point, I was thinking, there was a really searing

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Speaker 6: imagery to Donald Trump being the first president, first former president.

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Speaker 3: Indicted in every news station had the.

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Speaker 6: Cameras following his plane up to Manhattan, and they were

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Speaker 6: doing like twenty four hour Trump Watch basically around that indictment.

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Speaker 6: This one is much more serious from the perspective of

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Speaker 6: the left. This one is much more substantive and credible.

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Speaker 6: And you've already I think lost the public's attention. And

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Speaker 6: that's not to say the whole public has tuned out.

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Speaker 6: That is to say, no now though, that this is

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Speaker 6: a blob, Like the indictments are a blob for people

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Speaker 6: who don't have the misfortune that we do of paying

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Speaker 6: attention to every little new development in the breaking news cycle.

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Speaker 6: This is all really going to blend together. And you

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Speaker 6: know they're not equal. These indictments are not equal, and

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Speaker 6: that is pretty clear when you make a side by

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Speaker 6: side comparison of them. So the indictment fatigue and exhaustion,

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Speaker 6: it's not just that it's the just sort of the

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Speaker 6: blending together. It's not just that people are starting to

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Speaker 6: tune out. It's that when you're adding legal layer on

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Speaker 6: top of legal layer, it's really complicated. And I think

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Speaker 6: it gets harder for Democrats, for the left, or for

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Speaker 6: the anti Trump's center, maybe even the anti Trump right

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Speaker 6: to penetrate the public consciousness every time after you sort

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Speaker 6: of not you personally, but after the credibility was all

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Speaker 6: these mental gymnastics to say that Alvin Brand had a

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Speaker 6: grave and serious case, and you know that's not to

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Speaker 6: say that literally book yes, yeah, and things that people

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Speaker 6: already understood about Donald Trump. So when you've already exhausted

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Speaker 6: these like huge, big breaking news cycles where you have

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Speaker 6: the sirns out and all of that over bookkeeping, I

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Speaker 6: think a lot of the public's attention has been lost.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but nobody listens to me. So what are you

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Speaker 4: gonna do? So you don't think he's going to go

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Speaker 4: to the grand jury? So he has now three days.

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Speaker 4: He was given four days to appear tell his side

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Speaker 4: of the story, which we don't have a legal analyst here.

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Speaker 4: I'm certainly not one. That seems unusual to me. So

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Speaker 4: it feels like usually it's behind closed it's just behind

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Speaker 4: closed doors, and they get they get to hear from

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Speaker 4: just the prosecutor, and you have no chance to make

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Speaker 4: a defense of yourself. Maybe for whatever reason, in the

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Speaker 4: federal process it's slightly different, or maybe because he's the president,

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Speaker 4: he's different in any of that. They gave him four days,

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Speaker 4: he's now down to three.

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Speaker 6: Uh.

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Speaker 4: What Jack Smith is, according to CNN setting signals by

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Speaker 4: going a subway.

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Speaker 3: We gotta play this, we have this, we gotta play this.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 6: So Ryan just teased this, but this is an actual

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Speaker 6: CNN segment between by the way, not just random cranks

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Speaker 6: they had on air. This is John King and Dana Bash,

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Speaker 6: two of their most prize and treasured talents. There's nothing

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Speaker 6: more I can say to set it up. You actually

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Speaker 6: just have to watch it.

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Speaker 10: Jack Smith is tight lipped. He was spotted today by

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Speaker 10: CNN going to Subway for lunch, picking up a sandwich,

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Speaker 10: leaving and not saying a word. So no comment from

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Speaker 10: the Special Counsel's Office on whether they plan to indict

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Speaker 10: Donald Trump and when that is potentially going to happen

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Speaker 10: for the second time for a federal case.

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Speaker 11: Remember when the Classified Documents Target letter, when Trump announced

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Speaker 11: that there's a lot of commentary goes Jack Smith making

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Speaker 11: a mistake? Care is he leaving this all to Donald Trump?

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Speaker 11: And then they released the indictment and we all said, wow, wow,

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Speaker 11: we read it, We saw the documentation, We saw the

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Speaker 11: level of detail. Jack Smith going to Subway today is

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Speaker 11: a message to Donald Trump. Donald Trump tries to intimidate people,

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Speaker 11: tries to bully people, he tries to scare you away.

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Speaker 11: That was Jack Smith with no words and a simple

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Speaker 11: five dollars sub in his hand, saying I'm here, I'm

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Speaker 11: not going to Yeah. The imagery was was intentional and

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Speaker 11: spoke by you.

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Speaker 6: So what's crazy to me about that is Dana Bash

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Speaker 6: might actually know there was intentionality behind that imagery. Like

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Speaker 6: if Jack Smith is actually seriously going to subway and

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Speaker 6: leaking the footage or telling CNN to have their cameras

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Speaker 6: there and that's why she said it was, that's even

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Speaker 6: more pathetic than CNN. And by the way, I'm just

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Speaker 6: realizing it. That is a subway around the corner from CNN.

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Speaker 6: That's like two blocks from CNN. If even so it

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Speaker 6: I've just solve the case on air, just like Sherlott

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Speaker 6: palms the subway video, it's like this, he took.

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Speaker 4: A car to well the department does depart department just

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Speaker 4: has a new building down there too that I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I think maybe they have well, there's enormous amounts of office

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Speaker 4: space down there.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of legal work, right.

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Speaker 4: So, and he's a special whatever, so they probably have

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Speaker 4: a little space down there. But yes, I think your

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Speaker 4: point is interesting, like did Dana Bash and John King

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Speaker 4: like get a text message from somebody saying, hey, this

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Speaker 4: was intentional, because otherwise how do they come up on

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Speaker 4: their own with the idea that a guy getting a

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Speaker 4: sandwich is a signal to Donald Trump.

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Speaker 5: It feels like you have to be told that exactly.

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Speaker 4: And if they're told that, then it's true, Well he

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Speaker 4: really is through CNN setting a signal.

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Speaker 5: Weird.

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Speaker 3: They had their cameras at the subway.

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Speaker 6: That's another part of I don't know why, ridiculous so seriously,

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Speaker 6: but it is really funny and kind of bizarre because

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Speaker 6: it's like Kim Kardashian tipping off the paparazzis, paparazzi saying

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Speaker 6: I'm going.

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Speaker 3: To be here at this time.

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Speaker 6: Someone told them to have cameras there, and either they

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Speaker 6: were following Jack Smith because there was the target letter

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Speaker 6: had been you know, announced by Donald Trump on troop Social,

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Speaker 6: so they had just been following him anyway.

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Speaker 3: But to your point, even.

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Speaker 6: If that's not the case, even if you know they

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Speaker 6: weren't tipped off to be by to be at the subway,

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Speaker 6: it does sound like they were tipped off that this

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Speaker 6: was intentional. And that's again I think that's even more

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Speaker 6: pathetic than CNN just coming to that conclusion on their own.

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Speaker 4: I think we need more analysis of this. It looked

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Speaker 4: like one foot long sub.

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Speaker 5: Is that right.

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Speaker 3: I thought it looked at a SI.

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Speaker 4: We'll have to go back and look at this footage closer.

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Speaker 4: So it looks like one foot long sub which is like,

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Speaker 4: wait a minute, okay. Jack's like, hey, I need lunch.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to subway. Yeah, anybody need anything? Nobody needed

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Speaker 4: anything nobody else, nobody needed like an oatmeal raisin cookie.

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Speaker 5: I find that suspicious. They have excellent cookies.

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Speaker 4: And if somebody's going the subway and they ask you

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Speaker 4: if you want anything, yeah, which you're going to tell.

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Speaker 5: Me you want a cookie?

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Speaker 3: Most people would.

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Speaker 5: So did he not tell his co workers that he

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Speaker 5: was going to subway.

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Speaker 6: Or he knew the cameras were going to be on

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Speaker 6: him and he didn't want to send a bad message

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Speaker 6: to the kids about.

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Speaker 3: Eating cookies for lunch.

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Speaker 5: That could be.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 6: It's hard to say, but well, we'll pay attention to

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Speaker 6: this story as it develops. Well, be sure to bring

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Speaker 6: you any updates on Jacksmith's lunch preferences. Ron DeSantis sat

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Speaker 6: down with Jake Tapper of CNN yesterday, which is actually

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Speaker 6: interesting in and of itself. Ron DeSantis is obviously pretty

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Speaker 6: known for avoiding or not avoiding, so much as stewing

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Speaker 6: corporate press, legacy media and being really aggressive about that,

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Speaker 6: making it an intentional strategy. His team actually, as he's

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Speaker 6: been in the governor's office, has intentionally cut corporate press

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Speaker 6: legacy media out and for good reason. By the way,

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Speaker 6: he had an absolute hit job done on him by

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Speaker 6: CBS sixty minutes once, and after that it really snowballed

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Speaker 6: into a broader strategy that we are blocking access. If

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Speaker 6: you don't change your ways, if you don't give us

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Speaker 6: a fair shake, just like you would give any Democrat,

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Speaker 6: then we are going to cut off access to So

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Speaker 6: it's interesting.

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Speaker 4: That he sat down sign of how well his campaign

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Speaker 4: is going, that he's rethinking.

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Speaker 5: It's that strategy.

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Speaker 6: My colleague Eddy Scary wrote in The Federalist actually a

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Speaker 6: couple of weeks ago, a piece that I wonder if

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Speaker 6: this implanted that in the desantisis team team's brain basically

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Speaker 6: like he is DeSantis's best when he's in adversarial conversations

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Speaker 6: with reporters and to sort of rejuvenate.

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Speaker 3: His campaign, he should be doing that all the time.

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Speaker 3: And so here he is on CNA. Let's roll a

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Speaker 3: few clips here, a few highlights.

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Speaker 6: He obviously reacted to the Donald Trump news, and so

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Speaker 6: he also reacted to news about our questions about his campaign,

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Speaker 6: the state of his campaign, his poll numbers. So let's

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Speaker 6: end Wokeness and then Ukraine. But let's start and we'll

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Speaker 6: just we'll run through some of these highlights. Here's the

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Speaker 6: first clip.

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Speaker 12: Some of your supporters are disappointed that your campaign has

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Speaker 12: yet to catch fire the way they would want in

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Speaker 12: terms of polling. One Republican polster, one who is sympathetic

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Speaker 12: to you, I was asking her about your campaign and

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Speaker 12: she said she thought the issue was you bumped up

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Speaker 12: at the beginning because voters, Republican voters saw you as

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Speaker 12: a more electable conservative like Trump, like Trump without the baggage.

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Speaker 12: But then they say, as you go further and further

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Speaker 12: to the right on some of these divisive social issues

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Speaker 12: that could alienate moderate suburban moms, et cetera, Republican voters

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Speaker 12: see you as less and less electable. What do you

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Speaker 12: say to that analysis.

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Speaker 13: We I donal think that's true. I mean, the proof

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Speaker 13: is in the pudding. I mean I took a state

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Speaker 13: that had been a one point state, and we want

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Speaker 13: it by twenty percentage points, one point five million votes.

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Speaker 13: Our bread and butter were people like suburban moms.

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Speaker 6: So that's him being questioned on the state of his campaign.

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Speaker 3: Let's row the next club.

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Speaker 12: The biggest issues were the number two issue, women in

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Speaker 12: racial or ethnic minorities are discriminated against in the army.

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Speaker 5: Wokeness is listed here.

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Speaker 12: But it's only number nine, so that would suggest that

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Speaker 12: wokeness is not as big.

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Speaker 13: Well, but I think there's an issue about like not

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Speaker 13: everyone really knows what wokeness is. I mean, I've defined it,

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Speaker 13: but a lot of people who rail against wokeness can't

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Speaker 13: even define it. And so I think it's a sense of,

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Speaker 13: you know, this is not something that's that's holding true

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Speaker 13: to the core martial values that make the military unique.

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Speaker 13: And I can tell you the veterans, you don't have

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Speaker 13: to look far and wide, go to a VFW hall,

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Speaker 13: go to an American legion. There's huge amount of concern

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Speaker 13: about the direction that the military is going.

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Speaker 6: With one more before we start breaking these down. This

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Speaker 6: is Desantas responding to the Jack Smith target letter to

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Speaker 6: Donald Trump. Actually just probably hours after that news broke.

440
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,640
Speaker 12: If Jack Smith has evidence of criminality, should Donald Trump

441
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 12: be held accountable.

442
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,639
Speaker 13: So here's the problem this country is going down the

443
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 13: road of criminalizing political differences, and I think that's wrong.

444
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 13: Alvin Bragg stretched the statute in Manhattan to be able

445
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 13: to try to target Donald Trump. Most people, even people

446
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 13: on the left, acknowledge if that wasn't Trump, that case

447
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,120
Speaker 13: would not have likely been brought against the normal civilian.

448
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 6: So Ryan, Actually, we do have Chris Ruffo on later

449
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:29,879
Speaker 6: in the show, and I think we'll probably have some

450
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,160
Speaker 6: questions for him about how he's had conversations with Ron

451
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 6: DeSantis about wokeness, defining wokeness and then once you define

452
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 6: it sort of targeting with targeting it with policies. But

453
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 6: what did you make of DeSantis's back and forth with

454
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 6: Tapper on those questions.

455
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,919
Speaker 4: First of all, a guy who had a viral and

456
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 4: extremely damaging story about eating pudding with his fingers should

457
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 4: never say the proof is in the pudding.

458
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 3: You were very fixated on food today.

459
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 5: Don't go yeah, don't go anywhere near pudding.

460
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 4: And then he talks about bread and butter, like the

461
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 4: knock on him has been some of these viral videos.

462
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 3: Does he eat that with his fingers too? The butter?

463
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,479
Speaker 5: See, now you've got me thinking about that.

464
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 4: Maybe like he's if he's hungry and he's stuck in

465
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 4: a two hour meeting and all all that's in front

466
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 4: of him is butter or he's on a private plane.

467
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 5: I don't know what he's gonna do.

468
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 4: Never go full Klobe, but I do think it is

469
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 4: an important question because as effective as Rufo has been

470
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 4: at making, you know, his kind of culture war critique

471
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 4: to be the thing that we're all wrapped up in

472
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 4: and obsessed with, the guy, the candidate who adopted it

473
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 4: has flamed out, and the Republicans who have adopted it

474
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 4: generally have have not seen dividends in the way that

475
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 4: you would hope if you're a partisan Republican.

476
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 5: You know, the Democrats increased.

477
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 4: Their numbers in the Senate, they they lost their their their.

478
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,160
Speaker 5: Numbers in the House by much less than they thought

479
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 5: they were going to be.

480
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,200
Speaker 4: So why And I thought Jake Tapper, channeling that that

481
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 4: female GOP polster put it well well, that DeSantis was

482
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 4: Trump without the baggage and electable Trump. He then went

483
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 4: far right in his both his style and his policy,

484
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 4: which is leading people to think, oh, well, maybe he's

485
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 4: not electable, so let's go with the more fun guy.

486
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 5: If it's a if.

487
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 4: It's a long shot anyway, And the problem with electability

488
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 4: arguments is that some of it is vibes, some of

489
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,159
Speaker 4: it is numbers and polls, and he's just not polling

490
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 4: as well against Biden as Trump is, and people can

491
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 4: see those numbers, right. So do you think that there

492
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 4: was a different path for him that wouldn't have led

493
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 4: him to this place where he's Trump without the baggage,

494
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 4: but also without the electability.

495
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 6: I don't know, because i think we're still seeing that emerge,

496
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 6: and I'm curious as to whether Ron DeSantis can kind

497
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 6: of as we get to debate. I mean, the first

498
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 6: debate is less than a month away now, and after

499
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 6: debates you really start to see for better or worse

500
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 6: than some cases. You know, at certain points, for Marc Rivio,

501
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 6: these were really good and at other points they were

502
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 6: momentum killing.

503
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 3: And you know, you get you lose money.

504
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 6: People see you in a debate, and they see the

505
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,239
Speaker 6: media coverage of you in a debate, whether or not

506
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 6: that's actually reflective of what the public thought, and they

507
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,239
Speaker 6: pull their funds or they put more funds into you,

508
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 6: and then the media coverage can change. So I'm curious

509
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 6: if he's like right now, if they're going back to

510
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 6: the drawing board. He had a great answer to somebody

511
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 6: in Iowa yesterday who I think described herself as a

512
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 6: super Trump.

513
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 3: Fan, and yeah, it was a good clip.

514
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 6: And DeSantis comes in and basically says, listen, the way

515
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 6: Donald Trump was treated was horrible. I am going to

516
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 6: change it. I'm the one that can actually make the change.

517
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 6: And that is to the polster that Tappers challenge channeling

518
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 6: what was it wasn't just that he was Trump without

519
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 6: the baggage, it was he he's Trump, but in this

520
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 6: he has this like spirit of trump Ism, as people

521
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 6: on the right would describe it.

522
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 3: But he's also able to pass legislation.

523
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 6: He's not mired in the palace intrigue of the Trump

524
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 6: White House, and he's doing things.

525
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 3: He's proactive with policy, he's.

526
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:08,360
Speaker 6: Coming up with new ideas, and I don't think that

527
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 6: he has been able to define himself that way in

528
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 6: the campaign.

529
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 3: He was as governor, but in the campaign when you are.

530
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 6: Again he's talking to Jake Tapper in this planned interview

531
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 6: for the last few days, it's at least been publicly announced,

532
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 6: and what happens, Jack Smith said.

533
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 3: The target letter to Donald Truck.

534
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:27,199
Speaker 5: I'm it for that.

535
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 6: So it just I mean, I think there's a really

536
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 6: possible and people understand this obviously, but it looks really

537
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 6: like Donald Trump dominating the media cycles is also going

538
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 6: to have him dominating the polls, and so far we

539
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 6: have seen no evidence to the contrary. In fact, we've

540
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 6: seen Trump's numbers or the gap between Trump and DeSantis

541
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 6: grow the more Donald Trump is being hit with indictments

542
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 6: and legal challenges, the more he is dominating the media cycle,

543
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 6: the more he's dominated the.

544
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 3: Polls so far.

545
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 4: And the phrase to your point that he keeps using

546
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 4: is get it done right, And he used with that

547
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 4: Trump supporting woman and he's like, basically, Trump's good, He's great,

548
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 4: he makes you laugh, all those things. But I'm going

549
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 4: to actually get the things done that he said he

550
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 4: was going to get done. But I think that momentum

551
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 4: and winning is the thing that you need to persuade

552
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,239
Speaker 4: people that you're actually going to get it done. Like

553
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 4: winning begets more winning, and if you are losing, you

554
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 4: get the stench of an l on you.

555
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 5: And then when you say I'm going.

556
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 4: To get it done, people are like, Okay, that's great,

557
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 4: that you're going to get done, but you can't even

558
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 4: win this election. Your poll numbers of cutting whatever, they

559
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 4: have a third or whatever since you've come out, And

560
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 4: you saw that on the Democratic primary a lot that

561
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 4: people had a lot of questions about actually Barack Obama's

562
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 4: electability in two thousand and eight. But winning Iowa and

563
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 4: then polling evenly with Hillary Clinton was it. That was

564
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 4: the answer, can't you can't win? Oh, well, I just won,

565
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 4: Now I can win. And Bernie Sanders answered some of

566
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 4: those electability questions as well by winning a bunch of races,

567
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 4: and then when he lost some critical battleground races, it

568
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,160
Speaker 4: all came rushing back that, oh yeah, he can't win.

569
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 4: And so you had a bunch And so the idea

570
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 4: of whether you can get something done or whether you're

571
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 4: electable is so ephemeral and so related to just how

572
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 4: you're doing. It's an unfair kind of circular reasoning that

573
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 4: people have. But that's the world that we live in.

574
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 4: And right now he's kind of undermining his own case

575
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 4: by flailing around the campaign trail.

576
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 6: Now they got into actually foreign policy a bit, not

577
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 6: something that Ron DeSantis would deal quite as much with

578
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 6: as governors who would as president, although Florida is a

579
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 6: big state with international waters on it, so he has

580
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 6: a little bit of that. But Taber asked him obviously

581
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 6: he's also a veteran, But Taber asked him here about Ukraine,

582
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 6: and this is how Rond DeSantis responded.

583
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 13: We are going to approach the world instead of Europe

584
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 13: being the focus like it has been since World War Two.

585
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 13: And it was understandable why it would be after World

586
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 13: War Two, NATO stopping the Soviets. I get it, but

587
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 13: now the Asia Pacific really needs to be to our

588
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 13: generation what Europe was to the post World War two generation.

589
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 13: So I would have the Europeans do more in Europe,

590
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 13: that's more in their backyard, that's more of an interest

591
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 13: for them.

592
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 7: You know.

593
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 13: I would be willing to be helpful to try to

594
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 13: bring it to a conclusion there, but I am not

595
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 13: going to diminish our stocks and not send to Taiwan.

596
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 13: I'm not going to make us less capable to respond

597
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,239
Speaker 13: to exigencies. And you've got to care at least as

598
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 13: much about your own border as you do about foreign borders.

599
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 6: Great, some people on the right have been a little

600
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 6: hesitant on DeSantis when it comes to Ukraine. When it

601
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 6: comes to whether or not he's willing to sort of

602
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 6: go full Trump or full like New Right, as it's

603
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 6: called in conservative movement circles, he said, you know, I

604
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 6: don't think anybody wants to see US troops in Ukraine.

605
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 6: In his interview with Jake Tapper as well, in addition

606
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 6: to sort of flushing out that point and making the

607
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 6: juxtaposition with China, Ryan, I want to play one more

608
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 6: clip because this one was sort of funny too, of CNN,

609
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 6: a CNN panel reaction to the interview, Let's roll this

610
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 6: final club.

611
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 14: I think what we show today was that I was

612
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 14: happy to see him sit down with I forget what

613
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 14: they call you now, corporate media.

614
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I'll take that. Yeah, that's a nice verst,

615
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 5: trust me.

616
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 3: I know.

617
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 14: But I was glad to see him sit down outside

618
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 14: of his bubble because then it helps him look more electable.

619
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 14: I mean, it's one thing to do a Joe Rogan

620
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 14: interview or kind of the fringes. It's another thing to

621
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 14: sit down with a consummate journalist. And I think today

622
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 14: he was able to handle those questions and deal with them.

623
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 14: And although I don't I don't believe in his policies

624
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 14: per se. But he actually looked decently presidential today. I'm

625
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 14: not sure it was a reset because everything is I'm

626
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 14: anti woke, anti woke. Today he just inserted in the military.

627
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 14: But at least today he started to give the ViBe's

628
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 14: still a Scott Jennings things. He started to give the

629
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 14: vibe that he could be president of the United States.

630
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 6: Novel observation there from CNN. It's a vibe primary.

631
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 4: There you go, what did you make of that? Kind

632
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 4: of stealing my bit there? But I do like the

633
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 4: idea that they think that appearing on CNN makes you

634
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 4: seem like a presidential candidate. Appearing on breaking points and counterpoints,

635
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 4: that's what makes a president.

636
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean it does it make you look electable

637
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 6: to talk to the twenty thousand remaining people watching.

638
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 3: In the middle of the day.

639
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 4: I mean I get their point, Like if he is

640
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 4: if the problem that he's having is he's seen as

641
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 4: too fringe because he's like half the things he says

642
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 4: regular people don't understand.

643
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 3: He launched with elon that.

644
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 4: He's too online, he's too on Twitter in particular, then

645
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 4: getting off of that and seeming like a more normal

646
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 4: person eating pudding with a spoon rather than your fingers.

647
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 4: Like these these are things that you can do as

648
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 4: a politician to make yourself appear more palatable to a

649
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 4: general electorate.

650
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 6: I guess you've he's lost the rank group. But I

651
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 6: can tell just because it's a pudding. That was when

652
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 6: you were like, I've done, don't say gay that bill,

653
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 6: stop woke that bill. You were still thinking about supporting DeSantis.

654
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 6: But when he ate the pudding with his fingers, that's

655
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 6: when you said.

656
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 4: Absolutely no, check plays out. Can't do this to maintain

657
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 4: some dignity.

658
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 6: No. Your point about CNN is an interesting one also

659
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 6: because they don't. But Cary Seller's there just referred to

660
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 6: Jake Tapper as a consummate journalist. And it's not so

661
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 6: much that Ron DeSantis is unwilling to have conversations with

662
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 6: these so called consummate journalists. It's the problem with the

663
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 6: Jake Tappers of the world is that they sort of

664
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 6: fundamentally misunderstand DeSantis, but more importantly, Desanta's supporters. And that's

665
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 6: one of the things DeSantis said in his back and

666
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 6: forth with the woman we referenced earlier, the Trump supporting woman.

667
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 6: I think this was in Iowa. He said it's not

668
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 6: he did the Trump thing. He said, it's not about me,

669
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 6: it's about you. And that is really, really really powerful.

670
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 6: That could be one of the things that helps some

671
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 6: sort of claw back at Trump again. I think this

672
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 6: gap is really huge, and the more Trump is in

673
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 6: the news perhaps insurmountable. I don't think it matters very

674
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 6: much as if CNNC's run dasantis as presidential, but he

675
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 6: can generate news cycles when he goes back and forth

676
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 6: with somebody like Tapper, and they're positive news cycles for

677
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 6: him in a Republican primary. So I think it was

678
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 6: a decent showing for DeSantis on CNN yesterday.

679
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 5: Sure, good enough.

680
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 6: Moving on to our next conversation. Here we're talking about

681
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 6: Joe Manchin, one another one of Ryan's favorite politicians.

682
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:24,719
Speaker 5: I love Joe Manchin.

683
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 3: All right, Right, what happened with Joe manchon this week?

684
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 4: So he was in New Hampshire, you know, which is

685
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 4: may or may not have a primary, but it's still

686
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 4: kind of symbolic in our minds of the launching of

687
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 4: the presidential campaign season. So anytime you go to New Hampshire,

688
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 4: you're setting a signal. Hey talk about me as a

689
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 4: presidential candidate, especially if you're going with a dark Bundy

690
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 4: organization that has raised seventy million dollars and says that

691
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 4: it's going to have ballot access in all fifty states,

692
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 4: not the Green Party talking about no Labels, which is

693
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 4: basically private dec We hadge Fun and other mobile putting

694
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 4: together money behind this organization to say that you can

695
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 4: we just get people like Joe Manchin and John Huntsman,

696
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 4: Lisa Mkowskiff, she'll join us to just common sense solutions

697
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 4: that involve a lot of cutting taxes and cutting regulations.

698
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 3: Get some adults in that room.

699
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, basically like you know, nineties era republicanism.

700
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 3: Or democratism Clinton, they just.

701
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 5: Want to go back to the nineties, just nineties nostalgia.

702
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 3: They want low taxes, right.

703
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 5: And so we put up a one here.

704
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 4: So Joe Manchin up at at this unw at this

705
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 4: no Labels event where they are very kind of not

706
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 4: subtly recruiting him to be their independent candidate, and he

707
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 4: continues to tease at. Dick Durbin, uh the other day

708
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 4: called Joe Mansion history's greatest political teas accurate. No lives

709
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 4: detected in that description and so he sat down with

710
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 4: with these moguls to talk about how common sense solutions

711
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 4: are needed and maybe he'll be the one to provide it.

712
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 4: I think people have to understand that the context for

713
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 4: this is that you don't want to make any one

714
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 4: hundred percent predictions.

715
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 5: But he's close to a.

716
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 4: Dead man walking in West Virginia. In his re election

717
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 4: race in twenty twenty four, Jim Justice has announced he's

718
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 4: going to run against him, a former Democrat, former friend

719
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 4: who's now a Republican and not a friend. And the

720
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 4: partisan structures that he's running up against in West Virginia

721
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 4: are to me so insurmountable that even somebody who is

722
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 4: an adept politician like he is in West Virginia and

723
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 4: well liked.

724
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 5: You go around West Virginia.

725
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 4: Everybody likes Joe Manchin, and the left has to acknowledge

726
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 4: that he's good at the kind of the retail politics

727
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,879
Speaker 4: of it, and in a small state where you get

728
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 4: to meet most of these people over a long career,

729
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 4: he was governor's Secretary of state, state senator. His family

730
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 4: has been involved in Virginia politics for three generations. But

731
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 4: it's just such a Republican state at this point that

732
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 4: you've got too many voters who are just willing to say,

733
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 4: I like Joe Manchin, but I'm a Republican, and I

734
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 4: also liked Jim Justice too, and so.

735
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,879
Speaker 3: Well, hence Jim Justice becoming a.

736
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 4: Republican, right, Yeah, exactly, And Manchin, in fact, Mansion helped

737
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 4: trigger this. I think nineteen ninety four, Mansion was behind

738
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 4: the Republican the Democrats for the Republican Governor Movement, which

739
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 4: really kind of busted the dam in West Virginia and

740
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 4: helped create the Republican party that is now going to

741
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 4: eat him alive.

742
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 6: If Manchin ran as a Republican and say Jim Justice

743
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 6: hadn't gotten into the primary, so it was Mansion and

744
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 6: Alex Mooney. If he had switched parties, he would win easily,

745
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 6: just with.

746
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 4: The r Ish. Maybe the problem is, and I say

747
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 4: this as somebody who's glad that he came back to

748
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:58,760
Speaker 4: the IRA and helped pass the biggest climate spending package

749
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 4: in world his but I think that his support for

750
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 4: the American Rescue Plan, he was a pretty reliable, if

751
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 4: annoying Democratic vote throughout twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two,

752
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 4: and I think that that really did actually cost him

753
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 4: back home. I'm not going to write a profile and

754
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 4: courage book about Mansion, but you know, compared to what

755
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 4: West Virginia would be expected to produce, which is like

756
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 4: a Shelley Moore Capito who's going to vote for zero

757
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 4: democratic priorities, Mansion was a godsend for Democrats in twenty

758
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 4: twenty one and twenty two. And I think he's going

759
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 4: to and I think he'll pay the price for that now.

760
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 4: Like I said, he was extraordinarily annoying all the way

761
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 4: through and cut what could have been a seriously ambitious

762
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 4: agenda down to a much smaller one, but still big

763
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 4: enough that it's causing him a lot of problems.

764
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 5: And so that leaves him with.

765
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 4: Maybe this escape hatch of a vanity presidential run and

766
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 4: then a deal where, because he's a deal maker at heart,

767
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 4: a deal where at some point he drops out for

768
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 4: some type of concessions for who knows what.

769
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's something, really, there's something really powerful about being

770
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 6: able to say I was at the table when we

771
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 6: were debating the American Rescue Actor that or whatever it

772
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 6: is and saying, listen, they pushed me to do X,

773
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 6: Y and Z, and I just could see him.

774
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 3: I don't think he actually ever will become a Republican.

775
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 6: So I feel like he has this sort of emotional

776
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 6: attachment to the Democratic Party, and he did vote, I

777
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 6: mean he voted in that direction, not in initially more

778
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 6: capital way, because I think he is, you know, sort

779
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 6: of an old school Democrat. Maybe not in the way

780
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 6: that modern democrats like or would define that now, but

781
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 6: he really I don't know. I feel like if he

782
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 6: did decide to become a Republican O La Jim Justice,

783
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 6: he would be a kind of an unstoppable force in

784
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 6: West Virginia. But that's pure speculation. Your point is very

785
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 6: well taken. Let's actually just roll his clips so people

786
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 6: can see him seated next to a well quaffed John

787
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 6: Huntsman border up in New Hampshire.

788
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 3: Take a look at this video.

789
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 15: I think people are getting ahead of the putting the

790
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 15: card ahead of the horse. We're here to make sure

791
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 15: that the American people have an option, and the option is,

792
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 15: can you move the political parties off their respective size.

793
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 15: They've gone too far right and too far left. If

794
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 15: that movement can move, but they can't be done. That

795
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 15: can't be done. Nless they're threatened only can threatenings have

796
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 15: people out there that says, listen, they can't win. Either

797
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 15: side can't win without the independent, without that independent, that

798
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 15: center left, center right, an independent Republican, an independent Democrat.

799
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 15: If they have another option, then they're in trouble. Those

800
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 15: parties are in trouble. So they're going to have to say, Okay,

801
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 15: we're going to look at this again. I don't think

802
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 15: unless we stay over here that they're going to vote

803
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 15: for us. Maybe we can move. Let's see what happens.

804
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 16: It's too early, but even things.

805
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 15: We need to do something.

806
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 6: I'm I I see one.

807
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 16: That's because if you.

808
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 6: Do get in the race and you spoil the election,

809
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:54,959
Speaker 6: would you would that factor into true.

810
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:55,720
Speaker 16: I've never been any.

811
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 15: Race I've ever spoiled. I've any races to win, and

812
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 15: if I get a race, I want to win.

813
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 6: So oh, he was ready for that one. He also

814
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 6: told Kaitlyn Collins that he says, I haven't made any decision,

815
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 6: nor will I make a decision until the end of

816
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 6: the year.

817
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 3: And this goes along with C three.

818
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 6: If you were wondering, you know, when are they going

819
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 6: to talk about Gavin Newsom, the most formidable man in

820
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 6: the Democratic primary. Potentially, here you have Democratic strategist Doug

821
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 6: Shown saying in an Orange County register at ed that

822
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 6: Gavin Newsom wants to run for president. This wasn't sort

823
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 6: of a spilling of any tea. It was more just

824
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 6: reading the tea leaves, looking at what's out there and saying,

825
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 6: this is a guy. And I'm sure Duck Shown knows

826
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 6: a little bit of inside stuff too, And I think

827
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 6: it's probably pretty clear writing is on the wall for

828
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 6: a lot of people that Gavin Newsom wants to run.

829
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 6: So I think the question when you look at both

830
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 6: those stories side by side, two very powerful Democrats in

831
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 6: their own states, seems to me almost that they're running

832
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 6: out the clock, and that there's an idea of whether

833
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 6: Joe Biden, something happens to Joe Biden, that they are

834
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 6: positioned in case something goes wrong medically for Joe Biden,

835
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 6: in case there's a surprise decision one day that he

836
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 6: doesn't run because of his age, because of his health,

837
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 6: And now they're in a position where they can jump in.

838
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 6: And I think Mansion maybe using the third party excuse

839
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 6: to do that, or should we be taking the Mansion

840
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 6: third party spoiler threat very seriously, I.

841
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 4: Don't think so, because I think, like I said saying earlier,

842
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 4: he's such a deal maker that you could buy him

843
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 4: out of that for whatever kind of concession he wants

844
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 4: if it looks like he's going to get seven or

845
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 4: eight percent or something like that and throw the election

846
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 4: to Trump.

847
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 5: But I think you're right.

848
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 4: About the analysis of the status quo because right right now,

849
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,280
Speaker 4: the kind of no labels argument in the Mansion argument

850
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 4: pretends that Joe Biden doesn't exist, like it pretends that

851
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 4: Bernie Sanderson won the presidential campaign.

852
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 5: It's like the parties are in control by the far

853
00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 5: left and the far right.

854
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,760
Speaker 4: It's like, I'm pretty sure that Joe Biden is president

855
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 4: right now. And Joe Biden is not the far left.

856
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 4: He's just the definition of a boring centrist. Like that's

857
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 4: who Joe Biden is. He I'm glad that he has

858
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 4: kind of been dragged a little bit to the left,

859
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 4: but he's still Joe Biden, and he's still he's still

860
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 4: always codes as a centrist, yes either way to voters,

861
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 4: to voters, and so the idea that somebody's going to

862
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,799
Speaker 4: look at Joe Biden and Joe Mansion and see much

863
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 4: daylight between the two of them is a fantasy. They

864
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 4: also do this this thing that he did in that

865
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 4: clip where they say, you know, sixty percent of the

866
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 4: country is independence, Like, okay, yeah, that's true. Half those

867
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 4: are registered as independents, but are always partisan voters with

868
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,959
Speaker 4: either Democrats or Republicans. Like another forty percent of those

869
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 4: are to the left of the Democrats or to the

870
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 4: right of the Republicans, so they're not like centrists sitting

871
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 4: around for Huntsmen and Mansion to team up. You're left

872
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 4: with like maybe ten percent of those independences who are

873
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 4: remotely gettable, and those people don't want to vote for

874
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 4: a spoiler in general, or they probably just rather sit

875
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 4: it out than vote for a spoiler, right, And so

876
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 4: you'd have to have like some health scare and then

877
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 4: maybe Kamala is like the Democratic nominee or something, and

878
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 4: then maybe there's some type of an opening or something.

879
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's I don't even think with Gavin Newsom

880
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 4: that you have a space for somebody on the kind

881
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 4: of center right or center center, like a Mansion.

882
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 6: No, yeah, I agree with that completely, and I think

883
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 6: you know, Newsom has sold himself in California. Interestingly, I

884
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 6: don't think he flies outside of California. I do think

885
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 6: he's charismatic, but I think outside of California he just

886
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 6: gets absolutely torched, even in a Democratic primary. But he

887
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 6: certainly would be able to have a lot of money

888
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,280
Speaker 6: and he would be able to get a lot of media.

889
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 6: So it's not an insane idea that Gavin Newsom could

890
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 6: position himself in a primary. I think the entire no

891
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 6: label shtick, I'm sure we agree on this is just

892
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 6: so cynical. It's weaponizing this American fatigue with the political

893
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 6: system in a way that just advantages the political system.

894
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 6: It's all about exploiting Americans exhaustion with corruption for the

895
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 6: sake of strengthening the ability to stay corrupt, to fortify

896
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 6: the corrupt system. And you can see that by the

897
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 6: people who flock to no labels. In fact, like that's

898
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 6: the most obvious thing in the world. It's just low

899
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 6: taxes and open borders. Like it's on the center left

900
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 6: and the center right. You bring both of them to

901
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 6: both of them together, and it's the worst of both worlds.

902
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 6: And I think the one thing that populace have in

903
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 6: common with centrists is like Why can't we just compromise,

904
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 6: Why can't we just sit down at the table and

905
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 6: do something for people. The problem is that centrists aren't

906
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 6: actually serious. What they want is to sit down at

907
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 6: the table and do something that benefits them. Their version

908
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 6: of compromise is let's help the industry or you know,

909
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 6: let's help the political class. And they do it under

910
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 6: the veil, which is really powerful of compromise. But typically

911
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 6: when people start talking about compromise with Washington, d C.

912
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 3: You should get really nervous.

913
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, everybody loves the idea of compromise.

914
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 3: It's good.

915
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, we're learning kindergarten. They should be doing stuff exactly.

916
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 5: They're exploiting that.

917
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 4: So Daniel bogus Law for The Intercept, went up to

918
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 4: cover this event in New Hampshire. We could put this

919
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 4: last element this So a No Labels board board member

920
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 4: told bogus Law that if Martin Luther King were around today,

921
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 4: he'd be supporting a mansion centrist run and note he

922
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 4: would be basically a member of No Labels.

923
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 5: He wrote.

924
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 4: The board member said doctor King was a Centrist. If

925
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 4: he were alive today, he would be a member of

926
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 4: the Note Labels party. Bogus Law then pointed out to him, Hey,

927
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 4: don't you remember that whole thing where he said the

928
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 4: biggest obstacle to progress is white moderates and he was

929
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 4: the board members kind of shunted it away before he

930
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 4: could answer that question.

931
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 6: But so wasn't this board member in particular was like

932
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 6: an associate of Martin Luther King's? Was he not like

933
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 6: someone who was in the circle of Martin Luther King?

934
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 5: Right?

935
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 4: And we also had that AI image going around of

936
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 4: Donald Trump and Martin Luther King on Twitter.

937
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 5: J you to see that yesterday. No, you can't see it.

938
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 4: You can go find that on social media if you want.

939
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 4: It's MLK and Trump at a diner, you know, at

940
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 4: a diner. Yeah, sitting in a sitting in a like

941
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 4: a like an Ohio diner kind of thing, just enjoying

942
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 4: each other's company.

943
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 5: And ironically no labels.

944
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 4: Gave Donald Trump an award in twenty sixteen as a

945
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,720
Speaker 4: problem solver, a guy who so now they're running against

946
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 4: him as too far right. In twenty sixteen, they were

947
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 4: like elevated him as somebody they would support.

948
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 5: So I guess Martin Luther King too, board member.

949
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 4: That's why is at the diner with Trump, also a

950
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 4: No Labels member.

951
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:47,839
Speaker 3: They were just getting some stuff done.

952
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 4: So I wonder what Martin Luther King thinks about No

953
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 4: Labels going after their former guy.

954
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 3: That would be interesting. Ryan.

955
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 6: I'm really curious to get to this next block because

956
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 6: it's a issue you've been covering very closely. The interscept

957
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:05,919
Speaker 6: has been covering very closely. Let's talk about everything unfolding

958
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 6: as you have her song from Israel coming to Washington,

959
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 6: d C. This week, and the squad reacting and then

960
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 6: establishment Democrats reacting to the squad reaction.

961
00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 3: Break it down for us well.

962
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 4: I mentioned that Daniel Bogos always at that New Hampshire

963
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 4: event and then No Labels event on Monday. We also

964
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 4: had them out at net Roots on Saturday for this

965
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 4: moment where so we'll play this clip. This is You've

966
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 4: got Representative Jan Schakowski of Illinois and Permila Jaya Paul

967
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 4: of Washington, the chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, are

968
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 4: on stage at the net Roots Nation in Chicago, which

969
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 4: is a gathering kind of progressive operatives. They start getting

970
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 4: protested over Israel and specifically over Schaikowski not being on

971
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 4: a bill that would bar the use of US money

972
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 4: to detain Palestinian children, and it evolved slash devolved into this.

973
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 3: Maybe I should just walk on y Can I say something?

974
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 17: Can I say something? As somebody that's been in the

975
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 17: streets and has participated in a lot of demonstrations, I

976
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 17: think I want you to know that we have been

977
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 17: fighting to make it clear that Israel is a racist state,

978
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 17: that the Palestinian people deserve self determination and autonomy.

979
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 3: That the dream, that the dream.

980
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 17: Of a two state solution is flipping away from us,

981
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 17: That it is not that it does not even feel possible,

982
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 17: It does not even feel possible. And I want you

983
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 17: to know that while you may while you may have

984
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 17: arguments with whether or not some of us on stage

985
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 17: or fighting hard enough, I do want you to know

986
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 17: that there is an organized opposition on the other side,

987
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 17: and it isn't the people that are on the state.

988
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 6: What is her staff doing wedding or go to Nutroots,

989
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 6: because this is exactly from like the perspective of your communications.

990
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 3: People. You don't want to have happened.

991
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 6: Is her get up on the stage, start getting booed

992
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:09,800
Speaker 6: at Netroots, which is way more lit than seapack in

993
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 6: terms of like booze and audience engagement and then start

994
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,440
Speaker 6: riffing and get yourself into this situation. Now you have

995
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,720
Speaker 6: a take on how other people reacted to this, and

996
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 6: not just a take but.

997
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 3: Reporting on it too.

998
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 4: But yeah, you've you've seen a lot of politicians get

999
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 4: tripped up by net roots. I think famously you had

1000
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 4: Martin O'Malley, I think, when he was running for president,

1001
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 4: said you know, got protested and said all lives matter,

1002
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 4: and it's like, oh, problem, not the right place to

1003
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 4: say that.

1004
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 5: Don't say that there.

1005
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 4: Bernie Sanders got protested at a net roots everyone does,

1006
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 4: and he just did his very grumpy thing.

1007
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:46,919
Speaker 5: If you don't want me up here, I'll just get

1008
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 5: out of here. Do you leave me alone? Invited me here?

1009
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 5: Now you're yelling at me, come on.

1010
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 4: And so you've got to be prepared for, you know,

1011
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 4: these these moments. And so Giapaul told The New York

1012
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,319
Speaker 4: Times that as soon as she stepped off stage, that

1013
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 4: phrase racist state, which is blunt, was rallying around her head,

1014
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 4: and she's like, oh, that's not going to go well.

1015
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 4: She's in a difficult spot because it is a state

1016
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:18,879
Speaker 4: that has ministers in it who are proudly racist. One

1017
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 4: of them was convicted previously of inciting racism and supporting

1018
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 4: terrorism against Palestinians.

1019
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 5: Like literally, yeah, literally, a minister in the government.

1020
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 4: They say racist things all the time. They have a

1021
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 4: explicitly ethno nationalist orientation that gives rights to citizens based

1022
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 4: on their ethnicity and their religion. You have half the

1023
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 4: population living under the control of the country that doesn't

1024
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 4: have rights, and you have another half that does have rights,

1025
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 4: And so what is that She described it in that

1026
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 4: moment as a racist state. If we can put this

1027
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 4: up and you can pause it and read the whole thing,

1028
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 4: I'll read the entire thing. But here's her clarification of

1029
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 4: what she meant, where she's What she's basically saying here

1030
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,320
Speaker 4: is that she doesn't believe that Zion is an equals racism,

1031
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 4: and that she doesn't believe that the state is fundamentally

1032
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 4: intrinsically from the day it was born racist, but that

1033
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 4: its practices currently are so that of course is not

1034
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,959
Speaker 4: satisfactory to the people who are calling for her head

1035
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 4: and calling for her to, I guess apologize more and more.

1036
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 4: And so they pushed a resolution onto the which we

1037
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 4: can talk about later. They push a resolution onto the

1038
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 4: House floor yesterday which has come, which came a day

1039
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,439
Speaker 4: before Isaac Herzog, the President of Israel, which is different

1040
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 4: than the Prime Minister, is coming to address the Congress.

1041
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,919
Speaker 4: You have most of the squad members saying that they're

1042
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 4: going to boycott this speech by by Herzog. Here we

1043
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,879
Speaker 4: have I think Alexa Andrew Kazu Cortez being asked if

1044
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 4: she plans on attending you address.

1045
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:05,960
Speaker 3: I will not be atending.

1046
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 18: But there's currently a crisis of democracy and apartheid, and

1047
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:11,879
Speaker 18: I think that this is something that has been a consensus.

1048
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 15: Now.

1049
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,320
Speaker 4: The resolution is one of the wildest things I've seen

1050
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 4: put into the oppera in my time covering Congress. If

1051
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 4: we can, we can put up the text of it

1052
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 4: that's a little small. We'll have a bigger one for

1053
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 4: you later, but basically you don't need to read it.

1054
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 4: I'll tell you all three things that it says it can. Interestingly,

1055
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 4: it condemns anti Semitism and xenophobia. It's wondering if any

1056
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 4: Republicans would be like, wait a minute, we're against xenophobia.

1057
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 5: Now are we condemning Trump? Here? What's going on here?

1058
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,760
Speaker 4: It says, then the third one says, we will always

1059
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 4: support Israel always. Israel's like, hm, we could even invade

1060
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 4: Ukraine and you'll still support us, Like it's unconditional. We

1061
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,319
Speaker 4: will always in the future support Israel. And then it

1062
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 4: says Israel is not a racist or apartheid state. Now

1063
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 4: you know why they put racist in there, because that's

1064
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,879
Speaker 4: the word that Jayapaul used. They slip in apartheid there

1065
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 4: because they know that everybody's now going to vote for

1066
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 4: this thing, and it led to a whole bunch of jokes.

1067
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 4: Saying I'm not a racist or apartheid state. T shirt

1068
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,239
Speaker 4: is raising a lot of questions that I thought were

1069
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,920
Speaker 4: answered by my T shirt and me anytime that you

1070
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 4: are pushing the House to just straight up declare that

1071
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 4: you are not something that you are not a racist state,

1072
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 4: you're not an apartheid state. You might have some problems

1073
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 4: that are not going to be sorted out by the

1074
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 4: House just declaring it. I was I was talking to

1075
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 4: a reporter up on the hill like this, it's all

1076
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:35,879
Speaker 4: this afternoon, They're going to vote on Israel not being

1077
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 4: an apartheid state.

1078
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 5: And of course, but it is like Nobo, the House

1079
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:42,359
Speaker 5: is saying it's not so.

1080
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 3: Well, okay.

1081
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,760
Speaker 6: So also then the Biden administration comes in because again

1082
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:49,760
Speaker 6: this is all happening as you mentioned, in the context

1083
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 6: of the speech that.

1084
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,959
Speaker 5: AOC Parazog meeting with Biden, right and Aos.

1085
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 3: It wasn't just AOC, it was other squad.

1086
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 4: Members Owlman to leave Omar and Omar and to leave Defense.

1087
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 4: Let's be clear, Israel does not allow Omar or to

1088
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 4: leave into the country. Yes, they're members of Congress elected

1089
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 4: by seven hundred thousand Americans each and they're not allowed

1090
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 4: to go into the country. So Israel has no right

1091
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 4: to complain if they don't feel like showing up for

1092
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 4: that speech.

1093
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 6: So we obviously disagree on this issue, and we've had

1094
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 6: this conversation many times. I think where Jaya Paul actually

1095
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 6: walks back the racist statement, as you pointed out, that's

1096
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 6: where her kind of reservations and where she pulls back

1097
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 6: is really interesting because to the point about Omar, for instance,

1098
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 6: when you use the word racist, when you invoke apartheid,

1099
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:42,640
Speaker 6: as you mentioned, it's sort of the rights that are given, taken, etc.

1100
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 3: In Israel are not.

1101
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:48,319
Speaker 6: Based on race, they're based on religion, and that it

1102
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:53,479
Speaker 6: has implications obviously for ethnicity and race in Israel and

1103
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 6: in Palestine obviously, but whether it's baked into the state

1104
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 6: itself racial policies, I think objectively no, And that's where

1105
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 6: I have a really hard time invoking apartheid. They're Palestinian

1106
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 6: Arabs that serve in the Israeli Parliament.

1107
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 3: There are plenty of.

1108
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 6: People in Israel with different backgrounds, racial backgrounds, and I

1109
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 6: think specifically invoking race, and then Giapaul realizing specifically invoking

1110
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 6: race and walking it back. I feel like I'm in

1111
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,879
Speaker 6: a weird position of agreeing with Giapaul at net Reads

1112
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 6: Nation as she's getting booed, but I actually think it's

1113
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 6: not so much I agree with her is that I

1114
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 6: think actually where she walks back is where the meat

1115
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 6: of that debate is. And it's so rare we start

1116
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 6: to talk about actually the center of the debate or

1117
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 6: the real thing at question, and actually that's what's happened

1118
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 6: in this conversation.

1119
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's probably some elements of it that get lost

1120
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 4: in translation between American culture and Israeli culture, in the

1121
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 4: sense that you know, race and racism is such an

1122
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:03,320
Speaker 4: has such a specific, constructed meaning in the United States.

1123
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 5: It's like the absolute worst thing you can say to anybody.

1124
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 4: You've got Tommy Tuberville being like, well, they're white nationalists,

1125
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 4: but don't.

1126
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 5: You dare call them racist.

1127
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,840
Speaker 3: They're Americans, like and you you unless.

1128
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 4: You're in the United States, And in that conversation you

1129
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 4: hear somebody like Tuberville say something like that, and they

1130
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 4: sound like a completely insane person. You mean, white nationalis

1131
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 4: isn't racism? And huh, where where are you coming up

1132
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 4: with this? But understanding that mindset, that that Cordin's off,

1133
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 4: that that one term from everything else, it helps to

1134
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 4: explain why it's like whoa whoa, whoa whoa whoa uh,

1135
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:42,839
Speaker 4: Because if you're a Palestinian living under this occupation, going

1136
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 4: through four checkpoints on your way to school, being taunted,

1137
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 4: you know, having having dogs nipping at you, the kind

1138
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 4: of academic debate between whether that you're a victim of

1139
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 4: racism or you're a victim of some kind of ethno nationalist,

1140
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 4: bigoted stew that is just producing this toxicity.

1141
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 5: It's upstream of it's upstream.

1142
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 4: It's like whatever it is, it just feels just awful to.

1143
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 5: Live to live under.

1144
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 4: And then you throw in the apartheid question and I

1145
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 4: asked a bunch of members of Congress yesterday on the

1146
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 4: hill whether they thought it was an apartheid state, and

1147
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 4: some of them would say, well, look, Amnesty International says

1148
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 4: it is, and they would just try to defer to

1149
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,240
Speaker 4: Amnesty International and other human rights groups including Betts Salam

1150
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 4: and Israeli organization that.

1151
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 5: Says yes, this is an apartheid state.

1152
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:31,440
Speaker 4: Others would say no, because an apartheid state requires permanent

1153
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 4: control over people within its borders. Now, control over some

1154
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 4: of these areas is going on seventy five years. But

1155
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 4: as long as they can kind of pretend that there's

1156
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 4: going to be some two state solution in the future,

1157
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 4: then this is a temporary occupation rather than an apartheid government.

1158
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 4: But if you have lived and died your entire life

1159
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 4: under this quote unquote temporary system, it's very hard for

1160
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 4: you to see the difference.

1161
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 3: So let's also we have clip from the White House.

1162
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,760
Speaker 3: This is D five. This is current Jean Pierre reacting.

1163
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:04,839
Speaker 18: Here the administration's new plan to counter anti Semitism. As

1164
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 18: you all know, this past May, we announce a very comprehensive,

1165
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,960
Speaker 18: once of a kind anti Semitism plan, which we think

1166
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 18: is incredibly important at this moment.

1167
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 3: I think they just solve the problem.

1168
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 5: Yes, they got an anti plan.

1169
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 3: Okay, it's good to know.

1170
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 5: She was pressed.

1171
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 4: She was pressed a lot in that in that briefing

1172
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 4: about these questions, and she didn't really want to because

1173
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 4: it's Democrats are in a difficult position. When when Jiapaul

1174
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 4: clarified her comments there walk them back, then she gets

1175
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 4: hit from the left saying why don't you stand by that? Yeah,

1176
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 4: like you have people saying why say it doesn't help

1177
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 4: us for you to say it in the first place

1178
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 4: if you're not going to stand by it. And so

1179
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 4: in the same vein the White House doesn't want to

1180
00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 4: associate itself with that specific comment, But they also don't

1181
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 4: want to condemn her too hard because then then they

1182
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 4: get hit for, you know, being weak on it, right,

1183
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 4: and so uh, And the idea that the House of

1184
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 4: Representatives is taking time out of its day for this

1185
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 4: three part resolution.

1186
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 3: Is just so perfect in the White House as well.

1187
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 5: And the White House is getting peppered about it.

1188
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, So we also have this tear sheet from the Intercept.

1189
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 6: You've had an article here about Pervez, one really really

1190
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 6: interesting article about a little bit of a case study here.

1191
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 5: This is fascinating. Yeah.

1192
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:25,440
Speaker 4: So if you've been following our coverage, you know that

1193
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 4: in the twenty twenty two cycle a PAC and its

1194
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 4: allied super pack or allied organization Democratic Majority for Israel,

1195
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 4: they spent collectively close to fifty million dollars in democratic

1196
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 4: primaries telling voters that these candidates were bad and not

1197
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 4: mentioning Israel Palestine, just focus grouping whatever they could about

1198
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 4: Donna Edwards. They spent seven million dollars against Donna Edwards

1199
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 4: in Prince George's County of Maryland, basically saying that she

1200
00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 4: was bad at constituent service, like never once talking about

1201
00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 4: the actual issue at hand, which is their difference is

1202
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 4: on the question of Israel Palestine. And so as a result,

1203
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 4: you had a lot of consultants advising their candidates keep

1204
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 4: your head down on this issue and also other progressive issues,

1205
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 4: because supporting the Green New Deal and Medicare for all

1206
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 4: was becoming a proxy for APAC DMFI for also being

1207
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 4: supportive of Palestinian rights.

1208
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 5: So not only would they back away.

1209
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 4: From supporting Palestinian rights, they would also back away from

1210
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 4: issues that they thought might get them in the crosshairs

1211
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 4: of APAC and DMFI, because that amount of money in

1212
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:35,520
Speaker 4: a primary is almost insurmountable when you're fit, like Donna

1213
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 4: Edwards was up by thirty points or so before they

1214
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 4: came in with six years, six or seven million dollars

1215
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 4: and knocked her out of that race. Summerlee. They came

1216
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 4: in the last three weeks and dropped millions. She got

1217
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 4: a million from outside from Justice Democrats and Working Families Party,

1218
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 4: and she respon she was able to respond, and she didn't.

1219
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 5: She wasn't on record in any way that.

1220
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 4: Could be kind of used against her in these attack ads,

1221
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:03,479
Speaker 4: and so she survived, but only by like four thousand points.

1222
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 4: They had another two weeks, maybe they end up beating

1223
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 4: even Summerly, who voted against this resolution. By the way,

1224
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,080
Speaker 4: So now you have an interesting development where this candidate

1225
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,479
Speaker 4: in Houston running against a pretty standard kind of center

1226
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 4: right New dem APAC endorsed Lizzie Fletcher in Houston elected

1227
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen. It almost seems to be baiting APEC

1228
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 4: and DMFI to get into the race because the district

1229
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 4: was redrawn by Republicans in Texas.

1230
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 5: It's now about seventy five.

1231
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 4: Percent non white, with a significant Muslim population, a lot

1232
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,760
Speaker 4: of pack that Houston has a big Pakistani population in particular,

1233
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:43,920
Speaker 4: but also other Muslim American populations. And so he's just

1234
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 4: straight up saying, you know, Jaya Paul was getting attacked unfairly,

1235
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,200
Speaker 4: and that you know he supports restricting aid to Israel,

1236
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 4: and that he basically ticks off every box that would

1237
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 4: get the attention of APAC and DMFI. In my sense

1238
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,120
Speaker 4: is that he feels like this is a chance to

1239
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 4: test the question of if you actually run toward this issue,

1240
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 4: rather than not mentioning it like most of the Cans

1241
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 4: would just try to not mention it. Yeah, you know

1242
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 4: what make this an issue. My opponent is being funded

1243
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 4: by outside money organized by APAC. That's bad for democray,

1244
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 4: that's bad for this district. I'm the anti APAC candidate,

1245
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 4: and in a low turnout primary, if you can get

1246
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:27,560
Speaker 4: people who that matters to to turn out, maybe he

1247
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:29,280
Speaker 4: can win. He's raised three hundred thousand dollars, so he's

1248
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 4: a credible candidate. So it'll be a real test case

1249
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 4: of whether or not you can actually run this way. Now,

1250
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 4: it's only the question is what kind of population do.

1251
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 5: You need for that to work?

1252
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 4: This is seventy five percent, like I said, not in white,

1253
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 4: so that narrows the places where you can kind of

1254
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 4: run this strategy. But Houston and its suburbs is definitely

1255
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 4: potentially one of.

1256
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 6: Them, absolutely absolutely, and it's testing a political strategy that

1257
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 6: has a lot bigger implications. It's funny because we talk

1258
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 6: about this a lot on the right, especially when it

1259
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,520
Speaker 6: comes to abortion, another one of those issues where every

1260
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 6: sort of establishment politician, like the equivalent of a Jaya Paul,

1261
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 6: feels like they're always between a rock and a hard place.

1262
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 3: You say one thing, you upset the base, you say

1263
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 3: another thing.

1264
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 6: It's just it's a nightmare for them, especially when you

1265
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 6: throw in their donors and their fundraisers, et cetera. But

1266
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:25,439
Speaker 6: there's this example of Ronald Reagan at an early Sea Pack.

1267
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 6: I want to say, this is a seapack phrase from

1268
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 6: maybe even the first Sea Pack. He talks about bold colors,

1269
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 6: not pale pastels.

1270
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 3: And especially on.

1271
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 6: The left, a lot of people remember Ronald Reagan as

1272
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:38,360
Speaker 6: being the sort of arch conservative, but he was a revolutionary.

1273
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 6: He completely remade the Republican Party. He was the tip

1274
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 6: of the spear of the remaking of the Conservative of

1275
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 6: creating the conservative move and ushering it into the Republican

1276
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 6: Party at least. And he really firmly believed that your

1277
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 6: best political strategy is actually, in a lot of cases,

1278
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 6: the moral political strategy of just saying here's what I believe,

1279
01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 6: here's why I think it's a problem in confronting things

1280
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 6: head on. The parallel to me really stood out when

1281
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 6: you were talking about I think this hit my inbox

1282
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 6: last night from your son with your sub stack.

1283
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 3: That just stood out to.

1284
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:09,320
Speaker 6: Me because I actually think it's something a lot of

1285
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:13,880
Speaker 6: especially centrist politicians, forget because they constantly have donors tripping

1286
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 6: in their ear. A lot of times, voters just want

1287
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 6: to believe and trust that you're being honest with them

1288
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:20,440
Speaker 6: and that they kind of know what you're going to do,

1289
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 6: and then they can make up their own judgment. And

1290
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:25,880
Speaker 6: that's not even like Hackney that really like people want

1291
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 6: to know that they can generally understand where you're coming from.

1292
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 3: And if you can pull that off.

1293
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,600
Speaker 6: It's not easy if you're a politician, because you want

1294
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 6: to lie about who's funding you and what you actually

1295
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 6: believe because you want to win.

1296
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 3: But sometimes even your most cynical.

1297
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 6: Attempt is not even your politically advantageous attempt.

1298
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,240
Speaker 4: All the the strategy is in some ways cynical, But

1299
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 4: to go to Reagan, it's an interesting case case and

1300
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 4: that you want as a politician, you want to elevate

1301
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 4: your least popular enemies so that you look kind of

1302
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 4: good in comparison to them. And Reagan did that all

1303
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 4: through forn you with the counterculture and the hip hooies,

1304
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 4: and you know, in the seventies the Republicans were calling

1305
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 4: it acid, amnesty and abortion and just trying to really

1306
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 4: tie the Democrats to this counterculture that people were, you

1307
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 4: know that the silent majority I would have been part

1308
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 4: of that counterculture. So I'm not you know, I'm not

1309
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 4: endorsing this this opinion, but beat up you would opinion. Yeah,

1310
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 4: you're hard hat on.

1311
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 5: Hitting me with a monkey wrench, no doubt.

1312
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 4: So he's trying he's kind of baiting attacks from the

1313
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 4: hippies so that he can be like, look, the hippies

1314
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 4: don't like me, I must be good, totally and so perfect.

1315
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 4: Aguan is saying, look, Apak wants to destroy me, therefore

1316
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:39,479
Speaker 4: I must be good.

1317
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 6: And the resolution we have this from D six did

1318
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 6: obviously you'll be shocked to learn pass.

1319
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 3: What's that four hundred and twelve to nine one abstention.

1320
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 4: Yeah you Betty McCollum from Minnesota abstained and you had nine,

1321
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 4: which is basically the squad minus. I think sometimes beca balance.

1322
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 4: Max Frost, Greg Get talked about is kind of squad

1323
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 4: ad Jason they voted, they voted yes, but otherwise it's

1324
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 4: here the people that you understand is like squad and

1325
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 4: squad ad Jason voting voting no.

1326
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 6: Well, speaking of the squad, let's talk about Charles Barkley.

1327
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:15,680
Speaker 3: How's that for a transition.

1328
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 6: Charles Barkley clearly the member, a member of the sports punditry.

1329
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 5: Squad, forgot about it.

1330
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 3: I don't know that's quite a stretch.

1331
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 6: Well, Charles Barkley was out in Lake Tahoe over the

1332
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 6: weekend and actually talked about bud light twice both Friday

1333
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 6: and Saturday nights. Charles Barkley was out in public weighing

1334
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 6: in the bud light controversy, which is really hilarious meaning

1335
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 6: and of itself, just that Charles Barkley is so fixated

1336
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 6: on what's.

1337
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 3: Happening in a bud light.

1338
01:05:44,920 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 6: Let's start by rolling the clip here.

1339
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 5: And I have a problem with that, okay, right.

1340
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:11,240
Speaker 6: Charles Beckley also said just he actually talked about how

1341
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 6: he's not afraid of cancel culture, and I think what

1342
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:15,919
Speaker 6: set a lot of people off is that he said,

1343
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:18,080
Speaker 6: all you rednecks or a holes who don't want to

1344
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 6: drink bud Light, if y'all, hey, y'all can't cancel me,

1345
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 6: I ain't worried about getting canceled because let me tell

1346
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 6: you something. If y'all fire me and give me all

1347
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 6: that money, I'm gonna be playing golf every day. As

1348
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 6: I last said, If you're gay, as I said last night,

1349
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 6: if you're gay, God blessed.

1350
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 3: If your trance, God blessed you. If your problem with.

1351
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:37,720
Speaker 6: Them, if you obviously the Dylan mulvaney controversy, which has

1352
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:41,520
Speaker 6: then turned into a boycott of bud Light that has

1353
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 6: at least in the short term, absolutely affected their bottom

1354
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 6: line and their business. It has ignited a conversation over

1355
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 6: ESG because there's this conversation, why would bud Light send

1356
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 6: the Influencer can their influencer kit to Dylan mlvaney, even

1357
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 6: though it was only like one or two beers. Whatever

1358
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:00,800
Speaker 6: was sent to Dylan mlvaney obviously a major trans influencer.

1359
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:02,160
Speaker 6: Why would they do that, Why would they want to

1360
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 6: upset their customers.

1361
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 3: Then you have the bud Light executives.

1362
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 6: Saying that their brand is too freddy and they're trying

1363
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 6: to get away from that.

1364
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 3: Why would they do that. A lot of people were.

1365
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 6: Saying, well, it's for the ESG score. It's because they

1366
01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 6: don't mind having a dip in business in the short run,

1367
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:18,680
Speaker 6: so long as they can seduce investors to put their

1368
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 6: money in bud Light based on getting a better score

1369
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 6: on the ESG like list, which is those scores actually

1370
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:28,000
Speaker 6: do really matter.

1371
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 4: So the conspiracy theory would be that they would deliberately

1372
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:35,000
Speaker 4: tank their stock by half so that they can get

1373
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 4: more investment in the company. It's like like that, that

1374
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 4: doesn't make any sense.

1375
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 3: Probably that they didn't anticipate.

1376
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:45,520
Speaker 5: That would be that much of a hit. I'm sure

1377
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 5: they did not yet.

1378
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 6: And that you have people who are operating without the

1379
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 6: knowledge of you know, the people really really high up.

1380
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 6: You have marketing executives who are so thoroughly steeped in,

1381
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 6: you know, their sort of ideology that they see all

1382
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:03,080
Speaker 6: of this as being a benefit for business and not

1383
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 6: to mention sort of a moral imperative. And so that's

1384
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 6: why bud Light as soon as this happened got rid

1385
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 6: of the woman. I believe she was first suspended and

1386
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 6: then canceled. Yeah, canceled, Yeah, canceled the woman.

1387
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:16,599
Speaker 3: Out who who went viral?

1388
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:17,960
Speaker 5: It was out canceling everybody.

1389
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:22,200
Speaker 6: But Barkley's point about you know, I think it's actually

1390
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 6: really interesting that he started by saying if you're gay,

1391
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:25,880
Speaker 6: bless you, and then if you're trans, bless you.

1392
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 3: Because this is.

1393
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:30,760
Speaker 6: A country that even among the like bud Light drinking demographic,

1394
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 6: there is high support for gay marriage and for like

1395
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 6: homosexuality in general. That happened over a really quick period

1396
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 6: of time. Support really built. It's specifically the Dylan mulvaney thing.

1397
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:45,280
Speaker 6: Like bud Light has been doing pride stuff for years,

1398
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 6: it was specifically Mulvany in twenty twenty three that set

1399
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:48,639
Speaker 6: this off.

1400
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 4: What surprised me about the whole thing is like, why

1401
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 4: don't why is the right now upset about corporations appealing

1402
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 4: to different subcs communities Like corporations have always done, Like

1403
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 4: you got people who were into hiking, you know, there's

1404
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 4: a hiking themed product that they make for them. You

1405
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 4: get like the ide, and it would be like, well,

1406
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 4: I don't like to hike, and so I'm so mad

1407
01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:20,680
Speaker 4: that they marketed their their beard of hikers that I'm

1408
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:24,479
Speaker 4: gonna boycott the thing. It seemed kind of snowflaky to me,

1409
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 4: rather than like what I would expect from a previous

1410
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 4: incarnation of the right, which is more of a live

1411
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 4: and let live, Like you don't like Dylan mulvaney, fine,

1412
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:36,840
Speaker 4: but to then never drink bud Light again is a

1413
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 4: strange reaction to me.

1414
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:39,400
Speaker 3: Especially as a conservative.

1415
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:42,719
Speaker 6: I've always found boycotts to be kind of snowflaky because

1416
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 6: as a conservative that you know, I didn't grow up

1417
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 6: in the fifties and sixties, so as somebody who grew

1418
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 6: up in the nineties and oughts, you don't have a

1419
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:52,320
Speaker 6: lot of options if you start boycotting things, and it's

1420
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:55,280
Speaker 6: always incredibly selective. And also I really like bud Light lime,

1421
01:09:55,439 --> 01:09:58,439
Speaker 6: so that was problematic from the get go. But on

1422
01:09:58,479 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 6: that note, although I am I'll take Miller, Let'm from

1423
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:04,759
Speaker 6: Milwaukee over but Light any day, the Saint Louis swill.

1424
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 6: But on that note, unless you put line in it,

1425
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 6: That's what's so interesting about the Barkley clip to me

1426
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:13,599
Speaker 6: is that it does channel they'll live and let live

1427
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 6: populist American sentiment in general. That's not just the American

1428
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:21,560
Speaker 6: kind of like if you had to say, what is

1429
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 6: the American attitude on politics, it's not just when it

1430
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 6: comes to social policies. Also, like when it comes to

1431
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 6: the size of government. It's really powerful when you talk

1432
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 6: to people about like gas stoves, when you talk to

1433
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:36,559
Speaker 6: people about the New York pizza ovens. I'm not saying

1434
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:39,559
Speaker 6: that this applies to you know, Americans approval of every

1435
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 6: policy down the line, but it is just that resonates

1436
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:47,160
Speaker 6: with a huge swath of the American public. But that's

1437
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:49,280
Speaker 6: where it comes into tension with the trans stuff, is

1438
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:50,599
Speaker 6: that it's like live and let live.

1439
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 3: But I say, away from my kids is how people

1440
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 3: on the right see it.

1441
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:55,719
Speaker 5: And but Dylan's an adult.

1442
01:10:56,040 --> 01:11:00,559
Speaker 6: But Dylan is an adult influencer. That is first of all,

1443
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,880
Speaker 6: that's big TikTok influencer was brought into the White House.

1444
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:06,679
Speaker 3: And I think people see dil Malvani as.

1445
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 6: Someone who is kind of contextualized by the cultural not

1446
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:14,559
Speaker 6: bud Light obviously because it's not for children, but by

1447
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:15,640
Speaker 6: the cultural establishment.

1448
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:16,679
Speaker 3: And like trans.

1449
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 6: Influencers in general as role models for children, and.

1450
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:20,639
Speaker 5: They pitched themselves.

1451
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 6: Rachel Levigne has made that pitch too, that like this

1452
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:26,759
Speaker 6: is an example for children to look.

1453
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:27,400
Speaker 3: Up to and follow.

1454
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:31,120
Speaker 4: But if that's how people feel, parents should just keep

1455
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:32,200
Speaker 4: the kids off, TikTok, right.

1456
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:35,200
Speaker 6: I mean I agree with that obviously, and people are

1457
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 6: doing it with Disney too, and so like Disney has

1458
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 6: gotten a taste of this. But I just think that's

1459
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:45,680
Speaker 6: interesting of the context or the tension is that there

1460
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:47,679
Speaker 6: is a really strong live and let live strain in America,

1461
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:50,320
Speaker 6: which is where I think you saw support for gay

1462
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 6: marriage skyrocket in the span of like ten years, and

1463
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:57,600
Speaker 6: you know, Obama goes from campaigning against it's a championing

1464
01:11:57,640 --> 01:11:59,720
Speaker 6: it in the matter of like four years, like two

1465
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:04,720
Speaker 6: thousand to twenty twelve. But then this particular issue was

1466
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:08,880
Speaker 6: like transgenderism, as you have the left push for policies that.

1467
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:10,720
Speaker 3: People feel encroach on their freedoms.

1468
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:13,800
Speaker 6: It's different than what people saw with gay marriage, which

1469
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:17,439
Speaker 6: was opening up freedom from their perspective, the perspective of

1470
01:12:17,479 --> 01:12:17,840
Speaker 6: your sort of.

1471
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:20,400
Speaker 3: Like average American. And that's where I think things are

1472
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:21,639
Speaker 3: fundamentally different for people.

1473
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 4: I do feel like there's a retrenching going on though,

1474
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:27,920
Speaker 4: even in the LGB side. Curious if you're seeing that too.

1475
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 4: We don't have it handy. But Mark pocan congressman from Wisconsin,

1476
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 4: openly gay member of the Appropriations Committee, delivered a really

1477
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 4: stearing five minutes speech that people can find it on

1478
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 4: my Twitter feed because Republicans in the committee blocked ear

1479
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:53,640
Speaker 4: marks that were associated with any LGBT groups. And his

1480
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:59,120
Speaker 4: point was, nobody here would remotely consider blocking an ear

1481
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:01,080
Speaker 4: mark because it was so stated with a civil rights

1482
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:04,599
Speaker 4: group like that, would that nobody would even today think

1483
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 4: to even suggest doing that and to block and he

1484
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:11,640
Speaker 4: and he talks about the way that the attack on

1485
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:15,800
Speaker 4: the trans movements has now has now as he said,

1486
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:19,200
Speaker 4: kind of affecting more broadly. Oh yeah, the broader move

1487
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 4: So I don't I don't think the gains are as

1488
01:13:21,320 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 4: locked in as as people would like.

1489
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 3: No, not at all.

1490
01:13:25,280 --> 01:13:27,800
Speaker 6: Andrew Selibyn talks about this a lot and has written

1491
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 6: about this a lot. That you know, if you are

1492
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:35,120
Speaker 6: LGB and you have enjoyed a lot of wins over

1493
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 6: the last couple of decades, and then you see the

1494
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:42,439
Speaker 6: t sort of being inextricably intertwined with the LGB cause,

1495
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 6: and the t is asking for things that even a

1496
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:48,080
Speaker 6: lot of people in the LGB camp are uncomfortable with

1497
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 6: and don't think our smart policy, let alone politically advantageous.

1498
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:53,720
Speaker 6: This is not going away anytime soon, and I think

1499
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:56,000
Speaker 6: specifically because of that, because it's going to start to

1500
01:13:56,040 --> 01:14:00,040
Speaker 6: cause friction with a cause that a lot of the

1501
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:03,559
Speaker 6: country supports, and that's going to be again, like, I

1502
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:06,320
Speaker 6: just don't think this is going anywhere anytime soon, despite

1503
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:07,679
Speaker 6: what maybe Charles Barkley wants.

1504
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 4: I guess well, Charles Barkley, I think understands that there

1505
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:13,800
Speaker 4: is a huge portion of the population who supports those

1506
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:16,680
Speaker 4: rights and will support him for standing up for it,

1507
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 4: particularly his show's going to be on CNN, right.

1508
01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:21,080
Speaker 6: I think he does have a show with Gale king

1509
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:23,800
Speaker 6: Right debuting on CNN, right, So I think, yeah, he

1510
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 6: sees that, you know, he's speaking to you know, millions

1511
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:29,400
Speaker 6: of people who are going to see that and agree

1512
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:29,720
Speaker 6: with him and.

1513
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:32,040
Speaker 4: Be like, thank you for standing up for us, King Charles.

1514
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:34,400
Speaker 6: I think the American public is very much on board

1515
01:14:34,439 --> 01:14:36,840
Speaker 6: with the King Charles point when it comes to live

1516
01:14:36,880 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 6: and let live, Like if your trans blessed you. I

1517
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 6: think that's a really easy pitch to make. I think,

1518
01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:44,879
Speaker 6: especially for adults. I think when there are policies involved

1519
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:49,640
Speaker 6: that start that people feel are on offense, you know,

1520
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:53,719
Speaker 6: where they're aggressive, the policy is the aggressor as opposed

1521
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:56,439
Speaker 6: to you know, opening things up or whatever it is,

1522
01:14:57,080 --> 01:14:59,880
Speaker 6: and children are involved. I think that's really where the

1523
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:04,200
Speaker 6: King Charles line will not be as politically palatable.

1524
01:15:04,479 --> 01:15:06,200
Speaker 5: King Charles was my hero growing up.

1525
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 3: Really, I didn't know that.

1526
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:08,880
Speaker 5: Read his memoir like three times.

1527
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:09,880
Speaker 3: It should be on your shelf.

1528
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 4: I lost it because, I mean it's so tattered. Yeah, yeah,

1529
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 4: I got his I saw him at a Phillies game once.

1530
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:17,440
Speaker 4: I didn't know that any of this, got his autograph.

1531
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 3: Was he nice?

1532
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:19,880
Speaker 5: He was very nice? It was great.

1533
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:21,479
Speaker 3: I'm sure he was. I can see that.

1534
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 6: Ryan, you're gonna be talking about us, so I'm gonna

1535
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:29,040
Speaker 6: be talking about the Jason el Dean video controversy.

1536
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:32,280
Speaker 3: I know you're huge Jason Aldean. Kidding on, have you

1537
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 3: heard of Jason el Ding?

1538
01:15:33,360 --> 01:15:35,400
Speaker 5: Okay for to learn about this person?

1539
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 6: Right before that, you're talking to us about marjor Taylor Green.

1540
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:40,400
Speaker 3: What do you got for us today?

1541
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:46,919
Speaker 4: Incredible development in the presidential campaign, an endorsement by Marjorie

1542
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:50,759
Speaker 4: Taylor Green of the Biden agenda the greatest political ad

1543
01:15:52,120 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 4: definitely of this cycle, maybe of the last ten cycles.

1544
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:56,240
Speaker 5: Let's roll this one.

1545
01:15:56,479 --> 01:16:01,160
Speaker 1: Joe Biden had the largest public investment in social, infrastructure

1546
01:16:01,160 --> 01:16:06,160
Speaker 1: and environmental programs that is actually finishing what FDR started,

1547
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:10,800
Speaker 1: that LBJ expanded on, and Joe Biden is attempting to

1548
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:21,000
Speaker 1: complete programs to address education, medical care, urban problems, rural poverty, transportation, Medicare, Medicaid,

1549
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:24,160
Speaker 1: labor unions, and he still is working on it.

1550
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:27,599
Speaker 5: Okay.

1551
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 4: When I first saw her speech at which was at

1552
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:34,599
Speaker 4: the point, yeah, the turning point in USA thing, I wondered,

1553
01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 4: I was like, are they going to turn this into

1554
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:40,000
Speaker 4: a thirty second campaign had because I would if I

1555
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 4: were them, And sure enough they did. And this is

1556
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:45,200
Speaker 4: not a deep fake, This is not AI produced. This

1557
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:48,479
Speaker 4: was the speech that Marjorie Taylor Green gave. If there

1558
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:51,800
Speaker 4: was any deception at all, it would be in where

1559
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 4: they ended it, because of course she doesn't end it

1560
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:56,640
Speaker 4: right there. She kind of is upset about what she

1561
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:59,240
Speaker 4: says is the fallout of some of some of that

1562
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:04,320
Speaker 4: FDR LBJ Biden agenda. So just for this sake of

1563
01:17:04,360 --> 01:17:07,840
Speaker 4: honesty and transparency. Like here is kind of the rest

1564
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:09,880
Speaker 4: of what MTG said.

1565
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:15,360
Speaker 1: That is actually finishing what FDR started that LBJ expanded on,

1566
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:22,040
Speaker 1: and Joe Biden is attempting to complete socialism. Meanwhile, we

1567
01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:26,320
Speaker 1: are now thirty two trillion dollars in debt, with record

1568
01:17:26,360 --> 01:17:31,120
Speaker 1: high homelessness, forty year record inflation. We're losing the US

1569
01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:36,040
Speaker 1: dollar as the number one world currency. We're losing our freedoms.

1570
01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:37,559
Speaker 3: Our government is.

1571
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:43,679
Speaker 1: One big, fat, bloated machine, and it's killing the American dream.

1572
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:46,840
Speaker 4: So a bunch of technocratic stuff about the budget and

1573
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:51,799
Speaker 4: it's killing the American dream, and it's socialism. Bernie Sanders

1574
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:53,800
Speaker 4: gave kind of the same speech during the twenty twenty

1575
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:56,880
Speaker 4: campaign where he said, you guys say that I'm a socialist,

1576
01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:59,200
Speaker 4: I call myself a democratic socialist. Let me tell you

1577
01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:02,960
Speaker 4: what I mean by democratic socialism, and he couched in

1578
01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:05,519
Speaker 4: the spirit of FDR and the legacy of FDRs.

1579
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:07,520
Speaker 5: I'm an FDR democrat.

1580
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:10,200
Speaker 4: Biden, when he was really feeling his oats in early

1581
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:12,759
Speaker 4: twenty twenty one, said the same thing that he wanted

1582
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 4: to be, you know, wanted to be another FDR, and

1583
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:17,360
Speaker 4: that's when he really pushed forward with this like really

1584
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:20,840
Speaker 4: aggressive kind of agenda that was then whittled away by Joe.

1585
01:18:20,760 --> 01:18:22,160
Speaker 5: Manchin Kirsten Cinema.

1586
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:26,479
Speaker 4: But if you want to wrap that all in socialism, Okay, fine,

1587
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:27,920
Speaker 4: it's government spending.

1588
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:29,200
Speaker 5: Fine call it socialism.

1589
01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:35,400
Speaker 4: I did, like, what is Marjorie Taylor Green doing here?

1590
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:39,599
Speaker 4: Like just reading off what could what literally was turned

1591
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:41,960
Speaker 4: into a campaign ad for Joe Biden.

1592
01:18:42,439 --> 01:18:43,040
Speaker 3: I think it's.

1593
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:51,599
Speaker 6: Still a blind spot for the right, how favored well,

1594
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:55,439
Speaker 6: speaking of the developing populist Republican mind. Actually speaking of Georgia,

1595
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:58,479
Speaker 6: another Georgian we're going to talk about Jason al Dean,

1596
01:18:59,120 --> 01:19:01,120
Speaker 6: who Ryan said he is excited.

1597
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:02,679
Speaker 3: To learn about who this person is.

1598
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:05,920
Speaker 6: Country fans know Jason eld and he's a very very

1599
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:09,280
Speaker 6: popular and has been over this guy. Yeah, he's like

1600
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:11,120
Speaker 6: one of the kings of pop country and has been

1601
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:14,120
Speaker 6: a mainstay for a very long time. He had a

1602
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:18,479
Speaker 6: video called Try That in a Small Town, very politically charged.

1603
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:20,280
Speaker 6: It's for his new single, which I think was actually

1604
01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:23,320
Speaker 6: released in May. The video itself was released pretty recently

1605
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:25,439
Speaker 6: within I think within the last week, but it was

1606
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:29,720
Speaker 6: pulled as of today. It was pulled by CMT, and

1607
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:33,360
Speaker 6: CMT hasn't quite waded into again, this is just as

1608
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:36,880
Speaker 6: of we're taping. They haven't answered media comment request about

1609
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:39,640
Speaker 6: why they did that, but the video has gotten a

1610
01:19:39,720 --> 01:19:43,160
Speaker 6: lot of criticism from the left. We can put the

1611
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:44,439
Speaker 6: first element up on the screen.

1612
01:19:44,479 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 9: This is just.

1613
01:19:45,320 --> 01:19:48,439
Speaker 3: CMT yanked the video. Again.

1614
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:51,560
Speaker 6: They haven't said exactly why they did that, but Billboard

1615
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:55,800
Speaker 6: was the first to report it. Then all of this conversation,

1616
01:19:55,880 --> 01:19:58,400
Speaker 6: I think started bubbling more and more to the surface.

1617
01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:01,640
Speaker 6: The right started to really pay at time to the

1618
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 6: blowback that al Dean had been getting. I think the

1619
01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:07,680
Speaker 6: reight had just been kind of enjoying the video and

1620
01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 6: not paying attention to the people who were criticizing it.

1621
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:13,559
Speaker 6: Just so you can get a little taste of what

1622
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:14,800
Speaker 6: that video is like.

1623
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:16,800
Speaker 3: Here's a very short clip o.

1624
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:19,479
Speaker 9: God on the owner of a liquor store.

1625
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:25,000
Speaker 6: Think it's a food so carjacking, pull a gun on

1626
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:28,000
Speaker 6: an owner of a liquor store. These are things that,

1627
01:20:28,080 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 6: as red meat as they sound, are ripped from headlines here.

1628
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:31,640
Speaker 3: In Washington, d C.

1629
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:34,480
Speaker 6: Not too long ago, a man who was a translator

1630
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:39,040
Speaker 6: in Afghanistan was gunned down during his shift driving.

1631
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 3: I think he was a lyft driver at night.

1632
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 6: He his wife told him, you know, didn't want him

1633
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:46,439
Speaker 6: to go out, but he said he had to make money.

1634
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:49,920
Speaker 6: And he's clearly was a hard working man was gunned

1635
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:52,040
Speaker 6: down during his shift for absolutely no.

1636
01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:54,280
Speaker 3: Reason, totally senseless violence.

1637
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:56,719
Speaker 6: And so again I get that that sounds red meat,

1638
01:20:56,800 --> 01:20:59,960
Speaker 6: like a lot of it, but it's also pretty ripped

1639
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:03,080
Speaker 6: from the headlines. And I guarantee you resonates with a

1640
01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:05,599
Speaker 6: whole lot of people, even if it's not people in

1641
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,800
Speaker 6: my immediate era area here in Washington, d C. And actually,

1642
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:10,800
Speaker 6: a couple of weeks back, Crystal and I got into

1643
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:14,759
Speaker 6: a conversation about country music and especially pop country music.

1644
01:21:15,240 --> 01:21:17,720
Speaker 6: I said something that I got some tweets about. It

1645
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:20,880
Speaker 6: was kind of interesting that I really am annoyed by

1646
01:21:21,160 --> 01:21:24,640
Speaker 6: how country music sometimes devolves into redneck mad libs. Like

1647
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:26,360
Speaker 6: if you grew up in a smaller city and a

1648
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:28,719
Speaker 6: file over state, you know, a lot of the stuff

1649
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 6: is just coastal liberals who are getting rich off of

1650
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:32,960
Speaker 6: dumb stereotypes because it.

1651
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:34,240
Speaker 3: Doesn't feel remotely authentic.

1652
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:38,600
Speaker 6: And it's like when Hollywood does their like real America depictions,

1653
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:41,479
Speaker 6: they're just sort of like crudely attempting to paint a

1654
01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:44,840
Speaker 6: picture of what they think, quote real America looks like,

1655
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 6: and it's generally laughable. And you get that into in

1656
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:51,519
Speaker 6: country music a lot, even though it's supposed to be

1657
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:54,559
Speaker 6: like the one place where it speaks to real people,

1658
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:56,200
Speaker 6: and I think to some extent it still does that,

1659
01:21:56,439 --> 01:21:59,400
Speaker 6: but sometimes you do just get redneck mad libs. And

1660
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:02,720
Speaker 6: what's really unfortunate about that happening in country music is

1661
01:22:02,720 --> 01:22:07,479
Speaker 6: that you're undercutting one of America's coolest artistic exports. And

1662
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:09,280
Speaker 6: people don't think of country music that way, but it

1663
01:22:09,320 --> 01:22:12,959
Speaker 6: really is. It developed with musical traditions from West Africa,

1664
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:16,599
Speaker 6: from Ireland, from Italy, blended all of these things together

1665
01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:19,599
Speaker 6: and even more than that in a very very very

1666
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:22,479
Speaker 6: American way. And by the way, the story of country

1667
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:25,400
Speaker 6: music not all positive. Some very American but very bad

1668
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:27,639
Speaker 6: parts of that story and some very American and very.

1669
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:28,679
Speaker 3: Good parts of that story.

1670
01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:30,280
Speaker 6: But you know, at the end of the day, pop

1671
01:22:30,360 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 6: music is always going to be pop music, whether it's

1672
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:35,960
Speaker 6: country music, whether it's rap, any of that. Some of

1673
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:38,360
Speaker 6: it is good, but when you get into that redneck

1674
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 6: mad lib territory where you have these people in like

1675
01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:44,280
Speaker 6: air conditioned boardrooms, or are just throwing words like tractor

1676
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:46,920
Speaker 6: and beer and truck together.

1677
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 3: It's just sucking the soul out of one of this.

1678
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:52,879
Speaker 6: Actually, I would say like one of the most valuable

1679
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:57,120
Speaker 6: American artistic traditions. So the Aldine video is getting absolutely

1680
01:22:57,200 --> 01:23:00,320
Speaker 6: torched by the left on social media.

1681
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:01,640
Speaker 3: I'm trying to find some of the quotes here.

1682
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 6: This is a police reform activist who said, just look

1683
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:08,800
Speaker 6: at the lyrics and you see that beyond this being

1684
01:23:08,840 --> 01:23:12,160
Speaker 6: so insentitive to the small folk town, small town folks

1685
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:14,479
Speaker 6: dying from gun violence, it's a reference to mass shootings

1686
01:23:14,479 --> 01:23:17,439
Speaker 6: in places like Uvaldi. It is also just a racist

1687
01:23:17,439 --> 01:23:20,240
Speaker 6: dog whistle invoking quote urban crimes that we better not

1688
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:23,040
Speaker 6: do and quote his sundown quote town.

1689
01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:25,880
Speaker 3: This is for the quote what about Chicago crowd.

1690
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:29,479
Speaker 6: And then you have a podcast host Jim Stewartson who said,

1691
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:31,680
Speaker 6: this is one of the most dangerous, irresponsible videos from

1692
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:34,360
Speaker 6: a mainstream artist I have ever seen. Jason Alden is

1693
01:23:34,360 --> 01:23:40,720
Speaker 6: openly radicalizing his fans into white nationalists, vigilante violence, and yeah,

1694
01:23:40,720 --> 01:23:46,400
Speaker 6: there's the Interestingly, this is a quote from Mississippi Free

1695
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:49,880
Speaker 6: Press news editor Ashton Pittman, who said, Jason Aldean shot

1696
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:51,960
Speaker 6: this at the site where a white lynch mob strung

1697
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:54,759
Speaker 6: Henry Chote up at the Moray County Courthouse in Columbia, Tennessee,

1698
01:23:54,800 --> 01:23:56,479
Speaker 6: after dragging his body through the streets with a car

1699
01:23:56,520 --> 01:23:58,680
Speaker 6: in nineteen twenty seven. That's why al Dean chose to

1700
01:23:58,680 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 6: sing about murdering people who don't respect the police. Okay,

1701
01:24:02,080 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 6: so al Dean responded to all of this. He goes

1702
01:24:05,280 --> 01:24:08,200
Speaker 6: on Instagram and says, quote, I've been accused of releasing

1703
01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:10,400
Speaker 6: a pro lynching song, a song that has been out

1704
01:24:10,439 --> 01:24:12,960
Speaker 6: since May and was subject to the comparison that I

1705
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:16,400
Speaker 6: direct quote was not too pleased with the nationwide BLM protests.

1706
01:24:16,600 --> 01:24:20,599
Speaker 6: These references are not only meritless, but dangerous, he said.

1707
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:23,120
Speaker 6: No one, including me, wants to continue to see sense

1708
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:24,759
Speaker 6: those headlines or families ripped apart.

1709
01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:26,120
Speaker 3: Try that in a small town.

1710
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:28,040
Speaker 6: For me, refers to the feeling of a community that

1711
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:30,479
Speaker 6: I had growing up, where we took care of our neighbors,

1712
01:24:30,479 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 6: regardless of differences or background or belief. That to me

1713
01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:41,479
Speaker 6: is fascinating, because he said, you'll notice something in the

1714
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:45,679
Speaker 6: past tense again. Just to get this up to speed,

1715
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:47,639
Speaker 6: or just to get this in there again, he said,

1716
01:24:47,640 --> 01:24:49,840
Speaker 6: it refers to the feeling of a community that I

1717
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:52,600
Speaker 6: had growing up, that I had growing up, where we

1718
01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:56,160
Speaker 6: took care of our neighbors regardless of regardless of differences

1719
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 6: of background or belief. Again, that is past tense, and

1720
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:02,360
Speaker 6: it's probably true that you'll have a harder time car

1721
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:08,040
Speaker 6: jacking someone in small town Virginia than you would here

1722
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:09,120
Speaker 6: in Washington.

1723
01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:08,960
Speaker 3: D C.

1724
01:25:09,240 --> 01:25:13,840
Speaker 6: But small towns are suffering as much and if not

1725
01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:18,040
Speaker 6: more in some cases than the bluest cities in other ways.

1726
01:25:18,439 --> 01:25:21,200
Speaker 6: So like the seven thousand persons saying that I grew

1727
01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:23,840
Speaker 6: up in Wisconsin, some of these places are thriving because

1728
01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:28,280
Speaker 6: social capital remains really high. Others, though, where NAFTA and

1729
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:30,920
Speaker 6: WTO absolutely decimated.

1730
01:25:30,360 --> 01:25:32,920
Speaker 3: Their workforces are not at all what they used to be.

1731
01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:36,080
Speaker 6: People are falling through the safety net drug and crime.

1732
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:40,920
Speaker 6: Drugs and crime are everywhere. Social scientists have looked at

1733
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:44,439
Speaker 6: the correlation between the social capital in some of these

1734
01:25:44,479 --> 01:25:48,080
Speaker 6: really rural areas and drugs and duds of despair.

1735
01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:49,800
Speaker 3: This is not a secret at all.

1736
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:54,479
Speaker 6: These patterns are crystal clear, and that's why people like

1737
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:57,840
Speaker 6: al Dean and others from a lot of places that

1738
01:25:57,880 --> 01:26:00,839
Speaker 6: have been hit this way, like Donald Trump them express

1739
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:05,080
Speaker 6: that political sort of angst by liking Bernie Sanders, but

1740
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:08,240
Speaker 6: Donald Trump. Why does someone like Jason Aldean, who's a

1741
01:26:08,240 --> 01:26:11,640
Speaker 6: Trump supporter, flock to him? Because nobody else is comfortable

1742
01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:15,320
Speaker 6: saying things that al Din is saying in that song, which,

1743
01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:17,960
Speaker 6: by the way, are closer to the truth than a

1744
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:21,439
Speaker 6: lot of what his critics are saying right now, and

1745
01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:22,960
Speaker 6: he was immediately called racist.

1746
01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:23,320
Speaker 9: Again.

1747
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:25,479
Speaker 6: This is one of those things that just pushes people

1748
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:29,439
Speaker 6: to Donald Trump. There's a really good song by Mark Aurelli,

1749
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:31,280
Speaker 6: and I think it actually might be getting covered on

1750
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:33,840
Speaker 6: the new Grace Potter record, Lovely Vermont Native.

1751
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:35,320
Speaker 3: I love this song.

1752
01:26:35,479 --> 01:26:39,280
Speaker 6: It's called Rose Colored Rearview because in it, the singer

1753
01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:42,799
Speaker 6: remembers better times than a small town, but then wonders

1754
01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:45,640
Speaker 6: whether that's just kind of the sheen of nostalgia. And

1755
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:47,280
Speaker 6: I think that's a thought process a lot of people

1756
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:49,479
Speaker 6: are going through right now. So the lyrics are there

1757
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:52,080
Speaker 6: was a time this town felt like family. I could

1758
01:26:52,160 --> 01:26:54,559
Speaker 6: ride my bike down any street and somebody always knew

1759
01:26:54,560 --> 01:26:56,320
Speaker 6: my name. There was a time before the meal pulled

1760
01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:58,599
Speaker 6: out and the pills moved in, when we didn't need

1761
01:26:58,600 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 6: no medicine just to take away the pain.

1762
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:02,760
Speaker 3: Was there a time or was it only in my mind.

1763
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:05,120
Speaker 6: When everything seemed simpler and we all sat down for

1764
01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:07,320
Speaker 6: dinner every night? Or am I just looking through this

1765
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:10,080
Speaker 6: rose colored rear view. The answer is yes, in a

1766
01:27:10,120 --> 01:27:12,639
Speaker 6: whole lot of places, there was a time. And that's

1767
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:15,600
Speaker 6: where that Al Densweng is fascinating. It's not just the

1768
01:27:15,640 --> 01:27:19,679
Speaker 6: cities versus Mayberry anymore. The cities are burning and while

1769
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:24,120
Speaker 6: Mayberry might not physically be on fire, it's burning up too.

1770
01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:30,640
Speaker 6: And Ryan, that to me is really obviously sad, but

1771
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:37,559
Speaker 6: also there is this I think ten Well, the show

1772
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:40,599
Speaker 6: is kind of over, but also not quite over, because

1773
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:43,080
Speaker 6: we have an interview with Christopher Ruffo offered the new

1774
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:46,679
Speaker 6: book America's Cultural Revolution coming up, and I've both read

1775
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:47,400
Speaker 6: the book and we're.

1776
01:27:47,240 --> 01:27:48,200
Speaker 3: Really excited about it.

1777
01:27:48,200 --> 01:27:51,639
Speaker 6: It is going to be posted after the full show.

1778
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:54,360
Speaker 6: We've got, you know, twenty to thirty minutes with Rufo

1779
01:27:54,479 --> 01:27:56,360
Speaker 6: coming up. And so what we want to do is

1780
01:27:56,400 --> 01:28:01,640
Speaker 6: get the show out to subscribers so that we are all.

1781
01:28:01,600 --> 01:28:04,560
Speaker 5: Up to date on the breaking deal with our subscribers.

1782
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:06,759
Speaker 4: We're not going to break that deal, that's right, that's show.

1783
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:09,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, So we want to get the full show out

1784
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:11,840
Speaker 6: and then we're going to get that RUFO interview up

1785
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:14,240
Speaker 6: a little bit later, so basically, stay tuned for that.

1786
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:17,080
Speaker 3: But thank you for watching the show. We appreciate it.

1787
01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:17,800
Speaker 3: We'll of course be.

1788
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:21,280
Speaker 6: Back next Wednesday with more counterpoints, and back really soon.

1789
01:28:21,120 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 3: With the RUFO interview.

1790
01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:23,120
Speaker 5: There you go, see you soon.

1791
01:28:23,240 --> 01:29:18,400
Speaker 9: Stay tuned.

1792
01:29:11,080 --> 01:32:27,639
Speaker 16: Shot sho sh sh sh shottish bish