WEBVTT - 4: Under the Spotlight 0:00:06.240 --> 0:00:14.080 Novel. May I see a show of hands? How many 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:17.560 people in this room have ever dreamt of wearing spandex? 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:22.560 One day around two thousand and ten, a guy named 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.960 Peter Tangan was flipping through Rolling Stone magazine when an 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:29.680 article caught his eye. It was called the Legend of 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:32.919 Master Legend. I found out from this article that there 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:36.000 were more than a hundred people like minded costumed activists 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:40.280 that were in the country. You guys, there's really superheroes. 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:46.200 There's really superheroes. How exciting is this? Peter Tangan isn't 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.440 your average comic book fan. He's a photographer and you've 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.600 probably seen his work. One of his main gigs is 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:56.960 taking promo shots of Hollywood superheroes. He shot Christian Bail 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:00.800 for the Batman Begins poster, Chris Hemsworth as Door, and 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:04.000 also Will Ferrell as Elf. He likes to mix it up, 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:07.760 but sometimes living in the world of celebrities can feel 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.840 a little fake, and at a certain point in his career, 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:15.240 Peter longed to shoot something more real, and this article 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.760 about real life superheroes gave him an idea. In a 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:21.760 Ted talk he did in two thousand and fifteen, he 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:24.640 remembers the moment, and it hits me right then and there, 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.000 I say, I gotta figure out a way to make 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:34.039 Hollywood quality movie posters out of these guys. So Peter 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:36.880 started reaching out to the real life superheroes. He got 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:39.560 to know their work and shot them in glossy, big 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:43.480 budget photos where they posed with steely expressions against a 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:47.840 city backdrop. Inevitably, he decided to reach out to Phoenix Jones, 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:52.200 the greatest superhero of them all. Not long after, Phoenix 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:54.600 got a Facebook message from Peter and the two of 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:56.960 them talked on the phone, but it didn't go well. 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.800 Peter had met a lot of real life superheroes by 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:03.240 this point, and he was skeptical Phoenix's crime fighting approach. 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:05.280 And he's like, what you're doing is kind of dangerous 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:08.359 and actually maybe empathetical to the movement. You might want 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.160 to like calm yourself down, you know. Plus, I highly 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.560 doubt you're actually stopping as many crimes as you think. 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:15.760 He's like, I've seen it, maybe ten crimes that have 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:19.519 been stopped by realized superheroes maybe. And I was like, oh, okay, 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:21.600 well we're not friends. I don't like you. I'm not 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:24.040 going to talk to you again. And go fund yourself. 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:27.359 It's a wonder why none of Phoenix's old superhero buddies 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:32.079 or friends with him anymore. Anyway, after this initial call, 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:35.919 five months went by, and then Peter called Phoenix again, 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.560 and according to Phoenix, this time he was full of 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:40.799 praise you called me. He says, look, you need to 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.320 come to California. I need to take photos and videos 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:47.800 and shoot you. Allegedly, Peter told Phoenix that he should 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:51.280 sit down with the lesser real life superhero community and 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.079 tell them it was time to hang up their costumes. 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:57.320 You're trying to like bring them a place they should 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.560 not go. You can go there if you want to, 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:01.840 but he shouldn't, and you need to make that really 0:03:01.880 --> 0:03:05.520 clear because they'll all get killed. And then he bought 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:06.919 me a plane ticket. I left two days later and 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:08.760 I flew down to California. Be Peter. The thing about 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.480 Peter Tangan is that he's a big Hollywood guy and 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.120 he lives in a big Hollywood house in the hills. 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:16.440 He lives in the giant glass house. And I have 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.000 a secret identity. So I wore my mask every single 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:23.120 day all day. It was terrible. It's so ridiculous. It 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.400 was in Vandis, California, and this glass house on the 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.120 side of a creaking cliff looks like the Iron Man House. 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.880 Literally every wall is a wucking window, Like, why would 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:33.799 you invite a superhero a secret identity to a place 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.400 where every wall is a bucking window. It was trash. 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.000 I slept in my mask. It was just horrible. As 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.280 horrible as it was, it actually turned out to be 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:45.320 a major turning point in Phoenix Jones life. Up until then, 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:48.600 he and his team had attracted some media coverage, but 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.840 according to Phoenix, he hadn't actively sought it out, and 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:53.280 every time media would call me, I be like, no, 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:55.120 I don't want to talk to you. And he was like, 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:56.800 no one knows what you're doing, who you are, what 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:58.280 you stand for me. He's like, and everyone wants to 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:00.720 talk to you, so just go out tell him what 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:02.560 you mean, what you plan on doing. No one's gonna 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:04.720 get mad at you for telling what you're doing. He's like, 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:06.880 you're doing the dangerous work anyway, you might as well 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:13.720 protect yourself. Phoenix agreed to the photo shoot. In the photos, 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:17.200 he stands in a rain soaked street, fully costumed and 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.240 glares down at the camera. He'd look a lot like 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.080 Batman if it weren't for the gold chevron across his chest, 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:33.239 which glows with an unearthly yellow light. When the pictures 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:37.400 were released, Peter's phone started ringing off the hook. Phoenix 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:41.200 wasn't just a local news curiosity anymore. People around the 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.720 country wanted to know who this mysterious crime fighter was. 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:48.840 Peter fielded so many calls for Phoenix that he ended 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.920 up becoming his semi official spokesperson. Peter is actually how 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:54.680 I got in touch with Phoenix in the first place, 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:59.599 and Phoenix was going to need his pr rep. The 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:02.559 photo shoot catapulted him to a new level of fame. 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.599 Phoenix's knack for grabbing people's attention is one of his 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:14.920 greatest assets, but it's also maybe his greatest weakness. From 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:18.159 the team's at Novel and I Heart Radio, This is 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:39.680 the Superhero Complex, Episode four, Under the Spotlight. After the 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:43.400 Peter Tangan photo shoot, journalists wanted to fly to Seattle 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:47.240 and meet the famous Phoenix Jones. One of those journalists 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:51.279 was the writer and broadcaster John Ronson. John and Phoenix 0:05:51.360 --> 0:05:53.359 hooked up for a piece that John was writing for 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.919 g Q. John had flown over from England, and according 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.919 to Phoenix, the idea had been to try and uncover 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.719 a sex trafficking ring, but when they finally tracked down 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:07.440 some sex workers, things didn't go as planned. We couldn't 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.800 find anything right because none of them said they were trafficked, 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.600 which was a giant bust. And so instead I went 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:14.640 on patrol with John Ronson and took down thirty armed 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:17.599 crack dealers, you know, by myself. Phoenix and some of 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.000 the other members of the rain City Crew had taken 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:25.400 John on a patrol of the city. Instead, nothing was happening. 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:30.000 He couldn't find any crimes to thwart, and so he 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:34.000 pulled out the big guns. That's John. He told me 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.599 that they headed to the Belltown neighborhood. It was a 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:39.680 sketchy pass of town tact three in the morning. There 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:43.000 was about five or six different groups of track dealers 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:47.840 on different street corners, and farious bires going between them. 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.599 Phoenix described a fairly intimidating scene. See, I was an 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.120 open cary state. Dudes walk around their guns out, They 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:56.040 stand on the corner right and when people come out 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:57.839 of the club, they strong armed them for money to 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:01.279 get their car out of parking. Lots thirty dudes with 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.640 open carried weapons in a parking lot. This was clearly 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:08.240 a dangerous situation, but John wasn't sure that the superhero's 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:14.280 presence made things safer. The crack dealers all unified in saying, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.200 what the fuck do you think you're doing here with 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:21.280 your superhero outfits? And one of them said this may 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.840 be funning games for you, but this isn't funny games 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.520 for us. This is how we feed our families. And 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:28.640 then one of them said, if you don't get off 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.600 our block, we're going to show you what the Bernard does. 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:34.520 And they had a point like what the funk were 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:37.760 we doing trying to break the back player whose business 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.320 was of ours? I mean, I'm saying ours? What I 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.480 really made his phoenix is the way Phoenix tells it. 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.760 This was a heroic standoff. I look a ghost and 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:48.720 I said, ghost man, there's a good chance we're gonna 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.120 die here, bro, are you? Are you good? Ghost is 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.040 like yep? And I looked at Jack and Jack's like, 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:56.720 you're stupid, Jones. This is like a movie, you know. 0:07:56.920 --> 0:07:59.200 I looked at a caballero and Cabby's like, oh, I 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:00.720 already called the car man, He's like, I hope they 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:02.400 don't should have the cops get you. I hadn't call 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:05.200 the cops, but John told me the danger really did 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:07.360 seem genuine. They came back to us and they said, 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:12.200 you are stupid motherfucker's Do you know that? Do you 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:16.160 know that you were stupid? Motherfucker's We should shoot you. 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:18.640 And I've got to say at this point, I was terrified. 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:22.360 They showed us the shape of a gun and the sweatpants. 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.640 They were clearly coming up with a justification to commit 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:31.280 an active violence against Phoenix. And they said, we should 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.920 shoot you, but if you refuse to leave, I guess 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.200 we're going to have to go home. And they did. 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:43.960 They all went home, and so Phoenix one. When Phoenix 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.600 told me the story, he didn't paint John in a 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:50.600 very favorable light. John Ronson hailed a cab and they 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:52.520 got in the cab and told the cab to wait 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.040 and was hiding in the cab and then he wanted 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:56.520 to come back up control with us and we're like, no, 0:08:56.679 --> 0:09:00.160 you're hit in the cab. Bro like you're crazy, Like 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:01.720 you can come back out with us? And how did 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.000 a cab with a card Again, when I asked John 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:06.920 about it. He told me he wasn't in the taxi, 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.760 but he did try to hail one down. They all 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.280 had bullet proofess the superheroes, and I had nothing. I 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:14.440 had a T shirt in the cardigan, so I was 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:16.800 close to the cab so I could like escape for 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.440 hat too, but also close to Phoenix so I could 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:20.760 hear what they were saying so I could write it 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:24.840 all down. But if Phoenix says that he didn't let 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.560 me patrol with him the next day because I had 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:31.640 hailed a cab, that's not true. Phoenix was thrilled that 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:33.719 I was there, and in fact, when I got back 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:35.920 to the hotel like six in the morning or whatever, 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.360 the first thing Phoenix did was like phone me to 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:40.880 talk excitedly about what had just happened, and he was 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.960 like hyper ventilating down the phone. That's not someone who 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.000 was so annoyed with a journalist that they didn't want 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.000 them to patrol with them the next day. And the 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.079 only reason why there was no patrol the next day 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:52.160 was because Phoenix was doing a personal appearance at a 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.520 comic book convention in town, and I don't think he 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.319 did any patrolling that night. So the cab was true. 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.440 The rest of it was not true. There really relationship 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:04.280 was not exactly smooth sailing. But John doesn't hold a grudge. 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:08.120 On a personal level, I liked Phoenix very much. He 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.360 was my favorite of all the superheroes that I met. 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:17.200 He was charming, charismatic, fun odd in a kind of 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.320 engaging way. I'd say the most negative thing I would 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:24.160 say about Phoenix is that he had an odd relationship 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.920 with crime fighting. It was clear that he was kind 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:28.679 of addicted to it. It felt like there was an 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.680 addiction there that he couldn't find any crimph to thwart. 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:34.440 He was getting more and more frustrated. It's like he 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.280 needs a cigarette and he can't find one. But during 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.400 his time with Phoenix, John got a sense that crime 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:45.880 fighting wasn't the only thing he cared about. I think 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:49.679 got our first night, we heard a woman screaming and 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:54.360 Phoenix was like yacht Sie, running towards the Saga's family 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.360 had someone in distress he could save, and that as 0:10:57.400 --> 0:10:59.800 he was running towards the sound of the woman screaming, 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.199 this cop pulled up and these guys spot down the 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.559 window and it's the guy from YouTube. Can we get 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.760 a picture with you and fix It's like sure, so 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.400 you like stopped and took a picture with these guys 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:11.760 and from the time they were satisfied, so that the 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:16.120 screaming woman was nowhere to be seen ahead. According to Phoenix, 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:20.160 his relationship with fame is practical. It's what keeps him 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:25.360 from getting arrested or worse, and that protection is all 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.600 the more important if, like Phoenix, you're trying to do 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:32.200 superhero work as a person of color. I'm a black 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.480 guy in body armor running down the street punching white people. 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.400 I need some media coverage. So what does that look 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.720 like to you? Like, what's your strategy? Like what do 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:41.120 you hope to get out of being covered with the 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.920 media like that kind of stuff, not being arrested. I 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.439 think what people don't know is that, um, especially currently right, 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:51.000 there are two different Americas. Being a six ft tall 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.000 black dude in body armor running up to people who 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:57.840 have been previously assaulted in the streets is not a 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.560 solid look. People don't approach it the way that you 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.560 think that they would. But yeah, but when they see 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:06.720 Phoenix Jones, they see the symbol, the one that I 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:08.640 set up, the one they're aware of. They know what 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.080 my mission statement is they know why I'm there, and 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:14.400 it puts them as much at ease as a costume vigilante. 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.040 Can you know, as I shouldn't use that word as 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:20.559 a costume crime prevention specialist. That's what my attorneys told 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:24.440 me to use. Phoenix always has an answer for everything. 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:27.360 He always manages to come up with a reasonable explanation 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.880 for why he is right and everyone else is wrong. 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.640 When I spoke to Phoenix's former team members, they all 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:39.200 brought up his relationship with publicity. Here's El Caballero. A 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:42.240 lot of it. I felt like Jones's heart was for 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:45.200 protecting people, but then there was also this part that 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.360 I saw was actually his ultimate self at that time, 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:52.120 which was publicity. Midnight Jack told me that the rain 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:56.200 City Superheroes initially started out courting the media for strategic reasons. 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:57.960 It was a way to get a lot of attention 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.800 on crime trends, to call attention to problem areas the 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:06.720 police were not enforcing. But as things blew up that changed. 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.200 Ben was so hooked on the attention on the media 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.439 following and the celebrity status and things like that that 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:17.040 it was a problem. So then he started having us 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:20.720 fucking not not necessarily fake footage, but kind of stage ship. 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.120 When we talked about his relationship with the cameras, Phoenix 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:28.400 never admitted to staging patrol videos, but it was an 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.839 accusation I kept hearing. Cabby told me once that you 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.120 guys were doing some media interview and you started making 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:36.720 stuff up, and he was like, too, that didn't happen, 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:38.560 and you leaned over and he said, hey, man, the 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:40.400 history is told by the victors, you know. Oh no, 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.880 I didn't. I leaned over and I said history has 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:47.160 written by the winners, So you were just making stuff up. 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:52.400 Phoenix even clarified for me the story Cabby had been 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.160 talking about was when the rain City Superheroes were on 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:57.920 Good Morning America. They're like, what's your biggest crime you 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.760 ever stopped? And I was like, Arson, can you give 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:05.160 some details? Like I can't give details. Phoenix couldn't give 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.360 any details because there was no Arson, Like, we didn't 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:09.840 have a lot of credentials at that moment, but we're 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:11.560 I'm good going in America and we're about to go 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.240 on TV. And I was like, fuck it, yeah, straight up, 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:16.959 and I don't feel bad about it. I wouldn't take 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:18.560 it back, and I would do it again if you 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:20.840 admittedly just like make stuff up to the media, like, 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:22.360 how do I know what you're saying is true? It 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.760 wasn't admittedly making that hold on. If there's a way 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:26.440 for me to tell a story that makes it sound 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:28.280 better and doesn't change the core facts that are on 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:32.240 a police report, I will probably do that to Phoenix 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.080 is just giving the world when it wants. I don't 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:37.240 want to do interviews. I don't want to talk to 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.080 these people. I don't like you. I want to stop 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:41.880 bad people from doing bad things, and I want to 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:44.360 make people do it themselves and understand it. But the 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:46.600 government and the world we live in would not let me. 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.400 So I gave you what you wanted. You wanted a superhero, 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:50.760 because that's what you think what I was doing was, 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.640 So I gave you a superhero check. But no point 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:57.400 in any of this was this my like idea or goal. 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:00.600 It's these types of statements from Phoenix that I have 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.720 a hard time believing. But I wouldn't necessarily say that 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.880 Phoenix is lying when he says them. I think he 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:10.280 probably believes them to be true. And it's certainly true 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:12.560 that as a black man trying to fight crime on 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:15.760 the streets of America. The publicity provides him with a 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:18.880 level of protection that any of his former team members 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:22.960 who were white might not have needed. But I find 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.120 his unwillingness to admit that he enjoyed being a celebrity 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:29.640 as a kind of dishonesty for what it's worth. I 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:33.680 think Phoenix liked all the attention, and not just because 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:37.080 it made it easier for him to catch criminals. But 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.040 one thing does ring true and what Phoenix is saying here, 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.240 he spends his whole life attempting to live up to 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.680 a particular ideal of a superhero, and that's a lot 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.800 of pressure, and not everyone has the same idea of 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:55.760 what a superhero is. When those interpretations clashed, things got messy. 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:13.200 That's coming up O. Well, Phoenix Jones was making the 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.440 most of his newfound celebrity. One of his many appearances 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:21.120 got the attention of Seadellite Crystal Marks. That's her real name, 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.120 by the way, So she was kind of born with 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.520 a brilliant superhero alias. I've grown up in love with 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.080 superheroes my entire life. My dad was a huge NERD 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:30.880 into D and D. He was in the Navy where 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.200 they played D and D all the time, and he 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:35.440 got a friend of his to actually get my name 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.720 worked into a Superman comic book. I thought that was 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.120 the coolest thing. So when I heard that someone was 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:44.720 dressing up like one and doing something that a superhero 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:49.080 would do, it was irresistible. When Crystal saw the news 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:52.720 coverage of Phoenix Jones and his crew, she was immediately captivated. 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.600 Late one night, she set out to see what Phoenix 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.560 was really about. I ended up kind of stalking his team. 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.280 The rain City superhero moved went through the streets of Seattle, 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:03.840 watching them break up fights. Crystal didn't want the rain 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:06.400 City Superheroes to see her. I threw my hair upon 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:08.760 a ponytail, and I wore a hat and sunglasses at 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:10.919 night in the middle of Belltown in Seattle. It was 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:14.280 not the wisest choice. She hid behind street corners and 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:19.000 counted thirty seconds before creeping along behind the superheroes. I realized, like, Wow, 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:21.760 anyone can do this, that's really cool. But I wasn't 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.600 seeing the things happening that mattered to me. Homeless outreach. 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:29.879 As a kid growing up in Aberdeen, Washington, Crystal had 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.800 some rough patches in her childhood. When I was eight 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.080 years old, my biological mom and I were kicked out 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:38.080 of my grandmother's house and we were homeless. We had 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:40.360 nowhere to go, living in our car, we lived under 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:43.240 a bridge, living on my mom's friends couches, and we 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:45.159 did that for a little over six months, and that 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.359 stuck with me. I was homeless as a kid, and 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:49.080 I wanted to see people reached out to in a 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:55.479 compassionate way. For Crystal, Phoenix's team didn't seem like the 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:58.919 heroes she'd been looking for. I was like, do we 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:01.040 need to just be breaking up drunk fights? Can we 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:04.919 be doing more? So she started looking for alternatives. It 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:08.000 turned out Phoenix's Crew weren't the only superheroes in town. 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:12.320 Crystal ended up joining another group called the Washington Initiative. 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:17.399 They started out by patrolling around Belltown, that's Phoenix's turf. 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.280 It was a little bit of a not so friendly competition, 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:23.600 but we realized very quickly after the first couple of patrols, 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:26.320 where we were just seeing people stumbling to their cars, 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.520 we weren't really making a difference. So our team, the 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:33.480 Washington Initiatives, switched over to more homeless outreach Phoenix did 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:38.760 not take kindly to his fellow crime fighters. Evocatus soft 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:44.840 Phoenix's reaction firsthand. He would get in very animated, all screeching, 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.960 yelling matches about how other teams are just trying to 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.560 copy us or trying to draw his Facebook likes and 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:56.240 his fans his words away from him and ticket for 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:58.399 their own, which didn't make a lot of sense or 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.520 mean anything to me. He felt incredibly threatened by anyone 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:03.560 else that would try to do this line of work 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.840 in his city. Phoenix used his social media to rail 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:11.720 against his new enemies. It was this feud online. If 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.200 I do this better, No, I do this better. Phoenix 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:16.359 Jones was constantly saying, like, fine, you can say that 0:19:16.400 --> 0:19:18.840 you do homeless outreach better. I'm sure you do, but 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.399 that doesn't really matter. That's not really taking care of 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:23.679 a community as long as you acknowledge that I'm the 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.200 better fighter. The feud between Phoenix and the other Seattle 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:30.040 superheroes speaks to something I've noticed a lot in the 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:34.199 world of real life superheroes. There seems to be an 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.520 ideological split at the heart of the community over what 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:41.120 a superhero should actually do. Some of the real life 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:43.680 superheroes are all about action. They want to take down 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.000 criminals and stop violent crime. But there are a lot 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:50.920 like Crystal who see real superhero work as the humanitarian 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:55.119 stuff like homeless outreach. They are interested in getting into fights. 0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:59.080 In fact, they see the flashy, action packed crime fighting 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:03.480 is reckless, irresponsible. Personally, I don't understand why these two 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:07.800 models can't co exist peacefully, but then I'm not Phoenix Jones. 0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:12.240 Among the rest of Phoenix's crew, the reaction to their 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:17.040 superhero arrivals was mixed. Midnight Jack was more action oriented. 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:20.560 He was all about dousing people with flour and pepper spray. 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.840 Crystal didn't think much of his tactics though. Midnight Jack 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:28.600 as someone out on patrol, he's just not right, Like 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:31.159 there were plenty of time so I've heard of things 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:33.000 where he had like a flash grenade or like a 0:20:33.040 --> 0:20:34.800 smoke bomb or something, and he would set it off 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:38.720 on accident, Like you don't carry equipment that you don't 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.880 know how to use. On the flip side, Jack thought 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:44.600 the other groups like the Washington Initiative or nothing but 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:49.040 attention seekers for whatever reason, they don't feel secure in 0:20:49.080 --> 0:20:52.840 themselves or maybe they hate their job. They hate how 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:54.840 their life turned out, and so they're gonna go and 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:58.480 dress up like Spider Man and run around take selfies 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.199 and should lie down. I seen another crew kick a 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.200 homeless dude awake to give him a water bottle so 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:05.000 they could take a selfie of it, you know what 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:08.520 I mean, Like, I watched that happen. At the other 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.320 end of the rain City Superhero spectrum, Evo had been 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:14.240 getting tired of the media circus around Phoenix and of 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:16.840 the constant need to seek out drama in the streets. 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:21.040 He felt inspired by his group's new costumed rivals. Holy shit, 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:23.639 these guys are really professional. They're on top of this. 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.280 This is very different from what's been going on on 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:28.720 our team, where it's all about the Facebook likes and 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:32.480 it's all about how many followers do you have. Eva 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.720 reached out to the Washington Initiative and struck up a relationship. 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:39.760 At one point, he met Crystal Marks for coffee. Phoenix 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:44.600 fell two pieces over it, and he he wanted to 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:46.440 pat me down to make sure I didn't have any 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:49.919 bugs or microchips planted on me, because their entire existences 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.840