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Speaker 1: Novel. May I see a show of hands? How many

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Speaker 1: people in this room have ever dreamt of wearing spandex?

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Speaker 1: One day around two thousand and ten, a guy named

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Speaker 1: Peter Tangan was flipping through Rolling Stone magazine when an

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Speaker 1: article caught his eye. It was called the Legend of

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Speaker 1: Master Legend. I found out from this article that there

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Speaker 1: were more than a hundred people like minded costumed activists

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Speaker 1: that were in the country. You guys, there's really superheroes.

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Speaker 1: There's really superheroes. How exciting is this? Peter Tangan isn't

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Speaker 1: your average comic book fan. He's a photographer and you've

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Speaker 1: probably seen his work. One of his main gigs is

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Speaker 1: taking promo shots of Hollywood superheroes. He shot Christian Bail

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Speaker 1: for the Batman Begins poster, Chris Hemsworth as Door, and

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Speaker 1: also Will Ferrell as Elf. He likes to mix it up,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes living in the world of celebrities can feel

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Speaker 1: a little fake, and at a certain point in his career,

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Speaker 1: Peter longed to shoot something more real, and this article

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Speaker 1: about real life superheroes gave him an idea. In a

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Speaker 1: Ted talk he did in two thousand and fifteen, he

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Speaker 1: remembers the moment, and it hits me right then and there,

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Speaker 1: I say, I gotta figure out a way to make

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Speaker 1: Hollywood quality movie posters out of these guys. So Peter

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Speaker 1: started reaching out to the real life superheroes. He got

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Speaker 1: to know their work and shot them in glossy, big

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Speaker 1: budget photos where they posed with steely expressions against a

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Speaker 1: city backdrop. Inevitably, he decided to reach out to Phoenix Jones,

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Speaker 1: the greatest superhero of them all. Not long after, Phoenix

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Speaker 1: got a Facebook message from Peter and the two of

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Speaker 1: them talked on the phone, but it didn't go well.

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Speaker 1: Peter had met a lot of real life superheroes by

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Speaker 1: this point, and he was skeptical Phoenix's crime fighting approach.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, what you're doing is kind of dangerous

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Speaker 1: and actually maybe empathetical to the movement. You might want

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Speaker 1: to like calm yourself down, you know. Plus, I highly

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Speaker 1: doubt you're actually stopping as many crimes as you think.

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Speaker 1: He's like, I've seen it, maybe ten crimes that have

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Speaker 1: been stopped by realized superheroes maybe. And I was like, oh, okay,

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Speaker 1: well we're not friends. I don't like you. I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to talk to you again. And go fund yourself.

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Speaker 1: It's a wonder why none of Phoenix's old superhero buddies

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Speaker 1: or friends with him anymore. Anyway, after this initial call,

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Speaker 1: five months went by, and then Peter called Phoenix again,

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Speaker 1: and according to Phoenix, this time he was full of

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Speaker 1: praise you called me. He says, look, you need to

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Speaker 1: come to California. I need to take photos and videos

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Speaker 1: and shoot you. Allegedly, Peter told Phoenix that he should

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Speaker 1: sit down with the lesser real life superhero community and

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Speaker 1: tell them it was time to hang up their costumes.

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Speaker 1: You're trying to like bring them a place they should

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Speaker 1: not go. You can go there if you want to,

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Speaker 1: but he shouldn't, and you need to make that really

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Speaker 1: clear because they'll all get killed. And then he bought

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Speaker 1: me a plane ticket. I left two days later and

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Speaker 1: I flew down to California. Be Peter. The thing about

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Speaker 1: Peter Tangan is that he's a big Hollywood guy and

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Speaker 1: he lives in a big Hollywood house in the hills.

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Speaker 1: He lives in the giant glass house. And I have

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Speaker 1: a secret identity. So I wore my mask every single

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Speaker 1: day all day. It was terrible. It's so ridiculous. It

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Speaker 1: was in Vandis, California, and this glass house on the

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Speaker 1: side of a creaking cliff looks like the Iron Man House.

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Speaker 1: Literally every wall is a wucking window, Like, why would

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Speaker 1: you invite a superhero a secret identity to a place

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Speaker 1: where every wall is a bucking window. It was trash.

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Speaker 1: I slept in my mask. It was just horrible. As

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Speaker 1: horrible as it was, it actually turned out to be

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Speaker 1: a major turning point in Phoenix Jones life. Up until then,

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Speaker 1: he and his team had attracted some media coverage, but

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Speaker 1: according to Phoenix, he hadn't actively sought it out, and

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Speaker 1: every time media would call me, I be like, no,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to you. And he was like,

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Speaker 1: no one knows what you're doing, who you are, what

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Speaker 1: you stand for me. He's like, and everyone wants to

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Speaker 1: talk to you, so just go out tell him what

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Speaker 1: you mean, what you plan on doing. No one's gonna

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Speaker 1: get mad at you for telling what you're doing. He's like,

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Speaker 1: you're doing the dangerous work anyway, you might as well

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Speaker 1: protect yourself. Phoenix agreed to the photo shoot. In the photos,

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Speaker 1: he stands in a rain soaked street, fully costumed and

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Speaker 1: glares down at the camera. He'd look a lot like

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Speaker 1: Batman if it weren't for the gold chevron across his chest,

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Speaker 1: which glows with an unearthly yellow light. When the pictures

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Speaker 1: were released, Peter's phone started ringing off the hook. Phoenix

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Speaker 1: wasn't just a local news curiosity anymore. People around the

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Speaker 1: country wanted to know who this mysterious crime fighter was.

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Speaker 1: Peter fielded so many calls for Phoenix that he ended

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Speaker 1: up becoming his semi official spokesperson. Peter is actually how

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Speaker 1: I got in touch with Phoenix in the first place,

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Speaker 1: and Phoenix was going to need his pr rep. The

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Speaker 1: photo shoot catapulted him to a new level of fame.

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Speaker 1: Phoenix's knack for grabbing people's attention is one of his

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Speaker 1: greatest assets, but it's also maybe his greatest weakness. From

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Speaker 1: the team's at Novel and I Heart Radio, This is

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Speaker 1: the Superhero Complex, Episode four, Under the Spotlight. After the

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Speaker 1: Peter Tangan photo shoot, journalists wanted to fly to Seattle

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Speaker 1: and meet the famous Phoenix Jones. One of those journalists

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Speaker 1: was the writer and broadcaster John Ronson. John and Phoenix

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Speaker 1: hooked up for a piece that John was writing for

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Speaker 1: g Q. John had flown over from England, and according

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Speaker 1: to Phoenix, the idea had been to try and uncover

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Speaker 1: a sex trafficking ring, but when they finally tracked down

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Speaker 1: some sex workers, things didn't go as planned. We couldn't

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Speaker 1: find anything right because none of them said they were trafficked,

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Speaker 1: which was a giant bust. And so instead I went

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Speaker 1: on patrol with John Ronson and took down thirty armed

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Speaker 1: crack dealers, you know, by myself. Phoenix and some of

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Speaker 1: the other members of the rain City Crew had taken

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Speaker 1: John on a patrol of the city. Instead, nothing was happening.

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Speaker 1: He couldn't find any crimes to thwart, and so he

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Speaker 1: pulled out the big guns. That's John. He told me

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Speaker 1: that they headed to the Belltown neighborhood. It was a

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Speaker 1: sketchy pass of town tact three in the morning. There

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Speaker 1: was about five or six different groups of track dealers

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Speaker 1: on different street corners, and farious bires going between them.

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Speaker 1: Phoenix described a fairly intimidating scene. See, I was an

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Speaker 1: open cary state. Dudes walk around their guns out, They

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Speaker 1: stand on the corner right and when people come out

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Speaker 1: of the club, they strong armed them for money to

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Speaker 1: get their car out of parking. Lots thirty dudes with

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Speaker 1: open carried weapons in a parking lot. This was clearly

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Speaker 1: a dangerous situation, but John wasn't sure that the superhero's

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Speaker 1: presence made things safer. The crack dealers all unified in saying,

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Speaker 1: what the fuck do you think you're doing here with

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Speaker 1: your superhero outfits? And one of them said this may

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Speaker 1: be funning games for you, but this isn't funny games

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Speaker 1: for us. This is how we feed our families. And

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Speaker 1: then one of them said, if you don't get off

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Speaker 1: our block, we're going to show you what the Bernard does.

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Speaker 1: And they had a point like what the funk were

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Speaker 1: we doing trying to break the back player whose business

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Speaker 1: was of ours? I mean, I'm saying ours? What I

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Speaker 1: really made his phoenix is the way Phoenix tells it.

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Speaker 1: This was a heroic standoff. I look a ghost and

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Speaker 1: I said, ghost man, there's a good chance we're gonna

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Speaker 1: die here, bro, are you? Are you good? Ghost is

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Speaker 1: like yep? And I looked at Jack and Jack's like,

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Speaker 1: you're stupid, Jones. This is like a movie, you know.

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Speaker 1: I looked at a caballero and Cabby's like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: already called the car man, He's like, I hope they

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Speaker 1: don't should have the cops get you. I hadn't call

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Speaker 1: the cops, but John told me the danger really did

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Speaker 1: seem genuine. They came back to us and they said,

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Speaker 1: you are stupid motherfucker's Do you know that? Do you

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Speaker 1: know that you were stupid? Motherfucker's We should shoot you.

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Speaker 1: And I've got to say at this point, I was terrified.

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Speaker 1: They showed us the shape of a gun and the sweatpants.

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Speaker 1: They were clearly coming up with a justification to commit

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Speaker 1: an active violence against Phoenix. And they said, we should

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Speaker 1: shoot you, but if you refuse to leave, I guess

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Speaker 1: we're going to have to go home. And they did.

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Speaker 1: They all went home, and so Phoenix one. When Phoenix

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Speaker 1: told me the story, he didn't paint John in a

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Speaker 1: very favorable light. John Ronson hailed a cab and they

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Speaker 1: got in the cab and told the cab to wait

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Speaker 1: and was hiding in the cab and then he wanted

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Speaker 1: to come back up control with us and we're like, no,

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Speaker 1: you're hit in the cab. Bro like you're crazy, Like

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Speaker 1: you can come back out with us? And how did

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Speaker 1: a cab with a card Again, when I asked John

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Speaker 1: about it. He told me he wasn't in the taxi,

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Speaker 1: but he did try to hail one down. They all

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Speaker 1: had bullet proofess the superheroes, and I had nothing. I

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Speaker 1: had a T shirt in the cardigan, so I was

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Speaker 1: close to the cab so I could like escape for

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Speaker 1: hat too, but also close to Phoenix so I could

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Speaker 1: hear what they were saying so I could write it

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Speaker 1: all down. But if Phoenix says that he didn't let

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Speaker 1: me patrol with him the next day because I had

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Speaker 1: hailed a cab, that's not true. Phoenix was thrilled that

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Speaker 1: I was there, and in fact, when I got back

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Speaker 1: to the hotel like six in the morning or whatever,

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Speaker 1: the first thing Phoenix did was like phone me to

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Speaker 1: talk excitedly about what had just happened, and he was

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Speaker 1: like hyper ventilating down the phone. That's not someone who

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Speaker 1: was so annoyed with a journalist that they didn't want

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Speaker 1: them to patrol with them the next day. And the

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Speaker 1: only reason why there was no patrol the next day

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Speaker 1: was because Phoenix was doing a personal appearance at a

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Speaker 1: comic book convention in town, and I don't think he

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Speaker 1: did any patrolling that night. So the cab was true.

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Speaker 1: The rest of it was not true. There really relationship

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Speaker 1: was not exactly smooth sailing. But John doesn't hold a grudge.

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Speaker 1: On a personal level, I liked Phoenix very much. He

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Speaker 1: was my favorite of all the superheroes that I met.

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Speaker 1: He was charming, charismatic, fun odd in a kind of

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Speaker 1: engaging way. I'd say the most negative thing I would

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Speaker 1: say about Phoenix is that he had an odd relationship

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Speaker 1: with crime fighting. It was clear that he was kind

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Speaker 1: of addicted to it. It felt like there was an

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Speaker 1: addiction there that he couldn't find any crimph to thwart.

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Speaker 1: He was getting more and more frustrated. It's like he

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Speaker 1: needs a cigarette and he can't find one. But during

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Speaker 1: his time with Phoenix, John got a sense that crime

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Speaker 1: fighting wasn't the only thing he cared about. I think

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Speaker 1: got our first night, we heard a woman screaming and

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Speaker 1: Phoenix was like yacht Sie, running towards the Saga's family

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Speaker 1: had someone in distress he could save, and that as

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Speaker 1: he was running towards the sound of the woman screaming,

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Speaker 1: this cop pulled up and these guys spot down the

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Speaker 1: window and it's the guy from YouTube. Can we get

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Speaker 1: a picture with you and fix It's like sure, so

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Speaker 1: you like stopped and took a picture with these guys

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Speaker 1: and from the time they were satisfied, so that the

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Speaker 1: screaming woman was nowhere to be seen ahead. According to Phoenix,

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Speaker 1: his relationship with fame is practical. It's what keeps him

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Speaker 1: from getting arrested or worse, and that protection is all

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Speaker 1: the more important if, like Phoenix, you're trying to do

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Speaker 1: superhero work as a person of color. I'm a black

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Speaker 1: guy in body armor running down the street punching white people.

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Speaker 1: I need some media coverage. So what does that look

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Speaker 1: like to you? Like, what's your strategy? Like what do

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Speaker 1: you hope to get out of being covered with the

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Speaker 1: media like that kind of stuff, not being arrested. I

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Speaker 1: think what people don't know is that, um, especially currently right,

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Speaker 1: there are two different Americas. Being a six ft tall

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Speaker 1: black dude in body armor running up to people who

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Speaker 1: have been previously assaulted in the streets is not a

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Speaker 1: solid look. People don't approach it the way that you

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00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,560
Speaker 1: think that they would. But yeah, but when they see

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Speaker 1: Phoenix Jones, they see the symbol, the one that I

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Speaker 1: set up, the one they're aware of. They know what

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Speaker 1: my mission statement is they know why I'm there, and

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Speaker 1: it puts them as much at ease as a costume vigilante.

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Speaker 1: Can you know, as I shouldn't use that word as

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Speaker 1: a costume crime prevention specialist. That's what my attorneys told

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Speaker 1: me to use. Phoenix always has an answer for everything.

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Speaker 1: He always manages to come up with a reasonable explanation

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Speaker 1: for why he is right and everyone else is wrong.

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Speaker 1: When I spoke to Phoenix's former team members, they all

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Speaker 1: brought up his relationship with publicity. Here's El Caballero. A

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Speaker 1: lot of it. I felt like Jones's heart was for

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Speaker 1: protecting people, but then there was also this part that

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Speaker 1: I saw was actually his ultimate self at that time,

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Speaker 1: which was publicity. Midnight Jack told me that the rain

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Speaker 1: City Superheroes initially started out courting the media for strategic reasons.

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Speaker 1: It was a way to get a lot of attention

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Speaker 1: on crime trends, to call attention to problem areas the

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Speaker 1: police were not enforcing. But as things blew up that changed.

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Speaker 1: Ben was so hooked on the attention on the media

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Speaker 1: following and the celebrity status and things like that that

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Speaker 1: it was a problem. So then he started having us

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Speaker 1: fucking not not necessarily fake footage, but kind of stage ship.

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Speaker 1: When we talked about his relationship with the cameras, Phoenix

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00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,400
Speaker 1: never admitted to staging patrol videos, but it was an

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Speaker 1: accusation I kept hearing. Cabby told me once that you

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00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,120
Speaker 1: guys were doing some media interview and you started making

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Speaker 1: stuff up, and he was like, too, that didn't happen,

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00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:38,560
Speaker 1: and you leaned over and he said, hey, man, the

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00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,400
Speaker 1: history is told by the victors, you know. Oh no,

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00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,880
Speaker 1: I didn't. I leaned over and I said history has

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Speaker 1: written by the winners, So you were just making stuff up.

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00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,400
Speaker 1: Phoenix even clarified for me the story Cabby had been

253
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Speaker 1: talking about was when the rain City Superheroes were on

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Speaker 1: Good Morning America. They're like, what's your biggest crime you

255
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Speaker 1: ever stopped? And I was like, Arson, can you give

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00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,160
Speaker 1: some details? Like I can't give details. Phoenix couldn't give

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00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,360
Speaker 1: any details because there was no Arson, Like, we didn't

258
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:09,840
Speaker 1: have a lot of credentials at that moment, but we're

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00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:11,560
Speaker 1: I'm good going in America and we're about to go

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Speaker 1: on TV. And I was like, fuck it, yeah, straight up,

261
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:16,959
Speaker 1: and I don't feel bad about it. I wouldn't take

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00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:18,560
Speaker 1: it back, and I would do it again if you

263
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:20,840
Speaker 1: admittedly just like make stuff up to the media, like,

264
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,360
Speaker 1: how do I know what you're saying is true? It

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00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,760
Speaker 1: wasn't admittedly making that hold on. If there's a way

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Speaker 1: for me to tell a story that makes it sound

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00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,280
Speaker 1: better and doesn't change the core facts that are on

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00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,240
Speaker 1: a police report, I will probably do that to Phoenix

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00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,080
Speaker 1: is just giving the world when it wants. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to do interviews. I don't want to talk to

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Speaker 1: these people. I don't like you. I want to stop

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Speaker 1: bad people from doing bad things, and I want to

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Speaker 1: make people do it themselves and understand it. But the

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Speaker 1: government and the world we live in would not let me.

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Speaker 1: So I gave you what you wanted. You wanted a superhero,

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Speaker 1: because that's what you think what I was doing was,

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Speaker 1: So I gave you a superhero check. But no point

278
00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:57,400
Speaker 1: in any of this was this my like idea or goal.

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Speaker 1: It's these types of statements from Phoenix that I have

280
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,720
Speaker 1: a hard time believing. But I wouldn't necessarily say that

281
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,880
Speaker 1: Phoenix is lying when he says them. I think he

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00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,280
Speaker 1: probably believes them to be true. And it's certainly true

283
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,560
Speaker 1: that as a black man trying to fight crime on

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00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,760
Speaker 1: the streets of America. The publicity provides him with a

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00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,880
Speaker 1: level of protection that any of his former team members

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00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,960
Speaker 1: who were white might not have needed. But I find

287
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,120
Speaker 1: his unwillingness to admit that he enjoyed being a celebrity

288
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,640
Speaker 1: as a kind of dishonesty for what it's worth. I

289
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,680
Speaker 1: think Phoenix liked all the attention, and not just because

290
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,080
Speaker 1: it made it easier for him to catch criminals. But

291
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,040
Speaker 1: one thing does ring true and what Phoenix is saying here,

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00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,240
Speaker 1: he spends his whole life attempting to live up to

293
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,680
Speaker 1: a particular ideal of a superhero, and that's a lot

294
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,800
Speaker 1: of pressure, and not everyone has the same idea of

295
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,760
Speaker 1: what a superhero is. When those interpretations clashed, things got messy.

296
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:13,200
Speaker 1: That's coming up O. Well, Phoenix Jones was making the

297
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,440
Speaker 1: most of his newfound celebrity. One of his many appearances

298
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:21,120
Speaker 1: got the attention of Seadellite Crystal Marks. That's her real name,

299
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,120
Speaker 1: by the way, So she was kind of born with

300
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,520
Speaker 1: a brilliant superhero alias. I've grown up in love with

301
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,080
Speaker 1: superheroes my entire life. My dad was a huge NERD

302
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:30,880
Speaker 1: into D and D. He was in the Navy where

303
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,200
Speaker 1: they played D and D all the time, and he

304
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,440
Speaker 1: got a friend of his to actually get my name

305
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 1: worked into a Superman comic book. I thought that was

306
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,120
Speaker 1: the coolest thing. So when I heard that someone was

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00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,720
Speaker 1: dressing up like one and doing something that a superhero

308
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,080
Speaker 1: would do, it was irresistible. When Crystal saw the news

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00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,720
Speaker 1: coverage of Phoenix Jones and his crew, she was immediately captivated.

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00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 1: Late one night, she set out to see what Phoenix

311
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,560
Speaker 1: was really about. I ended up kind of stalking his team.

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00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,280
Speaker 1: The rain City superhero moved went through the streets of Seattle,

313
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,840
Speaker 1: watching them break up fights. Crystal didn't want the rain

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00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,400
Speaker 1: City Superheroes to see her. I threw my hair upon

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00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,760
Speaker 1: a ponytail, and I wore a hat and sunglasses at

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00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:10,919
Speaker 1: night in the middle of Belltown in Seattle. It was

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00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,280
Speaker 1: not the wisest choice. She hid behind street corners and

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00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:19,000
Speaker 1: counted thirty seconds before creeping along behind the superheroes. I realized, like, Wow,

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00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,760
Speaker 1: anyone can do this, that's really cool. But I wasn't

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00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,600
Speaker 1: seeing the things happening that mattered to me. Homeless outreach.

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Speaker 1: As a kid growing up in Aberdeen, Washington, Crystal had

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00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 1: some rough patches in her childhood. When I was eight

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00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,080
Speaker 1: years old, my biological mom and I were kicked out

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00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,080
Speaker 1: of my grandmother's house and we were homeless. We had

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00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,360
Speaker 1: nowhere to go, living in our car, we lived under

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00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,240
Speaker 1: a bridge, living on my mom's friends couches, and we

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00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,159
Speaker 1: did that for a little over six months, and that

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00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,359
Speaker 1: stuck with me. I was homeless as a kid, and

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00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,080
Speaker 1: I wanted to see people reached out to in a

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00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:55,479
Speaker 1: compassionate way. For Crystal, Phoenix's team didn't seem like the

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00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,919
Speaker 1: heroes she'd been looking for. I was like, do we

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00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 1: need to just be breaking up drunk fights? Can we

333
00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,919
Speaker 1: be doing more? So she started looking for alternatives. It

334
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,000
Speaker 1: turned out Phoenix's Crew weren't the only superheroes in town.

335
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,320
Speaker 1: Crystal ended up joining another group called the Washington Initiative.

336
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,399
Speaker 1: They started out by patrolling around Belltown, that's Phoenix's turf.

337
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,280
Speaker 1: It was a little bit of a not so friendly competition,

338
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,600
Speaker 1: but we realized very quickly after the first couple of patrols,

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00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,320
Speaker 1: where we were just seeing people stumbling to their cars,

340
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,520
Speaker 1: we weren't really making a difference. So our team, the

341
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,480
Speaker 1: Washington Initiatives, switched over to more homeless outreach Phoenix did

342
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:38,760
Speaker 1: not take kindly to his fellow crime fighters. Evocatus soft

343
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:44,840
Speaker 1: Phoenix's reaction firsthand. He would get in very animated, all screeching,

344
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,960
Speaker 1: yelling matches about how other teams are just trying to

345
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 1: copy us or trying to draw his Facebook likes and

346
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,240
Speaker 1: his fans his words away from him and ticket for

347
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,399
Speaker 1: their own, which didn't make a lot of sense or

348
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,520
Speaker 1: mean anything to me. He felt incredibly threatened by anyone

349
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 1: else that would try to do this line of work

350
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,840
Speaker 1: in his city. Phoenix used his social media to rail

351
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,720
Speaker 1: against his new enemies. It was this feud online. If

352
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,200
Speaker 1: I do this better, No, I do this better. Phoenix

353
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,359
Speaker 1: Jones was constantly saying, like, fine, you can say that

354
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,840
Speaker 1: you do homeless outreach better. I'm sure you do, but

355
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,399
Speaker 1: that doesn't really matter. That's not really taking care of

356
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,679
Speaker 1: a community as long as you acknowledge that I'm the

357
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,200
Speaker 1: better fighter. The feud between Phoenix and the other Seattle

358
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,040
Speaker 1: superheroes speaks to something I've noticed a lot in the

359
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:34,199
Speaker 1: world of real life superheroes. There seems to be an

360
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 1: ideological split at the heart of the community over what

361
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,120
Speaker 1: a superhero should actually do. Some of the real life

362
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,680
Speaker 1: superheroes are all about action. They want to take down

363
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,000
Speaker 1: criminals and stop violent crime. But there are a lot

364
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,920
Speaker 1: like Crystal who see real superhero work as the humanitarian

365
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,119
Speaker 1: stuff like homeless outreach. They are interested in getting into fights.

366
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 1: In fact, they see the flashy, action packed crime fighting

367
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:03,480
Speaker 1: is reckless, irresponsible. Personally, I don't understand why these two

368
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 1: models can't co exist peacefully, but then I'm not Phoenix Jones.

369
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 1: Among the rest of Phoenix's crew, the reaction to their

370
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 1: superhero arrivals was mixed. Midnight Jack was more action oriented.

371
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 1: He was all about dousing people with flour and pepper spray.

372
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 1: Crystal didn't think much of his tactics though. Midnight Jack

373
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 1: as someone out on patrol, he's just not right, Like

374
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,159
Speaker 1: there were plenty of time so I've heard of things

375
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 1: where he had like a flash grenade or like a

376
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 1: smoke bomb or something, and he would set it off

377
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 1: on accident, Like you don't carry equipment that you don't

378
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,880
Speaker 1: know how to use. On the flip side, Jack thought

379
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 1: the other groups like the Washington Initiative or nothing but

380
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 1: attention seekers for whatever reason, they don't feel secure in

381
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,840
Speaker 1: themselves or maybe they hate their job. They hate how

382
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 1: their life turned out, and so they're gonna go and

383
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,480
Speaker 1: dress up like Spider Man and run around take selfies

384
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,199
Speaker 1: and should lie down. I seen another crew kick a

385
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 1: homeless dude awake to give him a water bottle so

386
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 1: they could take a selfie of it, you know what

387
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, I watched that happen. At the other

388
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 1: end of the rain City Superhero spectrum, Evo had been

389
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 1: getting tired of the media circus around Phoenix and of

390
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 1: the constant need to seek out drama in the streets.

391
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 1: He felt inspired by his group's new costumed rivals. Holy shit,

392
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 1: these guys are really professional. They're on top of this.

393
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 1: This is very different from what's been going on on

394
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 1: our team, where it's all about the Facebook likes and

395
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: it's all about how many followers do you have. Eva

396
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: reached out to the Washington Initiative and struck up a relationship.

397
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 1: At one point, he met Crystal Marks for coffee. Phoenix

398
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,600
Speaker 1: fell two pieces over it, and he he wanted to

399
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,440
Speaker 1: pat me down to make sure I didn't have any

400
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 1: bugs or microchips planted on me, because their entire existences

401
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 1: around spying on Phoenix. According to him, despite Phoenix's paranoia.

402
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 1: Eva was undeterred and he and Crystal hit it off.

403
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: In fact, a couple of years later their relationship turned

404
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 1: to more than a superhero collaboration. You know, her hands

405
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: would brush on on a patrol and like, and then

406
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 1: he and I started dating and we got married. These days,

407
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,879
Speaker 1: Crystal isn't involved in the superhero movement, but she is

408
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 1: still a public servant from She was the deputy mayor

409
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 1: of Burian, a city just south of Seattle, and when

410
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: she campaigned for office, she did not hide her past

411
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 1: as a real life superhero. It took me sitting down

412
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 1: with my husband and saying, like, does this actually translate?

413
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,439
Speaker 1: Does this type of real world experience of breaking up fights,

414
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: doing homeless outreach, does that actually translate into public office?

415
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,199
Speaker 1: And he helped me list out all the ways that

416
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 1: it did, leading groups, making decisions, strategic planning, all of

417
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: this stuff. And so I ran in seen. I took

418
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: out the incumbent in the primary with five people in

419
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: the race, and then I came in first in the

420
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 1: general and I became deputy mayor two years into my arm.

421
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 1: When I interviewed Phoenix, this was one of the parts

422
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 1: of his story. I was was interested in asking him

423
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 1: about I'd heard stories of him referring to people like

424
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 1: crystal marks with a derogatory term. It's a story I'd

425
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: heard from a lot of people who knew him. Apparently,

426
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: Phoenix called the heroes who focused on homeless outreach real

427
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: life sandwich handlers. That seemed to be one of the

428
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 1: centers of beef around certain members of the rainsyt Haris

429
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 1: was that, like you were like, if you want to

430
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 1: help people, like giving them a food, like you can't

431
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: be on my team anymore. That's not what I said,

432
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: say what happened. Like, for sure, if you want to

433
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: take our main focus and make it humanitarian aid, then

434
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 1: you should find another team, because we do humanitarian aid

435
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,360
Speaker 1: for sure. But the concept is stopping crime. No point

436
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: in feeding people if the food you feed them gets

437
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 1: robbed at their house. It's that simple. I've never seen

438
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 1: a comic book with who runs around feeding people cheeseburgers,

439
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: except for the handblurger cartoons that I got from the

440
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: McDonald's in Like the Nights. We just have different concepts apparently,

441
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,120
Speaker 1: of like what fighting crime is. You can definitely hand

442
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: out food. You should definitely do that. There's nothing wrong

443
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 1: with that, you don't need to wear an outfit for

444
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 1: that at all. Actually wearing an outfit to hand out

445
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: food to regular ass homeless people makes you an asshole.

446
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 1: Why why is that? Because you're showing up and saying,

447
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: you guys are so disadvantaged to look at me and

448
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 1: my giant suit handing you sandwiches that I made in

449
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: my own house. I mean, it's absurd. I think showing

450
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: up in a suit and saying, hey, I put on

451
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: this armor to protect you guys because I care about

452
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: you being stuck out here makes way more sense than

453
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 1: to me saying, hey, here's a fucking cheeseburger. By the way,

454
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 1: look at my outfit. Amazing, insane, It's just incredible. It's

455
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: like the disconnect between that in fighting crime is mind

456
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: blowing to me. I don't even get it. Phoenix has

457
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 1: a very specific vision of what it means to be

458
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: a superhero, and for him, anything less than active crime

459
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: fighting doesn't measure up. But when you make busting criminals

460
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,439
Speaker 1: your goal, it isn't just the criminals you have to

461
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: watch out for. Phoenix's daredevil crime stopping approach brought him

462
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 1: onto the radar of a powerful To me, the Seattle

463
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: Police Department. That's coming up For a while. At least,

464
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 1: it seemed that Phoenix Jones had managed to fulfill his

465
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,719
Speaker 1: dream of becoming Seattle's very own Night Wing, the superhero

466
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: Phoenix had looked up to as a kid. Things weren't

467
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: always perfect in the rain City superhero movement, but for now,

468
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: Phoenix was patrolling the streets several nights a week, chasing

469
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: down criminals and snapping photos with fans. But the more

470
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: attention he got, the more he rankled the local authorities.

471
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: The problem was that Seattle already had its own force

472
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 1: of professional crime fighters, and they felt that Phoenix Jones

473
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 1: was stepping on their toes. Police worry Phoenix has recently

474
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: taste of fame, He pushes him to put himself in

475
00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:01,200
Speaker 1: harm's way. They insert themselves into a potentially volatile situation

476
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: and then they end up being victimized as well. Don't

477
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 1: insert yourself into those situations. If you see something called

478
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 1: nine and one police, hope he stops before it's too late.

479
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 1: A pattern began to emerge. Phoenix and his crew would

480
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: make the news for their latest active costumed heroism, and

481
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: the Seattle Police Department would issue an increasingly exasperated statement

482
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: to the effect of, thanks, but you can leave the

483
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: crime fighting to us. I didn't know anybody who actually

484
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: thought it was a good idea for then to put

485
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 1: themselves in harm's way, put on these outfits, if you will,

486
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: and make themselves a target for others. Carmen Best was

487
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 1: the chief of the Seattle Police Department from two thousand

488
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 1: and eighteen to two thousand and twenty. She was the

489
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 1: first black woman to lead the force. But before Carmen

490
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: became chief, she held a lot of different roles, and

491
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: she was there during the height of the Seattle superhero movement.

492
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: While you truly respect what they were trying to do,

493
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: I was very concerned one for their safety and two

494
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: for their full motive, because we really discourage as profession

495
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: people doing what we would view as a vigilanteism. Carmen

496
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: told me that the police department had been watching the

497
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: superheroes out on patrol and making their TV appearances with

498
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: growing concern. They don't have all the same protections that

499
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: a law enforcement officer who's sworn in, who's had the

500
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: training that we have in place. There was an instance

501
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 1: when one of them was injured pretty significantly and was stabbed.

502
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: You know, we definitely were coutuming them when that occurred.

503
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: You know, it was our you know, our worst fears

504
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: realized in that situation and also intervening in the manner

505
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: that they did, they put themselves in some legal jeopardy

506
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: as well. Carmen didn't know which would be superhero was

507
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 1: in this instance, but Phoenix claims he's been stabbed on

508
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: patrol more than once and she definitely remembers him. Of course,

509
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: his name came up. He did the most amount of

510
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: interviews and was pretty extroverted, if you will, and how

511
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 1: he approached this whole thing. In my opinion, I think

512
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: the opinion of many within the police department, this seemed

513
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: a little bit like fantasy work, you know, putting on

514
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 1: a uniform or an outfit, because you're actually not a superhero.

515
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: You're a person who's intervening and what can ostensibly be

516
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: some pretty dangerous situations, and you can interfere in such

517
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: a way that causes harm to you, not only yourself,

518
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: but to the person you're trying to assist as well.

519
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 1: So we were very concerned about it. I understand this argument,

520
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: and I think it applies to a lot of people

521
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: in the real life superhero community. But I also think

522
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: that this is one of the areas where Phoenix does

523
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: have a point. He's not the type of Yahoo who

524
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: simply put on a costume and jumped into this job

525
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: without thinking about it. He actually put in the time

526
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: to train. I can't imagine being a cop and not

527
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: having these certain skills. You know. It's not like going

528
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: lifting weights. It's like running and training my knife disarms

529
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: like I have. I do Wednesday knife disarms, right, I

530
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: do Saturday hand to hand combat like that all the time, always.

531
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: And he isn't only prepared for physical altercations. He also

532
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: has clearly spent time studying the laws around what he

533
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: can and can't do when fighting crime. Oh I don't

534
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: hire a lawyer anymore because I know all this stuff.

535
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you can see I know all of the laws.

536
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: The hard part for me is filling out the paperwork appropriately.

537
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: I've won them all, just be clear, every single one

538
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: of them I've won, except for one I consider a win,

539
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: but technically it was not. It was like a no contest.

540
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: The guy just didn't show up. But I mean that's

541
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: still kind of a win. A lot of the media

542
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: reports and statements from the Seattle Police around two thousand

543
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,239
Speaker 1: and eleven seemed to speak to an underlying worry that

544
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 1: Phoenix might use excessive force in his crime fighting or

545
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: that he wasn't accountable for his behavior. But those are

546
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: the same accusations that the US Department of Justice made

547
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: about the Seattle Police Department in the same year. The

548
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: d j's Civil Rights Division receive the letter in two

549
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: thousand and ten from the Washington a c l U

550
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: and thirty four other civil rights and community based organizations.

551
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: The letter requested an investigation into multiple incidents of excessive

552
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: force by the Seattle Police Department, particularly force used against

553
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: persons of color. The d o J launched an investigation,

554
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: and their report found that the SPD were engaging in

555
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: a pattern or practice of unnecessary or excessive force, and

556
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: that the chain of command does not properly investigate, analyze,

557
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: or demand accountability from its subordinate officers for their uses

558
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: of force. They also found serious concerns about biased policing.

559
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: To date, in April, the Seattle Police are still under

560
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: federal oversight as a result of that report, though a

561
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: lot of activists in the city think their reforms haven't

562
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: gone far enough. It's also a reminder of what Phoenix

563
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: was talking about earlier, of the additional risk that he

564
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: faces because he's trying to fight crime as a black man.

565
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: Phoenix talks about crime fighting like it's his whole reason

566
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: for being. It's intense, but it's also not unique. A

567
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: lot of people are drawn to this line of work,

568
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: but very few of them grind the nipples off a

569
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: batman outfit and go around hiding trampolines and alleys. I

570
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of people like the more traditional

571
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: path for someone who had those ideals about fighting crime

572
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: would be to just join the police force. I'm curious

573
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: why that was not appealing to you, because I want

574
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: to help people, and you don't see the police as

575
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: being helpful. The police are very very helpful in certain

576
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 1: situations when they understand it, and the right day, when

577
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: you catch the right officer and you happen to have

578
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: an open in chet situation. But that's not what I

579
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: consider policing. Where police really shine is investigating crimes that

580
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: have already taken place. But that is not justice to me.

581
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: That's legalized retribution. I think if you're a police officer

582
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: or a crime fighter, your job is intervened between the

583
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 1: incident and the person at the moment of that incident,

584
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: not to investigate afterwards, like investigating afterwards is what you've

585
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: done when a plan fails. Talking to Phoenix, the biggest

586
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 1: beef he seemed to have with the cops was that

587
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 1: he thinks they aren't effective at stopping crime. But Phoenix

588
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: saw that as an opportunity, a gap the cops weren't

589
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: able to fill, but a superhero might. Cabby also saw

590
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: the rain City Superheroes as a way of making up

591
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: for the police's ineffectiveness. They show up after a crime

592
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: has happened, and a lot of things happened in between

593
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: when a crime is happening and when law enforcement actually

594
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: arrives or medical services arrived to actually deal with the problem.

595
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: That in between space was where the rain City Superheroes

596
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: saw work to be done. But even at their most intrepid,

597
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 1: they always got law enforcement involved, despite their own bivalent

598
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: relationship with the cops. In fact, on their patrols, Evil

599
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: told me there was even a role dedicated to police liaison.

600
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: I started being all one, which means if we saw

601
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 1: an actual crime happen, we would call Seattle Police, right away.

602
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: That was like step one was called them always know

603
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: where we're at, the street corners and the intersections. You

604
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: know exactly where we're at so we can report it.

605
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: But when the police did show up, things could get tense.

606
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: Cabby told me a story about a patrol when things

607
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: went south. We rolled up in Belltown and saw this

608
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: guy harassing this man and woman who were a mixed

609
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: race couple, and instantly we knew, like we felt like

610
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 1: this guy was racist, like trying to attack this couple.

611
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 1: According to Cabby, one of the other rain City superheroes,

612
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: Captain Karma, approached the man and told him to leave

613
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: the couple alone. And this guy, like Butterfly, kicked him

614
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: running the chest and threw him out in the street,

615
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: and I was like what the Cabby says, he ran

616
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: over and pin the guy in a wrestling hold until

617
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: the police finally arrived. They pull up and they pull

618
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 1: out their guns. They're like, let him go, let him go.

619
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: We're like, we want to press charges. This guy just

620
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: attacked a couple with their baby. We think he's a

621
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: racist or whatever. Like they're like let him go, and

622
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: like this guy's violent and they're like let him go.

623
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: So the rain City Superheroes did what they were told,

624
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: and they let the guy go. When he runs up

625
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 1: and he punches the cop in the face. So then

626
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the cops, who have their weapons drawn,

627
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: are wrestling with this guy and the guns are pointing

628
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: around like to all these different people, putting everyone's life

629
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: in danger. And so I grabbed the guy again. Cabby

630
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: claims he broke the guy's wrist. The police demanded that

631
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: the superheroes unmasked and hand over their footage, which they

632
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 1: agreed to, but then the police let the guy they

633
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: had just subdued go free. I'm like, nope, I want

634
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: to press charges. Sorry, we can't press charges against him,

635
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: Like why is that? Because that's crazy, and they're like

636
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,359
Speaker 1: diplomatic community, he's from the Russian embassy. So they ended

637
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: up letting him fucking go pardon my language, and we're

638
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: there looking like dumbasses like guess, I don't know, sitting

639
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: there with their mass of like hands on the hood,

640
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: like we were criminals Russian diplomats. Aside, there are a

641
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: lot of videos that showcase the dysfunctional relationship Phoenix and

642
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: his crew had with the Seattle police and Phoenix became

643
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: increasingly vocal online with his criticisms of the cops. Let's

644
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: make sure I understand this guy assaults person, the guy

645
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: walks away clean and free. Nothing happens. Police won't take

646
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 1: my statement, won't take my paperwork. I am pretty piste

647
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: off right now. Phoenix had a couple of favorite targets

648
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: to beef with. Seattle has lost its mind when it

649
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 1: comes to what a real crime is. Has lost its mind,

650
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 1: and part of that is Pete Holmes and his inability

651
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 1: to do his job. Phoenix is talking about former Seattle

652
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: City Attorney Pete Holmes. Me and Pete Holmes have a

653
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: history of hatting each other. To the distric attorney of

654
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 1: Seattle is a complete joke because trash trash from Holmes

655
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: was in charge of all misdemeanor prosecutions in Seattle. He

656
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: has sandy gray hair parted at the side and glasses,

657
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: and he embraced a lot of left leaning policies when

658
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: he was in office. He declined to be interviewed for

659
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: this series, but he's gone on record multiple times telling

660
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: Phoenix to stand down. Holmes once said to the press quote, Mr.

661
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 1: Photor is no hero, just a deeply misguided individual. He

662
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: also argued that Phoenix couldn't rely on Seattle's Good Samaritan

663
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: laws to protect him. He said, quote, our state's Good

664
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:57,919
Speaker 1: Samaritan statutes are designed to protect individuals who happened upon,

665
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: rather than actively seek out opportunities to render assistance to others.

666
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 1: These laws are not designed to protect a branded, costumed character,

667
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: his roving video crew, or their copyrighted videos from the

668
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: reach of torte plaintiffs. It's not surprising that Phoenix and

669
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: Pete Holmes kept butting heads the first couple of times.

670
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: The first like ten or twelve times, it was just

671
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: me pleading with him to actually charge the criminals and

672
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,760
Speaker 1: him explaining to me how I'm not a police officer,

673
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: and me being like, yeah, no, ship idiot, I don't

674
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: need to be a police officer, and him saying, well,

675
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: it draws a weird precedents. No, which draws a president

676
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: is a guy running around a rubber suit and actually

677
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 1: finding crime that draws a precedence. Maybe should do your job.

678
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: Throughout things were getting increasingly tense between Phoenix and Seattle's

679
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 1: law enforcement, and while his fellow superheroes didn't necessarily disagree

680
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 1: with him, they worried that Phoenix's outspokenness would provoke a backlash.

681
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: Jones really instigated the hatred of SPD. That's Cabby. He

682
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 1: was just always like an interviews anything, He's like, cops,

683
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: if they would do their job, blah blah. I was like, dude,

684
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not really how it is. He's a

685
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: total dick to them, which I understand. A young black dude,

686
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: I get it, And I'm not an apologist for law enforcement. Basically,

687
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: people call and they show up afterwards. It's like trash collectors.

688
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: It was like, you deal with it afterwards. But at

689
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: the same time, we got all put under the whole blanket. Oh,

690
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: these guys think they're vigilantes. They're taking the low their

691
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: own hands. It's like, no, we're not. In the early

692
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: hours of October nine, two thousand eleven, Phoenix was out

693
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: in downtown Seattle patrolling with Ghost, a videographer named Ryan McNamee,

694
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: and the journalist t Krulos. And we met back in

695
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: episode one. It had been a long night and Phoenix

696
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: was nearly ready to wrap things up. Then he says

697
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: one of his crew spotted a fight outside of bar.

698
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: Phoenix looked out and I take off running towards because

699
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: I could see these eyes are kicking this person on

700
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: the ground, just beating him up. When they're kicking each other,

701
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: punching each other, that's tea pushing each other down the street.

702
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: Phoenix ran at full tilt and leapt into the middle

703
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: of it. I'm like, breaking up, fight, breaks up, everything's cool.

704
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: Then they start yelling about getting a gun and all

705
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: kinds of other stuff. They take up to their car.

706
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: They try to chase me around. The guy chased me

707
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:29,919
Speaker 1: comes at me, so I just spotted with pepper spray.

708
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: No big deal. He pepper sprays them, and the pepper

709
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:39,359
Speaker 1: spray dissipated into the air and everyone was coughing and

710
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: rubbing their eyes. In the midst of this chaos, a

711
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 1: woman started attacking Phoenix with her shoes. I have body armors, all, okay,

712
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: but I started and then she fell on her face.

713
00:39:54,200 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 1: The minute she fell, those dudes went crazy and he

714
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: started coming back at us. It all sort of grouped together,

715
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: and then they rushed us. What Jesus and attacked us.

716
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 1: I actually got punched in the face, and I was like,

717
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:22,879
Speaker 1: don't don't punch me. We were in a very kayak situation.

718
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: I was genuinely very afraid for my safety. Seriously, your

719
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: camera put your camera camera is up. At one point

720
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 1: it looked like they might be looking for a gun.

721
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 1: Phoenix pulled out his trusty pepper spray again and gave

722
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: the attackers another dose. Ghost got kicked and fell over

723
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: our trash can busted his finger up. I have hand

724
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: surgery from how bad you are its hand. We're not.

725
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,360
Speaker 1: They started throwing rocks at us and then tried to

726
00:40:52,400 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: run us over with a car. Finally the cops showed up,

727
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: and they were pissed. The first thing this officer said

728
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: was Phoenix Jones, I'm tired of playing these games with you, man,

729
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: I'm tired of this game. We're about this rest the

730
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: whole bunch of year clean. According to both Tea and Phoenix,

731
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: the police officers were not interested in hearing what Phoenix

732
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: had to say. They wouldn't look at our video, they

733
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't listen to us. They're like, we've had enough, you stupid.

734
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: You've already pupiseday three people today, which is true, but

735
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 1: you arrested the other two. Like maybe you don't understand

736
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: how this works, you know, And then your cop was

737
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: saying stuff about like, you're not a police officer, you

738
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: don't have any authority. You guys are really arrogant that

739
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: you can make a difference, and I was like, yeah,

740
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: it's crazy to think you can get into a car,

741
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: drive to a crime and make a difference, right, douche.

742
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: The cops arrested Phoenix and took them away in their car.

743
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: The people who Phoenix said had been fighting would let go,

744
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: and the other Rain City superheroes melted into the night.

745
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 1: He was left standing on the street corner alone, and

746
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: that's when I looked down at my hands, and I

747
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: saw that my hands were shaking from the adrenaline of

748
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: what had just happened. I've always liked Phoenix personally, and

749
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: I think that he's done some good things for the

750
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: city of Seattle. But it made me realize that the

751
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: real life superhero thing could be really dangerous. And in

752
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: that circumstance, I think that his intention was to help

753
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: save people because he saw people fighting, but that's his

754
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 1: interaction made the situation a lot worse. The pepper spray

755
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: made everyone angry, and it turned the scene into total chaos.

756
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: The tables had turned on Seattle's comic book crusader. This

757
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: time it was Phoenix who ended up behind bars. Phoenix

758
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 1: Jones was arrested by saddle P d on suspicion of assault.

759
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 1: Officers st Jones told them he spotted two men fighting,

760
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,760
Speaker 1: but could not explain why four people, including two women,

761
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: got pepper spray. Pepper sprayed priest reports of citizens being

762
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: pepper sprayed by Jones and his group pepper Spray, No

763
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: big deal, pepper sprayed made everyone angry. The officer wrote

764
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: that Jones had a history of injecting himself in these incidents.

765
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 1: No deal. Everyone was coughing and rubbing their eyes, and

766
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: deal turned the scene into total chaos. Jones has been

767
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: advised to observe and report incidents to only smokes that man.

768
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: I bet this never happens to you. What's a superhero

769
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: to do when his back is against the wall. That's

770
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: coming up on The Superhero Complex. The Superhero Complex is

771
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: hosted and written by Me, David Weinberg and reported by Me,

772
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: Amalia Sortland and Caroline Thornham. Production from Amalia Shortland and

773
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: Caroline Thornham. Sean Glenn, Max O'Brien and David Waters are

774
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: executive producers. Fact checking by Andrew Schwartz. Production management from

775
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: Sharie Houston, Frankie Taylor and Charlotte Wolf. Sound design, mixing

776
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 1: and scoring by Nicholas Alexander and Daniel Kempson. Music supervision

777
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 1: by Nicholas Alexander and David Waters. Original music is composed

778
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 1: by Paul Housden and special thanks to Peter Tangan, Willard Foxton,

779
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: Matt O'Mara, Katrina Norvelle Beth and Macaluso, Rin Rosenbaum, Shelby Shenkman,

780
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: and all the team at U t A. For more

781
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: from Novel, visit novel dot Audio m