Speaker 1: Well, you talk about volatility, Doug, We're seeing that in
Speaker 1: the crypto space. To fall up from f t X
Speaker 1: is not easy. How much more contagion can we expect
Speaker 1: in coming days, in coming weeks. Let's get to Marcello Sapeo,
Speaker 1: his CEO and co founder of hashtags street Cred. Marcella
Speaker 1: could have you with us more pain for the crypto space.
Speaker 1: I mean, Genesis the latest to warn about a potential bankruptcy.
Speaker 1: Thank you, as Linda, it's great to be here, Happy
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving to you all. So yeah, it's been a tough
Speaker 1: market complately being seen like a lot of volatility and
Speaker 1: uh and and not so great news you like, and
Speaker 1: for the industry, like when we see stories like f
Speaker 1: t X. But yeah, that's a reality. But ultimately we
Speaker 1: all expect that to be a good thing long term.
Speaker 1: Let's say that actors leaving the market is always is
Speaker 1: always good but also painful. But yeah, this space still
Speaker 1: feels in many ways like the wild West, so to speak.
Speaker 1: And I'm talking about jurisdiction. We know t X based
Speaker 1: in the Bahamas and now there's a dispute and I
Speaker 1: don't even want to over characterize it as being a dispute,
Speaker 1: but a little bit of tension between Bahamian regulators in
Speaker 1: the US. How this gets resolved. We know the situation
Speaker 1: with finance is as complex because I don't know that
Speaker 1: the company is is licensed in a singular jurisdiction. I
Speaker 1: think it's spread out over many different jurisdictions. When it
Speaker 1: comes to the volatility Marcello, that we have seen in markets,
Speaker 1: are we up against a regulatory regime that we don't
Speaker 1: even understand at this moment. Governments are going to lean
Speaker 1: in and apply a level of regulation that we can't
Speaker 1: even imagine at this point. Well, yeah, you know what
Speaker 1: trip to is this global plus by nature, so honestly
Speaker 1: it allows this this this this geography arbitrage, let's call
Speaker 1: it that way, and and and and and Yes, you
Speaker 1: have like a number of jurisdictions. They are some of
Speaker 1: more loose, others like more restricted as some others actually
Speaker 1: like taking you know, like the leading actually trying to
Speaker 1: to regulate and to propose like uh good rules and
Speaker 1: that that that will develop this market. But ultimately, you know,
Speaker 1: like US is the largest capital markets in the planet. Uh,
Speaker 1: we have to to to to to assume that once
Speaker 1: we have like clear rules in US that will at
Speaker 1: some extent you know, like uh, let's say inspire or
Speaker 1: or invite you know, like other jurisdictions to to to
Speaker 1: so much follow that, and we have been missing that
Speaker 1: in US. So um, hopefully FTX will will will will
Speaker 1: will at some extent like push or or or bring
Speaker 1: this opportunity for regulators. They are like to to be
Speaker 1: more assertive in this case, like because we have been
Speaker 1: really lacking that. The the irony of it, all right,
Speaker 1: my shallow investors urging governments to tighten regulations. The thing
Speaker 1: is global regulators don't even agree. Yeah, that's true. It
Speaker 1: is not about really restriction because crypto you know, like
Speaker 1: it's really a technical technological breakthrough, a progress, right, it
Speaker 1: was health an invention. It's really more you know, like
Speaker 1: trying to understand that and to create the basic rules
Speaker 1: for that to development and really for for us as
Speaker 1: a society to understand how it will you know, like
Speaker 1: a contribute like for for for for for human and
Speaker 1: let's say like this. But ultimately, you know, right now,
Speaker 1: the fact that there is nothing really or nothing uh
Speaker 1: solid out there is allowing the number of crazy you know,
Speaker 1: like behaviors coming from a number of players that they
Speaker 1: have been really doing whatever they want. And I think
Speaker 1: ft X and and Sarah Lewin and Celsius. Uh, those
Speaker 1: are a number many of the stories of all the
Speaker 1: bad stories in the industry. What technology keeps doing, you know,
Speaker 1: like following journey, it's it's I mean crypto, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's it keeps you know, like uh like improving
Speaker 1: as a technology, and so only like that, honestly, you know, like, well,
Speaker 1: there's the blockchain technology underneath it. And I don't know
Speaker 1: that anyone is as critical of block chain as a
Speaker 1: technology per se. I think it's what exists on on
Speaker 1: top of that and the extent to which UM investors,
Speaker 1: whether their retail or institutional, are exposed. Would you be
Speaker 1: supportive of a global standard something coming, let's say, as
Speaker 1: an example, from the Bank for International Settlements. Would you
Speaker 1: be comfortable with that or do you like the idea
Speaker 1: that you can get away with maybe not to be
Speaker 1: too critical, but there are the potential for as you
Speaker 1: put a global arbitrage. Do you want to make sure
Speaker 1: that there is that possibility or or would you favor
Speaker 1: kind of a global standard. I don't think that's possible
Speaker 1: to be honest, I think you've got we're gonna see
Speaker 1: like a number of frameworks. Uh. Generally, generally there's this
Speaker 1: confusion around blockchain and crypto. But it's important to too
Speaker 1: to understand that crypto is the very definition of watching,
Speaker 1: like one cannot leave without the other. Uh what I say,
Speaker 1: you know, like when what? What? What we think here
Speaker 1: at hashtags when you think about regulations is to begin
Speaker 1: with the foundations and and and really to to at
Speaker 1: some extent to like uh bring uh the all all
Speaker 1: the proxies, all the stuff that we learned like in
Speaker 1: traditional financial markets, and have you like the base or
Speaker 1: a foundation for crypto so the market can develop. We
Speaker 1: don't need a lot. We just need clarity for things
Speaker 1: like securities, for things like what is how to treat
Speaker 1: you know, like the exchanges, you know, like because ultimately
Speaker 1: what what are the effects that has happening? Exchanges is
Speaker 1: really they are more they have been seen themselves, I
Speaker 1: guess like banks, but just there are not banks, like
Speaker 1: they don't have like, uh like any of the regulation
Speaker 1: that actually protects investors around that. So so really what
Speaker 1: we see here is that we don't need much, but
Speaker 1: we need the regulators to step in like to to
Speaker 1: to give some clarity and from there, you know, like
Speaker 1: work with the market to actually create the rules that
Speaker 1: will protect investors and will put the technology in a
Speaker 1: great place to actually solve real problems to a number
Speaker 1: of people. Effective matter is financial markets are built on trust.
Speaker 1: Right now, when it comes to the crypto space, it's
Speaker 1: been a lot of trust, lots of confidence. How how
Speaker 1: do you build that trust from here? You know, this
Speaker 1: is not very different than and run. You know, like
Speaker 1: when when we think back in the day, you know,
Speaker 1: like electricity electricty cap you know, like eliminating houses, you know,
Speaker 1: like and and and and despite like and run a
Speaker 1: big company utility company imploded, right, So so so the
Speaker 1: trust is not really you know, like related to crypto
Speaker 1: itself in this point, is really around the bad actors
Speaker 1: working with the crypto and this is the one those
Speaker 1: are the ones that actually should be regulated. Trust will
Speaker 1: be built actually, I think, uh in both ways, Like
Speaker 1: one at this point, like short term, if we can
Speaker 1: have like clear rules, you know, like for for us
Speaker 1: to protect investors, like for for players like those like
Speaker 1: and and the other part is really like the technology
Speaker 1: will solve the problems like crypto is the technology based
Speaker 1: on trust, you know, like the nature of crypto is
Speaker 1: literally like trust programming trust, right, and and this is
Speaker 1: one of the things that solves. So hopefully you're like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have like enough, you know, like or or
Speaker 1: the least you're like, we can expect now in order
Speaker 1: to have to see the technology pretty much replacing or
Speaker 1: for us to program those regulations into the technology where
Speaker 1: we go from honest, that's what it does. Trust. Trust,
Speaker 1: It's got to be about trust and confidence. Marcello, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for being with us some Marcello Sampaio,
Speaker 1: who is the CEO co founder of hash decks, Street Cred,
Speaker 1: talking crypto for um Rio