1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,040
Speaker 1: Well, you talk about volatility, Doug, We're seeing that in

2
00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,559
Speaker 1: the crypto space. To fall up from f t X

3
00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:09,720
Speaker 1: is not easy. How much more contagion can we expect

4
00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,160
Speaker 1: in coming days, in coming weeks. Let's get to Marcello Sapeo,

5
00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:17,720
Speaker 1: his CEO and co founder of hashtags street Cred. Marcella

6
00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,239
Speaker 1: could have you with us more pain for the crypto space.

7
00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,480
Speaker 1: I mean, Genesis the latest to warn about a potential bankruptcy.

8
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,120
Speaker 1: Thank you, as Linda, it's great to be here, Happy

9
00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,720
Speaker 1: Thanksgiving to you all. So yeah, it's been a tough

10
00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:35,200
Speaker 1: market complately being seen like a lot of volatility and

11
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:37,720
Speaker 1: uh and and not so great news you like, and

12
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:40,600
Speaker 1: for the industry, like when we see stories like f

13
00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,000
Speaker 1: t X. But yeah, that's a reality. But ultimately we

14
00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,320
Speaker 1: all expect that to be a good thing long term.

15
00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,960
Speaker 1: Let's say that actors leaving the market is always is

16
00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:54,080
Speaker 1: always good but also painful. But yeah, this space still

17
00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,240
Speaker 1: feels in many ways like the wild West, so to speak.

18
00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,760
Speaker 1: And I'm talking about jurisdiction. We know t X based

19
00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,120
Speaker 1: in the Bahamas and now there's a dispute and I

20
00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,600
Speaker 1: don't even want to over characterize it as being a dispute,

21
00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,800
Speaker 1: but a little bit of tension between Bahamian regulators in

22
00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,759
Speaker 1: the US. How this gets resolved. We know the situation

23
00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,160
Speaker 1: with finance is as complex because I don't know that

24
00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,360
Speaker 1: the company is is licensed in a singular jurisdiction. I

25
00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,000
Speaker 1: think it's spread out over many different jurisdictions. When it

26
00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,840
Speaker 1: comes to the volatility Marcello, that we have seen in markets,

27
00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,720
Speaker 1: are we up against a regulatory regime that we don't

28
00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,480
Speaker 1: even understand at this moment. Governments are going to lean

29
00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,960
Speaker 1: in and apply a level of regulation that we can't

30
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,880
Speaker 1: even imagine at this point. Well, yeah, you know what

31
00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:47,039
Speaker 1: trip to is this global plus by nature, so honestly

32
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:52,000
Speaker 1: it allows this this this this geography arbitrage, let's call

33
00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,720
Speaker 1: it that way, and and and and and Yes, you

34
00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,800
Speaker 1: have like a number of jurisdictions. They are some of

35
00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,000
Speaker 1: more loose, others like more restricted as some others actually

36
00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,840
Speaker 1: like taking you know, like the leading actually trying to

37
00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,800
Speaker 1: to regulate and to propose like uh good rules and

38
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,480
Speaker 1: that that that will develop this market. But ultimately, you know,

39
00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,600
Speaker 1: like US is the largest capital markets in the planet. Uh,

40
00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,840
Speaker 1: we have to to to to to assume that once

41
00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,079
Speaker 1: we have like clear rules in US that will at

42
00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,480
Speaker 1: some extent you know, like uh, let's say inspire or

43
00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,720
Speaker 1: or invite you know, like other jurisdictions to to to

44
00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,080
Speaker 1: so much follow that, and we have been missing that

45
00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:36,960
Speaker 1: in US. So um, hopefully FTX will will will will

46
00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,919
Speaker 1: will at some extent like push or or or bring

47
00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,440
Speaker 1: this opportunity for regulators. They are like to to be

48
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,120
Speaker 1: more assertive in this case, like because we have been

49
00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,800
Speaker 1: really lacking that. The the irony of it, all right,

50
00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,639
Speaker 1: my shallow investors urging governments to tighten regulations. The thing

51
00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:58,960
Speaker 1: is global regulators don't even agree. Yeah, that's true. It

52
00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,720
Speaker 1: is not about really restriction because crypto you know, like

53
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,840
Speaker 1: it's really a technical technological breakthrough, a progress, right, it

54
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,679
Speaker 1: was health an invention. It's really more you know, like

55
00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,680
Speaker 1: trying to understand that and to create the basic rules

56
00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,640
Speaker 1: for that to development and really for for us as

57
00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,720
Speaker 1: a society to understand how it will you know, like

58
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,480
Speaker 1: a contribute like for for for for for human and

59
00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,919
Speaker 1: let's say like this. But ultimately, you know, right now,

60
00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,880
Speaker 1: the fact that there is nothing really or nothing uh

61
00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:36,000
Speaker 1: solid out there is allowing the number of crazy you know,

62
00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,520
Speaker 1: like behaviors coming from a number of players that they

63
00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,200
Speaker 1: have been really doing whatever they want. And I think

64
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,800
Speaker 1: ft X and and Sarah Lewin and Celsius. Uh, those

65
00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,480
Speaker 1: are a number many of the stories of all the

66
00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,840
Speaker 1: bad stories in the industry. What technology keeps doing, you know,

67
00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,120
Speaker 1: like following journey, it's it's I mean crypto, you know,

68
00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:02,920
Speaker 1: like it's it keeps you know, like uh like improving

69
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:07,600
Speaker 1: as a technology, and so only like that, honestly, you know, like, well,

70
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,280
Speaker 1: there's the blockchain technology underneath it. And I don't know

71
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,720
Speaker 1: that anyone is as critical of block chain as a

72
00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,800
Speaker 1: technology per se. I think it's what exists on on

73
00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,520
Speaker 1: top of that and the extent to which UM investors,

74
00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:24,960
Speaker 1: whether their retail or institutional, are exposed. Would you be

75
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,040
Speaker 1: supportive of a global standard something coming, let's say, as

76
00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,919
Speaker 1: an example, from the Bank for International Settlements. Would you

77
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,920
Speaker 1: be comfortable with that or do you like the idea

78
00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,240
Speaker 1: that you can get away with maybe not to be

79
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:41,080
Speaker 1: too critical, but there are the potential for as you

80
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,400
Speaker 1: put a global arbitrage. Do you want to make sure

81
00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,320
Speaker 1: that there is that possibility or or would you favor

82
00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,360
Speaker 1: kind of a global standard. I don't think that's possible

83
00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,640
Speaker 1: to be honest, I think you've got we're gonna see

84
00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,680
Speaker 1: like a number of frameworks. Uh. Generally, generally there's this

85
00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,600
Speaker 1: confusion around blockchain and crypto. But it's important to too

86
00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,600
Speaker 1: to understand that crypto is the very definition of watching,

87
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,800
Speaker 1: like one cannot leave without the other. Uh what I say,

88
00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,400
Speaker 1: you know, like when what? What? What we think here

89
00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,880
Speaker 1: at hashtags when you think about regulations is to begin

90
00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,159
Speaker 1: with the foundations and and and really to to at

91
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:21,120
Speaker 1: some extent to like uh bring uh the all all

92
00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,599
Speaker 1: the proxies, all the stuff that we learned like in

93
00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,160
Speaker 1: traditional financial markets, and have you like the base or

94
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,880
Speaker 1: a foundation for crypto so the market can develop. We

95
00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,640
Speaker 1: don't need a lot. We just need clarity for things

96
00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:38,599
Speaker 1: like securities, for things like what is how to treat

97
00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,720
Speaker 1: you know, like the exchanges, you know, like because ultimately

98
00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,159
Speaker 1: what what are the effects that has happening? Exchanges is

99
00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,880
Speaker 1: really they are more they have been seen themselves, I

100
00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,880
Speaker 1: guess like banks, but just there are not banks, like

101
00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,440
Speaker 1: they don't have like, uh like any of the regulation

102
00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,599
Speaker 1: that actually protects investors around that. So so really what

103
00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,400
Speaker 1: we see here is that we don't need much, but

104
00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,120
Speaker 1: we need the regulators to step in like to to

105
00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,279
Speaker 1: to give some clarity and from there, you know, like

106
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,600
Speaker 1: work with the market to actually create the rules that

107
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,440
Speaker 1: will protect investors and will put the technology in a

108
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,960
Speaker 1: great place to actually solve real problems to a number

109
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,800
Speaker 1: of people. Effective matter is financial markets are built on trust.

110
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,080
Speaker 1: Right now, when it comes to the crypto space, it's

111
00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,000
Speaker 1: been a lot of trust, lots of confidence. How how

112
00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:31,640
Speaker 1: do you build that trust from here? You know, this

113
00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,320
Speaker 1: is not very different than and run. You know, like

114
00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:36,560
Speaker 1: when when we think back in the day, you know,

115
00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:41,120
Speaker 1: like electricity electricty cap you know, like eliminating houses, you know,

116
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,960
Speaker 1: like and and and and despite like and run a

117
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:49,760
Speaker 1: big company utility company imploded, right, So so so the

118
00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,360
Speaker 1: trust is not really you know, like related to crypto

119
00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,600
Speaker 1: itself in this point, is really around the bad actors

120
00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:58,640
Speaker 1: working with the crypto and this is the one those

121
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,920
Speaker 1: are the ones that actually should be regulated. Trust will

122
00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,560
Speaker 1: be built actually, I think, uh in both ways, Like

123
00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,520
Speaker 1: one at this point, like short term, if we can

124
00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,760
Speaker 1: have like clear rules, you know, like for for us

125
00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,200
Speaker 1: to protect investors, like for for players like those like

126
00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,040
Speaker 1: and and the other part is really like the technology

127
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,160
Speaker 1: will solve the problems like crypto is the technology based

128
00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,080
Speaker 1: on trust, you know, like the nature of crypto is

129
00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,760
Speaker 1: literally like trust programming trust, right, and and this is

130
00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,280
Speaker 1: one of the things that solves. So hopefully you're like,

131
00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,240
Speaker 1: we're gonna have like enough, you know, like or or

132
00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,800
Speaker 1: the least you're like, we can expect now in order

133
00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,240
Speaker 1: to have to see the technology pretty much replacing or

134
00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,840
Speaker 1: for us to program those regulations into the technology where

135
00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,560
Speaker 1: we go from honest, that's what it does. Trust. Trust,

136
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,880
Speaker 1: It's got to be about trust and confidence. Marcello, thank

137
00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,160
Speaker 1: you so much for being with us some Marcello Sampaio,

138
00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:58,520
Speaker 1: who is the CEO co founder of hash decks, Street Cred,

139
00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,640
Speaker 1: talking crypto for um Rio