1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, where we 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: discussed all things mental health, personal development, and all the 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy Harden Bradford, 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: and resources, visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: dot com. And while I hope you love listening to 8 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to 9 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining me 11 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: for session forty six of the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. 12 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: I could not think of a better way for us 13 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: to close out Black History Month than today's interview with 14 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: Shawna Murray Brown. Shawna is the director and founder of 15 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: Kindred Wellness and Integrative Practice, dedicated to honoring culture, expanding mindfulness, 16 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: and holding safer space for change makers, black women, leaders, 17 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: and their families to heal. She holds a master's degree 18 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: in social work from the University of Maryland, Baltimore and 19 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: a Bachelor of Science in Criminology and Family Science from 20 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: the University of Maryland College Park Shawna is a licensed 21 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: clinical social worker in the state of Maryland, Keygong instructor, speaker, 22 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:42,639 Speaker 1: and mind body medicine practitioner. She provides liberation focus integrative psychotherapy, 23 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: community healing spaces, professional workshops, as well as key Gong 24 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: and mind body skills groups that honor the power of movement, breath, 25 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: and connection to nature. She is a consultant to trailblazing 26 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: organizations ready to tackle tough topics about race. From the 27 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: Heart Center, Shauna and I talked about some of the 28 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: unique mental health concerns related to activism and advocacy, the 29 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: importance of self care and boundaries for activists, and her 30 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: work with other therapists to create spaces that are anti 31 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 1: racist and liberation focused. Here's our conversation. Well, thank you 32 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: so much for joining us today, Shawna. Yes, I'm so excited. 33 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: I'm very excited you were able to join us. So 34 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: I knew that I wanted to have you on the 35 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,679 Speaker 1: podcast because you do some incredibly important work. UM. You 36 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: work with activists, advocates, and change makers as a part 37 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: of your practice. Can you tell us more about what 38 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: those different UM populations are. Absolutely so in my work, 39 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: it's it's toofold where I'm serving like women in UM 40 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: leadership positions that are really really passionate about social justice. 41 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: And then from our community aspect, I'm serving activists from 42 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: on a broad perspective, right. So this could be the 43 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: activists that's a community organizer that is really connected to 44 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: the the the grassroots movements around UM political activism. It 45 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: could be folks in public office that are sort of 46 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: low key, really really pro black and for social justice, 47 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: but seem to have to wear like a mask in 48 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: their spaces. It could be an advocate that's working, you 49 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: know as a case manager or a social worker, but 50 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: it feels like their life is driven by social justice 51 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: so very much, so across the game, and I'm working 52 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: with folks who at their core feel like they have 53 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: dedicated their life to social justice and or black liberation. Yes, San, Yes, 54 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: so you know, I think again, this is incredibly important work. 55 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: Can you tell me like how you got into this work? 56 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: Like what made you decide that this was going to 57 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: be the population that you targeted for your practice? Now 58 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: this is like a really deep like I knew you 59 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: weregard to ask this question, and I was like, Oh, 60 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: what am I gonna say because it's so deep, UM, 61 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: I would I have to say that my life walk 62 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: has guided me to the space. I was very much 63 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: so an activist UM growing up in high school and 64 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: then in college. I was really like, you know, wearing 65 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: the afro with the black power fists, doing all of 66 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: those things. But I sort of left that and ended 67 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: up doing UM and found myself doing just therapy and 68 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 1: wasn't really sure who I wanted to focus in on 69 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: until later. I would say that after UM this Black 70 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: Lives Matter movement started to happen, and some of my 71 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: own personal experiences where my family was directly impacted by 72 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: the Black Lives Matter UH movement UM and the tragedies 73 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: of it UM, I really had to sit with myself 74 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: and figure out, you know, how could I UM really 75 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: live a life that would be centered in legacy and 76 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: like doing really powerful and honorable work honoring my ancestors. 77 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: And so during that time where I was really contemplating that, 78 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: I was super duper pregnant, like super super duper like wobbling, 79 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: and UM, a community organization that I hoped to co 80 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: found that is now like doing really honorable work, asked 81 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: me to do to offer healing spaces for UM some 82 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: activists here in Baltimore City after one of our trailblazing 83 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: activists was um I murdered by way of community violence. 84 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: And during that time, I'm holding these spaces, you know, UM. 85 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: Community folks are like Shana, I would never go to therapy, 86 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: but your therapist you cool. I would love to come 87 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: to therapy with you. But it was like forty people. 88 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: So so I was like, I love y'all and I can't. 89 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: But what that What that highlighted for me was I 90 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: needed to ensure and provide the support and training and 91 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: guidance for other folks to be able to do this 92 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: work explicitly. So I would say the community called me 93 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: to this work as well as my sort of life path. Yeah, 94 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 1: isn't that so amazing? And see, that's why I think 95 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: it's so important to be exposed to so many different 96 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,919 Speaker 1: kinds of therapists who are doing different kinds of things, 97 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: because I think all it takes is one experience with 98 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: the therapist who is unlike what you thought therapy was 99 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: like to open up your eyes to how therapy can 100 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: be helpful for you. It's the truth. I mean, all 101 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: of us are not the same We're not a monolith. 102 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: And like, for me, the I'm like deeply, um did 103 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 1: I participate very often in all of the things happening 104 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: in the community and grassroots level in Baltimore City, So 105 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: folks know me and it's normalized and really destigmatized this 106 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: whole concept of what it means to go to therapy 107 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: because I would be like, hey about and yeah, I'm 108 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: a therapist. Right, those two things that I have to 109 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: you know, exist separate from one another. Right, So can 110 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: you talk about some of the unique mental health needs 111 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: and challenges may be related to, um, the kinds of 112 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: people that you typically see in your practice, like activists 113 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: and advocates and those kinds of things. Absolutely, So, I 114 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: mean it really runs the gamut. But I would say 115 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: that some of the underlying things is that we're looking 116 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: at things from our framework where things are masked, meaning 117 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: like aggression is showing up in a in a different way, 118 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: and you might not know that the person is struggling 119 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: with deep seated anger because they're crafted so well and 120 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: eloquently and they're on their Twitter feed, or you know 121 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: that their email don't seem like that that's what's happening, 122 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: or they feel like they have to sort of alter 123 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:09,559 Speaker 1: themselves because they're in the public eye, um, increased suspicion. Right, So, 124 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: because many of the folks that I'm serving could be 125 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: in high profile UM roles and responsibilities, or they might 126 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: be like I have thousands and thousands of followers, they 127 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: might be on CNBC. Right, So because of these things, 128 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: they're wondering, Okay, can I really trust this person? Is 129 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: this person out to get me? So suspicion, suspicion of 130 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 1: the genuineness of the folks around them is a thing 131 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: that often comes up. UM. I would say, like suppression 132 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: of your emotions through um, alcohol, use, smoking, weed, UM, 133 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: spending money, you know, shopping, but absolutely like not being 134 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: able to spend a lot of time focusing on their 135 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: own well being and sort of picking up whatever is 136 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: around them to sort of cope. Um. And the same 137 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: thing would be with eating, not eating often right or 138 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: eating too much and the things that they're eating is 139 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: not particularly healthy because you know, they feel like they're 140 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: always on, like they can't shut off, like they're running 141 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: against the clock. I mean that's a few other things, 142 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: um joy but like I mean, it's it runs the 143 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: gamut of all of the sort of mental health challenges 144 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: that we might see UM and our community. It just 145 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: I would just say it looks different. Yeah, I mean 146 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: that's what I was gonna add that. You know, you're 147 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: adding all of this on top of the like all 148 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: the other mental health challenges that we might typically see 149 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: someone come into therapyfore UM And something that you you 150 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: said that really struck me related to like the suspiciousness, 151 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: right and like kind of paranoia that is sometimes very 152 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: warranted UM. You know, and we talked about that. I've 153 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: talked about that with other guests, like this kind of 154 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: cultural paranoia, like what's going on in the world and 155 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: like not knowing who you can trust. So what kinds 156 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: of things are you may be doing with your clients 157 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: UM to kind of help to UM assuage some of 158 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: this like paranoia, Like how do you help them deal 159 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: with that? So I think, like I tell them really 160 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: explicitly like that oftentimes they're paranoia. It makes sense the 161 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: way that they're sort of reflecting on it. Right. Oftentimes 162 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: Folks that UM my clients have read about historical figures 163 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: and where something happened to them when they were in 164 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: the limelight and they were doing all of this move 165 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: these social justice movements, and they were taken out by 166 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: the government, right, and so I affirm and sit with 167 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: them about the fact that y'as history history shows that 168 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: these things have happened, and let's sort of get clear 169 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: about where the fear and the shame and all these 170 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: other motions, what's fueling this paranoia, what are the worst 171 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: things that could happen, and what has actually happened. So 172 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: really sing them into the present moment, oftentimes using mindfulness, 173 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: meditation che gong, which the traditional Chinese form of meditation, 174 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: and movement, um prayer and ritual right and alignment whatever 175 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: they're sort of religious or spiritual background is right, So 176 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: to try to bring them back into the moment, like Okay, 177 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: you're cool now, right, Like, let's let's take a scan 178 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: and then let's get clear about what might be fueling 179 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: these thoughts. And it's usually a bunch of stuff layered 180 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: on top of it that's fueling their their PARANOIDA. Yeah, understandably. Yeah. 181 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: I mean the other thing that I would say is 182 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: everything for the the activists or change makers, it's amplified, 183 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because these are um leaders, 184 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: like these are the same folks where you know, uh, 185 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: community sort of calls them whenever something happens within the city, right, like, 186 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: so what are we gonna do? The police that X 187 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: by and Z, you know, they are expected to know 188 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,719 Speaker 1: what the next step is, and so you know, uh, 189 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: there's a lot of things and a lot of people 190 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,719 Speaker 1: that they're interacting with and they may not even personally know. 191 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: They could be walking around in the street and somebody 192 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: just comes up to them. You were on the news 193 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: or I know who you are, or I follow you 194 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: on Twitter and you just you know, So it's normalizing 195 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: it and then helping them sort of get figure out 196 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,199 Speaker 1: some tools to be able to get grounded when they 197 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: are out in the community so that they can be 198 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: their best possible. So I would also imagine shown that 199 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: another thing that probably comes up or probably something that 200 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: you're on the lookout for when you're working with these 201 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: clients are ways that they're taking care of yourself, care 202 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: of themselves, right because you just mentioned like you know, 203 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: complete strangers will look to them to be able to 204 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: like galvanize the community and like we need to do 205 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: something about this. And so the only way you can 206 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 1: do that is if, of course you're taking care of yourself. 207 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: So what kinds of things are you, um, like encouraging 208 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: your clients to do in terms of like self care. Absolutely. So, 209 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: I think one of the underlying things that I tend 210 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 1: to have to break through with my clients is that 211 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: they're worthy of taking a break and that if they 212 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: take a break or if they take some time to 213 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: care for themselves, that they are not doing the community harm. Right, 214 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: So they sort of hold this sort of weight on 215 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: their shoulders where they're like, well, you know, I have 216 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: to keep going. If I do this, you know, then 217 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: something else may happen. Um. And So the way that 218 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: we sort of I bring them down to really strategizing 219 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: about self care is always start with reflecting on history, 220 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: history and culture. And I know you might be like, what, girl, 221 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: what do you mean you're reflecting on history? I asked 222 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: them to reflect on folks that they are inspired by 223 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: that doesn't have done powerful work, and we seek to 224 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: find out how did they take care of themselves and 225 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: how how did that work for them? And that's really 226 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: important because it helps to like reaffirm why it's important 227 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:02,839 Speaker 1: for them to take care of themselves. If we can't 228 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: find any narrative for them around what worked UM then 229 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: and then usually there's a story that follows about you 230 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: know why that movement wasn't sustainable so um so certainly 231 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: my breath. I always start folks with learning how to breathe. 232 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: I asked a question, so you think you know how 233 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: to breathe, and then you know they're like, of course, 234 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: I know how to breathe. Girl, I'm breathing right now. 235 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: I'm right here. But I teach them how to do 236 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: diaphragmatic or belly breathing right, how to get into their body. UM. 237 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: I teach them about UM some grounding techniques like drinking water, 238 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: like carrying things in their pocket to support them UM 239 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: and being able to calm in the midst of UH, 240 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: in the midst of the work that they're doing. But 241 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: I also work with them on like scheduling time and 242 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: for themselves. So the activists has might have several actions 243 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: to do, or the tenured faculty that's doing participatory research 244 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: may feel like they, you know, they're scheduled this book 245 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: to capacity with all of these outputs UM, and so 246 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: I work with them that sort of find the time 247 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: and redefining like what time looks like for them to 248 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: commit to themselves. So oftentimes there's like this misconception that, oh, 249 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: I have to take like a full on spy day. Um, 250 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: it's gonna cost me, however, many hundreds of dollars, and 251 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: I don't have that, And so we demystify those concepts 252 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: of self care being something that costs a whole lot 253 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: of money, and we simplify it to actually, like, no, 254 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: it's let's schedule in time for lunch. Let's you know, 255 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: figure out a way where you can do use use 256 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: this app to help you do some meditation or just 257 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: taking a walk, right, And so scheduling the time out 258 00:15:54,640 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: really helps to helps folks to really get reconnected to themselves. So, Shana, 259 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: I'd really like to hear more about, like the healing 260 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: circles that you do as a part of your work. 261 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: Can you share more about what that looks like and 262 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: how those are youthful? Absolutely so. UM. The the initiative 263 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: here in the city that I've established is called Healing 264 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: Be More Activists, And essentially what it is is it's 265 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: two and a half hours on every month that's free 266 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: to activists in the community UM and partnership with other 267 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: black organizations. The spaces are specifically for black and brown 268 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: change makers, activists and advocates. So the first like, we 269 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: do a check in, right, folks are getting to know 270 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: each other. Reconnecting is usually like a mini community or 271 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: family reunion. So we do a check in where folks 272 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: are are practicing, naming their feelings, getting into the moment, 273 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: and practicing breath. Um, there is a movement aspect that's 274 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: infused into the experience. So UM one of the ones 275 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: that's coming up here and February, they're gonna start with 276 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: some yoga and they're gonna have a forty five minute 277 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: yoga session that's gonna be centered in them returning to 278 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: their bodies and affirming the powerful work that they're doing, 279 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: but honoring themselves beyond the work that they're doing. Right, 280 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: like that your worthiness isn't associated only with the work 281 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: that you do for community. And then they eat, right, 282 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 1: so we break bread. Um, everybody gets to eat for free. 283 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: It's dinner included. And while we break bread, while we 284 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: are connecting over food, we are dissecting and reflecting. Um 285 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: in the sacred space, some of the deep seated issues 286 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: that they've presented, they'd like to explore. So I surveyed 287 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: UM activists and change makers here in the city of Baltimore, 288 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: And I asked them, like, what are the things that 289 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: you feel like you are struggling with, what are the 290 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: things that you wish you knew, what are the things 291 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:55,959 Speaker 1: that you need? And then we took that data and 292 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: we sort of infused it into the experience. So like 293 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: the next UM healing space will be we'll be talking 294 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 1: about how oftentimes the narratives of pain UM have been 295 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: infused into their personal identity and how to do the 296 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 1: healing work, but changing the pain story into a story 297 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: of transformation, so that you're not doing social justice work 298 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 1: from a place of pain, but from a place of 299 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: love UM And and yeah, so those things that sort 300 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: of happens on a on a monthly basis here in 301 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: the city. It is a new initiative that I'm really 302 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: really excited about because the support that we've gotten in 303 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: the city has allowed us to do it for free. 304 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: Nice and it sounds like an incredibly powerful experience, Like 305 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,239 Speaker 1: I definitely have heard more talk about, you know, like 306 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: not having to have your narrative be wound up with pain, 307 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: but how can you then use it to, like you mentioned, 308 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: be transformational. Yeah, I mean, because the truth of the 309 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: marriage joy is that usually about a hundred percent of 310 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 1: the time, like the experiences that activists are are navigating through, 311 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: they're listening to and honoring the pulse of community, right, 312 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: but they're also dealing with their own family challenges, you know, 313 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: like their own experiences, and often come come to time 314 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: have to come to terms with are they going to 315 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,479 Speaker 1: utilize their platforms solely for the initiatives of community or 316 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: are they going to be able to honor themselves. I 317 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: can't tell you how many um of the folks that 318 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: I'm serving have, you know, have they had their own 319 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: sort of personal family tragedies that they don't talk about, 320 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,399 Speaker 1: They don't mention until they've been sort of nourished and 321 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,719 Speaker 1: nurtured into let's sort of build community in a village 322 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: around you so that you're not coping with this um 323 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: and a silo. Yeah, And that kind of makes me 324 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: think of, you know, like, just like anything else could 325 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: be used as a way of avoiding these other issues 326 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: in our lives, it feels like maybe activism could also 327 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: be one of those things. Right, Like, it feels very 328 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: important to throw yourself into into this kind of work, 329 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 1: but it can also, I would imagine, separate you from 330 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 1: the other issues that you do have going on in 331 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,959 Speaker 1: your life. Absolutely, And I think it goes both ways. 332 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,920 Speaker 1: Right where you're not you're not dealing with your personal stuff, 333 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: or you know you are, you're really sort of this, 334 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: I would just say, just disengaged even in the work 335 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: that you're doing because of it, So you're never present, 336 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: not in the community aspect or in your personal life. 337 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: It's true, it's it's it can function as a drug 338 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: just like anything else. You can function like an addiction, right, right. 339 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: So another important part of the work that you do 340 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: is to train other mental health professionals about how racism 341 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: impacts the work that they do as therapists. So can 342 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: you talk more about how you got into this work 343 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: and maybe share some topics that you discussed in these trainings. 344 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 1: It sounds very, very interesting. Absolutely, So I would say 345 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: that I got to this I had to be reminded, 346 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: I had to be continually pushed into having these conversations, 347 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: I would say, because it showed up in two ways. 348 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: One way was so you remember I mentioned the um 349 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: the Healing Spaces that I held in the city of 350 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: Baltimore the first time for activists that sort of led 351 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 1: me to established the initiatives. And so at the end 352 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 1: of that, you know, all of the folks that were 353 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 1: participating in these healing spaces were talking about their horrible 354 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: experiences with therapy and how you know they're not gonna 355 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: go and talk to some white woman or a black 356 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 1: woman that doesn't know that they're black. And that was 357 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: you know, some of the recurring theme that would come 358 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: up as well as and just in my professional setting, 359 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: like I have these experiences where I had colleagues that 360 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: were well meaning UM white professionals who you know, maybe 361 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: they're sitting across from a young black boy or a 362 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: black girl who who disclosest to them that they wished 363 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,879 Speaker 1: they were white, and and the therapist sort of freezes, 364 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: doesn't know where to go from that space. UM you know, 365 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 1: allows the child to continue to express these um uh 366 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: manifestations that really internalized UM um inferiority and self hatred 367 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: and UM does nothing with it. Like I literally had 368 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: an experience where our colleague of mine had that experience 369 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: with a client came to me for support and console right, 370 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: and so I shared with her some strategies that she 371 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: could use UM gave her like a book to read, 372 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: and UM sought out training that didn't exist for her 373 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 1: to be able to redefine or we um to figure 374 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: out what powerful and healthy next steps would be for 375 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: her client. And she became so overwhelmed and disillusioned with 376 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: the concept of the fact that she could be perpetuating racism, 377 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 1: that whiteness was a thing, that her white privilege could 378 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: somehow be harming her client, that she became she lost herself, 379 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 1: I would say, in the shame and guilt and did 380 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: nothing like she never readdressed those topics, and so that 381 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: child continued to exhibit these topics that at the end 382 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: of the day I ended up having to like go 383 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: above and beyond to figure out a ways to effectively 384 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: and ethically address those things. So though that those situations 385 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: and my professional experience UM really left me in a 386 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: space of fury, um and fuels a lot of the 387 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: what happens in the training space. So you you asked 388 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: me to talk a little bit about what happens in 389 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: the training and what kind of topics were exploring exploring 390 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,639 Speaker 1: and so oftentimes where we start is we unpack this 391 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: concept of race. I say Ray explicitly that if you 392 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: folks aren't going are not going to be okay with 393 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: being uncomfortable, then the training space UM with me isn't 394 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: the space for them, right that it's gonna be a 395 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,919 Speaker 1: space of growth of UM. I try to center it 396 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: also around and like not shaming folks for their their 397 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: UM ignorance or you know, the experiences that they've had 398 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: where they thought that they were doing the right thing 399 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,120 Speaker 1: and and centering ourselves UM in mindfulness and using mind 400 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: body medicine to support us and being able to stay present. 401 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: But we unpack like different scenarios where I'm asking clinicians 402 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: like how would you handle this very same scenario that 403 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: I found myself with my colleague, or what does it 404 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: look like when these topics of race UM, white supremacy 405 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: or white UH privilege sort of show up um in 406 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: UM and leadership and we unpack those folks become really 407 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: really uncomfortable, and then I share with them some concepts 408 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: around black psychology, liberation psychology, and ways that we can 409 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: apply those concepts too, and those strategies and frameworks in 410 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: a way that could help them better serve their client. 411 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 1: And so generally, like what is the outcome from your 412 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: training because of course you know it will take more 413 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: than one training for somebody to really get it UM. 414 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: But I am curious about like the kind of feedback 415 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: that you get and like how people then may be 416 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: able to continue to work with you, or like what 417 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: kind of you know, like what is the pattern. Then 418 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: after they've completed maybe this first training absolutely so, at 419 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: the end of the training and they have gone through, 420 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,959 Speaker 1: they do some personal and self reflection where they are 421 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: really doing a self assessment about what their biases are 422 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: expressing UM really honestly with themselves, what areas they feel 423 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: like they need to do some healing for themselves in 424 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: order to show up best for clients. And then there 425 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: where they dissect there the frameworks that they're using in 426 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: their practice UM and try to identify how whiteness may 427 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: be perpetuated within those frameworks or what's missing, and they 428 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: they sort of outline with their questions are I provide 429 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: a resource guide of different books and videos and things 430 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 1: that folks can can can utilize. But I also UM 431 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: find myself working more long term with larger institutions where 432 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: I have a series called Liberation Focused Healing where I'm 433 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 1: really literally supporting UM supporting teams of clinicians and dissecting 434 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:32,120 Speaker 1: these topics UM, doing case studying, case management, um, UM, 435 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: applying these these themes. And I'm doing clinical supervision UM 436 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: for trailblazing clinicians that are ready to really sort of 437 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: unpack the stuff and figure out how to show up 438 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: in a different way. But I always sort of share 439 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: with them that, like, you have to do your own 440 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: healing work as well in order to effectively hold space UM. 441 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: And that's it's an ongoing thing, Like none of us 442 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: are ever done, you know, like no matter if you 443 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: are a person of call, are a black person, or 444 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 1: if you are a person of privilege, a white privilege, 445 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: you're a white person. Like we all have work to 446 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: do because we've all been negatively impacted by racism or 447 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: white supremacy in America. Ante Siana, you make it clear 448 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: in your work that there is a difference between the 449 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 1: things that you teach in terms of like being anti 450 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: racist versus liberation focus. So can you talk more about 451 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: what that difference is? Absolutely so like for so, it's 452 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: really important for folks to understand the racism is systemic, right, 453 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: and so it shows up um in every aspect and 454 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: every entity and every institution that we interface with. And 455 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 1: so for me to say that I am an anti 456 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: racist social worker, right, that would mean that I am 457 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: doing work beyond the couch to try to seek to 458 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: dismantle the institution that perpetuate these experiences of um of 459 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: black pain. Right. Whereas to say that I'm liberation focused, 460 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: that then informs how I'm engaging my clients on the 461 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: couch like and what strategies, what methods, what frameworks am 462 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 1: I using to support them and being able to return 463 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: to a sense of freedom or to find a sense 464 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: of freedom that really honors their existence and experiences in America. 465 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Yeah, so it sounds like more 466 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 1: like strengths focused, strengths focused, but from a framework that 467 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:35,200 Speaker 1: is honoring their their blackness. UM. To be anti racist 468 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: might mean that I am working on policy or advocating 469 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: or for policy or advocating for change in the way 470 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: that that academic institution trains other social workers. Right. But 471 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: for me to say that I am liberation focused might 472 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: mean that the way that I'm engaging my client is 473 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: gonna be Um, how am I going to support them 474 00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: in establishing a strategy that aren't recognizes the fact that 475 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: they're interfacing with these racist, racist environments. So that's where 476 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: the black um psycho psychological framework sort of comes in. Like, 477 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: am I looking at this from the context of the 478 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: black person in their environment? Got you? Got you? So, 479 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: like I've talked about before, you know, this is incredibly 480 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,719 Speaker 1: important work that you do, but I can also imagine 481 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: that it can be like exhausting and frustrating. Like just 482 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: even sometimes having conversations, you know, with colleagues on Facebook 483 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: like will leave you drained. So I can imagine like 484 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,479 Speaker 1: doing this work more directly the way you are, we'll 485 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: leave you even more exhausted and frustrating. So how like 486 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: do you take care of yourself? And like what other 487 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: suggestions might you have for other therapists or other activists 488 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: who are doing some of this work to take care 489 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: of themselves while doing it? Absolutely it gets real. Okay, 490 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: So I have some rules for myself about engaging on 491 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: social media specifically, and that is that I only you 492 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: know that I that I only engage if I feel 493 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 1: like I have a solid resource where I'll be able 494 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: to give them. I really try to be really intentional 495 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: about like, Okay, here's a resource, and then I disengaged 496 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: like I give the resource and I walk away. If 497 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: folks want more, they can reach out. UM. But I 498 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: also limit my time on social media, so like, if 499 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: I see someone that continued that's continually posting like horrendous 500 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: things that I feel like are damaging to my psyche, Um, 501 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to unfollow and the delete right. UM. When 502 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,719 Speaker 1: it comes to how I just take care of myself 503 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: in general, I mean I wake up and walk into 504 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: my day in um and a rhythm or ritual. Right, 505 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: So I'll wake up to prayer. You know, I'm listening 506 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: to Oprah and depact Chopra's meditation on Pandora. You know, 507 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: I am um drinking and sipping my tea as I'm 508 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: walking walking through my day. I and sitting in meditation 509 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: and creating my day using visualization to keep me grounded 510 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: and honestly joy Like, I only work a couple of 511 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: days out of the week because it's really intense when 512 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: I do work. So I'm working two and a half 513 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: or three days out of the week, and then the 514 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: rest of the time, I'm committing to being with family 515 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: and UM, to being with family and UH and rejuvenating 516 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: myself or doing nothing. It might mean doing absolutely nothing UM. 517 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: And then the last thing I would say is like 518 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: I tried to really get away and unplug grant UM, 519 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: get being with my sister's UM sister circles within the 520 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: community and village UM. And so the way that I 521 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: would say that, I would encourage other therapists, other activists, UM, 522 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: just listeners to really sort of pour in. I mean, 523 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: of course, you know, I'm a mind body medicine practitioner, 524 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: so I'm like, explore mindful nash y'oll, you know, be alone, 525 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 1: spend time alone, get inside solitude, focus on your breathing, 526 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: explore meditation, UM, try yoga, try che gone, try type 527 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: cheek UM, do it from UM your YouTube channel. If 528 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 1: you can't, you know, go to a class UM. But 529 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: also like figuring out really simple ways to infuse mindfulness 530 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: or ways to be UM intentional into your day. So 531 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: an example might be so like in a few hours, 532 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to UM unplug and I'm just going to 533 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: sit and focus on my breathing for a couple of minutes. 534 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: Or I'm just gonna drink my tea with my eyes 535 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: closed and listen to some some tunes. So scheduling time 536 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: to really reconnect um. And then the last thing that 537 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: I could that that comes to mind in the moment 538 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: is connecting to community. Like I really feel like central 539 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: to the healing and well being of us as black 540 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: and brown people is um, reconnecting to each other offline, 541 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 1: So like go just spending time together, UM talking, going 542 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: to community events that are celebratory that allow for space 543 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: for developing genuine relationships. Um. Like that has been sort 544 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: of my saving grace. Those all sound like amazing strategy, Shanna. 545 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: And I really like how you infuse so many different 546 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: kinds of modalities into your work, like the cheekong and 547 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: the yoga and the mindfulness. Like I think, you know, 548 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: you can get a little bit of everything. It sounds 549 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: like in working with you in your practice, I try, 550 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, you might do some cheekong in the middle. 551 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: It might be like okay, so we're gonna breathe because 552 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: you're not breathing. Yeah. Um. And I mean also humor, 553 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: I mean joy, Like we need to laugh, like seriously, 554 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: this is so heavy, I mean, if we need to, 555 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: Like who is it? There's somebody that I follow on 556 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: Facebook and sometimes I just go to his Facebook page 557 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: because he's a comedian, and I just pushed Platt, what's 558 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: the keV on tab on stage? I figured that's who 559 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: you were talking about. Sometimes you just have to laugh. 560 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: And I we also infused like those sort of UM 561 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,439 Speaker 1: comic relief into all of the work that I'm doing, 562 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: So you know, yeah, I pay attention, though sometimes it 563 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: just sneaks sneaks with you. It's time, it's time to 564 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: get goal and just right. So you have mentioned some 565 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: incredible you know, kinds of modalities and different things, and 566 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: I'm sure people are going to want like some resources 567 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: for like how they can find out more about what 568 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 1: you're talking about. So what are some of your favorite 569 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,239 Speaker 1: resources for these things you mentioned, like the mindfulness and 570 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: the anti racism work and the liberation focused work, Like, 571 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: what are some of your favorite resources that people may 572 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: want to check out? Yes, so okay, so a national 573 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,439 Speaker 1: sort of resource for everybody, like no matter where you are, 574 00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: like checking out the Emotional Emancipation Circles UM. It's an 575 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 1: initiative by the Community Healing Network and the Association of 576 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: Black Psychologists and oftentimes these are free healing spaces for 577 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: people of color to do UM to get to to 578 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: do this unpacking around UM. The cultural trauma and the 579 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: waste space trauma that we've been enduring UM and so 580 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,359 Speaker 1: you know, Joy, I'll make sure that I share that 581 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 1: with you UM and and on their website they actually 582 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: have like a self care toolkit that they created specifically 583 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: for people of color and seeking to do some healing 584 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,720 Speaker 1: work for themselves. So that's one of my favorites UM. 585 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: Another would be UM there's a healing platform that I 586 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: actually established a couple of years ago, is called Evolved 587 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: UM Sacred Self Work to Heal a system and essentially 588 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 1: like it's like if folks are familiar with black board, 589 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: it's like healing on blackboard. So it's align in alignment 590 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 1: with the chakra system UM, which is an energetic UM 591 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: system that supports sort of the energy within your body. 592 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: It helps you to align with your your body and being. 593 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,800 Speaker 1: So on this platform you can do everything from yoga 594 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: and belly dancing to guide of meditations, to classes about 595 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:23,240 Speaker 1: how to UM change your pain story to a story 596 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,479 Speaker 1: of power and transformation, and all of this is being 597 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 1: curated on this website where you can just sort of 598 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: log in and get access. So that's pretty dope. UM 599 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: And that's a healing sister Dot com um there is 600 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: a super awesome and amazing system. Her name is Dr 601 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: Candice Nicole. She established a Black Lives Matter meditation for 602 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: healing Racial trauma UM on her website. Like you can 603 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,279 Speaker 1: literally like push play and get your meditation on and 604 00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: it's specifically curated for folks that are connected to and 605 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: identify as activists. So I think that it's all super 606 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 1: awesome and I think I have one more. You got 607 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 1: to run for one more join all right? Um the 608 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: Headspace app, so like I love apps, okay, and especially 609 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 1: for folks that are doing so much um so often, 610 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,240 Speaker 1: the the mindfulness app called Headspace is really awesome because 611 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,359 Speaker 1: then it will prompt you or remind you to take 612 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,280 Speaker 1: a breath. It will you can listen to a guide 613 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: that meditation like that last one or two minutes or 614 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: even ten minutes depending on where you are, and check it. 615 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: It's free, y'all. I mean, of course, they have like 616 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: an aspect where you do have to pay, but you 617 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,760 Speaker 1: get a pretty good amount on that application for free. 618 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: And so I think like those are those are some 619 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: of my most favorites. And of course the folks are 620 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,640 Speaker 1: in the bottomore area. The healing be more activists UM 621 00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: healing space like that it's free and it's it's about 622 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:06,479 Speaker 1: to go down. So yeah, So are there any other 623 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: events or other things that will be coming out of 624 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: your practice that you want to share with the audience? Yeah, okay, 625 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: so let's see. UM. So one of the other initiatives 626 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,320 Speaker 1: that I established specifically for the healing of black women 627 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: is called the Healing Sister Project, which is sacred spaces 628 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,879 Speaker 1: for UM for teaching women how to heal themselves using movement, meditation, 629 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: and sisterhood. So, like, I don't know when this is 630 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: gonna come out, but quarterly we have UM Sister Circle, 631 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 1: many retreats that occur that are either free ninety nine 632 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: or you know, up to thirty five dollars, and it's 633 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,720 Speaker 1: literally like a four hour healing space where sisters come together, 634 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: we eat, you're gonna do some movement, you might. The 635 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: next one we have coming up is Chee Gone. We 636 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: are exploring the black female form and you know where 637 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,759 Speaker 1: that came from, don't you? Don't you? That's she's gotta 638 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: have it. So we're unpacking some of the reality that 639 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 1: have to do with being a black woman in America. UM, 640 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: and everybody leaves with some really concrete tools to be 641 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 1: able to apply to them like their lives UM from 642 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: my mind body perspective, UM, hell and be more activists. Yeah, 643 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: we're doing a healing work. I think. I think that's 644 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 1: I think that's it. Yeah. I mean, and if any 645 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: therapists are listening and they're interested in doing some training, 646 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: you know, UM, connecting with me on my website is 647 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 1: the best way to Yeah, it's the best way for 648 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 1: us to move forward because I'm doing a couple of 649 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: trainings around specifically healing, being more activists, and the training 650 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: for folks that are interested in how to apply this 651 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: framework of UM liberation focus healing and what is your website? 652 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:59,400 Speaker 1: Say that's important. That's www dot SHAWNA. Murray Brown with 653 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: an E dot com and www dot hell a Sister 654 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: s I S t A dot com and any social 655 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 1: media handles you want to share. Yep, you can follow 656 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: me on Twitter at SHAWNA. M. Brown with an E 657 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: or on I g at Healer, Sister s R, s 658 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: t A and less but certainly not least. I have 659 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,719 Speaker 1: two Facebook pages. One is Kendrick Wallness UM and the 660 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: other SHAWNA. Murray Brown l C s WC when we 661 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,840 Speaker 1: have a Facebook group, y'all, it's already like Sisters in 662 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: the spot and it's the Healer Sister Project um so 663 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: with hashtag Heller Sister Nice. And all of this information, 664 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,320 Speaker 1: of course, will be in the show notes for everybody 665 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,919 Speaker 1: to find very easily. Yes, well, thank you so much 666 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 1: for spending some time with us today, Shawna. I really 667 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me joy, 668 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: You're welcome. I hope that y'all enjoyed that conversation as 669 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 1: much as I did it. Shauna is such an incredible sister. 670 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,839 Speaker 1: To learn more about her work and to check out 671 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,520 Speaker 1: the resources she mentioned, visit the show notes at Therapy 672 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com slash Session forty six. We'd 673 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,719 Speaker 1: love to hear your thoughts and feedback about the episode, 674 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 1: so please make sure to share them with us on 675 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 1: social media by using the hashtag tb G in session. 676 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 1: You can also tag our social media accounts. We're at 677 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,799 Speaker 1: Therapy for the Number four b Girls on Twitter and 678 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,880 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls on both Instagram and Facebook. 679 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: Remember that if you're looking for a therapist in your area, 680 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 1: be sure to check out the therapist directory that you 681 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: can find at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory. 682 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: And if you want a place to chat about the 683 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: episode with other listeners or discuss other topics relevant to you, 684 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,920 Speaker 1: join us over in the thrive Tribe, which is our 685 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 1: Facebook community. You can request to join at Therapy for 686 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: Black Girls dot com slash tribe. Please continue to share 687 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: your love for the podcast by sharing it in your 688 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,160 Speaker 1: instant stories on Twitter and texting those who should also 689 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,840 Speaker 1: check it out. If you listen on Apple Podcast, please 690 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: also consider leaving us a review. Thanks so much again 691 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,279 Speaker 1: for joining me this week. I'm looking forward to continuing 692 00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: this conversation with you all real soon. Take you care, 693 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:14,760 Speaker 1: I oftor Actor Actor