1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:28,116 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, Happiness Lab listeners, welcome back to our Happiness 2 00:00:28,116 --> 00:00:30,836 Speaker 1: Hot Take series, a whole season in which I call 3 00:00:30,876 --> 00:00:33,516 Speaker 1: out the bad happiness advice that I hear so often 4 00:00:33,556 --> 00:00:37,076 Speaker 1: on the internet. In today's Happiness hot Take, we're going 5 00:00:37,116 --> 00:00:40,836 Speaker 1: back to the Happiness Lab archives to tackle happiness misconception 6 00:00:40,916 --> 00:00:44,556 Speaker 1: that's so common it's even got its own hashtag hashtag 7 00:00:44,716 --> 00:00:47,516 Speaker 1: no regrets, the idea that we should stand by the 8 00:00:47,556 --> 00:00:50,476 Speaker 1: bad decisions we make with confidence, that we should ignore 9 00:00:50,516 --> 00:00:53,556 Speaker 1: all those pangs of remorse that don't feel so hot. Well, 10 00:00:53,636 --> 00:00:56,516 Speaker 1: today's throwback happiness hot take is that no regrets is 11 00:00:56,556 --> 00:00:59,036 Speaker 1: no way to live. And you'll see why in this 12 00:00:59,236 --> 00:01:01,916 Speaker 1: in case you missed it episode, I hope you enjoy it. 13 00:01:10,436 --> 00:01:13,556 Speaker 2: I'm going through a breakup right now, and so that's 14 00:01:14,636 --> 00:01:18,236 Speaker 2: there's a regret in choosing to be together, and there's 15 00:01:18,316 --> 00:01:20,196 Speaker 2: regret and also choosing to be a part. 16 00:01:20,556 --> 00:01:22,476 Speaker 1: We all replayed dumb things we did in the past. 17 00:01:22,796 --> 00:01:24,596 Speaker 3: I think a lot of my regrets comes from like 18 00:01:24,636 --> 00:01:27,356 Speaker 3: school work. Every school year comes around and I'm like, 19 00:01:27,396 --> 00:01:29,956 Speaker 3: this year, I'm gonna do better, and then like I don't. 20 00:01:30,156 --> 00:01:31,956 Speaker 1: Or fret about the things we didn't do. 21 00:01:32,276 --> 00:01:33,996 Speaker 3: I was afraid to come out for a long time. 22 00:01:33,996 --> 00:01:37,316 Speaker 3: To my parents, it was that fear of rejection, regardless 23 00:01:37,356 --> 00:01:40,316 Speaker 3: of whether they would have really rejected me. I was 24 00:01:40,476 --> 00:01:43,996 Speaker 3: like hiding myself for two other people. And that is 25 00:01:44,036 --> 00:01:45,356 Speaker 3: something that I regret a lot. 26 00:01:45,716 --> 00:01:48,036 Speaker 1: From time to time. Regret sets up shop in all 27 00:01:48,036 --> 00:01:50,916 Speaker 1: our heads. It makes us wonder about what we could have, 28 00:01:51,076 --> 00:01:53,716 Speaker 1: should have, or would have done differently. I'd done a 29 00:01:53,756 --> 00:01:56,116 Speaker 1: lot of mistakes, like I spent a lot of money, 30 00:01:56,236 --> 00:01:58,716 Speaker 1: I paid for a lot of people. I got used 31 00:01:58,716 --> 00:02:01,076 Speaker 1: by a lot of people, and I did not know 32 00:02:01,196 --> 00:02:04,436 Speaker 1: my worth. Our feelings of regret mostly kind of suck. 33 00:02:05,036 --> 00:02:07,476 Speaker 1: We can experience it as a mild pag a sort 34 00:02:07,516 --> 00:02:11,196 Speaker 1: of throbbing emotional toothache, but sometimes the anguish of regret 35 00:02:11,236 --> 00:02:14,356 Speaker 1: reduces us to tears or saddles us with grief that 36 00:02:14,476 --> 00:02:15,436 Speaker 1: lasts a lifetime. 37 00:02:16,076 --> 00:02:19,556 Speaker 4: I was in a relationship and it was very toxic. 38 00:02:19,756 --> 00:02:22,756 Speaker 4: I should have put my foot down way earlier, because 39 00:02:22,796 --> 00:02:24,756 Speaker 4: now it kind of affects me to this date, and 40 00:02:24,836 --> 00:02:26,756 Speaker 4: it's just like then, I could have prevented all of 41 00:02:27,076 --> 00:02:30,196 Speaker 4: these feelings from happening if I just would have left 42 00:02:30,236 --> 00:02:30,916 Speaker 4: it in the beginning. 43 00:02:31,276 --> 00:02:33,716 Speaker 1: And so it's natural to fantasize about a life without 44 00:02:33,716 --> 00:02:36,596 Speaker 1: this painful emotion, to strive to be without the burn 45 00:02:36,676 --> 00:02:39,636 Speaker 1: that comes from looking back. I mean, who needs regrets? 46 00:02:40,116 --> 00:02:41,676 Speaker 1: Hashtag no regrets. 47 00:02:42,116 --> 00:02:44,556 Speaker 3: I do not believe in regrets or have any regrets 48 00:02:44,556 --> 00:02:45,516 Speaker 3: in my life. 49 00:02:45,796 --> 00:02:46,716 Speaker 2: My mistakes are me. 50 00:02:48,956 --> 00:02:52,396 Speaker 1: But is the whole no regrets thing really right? I mean, 51 00:02:52,516 --> 00:02:55,276 Speaker 1: could it be possible that embracing regret is the key 52 00:02:55,356 --> 00:03:00,116 Speaker 1: to living a better, more authentic, and even a happier life. 53 00:03:00,596 --> 00:03:02,556 Speaker 1: Our minds are constantly telling us what to do to 54 00:03:02,596 --> 00:03:05,196 Speaker 1: be happy. But what if our minds are wrong? What 55 00:03:05,236 --> 00:03:07,636 Speaker 1: if our minds are lying to us, leading us away 56 00:03:07,716 --> 00:03:10,356 Speaker 1: from what will really make us happy. The good news 57 00:03:10,436 --> 00:03:12,596 Speaker 1: is that understanding the science of the mind can point 58 00:03:12,676 --> 00:03:15,476 Speaker 1: us all back in the right direction. You're listening to 59 00:03:15,476 --> 00:03:22,876 Speaker 1: the Happiness Lab with me, doctor Laurie Santis. 60 00:03:24,196 --> 00:03:28,036 Speaker 5: Hey, I'm Malcolm Glabo. Here's my regret. When I graduated 61 00:03:28,076 --> 00:03:30,196 Speaker 5: from college, I had this idea that I would spend 62 00:03:30,236 --> 00:03:32,756 Speaker 5: a year in Jamaica getting a graduate degree at the 63 00:03:32,836 --> 00:03:35,836 Speaker 5: University of West Indies. My instinct was that my early 64 00:03:35,916 --> 00:03:39,516 Speaker 5: twenties with a perfect moment to broaden my horizons, experience 65 00:03:39,556 --> 00:03:43,836 Speaker 5: a new culture, and take a risk instead, I moved 66 00:03:43,876 --> 00:03:44,836 Speaker 5: to Indiana. 67 00:03:45,196 --> 00:03:46,396 Speaker 2: Oh Man, I blew it. 68 00:03:47,396 --> 00:03:49,956 Speaker 1: Life is full of choices, forks in the road where 69 00:03:49,956 --> 00:03:52,796 Speaker 1: we have to pick one path or the other. Sometimes 70 00:03:52,796 --> 00:03:56,076 Speaker 1: we make those decisions under pressure, or with incomplete information, 71 00:03:56,396 --> 00:03:59,556 Speaker 1: or at times when we're not our calmest, most rational selves. 72 00:04:00,036 --> 00:04:02,836 Speaker 1: And sometimes once we begin to regret the path we've taken, 73 00:04:03,156 --> 00:04:06,036 Speaker 1: it's too late to turn around. That's how it was 74 00:04:06,076 --> 00:04:08,916 Speaker 1: for author and illustrator Liz Vosselyn is the child of 75 00:04:08,996 --> 00:04:11,316 Speaker 1: you European immigrants. Liz spend a lot of her youth 76 00:04:11,356 --> 00:04:13,316 Speaker 1: traveling back and forth to visit relatives. 77 00:04:13,756 --> 00:04:15,876 Speaker 6: I just have a lot of happy childhood memories there, 78 00:04:15,876 --> 00:04:17,876 Speaker 6: and it felt like a link to this bigger family 79 00:04:17,956 --> 00:04:19,996 Speaker 6: that I don't feel that I have in the US. 80 00:04:20,196 --> 00:04:23,556 Speaker 1: But with families, it's not always vacations and holiday get togethers. 81 00:04:23,876 --> 00:04:27,156 Speaker 1: There are sometimes emergencies and bereavements. 82 00:04:27,476 --> 00:04:30,636 Speaker 6: So my grandmother died when I was in my early twenties, 83 00:04:30,756 --> 00:04:34,076 Speaker 6: and my mom, who rarely shows emotion or asks for much, 84 00:04:34,516 --> 00:04:36,996 Speaker 6: asked me to go with her to pack up the house. 85 00:04:37,836 --> 00:04:40,916 Speaker 1: Liz dropped everything right. I mean, she wasn't going to 86 00:04:41,036 --> 00:04:43,356 Speaker 1: let down her mom at the very moment she needed 87 00:04:43,396 --> 00:04:45,276 Speaker 1: her presence and support the most. 88 00:04:45,476 --> 00:04:47,316 Speaker 6: And I said no. 89 00:04:48,236 --> 00:04:50,916 Speaker 1: Liz had just landed a great new consulting job, a 90 00:04:50,956 --> 00:04:53,596 Speaker 1: position she'd badly wanted and had worked hard to win. 91 00:04:54,116 --> 00:04:56,116 Speaker 6: I was like, I have so much going on at work. 92 00:04:56,156 --> 00:04:59,036 Speaker 6: I just can't take two weeks off for an international trip. 93 00:04:59,396 --> 00:05:01,636 Speaker 6: It's just too much for me to take on right now. 94 00:05:02,316 --> 00:05:05,236 Speaker 1: And so Liz's mom flew across the Atlantic to deal 95 00:05:05,276 --> 00:05:08,516 Speaker 1: with the death of her mother all alone. Decades later, 96 00:05:08,876 --> 00:05:12,596 Speaker 1: that decision still causes Liz tremendous anguish. 97 00:05:12,396 --> 00:05:14,876 Speaker 6: Like even now, I'm like starting to get tears in 98 00:05:14,916 --> 00:05:17,636 Speaker 6: my eyes because I think of my mom alone on 99 00:05:17,676 --> 00:05:20,676 Speaker 6: this eight hour plane ride to go pack up, like 100 00:05:20,756 --> 00:05:24,156 Speaker 6: her childhood and my childhood and our link to our family. 101 00:05:24,916 --> 00:05:27,796 Speaker 1: Though painful regrets like these are a creative spur for Liz. 102 00:05:28,516 --> 00:05:30,996 Speaker 1: Along with author Molly we Stuffy, she's part of a 103 00:05:31,076 --> 00:05:34,476 Speaker 1: duo known online as Lizen Molly. They're responsible for a 104 00:05:34,476 --> 00:05:37,476 Speaker 1: popular Instagram feed of illustrations that show how we can 105 00:05:37,516 --> 00:05:40,196 Speaker 1: deal with all kinds of painful feelings, the types of 106 00:05:40,236 --> 00:05:42,476 Speaker 1: things that we too often keep to ourselves. 107 00:05:42,876 --> 00:05:45,236 Speaker 6: There's just so much, especially when we talk about big 108 00:05:45,276 --> 00:05:48,076 Speaker 6: feelings that all of us are experiencing on a daily 109 00:05:48,156 --> 00:05:49,876 Speaker 6: basis that we don't share with people. 110 00:05:50,316 --> 00:05:52,636 Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan of Liz and Molly's work. I 111 00:05:52,676 --> 00:05:55,556 Speaker 1: share There's simple yet powerful cartoons with my students all 112 00:05:55,556 --> 00:05:58,716 Speaker 1: the time. They're not just poignant, clever and funny. They 113 00:05:58,756 --> 00:06:01,436 Speaker 1: also include lots of science back tips for dealing with 114 00:06:01,476 --> 00:06:04,916 Speaker 1: those big feelings. So you can imagine my excitement when 115 00:06:04,956 --> 00:06:06,756 Speaker 1: I heard that the duo we're also putting out a 116 00:06:06,796 --> 00:06:09,916 Speaker 1: new book. It's called Big Feelings, How to Be Okay 117 00:06:10,036 --> 00:06:12,596 Speaker 1: When Things Are Not Okay. The book gives advice for 118 00:06:12,676 --> 00:06:16,676 Speaker 1: navigating seven of our most painful negative emotions. The usual 119 00:06:16,756 --> 00:06:20,956 Speaker 1: emotional culprits things like sadness, anger, and even burnout. But 120 00:06:21,236 --> 00:06:23,996 Speaker 1: there's also one that doesn't get as much attention. You 121 00:06:24,076 --> 00:06:25,276 Speaker 1: guessed it. Regret. 122 00:06:26,196 --> 00:06:29,076 Speaker 6: Research shows that it's one of the most common emotions 123 00:06:29,076 --> 00:06:32,116 Speaker 6: that people feel. I think it's after love or something 124 00:06:32,196 --> 00:06:32,516 Speaker 6: like that. 125 00:06:32,996 --> 00:06:35,916 Speaker 1: Some studies estimate that over ninety percent of people report 126 00:06:35,956 --> 00:06:39,156 Speaker 1: having severe regret about some decision they've made in their lives. 127 00:06:39,516 --> 00:06:43,756 Speaker 1: Over ninety percent of people. That's basically everyone, and yet 128 00:06:43,836 --> 00:06:46,476 Speaker 1: one of the misconceptions about regret is that it's actually 129 00:06:46,516 --> 00:06:49,676 Speaker 1: even possible for us to live that hashtag no regrets life. 130 00:06:50,076 --> 00:06:53,356 Speaker 6: It's just a completely inaccurate view of the world. There 131 00:06:53,396 --> 00:06:56,076 Speaker 6: is no life in which you will have no regrets. 132 00:06:56,556 --> 00:07:00,396 Speaker 1: A second misconception goes something like this, Okay, so maybe 133 00:07:00,396 --> 00:07:04,076 Speaker 1: I can't have a perfectly hashtag no regrets existence, but 134 00:07:04,236 --> 00:07:06,916 Speaker 1: I'd definitely be able to have a hashtag mostly no 135 00:07:06,996 --> 00:07:09,756 Speaker 1: regrets life if only I could get every thing I want. 136 00:07:10,116 --> 00:07:11,996 Speaker 1: We assume that if we had the perfect job, in 137 00:07:12,036 --> 00:07:15,236 Speaker 1: a swanky house and an amazing partner, we'd never experience 138 00:07:15,316 --> 00:07:18,636 Speaker 1: that painful twinge of what if. But this too is 139 00:07:18,676 --> 00:07:20,756 Speaker 1: a spot where our minds are lying to us, and 140 00:07:20,836 --> 00:07:23,596 Speaker 1: part of that is because you can only choose one life. 141 00:07:24,076 --> 00:07:26,996 Speaker 1: Even if your current life path is mostly awesome, there's 142 00:07:27,036 --> 00:07:29,716 Speaker 1: probably something great out there in the universe that you're 143 00:07:29,756 --> 00:07:32,476 Speaker 1: not going to get a chance to experience another fork 144 00:07:32,516 --> 00:07:34,916 Speaker 1: in the road you could have chosen but didn't, And 145 00:07:34,956 --> 00:07:37,676 Speaker 1: sometimes we can't help but regret not taking it. 146 00:07:37,956 --> 00:07:40,316 Speaker 6: And we also have a tendency to put on rose 147 00:07:40,356 --> 00:07:43,876 Speaker 6: colored glasses when we consider that alternate path, especially in 148 00:07:43,956 --> 00:07:46,996 Speaker 6: moments when our current reality is a little harder. 149 00:07:47,636 --> 00:07:49,596 Speaker 1: I feel like we have a lot to learn about regret. 150 00:07:50,156 --> 00:07:52,196 Speaker 1: So I decided to call in an expert. 151 00:07:52,716 --> 00:07:54,716 Speaker 2: My name is Daniel Pink. I'm the author of the 152 00:07:54,796 --> 00:07:57,356 Speaker 2: Power of Regret, How looking backward moves us forward. 153 00:07:57,916 --> 00:08:01,116 Speaker 1: Daniel developed what he calls the World Regret Survey, which 154 00:08:01,116 --> 00:08:04,276 Speaker 1: collected the experiences of tens of thousands of people for 155 00:08:04,396 --> 00:08:07,076 Speaker 1: more than one hundred countries. It's one of the largest 156 00:08:07,156 --> 00:08:10,716 Speaker 1: databases of regrets ever. With all that data to draw on, 157 00:08:11,036 --> 00:08:12,876 Speaker 1: I was hoping that Daniel could give us a bit 158 00:08:12,916 --> 00:08:15,996 Speaker 1: of a crash course on regret, starting with a definition. 159 00:08:16,356 --> 00:08:17,876 Speaker 2: I think one way to start is that a regret 160 00:08:17,996 --> 00:08:20,036 Speaker 2: is an emotion, and is an emotion that makes us 161 00:08:20,036 --> 00:08:23,916 Speaker 2: feel bad, and it's emotion that arises from I think 162 00:08:23,956 --> 00:08:27,876 Speaker 2: some really fascinating and interesting powers of our brain. 163 00:08:28,636 --> 00:08:32,436 Speaker 1: Regret requires a few complicated and possibly unique cognitive abilities. 164 00:08:33,036 --> 00:08:35,476 Speaker 1: The first of these is the ability to accept blame. 165 00:08:36,316 --> 00:08:40,916 Speaker 1: Unlike other negative emotions, like say disappointment, regret requires agency. 166 00:08:41,516 --> 00:08:43,716 Speaker 1: We can only regret stuff that we caused. 167 00:08:44,516 --> 00:08:47,836 Speaker 2: You experience a regret because it's your fault. 168 00:08:48,476 --> 00:08:52,116 Speaker 1: Regret also requires the capacity to time travel. Regret forces 169 00:08:52,196 --> 00:08:54,476 Speaker 1: us to hop in a mental time machine and travel 170 00:08:54,516 --> 00:08:57,156 Speaker 1: back to some remembered event of the past, and once 171 00:08:57,196 --> 00:08:59,756 Speaker 1: we get there, our brains engage in a third impressive 172 00:08:59,796 --> 00:09:03,836 Speaker 1: cognitive feet what Daniel calls fabulousm. 173 00:09:03,436 --> 00:09:07,076 Speaker 2: We imagine making a different decision than we actually made. 174 00:09:07,196 --> 00:09:10,916 Speaker 2: And then what's even more crazy is that we negate 175 00:09:10,956 --> 00:09:14,156 Speaker 2: that experience. We get back in our time machine. We 176 00:09:14,396 --> 00:09:17,076 Speaker 2: arrive back in the present, and we now see a 177 00:09:17,116 --> 00:09:19,956 Speaker 2: present that is reconfigured because of this decision that we've 178 00:09:20,036 --> 00:09:20,876 Speaker 2: undone in the past. 179 00:09:21,516 --> 00:09:24,236 Speaker 1: And that's the final cognitive superpower we engage in when 180 00:09:24,236 --> 00:09:28,716 Speaker 1: feeling regret, what's known as counterfactual thinking. We create a new, 181 00:09:28,836 --> 00:09:32,196 Speaker 1: completely imaginary timeline that runs counter to the facts. 182 00:09:32,756 --> 00:09:35,756 Speaker 2: And there are two kinds of counterfactual thinking. One of 183 00:09:35,756 --> 00:09:38,996 Speaker 2: them is known as a downward counterfactual, so that is, 184 00:09:39,196 --> 00:09:40,996 Speaker 2: we imagine how things could have been worse. 185 00:09:41,756 --> 00:09:46,036 Speaker 1: Downward counterfactuals often involve the phrase well at least. So 186 00:09:46,316 --> 00:09:48,236 Speaker 1: let's say you miss your morning flight because you spent 187 00:09:48,276 --> 00:09:50,876 Speaker 1: too long getting ready. You might engage in a downward 188 00:09:50,876 --> 00:09:54,036 Speaker 1: counterfactual and say things like, well, at least there was 189 00:09:54,076 --> 00:09:56,716 Speaker 1: a later flight, or well, at least I didn't miss 190 00:09:56,716 --> 00:10:00,596 Speaker 1: my connection. Downward counterfactuals help us remember that it could 191 00:10:00,596 --> 00:10:03,996 Speaker 1: have been worse. They usually make us feel better but 192 00:10:04,316 --> 00:10:08,316 Speaker 1: less hopefully, we also engage in upward counterfactuals. 193 00:10:09,316 --> 00:10:11,916 Speaker 2: Is gouy you imagined things could have been better. 194 00:10:12,636 --> 00:10:16,596 Speaker 1: Upward counterfactuals make us say, if only, if only I 195 00:10:16,596 --> 00:10:19,036 Speaker 1: had spent a year in Jamaica, if only I had 196 00:10:19,036 --> 00:10:21,596 Speaker 1: helped my mom when she needed me, if only I 197 00:10:21,636 --> 00:10:24,596 Speaker 1: had done this thing or that thing differently, then everything 198 00:10:24,636 --> 00:10:26,876 Speaker 1: now would be so much better. I kind of regret 199 00:10:26,876 --> 00:10:27,756 Speaker 1: going to college. 200 00:10:27,836 --> 00:10:30,516 Speaker 6: I might have ended up, I don't know, working on 201 00:10:30,556 --> 00:10:31,556 Speaker 6: a flower farm. 202 00:10:31,916 --> 00:10:35,396 Speaker 1: Upward counterfactuals convince us that we've totally screwed things up. 203 00:10:35,916 --> 00:10:38,756 Speaker 1: They kind of make us feel like crap, and sadly, 204 00:10:38,996 --> 00:10:40,196 Speaker 1: they also dominate our. 205 00:10:40,116 --> 00:10:43,796 Speaker 7: Thoughts because I'm a lawyer, but it would have been 206 00:10:43,916 --> 00:10:47,996 Speaker 7: nice to find something that I'm passionate about an actress, 207 00:10:48,116 --> 00:10:50,316 Speaker 7: a science teacher, or I'm going to be a doctor 208 00:10:50,396 --> 00:10:52,316 Speaker 7: because I love health, nutrition and. 209 00:10:52,316 --> 00:10:55,276 Speaker 1: That kind of stuff. Researchers have looked at how often 210 00:10:55,316 --> 00:10:58,516 Speaker 1: we use each of these two kinds of counterfactuals, those 211 00:10:58,636 --> 00:11:02,156 Speaker 1: painful if only counterfactuals. They beat out the nicer feeling 212 00:11:02,156 --> 00:11:05,036 Speaker 1: of at least counterfactuals more than eighty percent of the time. 213 00:11:05,396 --> 00:11:08,556 Speaker 2: We are biased on this case, towards the negative, where 214 00:11:08,556 --> 00:11:12,676 Speaker 2: a biased toward the upward counterfactual toward the if onlies. 215 00:11:12,876 --> 00:11:15,116 Speaker 2: I think the interesting thing here, as we try to 216 00:11:15,196 --> 00:11:18,196 Speaker 2: sort out the puzzle is, you know, why would we 217 00:11:18,276 --> 00:11:21,596 Speaker 2: do that? Why would we be prone to do something 218 00:11:21,796 --> 00:11:24,076 Speaker 2: that makes us feel worse? And so there must be 219 00:11:24,196 --> 00:11:27,356 Speaker 2: something about this that confers a benefit. There must be 220 00:11:27,356 --> 00:11:29,556 Speaker 2: something about this that is adaptive. 221 00:11:30,436 --> 00:11:34,996 Speaker 1: So becoming happier must involve banishing those negative if onlies. Right, Well, 222 00:11:35,156 --> 00:11:37,676 Speaker 1: Daniel argues that wouldn't be such a smart thing to do. 223 00:11:38,196 --> 00:11:40,996 Speaker 2: I'm all for positivity, right, I'm all for positive emotions, 224 00:11:41,076 --> 00:11:43,236 Speaker 2: But here's the thing. I don't want to have only 225 00:11:43,316 --> 00:11:48,716 Speaker 2: positive emotions, because negative emotions serve a function. I think 226 00:11:48,756 --> 00:11:51,876 Speaker 2: that no regrets, the philosophy of no regrets, that you 227 00:11:51,956 --> 00:11:54,636 Speaker 2: should never look backward, you should always look forward, never 228 00:11:54,676 --> 00:11:59,396 Speaker 2: be negative, always be positive, is a profoundly bad idea. 229 00:11:59,836 --> 00:12:03,716 Speaker 2: I think it is an unhealthy recipe for living. I 230 00:12:03,716 --> 00:12:06,476 Speaker 2: think what we have to do is actually use our 231 00:12:06,516 --> 00:12:11,156 Speaker 2: regrets as information, as signal as not ignore them, not 232 00:12:11,356 --> 00:12:14,556 Speaker 2: wallowing them, but use them to help clarify what we 233 00:12:14,716 --> 00:12:16,836 Speaker 2: value and instruct us on how to live better. 234 00:12:17,636 --> 00:12:19,756 Speaker 1: When we get back from the break, we'll explore just 235 00:12:19,796 --> 00:12:21,676 Speaker 1: how we can use these if onlies to live a 236 00:12:21,676 --> 00:12:24,156 Speaker 1: better life. We'll see that regret can be a critical 237 00:12:24,156 --> 00:12:26,956 Speaker 1: signpost for the version of ourselves that we most want 238 00:12:26,956 --> 00:12:29,236 Speaker 1: to be, and we'll see that if we better understand 239 00:12:29,236 --> 00:12:32,076 Speaker 1: that ideal self, we can start to use this painful 240 00:12:32,076 --> 00:12:35,356 Speaker 1: emotion to live a healthier, happier and more authentic life. 241 00:12:36,356 --> 00:12:38,076 Speaker 1: That Happiness Lab will be right back. 242 00:12:46,716 --> 00:12:49,436 Speaker 8: I'm maya Shunker, host of a slight Change of Plans. 243 00:12:49,756 --> 00:12:52,276 Speaker 8: When I was around eleven years old, at summer music camp, 244 00:12:52,436 --> 00:12:56,276 Speaker 8: I had the biggest crush on another violinist, shinse Qesato. 245 00:12:56,716 --> 00:12:59,996 Speaker 8: He was cute, a total violent prodigy, and was really 246 00:12:59,996 --> 00:13:02,956 Speaker 8: funny too. I thought maybe he liked me as well, 247 00:13:03,036 --> 00:13:05,716 Speaker 8: but I could never tell for sure. One day, a 248 00:13:05,836 --> 00:13:08,756 Speaker 8: mutual friend of ours just asked me, point blank, Hey, 249 00:13:09,116 --> 00:13:09,956 Speaker 8: he like shinse Kay. 250 00:13:10,116 --> 00:13:12,476 Speaker 1: I think he might like you. Shinse Kay was. 251 00:13:12,476 --> 00:13:15,476 Speaker 8: An earshot, and I remember seeing him lightly smile in 252 00:13:15,516 --> 00:13:19,076 Speaker 8: response to her question. But even with that affirmation, I 253 00:13:19,196 --> 00:13:22,956 Speaker 8: was too embarrassed and said no, he could have been 254 00:13:22,956 --> 00:13:25,396 Speaker 8: my summer boyfriend. That I was too much of a wimp, 255 00:13:26,076 --> 00:13:28,796 Speaker 8: and it took me until I was nineteen to actually 256 00:13:28,796 --> 00:13:31,876 Speaker 8: have my first boyfriend, how different things could have been 257 00:13:31,916 --> 00:13:32,156 Speaker 8: for me. 258 00:13:33,196 --> 00:13:36,116 Speaker 1: Regrets can feel so troubling that we'd move mountains to 259 00:13:36,196 --> 00:13:37,476 Speaker 1: change things. 260 00:13:37,516 --> 00:13:39,276 Speaker 6: Like I would give a lot, a lot, a lot 261 00:13:39,276 --> 00:13:41,556 Speaker 6: of money to go back and make a different decision. 262 00:13:42,316 --> 00:13:45,116 Speaker 1: Liz Fossilene still hurts when she reflects on her grandmother's 263 00:13:45,156 --> 00:13:47,996 Speaker 1: death and not being there for her grieving mother, but 264 00:13:48,076 --> 00:13:50,956 Speaker 1: Liz argues that experiencing the painful, big feelings that come 265 00:13:50,996 --> 00:13:53,796 Speaker 1: with regret have helped her to learn what really matters 266 00:13:53,796 --> 00:13:54,156 Speaker 1: in life. 267 00:13:54,716 --> 00:13:58,316 Speaker 6: Remembering how painful it was. It wasn't just regret. It 268 00:13:58,396 --> 00:14:00,676 Speaker 6: was pain, It was shame, it was guilt, It was 269 00:14:00,716 --> 00:14:04,076 Speaker 6: all these sort of really really thorny, difficult feelings that 270 00:14:04,076 --> 00:14:08,356 Speaker 6: were welling inside me. But that really really clarified the 271 00:14:08,396 --> 00:14:10,156 Speaker 6: decisions I wanted to make going forward. 272 00:14:10,756 --> 00:14:13,396 Speaker 1: Liz tackled this idea in a recent Listen Molly comic 273 00:14:13,436 --> 00:14:17,196 Speaker 1: on Instagram. In it, a tiny, dejected looking figure looks 274 00:14:17,236 --> 00:14:20,956 Speaker 1: regretfully back into the past, but another similar figure turns 275 00:14:20,996 --> 00:14:23,556 Speaker 1: to the future and asks, what if I do things 276 00:14:23,556 --> 00:14:26,996 Speaker 1: differently from now on? Listen Molly then quote the author 277 00:14:27,156 --> 00:14:30,396 Speaker 1: Augustin Burrows to live in regret and change nothing else 278 00:14:30,436 --> 00:14:33,516 Speaker 1: in your life is to miss the entire point, and 279 00:14:33,596 --> 00:14:35,716 Speaker 1: the science shows that this is one of the big 280 00:14:35,756 --> 00:14:38,756 Speaker 1: benefits of being a creature that can feel regret. Our 281 00:14:38,796 --> 00:14:41,396 Speaker 1: regrets can help us to better understand the kind of 282 00:14:41,396 --> 00:14:44,236 Speaker 1: people we want to be, even if we're not currently 283 00:14:44,276 --> 00:14:47,156 Speaker 1: living up to those standards. Just as our brains are 284 00:14:47,156 --> 00:14:51,756 Speaker 1: good at simulating imaginary counterfactual situations, say asking out that 285 00:14:51,796 --> 00:14:54,316 Speaker 1: person we liked but never spoke to, or going to 286 00:14:54,356 --> 00:14:57,036 Speaker 1: graduate school in the Caribbean rather than working in Indiana, 287 00:14:57,596 --> 00:15:02,036 Speaker 1: so too can our brains simulate imaginary counterfactual versions of ourselves. 288 00:15:02,516 --> 00:15:04,716 Speaker 1: When I'm having a tough day as a professor, I 289 00:15:04,796 --> 00:15:07,276 Speaker 1: might simulate a version of Laurie who's an astronaut, or 290 00:15:07,316 --> 00:15:11,076 Speaker 1: a veterinarian or a beach bum. Perhaps more usefully, I 291 00:15:11,116 --> 00:15:13,476 Speaker 1: can also simulate a better version of Laurie, who does 292 00:15:13,476 --> 00:15:16,076 Speaker 1: it skip her workouts, who never spends too much time 293 00:15:16,116 --> 00:15:19,916 Speaker 1: on social media, and who always gets enough sleep. Research 294 00:15:19,916 --> 00:15:22,116 Speaker 1: has found that paying attention to the different kinds of 295 00:15:22,156 --> 00:15:25,036 Speaker 1: better selves we simulate can help us to make choices 296 00:15:25,116 --> 00:15:29,076 Speaker 1: that could ultimately make us happier. Back in the nineteen eighties, 297 00:15:29,196 --> 00:15:33,036 Speaker 1: Columbia University psychologist Tory Higgins proposed an idea he called 298 00:15:33,156 --> 00:15:37,076 Speaker 1: self discrepancy theory. It started from the observation that people 299 00:15:37,116 --> 00:15:40,116 Speaker 1: tend to compare their real actual self to two very 300 00:15:40,116 --> 00:15:43,156 Speaker 1: different kinds of model selves. The first is what he 301 00:15:43,236 --> 00:15:46,276 Speaker 1: called the ideal self. Your ideal self is the truest, 302 00:15:46,396 --> 00:15:50,116 Speaker 1: most authentic version of you. Ideal you ignores what society 303 00:15:50,196 --> 00:15:53,956 Speaker 1: says and fearlessly shoots for all your hopes, dreams, and aspirations. 304 00:15:54,836 --> 00:15:56,876 Speaker 1: Liz knew exactly what her ideal self. 305 00:15:56,636 --> 00:15:59,916 Speaker 6: Wanted, So this is the career that makes you come 306 00:15:59,956 --> 00:16:03,836 Speaker 6: alive versus the career that you feel pressured to pursue. 307 00:16:04,076 --> 00:16:07,996 Speaker 1: But we also fantasize about a second, counterfactual self, the 308 00:16:08,156 --> 00:16:12,356 Speaker 1: ought self. The ought self is all about duty, obligation, 309 00:16:12,636 --> 00:16:13,956 Speaker 1: and doing what's expected of you. 310 00:16:14,556 --> 00:16:18,756 Speaker 6: So for me, that is being a doctor. My parents 311 00:16:18,756 --> 00:16:22,596 Speaker 6: are both immigrants, academics. It was very much like doctor banker, lawyer. 312 00:16:22,796 --> 00:16:23,596 Speaker 6: That is success. 313 00:16:24,556 --> 00:16:26,716 Speaker 1: My own ought self is a me that never takes 314 00:16:26,716 --> 00:16:29,716 Speaker 1: a break. That Laurie is a perfectionist who has the 315 00:16:29,716 --> 00:16:32,876 Speaker 1: perfect body and great clothes and a flawlessly clean house. 316 00:16:33,636 --> 00:16:37,156 Speaker 1: But ideal Laurie has a completely different set of aspirations. 317 00:16:37,796 --> 00:16:40,076 Speaker 1: Ideal Laurie does want to do good work in the world, 318 00:16:40,316 --> 00:16:42,356 Speaker 1: but she also wants to take care of herself and 319 00:16:42,396 --> 00:16:43,156 Speaker 1: live her dreams. 320 00:16:43,556 --> 00:16:47,876 Speaker 6: And the ought self and ideal self sometimes require you 321 00:16:47,956 --> 00:16:49,676 Speaker 6: to pick two very different paths. 322 00:16:49,916 --> 00:16:53,356 Speaker 1: When Lizz's grandmother died far away across the ocean, ideal 323 00:16:53,476 --> 00:16:56,476 Speaker 1: is an autlis clashed about what to do next. Liz's 324 00:16:56,516 --> 00:16:59,196 Speaker 1: ideal self would have hands down risk upsetting her new 325 00:16:59,196 --> 00:17:01,516 Speaker 1: bosses to help her mom in that moment of grief. 326 00:17:01,876 --> 00:17:04,036 Speaker 6: The ideal self is someone who shows up for the 327 00:17:04,116 --> 00:17:07,036 Speaker 6: people that I care about in the moments that really matter. 328 00:17:07,676 --> 00:17:11,356 Speaker 1: But her aught self out. Rather than following her heart 329 00:17:11,356 --> 00:17:13,836 Speaker 1: and going to the airport, she headed to the office. 330 00:17:14,396 --> 00:17:18,396 Speaker 6: I really felt like I could not fail, especially early 331 00:17:18,436 --> 00:17:21,276 Speaker 6: on in this job, otherwise it would ruin my career forever. 332 00:17:21,436 --> 00:17:25,276 Speaker 6: And looking back now, I totally understand that that was ridiculous, 333 00:17:25,316 --> 00:17:28,116 Speaker 6: catastrophic thinking. And there are many examples of this in 334 00:17:28,116 --> 00:17:30,716 Speaker 6: my early twenties, like I cannot believe some of the 335 00:17:30,756 --> 00:17:31,596 Speaker 6: things I did. 336 00:17:31,756 --> 00:17:33,956 Speaker 1: Like the time Liz passed out and spent the night 337 00:17:33,956 --> 00:17:37,156 Speaker 1: in the hospital. The next morning, her aunt self convinced 338 00:17:37,196 --> 00:17:39,316 Speaker 1: her that she needed to go to work anyway. 339 00:17:39,276 --> 00:17:43,156 Speaker 6: And I looked terrible, and my boss asked what had happened, 340 00:17:43,476 --> 00:17:45,436 Speaker 6: and I briefly mentioned that I had been in the er, 341 00:17:45,596 --> 00:17:47,956 Speaker 6: and he just stared at me and was like, you 342 00:17:48,116 --> 00:17:51,036 Speaker 6: need to go home. It's not okay that you are here. 343 00:17:51,356 --> 00:17:53,596 Speaker 6: But again, it was a similar compulsion of like, I 344 00:17:53,716 --> 00:17:56,076 Speaker 6: have to be present, I have to be showing up. 345 00:17:56,516 --> 00:17:59,156 Speaker 1: So, given that we have these two different imaginary versions 346 00:17:59,196 --> 00:18:02,636 Speaker 1: of ourselves on our shoulders, each screaming different things, which 347 00:18:02,636 --> 00:18:05,636 Speaker 1: one should we listen to? Well Tory Huggins found that 348 00:18:05,676 --> 00:18:08,236 Speaker 1: ignoring either of these voices doesn't feel great in the 349 00:18:08,236 --> 00:18:11,436 Speaker 1: short term. If Liz had flown to Europe, she'd probably 350 00:18:11,476 --> 00:18:13,516 Speaker 1: have worried about her job as soon as the airplane 351 00:18:13,596 --> 00:18:16,196 Speaker 1: left the tarmac. But research shows that when it comes 352 00:18:16,196 --> 00:18:18,876 Speaker 1: to long term regrets, the severe kind that give us 353 00:18:18,916 --> 00:18:22,116 Speaker 1: anguish years after the fact, they're much more likely to 354 00:18:22,116 --> 00:18:24,636 Speaker 1: stem from ignoring the person we ideally want to be. 355 00:18:25,316 --> 00:18:28,356 Speaker 6: If you pursue the path that brings you closer to 356 00:18:28,396 --> 00:18:30,676 Speaker 6: your ideal self, you tend to be happier. But if 357 00:18:30,716 --> 00:18:35,316 Speaker 6: confronted with, hey, this is the job that really sings 358 00:18:35,316 --> 00:18:37,956 Speaker 6: to my soul, versus this is the job that everyone 359 00:18:37,996 --> 00:18:40,396 Speaker 6: has expected me to take, but the thought of taking 360 00:18:40,436 --> 00:18:43,916 Speaker 6: it actually fills me with a deep existential dread. You 361 00:18:43,956 --> 00:18:45,836 Speaker 6: should go with the ideal self job. 362 00:18:46,836 --> 00:18:48,956 Speaker 1: It may sound grim, but people at the very end 363 00:18:48,996 --> 00:18:52,596 Speaker 1: of life bear out this observation. Palliative nurse Brownie Ware 364 00:18:52,676 --> 00:18:55,516 Speaker 1: had years of experience living with patients in their final weeks, 365 00:18:55,876 --> 00:18:58,716 Speaker 1: and she repeatedly witnessed the pain and anguish of their regrets. 366 00:18:59,236 --> 00:19:02,356 Speaker 1: I wouldn't wish it on anyone, she once said. Mood 367 00:19:02,396 --> 00:19:04,676 Speaker 1: by their stories and hopeful to share the wisdom she'd 368 00:19:04,716 --> 00:19:07,116 Speaker 1: gained from her patients, she wrote a best selling book 369 00:19:07,116 --> 00:19:10,316 Speaker 1: called The Top Five Regrets of the Dying. All of 370 00:19:10,356 --> 00:19:12,756 Speaker 1: the top five regrets wear shares in her book involved 371 00:19:12,756 --> 00:19:15,876 Speaker 1: disappointing the ideal self rather than the odd self. The 372 00:19:15,956 --> 00:19:18,476 Speaker 1: dying regret not being emotionally available to their friends and 373 00:19:18,476 --> 00:19:21,516 Speaker 1: loved ones, being too devoted to proving themselves at work, 374 00:19:21,836 --> 00:19:24,796 Speaker 1: and caring too much about what other people think. Social 375 00:19:24,796 --> 00:19:27,636 Speaker 1: psychologist Tom Gilovich and Shy david I did a more 376 00:19:27,636 --> 00:19:30,956 Speaker 1: empirically based survey of long term regrets. They studied a 377 00:19:31,036 --> 00:19:34,276 Speaker 1: very different cohort of people, not the terminally ill, but 378 00:19:34,396 --> 00:19:37,276 Speaker 1: everyone from college students to residents. In an old age 379 00:19:37,276 --> 00:19:40,116 Speaker 1: home people's regrets about not living up to the person 380 00:19:40,156 --> 00:19:43,556 Speaker 1: the ideally wanted to be far outnumbered their regrets about 381 00:19:43,556 --> 00:19:45,556 Speaker 1: not living up to what they ought to do to 382 00:19:45,596 --> 00:19:49,716 Speaker 1: please bosses, neighbors, or the wider society. Findings like these 383 00:19:49,756 --> 00:19:52,196 Speaker 1: have shaped how Liz now listens to her two different 384 00:19:52,236 --> 00:19:53,436 Speaker 1: counterfectual selves. 385 00:19:53,796 --> 00:19:55,716 Speaker 6: One I'm faced with something, and when I have this 386 00:19:55,756 --> 00:19:57,876 Speaker 6: little voice within me that says like, well, but work 387 00:19:57,996 --> 00:20:00,596 Speaker 6: is really busy this week, I'm like, no, remember the 388 00:20:00,636 --> 00:20:03,556 Speaker 6: pain that you're trying to avoid in the future. Just 389 00:20:03,636 --> 00:20:07,116 Speaker 6: put that sort of perfectionist self to the side and 390 00:20:07,196 --> 00:20:09,956 Speaker 6: go show up, because that's you're going to remember in 391 00:20:09,996 --> 00:20:12,876 Speaker 6: ten years. I truly do not know what I was 392 00:20:12,956 --> 00:20:15,356 Speaker 6: doing at work that week. I can tell you nothing 393 00:20:15,436 --> 00:20:18,116 Speaker 6: about the project I was working on, about how it 394 00:20:18,156 --> 00:20:20,676 Speaker 6: turned out. It just wasn't as important in the long run. 395 00:20:22,236 --> 00:20:25,236 Speaker 1: Liz is now convinced that past regrets are great learning points. 396 00:20:25,836 --> 00:20:29,036 Speaker 1: That recent listen Molly cartoon I mentioned also included an 397 00:20:29,036 --> 00:20:33,876 Speaker 1: important quote. Regrets can be burned as fuel, but regrets 398 00:20:33,996 --> 00:20:36,836 Speaker 1: burn hot, and we can only become better people if 399 00:20:36,876 --> 00:20:40,316 Speaker 1: we're committed to directly embracing our regrets and the pain 400 00:20:40,356 --> 00:20:41,876 Speaker 1: they cause, because. 401 00:20:41,636 --> 00:20:43,156 Speaker 2: I think when we do that, there's a lot of 402 00:20:43,196 --> 00:20:46,276 Speaker 2: evidence that it is a powerfully transformative emotion. 403 00:20:47,356 --> 00:20:49,076 Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab will be right back. 404 00:20:56,876 --> 00:21:00,156 Speaker 9: I'm Jacob Goldstein. I host a podcast called What's Your Problem? 405 00:21:00,396 --> 00:21:03,436 Speaker 9: And when I was in my twenties, I regretted pretty 406 00:21:03,516 --> 00:21:06,436 Speaker 9: much everything all the time. It got to the point 407 00:21:06,476 --> 00:21:08,676 Speaker 9: where anytime I had to make a big decision, I 408 00:21:08,676 --> 00:21:11,596 Speaker 9: would be paralyzed by the fear that I would regret 409 00:21:11,716 --> 00:21:17,516 Speaker 9: whatever choice I made. It was like pre regret pregret. Eventually, 410 00:21:17,796 --> 00:21:20,636 Speaker 9: I mostly got past it. I came to trust myself more, 411 00:21:20,756 --> 00:21:24,196 Speaker 9: feel better about my decisions. Regret, thankfully is no longer 412 00:21:24,236 --> 00:21:26,476 Speaker 9: a big part of my life, but I guess I 413 00:21:26,556 --> 00:21:29,596 Speaker 9: do still regret a little that I spent so many 414 00:21:29,716 --> 00:21:32,116 Speaker 9: years of my life living in fear of regret. 415 00:21:33,236 --> 00:21:35,516 Speaker 2: And one of the interesting things about regret is that 416 00:21:35,556 --> 00:21:39,716 Speaker 2: people want the instruction that comes from regret. They just 417 00:21:39,756 --> 00:21:43,596 Speaker 2: don't want the bad feeling. And that's not the offer 418 00:21:43,676 --> 00:21:44,636 Speaker 2: that's on the table here. 419 00:21:45,516 --> 00:21:48,236 Speaker 1: If we can tough out the discomfort. Author Daniel Pink 420 00:21:48,276 --> 00:21:50,276 Speaker 1: thinks we can learn valuable lessons from our. 421 00:21:50,276 --> 00:21:54,076 Speaker 2: Regrets if we get past this kind of fog machine 422 00:21:54,116 --> 00:21:56,396 Speaker 2: that we should never have regrets, that we should always 423 00:21:56,436 --> 00:22:00,356 Speaker 2: be positive. We can look at this emotion and say 424 00:22:00,716 --> 00:22:03,836 Speaker 2: it's telling us something. It's teaching us something, And if 425 00:22:03,876 --> 00:22:07,556 Speaker 2: we actually think about our regrets differently, we can enlist 426 00:22:07,636 --> 00:22:11,156 Speaker 2: them to lead a better and more fulfilling, more satisfying life. 427 00:22:11,756 --> 00:22:14,916 Speaker 1: Daniel's extensive survey of regrets around the world taught him 428 00:22:14,916 --> 00:22:16,956 Speaker 1: that the only way to learn from this painful emotion 429 00:22:17,196 --> 00:22:19,636 Speaker 1: is to let ourselves feel it. As much as we'd 430 00:22:19,676 --> 00:22:22,156 Speaker 1: like to, we can't fast forward through the painful parts 431 00:22:22,156 --> 00:22:22,876 Speaker 1: of our regrets. 432 00:22:23,156 --> 00:22:25,676 Speaker 2: The reason they make us do better is because they 433 00:22:25,716 --> 00:22:26,916 Speaker 2: make us feel worse. 434 00:22:26,996 --> 00:22:29,276 Speaker 1: And once you experience the pain, you can commit to 435 00:22:29,316 --> 00:22:33,916 Speaker 1: doing better. But how Daniel says, the first step is 436 00:22:33,956 --> 00:22:36,956 Speaker 1: determining the specific category of regret you're dealing with. 437 00:22:37,396 --> 00:22:41,196 Speaker 2: So there's an interesting distinction in the architecture of regret, 438 00:22:41,236 --> 00:22:44,516 Speaker 2: which is a distinction between action regrets and inaction regrets, 439 00:22:44,636 --> 00:22:46,476 Speaker 2: regrets about what we did and regrets about what we 440 00:22:46,516 --> 00:22:48,916 Speaker 2: didn't do. So let's take action regrets regrets about what 441 00:22:48,996 --> 00:22:50,796 Speaker 2: I did. Those are things that you can undo. 442 00:22:51,156 --> 00:22:53,556 Speaker 1: When I think of such situations, I'm reminded of the 443 00:22:53,596 --> 00:22:56,316 Speaker 1: advice of life coach Valerie Burton, who I spoke to 444 00:22:56,436 --> 00:22:59,796 Speaker 1: for a previous episode about dealing with guilt. Valerie said 445 00:22:59,836 --> 00:23:02,116 Speaker 1: that the first steps to dealing with our action regrets 446 00:23:02,276 --> 00:23:04,956 Speaker 1: are to admit what we've done, assess the damage done, 447 00:23:05,156 --> 00:23:08,356 Speaker 1: apologize for our actions, and then atone as best we can. 448 00:23:09,116 --> 00:23:11,116 Speaker 1: If you regret saying something mean to a friend, you 449 00:23:11,116 --> 00:23:15,156 Speaker 1: should apologize. If you carelessly broke your work buddy's favorite mug, 450 00:23:15,516 --> 00:23:18,276 Speaker 1: you should buy them a new one. Undoing doesn't mean 451 00:23:18,316 --> 00:23:21,156 Speaker 1: erasing what you did, but you could acknowledge your actions 452 00:23:21,316 --> 00:23:23,676 Speaker 1: and make amends for the damage at least a bit. 453 00:23:24,276 --> 00:23:26,956 Speaker 1: But if the regret you're experiencing stems from an inaction 454 00:23:27,396 --> 00:23:30,716 Speaker 1: something you didn't do yet, then the solution is also clear. 455 00:23:31,276 --> 00:23:33,796 Speaker 1: If possible, you should do the thing you haven't gotten 456 00:23:33,836 --> 00:23:36,596 Speaker 1: around to doing yet. As the old saying goes, the 457 00:23:36,636 --> 00:23:38,876 Speaker 1: best time to plant a tree was twenty years ago, 458 00:23:39,156 --> 00:23:43,036 Speaker 1: but the second best time is now. Daniel's survey results 459 00:23:43,076 --> 00:23:46,356 Speaker 1: demonstrated the importance of fixing inactions as soon as possible. 460 00:23:46,996 --> 00:23:49,196 Speaker 1: One of the biggest domains in which Daniel observed the 461 00:23:49,196 --> 00:23:53,836 Speaker 1: painful consequences of inaction regrets was in our social relationships, which. 462 00:23:53,676 --> 00:23:56,756 Speaker 2: Are if only i'd reached out. And the typical pattern 463 00:23:57,156 --> 00:24:02,956 Speaker 2: was a relationship comes apart, usually in very very undramatic ways. 464 00:24:03,316 --> 00:24:06,996 Speaker 2: It's like there's not yelling and screaming, and there's this 465 00:24:07,196 --> 00:24:10,116 Speaker 2: like things drift apart, Your relationship drifts apart. And then 466 00:24:10,156 --> 00:24:12,196 Speaker 2: what happens is that one person wants to reach out 467 00:24:12,196 --> 00:24:14,516 Speaker 2: and they say, oh, it's going to be really awkward 468 00:24:14,556 --> 00:24:16,596 Speaker 2: if I reach out, and the other side's not going 469 00:24:16,636 --> 00:24:19,076 Speaker 2: to care, so they don't. Then they wait a few 470 00:24:19,116 --> 00:24:21,396 Speaker 2: more years and they say, oh, now it's going to 471 00:24:21,396 --> 00:24:23,956 Speaker 2: be even more awkward and they're going to care even less, 472 00:24:24,556 --> 00:24:27,476 Speaker 2: so they don't. And so people are making a I 473 00:24:27,516 --> 00:24:29,756 Speaker 2: think a pretty profound misjudgment. They say it's going to 474 00:24:29,756 --> 00:24:32,036 Speaker 2: be awkward, and it turns out to be way less 475 00:24:32,036 --> 00:24:34,196 Speaker 2: awkward than they think, and they say the other side's 476 00:24:34,236 --> 00:24:36,836 Speaker 2: not going to care, and the other side almost always cares. 477 00:24:37,156 --> 00:24:41,436 Speaker 2: If you are at a juncture where you're wondering should 478 00:24:41,436 --> 00:24:43,716 Speaker 2: I reach out or should I not reach out, to 479 00:24:43,796 --> 00:24:46,276 Speaker 2: my mind being at that juncture is answered the question 480 00:24:46,676 --> 00:24:49,196 Speaker 2: always reach out. And I think it's very clear when 481 00:24:49,196 --> 00:24:52,956 Speaker 2: we look prospectively that if you don't reach out, you're 482 00:24:52,996 --> 00:24:54,996 Speaker 2: going to regret it. And I have too many stories 483 00:24:54,996 --> 00:24:57,556 Speaker 2: of people who didn't reach out and then it was 484 00:24:57,596 --> 00:24:59,436 Speaker 2: too late because somebody passed away. 485 00:25:00,156 --> 00:25:02,396 Speaker 1: But you might be left asking how can we deal 486 00:25:02,436 --> 00:25:05,236 Speaker 1: with the regrets that we can't fix, those hurts that 487 00:25:05,276 --> 00:25:07,396 Speaker 1: we cause to people who are no longer with us, 488 00:25:07,956 --> 00:25:10,916 Speaker 1: or some stranger we heart, or mistakes that we can't do, 489 00:25:11,836 --> 00:25:14,476 Speaker 1: or cases where enough time has passed that we simply 490 00:25:14,476 --> 00:25:17,956 Speaker 1: can't complete the actions we failed to do before. Daniel 491 00:25:18,036 --> 00:25:21,596 Speaker 1: argues that situations like these require changes in how we think. 492 00:25:22,596 --> 00:25:24,756 Speaker 1: We first need to normalize the fact that we messed 493 00:25:24,796 --> 00:25:27,596 Speaker 1: up and commit to not beating ourselves up over it. 494 00:25:28,036 --> 00:25:30,876 Speaker 2: One of the most important things you can do when 495 00:25:30,916 --> 00:25:35,236 Speaker 2: you screw up is treat yourself with self compassion. Treat 496 00:25:35,276 --> 00:25:38,836 Speaker 2: yourself with kindness rather than contempt, Recognize that your mistakes 497 00:25:38,876 --> 00:25:40,276 Speaker 2: are part of the human condition. 498 00:25:40,916 --> 00:25:43,476 Speaker 1: And when engaging in this more compassionate self talk, we 499 00:25:43,516 --> 00:25:46,156 Speaker 1: can also use the power of specific words to better 500 00:25:46,196 --> 00:25:49,436 Speaker 1: see the lessons that come from our mistakes, like, for example, 501 00:25:49,556 --> 00:25:52,756 Speaker 1: harnessing that less painful counterfactual phrase that allows us to 502 00:25:52,756 --> 00:25:55,356 Speaker 1: feel better at least, as. 503 00:25:55,236 --> 00:25:57,676 Speaker 2: We talked about earlier, you can at least them you 504 00:25:57,676 --> 00:26:01,116 Speaker 2: can find the silver lining you can do that downward counterfactual. 505 00:26:01,676 --> 00:26:04,156 Speaker 1: Liz Fossiline agrees that using new words in our self 506 00:26:04,196 --> 00:26:06,556 Speaker 1: talk can be a valuable way to learn about possible 507 00:26:06,596 --> 00:26:07,396 Speaker 1: silver linings. 508 00:26:08,156 --> 00:26:11,396 Speaker 6: One thing that I've found really valuable is replacing the 509 00:26:11,396 --> 00:26:15,236 Speaker 6: phrase should have with what if so instant my case, 510 00:26:15,396 --> 00:26:17,596 Speaker 6: I should have gone with my mom and gotten on 511 00:26:17,596 --> 00:26:21,156 Speaker 6: that plane, changing it and saying like, well, what if 512 00:26:21,236 --> 00:26:23,916 Speaker 6: the next time I do get on the plane. It's 513 00:26:23,956 --> 00:26:28,076 Speaker 6: sort of a quick phrasing shift that allows us to 514 00:26:28,236 --> 00:26:30,796 Speaker 6: both give ourselves grace but then shift more into this 515 00:26:30,876 --> 00:26:33,636 Speaker 6: mindset of what could the future look like if I 516 00:26:33,716 --> 00:26:35,396 Speaker 6: learned from this past experience. 517 00:26:36,356 --> 00:26:40,996 Speaker 1: Another effective, although somewhat counterintuitive, strategy involves sharing your regrets. 518 00:26:40,996 --> 00:26:44,236 Speaker 1: More broadly, we assume that talking about our mistakes will 519 00:26:44,236 --> 00:26:47,596 Speaker 1: feel shameful or embarrassing, but the science shows that admitting 520 00:26:47,636 --> 00:26:50,396 Speaker 1: your regrets, either to a close confidant or to the 521 00:26:50,396 --> 00:26:52,876 Speaker 1: pages of a written journal, can make you feel better. 522 00:26:53,516 --> 00:26:56,556 Speaker 1: In one study, researchers had subjects talk about their regrets 523 00:26:56,556 --> 00:26:59,556 Speaker 1: on a tape recorder for fifteen minutes a day. After 524 00:26:59,596 --> 00:27:03,076 Speaker 1: four weeks, participants report at higher levels of life satisfaction 525 00:27:03,436 --> 00:27:07,076 Speaker 1: and better overall mental well being. Daniel argues that this 526 00:27:07,196 --> 00:27:10,716 Speaker 1: works because talking about our regrets can make them more concrete. 527 00:27:11,116 --> 00:27:13,596 Speaker 2: And that makes them less fearsome, and it also begins 528 00:27:13,596 --> 00:27:14,436 Speaker 2: the sense making. 529 00:27:14,236 --> 00:27:17,356 Speaker 1: Process, and that sense making process is the final step 530 00:27:17,396 --> 00:27:20,596 Speaker 1: of harnessing our regrets. We're trying to extract a lesson 531 00:27:20,636 --> 00:27:22,636 Speaker 1: from what we did badly in the past so we 532 00:27:22,676 --> 00:27:23,956 Speaker 1: can do better in the future. 533 00:27:25,156 --> 00:27:27,756 Speaker 2: I don't think it's good enough to simply say, oh, 534 00:27:27,756 --> 00:27:29,956 Speaker 2: I'm going to treat myself with kindness, I'm going to 535 00:27:29,956 --> 00:27:31,836 Speaker 2: write about her disclose it. I think you have to 536 00:27:31,876 --> 00:27:34,396 Speaker 2: go to the next step and say, what did I 537 00:27:34,476 --> 00:27:36,756 Speaker 2: learn from this? What is the lesson that I've derived 538 00:27:36,796 --> 00:27:38,956 Speaker 2: from this, and how do I apply it going forward. 539 00:27:39,556 --> 00:27:41,996 Speaker 1: The sense making process is one of the reasons Liz 540 00:27:42,076 --> 00:27:44,636 Speaker 1: is also keen to share the power of regret. By 541 00:27:44,636 --> 00:27:47,636 Speaker 1: courageously processing her own regrets about not showing up when 542 00:27:47,636 --> 00:27:50,116 Speaker 1: her mother needed her, she's been able to better live 543 00:27:50,196 --> 00:27:51,996 Speaker 1: up to the person she ideally wants to be. 544 00:27:52,756 --> 00:27:55,276 Speaker 6: And so I don't even want to say I'm grateful, 545 00:27:55,836 --> 00:27:59,876 Speaker 6: because that's not quite true, but I do. I try 546 00:27:59,956 --> 00:28:03,436 Speaker 6: every time I'm confronted with a similar situation to make 547 00:28:03,516 --> 00:28:06,396 Speaker 6: the choice that I know is going to lead to 548 00:28:06,476 --> 00:28:08,876 Speaker 6: less long run pain, and that actually aligns more with 549 00:28:08,956 --> 00:28:09,756 Speaker 6: my values. 550 00:28:10,436 --> 00:28:13,196 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Liz had a chance to test that commitment to 551 00:28:13,276 --> 00:28:15,956 Speaker 1: her new ideal self when her father was rushed to 552 00:28:15,996 --> 00:28:17,076 Speaker 1: the hospital. 553 00:28:17,036 --> 00:28:19,356 Speaker 6: And at the time, we didn't you know, I we 554 00:28:19,436 --> 00:28:21,076 Speaker 6: really didn't know if he was going to make it, 555 00:28:21,116 --> 00:28:22,036 Speaker 6: so it was very scary. 556 00:28:22,596 --> 00:28:25,036 Speaker 1: Liz was living in San Francisco at the time. She 557 00:28:25,116 --> 00:28:27,676 Speaker 1: knew that flying halfway across the country to her father's 558 00:28:27,676 --> 00:28:30,076 Speaker 1: hospital in Chicago at short notice and in the middle 559 00:28:30,076 --> 00:28:33,076 Speaker 1: of the COVID nineteen pandemic would be a logistical nightmare. 560 00:28:33,876 --> 00:28:36,396 Speaker 1: And this time even her mother was telling her not 561 00:28:36,476 --> 00:28:38,036 Speaker 1: to bother making the trek. 562 00:28:38,436 --> 00:28:42,196 Speaker 6: And I was just like, absolutely not. I'm coming. Just puck, 563 00:28:42,276 --> 00:28:44,036 Speaker 6: you know, like pick me up at the airport, or 564 00:28:44,076 --> 00:28:45,716 Speaker 6: I'll take a lift or whatever it is. 565 00:28:46,476 --> 00:28:49,796 Speaker 1: By fully processing her previous experience, Liz was sure that 566 00:28:49,836 --> 00:28:52,756 Speaker 1: no matter how difficult that trip to Chicago was, the 567 00:28:52,796 --> 00:28:54,716 Speaker 1: anguish of not going would be worse. 568 00:28:55,636 --> 00:28:58,916 Speaker 6: I do not want to experience that pain again. And 569 00:28:58,956 --> 00:29:01,316 Speaker 6: I have learned my lesson that I will never ever 570 00:29:01,396 --> 00:29:02,316 Speaker 6: make that decision. 571 00:29:02,796 --> 00:29:05,596 Speaker 1: And so Liz made the trek and quickly enjoyed the 572 00:29:05,596 --> 00:29:08,676 Speaker 1: benefits that come from being the person you ideally want to. 573 00:29:08,596 --> 00:29:12,156 Speaker 6: Be my dad, it luckily ended up being sort of 574 00:29:12,236 --> 00:29:15,316 Speaker 6: overall okay, and my mom a couple days later it 575 00:29:15,356 --> 00:29:18,596 Speaker 6: was just like, I'm so glad you're here, and I said, 576 00:29:18,636 --> 00:29:21,876 Speaker 6: I am too, and I absolutely have no regrets around that. 577 00:29:22,676 --> 00:29:24,676 Speaker 1: We often think that in order to be happy we 578 00:29:24,756 --> 00:29:27,956 Speaker 1: need to shield ourselves from painful emotions, and there's no 579 00:29:27,956 --> 00:29:31,156 Speaker 1: doubt about it. Feeling regret is painful. It's one of 580 00:29:31,196 --> 00:29:34,756 Speaker 1: the suckiest emotions around. But as Daniel Pink put it 581 00:29:34,756 --> 00:29:37,036 Speaker 1: in his book, it's time you started thinking of your 582 00:29:37,116 --> 00:29:41,276 Speaker 1: regrets not as emotional threats, but as opportunities. If there's 583 00:29:41,276 --> 00:29:44,556 Speaker 1: some past action that makes you cringe, fix it. Didn't 584 00:29:44,596 --> 00:29:47,196 Speaker 1: take on that big challenge your ideal self was pushing for, 585 00:29:47,676 --> 00:29:49,836 Speaker 1: do it now. And if you can't go back and 586 00:29:49,916 --> 00:29:52,556 Speaker 1: change the past, find ways to see those pangs of 587 00:29:52,596 --> 00:29:55,356 Speaker 1: remorse in a new light as a powerful way for 588 00:29:55,436 --> 00:29:57,756 Speaker 1: your ideal self to nudge you in the right direction. 589 00:29:58,796 --> 00:30:01,036 Speaker 1: And if your ideal self wants to avoid at least 590 00:30:01,036 --> 00:30:04,116 Speaker 1: one future podcast regret, then I'd encourage you to come 591 00:30:04,116 --> 00:30:06,836 Speaker 1: back soon for the next episode of the Happiness Lab 592 00:30:06,996 --> 00:30:17,556 Speaker 1: with me doctor Lauriy Santos. The Happiness Lab is co 593 00:30:17,596 --> 00:30:20,876 Speaker 1: written and produced by Ryan Dilley, Emily Ann Vaughan, and 594 00:30:20,956 --> 00:30:25,276 Speaker 1: Courtney Guarino. Joseph Fridman checked our facts. Our original music 595 00:30:25,356 --> 00:30:28,796 Speaker 1: was composed by Zachary Silver, with additional scoring, mixing and 596 00:30:28,836 --> 00:30:32,596 Speaker 1: mastering by Evan Viola. Thanks to everyone who shared their 597 00:30:32,596 --> 00:30:36,316 Speaker 1: regret stories for this episode. Special thanks to Me LaBelle, 598 00:30:36,476 --> 00:30:41,156 Speaker 1: Heather Fain, John Schnarz, Carl Migliori, Christina Sullivan, Maggie Taylor, 599 00:30:41,396 --> 00:30:46,316 Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Nicol Morano, Royston Preserve, Jacob Weisberg, and my agent, 600 00:30:46,476 --> 00:30:49,316 Speaker 1: Ben Davis. The Happiness Lab is brought to you by 601 00:30:49,316 --> 00:30:53,236 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries and me, doctor Laurie Santos. To find more 602 00:30:53,236 --> 00:30:57,396 Speaker 1: Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 603 00:30:57,436 --> 00:30:59,676 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your podcasts,