WEBVTT - Phil Carson 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.240 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:16.520 My guest today is musician promotion man A and R 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:21.480 man manager Phil Carpson. Hello, good evening and welcome. Okay, 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.200 how'd you sign a c d C? I signed a 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:30.800 c d C in It was luck, as most things 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:33.440 are in the A and R business. And I don't 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:36.360 care who tells you differently. It's ninety five percent luck 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:38.560 of being in the right place at the right time 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:41.240 and five percent knowing that what is put in front 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:44.640 of you might be worth something. And such was the 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.760 case with a c d C. I was running Atlantic 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:51.000 Records outside of America at the time, and so you 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.159 have the whole world other than America, whole world of 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:59.120 America at that time. You remember how many offices were there, Well, 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:02.840 the only Lantic office is where Los Angeles and New 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:06.800 York and mine in London. But we had distribution throughout 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:11.000 the world through w E A. Right. But did did 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:13.880 you have any people, I mean, like, did you have 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:16.800 somebody in Sydney? No, we had. We had a label 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:19.920 manager in Cynema, but but he was not employed by Atlantic. 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:25.360 He was employed by the distributor, by our owned distribution company, 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:27.959 which is w e A right? So you got after 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:29.840 when it was already you got in it was already 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.480 brianched distribution, but I interrupted. You told me the story. 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:34.320 Well we're getting into that in a minute, because it 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:36.319 was not quite the case. But you know, we go 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:38.160 back to that. So the story of a C d 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:42.800 C is this. I'd signed a band called Backstreet Crawler, 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:46.640 and Back Street Crawler was put together by Paul Kozov, who, 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.080 as you know, was the guitarist in Free, in that 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:53.360 wonderful guitar solo in all Right Now and Here, put 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:56.520 a band together and actually done a tour and recorded 0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:00.320 a one live show which I heard and I thought this, 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:05.000 this is fabulous. When he's done is fabulous. So you know, 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.720 I signed the band and I was in the project 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:11.480 and I just felt it missed a tiny little something 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.040 and it needs I thought it needed some keyboards in 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:18.080 the mix. So I tracked down this guy that occasionally 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:23.240 played for the Who Do You Put the Crazy? Played 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:26.840 in the Free and later he played in the Who 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.760 Buzz Bundrick Rabbits. Yeah, so you know, I'm trying to 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.359 find where the fund can I find this guy? You know? 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:37.440 So I've called around all the studios and eventually I 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:39.880 found that somebody calling me. I said, oh, well, he's 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.960 managed by this Australian girl, you know. So I got 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:48.000 in contact with this young woman. Her name was Coral Browning, 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:51.799 and Coral in those days, she maybe twenty three or 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.880 twenty four. So she comes into my office and she 0:02:55.080 --> 0:03:00.840 is dropped dead gorgeous Coral, and you know, really so 0:03:01.240 --> 0:03:04.480 it's very nice. But she was so professional, you know. 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:08.880 She we made the deal for to record on these tracks. 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.480 And then she said to me, she said, I hope 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:14.440 you don't think this is unprofessional of me, but can 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:16.440 I talk to you about something else? Well, she could 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:20.960 have talked to me about. So she brought out a 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.840 thing that I've never seen before and certainly never seence 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.880 since it looked like a briefcase and it opened up 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.480 like a briefcase, but in the Jaws, so to speak, 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:36.400 a screen pop down. This is before the age of videos, 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:41.600 so it was a back projection machine that ran Super 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:46.320 eight with with audio and it was it was. It 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:48.040 was a C d C doing a long way to 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:52.560 the top. I caught it almost every day, So people 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.000 don't realize that today's era, it's truly a long way 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:58.680 to the Oh yeah. So anyway, she plays me this 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:03.320 thing and and she always reminds me. I stopped it 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.400 halfway through. I said, stop, I said, just tell me 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:09.200 again about this bad She said, well, you know, my 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:13.400 little brother manages the band from Australia and at that time, 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.159 and I said, who gave nobody cared what happened in 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:20.720 Australia the easy Beats, you know, by the way, one 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.880 of the easy Beats was it turns out the brother 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.960 of a young brother, so of which there are many. 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:32.240 So I said, look, he said. She said. This is 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:35.680 a record contany called Alberts, and they're pretty big over 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:38.120 there and a CDC are doing really well, to the 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:40.679 point where they want to get signed. So they've given 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:44.039 me a budget to bring the band to England. And look, 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.120 I've already set up these dates. And she gives me 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:49.160 this list of dates with all the opinion making places 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:51.720 around London, and she said, well, perhaps you'll you'll come 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:54.880 and see them. I said, I don't know. I said, 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:59.760 what if I signed him now? And we'll we'll call 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:02.000 your little brother on the phone and let's see we 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:04.600 can get this done. And then the record company can 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:07.680 still send them over, but I'll put them on a tour. 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:11.200 In fact, I'm going to put them on the Backstreet 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.040 Crawler tour to open the Backstreet Crawler. So it says 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:15.760 you can do that. I said, I can do that. 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:20.840 So we called Michael Browning and I made the deal 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:22.839 for a c d C over the phone, which is 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:26.120 a matter of records. I'm not giving you any unknown 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:28.800 information here, but I signed a c d C for 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:36.480 dollars per album delivered finished and how many albums, Well, 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.160 it's an interesting question because I signed them with the 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:43.120 options and I said, okay, we want three albums a year, 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:47.720 and we want four options after the first year. So 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:49.920 your math will tell you. That was a fifteen album 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.640 deal which turned out to be the most profitable record 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:58.440 deal in the history of the music business. The last album, 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:03.919 which was sold by Atlantic to Sony, was sold for 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:07.320 ten million dollars. Now this was before the days when 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:08.960 I and our people got a piece of the action. 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:11.200 But you know when it started to do when Art 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.360 and bought me up Bentley, So I was thankful for that. 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.880 But okay, well, Richard Griffith's he was the agent. He 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:23.159 tells a story of of course, Paul Kossof dies on 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.960 the way to do the gig. That's right, he did, 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:30.640 and then he says a CDC decided to play anyway, 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.000 and he said they were like five people in the 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:37.240 audience and when they played, those five people left and 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:38.920 they thought because they did the whole thing with Angus 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.520 on the shoulders whatever. Sure, and he said they called 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:45.239 everybody they knew for the second set totally four it's 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.200 more or less true than what happened. We obviously had 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:52.000 to cancel the actual Paul, but so we set them 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:56.160 up in some pubs around London and it was incredible. 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.440 It caught far really quickly, and then they're doing the 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:03.240 marquee and it's all moving along. And you know, I 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:08.040 compiled the first album from their two first Australian records, 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:12.200 High Voltage and whatever whatever, right, whatever it was, and 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.400 that that's what made the first A c d C 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:19.640 album had six tracks each each record. So, now, did 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:23.280 you stay with a c d C as their representative 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:26.880 at the label all through their career there? Sure? Yeah, Okay, 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:31.040 so the question becomes, uh, dirty Deeds is not released 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:36.320 in America when it's when it's recorded correctly, So what 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:40.520 was the company's viewpoint on the act. At that point 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:44.160 in time, the and our department hated them. Okay, they 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.960 said this they're going nowhere. This is a derivative album, 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:52.920 and you know we're passing. Fortunately I managed to intercept 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:57.040 it before the drop notice went out, but that took 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.880 a little while to do. So we actually did lose 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:04.360 one album out of my fifteen because of that decision. 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:06.800 But you know, nobody thought they were going anywhere. And 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:11.360 of course what happened later on, many years later, after 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.800 we've made Back in Black, Um, I got a call 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:19.480 from Doug Morris, who was by then president of Atlantic, saying, look, 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.000 you know we want to release we found we don't 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:24.360 have We never put this album because I put it 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.760 out in Europe, by the way, uh, and we're gonna 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.120 put it out now. And I remember saying him, are 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:33.360 you crazy, because what are you going to do? You're 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:38.360 following a Brian Johnson vocal with a Bond Scott vocal. 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.320 He said, yeah, but look, it's towards the end of 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:43.640 the year. We've had a great year. You know this 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:47.680 is going to infect effect all our Christmas bonuses. I said, 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:51.040 it will, no doubt do that, Doug. But what it's 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.800 going to do is create a new sales plateau for 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.120 a C d C. He said, what do you mean. 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.320 I said, we look at the time, we sold five 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.160 million back in Blacks, and he said, we're going to 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.959 do two million with this worse way. I said, you're right, 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:07.240 we'll do two million, but you'll never have an A 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:09.800 C d C album again that does more than two million. 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:12.760 And I was pretty well right on that. Okay, let's 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.680 dig a little deeper. So the last album with Bond 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.320 Scott is produced by Mutt Lang. How does that come together? 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:23.560 John Kalodna, We then enjoy, you know. And John was 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:26.760 really here and I used to work a lot together 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.600 on making these kind of decisions. And he had seen 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:35.000 what Matt had done with a with a group called Tycoon, 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:39.640 which was an Atlantic release, and he and Jerry Jerry Greenberg, 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:43.040 Jerry Greenberg thought that this would be a very good 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:45.559 mix to put together and it turned out to be 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:51.240 to be magic. Actually. Okay, now, Back in Black still 0:09:51.360 --> 0:09:53.440 to this moment, one of the great albums of all 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:57.000 time for those about to rock, didn't live up to 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:01.080 that level artistically irrelevant of sales. Let's think about it 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:03.880 that you know, Dirty Deeds came out in the middle, 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.280 so suddenly you've got a confused audience. Who's the singer 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:09.320 of a c d C. Is it this new guy 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.920 from Newcastle or is it this great bare chested rock 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:16.719 and roller bond Scott. You know, it was confusing. So 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:21.720 we did do two million with with and then we 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.880 did two million with for Those About Rock, which I 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.480 thought was a pretty good album. Had Doug not made 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:33.000 that monumental error, a c d C would have really 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:35.920 kept going at that kind of level, but it took 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:38.680 the steam out of it. And then after Those About 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:40.880 the Rock they had a couple of albums which didn't 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.480 do that work. Flicking with a Switch, Fly on the 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:47.440 Wall were not particularly good. They also made an internal 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:51.880 mistake they took Brian Johnson out of the writing mix. 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:55.160 One of the reasons that Back in Black did so 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:59.640 well was his kind of slightly tongueing, tongue in cheek lyrics, 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.360 which with anybody else could be cheesy, but with him 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.880 they worked really well. They touched a nerve in America 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.760 and all over the world, and at that album now, 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:13.080 I think it's something like twenty five million. That album 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:18.400 was done, Okay, some people I won't mention their names, 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.960 but closely involved said a lot of that music was 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:25.520 written before barn Scott died. Is that true? Back in Black? 0:11:26.280 --> 0:11:29.800 Back in they had some riffs that that is absolutely true. Yes, 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:33.360 it is true, But the actual lyrics and the melodies 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.200 that went on them was really the work of Brian 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.720 and of course mate Langer. I okay, and then I 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:41.800 didn't know that Brian was that involved on the lyrics 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:43.640 at that point. How did you were you involved in 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:49.000 finding Brian? I was They had met Brian finally enough 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.880 at a show in Newcastle years ago in a club 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:55.240 after an A C d C show, and bon Scott 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:59.080 arrived at their table and said, if anything happens to me, 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:02.559 this is your right. And because he was then in 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.839 a group called Jordan, which you know doing doing pretty well. 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.080 But yeah, I was involved in making the deal for 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.439 him to join A C d C with I think 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:15.160 Peter Men should taken by then, who did an amazing 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:17.960 job with the A C D. So then he got fired, 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:20.320 well yeah he did. Whether he fell foul of the 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.680 Young's eventually. I mean it's not for nothing that they're 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:27.280 called the brothers Grim Okay, how'd you get your job 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:32.160 with Atlantic Records. To begin with, Uh, it's very interesting. Really, 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.880 I've actually left the music business for a while and 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.920 I was actually in the supermarket game. What then, that 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:42.480 begs a question, So you're you grew up where in London? 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:44.480 In London when your father do for a living? I 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:46.319 would say your mother, But at that point usually women 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.800 didn't tend to work. They said, my mother did not work. 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.680 My father was with with with a tea company, and 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:58.400 my uncle was with a small supermarket company. So everybody said, well, 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:00.600 the food business is great, so you've got to get 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:05.679 in there. So I first of all them joined the 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:10.280 lines before we go. How many siblings? Brothers and sisters? None? 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:14.040 Now you're the only kid. Hey, well they've achieved the ultimate? 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.000 What do you want? So do you think they only 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.880 wanted to have one kid? I told them they couldn't 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.960 have any more at that point. Okay, okay, but a 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.400 lot of times you're the only kid, you know, you're 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.560 coddle the hopes and dreams or story after story. Rick 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.520 Rubin was an only kid. What was it like? Were 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.480 your parents very accepting of you? Or you were a rebel? 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:36.880 I was not a rebel. I went to I did 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.240 pretty well at school, you know, so I was in 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:43.720 I was destined to kind of university. But you know, 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.160 I caught the bug. You know, in England we got 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.320 this perverse way of school works. It's not the great 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:53.080 system that you guys have a good English school. You 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.040 go right up to the age of nineteen. They call 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.800 it the sixth form. There's two years in the sixth form, 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:02.240 which are probably good is four years in American university. 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.480 I hate to say that, it is true. So I 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.400 did not go into the sixth form. I left before 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:11.040 simply because the boys in the sixth form and a 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.520 rock band and as as a skiffle band. Actually, because 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:20.880 before you're are we in okay, long before the Beatles. 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.520 It was before the Beatles. Lonnie darn again, all that stuff. 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.560 Lonnie Donegan certainly was around. Yeah, it was rock Island 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:31.080 Line and all those great songs and this little acoustic 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.880 guitar band and when they were taking a break and 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.960 pick up their guitars and plays away. So eventually I 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.080 decided that, you know, I wanted to play music while 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:42.040 I was still at school and the easiest job. I 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.640 wasn't a great guitar player, but then I realized that 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.440 a bass guitar, Sandy got four strings, so it's a 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.960 little easier to articulate four strings and six. So I 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:56.320 bought a bass guitar and kind Hofner Okay, just not 0:14:56.360 --> 0:15:01.040 the same as Paul mcconny, but another model of And 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.960 that was how I started and joined the local band. 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:06.840 Funny enough, the local band I was in was based 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:11.360 in Southeast London, where all the great guitar players came from. Really, 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:16.160 so not when you know this, but Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:20.880 Jimmy Page, Mit Green, who was an amazing guitar player 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:23.360 in a band called Johnny kin and the Pirates. Was 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:27.000 that Peter Green related to Peter Green? No, Mick Green. 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:29.760 You've got to check out. I mean, Johnny Kinning Parks 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:31.560 never made it here. We read about it in English 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.320 stress right, Yeah, but if you listen to that group, 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:38.800 they so those three and uh, Mr Green, who do 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.240 you personally think is the best. I've got to give 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:46.200 it to Jimmy Page really, Although I love Jeff Beck's style, 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:49.840 I mean he's incredible. I mean he plays with no pick. 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.520 I saw him in concert recently and he did something 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:58.720 just on harmonics. It was what was that damn song? 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:02.000 It was a big old standard of it's time. Judy 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.640 Garland was in the movie what's the famous movie? Oh, 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:08.200 you're talking about over the Rainbowl? Exactly over the rainbow 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.400 they were. I wasn't too far out of anyway. He 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.800 played that song on harmonics. I don't think he played 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.840 like a regular note. It was all harmonics. I'm listening 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.280 to this guy. Oh my god, what a player. Well, 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.280 I think he's the best player. Obviously Jimmy could write 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:27.080 and produce the Jeff couldn't. That's right. But okay, so 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.600 you're playing with this band. It's a skiffle band. I no, 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.560 by then, I sort of that was the school band. 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:35.520 But by then I bought a bass guitar. It was 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:38.080 an early rock group. You know. We just we covered 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.040 all the gene vincent things that that's okay? Was that 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:45.360 your only job? No, it's still at school. But you 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.600 didn't go to sixth form. I did not. I left 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:50.160 it when I was just seventeen, okay, So I was 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:52.520 doing that since I was fifteen, okay, And did the 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.240 breast of the band also leaves school? Well, they I 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.040 was not at school with the rest of them. That. 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.360 Actually I joined a group that was already already going, 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:03.240 you know, So could you make a living working for 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.840 absolutely not. That was just like a semi pro little band, 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.000 you know. But I got the bunk, you know, I 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.639 thought I wanted to play and okay, so did you 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.760 have a day job. I didn't have a day job 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:16.720 at that point. No, I was still at school. I'm 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:20.200 telling you, let's but what out of school at school 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:21.920 and you're playing in the band. You have it? Your 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.720 parents say, hey, you gotta a bike. I got a 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.600 litt if. I got a job for a little while. 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.760 I wanted to be a rocket scientist. I really did. 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:33.560 So I got a job at the Air Ministry in London, 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.399 which lasted about I don't know, four or five weeks, 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:41.480 and I was in English. People love an acronyms. Acronyms, 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.359 you know that said it was Sam for two Ways, 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:48.359 Scientific Advisor to the Air Ministry. I loved that. So 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:52.080 so there I wasn't there, and somehow I can't even 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.400 remember how I got to offer to join a group 0:17:54.400 --> 0:18:00.800 called the Londoners. The Londoners was a seminal English band. 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:07.720 This was I guess when was that nineties sixty sixty two. Okay, 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.560 the Londons that had just come back from Hamburg and 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:14.720 they were really on it. They were really happening band. 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.360 You can read about them. I don't think they made 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:20.120 a couple of records in Hamburg. They yeah, they didn't 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.520 make it at all here, but I heard the name. Yeah, Well, 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.640 so I joined this band. And my grandmother, who had 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.440 been a showgirl in the early part of the twentieth century, 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.119 says to me, she said, well, look though she was 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.119 a show bises lady and her my aunt, who was 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:40.040 a daughter, you know, it was also in the in 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:44.040 the show business, says She says. You know what guitar? 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:46.520 What what guitar? Do? Player said, when I play a 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:49.119 half in a bass guitar show, I don't know what 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.160 a bass guitar is? What is I said, well, it's 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:53.720 like a bass Okay. He said, well, what's the best one? 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:56.760 I said, well, Fender Precisions is going to be the 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:58.920 best one. She says, you were, just go and get one. 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.680 I'll pay for it. Said why you know how much 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.080 they are? They are a hundred and twenty five pounds, 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:08.920 you know, which She's right, about two hundred dollars. So 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.600 she says, yeah, just go and get it. You know. 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.960 I said, wow, thank you, and she the you needed 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.280 one of those box things that goes with you know 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:20.800 that thing. So you didn't hear I said, what he has? 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.719 It's an ample, Like what's the best amplifier? So now 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:27.080 I'm no, I'm gonna roll. I said, well, it's a 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:31.240 Fender basement amplifier. You know, nobody had a Fender basement app. 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:34.119 I mean I've seen one in the shop window in 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:38.160 Charing Cross Road and it was the bee's knees. Now 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.600 you've got to realize, back in those days, the first 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:43.439 question when you call up for a job as a 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:47.200 musician was what you've got? Okay, Fender base, Fender base, 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:50.800 Oh yeah, okay, good. If you had a van, you've 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.240 got you've got the gig without even playing. So but 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:56.239 I didn't have a van at that point, but I 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.119 did get the gig, and I wasn't a bad base player. 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.040 I wasn't bad, okay, but a little bit slower. If 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:05.639 Londoners were happening, how do you get the gig? Do 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.439 you know? I honestly don't remember. It must have been 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:11.840 a phone call or something. Musicians used to hang out 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:16.120 those days in charing Cross Road in London, and there 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.800 was a particular store where it was the birthplace of 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.520 a lot of bands. It was Jennings Music Store. That's 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:27.159 where they were the Vox distributor, Vox Aunt districtor, and 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:29.919 down says they had a basement. I mean back in 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:32.200 those days, I was actually in a band with Jeff Beck. 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:36.440 It lasted nearly all day, so but you know, we're 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.080 still friends and we were jamming down. Then we're going 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.840 to start a band together. I remember driving around London 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:47.320 looking for particular musicians to join this band, but it 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.560 never went past that. Okay, well I'm getting more of 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.720 a fuel. Okay, so you joined the Londoners and you 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:55.880 weren't that going a bass player. What happens next, well 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.480 that the Londoners were a really strong band. I mean 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:04.000 they really great players. They were one of the first 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.959 mans to start playing Ray Charles music, for example. So 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:09.920 the only place people like to hear what they had 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:13.800 to offer actually with the American basis around around England. 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:16.520 So that's where we played a lot. And you know, 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.080 you're playing like three sets a night, and it was 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.720 it showed me what you had to do. And then 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.320 I saw an ad in a in a melody make 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:28.800 I think it was which as the old English paper 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:34.040 bass player wanted to join vocal group. I can't sing 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:37.840 for ship, but still I'll phone up and it turns 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:40.439 out it's a group called the Springfields, okay, which is 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:44.160 in those days it was Dusty Springfield and brother Tom 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:48.200 and Mike Hurst. Mike Hurst went on to produce early 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:52.439 Cat Stevens records. So you know, the same conversation, what 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:55.640 do you play with sender base? So but this time 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:58.680 there was an audition which I passed and I joined 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:02.440 the Springfields and that was fantastic. I mean they had 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:06.560 two hits right then, that Islander Dreams and say I 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:09.480 won't be there, and we're playing all these big places, 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:13.840 well big two thousand seat package tours, you know in England. 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:15.920 I think it was pretty much the same in America. 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:18.440 But they used to have these package tops that would 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:20.960 go out and I remember doing them with Del Shannon, 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:26.280 Johnny tillottson. I mean, these were happening names of that time. Okay, 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:28.680 let's stop for a second. Yes, what are the Londoners 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:32.359 say when you're gonna quit? I can't repeat that in 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:36.120 I mean the band was sort of grinding to a halt, 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:38.000 to be honest with you. I mean they didn't like 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:41.160 doing these American bases. They couldn't get work anyplace else. 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:43.680 They were thinking of going back to Hamburg. But that 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:46.919 boat kind of sailed by. Okay, did you play on 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:51.480 those Springfield hits or these? Were they already released? They've 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:53.920 already released by the time I was just a touring 0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:56.320 Musicis you understand? And now you're on tour with all 0:22:56.359 --> 0:22:59.480 these people. Are you the type who ingratiates and becomes 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:01.840 friends with all the musicians or you stick to yourself? 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:05.080 Now I was out there, you know, I was, you know, 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:09.760 you gone great with Johnny Tillotson. Terrific guy, sort of. 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:12.399 I was in touch with him for years, actually know, 0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:15.159 And it was it was like a family. These tours 0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:17.800 are put together and they last, I don't know, three 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:20.119 to five weeks or whatever it is, and you become 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:22.840 a family, you know, and you're all traveling in the 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:25.959 same transport. By're on a bus, you know, but not 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:30.120 like sleepers. It's like a regular bus and Del Shannon 0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:32.280 will be up there or Johnny or whatever the other 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:34.480 people we were playing with, and it was It was 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:36.920 pretty exciting, you know. So how long did it last 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:39.320 with you in the spring Fields? Just a matter of months. 0:23:39.520 --> 0:23:40.920 And when they told me they were going to break 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:43.679 up in the city in sixty three. I joined in 0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:46.399 sixty two and they why were they going to break up? 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:48.639 Because Dusty was going to go Dusty wanted to go 0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:51.320 solo and she had some she she fell in love 0:23:51.400 --> 0:23:53.720 with R and B music, you know what had happened. 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:57.280 They had gone to Memphis before I joined them to 0:23:57.440 --> 0:24:01.040 record an album and she sort of fell in love 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:03.399 with R and B music while she was there, and 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:07.000 that she saw herself getting involved in that line of music. 0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:10.119 The interesting thing is, you know, so I know the 0:24:10.119 --> 0:24:14.840 band's going to break up, right, So Mike her sister, people, hey, 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:18.160 let's get a band together. Oh great, Mike, yeah we will. 0:24:19.080 --> 0:24:22.720 The next day, Dusty said, would you come and be 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:27.320 my musical director? I said, I'm sorry, I just promised, Mike. 0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:31.000 You know you're day late. So, to cut a long 0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:34.399 story short, that Mike Hurst band never played a day 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:37.560 and Dusty went on to be Dusty Springfield. Well, okay, 0:24:37.600 --> 0:24:39.480 so you didn't realize she was going to be Dusty 0:24:39.520 --> 0:24:41.480 spring No, I knew she was gonna, I mean she was. 0:24:41.560 --> 0:24:44.320 You've got no idea, Okay, were you What was it like? 0:24:44.680 --> 0:24:49.800 Did you have a crush on Dusty Springfield? Actually she 0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:52.520 was a very attractive young woman, I got to tell you. 0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:56.159 But you know, and we used to hang out a 0:24:56.160 --> 0:24:58.760 lot together, you know, frankly it was but it was 0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:01.879 just fun. I mean that right, certainly, never I spect 0:25:01.880 --> 0:25:03.680 a kind of bit of Okay, So she gets another 0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:07.720 musical director, you're with my cursed that doesn't go with nowhere, 0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:11.440 absolutely nowhere. So now I'm stuck with my Fender basement 0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:15.560 and Fender basement amplifier and Vendor precision based guitar and 0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:18.640 nowhere to go. So I start looking for other jobs. 0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:22.320 And because I've been with the Springfields, okay, which was 0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:25.320 a high hope, high profile, think, I was kind of 0:25:25.680 --> 0:25:28.919 sought after, you know, scilly because I had the offender 0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:31.320 base and Defender basement. At this point, with all this work, 0:25:31.320 --> 0:25:34.400 you must be getting better. Oh I was certainly getting better, 0:25:34.480 --> 0:25:38.880 but you know, I mean, you'd Jack Jaco Pastorius were 0:25:38.920 --> 0:25:42.320 not up, not quite up at all. I mean in 0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:44.960 later years in a way after this happens because when 0:25:45.000 --> 0:25:48.600 I joined Atlantic, the guys in Zepplin. Knew I was 0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:51.520 a musician. They used to let me play with them. 0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:54.639 But where I having John Paul Jones to go over 0:25:54.680 --> 0:25:57.280 and play keyboards and I will play bass and they 0:25:57.400 --> 0:26:00.200 do some old rock songs. They've always very kind to me. 0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:02.800 They did things which have just been three or four 0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:06.359 chord changes, and that was. This is in rehearsal on 0:26:06.480 --> 0:26:10.880 stage stage, come on. And the interesting is I say 0:26:10.960 --> 0:26:13.720 this all the time. John Paul Jones could played better 0:26:13.760 --> 0:26:16.600 bass with his feet the batles of a Hammond organ, 0:26:16.920 --> 0:26:18.960 and I could ever manage. I mean, you listen to 0:26:19.000 --> 0:26:23.479 since I've been loving you, the unbelievable baseline that's on 0:26:23.520 --> 0:26:27.560 the Hammond. You know, he's just a monster musician. So 0:26:27.720 --> 0:26:30.080 really I know I knew and made the right decision 0:26:30.119 --> 0:26:33.480 because with players there, well that's just I remember myself. 0:26:33.560 --> 0:26:36.119 But we all played guitars after the beatles, and I 0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:39.080 went to my friend's house side the cheap Japanese guitar. 0:26:39.119 --> 0:26:41.520 He had an E S three thirty five, and he said, 0:26:41.520 --> 0:26:44.040 now we're going to change keys, and I said, I'm out. 0:26:45.800 --> 0:26:49.280 That's right, yeah, okay, I get you. So the hearse 0:26:49.359 --> 0:26:53.320 biand goes nowhere, nowhere, right, so I joined who the 0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:58.120 first one I joined was Houston Wells and the Marksman. 0:26:58.160 --> 0:27:00.919 I mean, I know you know that name well, okay, 0:27:00.960 --> 0:27:03.040 So just to refresh those who have not heard of 0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:06.880 Houston Walds and the Marksman. It was a English country 0:27:06.920 --> 0:27:10.440 band which was could have been destined to go nowhere 0:27:10.800 --> 0:27:16.080 except they had recorded with Joe Meek, the legendary Joe Meek, 0:27:16.119 --> 0:27:20.760 who was really the first independent producer of note, and 0:27:20.920 --> 0:27:23.399 they made a record Cad Only the Heartaches, which was 0:27:23.440 --> 0:27:28.200 a country song and it was a hit and before 0:27:28.240 --> 0:27:31.399 I joined and they had recorded it, so it was 0:27:31.440 --> 0:27:34.400 a huge hit. So then now we're off doing package 0:27:34.440 --> 0:27:38.159 tours with Houston Walds and the Marksman, supporting groups like 0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:41.600 Billy J Kerryman, The Dakota's, Johnny Kid and the Pirates, 0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:45.680 the Beatles. We supported the Beatles on their first tour 0:27:45.720 --> 0:27:48.600 of Scotland. We were actually second on the bill to 0:27:48.720 --> 0:27:51.359 the Beatles. See in those days, the pecking order of 0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:55.120 where you were on the set was dependent on where 0:27:55.119 --> 0:27:57.879 you were in the chart, and we had a big record. 0:27:57.880 --> 0:28:00.320 I mean we were like chucking up thirty in on 0:28:00.320 --> 0:28:04.159 the chart. Before they must have been higher up than 0:28:04.240 --> 0:28:06.840 us because obviously they were the Beatles by then, but 0:28:07.760 --> 0:28:10.359 we actually kept them off number one in Ireland for 0:28:10.440 --> 0:28:13.560 a week. You know. It was a big Okay, I 0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:18.479 remember when Beatlemania happened in America. Yes, what was it 0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:20.639 like in the UK? At what point did you realize 0:28:20.680 --> 0:28:23.160 this was just not another band? Oh boy? I mean 0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:26.360 the night the first night, on the date of the tour, 0:28:27.920 --> 0:28:31.359 I was sort of mouth almighty of the Houston Worlds 0:28:31.359 --> 0:28:34.119 and the marks. We would start with an instrumental okay, 0:28:34.440 --> 0:28:37.719 and we're we're wearing sort of country looking gear, you know, 0:28:38.480 --> 0:28:40.720 and we're so we're up there and we'll playing this 0:28:40.800 --> 0:28:43.400 thing called guitar boogie shovel, which is a straight kind 0:28:43.400 --> 0:28:46.840 of twelve bar blues, and I'll get to the end 0:28:46.880 --> 0:28:50.040 of it and we'd start the the riff of the 0:28:50.080 --> 0:28:52.520 next song, you know, and it would be me that 0:28:52.560 --> 0:28:55.760 would do. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, how you're doing 0:28:55.760 --> 0:28:58.320 out there? I now like to bring on the star 0:28:58.440 --> 0:29:01.880 of our show, Houston World. Well, that introduction was fine. 0:29:02.200 --> 0:29:05.440 When we were headlining the night in Glasgow, it didn't 0:29:05.440 --> 0:29:09.000 go down so well because I did my thing. Hey, 0:29:09.040 --> 0:29:10.920 I now like you to see the star of our 0:29:10.920 --> 0:29:18.080 show and the audience went Houston Worlds, and so he 0:29:18.120 --> 0:29:21.240 walked onto total silence. He didn't like that very much. 0:29:21.400 --> 0:29:24.200 Very That's when I knew the Beatles owned by the way. 0:29:24.240 --> 0:29:26.960 By then, I did have a van by them, and 0:29:27.080 --> 0:29:29.600 it was a white van and it was exactly the 0:29:29.640 --> 0:29:32.240 same as the Beatles van. So we're trying to get 0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:34.320 out the gig. People think we're the Beatles and the 0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:37.640 band's being rocked. So that's when I knew how big 0:29:37.680 --> 0:29:40.920 the Beatles were. Okay, but musically, of course. The first 0:29:40.960 --> 0:29:43.760 records came out in sixty two, yes, and it didn't 0:29:43.800 --> 0:29:46.160 as I say. First, I Want to Hold Your Hand 0:29:46.200 --> 0:29:48.840 was released the very end of sixty three in America. 0:29:49.240 --> 0:29:51.440 She Loves You would come out earlier on Swan, but 0:29:51.480 --> 0:29:55.040 no one had heard it. So when this stuff starts 0:29:55.040 --> 0:29:58.040 to come out and everybody's there's a monoculture, everybody's listening 0:29:58.040 --> 0:30:01.440 to the same radio show, etera, etcetera. When was it, 0:30:01.560 --> 0:30:04.640 really when did the Beatles sort of take over the scene? 0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:07.880 It was sixty three in England for sure. I mean 0:30:07.920 --> 0:30:10.520 they were this tour. I can't remember what month it was, 0:30:10.560 --> 0:30:12.600 to be honest with you, but by then they were 0:30:12.600 --> 0:30:15.880 really rocking you know they were happening, so then were 0:30:15.920 --> 0:30:18.400 you were fair? Oh? I thought they were terrific. You're 0:30:18.480 --> 0:30:21.280 kidding me. I do remember one actually had that same 0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:25.200 thing in Glasgow. Nobody had Rhodes in those days, including 0:30:25.240 --> 0:30:27.920 the Beatles. They have one guy, so you know they 0:30:27.920 --> 0:30:29.560 were there. They were on the side of the stage 0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:32.480 and we were directly under them, so we were going 0:30:32.600 --> 0:30:35.280 right before the Beatles, so they're they're checking us out. 0:30:35.920 --> 0:30:39.120 And because you carry your own bloody amplifier onto the 0:30:39.200 --> 0:30:43.400 stage and so you get oh notes, the appli was 0:30:43.440 --> 0:30:46.360 already there, but you've got your guitar and my lead 0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:49.320 in my head. Suddenly, just before we're going on, my 0:30:49.480 --> 0:30:54.080 guitar lely crumbles and you know why America accord accords 0:30:54.200 --> 0:31:05.000 exactly exactly, so it Paul McCartney's hey, Paul man, can 0:31:05.040 --> 0:31:07.920 I borrow your cord? Sure? And he lends me the 0:31:07.960 --> 0:31:11.240 guitar chord and the funny thing about That's the only 0:31:11.360 --> 0:31:16.120 into action I had with Paul McCartney until years later 0:31:16.520 --> 0:31:20.080 when I made a movie about Sun Records and there 0:31:20.160 --> 0:31:23.080 was a documentary and I wanted Paul to do That's 0:31:23.080 --> 0:31:26.080 all right, Mama, with Scotty Moore and d j Fontana 0:31:26.160 --> 0:31:28.760 Elvis's guys, which he you know. I got a hold 0:31:28.760 --> 0:31:31.160 of his manager and he said, look, I know who 0:31:31.200 --> 0:31:34.160 you are. You ran Atlantic for years, I mean everybody. 0:31:34.160 --> 0:31:36.480 I mean it was in London, everybody. I was there. 0:31:36.480 --> 0:31:39.280 But so he says, did you do you know? Paul? 0:31:39.600 --> 0:31:41.320 I said, well, you know, and he made him once 0:31:41.800 --> 0:31:43.560 and told him this story, said put that in the 0:31:43.640 --> 0:31:46.160 letter you like, and he did. You know, he agreed 0:31:46.200 --> 0:31:48.360 to do this this thing with us, did but he 0:31:48.400 --> 0:31:51.240 didn't remember giving he did. He didn't remember that. Of course, 0:31:51.400 --> 0:31:54.240 of course they just wonder. You never know, things like Okay, 0:31:54.360 --> 0:31:58.000 so you're playing and they have a hit with the 0:31:58.040 --> 0:32:00.840 country styled act and what goes with what happens? Well, 0:32:00.880 --> 0:32:03.520 we did another record with Joe Meet, which I was on, 0:32:03.840 --> 0:32:07.080 and I mean just recording with Joe Meet was an 0:32:07.120 --> 0:32:09.520 incredible experience. So what was it like, Well, it was 0:32:09.520 --> 0:32:12.920 there's days before multi track had been invented, right, So 0:32:12.960 --> 0:32:19.000 he had two I p s interest Brisono machines and 0:32:19.040 --> 0:32:21.440 he would bounce tracks from one to the other. So 0:32:21.520 --> 0:32:25.640 he would build a song, you know, by simply bouncing 0:32:25.680 --> 0:32:28.280 tracks back and forth. And would he do that all 0:32:28.320 --> 0:32:30.560 on the same day or would he mix after you left? 0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:33.680 He mixed after we left. But by the time he 0:32:33.760 --> 0:32:36.200 got to the end over dub, it was pretty done. 0:32:36.200 --> 0:32:40.000 Because you can't actually go back. If you're using that principle, 0:32:40.440 --> 0:32:42.920 you're going to go back one or two generations. So 0:32:43.920 --> 0:32:47.440 but he would the band would basically do the track 0:32:47.560 --> 0:32:50.720 live and he would would do it many times and 0:32:50.760 --> 0:32:53.240 he'd eventually get it right. It was in a tiny 0:32:53.280 --> 0:32:56.720 little it was above a leather goods store in northeast London. 0:32:56.960 --> 0:32:59.840 It was like a two room apartment. It was intense 0:33:00.600 --> 0:33:04.080 and the equipment was just these two machines and a 0:33:04.160 --> 0:33:09.160 mix of which was a rotary knobs on. It very unsophisticated, 0:33:09.400 --> 0:33:12.120 but he got the sounds, you know, and then the 0:33:12.200 --> 0:33:14.520 last thing he would do put the vocal on and 0:33:14.800 --> 0:33:18.080 that was it. But the second record went nowhere. Okay, 0:33:18.120 --> 0:33:21.560 but at this point in time, there's beatle Mania. Sure 0:33:21.680 --> 0:33:23.840 not longer after that people say, oh, I can make 0:33:23.880 --> 0:33:27.080 a lot of dough doing this. Yes, was that somewhere 0:33:27.080 --> 0:33:30.400 of the dream, No, because at the time, you know, 0:33:31.320 --> 0:33:35.240 the next tour that we did with Houston Wells was 0:33:35.560 --> 0:33:38.920 with Billy J. Cramer and the Dakotas, and I think 0:33:38.960 --> 0:33:42.160 Johnny Kidd was on that. So by then this the 0:33:42.240 --> 0:33:46.480 Mersey Beat thing had erupted and they're all the foremost 0:33:46.720 --> 0:33:49.240 Siller black you know, we too, We tour with all 0:33:49.280 --> 0:33:51.760 those people because in this short window where we had 0:33:51.760 --> 0:33:54.200 a big hit, we were something a little bit different 0:33:54.480 --> 0:33:58.959 to the Brian Epstein crew, which was the main fodder. 0:33:59.200 --> 0:34:01.400 So we just would come in and do our little thing. 0:34:01.600 --> 0:34:04.080 So how does it end with that? Badly? You know? 0:34:04.160 --> 0:34:08.800 It was Houston World's got too big for his boots. 0:34:09.120 --> 0:34:12.200 I didn't like him. I started a revolution and then 0:34:12.239 --> 0:34:15.239 I find it was a revolution of one. So I 0:34:15.280 --> 0:34:18.600 got the sack from Houston, Wales and the marksman who 0:34:18.640 --> 0:34:22.160 then disappeared into oblivion. So it didn't really matter. But then, 0:34:22.239 --> 0:34:25.480 because then I've been in the Springfields Houston worlds, and 0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:29.680 I still had my offender base, offender base and a 0:34:29.760 --> 0:34:32.960 van now okay, and I joined a group called the 0:34:33.040 --> 0:34:36.400 Lawn Gibson Trio, which of course you've never heard of. 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:40.200 They they had they were a country band as well, 0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:42.799 and they had one hit in England called Some Do 0:34:42.920 --> 0:34:47.560 Some Don't. And they also had a radio series, believe 0:34:47.600 --> 0:34:49.640 it or not, it's called Side by Side with the 0:34:49.719 --> 0:34:53.520 Lawn Gibson Trio on BBC Radio, and each week we 0:34:53.560 --> 0:34:57.080 would do record a show and it would be us 0:34:57.200 --> 0:35:01.000 and another man, Wayne Fontana, and the I made vendors 0:35:01.640 --> 0:35:05.120 Um the Beatles were on that show with us, you know. 0:35:05.560 --> 0:35:09.720 So that lasted a little while. I can't quite remember. 0:35:09.920 --> 0:35:12.640 By then, I was about nineteen, and I'm getting and 0:35:12.680 --> 0:35:16.200 I'm not making any money, by the way, longer to type, 0:35:16.800 --> 0:35:19.120 still living at home. He is still living at home, 0:35:19.440 --> 0:35:21.920 you know, coming in late at night, and it's not 0:35:21.960 --> 0:35:25.400 going down that well. And by then my uncle had 0:35:25.440 --> 0:35:28.080 really started moving a little bit up the chain in 0:35:28.400 --> 0:35:31.279 the supermarket business. So he said, look, you know, I 0:35:31.280 --> 0:35:33.600 can't bring it. The companies too small to bring you 0:35:33.680 --> 0:35:36.880 in now, because but if you go and learn the 0:35:36.920 --> 0:35:40.319 business somewhere else, you know, then we can put you 0:35:40.360 --> 0:35:42.719 in there. He eventually, by the way, became chairman of 0:35:42.760 --> 0:35:45.319 safe Way Europe. So wow, okay, he was really in 0:35:45.320 --> 0:35:47.719 the supermarket. He really was. In fact, he tried to 0:35:47.800 --> 0:35:50.319 buy a safe Way with the leverage buy and that's 0:35:50.320 --> 0:35:54.759 the kind of guy he was. So anyway, so I 0:35:54.880 --> 0:36:00.439 get a job with another supermarket and one day the 0:36:00.520 --> 0:36:03.640 guy who was with a salesman for Maxwell house coffee 0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:06.879 and of course birds Custard that you know well came 0:36:06.920 --> 0:36:10.759 into you know, take the weekly order, and he's got 0:36:10.800 --> 0:36:13.200 a guy in a nice suit with him and I'm 0:36:13.239 --> 0:36:16.240 on the floor pricing up cans of beans or something, 0:36:16.280 --> 0:36:21.080 you know. So the guy in the nice suits, we've 0:36:21.120 --> 0:36:23.040 heard a lot about you. You're one of the youngest 0:36:23.040 --> 0:36:26.680 supermarket managers in London. I said, well, yeah, I suppose 0:36:26.719 --> 0:36:30.160 i am. He says, um, well, we've got a training 0:36:30.200 --> 0:36:36.040 program that General Foods and I only usually hire university graduates, 0:36:36.080 --> 0:36:39.480 but you're now about the right age, and do you 0:36:39.520 --> 0:36:42.160 want to join it? And I joined General Foods and 0:36:42.239 --> 0:36:45.920 I was there for almost four years, and it was 0:36:46.600 --> 0:36:53.040 really changed my life, actually because I then completely stopped playing. 0:36:53.239 --> 0:36:56.600 I didn't even pick the guitar up again. My actually 0:36:56.600 --> 0:37:00.560 my precision base got stolen. I remember that so really 0:37:01.280 --> 0:37:04.080 disheartened me. And I went and thought, I'm going to 0:37:04.200 --> 0:37:07.440 do this. And I was in the General Foods product 0:37:07.520 --> 0:37:12.040 development group and doing marketing and setting up sales campaigns 0:37:12.040 --> 0:37:15.640 and this, that and the other, and uh that's that 0:37:15.719 --> 0:37:18.720 led to the next job in a very perverse manner, 0:37:19.040 --> 0:37:23.399 which I shall tell you. The General Feros was based 0:37:23.440 --> 0:37:27.200 in those days up in Birmingham and we were having 0:37:27.239 --> 0:37:31.480 a sales convention in London, and I remember this marketing director, 0:37:31.600 --> 0:37:34.200 the guy that had hired me, said, look, I'm getting 0:37:34.239 --> 0:37:39.000 fed up with the elitism that exists between the salesforce 0:37:39.239 --> 0:37:42.880 and the marketing group. We're all in this together and 0:37:42.920 --> 0:37:46.120 we're going to go. We're having this convention in London, 0:37:46.880 --> 0:37:50.319 and I want each of you to take out a 0:37:50.400 --> 0:37:55.000 group of salesmen. Remember I thought, isn't that a bit elitist? Right? 0:37:55.719 --> 0:37:58.440 But I didn't say anything, so listen. So I got 0:37:58.480 --> 0:38:00.759 my little group of salesman through a four guys, you know, 0:38:00.880 --> 0:38:03.200 we're all in suits, and I take them to a 0:38:03.239 --> 0:38:08.160 restaurant in Barkley Square. Now I could have walked back 0:38:08.200 --> 0:38:13.040 to the hotel we were staying at ten different ways, okay, 0:38:13.400 --> 0:38:16.080 but for some reason I chose to walk back through 0:38:16.600 --> 0:38:19.800 South Molton Street and which is just off Oxford Streep, 0:38:20.520 --> 0:38:22.520 and we walked out there. S anyways, it's a recording 0:38:22.600 --> 0:38:27.160 studio there that i'd recorded him, and I said to 0:38:27.200 --> 0:38:29.520 this group of salesman, any of you guys ever been 0:38:29.560 --> 0:38:33.279 in a recording studio? And the unsurprising answer was no. 0:38:34.320 --> 0:38:36.480 So I said, I just ring the bell, says everybody 0:38:36.520 --> 0:38:39.399 I know now Barry in mind, it's a good three 0:38:39.480 --> 0:38:43.040 years since I had recorded anything, So I ring the bell. 0:38:43.320 --> 0:38:45.680 There's this Swedish engineering there that I would work with 0:38:45.760 --> 0:38:49.920 called dag Fiona and he was a designer of desks, 0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:53.000 is quite well known in London at the time. So 0:38:53.080 --> 0:38:55.120 he said, oh, well, come on up, you know, coming up. 0:38:55.160 --> 0:38:58.319 You know, I'm just finished off and mixed with this 0:38:58.360 --> 0:39:03.920 Swedish band. So this was what in when did I do? That? 0:39:04.040 --> 0:39:09.520 Must have been sixty eight, yes, sixty eight. So I 0:39:09.600 --> 0:39:11.319 got up there and there's this Swedish group. He's just 0:39:11.360 --> 0:39:14.239 in the mixing stage and the manager is there and 0:39:14.760 --> 0:39:18.600 Dad introduces me to the manager from what I was, 0:39:18.640 --> 0:39:20.440 and the managinon looks at me in a suit with 0:39:20.520 --> 0:39:22.839 these three from Bosos, is what what are you doing? 0:39:23.200 --> 0:39:26.040 What are you doing like that? So I told him. 0:39:26.440 --> 0:39:28.480 He said, well, you know, I want to start a 0:39:28.480 --> 0:39:33.480 record label when you join me. I said okay. Because 0:39:33.480 --> 0:39:36.120 he was a very wealthy Swedish guy, knew who he was. 0:39:36.400 --> 0:39:40.680 His name was orker Erhard Larson and he had a 0:39:40.680 --> 0:39:44.640 record company called Olga Records, which was doing incredibly well 0:39:44.680 --> 0:39:48.080 in the four markets of Scandinavia and the group he 0:39:48.200 --> 0:39:51.759 was in there finish out the recording with was called 0:39:51.760 --> 0:39:56.600 the Hep Stars, which were massive in those markets. I 0:39:56.600 --> 0:39:59.680 mean they had two sets of equipment and they would 0:39:59.680 --> 0:40:03.520 play two places in the day outdoor vessels in the 0:40:03.640 --> 0:40:08.320 very short summer of but they were really big. I 0:40:08.320 --> 0:40:10.800 mean they were selling more records in the Beatles in 0:40:11.120 --> 0:40:15.160 those days. So I agree to join this guy and 0:40:15.200 --> 0:40:20.160 we've start selling Olgor, start trying to market Olga Records 0:40:20.239 --> 0:40:22.840 in England, and I made a distribution deal with the 0:40:23.040 --> 0:40:25.680 M I. But it was impossible. I mean, they had 0:40:25.719 --> 0:40:28.520 some great stuff, but it was just impossible to get 0:40:28.600 --> 0:40:31.279 it off the ground. But you know, by then, you know, 0:40:32.320 --> 0:40:36.600 they noticed me a bit at E M I and 0:40:36.800 --> 0:40:39.719 who were distributors of so many American labels at that 0:40:39.760 --> 0:40:42.719 point before the days when the American labels had their 0:40:42.760 --> 0:40:47.600 own companies. So they introduced me to MGM. So I 0:40:47.640 --> 0:40:51.520 switched from Olga Records to MGM at a great moment 0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:57.279 because that was when Stanley Kubrick was finishing up two one, 0:40:57.800 --> 0:41:01.840 and I actually worked with him on setting up the marketing, 0:41:02.080 --> 0:41:04.520 you know, for two thousand and one, and he was 0:41:04.719 --> 0:41:08.360 absolutely terrific. I mean, my god, what a detail oriented 0:41:08.680 --> 0:41:10.759 chap he turned out to be. But you know, that 0:41:10.880 --> 0:41:15.040 was a good moment for me there, and that lasted 0:41:15.080 --> 0:41:17.080 about six months, and then I started to get these 0:41:17.120 --> 0:41:21.359 calls from this guy called Frank Fenter, and you know, 0:41:21.800 --> 0:41:24.680 he's a South African but he's sort of really very 0:41:24.760 --> 0:41:28.160 hip kind of guy. And he said, man, you know, 0:41:28.640 --> 0:41:33.200 I'm leaving Atlantic Records to go and join the phil Walden. 0:41:33.280 --> 0:41:35.319 We're going to start a record label. We've got this band, 0:41:35.360 --> 0:41:38.399 the Almond Brothers, but they need someone here and heard 0:41:38.440 --> 0:41:41.200 a lot about you, and you know, my my boss 0:41:41.680 --> 0:41:44.440 wants to talk to you. I said, well, okay, But 0:41:44.600 --> 0:41:46.600 by then I kind of got fed up with the 0:41:46.719 --> 0:41:50.480 music business and I've taken an interview with McCann ericson 0:41:51.200 --> 0:41:55.880 right the advertising, and I got the job as a 0:41:56.000 --> 0:42:02.400 count director for two products, Danish bacon they still make 0:42:02.480 --> 0:42:05.320 good bacon, mind you, and Lure Pack butter, which is 0:42:05.360 --> 0:42:08.840 also Danish. They were there were sort of premium brand 0:42:08.920 --> 0:42:12.080 leaders and I was going to be the account director 0:42:12.400 --> 0:42:15.680 for those two brands. Big job, and it was well 0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:18.400 paid for its time too. It was I was going 0:42:18.480 --> 0:42:20.399 to get three and a half thousand pounds a year 0:42:20.840 --> 0:42:24.080 and a company car. To put into perspective, my father, 0:42:24.080 --> 0:42:26.640 who was still at Line's d at this time, was 0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:30.120 an area sales manager with four or five guys working 0:42:30.160 --> 0:42:32.359 for him, and he was making two and a half 0:42:32.400 --> 0:42:36.799 thousand pounds a year, so it was big deal. I'm 0:42:36.840 --> 0:42:39.439 account executive at a big agency is a big deal 0:42:39.520 --> 0:42:42.839 to this day. So I agree to take the job. 0:42:43.360 --> 0:42:45.760 And then I started getting these course from Frank Fender 0:42:45.840 --> 0:42:49.359 and then from this guy form with an unpronounceable name 0:42:49.440 --> 0:42:53.560 that sounded something like no Whosi who Ertie Gertney. So 0:42:53.600 --> 0:42:55.200 it turns out to be a course nessa we heard 0:42:55.200 --> 0:42:58.319 again And I'll never forget that meeting. You know, I 0:42:58.320 --> 0:43:01.200 had to show up in my suitain time. And it's 0:43:01.239 --> 0:43:06.759 at Clarridge's Hotel in London, and he's got a nice 0:43:06.760 --> 0:43:11.239 suite in there, and he's very total gentleman, right, I 0:43:11.320 --> 0:43:15.239 don't The Urticans were fabulous people, but we've talked more 0:43:15.239 --> 0:43:17.319 about that in a moment. But here there he is 0:43:17.920 --> 0:43:21.399 in there's magnificent suite, and he tells me that he's 0:43:21.440 --> 0:43:23.319 heard a lot about me and that he knows I 0:43:23.400 --> 0:43:25.640 was a musician. By the way, Dusty has been signed 0:43:25.680 --> 0:43:28.640 to Atlantic in the interim. So he says, and we 0:43:28.680 --> 0:43:32.319 know you played for Dusty and we're like, you know. 0:43:32.560 --> 0:43:34.480 We talked a bit and he offered me the job 0:43:34.600 --> 0:43:37.879 that this guy was just vacating. I said, I don't 0:43:37.920 --> 0:43:40.759 think so he said why. I said, well, I'm nothing 0:43:40.840 --> 0:43:43.239 like that guy. I'm a marketing guy. It's what I do, 0:43:43.400 --> 0:43:46.719 it's what we want. We want marketing. I said, you know, 0:43:47.120 --> 0:43:50.000 I've taken a job. You know. He says, what. I 0:43:50.040 --> 0:43:52.640 tell him what it is and he said. He looked 0:43:52.640 --> 0:43:56.680 at me in astonishment. He said, you mean you're going 0:43:56.760 --> 0:43:59.840 to turn down Atlantic records to work for a fucking 0:44:00.040 --> 0:44:03.000 he can come. I said, it's not quite like that, 0:44:03.200 --> 0:44:05.640 but you know, yes, I'm turning it down. He said, 0:44:05.840 --> 0:44:08.560 what they paying you? We've got a little bit of 0:44:08.640 --> 0:44:10.920 bright heat going on here. I said, they're paying me 0:44:10.960 --> 0:44:13.560 three and a half thousand pounds and a company car. 0:44:14.280 --> 0:44:17.560 He said, I'm going to do something I've never done before. 0:44:18.360 --> 0:44:22.160 I'll double that. No company car, and don't you dare 0:44:22.200 --> 0:44:24.879 ask me for a race for two years? I mean, 0:44:25.320 --> 0:44:28.879 what can you do? That's how I started. I never 0:44:28.960 --> 0:44:31.640 knew Armored at that time. It was just ness, weary 0:44:31.719 --> 0:44:35.160 and me. Next week by then was head of international 0:44:35.480 --> 0:44:37.960 and the jazz department was what he was reponsible for. 0:44:38.560 --> 0:44:43.680 So I joined Atlantic in uh k In is one 0:44:43.680 --> 0:44:46.239 of the first Zeppelin album comes out. The first had 0:44:46.280 --> 0:44:49.000 been had just been released when I joined, and they 0:44:49.000 --> 0:44:53.319 were working on the second one. So that was when 0:44:53.320 --> 0:44:55.839 I came in, and you know, I thought, oh good, 0:44:55.880 --> 0:44:58.200 this is a great opportunity for me to show what 0:44:58.239 --> 0:45:00.160 I can do. And you know, it was he when 0:45:00.200 --> 0:45:02.759 with the design process of the cover and you know, 0:45:02.880 --> 0:45:06.560 and so forth, and Jerry Greenberg, who is the president 0:45:06.600 --> 0:45:09.600 of Atlantic then and gone to the band and got 0:45:09.600 --> 0:45:13.080 them to put out a whole lot of Loves edited 0:45:13.160 --> 0:45:15.320 version as a single. So I think that's great, this 0:45:15.400 --> 0:45:19.239 is a huge I'll schedule the single, which I do. 0:45:21.280 --> 0:45:23.799 I don't think I've actually met Peter Grant at that 0:45:23.920 --> 0:45:27.040 point either way, but I'm working on the record. I 0:45:27.080 --> 0:45:28.960 think we may have spoken on the phone, but that 0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:32.279 was it. So I put the single out, okay, and 0:45:32.320 --> 0:45:38.960 I get this call from Peter Grant manager Yeah, Phil Carson. 0:45:40.160 --> 0:45:43.640 It starts like that. He was a very heavy dude. 0:45:44.320 --> 0:45:47.319 I want you to come to my office immediately. Ps 0:45:47.360 --> 0:45:51.160 I coached this office and he says, you know, we 0:45:51.200 --> 0:45:53.200 don't want to single out. By then I'd chipped the 0:45:53.239 --> 0:45:55.760 damn thing. By the way, three and a half thousand 0:45:55.800 --> 0:45:58.000 of them. He said, you've got to get him back. 0:45:58.680 --> 0:46:00.080 I said, I'm not going to get him back. This 0:46:00.320 --> 0:46:03.760 is it. You know, I don't care. Jimmy Page doesn't 0:46:03.760 --> 0:46:06.760 care get him back. He ses, you want to phone 0:46:06.800 --> 0:46:10.960 your boss and ask him. So I called, aren't explained 0:46:10.960 --> 0:46:15.640 to her? Do what he tells you? So so I 0:46:15.880 --> 0:46:18.480 get these singles like so we were a bit daggers 0:46:18.560 --> 0:46:22.560 drawn Peter Grant right at the beginning. And by the way, 0:46:22.600 --> 0:46:25.520 I wish that when I got them back, I kept them, 0:46:25.760 --> 0:46:28.880 because you know what they're changing hands for it's like 0:46:29.680 --> 0:46:33.719 hundreds of dollars, but at seven inch anyway, I didn't 0:46:33.800 --> 0:46:36.400 keep them. I destroyed them. So that was how my 0:46:36.520 --> 0:46:39.120 first meeting with Peter. But we actually got to be 0:46:39.239 --> 0:46:42.919 very friendly. And it turns out he lived very close 0:46:42.920 --> 0:46:45.759 to where I was at school, and you know, we 0:46:45.880 --> 0:46:49.480 just we we built a rapport. And that was he 0:46:49.600 --> 0:46:52.520 that intelligent or was the band of that good? Or 0:46:52.560 --> 0:46:55.879 was he just a boy? No? No, actually it's all 0:46:55.960 --> 0:47:01.720 of those, yet so much more highly intelligent man could 0:47:01.719 --> 0:47:06.160 be a major Bully. The band was that good, and 0:47:06.280 --> 0:47:10.040 his mission in life was to let Jimmy Page be 0:47:10.120 --> 0:47:13.920 the creative genius that he is keep everybody else away 0:47:13.960 --> 0:47:17.799 from his band. And that's the way they went about it, 0:47:18.040 --> 0:47:20.279 because by the time I joined, the first own that 0:47:20.400 --> 0:47:23.680 already done pretty well in America, so that they were 0:47:24.320 --> 0:47:27.719 really expecting this the second record to come and it 0:47:27.760 --> 0:47:31.000 was it was going to be big, so that they're 0:47:31.080 --> 0:47:33.720 actually at that point where with Frank Barcelona, the agent, 0:47:34.520 --> 0:47:38.000 Premier Town and Premier Town, and that didn't last long 0:47:38.000 --> 0:47:41.160 because the band was so big they didn't need anybody else. 0:47:41.480 --> 0:47:45.080 And Peter saw what he had. He knew what the mystery, 0:47:45.920 --> 0:47:49.319 how he could create mystery by keeping people away. But 0:47:49.440 --> 0:47:51.520 by that time I got pretty friendly with them, you know, 0:47:51.600 --> 0:47:54.200 so I was I was on the road with them 0:47:54.360 --> 0:47:58.520 most of the time, and Peter quickly realized he had 0:47:58.560 --> 0:48:00.759 some bozo that he didn't have to pay that with 0:48:00.960 --> 0:48:04.000 all the work, you know. So that's how our relationship 0:48:04.200 --> 0:48:06.920 sort of flourished for the first few years there, and 0:48:07.840 --> 0:48:10.040 it was just a magic thing to be part of. 0:48:10.280 --> 0:48:14.760 And until the drugs kicked in, it was an amazing ride. 0:48:15.160 --> 0:48:18.800 I mean, being that close to Led Zeppelin was massive 0:48:18.920 --> 0:48:22.560 for me because I was the conduit to Atlantic. From 0:48:22.560 --> 0:48:25.280 from Atlantic to led Zeppelin, they wouldn't talk to anybody 0:48:25.280 --> 0:48:28.239 else except Armett, So it was you know, I was 0:48:28.320 --> 0:48:31.320 the man you know at that point. Then what about 0:48:31.320 --> 0:48:35.440 the stores coming seventy one? Well, Armett signed the Stones 0:48:36.480 --> 0:48:38.160 and yeah, it was at seventy one. I guess it 0:48:38.239 --> 0:48:41.560 must have been about Yeah, yeah, I was by then 0:48:41.880 --> 0:48:47.920 I was working more for Armett than necessary. Uh, you 0:48:47.920 --> 0:48:53.799 don't understand that the the the corporate culture of Atlantic, 0:48:54.560 --> 0:48:58.960 It was really no corporate culture. It was Jerry Wexler 0:48:59.160 --> 0:49:00.799 who was in the student and most of the time 0:49:01.160 --> 0:49:04.120 still clinging to the last vestiges of R and B. 0:49:04.840 --> 0:49:08.080 And there was Nessui, who by that time was setting 0:49:08.200 --> 0:49:12.239 up worldwide distribution, which I helped him with. I was 0:49:12.239 --> 0:49:14.640 actually on the board of most of the companies at 0:49:14.640 --> 0:49:19.800 the beginning, and Ahmett, who was signing everything English that 0:49:19.960 --> 0:49:24.279 could move. So I was in the right place at 0:49:24.280 --> 0:49:27.640 the right time, which leads me back to what I 0:49:27.680 --> 0:49:30.640 was telling you earlier about the luck factor of being 0:49:30.640 --> 0:49:33.640 an I n R. All these English bands wanted to 0:49:33.719 --> 0:49:37.920 be where a wreath had been, or was an otis 0:49:37.920 --> 0:49:40.480 had been, and Benny King had been and Ray Charles 0:49:40.480 --> 0:49:43.239 had been. They wanted to be on Atlantic Records. So 0:49:43.280 --> 0:49:45.839 the guy running Atlantic Records and have to look very hard. 0:49:46.120 --> 0:49:49.640 People were coming to me. So it was a very 0:49:49.640 --> 0:49:54.239 good people Atltic was not famous for rich dealsite it 0:49:54.320 --> 0:49:58.040 was absolutely the opposite. But we broke English acts in America. 0:49:58.320 --> 0:50:00.920 That's why they wanted to be there. So armed had 0:50:01.880 --> 0:50:09.640 made a deal with with with with Robert Steward. And 0:50:09.680 --> 0:50:13.680 also we were distributed then by Polydor, and so many 0:50:13.680 --> 0:50:16.920 of these the Stigwood artists were all on Polydor. So 0:50:17.040 --> 0:50:20.280 that's how that my office within Polydor at that time, 0:50:20.680 --> 0:50:23.880 and a lot of stuff was coming along. Armored had 0:50:23.920 --> 0:50:27.960 signed Yes by the time I joined the company, and 0:50:28.960 --> 0:50:34.319 we I thought Yes was a great brand, a great band, uh. 0:50:34.920 --> 0:50:39.319 And they recorded the first album yet we simply called Yes, 0:50:39.680 --> 0:50:41.800 right right, but that I think it's called Yes, and 0:50:41.920 --> 0:50:45.200 it has an incredible version of every little thing it does. 0:50:45.320 --> 0:50:48.239 That's right, yeah, it does. So they had a couple 0:50:48.280 --> 0:50:51.120 of cover versions on that album. Then they did Time 0:50:51.160 --> 0:50:54.040 and a Word, which was a total stiff in America. Well, 0:50:54.120 --> 0:50:57.160 they both were so no records. My dad has turned 0:50:57.160 --> 0:50:58.520 me on to the first one is that if I 0:50:58.560 --> 0:51:00.920 would tell everybody about it. Yeah, how funny. Well it 0:51:01.520 --> 0:51:06.120 still didn't, and neither did Time and a Word. But 0:51:06.160 --> 0:51:08.400 by then I was really working this band because I 0:51:08.440 --> 0:51:11.640 thought they were terrific, and we've sold quite a quantity 0:51:11.640 --> 0:51:14.479 of records within Europe. We had like a top five 0:51:14.520 --> 0:51:17.960 in Belgium, which meant maybe four thousand records. I mean, 0:51:18.440 --> 0:51:20.680 nothing to write home about. But like you said, the 0:51:20.719 --> 0:51:25.200 Atlantic deals were not rich deals anyway. So Atlantic dropped 0:51:25.280 --> 0:51:28.879 Yes after Time and a Word okay, and the drop 0:51:28.920 --> 0:51:33.080 notice went out and I called up Nessary as it man, 0:51:34.040 --> 0:51:36.680 we can't let this group go, you know, and he 0:51:36.800 --> 0:51:41.360 supported me, so I resigned. Yes, it's to start with 0:51:41.400 --> 0:51:44.000 the Yes album. That was what was a deal the 0:51:44.080 --> 0:51:46.879 same or words, No, it was pretty much the same. 0:51:46.960 --> 0:51:49.319 I mean, you know, they were desperate, they didn't want 0:51:49.320 --> 0:51:51.560 to get dropped. So when I called up and said, look, 0:51:51.560 --> 0:51:54.919 we're rescinding that the drop notice it was, it went 0:51:54.960 --> 0:51:59.919 down quite well. So we've made another Atlantic record style 0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:04.520 deal for VS. And the first record was was the 0:52:04.600 --> 0:52:10.239 Yes album at that point Brian Lane, yeah, he was 0:52:10.280 --> 0:52:13.319 not the manager before then. No, the manager before there 0:52:13.320 --> 0:52:15.760 was a guy called Roy Flynn who was the general 0:52:15.800 --> 0:52:20.000 manager of the industry, hang out the speak Easy and 0:52:20.040 --> 0:52:25.400 then what had Brian Lane done before? Um? Brian Lane 0:52:25.880 --> 0:52:28.719 before that was not known as Brian Lene was known 0:52:28.760 --> 0:52:32.280 as his real name is Harvey Freed, and Harvey Free 0:52:32.280 --> 0:52:36.840 was a known how can I put this delicately alterer 0:52:36.880 --> 0:52:41.120 of the charts? All right? So he people knew he 0:52:41.160 --> 0:52:45.279 could work a little magic by doing that, and he 0:52:45.760 --> 0:52:48.200 came along and I must say it was his idea 0:52:48.280 --> 0:52:51.160 to call it the Yes album, and really thought, what 0:52:51.200 --> 0:52:53.719 are people going to ask for? Right? So yes, let's 0:52:53.760 --> 0:52:59.520 call it that. So so we did. Um and Brian 0:53:00.320 --> 0:53:03.359 I came to know and love and hate Grin at 0:53:03.360 --> 0:53:06.640 the same time. I've always said he's a man that 0:53:06.680 --> 0:53:09.799 would could tell you a lie when the truth would 0:53:09.800 --> 0:53:12.680 be a positive advantage, right right, I know a couple 0:53:12.719 --> 0:53:15.920 of people. But nonetheless he did a good job, you know, 0:53:16.400 --> 0:53:22.239 and the man was incredible, And I used everything I 0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:25.600 knew to break them in America because the Americans didn't 0:53:25.600 --> 0:53:29.800 give a funk by this time. Okay, was Peter Banks? 0:53:30.160 --> 0:53:33.440 How did how did he leave the band? They fired 0:53:33.520 --> 0:53:36.640 him after the time and a word album and got 0:53:36.680 --> 0:53:40.760 Steve Howin they fired him and we made another record 0:53:40.760 --> 0:53:44.640 with him called Flash, which was good, and there was 0:53:44.719 --> 0:53:49.359 Badger too. Badger was Tony Cabe Tony Cabe and replaced 0:53:49.560 --> 0:53:53.040 by Rick Wakeman, not on the Yes album. Right came later. 0:53:53.120 --> 0:53:57.520 How did he get booted? Well? Tonyk is a great 0:53:57.560 --> 0:54:00.560 Hammond B three player, a really great Hammond be through that. 0:54:01.040 --> 0:54:05.799 Ritt Wolves or Wakeman has so much dimension. You know 0:54:06.040 --> 0:54:08.359 who you're going to get. See. It's an interesting thing 0:54:08.400 --> 0:54:14.320 here Atlantic records all of us that were that era, 0:54:15.000 --> 0:54:19.040 particularly with Jerry Greenberg, who I cannot say enough about. Okay, 0:54:19.400 --> 0:54:23.520 Jerry Greenberg was a fantastic leader of people. He was 0:54:23.640 --> 0:54:25.839 very young, he was like thirty two when he got 0:54:25.840 --> 0:54:29.800 the job running Atlantic, but he knew promotion. He actually 0:54:30.080 --> 0:54:33.839 understood what a hit was, how to get it, how 0:54:33.880 --> 0:54:36.680 to make it work as and a musician as well. 0:54:36.719 --> 0:54:39.080 By the way, he was a drummer. Well it's not 0:54:39.120 --> 0:54:42.600 really a musicians. He was a drummer. But so but 0:54:42.760 --> 0:54:45.800 the drummer is always a business guy. Yeah, that's sometimes 0:54:45.840 --> 0:54:50.319 it's true. That's the last thing a drummer says to 0:54:50.400 --> 0:54:52.359 his band before he leaves his Hey, guys, I've got 0:54:52.360 --> 0:54:55.520 a couple of songs. But that's another story. So he 0:54:55.680 --> 0:54:58.680 was the He was a great leader, so on I 0:54:59.120 --> 0:55:02.399 really really like working with and you know, I'm so 0:55:02.440 --> 0:55:05.240 sorry that when he decided not to do that job anymore. 0:55:05.560 --> 0:55:08.600 And he and I had such a partnership of record 0:55:08.600 --> 0:55:12.279 of recordings. So I digress. We're talking, okay, So when 0:55:12.280 --> 0:55:15.799 you're at Yes, are you an A and R guy 0:55:15.920 --> 0:55:18.600 who signs the ban Are you a marketing guy or 0:55:18.680 --> 0:55:21.480 you the guy goes in the studio and gives recommendations. 0:55:21.719 --> 0:55:25.520 Initially I was the marketing guy, and you know, we 0:55:25.680 --> 0:55:28.839 don't forget that. Ere when I first joined in sixty nine, 0:55:29.160 --> 0:55:32.400 we didn't have w e A internactionally, we were distributed 0:55:32.400 --> 0:55:38.000 through Metronome in in Scandinavia, PolyGram in England and Germany, 0:55:39.560 --> 0:55:42.560 different labels all over Europe. So my job was just 0:55:43.120 --> 0:55:46.960 cultivating those independent companies and make sure they worked on 0:55:47.040 --> 0:55:50.480 Atlantic records. So yes, it was marketing, but I was 0:55:50.560 --> 0:55:54.160 also there to spot English talent that we could sign 0:55:54.239 --> 0:55:57.000 just for America, because the deals would be even cheaper 0:55:57.040 --> 0:55:58.840 if we didn't do it for the world, because you 0:55:58.880 --> 0:56:00.960 only pay half as for the rest of the world. 0:56:01.040 --> 0:56:04.600 So that's what my job was. And as a musician, 0:56:04.680 --> 0:56:06.759 of course, you know, I was able to go into 0:56:06.760 --> 0:56:09.359 a studio and make recommendations. So when I say it 0:56:09.400 --> 0:56:13.480 was very much involved in the Yes album. In fact, 0:56:13.520 --> 0:56:17.680 the engineer that I introduced him to Eddie Offord, because 0:56:17.880 --> 0:56:23.040 Eddie was a tape op at that recording studio that 0:56:23.080 --> 0:56:26.600 I told you about the practical advision and one of 0:56:26.600 --> 0:56:31.319 the jobs I had before I joined the Atlantic. It 0:56:31.400 --> 0:56:34.759 was while I was still making records. This was before 0:56:34.760 --> 0:56:38.160 I tried General Foods. Actually was making cover versions for 0:56:38.200 --> 0:56:41.480 wal Wass of hit albums. And I had this tiny 0:56:41.560 --> 0:56:44.239 budget and I had to make an album in a night, 0:56:44.680 --> 0:56:49.680 a whole album. So I would book Eddie with the tapeop, 0:56:50.840 --> 0:56:53.520 but he was also a budgeting engineer, So I book 0:56:54.000 --> 0:56:58.200 advision studios from eight to ten for two hours and 0:56:58.239 --> 0:57:02.440 then eleven to one for two hours, okay, knowing that 0:57:02.480 --> 0:57:05.400 nobody's going to be there, Okay, So we were just 0:57:06.239 --> 0:57:08.080 I bought a reel of eight track. Eight track had 0:57:08.120 --> 0:57:10.640 just come out by then, and we had my own 0:57:10.680 --> 0:57:13.919 eight track tape. We put it on and we would 0:57:14.040 --> 0:57:17.080 make an album in a night. We did that, then 0:57:17.120 --> 0:57:19.520 he would mix it in a night too. Everything done 0:57:19.960 --> 0:57:25.120 finished in a night between eight o'clock and six am 0:57:25.160 --> 0:57:27.640 in the morning when the cleaners came in, and I 0:57:27.680 --> 0:57:30.800 had problem musicians, by the way, the top session players 0:57:31.040 --> 0:57:34.240 to get the tracks done and then we just well 0:57:34.280 --> 0:57:36.960 that's how mud Lang started to doing cover record. I 0:57:36.960 --> 0:57:41.040 think it is South America, South Africa. So okay, So 0:57:41.200 --> 0:57:43.760 when you so anyway, I knew. That's how I told 0:57:43.800 --> 0:57:46.200 you you Eddie, and I introduced Eddie to the band 0:57:46.240 --> 0:57:51.320 and he became the producer for years. Okay, So what 0:57:51.440 --> 0:57:54.920 were you involved in in that era Atlantic that was 0:57:55.000 --> 0:57:58.720 not successful that you thought was going to go Well, 0:57:58.800 --> 0:58:01.000 I'm going to tell you about, but can we tell 0:58:01.000 --> 0:58:02.840 you about a couple of the sex success I was 0:58:02.880 --> 0:58:04.920 going to go there, I figured, Okay, a couple of 0:58:04.960 --> 0:58:08.720 success right, Okay, well I suppose yet how I broke 0:58:08.800 --> 0:58:11.680 yes in America was because I was the guy that 0:58:11.800 --> 0:58:14.720 was taking Jimmy Page or Robert Plant, Scott Mooney you 0:58:14.720 --> 0:58:18.120 know for the hour long in New York City. Yeah, 0:58:18.240 --> 0:58:21.680 and then up in Boston w b C N with 0:58:21.960 --> 0:58:25.400 Edipus up there. So these guys became my friends. So 0:58:25.600 --> 0:58:28.800 I would be able to get new stuff with these guys. 0:58:28.840 --> 0:58:32.000 So they gave yes the time of day, and that's 0:58:32.040 --> 0:58:35.280 how that really started. Breaking because Atlantic was not interested. 0:58:35.480 --> 0:58:38.560 I've gone against the A and R. They dropped them, 0:58:38.600 --> 0:58:41.120 so now they're going forced to work them again. I 0:58:41.120 --> 0:58:45.040 mean Jerry Greenberg was extremely supportive, but the rest of 0:58:45.080 --> 0:58:47.800 them were not so supportive. But so you heard round 0:58:47.800 --> 0:58:49.840 About as a hit. I thought round About it was 0:58:49.880 --> 0:58:52.080 a great song. Okay. So then when they start to 0:58:52.080 --> 0:58:55.960 go off the rails, they do Tales from Topic, Graphic Oceans, 0:58:56.000 --> 0:58:58.920 they do the three that's two albums, then they do 0:58:58.960 --> 0:59:01.320 a three album live set. Were you supported of that? 0:59:01.320 --> 0:59:03.800 Were you telling them, well, this is too much? Well, 0:59:03.840 --> 0:59:06.440 you know, it's progressive music. You know in England is 0:59:06.480 --> 0:59:10.360 a hot? Was the hot the birthplace really a progress music? 0:59:10.440 --> 0:59:13.240 I kind of like what they were doing. And you 0:59:13.320 --> 0:59:15.440 talk about that three albums, that it was the biggest 0:59:15.440 --> 0:59:18.280 album in the history of our German record company, that 0:59:18.400 --> 0:59:21.120 German's love of three albums set for some reason. So 0:59:21.800 --> 0:59:23.800 you know, so there was no trying to talk them down. 0:59:23.800 --> 0:59:25.960 Will some more as a single or something like that. 0:59:26.160 --> 0:59:31.040 Not really obviously we wanted singles, but it wasn't to be. 0:59:31.120 --> 0:59:34.800 And of course eventually you know, the yes thing fell 0:59:34.840 --> 0:59:38.600 apart as well. It just okay, so how w when 0:59:38.640 --> 0:59:41.760 did you leave Atlantic Records. I left at the end 0:59:41.800 --> 0:59:44.360 of Okay, so let's go back. Okay. You had success 0:59:44.400 --> 0:59:46.280 with Yes, and then we were going to see another one. 0:59:47.560 --> 0:59:51.520 I signed Virgin Records to Atlantic. Wow, that's a big deal. Yeah, 0:59:51.600 --> 0:59:57.400 it was. My then wife was running a TV show 0:59:57.440 --> 0:59:59.760 called The Old Gray Whistle Test, which is a legendar, 1:00:00.240 --> 1:00:04.480 legendary show, and her and the producer decided that they 1:00:04.480 --> 1:00:06.440 were going to put a piece of music on that 1:00:06.760 --> 1:00:10.040 someone had brought into them that day. And those days, 1:00:10.040 --> 1:00:13.440 this is really very early on. It's before videos. So 1:00:13.520 --> 1:00:17.320 this show had a DJ, had a live band in 1:00:17.360 --> 1:00:20.280 the studio and they would play new music. Where they 1:00:20.280 --> 1:00:24.000 put old film to new music was quite clever. Clever 1:00:24.080 --> 1:00:26.880 the way they did that. And then there's the producers 1:00:27.240 --> 1:00:30.200 worked out that any piece of film if fits any 1:00:30.200 --> 1:00:34.360 piece of music, eventually it was seen. So they had 1:00:34.360 --> 1:00:37.480 this old a lot of old film they used. This 1:00:37.560 --> 1:00:40.680 particularly one was an old skiing thing, you know. And 1:00:41.760 --> 1:00:44.040 you know, I was a bad boy in those days, 1:00:44.040 --> 1:00:46.280 you know, And I knew that Tuesday nights when the 1:00:46.280 --> 1:00:48.920 show was live, that was my date night because I 1:00:48.960 --> 1:00:51.920 know where I'm going to get caught. You girlfriend was 1:00:51.960 --> 1:00:55.840 in the studio, so She called me one Tuesday afternoon 1:00:55.840 --> 1:00:59.440 when i'm, you know, getting ready to go out, and 1:00:59.480 --> 1:01:01.400 she says, you have to come into the show tonight. 1:01:01.440 --> 1:01:03.520 You know, there's someone you really got to meet. He's 1:01:03.560 --> 1:01:07.000 bought in this piece of music and you've got to hear. 1:01:07.040 --> 1:01:09.320 And I didn't know what it was, and side going 1:01:09.360 --> 1:01:11.760 there and I'm astonished by this piece of music. And 1:01:11.800 --> 1:01:14.240 the guys she wanted me to meet was Richard Branson. 1:01:15.240 --> 1:01:17.440 So I made a deal with Richard on the spot. 1:01:17.840 --> 1:01:22.200 I signed Virgin Records for a hundred and twenty five dollars, 1:01:22.360 --> 1:01:24.000 you know, and they were with us for ten years, 1:01:24.040 --> 1:01:26.800 with Atlantic for ten years and too. And now this 1:01:26.880 --> 1:01:29.400 is the thing about this guy, Jerry Greenberg, who I 1:01:29.440 --> 1:01:33.560 know you've interviewed. So I said to him, look, I've signed. 1:01:33.600 --> 1:01:37.720 I know this is unusual. I've signed this album which 1:01:37.800 --> 1:01:40.840 is totally instrumental. He said, We've got no chance with 1:01:40.920 --> 1:01:44.560 that in America. I said, look, it's groundbreaking, trust me. 1:01:45.200 --> 1:01:47.040 So he gets to work. He says, you're right, it 1:01:47.160 --> 1:01:51.280 is fantastic. It sounds like a movie soundtrack. So I said, 1:01:51.280 --> 1:01:53.960 well that's a good idea. You know. He goes to 1:01:54.040 --> 1:01:58.360 Warner Brothers. The Exhortist had just been made, and the 1:01:58.400 --> 1:02:02.120 Exhortist soundtrack was cut, done with an orchestra as at 1:02:02.160 --> 1:02:05.800 great cost. He plays this or somehow someone who gets 1:02:05.800 --> 1:02:09.040 it to what's in a really freaking freaking and he says, 1:02:09.160 --> 1:02:12.360 that's going to be my soundtrack. That is how Tubular 1:02:12.400 --> 1:02:16.200 Bells broke totally down to Jerry Greenberg, right, And I 1:02:16.200 --> 1:02:19.360 think Atlantic, so like twenty million, there was something unbelievable 1:02:19.440 --> 1:02:29.960 figure out it was really incredible. Okay, And you're going 1:02:30.000 --> 1:02:32.840 to talk about a couple of missus, you have to 1:02:32.880 --> 1:02:38.040 go there yet, Okay, Well, Paul Kosos band was totally start. 1:02:38.760 --> 1:02:44.840 I suppose my biggest miss ever was the reconstituted Small 1:02:44.880 --> 1:02:48.960 Faces with Stevie Marritt, you know, Ian mccleagan, Steve Marriott, 1:02:50.040 --> 1:02:54.120 Kenny Jones and Rick Wills on base and I thought 1:02:54.120 --> 1:02:56.360 we made a pretty good record. I had to buy 1:02:56.440 --> 1:02:58.880 them out of A and M and it just went 1:02:59.080 --> 1:03:04.360 absolutely where nowhere. So that was okay. So how does 1:03:04.360 --> 1:03:10.800 it end with Atlantic? Um? It ended fives with the 1:03:10.880 --> 1:03:13.800 last year I was involved in any way with the 1:03:13.840 --> 1:03:19.240 mainstream Atlantic. Uh. Mick Jones really a foreigner far and 1:03:19.360 --> 1:03:22.160 up and was getting an Award at a TV show 1:03:22.200 --> 1:03:24.919 called The Tube, which it took place in a town 1:03:24.920 --> 1:03:30.280 called Newcastle, New New Newcastle to London is a bit 1:03:30.400 --> 1:03:33.640 like Pittsburgh is to New York. You don't want to 1:03:33.640 --> 1:03:36.560 go there. But the TV show was being done from 1:03:37.400 --> 1:03:42.160 from New York, from from newcasts Newcastle. So Mix says 1:03:42.200 --> 1:03:44.440 to me, look, I'll go. You know, you've got to 1:03:44.440 --> 1:03:49.160 come with me. I said, okay, all right, uh, and 1:03:49.200 --> 1:03:52.120 we've got to get a private plane. Well what the funk? 1:03:52.160 --> 1:03:54.680 I mean, little did he know they were gonna I 1:03:54.680 --> 1:03:57.360 was gonna recharge the front of the royalty account anyway, 1:03:57.440 --> 1:03:59.960 So we got a little plane and we go up 1:04:00.080 --> 1:04:04.000 to to the Tube and you know what it's like 1:04:04.040 --> 1:04:05.760 with TV shows, there's a hell of a lot of 1:04:05.800 --> 1:04:09.600 hanging about. This particular one was a live show, but 1:04:09.680 --> 1:04:12.560 they would have a live run through with one audience 1:04:12.600 --> 1:04:15.120 and then then kick the audience out and kind of 1:04:15.120 --> 1:04:18.160 like I said, l still does it today. That's what 1:04:18.200 --> 1:04:20.680 they do. So this is the same sort of thing. 1:04:21.200 --> 1:04:24.520 So I'm just wasting time. You know, I've found an office. 1:04:24.520 --> 1:04:26.320 There was no one in it, so I'm start going 1:04:26.360 --> 1:04:29.080 on the phone and doing work, you know, calling America. 1:04:29.200 --> 1:04:31.560 This not the other. Then I hear an American voice 1:04:31.560 --> 1:04:34.160 that I kind of recognize doing exactly the same thing 1:04:34.320 --> 1:04:37.000 in another vacant office. Turns out to be a chack 1:04:37.080 --> 1:04:41.480 on Mark Puma. Mark Human was a runner for led Zeppelins, 1:04:41.560 --> 1:04:43.760 and I've worked with him a lot in the concerts 1:04:43.760 --> 1:04:47.040 Eastern concert West days. So I said, what you're doing? 1:04:47.040 --> 1:04:49.120 I said, well, I've got this band and you know 1:04:49.200 --> 1:04:52.480 we're doing the show tonight. Said what they called it's 1:04:52.480 --> 1:04:55.680 a Twisted Sister. Now I've never heard of Twisted Sister. 1:04:55.760 --> 1:04:59.120 But I see them, this group of you know guys 1:04:59.160 --> 1:05:01.680 would make up, you know, they're all seven ft tall 1:05:01.840 --> 1:05:05.200 walking around the place. And he says, yeah, well, you know, 1:05:05.320 --> 1:05:08.000 we've really want to get signed in England. I made 1:05:08.000 --> 1:05:11.919 a deal with a with a independent label, but I've 1:05:11.920 --> 1:05:14.520 got to do something. And we we we spent out 1:05:14.560 --> 1:05:17.240 to be honest, we spent our last money getting over 1:05:17.320 --> 1:05:20.600 here to see if we can get signed. So I said, 1:05:20.840 --> 1:05:23.520 will I take a look at him? Meanwhile, I mixed 1:05:23.560 --> 1:05:26.120 on a break. I said, oh, I've just met Mark Humor, 1:05:26.200 --> 1:05:29.400 you know, and he has got this group called Twisted System. 1:05:29.520 --> 1:05:32.160 Mixed sense to me, twist his sister. They're all over 1:05:32.200 --> 1:05:35.640 the radio in New York. Little did I know, and 1:05:35.680 --> 1:05:37.680 nor did he that on the radio because J J. 1:05:37.880 --> 1:05:42.280 French the guitar the guitar player had inveigled away to 1:05:42.480 --> 1:05:46.960 buy time cheaply on w n W. And although we 1:05:46.960 --> 1:05:50.160 were playing with a you know that the hook of 1:05:50.480 --> 1:05:53.640 one of their songs. So Mick thought this was an airplayer, 1:05:53.680 --> 1:05:56.880 which it actually wasn't. So I thought, that's interesting. So 1:05:56.920 --> 1:05:59.200 I'll go down there and I'll watch them and the 1:05:59.560 --> 1:06:01.840 run through. I mean, the songs are pretty good. I 1:06:01.880 --> 1:06:03.960 mean they're not pushing the barriers of rock and roll 1:06:04.120 --> 1:06:08.520 any further forward, you know, but there's they had something. 1:06:08.560 --> 1:06:11.320 And then in the show when it went like my god, 1:06:11.360 --> 1:06:15.360 they were good. They were really good. So the Marxist, look, 1:06:15.400 --> 1:06:20.200 we're doing the Marquee on Thursday shows on Tuesday. Okay, Mark, 1:06:20.280 --> 1:06:23.640 he was really an opinion making place in London, helped 1:06:23.680 --> 1:06:27.439 hell about five hundred people something like that. So he said, 1:06:27.480 --> 1:06:29.600 would you come down and see the band? I said, sure. 1:06:30.400 --> 1:06:33.640 I get to the market. It is packed. And I 1:06:33.800 --> 1:06:35.800 missed a rock and roll in London, right. I was 1:06:35.800 --> 1:06:38.360 signed these bands and I thought I knew everything you 1:06:39.000 --> 1:06:44.320 still do to that. So anyway, they killed the audience 1:06:44.360 --> 1:06:48.320 because on the live TV show, de Snyder was restrained, 1:06:48.480 --> 1:06:51.880 not so in the Marquis. My god. They were a 1:06:51.920 --> 1:06:55.800 great live band, and they looked brutal up there, you know, brutal. 1:06:56.640 --> 1:06:59.600 So at the end of it, Mark, Mark, who necessarily, 1:06:59.640 --> 1:07:01.360 what do you I said, Okay, I'll sign them, and 1:07:01.440 --> 1:07:05.600 he looked at me in astonishment. I said, what to Atlantic, 1:07:06.320 --> 1:07:09.200 Well that's where I work. Sure, He said, you've got 1:07:09.200 --> 1:07:10.520 to come back and meet that. I said, I do 1:07:10.600 --> 1:07:13.640 not want to meet the band. I will sign the band. Okay. 1:07:14.040 --> 1:07:16.320 I'm going to give you enough to make the record, 1:07:16.840 --> 1:07:20.280 no advance beyond that, okay. In those says it was 1:07:20.280 --> 1:07:21.960 a bit more expensive to make it records than it 1:07:22.040 --> 1:07:25.880 is of course perversely, but you know, I'll do that. 1:07:26.000 --> 1:07:28.600 It's don't look for a big deal, but I will 1:07:28.600 --> 1:07:31.120 sign the band. So eventually he persuades me to come 1:07:31.120 --> 1:07:33.160 and meet them. But of course they're nothing like that. 1:07:34.480 --> 1:07:38.200 Dee Snyder is. You know, he's a great guy, one 1:07:38.240 --> 1:07:41.240 of my best friends to this day. So you know, 1:07:41.360 --> 1:07:44.400 we get talking and I make the deal, and my deal. 1:07:45.120 --> 1:07:48.520 I didn't call up Jimmy Page, who owned the Soul Studios, 1:07:48.920 --> 1:07:51.520 which had two bedrooms in it. So I said, you, 1:07:51.760 --> 1:07:53.440 I've signed this band. I wanted you to give me 1:07:53.480 --> 1:07:55.760 a decent rate, saying okay, sure, and I want to 1:07:55.840 --> 1:07:59.440 use your engineer, Stewart Apps. So he made me a 1:07:59.560 --> 1:08:03.040 very reasonable deal. But still, you know, it's a residential studio, 1:08:03.440 --> 1:08:05.400 you know. And the deal I made for these guys 1:08:05.480 --> 1:08:09.320 was sixty dollars that included flying them over to England 1:08:09.360 --> 1:08:14.600 and back the studio time, everything sixty. So I make 1:08:14.680 --> 1:08:19.320 the deal, okay. The next Tuesday is the lawyers lunch 1:08:19.400 --> 1:08:22.320 day at Atlantic Records. The lawyers lunch days, I think 1:08:22.320 --> 1:08:25.600 they still have it, and is about fourteen of the 1:08:25.640 --> 1:08:29.240 business side of Atlantic in their plus whoever is the 1:08:29.280 --> 1:08:32.920 president or chairman at it would occasionally join it. It's 1:08:33.120 --> 1:08:36.960 where they go over the business things of the of 1:08:37.040 --> 1:08:42.040 the time. So if I've got anything, if I wasn't there, 1:08:42.560 --> 1:08:45.760 I would call in, you know. So I got in 1:08:45.800 --> 1:08:47.720 the room. It's one of the big conference rooms with 1:08:47.800 --> 1:08:50.200 the you know, little speaker in the middle of you 1:08:50.360 --> 1:08:54.320 visualize it, and fourteen lawyers and business affairs people sitting 1:08:54.320 --> 1:08:57.840 around there in this particular day, Doug Morris chairing it, 1:08:57.960 --> 1:09:01.880 you know. So he's um, he said, oh, Phil, what 1:09:01.880 --> 1:09:04.600 what do you guys? So what, I've signed a band. 1:09:04.760 --> 1:09:07.040 It's a great, great good. Yeah, you're You're always good 1:09:07.040 --> 1:09:10.600 at that, you know. So I said, yeah, yeah, but 1:09:10.840 --> 1:09:13.880 this is an American banker, American band. You signed an 1:09:13.920 --> 1:09:16.679 American banding And I said, yeah, they did this TV show, 1:09:16.720 --> 1:09:19.599 they destroyed the place, and you know, I've made a 1:09:19.720 --> 1:09:23.719 very reasonable deal. He said, what are they called? I said, 1:09:23.760 --> 1:09:28.720 twisted sister. He said, twisted fucking sister. I've turned that 1:09:28.760 --> 1:09:32.920 band down five times. There's a kid in here. Jason 1:09:33.040 --> 1:09:37.280 Flom thinks they're like I've told him he's fired. If 1:09:37.320 --> 1:09:42.360 ever he mentioned them again. So I don't, Doug, I 1:09:42.439 --> 1:09:44.679 really don't know about that. But you know I've signed 1:09:44.720 --> 1:09:47.559 them and that's it. Like I did tell you, I 1:09:47.600 --> 1:09:49.840 was mouth Almighty and Night earlier on and this was 1:09:49.880 --> 1:09:52.920 no exception. And I remember him saying to me, on 1:09:53.040 --> 1:09:55.840 your own head. Then this is really early days for 1:09:56.000 --> 1:10:00.719 Doug nineteen eighty three, so, and he had not signed 1:10:00.720 --> 1:10:04.559 anything right that point. So I said, oh, yeah, Doug, 1:10:04.640 --> 1:10:06.960 on my own head, is it? You know, like yes, 1:10:07.280 --> 1:10:10.599 Emerson Lake and Palmer, A C, d C. On my 1:10:10.640 --> 1:10:12.880 own head, like that is it? And you could hear 1:10:13.200 --> 1:10:17.639 the silence echoing over three thousand miles of telephone lines. 1:10:18.200 --> 1:10:20.920 And that was the beginning of the end from my 1:10:21.000 --> 1:10:26.000 relationship with Doug Morris. So I signed Twist his sister. 1:10:26.479 --> 1:10:29.839 I called up Jason Flom, who reminded me of something. 1:10:30.600 --> 1:10:34.240 He said, you signed my band. I said, yeah, Doug 1:10:34.320 --> 1:10:36.200 told me that, you know, he was going to fire 1:10:36.240 --> 1:10:38.479 you if if you mentioned them again. What do you 1:10:38.479 --> 1:10:41.280 mean your band? He said, don't you remember one day 1:10:41.320 --> 1:10:44.759 you were you were in the office and I gave 1:10:44.800 --> 1:10:48.519 you a package. I said, yeah, I vaguely remember that. 1:10:48.560 --> 1:10:51.720 And I did remember it, because you know what I do. 1:10:51.800 --> 1:10:54.080 I used to get the eight o'clock flight in the 1:10:54.120 --> 1:10:58.599 evening back to England, and he had given me this package, 1:10:58.600 --> 1:11:01.840 as he so rightly said. And I'm sitting in my 1:11:01.880 --> 1:11:05.200 first class seat, you know, sipping my first class champagne 1:11:05.240 --> 1:11:09.000 and about to enjoy my first class caveat, and I 1:11:09.000 --> 1:11:11.680 think I better listen to the little Jason's stuff, you 1:11:11.720 --> 1:11:14.920 know in those days that I think Walkerman had just 1:11:15.120 --> 1:11:18.000 come out at about that time. So I opened this 1:11:18.040 --> 1:11:20.360 package he gave me, and the first thing I pull 1:11:20.479 --> 1:11:25.599 out is like a a a cassette. Then I pull 1:11:25.680 --> 1:11:28.360 out a picture of this, this band, this before I 1:11:28.360 --> 1:11:32.600 had seen in women's clothing, you know. And then the 1:11:32.640 --> 1:11:38.120 next sample is this stenographer's pad, about eight pages of 1:11:38.320 --> 1:11:42.200 closely written notes by Jason for about this band. And 1:11:42.240 --> 1:11:44.360 I took one look at the picture and one look 1:11:44.400 --> 1:11:46.840 at the memo, and I look at my champagne and 1:11:46.880 --> 1:11:49.320 caviare and I threw the whole lot in an airline 1:11:49.360 --> 1:11:51.800 trash back right, so I didn't even know it was. 1:11:52.800 --> 1:11:56.120 But I will give him this. You know, he has 1:11:56.160 --> 1:11:58.479 claimed he signed to his his sister. He did not, 1:11:59.080 --> 1:12:02.320 but without any shadow of doubt, he broke twist his 1:12:02.439 --> 1:12:05.400 sister because he made it a mission. He was going 1:12:05.400 --> 1:12:10.200 around putting up hosters himself everywhere. And you know that 1:12:10.280 --> 1:12:14.439 nobody cared except Jason Flam about this band, and he 1:12:14.520 --> 1:12:16.840 did it on his own. And we got that first 1:12:16.840 --> 1:12:19.680 album up to two hundred thousand or whatever it was, 1:12:19.680 --> 1:12:23.760 which is enough to make the next album grudging Lee, 1:12:24.040 --> 1:12:28.439 you know, from digging and so forth. And that was 1:12:28.479 --> 1:12:31.519 a big, big moment really, because the second album did 1:12:31.560 --> 1:12:33.439 have songs on it and Doug got behind it. But 1:12:33.640 --> 1:12:37.280 just remembering someone some little thing after I had made 1:12:37.600 --> 1:12:41.400 got them in the studio Uh. We were making the 1:12:41.479 --> 1:12:44.000 record and I realized there was a song on there 1:12:44.040 --> 1:12:46.400 that could be a hit single. So I said, to 1:12:46.479 --> 1:12:49.519 look what we're gonna do. We track everything, then we're 1:12:49.560 --> 1:12:52.880 going to concentrate on I Am, I'm me. We're going 1:12:52.920 --> 1:12:55.920 to finish it up, mix it, get it done before 1:12:55.960 --> 1:13:00.120 we address any overdubs, mixes of anything else, and some 1:13:00.479 --> 1:13:04.360 Jimmy's studio. Six weeks we do this and it sounds great. 1:13:04.960 --> 1:13:07.200 So then I got them a gig at the Marquis 1:13:07.240 --> 1:13:10.240 because people wanted to have the band back. So I said, 1:13:10.240 --> 1:13:12.479 we're going to do two nights of the Marquee. We're 1:13:12.479 --> 1:13:15.760 going to record it live. Okay, the B side of 1:13:15.840 --> 1:13:18.679 a twelve inch version of single will be twenty minutes 1:13:18.680 --> 1:13:22.160 of Twitter's Sister Life. So the result of all this 1:13:22.240 --> 1:13:24.920 is I went a little over budget to deal with 1:13:25.000 --> 1:13:28.760 sixty THO. I think I came in at seventy two 1:13:28.800 --> 1:13:33.320 thousand on us and I called up Sheldon Vogel, who 1:13:33.400 --> 1:13:37.000 was the financial actually vice chairman of Atlantic, who was, 1:13:37.040 --> 1:13:40.519 you know, really enamored by Doug Morrison those days, not 1:13:40.640 --> 1:13:44.320 so much later, but in those days, and he we 1:13:44.640 --> 1:13:48.400 have the hell of a row, he said, he said, 1:13:48.400 --> 1:13:52.599 I've just got this invoice here from Soul Studios and 1:13:52.840 --> 1:13:55.439 we're not going to pay it. I said, what do 1:13:55.479 --> 1:13:57.200 you mean you're not going to pay it? He said, well, 1:13:57.240 --> 1:14:00.519 you're twelve thousand over budget. I've paid rest of it. 1:14:00.640 --> 1:14:04.200 I'm not paying the overage. I said, well, you do 1:14:04.320 --> 1:14:07.240 realize this is Jimmy Page's studio. Dude, I don't care 1:14:07.240 --> 1:14:10.479 whose studio it is. I'm not paying it. So I said, 1:14:10.479 --> 1:14:13.599 we'll just put me through to arm it. Now you've 1:14:13.600 --> 1:14:15.479 got to realize I was kind of the golden boy. 1:14:16.479 --> 1:14:18.240 It was like a lot of people thought I was 1:14:18.320 --> 1:14:22.200 arm it's illegitimate, but I wasn't as far as I know. 1:14:22.680 --> 1:14:26.320 So you know, we've he said, that would be ridiculous. 1:14:26.360 --> 1:14:29.360 Just you know, pay it yourself and I'll reimburse. So 1:14:29.560 --> 1:14:32.400 I took care of it, and that was a bit 1:14:32.439 --> 1:14:34.880 of a rough moment for me at the company I 1:14:34.920 --> 1:14:38.000 worked for, but by then I didn't care, because you know, 1:14:38.760 --> 1:14:42.720 I was fireproof, still the only person Led Zeppelin would 1:14:42.720 --> 1:14:45.720 speak to, and this huge track record of artists that 1:14:45.720 --> 1:14:48.360 I've signed, so it didn't really bother me at all. 1:14:48.960 --> 1:14:52.400 So the Twisted Sister Record came out to great business 1:14:52.479 --> 1:14:59.439 of course, and I thought, well, you know, I think 1:14:59.439 --> 1:15:02.759 I want to make a break. And at that point 1:15:02.880 --> 1:15:06.800 both Jumy Page and Robert Plant had asked me to 1:15:06.840 --> 1:15:10.800 manage them, so did a number of other artists. So 1:15:10.840 --> 1:15:12.479 I thought, well, how can I kind of use this 1:15:12.560 --> 1:15:19.280 to my advantage? So I called up. I said to Atlantic, Look, 1:15:19.640 --> 1:15:22.479 the need for an office in London is diminished, you 1:15:22.520 --> 1:15:26.360 know lately, because all the big English bands you know, 1:15:26.600 --> 1:15:31.400 on on the way out whatever. You know. I'd like 1:15:31.439 --> 1:15:35.559 to have my own record label. So Doug thought this 1:15:35.640 --> 1:15:39.120 was a great idea because then I'm outside the mainstream 1:15:39.160 --> 1:15:43.880 of Atlantic, so there's no threat of any kind. So 1:15:44.280 --> 1:15:46.599 I will never forget the meeting that we had when 1:15:46.600 --> 1:15:49.000 we did this. I said, look, I just wanted like 1:15:49.080 --> 1:15:52.160 a reasonable deal. But I was making quite a lot 1:15:52.200 --> 1:15:54.720 of money back in those days. But I want a 1:15:54.720 --> 1:15:56.880 reasonable deal. I want some kind of salary. Doesn't have 1:15:56.920 --> 1:15:59.080 to be what you're paying now, but I just want, 1:15:59.160 --> 1:16:03.880 you know, to any the office paid for, you know, 1:16:04.080 --> 1:16:07.439 And I want to set up a record label. But 1:16:07.560 --> 1:16:09.920 I also, you know, want to manage any artist that's 1:16:09.960 --> 1:16:15.439 on Atlantic. I know I've already got okay, So Doug 1:16:15.520 --> 1:16:17.960 couldn't wait to make the damn deal. He really couldn't. 1:16:18.000 --> 1:16:21.400 And Steve Weiss was my attorney in those days, legendary 1:16:21.439 --> 1:16:25.280 guy as you know, led Zeppelin, Vanilla Fudge, Dustry Springfield. 1:16:25.320 --> 1:16:29.840 Even so, he's there and we're getting everything we want. 1:16:30.320 --> 1:16:32.920 And I could see that this steam coming out of 1:16:33.000 --> 1:16:36.080 Sheldon Vocals is because I make a three year deal, 1:16:36.920 --> 1:16:39.400 which still was quite a lot of money, even though 1:16:39.439 --> 1:16:44.320 I took a lower salary. So it's Steve is packing 1:16:44.400 --> 1:16:46.559 up his stuff, you know that. And I said, Steve, 1:16:46.640 --> 1:16:50.439 you've forgotten something, you know? He said, quick as a flash, 1:16:50.439 --> 1:16:52.439 he said, oh yeah, why don't you tell them? Okay? 1:16:52.760 --> 1:16:55.400 I said, yeah, Well, I've been here quite a length 1:16:55.439 --> 1:16:57.599 of time. I had some big success with you guys. 1:16:58.160 --> 1:17:02.160 I think a terminal bonus is in order. And Sheldon 1:17:02.320 --> 1:17:06.720 looks at me incredulously. He's one of my closest friends now, 1:17:06.760 --> 1:17:08.280 by the way, I mean, I've got on prairie well 1:17:08.320 --> 1:17:11.919 with him. But he looked at me incredulously. A terminal bonus, 1:17:13.080 --> 1:17:16.200 I mean, you've got everything you've asked for. What do 1:17:16.240 --> 1:17:19.240 you want? And I said half a million dollars he's 1:17:19.240 --> 1:17:22.040 got his legal batty threw it on the floor. I 1:17:22.040 --> 1:17:24.280 didn't get half a billion dollars, but I did get 1:17:24.320 --> 1:17:28.280 a terminal bonus and how much was it? But it 1:17:28.360 --> 1:17:30.360 wasn't half a billion dollars to leave me, but I 1:17:30.400 --> 1:17:34.559 got something. So I started this record label, and I 1:17:34.640 --> 1:17:38.000 knew that it was not going to be easy, so 1:17:38.360 --> 1:17:43.479 I wasn't that active about signing anything. But by then 1:17:44.800 --> 1:17:46.800 all the English bands that I had anything to do 1:17:46.840 --> 1:17:48.519 with and something that I had nothing to do with, 1:17:48.840 --> 1:17:51.639 wanted to be with me. So I opened a management 1:17:51.640 --> 1:17:55.400 company with Jimmy Page Robert Plant, both with their own 1:17:55.479 --> 1:17:58.960 solo albums, Bad Company, which I was in partnership with 1:17:59.040 --> 1:18:04.640 Bud breaker Um who was motorhead. Uh. That's how that 1:18:04.680 --> 1:18:07.960 company started. So I had a big deal going from 1:18:08.000 --> 1:18:10.920 the beginning. And then of course I've formed the firm 1:18:10.960 --> 1:18:14.880 between Jimmy and Paul Rodgers. So I had a really 1:18:15.439 --> 1:18:18.680 very successful few years there. Look, I did it then 1:18:18.880 --> 1:18:22.200 with that joint venture sort of slieve. After the third year, 1:18:22.320 --> 1:18:25.160 they didn't want to play anymore. By the way, the 1:18:25.240 --> 1:18:27.599 office rent that they were playing was to building I 1:18:27.600 --> 1:18:31.360 owned in London, so it was it was quite a 1:18:31.439 --> 1:18:34.040 good moment for me. But by then I've become you know, 1:18:34.120 --> 1:18:37.439 quite the management side. Didn't like the management as opposed 1:18:37.479 --> 1:18:40.760 to working for the label. You know. Look, we talked 1:18:40.760 --> 1:18:44.040 about Jerry Greenberg before and what a great guy he was, 1:18:44.280 --> 1:18:48.320 and I under him. I think I could have been 1:18:48.360 --> 1:18:51.360 there forever. I really do. We had a great rapport, 1:18:51.960 --> 1:18:55.840 but he did and he wanted me to move to London. Sorry, 1:18:55.880 --> 1:18:58.000 a big one. Leavelandon moved to New York to be 1:18:58.479 --> 1:19:04.000 executive vice president and a insistant to the president. So um, 1:19:04.040 --> 1:19:06.559 I didn't go, you know, and in retrospect, I think 1:19:06.600 --> 1:19:08.559 he was sort of knew what he wanted to go 1:19:08.600 --> 1:19:11.559 and his sort of grooming me to be the next president, 1:19:11.720 --> 1:19:15.760 which logically I would have been at that point. So 1:19:15.840 --> 1:19:18.160 I just wonder, you know, where Doug would have gone 1:19:18.200 --> 1:19:20.640 had I have made that move. I mean, he's been 1:19:20.680 --> 1:19:25.120 an enormously successful force in our business. But I did 1:19:25.160 --> 1:19:29.080 give him his first hit single, and perhaps by not 1:19:29.120 --> 1:19:32.040 going to America, I did him a big favor. Who 1:19:32.080 --> 1:19:35.280 knows where life could have gone, you know. Okay, so 1:19:35.360 --> 1:19:38.720 today you're involved with foreigner I am and anything else? 1:19:38.720 --> 1:19:40.920 Are you just a foreigner? I've been trying to retire 1:19:41.000 --> 1:19:43.400 seventy five, you know, I'm trying to give it up, 1:19:43.400 --> 1:19:47.320 but Foreigners was a great love of mine, even back 1:19:47.479 --> 1:19:50.360 when Jerry Greenberg and John Klodna signed them, back in 1:19:50.400 --> 1:19:54.519 the early days. I knew Mick as a musician by 1:19:54.520 --> 1:19:57.000 the way, back in that era I told you about, 1:19:57.439 --> 1:20:00.400 so I knew who he was, and he she is 1:20:00.439 --> 1:20:03.679 a great guitar player who came from the same area 1:20:03.760 --> 1:20:09.280 as Jimmy Page and Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck. Uh. 1:20:09.479 --> 1:20:13.920 He's just a brilliant player. And that he didn't form 1:20:14.160 --> 1:20:19.479 one of those English bands because a French singer came 1:20:19.520 --> 1:20:22.720 over to record, who used to have Jimmy Page, you know, 1:20:23.640 --> 1:20:26.439 is his guitar player. He was trying to find a 1:20:26.560 --> 1:20:31.160 guitarist to go back with him to Paris, and eventually 1:20:31.439 --> 1:20:34.200 Mick Jones went to Paris Is with Johnny. For years, 1:20:34.479 --> 1:20:37.760 most Americans have not heard of Johnny Halliday just recently died. 1:20:37.840 --> 1:20:41.439 Yes he did. But he was to France what Elvis 1:20:41.560 --> 1:20:46.439 was to America. I mean, if Elvis had lived, he 1:20:46.479 --> 1:20:49.760 would be no bigger in America than Johnny Halliday was 1:20:49.800 --> 1:20:53.839 in France when he died recently. I mean the government 1:20:53.880 --> 1:20:56.920 closed down the Chasin Lise to do a procession for 1:20:57.000 --> 1:21:00.720 Johnny Halliday. I mean, he was enormous. Mick wrote a 1:21:00.800 --> 1:21:04.680 number of his hits and that was that was just 1:21:05.640 --> 1:21:08.519 quite a big deal for Mick Jones. Believe me. You know, 1:21:08.640 --> 1:21:12.479 I started, he started Foreigner. He started Foreigner with the 1:21:13.080 --> 1:21:17.960 mixed started Foreigner. He came back to England, It's started 1:21:17.960 --> 1:21:21.160 working with Gary Wright in Wonder Wheel and a couple 1:21:21.200 --> 1:21:23.400 of other projects. They moved to New York and he 1:21:23.479 --> 1:21:26.800 had this bundle of songs and he took them to 1:21:26.840 --> 1:21:29.920 Bud Praeger, who was managing Mountain, which was one of 1:21:29.960 --> 1:21:32.880 the bands that Mick was in. He said, oh, I've 1:21:32.880 --> 1:21:35.280 got these songs and Bud Praeger said, well, they're pretty 1:21:35.320 --> 1:21:38.519 damn good. You know, let's den with them. And I 1:21:38.600 --> 1:21:41.439 must say that not maybe people know this, but Bud 1:21:41.439 --> 1:21:46.120 Praeger he invested everything he had in Foreigner, everything including 1:21:46.120 --> 1:21:49.160 his pension plan, you know. And first of all they 1:21:49.200 --> 1:21:53.360 were turned down by everybody, everybody including Atlantic. But then 1:21:53.880 --> 1:21:58.879 you know, he persevered with Atlantic and eventually had Jim Delahatton, 1:21:58.960 --> 1:22:03.200 Jerry Greenberg, Jim down up was come down. I don't 1:22:03.240 --> 1:22:05.360 think Jim Della hadn't liked them at all, but Jerry 1:22:05.680 --> 1:22:08.360 saw something in them, and the rest is history. The 1:22:08.720 --> 1:22:12.680 funny thing is I vividly remember hearing that song on 1:22:12.720 --> 1:22:15.000 the radio the first time, and I literally know people 1:22:15.040 --> 1:22:17.920 talk about this, but I literally drove to the records. Yes, 1:22:18.240 --> 1:22:19.800 I just had to be able to play it at 1:22:19.840 --> 1:22:23.400 it for that. I read what you in you said, 1:22:23.439 --> 1:22:25.600 you know that was but you're right, a lot of 1:22:25.600 --> 1:22:28.439 people did that. But there's a funny thing about Foreigner 1:22:28.560 --> 1:22:33.559 that you know, it's worked two hour advantage in later years. 1:22:33.600 --> 1:22:36.280 But they were a bit of a faceless band. You know, 1:22:36.720 --> 1:22:40.439 most people out there couldn't name anyone in Foreigner to 1:22:40.560 --> 1:22:44.879 this day. So what had happened in two thousand and four? 1:22:45.560 --> 1:22:47.439 I called mack up out of the blue, you know, 1:22:48.720 --> 1:22:51.360 I said, what what you're doing? I'm seeing anything that 1:22:51.400 --> 1:22:54.519 you're doing that. He said, well, you know, I've kind 1:22:54.560 --> 1:22:58.120 of given up, you know, Mick. Sorry. Lou had this 1:22:58.160 --> 1:23:04.719 illness which prevented him from delivering Blue gram and and 1:23:04.720 --> 1:23:07.040 and Mick had his own issues back in those days 1:23:07.080 --> 1:23:12.799 with alcohol and so forth, and he'd might then become sober, 1:23:12.840 --> 1:23:16.880 but he was still very nervous about doing anything. But 1:23:17.000 --> 1:23:19.960 this was all in one phone call. You know. You know, man, 1:23:20.000 --> 1:23:22.840 those songs that they're just too good to be sitting there. 1:23:23.280 --> 1:23:25.920 He says, I think, you know, let's get a band together. 1:23:26.680 --> 1:23:29.760 So on the phone, I can hear him perking his ears. 1:23:30.360 --> 1:23:32.720 We had a good relationship. He knows he knew what 1:23:32.760 --> 1:23:35.240 I was capable of. I said, he said, what do 1:23:35.240 --> 1:23:36.920 you think then? Who will be in it? Well? I 1:23:36.960 --> 1:23:40.360 was managing Jason Bonham, who have finished since since he 1:23:40.400 --> 1:23:43.559 was a child. And I said, we'll start We'll have 1:23:43.640 --> 1:23:47.040 Jason on drums. Well, the funny thing is Jason's was 1:23:47.080 --> 1:23:49.600 on Jerry Greenberg's label. Yeah, I signed him to it. 1:23:49.640 --> 1:23:53.479 I never knew that connection. So okay, so okay, we'll 1:23:53.520 --> 1:23:56.680 start with Jason Bonham. Yes, so I said, And I 1:23:56.800 --> 1:23:58.479 tell you who else I would like to get in. 1:23:58.800 --> 1:24:01.479 There's a guy I put into yes years a few 1:24:01.560 --> 1:24:03.960 years ago. He wrote, owner of a lonely art. His 1:24:04.040 --> 1:24:08.400 name is Trevor Rabin. He's a formidable musician, but he's 1:24:08.439 --> 1:24:11.760 really doing started doing soundtracks now. But I think I 1:24:11.800 --> 1:24:15.360 could get him, so I'll call up Trevor. He's very interested. 1:24:15.680 --> 1:24:19.960 So we had this mix now feeling feeling it though. 1:24:20.960 --> 1:24:25.280 We had a meeting at Trevor Raban studio. Jason, Trevor, 1:24:25.400 --> 1:24:28.160 me and and we're ready to go. We're going to 1:24:28.280 --> 1:24:31.599 find a singer. Jason said, well, what about my singer 1:24:31.680 --> 1:24:34.880 Charles West. There was a singer of the Jason bonhom band, 1:24:35.400 --> 1:24:38.320 so we said, well we try him. Why not? So 1:24:38.360 --> 1:24:40.400 we start thinking about who else is going to be 1:24:40.439 --> 1:24:43.400 in the band, and you know, they go. Mick goes 1:24:43.439 --> 1:24:45.800 back to New York and you know I was living 1:24:45.840 --> 1:24:50.000 here in those days. So Trevor calls me about four 1:24:50.080 --> 1:24:52.519 days later, said I can't do this. So what do 1:24:52.560 --> 1:24:56.879 you mean you're pivotable to what we're doing. Jerry Bruckheim 1:24:56.960 --> 1:25:00.640 is just offered meet like a seven figure number to 1:25:00.760 --> 1:25:03.720 do it a soundtrack. I think it might be that 1:25:03.760 --> 1:25:07.439 one about asteroids or something, so I have to do it. 1:25:07.600 --> 1:25:10.160 By the way, he's a consummate musician, you know you 1:25:10.240 --> 1:25:14.000 can you can conduct a ninety piece orchestra with no trouble. 1:25:14.280 --> 1:25:18.880 And incredible engineer too. He's just that guy. But we 1:25:18.880 --> 1:25:21.479 weren't going to get him. So that was the end 1:25:21.520 --> 1:25:24.479 of that. But by now Micky is interested. So you know, 1:25:24.560 --> 1:25:26.880 I managed to get a gig with a radio station 1:25:26.960 --> 1:25:30.360 up in Santa Barbara that they're doing a charity event. 1:25:30.720 --> 1:25:32.800 So let's just take a gig for the hell of it. 1:25:33.320 --> 1:25:36.840 So we get the old Foreigner sound guy, a guy 1:25:36.840 --> 1:25:40.280 that would played keyboards for years with Foreigner, Tom Gimble, 1:25:40.320 --> 1:25:43.719 who's the multi instrumentalist that we we have to this day. 1:25:44.360 --> 1:25:49.800 And Jason and Oh, Jason called up Jeff Pilson. He 1:25:49.840 --> 1:25:52.519 had been in that movie rock Star with Jeff Pilson, 1:25:52.680 --> 1:25:55.720 so we've got Jeff Perlson on base. You know, it 1:25:55.840 --> 1:25:59.680 was a formidable band actually even without Trevor Rabin, so 1:25:59.760 --> 1:26:02.639 that he goes down great at this charity event, which 1:26:02.680 --> 1:26:07.160 is in two thousand and four, and he said, well, 1:26:07.200 --> 1:26:09.040 you know, let's let's have a go. Then let's try 1:26:09.080 --> 1:26:12.840 and do this, so we did. Unfortunately, Charles West didn't 1:26:12.880 --> 1:26:16.240 make it because he was so enthusiastic during rehearsals he 1:26:16.240 --> 1:26:18.680 had completely blown his voice out by the time we 1:26:18.720 --> 1:26:20.720 did the show. So we knew we had to get 1:26:20.760 --> 1:26:25.800 somebody else, so we looked around. We audition everybody. I mean, 1:26:26.320 --> 1:26:29.400 Jimmy Barnes from Australia, who is by the way, I 1:26:29.439 --> 1:26:31.200 tried to get a band together with him in Jimmy 1:26:31.240 --> 1:26:35.240 Page years ago, but Jimmy Barnes blew that one. But 1:26:35.400 --> 1:26:38.800 I still think he's one of the greatest rock singers ever. 1:26:39.320 --> 1:26:42.479 Remember Cold Chisel. Of course I saw them opening. No, 1:26:42.640 --> 1:26:45.000 I saw Angel opening. I don't know if I saw 1:26:45.000 --> 1:26:48.440 a Cold Chisel whatever. There were some great bands in Australia. 1:26:48.560 --> 1:26:51.080 Well they worked. The thing about the Australian bands, whether 1:26:51.120 --> 1:26:54.360 they said live, they had a totally down I remember 1:26:54.439 --> 1:26:59.439 seeing in Excess at the Whiskey was just astounding. Yeah, okay, 1:26:59.479 --> 1:27:02.960 so it doesn't come together. You're looking for a lead singer, 1:27:03.200 --> 1:27:06.880 yep uh. And we were going to go out with 1:27:07.000 --> 1:27:10.200 Charles West again because we couldn't find any we honestly, 1:27:10.360 --> 1:27:15.120 we auditioned so many people by tape, some pretty name artists. 1:27:16.120 --> 1:27:21.240 Jodan Turner was one. You know, nobody was really getting it. 1:27:21.320 --> 1:27:24.040 So at least Charles West was a credible front girl. 1:27:24.920 --> 1:27:28.000 So we said, okay, it authorized me to get a 1:27:28.000 --> 1:27:31.280 few shows. I was begging to get twenty tho dollar shows. 1:27:31.680 --> 1:27:34.400 And it was that difficult because the last tour was 1:27:34.720 --> 1:27:37.960 terrible with Loue not being able to cut it properly. 1:27:38.520 --> 1:27:42.759 So but I get a string of dates together and 1:27:42.800 --> 1:27:45.880 we're getting ready to rehearse, and then Tom Gimbal brings 1:27:45.880 --> 1:27:49.400 in this tape of this kid Kelly Hansen and we 1:27:49.880 --> 1:27:52.440 one listened to the tape. He had had a karaoke 1:27:52.840 --> 1:27:56.200 mix and he's singing that foreigners. So with about five 1:27:56.320 --> 1:27:59.479 days to go before the first show, we gave Charles 1:27:59.520 --> 1:28:03.000 West the news and Kelly Hansen took over and changed everything. 1:28:03.360 --> 1:28:06.400 He's a fabulous front man. Have you seen the band? 1:28:06.600 --> 1:28:08.320 I haven't seen it with Kelly, but you know what 1:28:08.400 --> 1:28:11.639 about the videos. You're making some kind of documentary with 1:28:11.760 --> 1:28:15.200 Lou and they were shot like a Nassau Coli CM 1:28:15.280 --> 1:28:19.200 or somewhere Jones Beach their online probably three years ago. 1:28:20.400 --> 1:28:24.679 Uh no, not with The last thing we've we've done 1:28:24.720 --> 1:28:27.240 with Lou was and the rest of the old band 1:28:27.760 --> 1:28:30.640 was a series of shows called double Vision where we 1:28:30.760 --> 1:28:34.960 have the current band plays a whole set and then 1:28:35.520 --> 1:28:39.200 uh there's a short interval and then the original band 1:28:39.240 --> 1:28:43.840 comes out. We met Lou, Dennis Elliott, Rick Wells, Al 1:28:43.920 --> 1:28:48.080 Greenwood and Ian McDonald and they play about five five 1:28:48.120 --> 1:28:50.680 songs and then we all get together at the end 1:28:50.720 --> 1:28:53.120 and do I want to know what that wasn't hot blooded? 1:28:53.240 --> 1:28:55.240 The roof comes off the place to be Franks, Okay, 1:28:55.240 --> 1:28:57.920 I got a question. Suddenly, I can't remember the name 1:28:58.000 --> 1:29:02.080 of the movie. I love this movie and it begins 1:29:02.080 --> 1:29:03.680 with an s or something in any event, it's an 1:29:03.680 --> 1:29:07.320 English movie about getting a band back together, and the 1:29:07.479 --> 1:29:11.760 final song is the flame Still burn. Mick wrote that 1:29:13.320 --> 1:29:16.599 what the hell is it? The group is called Strange 1:29:16.640 --> 1:29:21.040 fruit Um the name of the movie. I keep forgetting 1:29:21.080 --> 1:29:23.840 the next. It's a damn good movie. So I love that. 1:29:23.880 --> 1:29:26.000 But one of the great rockmis how did that song 1:29:26.040 --> 1:29:29.080 get in the movie? The director new Mick and called 1:29:29.120 --> 1:29:31.120 him out and said he look, I need the songs 1:29:31.160 --> 1:29:34.799 I aren't making. I need, you know, a couple of songs, 1:29:35.360 --> 1:29:39.240 and he wrote seven songs in a week, one of 1:29:39.240 --> 1:29:42.679 which they were use in the movie Flame Still, which 1:29:42.800 --> 1:29:45.320 was I think is even better than I Want to 1:29:45.320 --> 1:29:48.120 Know What Love? Well, we've recorded it again. I've listened 1:29:48.120 --> 1:29:51.240 to that version. Okay. So with this late day, you're 1:29:51.280 --> 1:29:54.400 involved with Foreigner and you're trying to get out of 1:29:54.400 --> 1:29:58.200 the business. Yeah, and I've still got Twisted Sister, of course, 1:29:58.200 --> 1:30:01.799 and Dee Snyder, so twist Twisted Sister. People don't realize 1:30:02.040 --> 1:30:05.120 to this day a massive in you, I thought, because 1:30:05.160 --> 1:30:08.000 I hear from J. J. French all the time, I'm 1:30:08.120 --> 1:30:11.840 very sure you do. And he said that they did 1:30:11.880 --> 1:30:15.360 a final tour and he sold his guitars, but then 1:30:15.400 --> 1:30:17.519 he talked about possibly doing it or is this just 1:30:17.720 --> 1:30:21.120 D calling a Twisted Sister. No, they went out as 1:30:21.160 --> 1:30:25.240 Twisted Sister from We put the band back together when 1:30:25.280 --> 1:30:27.599 I was at a movie company for a while at 1:30:27.600 --> 1:30:30.439 the shooting gallery and they we did a horror movie 1:30:30.800 --> 1:30:33.759 with D. That's how I got into the movie business. 1:30:33.960 --> 1:30:36.600 He called me up and said, look, we need to 1:30:37.040 --> 1:30:38.599 You've got to come and work at this record only 1:30:38.680 --> 1:30:40.720 I need you to help me get the soundtrack to go. 1:30:41.120 --> 1:30:44.080 And we did the most amazing sound tract to Strange Land. 1:30:44.120 --> 1:30:47.719 It was a Billboard hit was Kid Rocks. First record 1:30:47.760 --> 1:30:52.120 was on the Snyder's soundtrack and eminem was on it. Uh, 1:30:52.600 --> 1:30:55.000 we had everybody on this damn record as a big 1:30:55.080 --> 1:30:58.280 hit soundtrack. Not such a big hit movie, but for 1:30:58.320 --> 1:31:01.200 a cult movie that costs the little it did okay, 1:31:01.320 --> 1:31:05.000 you know, And after the movie came up, we decided 1:31:05.040 --> 1:31:08.000 we're try and cut a Twisted Sister song to go 1:31:08.040 --> 1:31:11.840 on the soundtrack, which we did and that was pretty good, 1:31:12.160 --> 1:31:14.600 so we decided to give it a go again. This 1:31:14.760 --> 1:31:18.320 must have been two thousands something like that, and the 1:31:18.360 --> 1:31:21.080 first thing we did was we got an offer from 1:31:22.400 --> 1:31:25.639 what's what's that organization that brings entertainment to the troops 1:31:26.680 --> 1:31:31.000 us USO to go to Korea. So we did. We 1:31:31.040 --> 1:31:33.120 went to Career, did a thing for the troops, and 1:31:33.160 --> 1:31:35.479 by then everybody wants to give it a go again, 1:31:35.560 --> 1:31:38.120 and we took it up to a pretty good level. 1:31:38.160 --> 1:31:43.879 We were headlining with Aussie and Metallica in a series 1:31:43.920 --> 1:31:49.040 of events in Europe and the last time Foreigner did 1:31:49.080 --> 1:31:51.560 bang your Head, which is no, not bang your head. 1:31:52.120 --> 1:31:55.479 What's the big one in it's two really big ones 1:31:55.600 --> 1:32:00.679 to our foreigner about Twisted Sister, big German rock Fest rep. 1:32:01.960 --> 1:32:05.160 That's that's a I know where you're thinking, but that 1:32:05.280 --> 1:32:09.160 is the sort of red light area in Hamburg. I know. 1:32:10.160 --> 1:32:14.000 Now I'm getting to know your green That's a racing track, 1:32:14.120 --> 1:32:16.240 that is that's a big one. Rock am Ring is 1:32:16.479 --> 1:32:22.439 a big one. God whackens a massive hundred thousand people sharp. 1:32:23.000 --> 1:32:25.479 So about three years ago, which was the last time 1:32:25.520 --> 1:32:30.519 Twister Saister did play Wagon, they headlined and Far and 1:32:30.600 --> 1:32:34.799 all one of the support bands, and wondered what universit 1:32:34.800 --> 1:32:38.960 he was in when he was there. Actually we were 1:32:38.960 --> 1:32:43.400 making a little documentary and so I'm asking Mick questions, 1:32:44.160 --> 1:32:47.840 and I remember, if I started, He's sitting there knowing 1:32:47.960 --> 1:32:50.280 he had just done a set, knowing that Twist his 1:32:50.360 --> 1:32:53.880 sister are headlining. Okay, so that's my first question to 1:32:54.000 --> 1:33:00.679 Mick Jones was how did Twist his sister change your life? No, 1:33:01.120 --> 1:33:04.439 we can't continue stories for hours. Phil, You've been fantastic. Literally, 1:33:04.479 --> 1:33:06.160 I just had to cut you off because we can't 1:33:06.160 --> 1:33:08.559 go on for four hours. But your stories and your 1:33:08.640 --> 1:33:11.679 career obviously is unbelievable. You were there when it all happened. 1:33:12.000 --> 1:33:13.600 You were not only a fly on the wall, you 1:33:13.640 --> 1:33:16.960 were a participant there. Anything specifically we didn't cover that 1:33:17.000 --> 1:33:20.080 you need to cover just a little period I had 1:33:20.080 --> 1:33:21.960 in the movie business, but I had a lot of 1:33:22.000 --> 1:33:26.160 fun with I made a documentary about Sun Records. I 1:33:26.200 --> 1:33:29.439 saw that was one on PBS. That was great. American Masters, 1:33:29.479 --> 1:33:32.280 thank you, and we did. The soundtrack was pretty down 1:33:32.280 --> 1:33:36.000 good too. I got everybody Paul once I had Paul McCartney. 1:33:36.479 --> 1:33:39.479 I then called Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney and Bob Dylan, 1:33:39.520 --> 1:33:42.080 and I called Tom Petty So and Jimmy Page and 1:33:42.160 --> 1:33:45.000 Robert Plant played on it. It was a marvelous soundtrack, 1:33:45.439 --> 1:33:48.120 so PBS wanted to do another one, so I did. 1:33:48.200 --> 1:33:51.400 The house that I met built the story of Atlantic, 1:33:51.800 --> 1:33:54.920 which was pretty good movie too, So I was quite 1:33:54.960 --> 1:33:58.719 proud of that departure from music into the movie business. 1:33:58.760 --> 1:34:01.839 I learned a lot. This little company, the Shooting Gallery 1:34:02.200 --> 1:34:05.120 had already had a big hit when I joined. They 1:34:05.120 --> 1:34:08.760 made they made sleem Blade and they specialized in low 1:34:08.800 --> 1:34:13.160 budget art films. And I think I put the average 1:34:13.160 --> 1:34:16.000 age up by about ten years when I joined these people. 1:34:16.400 --> 1:34:19.280 But we had a bit of a run, but they 1:34:19.360 --> 1:34:21.680 got carried away with it, and that's you know the 1:34:21.720 --> 1:34:25.360 problem with movie business without a catalog. Karlcoe was the 1:34:25.360 --> 1:34:28.719 most successful independent movie company of all time. They went bank. 1:34:29.320 --> 1:34:31.960 It's like now there's st X today. They finally had 1:34:31.960 --> 1:34:34.839 it hit. The thing I hate about the movie business 1:34:34.880 --> 1:34:39.200 is everybody has a fucking opinion, okay, whereas the music. Well, 1:34:39.240 --> 1:34:42.200 now that executives think they're bigger, but reality it comes 1:34:42.240 --> 1:34:45.719 down to the music, and you know, and it's something 1:34:45.760 --> 1:34:48.639 you feel or don't. Actually, it's an interesting thing there 1:34:48.680 --> 1:34:52.920 that I always felt that nobody could catch up with 1:34:53.000 --> 1:34:56.640 people like Jerry Greenberg and me because we had the 1:34:56.680 --> 1:35:00.719 greatest possible training that you could ever have from Jerry Wexler, 1:35:01.000 --> 1:35:04.040 Ahmed ed agin Un that's where Edigan and I remember, 1:35:04.640 --> 1:35:08.200 and Tom Dowd engineer I remember. I think it was 1:35:08.200 --> 1:35:11.040 either Tom Dowd or Jerry said to me one day 1:35:11.160 --> 1:35:14.040 when I got the job and I'm in London, he said, look, 1:35:14.200 --> 1:35:17.160 if you're going to sign a band, make sure there's 1:35:17.320 --> 1:35:22.160 at least one virtuoso in the band you're signing, because 1:35:22.320 --> 1:35:26.479 virtuoso musicians don't play with good musicians. They only play 1:35:26.520 --> 1:35:29.800 with great musicians. And if you think about it, there's 1:35:29.840 --> 1:35:33.719 four virtuosos and led Zeppelin right, there's two or three 1:35:33.760 --> 1:35:37.040 in Yes, you know this is why, as you so 1:35:37.240 --> 1:35:40.920 rightly put it, it's the music that counts. And that 1:35:41.240 --> 1:35:45.519 training from those three guys always kept that in my 1:35:45.600 --> 1:35:49.800 head about I have to remember something Doug Morris said 1:35:49.840 --> 1:35:54.680 to me on that fateful day. He said, what about this? 1:35:54.760 --> 1:35:57.519 Because I used to do little talks to our people 1:35:57.560 --> 1:36:00.800 from time to time, and I'd always quote this virtuoso 1:36:00.960 --> 1:36:05.679 musicians scenario. What about that that thing you pontificate about 1:36:05.680 --> 1:36:08.200 when you're talking to people about how you've got to 1:36:08.240 --> 1:36:12.200 have a virtuoso musician. Who the fuck is the virtuoso 1:36:12.360 --> 1:36:15.880 musician and twisted sister. I said, d Snyder. He said, 1:36:15.920 --> 1:36:18.680 what do you mean? I said, he has virtuoso charisma. 1:36:18.920 --> 1:36:23.479 Absolutely absolutely, you know this. But you know that you 1:36:23.479 --> 1:36:25.880 you bring up a lot of things. One do you 1:36:25.920 --> 1:36:28.160 have to see the band live in order to be 1:36:28.200 --> 1:36:30.599 convinced or conn b and make it not be greet 1:36:30.640 --> 1:36:34.720 live a band. Bands have made it a great live 1:36:34.800 --> 1:36:36.760 of course, but you know, for me, I had to 1:36:36.800 --> 1:36:39.519 see a band live. And that's another thing that arm 1:36:39.600 --> 1:36:41.960 It taught me, you know, is that you have to 1:36:42.000 --> 1:36:46.120 go and see your bands play, even after you signed them, 1:36:46.160 --> 1:36:50.480 because that's when you see your band meet their audience 1:36:51.040 --> 1:36:53.679 and that will teach you how to promote and market 1:36:53.720 --> 1:36:57.479 that band. Arm It was, and we could we should 1:36:57.520 --> 1:36:59.880 do another program about armor It, because you know he 1:37:00.120 --> 1:37:04.320 was my mentor and my friend for many years. I 1:37:04.360 --> 1:37:08.200 did produce Cold co produced rather the final led Zeppelin 1:37:08.240 --> 1:37:12.320 concert with which we did from Arment and I just 1:37:12.400 --> 1:37:14.880 know all my dealings with arm but we're not Legion. 1:37:14.920 --> 1:37:18.040 But I remember I wrote about the song Black Velvet 1:37:18.520 --> 1:37:20.639 and I was saying, how you know it wasn't going 1:37:20.640 --> 1:37:24.080 to Ley Goes. That track is a number one record, 1:37:24.360 --> 1:37:27.479 which like you know, like six weeks later starting to 1:37:27.479 --> 1:37:30.640 get traction. Yeah, and it went. Man, they knew this. 1:37:30.800 --> 1:37:34.000 I mean I remember, way after I left Atlantic, and 1:37:34.280 --> 1:37:37.720 you know, way after my Strange Land soundtrack had come 1:37:37.760 --> 1:37:39.680 out with kid Rock on it. He said, I want 1:37:39.680 --> 1:37:42.160 to go and see this guy kid Rock at the 1:37:42.360 --> 1:37:45.559 Planet of Roxy and we we we went along and 1:37:45.600 --> 1:37:48.479 we were sitting there. Kid Rock comes out and nothing 1:37:48.520 --> 1:37:51.680 had happened yet for kid Rock. Actually, he turns to me, 1:37:51.680 --> 1:37:55.719 he said, this guy is big as Elvis, and nothing 1:37:55.760 --> 1:37:58.519 had happened, right, And he was pretty well right. He 1:37:59.479 --> 1:38:02.759 erupted unbelievably in Kid Rocks. One of the few people. 1:38:03.520 --> 1:38:05.880 He's made a lot of money, owns his own plane, 1:38:06.040 --> 1:38:07.800 and he still can work. I mean, I hear from 1:38:07.880 --> 1:38:11.120 him all the times. He's an interesting character because his 1:38:11.320 --> 1:38:13.360 image is low class, but he grew up in an 1:38:13.400 --> 1:38:20.679 upper middle class exactly. But the other thing I think 1:38:20.720 --> 1:38:23.200 that you were with this is what people don't understand 1:38:23.240 --> 1:38:27.719 about the music business today. It's mature. You were there, okay, 1:38:27.720 --> 1:38:31.200 before the Beatles, which showed how much money and what 1:38:31.320 --> 1:38:35.000 reach you could have, when there was still independent distribution, 1:38:35.240 --> 1:38:39.360 when these people still own the label. Now nobody in 1:38:39.400 --> 1:38:41.479 the music business has their own money in the game. 1:38:41.840 --> 1:38:44.280 When you have your own money in the game. I 1:38:44.320 --> 1:38:47.120 have a I have a promoter friend who promotes UH 1:38:47.400 --> 1:38:50.439 clubs in Boston. He says, you've never really been a 1:38:50.439 --> 1:38:52.640 promoter until you've gone to the A T. M. At 1:38:52.640 --> 1:38:55.040 two in the morning to withdraw money to pay the band. 1:38:55.920 --> 1:38:59.479 It's just really so I you know, been there. I 1:38:59.479 --> 1:39:01.040 mean one of the things on luxury I have. As 1:39:01.120 --> 1:39:03.679 you know, I was conscious when the Beatles hit. It's 1:39:03.720 --> 1:39:07.280 like I'm watching some of the Woodstock documentaries and they're 1:39:07.320 --> 1:39:10.960 talking about Vietnam War. People have no idea what it 1:39:11.000 --> 1:39:13.160 was like to get your draft. Be freaked out. You're 1:39:13.160 --> 1:39:15.400 gonna have to go to this we get your ash. 1:39:15.760 --> 1:39:19.280 It was really crazy. Yeah, I imagine they ovously. That 1:39:19.400 --> 1:39:22.280 was when Zepplin were breaking at the time of it 1:39:23.040 --> 1:39:25.519 was raging. You know, that was an awful moment in 1:39:25.560 --> 1:39:29.120 American history. You know for sure. I saw a Zeppelin 1:39:29.200 --> 1:39:30.840 a couple of times. First time I saw him with 1:39:30.840 --> 1:39:34.840 in Haven Uh Collins Yale Bowl, and they were not good. 1:39:34.920 --> 1:39:37.479 This is just after the third album came out, and 1:39:37.520 --> 1:39:40.200 you may or may not remember, in seventy five they 1:39:40.280 --> 1:39:46.160 canceled the tour because of so they were gonna play 1:39:46.160 --> 1:39:48.240 the Rolls Bowl and they didn't, But they came back 1:39:48.280 --> 1:39:50.559 in seventies seven and played the Forum for a week. 1:39:51.280 --> 1:39:54.360 They were unbelievable. They played all of the mean, my 1:39:54.400 --> 1:39:56.920 favorite led Zeppelin song, it was ten years gone, they 1:39:56.960 --> 1:40:00.160 played that, I mean really amazing. Yeah, that was I 1:40:00.240 --> 1:40:03.719 was there for that. Yeah, it was quite I also believe, 1:40:04.200 --> 1:40:06.200 you know, Robert says he doesn't want to do it. 1:40:07.000 --> 1:40:09.080 I guess I have a little bit of a bad 1:40:09.120 --> 1:40:13.400 reaction when these bands get back together solely for the money. 1:40:13.439 --> 1:40:15.519 It's just, you know, all they I want to have 1:40:15.600 --> 1:40:18.920 my kids know we were there, we saw your kids. 1:40:18.960 --> 1:40:25.280 Don't get to seal. I mean, I rub it. He 1:40:25.320 --> 1:40:29.719 has carved himself an entirely new path. Absolutely, and when 1:40:29.760 --> 1:40:35.160 we did the event the O two, I mean he 1:40:35.240 --> 1:40:37.920 had got himself up there. I mean, have you seen 1:40:37.920 --> 1:40:40.320 any of the film of it? I mean, of course 1:40:40.439 --> 1:40:45.160 was there foreigner supported that show. He was just astonishing. 1:40:45.200 --> 1:40:49.120 I mean that that they were absolutely on it. Jason 1:40:49.160 --> 1:40:54.200 Bonham set them on fire because he knew every nuance 1:40:54.320 --> 1:40:57.200 that his father played and some he put in himself. 1:40:57.479 --> 1:41:01.200 He knew every variation of every the song that led 1:41:01.280 --> 1:41:04.920 Zeppelin had ever played, and he was the driving force 1:41:05.800 --> 1:41:10.560 that night. Jimmy was playing great, Robert was phenomenal, and 1:41:10.600 --> 1:41:13.679 John Paul Jans was Joon Paul Jans, who is a genius, 1:41:14.200 --> 1:41:18.800 and that that night was just magic, absolute magic. So 1:41:19.080 --> 1:41:21.240 just taking it leads up one for a minute, what's 1:41:21.280 --> 1:41:24.840 your favorite leads up one album? I liked the second album. 1:41:24.920 --> 1:41:27.600 That's really I Love Since I've been Loving You is 1:41:27.600 --> 1:41:30.120 one of the greatest songs of all time for me 1:41:30.479 --> 1:41:32.519 for a long time. It was the first album for 1:41:32.640 --> 1:41:34.479 me in certainly days and confused. But you have to 1:41:34.520 --> 1:41:37.200 understand when the second album came out in America, the 1:41:37.439 --> 1:41:40.280 single had come out like a week or two before 1:41:40.720 --> 1:41:43.519 instant hit a whole lot of long I bought that 1:41:43.560 --> 1:41:44.920 album the day it came out and went to the 1:41:45.040 --> 1:41:47.280 j a core of that. I played it that and 1:41:47.320 --> 1:41:52.040 only that for a week straight, and then suddenly everybody 1:41:52.040 --> 1:41:54.439 bought it and it was all you heard. I could 1:41:54.439 --> 1:41:57.360 not listen to that album for years, and then when 1:41:57.400 --> 1:41:59.400 you got back to it, you know, it's it's a 1:41:59.400 --> 1:42:03.080 great record. But for a minute there was overplayed, but 1:42:03.240 --> 1:42:06.360 certainly of the first album in physical graffiti for me, Yeah, 1:42:06.760 --> 1:42:11.920 both but how come Jimmy could never like Robert could 1:42:11.920 --> 1:42:17.360 never find his own thing. I managed Jimmy for a period, 1:42:17.400 --> 1:42:21.240 and of course we had the firm manner was managing U. 1:42:21.840 --> 1:42:24.360 The promblem with the firm was that neither Jimmy nor 1:42:24.439 --> 1:42:27.400 Paul Rodgers wanted to do the songs for which they 1:42:27.400 --> 1:42:33.720 were famous. Even so we bed two pretty big too radioactive. Yeah, yeah, 1:42:34.320 --> 1:42:37.080 some good songs on it. But if only they'd just 1:42:37.240 --> 1:42:40.960 done a couple of bad company songs and a couple 1:42:41.040 --> 1:42:44.760 of free or a free song and you know, a 1:42:44.880 --> 1:42:48.600 yard Birds song and have bled Zeppelin song that I 1:42:48.640 --> 1:42:52.479 could have been retired many years well, Robert play did. 1:42:52.520 --> 1:42:54.400 I was a big fan of the album with twenty 1:42:54.479 --> 1:42:56.720 nine palms, et cetera. But when I went to see 1:42:56.760 --> 1:42:58.880 him on that door, he would play some Zepplin stuff. 1:42:58.960 --> 1:43:01.640 Oh he does now. I mean, I managed Robert for 1:43:01.680 --> 1:43:06.519 a while and we're party company over that, because you know, 1:43:06.560 --> 1:43:10.640 I remember having a conversation with him outdoors in a 1:43:10.720 --> 1:43:16.200 restaurant with his band. At one table Robert and me 1:43:16.400 --> 1:43:19.519 and our respective girlfriends. At another table between us was 1:43:19.600 --> 1:43:24.640 Nil Rogers and his girlfriend. But with this conversation is 1:43:24.720 --> 1:43:27.639 becoming heated, so his band, who are listening to everything 1:43:27.720 --> 1:43:31.360 I'm saying. I'm saying, man, you just do a couple 1:43:31.400 --> 1:43:34.519 of Zeppelin songs for God's sake, and the band will 1:43:34.600 --> 1:43:37.679 never do We'll never do Let's I mean fucking band 1:43:38.000 --> 1:43:40.200 right right? They could be replaced at a minute a minute, 1:43:40.479 --> 1:43:43.680 We'll never do led Zeppelin's And of course Rom and 1:43:43.720 --> 1:43:46.800 I parted company over that at that time. And of 1:43:46.840 --> 1:43:49.080 course then he gets hold of Bill kurbish Ly who 1:43:49.400 --> 1:43:53.040 talks him into doing led Zeppelin songs and the rest 1:43:53.160 --> 1:43:56.200 is history, right, and are very good friends. By the way, 1:43:56.320 --> 1:43:59.040 In fact you mentioned twenty nine Palms. He wrote that 1:43:59.120 --> 1:44:00.439 so when he was coming to is it me in 1:44:00.479 --> 1:44:03.880 Palm Springs where I have a house, and you know 1:44:03.920 --> 1:44:07.320 he was with the Atlanta Miles and that line I 1:44:07.400 --> 1:44:10.240 hear your voice on the radio is about a Lanta Miles, 1:44:10.680 --> 1:44:13.080 just a little bit of Okay, how many times you've 1:44:13.080 --> 1:44:17.840 been married? Who's counting three? Three? And are you married 1:44:17.960 --> 1:44:20.680 right now? I certainly am yeah? How long? How long 1:44:20.760 --> 1:44:25.360 is this marriage? Lasted? Twenty years? And you have any children? 1:44:25.520 --> 1:44:28.920 I have to. I have my daughter Jody, who is 1:44:29.040 --> 1:44:32.799 in our business. She has invented a way of selling 1:44:32.840 --> 1:44:37.400 CDs at gigs were by using a charity thing, and 1:44:37.439 --> 1:44:40.679 there was a line in Billboard recently from the head 1:44:40.760 --> 1:44:45.280 marketing guide Atlantic says, Jody Carson is singlehandedly saving the 1:44:45.280 --> 1:44:48.800 physical juice market. I mean she's she's her clients of 1:44:48.840 --> 1:44:53.479 the whole skin of kid rock and she sells. She's 1:44:53.560 --> 1:44:56.280 literally she's raised something like three million dollars for the 1:44:56.280 --> 1:45:01.120 Shriners through this Eagles her work client, and you know, 1:45:01.200 --> 1:45:04.120 she's made a she created a business out of nothing. 1:45:04.600 --> 1:45:06.880 If you got four people working for her going to 1:45:07.000 --> 1:45:11.640 gigs all the time. She started it with she and I. 1:45:11.880 --> 1:45:15.559 She was assistant to a manager, merchandizing girl and you know, 1:45:15.640 --> 1:45:18.800 like everything at one time. And I could never figure 1:45:18.800 --> 1:45:21.040 out why we couldn't sell c ds at gigs, you know, 1:45:21.880 --> 1:45:23.599 So I said, look, I think you've got to take 1:45:23.760 --> 1:45:27.040 the CDs to the people. So she and I took 1:45:27.080 --> 1:45:29.240 a box of CDs each at the end of the show. 1:45:29.840 --> 1:45:34.080 And this may seem undignified for the manager of the 1:45:34.120 --> 1:45:38.360 band and a legendary artists or managers. I'd like to 1:45:38.400 --> 1:45:40.720 pump myself up to be but we're out there going 1:45:40.760 --> 1:45:44.519 to get your CDs up twenty dollars for a CD 1:45:44.680 --> 1:45:47.880 come on, come on. We sold a box each that night, 1:45:48.400 --> 1:45:51.200 so I said, look, it's a little undignified for us 1:45:51.240 --> 1:45:53.040 to be out there doing this, But we did it 1:45:53.080 --> 1:45:56.000 a couple more times, and we got this cash from 1:45:56.000 --> 1:45:59.080 selling these CDs at twenty bucks. Because you can't sell 1:45:59.120 --> 1:46:01.240 a c D a a rock show for less than 1:46:01.280 --> 1:46:05.200 twenty dollars because the record label wants, you know, nine dollars, 1:46:05.600 --> 1:46:08.680 the venue wants like five dollars, so you've got to 1:46:08.680 --> 1:46:11.240 sell it at that price. Except cause we in Foreigner 1:46:11.640 --> 1:46:14.240 came up with the idea of pressing our own. We 1:46:14.360 --> 1:46:19.120 covered every song, We took studio recordings of every hit 1:46:19.560 --> 1:46:24.240 and eventually specifically for licensing and selling it shows. But 1:46:24.720 --> 1:46:27.160 you don't have to the original radars can't say no, 1:46:27.400 --> 1:46:30.120 they don't have to get paid. That's there's that. But 1:46:30.240 --> 1:46:36.200 the interesting is we did eventually release the those records, 1:46:37.400 --> 1:46:41.200 and we've got a gold album for see. The thing 1:46:41.200 --> 1:46:44.040 about Foreigner is that we touched on this before that 1:46:44.080 --> 1:46:47.240 they were a faceless band. Nobody knew who they were. 1:46:47.720 --> 1:46:51.240 I discovered round about two thousand five, when we're really 1:46:51.280 --> 1:46:55.040 starting this that nobody knows who Foreigners are. Okay, you 1:46:55.080 --> 1:46:57.080 know that thing You're sitting on a plane. The guy 1:46:57.160 --> 1:46:59.760 next to you said, what do you do right? I said, well, 1:46:59.760 --> 1:47:02.400 I'm anse rock bands. And they say who, No, not 1:47:02.479 --> 1:47:07.720 the who? Foreigner? Who No, not the who? Foreigner? I've 1:47:07.720 --> 1:47:10.599 never heard of Foreigner. Yes, you've heard of Foreigner. You 1:47:10.640 --> 1:47:13.680 know every song? And I start singing. You know how 1:47:13.680 --> 1:47:16.200 good I am at that? I start singing the songs. 1:47:16.400 --> 1:47:19.439 They know every song. So people who say they have 1:47:19.560 --> 1:47:23.240 not heard of Foreigner, no, every song Foreigner has ever 1:47:23.320 --> 1:47:26.519 recorded and had a hit with. Do you know Do 1:47:26.600 --> 1:47:30.400 you know, Bob, that Foreigner has more top ten singles 1:47:30.520 --> 1:47:32.680 than Journey? Did you know that? Well? I was just 1:47:32.720 --> 1:47:34.479 going to bring up Journey, and I didn't know that 1:47:34.560 --> 1:47:37.400 because I went to see the Earth stats Journey. I've 1:47:37.400 --> 1:47:38.880 seen them a couple of times. I would see even 1:47:38.880 --> 1:47:42.519 at the Hollywood ball Ones three years ago, and you 1:47:42.560 --> 1:47:46.680 know Anniel whatever his name is, the Filipino guys, who 1:47:46.760 --> 1:47:50.640 is that? And the reaction was beyond belief. It was 1:47:50.720 --> 1:47:53.080 clear it wasn't Steve Prey. But what I realized at 1:47:53.120 --> 1:47:55.840 that point is the audience on the songs, it was 1:47:55.880 --> 1:47:58.599 about them now they'd grown up to it. They loved 1:47:58.600 --> 1:48:00.960 the songs, didn't matter that it wasn't Steve Perry. They 1:48:00.960 --> 1:48:02.960 were there for the song. The same thing as with four, 1:48:03.000 --> 1:48:06.160 Absolutely the same movement. But the problem is everybody has 1:48:06.200 --> 1:48:12.640 heard a Journey everybody. All Right, I challenge what. I know. 1:48:12.680 --> 1:48:14.280 You're the manager, but I think you're living in a 1:48:14.320 --> 1:48:16.599 little bit of a bubble. For those of us who 1:48:16.640 --> 1:48:19.439 lived the first albums in seventy seven, I want to 1:48:19.479 --> 1:48:22.559 know what love is? Was the eighty four eighty three 1:48:24.000 --> 1:48:26.960 first album came out in seventy eight, right, they've got 1:48:27.000 --> 1:48:30.880 together in uh and the want of this was on 1:48:30.920 --> 1:48:35.120 the fifth album. Right, So anybody who lived through that 1:48:35.200 --> 1:48:38.840 era knows who foreigner? Well, I have just stopped. What 1:48:39.160 --> 1:48:44.360 made Journey different was the finality of the Sopranos. Irving 1:48:44.520 --> 1:48:48.240 says two things made Journey different. Okay, FINALI of the 1:48:48.280 --> 1:48:51.559 Sopranos and a tour that they did supporting definitely epid. 1:48:52.000 --> 1:48:54.760 He puts it down to those two things. Well, the 1:48:54.880 --> 1:48:57.639 way it was only last year that this is years ago, 1:48:57.720 --> 1:49:00.160 I know because last year they played stadiums them, let 1:49:00.280 --> 1:49:02.479 know what they did. But many years ago they did 1:49:02.479 --> 1:49:06.120 a theater tour playing like the Beacon in you that 1:49:06.240 --> 1:49:09.760 size place and so theoretically, what could you do with 1:49:09.840 --> 1:49:14.160 foreigner to achieve that same mind share. Um, I am 1:49:14.200 --> 1:49:16.679 going to disagree with you. Firstly, that everybody has not hurting. 1:49:16.800 --> 1:49:18.640 I mean, I challenge you to do my test on 1:49:18.680 --> 1:49:22.880 a plane one day. Okay, people under the age of forty, 1:49:24.000 --> 1:49:28.160 but people over the age of forty. I'm surprised. People. 1:49:28.880 --> 1:49:32.000 Our target market is what you've just said. Really, it's 1:49:32.080 --> 1:49:36.120 forty and up evenly split male female. Funnily enough, but 1:49:36.240 --> 1:49:39.519 you talked to people of between your age and my age, 1:49:39.840 --> 1:49:42.680 and you're saying, you know this conversation, they have not 1:49:42.760 --> 1:49:44.840 heard of foreigner. They will tell you they have not 1:49:44.920 --> 1:49:47.160 heard of foreigner. I guess no experience, but I trust 1:49:47.200 --> 1:49:50.720 you've got to do it. Okay, well know they know 1:49:50.880 --> 1:49:53.559 the songs, but they do not know who recorded. So 1:49:53.680 --> 1:49:55.800 what I started to do when I realized that was 1:49:56.120 --> 1:49:59.240 every foreign at print ad that I take has the 1:49:59.280 --> 1:50:03.320 song titles right. So my mantra to my marketing director 1:50:03.320 --> 1:50:07.120 Guy is the mentor the songs are the brand. And 1:50:07.240 --> 1:50:09.840 over the last it's been a slug. I'm telling you, 1:50:10.080 --> 1:50:13.800 over the last fifteen years, we've changed that perspective. But 1:50:13.920 --> 1:50:17.120 the reality is here, we are with more hits than Journey, 1:50:17.240 --> 1:50:20.760 more top ten hits than Journey, and we're worth one 1:50:20.880 --> 1:50:23.639 third of Journey in the eyes of a promoter. Okright, 1:50:24.000 --> 1:50:27.960 we're gradually changing that because we're doing great business this year, 1:50:28.320 --> 1:50:30.400 but this will be next year, will be our third 1:50:30.840 --> 1:50:35.080 Live Nation headline Amphithy editor, so you know we're looking 1:50:35.080 --> 1:50:37.719 forward to that one. Last year we had David Coverdell 1:50:38.000 --> 1:50:41.519 with White Snake and Jason Bonham supporting, and we look 1:50:41.560 --> 1:50:44.720 into a big, big deal for next year. So we 1:50:44.760 --> 1:50:46.719 didn't do it this year. We just did state fairs, 1:50:46.760 --> 1:50:51.680 casinos and did amazing business. And you know that's but 1:50:51.840 --> 1:50:53.880 every time you've got to tell people who they are. 1:50:54.200 --> 1:50:57.479 We've got the same number of hits as Fleetwood Mac, 1:50:57.760 --> 1:51:00.719 We've only got one less top ten song than the Eagles, 1:51:01.320 --> 1:51:04.559 but nobody has heard in Foreigner. Okay, I'm gonna I'm 1:51:04.560 --> 1:51:07.360 gonna cut off your sales pitch, and I'm a Foreigner fan. 1:51:07.800 --> 1:51:09.640 I mean, just like I was talking about, you know, 1:51:09.640 --> 1:51:12.719 because Rick o'kaseck died at rick Akasak however he wanted, 1:51:12.960 --> 1:51:16.479 however he did pronounce it, and of course their comeback 1:51:16.600 --> 1:51:19.599 was with Mutt Lang and you had the same thing. 1:51:19.640 --> 1:51:22.200 But their album with the album that Mutt Lang Foreigner 1:51:22.320 --> 1:51:27.040 for stupendous, Okay, I mean, Waiting for a Girl like 1:51:27.120 --> 1:51:30.519 You doesn't get any better than that. Never mind, you 1:51:30.560 --> 1:51:36.920 know Jukebox here Jukebox Heroes different, but it's like urgent, unbelieving, unbelievable. 1:51:36.960 --> 1:51:40.519 I mean, the whole thing was terrific album. But you know, 1:51:41.320 --> 1:51:43.240 Journey is a different thing. Don't forget they put out 1:51:43.240 --> 1:51:45.760 all the albums with the other singer, Greg Rowley that 1:51:45.800 --> 1:51:51.080 were stiff, okay, and they certainly played stadiums before they 1:51:51.240 --> 1:51:55.080 broke up. But you know, I remember Jeff Beck was 1:51:55.560 --> 1:52:00.759 managed by Harvey Goldsmith, and before Jeff fired him, Harvey 1:52:00.840 --> 1:52:03.720 had him everywhere. Jeff Beck is no better today than 1:52:03.760 --> 1:52:06.800 he ever was. He was always stupendous, But once he 1:52:06.840 --> 1:52:09.519 was on every TV show, the people who didn't know 1:52:09.600 --> 1:52:14.160 that realized that promoter. Right. But I'm trying to say 1:52:14.240 --> 1:52:16.280 is the question is you know whether you can have 1:52:16.439 --> 1:52:18.519 that foreign or moment and if you tried to get 1:52:18.520 --> 1:52:22.120 a one of those multi hits in a definitive movie 1:52:22.280 --> 1:52:26.040 or anything. We have had some successes. We had a 1:52:26.080 --> 1:52:28.720 sync license for I Want to Know What Love Is 1:52:28.800 --> 1:52:32.599 was the final episode of Oranges and The New Black 1:52:33.000 --> 1:52:35.880 and they used the lyrics for a wedding in the 1:52:35.920 --> 1:52:37.679 thing and they went out went out with the whole 1:52:37.680 --> 1:52:39.760 So will be on TV forever, Yeah, it will be. 1:52:39.840 --> 1:52:43.439 It's not as big as the Sopranos. Sopranos that that 1:52:43.640 --> 1:52:46.760 really broke journey. Okay. But the other thing about now, 1:52:46.880 --> 1:52:49.240 I mean you talk about people don't know Foreigner. We 1:52:49.280 --> 1:52:51.679 could sit here and we could talk about the TV 1:52:51.760 --> 1:52:54.599 shows we watched, and they could be completely different shows. 1:52:54.920 --> 1:52:57.240 This was an error where if you watched TV, everybody 1:52:57.280 --> 1:53:00.800 watched when these things would come going out, there was 1:53:00.840 --> 1:53:03.880 only one radio example, you know, and we we didn't 1:53:03.920 --> 1:53:06.000 know it was classic rock at the time right there, 1:53:06.040 --> 1:53:08.160 if that was the only format. Okay, well that begs 1:53:08.160 --> 1:53:14.000 the question today's music, where personally I'm sort of nowhere 1:53:14.040 --> 1:53:17.160 with it because you know, I'm seventy five and I'm 1:53:17.160 --> 1:53:22.559 getting ready to retire. So my whole thing is working Foreigner, 1:53:22.800 --> 1:53:24.880 trying to get it where I want it to be. 1:53:25.400 --> 1:53:29.799 And you know, we're working with THEE. Snyder, we're making movies, 1:53:29.840 --> 1:53:32.240 we're doing all kinds of different things with the who 1:53:32.320 --> 1:53:35.639 is an incredibly talented man, by the way, much much 1:53:35.720 --> 1:53:40.000 less playing music now than writing stuff and co producing. 1:53:40.200 --> 1:53:45.200 His son Cody is making a movie shortly with a 1:53:45.200 --> 1:53:48.559 big studio, so we're working that side of the business. 1:53:48.560 --> 1:53:51.920 But with Foreigner, I just want to leave this at 1:53:52.120 --> 1:53:54.800 least as big as it was back in the day, 1:53:55.200 --> 1:53:57.960 and we're getting there, you know, but it's it's a 1:53:58.040 --> 1:54:01.240 struggle for the for the for the reason I told 1:54:01.240 --> 1:54:04.920 you now. The big thing these days is sync licensing, 1:54:04.960 --> 1:54:08.479 as you probably know, and sync licensing is the number 1:54:08.479 --> 1:54:12.280 one driver of streams. So we got a use in 1:54:12.560 --> 1:54:17.040 um stranger things, and the streams went through the damn 1:54:17.120 --> 1:54:21.840 roofs was cold as ice. And that's suddenly now we're 1:54:21.880 --> 1:54:25.400 starting to see younger people coming for because of these things. 1:54:25.439 --> 1:54:29.320 So we're gung ho after getting if any music supervisor 1:54:29.400 --> 1:54:31.680 at their listings, I will cut you one hell of 1:54:31.720 --> 1:54:34.000 a deal extranger of things. They came to you, or 1:54:34.040 --> 1:54:36.720 you can went to them. Well, Warners have a very 1:54:36.720 --> 1:54:41.440 good sync licensing department and Warner's own the original thing, 1:54:41.560 --> 1:54:44.080 so they came to us with that. You know, I 1:54:44.120 --> 1:54:47.880 don't have anyone out there, you know, because the major 1:54:48.000 --> 1:54:51.960 labels have almost a lock on this stuff because they've 1:54:52.000 --> 1:54:55.480 got such a massive amount of repertoire. You will go. 1:54:55.600 --> 1:54:59.240 You can go to a movie studio meeting, a studio 1:54:59.320 --> 1:55:04.000 meeting and you'll see a rep from Universal Warner or 1:55:05.120 --> 1:55:10.400 well Kevin Weaver Atlanta. Keep my god, that guy gets everything. 1:55:11.560 --> 1:55:13.920 Robert Plant called me up one day after I stop 1:55:14.000 --> 1:55:17.000 managing him because he used to call me, still calls 1:55:17.080 --> 1:55:20.600 me frequently. Uh. He said, can you get me like 1:55:21.240 --> 1:55:24.240 a movie thing? And I called up Kevin and I 1:55:25.080 --> 1:55:28.680 spent here and I spent three days together. We called 1:55:28.800 --> 1:55:32.040 up everybody that we knew, everybody because I know a 1:55:32.120 --> 1:55:34.600 number of directors from that time in film business. He 1:55:34.640 --> 1:55:37.400 knows everybody. The tour of us sat on that phone 1:55:37.760 --> 1:55:42.800 and Kevin got him the end title to the Day 1:55:42.840 --> 1:55:47.000 after Tomorrow, Big movie, right right. Robert, in his wisdom, 1:55:47.040 --> 1:55:54.400 turned it down. Artists, So thanks so much for being 1:55:55.000 --> 1:55:57.520 once again. You're listening to Phil Carson on the barb 1:55:57.600 --> 1:56:06.680 Left That's podcast. We'll see you next week.