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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: The former Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta is with us

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Speaker 2: now to hit this in a few hotspots around the

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Speaker 2: world that have the administration's attention and the concern of

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Speaker 2: the American people. Mister Secretary, it's great to see you.

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Speaker 2: We know that Vladimir Putin is capable of using cold

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Speaker 2: as a weapon. He was more than willing to do

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Speaker 2: that in winter. Now that Russia is targeting Ukraine's energy infrastructure,

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Speaker 2: do you think he's willing to use this nuclear power

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Speaker 2: plant as a weapon.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, we know Putin for what he is,

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Speaker 3: which is a tyrant who won't stop at attacking whatever

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Speaker 3: a possible target he views as as convenient for what

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Speaker 3: the Russians are doing in Ukraine. And so he's threatened

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Speaker 3: the use of nuclear weapons. He's threatened the use of

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Speaker 3: the effort to go after a nuclear plant if necessary.

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Speaker 3: So he clearly has threatened to take those steps.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 3: I think he's also got to know that if he

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Speaker 3: does do something that results in a radiation impact that

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Speaker 3: could spread to other countries, he's asking for serious trouble.

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Speaker 4: And I think Article five violation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Jane was right to at least raise

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Speaker 3: the specter that if other countries are impacted by this,

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Speaker 3: there clearly is at least an issue involving Article five

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Speaker 3: as to whether or not there has been an attack

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Speaker 3: on those countries. So I think Putin has to really

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Speaker 3: think long and hard about whether he really wants to

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Speaker 3: get into that much trouble with NATO and the United States.

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Speaker 5: Well, Sir, Obviously, around the question of Article five, we

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Speaker 5: have heard in the not so distant past from former

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Speaker 5: president and presidential candidate Donald Trump on the idea that

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Speaker 5: any NATO countries that weren't paying enough may not get

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Speaker 5: US protection. If the day should come, and Donald Trump

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Speaker 5: is meeting and doing a joint press conference with the

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Speaker 5: Speaker of the House tomorrow at Maro Lago. The Speaker

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Speaker 5: has the power to decide the fate of Ukraine in

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Speaker 5: the US Congress. How worried are you about the nature

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Speaker 5: of that relationship, knowing that Congress may very well never

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Speaker 5: pass a for Ukraine.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm very worried about it because I think the Congress,

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Speaker 3: and particularly the Republican House, has really been very irresponsible

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Speaker 3: in dealing with this issue. I think there's doing mistake

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Speaker 3: here that our national security is involved here. It's not

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Speaker 3: just about protecting democracy in Ukraine. It's about protecting democracy

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Speaker 3: twenty first century. And we've made very clear that Ukraine

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Speaker 3: must win and that Putin must fail in his effort

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Speaker 3: to try to undermine that democracy. The United States has

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Speaker 3: taking a clear position with our NATO allies, and I

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Speaker 3: think if Congress, if the House should fail to provide

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Speaker 3: the necessary aid that is required here for Ukraine, they

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Speaker 3: are basically playing Putin's game and playing into his hand,

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Speaker 3: and that really does damage our credibility in terms of

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Speaker 3: our national security if the United States cannot act as

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Speaker 3: it should on a bipartisan basis in providing the necessary

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Speaker 3: aid that Ukraine requires.

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Speaker 2: Secondary of pin out of There are great concerns that

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Speaker 2: Iran may be about to strike in a retaliatory strike

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Speaker 2: against Israel following Israel's strike in Damascus recently. The US

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Speaker 2: says that it will support Israel no matter what happens.

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Speaker 2: In White House Press Secretary Karine John Pierre today was

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Speaker 2: asked about the threat from Iran and how the US

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Speaker 2: might respond to an attack against Israel. Here's what she said,

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Speaker 2: We'll have you respond.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get into hypotheticals here. What we

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Speaker 1: have made very clear. Obviously, we've seen the threats coming

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Speaker 1: from Iran, and so we have made ourselves very clear

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Speaker 1: where we stand in supporting Israel's security. That is ironclad,

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Speaker 1: that does not change. I'm just not going to get

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Speaker 1: into details about our operational procedures from here.

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Speaker 2: Mister secretary, with your background running both the Pentagon and

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Speaker 2: the CIA for that matter, I wonder what you're hearing

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Speaker 2: about this. How concerned we should be what's about to happen.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'd be very concerned.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's a couple things that are happening that

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Speaker 3: are deep concerned. One is that the latest reports are

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Speaker 3: that Iran has developed enough and rich nuclear fuel that

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Speaker 3: it could very soon possess a nuclear weapon. That's unacceptable,

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Speaker 3: and the United States has to make clear that that's

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Speaker 3: unacceptable and if Iran should attack in any way directly

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Speaker 3: attack Israel, I think the United States has a responsibility

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Speaker 3: to come to Israel's.

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Speaker 4: Defense in that kind of situation.

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Speaker 3: So Iran ought to understand if it does make the

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Speaker 3: decision to deliberately attack Israel, that it is asking for

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Speaker 3: the kind of trouble and response that could very well

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Speaker 3: undermine their own regime if they want to put their

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Speaker 3: regime on the line, this is what they're asking.

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Speaker 5: Well, mister Secretary, we just here this evening have discussed

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Speaker 5: a hot war in the Middle East, a hot war

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Speaker 5: on the continent of Europe. There is a trilateral meeting

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Speaker 5: happening in the White House talking about threats emanating from China. Certainly,

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Speaker 5: the world does feel very dangerous right now, and yet

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Speaker 5: there is a live debate on Capitol Hill at the

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Speaker 5: moment as to whether or not we should reauthorize warrantless

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Speaker 5: surveillance Section seven oh two, specifically of FISA. Lawmakers are

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Speaker 5: going to try again tomorrow on a shorter two year

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Speaker 5: extension after an effort to advance a five year extension

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Speaker 5: yesterday failed. What would you tell those on Capitol Hill,

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Speaker 5: Wane this measure as we speak, they should know about

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Speaker 5: FISA and why it may be important as we face

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Speaker 5: so many different conflicts.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I would tell them that they are elected by

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Speaker 3: the American people in principle to not just govern, but

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Speaker 3: to defend our security, and if they fail to pass

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Speaker 3: and reauthorize the FISA law, what they're doing is undermining

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Speaker 3: our security, because that's.

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Speaker 4: The one vehicle.

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Speaker 3: We have to be able to go after terrorists who

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Speaker 3: have no other intention but to attack the United States

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Speaker 3: of America.

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Speaker 4: Terrorists have made that clear.

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Speaker 3: We know that from nine to eleven what they're after,

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Speaker 3: and our ability to gather intelligence from terrorists or operating

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Speaker 3: abroad is absolutely essential to our ability to provide security.

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Speaker 3: I don't think we have to choose between protecting security

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Speaker 3: and protecting our freedoms in this country. We have in

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Speaker 3: this law protections to make sure that we are protecting

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Speaker 3: the innocent in the process of gathering this kind of intelligence,

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Speaker 3: and there are reforms in this law that enhance that ability.

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Speaker 4: So this is not a choice between security or our freedoms.

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Speaker 3: This is going to be a vote that determines whether

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Speaker 3: or not we protect ourselves from the possibility of another

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Speaker 3: terrorist attack. I hope those who are thinking about this

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Speaker 3: vote understand that if they fail to provide this authorization,

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Speaker 3: they are in large measure to blame for any terrorist

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Speaker 3: attack that's subsequent. League takes place.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 5: Powerful words from a former Secretary of Defense, Leon Panetta.

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Speaker 5: Thank you so much for joining us this evening, Sir.

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Speaker 5: We appreciate your time