Speaker 1: On the Bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women and um are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best
Speaker 1: start changing it with the bel Cast. Hey, Jamie, Hey Caitlin,
Speaker 1: you don't tell me how to captain. I don't tell
Speaker 1: you how to pirate or something? Oh okay, oh like
Speaker 1: the beginning of the movie. Yeah, like like that one
Speaker 1: character said, Oh, I wanted to do the thing where
Speaker 1: Patrick Wilson says, like you will call me ocean master?
Speaker 1: Like that would have been better that just I think
Speaker 1: is imprinted on my mind for you know. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the Bechtel Cast. They're not all hits right at the top.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you gotta just get into it and it takes
Speaker 1: a little time. I'm going to find our groove. But welcome.
Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Durante,
Speaker 1: and this is our show in which we examine movies
Speaker 1: through an inter sectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel test
Speaker 1: just very much as a jumping off point. But what
Speaker 1: is it, Jamie, Oh, the Bechtel test or the movie.
Speaker 1: I'll say both. I'll do both. We're doing. We're doing
Speaker 1: Aquaman today, movie from James one one of my faves.
Speaker 1: I love watching interviews with James Wan. And this isn't
Speaker 1: passing the Bechtel test. And here's why. The Bechtels test
Speaker 1: is a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel,
Speaker 1: sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test. There's many different versions
Speaker 1: of it. Here's the one we use. We require that
Speaker 1: two characters of a marginalized gender with names speak to
Speaker 1: each other about something other than a man for two
Speaker 1: lines of dialogue. There are so many three hour movies
Speaker 1: that don't pass this simple metric, and this movie was
Speaker 1: almost one of them. But we'll get there later. But
Speaker 1: recovering Aquaman and uh, i'm I'm I'm very excited to
Speaker 1: discuss this movie particular, really because we're bringing back one
Speaker 1: of the greats we sure are. Our guest is Bi
Speaker 1: racial Anisha Nabe, founder of the A La Test. You
Speaker 1: remember her from our episode on Frozen two. It's Ali Nady. Hi,
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back. Thank you for invited me back.
Speaker 1: I was so happy when I got your email and
Speaker 1: I was just like, yes, pumped about this, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: And you have brought us Aquaman. Tell us about your
Speaker 1: relationship with this movie. Okay, So going a little bit
Speaker 1: earlier than that, when you reached out to me, I
Speaker 1: was like really struggling with a movie to talk about.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm like, oh, man, because you know, Native people,
Speaker 1: you know, we're not a monolith. You know, we come
Speaker 1: from different cultures, different you know, parts of the country,
Speaker 1: different parts of the continent. So I'm like, okay, so
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of movies I wanted to talk about,
Speaker 1: but I don't belong to those specific groups. Maybe someone
Speaker 1: from those groups should be the one talking about it.
Speaker 1: And then I wanted to talk about Avatar, but I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe not for Thanksgiving, you know, maybe not
Speaker 1: for Thanksgiving, but um yeah. So I really struggled, and
Speaker 1: I was really thinking about it. And then finally Aquaman.
Speaker 1: You know, I realized that even if it's not specifically
Speaker 1: Polynesian or Hawaiian, you know, he is American, he is indigenous,
Speaker 1: and he's biracial, and so am I. And um that
Speaker 1: was the last film that I ever saw in a
Speaker 1: theater with my mom. So yeah, so there's gonna be
Speaker 1: a lot of moments I apologize in advance. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: cry probably a couple of times. And uh yeah, like
Speaker 1: this movie, ever since it came out, ever since I
Speaker 1: saw it with Mom, really spoke to me as someone
Speaker 1: who is biracial, as someone whose mother is white and
Speaker 1: whose father is Indigenous, and it really I felt represented
Speaker 1: in a way even if I wasn't Polynesian in Hawaiian.
Speaker 1: You know it really, it really did tug at my
Speaker 1: heart strings. And I felt kind of silly like saying
Speaker 1: that just because it is a goofy superhero movie that
Speaker 1: may or may not be that good. But I had
Speaker 1: a fun time. Oh, I had a last But I
Speaker 1: mean everyone deserves to be represented and seen in the
Speaker 1: whole spectrum of movies, whether they're goofy superhero movies that
Speaker 1: perhaps have plots that are messy. I mean, thank you
Speaker 1: for sharing that, Ali, I mean with that context in particular,
Speaker 1: like of course this is a special movie to you,
Speaker 1: and like it's I don't know, I was I had
Speaker 1: not seen this movie. I think I just generally I
Speaker 1: usually wait on superhero movies because I guess I don't
Speaker 1: I guess just not seeing them in theaters because I
Speaker 1: feel like everyone knows something that I don't and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I can't hang and they're gonna be mad at me.
Speaker 1: But I really I thought this was it was perhaps
Speaker 1: a bit long, but I I love James Wand's work,
Speaker 1: and I was very like, kind of surprised and impressed,
Speaker 1: having very very little understanding of Aquaman other than knowing
Speaker 1: him as like the goofy superhero because he is a
Speaker 1: fish um. But but outside of that, I didn't know anything.
Speaker 1: And I thought that the way that the themes that
Speaker 1: were kind of chosen for this this Aquaman story where
Speaker 1: was really cool and most of them worked really effectively,
Speaker 1: and for me, canonically, Patrick Wilson and Nicole Kidman wore
Speaker 1: the same wig for the whole movie, and that was
Speaker 1: awesome too. So yeah, I'm a I I think I'm
Speaker 1: a fan of this movie. Yeah, I think I am. Caitlin.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, well, I saw it not in theaters, but
Speaker 1: I did see it on a plane. I could plane
Speaker 1: movie like nine months a year after it had come out,
Speaker 1: because enough by then enough people had seen it and
Speaker 1: I had heard I had heard the reviews, which were,
Speaker 1: I feel like, pretty mixed and still are as far
Speaker 1: as like, and I was Admittedly, when I first saw it,
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, the means on sand is
Speaker 1: is busy James won the j one. Yeah, when I
Speaker 1: first saw the action scene, I was like, oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: I was having a lot of sensory overload throughout the um.
Speaker 1: But then when we reached out to you, Ali, so
Speaker 1: this is our quote unquote Thanksgiving episode in the sense
Speaker 1: that we are releasing it on the day that a
Speaker 1: lot of Americans observed Thanksgiving. But we wanted to showcase
Speaker 1: an indigenous movie or you know, a movie by indigenous filmmakers,
Speaker 1: or a movie that has some Indigenous ties to it.
Speaker 1: And then we reached out to U Eli. And then
Speaker 1: when you came back to us with Aquaman, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, right, it didn't really occur to me
Speaker 1: that this would be like considered an indigenous movie. And
Speaker 1: then you spoke a little bit about it, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, yes, of course, and I knew that
Speaker 1: you would like bring this really great perspective that would
Speaker 1: give me a better appreciation for the movie, which like
Speaker 1: it already has. And I know that are like conversation
Speaker 1: Will and like, yeah, I still think about the Fresen
Speaker 1: two episode all the time. Because I feel like that
Speaker 1: might be like possibly the most that I've been like
Speaker 1: mind blown and swede on a movie that I was
Speaker 1: not at all expecting to see very much in in
Speaker 1: the course of an episode, Like I don't know, I
Speaker 1: think about it often. I'm really touched. I'm really glad
Speaker 1: that you guys like that and that my insight so much. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course. Yeah. And um, even going with Aquaman, like again,
Speaker 1: I had like a lot of turmoil because I'm not
Speaker 1: you know, Hawaiian and I'm not Maudy like um Tamira
Speaker 1: Morrison is the actor who plays his dad. He's Maudi,
Speaker 1: which is indigenous to New Zealand. And Um, it's a
Speaker 1: very important distinction that Native Hawaiians, while they are indigenous,
Speaker 1: they are not Native American. That is a big one,
Speaker 1: you know, like a lot of people try to lump
Speaker 1: them all in because we're indigenous and it's it's not
Speaker 1: their Polynesian. They are very adamant that, you know, they
Speaker 1: are not American, you know, but still you know, like
Speaker 1: it's still indigenous. And I felt more comfortable talking about
Speaker 1: this movie just because it isn't like Lelo and Stitch
Speaker 1: or Once We're Warriors where it is very distinctly a
Speaker 1: Hawaiian film, a Hawaiian culture, or a Maudi film and
Speaker 1: Maudi culture, you know, it takes place a main so
Speaker 1: and um, you know, like even though Aquaman's design in
Speaker 1: the movie movie is very distinctly you know, Polynesian, you know,
Speaker 1: with the tattoos and he speaks um. I think he
Speaker 1: says a couple of lines of dialogue that are in Maudi.
Speaker 1: That's what I was seeing just in the in the
Speaker 1: captions of the movie. But he um. Those actors could
Speaker 1: have been played by anybody, really, I mean, they could
Speaker 1: have been black, they could have been any race. And
Speaker 1: the fact that it is indigenous, like brought this entire
Speaker 1: perspective that really connected. Even if I'm not from those islands.
Speaker 1: So you know, I feel like I'm kind of in
Speaker 1: a safe gray area, you know, I don't want to
Speaker 1: feel like I'm talking over anybody. But it did speak
Speaker 1: to me. And when I did a lot of research
Speaker 1: for the movie, I saw that it spoke to a
Speaker 1: lot of biracial people just across the board. So right,
Speaker 1: and I mean you bring up an interesting point where
Speaker 1: some of the characters are indigenous, Aquaman is biracial, and
Speaker 1: that's acknowledged in the movie, but it's it doesn't become
Speaker 1: this thing where like so much of his identity is like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm so torn and look at me being the victim
Speaker 1: of racism all the time and stuff like that. It's
Speaker 1: more about like his identity is just normalized within the
Speaker 1: context of the world he's living in, which and like
Speaker 1: you said, he could have been played by any actor
Speaker 1: of any color in a way that again just like
Speaker 1: normalizes his existence in the world, which is like what
Speaker 1: we're trying to move toward when it comes to representation.
Speaker 1: So that was something I really appreciated about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I mean I just I love Jason Momoa, and like,
Speaker 1: you can't not love Jason Momoa as of this recording.
Speaker 1: I feel like we always have to be like yeah
Speaker 1: as at this time, No, but um, he's great and
Speaker 1: I feel like I really and we'll get into this too,
Speaker 1: but uh, going off of what you were just saying, Caitlin,
Speaker 1: I really was touched by how like thoughtful Aquaman was
Speaker 1: as a character and how he was like I mean
Speaker 1: not you know whatever. Every superhero has to be emotionally
Speaker 1: stunted if they're a man without fail like that's just
Speaker 1: the law. But I thought, I felt I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm trying to think of a specific example,
Speaker 1: but I feel like there's a lot of superhero movies
Speaker 1: where the like male hero like doesn't have feelings or
Speaker 1: like I don't emote, blah blah blah. And Aquaman is
Speaker 1: like struggling with his you know, finding his place in
Speaker 1: the world and trying to figure out where he fits.
Speaker 1: But he like talks about it with people and like
Speaker 1: talks about like even when he there's that scene, um
Speaker 1: when they're on the boat, Um, Aquaman and Mara are
Speaker 1: on the boat and he is talking about how he
Speaker 1: killed or was the what is the pirate character's name,
Speaker 1: David David. I think it's his name. I was like,
Speaker 1: what's his name because I thought it was like a
Speaker 1: superhero name, and I'm like, David David slash Manta. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: But he's talking about how he feels like guilty for
Speaker 1: killing Manta's father, and I was like, I feel like
Speaker 1: you don't get those moments from superheroes very often. And
Speaker 1: then they have a discussion about his role in the
Speaker 1: world and where he wants to be. There was actually
Speaker 1: there was a lot of like scenes between Mira and
Speaker 1: Aquaman that we're reminding me of like Simba and Nala
Speaker 1: in the second act of The Lion King where she
Speaker 1: like shows up and she's like, you have to be king,
Speaker 1: and he's like, that's that's not my life anymore. And
Speaker 1: then eventually obviously that is a great point, Damie, thank
Speaker 1: you so much. Women be telling men they have to
Speaker 1: be the gang. It's just mean, it's a trope at
Speaker 1: this point. Um, I'm so excited to get more into
Speaker 1: the discussion. Let's be kept the movie and then we'll
Speaker 1: get into it. Okay. So we open on Aquaman's mom
Speaker 1: and dad meeting in. His mom is Atlanta played by
Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman. She is the Queen of Atlantis who fled
Speaker 1: to land to escape and arranged marriage. His dad is
Speaker 1: a human man named Tom played by Tamura Morrison, who
Speaker 1: is a lighthouse keeper. He's a lighthousekeeper. That is high.
Speaker 1: That's really hot, that he's a lighthouse keeper. He is
Speaker 1: really hot period and anything true. He's really underlated to
Speaker 1: be a lighthouse keeper. He's hot, but it doesn't hurt.
Speaker 1: He's also been the voice of Boba Fette for like
Speaker 1: nearly twenty years, I want to say, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: Django Fett and Clone Wars and that our Clone Wars
Speaker 1: attack the Clones. And then he's Mr Fette in some
Speaker 1: capacity and has been for a while. He's back in
Speaker 1: the Mandalorian and he's doing the book about the only
Speaker 1: time I have never liked him was in Once Her
Speaker 1: Warriors because he's like violently abusive in that movie, and
Speaker 1: it's like, ah, it's hard, like get a Maudie guest
Speaker 1: on the show to talk about it because it's good,
Speaker 1: but it is like I almost hated him. Thank god
Speaker 1: he made this movie because I love him again. But yeah,
Speaker 1: this one he's at he's being a good dad in
Speaker 1: a lighthouse and I love that. So Atlanta and Tom
Speaker 1: fall in love and they have a baby named Arthur.
Speaker 1: And then when Arthur is a small child, or vas
Speaker 1: the king of Atlantis or one of the kings, because
Speaker 1: you find out there several kings who Atlanta was arranged
Speaker 1: to be married to, he sends soldiers to capture Atlanta
Speaker 1: and bring her back, and she realizes that she has
Speaker 1: to return to Atlantis. I kept writing down Atlanta in
Speaker 1: my notes, so if I accidentally say Atlanta to refer
Speaker 1: to either Atlantis or Atlanta. With my accent, I'm going
Speaker 1: to call him Accaman at least twenty million times, so
Speaker 1: apologies to everyone. Yeah, I'm gonna say the wrong names
Speaker 1: all the time. So she kind of surrenders and returns
Speaker 1: to Atlantis in order to keep Tom and Arthur safe.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm such a fool. I was like, Wow, I
Speaker 1: can't believe the call given did this movie for two minutes?
Speaker 1: That's so interesting? But then I was like oh, and
Speaker 1: then later I was like, oh, right, right, she wouldn't
Speaker 1: do that. That wouldn't make sense. She does say that
Speaker 1: one day she will return, which is foreshadowing that's a plant.
Speaker 1: Can I just talk about like that whole introduction to
Speaker 1: the movie, because you know, Okay, I'm gonna try to
Speaker 1: keep it together. So my um my mom and I
Speaker 1: when we went and saw this movie, I had just
Speaker 1: moved home from Finland. I was going through divorce, and
Speaker 1: she had pay creatic cancer and was just about to
Speaker 1: go into receiving treatment for that. So, uh so watching
Speaker 1: this movie with her like right next to me, mhm,
Speaker 1: she um you know, it was kind of foreshadowing things
Speaker 1: that not only that I was going to have to
Speaker 1: deal with I'm I'm sorry, no, no, no, please take
Speaker 1: your time. But you know, also but also things that
Speaker 1: my dad was going to be dealing with, because because
Speaker 1: you want to be hopeful, and you want to be
Speaker 1: hopeful what you know, you know that that's not how
Speaker 1: it's going to be, you know, in the end, and um,
Speaker 1: her absence and the movie, you know, like it touches
Speaker 1: the characters so much. You know, like when he goes
Speaker 1: down to the dock every morning morning, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: because she says that, you know, we'll be together again
Speaker 1: and she'll see again and she'll yeah, she'll she's like,
Speaker 1: I'll meet you here one day. And then of course Arthur,
Speaker 1: you know, like not having his mother and his life
Speaker 1: is damaging, you know, like it's it's painful, and especially
Speaker 1: like with this extra layer with racism and separation from
Speaker 1: your culture and not really belonging to that culture, you know,
Speaker 1: especially not fully belonging to a culture of someone that
Speaker 1: you love on top of that, you know, it's, uh yeah,
Speaker 1: it gets to you, you know when you're watching this
Speaker 1: as this biracial kid, um kid, you know, I was
Speaker 1: like thirty, but you know, but you know, watching it
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, just kind of sitting there in the
Speaker 1: theater with mom and watching this and kind of know
Speaker 1: whing you know, in the back of your head, what's
Speaker 1: going to happen? And uh, the whole introch of the
Speaker 1: movie first ten minutes of Aquaman. I'm a bad like this, um,
Speaker 1: but thankfully, thankfully the movie is a lot more fun
Speaker 1: than uh than this. The tone, the tone shifts a
Speaker 1: bit from that point onward, but it is, I mean,
Speaker 1: it is like it's really beautifully done, like that that
Speaker 1: scene of them, oh for sure, because they do. They
Speaker 1: look just like my parents. I mean, it totally looks
Speaker 1: like my parents. So that wasn't lost on me. And yeah,
Speaker 1: and I love I love that Aquaman loves his dad,
Speaker 1: you know, especially especially you know, like as someone taking
Speaker 1: care of my dad, you know, as someone taking care
Speaker 1: of your dad, you know, by yourself. Like no, I'm
Speaker 1: not really by myself, like my sister's helped too, but
Speaker 1: you know, I I live with him, and I take
Speaker 1: care of them and make sure that you know, the
Speaker 1: house is taken care of and that he's taking as
Speaker 1: me to send and stuff, you know, and seeing Aquaman's
Speaker 1: relationship with his father, as you know, you're his son,
Speaker 1: but you're also his best friend and you're also his protector.
Speaker 1: You know. It's uh yeah, yeah, I do want to
Speaker 1: talk about their relationship more because I feel like that's
Speaker 1: one of the big strengths of the movie. It's I
Speaker 1: mean then just like how it's so funny because it's
Speaker 1: like I feel like that like is a testament to
Speaker 1: the actors, Like you don't actually spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time with Aquaman and his dad, but when you do,
Speaker 1: it's you just like feel it. And his dad is
Speaker 1: so like awesome, yeah good and supportive, and you know,
Speaker 1: Aquaman is like, I'm not Aquaman and his dad's like,
Speaker 1: oh good, it's awesome. Like and again that that feels
Speaker 1: like an outlier in a superhero movie where it like
Speaker 1: someone who's like very I mean, even though Arthur can't
Speaker 1: me with his mom for the majority of his life,
Speaker 1: she's he's still very connected to her and thinks well
Speaker 1: of her. I don't know, it's just I was like,
Speaker 1: the superhero loves his parents so much and it's so nice.
Speaker 1: And then there's Patrick Wilson. Oh man, this guy, this asshole,
Speaker 1: the character, not the actor, the actor. Yeah, he's about
Speaker 1: to show up before we see him, though we briefly
Speaker 1: see Arthur a few years later on a school trip
Speaker 1: to the aquarium with the two worst bullies ever in
Speaker 1: any movie ever, Brutle. That was so much to me,
Speaker 1: like the scene from the first Harry Potter movie where
Speaker 1: like he's talking to the snake through the glass, except
Speaker 1: Arthur's talking to some sharks or something, and then there's
Speaker 1: like two Dudley's behind him trying to bully him, and
Speaker 1: they're like so much older than he is, which is
Speaker 1: he looks like he's about like four and they're like
Speaker 1: they're like two ft taller than him. I'm just like
Speaker 1: James Wands fanning out here, but I feel like things
Speaker 1: that happen in James wand movies just happened like weirdly
Speaker 1: at an eleven sometimes for no reason at all, And
Speaker 1: I feel like that bullying moment, I'm like, why is
Speaker 1: this so intense and why are the bullies so old?
Speaker 1: And like what is happening? Um? But then it or
Speaker 1: like the moment where it's like whatever, Mira and Aquamand
Speaker 1: almost kissed and then there's an explosion like next to
Speaker 1: their heads and you're like, Mr Wand that was not necessary,
Speaker 1: But I'm glad you did it. There's like twenty explosions
Speaker 1: in this movie that happened out of nowhere, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: why again, it's quite jarring. He's just like, we have
Speaker 1: the budget, let's do it. The important thing we learned
Speaker 1: from the scene is that Aquaman is able to communicate
Speaker 1: with marine life. Then we cut to him as an adult.
Speaker 1: He's now Jason Momoa. He's already a badass superhero. We
Speaker 1: see this sequence where he stops this pirate attack against
Speaker 1: a Russian submarine, and the main pirate is David a
Speaker 1: k a. Black Manta, who is not quite Black Manta yet,
Speaker 1: but he's like kind of having his origin story in
Speaker 1: the background, fully having his origin story. There's a Shakespearean monologue,
Speaker 1: there's a dramatic explosion death like yes, yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1: He's played by yah Yah abdul Mateen. The second so
Speaker 1: Manta now has a vendetta against Aquaman because Manta's dad
Speaker 1: dies during this attack and Manta blames Aquaman. I felt
Speaker 1: so bad for him, like I legit. I mean, like
Speaker 1: even watching it, I'm like, oh man, that was mean
Speaker 1: as hell. Yeah, because he's like asked the sea for mercy.
Speaker 1: But then yeah, Aquaman does feel like guilty about it later,
Speaker 1: so I'm glad he does, because I felt bad that
Speaker 1: was brutal. Like I know that they're bad guys, and
Speaker 1: I know that they like killed in us at people
Speaker 1: and they're stealing ship and I'm like, man, the dude
Speaker 1: is begging you to save his dad. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I could say no, I take
Speaker 1: him to jail, which I mean, honestly makes for an
Speaker 1: interesting superhero because a lot of superheroes are so morally
Speaker 1: pure and good that it kind of gets boring. Boring.
Speaker 1: So for Aquaman to be like, no, dude, see uh
Speaker 1: later and then and then for him to like experience
Speaker 1: like which is a pretty human thing to do. He's
Speaker 1: like acting in sort of the you know, the emotion
Speaker 1: of the moment, and then later he has like a
Speaker 1: conflicting emotion about it, and yeah, that's just all very
Speaker 1: human stuff. My feeling of that, Yeah, that sequence I thought,
Speaker 1: especially like thinking about it when it comes up again
Speaker 1: later in the movie, because I wasn't sure if it
Speaker 1: was like when that was going to come back. It
Speaker 1: was like, I feel like he was doing kind of
Speaker 1: like almost like a the way that Arnold Schwarzenegger would
Speaker 1: handle an action scene where it's like quip, shoot, murder kill,
Speaker 1: but then we as the audience have to stay in
Speaker 1: that scene and like, watch how it affects the people
Speaker 1: who like the cool superhero leaves behind. And oh that
Speaker 1: that scene of like David climbing like the ladder shot,
Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, it's so like, it's so sad.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I think that that probably happens
Speaker 1: in action movies and superhero movies all the time, but
Speaker 1: the movie doesn't be like, and we're gonna stay here too,
Speaker 1: just so you can see how upset these pirates are.
Speaker 1: Like that was good though, because I feel like that
Speaker 1: legit like solidified him as a good villain with a
Speaker 1: good reason to hate. He's strongly motivated. Yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 1: Yeah that scene at the mid credit scene at the
Speaker 1: end with him in Randall Park, I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm I guess I'm excited for the next one. Let's go. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like really bad for him though. Um. On
Speaker 1: another note, just because this movie it's so long, but
Speaker 1: it's it's so long, but it has so much stuf
Speaker 1: in it, so there's so much lower there's so many flashbacks,
Speaker 1: so much history, so much legend, and all of it
Speaker 1: is awesome, but it's like they only really have time
Speaker 1: for one bad guy, and this movie has too, so
Speaker 1: he kind of halfway through gets kicked out, you know, like,
Speaker 1: oh the way, Black Manta, I'm doing other cool things.
Speaker 1: It's like they should have just saved him for the
Speaker 1: second movie or this one, and then did something with
Speaker 1: the worm later. But I don't know. It's like I
Speaker 1: feel like he deserved a lot better. Every time he's
Speaker 1: in there, he's great, but it's like you deserved a
Speaker 1: little bit more. Give him more space, for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I felt the same way. I hope that he's the
Speaker 1: like main I mean, I'm hoping that that mid credit
Speaker 1: scene sets him up as like the character in the
Speaker 1: second movie. I hope. I hope so too. Yeah, um,
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break right here and then we
Speaker 1: will come right back and we're back. So meanwhile, underwater
Speaker 1: in Atlantis, there are several different kingdoms. King Orm that's
Speaker 1: Patrick Wilson, is the king of one of them. He
Speaker 1: is Aquaman's half brother. Because Queen Atlanta is their mother,
Speaker 1: they obviously have different fathers. His right hand man is Volco. Okay,
Speaker 1: Willem Dafoe, which he keeps calling him his vizier, which
Speaker 1: I've only heard that word applied to jaffar. Same, So
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, okay, so William Dafoe is the
Speaker 1: Jaffar of this palace, except a good guy and not
Speaker 1: a villain. He's nice Jaffar. Also, it didn't occur to
Speaker 1: me to like halfway through the movie that Willem Dafoe
Speaker 1: is I feel like one of the few people who's
Speaker 1: in the m c U and the d C you
Speaker 1: as like super different characters. He's a villain in the
Speaker 1: m c U. It's also weird to see William Dafoe
Speaker 1: not as a villain. Yeah, so that's quite something. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think the only time he played like a hero
Speaker 1: or otherwise protagonist was in Platoon. Oh sure, and let's
Speaker 1: not forget the Last Temptation of Christ or whatever the
Speaker 1: Jesus later really Jesus famously a hero. Yeah there, And
Speaker 1: this is another I mean, I guess William Dafoe doesn't
Speaker 1: get near the lighthouse in this movie, but it's another
Speaker 1: movie with the lighthouse that he's in. Wow. Wow, good point, Jamie,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. That's why they paid me the
Speaker 1: big blocks. Um. So, King Orm is trying to unite
Speaker 1: at least four of the seven kingdoms so that he
Speaker 1: can become Ocean Master and legally declare war against the
Speaker 1: surface dwellers at which he wants to do because he
Speaker 1: thinks humans are going to be the demise of Atlantis
Speaker 1: and everyone living in Wonder, which we are because we
Speaker 1: are destroying our oceans. Um, I don't even think that's preachy,
Speaker 1: Like you know how in like fern Gully and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, Like the environmentalist issue kind of feels a
Speaker 1: little too on the nose. It's like, I mean that's
Speaker 1: kind of valid. Man, We are destroying the ocean, and
Speaker 1: the ocean is massive and vast, and we're sucking it
Speaker 1: all up. So yeah, that's another reason I'm really psyched
Speaker 1: on the Randall Park character because it seems like he's
Speaker 1: gonna like he's like an environmentalist, Like he's going to
Speaker 1: bring all of that into the next movie as well. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, like Patrick Wilson obviously, big old evil villain
Speaker 1: like spouting some of the nastiest rhetoric you could imagine
Speaker 1: in this movie. But humans are destroying the ocean. I mean,
Speaker 1: but then Nicole Kidman kind of shows up the end
Speaker 1: and she's like, no, they're not. It's like, that's we
Speaker 1: are who we are. I do like when a villain
Speaker 1: is motivated in such a way that is compelling or
Speaker 1: that like the odd it's gonna understand where they're coming from,
Speaker 1: even if we don't agree with like the execution of
Speaker 1: their plan or whatever it is, but like would be
Speaker 1: deeply fun character. But yeah, we're like, yeah, you're not wrong.
Speaker 1: Humans are destroying all of the environment. Okay, we're back
Speaker 1: on land. This Atlantean woman, Mara played by Amber Heard,
Speaker 1: she comes to the surface to relay all of this
Speaker 1: information to Aquaman and she's like, we need your help.
Speaker 1: We need to stop Orm again. Nala basically being like,
Speaker 1: you gotta come and be our king because he is
Speaker 1: the rightful heir to the throne because he's the firstborn
Speaker 1: son of Atlanta. And that's the moment you realize, Oh,
Speaker 1: Jason Momoa, even though he's like six years younger than
Speaker 1: Patrick Wilson, is supposed to be older than Orm's character.
Speaker 1: He's taller and that equals older. And then also Nicole
Speaker 1: Kiman is supposed to be playing Patrick Wilson's mother, she's
Speaker 1: like seven years older because don't think too hard about it,
Speaker 1: and she's only twelve years older than Jason Momoa. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, you did not cast an age appropriate
Speaker 1: actor to play their mother. Well, I don't know what
Speaker 1: kind of like packed that Patrick Wilson and James Wan have,
Speaker 1: but Patrick Wilson has to be in all of his
Speaker 1: movies or except for Malignant, But Patrick Wilson isn't in
Speaker 1: like literally all of James Want's movies. So that's I
Speaker 1: think why he's here. Something interesting that, you know, upon
Speaker 1: watching Aquaman uh several times was um or you know, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's a good villain, but the
Speaker 1: interesting thing about him is that there's room for like
Speaker 1: complexity because you know, he benefits from a society and
Speaker 1: a system that gives him power, of course, and it's
Speaker 1: interesting that he doesn't hate his dad for killing his mother.
Speaker 1: You know, there's never a moment where it's like Atlantis
Speaker 1: was sucking wrong for what they did to my mom.
Speaker 1: This is bullshit because it's easier to blame it on Aquaman,
Speaker 1: like if it wasn't for you, and it wasn't for
Speaker 1: your dad, my mom would still be alive, and this
Speaker 1: is your fault, which goes into like the racial implications too,
Speaker 1: because he's totally an ocean colonizer, like an ocean supremacist,
Speaker 1: like he is started by the end of the movie,
Speaker 1: he's like spouting pure blood like he's He's like, they
Speaker 1: go all the way with that characters. Yeah politics, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I noticed that as well, and like contrasting that with
Speaker 1: how Aquaman feels of like I sort of assumed just
Speaker 1: based on having seen superhero movies. I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: Aquaman is going to blame himself for what happened to
Speaker 1: his mother, and then that's the journey of like it
Speaker 1: wasn't all my fault, but it's like it's more detailed
Speaker 1: than that. And I really liked that scene with Aquaman, mean,
Speaker 1: with will of Dafoe and he's saying like the opposite
Speaker 1: of what Orma is saying. He's like he's furious at
Speaker 1: the system that allowed that to happen to his mother,
Speaker 1: and I just feel like, yeah, it speaks to like
Speaker 1: how different their environments were and how different their upbringings were,
Speaker 1: where like Patrick Wilson was raised by a fascist and
Speaker 1: you know, Aquaman was raised by a very kind lighthouse keeper,
Speaker 1: and it makes a difference. Patrick Wilson is white, and
Speaker 1: because that's the other thing, Like, um, with Aquaman, there's
Speaker 1: never like a line or anything in the movie where
Speaker 1: you know, he'd be like, well, you think you're special.
Speaker 1: White people treat me like shit all the time on land.
Speaker 1: You guys aren't any different. Blah blah blah, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. And it's you know, there's never a
Speaker 1: line of dialogue like that. But for the biracial people
Speaker 1: in the room watching this, it's like, oh, yeah, of
Speaker 1: course he would think that way, you know. And of
Speaker 1: course Aquaman is going to be thinking, you know, oh,
Speaker 1: it's the fucking system. You know, it's Atlantis and these
Speaker 1: racist as white mermaids that killed my mom for loving
Speaker 1: a brown man like human. But the human in this
Speaker 1: specific example is indigenous. And the other guys like, no,
Speaker 1: it's you. So that's interesting, Like it's not subtle. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say that it was subtle. I think it's just
Speaker 1: apparent and just kind of treated like duh, if you
Speaker 1: get it, you get it. Yeah, the metaphor is is
Speaker 1: pretty clear. That's another thing. One more thing. Sorry, but like, um,
Speaker 1: It was interesting to me because as awesome as like
Speaker 1: Polynesian Mermaids would totally be, I like that the Atlanteans
Speaker 1: are white, I guess, and the humans are indigenous, like
Speaker 1: at least in this story, because it could have been
Speaker 1: so easy, like because I've seen this so many other
Speaker 1: times where it's flipped where it's like, oh, well, I'm
Speaker 1: the outcast and I'm the allusion and the allegory for racism,
Speaker 1: even though I'm Harry Potter and super white, or I'm
Speaker 1: Sabrina Spellman and I'm white and they're calling me half breed.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's like, no, you're not the allusion
Speaker 1: to racism. It's like the racism is present, but it's
Speaker 1: kind of taken the backseat to species. I guess I
Speaker 1: didn't connected that, but yeah, it's like that it's not
Speaker 1: the like one to one mothering narrative that we've seen
Speaker 1: a ton of times, and I think that gives it
Speaker 1: a level of sincerity too, as far as like the allegory,
Speaker 1: because it could have been, you know, takeaway Atlantis and everything.
Speaker 1: It could have been another story about racism and mixed
Speaker 1: ethnicity and all this other stuff. But you know, it's
Speaker 1: like Okay, so it's gonna be about this with the
Speaker 1: Mermaid politics, who just so happens to have a biracial
Speaker 1: Polynesian indigenous actor, And I'm like, okay, that's better a
Speaker 1: little bit more sincere, Yeah, I appreciate that. Um. Okay,
Speaker 1: So let's see. Mara has shown up and she's like, yeah, Aquaman,
Speaker 1: you gotta come be King, you gotta stop orm Um.
Speaker 1: And she also tells him about this sacred trident that
Speaker 1: had once belonged to King at Land that if he
Speaker 1: can find he can use it to dethrone arm and
Speaker 1: he's like, no, that trident's just a myth. Then orm
Speaker 1: causes this huge tidal wave that destroys this coastal town
Speaker 1: and nearly kills Aquaman's dad. It sends a lot of
Speaker 1: trash that had been dumped in the ocean back onto
Speaker 1: Land as sort of like a warning from orm. So
Speaker 1: this causes Aquaman to agree to accompany Mera and help
Speaker 1: her stop arm. So they go to Atlantis and meet
Speaker 1: up with Volco, who, by the way, we learned through
Speaker 1: flashbacks that throughout Arthur's childhood, Vocal has been training him
Speaker 1: basically how to be Aquaman, like be this magnificent fighter
Speaker 1: and teaching him how like you know, nice Jaffar, nice Jafar.
Speaker 1: You you can breathe underwater, you can see underwater, you
Speaker 1: can talk underwater, all this stuff. So he's been like
Speaker 1: training Aquaman his whole life. It is so fun to
Speaker 1: see scenes of Willem Dafoe being so nice, Like it's
Speaker 1: just like wow, where that like scene where they jump
Speaker 1: off the cliff and he's like, you was see something cool?
Speaker 1: Of like this vibe is unfamiliar to me. This is nice,
Speaker 1: so good. I love that scene. One of my favorite
Speaker 1: shots in the movie is when they're sitting on like
Speaker 1: the edge of like that cliff under the water and
Speaker 1: just watching all the mantas like swim by. Yeah. Like
Speaker 1: this movie is so gorgeous in theaters, Like just seeing
Speaker 1: it on a big screen was just a treat. Another thing.
Speaker 1: But what's his name? Volco? Yeah? Yeah, okay, So how
Speaker 1: do I tie this in? Let's um, So, once upon
Speaker 1: a time in the United States, it was illegal for
Speaker 1: Native Americans to practice our religion, our culture, you know,
Speaker 1: residential schools and just government policy like you could not
Speaker 1: be Native and if you did have anything as far
Speaker 1: as like a rattle a drum, sweet grass stage, you know,
Speaker 1: anything like that. If you were caught practicing and praying,
Speaker 1: you know, you could go to jail for it. You
Speaker 1: could be imprisoned for it. So this part of the movie,
Speaker 1: again it's subtle, but you know, when you're Native and
Speaker 1: you're watching it, you know, it's kind of clicks. It's
Speaker 1: like he's learning about his culture in secret because they
Speaker 1: don't want him to know about how to be Atlantean.
Speaker 1: It's like, you're a human and we don't want you
Speaker 1: here anyway. But it's like learning about that element of
Speaker 1: who you are when you're disconnected from it, and learning
Speaker 1: about the history and the customs and how to fight
Speaker 1: and how to use your abilities. I mean, in this movie,
Speaker 1: it's talking to fish and swimming and finding out who
Speaker 1: you are. But still it's like finding out this wonderful
Speaker 1: part of your family and your history and the culture
Speaker 1: that you belong to. And there's just a small observation.
Speaker 1: I just really I really like that totally layers this
Speaker 1: movie's I was like, let's we start talking to Ali.
Speaker 1: I'm going to be fully like this is the greatest
Speaker 1: movie ever made, you know what, much like the Ocean,
Speaker 1: this movie is deep it can be, and sometimes it's shallow, shallow,
Speaker 1: just like the ocean. Okay, so let's see so Volco.
Speaker 1: They meet up with Volco and then he has a
Speaker 1: clue about the final resting place of this sacred trident.
Speaker 1: But before they can do anything about it, Aquaman is
Speaker 1: captured and brought to Orm, who Aquaman then challenge is
Speaker 1: to a duel, and the terms are that if Aquaman wins,
Speaker 1: Orm will stop the war. If Orm wins, he's like, Aquaman,
Speaker 1: you're over. So I guess he's gonna kill I'm not
Speaker 1: sure exactly what fusing terms, which quickly becomes clear that
Speaker 1: they really should have hashed out what the terms were well,
Speaker 1: because because he's like, oh, you know, the war will
Speaker 1: be over, and he's like, but if I win, you're over,
Speaker 1: which is funny, so yeah, or this evil but sometimes
Speaker 1: he's such a petty little asshole that it's almost like
Speaker 1: it's the same like brain scratch that when you see
Speaker 1: a succession character acting out where you're like, you're being
Speaker 1: so silly right now. When he screams like I am
Speaker 1: ocean Master, You're like, okay, are you You're not giving
Speaker 1: me ocean master in that wig? I don't think so oh,
Speaker 1: I love it. Right Here we get another quick flashback
Speaker 1: where Vocal is training teenage Aquaman, and this is also
Speaker 1: when Vocal reveals that his mother had died long ago
Speaker 1: and that she was sacrificed by King or VA's, who
Speaker 1: had gotten very jealous when he found out that she
Speaker 1: had had another son with a human man. Okay, so
Speaker 1: I feel just because of that detail, you know, that
Speaker 1: he found out that she had a child with another person,
Speaker 1: and that was enough, not even another person, but like human,
Speaker 1: that was enough to execute her. And I mean, just
Speaker 1: judging from the fact that she fled this arranged marriage
Speaker 1: and spent years away, you know, out of the sea
Speaker 1: and with this person, and that they came after her,
Speaker 1: you know, um, I think it's kind of safe to
Speaker 1: assume that or may or may not have been conceived
Speaker 1: of rape. I think that's fair to assume that that
Speaker 1: is definitely yeah, or at least like coerced into. Like
Speaker 1: obviously she was forced to marry this person. But you know,
Speaker 1: Mira's being in this arranged marriage as well, but she's
Speaker 1: kind of you know, like, oh well whatever, you don't
Speaker 1: have to love someone to marry them. It's a political thing.
Speaker 1: But this very clearly was not the case with Atlanta,
Speaker 1: and uh, I'm glad that they just kind of leave
Speaker 1: that up in the air, you know where it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is possible. It doesn't need to be directly harped
Speaker 1: on addressed and yeah, but it's it. I mean, that
Speaker 1: is like unfortunately, yeah, very very conceivably true. And I
Speaker 1: thought it was, I mean, just another I mean, in
Speaker 1: this movie, it is interesting. Is written by two men,
Speaker 1: one of whom is a former cop, so you know, uh,
Speaker 1: former l ap D police detect of getting worse really amazing, cool,
Speaker 1: cool and great. So I don't want to like repeatedly,
Speaker 1: I'm like someone else in the room came up with
Speaker 1: this idea, because I you won't see me handing it
Speaker 1: to an l apt officer. But I did like with
Speaker 1: Atlanta and Mira, two characters who are in who are
Speaker 1: at different points in time, in virtually the same situation,
Speaker 1: but dealing with it differently, And that was again just
Speaker 1: more than I expected from a superhero movie with a
Speaker 1: gigantic budget. I feel like, if you have to with
Speaker 1: the you know, they're basically the same person, and you know,
Speaker 1: Aquaman is like, wow, Mommy's girlfriend now. Life is wild,
Speaker 1: you know. But but Mira and Atlanta, in spite of
Speaker 1: how similar their predicament was, they think of the situation
Speaker 1: and approach the situation very differently because they're different people.
Speaker 1: And I hate that. I didn't expect the movie to
Speaker 1: treat them as if they were different people, because I
Speaker 1: feel like we've seen Mommy's girlfriend now so many times.
Speaker 1: But I appreciated that at least they did that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think it's because, like Mara and Orm have
Speaker 1: this conversation, it's like very brief where she's like, do
Speaker 1: you think your mother would want to see her two
Speaker 1: children kill each other? And it sounds like they grew
Speaker 1: up together, like she must have known Atlanta when she
Speaker 1: was younger, and she must have known Orm when she
Speaker 1: was younger, And that's probably why she's a little bit
Speaker 1: more chill about like, Okay, if I got to marry
Speaker 1: my best friend, whatever, but you're wrong to marry this
Speaker 1: fucking dork from school who at least she is it her. Okay,
Speaker 1: So this big battle between Aquaman and Orm is about
Speaker 1: to happen in like the Ring of Fire or whatever thing.
Speaker 1: It's so big. It's this fight is so large So
Speaker 1: they have this battle where kind of neither of them
Speaker 1: end up winning because Orm is sort of incapacitated in
Speaker 1: some way. And I think it's because of me to
Speaker 1: understand that Mara uses her like water manipulation powers to
Speaker 1: sort of like whatever, fuck him up a little bit,
Speaker 1: and then it allows her and Aquaman to escape. Is
Speaker 1: that what happens? Something like that? It's all I remember
Speaker 1: was just the scoreboard where it's like, look at how
Speaker 1: awesome Orm is and then look at the stupid drunk
Speaker 1: native man who wants to fight him. Right, So I
Speaker 1: feel like Mara is like we can talk about this
Speaker 1: later too, But I feel like Mara is playing her
Speaker 1: cards really well, where she's like effectively convincing Orm that
Speaker 1: she's like his ally and yeah, like this freaking Aquaman
Speaker 1: guy is such an imbecile or something like that. And
Speaker 1: then she's really just like doing this to get away
Speaker 1: from Orm because she realizes like what a scary tyrant
Speaker 1: he is. Yeah, anyway, so this fight happens, Mara and
Speaker 1: Aquaman escape, and then they head to the Sahara Desert
Speaker 1: to follow this clue that will lead them to the
Speaker 1: Lost Trident. As they enter the Sahara it just blasts
Speaker 1: the worst cover of Total's Africa ever by people, and
Speaker 1: it comes out of pitou is saying, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I like blacked that out already somehow, that there's a
Speaker 1: pit Bull song in this movie. It comes out of nowhere.
Speaker 1: Because overall, like the soundtrack of the movie is pretty cool.
Speaker 1: It kind of sounds like Tron Legacy or something. You know,
Speaker 1: it's pitful, except for the end credits song where there's
Speaker 1: a song where it's just like everything happens movies. I
Speaker 1: also like that there. Yeah, this whole section of the movie.
Speaker 1: I was like, this is like the not obviously the
Speaker 1: same because they were all over the world, but I
Speaker 1: was like, this is like the National Treasure section of
Speaker 1: the movie where they're like collecting different things and they're like,
Speaker 1: we need this, we need this, and that leads to
Speaker 1: another clue, and that clue at least doing another clue. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the scene where Jason Momoa is like and this statue
Speaker 1: means this, this statue means that. I was like, whoa,
Speaker 1: he's doing the He's doing the Benjamin Franklin cage thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: It's amazing how Aquaman becomes National Treasurer for like thirty
Speaker 1: minutes as I was like, all right, sure. So they
Speaker 1: go to the Sahara Desert. They find this like secret
Speaker 1: stand chamber where they're able to play King Atlant's ancient message,
Speaker 1: which then leads them to Italy. I think they're in
Speaker 1: Italy somewhere that region, because there's like a Pinocchio joke
Speaker 1: that is planted and paid off when they go to Italy.
Speaker 1: For some reason, You're like, what's happening? Hilarious. I really
Speaker 1: like that scene though in Sicily, just because earlier when
Speaker 1: she takes Aquaman to Atlantis for the first time, and
Speaker 1: I think I read in an interview where James wa
Speaker 1: was talking about this how he wanted the audience to
Speaker 1: like experience Atlantis the way Arthur does, you know, for
Speaker 1: the very first time, and just the wonder and the
Speaker 1: amazement of it when he's flying through and he's seeing
Speaker 1: this metropolis under the ocean and all of this amazing,
Speaker 1: beautiful things, you know, So that scene is amazing. And
Speaker 1: then when he and Mirror are walking around the desert
Speaker 1: and she's talking about people destroy our oceans, you don't
Speaker 1: bow your garbage into our seas and blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: and this is the worst place ever, and he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but we've got you know, big mountains and beautiful forests
Speaker 1: and big lakes. You know, I mean, like we've got
Speaker 1: some stupid people running the place, but you know, like
Speaker 1: the land is beautiful too, And she doesn't really like
Speaker 1: pay that any attention until she's in Sicily and then
Speaker 1: we see her, you know, experiencing Sicily for the first
Speaker 1: time and seeing all the flowers and the fruits and
Speaker 1: the people and that little girl at the fountain, and
Speaker 1: she's just it was so good, unless she starts eating
Speaker 1: roses and then she's like yum yum, Like this is strange.
Speaker 1: It was good. I like that, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: The movie has scenes that works so so well, and
Speaker 1: it almost feels like a different movie because it's like
Speaker 1: when it's excellent, it's excellent, and then when it's really
Speaker 1: really clumsy, it's it's very clumsy all over the place. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so they're they're following this next clue, but then Black
Speaker 1: Manta shows up, who has been absent for a while,
Speaker 1: who has been absent for a while, but who has
Speaker 1: also established this alliance with Orm, and so Orm is
Speaker 1: like kind of making Manta do some of his bidding
Speaker 1: and trying to get him to kill Aquaman Um. So
Speaker 1: he shows up and attacks Aquaman and Mara. There's a
Speaker 1: big fight sequence there. They eventually get away and head
Speaker 1: towards the location of the trident, which is in this
Speaker 1: kind of like underwater oasis cave place where surprise, guess
Speaker 1: who's there, Queen Atlanta. He's going to cry again very soon.
Speaker 1: I did not see that coming. I did not see
Speaker 1: a coming. I thought, yeah, yeah, the audience and Aquaman
Speaker 1: has everyone basically, everyone has been led to believe that
Speaker 1: she died because she was sacrificed to the trenches, but
Speaker 1: she managed to survive, and she's been like hiding and
Speaker 1: living in you know, seclusion this whole time. So she
Speaker 1: and Aquaman reunite. They have a nice tender moment, and
Speaker 1: then Aquaman goes and gets the trident, which he's able
Speaker 1: to do because he is the one true king. He
Speaker 1: gives this whole kind of speech about how he's he
Speaker 1: didn't come here because he thinks he's worthy. He's he
Speaker 1: came here because like this is the only choice he
Speaker 1: has to like save humanity basically, because he's also talking
Speaker 1: to this giant fish creature who sounds like flotsam and
Speaker 1: jetsam from The Little Mermaid whatever that was. I loved
Speaker 1: that big scary fish. I was like, I watched that
Speaker 1: scene twice because I was like, Oh, it's just this
Speaker 1: this mean fish and that has like a really hard grip,
Speaker 1: like and he was like, You're never gonna get this
Speaker 1: trident from me. And then Aquaman is like, well if
Speaker 1: I did, and he's like, oh, you can hear me.
Speaker 1: And Aquaman is like yes, and he's like all right,
Speaker 1: see if you can get it, and just like totally
Speaker 1: neutralized threat in the space of like one kind of cute.
Speaker 1: Jason Momoa's performance in that scene also was like I
Speaker 1: just I just Jason Momo is so fun Like his
Speaker 1: delivery in that scene where I don't know if maybe
Speaker 1: maybe it was a choice, maybe he just like there
Speaker 1: was scratch audio and he wasn't hearing the voice he
Speaker 1: was responding to, but the scary flots of jets and fishes, Wait,
Speaker 1: you can hear me, and yes, I can hear you,
Speaker 1: and I can understand you. And it was just like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's just so funny. I loved that scene. There are
Speaker 1: two wonderful lines in the scene it's when Arthur's talking
Speaker 1: to uh, his mom. He's saying, you know, he still
Speaker 1: walks at the end of the dock every morning waiting
Speaker 1: for you, which you know, ugly cry. But then um,
Speaker 1: she says something. She's like, you need to be more
Speaker 1: than just a king or whatever. And he's like, what
Speaker 1: could be greater than a king? And she says a hero?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you know, that was the point where
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is the indigenous representation that I really
Speaker 1: just want for like little kids, you know what i mean, like,
Speaker 1: you know, just a hero. You know, like I wonder
Speaker 1: if that is how like because I used to work
Speaker 1: at a gym for a little bit and you know,
Speaker 1: would work with little kids, so one of the bonding
Speaker 1: experiences between me and these kids would be superhero movies.
Speaker 1: And just how much my black students loved Black Panther
Speaker 1: so much, you know, like that was their hero. And
Speaker 1: it's like Aquaman. When she said that line, I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is what more than ever, I feel like the
Speaker 1: little kids in the audience, you know, the little biracial kids,
Speaker 1: the Native kids, the Hawaiian kids, you know, like they
Speaker 1: don't need a king, they need a hero. And they
Speaker 1: need someone who's gonna do these incredible things and who
Speaker 1: look like them and are special and are you know, extraordinary.
Speaker 1: And then when he's talking to the scary Cathulhu Monster
Speaker 1: and she's telling them, you know you're not worthy and
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, what makes you think that you're worthy?
Speaker 1: And he just straight up tells her He's like, I came.
Speaker 1: Let me read it, says I came to save my
Speaker 1: home and the people that I love, the Trident is
Speaker 1: their only hope. If that's not good enough, often, screw you.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I love our King, Batman, who Batman? Who?
Speaker 1: Wonder Woman? Who? Right? Which is like, again, such an
Speaker 1: interesting deviation from so many superhero movies or so many
Speaker 1: like I guess um like chosen one narratives where it's
Speaker 1: like you have to prove your worth and you have
Speaker 1: to like do the thing that proves like but in
Speaker 1: a way that feels different from because he proves his
Speaker 1: worth by like acknowledging that He's like, no, I'm not
Speaker 1: any more worthy than anybody else. I'm just here in
Speaker 1: this time of need, and I'm like I need to
Speaker 1: take action against this TYRNT and like that's you know,
Speaker 1: if that makes me worthy, then so be it, and
Speaker 1: that is what ends up happening. But like I feel
Speaker 1: like so many other chosen one narratives or I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's just I really liked that about this where it's
Speaker 1: just like he's like, no, I like, I'm not special.
Speaker 1: I just like am here to help. And then it's
Speaker 1: like cool, that makes you worthy. Hell yeah, but that
Speaker 1: means you are special, like special. I was like, Jason,
Speaker 1: don't be so humbul you obviously are going to get
Speaker 1: the trident that it is. The other thing is like legit.
Speaker 1: He he like saying, you know, like I know I'm
Speaker 1: not worthy. I know I probably can't be king. I
Speaker 1: know I'm probably not the best choice. I'm like, motherfucker,
Speaker 1: You're fighting with Superman and Batman and Wonder Woman in
Speaker 1: the previous movie, and you haven't mentioned that once, Like bro,
Speaker 1: I would have thrown that in warm space. You're welcome,
Speaker 1: Mr Humble. I always forget that because I just yea,
Speaker 1: I don't have the correct brain for it. I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: he knows Batman, Superman, Yeah, those are his past. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't see Justice League, not the theatrical cut, nor
Speaker 1: the Snyder cut, So I always forget that. So Aquaman
Speaker 1: has already been introduced as a character into this cinematic
Speaker 1: universe a year prior to this, I believe, because Justice
Speaker 1: League was released theatrically in twenty seventeen, So he's already
Speaker 1: existed in this universe as this character fighting alongside Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think chronologically that all happens before the events
Speaker 1: of this teen Aquaman movie takes place too. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: already done all this like superhero ship and then now
Speaker 1: he's like saving the world on his own. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I always forget that because I skipped Justice Leave. It's
Speaker 1: I'm sure that they sort of want you to forget that.
Speaker 1: They don't want you to like hyper fixated on all
Speaker 1: the cool ship because it kind of undercuts the story.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I don't know the script did make
Speaker 1: me forget. I just sort of assumed. I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I guess he just hasn't met them yet, because like
Speaker 1: you're saying, Ali, I'm like, I wouldn't shut up about it,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, I was like, listen, orm you wouldn't have
Speaker 1: an ocean if I hadn't saved the planet from Steppin Wolf.
Speaker 1: So you're welcome Ocean Master. Yeah, Mr Ocean Master, how
Speaker 1: do you like that? That Ocean Master line read really
Speaker 1: killed me? It's like, God, how do you say that
Speaker 1: with a straight face? Very funny? Wild? Okay, So there's
Speaker 1: just a little bit of the story left. Uh, so
Speaker 1: you know Aquaman getting the trident. Meanwhile, orm is launching
Speaker 1: an attack against some of the other sea kingdoms because
Speaker 1: I think he's trying to like gain control over them
Speaker 1: so that he can launch this attack against the surface.
Speaker 1: That whole thing. I was like totally understand what he's
Speaker 1: trying to do. But then Aquaman shows up with the
Speaker 1: trident to stop arm. There's another big battle. Aquaman and
Speaker 1: may kiss at some point, um because she does have
Speaker 1: to be his girlfriend. Not only like it comes out
Speaker 1: of nowhere, but it's like, you know, it's Jason Momoa
Speaker 1: and she could die in the next scene, so fucking
Speaker 1: get him. But also I wonder if that's what kissing
Speaker 1: Jason Momoa is like, where you just like the chaos
Speaker 1: just kind of stops that there's like explosions and it's
Speaker 1: just time stops. I mean, like sucking Lisa Bone, I
Speaker 1: know it's like that every day. Could she come out
Speaker 1: and confirm. Is that what it's like the kiss Aquaman? Yeah,
Speaker 1: please let us know, Lisa. I also had that thought
Speaker 1: that I was like, oh, if I kissed Jason Mamoa,
Speaker 1: I probably would also feel like a whale just took
Speaker 1: me away to some a second location afterwards, because a
Speaker 1: whale just shows up and she's like, I gotta go,
Speaker 1: and like later, I hope that that is the Jason
Speaker 1: Mamma experience, that that a free Willie shows up and
Speaker 1: it just takes you where you need to go. Afterwards,
Speaker 1: so they're having the big battle, Aquaman eventually wins against Orm.
Speaker 1: Atlanta shows up and she's like my two sons, and
Speaker 1: then Aquaman shows Orm mercy. Orm is taken away as prisoner,
Speaker 1: and then the people of Atlantis accept Aquaman as their
Speaker 1: king a k a. King Arthur, which is also funny
Speaker 1: it it makes you think. And then the movie ends
Speaker 1: with Aquaman's mother and father reuniting on the dock and
Speaker 1: having a beautiful kiss, and then we get some voice
Speaker 1: over from Aquaman saying that their love that probably never
Speaker 1: should have had, like you know, it wasn't supposed to happen, Uh,
Speaker 1: it did happen and end up saving the world the end,
Speaker 1: you cry, cry, cry, cry, cry, Cry cries so much.
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and then we will come
Speaker 1: right back to cry and discuss, and we're back where
Speaker 1: would we like to begin? I mean, there's not a
Speaker 1: ton ton ton of um. There are a few context
Speaker 1: things that we should touch on before jumping back into
Speaker 1: the story maybe, but the things that stuck out to
Speaker 1: me was I did I was like God. The screenplay
Speaker 1: ultimately was co written by a top uh so will
Speaker 1: be what the fuck um co written with David Leslie
Speaker 1: Johnson McGoldrick, which is a lot of names in a row.
Speaker 1: We've also got a story by credit from Jeff john Yeah,
Speaker 1: question Mark. Oh, I just I mean, most of this
Speaker 1: crew seems to be like with the kind of the
Speaker 1: outlier of Will bel I don't really know why why
Speaker 1: he's here, and I kind of wish he wasn't. But um,
Speaker 1: it seems like James One was allowed to kind of
Speaker 1: bring his like team of people he usually collaborates with
Speaker 1: to this movie, which is cool because it looks like
Speaker 1: a James One movie and not like they just threw
Speaker 1: all these DC who house people at him and he
Speaker 1: didn't get to make the movie. He wanted that said
Speaker 1: a lot of men, really male, heavy production, like top
Speaker 1: level production stuff. Is all all guys, And are they
Speaker 1: I know James one isn't white, but are the other writers?
Speaker 1: Are they people of color? Are they? Uh? Let me
Speaker 1: double check, but I do not believe. So, yeah, James
Speaker 1: Won is Chinese Australian. Will Beal is a white cop. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was doing it. I was doing a quick Google
Speaker 1: of everyone, and it is it is mostly white guys
Speaker 1: at the top of this project. That's a little I
Speaker 1: don't know, that's a little surprising, especially with all the
Speaker 1: nuance that this film kind of has with the racism.
Speaker 1: I know that like just tangentially that like these movies
Speaker 1: are like there's writer's rooms that take place around these movies,
Speaker 1: and those writers don't get credited. So I'm assuming, I
Speaker 1: just I'm assuming that whatever goes right in this movie,
Speaker 1: a white cop didn't write like he wrote all the
Speaker 1: Nazi ship probably but yeah, yeah, he's like, oh orm,
Speaker 1: I'll take orm. I got it. Like, but yeah, I
Speaker 1: just want to igno and and and then also just
Speaker 1: um for the five times this episode shout out James
Speaker 1: Won because you gotta love him. He's and if you
Speaker 1: and if you haven't really gone into the want of
Speaker 1: verse he made. I never get like at another certain
Speaker 1: people you think of and you're like, I'm so upset
Speaker 1: at you for being so smart, so young and so like.
Speaker 1: He made the Saw movie, the first Saw movie, when
Speaker 1: he was like twenty five or something. It's ridiculous he
Speaker 1: did so he did the conjuring he did in City
Speaker 1: as he did like he did, he just did Malignant.
Speaker 1: He's like forty three. I was like this man, and
Speaker 1: he seems like such a sweetie pie. James. I wonder,
Speaker 1: I wonder if super Yockey has made James Wan Sure,
Speaker 1: I would like one. I think. Another important piece of
Speaker 1: context for this movie is that canonically early I guess,
Speaker 1: at least as far as like comic book character Aquaman
Speaker 1: was created as a white character. And then when Zack
Speaker 1: Snyder whoever was in charge of casting Jason Momoa as
Speaker 1: Aquaman in Justice League, basically was just like, this doesn't
Speaker 1: need to be the white character that we saw in
Speaker 1: the comic books. We can just kind of cast whoever
Speaker 1: they cast. Jason Momoa, who is native Hawaiian and to
Speaker 1: some extent Native American. On I believe his mother's side,
Speaker 1: but he I think doesn't necessarily claim as much heritage there,
Speaker 1: so he um just give that some clarity. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Jason Momoa is a bit of a problematic faith just
Speaker 1: because he has played Native American characters in the past.
Speaker 1: He was in a movie, uh called Rhoda Paloma I
Speaker 1: think is how you say it, where he played a
Speaker 1: Native character. He was on a show called The Red
Speaker 1: Road where he plays a Native character. And he was
Speaker 1: on Frontier where he plays a Native character. And again,
Speaker 1: you know, and distinction there is, you know, like Hawaiians
Speaker 1: are not Native American and Native Americans are not Hawaiian
Speaker 1: because it's you know, different different histories, different cultures. So
Speaker 1: in an interview for The Red Road on Sundance TV,
Speaker 1: the lady interviewing him asked him if he has any
Speaker 1: Native heritage, and he says, you know, my grandmother she
Speaker 1: has a little bit of pawny, but I wouldn't say
Speaker 1: that I have enough. And I think that that's an
Speaker 1: important distinction, kind of problematic phrasing, you know, in a way,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't really want to talk about blood
Speaker 1: quantum and go into that, Kara, but you know the
Speaker 1: fact that he does acknowledge, Like, you know, I'm a
Speaker 1: little bit uncomfortable claiming to be Pawny, even if Grandma
Speaker 1: might have been. I am Hawaiian, So I'm glad that
Speaker 1: you know, at least with Aquaman, it's like, yes, this
Speaker 1: is Hawaiian, this is Polynesian, but it's also in Agenois
Speaker 1: and American, and you know, like he can really I
Speaker 1: don't know, I feel like this creation was very much
Speaker 1: part of Jason Momoa's influence, and uh, it feels more
Speaker 1: sincere that way, because it's like, dude, stop sucking playing
Speaker 1: native characters. Let a native person play the character. I
Speaker 1: honestly wasn't aware of the full, like the full context
Speaker 1: of his history there. Thank you for for letting us know. Uh,
Speaker 1: we started to touch on this, and Alie, you were
Speaker 1: speaking to this already, but I'm interested to hear you
Speaker 1: speak more about kind of your connection with this movie,
Speaker 1: especially in terms of like it's indigenous representation. It's an
Speaker 1: indigenous superhero that there aren't really any other examples of
Speaker 1: that by racial representation. I mean, yeah, yeah, if you
Speaker 1: want to speak to that anymore. Well, it was interesting
Speaker 1: when I did my research and so many people, you know,
Speaker 1: like wrote these articles about Aquaman being like the first
Speaker 1: actual big biracial superhero and like I even was like
Speaker 1: trying to you know, I'm like, is that correct? You know,
Speaker 1: like I'm going back, and the only one I can
Speaker 1: really think of was Brandon Lee and The Crow because
Speaker 1: he's Chinese and white. But little kids were not watching
Speaker 1: the Crow, you know, like the same audience watching the
Speaker 1: Crow was not, you know, like it's not as accessible
Speaker 1: as Aquaman was. So in the same way that Blade
Speaker 1: and Black Panther are different, Like people try to say
Speaker 1: that Black Panther isn't the first black superhero. That was Blade,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, but children were not the target
Speaker 1: audience for Blade. They have it that was like R
Speaker 1: rated right, it was like it's very gory and graphic,
Speaker 1: and Blade wasn't presented as like look at this role
Speaker 1: model for children, like no, no, yeah. And even Jason Momoa,
Speaker 1: like in an interview, so he said, is honestly to
Speaker 1: be the first mixed race Superheroen is like, really, is
Speaker 1: is there not one? He's like, that's a huge honor.
Speaker 1: And to play it so close to who I am
Speaker 1: and all of his imperfections, I get to play it
Speaker 1: in a way where you can really slip between those
Speaker 1: two worlds. And I'm excited for the world to see it,
Speaker 1: he says, I haven't seen Aquaman yet because I'll be
Speaker 1: able to see something with my kids for the first time,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to be really emotional and affected and
Speaker 1: to hold their hands. It's going to be a really
Speaker 1: cool moment to be a dad with a ten year
Speaker 1: old and eleven year old. It's pretty special. And yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, like that's what I think too. Like again,
Speaker 1: you know, I used to work with kids at the
Speaker 1: gym and stuff, and there was this one specific little boy,
Speaker 1: you know, and he's black. I don't know if he
Speaker 1: was by racial. I think both of his parents are black,
Speaker 1: but he had these beautiful like amber colored sort of
Speaker 1: their brown eyes, but they kind of had like yellow
Speaker 1: in them a little bit. And he would like, oh,
Speaker 1: I have eyes like Aquaman. You know what I look like.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. It's like I love that,
Speaker 1: you know, like this kid who clearly is like, even
Speaker 1: if Aquaman isn't black, there's something you know, it's a
Speaker 1: brown superhero. It's by racial superhero. It some elements of
Speaker 1: him look like him. And it's like, you know, that's
Speaker 1: what I want for these kids, you know, especially indigenous kids,
Speaker 1: you know, who really might not have a role model
Speaker 1: like Superman or Batman or something to that extent. You know,
Speaker 1: like seeing yourself on screen is is very important, especially
Speaker 1: like when I think about representation for me. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a million actresses out there who look like me.
Speaker 1: There's a million characters who look like me, but I
Speaker 1: don't feel like they are me. But then when I
Speaker 1: see Native actresses, you know, in shows like Reservation Dogs
Speaker 1: or you know, anything else, really I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: feel like that's representing me either, because I'm so white
Speaker 1: passing and biracial and not really connected to the culture.
Speaker 1: And I think that's why I gravitated so much towards
Speaker 1: Frozen two when it came out, because it was you know,
Speaker 1: an aquaman too in this extent, especially with the dad
Speaker 1: and you know, the parents looking so much like mine
Speaker 1: and all the other stuff. I hope that answered your question.
Speaker 1: I kind of went out, that's like, that's so, that's
Speaker 1: so lovely to hear, Like, yeah, this movie, I mean this,
Speaker 1: And again it's like this movie is it's so interesting
Speaker 1: to me because this movie wasn't marketed in that way
Speaker 1: at all, Like it was just like, here's the Aquaman movie.
Speaker 1: And then like I just and and maybe I just
Speaker 1: wasn't engaging with I feel like I'm my my feed
Speaker 1: does not superheroes don't come up in my feet a lot.
Speaker 1: Uh So maybe I missed this course, but I didn't
Speaker 1: hear much about it either. I mean it was like
Speaker 1: I was very pleasantly surprised that and it's and it
Speaker 1: just fits into the story so seamlessly. Yeah. Another thing
Speaker 1: I think is really interesting about the narrative is that
Speaker 1: Aquaman the character being mixed being by racial even though
Speaker 1: it's never explicitly stated in the movie like he's half
Speaker 1: Atlantean and half specifically indigenous human, it's always just like
Speaker 1: he's half human and half Atlantean. Like we've mentioned, there's
Speaker 1: like a clear allegory that can still be drawn because
Speaker 1: he you know, he still has indigenous roots. And then
Speaker 1: you can see this allegory of like, yes, he's half
Speaker 1: white because Nicole Kodman is a white woman and half indigenous.
Speaker 1: So even though there's like not an explicit discussion happening
Speaker 1: about that in the movie, really there's like this you know,
Speaker 1: clear allegory that's being presented. Even so, in the movie,
Speaker 1: him being mixed is a thing that gets commented on
Speaker 1: quite a bit, both by his like enemies who see
Speaker 1: him being mixed as like a travesty. You know, he's
Speaker 1: called whatever clearly like slurs by Patrick Wilson's character, by
Speaker 1: King Orm versus other you know, his allies are constantly
Speaker 1: reinforcing this. You know, you're the bridge between these two worlds.
Speaker 1: We need you, and this is part of what makes
Speaker 1: you worthy because you have these two experiences, you have
Speaker 1: backgrounds from both of these worlds, both of these people
Speaker 1: that can unite us because there you know, there's Nicole
Speaker 1: Kidman shows up at the end and she's like, there
Speaker 1: aren't two worlds. Actually it's not. You know, the surface
Speaker 1: people and the underwater people were all from the same planet.
Speaker 1: We are one. And again, like the voiceover, the voiceover
Speaker 1: in the end is you know Aquaman saying, you know,
Speaker 1: my father was a lighthousekeeper, my mother was a queen.
Speaker 1: They never were meant to meet, but their love saved
Speaker 1: the world. They made me what I am. A son
Speaker 1: of the land, a king of the seas. And it's
Speaker 1: like this celebration of his like kind of bicultural identity
Speaker 1: is what saves the world. Let me comment on that one. Ah,
Speaker 1: the end of the movie kills me. Yeah, okay, so
Speaker 1: um when he says that, I know, he's like, you know,
Speaker 1: speaking in terms of like Atlantis and people, you know,
Speaker 1: but so saying, you know, like they were never supposed
Speaker 1: to meet, but their love saved the world. It's like
Speaker 1: that got to me, you know, like for a number
Speaker 1: of reasons. Um, you know, all things considered, my parents
Speaker 1: were never supposed to be you know, m and uh,
Speaker 1: my dad's parents certainly were never supposed to me. You know.
Speaker 1: It's like with residential schools and colonialism and all these
Speaker 1: terrible things that have happened, you know in the United
Speaker 1: States and Canada. It's like Grandma was never supposed to
Speaker 1: be alive, you know, It's like Dad was never supposed
Speaker 1: to be alive. You know, like technically none of us
Speaker 1: are supposed to be here. And you know, like when
Speaker 1: you put it in that perspective, what do you think
Speaker 1: that you know, against all odds, like we're here, and
Speaker 1: we're here because grandpa loved a Native woman and they
Speaker 1: had children and then my dad met my mom. You know,
Speaker 1: like how easily. Could Grandma have been sterilized at those
Speaker 1: schools or could have died at those schools, Like we're
Speaker 1: still finding you know, all of these bodies of these
Speaker 1: two oldren you know, that are buried at different residential
Speaker 1: schools and stuff, and it's like that could have been
Speaker 1: any of them, you know, that could have been Auntie,
Speaker 1: that could have been Grandma. You know, like the state
Speaker 1: could have taken Dad away from her, you know. And
Speaker 1: it's like so many things could have happened where they
Speaker 1: were never supposed to meet, and they did. And uh,
Speaker 1: even then, like once upon a time, like interracial marriages
Speaker 1: were illegal into like the seventies, you know, like they
Speaker 1: could have went to jail for being married, you know,
Speaker 1: or you know, having interracial children. So it's uh, you know,
Speaker 1: against all odds finding each other in this life. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's kind of beautiful, and I'm happy that the movie
Speaker 1: ended on a happy note. I'm glad that Aquaman's mom
Speaker 1: didn't get fucking fridged like usually, you know, so the
Speaker 1: end where you know these the end where she's there
Speaker 1: and he finds her again. It's like when you're sitting
Speaker 1: in the theater with mom and you know that that's
Speaker 1: not what's gonna end because she's sick, it was still
Speaker 1: kind of healing, and it's like, you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: really religious or anything, but it's like, at the end
Speaker 1: of all things, I kind of hope that that's where
Speaker 1: we find her someday. You know, I'm so happy I'm
Speaker 1: not the only person on the planet who fucking cries
Speaker 1: over Aquaman because like the other articles that I've read
Speaker 1: where people said that they got very emotional toops m
Speaker 1: h ah. I don't know if this movie meant to
Speaker 1: go so deep, but I interpreted it deeply. So that's
Speaker 1: the beautiful thing about art and stories and movies is
Speaker 1: that they can be interpreted any which way they can be.
Speaker 1: You know, the experience that you're any viewer bringing into
Speaker 1: the viewing experience will kind of inform I think it's
Speaker 1: really beautiful that James One Superhero Aquaman movie is something
Speaker 1: that's so like profoundly important and like impactful and effective
Speaker 1: to you. I'm so glad and I'm so glad you
Speaker 1: have that that memory with your mom too. That's really beautiful. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's really great. Yeah me too. It was good good
Speaker 1: last movie and uh a happier memory was when we
Speaker 1: were watching it is at the beginning of the movie
Speaker 1: when he breaks into the submarine, because Mom she she
Speaker 1: would watch all of the m c U with us
Speaker 1: all the time, and her favorite was Thor, like she
Speaker 1: loved Thor. And then when Aquaman broke into the submarine
Speaker 1: and it's just beating everyone's ass, She's like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: I don't know if who I like more? Now do
Speaker 1: I like Thor more? Do I like Aquaman more? And
Speaker 1: then they dude hit him and he like did that
Speaker 1: little head tilt before he kicked his ass? And we're
Speaker 1: both like, yeah, Aquaman, sorry, Chris. My mom had a
Speaker 1: type long haired muscly men man. It was also a
Speaker 1: teddy bear right funny, another lovely memory. Man, We're going
Speaker 1: we're going deep on Aquaman. I'm so happy it's good.
Speaker 1: It's good movie. I like it even if it kills me.
Speaker 1: It's a good movie. And it made I wanted to
Speaker 1: just shout out how again. I mean, I feel like
Speaker 1: at this point, for the majority of people have a
Speaker 1: commonly accepted truth. But like, this movie made a shipload
Speaker 1: of money. This movie made over a billion dollars. Yeah, globally,
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, Like I didn't. I guess I didn't
Speaker 1: remember how wildly successful this movie was. Um, because I
Speaker 1: just don't pay attention to the dc you because I
Speaker 1: assume it's boring. But then I'm like, well, if it's
Speaker 1: James Want, it's not going to be boring. And if
Speaker 1: they had billion dollars, I know, the d C EU
Speaker 1: just hasn't been like none of them are really any good.
Speaker 1: I would say, like they only had like three really
Speaker 1: really good ones, and that would be this one, Aquaman,
Speaker 1: Wonder Woman, and Birds of Prey. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: those are the ones. Yeah, those are really because the
Speaker 1: Superman ones haven't really been that good, the Batman ones
Speaker 1: really haven't been good. Wonder Woman is awful, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: what a third really, And I mean not for nothing
Speaker 1: that the three good d c EU movies were directed
Speaker 1: by women and people of colored not a white guy
Speaker 1: to be seen Wonder Moons. Yeah, but yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's huge box office success, which, by the way, it's
Speaker 1: as of this recording, it's the twentie highest grossing film
Speaker 1: of all time, but hilariously only the fifth highest grossing film,
Speaker 1: of which means there were four other movies in the
Speaker 1: gross more, which was like an Offers movie. Black Panther
Speaker 1: incredible too, and I'm forgetting the other one, Durrassic World
Speaker 1: whatever Durassic World came out. Oh my god, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess that's that's so wild And all the while we
Speaker 1: couldn't get a better wig for Mera with a billion dollars.
Speaker 1: Then she looks so much like Aerial from Disney's Little Mermaid.
Speaker 1: That distracting. I did, Um, obviously, I mean maybe this
Speaker 1: is the part where we can like kind of say it,
Speaker 1: like as we talk about Mira. Yeah, so like there
Speaker 1: is definitely obviously a conversation to be had about domestic
Speaker 1: violence and abuse, and it's not something that should be
Speaker 1: ignored or overlooked. Of course, Um, several places have already
Speaker 1: discussed this, and you know as far as Amber heard, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: as far as Amber heard, and everything that's surrounding that,
Speaker 1: the controversy. Um, so that's why we really just wanted
Speaker 1: to focus more on the indigenous aspect of the film,
Speaker 1: because there is a lot to be said without really
Speaker 1: even mentioning her. Right, but now that we are going
Speaker 1: to mention her, you know, not to give not to like, um,
Speaker 1: it's not framing her in a positive light, so to
Speaker 1: say more like the character just kind of separating the two.
Speaker 1: We want to acknowledge that we are well aware that
Speaker 1: this is I mean an ongoing case and well, I mean, well,
Speaker 1: let's let's link to some resources to that effect in
Speaker 1: the notes of the show. So if you're if you're
Speaker 1: not aware of the situation, we're not going to get
Speaker 1: into it here because we would be here for hours
Speaker 1: and it would it would take away from what we
Speaker 1: do want to discuss about this movie. But we are
Speaker 1: aware of the ongoing case with Amber Heard and Johnny Depp.
Speaker 1: Domestic violence is always something that we want to never
Speaker 1: ever erase in the scope of our show. UM. But yeah,
Speaker 1: so we just wanted to acknowledge it that that is
Speaker 1: something that's ongoing at the time of this recording. Um,
Speaker 1: in terms of like the the case is still going.
Speaker 1: And I believe the Amber Heard is not coming back
Speaker 1: for the second Aquaman movie. I think she is. I
Speaker 1: think they are filming because yeah, well there was a
Speaker 1: lot of controversy around her casting in the second movie
Speaker 1: because they wanted to recast her, and people wanted to
Speaker 1: boycott Aquaman two because of that, and it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: I know this is an unpopular opinion. I mean, whether
Speaker 1: she's an Aquaman two or not, I'm still going to
Speaker 1: see it because he is the only indigenous, bi racial
Speaker 1: superhero like period, and like, why let her ruin that,
Speaker 1: you know, like, for lack of better terms, I mean,
Speaker 1: why take it away? You know, according to MDB, she
Speaker 1: does appear to be in this sequel that she about
Speaker 1: a year from now in December. So okay, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: we want to make sure that we acknowledge that. And
Speaker 1: you know it would have felt weird too not addressing address. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but we'd rather focus on other aspects of the film.
Speaker 1: We're focusing on the story here. We'll we'll leave a
Speaker 1: link in the description of this episode, right, but you know,
Speaker 1: just separating Mira from the actress um the character herself,
Speaker 1: I mean, is strangely pretty capable. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: I tend to agree, yeah, to an extent. I like
Speaker 1: that her motivation really isn't you know, Oh, I'm in
Speaker 1: love with Arthur. You know, it's like, no, my soon
Speaker 1: to be husband is a fucking lunatic and yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: we have to save the world and I have to
Speaker 1: like kind of teach this guy how to save the world.
Speaker 1: She's kind of the impetus that gets Aquaman even involved
Speaker 1: in the plot of the movie, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 1: I was all over the place with her, honestly, Like,
Speaker 1: there are certain scenes where I was like, because I
Speaker 1: totally agree with like she is the one that brings
Speaker 1: him into the action, but she's like, I think, unless
Speaker 1: I missed something, the first time she participates in the
Speaker 1: action of the movie, like she fights is an hour
Speaker 1: and a half into the movie, and the movie is
Speaker 1: two and a half hours long, to be fair, So
Speaker 1: she is involved in the act. Once she is involved
Speaker 1: in the action of the movie, she remains involved in
Speaker 1: the action and she's in the rest of the battles.
Speaker 1: But it it took a while for her to like
Speaker 1: become and there there was a and maybe I'm being
Speaker 1: like overly I don't know, maybe maybe I'm being overly
Speaker 1: sensitive to this thing. But the first time that she fought,
Speaker 1: there was this music cue that I'm like, I know
Speaker 1: this music cue. It's guess who's fighting now, Like, there
Speaker 1: is that music cue the first time she fights, where
Speaker 1: it's a long stare, like she looks at the bug guy,
Speaker 1: I don't know what, Like she looks at the scary
Speaker 1: guy and she's like, oh, you don't think a girl
Speaker 1: can fun? Like she doesn't say it, but the music
Speaker 1: tells you that. And then she fights and then you're like,
Speaker 1: all right, I guess we broke the seal there. And
Speaker 1: then she continues to fight, and like we know why
Speaker 1: she knows how to fight like all this stuff because
Speaker 1: she she had a mentor growing up as well. So
Speaker 1: it's not a Merry Sioux situation or anything like that,
Speaker 1: but I wish she'd I do. I sort of wanted
Speaker 1: her to get involved in the action a little sooner
Speaker 1: because there were I think like at least one, possibly
Speaker 1: two large fight set pieces where she's sidelined and I
Speaker 1: didn't think necessarily had to be right, that's fair, Yeah,
Speaker 1: But I was also I was also paying attention to
Speaker 1: things like does she ever have to be saved by
Speaker 1: a man? Is she doing any of the shaving? And
Speaker 1: I found that she she saves him twice. She saves
Speaker 1: him twice one when the first like that big title
Speaker 1: wave that arm throws at them. She saves both Aquaman
Speaker 1: and his dad by also like kind of giving him
Speaker 1: like Atlantean CPR, basically like using her powers to like
Speaker 1: extract the her from his lungs, and then she saves
Speaker 1: him from Patrick Wilson's fashy rage. Yes, and after like
Speaker 1: the ring of fire battle and yeah, I mean when
Speaker 1: we do see her fighting, she is a competent fighter.
Speaker 1: She can turn wine into swords. That's pretty cool. I know.
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, what a live laugh love moment.
Speaker 1: Uh well, I mean technically Jesus is her teacher, so
Speaker 1: whoa that. Guess what you can do with the wine?
Speaker 1: Love it? It's so deep. Um, yeah, I think I think.
Speaker 1: I just like that. Whenever that like girl fighting now
Speaker 1: music que plays, I'm just like, come on, come on,
Speaker 1: James Wan. You know women can fight. You've been doing
Speaker 1: that forever. But whatever. But and then towards the end,
Speaker 1: there's there is someone who saves Mara as they're approaching
Speaker 1: like the tridents resting place and they're being attacked by
Speaker 1: all these like sea creatures, and at first I thought, O,
Speaker 1: it was Aquaman, but then it turns out to be
Speaker 1: this unknown figure who ends up being Nicole Kidman's character.
Speaker 1: So I was like, Okay, she at no point has
Speaker 1: to be saved by a man, unless I'm like missing
Speaker 1: something or forgetting something. I don't think that happens. No,
Speaker 1: she doesn't, Okay, so that was I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: that's that's something for you know, that's kind of unusual.
Speaker 1: She's fighting with weapons, like the bars on the floor,
Speaker 1: but like she fights with weapons, it's not like random
Speaker 1: stuff that's around and has like powers. I feel like
Speaker 1: a lot of superhero movies don't really equip if there
Speaker 1: is like one woman in the story, she isn't like
Speaker 1: thinking of the first like Avengers movie where Black Widow
Speaker 1: all these other characters have like out of this world powers,
Speaker 1: and then Black Widows like, I can wrap my legs
Speaker 1: around a man's face and pussy slam him to the ground.
Speaker 1: But she's got actual powers also in the like when
Speaker 1: the movie turns into National Treasure for a while and
Speaker 1: they're like having to use like clue solving skills. She
Speaker 1: knows what to do with the first artifact. She knows
Speaker 1: where to go and how to find it. She knows
Speaker 1: how to access the recording, which leads them to the
Speaker 1: next clue. She memorizes that recording, which Aquaman like didn't
Speaker 1: even think to do or couldn't do, or you know,
Speaker 1: I relate to that too, because I legit would be
Speaker 1: like what did he just say? What do we have
Speaker 1: to do? I would have to watch it forty seven
Speaker 1: times and like write it down. Yeah, And I like that.
Speaker 1: It's like it's not just I feel like very often.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you could even make this argument
Speaker 1: for National Treasure of like, even when there's a capable woman,
Speaker 1: she's all along for the ride. I mean, in the
Speaker 1: case of National Treasure, she's a hostage for a while
Speaker 1: and doesn't do any of the clue solving, even though
Speaker 1: she's like a historian. So but but in this case,
Speaker 1: it's not only is mera a very very important active participant,
Speaker 1: they also share a common goal like her, their fates
Speaker 1: are connected, and so the stakes are extreme high for her.
Speaker 1: It's not just like I have a crush on this guy,
Speaker 1: so I'm going to help him out, or Nicholas Cage
Speaker 1: is taking me hostage, so let me see what I
Speaker 1: can do, like you know, right, And then the second
Speaker 1: big clue, Aquaman figures that out because he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: Romulus was the king. We have to put the bottle
Speaker 1: and the statues hand, and then that's how we find
Speaker 1: the thing. But it just means that there's equity between
Speaker 1: like she saw the first thing, he solves the second one.
Speaker 1: They're like equals in this endeavor, which again is not
Speaker 1: It's like, should just be the standard thing that we
Speaker 1: can expect, but it's almost never that way. It's almost like,
Speaker 1: you know, the man doing all the work, the woman's
Speaker 1: there along for the ride to look pretty and to
Speaker 1: kiss at the end, which does happen in this movie too.
Speaker 1: I would argue that this love story feels very wedged in,
Speaker 1: doesn't really need to be there, doesn't really develop in
Speaker 1: any meaningful way except for that one scene where she's like,
Speaker 1: look at me eat flowers and he's like, ha ha,
Speaker 1: you're you're cute, and then and then they're kissing right
Speaker 1: there are Yeah, there are a few like hey, end
Speaker 1: brusha's and then meaningful glances and it's like is this necessary?
Speaker 1: I mean sure, I guess, And it didn't like super
Speaker 1: bother me because the characters do have chemistry, but it
Speaker 1: was like, I agree, it's like it is wedged It
Speaker 1: could have been a potentially like tutor, I guess, if
Speaker 1: she was more like a younger sister or something as
Speaker 1: opposed to a love interest. Yeah, because the optics of like, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess who cares. But it's like she
Speaker 1: was going to marry her, she's being forced to marry
Speaker 1: his brother, and then she's like, oh, I guess I'm
Speaker 1: just actually going to marry her, which feels very like
Speaker 1: classically royal story that felt like this felt like such
Speaker 1: a modern story, and to have that like royal brother
Speaker 1: conflict felt more dated. I don't know, I don't they
Speaker 1: would have taken the kiss out of that big fight
Speaker 1: scene and then at the end where he's like what
Speaker 1: do I do now, she's like be their king and
Speaker 1: he like kind of kisses her on the forehead before
Speaker 1: he does that thing. I'm like, how cute would that
Speaker 1: have been? If that would have been like a big
Speaker 1: brother like I'm gonna be the king or whatever instead
Speaker 1: of oh, we just made out and you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, like something a little bit more wholesome. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like I like the little sister thing, or like
Speaker 1: I'd like to just see more examples of like women
Speaker 1: being men and a woman being platonic friends in a
Speaker 1: movie that they don't have any fine, they can still
Speaker 1: both be like movie star hot, but also like it
Speaker 1: doesn't automatically mean they're going to be attracted to each
Speaker 1: other and gonna wanna kiss someone. Max and Furious too
Speaker 1: hot people who don't kiss, and they are just allies.
Speaker 1: And I love that. Just let hot people be friends.
Speaker 1: Just let people friends once, I would say. And I
Speaker 1: mean as far as like so Mara, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I would have liked to get to know her a
Speaker 1: little bit better. She doesn't have that much of an arc.
Speaker 1: She doesn't feel like that new wance or complicated of
Speaker 1: a character to me. I don't know. I feel like
Speaker 1: there could have been more, like I don't know, just
Speaker 1: emotional nuance to her, which I think could have been
Speaker 1: explored if she was like a member of their family,
Speaker 1: like the little sister or you know, a friend of
Speaker 1: the family who I don't know. It just I felt
Speaker 1: like there could have been more to develop her. But
Speaker 1: I was generally impressed with the way her character was
Speaker 1: handled and the amount that she was given to do
Speaker 1: and the agency that she had. I was. I was
Speaker 1: generally impressed with all of that. I agree. There is though,
Speaker 1: a scene which kind of like picked for me. When
Speaker 1: it's towards the end, Aquaman and Mara have shown up
Speaker 1: at this like cave place where the trident is supposed
Speaker 1: to be. Nicole Kidman is also like, by the way,
Speaker 1: I've been hiding for twenty years. And then we're also like,
Speaker 1: does that mean that Aquaman is only like twenty five
Speaker 1: because I think she he was like a small boy
Speaker 1: when she So I'm like, okay, I guess Aquaman's twenty
Speaker 1: five or something. Think about was like forty something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's and she's supposed to be Patrick Wilson's mother, Like
Speaker 1: Patrick Wilson is like fifty. You're like, well, I guess
Speaker 1: it's all relative. We don't know how people in Atlantis
Speaker 1: age by aging my aging underwater differently. This is just
Speaker 1: a goofy Atlantis observation. But there would be some of
Speaker 1: the scenes in Atlantis where you would just you would
Speaker 1: just be seeing the actors from like the chest up,
Speaker 1: and then they would suddenly cut to a wide shot
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, they're floating there. It's just like
Speaker 1: that guy's hair is just like Doren has like red hair,
Speaker 1: and he's just like sort of floating around and his
Speaker 1: hair is all going everywhere. Seed where they take Willhem
Speaker 1: Dafoe's nice Jaffar character to the dungeon or whatever. They
Speaker 1: cut to a wide shot and like to those like kicking,
Speaker 1: and I was like, that's so funny. I forget that
Speaker 1: he's swimming in this scene while he's going, um, he's
Speaker 1: being taken to the dungeon. Yeah, it looks very stall anyway.
Speaker 1: So the three of them have all kind of reunited.
Speaker 1: It's an aquaman and his mother and then Mara, and
Speaker 1: there's you were like Aquamans like, all right, I gotta
Speaker 1: go find the trident. And he goes and like does
Speaker 1: the very important thing of the movie, and then he
Speaker 1: comes back to where Mara in Atlanta or Atlanta are
Speaker 1: just like, well, we had to wait for the man
Speaker 1: to do the important thing, and then we were just
Speaker 1: the two women who were sitting here waiting. Well, they
Speaker 1: don't want to. I think that's fair enough. You do
Speaker 1: not want women with the tentacle monster in this movie
Speaker 1: because fandom is weird enough without god fair fair enough.
Speaker 1: That picked for me as well. And I feel like
Speaker 1: that could have been remedied by just like writing a
Speaker 1: short scene for them. Yeah, because I forget who was
Speaker 1: saying it earlier, but like she would have known Queen
Speaker 1: Atlanta since she was very young. They would have plenty
Speaker 1: to talk about. She was going to be forced to
Speaker 1: marry her bed son, she's falling in love with her
Speaker 1: good son. They just have known each other for a
Speaker 1: long time. Maybe they'll reminisce about something. What is Nicole
Speaker 1: Kidman been up to? Like, there's so many questions and
Speaker 1: there could have been a scene with them. Wait would
Speaker 1: they have known? Wouldn't have Nicole Kidman's character been banished
Speaker 1: probably before Mary was even born? I don't know, because
Speaker 1: I think Mari says something. I think Mari says something
Speaker 1: like this goes against everything your mother taught us or something. Right,
Speaker 1: It's that was Yeah, it sounds like they which again
Speaker 1: you have to suspend your disbelief and believe that Patrick
Speaker 1: Wilson and Amber her at the same age, which is
Speaker 1: very obviously not true. But yeah, I like I think
Speaker 1: that they would have known each other. But even if not,
Speaker 1: there's plenty to talk about. Yeah, or if like if
Speaker 1: we want to throw in another like fight sequence in
Speaker 1: there where if like some of the sea creatures had
Speaker 1: like infiltrated this place and then we have to see
Speaker 1: these like two women, you know, kick some ass like
Speaker 1: an action movie. After all, Like it just felt so
Speaker 1: weird to me that, like he comes back and it's
Speaker 1: like these two women were just like, okay, we wait.
Speaker 1: We were here waiting for you the man to do
Speaker 1: with the important thing, and we were just sitting here
Speaker 1: waiting and I was like, that could have been handled
Speaker 1: way better. Yeah. Yeah, But bottom line, especially compared to
Speaker 1: superhero movies and the way women are treated in them
Speaker 1: for years prior to this, uh, Mara's involvement in story
Speaker 1: is pretty decent. Yeah, motivated, there's action, like, it's good.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't call it trinity syndrome either, you know. I
Speaker 1: there's plenty for her to do. It's not like she
Speaker 1: just showed up and it's like, now what do I do?
Speaker 1: And I'm here? Really how cool I am? What do
Speaker 1: I do? Nothing? Yeah, it's not like Morpheus sent me.
Speaker 1: It's like I sent myself because I see that this
Speaker 1: man that I've been forced into a marriage is trying
Speaker 1: to kill the world, so I have to um stop him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then in the same in the same way. I mean,
Speaker 1: and I think we've kind of covered this at this point,
Speaker 1: but um, Queen Atlanta has a full arc. You know,
Speaker 1: It's it does seem like you're kind of led to
Speaker 1: believe for the majority of the movie that she is Fridged.
Speaker 1: But then not only is she not Fridge, but she
Speaker 1: gets to go on this like beautiful journey that makes
Speaker 1: me cry when I think about it. Um, So, you know,
Speaker 1: there are certainly more characters of consequence in this story
Speaker 1: that are men. For sure. There's brother conflict, there's pirate
Speaker 1: merman conflict. There's fathers and sons. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: you know, male relationship. And I don't even necessarily mean
Speaker 1: that in a bad way because there's a wide variety
Speaker 1: of them. And then there are like two women in
Speaker 1: the story basically, and they are both white ladies, which
Speaker 1: but the women who are there, I think that the
Speaker 1: script does right by them and they have fully realized
Speaker 1: stories and their motivated, dead and involved and yeah, h
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk a little bit more about the
Speaker 1: relationship between Aquaman and his dad because I think it's beautiful,
Speaker 1: and we do joke a lot on the show about
Speaker 1: how like, ultimately all stories are about fathers and sons. Um,
Speaker 1: this one doesn't bother me. This one's beautiful, This one
Speaker 1: doesn't bother me. It's it's a very sweet and supportive relationship.
Speaker 1: Between the two of them. I feel like a trope
Speaker 1: you see A lot is like the younger man, the son,
Speaker 1: trying to prove himself to his dad and like kind
Speaker 1: of being toxic along the way, or like the dad
Speaker 1: character needs to redeem himself because he's been a shitty,
Speaker 1: absent dad for his whole life. But there's like none
Speaker 1: of that in this story. It's just like they've been together.
Speaker 1: They are supportive of each other. There's no like masculinity
Speaker 1: contest that either of them are trying to win. They're
Speaker 1: just like having a nice time together and they love
Speaker 1: each other. And I really appreciate she ate that representation
Speaker 1: of like a father son relationship in a movie, because
Speaker 1: we don't usually get anything like that. Yeah, there is
Speaker 1: a there's a line of dialogue the Aquamenses towards the
Speaker 1: end that I found to be confused. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know if this was a joke or what, but
Speaker 1: it's when Mara is saying she said something like we
Speaker 1: need to like encourage diplomacy, or we need to like
Speaker 1: try to talk this out or like get it so
Speaker 1: that the different like kingdoms of Atlantis are like get
Speaker 1: It's something along those lines. I didn't write down specifically
Speaker 1: what it was, but Aquaman's response to that was, I
Speaker 1: learned from a young age not to show weakness. I
Speaker 1: solved my problems with anger and my fists. I'm a
Speaker 1: blunt instrument and I'm damn good at it. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: is that actually even true? Like I feel like your
Speaker 1: father wouldn't have like taught you that. Yeah, I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm a tough man. Think guys will like guys like
Speaker 1: you as I'd be like, look, I'm a little fucked
Speaker 1: up and you're like, because why like lass party and
Speaker 1: with those guys in that scene earlier, but it was
Speaker 1: so it was so sweet. That was like the est. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't see Batman doing that ship. Aquaman is so
Speaker 1: much better. He's a friendly neighborhood Aquaman. He's a wholesome
Speaker 1: boy boy. Yeah. No, that that relationship with that was
Speaker 1: really well done. And it also didn't like it was
Speaker 1: so I don't know, Yeah, it didn't like overtake the
Speaker 1: story in a way that I feel like those relationships
Speaker 1: sometimes do. And like, like you were saying at the
Speaker 1: beginning of the episode, Alley, there's all of these like
Speaker 1: pretty nuanced themes in this movie that just it's just seamless.
Speaker 1: You don't feel like the movie is like really pushing
Speaker 1: any particular theme on you. It's just like it's just
Speaker 1: happening and it's and it's good. Yeah. That's really surprising
Speaker 1: because of like Lesser Hands, you know, like this could
Speaker 1: have been so messy and a movie that's already kind
Speaker 1: of messy. I'm happy that part wasn't. You know, it's right.
Speaker 1: I did appreciately like pro environmental conservation message of the movie,
Speaker 1: although it was kind of weird that it was the
Speaker 1: motivation for the villain and that it wasn't also the
Speaker 1: motivation for like the good guys. That's a little Ghostbusters
Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, we're like the E p A Is
Speaker 1: the Devil. Yeah. I feel like they didn't want to
Speaker 1: make the villain to sympathetic, you know, where it's like
Speaker 1: kill Monger, you know, like made so many good points,
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, we can't have y'all, you know,
Speaker 1: rooting for the bad guys, so let's make him a misogynist,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like black Panther. Otherwise, I
Speaker 1: mean people would be like, oh, yeah, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, right, Like, yeah, see your point. Maybe I
Speaker 1: should follow you actually, So then Orm is like, you know,
Speaker 1: well you're not wrong, but you're also a fascistict yeah,
Speaker 1: like or recognizes the environmental issue in a way that
Speaker 1: Aquaman doesn't as much. But also his proposed solution is
Speaker 1: violence and like racial violence and uh like would not
Speaker 1: resolve the problem, but he acknowledges it. So it's weird.
Speaker 1: And then at the end that line that Nicole Kidman
Speaker 1: when she comes to like, I whatever, it's a comic
Speaker 1: book story. So when she goes over and hugs her
Speaker 1: son and she's like, don't do a fascism and he's like,
Speaker 1: oh man, I feel so silly, and like he's like,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, mommy, I really I wasn't gonna I definitely
Speaker 1: wasn't going to do a fascism. And then I'll go
Speaker 1: to jail. Now think about what you did in the
Speaker 1: dungeon and like in the swimming dungeon or whatever, and
Speaker 1: so it's like all very whatever end of movie stuff.
Speaker 1: But then Nicole Kidman says something like that makes sense
Speaker 1: thematically with aquaman S narrative, where she's like the land
Speaker 1: and the you know, we're all she's kind of like,
Speaker 1: this is a monoculture maybe, and it's like, Okay, that
Speaker 1: is I see, I see why she's saying that, But
Speaker 1: that really pushes the environmental stuff aside. And because we've
Speaker 1: been seeing I mean, that's why I'm intrigued by the
Speaker 1: Randall Park character UM and how he is going to
Speaker 1: team up with be held hostage by unclear uh with
Speaker 1: Black Manta. But like it seems like the movie setting,
Speaker 1: like the franchise, is being set up to address that
Speaker 1: in a more meaningful way in the next movie. It
Speaker 1: seems like it. I hope that there will be UH
Speaker 1: in the sequel. I hope that there will be more
Speaker 1: women of color in it, especially like Polynesian women are
Speaker 1: more Polynesian characters in general, because you know, ycause it's
Speaker 1: the Polynesian superhero. And also I guess the the environmental issues.
Speaker 1: I wonder if it was also now that I think
Speaker 1: about it, I wonder if it was kind of swept
Speaker 1: under the rug a little bit because Jason Momoa was
Speaker 1: protesting Mauna Kea around the time and then was also
Speaker 1: standing in solidarity with Standing Rock Yes, and they were
Speaker 1: probably like, well, we don't want it to get to
Speaker 1: preachy because we're still Hollywood and you know, I don't
Speaker 1: want to make too many waves. We don't want to
Speaker 1: be pro environment. That would be absurd, that would be
Speaker 1: a bad look for us. So it's like, what do
Speaker 1: you mean God, I mean yeah, And then you think
Speaker 1: about whether you can't you can't. You just can't think
Speaker 1: about it. Like the carbon footprint of a movie like
Speaker 1: this is gigantic and there aren't enough. Um. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's a conversation that we should have on this show someday,
Speaker 1: but I just haven't done enough research on it. But
Speaker 1: just like the massive carbon footprint that movies havepen how
Speaker 1: there's basically no regulations on how much energy you can
Speaker 1: just bust into the air making you know, Willem Dafoe
Speaker 1: swim or whatever it is, Like right, yeah, I would
Speaker 1: like to learn more about that too. I feel like
Speaker 1: we like, very very minimally scratched the surface when we
Speaker 1: talked about Babe on the Patreon and I get a
Speaker 1: little deep dive onto like how certain practical effects have
Speaker 1: like killed nearby animals on movie sets. There have been
Speaker 1: a few examples of that, but like, yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: just like wildlife, it's just, yeah, the kind of ecological
Speaker 1: impact that a lot of production movie productions have is
Speaker 1: I'm sure not great. The next big big blockbuster we cover,
Speaker 1: maybe I'll do a section of Avatar to probably because
Speaker 1: you know that. God, Yeah, when we do the Avatar episode,
Speaker 1: that would be that would because it's like, oh, this
Speaker 1: that movie does claim to be a lot of things,
Speaker 1: but you're like, bull, but what was the carbon footprint
Speaker 1: of that? Mr Cameron? Can can we get some numbers there?
Speaker 1: Among other things? Yeah? H does anyone have any other
Speaker 1: thoughts about the movie that they like to discuss. I
Speaker 1: want to say yes, but I'm blanking out. I think
Speaker 1: that's that's everything that I had. There's so there was
Speaker 1: so much, there's so much to love about this movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do have a newfound appreciation for it. I mean,
Speaker 1: for me, like when I watch a movie, I'm mostly
Speaker 1: analyzing until I analyze it through like the Bechtel cast lens.
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at it from like I'm mostly like
Speaker 1: story point of view, and like how well are the
Speaker 1: characters developed, how compelling are the themes, how structurally sound
Speaker 1: is the story? How like effective is the world building?
Speaker 1: And I feel like some of those things in this
Speaker 1: movie is like what made it feel very like clunky,
Speaker 1: Like most of the world building is done through like
Speaker 1: very clunky dialogue, and I'm just like, come on, of exposition.
Speaker 1: Yeah there's But visually, for me, some of the choices
Speaker 1: were strange, and again I was experiencing a lot of
Speaker 1: sensory overload. But um, yeah, I do have a I
Speaker 1: have way more appreciation for this movie than I did
Speaker 1: before we started talking about it on this show. So
Speaker 1: I every time I see I was selling Caitlin this
Speaker 1: off Mike before we started recording. But I was like
Speaker 1: everything that I found confusing about this movie, I suddenly
Speaker 1: was like, I actually like it because it's all James
Speaker 1: Wan stuff, Like James Wan created Jigsaw. Who if can
Speaker 1: you think of a more expositional character than Jigsaw. He
Speaker 1: the movies are not particularly well written, and they look
Speaker 1: absolutely weird every single time, but it just it just works.
Speaker 1: His movies are just vibrating. That's the James Wan way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Jigsaw is the ultimate I think. I guess listeners, let
Speaker 1: me know if there's a character that um is more
Speaker 1: inherently expositional than Jigsaw. We should do a saw a
Speaker 1: month on the Patriot we got. Oh goodness, does this
Speaker 1: movie pass the back door test. I forgot to pay attention.
Speaker 1: It does. I I saw it passing one time. It
Speaker 1: is a two and a half hour movie. Maybe I
Speaker 1: missed something, But there was one interaction that Jason Momoa
Speaker 1: is present for and it's shot from the back, so
Speaker 1: it could have even been a d R. But maybe
Speaker 1: maybe someone flagged that in James Wanda is like, oh shit, um.
Speaker 1: But Nicole Kidman and uh Mea have an exchange where
Speaker 1: Mara says something like and you've been here for twenty
Speaker 1: years and she's like, yes, I've been here for twenty years,
Speaker 1: and then they're like, anyways, aqua man. But it does.
Speaker 1: Technically it does pass. Okay, well, good for the movie.
Speaker 1: They also had two and a half other hours to
Speaker 1: to maybe do that, And but that is like, that's
Speaker 1: I think an extension of a problem we've been talking
Speaker 1: about for five years now that the first time I
Speaker 1: remember talking about it was in our Star Wars episode
Speaker 1: four episode where it's like, how could this movie pass
Speaker 1: the Bechdel test? There's only one woman she's got to
Speaker 1: want to talk to, and it's like there's only two
Speaker 1: women and they only appear in one scene together. Where
Speaker 1: else is this going to pass. That's like a structural flaw.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that does speak to how there are
Speaker 1: a lot of characters in this movie and most of
Speaker 1: them are met. We get another like there's a scene
Speaker 1: where Orm kills like the mermaid kingman and then his
Speaker 1: daughter who's like teen daughters now, like the heir to
Speaker 1: the throne. So then she shows up in a later
Speaker 1: battle and she's like doing some stuff here and there
Speaker 1: barely I mean blank, and you'll miss her. But other
Speaker 1: than that that, yeah, there really aren't any women. But like,
Speaker 1: for example, Willem Dafoe's character easily could have been a
Speaker 1: woman like one of the villains, like other of the
Speaker 1: villains could have been a woman. There are and I'm
Speaker 1: sure that that connects to like the common Book says, well,
Speaker 1: but it's like this movie already, this franchise already made
Speaker 1: changes independently of the comic book that improved the source material.
Speaker 1: So why not why not keep going with it? What
Speaker 1: if Black Manta's dad would have been Black Manta's mom mother, right,
Speaker 1: because then that really would have been shitty if he
Speaker 1: would have left his mom to die, you know after
Speaker 1: what he did, Like no, fuck you, I mean Black
Speaker 1: Manta could have also been a woman, Like what's what's
Speaker 1: to stop that from happening. But I do like the
Speaker 1: idea of it being his mother instead of his father,
Speaker 1: because then that's like Aquaman has like mommy problems, and
Speaker 1: that would like heighten the conflict between the two of
Speaker 1: them if they have this like shared like loss of
Speaker 1: mother and like, ah, yeah, it was right there, it
Speaker 1: was right. That's why you don't let an l a
Speaker 1: p d. Officer write your movie. They're gonna yeah, um,
Speaker 1: as far as our nipple scale goes zero to five nipples.
Speaker 1: Analyzing it through an intersexual feminist lens um, I would
Speaker 1: say between Mara and Atlanta, even though they are the
Speaker 1: only two women in the story and they don't really
Speaker 1: interact hardly ever, but as individual characters, like there's interesting
Speaker 1: things happening there, there's more equity between Like Mara, who
Speaker 1: is positioned to be the love interest, but she's also
Speaker 1: more than that. In this movie, she's all that, she's
Speaker 1: doing other stuff, she's fighting, she's solving clues, she has
Speaker 1: the agency to like seek out Aquaman to begin with,
Speaker 1: so you know, she's far more important to the narrative
Speaker 1: than a lot of other like superhero movie female counterparts
Speaker 1: of hers have been in the past, So that's cool.
Speaker 1: The fact that this movie is representation of an indigenous superhero,
Speaker 1: a biracial superhero. Uh the kids adults alike have seen
Speaker 1: themselves represented in is like really important, really powerful, very meaningful.
Speaker 1: The relationship between Aquaman and his dad and how there's like, again,
Speaker 1: so many father son relationships are in movies are so
Speaker 1: steeped in like some weird form of toxic masculinity, and
Speaker 1: the fact that that's absent from this relationship I think
Speaker 1: is a very positive thing to see on screen. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, there's a lot of things going for the
Speaker 1: movie that again, when looking at it through the through
Speaker 1: the bectolcast lens, I appreciate it way more. So with
Speaker 1: that in mind, I'll give it like three and a
Speaker 1: half nipples, because there's still some stuff that, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of rubbed me the wrong way. The fact that
Speaker 1: the only black characters are villains, Like, why weren't there
Speaker 1: black Atlanteans who are just existing in that world? Why
Speaker 1: aren't there other just like any yeah, any people of
Speaker 1: color elsewhere in the story, because it's still a predominantly
Speaker 1: white cast. And and then there are the only black
Speaker 1: characters we meet, Like there immediately sidelines until the credits
Speaker 1: of the movie, right, yeah, yeah, and then you've got
Speaker 1: like Randall Park, who seems like a very fun character.
Speaker 1: I was like, so, where's he? Give me more him?
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure he has a very large role in
Speaker 1: the second movie. I did a little digging, and I
Speaker 1: love Randall Park. Yeah, he's great. So I think there
Speaker 1: could have been more, just diversity overall, but yeah, even so,
Speaker 1: I was three three and a half nipples, and I
Speaker 1: will give one to Jason Momoa. I'll give one to
Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman's wig. I'll give one to Always got to
Speaker 1: give one to her wig and never to her and
Speaker 1: never to her. I'll give one to Randall Park. And
Speaker 1: I'll give my half nipple to the how do you
Speaker 1: say this word? Corinth Corinthian corinthe No, not Corinthian whatever,
Speaker 1: the giant crab monster. H So that gets my that's
Speaker 1: my half nipple. I'll meet you at three and a half.
Speaker 1: That sounds right to me. Um, yeah, I I agree
Speaker 1: with what you're saying. I feel like this movie is
Speaker 1: doing so much for a superhero movie. I absolutely loved
Speaker 1: and really appreciated you sharing your connection to it. Ali
Speaker 1: like it is just like I'm so glad this movie exists,
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad that the Yeah, that just that's
Speaker 1: how this world is, and that it I don't know,
Speaker 1: like it subverted a lot of my expectations of just
Speaker 1: what I expect from superhero movies in general, but also
Speaker 1: just you know, including a biracial character in a meaningful way,
Speaker 1: in a very authentic and thoughtful way that was also
Speaker 1: true to like who the actor himself is, and just
Speaker 1: all of this wonderful thematic stuff and then and then
Speaker 1: I mean in terms of how I mean, and I
Speaker 1: agree that the two female characters that we have are
Speaker 1: wonderful and they have these fully realized stories. They're very motivated,
Speaker 1: they're they're also very white. And I really hope that
Speaker 1: you know, in like like we've discussed already, that there
Speaker 1: is diversity across gender in this franchise as it continues
Speaker 1: to develop, which I want to believe is going to happen.
Speaker 1: Um also know, like body diversity to like there's a
Speaker 1: shot where like the two women are standing next to
Speaker 1: each other and it's like, oh, you have the same
Speaker 1: exact body type, Well you forgot Nicole Kidman is taller
Speaker 1: than husband. That if mirror was cast by like a big, hulking,
Speaker 1: gorgeous woman like yeah, hell yeah, or that would have
Speaker 1: been Acquaman's mom. So like the cole Conman's beautiful a lot.
Speaker 1: If it was right like rich people were gigantic, which
Speaker 1: is why he's fucking gigantic, that would make sense to me. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I never have to do Jamie, No, no, I'll go
Speaker 1: three and a half. I am now officially amped to
Speaker 1: see Aquaman two. Who knew James wants directing the new
Speaker 1: one as well? I appreciate James Wan. Okay, three and
Speaker 1: a half nipples. Gotta give one to James Want. I'm
Speaker 1: as big as fan. Also, I'll give one to the
Speaker 1: Cthulhu as well. Give one to Jason Momoa. He is fantastic.
Speaker 1: I really love him, and I'll give my last half two.
Speaker 1: Randall Park nice Illi, what about you? Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: three and a half is fair because you know, obviously
Speaker 1: the movie meant a lot to me for a bunch
Speaker 1: of different emotional reasons. But uh, but yeah, it does
Speaker 1: have a lot of clunkiness in it. The exposition, like
Speaker 1: I said, is all over the place. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of information, a lot of backstory. Um, but all of
Speaker 1: it is cool, So I'm a little bit more forgiving,
Speaker 1: But it just could have been done better. Birds of
Speaker 1: Prey kind of does that too. Actually, it's just a
Speaker 1: little slapping, a lot packed into yeah, a lot of characters.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's like when you have that many characters,
Speaker 1: you're like, well, someone's going to get lost in the mix.
Speaker 1: Like and yeah, I think it was supposed to be
Speaker 1: two movies and they just kind of like combine them
Speaker 1: and it feels that way. Yeah, But like I said,
Speaker 1: like a lot of the stuff, the stuff that's clumsy
Speaker 1: is clumsy, but not terrible. I've definitely seen so much
Speaker 1: worse in the d C EU on top of that, Like,
Speaker 1: but the stuff that they did well, they did very
Speaker 1: very well, like surprisingly well. So yeah, i'll give it
Speaker 1: three and a half. Also, I'll give one of these
Speaker 1: nips to Jason Momoa. I'd like to give him too,
Speaker 1: but he can just have one. I'll give another one
Speaker 1: to his dad because Mandalorian. I'm going to give the
Speaker 1: third one to Black Manta just because, yeah, Yama is
Speaker 1: so hot and I know that's not what it's important
Speaker 1: right now, but I just had to say that he's
Speaker 1: hot but bad. He was also like I know that
Speaker 1: there's a problematic element obviously with the black guy be
Speaker 1: and the villain, but man, at least he was a
Speaker 1: good villain, which wouldn't have been an issue again if
Speaker 1: there were other black characters, right, but because he's he
Speaker 1: and his dad were the only ones in his dad dies,
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, well that's pretty glaring anyway, right of course.
Speaker 1: But then uh, yeah, my half, I guess we'll go
Speaker 1: to Nicole kidman, just just a cool kidsman. Just get
Speaker 1: that I have to give the full ones to the
Speaker 1: people of color and the indigenous folks, and you can
Speaker 1: just have a half just half. Well, Alie, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for coming back and joining us in this
Speaker 1: wonderful discussion and for sharing your your connection with this movie.
Speaker 1: It's like really moving and I was like tearing up
Speaker 1: and yeah, me too, thank you for putting up with
Speaker 1: me during that. Oh my god, oh my god, any
Speaker 1: please come back anytime, like truly, I will come back
Speaker 1: for Avatar properly. I called this. Nobody else gets to
Speaker 1: do it but me. You've got Avatar. Does give me
Speaker 1: a call and be like all right, we're doing this,
Speaker 1: and I will be like, yes, we are my time.
Speaker 1: Wait when does the next When does Avatar to come out?
Speaker 1: Twenty years from now? Probably? Yeah, like not for another
Speaker 1: year and a half. We can't wait. It can't it
Speaker 1: can't wait. It can't wait. An it's never coming out?
Speaker 1: Oh God. But yeah, I would love to come back
Speaker 1: and thank for inviting me again. I love talking about movies, yes,
Speaker 1: and we love having you. Where can people you know
Speaker 1: check out your stuff follow you online? Tell us about
Speaker 1: the A LA tests. We've talked about it before, but
Speaker 1: tell our listeners who might not be familiar, what the
Speaker 1: LA test is. Okay, So the A LA tests started
Speaker 1: off on Tumbler. It's the dash A LA dash test
Speaker 1: dot tumbler dot com. And it was when I was
Speaker 1: in Finland and came up with a Bechdel Test inspired
Speaker 1: litmus test I suppose for a Native and Indigenous women,
Speaker 1: where I noticed that when they appear movies, they're usually
Speaker 1: not a main character or a white guy's girlfriend, or
Speaker 1: they get murdered or they get sexually assaulted and every
Speaker 1: single thing I've seen, so I'm like, okay, let's look
Speaker 1: for characters who are the main character so an Indigenous
Speaker 1: woman who is a main character, who is not the
Speaker 1: love interest to a white guy and doesn't get sexually
Speaker 1: assaulted or killed at any point in the story. And
Speaker 1: it took off, Like I don't know, people just really
Speaker 1: responded really well to this, which I was kind of
Speaker 1: surprised by. But I guess when you have like hard evidence,
Speaker 1: you know, where it's all like, no, I don't think
Speaker 1: I'm making this up by seeing this pattern, and it's
Speaker 1: a very disturbing pattern that keeps happening, and people are like, yeah,
Speaker 1: actually that is kind of sucked up. You know, why
Speaker 1: aren't more characters passing the ALA test? Yeah, And it
Speaker 1: was kind of like I mean, it was I believe,
Speaker 1: like the first of its kind as far as like
Speaker 1: an like a test examining representation of Indigenous women in media,
Speaker 1: and like when you have something like that that's like
Speaker 1: also like easily quantifiable or like qualifiable, Like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: I'm not surprised that it took off, because it's like
Speaker 1: it's a great way to like open up that conversation
Speaker 1: about representation of Indigenous characters and women in media. And
Speaker 1: that's all I really wanted it to do. You know.
Speaker 1: It was just like start the conversation and then hopefully
Speaker 1: it leads to better movies and better characters, which I
Speaker 1: hope it has. Like people have been talking about it
Speaker 1: a lot, I think, I mean, it seems like it has.
Speaker 1: I like, I don't know it already has like such
Speaker 1: a cool, impactful legacy. The Gina Davis Institute called it out,
Speaker 1: So congratulations, that was amazing. She got me into the
Speaker 1: goddamn league. You're part of the Justice League now, yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, and then I did another test. I think
Speaker 1: I was talking about this when we were talking about
Speaker 1: movie talks with Caitlin. Yes, yes, yes, where it was
Speaker 1: does the Indian live? Which is also like does the
Speaker 1: Native American characters show up in the movie? And does
Speaker 1: he die? Okay, if he does, he doesn't pass, you know, hope.
Speaker 1: So uh, that one hasn't quite as taken off. But
Speaker 1: that's mostly because I am not organized and I don't
Speaker 1: know how to run a website. So I'm figuring it
Speaker 1: out it don't happen. But other than that, you can
Speaker 1: find me on Twitter, Alie Naughty on Twitter, Alie Naughty
Speaker 1: on Tumbler, Elie Naughty on TikTok. If you really want
Speaker 1: to see me embarrass myself and on Instagram. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love your one minute movie reviews. They're really great. I
Speaker 1: haven't done one in a long time. I need to
Speaker 1: do it again. Yeah, bring it back, bring it back,
Speaker 1: And then you can follow us on Twitter and Instagram
Speaker 1: at spectel Cast. We've got our Matreon which is at
Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash spectel cast, and that's five dollars
Speaker 1: a month and you get to bonus episodes every single month,
Speaker 1: plus access to the entire back catalog, which is over
Speaker 1: one hundred bonus episodes. This month we did two of
Speaker 1: our most popular romcom request that we've just never done
Speaker 1: for some reason. So if you want to hear us
Speaker 1: absolutely hand. You've got males ads back to it. That's
Speaker 1: where you can go to do that how to Lose
Speaker 1: a Guy in ten Days as well. Um. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: Matrean community is so lovely and so fun and is loose.
Speaker 1: You know, we're hanging loose on the Matreon, so head
Speaker 1: over there. It's holiday time. If you want to get
Speaker 1: some merch, you can go to t public dot com
Speaker 1: slash the bettel Cast and I think that's everything. Well,
Speaker 1: we'll see you in December, alright, bye, bye bye,