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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, the show about the

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Speaker 1: worst people in all of history? UM, and boy howdy,

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Speaker 1: is it an appropriate week for an episode of this

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Speaker 1: show about the worst people in all of history? Because today,

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Speaker 1: UH is the day that UM, I don't know. It's

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Speaker 1: one of the days that a series of horrific wildfires

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Speaker 1: have gripped my entire state, forcing ten percent of its

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Speaker 1: population to flee. And there are armed militiamen setting up

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Speaker 1: checkpoints based on racism in paranoia in small rural areas.

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Speaker 1: And that may seem like it's not connected to other

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Speaker 1: things in history, but it's actually connected very directly to

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Speaker 1: the subject of our podcast today, which is a little

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Speaker 1: something called the School of the America's UH. And the

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Speaker 1: way that these two tied together is very fascinating. And

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Speaker 1: the oh you just heard UH is my guest today

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Speaker 1: Joel Monique, who is a culture critic and a podcast

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Speaker 1: You know, the thing that this is that you're listening

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Speaker 1: to a podcast producer. You produced the things that that

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Speaker 1: are occurring right now in everyone's ears. Joel, how are

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Speaker 1: you doing? I'm hanging in there. We're in the apocalypse done.

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Speaker 1: It's orange and the sky is gray. I am just

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Speaker 1: trying to keep it. It feels weird to keep going,

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Speaker 1: Like I feel like I have to change something actively

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Speaker 1: in my life to reflect the chaos outside. I haven't

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Speaker 1: figured what that is yet. I don't know that's how

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Speaker 1: I'm doing. I don't know how I'm doing. It's chaos. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we need a German word for how surreal it is

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Speaker 1: to like go out to a grocery store or meet

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Speaker 1: a friend for lunch, as like plumes of smoke the

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Speaker 1: size of skyscrapers drift by and and like the smell

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Speaker 1: of death fills the air, and fascist militias begin like bivouacking,

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Speaker 1: you know, twenty minutes away from your door. It's surreal, um.

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Speaker 1: But you know what's not surreal is how fashional the

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Speaker 1: introduction of this episode was. I got right in there,

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Speaker 1: like I directly connected it to a thing that was

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Speaker 1: going on. I just I'm real proud of that. Proud

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Speaker 1: of you, Robert, Thank you. School of the America's is

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Speaker 1: uh spoilers horrific uh c I a slash Defense Department

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Speaker 1: UM operation that that led to the overthrow of like

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Speaker 1: a dozen different democratically elected governments in Latin America over

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Speaker 1: the course of several decades. Um, oh yeah, no, it's

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Speaker 1: a bad thing. School the America's is a bad thing.

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Speaker 1: It's a bad It was a real terrible thing that

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Speaker 1: existed for a while, only happened on this podcast on

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Speaker 1: Our Home the episode it does tie in rather directly

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Speaker 1: to what's going on right now in the United States

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Speaker 1: because a lot of the things we're seeing the government

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Speaker 1: clamping down on unrest, you know, illegal arrests, suppression of

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Speaker 1: political opposition, the disappearance of political activists, the increasing um

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Speaker 1: interorganization between state law enforcement uh in different sort of

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Speaker 1: militias and paramilitary groups. All of that stuff that's happening

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Speaker 1: right now that people are getting really terrified about in

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Speaker 1: the United States is exactly the stuff that we've been

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Speaker 1: doing in Latin America in a number of different countries

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Speaker 1: for decades, going back to when like our parents were kids. Um,

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Speaker 1: and today is the episode about how a lot of

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Speaker 1: that was organized. So a lot of the things that

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Speaker 1: are happening in America today have their genesis and things

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Speaker 1: the United States was doing the Latin America and we're

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Speaker 1: going to learn about that. So that's going to be good. Yeah, listen,

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Speaker 1: I really am because the more people from who've been

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Speaker 1: in countries where they're like, oh, yeah, no fascists took

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Speaker 1: over here, They're like, pay attention to this small detail here,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh okay, and then they're like, and

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Speaker 1: let me show you how that expanded into something that

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Speaker 1: was horrible. Try to stop this before it becomes a fire.

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Speaker 1: Uh sorry, that's maybe bad phrasing right now. So it

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Speaker 1: actually I think it compares really well to a fire

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Speaker 1: because it's one of those things where you don't have

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Speaker 1: to have this kind of problem with fires like you

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Speaker 1: can there there are ways that people dealt with, you know,

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Speaker 1: the propensity and the fact that this both like every

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Speaker 1: the West Coast needs to burn a lot every year. Um,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't need to lead to hundreds of thousands of

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Speaker 1: people losing their homes because it's it can be managed

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Speaker 1: in predictable ways. But I mean, we they do control

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Speaker 1: fires and like put them out and get rid of

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Speaker 1: a lot of the nurseries that we have that exist

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Speaker 1: to just like raise a bunch of trees for commodification,

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Speaker 1: which you know are are much worse in terms of

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Speaker 1: like areas, like like they contribute to making an area

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Speaker 1: of vulnerable to fires, we can bury our power lines,

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Speaker 1: we can shut off power access to areas. Like, there's

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of things that can be done. And

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Speaker 1: we want to solve a problem after it's become a

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Speaker 1: problem never before. And the calamity that Oregon in California's

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Speaker 1: experiencing right now, a lot of people saw it coming,

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Speaker 1: just like a lot of people have seen the rise

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Speaker 1: of fascism coming for decades in the United States, and

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Speaker 1: instead of doing anything about it, we had that one

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Speaker 1: TV show where Um Flavor Flav he does this like

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Speaker 1: he had this he was looking for a wife. If

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Speaker 1: I'm remembering correctly, Um, expect to be the next Reverence. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I blame the rise of fascism in the United States

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Speaker 1: entirely on Flavor Flav. Actually, Um, I would read that

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Speaker 1: essay Robert Flavor Flav well known the backer of the

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Speaker 1: c I A. Uh So let's look, I think we

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Speaker 1: should start. If we're gonna we're gonna explain the school

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Speaker 1: of the America's and how the United States did what

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Speaker 1: is now happening in the United States to uh a

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Speaker 1: huge chunk of the world and Americans didn't pay attention.

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Speaker 1: If we want to really tell that story. We have

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Speaker 1: to go back in time almost as well. It's our

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Speaker 1: almost two centuries to eighteen twenty, you know, at that point,

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Speaker 1: and the US was only established in like or you know,

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Speaker 1: the whole Revolutionary War kicked off in seventeen seventy six,

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Speaker 1: So the US was like younger than a lot of

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Speaker 1: presidential candidates now um in in eighteen twenty three. But

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Speaker 1: it had started to get like enough power and geographic

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Speaker 1: reach that it was beginning to like look south at

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Speaker 1: what was going on in Central and South America. UM.

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Speaker 1: And you know, there were at that point all these

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Speaker 1: kind of powers, these these rates, these burgeoning nations, and

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Speaker 1: in what we call Latin America to day, we're starting

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Speaker 1: to in a really effective way, throw off kind of

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Speaker 1: the yoke of colonial oppression. They were there were a

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Speaker 1: bunch of revolutions, they were kicking out their European masters,

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Speaker 1: and kind of President Monroe, who was the guy in

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Speaker 1: charge of the US at that point, looked at all

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Speaker 1: this going on, um, and he started what came to

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Speaker 1: be known decades later as the Monroe Doctrine, where he

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Speaker 1: was basically like, hey, europe um, if you know, European

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Speaker 1: powers aren't allowed to take over any new chunks of

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Speaker 1: Latin America. Like, we the United States are not going

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Speaker 1: to stand for that. Um, this is the area that

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Speaker 1: we have influence in and you're not allowed to like

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Speaker 1: keep coming in. It was for a country that had

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Speaker 1: like just gotten the ship kicked out of it in

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Speaker 1: the War of eighteen twelve and like barely held on

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Speaker 1: it was it was it was quite a statement to make,

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Speaker 1: but it was hard for the European powers to like

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Speaker 1: get troops and shipped down to South America, so you know,

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Speaker 1: the US had a big advantage there. It was basically

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Speaker 1: like the Monroe would came to and the Monroe started

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Speaker 1: making that, like made this statement in like eighty three,

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Speaker 1: but the Monroe doctrine didn't get start to be called

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Speaker 1: the Monroe Doctrine to like eighteen fifty. But it was

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Speaker 1: basically the US saying to Europe, stay the funk out

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Speaker 1: of our backyard. And this was initially kind of like

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Speaker 1: an aspirational thing because we didn't really have the ability

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Speaker 1: to project any power down there. But over the decades,

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Speaker 1: as the United States grew into more of a functional

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Speaker 1: nation and gained more sort of military and naval power,

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Speaker 1: it became something that like we actually had the ability

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Speaker 1: to back up somewhat. So Yeah, Now, there were a

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Speaker 1: few different, big reasons why the United States felt it

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Speaker 1: was so important, you know, even as early as the

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Speaker 1: eighteen twenties to start telling Europe to stay the hell

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Speaker 1: out of Latin America. One of the reasons was that

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Speaker 1: Europeans of the mid eighteen hundreds were like they were

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Speaker 1: just the messiest bitches in the world. Um, Like, they

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Speaker 1: were constantly at war with each other, huge these huge,

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Speaker 1: terrifying what seemed like you know, like you look at

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Speaker 1: the Napoleonic wars and stuff, you look at that through

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Speaker 1: a lens of like where ship wasn't it looked like

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Speaker 1: the end of the world to a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: and these revolutions that were just horribly bloody um. And

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Speaker 1: so the monarchs in the street, there's no lawless you have.

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Speaker 1: There's like a widespread starvation at that time, right because

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Speaker 1: we're having like horrible droughts and things, and so the

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Speaker 1: lower classes all suffer. Yeah, it feels very similar. Yea,

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Speaker 1: and Napoleon is raising you know, you've got starting like

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Speaker 1: European war lords are raising, like armies that are in

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Speaker 1: the hundreds of thousands that look that are like a

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Speaker 1: significant chunk of the entire US. It just seemed like

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Speaker 1: a nightmare to a lot of Americans. UM and Europe

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Speaker 1: was just seen as such, like what they like the

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Speaker 1: the result of European squabbling and fighting was seen as

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Speaker 1: so apocalyptic that the US. There were a lot of

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Speaker 1: people in the U S who like thought about the

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Speaker 1: idea of, like, what if they start coming back to

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Speaker 1: South America and trying to make new colonies, like it

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Speaker 1: will inevitably lead to horrible, horrible wars right at our

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Speaker 1: doorstep that will pull us in. So there was there

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Speaker 1: was and that's a that was a reasonable thing at

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Speaker 1: the time to be scared at, Like the stuff that

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Speaker 1: the year the British Empire was like getting up to

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Speaker 1: all sorts of horrible bloody ship in India and Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: um in part as a result of their conflicts with

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Speaker 1: Russia at this time. UM. So like the idea that

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Speaker 1: like that that South America might become another European battleground,

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Speaker 1: like that was a real thing to be afraid of

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Speaker 1: the U S. What Like the President Monroe wasn't being

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Speaker 1: unreasonable when he was like, uh, this is we don't

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Speaker 1: want to let this happen. So there was a reasonable

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Speaker 1: reason for the Monroe doctrine. There were also like racist

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Speaker 1: reasons for it, which one of which is that like

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Speaker 1: the US didn't want any competition when it came to

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Speaker 1: politically dominating Latin America. Um. Yeah, so lots of lot

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Speaker 1: a lot of former slaves down they're just chilling right

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Speaker 1: to be recolonized. Yeah, it's not them. They have kings

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Speaker 1: and ships, so stay over there. Yeah. And there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks like the people who went on

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Speaker 1: to be like part of the Confederacy, who you know,

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Speaker 1: once upon a time, we're looking at Latin America and like, well,

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Speaker 1: eventually we're gonna have to like, that's a lot of

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Speaker 1: that's going to wind up being ours too. I Mean

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Speaker 1: it makes sense that if we think about manifest destiny

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Speaker 1: just being like we're going to conquer all of the

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry to as we beheathens. Uh. Yeah. It always

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Speaker 1: kind of surprised me that we didn't continue to go

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Speaker 1: further down south aggressive takeover. A lot of folks wanted

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Speaker 1: to um, like a lot of Americans wanted to um.

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Speaker 1: And there were even cases of like like Confederate survivors

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Speaker 1: sort of like packing up and moving down into Latin

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Speaker 1: America to establish plantations and try to keep you know,

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Speaker 1: their ship going for a while, just like similar things

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Speaker 1: actually kind of happened with the Nazis. But so time

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Speaker 1: goes by, you know, the Monroe Doctrine gets his name

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Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty. It becomes like more and more kind

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Speaker 1: of solid US policy every year, you know, the decades

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Speaker 1: go by, the United States becomes more and more of

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Speaker 1: a world power. It has a big civil war, it

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Speaker 1: has a couple of wars with Mexico, um, and by

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Speaker 1: and by, you know, time passes. The nineteen hundreds come

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Speaker 1: and the United States finds itself with a dude named

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Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelt in the Oval Office. So Teddy tr Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we all, we've all heard of Teddy, and he was

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Speaker 1: He's like, he's one of these guys that if you

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Speaker 1: if you don't think too much about aspects of what

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Speaker 1: he believed, he's a fun dude to read about. Oh man,

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Speaker 1: people love the burly back. He hunted his own bear.

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Speaker 1: And then he's like, yeah, yeah, people people love him.

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Speaker 1: If you don't think too much about what he actually believed.

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Speaker 1: I would see that drunk history is just Ron Swanson

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Speaker 1: virgin Teddy Roosevelt. That's a well and it is it

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Speaker 1: is the truth most of our If you're a white

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Speaker 1: person and you didn't talk about the things that he

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Speaker 1: believed about race, you probably could get along with Teddy

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Speaker 1: Roosevelt because he was a fun guy outside of the

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Speaker 1: horrific genocidal racism. Every history's teacher's favorite president, Like this

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Speaker 1: is going to get boys to read. Yeah. Um, but

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Speaker 1: he was also like as as hardcore and imperialist as

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Speaker 1: you can. Like, it doesn't get more imperialist than fucking

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Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelt. Um. He'd gone out of his way to

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Speaker 1: fight in a hysterically unjust war of colonial domination down

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Speaker 1: in Cuba. Um. And he's one of the reasons that

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Speaker 1: we all have owned Guantanamobe today, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: have you ever do you enjoy partly on in Guantanamobe? Joel,

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Speaker 1: I do not. It weirds me the hell out. We've

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Speaker 1: committed human atrocities there. Uh, it seems like a place America,

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Speaker 1: the land of the Free sition maybe not half I disagree.

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Speaker 1: I love the fact that we just to own part

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Speaker 1: of Cuba and use it just to torture people, and

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Speaker 1: we don't talk about it all that often. I think

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Speaker 1: it's a great thing to just forget about and just

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Speaker 1: keep doing forever. Um. I love that Obama campaigned on

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Speaker 1: getting rid of that and then just stop talking about it.

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Speaker 1: Because what a fucking cool country. So by the turn

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Speaker 1: of the twentieth century, Teddy's Teddy's the president, and the

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Speaker 1: US is like a full continental power, right like we've

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Speaker 1: we've we've achieved more or less our final form, like

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Speaker 1: you can see, like the United States is the United States,

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Speaker 1: and it's a real you don't want to you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: want to funk with her. So Roosevelt like has the

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Speaker 1: ability to project power now. And he was a big

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Speaker 1: believer in the Monroe doctrine, and more to that, he

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Speaker 1: wanted to kind of expand what the the idea behind

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Speaker 1: the Monroe doctrine because he thought the United States had

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Speaker 1: a right and a duty to act as the policeman

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Speaker 1: of the America's And I know in the early two thousands,

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Speaker 1: like we all started talking about America as like world

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Speaker 1: police um as like a bad thing. But Roosevelt would

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Speaker 1: have used those terms, and he thought it was a

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Speaker 1: good thing. He thought, it's it's what we we ought

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Speaker 1: to be doing, but not in the world, just in

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Speaker 1: our hemisphere. Oh, very reasonable man. So you know, one

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Speaker 1: of the things that Roosevelt gets concerned with is that

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Speaker 1: Venezuela is in a huge amount of debt to a

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Speaker 1: bunch of creditors in Europe, and he's worried that this

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Speaker 1: is going to lead to her being invaded by European powers,

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Speaker 1: which would destabilize Latin America and again lead to this thing.

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Speaker 1: There's not entirely unreasonable thing, because nineteen o four, if

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Speaker 1: you're at all aware of what's happening, most people know

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Speaker 1: some horrible European war is coming. So again you've got

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Speaker 1: this mix of he's an imperialist, but also he's just

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Speaker 1: kind of looking at what Europe is doing and like,

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Speaker 1: we gotta keep this ship away from as far away

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Speaker 1: from us as possible, which again, not an entirely unreasonable

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Speaker 1: thing to want to do. Okay, I guess yeah, So

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Speaker 1: he's he's he's got both these racist reasons for what

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Speaker 1: he's doing and these pretty reasonable reasons. It's a mix

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Speaker 1: of things. Uh. And in nineteen o four he issues

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Speaker 1: what's known as the Roosevelt corollary to the Monroe doctrine quote,

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Speaker 1: the United States would intervene as a last resort to

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Speaker 1: ensure that other nations in the Western Hemisphere fulfilled their

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Speaker 1: obligations to international creditors and did not violate the rights

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Speaker 1: of the United States or invite foreign aggression to the

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Speaker 1: detriment to the entire body of American nations. That's how

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Speaker 1: our own State Department summarizes it. So we're not just

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Speaker 1: the police, were also the bank. Yeah, kind of. He's like, basically,

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Speaker 1: I don't want Europe coming in here to like ensure

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Speaker 1: its own debts, so we will police and invade Latin

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Speaker 1: American nations on behalf of European powers to keep them

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Speaker 1: out of here. White nonsense. Yeah, that is some white nonsense.

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Speaker 1: And again that quote I read is from our own

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Speaker 1: State Department's Office of the Historian, and it goes on

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Speaker 1: to note quote as the corollary worked out in practice,

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Speaker 1: the United States increasingly used military force to restore internal

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Speaker 1: stability to nations in the region. Roosevelt declared that the

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Speaker 1: United States might exercise international police power in flagrant cases

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Speaker 1: of such wrongdoing or impotence. So that's very broad stability. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: remember what our state department calls stability. The people who

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Speaker 1: live in those countries might not have called stability. Just

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Speaker 1: a thing to keep in mind. So tr we we again,

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Speaker 1: we tend to think about like the stuff he did

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Speaker 1: as a person. His actual presidential policy is pretty overlooked,

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Speaker 1: in part because he's like, he's in power right before

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Speaker 1: all the cool ship century starts to happen, so like,

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Speaker 1: you know, nobody really gives a ship. Most average person

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Speaker 1: on the street about like fucking nineteen hundred and nineteen fourteen,

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Speaker 1: you know, World War One starts and people start to

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Speaker 1: get interested. But his corollary to the Monroe doctrine would

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Speaker 1: go on to become one of the most tragically influential

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Speaker 1: decisions made by a US president. More than a century later,

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Speaker 1: the United States is still operating under the logic Teddy

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Speaker 1: Roosevelt enshrined and policing large chunks of Latin America, always

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Speaker 1: in the name of internal stability, but somehow never really

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Speaker 1: helping to further that cause. Now you fast forward a

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Speaker 1: couple of residents, right, uh, so tr has his time

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Speaker 1: in the sun, and then it's nineteen twelve and this

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Speaker 1: cool cat named Woodrow Wilson is running for president UM

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Speaker 1: now Wood Drow. As part of his like election campaign,

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Speaker 1: he starts shopping around something at campaign rallies called the

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Speaker 1: Pan American Treaty UM. And his idea for the Pan

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Speaker 1: American Treaty would have been a little bit like creating

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Speaker 1: a US, like a not a U S, but an

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Speaker 1: American EU. Right, So the you've got like this continent,

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Speaker 1: all these states in it that have been independent, start

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Speaker 1: to like form common economic and trade zones and stuff

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Speaker 1: and in and in Wilson's mind, the Pan American Treaty

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Speaker 1: was going to include the United States, Argentina, Brazil, and Chile,

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Speaker 1: which were then kind of the most powerful nations in

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Speaker 1: the region. Now, I found a really good master's thesis

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Speaker 1: from a guy who's a historian now named Dr Matthew Hassett,

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Speaker 1: and he kind of summarizes the goal of the Pan

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Speaker 1: American Treaty, and I'm gonna quote from him. Now. His

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Speaker 1: plan contained two main points. The first was mutual guarantees

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Speaker 1: of political independence under republican forms of government and mutual

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Speaker 1: guarantees of territorial integrity. The second was that the signatories

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Speaker 1: to the treaty would acquire complete control within its jurisdiction

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Speaker 1: of the manufacture and sale of munitions of war. The

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Speaker 1: wording of these points is telling, and the first signatories

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Speaker 1: must guarantee the survival of republican forms of government. Wilson

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Speaker 1: believed peace and security rested on the establishment and maintenance

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Speaker 1: of liberal democracies. Memor nations would only ensure the maintenance

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Speaker 1: of republican forms of government. However, the United States would

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Speaker 1: send in the Navy and the Marines to ensure compliant governments,

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Speaker 1: regardless of how they came to power. So number one,

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Speaker 1: he's ensuring, you know, quote unquote republican forms of government,

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Speaker 1: and there's a difference between a republican government and a democracy.

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Speaker 1: Number Two, he's he's insisting that these this new political

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Speaker 1: union that he's working for, would acquire like complete control

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Speaker 1: of the manufacture, of sale and of munitions um, which

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Speaker 1: which essentially is saying like the United States and her

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Speaker 1: allies are going to have complete control of what weapons

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Speaker 1: get made and where the get distributed. That's that's the

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Speaker 1: idea as early as nineteen twelve. And well, we must

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Speaker 1: now pause here because imagine a world. It's just crazy

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Speaker 1: to me how quickly we're like Oh, I don't care

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Speaker 1: what's happening with any of the people that actually live there,

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Speaker 1: like their entire indigenous community, that there are forms of government,

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Speaker 1: and like I'm trying to imagine the braun the floors

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Speaker 1: it takes to just walk into somebody else's neighborhood, district

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Speaker 1: country and be like, no, this is how we do

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Speaker 1: things now. So also, you can only buy guns from us,

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Speaker 1: Please do each other with our weapons. And also, like

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Speaker 1: whatever indigenous concern whatever concerns you as indigenous people have,

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Speaker 1: the thing that matters most to us is making sure

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Speaker 1: that arms sales are respected and that the kind of

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Speaker 1: governments we like come to power, and we'll send our

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Speaker 1: troops in if you funk with either of those things,

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Speaker 1: which are the only things we care about in your

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Speaker 1: whole country, with whatever history it has, Like funk that ship.

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Speaker 1: We're here for selling guns and ensuring a form of

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Speaker 1: government that we can dominate. So that's cool. Wilson was

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Speaker 1: known as was what's known as a reformer imperialist. Now

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Speaker 1: that means he did reject a lot of the obvious

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Speaker 1: cruelties of European style colonialism, with like permanent and direct

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Speaker 1: military occupation of foreign lands, but he still wanted the

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Speaker 1: US to be able to loot and culturally dominate an

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Speaker 1: entire content. He was still willing to use the military

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Speaker 1: to do that. Just ask the people of Arrack Cruz. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: he framed this as simple compassion on his part. He

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Speaker 1: thought the United States should use its power to ensure

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Speaker 1: good government in nearby lands. And he never bothered to

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Speaker 1: define what good government was, but he was emphatic that

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Speaker 1: the U. S should use the basically use the Marines

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Speaker 1: to violently force Latin American governments to have what he

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Speaker 1: would consider to be good governments, which is where you

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Speaker 1: ever hear the catchphrase like sending the Marines. It's not

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Speaker 1: really used that much now, but it's like, um, deal

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Speaker 1: with a problem, right, he send in the Marines. Um.

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Speaker 1: Like it was the thing they used to say, like, well,

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Speaker 1: my grandpa was like a young man, um and it

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Speaker 1: But it comes out of this period because Wilson basically says,

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Speaker 1: if anything starts happening in these Latin American governments that

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Speaker 1: we don't approve of in the United States, will send

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Speaker 1: in the Marines to fuck them up. Um. Because the Marines,

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Speaker 1: the Marine Corps kind of like historically the people we

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Speaker 1: send in to funk up folks. Hardcore like training program

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Speaker 1: and I've yes, extremely that's a big part of it. Um.

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Speaker 1: And they like boats, which are useful for traveling places.

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Speaker 1: I've been told, so you know what is also useful

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Speaker 1: for traveling places, Joel. The products and services that support

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Speaker 1: this podcast, including our main sponsor, the United States Marine Corps.

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Speaker 1: The United States Marine Corps. Do you need some guys

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Speaker 1: on boats to funck to funk people up? Because that's

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Speaker 1: essentially the Marine Corps. They're coming and they're gonna get you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they have helicopters too, but they will just replace your president.

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Speaker 1: That's not what they're famous. Yeah, products, we're back. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: United States Marine Corps. It was a weird choice to

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Speaker 1: sponsor this podcast, but but but we appreciate it. Um.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know where to take I

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Speaker 1: don't know where else to take this joke. Woodrow Wilson

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Speaker 1: laid out his vision of the future very openly in

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Speaker 1: campaign speeches. In declaring that the United States had a

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Speaker 1: special place on the world stage as a disseminator of democracy,

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Speaker 1: he told crowds, we are chosen and prominently chosen to

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Speaker 1: show the way that to the nations of the world,

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Speaker 1: how they show walk in the paths of liberty? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Now the the guy, the historian who wrote this master's

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Speaker 1: thesis that I found. Dr Hassett argues that Wilson's dedication

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Speaker 1: to spreading democracy was real, kind of within Wilson's conception

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Speaker 1: of democracy, but it was also heavily compromised by his

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Speaker 1: outrageous racism. Um and doc Or Hassett rights, Wilson's racism

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Speaker 1: obscured his vision of a new world order. While the

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Speaker 1: president of Princeton University, Wilson successfully persuaded all African Americans

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Speaker 1: to withdraw their applications for admission. Josepha's Daniels, a wilson

430
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: campaign manager and later his secretary of the Navy, stoked

431
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 1: racial fears in East St. Louis to garner votes. Once

432
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,680
Speaker 1: in office, Wilson told darky stories and jokes during cabinet

433
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 1: meetings and presided over the segregation of the Department of

434
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 1: the Treasury, Post Office and the Bureau of Engraving. These

435
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 1: offices had been desegregated since the end of the Civil War.

436
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 1: Wilson refused to condemn the lynching of blacks, and the

437
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,720
Speaker 1: only federal actions taken regarding racial conflict was to keep

438
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: African Americans from attaining equality. So that's Wilson is the

439
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: guy who, like in nineteen twelve, expands segregation. Um, that

440
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 1: is the craziest thing, especially knowing like what's around the

441
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: corner for black people in government jobs, Like if you

442
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,120
Speaker 1: like post like nineteen fifties, early nineteen sixties, we see

443
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: a lot of black people starting to work for the

444
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 1: post Office. Like the only like quote unquote respectable job

445
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 1: you can get as black person is like doing some

446
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: type of government work. Um, usually like low level, uh

447
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 1: foot blue collar kind of stuff. I would argue that

448
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: maybe the only respectable government job that exists as the

449
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 1: post office, um and park rangers. Post office and park rangers.

450
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: What else do we really need? We love you guys, yeah,

451
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 1: so uh yeah, it's this is this is important not

452
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 1: just because like, oh, here's a story about another racist

453
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 1: American president, but because this plays directly into what Wilson

454
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 1: is thinking about what he's doing in Latin America. Because

455
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: Wilson is a guy who does believe in democracy, Like

456
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: he worked himself ill trying to push forward this vision

457
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: he had of the League of nations. And like one

458
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 1: of the problems when whenever we have someone who's terrible

459
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: and Woodrow Wilson's a horrible person, I think people tend

460
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: to just kind of write it off as that and

461
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 1: assume they don't really believe things. And Wilson is a

462
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: big believer in his what he considers to be democracy, um,

463
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: which people and in democracy it's a republic. Right, That's

464
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: a big thing for him, is it's not he's not

465
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: a fan of like this like a pure democracy. He's

466
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: like a populist democracy. Um. Wilson believes that you should

467
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: have a republic dominated by white people who are able

468
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: to direct things and act as patient stewards for their

469
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: racial inferiors. Wilson believed that democracy was the fullest form

470
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: of state life, and non white people's were not ready

471
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: to take part in that, which is why you need

472
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: a part of why you need a republic um. He

473
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: believed that they needed to undergo what he called a

474
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: period of political tool in order to know how to

475
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 1: be good democratic citizens. So this this is like very

476
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: vital information to me, Robert, because it helps me understand

477
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: like why some people still hold these beliefs, Like it's

478
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: it's hard to wrap your mind around I think. I mean,

479
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: I don't like, I'll just be for myself, like from

480
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: living in black skins, sometimes it's hard to be like, okay,

481
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: but where where is this hate rooted in? And I

482
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: understand from a larger perspective, like, Okay, you've believed that

483
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 1: because of the way history has been taught to you.

484
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 1: I know a lot of racist white people believe like, oh,

485
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 1: white people invented everything, and white people are the ones

486
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: who like colonize the world, and we made sure you

487
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 1: believed in God or like saying things, and we invented

488
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: all of the science that clearly we're like the superior race.

489
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 1: But like to hear on a governmental level, like this

490
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: idea of we can train the blackness, the part we fear,

491
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 1: the part that doesn't sit right with us, the part

492
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: that isn't like us, out of you, and then that's

493
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: like the world that will be better, Like that's how

494
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: we uplift and make the world better is by removing

495
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: It's like it's horrifying, it's so scary, Like it's because

496
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: it's happening right now. It is happening right now. And

497
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I think this is so important

498
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: to understand is that Number one, there are a lot

499
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 1: of people today who will say the same basic things

500
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: about the US and its actions and the way that

501
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: it influences and sort of changes the political course of

502
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: other nations, like like political lives right now. There's people

503
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: who will argue the same basic things Wilson will argue, Um,

504
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: they will not argue the same things domestically. And the

505
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: fact that because because you can't admit that right, you

506
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: can't sit down. You can, as an American today say hey,

507
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: like these people need to learn from us the ways

508
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: of democracy, and it's our responsibility to teach the right

509
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: like that that we fucking Afghanistan and Iraq and like

510
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: a bunch of plays all around the world, like that's

511
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: that's going on today, And there's people who will argue

512
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: forcefully for that. You can't say black people aren't ready

513
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: to be full democratic citizens and they need our tutelage

514
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: as white people, which is why we have to oppress them.

515
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 1: You can't say that openly in mainstream politics anymore. But

516
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: the fact that people argue for that in foreign countries

517
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,119
Speaker 1: shows you what they believe about the domestic situation. And

518
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: if they Yeah, looking at Woodrow Wilson, I think is

519
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: important because we see, we can see the truth of

520
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 1: what the people who believe that ship internationally are saying.

521
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 1: What they also believe domestically. They're the same as Woodrow Wilson.

522
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 1: They haven't changed. It's just not acceptable to say what

523
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: he says or what say what he used to say. Um,

524
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 1: I think that's important for people to kind of understand.

525
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: We don't. It's vital age. So Dr Hassett goes on

526
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 1: to write, quote the supposed need for a period of

527
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 1: tutelage was Wilson's method of justifying interventions in Latin America

528
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 1: and the disenfranchisement of blacks in the United States. Non

529
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: whites needed the guidance of whites, often lasting many years

530
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: until they were ready to operate autonomously in a democracy.

531
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: Of course, it was white too then decided when their

532
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 1: pupils passed their Civics courses. Yeah, probably like us. Yeah,

533
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: when when a majority. I feel like, especially if I

534
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: look at like countries like Colombia and Brazil and the

535
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: way that white passing people were sort of allowed to

536
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 1: ascend the ranks while we look at read a lot

537
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: of stories of like brown, black, indigenous former slaves talking

538
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: about like where their class system is at and how

539
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: similar almost exact actually the way it has worked in

540
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: America has fostered over there as well. This the idea

541
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: of segregation, idea of like even even the basic like

542
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: non political stuff like the idea of good hair and

543
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: who gets to be on billboards and things like that.

544
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: It is absolutely insane. Even their attempts to like d desegregate,

545
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: like to desegregate and to bring in like black people

546
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: has had like horrifyingly racist connotations. If we look at

547
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: like a lot of Spanish soaps where you're just like,

548
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: good lord, is this still where we're at representation wise?

549
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: And then sometimes I'll just slick around here too and

550
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: be like, oh, well, you know, I can, I can

551
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: complain and and maybe I get a little bit about

552
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: on my Woodrow Wilson box and be like they should

553
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: learn from us in the ways we've desegregated. Our Hollywood

554
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: system are media empire, but we haven't. We still have

555
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: so many issues here as well, and how we represent

556
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: black people. Yeah, we don't seem to be good at it.

557
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: We're good at a tear gas though gas. We know

558
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: how to beat the hell out of a protest if

559
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: you if you want entire city blocks tear gas. I

560
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: know some guys who are just pros at it at

561
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: this point. Oh my god. And now we know how

562
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: to fence off the White House, so really defense off

563
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: the White House. Yeah, we're growing anyway, So back to

564
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: back to Wilson. Let's talk about So Wilson gets elected. Uh,

565
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: this North American you know, Pan American Treaty thing gets signed.

566
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: It takes a while though, it's not signed until but yeah,

567
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: World War One happens and Wilson like, lets the US

568
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: get pulled into that cluster fuck um, And it takes

569
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: until after the war when the League of Nation gets established.

570
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: The Pan American Treaty gets signed as part of a

571
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: bunch of international League of Nations pacts, but kind of

572
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: like a lot of the rest of the League of

573
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: Nation ship, it doesn't amount to much, but the impulse

574
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: that the pact represented, this idea that the US could

575
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: could group up with the strongest nations in Latin America,

576
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: sell them arms, and use them to dictate. However, one

577
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: in the continent lived without using US troops. That idea

578
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: never like went out of vogue. In the US government, um,

579
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: up until the present day. And and just so you

580
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: know where kind of we are eventually headed in here,

581
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: it's equally popular with Republicans and Democrats. So like, no

582
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: matter where you land on this, Joe Biden loves him

583
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: some fucking we'll talk about playing Columbia maybe a little bit.

584
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: That's but yeah, so uh, World War two kind of

585
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: distracts the United States from affairs in you know, it's

586
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,719
Speaker 1: its own hemisphere for a while. We're not we're not

587
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: focusing so much on Latin America during that whole war

588
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: thing because it's you know, a lot of stuff is

589
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: going on in the other parts of the world. Um,

590
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: we have other people to kill. We have we have

591
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,719
Speaker 1: so many people to kill. Um and thankfully like some

592
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: of them deserve it, which is better than we usually do. Um. Yeah. Yeah,

593
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: World War two was the time where some of the

594
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: people we bombed from this guy deserve to die. Man,

595
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: how we have forgotten so quickly is crazy, demi So

596
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: uh yeah. It also like World War two also saw

597
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: the sudden pull out of European military advisors from a

598
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: lot of South American states because while like they hadn't

599
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: been like European colonialism never kind of in the in

600
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: the modern era, got was even vaguely on the same

601
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: levels like what happened in Africa. UM, because of the

602
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: Monroe doctrine. There were still it was still a lot

603
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: of European involvement in Latin America. They were they were

604
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: selling arms to a lot of these states, and they

605
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: would send in military advisors to train their militaries. And

606
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: it was a way both of European states kind of

607
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: projecting power, and of course it was very profitable. UM.

608
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,719
Speaker 1: And if you were in Latin America, you were an

609
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: up and coming state and you wanted to get because

610
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: there were all these wars between Latin American powers in

611
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: this period of time to constant, constant, really horrific wars.

612
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: So if you're one of these states, you have a

613
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: lot of enemies all around you, and you want to

614
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: get a jump on your opponents. UM. You you want

615
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: to be partnered with some state that has a more

616
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: advanced military, both access to better guns and access to

617
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: better sort of training UM and like military organizational techniques.

618
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: And you know, the US was certainly in a more

619
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: advanced state than a lot of Latin America at this point.

620
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: But Europe was the gold standard prior to World War Two. Um,

621
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: So a lot of these Latin American countries before World

622
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: War Two, they have like German, or French or Italian.

623
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: Unfortunately Italian you don't want them as military advisors. But

624
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: ideally you'd have like the Germans or the French or

625
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: something advising your military. Like Argentina spent about a century

626
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: using German officers to train their militaries. And actually up

627
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: until like the present day, you can find pictures of

628
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: the ship from the nineties. I don't know if it's

629
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: continued pass that you can add pictures of Argentine soldiers

630
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: giving the Fascist salute because that's how they were trained

631
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: to salute, like a lot of actually one of Hitler's

632
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: best friends, you know, best friends who Hitler then had killed.

633
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: Um this guy, uh, like the leader of the brown

634
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: Shirts went and trained Argentine soldiers while the Nazis were

635
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: in power. So like a lot of different Latin American

636
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,959
Speaker 1: states have European advisors and stuff. But by the end

637
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: of the Second World War, Europe was kind of broken

638
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: as a military power. Even the states that had won

639
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: were in ruins h France and Germany were like bled white,

640
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: and the governments of Latin America like started having needing

641
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: to look to the United States for military training and

642
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: for equipment, because the US has all the guns at

643
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: this point, and it has a huge military, It has

644
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: a lot of excess shipped to sell, it has a

645
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: lot of soldiers to send over to train them. Um,

646
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 1: and Europe just doesn't so me at the same kind

647
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: of time, while all these Latin American states are starting

648
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: like turning from Europe to the United States for advice

649
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: on how to have armies, the guys that sort of

650
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,919
Speaker 1: the top of the political establishment in the US, we're

651
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: kind of starting to realize the position the end of

652
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 1: World War Two had left them in. And you know,

653
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: everyone knows in a World War two the US is

654
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: kind of the big power in the world. But I

655
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: don't think a lot of people know how what a

656
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: dominant position we had. At the end of World War Two.

657
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: The United States was in control of fully half of

658
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: the planet's wealth. What yeah, half of the wealth in

659
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 1: the world was controlled by the United States. Um. Yeah,

660
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: like I'm trying. I mean, I guess it makes sense

661
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: if you think about like how much of the world

662
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: was like absolutely death and made it just totally fu

663
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: and how clean. Like it's always I love studying like

664
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: what was happening as we come out of World War

665
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: two culturally because the idea of like all of these

666
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: women being forced back into their homes so rapidly asked

667
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,839
Speaker 1: to reduce their status and power in not just in

668
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: like outside of their homes, not just in businesses and stuff,

669
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: but in the government too, Like we had risen up

670
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 1: to take so much power. And then this idea of

671
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 1: like black people who had come back from the war

672
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: and the way they were treated is basically like you

673
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: didn't do anything for me, and you're still just a

674
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: black person. There's so much people like there were so

675
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,760
Speaker 1: many opportunities for quick development on a social level that

676
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 1: because I think because we had money, accent and access

677
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: to guns and power and because we're really feeling ourselves, uh,

678
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: was squashed so quickly and scary to think about how

679
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: both when we are in power and when we are

680
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 1: out of power we tend to take a dumb on

681
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: everybody who isn't a white male. Yeah, it's the real

682
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: One of the real tragedies of World War two is

683
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 1: at the end of it, the US had the power

684
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: and influence to do literally anything UM. And we basically

685
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 1: chose to hoard that wealth and power and compromise every

686
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,359
Speaker 1: single thing we've ever claimed as a as a core

687
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: belief of this nation UM, in order to try to

688
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: keep it for as long as possible. And that this

689
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: kind of thinking. People talk directly about this in the

690
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 1: US government. And I'm gonna quote now from a State

691
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: Department policymaker named George Kinnon, who was one of like

692
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: the most influential minds in the US during the Cold War.

693
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: This is something George Kinnon wrote in nineteen forty eight,

694
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: and he's talking about kind of how he's talking about

695
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: U S policy in Southeast Asia at this time. But

696
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: it applies to kind of the the way that the

697
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: men in charge of our government post World War Two,

698
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: we're looking at the whole world. So this is something

699
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: George Kinnon wrote for the State Department. We have about

700
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: fifty of the world's wealth, but only six point three

701
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: percent of its population. This disparity is particularly great as

702
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: between ourselves and the peoples of Asia. In this situation,

703
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: we cannot fail to be the object of envy and resentment.

704
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 1: Our real task in the coming period is to devise

705
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain

706
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: this position of disparity without positive detriment to our national security.

707
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: To do so, we will have to dispense with all

708
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: sentimentality and daydreaming, and our attention will have to be

709
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: concentrated everywhere on our most immediate national objective. If we

710
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: need not deceive ourselves, that we can afford today the

711
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: luxury of altruism and world benefaction. Wow, just laying it

712
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 1: all out there now. Kennon was watching his nation, Like

713
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 1: the specific thing that prompted him to write this as

714
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: he was watching the United States start to flail round

715
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: in China because at this point China civil wars still

716
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: going on. We're backing, you know, the quote unquote democratic

717
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 1: sort of side of things, the Republicans or whatever, which

718
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 1: is not working out great, and we're starting like ship

719
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: in South Korea, like that's beginning kind of like we're

720
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: starting to see that like what what was called at

721
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: the time, French indo China, like a bunch of ships

722
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: going to go wrong there right, Like France is starting

723
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: to get fucked up by Vietnamese rebels and it's it's

724
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: becoming obvious to folks in the State Department that Southeast

725
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: Asia is going to be a place where the US

726
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: either has to just kind of abandon to the influence

727
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: of these quote unquote communist powers or it's going we're

728
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: gonna burn a lot of treasure in lives fighting there. Um.

729
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: So Kennon at the time is kind of specifically referring

730
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 1: to US policy in Asia. But again, the pattern of

731
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 1: thinking that he talks about up there, this idea that

732
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: the most important thing is to maintain the position of

733
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: disparity we have with the rest of the world, and

734
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: we can't we can't let ourselves. Um, you know, I'm reminded,

735
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 1: like we can't let ourselves be human, like think about

736
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: altruism and stuff. You have to think about holding onto power.

737
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: And it does make me. Um, it reminds me reading

738
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,959
Speaker 1: that of a quote from Yard Kipling's White Man's Burden. Um,

739
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: take up the white Man's burden. You dare not stoop

740
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,720
Speaker 1: to less nor call too loud on freedom to cloak

741
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 1: your weariness. Like it's the same, the same pattern of thought, right,

742
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: Like where you can't you can't let yourself what's important

743
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 1: is maintaining this position of disparity and maintaining our position

744
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 1: of power. And you can't let whatever we we claim

745
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: to believe, you can't let that matter more to you

746
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: than continuing to dominate. Um, that's it's interesting to me.

747
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: You can draw it like it's the same kind of

748
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: thinking that you see in the British Empire too. It

749
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: just got transferred over to us when we took power.

750
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: So again, this is Kennan talking about Southeast Asia, but

751
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: it's you can generalize it to a lot of how

752
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: a lot of American leaders in the late forties are

753
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: thinking about Latin America. I want to read one more

754
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: quote from George Kennon's right up there before we before

755
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: we continue on, we should cease to talk about vague

756
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: and for the Far East unreal objectives such as human rights,

757
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: the raising of the living standards, and democratization. The day

758
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: is not far off when we are going to have

759
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 1: to deal in straight power concepts. The less we are

760
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: than hampered by idealistic slogans, the better. Wow. I'm gonna

761
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: use a slogan from Don Draper and it's I have

762
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: a life and it goes in only one direction forward

763
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 1: And this whole like mentality of late forties, like needing

764
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: to not just like you have almost all of the power,

765
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 1: like that breakdown a fifty of the wealth to six

766
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: percent of the population ideology that like we have to

767
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: continue to build on that. But why would you? How

768
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 1: could you possibly need to build like that? Is the

769
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: most mind fucked thing ever. I can't imagine being like, oh,

770
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: I have fifty of everything, how do I get more?

771
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: Like yeah, and and and like the idea that like

772
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: we have to immediately discard our beliefs about democracy and

773
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 1: human rights in order to maintain the power that we

774
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: currently holdings more important than the power. Yeah, and again,

775
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: this isn't the period after which like kind of America,

776
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 1: Like I think a lot of people who looking at

777
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: the story, I think that like America's like idealism was

778
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: broken by Vietnam. This is nineteen forty eight, right, we

779
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 1: It wasn't like the Cold War wasn't even like really

780
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,280
Speaker 1: up to what it would become like there was still

781
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 1: like World War two had just ended. Fascism have just

782
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 1: been beated, and immediately were like, well nothing matters more

783
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,439
Speaker 1: than keeping all this money that we've got. Funck human rights.

784
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: That's the people in those influential folks in the State

785
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 1: Department are saying this ship. So again, Kennan was writing

786
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: about Southeast Asia there, but you really can generalize what

787
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 1: he's saying to what a lot of US State Department

788
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: and in sort of military thinkers in Latin America belief.

789
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: These people supported straight power, and they found themselves kind

790
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 1: of discarding unrealistic objectives like human rights because straight power

791
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: is they thought that they would have claimed that it's

792
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: more realistic. It's really that it's just easier. It's easier

793
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: to shoot people than to try to improve their material conditions, um,

794
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 1: even though improving their material conditions probably does cost lesson

795
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: as a general rule. So the school of the America's

796
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: became this thing that we're talking about today. The actual

797
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 1: focus of our article was what became these men's kind

798
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: of the lynchpin in their plan to do that in

799
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: Latin America. UM. And it's also sort of a It

800
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 1: acted as kind of a fulfillment of Woodrow Wilson's dream

801
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: the United States being able to act as a police

802
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:37,320
Speaker 1: force for Latin America to ensure good what we would

803
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: consider good governance. So the US spens the first few

804
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: years after World War two kind of rebuilding Europe and

805
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 1: starting to sunk around in Asia, and there wasn't a

806
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: lot of military manpower to spare in Latin America. So

807
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: the decision was made to do something more subtle than

808
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: the Pentagon traditionally, did you know, rather than just like

809
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: sending in troops and like building bases. In nineteen forty six,

810
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: the Army established a new training school for foreign soldiers

811
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: in the Panama Canal zone, which is still under US

812
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 1: control right Panama. The Panama Canal is like owned by

813
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 1: the United States at this point, and it's it's not

814
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: its own independent thing. Our government is basically like it's

815
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: a little US outpost in Latin America. And so they

816
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: build a new school there to train officers from all

817
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 1: around Latin America. And they call it the Latin American

818
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: Training Center ground Division. And at this point Ground Division

819
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: is just kind of like what I'm going to call

820
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,439
Speaker 1: the schools. This is what it's named before. It's called

821
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: the School of the America's. So in nineteen forty seven,

822
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 1: the United States had signed the Rio Treaty with twenty

823
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: different Latin American nations. Now, this was kind of an

824
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: expansion of a lot of the ideas that Wilson had

825
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: had back in nineteen twelve. It was a mutual defense

826
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: pact meant on paper to provide a unified hemispheric front

827
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: against like a foreign invasion. Um, this was all window dressing.

828
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: The real agenda of the treaty had nothing to do

829
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: with mutual defense for the hemisphere and everything to do

830
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: with the maintenance of US political dominance in the region

831
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: and control over raw material. And I'm gonna quote now

832
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 1: from a book, a really good book called The School

833
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: of the Americas by Leslie Gill. Quote, Well, the United

834
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: States dedicated itself to containing the global expansion of the

835
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: Soviet Union and persecuted domestic critics with varying degrees of intensity.

836
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: It assigned its Latin American allies the task of guarding

837
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: against the threat post by internal subversion. National Security Doctrine

838
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: n s D provided the broad rationale for fighting communists

839
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,320
Speaker 1: by assigning the maintenance of internal order to Latin American

840
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: security forces and by delegating to the United States the

841
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 1: task of guarding the ramparts of the Western hemisphere from

842
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: external aggression. So you see what what's what's being done here,

843
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: This is being framed as like we need to protect

844
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,320
Speaker 1: our hemisphere from like a Soviet invasion. What's really happening

845
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: is the US so because it doesn't have a lot

846
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: of troops to spare at the moment, is setting up,

847
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: arming and training Latin American national militaries to act as

848
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 1: internal security forces to keep communism out of Latin America.

849
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: That's what's being done here. We're building a continental police

850
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 1: force to enforce American political ideology on an entire continent.

851
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 1: When the school, like when the school opens, right, and

852
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: there's this because I'm trying to picture like the type

853
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 1: of person that goes into this, like I know, the

854
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: type of person who believes they can go into the

855
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: police force and change it and make it a force

856
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: in a space for good. Very normal soldiers at first,

857
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: so initially and this is like you hear a lot

858
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: of folks on the left on like Twitter and stuff

859
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 1: talk about the School of the Americas, and generally most

860
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 1: of what they talk about is stuff that happened kind

861
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: of later on when there was and we'll talk about

862
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: like all the torture classes and ship that happened, But

863
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: that wasn't how it started. It started as very normal

864
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: military training. It's first class was a bunch of Argentine

865
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 1: soldiers who were being taught to use US anti aircraft

866
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,240
Speaker 1: guns that their nation had just been allowed to purchase.

867
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: So it was not there's nothing really shady there, right, Like,

868
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: they buy these advanced weapons from the US that are

869
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: primarily defensive in nature, and they need to be trained

870
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: in how to use them. Um so the actual classes,

871
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 1: the goal of the ground school at first, there's nothing

872
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 1: really you wouldn't call that shady, right, Like, that's a

873
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: reasonable thing to do if you believe selling arms as

874
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: reasonable as reasonable We're like, oh, yeah, you should train

875
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: them how to use the guns. Okay, that's fine. And

876
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 1: the most dangerous thing that's going on here is not

877
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,839
Speaker 1: the actual curriculum of the school. It's what's happening around

878
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 1: that curriculum. But yeah, we'll we'll talk about that in

879
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:22,919
Speaker 1: a little bit. I want to quote something Leslie gil

880
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: writes here about sort of what the defense industry is

881
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 1: starting to do in Latin America in this period. Quote,

882
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: defense manufacturers sought out new markets for their wears, and

883
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: Congress created generous military aid programs facilitating arms transfers not

884
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: only helped secure US access to raw materials and the

885
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: general cooperation of regional militaries. It also tied Latin American

886
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: militaries to the use unless the continued purchase of technology

887
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: produced in the United States. The Defense Establishment referred to

888
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 1: the ladder as standardizing Latin American militaries. Yeah, and the

889
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: Caribbean Defense Commander put up bluntly when he stated that

890
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: standardizing Latin American armies with US equipment further the quote

891
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 1: penetration of the United States and the military system of

892
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: any countries, so that such nation becomes dependent on us.

893
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: What's but you can standardize the equipment that they use,

894
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: and then you make them dependent on you. They can't

895
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: fight you, they can't rebel against you, they can't resist

896
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: you if they need your factories to produce the weaponry

897
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: that allows them to defend themselves from their neighbors. This

898
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: is devious as hell. Yes, it's extremely insidious, because now

899
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: we also know everything you have. We knows and can

900
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: advance our ship before we give you access to the

901
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: advanced ships. We're always one step ahead. Oh my god. Yeah,

902
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on here. U s weapons were

903
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: again considered the most advanced on the planet at the time,

904
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 1: and Latin American militaries were very much comparatively technologically backwards

905
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 1: compared to the United States. In this period, a lot

906
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: of them had recently been at war with each other,

907
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: so there was really very reasonable fear of invasion, of

908
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 1: losing territory. It had just happened for a lot of them. Um.

909
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: So there says understanding that number one, you can defend yourself,

910
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: you can gain massive local advantages by buying US guns.

911
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: But it also on the U s side, it gives

912
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: us this permanent influence in national politics because the ammunition

913
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: that these weapons need, the parts that they need, the training,

914
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 1: their reliant on the United States for all of that.

915
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,760
Speaker 1: But the thing that was truly insidious about the Ground

916
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 1: School had nothing to do with weaponry and everything to

917
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: do with what I would consider to be the deadliest

918
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: fantasy in human history, probably the American Dream. And that's

919
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 1: what we're going to talk about after we get back

920
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: from the real American dream, which is products and services. Yeah, right,

921
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: let's do it. Buy some things, buy some things products.

922
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: All right, we're back, and we're talking about the thing

923
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 1: that was most dangerous about the American School. And this

924
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: is the thing that everybody I see talking about this

925
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: ship on Twitter, like really does seem to miss which

926
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: is not that, Like they're not wrong about the torture

927
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: programs being awful and like everything else we're going to

928
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 1: talk about, but I don't see this being referenced and

929
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: something that strikes the hope of having a dollar and

930
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: a dream. Yeah, this is what and this is this

931
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 1: is really fascinating to me. So in the late nineteen

932
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: forties and fifties, right, the US winds up after the

933
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: war with all of the money in the fucking world,

934
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: and this leads to an unprecedented explosion in like the

935
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:27,479
Speaker 1: rates of home ownership, vehicle ownership, employment, job security, regular people.

936
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: Suddenly we're gaining access to labor saving devices like washing

937
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 1: machines and dishwashers, luxury products like television. It was a

938
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: it was a heady period of time, and it it

939
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: was easy to kind of when you see regular working

940
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: people making these kinds of gains, it's easy for the

941
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: propaganda of like this is because there's something special and

942
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: beautiful about this, this dream America has what life can be.

943
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: It's very easy to sell that when you've got because

944
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 1: this is a period you do have to like obviously

945
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 1: the benefits in this period weren't evenly shared, but like

946
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 1: black people, you know, made a lot of like wealth

947
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:04,760
Speaker 1: improvements and stuff in this too. Everybody did. It wasn't

948
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,760
Speaker 1: evenly distributed. But you can look at damn near anybody

949
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: in the United States who's working class in like the

950
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 1: late forties, early fifties and be like, God, damn, there

951
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: might be something to this us, this American dream thing, um.

952
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: And the rest of the world isn't benefiting from that, right, Um.

953
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: But they're look, they're they're able to look in from

954
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: the outside and they're able to see what's happening in

955
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,959
Speaker 1: the United States. And the soldiers who are being sent

956
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 1: from other Latin American countries to Panama to partake in

957
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:37,280
Speaker 1: the ground school, because Panama is run by the United States,

958
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 1: they get to live in that world for a brief

959
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: period of time. These students, most of whom had come

960
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: from lower middle class families and very very poor nations,

961
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: are able to get a glimpse into the American way

962
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: of life. Um. They're they're they're getting paid money, they're

963
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,479
Speaker 1: getting they're able to buy American products, and so they're there.

964
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 1: They kind of get get a taste of what American

965
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: are enjoying in the late forties and early fifties. So

966
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: in the in the Ground School starts to offer a

967
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: special training program for Argentine officers and enlisted men that

968
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 1: mixed technical training with what Leslie Gill calls cultural persuasion.

969
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 1: The U. S Army officials at the Ground School wanted

970
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: badly to make a good impression on the Argentines, who

971
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 1: would broadly lean towards the axis during the war. Because remember,

972
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 1: Germany had taught their army a lot, a bunch of stuff.

973
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 1: So as Argentina was one of the great powers of

974
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 1: Latin America, gaining their trust successfully, you know, and drawing

975
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 1: them into the bosom of US power was seen as

976
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 1: a really important thing to do. Um. It was a

977
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: critical step and kind of locking down the continent in

978
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: the whole hemisphere quote from leslie Guilt. They dwelled on

979
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: every aspect of the training program, they being the US trainers,

980
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 1: which they believed carried considerable symbolic weight for the United States.

981
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: One individual effused that it is no exaggeration to state

982
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: that the cooperation and the solidarity of the Western Hemisphere

983
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,319
Speaker 1: nations depends to a great degree upon the impressions which

984
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 1: the Argentine personnel take back with them to their native country.

985
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 1: Army officers described the Argentines as extremely high type personnel

986
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 1: who are probably well qualified. They told everyone who interacted

987
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: with them to learn the customs of the Argentine Army

988
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:14,240
Speaker 1: and to recognize the insignia used to designate particular ranks.

989
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 1: Most importantly, the officials advised course instructors from the fifty

990
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: six Anti Aircraft Artillery Group to instill among the trainees

991
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: faith in the weapons, and in this way to draw

992
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:27,280
Speaker 1: a connection between the powerful weapons in the United States.

993
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: They asserted that if the Argentines had confidence in the weapons,

994
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 1: they would have confidence in the United States, and this

995
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,479
Speaker 1: confidence would spread when the Argentines returned home and taught

996
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: others to use the guns. Building confidence in the United

997
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,600
Speaker 1: States was a complex undertaking that involved much more than

998
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:47,319
Speaker 1: impressive weaponry. The Argentine trainees held strong opinions about their

999
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 1: national and racial superiority visa the other Latin Americans, and

1000
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: these views did not go unappreciated by their North American hosts.

1001
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 1: So fortunately for this whole dream of getting Argentina on

1002
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 1: the U S A side. If there's one thing you

1003
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 1: could rely on US military planners in Night to know

1004
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: how to do, it was how to be super fucking racist.

1005
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 1: So officers at the Ground School wrote that it was essential,

1006
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 1: in view of the nationalistic feelings of the Argentine and

1007
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,919
Speaker 1: their belief in certain racial theories, that they be made

1008
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: to feel they enjoy equal privileges with American officers and

1009
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: enlisted men. Like most places in the American Empire, the

1010
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,760
Speaker 1: Ground School and Panama was was pretty segregated. White American

1011
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: soldiers ate better food, lived in better dorms, and enjoyed

1012
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: higher standards of comfort than their Latin American students. Uh

1013
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: So they start issuing the Argentine soldiers passes that distinguished

1014
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 1: them from other Latin American students at the Ground School

1015
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 1: and grant them privileges such as special food rights, exemption

1016
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,720
Speaker 1: from maintenance duties carried out by darker skinned Latin Americans.

1017
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 1: And you know, obviously the US military and Panama has

1018
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 1: kind of its own racial theories. Um. They believe that

1019
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 1: like white suffered more from prolonged exposure to intense heat

1020
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 1: and humidity than than other people's, were more susceptible to

1021
00:53:55,640 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 1: certain diseases. Um, yeah, so I laugh because racism is

1022
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: so easy, Like I get it, Like we we've I've

1023
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 1: been talking a lot about racism. I write about you know,

1024
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 1: black representation in media and this, Like it's so davidly

1025
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: easy to see, like the comfort racism provides, Like my

1026
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 1: skin is so fair? How can I possibly do the

1027
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: labor this person is to look at their dark skin

1028
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: and the side right off of it, this is where

1029
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 1: you belong. And you know, the idea that we essentially

1030
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 1: brainwashed people to believe that, like if we think about you,

1031
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: the way that the way racism separates and divides makes

1032
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 1: it nearly impossible to come together and have those conversations

1033
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: that allow you as like a community to grow and develop.

1034
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: So this idea of like, oh, make sure the lighter

1035
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:52,239
Speaker 1: skin like Latin Americans understand that they're better, so that

1036
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: as a country they can never will always be unrest

1037
00:54:55,360 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 1: in that space that is so sick. Yeah, it's really

1038
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 1: fucked up. Um, And there's this, there's this, So what's

1039
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: happening there is like white people kind of believed had

1040
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 1: been like dark skinned people in Latin America and the

1041
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: Canal Zone had been doing all the physical labor because

1042
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 1: of this belief that like white people like they just

1043
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 1: weren't weren't as suited to hard labor. And we we

1044
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 1: add the Argentinean soldiers in like we treat them as

1045
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 1: white people as part of a propaganda campaign to kind

1046
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 1: of get the number one, to separate them from other

1047
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 1: Latin Americans further, um, and to kind of get them

1048
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 1: on our side. Um. So there's this kind of immediate

1049
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,760
Speaker 1: willingness to like start racially playing the people's of Latin

1050
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:38,440
Speaker 1: America against each other. Um. Now yeah, so this is

1051
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: this is uh has a big impact on Argentinian soldiers,

1052
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 1: and it provides them with a taste of the American

1053
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 1: way of life, a sample of what it's like to

1054
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 1: be a white American um. And this meshes well with

1055
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:51,600
Speaker 1: kind of the other tastes they were offered at the

1056
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 1: ground school. Students were paid to attend, and as Panama

1057
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 1: was under you as control, it's a place where they

1058
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,400
Speaker 1: could buy a lot of consumer goods. This included a

1059
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: lot of labor saving devices and luxury products that would

1060
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: have been unavailable back in these students home countries, things

1061
00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 1: like laundry machines and dishwashers and blenders in the late

1062
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:08,960
Speaker 1: forties and early fifties. A lot of this stuff was

1063
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 1: was just kind of like magic to many of these

1064
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,320
Speaker 1: soldiers coming into the Canal Zone, and the fact that

1065
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,440
Speaker 1: they could buy this stuff. Now when we're being like

1066
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 1: able to kind of participate in this this racially segregated

1067
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 1: society on the top of it for a period of time,

1068
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: not only does it reinforce the idea in their mind

1069
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 1: that the US is this kind of all powerful utopia,

1070
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: but it lets them feel like they're a part of it.

1071
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 1: Um And yeah, so that's that's a big aspect of

1072
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 1: what the American you know, at this point called the

1073
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 1: ground school is trying to do with these solds. To

1074
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 1: be fair, though, Robert, I still find washing machines and

1075
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 1: dishwashers to be magical. I hate them, not a fan.

1076
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 1: Not a fan. Well, I like washing machines, I don't

1077
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: like dishwashers. So, uh, school instructors worked hard to keep

1078
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: their students occupied constantly with very little unstructured downtime, and

1079
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 1: this too was part of the grander strategy Leslie Gill

1080
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: right quote. They did so for two reasons. First, they

1081
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: hope to convey to the students a particular vision of U.

1082
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 1: S citizens is industrious and successful. Second, they wanted to

1083
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: keep students in the canal zone and out of Panama.

1084
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:13,760
Speaker 1: Officials worried that disorders created by students, such as public drunkenness,

1085
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 1: expressions of immorality, or fights, would provoke the ire of

1086
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 1: Panamanian authorities and cause of public relations difficulty for the

1087
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: US military. The Commandant did not mince words when he

1088
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 1: told a group of staff officers that in addition to

1089
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: taking care of these people and making them welcome and

1090
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: happy while here, they must be kept busy, organize their instructions,

1091
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 1: make the schedule so that they do not have too

1092
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: much free time, give them organized athletics that they will

1093
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 1: stay in the zone and out of Panama. They are

1094
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:38,959
Speaker 1: here to learn the equipment and technique. They must carry

1095
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 1: with them the impression that this is the way we

1096
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:44,440
Speaker 1: work and why we are a great nation. So again,

1097
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 1: this is all there's there's there's this kind of basic

1098
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 1: military training going on, but there's also this much deeper

1099
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: cultural training and what what the United States is and

1100
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: kind of us pushing like this is what your country

1101
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: should be. Um. This reminds me a lot of the vow.

1102
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys are Yeah, there's not

1103
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: enough set about that. Yeah, you're very like yeah, the

1104
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 1: brainwashing the way like a lot of the way they

1105
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 1: treat them like children. This idea of like, oh no,

1106
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 1: the devil and I don't mind, is the devil's workshop,

1107
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 1: Like make sure they're they're kept busy, because who knows

1108
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: what they'll get up to on their own devices. Like

1109
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 1: that wasn't, at least from what I just heard. It

1110
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:23,040
Speaker 1: wasn't based off of like, oh, these are like young

1111
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 1: kids who are getting rowdy, Let's give them something constructive

1112
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,959
Speaker 1: to do. It's like they might embarrass us, so let's

1113
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: make sure they stay under our thumb. Like yeah, so

1114
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: much of racism is infantilization of a people, and I

1115
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: it's yeah, yeah, there's a lot going on here. So

1116
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 1: for more than a decade, this kind of goes on,

1117
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: and the ground school quietly trains hundreds and then eventually

1118
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 1: thousands of soldiers from not just Argentina, but Guatemala, Chula

1119
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 1: and a bunch of other countries in Latin America, and

1120
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 1: these men walked away from their months. It was often

1121
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: like a year long course in Panama with more than

1122
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 1: just an expanded understanding of US weapon rate. They left

1123
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 1: with deep and personal knowledge of the wonders of American culture,

1124
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: American capitalism, the benefits that it could bring. And they

1125
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: they walked away in a lot of cases, with an understanding,

1126
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: a personal, brief and fleeting understanding of how good it

1127
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 1: felt to be a winner in that society. So these

1128
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 1: young ambitious men get this taste of America at its height,

1129
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 1: and then they go home to their own nations, which

1130
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: much must have felt like crude backwaters by comparison, there's

1131
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 1: not a lot of luxury goods and appliances to buy.

1132
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 1: People don't work in the same way like this capitalism

1133
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,280
Speaker 1: thing that has taken over the whole world now hadn't yet.

1134
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 1: And it's this kind of like what what's one of

1135
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 1: the things that a lot of Latin American cultures are

1136
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 1: known for, you know, really really um putting a lot

1137
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: of emphasis on this idea of like a siesta or whatever,

1138
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 1: Like you don't always work all the time. There's like, culturally,

1139
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: you build in periods of rest because it's healthy to

1140
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 1: rest even in like the middle of the day. We

1141
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 1: don't fucking do that in America. We drink coffee so

1142
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 1: that you can work through you know, a sixteen hour shift. Right.

1143
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: So these guys, these these young ambitious men, get a

1144
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 1: taste of you know, American main manic work culture and

1145
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 1: the kind of the kind of benefits that it can

1146
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: bring in terms of like the things you get to

1147
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 1: own when you partake in it and succeed. And then

1148
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 1: they go home to these countries where like people don't

1149
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 1: have the same attitude towards work and don't have access

1150
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: to a lot of the same luxury goods and appliances,

1151
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 1: and they draw connections between all this stuff, and they

1152
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 1: start to they start to place blame on segments of

1153
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 1: their society for why they don't get to enjoy the

1154
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: same things they enjoyed, you know, in the Panama Zone,

1155
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 1: including the fact that indigenous cultures in these regions valued

1156
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 1: leisure and community over relentless capitalism um, and including the

1157
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 1: fact that there were a lot of left wing movements

1158
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 1: who were arguing that like things should be nationalized rather

1159
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 1: than this kind of free for all Lasi fairship that

1160
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 1: the US really wanted to push in all these Latin

1161
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 1: American countries because it benefited larger and already established American corporations.

1162
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: So not only you know, they're frustrated when they come back,

1163
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,120
Speaker 1: and they also have a ready group of people than

1164
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: their own countries to blame for the fact that things

1165
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 1: aren't the way they want them to be at home

1166
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 1: now that they know how, you know, things are in

1167
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 1: the United States. So a lot of these soldiers, you know,

1168
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 1: they would finish their time in their respective militaries after

1169
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 1: going to the ground school, and they go on and

1170
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 1: do something else. But a significant number of them went

1171
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 1: on to be career officers, and since training at the

1172
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 1: ground school was prestigious, they often rose high in the

1173
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 1: ranks of their national militaries. As the fifties rolled along,

1174
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 1: there were a series of left wing revolutions in Latin America.

1175
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty two, Bolivia had a left wing coup,

1176
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 1: you know, kind of socialisty that brought in a new

1177
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 1: government that was dead set on nationalizing every mine in

1178
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:40,960
Speaker 1: the country, which at that point we're basically owned by

1179
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 1: a bunch of US based corporations. Then, of course there's

1180
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 1: the Cuban Revolution of nineteen fifty nine, which brought that

1181
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 1: bearded heart throb Castro, you know, into the hearts and

1182
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:53,920
Speaker 1: minds of everybody, um. And then kind of it seems

1183
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 1: like in the early fifties, the left is on the

1184
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 1: rise in Latin America. UM. And it was in the

1185
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 1: eyes of a lot of these officers who have been

1186
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 1: thoroughly if you know, you compared you compared it earlier

1187
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 1: to a cult. They've been thoroughly enraptured by the cult

1188
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: of the American way of life. It seems like these

1189
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 1: these left wing movements are hell bent on stopping Latin

1190
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 1: America from ever achieving that same dream. So the US

1191
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 1: government gets caught off guard by all of these revolutions,

1192
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 1: as it generally is, by everything that happens uh and

1193
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 1: Latin America like they saw it as basically our property.

1194
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 1: And suddenly, like the Russians are parking nuclear missiles in

1195
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 1: Cuba seventy miles off the Florida coast. So US officials

1196
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: kind of panic and they're afraid that they might start

1197
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 1: to lose the whole region to this new wave of

1198
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 1: left wing politicians. The prevailing kind of political wisdom at

1199
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:41,600
Speaker 1: the time was something called the Domino theory, which stated

1200
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 1: the fall of one nation to communism would start this

1201
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 1: like horrible chain reaction would doom the whole continent, because yeah, yeah,

1202
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 1: and there's no way that people could be like, what

1203
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 1: have we just had free healthcare and we didn't let

1204
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 1: random foreign companies own everything in the country, And it's like, no,

1205
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 1: that the only that only leads to identical things, to

1206
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 1: Stalinism and Maoism. You could you couldn't just do that

1207
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 1: and then keep just like whatever. It's a very frustrating

1208
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: idea that people have. So the US, like Panics, as

1209
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:13,160
Speaker 1: these revolutions start to take hold and they start turning

1210
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 1: to this network they have in Latin America of all

1211
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 1: of these military officers who are dedicated pro US capitalists

1212
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:23,120
Speaker 1: just kind of waiting in the wings, furious at these

1213
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 1: damn commies who are like pulling their people away from

1214
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: the promised land of being able to buy washing machines.

1215
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 1: So by the time the Cuban Revolution succeeded, nearly about

1216
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 1: eight thousand students had graduated the ground school, and these

1217
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 1: guys were a good start, But Washington realized that kind

1218
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 1: of the revolutions sweeping Latin America were of such a

1219
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:42,120
Speaker 1: scope that they were gonna need a lot more than

1220
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 1: eight thousand dudes to put a lid on all of this. Now,

1221
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 1: President Kennedy is the guy who issued orders for the

1222
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:53,439
Speaker 1: Ground School to start training students in counter insurgency. US

1223
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 1: Special Forces were sent to the Ground School and they

1224
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,440
Speaker 1: start teaching courses and traveling around to these countries too

1225
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 1: and teaching people. And you the exact nature of the

1226
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:05,320
Speaker 1: counter terrorism courses that start getting counterinsurgency courses that start

1227
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: getting taught after Kennedy gives the order. UM Professor Michael

1228
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 1: McClintock describes them as the legitimization of state terrorism as

1229
01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:15,680
Speaker 1: a means to confront the sinse subversion and insurgency. And

1230
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 1: that's really what's. Yeah, the we start backing state terrorism

1231
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:23,040
Speaker 1: in order to stop left wing politics in Latin America.

1232
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: That's what happens in this period. And that's again people

1233
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 1: accusing me of like going after the right wing. That's JFK. Like,

1234
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 1: let's just keep that all in mind. That that's sucking JFK.

1235
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 1: Who does this, right? Um, So, in nineteen sixty three

1236
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 1: they change the name of the Ground School to the

1237
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 1: School of the America's that's when that that alteration happens,

1238
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 1: and this new name kind of reflected its expanded role

1239
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:46,440
Speaker 1: as a tool in the hands of the US government.

1240
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:48,880
Speaker 1: So in nineteen sixty seven, just a couple of years later,

1241
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 1: that's when che Guevara, who had kind of gotten his

1242
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 1: start as acute like fighting with Castro, launches a guerrilla

1243
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 1: campaign and Southeast Bolivia. Uh, and the School of the

1244
01:04:57,720 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: America's you know, had started kind years before this a

1245
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 1: is left wing sort of militancy, and Bolivia had grown

1246
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 1: they started taking in more and more Bolivian students. Um.

1247
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: And so it was US trained soldiers who captured she

1248
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:13,600
Speaker 1: Guavara shortly after his arrival in the country. Um. And

1249
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: you know, once he was captured, the U s forces,

1250
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 1: like who were kind of actually embedded there, actually wanted

1251
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:23,360
Speaker 1: him at least a lot most of the stories you'll here,

1252
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:25,080
Speaker 1: like wanted him to just kind of be taken into

1253
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:27,000
Speaker 1: custody because they thought that killing him would turn him

1254
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:28,560
Speaker 1: into a global martyr who had his face on a

1255
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: bunch of T shirts and music festivals for decades. Um.

1256
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: But the soldiers we'd trained were like, no, let's just

1257
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:37,840
Speaker 1: murder him. So they murder him, and yeah, now he's

1258
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 1: he's on all sorts of T shirts. Um. Yeah, yeah, Well,

1259
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 1: I mean I mean, and you know, I'm not a

1260
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 1: big fan of schet, but it clearly like one of

1261
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 1: the things that's funny to me is that you've got

1262
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:53,520
Speaker 1: some of the guys who were some of the US

1263
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:56,320
Speaker 1: guys who were in the field instructing these troops are

1264
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 1: smart enough to recognize what's going to happen if, say,

1265
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 1: gets executed, But the actual soldiers in charge, these Latin

1266
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 1: American officers had learned so well from the United States

1267
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: who was doing nothing in this period but creating martyrs,

1268
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 1: that they like, they can't even listen to the direct

1269
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 1: advice in the field because they've been inculcated in this

1270
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 1: US style of thinking that that that yeah, they just

1271
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:20,600
Speaker 1: murder this guy. It's very funny. So yeah, by opening

1272
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 1: up more slots in the school of the America's to

1273
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,680
Speaker 1: students of a different nation, the US was able to

1274
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 1: kind of modulate like which countries got floods of these

1275
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 1: motivated far right um military officers who were willing to

1276
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: like take power and execute camp basically act as death

1277
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 1: squads against leftists. So they do that in Bolivia, right,

1278
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 1: which is a big part of like why ship what

1279
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 1: she's doing there doesn't work as the US had already

1280
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:50,800
Speaker 1: flooded Bolivia with these trained and uh motivated um kind

1281
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 1: of right wing idealogue soldiers. UM. And we do that

1282
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 1: in every country that we start to see the left

1283
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 1: wing take offense. So in nineteen in the nineteen sixties,

1284
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 1: that chill lay in left wing starts to organize and

1285
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 1: gain political power um, led by a charismatic socialist named

1286
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 1: Salvador Allende UM and one of one of you know

1287
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:10,680
Speaker 1: for an understanding who a end was he was. He

1288
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 1: was a big backer of better educational policy. He wanted

1289
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 1: better education for like indigenous people, poor people in in

1290
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 1: in Chile. He want a monster pay for this by

1291
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 1: nationalizing a lot of the different resources in Chile because

1292
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 1: like corrupt politicians prior to him had made these very

1293
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 1: much illegal deals with US companies that basically gave them

1294
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 1: all of Chile's resources for for nothing. UM. So he

1295
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:36,440
Speaker 1: was like, well, let's stop that ship. Let's use the

1296
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 1: money from the resources that we have in our country

1297
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 1: to make life better for our people. And a bunch

1298
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 1: of Americans with financial interest in stealing Chile's resources are like, oh,

1299
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 1: that doesn't seem like a good idea. UM. And so

1300
01:07:47,880 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 1: in the early late fifties early sixties, the School of

1301
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:53,360
Speaker 1: America starts taking in more Chilean soldiers under the guys

1302
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:55,640
Speaker 1: that will train them how to be more effective soldiers.

1303
01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:58,640
Speaker 1: And we'll also teach them about how salvadorai Ende and

1304
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 1: everybody like him need be fucking murdered. Um. So yeah,

1305
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:06,840
Speaker 1: this again starts under the Kennedy administration. Um. But you know,

1306
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 1: as as the whole Kennedy thing doesn't work out so well,

1307
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 1: things actually do work out for a while for the

1308
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 1: Chilean Left. Something happen. Yeah, Bernard Montgomery Sanders made a

1309
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 1: couple of key decisions there. So as the as the

1310
01:08:19,080 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 1: Chilean Left begins to win more victories, they start kind

1311
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:25,280
Speaker 1: of quietly inviting the U S starts quietly inviting more

1312
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 1: and more Chilean soldiers into the School of the America's um,

1313
01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,519
Speaker 1: and in fact, more Chilean soldiers trained at the School

1314
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 1: of the Americas than soldiers from any other country during

1315
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies. Between nineteen seventy and nineteen seventy five.

1316
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 1: I have a quick question, are they like I know

1317
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 1: that the job like when if you graduate from school,

1318
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 1: you're more luckily to get a job. That's higher up

1319
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:46,439
Speaker 1: in the ranks, which probably means more money. But is

1320
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:50,720
Speaker 1: there other financial incentives from going to the school that

1321
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:54,400
Speaker 1: like allow these people to maintain their power like or

1322
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 1: is there proper strictly come from their training. It gets

1323
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 1: them better positions, which gives them con troll of more

1324
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:03,559
Speaker 1: and more men and higher numbers of their men are

1325
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 1: also trained at these schools, and they don't get money

1326
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 1: directly from that, but the fact that they're in this

1327
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 1: position means that suddenly there's this opportunity to Hey, if

1328
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:15,840
Speaker 1: we take over, right, we have all the guns, we

1329
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:19,200
Speaker 1: have the millet, we are the military. If we take over, well,

1330
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:21,599
Speaker 1: then we can get all that money for ourselves and

1331
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:25,040
Speaker 1: we can personally start to enjoy the benefits of this

1332
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 1: like this, this lucrative American life, Like we can get

1333
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:31,400
Speaker 1: rich like that. That can happen for us if we

1334
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 1: take over the country. If we stop these resources from

1335
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 1: being nationalized and going to all of the people, we

1336
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 1: can just sell them, access to them to the United

1337
01:09:39,360 --> 01:09:41,599
Speaker 1: States and get this ship for ourselves. This is happening

1338
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:43,759
Speaker 1: all over Latin America. That that's why all these people

1339
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 1: get fucking rich. A lot of them do, like when

1340
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 1: they when they do their coups is because like they

1341
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 1: take over the country and then they get to sit

1342
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 1: down with all these corporations who had backed the overthrows

1343
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:56,639
Speaker 1: of the governments in these nations and say like, hey,

1344
01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:58,559
Speaker 1: we can keep this ship flowing to you, but like

1345
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 1: daddy needs a little cut, and it's cheaper to you

1346
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,920
Speaker 1: than giving than the entire nation getting a cut, because

1347
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 1: all you gotta do is help me and my buddies out.

1348
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:09,599
Speaker 1: But yes, there that's the financial incentive. And a lot

1349
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 1: of these guys, by the way, the ones who are

1350
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 1: really smart, wind up buying homes and property and immigrating

1351
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 1: to the United States. There's a bunch of America, Like

1352
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 1: they're a bunch of the School of the America's graduates,

1353
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:22,760
Speaker 1: help overthrow their governments, loot their own countries, and then

1354
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 1: flee to the United States when things start to turn

1355
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 1: against them politically. It happens all the fucking time up

1356
01:10:29,439 --> 01:10:31,519
Speaker 1: to the present day. You know, we'll talk about Olivia

1357
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:33,720
Speaker 1: a little bit at the end um of this of

1358
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:38,160
Speaker 1: this series. So when Salvador and finally gets elected president

1359
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: of Chile. You know, the whole sixties were pumping soldiers

1360
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 1: who are you know, trained to be these right wing

1361
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 1: idealogues into Chile, and the Chilean left is rising politically,

1362
01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 1: and I and finally gets elected president in nineteen seventy. Um,

1363
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 1: and you know, now he's going to be in a

1364
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:55,000
Speaker 1: position to actually nationalize all these resources, help the Chilean

1365
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 1: people and kind of funk over some big US corporations

1366
01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 1: that have financial interests in Chile. So as soon as

1367
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 1: this happens, as soon as I gets elected, and in fact,

1368
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 1: a little bit before he actually gets elected, talking the

1369
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,920
Speaker 1: White House turns to cooing him out of power. Um,

1370
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:12,680
Speaker 1: Henry Kissinger says, I don't see why we need to

1371
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 1: stand by and watch a country go communist because of

1372
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:20,720
Speaker 1: the irresponsibility of its people. Because it's the seventies, so Nixon, Yeah, yeah,

1373
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 1: Nixon's in charge now. Yeah. But again, same basic idea

1374
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:26,240
Speaker 1: under Nixon and JFK. And in fact, you look at

1375
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 1: that quote from Henry Kissinger, we don't why would we

1376
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 1: stand by and let a country go communist because it's

1377
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:35,760
Speaker 1: people are irresponsible. That's the same attitude that Woodrow Wilson professed,

1378
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:39,320
Speaker 1: you know, sixty years ago earlier. Too ignorant to run

1379
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 1: your own country. Yeah, the most bad ship thing. I've

1380
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:47,639
Speaker 1: ever never understand that. Yeah, and of course Nixon expresses

1381
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:49,320
Speaker 1: and again we have this on tape. That's what we know.

1382
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:52,719
Speaker 1: Like Kissinger said that ship um, and Nixon is terrified

1383
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:55,760
Speaker 1: that the nation might become another Cuba, which, like, I

1384
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:58,240
Speaker 1: don't want to whitewash the bad things Castra did, but

1385
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 1: Cuba also has some of the best disaster response in

1386
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 1: the world and more doctors than basically any other country.

1387
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 1: Like it's not exactly the nightmare story of Commune, but whatever. Um.

1388
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:11,559
Speaker 1: You know, every nation, because it's a nation, has bad

1389
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:13,599
Speaker 1: shipped to it too. But like I it's just so

1390
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,680
Speaker 1: crazy to me people looking at Cuba as this like

1391
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:18,680
Speaker 1: nightmare when it's like, well you want to look at

1392
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 1: the grand scheme of every nation on the planet, They're

1393
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:24,240
Speaker 1: like not in the worst part of the places in

1394
01:12:24,240 --> 01:12:27,920
Speaker 1: the world to be Yeah, I don't know whatever. Um. So,

1395
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 1: under Nixon, the US backs ends far right opposition for

1396
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:34,840
Speaker 1: several years and it engages in a program of vicious

1397
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:38,680
Speaker 1: economic sabotage aimed at collapsing the Chilean economy. Uh and

1398
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 1: thus you know, all support in the new president. So

1399
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:44,400
Speaker 1: the CIA starts reaching out to officers in the military

1400
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 1: who were solid right wing anti communists. Uh. And one

1401
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 1: of the men that they reach out to is a

1402
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:53,120
Speaker 1: general named Augusto Pinochet, um who I guess that name

1403
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:55,679
Speaker 1: is at least familiar to a lot of people. Uh. Now,

1404
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:57,800
Speaker 1: there's some debate as to whether or not Pinochet was

1405
01:12:57,840 --> 01:12:59,840
Speaker 1: the main architect of the coup that followed, which he

1406
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:02,200
Speaker 1: claimed um or if he was just brought in at

1407
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 1: the last minute as a bunch of other members of

1408
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:07,360
Speaker 1: the coup claim. And again, Pinochet's a liar, so I'm

1409
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 1: not going to say what the actual truth is here.

1410
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 1: But he gets involved at a certain point, and he

1411
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 1: was not a graduate of the School of the America's.

1412
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:17,320
Speaker 1: But basically a hundred percent of the other officers who

1413
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 1: were involved in the plot against Diende, including the guys

1414
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:23,040
Speaker 1: who started the plot, were all graduates of the School

1415
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:25,920
Speaker 1: of the America's. How did Pinochet like just get ahead

1416
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 1: of all of them. He's real smart. He's a very

1417
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 1: very very very cunning political operator, right, Like you just

1418
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 1: have to give it to them sometimes, Like he was

1419
01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:35,799
Speaker 1: good at what he did, which was become the dictator

1420
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:40,240
Speaker 1: of Chile. Yeah, it's kind of like, how did Stalin

1421
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:41,880
Speaker 1: wind up in power, because if you look at the

1422
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 1: way things were kind of at the start of the

1423
01:13:43,200 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 1: Bolshevik Revolution, he probably isn't the guy you would have

1424
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 1: guessed would wind up with all of the power. But

1425
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 1: he does. And it's a very complicated story as to how. Um,

1426
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:53,639
Speaker 1: but it boils down to he's real fucking smart dude

1427
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:59,719
Speaker 1: and hot. Well that is overblown, but he was very intelligent. Um.

1428
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:02,679
Speaker 1: Get a lot of acne scars that get that, get

1429
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:06,639
Speaker 1: photoshops out of skin shame him. I am gonna skin

1430
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:11,720
Speaker 1: shave the dictator of the Soviet Union. Yeah, I'm not.

1431
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:14,160
Speaker 1: I'm not. That's not the thing to and I actually

1432
01:14:14,160 --> 01:14:17,400
Speaker 1: they were like small box cars. Um. So yeah. The

1433
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:20,559
Speaker 1: so all of these, basically all of the Chilean officers

1434
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: who start this plot to overthrow all End and organize

1435
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 1: the military against them are graduates of the School of

1436
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:28,240
Speaker 1: the Americas, and these men saw Allende, who sought to

1437
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:31,640
Speaker 1: improve public education and ensure Chile's resources were shared for

1438
01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 1: the benefit of its people, as a threat. I End

1439
01:14:34,400 --> 01:14:37,640
Speaker 1: meant a future without shiny new American malls filled with

1440
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 1: shiny new luxury goods that they could buy with the

1441
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:43,120
Speaker 1: bribes they received from the Western resource extraction companies that

1442
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:47,360
Speaker 1: wanted Chile's wealth um So. In September of nineteen seventy three,

1443
01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:50,479
Speaker 1: a large group of Chilean officers, again basically all of

1444
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:53,240
Speaker 1: whom were graduates of the s o A launch a coup.

1445
01:14:53,479 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 1: They surround the presidential palace and President i Ende is

1446
01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 1: found dead from a self inflicted gunshot wounds. Shortly thereafter,

1447
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: there's the bait over whether or not he shot himself,

1448
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 1: whether or not an AID shot him, if the military

1449
01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 1: killed him. We don't really need to get into that.

1450
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:07,600
Speaker 1: He's certainly murdered by this coup, Like whether or not

1451
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:10,679
Speaker 1: he pulled the trigger. He dies because there's a coup

1452
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:15,080
Speaker 1: against him. Um yeah. So General Pinochet winds up in

1453
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 1: power and he would hold. He would stay in power

1454
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 1: until nineteen nine. During his reign, Chilean soldiers continued to

1455
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:23,439
Speaker 1: train at the School of the America's. They learned fun

1456
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:27,480
Speaker 1: new counterinsurgency tactics to suppress the left, like throwing suspected

1457
01:15:27,520 --> 01:15:30,719
Speaker 1: leftist militants out of helicopters. They learned how to torture,

1458
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:33,200
Speaker 1: and they practice their new skills on tens of thousands

1459
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:36,400
Speaker 1: of their fellow Chileans between twelve hundred and thirty two

1460
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:39,920
Speaker 1: hundred people were executed by Pinochet, more than eighty thousand

1461
01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:43,040
Speaker 1: were interned, and again tens of thousands were tortured. Now,

1462
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:47,240
Speaker 1: Pinochet himself didn't, you know, attend the School of the America's,

1463
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:50,400
Speaker 1: but the head of his secret police, Manuel Contreres, did

1464
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:53,160
Speaker 1: graduate from the s o A. Another graduate of the

1465
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:56,559
Speaker 1: s o A was the deputy director of Pinochet's secret police,

1466
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:59,600
Speaker 1: and so also another graduate of the s o A

1467
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:02,560
Speaker 1: was the head of the Via Grimaldi, which was Pinochet's

1468
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 1: notorious torture castle. He had a castle where you tortured people. Uh,

1469
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:08,720
Speaker 1: and the Via Grimaldi was was particularly famous for its

1470
01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:11,479
Speaker 1: signature punishment, which was rape. Like that was like one

1471
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 1: of the things that's notorious about this is like male

1472
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:16,479
Speaker 1: or female, you get sent here. One of the things

1473
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:18,519
Speaker 1: that happens, you're gonna get that you're gonna get really

1474
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:22,400
Speaker 1: really raped, um like either by individuals or by individuals

1475
01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:24,840
Speaker 1: like using objects. And it's kind of it's to humiliate

1476
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 1: the men. I guess it's to humiliate the women too.

1477
01:16:27,240 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 1: But like this is like a lot pretty much every

1478
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:33,160
Speaker 1: torture prison that exists rape as a part of it.

1479
01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 1: But I'm wanna say it's just their guantanamo, but this

1480
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:45,439
Speaker 1: it's particularly a thing here that is so uh. It's

1481
01:16:45,439 --> 01:16:50,840
Speaker 1: wild to me that in the desire for not just things,

1482
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 1: not just the ability to buy, and not just the

1483
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:56,160
Speaker 1: American dream, but like prosperity and future and like growth

1484
01:16:56,160 --> 01:17:00,160
Speaker 1: and development, we all, like we as human being is

1485
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 1: always seem to take a step back to the dark age.

1486
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:05,400
Speaker 1: Is like build a castle with giant walls and like

1487
01:17:05,479 --> 01:17:09,600
Speaker 1: assault people as a firm of development so that we

1488
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 1: can all be better. Like where is the logic? Well,

1489
01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 1: you know, I think they had this building and it

1490
01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:17,720
Speaker 1: was a good place for a prison, and they you know,

1491
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:20,519
Speaker 1: for whatever reason. One of the things you find studying

1492
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:22,439
Speaker 1: in the School of the Americas is that when people

1493
01:17:22,479 --> 01:17:26,920
Speaker 1: are trained in how to punish leftists by the US military,

1494
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:30,719
Speaker 1: they wind up raping their prisoners all the fucking time. Um,

1495
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:33,679
Speaker 1: it's a huge thing for s O A graduate big rapists.

1496
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:39,280
Speaker 1: Graduates of the s O A huge fans of rape

1497
01:17:39,320 --> 01:17:42,760
Speaker 1: as a method of violent political control. Are we just

1498
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:46,160
Speaker 1: seeing the same thing? And oh my god, there's a

1499
01:17:46,200 --> 01:17:48,800
Speaker 1: country right now where there's a coup happening and they

1500
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:52,799
Speaker 1: just forced a guy to like assault himself with a bottle.

1501
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:57,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I forget where that was. I think so, yeah,

1502
01:17:58,000 --> 01:17:59,760
Speaker 1: that wouldn't have anything to do with the U. S.

1503
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 1: Real because Belarus not um not a lot of ties

1504
01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:06,880
Speaker 1: with the Belarusian Belarusian soldiers aren't being trained by the

1505
01:18:06,920 --> 01:18:09,800
Speaker 1: US military. Like that's one you can't That's that's kind

1506
01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:12,920
Speaker 1: of more rushes into things, but also like just kind

1507
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:15,760
Speaker 1: of bellary. How different are we from like I feel

1508
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 1: like so much of our tactics are just very similar

1509
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 1: in the same results. This this is the thing. And

1510
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:24,120
Speaker 1: again it's the thing when you start talking about like um,

1511
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 1: you know, people will talk about will praise the things

1512
01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:28,639
Speaker 1: that let's go back to Cuba, the things that Cuba

1513
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:30,200
Speaker 1: do is right, and someone will bring up like all

1514
01:18:30,200 --> 01:18:32,439
Speaker 1: of the horrible human rights things that are real things

1515
01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:34,560
Speaker 1: the Cuban government has done some fucked up ship like

1516
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:36,760
Speaker 1: a lot of like LGBT people, you know, what was

1517
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:38,840
Speaker 1: happening during the AIDS crisis. A lot of reasons to

1518
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:42,240
Speaker 1: criticize the Cuban government, But you try to find a

1519
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:45,040
Speaker 1: single thing the Cubans did that the United States isn't

1520
01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:48,280
Speaker 1: also doing. In this period, two members of multiple foreign

1521
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:52,040
Speaker 1: nations into its own nation. Um Like, we've got we've

1522
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:53,760
Speaker 1: got no leg to stand on when it comes to

1523
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:57,400
Speaker 1: criticizing these people, just because you personally didn't get brought

1524
01:18:57,520 --> 01:19:01,240
Speaker 1: taken into a rape castle and molested to death. Um Like,

1525
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:03,519
Speaker 1: we trained people in how to do that, and then

1526
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:05,840
Speaker 1: we were like, it's good that they're doing this. Let's

1527
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:07,960
Speaker 1: be their friends while they do it, because this is

1528
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:09,960
Speaker 1: what we want them to do because it gets us

1529
01:19:10,000 --> 01:19:15,599
Speaker 1: copper like funk everybody. Um So, yeah, the Via Grimaldi

1530
01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:17,799
Speaker 1: fucked up place. And I'm gonna quote from a report

1531
01:19:17,800 --> 01:19:20,880
Speaker 1: in Amnesty International on it. Quote. They took us to

1532
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:23,040
Speaker 1: an interrogation room where they had a metal bunk bed.

1533
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 1: There was another detainee on the top, and my partner

1534
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 1: was tied to the side. They were interrogating all three

1535
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:30,040
Speaker 1: of us at the same time, taking turns to electrocute

1536
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:32,880
Speaker 1: us one after the other. The interrogation session lasted through

1537
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:36,240
Speaker 1: the night into the next morning. Jesus Christ. Yeah, Now,

1538
01:19:36,280 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 1: in Via Grimaldi, detainees would be electrocuted, water boarded, They

1539
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:42,519
Speaker 1: had their heads forced into buckets of urine and excrement.

1540
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:45,240
Speaker 1: They were suffocated with bags. They were hanged by their

1541
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:47,639
Speaker 1: feets or their their feet or their hands and beaten.

1542
01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:52,000
Speaker 1: Women obviously were raped, and for some detainees the punishment

1543
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:55,439
Speaker 1: was death. Um. The dark, cramped cells they were held

1544
01:19:55,479 --> 01:19:58,360
Speaker 1: in was just like, yeah, that was that was that

1545
01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:01,280
Speaker 1: was that was the world you lived at. Um. One

1546
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:04,040
Speaker 1: detainee later recalled, after an interrogation, you would be thrown

1547
01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:05,640
Speaker 1: back in your cell. They would shut the door, and

1548
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:08,000
Speaker 1: then the first thing you would experience as someone coming closer.

1549
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 1: They would hold you, help you lie down, take the

1550
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:12,559
Speaker 1: blindfold off, and put some water to your lips. The

1551
01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:14,800
Speaker 1: electric shocks would make you stream with sweat and you'd

1552
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:19,240
Speaker 1: get extremely dehydrated, so very thirsty. And about forty hundred

1553
01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:21,120
Speaker 1: people went to this place over the course of the

1554
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:23,040
Speaker 1: time Pinochet was in charge. A lot of them never

1555
01:20:23,080 --> 01:20:24,719
Speaker 1: made it out. We'll never know how many died. They're

1556
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:29,360
Speaker 1: huge numbers of people are still missing. UM horrible. Yeah.

1557
01:20:29,720 --> 01:20:32,200
Speaker 1: General Carlos Pratt's was one of the few members of

1558
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:35,479
Speaker 1: the Chilean military command who remained loyal to President i Ende.

1559
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:37,559
Speaker 1: For this, he and his wife were murdered by a

1560
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:40,719
Speaker 1: car bomb in nineteen seventy four in Buenos Aires. Before

1561
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:44,520
Speaker 1: his death, he mused on exactly how his former comrades

1562
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:47,400
Speaker 1: in the Chilean military had, in his kind of words,

1563
01:20:47,479 --> 01:20:51,360
Speaker 1: confused Chilean national interest with the interest of the United States,

1564
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:54,879
Speaker 1: betraying their own people. Because again, because of these ideas

1565
01:20:54,920 --> 01:20:58,320
Speaker 1: they buy into about like American the American way, like

1566
01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:02,120
Speaker 1: this American dream they want for themselves, they send thousands

1567
01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:05,080
Speaker 1: of their own people off to die. So this this general,

1568
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:07,679
Speaker 1: who is one of like the loyal to the people

1569
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:11,160
Speaker 1: of Chile generals, is kind of before his own murder,

1570
01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 1: musing on how this happened. And this quote from him,

1571
01:21:14,160 --> 01:21:18,040
Speaker 1: I think is really really telling. As far as the

1572
01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:21,240
Speaker 1: internal enemy is concerned, the opinion acquired by those who

1573
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:23,800
Speaker 1: have attended courses at the School of the Americas and

1574
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:27,280
Speaker 1: others organized by the Pentagon has been increasingly prevalent. Many

1575
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:30,040
Speaker 1: of these soldiers have responded to the stereotypes and thoughts

1576
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 1: which were inculcated into them during these courses, and, believing

1577
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:35,880
Speaker 1: they were liberating the country from the internal enemy, have

1578
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:39,040
Speaker 1: committed a crime which can only be explained by their ingenuousness,

1579
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:42,479
Speaker 1: their ignorance, and their political shortsightedness. I used to tell

1580
01:21:42,479 --> 01:21:44,680
Speaker 1: the President that we should send our officers to know

1581
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:46,639
Speaker 1: what it was like in the countries of Europe, Africa,

1582
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:49,320
Speaker 1: and Asia, so as not to copy or imitate their

1583
01:21:49,360 --> 01:21:51,560
Speaker 1: armed forces, but so that they could widen their horizons

1584
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:53,559
Speaker 1: and understand that the world does not begin to end

1585
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:57,240
Speaker 1: in the Schools of the Pentagon. So this is kind

1586
01:21:57,240 --> 01:21:59,439
Speaker 1: of his blame, you know that, this is him specifically

1587
01:21:59,439 --> 01:22:02,400
Speaker 1: saying that, like the the the mindset, it's not the

1588
01:22:02,479 --> 01:22:05,360
Speaker 1: specific training at the at the School of the America's

1589
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:07,080
Speaker 1: that has as much an impact on why these men

1590
01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:11,080
Speaker 1: do the things they do as the mindset the inculcated

1591
01:22:11,080 --> 01:22:13,240
Speaker 1: in them. It turns them into It turns them into

1592
01:22:13,280 --> 01:22:17,960
Speaker 1: the same kind of right wing, uh extractionary monsters that

1593
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:20,240
Speaker 1: are currently government governing our own country and that have

1594
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:23,559
Speaker 1: for a while determined US public policy. It turns them

1595
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:27,800
Speaker 1: into little fucking Nixon's right. That's that's what's happening here now.

1596
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:31,160
Speaker 1: Another famed School of the America's graduate was Hugo Banzer.

1597
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:33,920
Speaker 1: He graduated from the s o A in nineteen fifty six.

1598
01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:36,679
Speaker 1: He went home to Bolivia. He rose through the ranks,

1599
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:39,320
Speaker 1: and he became a general. In nineteen seventy one, he

1600
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:42,960
Speaker 1: seized total power during a violent coup. He immediately closed

1601
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:46,679
Speaker 1: universities and banned all political parties and activity. He jailed

1602
01:22:46,760 --> 01:22:49,680
Speaker 1: labor leaders, arrested three thousand political opponents, and had more

1603
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:52,800
Speaker 1: than two hundred of them executed. Under Banzer's rule, the

1604
01:22:52,840 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 1: basement of the Ministry of the Interior was turned into

1605
01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:57,880
Speaker 1: a torture chamber, or more than two thousand prisoners were

1606
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:00,640
Speaker 1: held for his good work. Bands are to spot on

1607
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:02,680
Speaker 1: the Wall of Fame back at the School of the

1608
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:08,800
Speaker 1: America's now shiit, Yeah, it sucks. It's It's one thing

1609
01:23:08,840 --> 01:23:12,320
Speaker 1: to go down there like mega school, brainwatch a bunch

1610
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:14,880
Speaker 1: of people, spread them across the entire continent and allow

1611
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:17,160
Speaker 1: them to take over. It is entirely another to be

1612
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 1: like this is a prime example of the students were

1613
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:22,960
Speaker 1: trying to create. This is this guy did it. This

1614
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:24,600
Speaker 1: is what we want you to do. I mean, you

1615
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:28,240
Speaker 1: couldn't be more direct, You couldn't be more so. Now,

1616
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:31,080
Speaker 1: remember how I kind of started talking about the ground

1617
01:23:31,200 --> 01:23:33,000
Speaker 1: school and like what it was trying to do to

1618
01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:35,719
Speaker 1: the minds of soldiers by talking about these Argentine soldiers

1619
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:38,519
Speaker 1: who were like the first way into that school. Well,

1620
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:40,680
Speaker 1: one of the men in that first wave was a

1621
01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 1: young officer named Leopoldo Gaultieri, and he went on to

1622
01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:46,920
Speaker 1: again become a general because it's great for your career

1623
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:49,080
Speaker 1: to go to the School of the America's UH, and

1624
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:51,519
Speaker 1: eventually he helped carry out a military coup that took

1625
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:55,160
Speaker 1: power in Argentina. In the late nineteen seventies, he became

1626
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:58,639
Speaker 1: the dictator of Argentina UH and as the dictator School

1627
01:23:58,680 --> 01:24:01,439
Speaker 1: of the America's graduate gult Erry presided over more than

1628
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 1: thirty thousand executions other countries alone. We have to stop

1629
01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:12,400
Speaker 1: doing this ship right, stop messing with us other countries.

1630
01:24:12,439 --> 01:24:15,080
Speaker 1: And I mean honestly, right now, most of you have

1631
01:24:16,360 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 1: keep that up, like keep this coronavirus energy. Later, like

1632
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:22,120
Speaker 1: protect your citizens. That's nuts. It's fun. A lot of

1633
01:24:22,120 --> 01:24:24,519
Speaker 1: stuff's fun. There's a lot I could say about this.

1634
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:26,639
Speaker 1: One of the things that so fucked is that like

1635
01:24:27,320 --> 01:24:31,280
Speaker 1: we funk all these countries over and help them established dictatorships,

1636
01:24:31,400 --> 01:24:33,240
Speaker 1: and because of how badly it goes, you get this

1637
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:35,639
Speaker 1: attitude that the U s should never do anything else ever,

1638
01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:37,600
Speaker 1: so that when the people of these countries rise up

1639
01:24:37,640 --> 01:24:41,960
Speaker 1: against their dictators UH, there's basically no nobody, there's no

1640
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:45,400
Speaker 1: you can't you can't make a political argument for helping them. Um,

1641
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:47,240
Speaker 1: because of how bad it works. Every time we like

1642
01:24:47,439 --> 01:24:50,040
Speaker 1: it's this, and it just it compounds the heart. It's

1643
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:54,080
Speaker 1: just all fucked. Everything's fucked. Um. I wish a lot

1644
01:24:54,120 --> 01:24:55,760
Speaker 1: of different and there's a lot of people. If I

1645
01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:58,080
Speaker 1: could unborn people, there's a lot of people that would

1646
01:24:58,160 --> 01:25:02,040
Speaker 1: make not have been born. Um. And most of them

1647
01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:04,840
Speaker 1: are Americans. So over the decades that it was open,

1648
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:07,360
Speaker 1: the School of the America's is known to have graduated

1649
01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:10,719
Speaker 1: at least eleven students who became dictators, which is a lot.

1650
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:14,439
Speaker 1: That's so many dictators for one school. Is there any

1651
01:25:14,479 --> 01:25:18,920
Speaker 1: school competing with them for a number of dictor No, No,

1652
01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:25,160
Speaker 1: there's not, Like, Um, it's that so many fucking dictators

1653
01:25:25,160 --> 01:25:28,960
Speaker 1: from a single school. Yeah. I don't think anywhere has

1654
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:32,280
Speaker 1: that kind of pedigree. Um, not even fucking Harvard. So

1655
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:37,559
Speaker 1: the school. Yeah, many of the school's deadliest graduates weren't

1656
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:40,799
Speaker 1: always the ones who became world leaders. Though. More than anything,

1657
01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:45,080
Speaker 1: School of America's men were the willing instruments of dictators,

1658
01:25:45,120 --> 01:25:48,200
Speaker 1: the happy killers who made the right wing authoritarian wave

1659
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:50,879
Speaker 1: that crashed over Latin America in the seventies and eighties

1660
01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:54,840
Speaker 1: possible el Salvador in general, Juan Zapato was a graduate.

1661
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:58,920
Speaker 1: He planned the assassination of six Jesuit priests, their housekeeper,

1662
01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:01,840
Speaker 1: and their teenaged honor. The crime of these Jesuits was

1663
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:05,080
Speaker 1: providing humanitarian aid to suffering left wing peasants. We'll talk

1664
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:07,479
Speaker 1: a lot more about Catholics and jesue being murdered in

1665
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:09,760
Speaker 1: the next episode, because they're a big part of in

1666
01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:12,280
Speaker 1: Latin America. They get killed all the time by these

1667
01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:15,880
Speaker 1: right wing death squads because like, say, what you all

1668
01:26:15,800 --> 01:26:18,160
Speaker 1: about the Catholic Church in Latin America. A lot of

1669
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:21,760
Speaker 1: Catholic and Jesuit leaders are like, oh, there's all these

1670
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:25,240
Speaker 1: people starving to death, and like we should help them.

1671
01:26:25,479 --> 01:26:27,519
Speaker 1: And those people are also left wing, so you've got

1672
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:29,760
Speaker 1: to murder those priests and stuff. It's this whole thing,

1673
01:26:30,200 --> 01:26:35,639
Speaker 1: um all about Oscar Romero a bit, Yeah, um Jesuits, Yeah,

1674
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:38,439
Speaker 1: It's like it's I of the things the Catholic Church

1675
01:26:38,439 --> 01:26:41,280
Speaker 1: has done, this is the best of them, is their

1676
01:26:41,320 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 1: attempts to reduce the horrors happening in Latin America in

1677
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:48,559
Speaker 1: this period of time. Probably so uh Zapeta, against School

1678
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:50,600
Speaker 1: of the America's graduate, was involved in two hundred and

1679
01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:53,640
Speaker 1: ten summary execution, sixty four tortures and a hundred and

1680
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:57,879
Speaker 1: ten illegal detentions during his career. US training certainly influenced

1681
01:26:57,920 --> 01:27:00,120
Speaker 1: how he did what he did, but it's important to

1682
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:03,720
Speaker 1: remember that a very deliberate campaign of US propaganda influenced

1683
01:27:03,800 --> 01:27:06,759
Speaker 1: why he did what he did. Leslie Gill, the author

1684
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:08,720
Speaker 1: of that book The School of the Americas that I

1685
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 1: keep citing, interviewed a number of graduates of the school,

1686
01:27:12,160 --> 01:27:14,880
Speaker 1: including a Bolivian colonel who told her about the El

1687
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:17,519
Speaker 1: Salvadoran soldiers he'd met there. And this guy is really interesting.

1688
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:19,720
Speaker 1: We'll hear from him in part two because he's very

1689
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:21,519
Speaker 1: critical of the School of the Americas and what he

1690
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:23,919
Speaker 1: learned there, but he also went like he has this experience,

1691
01:27:23,960 --> 01:27:25,559
Speaker 1: he knows all these people who go there, so he's

1692
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:29,360
Speaker 1: able to talk from direct experience about how would influences

1693
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:31,880
Speaker 1: them as human beings and changes the way they think,

1694
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:33,840
Speaker 1: which is part of why this book, The School of

1695
01:27:33,880 --> 01:27:36,960
Speaker 1: the Americas by Leslie Gill is such an incredible resource

1696
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:39,080
Speaker 1: that really, if you care about this, you should buy

1697
01:27:39,120 --> 01:27:42,800
Speaker 1: and read. It's a very readable and and very detailed

1698
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:46,040
Speaker 1: breakdown of what happened there. Um so I'm going to

1699
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:48,840
Speaker 1: read a quote from this Bolivian colonel. He's talking again

1700
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:51,439
Speaker 1: about the El Salvadoran soldiers he met at the School

1701
01:27:51,479 --> 01:27:54,719
Speaker 1: of the Americas. Those guys thought about three things. First,

1702
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:57,080
Speaker 1: they wanted to train themselves well. Second, they wanted to

1703
01:27:57,080 --> 01:27:59,560
Speaker 1: buy pickup trucks and drive them back to El Salvador.

1704
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:01,240
Speaker 1: When I finished class at the end of the day

1705
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:03,160
Speaker 1: and went to the library, they would go out and

1706
01:28:03,200 --> 01:28:05,360
Speaker 1: look for cheap pickups to buy. And third, they had

1707
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:07,400
Speaker 1: a lot of relatives. And this is during this is

1708
01:28:07,400 --> 01:28:09,320
Speaker 1: after nine, this is the period where the School of

1709
01:28:09,320 --> 01:28:11,840
Speaker 1: the America's has moved to the United States. And third,

1710
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:13,439
Speaker 1: they had a lot of relatives who they wanted to

1711
01:28:13,439 --> 01:28:15,800
Speaker 1: see in the United States, especially Washington, and it was

1712
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:17,800
Speaker 1: not the first time that they've been to the United States.

1713
01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:19,960
Speaker 1: They admired the United States and the same way as

1714
01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:22,120
Speaker 1: the Bolivians who trained at the School of the America's.

1715
01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:27,519
Speaker 1: So like this is um like like that. That's interesting

1716
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:29,160
Speaker 1: to me. These guys when they get trained at the

1717
01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:30,760
Speaker 1: School of the Americas in the US, like the first

1718
01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:32,759
Speaker 1: thing they want to go do is buy cheap pickups

1719
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:35,440
Speaker 1: and drive them back home. Against this thing, this continuous

1720
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:39,400
Speaker 1: thing from the nineteen forties of being an American, the

1721
01:28:39,439 --> 01:28:41,680
Speaker 1: thing that I've been inculcated and is this idea of

1722
01:28:41,720 --> 01:28:46,280
Speaker 1: like easy access to luxury goods. That's huge for these guys, um.

1723
01:28:46,360 --> 01:28:48,720
Speaker 1: And they have family members who have moved here and

1724
01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:51,240
Speaker 1: like become part of the culture. They're they're very much

1725
01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:53,960
Speaker 1: in their head in a lot of ways, they're Americans,

1726
01:28:54,400 --> 01:28:57,479
Speaker 1: and they're frustrated by the fact that other people in Bolivia,

1727
01:28:57,560 --> 01:29:00,320
Speaker 1: most of their countrymen, don't want their country to be

1728
01:29:00,360 --> 01:29:03,040
Speaker 1: more like the United States, and the only thing way

1729
01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:05,240
Speaker 1: they can sort of it's the same thing you're seeing

1730
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:07,120
Speaker 1: now with all these right wing militias in the United

1731
01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:09,800
Speaker 1: States who see folks on the left here who want

1732
01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:12,240
Speaker 1: things that are different from them, and the only thing

1733
01:29:12,280 --> 01:29:14,720
Speaker 1: they can think to do is kill them, because at

1734
01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:16,680
Speaker 1: the end of the day, like that's the kind of

1735
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:19,760
Speaker 1: people that they are, and they have guns. Um, And

1736
01:29:19,800 --> 01:29:21,720
Speaker 1: it's the same thing going on in Latin America. It

1737
01:29:21,720 --> 01:29:24,840
Speaker 1: happens here, it happens there first, right, it happens there

1738
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:27,200
Speaker 1: first is part of an organized plan by the United States,

1739
01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:30,200
Speaker 1: and it happens here sort of by this is just

1740
01:29:30,240 --> 01:29:32,040
Speaker 1: the way things are going to go you have all

1741
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:34,560
Speaker 1: these people who believe the same thing, who here in

1742
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:36,320
Speaker 1: the United States to believe the same things as the

1743
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:39,920
Speaker 1: officers were training in Latin America about the American Dream,

1744
01:29:40,320 --> 01:29:42,200
Speaker 1: and they also come to believe the same thing about

1745
01:29:42,400 --> 01:29:46,439
Speaker 1: communists and Marxists and whatnot, making it impossible for them

1746
01:29:46,520 --> 01:29:49,880
Speaker 1: to live that dream by stopping the heedless extraction of

1747
01:29:49,920 --> 01:29:52,880
Speaker 1: resources and trying to build a more equitable society. And

1748
01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:55,680
Speaker 1: both groups come to the same conclusion, these soldiers in

1749
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:58,679
Speaker 1: Latin America and these militia dudes in the United States,

1750
01:29:58,720 --> 01:30:01,320
Speaker 1: which is murder everyone who disagrees with me and doesn't

1751
01:30:01,360 --> 01:30:03,400
Speaker 1: want me to have a cool truck. There's like a

1752
01:30:03,560 --> 01:30:06,360
Speaker 1: level of absolutism to the American dream, which is like

1753
01:30:06,479 --> 01:30:09,479
Speaker 1: this idea of all or nothing, which is to me

1754
01:30:09,800 --> 01:30:13,280
Speaker 1: so fraught with like, I don't want to live my

1755
01:30:13,360 --> 01:30:16,200
Speaker 1: life on terms of like pass or fail, you know

1756
01:30:16,240 --> 01:30:18,840
Speaker 1: what I mean, And then how that extends then to

1757
01:30:19,880 --> 01:30:22,880
Speaker 1: us versus them, and then pass that to you either

1758
01:30:22,920 --> 01:30:28,400
Speaker 1: live our way or die. I'm obsessed with this idea

1759
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:30,880
Speaker 1: of like, especially if when you start to look at

1760
01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:33,000
Speaker 1: like the items that they obsess over, like not only

1761
01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:35,720
Speaker 1: is there like a very strict uniform code, Like if

1762
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:38,080
Speaker 1: you've ever been in a protest with a ship tone

1763
01:30:38,080 --> 01:30:40,439
Speaker 1: of undercover cops, you can pick them out so fast

1764
01:30:40,479 --> 01:30:43,479
Speaker 1: they can't break that like uniform. Look. But then to

1765
01:30:43,560 --> 01:30:47,599
Speaker 1: this idea of like trucks, like trucks being a symbol

1766
01:30:47,680 --> 01:30:51,800
Speaker 1: not just of masculinity but of like freedom at the

1767
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:54,439
Speaker 1: expensive others? Is that the way you say that, like

1768
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:56,960
Speaker 1: this idea of like it's what is it about a

1769
01:30:56,960 --> 01:30:59,840
Speaker 1: pickup truck that makes you feel so much more? Is

1770
01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:01,760
Speaker 1: it the height? Is it the fact that you can

1771
01:31:01,800 --> 01:31:04,040
Speaker 1: haul a lot of things. I don't understand boys in

1772
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 1: their toys. I mean I I just bought I. I

1773
01:31:07,400 --> 01:31:12,519
Speaker 1: have a large off roading vehicle and they're fun. I

1774
01:31:12,560 --> 01:31:17,280
Speaker 1: wouldn't you know, uh, shoot babies to death and light

1775
01:31:17,320 --> 01:31:19,599
Speaker 1: a church on fire to have access to an off

1776
01:31:19,680 --> 01:31:24,240
Speaker 1: roading vehicle. But they do have a power to them. Um, yeah,

1777
01:31:24,280 --> 01:31:26,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. Like, there's a lot there's a lot

1778
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:29,080
Speaker 1: to be said about what trucks mean within the context

1779
01:31:29,160 --> 01:31:31,200
Speaker 1: of the American dream and within sort of the American

1780
01:31:31,240 --> 01:31:33,960
Speaker 1: willingness to do violence both to the world, like to

1781
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:36,599
Speaker 1: the environment and to individuals around them. Like, there's actually

1782
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:40,160
Speaker 1: a lot I think that should be ethnographically studied about

1783
01:31:40,160 --> 01:31:43,479
Speaker 1: how Americans view trucks. UM, but that is too much

1784
01:31:43,560 --> 01:31:45,360
Speaker 1: of a topic for this We're near the end of

1785
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:47,439
Speaker 1: our episode and kind of before we close out, and

1786
01:31:47,479 --> 01:31:49,719
Speaker 1: in part two, we're gonna talk a lot more about

1787
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:51,800
Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna talk about the Almosote massacre. We're

1788
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:54,519
Speaker 1: gonna talk about Oscar Romero. We're gonna talk about horrible

1789
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:56,519
Speaker 1: things that happened in Guatemala, and we're gonna talk about

1790
01:31:56,560 --> 01:31:59,519
Speaker 1: kind of what happens in the United States when the

1791
01:31:59,520 --> 01:32:02,080
Speaker 1: School of the America's moves there and how it operates

1792
01:32:02,080 --> 01:32:05,559
Speaker 1: when it leaves Latin America, and and it's it's it's

1793
01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:11,240
Speaker 1: operated off of Columbus, Ohio after n UM, so like Columboids.

1794
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:13,840
Speaker 1: That's what they call people from Columbus. Uh, we're talking

1795
01:32:13,840 --> 01:32:17,040
Speaker 1: about your backyard next episode. Hey, bastard fans, best start

1796
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:19,200
Speaker 1: a renos whatever we call you. Just jumping in here

1797
01:32:19,240 --> 01:32:21,360
Speaker 1: to let you know that I made a mistake. Uh,

1798
01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:25,240
Speaker 1: I said Columbus, Ohio. There, it's actually Columbus, Georgia. Um.

1799
01:32:25,439 --> 01:32:27,240
Speaker 1: The School of the Americas in the United States was

1800
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:30,120
Speaker 1: outside of Fort Bidding. I do apologize for the error.

1801
01:32:30,200 --> 01:32:33,080
Speaker 1: I've never actually made a mistake before in my entire life,

1802
01:32:33,200 --> 01:32:36,599
Speaker 1: so I you know, we we we regret uh this

1803
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:39,320
Speaker 1: being my first one. I want to cite a passage

1804
01:32:39,360 --> 01:32:41,200
Speaker 1: from an article on the School of America's that I

1805
01:32:41,200 --> 01:32:43,639
Speaker 1: found in the Thomas Jefferson Law Review that just kind

1806
01:32:43,640 --> 01:32:46,479
Speaker 1: of runs through a horrific laundry list of the different

1807
01:32:46,520 --> 01:32:48,960
Speaker 1: things graduates of the s o A did to give

1808
01:32:48,960 --> 01:32:53,240
Speaker 1: you an understanding of just how widespread the destruction from

1809
01:32:53,240 --> 01:32:55,639
Speaker 1: this school is. It's almost impossible to keep in your head.

1810
01:32:56,600 --> 01:32:59,759
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna read that quote now. Pedro Pimentel Rios,

1811
01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:02,240
Speaker 1: who an El Salvadoran soldier trained in the s o A,

1812
01:33:02,360 --> 01:33:05,000
Speaker 1: participated in the Dos Aires massacre, which resulted in the

1813
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:08,680
Speaker 1: killing of two hundred and one people. Soldiers systematically murdered men,

1814
01:33:08,720 --> 01:33:11,680
Speaker 1: women and children, bludgeoned villagers with a sledgehammer, threw them

1815
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:14,960
Speaker 1: down a well, and raped women and girls. Haitian colonel

1816
01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:18,599
Speaker 1: Frank Romain directed the Saint Jean Bosco massacre. As Father

1817
01:33:18,680 --> 01:33:21,920
Speaker 1: Jean bertrand Aristide was saying mass armed men broke into

1818
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:24,920
Speaker 1: the church, killing twelve parishioners and wounding at least twenty seven.

1819
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:27,280
Speaker 1: They then doused the church with gasoline and set it

1820
01:33:27,320 --> 01:33:30,960
Speaker 1: on fire. Honduran general Romero Veasquez led the two thousand

1821
01:33:31,080 --> 01:33:34,759
Speaker 1: nine military coup and Honduras that overthrew a democratically elected government.

1822
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:38,120
Speaker 1: Beasquez is the third sa A graduate to overthrow governments

1823
01:33:38,120 --> 01:33:42,360
Speaker 1: in Honduras Nicaragua. During the Samosa dictatorship, more than four

1824
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:45,240
Speaker 1: thousand National Guard troops graduated from the the s o A.

1825
01:33:45,560 --> 01:33:48,040
Speaker 1: Many of them became, contrast, responsible for the deaths of

1826
01:33:48,080 --> 01:33:51,599
Speaker 1: thousands of Nicaraguan peasants. Between nineteen forty seven and nineteen

1827
01:33:51,600 --> 01:33:54,439
Speaker 1: seventy nine, more soldiers from Nicaragua attended the school than

1828
01:33:54,479 --> 01:33:58,080
Speaker 1: from any other country Peru. Telmo Hurtado directed the massacre

1829
01:33:58,120 --> 01:34:00,919
Speaker 1: of sixty nine men, women and children and Echo Marca.

1830
01:34:01,000 --> 01:34:03,360
Speaker 1: After separating the women and children from the men, his

1831
01:34:03,479 --> 01:34:05,679
Speaker 1: unit raped them, ordered them into buildings, and then set

1832
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:10,400
Speaker 1: them on fire, where they burned alive. That's a tiny

1833
01:34:10,680 --> 01:34:14,880
Speaker 1: it's five, maybe, of the of the crimes committed by

1834
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:19,040
Speaker 1: s o A graduates. Um, that's just one pair. I

1835
01:34:19,040 --> 01:34:21,360
Speaker 1: could have picked a bunch of different ones. Just summarizing

1836
01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:23,120
Speaker 1: the fucking nightmares that come out of this place. And

1837
01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:25,519
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about a massacre that makes all

1838
01:34:25,560 --> 01:34:28,280
Speaker 1: of those look tiny tomorrow the almazote mascor we're talking

1839
01:34:28,280 --> 01:34:31,320
Speaker 1: about it on Thursday. I should say, um, not cool

1840
01:34:31,479 --> 01:34:38,559
Speaker 1: stuff hard hard, It's hard to like process right right? Well,

1841
01:34:38,600 --> 01:34:40,400
Speaker 1: I mean I think like I can won't you to

1842
01:34:40,400 --> 01:34:41,920
Speaker 1: say something? And I'm like, oh, but no, that's happening

1843
01:34:41,960 --> 01:34:44,520
Speaker 1: right now, Like how could you hate your fellow countrymen

1844
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:47,519
Speaker 1: so much that you burned them on non we we've

1845
01:34:47,920 --> 01:34:51,640
Speaker 1: been stopping you from getting a truck. How dare you

1846
01:34:52,080 --> 01:34:55,320
Speaker 1: stop the progress of all of us? I must progress

1847
01:34:55,560 --> 01:34:59,160
Speaker 1: faster or even just the idea of like it's hard

1848
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:02,240
Speaker 1: for me to Okay, So I have two thoughts. One

1849
01:35:02,280 --> 01:35:04,840
Speaker 1: is I've been so poor. I've almost been homeless before.

1850
01:35:05,080 --> 01:35:08,959
Speaker 1: I understand looking at a life of ease and coveting

1851
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:12,960
Speaker 1: it and and being like that temptation of like what

1852
01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:14,920
Speaker 1: would you like and really having to face the question

1853
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:16,519
Speaker 1: of like what would I do in order to have

1854
01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:20,479
Speaker 1: access to those things? Right? Like it's I have like

1855
01:35:20,560 --> 01:35:23,639
Speaker 1: some level of sympathy for the boys that went into

1856
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:27,640
Speaker 1: this school and we're inundated with opportunity, Like that's the

1857
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:30,439
Speaker 1: opportunity is a hell of a drug, Like, especially when

1858
01:35:30,479 --> 01:35:31,960
Speaker 1: it's fed to you in such a sense of like,

1859
01:35:32,320 --> 01:35:34,080
Speaker 1: if you work hard, it's going to be there for you.

1860
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:35,880
Speaker 1: All you have to do. It's all within you, right,

1861
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:38,960
Speaker 1: Like that that part of the American dream of like

1862
01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:41,120
Speaker 1: it's already in there, you just have to tap into

1863
01:35:41,240 --> 01:35:43,280
Speaker 1: it hard enough. Is what I think drive some people

1864
01:35:43,360 --> 01:35:45,600
Speaker 1: right over the line, um, because you don't want to

1865
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:46,880
Speaker 1: be a thing that stops yourself. That should be the

1866
01:35:46,920 --> 01:35:50,559
Speaker 1: easiest hurdle to overcome. And then I'm thinking about like

1867
01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:53,880
Speaker 1: these men who returned to home, and like, there must

1868
01:35:53,920 --> 01:35:58,280
Speaker 1: be such a level of like self hate to look

1869
01:35:58,320 --> 01:36:01,920
Speaker 1: at people that look like you or have shared experiences

1870
01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:05,840
Speaker 1: as you and then not just violently rape them, but

1871
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:11,000
Speaker 1: also burn them alive, women and children, and like it's just, yeah,

1872
01:36:11,120 --> 01:36:13,320
Speaker 1: I commend you on your ability to continue to find

1873
01:36:13,320 --> 01:36:15,920
Speaker 1: bastards after all these people. I truly wouldn't be like

1874
01:36:15,960 --> 01:36:19,280
Speaker 1: I hate you for what you've done. I can't understand it.

1875
01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:23,840
Speaker 1: And I'm mystified, Um, at the level of hate and

1876
01:36:23,880 --> 01:36:26,760
Speaker 1: destruction we as human beings are able to cause. It's

1877
01:36:26,760 --> 01:36:32,120
Speaker 1: just it's never ending. Yeah, it's it's it's amazing, and

1878
01:36:32,160 --> 01:36:34,439
Speaker 1: it is one of those things like I'm not going

1879
01:36:34,479 --> 01:36:37,840
Speaker 1: to pretend I don't see why part of what these

1880
01:36:37,840 --> 01:36:40,080
Speaker 1: people find appealing because like I am, I am someone

1881
01:36:40,120 --> 01:36:42,599
Speaker 1: who I don't think I'm I think as an adult,

1882
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:45,439
Speaker 1: i've ever been taken in by the American dream as

1883
01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:48,919
Speaker 1: a an ideal, but I have been taken in by

1884
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:52,000
Speaker 1: like I grew up poor and or at least poor

1885
01:36:52,080 --> 01:36:54,400
Speaker 1: by I don't know, kind of white people standards, right,

1886
01:36:54,479 --> 01:36:56,519
Speaker 1: Like we weren't we weren't in the streets, but with

1887
01:36:56,800 --> 01:36:59,280
Speaker 1: my parents were worried about like being bankrupt and stuff,

1888
01:36:59,320 --> 01:37:01,879
Speaker 1: and like it was it was really like economic anxiety

1889
01:37:01,960 --> 01:37:04,800
Speaker 1: is a huge part of my youth and it has

1890
01:37:04,920 --> 01:37:11,240
Speaker 1: kind of it did propel me to focus on making money, right,

1891
01:37:11,400 --> 01:37:14,439
Speaker 1: Like I I that has always been a huge thing

1892
01:37:14,560 --> 01:37:17,240
Speaker 1: for me is being able to like live comfortably on

1893
01:37:17,280 --> 01:37:20,920
Speaker 1: my own without any help from anybody. And that's not

1894
01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:23,960
Speaker 1: a healthy part of my personality. Like it's it's not

1895
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:26,400
Speaker 1: a good thing that I that I did. It's a

1896
01:37:26,439 --> 01:37:29,519
Speaker 1: thing that I did because of the way in which

1897
01:37:29,560 --> 01:37:32,080
Speaker 1: I grew up in sort of an inability. I had

1898
01:37:32,120 --> 01:37:36,120
Speaker 1: to kind of um like this constant fear that I

1899
01:37:36,160 --> 01:37:38,880
Speaker 1: had to say before I could accomplish anything else, Like

1900
01:37:38,920 --> 01:37:42,240
Speaker 1: I had to not be scared about finances before I

1901
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:45,599
Speaker 1: could do other things because of the it's not a

1902
01:37:45,640 --> 01:37:48,439
Speaker 1: good thing, right, it's it's not a it's not a

1903
01:37:48,439 --> 01:37:51,720
Speaker 1: good thing, but it's a I get how powerful the

1904
01:37:51,760 --> 01:37:54,760
Speaker 1: thing is. I'm looking forward to hearing more about the

1905
01:37:54,840 --> 01:37:56,920
Speaker 1: gentleman you were describing who went to the school but

1906
01:37:57,040 --> 01:38:00,880
Speaker 1: didn't come out brainwashed. Yeah. It's a really interesting and guy, Yeah,

1907
01:38:01,040 --> 01:38:03,120
Speaker 1: how did you? How were you like one of I

1908
01:38:03,120 --> 01:38:06,240
Speaker 1: imagine very few people who were like no, this is

1909
01:38:06,320 --> 01:38:10,760
Speaker 1: insane happening around us. There's some people who just kind

1910
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:15,200
Speaker 1: of have that ability, even within you know, training regiments

1911
01:38:15,200 --> 01:38:17,960
Speaker 1: that are designed to I have a friend who was

1912
01:38:18,080 --> 01:38:20,200
Speaker 1: um who was in you know we're talking about the

1913
01:38:20,200 --> 01:38:21,880
Speaker 1: Marines and Marines, and like one of the things he'll

1914
01:38:21,920 --> 01:38:23,880
Speaker 1: say about basic training is that like he kind of

1915
01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:26,519
Speaker 1: immediately realized, like, oh, this is a game, and I

1916
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:29,920
Speaker 1: have to pretend to agree with and believe and react

1917
01:38:29,960 --> 01:38:33,280
Speaker 1: in certain ways in order to succeed at it and

1918
01:38:33,280 --> 01:38:36,000
Speaker 1: and and get through this part that like I know

1919
01:38:36,080 --> 01:38:38,160
Speaker 1: what they're trying to do and how they're trying to

1920
01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:40,160
Speaker 1: alter me, and I have to pretend like it's having

1921
01:38:40,160 --> 01:38:42,400
Speaker 1: this effect so that I can get through this part

1922
01:38:42,520 --> 01:38:44,760
Speaker 1: and and do the stuff I guess that I want

1923
01:38:44,800 --> 01:38:47,800
Speaker 1: to do right like some some people just have. And

1924
01:38:48,080 --> 01:38:49,680
Speaker 1: you get the feeling from this guy that he kind

1925
01:38:49,680 --> 01:38:51,360
Speaker 1: of like goes to this school and he doesn't agree

1926
01:38:51,400 --> 01:38:53,479
Speaker 1: with a lot of what's happening and he but he's

1927
01:38:53,520 --> 01:38:57,240
Speaker 1: able to see what's happening to other people there. And

1928
01:38:57,840 --> 01:39:01,439
Speaker 1: it's good you know that he went and did that

1929
01:39:01,479 --> 01:39:04,080
Speaker 1: and brought back this experience so we're able to understand

1930
01:39:04,080 --> 01:39:07,000
Speaker 1: it on a human level. Right, we need witnesses. Yes,

1931
01:39:07,920 --> 01:39:12,360
Speaker 1: not bad that this guy brought that experience to us. Yes, yes, yes,

1932
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:15,639
Speaker 1: this is exactly what James Baldwin talks about, is being

1933
01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:18,639
Speaker 1: a witness. It's a it's a legitimate role. Some people

1934
01:39:18,840 --> 01:39:21,559
Speaker 1: frown upon it because you're literally like I think some

1935
01:39:21,560 --> 01:39:23,599
Speaker 1: people view a witness is like just taking up space

1936
01:39:23,600 --> 01:39:27,599
Speaker 1: and documenting the story. But by not participating and by

1937
01:39:27,640 --> 01:39:31,920
Speaker 1: not stopping, you can better explain how things happened. And

1938
01:39:32,040 --> 01:39:35,439
Speaker 1: it's it's just as important as our quote unquote heroes

1939
01:39:35,479 --> 01:39:37,519
Speaker 1: who are are changing the world for the better. Like

1940
01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:40,840
Speaker 1: it's it's where would we be without understanding how we

1941
01:39:40,880 --> 01:39:42,880
Speaker 1: got here in the first place? Yeah, I mean, and

1942
01:39:42,920 --> 01:39:45,120
Speaker 1: it is one of those things like one of the critiques.

1943
01:39:45,160 --> 01:39:47,880
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, like like Leslie Gill and her book,

1944
01:39:48,000 --> 01:39:50,800
Speaker 1: like they didn't stop anything. You know, the School of

1945
01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:54,559
Speaker 1: the America's was kind of already passed its period of

1946
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:57,720
Speaker 1: real influence, of major influence by the time, you know,

1947
01:39:57,760 --> 01:40:01,280
Speaker 1: her book came out. But it's important that it be

1948
01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:05,360
Speaker 1: documented that we understand this stuff because it if if

1949
01:40:05,400 --> 01:40:07,360
Speaker 1: the information is allowed to get out to the people

1950
01:40:07,360 --> 01:40:10,559
Speaker 1: it needs to, it can act in building our cultural

1951
01:40:10,560 --> 01:40:12,600
Speaker 1: immunity to some of this stuff. And we have to

1952
01:40:12,640 --> 01:40:15,519
Speaker 1: have we have to let it do that. We have to.

1953
01:40:16,320 --> 01:40:21,240
Speaker 1: We can't we can't not learn these lessons, which is

1954
01:40:21,320 --> 01:40:23,960
Speaker 1: why I think and you get the feeling one of

1955
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:25,800
Speaker 1: the this is really The School of the Americas is

1956
01:40:25,840 --> 01:40:28,639
Speaker 1: such an amazing book to me because of the depth

1957
01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:32,120
Speaker 1: Leslie gil goes into the number she talks to instructors

1958
01:40:32,120 --> 01:40:34,240
Speaker 1: at the school and in from different errors, She talks

1959
01:40:34,240 --> 01:40:36,439
Speaker 1: to people who went there, She talks to their victims,

1960
01:40:36,439 --> 01:40:40,600
Speaker 1: like she she is really you can see motivated and

1961
01:40:40,640 --> 01:40:42,680
Speaker 1: she is She's a person who had spent a lot

1962
01:40:42,680 --> 01:40:45,400
Speaker 1: of time living in and around and like writing about

1963
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:48,519
Speaker 1: Latin America and Latin American issue. She's a very very

1964
01:40:48,880 --> 01:40:54,439
Speaker 1: um competent um, you know, ethnographer, I guess you'd say, um,

1965
01:40:54,479 --> 01:40:56,439
Speaker 1: but you get this feeling that it was there was

1966
01:40:56,479 --> 01:40:58,760
Speaker 1: this kind of she understood how important it was for

1967
01:40:58,840 --> 01:41:01,800
Speaker 1: the story of what this place did to people, how

1968
01:41:01,960 --> 01:41:05,480
Speaker 1: it succeeded in its goal, in the consequences, how crucial

1969
01:41:05,520 --> 01:41:07,920
Speaker 1: that is to get out to people, because I mean,

1970
01:41:07,920 --> 01:41:10,160
Speaker 1: for one thing, it's happening in Oregon right now, like

1971
01:41:10,200 --> 01:41:13,240
Speaker 1: we're seeing School of the America's ship starting just the

1972
01:41:13,320 --> 01:41:16,920
Speaker 1: earliest stages, thankfully not the mass grave stages, but the

1973
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:19,639
Speaker 1: things that could lead to that if people aren't careful,

1974
01:41:20,040 --> 01:41:26,080
Speaker 1: like it's it's happening here, So we should understand what

1975
01:41:26,280 --> 01:41:30,000
Speaker 1: happened over there. Um that we did to these people,

1976
01:41:30,120 --> 01:41:32,439
Speaker 1: you know that that we did in a lot of cases,

1977
01:41:32,520 --> 01:41:34,479
Speaker 1: and and a lot of them did too, like you know,

1978
01:41:34,520 --> 01:41:36,640
Speaker 1: not too. I don't want to, like you don't want to.

1979
01:41:36,680 --> 01:41:38,800
Speaker 1: One of the problems sometimes with criticizing like the US

1980
01:41:38,880 --> 01:41:41,240
Speaker 1: influence on places like this is like then you you

1981
01:41:41,240 --> 01:41:43,639
Speaker 1: you don't criticize the fact that there's a lot of

1982
01:41:43,680 --> 01:41:45,800
Speaker 1: you know, folks who live in those countries and come

1983
01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:47,280
Speaker 1: from those countries who did a lot of fund up

1984
01:41:47,280 --> 01:41:51,320
Speaker 1: ship too. But like we what happened over there, the

1985
01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:54,080
Speaker 1: violence they committed in our name was part of a

1986
01:41:54,160 --> 01:41:58,200
Speaker 1: plan that US leaders had and executed, and that's important

1987
01:41:58,200 --> 01:42:03,439
Speaker 1: to know. So Joe out. We'll talk more later. Let's

1988
01:42:03,439 --> 01:42:06,800
Speaker 1: start two. Is it coming? I look forward to it.

1989
01:42:07,040 --> 01:42:12,759
Speaker 1: You want to plug anything? Uh, if you're intrigued by

1990
01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:15,559
Speaker 1: any of the comments I made about black representation in

1991
01:42:15,600 --> 01:42:18,040
Speaker 1: America and the horror story that that is. I am

1992
01:42:18,120 --> 01:42:20,719
Speaker 1: recapping Lovecraft Country for the A V Club right now.

1993
01:42:21,280 --> 01:42:25,919
Speaker 1: Uh is a doozy. There is a lot happening, especially

1994
01:42:25,960 --> 01:42:27,560
Speaker 1: if I don't know when this will be released. But

1995
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:29,600
Speaker 1: if y'all have seen episode five, then you know what

1996
01:42:29,720 --> 01:42:32,720
Speaker 1: goes down. Um, so yeah, check that out. Otherwise, you

1997
01:42:32,760 --> 01:42:35,200
Speaker 1: can find me all over the internet at Joel Monique.

1998
01:42:35,280 --> 01:42:37,479
Speaker 1: That's j O E L L E M O N

1999
01:42:37,520 --> 01:42:40,559
Speaker 1: I q U E. Uh. Yeah, come chat with me

2000
01:42:40,600 --> 01:42:43,639
Speaker 1: about the crazy bastards. You muys talk about always fascinated

2001
01:42:43,680 --> 01:42:46,760
Speaker 1: by the show, and uh, you can't find me at

2002
01:42:46,800 --> 01:42:49,479
Speaker 1: those same places online because I am not Joel Monique.

2003
01:42:49,600 --> 01:42:53,320
Speaker 1: So that's the end of You can follow Robert on

2004
01:42:53,360 --> 01:42:55,479
Speaker 1: Twitter and I right, okay, you can follow us on Twitter.

2005
01:42:55,600 --> 01:42:59,200
Speaker 1: Scarab bastards thought we have a t public store. Uh,

2006
01:42:59,600 --> 01:43:02,000
Speaker 1: don't do it. I don't know. I was trying to

2007
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:03,840
Speaker 1: explain to them where they couldn't find me because I

2008
01:43:03,840 --> 01:43:05,599
Speaker 1: thought that would be useful to people. Yeah, but they

2009
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:09,479
Speaker 1: contact you. Post is important, all right, Well, thank you

2010
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:23,360
Speaker 1: everybody Twitter. Uh, don't be in a fire, um,