WEBVTT - Is there a torture manual?

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<v Speaker 1>Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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<v Speaker 1>from How Stuff Works dot Com? Stuff you should know

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<v Speaker 1>and resolves online fraud safe Secure Visa. Hi, and welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, a staff writer here

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<v Speaker 1>at How Stuff Works dot Com. With me is my

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<v Speaker 1>fellow staff writer, Charles W. Bryant. How are you, Chuck.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm doing well, Josh. You seem not yourself today and

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<v Speaker 1>feeling it may have something to do with our subject

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<v Speaker 1>and subject matter exact torture, which is not fun. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>At first, torture, before I wrote this article torture, it

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<v Speaker 1>seemed like this kind of amorphous blob that happened to

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<v Speaker 1>pour SAPs in like other countries. And the more I

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<v Speaker 1>started researching UM is their torture manual, I did actually

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<v Speaker 1>several articles articles on torture UM. It became very real

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<v Speaker 1>and it is a really serious, somber subject that and

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<v Speaker 1>it happens to a lot of people actually sadly still

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<v Speaker 1>today it is. But you have to do your research.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not the kind of thing that you know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>not talked about. No, you don't want it all over

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<v Speaker 1>the evening news. No, definitely not. It doesn't go well

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<v Speaker 1>with dinner at all. Um, but it does happen, and

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<v Speaker 1>the things that do happen are are very serious. That

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<v Speaker 1>the in the introduction I mentioned May two thousand seven

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<v Speaker 1>raid on a Baghdad house and it looked like a

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<v Speaker 1>normal house from the outside. Inside they found an Alcada

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<v Speaker 1>torture manual and it had these basically how to drawings

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<v Speaker 1>of how to remove an eyeball with a drill, how

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<v Speaker 1>to how to squeeze a person to death by putting

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<v Speaker 1>their head in the vice or using a hot clothes

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<v Speaker 1>iron for you know, on the chest right. And they

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<v Speaker 1>also found like the instruments of torture, like a house

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<v Speaker 1>of horrors, blow torches and drills and all the stuff

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<v Speaker 1>you needed to carry out these things. Yeah, that's pretty scary.

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<v Speaker 1>So it really kind of raised our our eyebrows around

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<v Speaker 1>here when that story broke and kind of got us

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<v Speaker 1>looking into this, and um, from some research we found

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<v Speaker 1>out that that torture manuals are not all that uncommon

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<v Speaker 1>in the world scarily enough. And there's two pretty much

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<v Speaker 1>the two um, the two seminal manuals on torture. We're

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<v Speaker 1>both written by the American CIA. You know about this, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit. I mean they did most of this,

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<v Speaker 1>in fairness in the nineteen fifties, right, the research, I

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<v Speaker 1>think the initial research. Yeah, they basically we're trying to

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<v Speaker 1>figure out what worked and what didn't write and I

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<v Speaker 1>think what they've found and what's kind of round the

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<v Speaker 1>accepted in the torture community is, uh, that it's psychological

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<v Speaker 1>torture is really what what gets people talking. Physical torture

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't work, right, because if you're physically torturing someone, they'll

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<v Speaker 1>say anything just to keep you know, the clamps off

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<v Speaker 1>of the nipples exactly. It produces unreliable data. You come

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<v Speaker 1>at somebody with the car battery, they're going to tell

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<v Speaker 1>you whatever that you want to hear, you know. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the first the first edition came out in nineteen sixty three,

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<v Speaker 1>after at least the decade of you know, um the

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<v Speaker 1>c I A spiking one another's um drinks with LSD

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<v Speaker 1>at parties. Might Yeah, and that's they also apparently used

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<v Speaker 1>to experiment on UM unsuspecting John's in San Francisco, Brothels.

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<v Speaker 1>The good old days, Yeah, pretty much when the CIA

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<v Speaker 1>could do absolutely anything at wanted. UM. So they did

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<v Speaker 1>all these tests. They they they tested on civilians, they

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<v Speaker 1>tested on our a military, they tested on people who

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<v Speaker 1>were captured, and took all this experience and actually wrote

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<v Speaker 1>it down. And you had the Kubark Manual, right, which

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<v Speaker 1>is a torture manual. It is it's it's exactly that's

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<v Speaker 1>exactly right. It tells you what to do, what not

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<v Speaker 1>to do, why you shouldn't do it, why you should

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<v Speaker 1>do it. And Kubark is the code word for UM,

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<v Speaker 1>the CIA and Vietnam. Okay, I didn't. I was gonna

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<v Speaker 1>ask you if that was someone's name or yeah, it

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<v Speaker 1>was the It was the codename used for the CIA

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<v Speaker 1>and Vietnam. And that's pretty much when it when it

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<v Speaker 1>first came into use. Well, that was the first edition.

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<v Speaker 1>The second edition UM was pretty much the the culmination

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<v Speaker 1>of twenty years of using Kubark and finding that tweaking,

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<v Speaker 1>tweaking the original material based on results from what they

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<v Speaker 1>get from the prisoners. The information I would assume, right, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean you can test and test and test, but

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<v Speaker 1>when you use something in the field, you're going to

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<v Speaker 1>really find out what works and what doesn't. Right, So

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<v Speaker 1>that culminated in the Human Resource Exploitation Manual. That's that's

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<v Speaker 1>a fun range. That one was from twenty years after

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<v Speaker 1>Kubark came out, UM, and it's it's very much based

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<v Speaker 1>along the same lines. Basically, you know, the rule of

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<v Speaker 1>thumb is, uh, well, you don't turn the screws on thumbs.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, physical torture is not good psychological works, UM,

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<v Speaker 1>which means like you know, maybe cranking heavy metal music

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<v Speaker 1>really loud. Seven blindfolding and the waterboarding was an issue

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<v Speaker 1>not too long ago and still is apparently, I know,

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<v Speaker 1>UM Congress is uh finds water boarding very distasteful. In

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<v Speaker 1>researching this, I found that UM, time and time again,

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<v Speaker 1>Congress gets wind of some scandal and UM holds hearings

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<v Speaker 1>and outlaws torture and then see he goes, Okay, we're

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<v Speaker 1>not We're not gonna do it. Sept for these fourteen

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<v Speaker 1>guys who are given special and right now there's fourteen

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<v Speaker 1>people who are authorized in the CIA to use water

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<v Speaker 1>boarding as an interrogation, so they'll say that we don't

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<v Speaker 1>want to torture anymore, but we really want to torture

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<v Speaker 1>these guys before we outlaw it, right, And I can

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<v Speaker 1>see part of me sees the value in uh in

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<v Speaker 1>using torture. I'm I'm a utilitarian in many ways, where

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<v Speaker 1>killing one person to save a thousand just makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>But at the same time, there's a real gray area,

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<v Speaker 1>like when you start, it's tough to stop it. Where

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<v Speaker 1>do you draw the line right? And how do you

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<v Speaker 1>separate yourself from the enemy exactly? Yeah, and as the democracy,

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<v Speaker 1>we kind of have to set an example for everybody else,

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<v Speaker 1>and I believe that's true. Yeah, well, we just barely

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<v Speaker 1>scratch the surface. There's several torture articles, but the one

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about is is there a torture manual? And

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<v Speaker 1>you can read all of them on how stuff works

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<v Speaker 1>dot com and hang tight to find out what article

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<v Speaker 1>makes one of our colleagues skin crawl. Right after this

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<v Speaker 1>stuff you should know is brought to you by Visa.

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<v Speaker 1>We all have things to think about, like, say, what's

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<v Speaker 1>whether to buy the three or six megapixel camera. But

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<v Speaker 1>thankfully we don't need to think about online fraud because

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<v Speaker 1>for every purchase you make, Visa keeps an eye out

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<v Speaker 1>for peace of mind, safe, secure Visa. So, Chuck, you

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<v Speaker 1>want to tell him what article it is and what colleague. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>the colleague is our fellow staff writer, Jonathan Strickland. And

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<v Speaker 1>the article is how entomophagy works. Yes, the eating of

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<v Speaker 1>bugs will cuisine. Yes. Mr Strickland, who is, like Chuck said,

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<v Speaker 1>one of our fellow writers, is also a fellow podcaster.

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<v Speaker 1>You can find his podcast, a Tech Stuff also on iTunes.

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<v Speaker 1>Good luck with that. But anytime that that's on the

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<v Speaker 1>home page that his skin kind of crawls. He freaked

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<v Speaker 1>out a little bit. Maybe hides under his desk more

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<v Speaker 1>than usual. Right, Yeah, he's uh when I mean, you

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<v Speaker 1>see a spider called cross the floor and Stricklin's up

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<v Speaker 1>on his desk. Yeah, it's it's pretty bad. He has

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<v Speaker 1>a weak constitution. We have fun with him every April

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<v Speaker 1>Fool's Day or you know, every Tuesday whatever. So if

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<v Speaker 1>you want to know about the eating of bugs. Read

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<v Speaker 1>how intomafage he works. How stuff works dot com for

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<v Speaker 1>more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it

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<v Speaker 1>how stuff works dot com. Let us know what you think.

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