1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: from How Stuff Works dot Com? Stuff you should know 4 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: is brought to you by Visa. We all have things 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: we like to think about online fraud. Shouldn't do one 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: of them, because with every purchase, Visa prevents to texts 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: and resolves online fraud safe Secure Visa. Hi, and welcome 8 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, a staff writer here 9 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: at How Stuff Works dot Com. With me is my 10 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: fellow staff writer, Charles W. Bryant. How are you, Chuck. 11 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: I'm doing well, Josh. You seem not yourself today and 12 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: feeling it may have something to do with our subject 13 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: and subject matter exact torture, which is not fun. You know. 14 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: At first, torture, before I wrote this article torture, it 15 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: seemed like this kind of amorphous blob that happened to 16 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: pour SAPs in like other countries. And the more I 17 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: started researching UM is their torture manual, I did actually 18 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: several articles articles on torture UM. It became very real 19 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: and it is a really serious, somber subject that and 20 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: it happens to a lot of people actually sadly still 21 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: today it is. But you have to do your research. 22 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: It's not the kind of thing that you know, it's 23 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 1: not talked about. No, you don't want it all over 24 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: the evening news. No, definitely not. It doesn't go well 25 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: with dinner at all. Um, but it does happen, and 26 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: the things that do happen are are very serious. That 27 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 1: the in the introduction I mentioned May two thousand seven 28 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: raid on a Baghdad house and it looked like a 29 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 1: normal house from the outside. Inside they found an Alcada 30 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: torture manual and it had these basically how to drawings 31 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: of how to remove an eyeball with a drill, how 32 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: to how to squeeze a person to death by putting 33 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: their head in the vice or using a hot clothes 34 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: iron for you know, on the chest right. And they 35 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: also found like the instruments of torture, like a house 36 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: of horrors, blow torches and drills and all the stuff 37 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: you needed to carry out these things. Yeah, that's pretty scary. 38 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: So it really kind of raised our our eyebrows around 39 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: here when that story broke and kind of got us 40 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: looking into this, and um, from some research we found 41 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: out that that torture manuals are not all that uncommon 42 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,119 Speaker 1: in the world scarily enough. And there's two pretty much 43 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,519 Speaker 1: the two um, the two seminal manuals on torture. We're 44 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: both written by the American CIA. You know about this, yeah, 45 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 1: a little bit. I mean they did most of this, 46 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: in fairness in the nineteen fifties, right, the research, I 47 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: think the initial research. Yeah, they basically we're trying to 48 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: figure out what worked and what didn't write and I 49 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: think what they've found and what's kind of round the 50 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 1: accepted in the torture community is, uh, that it's psychological 51 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: torture is really what what gets people talking. Physical torture 52 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: doesn't work, right, because if you're physically torturing someone, they'll 53 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: say anything just to keep you know, the clamps off 54 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: of the nipples exactly. It produces unreliable data. You come 55 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: at somebody with the car battery, they're going to tell 56 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,839 Speaker 1: you whatever that you want to hear, you know. But yeah, 57 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: the first the first edition came out in nineteen sixty three, 58 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: after at least the decade of you know, um the 59 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: c I A spiking one another's um drinks with LSD 60 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:10,399 Speaker 1: at parties. Might Yeah, and that's they also apparently used 61 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: to experiment on UM unsuspecting John's in San Francisco, Brothels. 62 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: The good old days, Yeah, pretty much when the CIA 63 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: could do absolutely anything at wanted. UM. So they did 64 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: all these tests. They they they tested on civilians, they 65 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: tested on our a military, they tested on people who 66 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: were captured, and took all this experience and actually wrote 67 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: it down. And you had the Kubark Manual, right, which 68 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: is a torture manual. It is it's it's exactly that's 69 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: exactly right. It tells you what to do, what not 70 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: to do, why you shouldn't do it, why you should 71 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: do it. And Kubark is the code word for UM, 72 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: the CIA and Vietnam. Okay, I didn't. I was gonna 73 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: ask you if that was someone's name or yeah, it 74 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: was the It was the codename used for the CIA 75 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: and Vietnam. And that's pretty much when it when it 76 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: first came into use. Well, that was the first edition. 77 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: The second edition UM was pretty much the the culmination 78 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: of twenty years of using Kubark and finding that tweaking, 79 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: tweaking the original material based on results from what they 80 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: get from the prisoners. The information I would assume, right, yeah, 81 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: I mean you can test and test and test, but 82 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: when you use something in the field, you're going to 83 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: really find out what works and what doesn't. Right, So 84 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: that culminated in the Human Resource Exploitation Manual. That's that's 85 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: a fun range. That one was from twenty years after 86 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,679 Speaker 1: Kubark came out, UM, and it's it's very much based 87 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: along the same lines. Basically, you know, the rule of 88 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: thumb is, uh, well, you don't turn the screws on thumbs. 89 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: You know, physical torture is not good psychological works, UM, 90 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: which means like you know, maybe cranking heavy metal music 91 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: really loud. Seven blindfolding and the waterboarding was an issue 92 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: not too long ago and still is apparently, I know, 93 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: UM Congress is uh finds water boarding very distasteful. In 94 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: researching this, I found that UM, time and time again, 95 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: Congress gets wind of some scandal and UM holds hearings 96 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: and outlaws torture and then see he goes, Okay, we're 97 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 1: not We're not gonna do it. Sept for these fourteen 98 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: guys who are given special and right now there's fourteen 99 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 1: people who are authorized in the CIA to use water 100 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: boarding as an interrogation, so they'll say that we don't 101 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: want to torture anymore, but we really want to torture 102 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: these guys before we outlaw it, right, And I can 103 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: see part of me sees the value in uh in 104 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: using torture. I'm I'm a utilitarian in many ways, where 105 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: killing one person to save a thousand just makes sense. 106 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: But at the same time, there's a real gray area, 107 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 1: like when you start, it's tough to stop it. Where 108 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: do you draw the line right? And how do you 109 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: separate yourself from the enemy exactly? Yeah, and as the democracy, 110 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: we kind of have to set an example for everybody else, 111 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: and I believe that's true. Yeah, well, we just barely 112 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: scratch the surface. There's several torture articles, but the one 113 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: we're talking about is is there a torture manual? And 114 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: you can read all of them on how stuff works 115 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: dot com and hang tight to find out what article 116 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 1: makes one of our colleagues skin crawl. Right after this 117 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: stuff you should know is brought to you by Visa. 118 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: We all have things to think about, like, say, what's 119 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: the best site to buy a new leather jacket, or 120 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: whether to buy the three or six megapixel camera. But 121 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: thankfully we don't need to think about online fraud because 122 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: for every purchase you make, Visa keeps an eye out 123 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: for fraud with real time fraud monitoring and by making 124 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: sure you're not liable for any unauthorized purchases. How's that 125 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: for peace of mind, safe, secure Visa. So, Chuck, you 126 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: want to tell him what article it is and what colleague. Yes, 127 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: the colleague is our fellow staff writer, Jonathan Strickland. And 128 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: the article is how entomophagy works. Yes, the eating of 129 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: bugs will cuisine. Yes. Mr Strickland, who is, like Chuck said, 130 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: one of our fellow writers, is also a fellow podcaster. 131 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:47,799 Speaker 1: You can find his podcast, a Tech Stuff also on iTunes. 132 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: Good luck with that. But anytime that that's on the 133 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: home page that his skin kind of crawls. He freaked 134 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: out a little bit. Maybe hides under his desk more 135 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: than usual. Right, Yeah, he's uh when I mean, you 136 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: see a spider called cross the floor and Stricklin's up 137 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: on his desk. Yeah, it's it's pretty bad. He has 138 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: a weak constitution. We have fun with him every April 139 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: Fool's Day or you know, every Tuesday whatever. So if 140 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: you want to know about the eating of bugs. Read 141 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: how intomafage he works. How stuff works dot com for 142 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it 143 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. Let us know what you think. 144 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: Send an email to podcast at how stuff works dot com. 145 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 146 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: It's ready, are you