WEBVTT - TechStuff Fuels Up Part 2 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:07.200 Get in touch with technology with text stuff from how 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:13.520 stuff works dot com. Hey, they're and welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.160 I'm Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren, and we're going to 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:20.000 have part two of our discussion on alternative fuels. Yes, 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:22.680 in our in our first part, we went over some 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:26.040 of the commons alternates that are or the common alternates 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.640 really that are going on, which are bio diesel, ethanol, hydrogen, 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:33.720 natural gas, propane, and electricity. Wow you row them off? Yeah, 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:36.640 that's exactly what we talked about. And now in this episode, 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.960 we really want to focus on what are the challenges 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:44.720 of getting away from a gasoline based fuel and really 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:48.400 focusing on one of these alternatives to make the alternative 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.000 actually the primary as opposed to just an alternative, right, 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:54.480 because a lot of these seem like really good ideas 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:57.520 in theory kind of sort of you know, it's they 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:01.000 they burned cleaner and are it's some of them are renewable, 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.399 which is great, right, But there's some challenges, I mean, 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:07.199 some major challenges, and such is why they haven't taken 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:09.360 every yet. Yeah, that's that's one of the many reasons. 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.360 And and it's we think it's important to keep in 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:15.160 mind what those challenges are, because it gives you a 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:17.959 more realistic view of what you need to do in 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:21.480 order to to make this happen. It's not that I 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:24.520 think that we shouldn't switch from gasoline to something else. 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:26.399 It's just that I think that it's important that we 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:28.880 are honest with ourselves so that way we can come 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:32.680 to the right decision when it comes to figuring out 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.959 what the alternative should be for everybody. Now, from an 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:40.319 individual basis, this is a much easier decision if you 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:43.640 have the means to to buy the sort of vehicle 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.960 you want to sure as as a single consumer. Um. 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:49.360 You know, with with these options available to you can 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:52.240 make you can make any number of decisions. Right. You 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:54.520 could get one of those f f vs we talked 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:56.840 about and use a higher blend of ethanol. You might 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.920 be able to get a car that can run bio 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:03.400 diesel with a decent be blend. Or you might get 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:05.320 an electric vehicle. You know, there are a lot of 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:07.600 different options open to you. But if we're talking about 0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:11.200 rolling this out to a wide yeah, but that countrywider 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:14.680 or globally. Um. You know, the reason that gasoline caught 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.160 on was that it was the cheapest and most efficient 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:23.840 fuel available at the time, and that hasn't changed enough. 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:29.840 And it's had more than a century to become a 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:36.640 a an institutionalized infrastructure, something that is so established and 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:42.000 so central to the way we do everything from transportation 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:46.920 to UH to other kinds of commerce, that it's no 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.600 surprise that it will be very difficult to displace gasoline. 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:55.320 It's just we We've invested countless billions of dollars around 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:57.280 the globe, not just here in the United States, in 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:01.600 this infrastructure, and it's it's got a lot of momentum 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:03.639 behind it. So how do how do we replace it? 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.919 And why would we even want to? So I think 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:09.520 first we should probably look at the WISE and then 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:15.520 look at how because and I put the big question 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:17.959 mark because it's it's a it's a tough question. So 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:23.120 we kind of divided up the WISE into three major categories, 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:26.320 and um, you know, you have to ask yourself this question, 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.840 why do you want to get off gasoline? Because the 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:33.600 answer to that will determine in part which alternative fuels 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:38.040 with right right, Because one alternative fuel might be great 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.120 for one part of this answer, but not so great 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:42.840 for another. So one of the ones I think leaps 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.360 to mind for a lot of people is the environmental 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:50.720 impact of petroleum based products and how using a combustible 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:54.200 engine and burning this stuff means we create a lot 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.640 of emissions that are pollutants that are toxic, that are 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:01.960 greenhouse gases that can affect client change. These are all 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.600 things that a lot of people keep in mind when 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.240 they're talking about we need an alternative fuel source. Yeah, 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:09.560 and a lot of these alternative fuel sources are really 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:13.000 good about that. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, we remember we 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:16.720 divided these up in the previous episode in large categories. 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:20.240 So for example, we had biofuels, and biofuels are things 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:24.120 like biodiesel, which is made out of animal fats or 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:28.160 vegetable oils or even recycled restaurant grease and then process 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:31.279 to become a diesel fuel. Most often it is blended 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:35.760 with actual petroleum based diesel uh, and it tends to 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:39.880 emit fewer pollutants. The higher the concentration of biodiesel, the 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:44.159 fewer pollutants it tends to emit, And the downside is 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:48.159 the less energy dense it tends to be. So, in 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:51.280 other words, honestly true, for I think everything that we 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.240 were talking about in the last episode. Everything everything tends 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:56.160 to be if it's if it's something that's mixed with 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.839 gasoline or diesel, then it tends to be have have 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:04.880 higher energy density. The more the petroleum based product is 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:08.920 mixed in, the less of it. That's they're the less 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.000 uh dense as far as energy is concerned. The fuel 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.240 is so you don't go as far on a full 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.240 tank if you're using pure biodiesel as you would if 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:19.119 you were used a blend that only had a small 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:21.840 amount of biodiesel in it. Same thing is true of ethanol, 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.640 which is with gasoline. This is ethyl alcohol that you 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:28.880 would mix with gasoline. Increases the octane, lowers the energy density. Um. 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:35.320 So they both tend to emit fewer pollutants than pure 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:39.159 gasoline or pure diesel. Are a few fewer carbon dioxide, yeah, 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:42.080 I fewer carbon dioxide emissions. You do have to keep 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:45.080 in mind that some of these could emit completely different 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.920 chemicals that could be you know, toxic in their own way. 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:53.520 But biodiesel, for example, is non toxic. It's biodegradable. Uh. 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.800 The emissions tend to be much less severe than the 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:01.719 petroleum based ones. It still does emit some toxins and 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.680 some pollutants, just not nearly as much as the petroleum 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.400 based kind. Same thing as is more or less true 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.720 of ethanol. The higher concentration of ethanol you go anyway, 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.880 lower concentrations means that there's enough gasoline there for uh 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:19.479 for you to emit fewer but not zero emissions. And 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:22.120 then you've got the fossil fuels. So you've got the 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.200 biofuels with biodiesel and ethanol. You have the fossil fuels 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:28.440 that includes natural gas and propane also known as liquid 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:32.800 petroleum gas. Both of these are well natural gas we 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:36.600 find when we're also mining for crude oil, and propane 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.040 is something we get through the whole processing of natural 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.200 gas and crude oil, the refining of crude oil. So 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:45.040 both of these are in a way kind of like 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.359 byproducts of going after oil. And although you couldn't have 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.640 a mind that's just for natural gas as well, you can. Yeah, 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:57.000 so these could still produce pollutants. They do tend to 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:01.360 produce fewer pollutants than gasoline or d easel, but they 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.320 still do produce pollutants, and sometimes again the shift is 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.039 on different pollutants than it would be with a gasoline 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:11.440 based engine or a diesel based engine. So environmentally, uh, 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:16.400 it goes uh, it's it's still I think favorable, but 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.960 it's not a great solution. In other words, you're slowing 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:21.480 down the amount of emissions you are putting out into 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:26.000 the environment, but you're not eliminating and so you're still right, 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:28.840 um and and also you know, the the other trade 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.400 off is that you're getting less energy out of it. 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:33.960 Again again the same sort of thing where you you 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:36.240 cannot go as far, so you have to use more 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:38.560 fuel to go the same distance as you would with 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:43.040 a gasoline or diesel powered vehicle. Then you have hydrogen. 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:45.880 If you're using it in an internal combustion engine, you 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:49.040 are emitting nitrous or nitrogen oxide I should say not 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.880 nitrous oxide a little bit different, but nitrogen oxide. And 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.760 it's a uh that you know, that's a pollutant. So 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.200 that's a problem. But if you are using it as 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.400 a fuel cell, the only real emissions you have are 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:04.800 heat and water. Yeah, so water vapor is a greenhouse gas, 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:07.440 but it can be incorporated into the water cycle a 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:12.440 little more readily than say anything else. So anyway, carbon monoxide, 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:16.520 carbon monoxide not not, so it's much better than carbon monoxide. Um, 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:20.320 so you've got uh that as a benefit. But then 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:23.480 the downside that we've mentioned before is that in order 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.160 to get hydrogen, you have to pour energy into stuff 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:28.440 to break molecular bonds to free up the hydrogen in 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:32.640 the first place, because it doesn't really appear unbonded to 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:35.040 stuff in any great amount on Earth right right once 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:37.400 you once you're burning it, it's fairly efficient. But but 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:39.840 to get it to the state where you can, yeah, 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:41.839 you have to use a lot of energy. So if 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:44.240 that energy is coming from fossil fuels, this is true 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.800 by the way of all of the different ones we're 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:51.560 talking about biofuels, uh, the natural gas or propane, we 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.120 have to use energy to get at this fuel and 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:56.640 process this fuel before we can use it in any 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:58.920 sort of vehicle. Right. That The thing is with with 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.440 gasoline is that all of that work was done by 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:04.120 the Earth of the course of billions and billions of years. 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.920 Although we do have to process oil to make it, guess, 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:09.440 but a lot less than we do for for for 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:12.000 bio fuels or ethanol. So it's it's one of those 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:15.160 things where uh, if that energy to do the processing 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.680 is also coming from fossil fuels, then you have to 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:22.880 worry about the environmental environmental impact of the processing part 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:25.800 of this as opposed to the fuel part, which is 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:30.000 the direct effect of electricity. Because electric electrically run vehicles. Um, 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.160 you know you're plugging them into a wall. Where is 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:34.640 the electricity coming to you from that wall? Right? Um, 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:36.840 if it's a coal processing plant, then you're not really 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.440 doing anything. Yeah, you're just uh, the pollution has just 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:43.000 been shift. But if it's if it's one of those things, 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:45.280 like you know, you're getting it from solar power or 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.880 wind power or whatever, then the electric car is a 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:51.160 great choice because you are not really putting out any 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:56.240 appreciable amount of pollutants or emissions from that vehicle. So uh, 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:59.160 if the if the energy source that's creating the electricity 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:03.360 is renewable and clean, then that's the best option for 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:07.880 an individual I think personally. Um. That being said, if 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.880 you can't guarantee that if you are getting your electricity 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.920 from a coal powered plant or something else that is 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:17.520 producing a lot of pollutants, then it could just be 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:19.679 that again, the problem has shifted to a different part 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:21.839 of the equation, Right, and and some of this is 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.560 a little bit arguable. Um. For example, with ethanol, there's 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.120 been a bunch of conflicting studies. The two major ones 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:29.680 that I've seen were one from a Cornell University that 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.080 was saying that that considering all of the energy cost 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.400 it takes to grow corn and convert it to ethanol, 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:38.319 it's a lot more energy production than you actually get 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.880 out at the end. Right. Um, Well, we'll really look 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.680 into energy return on investment towards the end of this podcast. 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:45.960 But that does mean that you're talking about land used 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:49.240 to and land use could mean that instead of using 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.240 that land to grow things that could be big carbon 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.640 sinks or grow food for people, uh, you are growing 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:57.480 stuff that's going to be used in fuel. And that 0:10:57.520 --> 0:10:59.839 also means that you have to use things like fertilizer 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.360 requires a lot of nitrogen. Uh, And that could mean 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:05.640 that you are using a lot of energy in order 0:11:05.679 --> 0:11:08.560 to create the fertilizer. And if the energy you're using 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.800 to grow the crops that are eventually going to be 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:14.080 turned to fuel, if all the energy is more than 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.280 what you are getting out of the whole fuel equation, 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.520 then you're not only causing environmental damage, it may just 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:23.360 not make sense from a big picture perspective, keeping in 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:26.160 mind that it all kind of depends on what crop 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.240 you're growing in the first place. In the United States, 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.720 it's it's chiefly corn that we use to create for ethanol, 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:35.200 and chiefly soybeans, I believe, for biodiesel, and then if 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:40.000 you are in Brazil, then sugarcane for ethanol. But you know, 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:43.960 we've also talked about the possibility of using switch grass 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:49.400 and other types of cellulose based stuff to create ethanol, 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:54.760 which would require a much lower investment and therefore, at 0:11:54.840 --> 0:12:00.840 least ideal ideally, would mean a smaller environmental impact on 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.240 land use and other issues. You know, you can get 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:05.480 into lots of complicated things with land use, you know, 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.120 even things like erosion and flooding problems. And you know, 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.880 if you've altered the landscape to an appreciable amounts that 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:13.599 you can grow the stuff that's going to fuel the 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:18.440 nation's vehicles, that can have unintended consequences. And that's why this, yeah, 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:20.320 I mean, you know, in an ideal world, you would 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:24.080 be um, you know, share sharing crop land to rotate 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:26.720 crops out and and plant something that's really going to 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.439 help the environment around it, use that for biofuels, and 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:32.480 then let it get switched out with something else, right, Yeah, yeah, 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.840 crop rotation is one of those basic farming techniques that 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.320 can really save the soil a lot of wear and 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:42.320 tear and make it easier to grow healthy crops for 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:46.320 longer um. But unfortunately, yeah, there's there's not and and farming. 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:48.959 Farming is is a technology that actually I think would 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.240 be really interesting to do a whole episode on because 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:55.080 we've got a lot of really interesting new research coming out. Sure. Yeah, 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.480 so not only is it the just the technology behind farming, 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:00.920 but just the techniques that are being used, some of 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:04.040 which are centuries old. So anyway, that's kind of the 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.079 overview of the environmental concern is the idea that this 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.439 is a very complex issue. If you're talking about the 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:11.320 biological stuff, you have to say, all right, well, what's 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:14.079 the environmental impact of growing the stuff that's going to 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.160 make this fuel. Then once the environmental impact of actually 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.880 burning that fuel with the fossil fuels, it's it's sort 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.400 of saying, well, this is assuming that we're going to 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.360 continue producing petroleum based fuels in the first place, Because 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.680 both of these are kind of byproducts of that. Um So, 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:33.839 really it's just saying, how do we offset our gasoline 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.240 consumption so that we're using something that's less harmful to 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.600 the environment. And then with hydrogen, you're talking about how 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.079 do you get the hydrogen in a way that doesn't 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.240 involve pouring a lot of more energy than it takes 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.559 to yeah, and burning fossil fuels just so that you 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:50.880 can get at some hydrogen. And then of course electricity 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.400 is how do you get the electricity buddy? And uh So, 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:56.439 like I said, it's very complex. This is one of 0:13:56.480 --> 0:13:59.000 those conversations that the more the longer you have the conversation, 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.840 the more you realize this is not a simple solution. 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:05.920 There's no easy switch we can flip. Now, let's talk 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:09.600 about the second of the three things we identified as 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:11.640 reasons you might want to switch to gasoline, and that 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:16.000 is economic reasons. So let's talk about economic from the 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:20.760 point of view of the average consumer's wallet. So, in 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:24.680 that sense, some of these fuels at right now are 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:28.640 less expensive than an equivalent amount of gasoline. And when 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:32.120 I say equivalent amount, I really mean equivalent and distance, 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:36.440 because because you can't really compare, it's like comparing apples 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:41.280 to hydrogen gas. It's um hard to do because gasoline 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:43.400 comes in liquid forms. Some of these fuels come in 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:45.280 gas forms. Some of them are in liquid forms, some 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:47.800 of them are in fuel cells, which make it, you know, complex, 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:49.880 some of them you plug into a wall. It's really 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:55.040 hard to to easily compare them, right, But in general, 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:59.360 things like electric vehicles are still still more expensive, at 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.480 least in the Nine States, still more expensive than UH 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:04.760 than gas powered cars. Like I think it kind of 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.720 goes like gas powered hybrid and an electric UM and 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:12.200 UH and and supposedly at this point, the the amount 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.120 from even a hybrid car, the amount of money that 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:18.160 you'll save by using electricity versus gasoline in the end 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.840 will pay off over the lifetime of vehicle, assuming that 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:23.720 you're keeping that vehicle for a good amount of time. 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:27.120 It's it. I've seen different studies on this where there's 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.880 been some debate about how long you would have to 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.520 maintain and keep that vehicle. And of course maintenance costs 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.320 fold into that too, And the maintenance cost for a 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:38.320 hybrid vehicle or an electric vehicle maybe higher than it 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:41.760 would be for a traditional gasoline or diesel powered vehicle. 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.960 So then you know, you have to take just like 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:47.440 with the environmental issue, it gets more complex than just 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.360 saying how expensive is this for me on a day 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.120 to day basis. You have to look at the lifetime 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.960 of the vehicle, and especially since um, since things like 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:58.120 hybrid vehicles are a little bit more costly to maintain, 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.680 just because you can't take it in to any old 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.640 shop anywhere, as a lot of the parts are specialist 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.320 parts that take a little bit more time and money 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:08.760 to get ahold of right, and and also the idea 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.360 that these are kind of still seen as specialty cars. 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.360 They're they're becoming more popular. I mean it's especially in 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:18.840 the United States. Hybrid vehicles and electric vehicles are both 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.840 becoming more popular. You're in Atlanta there kind of everywhere. Yeah, 0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:26.160 I see smart cars everywhere, but uh I see you know, 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.640 like the Prius is just about everywhere too. So it's 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.880 you know, the popularity is rising. But the as as 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:37.480 popularity rises, the nice thing about that is demand goes up. 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:42.040 Companies find more efficient means of manufacturing these vehicles, which 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.640 then allows the cost to come down. But it's a 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.680 process that takes time, so it's not like, you know, 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:53.160 year one vehicles are going to be sixty dollars and 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:55.320 you're too, they're going to be fifteen thousand, and your 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.160 three they're gonna be twelve thousand. That's not the way 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.680 it works, all right. And also, as as this cost 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.320 is dry ropping, part of that is because the infrastructure 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:06.000 that allows them to be popular is developing, and so 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.359 you're really um, you're you know, for the consumer, it 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.119 might become less expensive, but the cost of building up 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.760 that infrastructure is enormous, right, And and that's a huge 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:20.520 issue with hydrogen based UH cars, whether it's fuel cells 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:24.159 or hydrogen used as a fuel and an internal combustion engine. 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.879 There's no real existing infrastructure to get that hydrogen everywhere, 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.600 So it would mean building that out and creating hydrogen 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.120 fuel stations. And there are a few, I know, there 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:38.800 are some. California's got a few, but they are few 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:42.640 and far between, and if you were to drive anywhere 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.399 outside of that region, you would quickly realize that you 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:48.920 were stranded and you had to call mom. So the 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.320 assuming mom has giant tanks of hydrogen line around, and 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:56.320 Mom always has a giant mom Mom's purse holds a 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.840 myriad of amazing things in it Mary Poppins bags essentially 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:02.639 a bag of holding. It's from a D and D 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.399 buddies out there rill a D twenty to save against 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:12.960 being nerdy. You lost. Um. So, yeah, infrastructure is really expensive. 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.120 It can be, which then can mean that it would 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:18.320 be more expensive to the end consumer. Right that cost 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:23.240 has to be for taxpayers or Yeah, because some of 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:28.560 these are programs that the governments is encouraging through tax incentives. 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:32.199 But again that tends to mean that those incentives are 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.359 are are paid off from the by the tax payer. 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.480 So uh, and in different countries do this in different ways. 0:18:38.520 --> 0:18:41.200 You know, there's some that just they that's they allocate 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:46.800 a certain percentage of the tax income towards things like, uh, 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:50.480 encouraging these sort of industries so that they grow faster 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:54.760 or that they take hold. But that's a big issue. 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:58.719 Economic is complicated, just like environmental. Now that brings us 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.840 to the third of our reasons why we might want 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:05.159 to switch from guest Lean, and that is national security. 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:06.720 Now Here in the United States, and we said this 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:09.800 in the last podcast, in the United States, we import 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.320 a lot of our oil from other nations, and some 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.399 of those nations are nations that it would mean that 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.480 the money we are spending to get to that oil 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:21.480 maybe going to fuel instability and regions of the world. 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:26.320 It could mean that we are inadvertently giving more power 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:30.000 to parties that are going to cause lots of trouble 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.480 in different parts of the world, either directly to the 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.920 United States or to our allies, or just create instability 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:39.560 in general, which is not good for anybody really and uh, 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.879 and so there really is it really isn't the interests 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.400 of the United States and really any country to find 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:48.560 a way of being as self sufficient as possible so 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.960 that you can create as much of your energy domestically. 0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:54.160 And when I say create energy, obviously I don't think 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:58.280 you can create or destroy fuel. Yeah, yeah, domestically as 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:02.120 opposed to to internation. Really, so here here in the here, 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:05.600 in the United States, Um, we do produce each of 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:08.080 the six each each of the six fuels that we're 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:12.240 talking about here. Um, but we also produce gasoline. So yeah, 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:15.160 so if you look at the fuels that we produce, 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:20.000 the alternatives we mentioned, most of them, we produce the 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:23.119 vast majority of what we use here domestically in the 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:28.240 United States. Uh. Even so we do import some stuff, Uh, 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:31.760 specifically within natural gas and propane. We import a little 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:33.879 bit of that, although we produce quite a bit, we 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.280 also export some. So it's kind of interesting that we 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:39.720 export some and then import others. Um uh. And that's 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:41.080 you know, a lot of that has to do with 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:45.600 infrastructure and uh and transportation as well as just logistics 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:47.920 and you know, when where we can get the most 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:52.640 money out of the resources that we have available. So uh. 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:54.320 One of the things that a lot of people have 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:57.600 pointed at is alternative fuels would allow us to remove 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:00.719 our dependency on four in oil. That's usually how it's worded, 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.240 and it's really it's really decreased, I think, because we 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:07.359 are so far off from But yeah, that's that that 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:09.639 we're going to cover in our next section because because 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.439 that's the that's that's where we're gonna really look at 0:21:12.480 --> 0:21:15.000 some of the huge challenges besides the ones we've already mentioned. 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:17.159 If you think it's been challenging already, we have not 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:21.400 even scratched the surface. Uh. So Yeah, it's it's this 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:25.199 idea that we can perhaps make the United States a 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:29.359 safer place and hopefully the entire world a safer place 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:33.879 by producing more of that energy or producing more that 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:37.400 fuel rather domestically, and the same is true, like I said, 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:40.320 for nations all around the world. Since Lauren and I 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:42.000 are both from the United States, we work in the 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:44.119 United States, we live in the United States. That's what 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.320 our perspective is based on. Uh, we are aware that 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:51.760 there are people all over the world who's who thought, 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:57.240 So that that kind of covers the y and uh, 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.400 well we'll tackle the how, but before we can, let's 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:03.480 take a quick break. So, yeah, we've we covered the 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:07.040