1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with text stuff from how 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Hey, they're and welcome to tech Stuff. 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Strickland and I'm Lauren, and we're going to 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: have part two of our discussion on alternative fuels. Yes, 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: in our in our first part, we went over some 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: of the commons alternates that are or the common alternates 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: really that are going on, which are bio diesel, ethanol, hydrogen, 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: natural gas, propane, and electricity. Wow you row them off? Yeah, 9 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: that's exactly what we talked about. And now in this episode, 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: we really want to focus on what are the challenges 11 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: of getting away from a gasoline based fuel and really 12 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: focusing on one of these alternatives to make the alternative 13 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: actually the primary as opposed to just an alternative, right, 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: because a lot of these seem like really good ideas 15 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: in theory kind of sort of you know, it's they 16 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: they burned cleaner and are it's some of them are renewable, 17 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: which is great, right, But there's some challenges, I mean, 18 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,199 Speaker 1: some major challenges, and such is why they haven't taken 19 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: every yet. Yeah, that's that's one of the many reasons. 20 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: And and it's we think it's important to keep in 21 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: mind what those challenges are, because it gives you a 22 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: more realistic view of what you need to do in 23 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: order to to make this happen. It's not that I 24 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: think that we shouldn't switch from gasoline to something else. 25 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: It's just that I think that it's important that we 26 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: are honest with ourselves so that way we can come 27 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: to the right decision when it comes to figuring out 28 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 1: what the alternative should be for everybody. Now, from an 29 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 1: individual basis, this is a much easier decision if you 30 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: have the means to to buy the sort of vehicle 31 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: you want to sure as as a single consumer. Um. 32 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: You know, with with these options available to you can 33 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: make you can make any number of decisions. Right. You 34 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: could get one of those f f vs we talked 35 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: about and use a higher blend of ethanol. You might 36 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: be able to get a car that can run bio 37 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: diesel with a decent be blend. Or you might get 38 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: an electric vehicle. You know, there are a lot of 39 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: different options open to you. But if we're talking about 40 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: rolling this out to a wide yeah, but that countrywider 41 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: or globally. Um. You know, the reason that gasoline caught 42 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: on was that it was the cheapest and most efficient 43 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: fuel available at the time, and that hasn't changed enough. 44 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: And it's had more than a century to become a 45 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: a an institutionalized infrastructure, something that is so established and 46 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: so central to the way we do everything from transportation 47 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: to UH to other kinds of commerce, that it's no 48 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: surprise that it will be very difficult to displace gasoline. 49 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: It's just we We've invested countless billions of dollars around 50 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: the globe, not just here in the United States, in 51 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: this infrastructure, and it's it's got a lot of momentum 52 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: behind it. So how do how do we replace it? 53 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: And why would we even want to? So I think 54 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: first we should probably look at the WISE and then 55 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: look at how because and I put the big question 56 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 1: mark because it's it's a it's a tough question. So 57 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: we kind of divided up the WISE into three major categories, 58 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: and um, you know, you have to ask yourself this question, 59 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: why do you want to get off gasoline? Because the 60 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: answer to that will determine in part which alternative fuels 61 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: with right right, Because one alternative fuel might be great 62 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: for one part of this answer, but not so great 63 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: for another. So one of the ones I think leaps 64 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: to mind for a lot of people is the environmental 65 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: impact of petroleum based products and how using a combustible 66 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: engine and burning this stuff means we create a lot 67 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: of emissions that are pollutants that are toxic, that are 68 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: greenhouse gases that can affect client change. These are all 69 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: things that a lot of people keep in mind when 70 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: they're talking about we need an alternative fuel source. Yeah, 71 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: and a lot of these alternative fuel sources are really 72 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: good about that. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, we remember we 73 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: divided these up in the previous episode in large categories. 74 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: So for example, we had biofuels, and biofuels are things 75 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: like biodiesel, which is made out of animal fats or 76 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: vegetable oils or even recycled restaurant grease and then process 77 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: to become a diesel fuel. Most often it is blended 78 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: with actual petroleum based diesel uh, and it tends to 79 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: emit fewer pollutants. The higher the concentration of biodiesel, the 80 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: fewer pollutants it tends to emit, And the downside is 81 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: the less energy dense it tends to be. So, in 82 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: other words, honestly true, for I think everything that we 83 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: were talking about in the last episode. Everything everything tends 84 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: to be if it's if it's something that's mixed with 85 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: gasoline or diesel, then it tends to be have have 86 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: higher energy density. The more the petroleum based product is 87 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: mixed in, the less of it. That's they're the less 88 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: uh dense as far as energy is concerned. The fuel 89 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: is so you don't go as far on a full 90 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: tank if you're using pure biodiesel as you would if 91 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,119 Speaker 1: you were used a blend that only had a small 92 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 1: amount of biodiesel in it. Same thing is true of ethanol, 93 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: which is with gasoline. This is ethyl alcohol that you 94 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: would mix with gasoline. Increases the octane, lowers the energy density. Um. 95 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: So they both tend to emit fewer pollutants than pure 96 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: gasoline or pure diesel. Are a few fewer carbon dioxide, yeah, 97 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: I fewer carbon dioxide emissions. You do have to keep 98 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: in mind that some of these could emit completely different 99 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: chemicals that could be you know, toxic in their own way. 100 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: But biodiesel, for example, is non toxic. It's biodegradable. Uh. 101 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: The emissions tend to be much less severe than the 102 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: petroleum based ones. It still does emit some toxins and 103 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: some pollutants, just not nearly as much as the petroleum 104 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: based kind. Same thing as is more or less true 105 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: of ethanol. The higher concentration of ethanol you go anyway, 106 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: lower concentrations means that there's enough gasoline there for uh 107 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: for you to emit fewer but not zero emissions. And 108 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: then you've got the fossil fuels. So you've got the 109 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: biofuels with biodiesel and ethanol. You have the fossil fuels 110 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: that includes natural gas and propane also known as liquid 111 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: petroleum gas. Both of these are well natural gas we 112 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: find when we're also mining for crude oil, and propane 113 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: is something we get through the whole processing of natural 114 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: gas and crude oil, the refining of crude oil. So 115 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: both of these are in a way kind of like 116 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 1: byproducts of going after oil. And although you couldn't have 117 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: a mind that's just for natural gas as well, you can. Yeah, 118 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: so these could still produce pollutants. They do tend to 119 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: produce fewer pollutants than gasoline or d easel, but they 120 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: still do produce pollutants, and sometimes again the shift is 121 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 1: on different pollutants than it would be with a gasoline 122 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: based engine or a diesel based engine. So environmentally, uh, 123 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: it goes uh, it's it's still I think favorable, but 124 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: it's not a great solution. In other words, you're slowing 125 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: down the amount of emissions you are putting out into 126 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: the environment, but you're not eliminating and so you're still right, 127 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: um and and also you know, the the other trade 128 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: off is that you're getting less energy out of it. 129 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: Again again the same sort of thing where you you 130 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: cannot go as far, so you have to use more 131 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: fuel to go the same distance as you would with 132 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: a gasoline or diesel powered vehicle. Then you have hydrogen. 133 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: If you're using it in an internal combustion engine, you 134 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: are emitting nitrous or nitrogen oxide I should say not 135 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: nitrous oxide a little bit different, but nitrogen oxide. And 136 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: it's a uh that you know, that's a pollutant. So 137 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: that's a problem. But if you are using it as 138 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: a fuel cell, the only real emissions you have are 139 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: heat and water. Yeah, so water vapor is a greenhouse gas, 140 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: but it can be incorporated into the water cycle a 141 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: little more readily than say anything else. So anyway, carbon monoxide, 142 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: carbon monoxide not not, so it's much better than carbon monoxide. Um, 143 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: so you've got uh that as a benefit. But then 144 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: the downside that we've mentioned before is that in order 145 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: to get hydrogen, you have to pour energy into stuff 146 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: to break molecular bonds to free up the hydrogen in 147 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: the first place, because it doesn't really appear unbonded to 148 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: stuff in any great amount on Earth right right once 149 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: you once you're burning it, it's fairly efficient. But but 150 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: to get it to the state where you can, yeah, 151 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:41,839 Speaker 1: you have to use a lot of energy. So if 152 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: that energy is coming from fossil fuels, this is true 153 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: by the way of all of the different ones we're 154 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: talking about biofuels, uh, the natural gas or propane, we 155 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: have to use energy to get at this fuel and 156 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: process this fuel before we can use it in any 157 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: sort of vehicle. Right. That The thing is with with 158 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: gasoline is that all of that work was done by 159 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: the Earth of the course of billions and billions of years. 160 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: Although we do have to process oil to make it, guess, 161 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: but a lot less than we do for for for 162 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: bio fuels or ethanol. So it's it's one of those 163 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: things where uh, if that energy to do the processing 164 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: is also coming from fossil fuels, then you have to 165 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: worry about the environmental environmental impact of the processing part 166 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: of this as opposed to the fuel part, which is 167 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: the direct effect of electricity. Because electric electrically run vehicles. Um, 168 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: you know you're plugging them into a wall. Where is 169 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: the electricity coming to you from that wall? Right? Um, 170 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: if it's a coal processing plant, then you're not really 171 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: doing anything. Yeah, you're just uh, the pollution has just 172 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: been shift. But if it's if it's one of those things, 173 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: like you know, you're getting it from solar power or 174 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: wind power or whatever, then the electric car is a 175 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: great choice because you are not really putting out any 176 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: appreciable amount of pollutants or emissions from that vehicle. So uh, 177 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: if the if the energy source that's creating the electricity 178 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: is renewable and clean, then that's the best option for 179 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: an individual I think personally. Um. That being said, if 180 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: you can't guarantee that if you are getting your electricity 181 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: from a coal powered plant or something else that is 182 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: producing a lot of pollutants, then it could just be 183 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: that again, the problem has shifted to a different part 184 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,839 Speaker 1: of the equation, Right, and and some of this is 185 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: a little bit arguable. Um. For example, with ethanol, there's 186 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: been a bunch of conflicting studies. The two major ones 187 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,680 Speaker 1: that I've seen were one from a Cornell University that 188 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: was saying that that considering all of the energy cost 189 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: it takes to grow corn and convert it to ethanol, 190 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 1: it's a lot more energy production than you actually get 191 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: out at the end. Right. Um, Well, we'll really look 192 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: into energy return on investment towards the end of this podcast. 193 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: But that does mean that you're talking about land used 194 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: to and land use could mean that instead of using 195 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: that land to grow things that could be big carbon 196 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: sinks or grow food for people, uh, you are growing 197 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: stuff that's going to be used in fuel. And that 198 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 1: also means that you have to use things like fertilizer 199 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: requires a lot of nitrogen. Uh, And that could mean 200 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: that you are using a lot of energy in order 201 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: to create the fertilizer. And if the energy you're using 202 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: to grow the crops that are eventually going to be 203 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: turned to fuel, if all the energy is more than 204 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: what you are getting out of the whole fuel equation, 205 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: then you're not only causing environmental damage, it may just 206 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: not make sense from a big picture perspective, keeping in 207 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: mind that it all kind of depends on what crop 208 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: you're growing in the first place. In the United States, 209 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: it's it's chiefly corn that we use to create for ethanol, 210 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: and chiefly soybeans, I believe, for biodiesel, and then if 211 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: you are in Brazil, then sugarcane for ethanol. But you know, 212 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: we've also talked about the possibility of using switch grass 213 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: and other types of cellulose based stuff to create ethanol, 214 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: which would require a much lower investment and therefore, at 215 00:11:54,840 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: least ideal ideally, would mean a smaller environmental impact on 216 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: land use and other issues. You know, you can get 217 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: into lots of complicated things with land use, you know, 218 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: even things like erosion and flooding problems. And you know, 219 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: if you've altered the landscape to an appreciable amounts that 220 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:13,599 Speaker 1: you can grow the stuff that's going to fuel the 221 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: nation's vehicles, that can have unintended consequences. And that's why this, yeah, 222 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, in an ideal world, you would 223 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: be um, you know, share sharing crop land to rotate 224 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: crops out and and plant something that's really going to 225 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 1: help the environment around it, use that for biofuels, and 226 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: then let it get switched out with something else, right, Yeah, yeah, 227 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: crop rotation is one of those basic farming techniques that 228 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: can really save the soil a lot of wear and 229 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: tear and make it easier to grow healthy crops for 230 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: longer um. But unfortunately, yeah, there's there's not and and farming. 231 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 1: Farming is is a technology that actually I think would 232 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: be really interesting to do a whole episode on because 233 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: we've got a lot of really interesting new research coming out. Sure. Yeah, 234 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: so not only is it the just the technology behind farming, 235 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 1: but just the techniques that are being used, some of 236 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: which are centuries old. So anyway, that's kind of the 237 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: overview of the environmental concern is the idea that this 238 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,439 Speaker 1: is a very complex issue. If you're talking about the 239 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: biological stuff, you have to say, all right, well, what's 240 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 1: the environmental impact of growing the stuff that's going to 241 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: make this fuel. Then once the environmental impact of actually 242 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: burning that fuel with the fossil fuels, it's it's sort 243 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: of saying, well, this is assuming that we're going to 244 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: continue producing petroleum based fuels in the first place, Because 245 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: both of these are kind of byproducts of that. Um So, 246 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,839 Speaker 1: really it's just saying, how do we offset our gasoline 247 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: consumption so that we're using something that's less harmful to 248 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: the environment. And then with hydrogen, you're talking about how 249 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,079 Speaker 1: do you get the hydrogen in a way that doesn't 250 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: involve pouring a lot of more energy than it takes 251 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 1: to yeah, and burning fossil fuels just so that you 252 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: can get at some hydrogen. And then of course electricity 253 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: is how do you get the electricity buddy? And uh So, 254 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,439 Speaker 1: like I said, it's very complex. This is one of 255 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: those conversations that the more the longer you have the conversation, 256 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: the more you realize this is not a simple solution. 257 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: There's no easy switch we can flip. Now, let's talk 258 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: about the second of the three things we identified as 259 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 1: reasons you might want to switch to gasoline, and that 260 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 1: is economic reasons. So let's talk about economic from the 261 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: point of view of the average consumer's wallet. So, in 262 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: that sense, some of these fuels at right now are 263 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: less expensive than an equivalent amount of gasoline. And when 264 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: I say equivalent amount, I really mean equivalent and distance, 265 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: because because you can't really compare, it's like comparing apples 266 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: to hydrogen gas. It's um hard to do because gasoline 267 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: comes in liquid forms. Some of these fuels come in 268 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: gas forms. Some of them are in liquid forms, some 269 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: of them are in fuel cells, which make it, you know, complex, 270 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: some of them you plug into a wall. It's really 271 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: hard to to easily compare them, right, But in general, 272 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: things like electric vehicles are still still more expensive, at 273 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: least in the Nine States, still more expensive than UH 274 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: than gas powered cars. Like I think it kind of 275 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: goes like gas powered hybrid and an electric UM and 276 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: UH and and supposedly at this point, the the amount 277 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: from even a hybrid car, the amount of money that 278 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: you'll save by using electricity versus gasoline in the end 279 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: will pay off over the lifetime of vehicle, assuming that 280 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: you're keeping that vehicle for a good amount of time. 281 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: It's it. I've seen different studies on this where there's 282 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: been some debate about how long you would have to 283 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: maintain and keep that vehicle. And of course maintenance costs 284 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: fold into that too, And the maintenance cost for a 285 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: hybrid vehicle or an electric vehicle maybe higher than it 286 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: would be for a traditional gasoline or diesel powered vehicle. 287 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: So then you know, you have to take just like 288 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: with the environmental issue, it gets more complex than just 289 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: saying how expensive is this for me on a day 290 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: to day basis. You have to look at the lifetime 291 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: of the vehicle, and especially since um, since things like 292 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: hybrid vehicles are a little bit more costly to maintain, 293 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: just because you can't take it in to any old 294 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 1: shop anywhere, as a lot of the parts are specialist 295 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: parts that take a little bit more time and money 296 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: to get ahold of right, and and also the idea 297 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: that these are kind of still seen as specialty cars. 298 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: They're they're becoming more popular. I mean it's especially in 299 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: the United States. Hybrid vehicles and electric vehicles are both 300 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: becoming more popular. You're in Atlanta there kind of everywhere. Yeah, 301 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: I see smart cars everywhere, but uh I see you know, 302 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: like the Prius is just about everywhere too. So it's 303 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: you know, the popularity is rising. But the as as 304 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: popularity rises, the nice thing about that is demand goes up. 305 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: Companies find more efficient means of manufacturing these vehicles, which 306 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: then allows the cost to come down. But it's a 307 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: process that takes time, so it's not like, you know, 308 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: year one vehicles are going to be sixty dollars and 309 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: you're too, they're going to be fifteen thousand, and your 310 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: three they're gonna be twelve thousand. That's not the way 311 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: it works, all right. And also, as as this cost 312 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: is dry ropping, part of that is because the infrastructure 313 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: that allows them to be popular is developing, and so 314 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: you're really um, you're you know, for the consumer, it 315 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: might become less expensive, but the cost of building up 316 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: that infrastructure is enormous, right, And and that's a huge 317 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: issue with hydrogen based UH cars, whether it's fuel cells 318 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: or hydrogen used as a fuel and an internal combustion engine. 319 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: There's no real existing infrastructure to get that hydrogen everywhere, 320 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: So it would mean building that out and creating hydrogen 321 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 1: fuel stations. And there are a few, I know, there 322 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: are some. California's got a few, but they are few 323 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 1: and far between, and if you were to drive anywhere 324 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: outside of that region, you would quickly realize that you 325 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 1: were stranded and you had to call mom. So the 326 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: assuming mom has giant tanks of hydrogen line around, and 327 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: Mom always has a giant mom Mom's purse holds a 328 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: myriad of amazing things in it Mary Poppins bags essentially 329 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 1: a bag of holding. It's from a D and D 330 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 1: buddies out there rill a D twenty to save against 331 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: being nerdy. You lost. Um. So, yeah, infrastructure is really expensive. 332 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: It can be, which then can mean that it would 333 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: be more expensive to the end consumer. Right that cost 334 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: has to be for taxpayers or Yeah, because some of 335 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: these are programs that the governments is encouraging through tax incentives. 336 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,199 Speaker 1: But again that tends to mean that those incentives are 337 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: are are paid off from the by the tax payer. 338 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: So uh, and in different countries do this in different ways. 339 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: You know, there's some that just they that's they allocate 340 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: a certain percentage of the tax income towards things like, uh, 341 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: encouraging these sort of industries so that they grow faster 342 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: or that they take hold. But that's a big issue. 343 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,719 Speaker 1: Economic is complicated, just like environmental. Now that brings us 344 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: to the third of our reasons why we might want 345 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 1: to switch from guest Lean, and that is national security. 346 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: Now Here in the United States, and we said this 347 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: in the last podcast, in the United States, we import 348 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: a lot of our oil from other nations, and some 349 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: of those nations are nations that it would mean that 350 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: the money we are spending to get to that oil 351 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: maybe going to fuel instability and regions of the world. 352 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: It could mean that we are inadvertently giving more power 353 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: to parties that are going to cause lots of trouble 354 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: in different parts of the world, either directly to the 355 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: United States or to our allies, or just create instability 356 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: in general, which is not good for anybody really and uh, 357 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: and so there really is it really isn't the interests 358 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 1: of the United States and really any country to find 359 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: a way of being as self sufficient as possible so 360 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: that you can create as much of your energy domestically. 361 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: And when I say create energy, obviously I don't think 362 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: you can create or destroy fuel. Yeah, yeah, domestically as 363 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 1: opposed to to internation. Really, so here here in the here, 364 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: in the United States, Um, we do produce each of 365 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: the six each each of the six fuels that we're 366 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: talking about here. Um, but we also produce gasoline. So yeah, 367 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: so if you look at the fuels that we produce, 368 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: the alternatives we mentioned, most of them, we produce the 369 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: vast majority of what we use here domestically in the 370 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: United States. Uh. Even so we do import some stuff, Uh, 371 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: specifically within natural gas and propane. We import a little 372 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 1: bit of that, although we produce quite a bit, we 373 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: also export some. So it's kind of interesting that we 374 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: export some and then import others. Um uh. And that's 375 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of that has to do with 376 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: infrastructure and uh and transportation as well as just logistics 377 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: and you know, when where we can get the most 378 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 1: money out of the resources that we have available. So uh. 379 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: One of the things that a lot of people have 380 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: pointed at is alternative fuels would allow us to remove 381 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,719 Speaker 1: our dependency on four in oil. That's usually how it's worded, 382 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: and it's really it's really decreased, I think, because we 383 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: are so far off from But yeah, that's that that 384 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: we're going to cover in our next section because because 385 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,439 Speaker 1: that's the that's that's where we're gonna really look at 386 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: some of the huge challenges besides the ones we've already mentioned. 387 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: If you think it's been challenging already, we have not 388 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 1: even scratched the surface. Uh. So Yeah, it's it's this 389 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 1: idea that we can perhaps make the United States a 390 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: safer place and hopefully the entire world a safer place 391 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: by producing more of that energy or producing more that 392 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,400 Speaker 1: fuel rather domestically, and the same is true, like I said, 393 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: for nations all around the world. Since Lauren and I 394 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: are both from the United States, we work in the 395 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: United States, we live in the United States. That's what 396 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: our perspective is based on. Uh, we are aware that 397 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: there are people all over the world who's who thought, 398 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: So that that kind of covers the y and uh, 399 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 1: well we'll tackle the how, but before we can, let's 400 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: take a quick break. So, yeah, we've we covered the 401 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: why we might want to. So, Jonathan, I was wondering 402 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: how much gasoline exactly do we use? Well here in 403 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: the United States, Lauren, according to the the US government, specifically, 404 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: according to the U S Energy Information Administration, in two 405 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: thousand twelve, which if my calendar serves me correctly, is 406 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 1: just last year, on an average day, the US went 407 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: through three hundred and forty seven million gallons of gasoline 408 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: per day per day. Yeah, if you want to talk 409 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: about the whole year, that's about a hundred and twenty 410 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: six billion with a B gallons. Uh, you know, that's 411 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: just that's just me rounding it off to Now I 412 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: should say that this isn't all bad news because Originally, Uh, 413 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: people were projecting us to be up to about a 414 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,399 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty billion gallons of gas per year. We were, 415 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: we were therepenty Yeah, we we cut out nearly twenty 416 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 1: five billion gallons of gas. Um. It turns out that 417 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: our our gas consumption maybe slightly decreasing due to people 418 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: just being a little more conservative with their driving habits. Right. Yeah, 419 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: the the economy in general, and I mean it's it's 420 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: easy to say the economy in general about anything, but um, 421 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 1: but yeah, people aren't are cutting back on the amount 422 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: of gas that they're using, right, so h so, you know, 423 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: it's not all because people are concerned about saving the earth. 424 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: Some of them are concerned about saving their their cash. Yeah. 425 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: Uh not that that's not that I'm trying to cast dispersions. 426 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: That's important to it's important to but yeah. So, so 427 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: around a hundred twenty six billion gallons of gas in 428 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: the United States every year. So in order to get 429 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: off gasoline, so let's say that our goal is to 430 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: eliminate using gasoline as our primary source for fuel, to 431 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: make gasoline the alternative as opposed to one of these others. Uh, 432 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 1: then what kind of numbers are we looking at and 433 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: I've got a few, but um, it's it's not looking 434 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: great right right. But you know, and keep keep in 435 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: mind that a lot of this is because, as we 436 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: have said earlier, um, most of these other most of 437 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,439 Speaker 1: these alternatives won't get you as far as gasoline will, right. 438 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: So in other words, even the fuel economy is lesser, 439 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 1: you would have to use more of the fuel to 440 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 1: get the same amount of distance as you would with 441 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: if you had the same kind of vehicle, but it 442 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: was a gasolene powered vehicle. So, um, hundred and twenty 443 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: six billion gallons of gas every year in the United States. 444 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: Let's look at ethanol. So in two thousand eleven, the 445 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: United States produced about thirteen point nine billion gallons of ethanol, 446 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: so we'd need a hundred and ten extra billion well, 447 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: and and also keep in mind that ethanol right now 448 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 1: is being used as a blend, right, So it's stretching 449 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: our gasoline a little, because we are blending ethanol with 450 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,199 Speaker 1: gasoline to increase octane. But fair, But from US vehicles, 451 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: the highest that you go generally is e eighty five, 452 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: which is only ethanol. Ethanol good, but gasoline, Yeah, if 453 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 1: you want to go with pure ethanol. You would have 454 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: to have a seriously retooled engine that could withstand that 455 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: solvent kind of action. We could, Yeah, I guess we could. 456 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,479 Speaker 1: You know, ethanol was in fact one of the fuels 457 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: that Henry Ford was looking at back when he was 458 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: first designing the automobile, was expecting all vehicles, all of 459 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,360 Speaker 1: his vehicles to be using core and ethanol. Yeah. Yeah, 460 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: so you know this was This is not like it's 461 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 1: a new idea by any stretch of the imagination. But 462 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: the point is is that we had to produce a 463 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 1: lot more of it if we really wanted ethanol to 464 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: be a replacement for gasoline. And let's I just want 465 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: to be fair. I'm not suggesting that any of these 466 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: industries are saying that they are positioning themselves to replace 467 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: gasoline entirely. That's not the message there they are trying 468 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: to make. I'm just pointing out that if we did 469 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: want to have everyone take this and not just be 470 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: you know, an individual choice thing, but that we're trying 471 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: to guide people into these kind of vehicles in the future, 472 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: that we face some pretty serious production problems. Now. One 473 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: of the nice things about ethanol is that the ethanol 474 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: we're producing we're producing for fuel, and we're producing it 475 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 1: for fuel four vehicles for the most part, So that 476 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: means that it's not like we'd have to repurpose or 477 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: redirect the stuff we are producing for one thing into 478 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: something else, which is not the case when we get 479 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: to the fossil fuels. But but for ethanol, again, big 480 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: deficit there. And then with biodiesel, biodiesel tends to be 481 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: measured in tons as opposed to gallons. So and I'm 482 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: going to stick with gasoline. I know, technically I should 483 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: compare biodiesel against diesel, but we're you know, my my, 484 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: my hypothesis was how could we get off of you 485 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: know what? So biodiesel production inn was about six million tons, 486 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: and if you compare that to tons of gasoline, and 487 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: this is not a direct comparison, but answer around four 488 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 1: fifty million tons. So they're not not even not even 489 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: getting into the billions. Yes, that's a lot of McDonald's 490 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: that you'd be reading to get to get the grease 491 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: that you would need to keep your your cars running. 492 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: This this is not to say that the raw materials 493 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 1: aren't there. They may very well be, but we're only 494 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 1: processing about six million tons per year, and uh, and 495 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: and again this is this is a bio diesel is 496 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: something that very early on UM. In fact, Rudolph Diesel, 497 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 1: who diesel is named for, UM, was in testing peanut 498 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: oil driven engines. Interesting, now I want peanuts, boiled peanuts. 499 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: Oh wow, you are Southern. I told you born and 500 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: bread down here. So thank you? So so yeah. Biodiesel. Again, 501 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: another problem is that we'd have to produce a lot 502 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: more of it for it to actually replace gasoline. Not 503 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 1: that the bio diesel industry is saying that that's what 504 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 1: they're trying to do, but if we wanted to that, 505 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: it would require a lot more work, lot a lot. Now, 506 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: propane in nineteen nine, which was the year where I 507 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: could find some some reliable, reliable statistics. There are lots 508 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: of statistics that are out there, but when I start 509 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: tracing back the main source, it eventually gets so cloudy 510 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: that I'm thinking this might be an extrapolation. So I 511 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 1: try to find the most reliable source I can. Uh. 512 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: In this case, the source said nineteen point six billion 513 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: gallons were produced in nine. Again, it's more than ethanol, 514 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 1: and it's more than biodesel. Actually, view it's more than 515 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: those combined, almost almost running combined. But it's right around 516 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: the same amount as those combined. But you know, it's 517 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: propane again, not as energy efficient as gasoline, so and 518 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: a lot of it is still being used for other 519 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: purposes such as home heating. Right, So if we wanted 520 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 1: to make propane an alternative fuel that was much more 521 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: widely adopted, we'd have to produce a lot more propane. Yeah, 522 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: we we would either have to m to find a 523 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: another fuel source for those other things that it's used for, 524 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: or yea or like a bunch more than that, more 525 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: than quadruple down. I mean, you're talking about producing an 526 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: enormous amount of propane natural gas. This is where we 527 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: kind of everything sort of breaks down because we're talk 528 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: about natural gas. You're talking about volume, right, You're not 529 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: talking about a liquid measurement like a gallon or a 530 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: leak in liquid natural gas. But yeah, it's under pressure. 531 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: We usually talk about in cubic feet. Yeah, so if 532 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: you're talking about twenty five million cubic feet, it's kind 533 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: of hard to compare that against gasoline. But again, natural gas, 534 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: we're using a lot of that already for other purposes. 535 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: So if we were to use natural gas as a 536 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: primary fuel source for our vehicles. Propane. Yeah, we would 537 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: have to keep that into keep that in mind, the 538 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: fact that we already need some natural gas for we're 539 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: already using it. Yea, yeah, if we if we ended 540 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: up repurposing it, then we'd have to find some other 541 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: means of heat our homes or providing a natural gas 542 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: for cooking, or all those other applications we talked about 543 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: in the previous episode. Hydrogen. There's been no appreciable amount 544 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: of hydrogen that we've produced other than you know, we 545 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: we've used it in again oil refining. It's funny how 546 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: all these alternative fuels, many of them are used or 547 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: are by products of the oil refinery process. Uh. So, uh, 548 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: it's hydrogen. We would just have to create a whole 549 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: new industry that would be all about breaking down molecular 550 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: bonds so we could get at hydrogen to use it 551 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: as a fuel source. Um. It's just uh, it would 552 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: be almost like starting from scratch. And I think that 553 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: once we figured that out, um, it would change the 554 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: face of energy as we know it, because then we 555 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: would be using fusion reactors for our our general power. 556 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of bigger things would 557 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: happen before commercial hydrogen vehicle if we if we got 558 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: to the point where we could use fusion reactors, then 559 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: this is a moots Just go with the sixth one, 560 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: which is electricity, because we'd be generating so much electricity 561 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: with our fusion generators that that would solve that issue. 562 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: We would just you know, and and fusion generators create 563 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: clean energy, especially or at least cleaner than than almost 564 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: any other method that doesn't involve wind or solar. In fact, 565 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: you could argued, based upon the rare earth materials that 566 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: are needed for these that that could be cleaner. But uh, 567 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: we haven't made a fusion reactor that puts out more 568 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: energy than it requires to start, So until that happens, 569 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: it's kind of a moot point. But anyway, electricities are 570 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: sixth one. Uh An, Electricity is is a different type 571 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: of thing, right, It's not like we can't produce more electricity, 572 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: although depending upon where you are, like in the United States, 573 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,959 Speaker 1: the power grid might not be robust to handle the 574 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: extra energy output. The load on the power grid might 575 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,479 Speaker 1: be so much as to overwhelm it. So there are 576 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: a lot of countries out there that are investing heavily 577 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: and creating things like smart grids which are much more 578 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: adept at uh at moving dynamically so that balancing balancing 579 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: different areas of usage exactly so that way not no 580 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: one region gets overloaded and you don't have to worry 581 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: about like rolling blackouts or something which lots of different 582 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: parts of the world have experienced in cleaning the United States. 583 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: We've seen rolling blackouts in the US before too, so 584 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: um uh it would mean that we would have to 585 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: have a pretty significant investment in that infrastructure, something that 586 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people argue we need anyway, whether we're 587 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: using electric vehicles or not, we do need to uh 588 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: invest in that infrastructure. I I agree with that. I 589 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: think that that's important. And uh I know that there 590 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 1: are people who work in power grid companies who probably 591 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: lead very stressful lives because the company is always working 592 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: at close to full capacity and if anything pops up, 593 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: they have to be very, very deft in order to 594 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: handle it. I can't imagine that life personally. I'm much 595 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: happier being a podcaster. Yeah, it's it's tough enough when 596 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: I get an email saying, hey, can you pick up 597 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: lunch today? And I have my own little meltdown that's 598 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: tiny in comparison. I realize this very very few emergencies, 599 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: and it turns out, um so, yeah, these are this 600 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,120 Speaker 1: is all coming under the umbrella of scalability. Scaling one 601 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: of these things to a point where you can you 602 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: can effectively use it, yeah, across a country or across 603 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: the world, and you know, and that's that's why a 604 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: lot of these technologies are being used by governments or 605 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: for for industry, yeah, or in you know, a municipality 606 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: like a like a city government, not necessarily a nation's government. 607 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: But we've talked about how there are a lot of 608 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: cities out there, Atlanta as one of them that has 609 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: a fleet of buses that use natural gases it's primary 610 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: fuel source. So there are plenty of examples. There are 611 00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: a lot of there's a lot of farm equipment out 612 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: there that runs on either propane or natural gas. Uh 613 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of stuff out there that can 614 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: use this and take advantage of it. But when you're 615 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: talking about consumer vehicles, it's a huge challenge to roll 616 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: any of these out on any large, large scale. Um So, 617 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: I'm not surprised that we're seeing people adopt this in 618 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: individual cases. I mean that's as they can is as 619 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: you can afford to, right as they can afford to, 620 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: and as their region allows them to. Because right here 621 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: in Georgia, it would be very difficult to get along 622 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: on an electric car if you wanted to take it 623 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 1: outside of you know, your your immediate neighborhood or your 624 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: immediate city. M But in California it's a little bit 625 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: more possible. Same thing with hydrogen vehicles. There are hydrogen 626 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: refueling stations in certain parts of the United States, but 627 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: not so many in Georgia, so you would not be 628 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: able to go very far for very long with a 629 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: hydrogen based vehicle here and uh and and part of 630 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: the reason why we are not rolling into all of 631 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: these alternatives is that is that we're really not getting 632 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,319 Speaker 1: the kind of energy return on investment that we're king for. 633 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 1: Right So this is the idea, and we've kind of 634 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,279 Speaker 1: touched on it already, so we won't spend too much time. 635 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: But this is the idea of the energy you're getting 636 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: out in the form of fuel, the potential energy that 637 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: that fuel can give you, if that's less than what 638 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 1: you're pouring into create the energy or the fuel in 639 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 1: the first place, then you really have an energy sink. 640 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: You're losing energy overall in the deal. So a lot 641 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: of these fuel sources require some processing, and a lot 642 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,759 Speaker 1: of that processing comes from energy that we ultimately are 643 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: getting by burning fossil fuels right right, a lot of 644 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: ethanol refineries right now are trying to cut costs by 645 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: using coal as their energy source. So there we have it, right, 646 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: You're just you've just shifted the fossil fuel from the 647 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,200 Speaker 1: fuel itself into the processing of that fuel. So if 648 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,400 Speaker 1: that's the case, then you could still be polluting. You're 649 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: still showing a dependence upon fossil fuels. A lot of 650 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 1: the problems that we talked about about why you would 651 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,239 Speaker 1: want to switch off a gasoline are still there. They're 652 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 1: just there in a different part of the process us. 653 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 1: And uh, if if it turns out that you could have, 654 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,720 Speaker 1: like if you're using fossil fuels to process a fuel 655 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: a different type of fuel, an alternative fuel, and that 656 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: alternative fuel does not have enough energy into in potential 657 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: energy in that fuel form to measure out the amount 658 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: that you poured into it, you might as well have 659 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,320 Speaker 1: just used the fossil fuel in the first place. Yeah, 660 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: why why even bother creating an alternative fuel if you 661 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: still have to burn using that much fossil fuel. Yeah, exactly, 662 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: so you're not gaining anything, right, Ideally, you want your 663 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 1: return to be greater, so that and you wanted to 664 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: be a lot greater, Like if it can be a 665 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,879 Speaker 1: hundred times greater than the amount of energy it takes 666 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: to make that fuel, Uh, to have that potential energy 667 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 1: within that fuel, then that's a great deal. That's what 668 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: you want. A lot of the alternative fuels, it's more 669 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: like two to three times, which is not great. And uh, 670 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,919 Speaker 1: it's still better than a deficit, but it's it's it's 671 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: not so great. And all of that ties back into 672 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,320 Speaker 1: some of the other yes that we were talking about earlier, 673 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: like financial purposes. You know, it's going to cost more 674 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,280 Speaker 1: to create this than than sticking with gasoline, and it's 675 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: it's a hard sell, you know. It's you know, not 676 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,359 Speaker 1: that we want to be so cynical as to say 677 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,919 Speaker 1: money makes the world go around. Some of you might say, 678 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: kind of death, Well, it certainly it certainly matters. Right. 679 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: If it weren't for the fact that it matters, then 680 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: maybe we could just very altruistically say oh, well, you 681 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,279 Speaker 1: know this is so, but the problem is that you're 682 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,320 Speaker 1: talking about paying a lot more. Again, You've you know, 683 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: got gasoline that's had a century to establish itself, so 684 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: to switch out to something else is going to require 685 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: an enormous investment. Yeah, and and and even you know, 686 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: we keep talking about how complicated these matters are, and 687 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: they are so complicated that a lot of the research 688 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,319 Speaker 1: being done as contradictory, right, right, And again part of 689 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 1: that also goes back to checking to see who it 690 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: was that funded the research. Absolutely, because there's so many 691 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: lobby systems which also relates to money in that are 692 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: active players in various national governments. That. Yeah, while I 693 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: would not go so far as to say there's a 694 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: conspiracy out there that is is designed to to suppress innovation, 695 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: if we're going to say that, we should really bring 696 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: Ben and Matton here, right, but I will go so 697 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 1: far as to say that if if there is an 698 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: industry that has certain interests and they want to protect it, 699 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 1: that could include everything from funding research that gives them 700 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 1: a positive light. So that definitely does happen. I'm not 701 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: a conspiracy theorist, but I do know, Yeah, yeah. And 702 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: here here in the States, there's also a lot of 703 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 1: big agriculture issues where you know, people people will talk 704 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: about how how perhaps you know, corn and soybean production 705 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: are being funded at the expense of other things, and 706 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: that this is part of what's driving biodiesel or ethanol, 707 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: or that small farmers are suffering because more and more 708 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,800 Speaker 1: land and and and resources are going towards producing fuel 709 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,719 Speaker 1: than it would be for food. And there are a 710 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: lot of political issues here and social issues beyond just 711 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: the fuel problem, which again makes us more complex. Um, yeah, 712 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: I mean this is kind of uh, you know, the 713 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,799 Speaker 1: big story here is that when you start opening up 714 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 1: this can of worms, you realize there's more worms than 715 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: dirt here that you have to really take into account. 716 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,280 Speaker 1: And but this does not mean that one we should 717 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: give up the quest to try and find better fuels 718 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:33,520 Speaker 1: that are less environmentally harmful, or that are less expensive, 719 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: or that that give us a boost in national security. 720 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 1: We absolutely should continue to do those things. We should 721 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,160 Speaker 1: not expect some sort of miracle fuel right around the corner, 722 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: because that's probably not gonna happen. But the more we 723 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,839 Speaker 1: can wean ourselves off of gasoline and I don't think 724 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,240 Speaker 1: we're going to get to a point where we completely 725 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 1: eliminate that need any time in the near future. The better. 726 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 1: But we can also do things ourselves, right that that 727 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: helped this out and some of it. If we start 728 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: implementing these behaviors now, it will make the transition easier 729 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 1: when it does happen. Oh right, yeah, of course. I 730 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 1: mean with with any of these environmental issues that you're 731 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,600 Speaker 1: looking at, UM, the way that you behave on a 732 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: on a personal level and on a community level is 733 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: really important. And part of that is, um you know, 734 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 1: taking the bus or taking the train if you can, 735 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,360 Speaker 1: and uh or or or just just driving less or 736 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 1: driving more responsibly, you know, not hitting the gas to 737 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,800 Speaker 1: run around someone who's going four miles an hour slower 738 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,320 Speaker 1: than than you really want them to write and car pooling, 739 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: all these ideas of conserving fuel. That's a good habit 740 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: to get into, because, like we've said multiple times, these 741 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:41,960 Speaker 1: alternative fuels, most of them don't have the same sort 742 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 1: of energy density that gas lane does. So if we 743 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: do get to a point, or if you choose to 744 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: drive a vehicle that uses one of these other alternative fuels, 745 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 1: you'll have to make sure that you're driving habits reflect that, 746 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: because otherwise you're gonna be stopping for fuel way more 747 00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,799 Speaker 1: frequently because paying way more for it. Yeah, because you're 748 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,720 Speaker 1: not you're not driving as efficiently as as you could. 749 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 1: So a lot of this can you know, this transition 750 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: can be made more um gentle on us the consumer 751 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 1: if we start to adopt some of these behaviors and 752 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: plus will just be environmentally and also the maintenance of 753 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: your vehicle. I mean, there are a lot of reasons 754 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,480 Speaker 1: to do it, economic and environmental, a lot of good 755 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: reasons to just be a responsible driver in in that respect. 756 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: Not to mention the fact that just be a responsible 757 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,439 Speaker 1: driver people. If you're listening to this podcast where you're driving, 758 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,280 Speaker 1: that's fine. If you're reading the transcript while you're driving, 759 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,840 Speaker 1: please don't do that. That's that's not good. Unless you 760 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: have one of those fancy, fancy automatic automobiles. Oh yeah, 761 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 1: if you if you're in one of those Google driverless 762 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,879 Speaker 1: car things, then first of all us, yes, swing by, 763 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,319 Speaker 1: I want to ride, um, but you know that that 764 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,200 Speaker 1: I think that's just the Google people right now. So 765 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,920 Speaker 1: uh hi. Anyway, So that's the that's kind of the 766 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 1: wrap up on alternative fuels, and why it's so complex, 767 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: and that it's not just so some easy solution of saying, hey, 768 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,800 Speaker 1: let's just switch this gas pump from gas to hydrogen 769 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: and everything's cool. Yeah, it's unfortunately far more complicated than that. 770 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,840 Speaker 1: And it's not to say that these challenges are insurmountable. 771 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 1: I don't believe that, because human beings are phenomenal when 772 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: it comes to finding solutions to difficult problems. But it 773 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 1: is important that we we acknowledge that it is a 774 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,360 Speaker 1: difficult problem and then we take it from there. I 775 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 1: have complete faith that the human race is going to 776 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: come up with some pretty awesome stuff in the next 777 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:43,359 Speaker 1: you know, twenty years, even to completely revolutionized. Definitely. Oh yes, 778 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,319 Speaker 1: when all the future comes isn't twenty or forty years. 779 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,880 Speaker 1: So I just gotta live to see it. So in 780 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,640 Speaker 1: the meantime, while I'm waiting, if you guys would like 781 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 1: to send in suggestions for future episodes of tech Stuff, 782 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,080 Speaker 1: we would love that. We love reading your email, we 783 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: love getting the tweets and the Facebook my to just 784 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,279 Speaker 1: please keep them coming. Let's know what you're interested in, 785 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: what what what you think would be an exciting podcast 786 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,320 Speaker 1: and someday, someday we'll bring back that that alarm Clackson 787 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 1: and do some reader mail. Yeah yeah, who knows, Yeah 788 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:17,360 Speaker 1: that might that might happen. I Lauren, Lauren has not 789 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,399 Speaker 1: lived through the hate mail that I got back when 790 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 1: I used to do the listener mail segment, but think 791 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 1: it could be quiet Clackson. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly what 792 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,400 Speaker 1: a Clackson is. Alright, So guys, let us know. You 793 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,600 Speaker 1: can say as an email, are just as tech stuff 794 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,480 Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com, or drop us a line on 795 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 1: Facebook or Twitter, or handle it both those locations. Is 796 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,839 Speaker 1: tech stuff each s W and Lauren and I will 797 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:49,480 Speaker 1: talk to you again really soon for more on this 798 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,120 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics because it has to works 799 00:43:52,160 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 1: dot Com