Speaker 1: In which Jillian jack Linson. So you always have the
Speaker 1: coolest clothes, but what I know you do? You're actually
Speaker 1: are we talking about my clothes? Well, because you're Ryan
Speaker 1: Adams shirt. I were this to be funny because ahead
Speaker 1: the first time that we interacted on social media, I
Speaker 1: had well, this was like the second interaction. I had
Speaker 1: sent you a picture. I was playing a show at
Speaker 1: a venue that's right, Louis and St. Louis, and I sent, um,
Speaker 1: you were playing with Bryan Adams. I was playing with
Speaker 1: Ryan Adams that night, but you were on you were
Speaker 1: going to be playing somewhere. So I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god to see your name. And and then you
Speaker 1: wrote back and you're like, oh, what are you doing there?
Speaker 1: And I said, I'm opening for Ryan Adams and and
Speaker 1: you said, oh, like Summer of sixty nine. And I
Speaker 1: thought you were being serious, and so I was. Of course,
Speaker 1: I have the worst sense of humor, and so I
Speaker 1: wrote back. I was like, oh, no, no no, that's that's
Speaker 1: Brian Adams. This is Ryan Adams. And you're like, I
Speaker 1: know that, were like the tim an idiot, had no
Speaker 1: respect for me. The fact that you thought that I
Speaker 1: was being serious meant you had no respect for anything
Speaker 1: about me musically, I do, I really do. I think
Speaker 1: you do. Because we had a chance to get to
Speaker 1: know each other. I think I actually thought that a
Speaker 1: lot of people and no disrespect to Ryan, but I
Speaker 1: thought he might be like super under the radar and
Speaker 1: like a lot of people don't know him. And I
Speaker 1: didn't know that you were. Um, yeah, I guess I
Speaker 1: didn't know that you knew a ton outside the country realm.
Speaker 1: I was just crazy because I'm want to compare this
Speaker 1: to who from Daniel Bradbrey she came in. I only
Speaker 1: know her from not the voice, right, I don't know
Speaker 1: her from the voice Daniel Bradberry and most people know
Speaker 1: her from the voice. Now, when you say you only
Speaker 1: know me from country, I worked. I worked every other
Speaker 1: format for way longer than I have any country. That's great.
Speaker 1: But I love that because that means that I'm really
Speaker 1: resonating where I am now. Because I did pop, alternative,
Speaker 1: I did hip hop, sports. Well, that yeah, that's it
Speaker 1: gives you your edge. That's why you're cool here. Oh
Speaker 1: I'm so cool. You're a cool guy in town. My
Speaker 1: point was, I'm definitely not the cool guy. My point
Speaker 1: was you're in a Ryan adom, sir, is that legit
Speaker 1: like old school? Or no, this is new? This is
Speaker 1: like from his last tour. Yeah. Um, I love his designs.
Speaker 1: He has really great designs. I'll get some, um retro
Speaker 1: what do they call the T shirts? Vintage? Thank you?
Speaker 1: I am. I don't even know the word. So when
Speaker 1: I do awards shows, I have a stylist, it'll like
Speaker 1: dress me because I'm color blind. Everything dark looks the
Speaker 1: same to me. Dark. Well, I have to memorize colors,
Speaker 1: so I know these are a shade of red pants
Speaker 1: that I have on. And so I've always had this problem.
Speaker 1: So I have a stylist that comes and she'll pick
Speaker 1: out clothes and say, no, that's a green, that's a black.
Speaker 1: But I'll say, hey, I like the vintage T shirts.
Speaker 1: And what she does is she finds real vintage T shirts.
Speaker 1: But they're so expensive. Yeah they are. Yeah, they're like
Speaker 1: double a normal T shirt price, maybe three or four
Speaker 1: times too. And she won't tell me because what stylists do.
Speaker 1: I've only learned this recently. Yeah is that. And I
Speaker 1: have a great stylist and she's gonna have her own podcast.
Speaker 1: But she'll she'll come and she'll say, here the clothes
Speaker 1: you want, and I'll get a bill back like two
Speaker 1: months later. And I was like, holy crap, that three
Speaker 1: students shirt was like sixty eight dollars. That's my point
Speaker 1: with that. But that's a new shirt. This is a
Speaker 1: new one. But I have spent like I think the
Speaker 1: most day spent was eighty bucks on a Judge shirt
Speaker 1: from I have a nineteen I think eight nine toward
Speaker 1: Judge T shirt. She's so good, their hair, everything that
Speaker 1: she picked up because she knew I was a fan
Speaker 1: of the Judge. I mean I was, yeah, I can't,
Speaker 1: I can't. I a mumping them right now. Have you
Speaker 1: hung out with Winona? I haven't. That would be pretty cool,
Speaker 1: have you. Oh? I thought you had a great story.
Speaker 1: I don't. But I was like obsessed with her as
Speaker 1: a kid and her mom, both of them. I read
Speaker 1: her book and everything. But yeah, they were some of
Speaker 1: the like most eccentric characters. I feel like my mom
Speaker 1: used to sing the Judge all the time. Which song?
Speaker 1: I mean, which one tell me about? Yes, that's it
Speaker 1: to me, that's my mom's singing. It was always the Judge.
Speaker 1: Like when I think back about that, Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: obviously I have an affinity for the judge because when
Speaker 1: you think about being a kid, and I was born
Speaker 1: in the eighties and they were a big deal kind
Speaker 1: of to my kid years. Yeah, but I haven't. I
Speaker 1: haven't been a shirt too that paid way too much
Speaker 1: more that I haven't worried. Do you ever worried about
Speaker 1: wearing them? Because there, if it's so cool, it might
Speaker 1: be dead, like the shirt you killed the shirt because
Speaker 1: you can't wear it anywhere else. No. I have that
Speaker 1: problem with crazy suits. Oh, well with suits because yeah,
Speaker 1: because if I have a suit for the CMA's last
Speaker 1: year and it was not cheap, yeah, if it's that outrageous, though,
Speaker 1: nobody will forget it. You know, if it's like some
Speaker 1: crazy color sparkles on it, but I can't wear it again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you gotta wear it's like a family reunion where nobody else.
Speaker 1: But everything's on Instagram now, So that's the problem, you
Speaker 1: know these days. I don't know if guys have this problem,
Speaker 1: but I feel like, as a girl and as an artist,
Speaker 1: if I wear something and I put it on Instagram,
Speaker 1: then I'm like dead, Yes, then it's dead. Then it's
Speaker 1: really dead. So I always have to try to somehow
Speaker 1: make it different. But you your style makes you intimidating.
Speaker 1: Why because it's really cool. But I told you the
Speaker 1: first time I met you, I thought you were way cool.
Speaker 1: And because I don't know, yeah, well then we started talking.
Speaker 1: I don't know that we knew each other before I said, Hey,
Speaker 1: come out on the road and do shows. Did we Nope,
Speaker 1: we had never met. So the story with me learning
Speaker 1: your music is that there were other songwriters that you're
Speaker 1: either friends of or their fans of yours. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: heard that last night for the first time, and I
Speaker 1: was like, how they're Morgan and Caitlin Smith, and you know,
Speaker 1: they would say, hey, Jillian Jacklin is really great. You should,
Speaker 1: you know, really listen to music that's really sweet. And
Speaker 1: the first time that I listened to your music, I
Speaker 1: was like, wow, I actually like her music, not just
Speaker 1: for my job but for my personal taste. Like I
Speaker 1: like your sound because it's cool and it's a little
Speaker 1: bit throwback. It's a little total leftist center. And so
Speaker 1: I don't know if you like the description of your
Speaker 1: music or not. I appreciate any and all descriptions because
Speaker 1: I don't know where to start. I get asked that
Speaker 1: question all the time. How do you describe it? And
Speaker 1: I I don't quite know how to put it into words.
Speaker 1: It's like, it's just me, It's what I do. But anyway,
Speaker 1: continue it was I was like, man, she's way cool,
Speaker 1: so she's probably gonna be too cool. So I just said, hey,
Speaker 1: come out and do some shows. And when you were
Speaker 1: out playing with Ryan Adams and I saw your plans,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, man, she's about to come out
Speaker 1: with the Raging Idiots. It gets no more polarof than
Speaker 1: Ryan Adams to the Raging Idiots. But like I said,
Speaker 1: you have sort of created this this you know, niche
Speaker 1: in this market where you do something really unique and
Speaker 1: you also word artists that nobody else is listening to.
Speaker 1: So for me, it was an opportunity to obviously get
Speaker 1: to know you, but kind of to you know, meet
Speaker 1: your fans and play music for people that seem to
Speaker 1: really want to hear new artists. And that was important
Speaker 1: to me first and foremost. What's the difference in opening
Speaker 1: for Ryan Adams and opening for me? Rus are actually
Speaker 1: the same? Like full theaters? Yeah, it's like the same,
Speaker 1: because yours were what three three thousand and four thousand
Speaker 1: theaters to three. But so that was the vibe. I'll
Speaker 1: only play theaters because I have to. When you're in
Speaker 1: a chair, yeah, your attention is forward. Yeah, You're not
Speaker 1: spending a lot time talking people behind you to the
Speaker 1: side of you. So I want to captive audience me too,
Speaker 1: and so that's that's why I only play theaters unless
Speaker 1: the festival comes. Yeah. No, I that's you. And there
Speaker 1: were some similarities with you with your shows and Ryan's,
Speaker 1: but only to go ahead. Um no, what was the difference? Um?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. He's like there was a
Speaker 1: lot of sage burning backstage. Yeah, yeah, I know. He
Speaker 1: he like z ends out his whole backstage. So it's
Speaker 1: like he brings a you know, a pac Man on
Speaker 1: the road and then he burns like all this incense
Speaker 1: and stuff like a video game. Yeah, like the full
Speaker 1: pac Man video game, Like he brings it with him
Speaker 1: and yeah, no he that was such a fluke thing anyway,
Speaker 1: I mean that that happened. How does that happen? Did
Speaker 1: he hear your music? Yeah? He heard my song hate
Speaker 1: Me and uh I guess on Spotify and he messaged
Speaker 1: me on Twitter and he was like, hey, did you
Speaker 1: write this is this you singing? I'm like, yes, that's cool, right,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, Ryan at Oh I freaked out like the
Speaker 1: gap from Summer sixty nine Robin Hood. Yeah, No, I
Speaker 1: am a I am a huge, huge fan, like have
Speaker 1: been for a long time. So of course that was crazy.
Speaker 1: And then like a month later he had he had
Speaker 1: slots opening up, and so my agent called me was like, hey,
Speaker 1: Ryan Adams wants to know if you can be in
Speaker 1: Minneapolis tomorrow and I was like, yes I can. Who
Speaker 1: paid more for the opening? Because I think I paid
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars a show? Did I pay more to
Speaker 1: Ryan Adams? Pay more? You don't have to tell me
Speaker 1: how much you paid. I just wonder who paid you
Speaker 1: more to how much did you pay me a thousand
Speaker 1: bucks a show? I feel like it was more than that.
Speaker 1: You think he paid you more? No, I think you
Speaker 1: think that. I won't pay anyone less than a thousand
Speaker 1: bucks because I wanted them to make a little money
Speaker 1: aside from just travel. Because it was a thousand he
Speaker 1: paid a little bit more. He did. Come on, he's
Speaker 1: probably making more than two. If I charge you more
Speaker 1: for a ticket, that's what I gotta do. I gotta
Speaker 1: take care of the artist better. Please, You're awesome. We
Speaker 1: had a lot of fun. I'm fun right, so fun.
Speaker 1: My point was some of the nicest people you have
Speaker 1: around you. You surround yourself, so I surround like everybody
Speaker 1: around me. Has to be just like they are every
Speaker 1: everyone they are Mike d Eddie, like all sweet people. Yeah, yeah, Ellen, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love Ellen. It was I have a really great crew. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you have to be awesome as a human to roll
Speaker 1: on my team, all my teams, if it's my morning show,
Speaker 1: the band, the standard crew. I mean you took my
Speaker 1: tour manager. Wait a second, I forgot you a trick. No,
Speaker 1: I didn't say it's a bad thing. I'm actually very
Speaker 1: very happy for her. I have an awesome tour manager.
Speaker 1: She's so great she is. Yeah, and I did call
Speaker 1: you because I was happy that you you took her.
Speaker 1: I don't want to take her from you, No, I
Speaker 1: would tell you. And if you can offer her a
Speaker 1: better job to take. I only want people to have
Speaker 1: great jobs and have great lives and careers. Well, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know how great. It's not an upgrade, that's
Speaker 1: for sure, because you put her on a tour bus.
Speaker 1: She's going to be driving a van with me, so
Speaker 1: we dropped sometimes if it's three or four hours, okay,
Speaker 1: well we put a bus, you know, fancy plane. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know that stuff. I know you do. I got
Speaker 1: the offer a couple of times. I couldn't make it happen,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to, but I had more than people.
Speaker 1: There are only so many seats. I know, I know,
Speaker 1: but you did. So. I have a tour manager and
Speaker 1: her name Titia. She's awesome. Did you meet her out
Speaker 1: with me? Is that how you knew her? And then
Speaker 1: Julian tried to hire him like she did hire her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but not. I don't think you hired her from me
Speaker 1: at all. You're just using her outside of me. I think.
Speaker 1: I think that's the case. Yeah, I think that's the case.
Speaker 1: You know, speaking of private jets, I just learned that
Speaker 1: artists will play shows like for these private jet companies
Speaker 1: and barter for flight time. And I was like, people
Speaker 1: in society, I will do this. That's the that's how
Speaker 1: you get in, Like I just it's amazing. Without I
Speaker 1: don't want to put him on. I would say his name,
Speaker 1: but I think tell you after recording. He came to
Speaker 1: me the other Day said he you should do more
Speaker 1: of this. I have did deal and so are you
Speaker 1: play shows and then they give you ours. That's crazy.
Speaker 1: You don't pay any money. You may have to play
Speaker 1: taxes on it. Okay, there's the one thing you can't
Speaker 1: avoid taxes. Yeah, but it is amazing and I can't
Speaker 1: say that happened. It's not a system. I just have
Speaker 1: done that before and they go, hey, can I use
Speaker 1: your services and exchange We'll give you our services. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's yes, it is great. Um. All my point was
Speaker 1: was that you you seemed quite difficult to approach, and
Speaker 1: then I said, you know what, I'm just gonna see
Speaker 1: and then I was completely wrong. You're super You seem
Speaker 1: super cool because you were super cool. Sometimes people look
Speaker 1: super cool and they're they're they're a little difficult. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's I know people will probably always say this,
Speaker 1: but like I'm really not. I'm just no, no, I
Speaker 1: vouch for that now. Yeah I'm not. But even your
Speaker 1: artwork is cool, Like there's a vibe to you red
Speaker 1: ro cool vibeeah. Yeah, well I love that stuff. That's
Speaker 1: my one of my favorite parts of this is design.
Speaker 1: I'm like a huge just I love all things that
Speaker 1: have to do with um. I mean graphics and photography
Speaker 1: and anything visual. I've just always loved that stuff. So
Speaker 1: I do all of it myself, and I kind of
Speaker 1: just tell you, yeah, most most of it. I mean
Speaker 1: some stuff I can't actually do, like on Photoshop, so
Speaker 1: I have someone from my label do it. So I
Speaker 1: do Microsoft paint no old school in the computer with
Speaker 1: the colors. Okay, we do a commercial, all right. Let
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Speaker 1: a better way to cook. Okay, So let's let's talk
Speaker 1: about your music for a second. The first song, because
Speaker 1: I remember I had to come into the you've been
Speaker 1: on the radio show before? Yeah, So I remember I
Speaker 1: was flying to Mexico that day and we went in
Speaker 1: at like seven, What time show going? Well, I know
Speaker 1: it starts to five, but you think you came in later. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we came in and um, you had called us like
Speaker 1: on a Monday, and it was a Wednesday or something,
Speaker 1: and so you know, I had wanted to be on
Speaker 1: your show for a long time, and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh shit, okay, we're going in like in two days.
Speaker 1: And I had never done that before. That's right. It
Speaker 1: was your first ever radio You did the word ship.
Speaker 1: You did that's right. And we were like, whoa, you
Speaker 1: can't do that because on this you can say whatever
Speaker 1: you want, because this isn't good because these airwaves aren't
Speaker 1: regulated by the government. The government owns the radio airwaves
Speaker 1: and they regulate them, right, and you were breaking the law,
Speaker 1: but they don't put you in jail. They and I
Speaker 1: had just come off a million dollar fine about ten
Speaker 1: months prior. You didn't have famillion dollars. I got fined
Speaker 1: a million of my company paid it for me. Okay,
Speaker 1: I want pay. I mean, I guess that's a big plan.
Speaker 1: That's a multis like, but I cost my company a
Speaker 1: million dollars for something you said, yeah, for something I
Speaker 1: did on the air. And so when you came on
Speaker 1: and you cursed, were like, but I brought you in.
Speaker 1: Nobody had prepped me before I walked into the road.
Speaker 1: I told you that was the best way to come
Speaker 1: in because you weren't media trained. Yeah, and I haven't
Speaker 1: been since them and you shouldn't be if you actually
Speaker 1: have thoughts. I feel like you shouldn't be. The only
Speaker 1: things that that real art and I say artists people
Speaker 1: to have something to say creatively, maybe not speak it
Speaker 1: or sing. But the only thing you should really be
Speaker 1: trained on or the quirks if you go uh or
Speaker 1: your mouth goes, or if you kept scratching yourself like
Speaker 1: you just did for the whole the whole thing, just
Speaker 1: like those are the little things that you should be
Speaker 1: told about, right, Yeah, but you don't have those, so
Speaker 1: you're good. So you came in. Here's what I remember
Speaker 1: from this. You came in and you I was really nervous.
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell Oh, yeah, I was very nervous. I
Speaker 1: don't think we've done any shows together by then either.
Speaker 1: And then I remember that I like had to put
Speaker 1: the lyrics to rich Girl up on my iPhone and
Speaker 1: I couldn't get my phone too. It was just and
Speaker 1: I was like probably shaking and sweating, and I don't
Speaker 1: you know what what sucks about me is that in
Speaker 1: the same thing, I guess with anyone, I've been doing
Speaker 1: it so long, I don't know what it's like to
Speaker 1: come from the other side. Yeah, I get that. So
Speaker 1: it's intimidating though walking into that room knowing who you
Speaker 1: guys are. It is, yeah, because everybody has played that show,
Speaker 1: like everyone important, and so when you finally get to
Speaker 1: play the show, you're like, oh, I remember you came
Speaker 1: in and again I was a big fan, so I said, hey,
Speaker 1: I WI want you to play multiple songs, and I
Speaker 1: think you played two of your own and a cover,
Speaker 1: which is rare because most of the time, so my audience,
Speaker 1: if they don't know an artist, what I like to
Speaker 1: do is let them play a cover. So the audience goes, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm familiar with the song they're playing, and I also
Speaker 1: like what they're doing, so I'm gonna listen for their
Speaker 1: original if anything else. Because some people will go covers
Speaker 1: out my thing, and I go, that's great. But they
Speaker 1: are my audiences thing for the most part, because they
Speaker 1: could be warmed up to a new artist completely. I
Speaker 1: understand that more now I have a very complicated relationship
Speaker 1: with cover songs people do. Yeah, And I think I
Speaker 1: was like just scarred as a child because I did
Speaker 1: a lot of karaoke and like had to play weddings
Speaker 1: and I just didn't. And with this age, of social media.
Speaker 1: A lot of people I think can like they only
Speaker 1: do covers, and then it just feels like, what do
Speaker 1: you have to say personally? You know, I don't need
Speaker 1: to see you sing someone else's song all the time,
Speaker 1: So I tried to stay away from that. But I
Speaker 1: get it. When an audience sees a show for the
Speaker 1: first time, they have no idea who you are. They
Speaker 1: get really excited when you play the cover song because
Speaker 1: then they feel like they can identify with first of
Speaker 1: all the song you picked. They're like, oh, okay, they
Speaker 1: like that song too, that speaks to them. And then
Speaker 1: if you do a really good job, then they've heard
Speaker 1: an awesome version of that song that they've never heard.
Speaker 1: So I am warming up to it now and I'm
Speaker 1: having to learn more covers because the country audiences love them.
Speaker 1: I don't think you should have to do a lot
Speaker 1: of them, but for me on this show, because we
Speaker 1: do about I think five million a week to listen
Speaker 1: to the show, right, so I'm dealing with a major
Speaker 1: audience at one time. And so even on the podcast
Speaker 1: when the podcast is different, even the show podcast not
Speaker 1: this one, because people can skip things, I have to
Speaker 1: keep them when I'm live and if they change it,
Speaker 1: then I may not get that as high of a ratings.
Speaker 1: So in order, if someone plays an unknown song by
Speaker 1: an unknown artist, people go check something else out. I
Speaker 1: might come back. But if you play something they know,
Speaker 1: you kind of lure them in to something that you
Speaker 1: were doing now in the tone of your voice even
Speaker 1: you know, like if they like the way you sound,
Speaker 1: And you did Rich Girl, and it's fantastic. I don't
Speaker 1: remember you're not having the lyrics. I just remember nailing it.
Speaker 1: I remember you saying it a bad word. And then
Speaker 1: you played two songs, and I remember that. And I
Speaker 1: don't look at iTunes as much because the days of
Speaker 1: downloading music are still up on us, but a lot
Speaker 1: of people are, all the younger are streaming more than downloading.
Speaker 1: But I looked at eye Twits, and both of the
Speaker 1: songs that you played on the show, I just went boom,
Speaker 1: and then they both jumped really high, which meant they
Speaker 1: bought both songs, which meant they weren't just liking a song,
Speaker 1: they were liking an artist. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's like I thought you were good. But I think
Speaker 1: my connection with the audience is a lot of times
Speaker 1: not always, but a lot of times I can speak
Speaker 1: for them and go, this is good and they liked you.
Speaker 1: And remember thinking that, Wow, she played two songs and
Speaker 1: they're both being downloaded like crazy. Yeah, well that's I
Speaker 1: have to tell you, like you gravitating towards hate Me,
Speaker 1: and I think it was hate Me and God bless or.
Speaker 1: I don't know what you played, but I remember you
Speaker 1: liked hate Me. And just the fact that you liked
Speaker 1: hate Me and decided to play that song. You know,
Speaker 1: that was a big discussion with my whole team, like, well,
Speaker 1: Bobby likes hate Me, and we were trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what the song be the single for radio. There's
Speaker 1: a difference on what and what I think because hate
Speaker 1: Me is my favorite song. Yeah it is, come on.
Speaker 1: But again, as a business guy, I would say this
Speaker 1: isn't your radio song. But at first, yeah, because I
Speaker 1: heard have something stupid enough, a little a little more
Speaker 1: tempo at first, because you have these working against you.
Speaker 1: It's a slower song and your female and it's about
Speaker 1: a relationship it Yeah, and they are all these little
Speaker 1: idiosyncracies that people will look for to shoot it down, like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's too negative. Because programmers much like myself are huge douchebags.
Speaker 1: We are, And I don't think a douchebag means you're
Speaker 1: a bad person. I think a douchebag is someone who
Speaker 1: thinks they know more than they actually do. You're probably right,
Speaker 1: I'm the epitome of a douchebag. Yeah. What I've learned
Speaker 1: from radio is I think everyone is generally still trying
Speaker 1: to figure out exactly what's going on. Um And not
Speaker 1: to discredit anyone, because I think everyone is doing their best,
Speaker 1: but I think it's it's changing really fast, and so
Speaker 1: I think people are just trying to maintain some sort
Speaker 1: of like understanding. And maybe that comes off as like,
Speaker 1: here's why, Jillian and Jacqueline, I'm the smartest person radio.
Speaker 1: You're ready, Yeah, I'm ready because I know I don't
Speaker 1: know anything. Yeah, it's very Socrates, who you really do?
Speaker 1: You really think you don't know? There's nothing to know
Speaker 1: in a creative space. You can't actually know anything. There
Speaker 1: is no form in a creative space. You can take
Speaker 1: your best guesses. You can hear things and you can
Speaker 1: try to relate them. Because I have an audience that
Speaker 1: trust what I'm seeing and what I'm hearing, and most
Speaker 1: of the time they agree with me, and so they
Speaker 1: have that trust. They give me the benefit of that.
Speaker 1: But there's I can't possibly know something that's not tangible.
Speaker 1: So you don't ever worry that you need to have
Speaker 1: like a handle on what is popular or I'm worried
Speaker 1: about that I've lost a step, but you don't. You
Speaker 1: don't worry about that. Now. If you said, what's my
Speaker 1: radio song? I could tell you. So you have like
Speaker 1: a separate part of your brain. That's like, okay, I
Speaker 1: understand what radio would want. Yeah, because that's just data analysis,
Speaker 1: watching what other douchebags are doing, you know, being knowing
Speaker 1: all the douche baggs being one myself, like it takes
Speaker 1: a solid douche bag to and I'm the king of them.
Speaker 1: So but no, but I yes, it's a different thing.
Speaker 1: But yeah, there have been I don't think about that stuff.
Speaker 1: So I don't know. Yeah, I managed to do sixteen
Speaker 1: weeks of a radio tour and I still don't check anything.
Speaker 1: I don't My brain doesn't go there. I just it
Speaker 1: would ruin my creativity. It would literally squash it and
Speaker 1: I would be dead inside. So I just can't. I
Speaker 1: just don't look at it. I don't ask questions. I'm
Speaker 1: such the opposite. Well, there's some artists that like really
Speaker 1: are good at it and they want to know and
Speaker 1: they ask all the questions and they stay up on it,
Speaker 1: and I commend them. I don't work that way. I
Speaker 1: am so personally connected to every lyric of my songs
Speaker 1: that I I it would crush me. Like if I
Speaker 1: watched something die, Do you look at comments? Let's say
Speaker 1: hate me up? Oh no YouTube, No, I would never
Speaker 1: comments because it's never good. No, you're walking into are
Speaker 1: But sometimes times I've seen, like you know, at the top,
Speaker 1: they'll have the thumbs up and the thumbs down, and
Speaker 1: I'll be like, who the hell bumbs down? Like who
Speaker 1: are you? You can go you can save an orphan
Speaker 1: from a bus flying over clip and someone thumbs down. Seriously,
Speaker 1: it's too easy to make if someone feel disliked, and
Speaker 1: there's a power in having an equal voice going I
Speaker 1: don't like it. And I finally had the power to
Speaker 1: tell someone that I don't because what I think is
Speaker 1: it's very much into the psyche of like myself. I've
Speaker 1: been told a long time that hey, you suck, you
Speaker 1: don't speak right. So the natural and I'm just using
Speaker 1: myself as an example. Yeah, I would go, oh, I
Speaker 1: don't like being told that I'm not good, So I
Speaker 1: finally have an even voice, and I'm going to tell
Speaker 1: someone they're not good. And I think a lot of
Speaker 1: that happens. So, yeah, I don't think they actually just
Speaker 1: like things on Facebook page. I can't. I don't even
Speaker 1: go and I say this on the air, I don't
Speaker 1: go to my show's Facebook page. I don't even go
Speaker 1: look at it maybe three times a year, because it's
Speaker 1: it's just that it's just a hatred mindfield. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that's unfortunate. I don't know why people don't realize that
Speaker 1: something they type on their computer and send out into
Speaker 1: the universe, that they don't realize it has power. Because
Speaker 1: that's what I can't figure out. It's not real. It's
Speaker 1: so real to me, like I would never do that.
Speaker 1: That's just because you've had a taste of it, and
Speaker 1: maybe you may maybe a better human too. But I'd
Speaker 1: like to think I'm that have been just disgusting to me,
Speaker 1: and you meet him in person and there actually pretty
Speaker 1: nice people and they're like, oh, I'm sorry that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just I just think when you're on the computer,
Speaker 1: you don't feel like it's real life. That is probably
Speaker 1: messing up our psyche in some like very deep psychological way.
Speaker 1: I think that we're not connecting our actions with other
Speaker 1: people's feelings. We also don't think that people actually see
Speaker 1: what we're writing. If let's say Chris Rock puts out
Speaker 1: a comedy special and I give a little comment, I
Speaker 1: don't think, yeah, that's true. I really feel like there's
Speaker 1: enough disassociation that you're like, yeah, I get it. You
Speaker 1: feel free and clear and safe. But will he absolutely yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean probably probably. I won't mention. His name is
Speaker 1: a plus less artist and I'm very friendly with and
Speaker 1: he put his out out and he was reading reviews
Speaker 1: of it and he was like, he's like, I can't
Speaker 1: believe that the people he was reading literal reviews the
Speaker 1: day it came out is he's an ape you can
Speaker 1: get And he was like, the album was huge. See.
Speaker 1: That just goes to show though there's everything is relative too.
Speaker 1: I'm learning that everything is relative and everything there's conditions
Speaker 1: on things, So you know, I think that for me, um,
Speaker 1: I just try to remember to only focus on the
Speaker 1: things that I actually have control over because otherwise there's
Speaker 1: somebody out there that's gonna say something about me, and
Speaker 1: it's going to get back to me, and it's probably
Speaker 1: gonna hurt my feelings. But I don't I don't even.
Speaker 1: I think I'm so afraid of like knowing that people
Speaker 1: could be that horrible to me, because I am not
Speaker 1: at the point where I'm getting bombarded with like mean stuff.
Speaker 1: Like everyone's pretty generally nice to me online. But there
Speaker 1: will come a day maybe when you exposure rises. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then people are like, oh, she's big. She's big
Speaker 1: enough now that I can throw stones and she probably
Speaker 1: won't notice. That's weird to me because I'm just here,
Speaker 1: like writing songs about my life. That feels weird. I
Speaker 1: think that that's also what makes you cut through, Like
Speaker 1: what is your biggest strength turns to be your biggest
Speaker 1: weakness as well. Yeah maybe, And I'm also I've sort
Speaker 1: of like realized that I have to keep holding onto
Speaker 1: this underdog mentality. Whenever you feel like you're getting to
Speaker 1: the next step, I think you have to keep your
Speaker 1: mind one step behind the step you just took, because
Speaker 1: if you actually believe you are where you are, then
Speaker 1: you start to get delusional and I think that I
Speaker 1: always want to keep this underdog mentality of like I
Speaker 1: am the underdog and I can't believe I'm here because
Speaker 1: if I ever get comfortable in any situation I'm in,
Speaker 1: you know, it's probably just gonna, like, first of all,
Speaker 1: fall apart. And I don't want to believe any hype
Speaker 1: that ever happens around me. And that's all with who
Speaker 1: you surround yourself with, because I'm perpetually the underdog. But
Speaker 1: when you start putting people around your people coming, why say, oh,
Speaker 1: you you get a million dollar fine? Next thing? You know?
Speaker 1: That for me was the I was out of control. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I got a million dollar fine. And now I'm
Speaker 1: not really that out of control anymore. I just kind
Speaker 1: of out of control. But no, I think that it's
Speaker 1: a lot with who you surround yourself with, you know.
Speaker 1: With me, I like all joking aside. I've I've kept
Speaker 1: the same people from when I was doing nothing. I'm
Speaker 1: just grinding it out in one town, an awesome city.
Speaker 1: But we were the underdoggings in one city much less
Speaker 1: we weren't syndicated, we weren't anything. I think that's incredible
Speaker 1: that you have all your friends on this show with you.
Speaker 1: It's the only thing that kept me somewhat normal, has
Speaker 1: made me successful with surrounding myself with that layer of Hey, Bobby,
Speaker 1: you're being a douchebag right now. That's what Amy my
Speaker 1: coast does. Feel like you're out of You're a little
Speaker 1: out of control right now. I kind of be in.
Speaker 1: And they've been with me so long that I go, huh,
Speaker 1: at least I'm going to evaluate this. Yes, I don't
Speaker 1: always agree, but that's been it for me, is keeping
Speaker 1: the people around me. You said something last night because
Speaker 1: we had a show last night where I took my
Speaker 1: class who every year, I picked five artists and I go, hey,
Speaker 1: this is a big year, and you're one of them
Speaker 1: this year. And so you were talking last night and
Speaker 1: you're he's not your fiance. Yeah, I forgot my ring today.
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm not wearing it right now. It's
Speaker 1: at home. He's still not remembering. Yeah, I'm not used to.
Speaker 1: It's been like six days. You made the comment that
Speaker 1: he has to be on stage with you and play
Speaker 1: songs that you wrote about your boyfriend before. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: pretty funny, it is. I haven't. I didn't think about
Speaker 1: it until we were on radio tour and somebody on
Speaker 1: at the radio station was like, so, wait, you guys
Speaker 1: are dating now? That sucks for him, Like he's just
Speaker 1: singing about your ex. And I was like, Oh, he's fine, whatever,
Speaker 1: He's fine. But then later I was like, wait, that
Speaker 1: actually is kind of shitty for him. I feel bad
Speaker 1: he's and he like you know, takes it like a champs.
Speaker 1: He's not, he's not sensitive about it. But it's I
Speaker 1: think it's weird knowing how long we're gonna have to
Speaker 1: sing these songs about my ex and there's always going
Speaker 1: to be like that's story through my music, Like I'm
Speaker 1: always going to have that person as part of my
Speaker 1: musical history. And he inspired a lot of songs, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh, that's the way it goes. But I was
Speaker 1: talking to Carly Pearce about that because her songs about
Speaker 1: X and it's the same thing. You write songs about
Speaker 1: people and they come in and out of your life
Speaker 1: and then you always have to sing this song. They're
Speaker 1: like immortalized, and the feelings you had then are like
Speaker 1: stuck on me and with hate me especially that song
Speaker 1: still makes me feel like that that was tough. It
Speaker 1: was um and that person is like still someone I
Speaker 1: really care about that. I think why gravitated to it is.
Speaker 1: I mean, all your songs have this authentic texture to them,
Speaker 1: but that song was you don't even think about that
Speaker 1: song unless you're living it. Like you don't even think
Speaker 1: that's a concept unless you're living it, because you don't
Speaker 1: go I could go, hey, I want write a song
Speaker 1: about a any day in Africa. Yeah, and I could
Speaker 1: write that song even I've never been there. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: don't write this song hate me unless you've actually been
Speaker 1: in the place where that's coming out of you. And
Speaker 1: I like wrote that song the day that that whole
Speaker 1: conversation happened and where I felt all of those emotions,
Speaker 1: Like I went straight from our what was our house
Speaker 1: to my writing session and yeah, so you walk in
Speaker 1: the room and you say what to your co writers? Well,
Speaker 1: it was just tofor and I my producer when I
Speaker 1: got there, Hillary Lindsay, was showing up in like forty
Speaker 1: five minutes, and so he and I wanted to have
Speaker 1: something started before she got there. So I explained to
Speaker 1: him the conversation I had just had with my ex
Speaker 1: and I had written down in my phone this would
Speaker 1: be so much easier if you hated me. And so
Speaker 1: I was talking to Tofur about that and how I
Speaker 1: really loved this person and care about this person, and
Speaker 1: it's so much harder to walk away and not want
Speaker 1: to walk right back when you really care about him.
Speaker 1: And I was just like, I wish one of us
Speaker 1: had cheated on each other. I wish we had killed
Speaker 1: someone something that would make it easier to never want
Speaker 1: to see you again because it's not working, we're not happy,
Speaker 1: but we still love each other. It's very felt, very
Speaker 1: complicated at the time, and I was just trying to
Speaker 1: say that in a song, and I really felt that
Speaker 1: that chorus, you know, just kind of fell out as
Speaker 1: a conversation, and I think I pretty much said like
Speaker 1: the first four lines to toe for like, you know,
Speaker 1: come on and hate me, tell me you regret you
Speaker 1: ever met me, you know, make sure that it hurts
Speaker 1: right as I'm leaving. I mean, I just felt that,
Speaker 1: like I feel that I don't have a good history
Speaker 1: of relationships. No one's ever cheated. Why are you laughing?
Speaker 1: I don't know. No. I was just like I've heard
Speaker 1: some things. No, I've heard you talk about it. Yeah
Speaker 1: because anything, Yeah, because anything I mean I say everything.
Speaker 1: I feel like I said everything, but no one's ever cheated.
Speaker 1: It's always been really awesome, but it's been my fault
Speaker 1: and I might just like, Man, it would just be
Speaker 1: so much easier if you were just discussed it with
Speaker 1: me and wanted to just read me from you because
Speaker 1: they're so awesome. Yeah, I don't have a bad ex girlfriend.
Speaker 1: I've been. I've been the problem every time, and it
Speaker 1: would just maybe that's why that song hits me so hard,
Speaker 1: where it would just I just relate to it. Where
Speaker 1: do you want to get married? Yeah? I think you
Speaker 1: want to have kids? Yeah, I think so. I'm definitely
Speaker 1: not against it. I'm not someone who goes no. But
Speaker 1: again I don't. I haven't been right there where I'm going.
Speaker 1: I want to do that, and I'm not going to
Speaker 1: do it for the sake of doing it. So but
Speaker 1: because I don't, I think I do, if that's fair
Speaker 1: to say, because I am not like Nope, I don't.
Speaker 1: That means I think I do for the right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're even open to the possibility, that's why I
Speaker 1: think I am. Yeah, they definitely am. Yeah. Okay, another
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Speaker 1: for an extra ten percent off. Okay, so how about
Speaker 1: God bless this mess? As the kids say? This is
Speaker 1: the bomb? Kids say that? Does it scare you? Ever?
Speaker 1: As you're getting older, when you realize that, like kids
Speaker 1: in high school are saying things that you don't even
Speaker 1: know they're saying, Well, I feel nervous about it. If
Speaker 1: I was still doing any sort of pop, yeah, I
Speaker 1: would have to worry about that. But I feel like
Speaker 1: my audience is between the ages of twenty six and
Speaker 1: forty nine anyway, and they're not that quite either. So
Speaker 1: I'm just talking to my Now. If I had a
Speaker 1: bunch of fifteen year olds listening, I'd probably talking about
Speaker 1: how lit it was all the time. But I'm not,
Speaker 1: so I don't. I've never used that word except for making.
Speaker 1: Have you guys used to stand the word stand? Well,
Speaker 1: I understand the concept of the eminem song. How do
Speaker 1: you how do you use that in a sentence? Well?
Speaker 1: So if okay, So I'm talking to my friend Charleman
Speaker 1: earlier today, and he's a radio host in New York,
Speaker 1: and I'd be like, I wouldn't say this in normal life,
Speaker 1: but if I were to use stands, I say, hey,
Speaker 1: I saw someone that was posted on YouTube and they
Speaker 1: were standing you like crazy, like hardcore messaging, huge fan,
Speaker 1: like relentless, like obsess. Yeah, because Stand was an Eminem
Speaker 1: song from back in the day, your biggest fan, this
Speaker 1: is stand. Oh, that's where it came from. I would assume, right, yeah, Oh,
Speaker 1: I thought it was like stalker fans stand. That's what
Speaker 1: I thought. That's okay, just assumed it was imminent. Did
Speaker 1: I make that up? It's from Eminem? Right, yeah, oh
Speaker 1: that makes sense. I wrote you this song, you know,
Speaker 1: the biggest fan, this is Stand. And at the end
Speaker 1: of this you ever heard the Eminem song Stand? Yeah? Okay,
Speaker 1: at the end? What happens at the end of the song?
Speaker 1: I don't know, like drives cliff right dies, yeah, d
Speaker 1: I have a very limited repertoire of popular songs like
Speaker 1: anything that happened in the nineties. I was only listening
Speaker 1: to like country or oldies, so I don't know many
Speaker 1: of the popular songs that other people know. That's why
Speaker 1: when that happened at your show, I freaked out. Yeah, said, hey,
Speaker 1: that's play cover. She came out because we know every
Speaker 1: cover and I don't know anything. She didn't know any songs.
Speaker 1: And then finally we settled on crazy that's fine, and
Speaker 1: then it was really good and we did it the
Speaker 1: whole time. It's like, let's stop searching and you come
Speaker 1: out and crush it. And I said, Jillian, here's why
Speaker 1: you come out and do the cover, because you sell
Speaker 1: more merch. You come out during our show. I loved it.
Speaker 1: You said that to me. You're like, just sell your merch,
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm like, what do you mean. You're like,
Speaker 1: tell everybody you're selling. I'm like, I feel weird about that.
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about He's like, just tell
Speaker 1: them people want to buy it. I learned that though
Speaker 1: that You're right. It's I need to stop being so
Speaker 1: bashful about like I have stuff to sell. I I
Speaker 1: don't know why I felt weird about it and that
Speaker 1: people want to buy it. Yeah, I understand that now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I was people enjoy you. They want to know
Speaker 1: that you have stuff. They want to know that you're
Speaker 1: gonna be signing. Tell them yeah, and if they don't,
Speaker 1: they'll walk by. They don't have to buy it, but
Speaker 1: let them at least know. I think I can be
Speaker 1: uh super like critical of other people um trying to
Speaker 1: sell themselves, So I always am very aware and not
Speaker 1: wanting to come off that way. I want people to
Speaker 1: like just listen to the music. But yeah, yeah, interesting,
Speaker 1: who do I oversell myself? No, I'm not judging you.
Speaker 1: I think more so like artists like and I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I want you to talk about your music.
Speaker 1: I don't want you to talk about your merch. But
Speaker 1: I'm kind of getting around that because I'm realizing that
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things in life I've been precious
Speaker 1: about that I don't need to be anymore. My point
Speaker 1: with the merch too, was one people want to buy
Speaker 1: it if they enjoy you, that that's a moment for them.
Speaker 1: Because I go to shows. I have a John Mayer
Speaker 1: sweatshirt of more at one time, but I freaking got
Speaker 1: that from his show and I'm a big fan and
Speaker 1: I love it. I just love it in my closet.
Speaker 1: Reminds me of when I went to Minneapolis and watched
Speaker 1: him doing it his show. And also what people may
Speaker 1: not know is that you artists, that's part of how
Speaker 1: you eat. Yeah, I mean it's how you play the bills,
Speaker 1: that's how you eat. Because again I just said earlier,
Speaker 1: I paid you a thousand bucks a show, but let's
Speaker 1: say it's two thousand dollars for the weekend. You have
Speaker 1: to travel. You're buying flights at three. See, this is
Speaker 1: the stuff that I start to glassy. I got my
Speaker 1: eyes for your guitar player. You gotta pay for hotel room.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to come out in the black, no,
Speaker 1: you know. For I am like, I am very romantic
Speaker 1: about my career a lot of the times, and I'm
Speaker 1: thankful that I have people around me that do the
Speaker 1: other stuff, because I love the mystical, magical world of
Speaker 1: making music and I don't want to be totally desensitized
Speaker 1: by all the other stuff. On the on the other hand,
Speaker 1: I'm the most o c D type, a organized artist,
Speaker 1: so I also get people telling me I need to
Speaker 1: calm down and stop worrying about the little details. But
Speaker 1: there's a part of me that doesn't want to know
Speaker 1: about like how the prices breakdown we rent the tour bus,
Speaker 1: and how much more we sold and what the tickets are.
Speaker 1: You know, that stuff starts to make me feel anxious,
Speaker 1: so because then I just want to think about playing
Speaker 1: the show. Well, it's also your job to hire good
Speaker 1: people who make which yeah, yeah, totally, which is what
Speaker 1: I've been able to do. But I'm a schemer. I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to scheme anybody out of things. But if
Speaker 1: there's a way to manipulate media, I will do it.
Speaker 1: I think that's smart. I wish I had that if
Speaker 1: I don't think here's the difference to me in you
Speaker 1: you have a genuine talent. I scheme to find ways
Speaker 1: to make people feel like I'm talented, right, I really
Speaker 1: don't have. I don't really have anything about me that's
Speaker 1: like wow, Like I don't. I think you're an incredibly
Speaker 1: engaging personality, but that's just me. Like, I think you're
Speaker 1: interesting and your story is interesting. That's why you wrote
Speaker 1: a book about it. Yeah, but again, you have to
Speaker 1: get really invested to get there. Okay. Yeah, my talent
Speaker 1: is that I can make people feel like I mean,
Speaker 1: you could be like Ellen, Like I could see you
Speaker 1: with your own like actual TV talk show. Well enough
Speaker 1: about me, God, bless this mess. Enough? Oh I cannot.
Speaker 1: I don't want anyone pliment me or insulting me. Actually
Speaker 1: we talked about this once. I hated to skin crawl. Don't. Well,
Speaker 1: that's not true. I don't like it in the moment.
Speaker 1: I don't like receiving it. And then later I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: they said that about me. That was cool, Like you know,
Speaker 1: I kind of tuck it away to think about it later.
Speaker 1: That's cool. I should do that. You don't do that. No,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I do is I have pictures,
Speaker 1: like in my room. I have the first time that
Speaker 1: I sold out the Rheman, I keep that picture. I
Speaker 1: didn't enjoy it that not at all. It was miserable
Speaker 1: to man, because I kept thinking, how's this going to
Speaker 1: fall apart the whole time. Yeah, I've done that over
Speaker 1: and you didn't enjoy it. But I have a picture
Speaker 1: of me sitting on the stage looking at the before
Speaker 1: I came in. Yeah, I enjoyed that picture so much.
Speaker 1: I love that picture. I don't know what that sounds
Speaker 1: so sad. It's like the moment was miserable completely. My
Speaker 1: favorite theater is in Austin, Texas. The Paramount Theater went
Speaker 1: to so many shows and I have a picture of
Speaker 1: me the first stand up show I did at the Paramount.
Speaker 1: It's sold out, and after the show was over, there's
Speaker 1: a stage and that's it, and someone got a picture
Speaker 1: of me sitting on the stage just looking at it,
Speaker 1: and I really it was just like, man, I wonder,
Speaker 1: you know what they're reviewing me? Terrible, I'm sure, but
Speaker 1: it's okay. I was thinking that at the time, being miserable.
Speaker 1: But they got a picture of me, and I enjoyed
Speaker 1: that picture so much. Like I just try and have
Speaker 1: good pictures that I can appreciate later. I know, I'm
Speaker 1: looking for new therapists by the way too. It's a
Speaker 1: whole thing, but that's but I enjoy those pictures. I yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I have done that quite a few times where I
Speaker 1: have completely lived through a moment or you know, a
Speaker 1: situation in my life and just been so written with
Speaker 1: anxiety and like depression to the whole thing. And then later,
Speaker 1: you know, someone will like bring it up to me
Speaker 1: and and I'll somehow find like a sliver of goodness
Speaker 1: in it. But it was torture, like the whole thing
Speaker 1: going through it was just awful. But you know, as
Speaker 1: I've gotten older, I've done that so many times that
Speaker 1: now that I've gotten older. I'm like, stop doing that.
Speaker 1: Don't don't waste your life being miserable. Like through the
Speaker 1: port and stuff. There was huge shows, like really exciting
Speaker 1: shows that I remember. I was just the whole show
Speaker 1: I'm playing and I'm thinking, these people hit me, nobody
Speaker 1: likes it. Oh my god, why am I here? I
Speaker 1: want to leave? And we just play like a whole
Speaker 1: set and then get off stage and everyone's like, great job,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, it's warble. They're lying, They're lying.
Speaker 1: I was convinced that it was the worst, and then
Speaker 1: I'll see like a video back and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: it wasn't that bad. Okay, everything's then you're doing the
Speaker 1: same thing. Yeah, I came back to this song. Also,
Speaker 1: I'd like to say this too. I think that when
Speaker 1: we start talking, we always get off onto something and
Speaker 1: we actually have a pret backup with always. But because
Speaker 1: of that, I really don't know much about you personally
Speaker 1: because we always start talking about nothing, and then minutes
Speaker 1: later Jillian got to go on stage. So let's just
Speaker 1: sit down and talking about the music for a second. Jillian, Jacqueline,
Speaker 1: tell me about this God left it this mess song. Okay,
Speaker 1: I like it a lot. Thank you. I like this
Speaker 1: song too, this song is It was a surprise to
Speaker 1: me this song. I was sort of turned off by
Speaker 1: the initial idea of the title. I thought it was
Speaker 1: something that I would never be able to sell as
Speaker 1: an artist because I don't go to church and I
Speaker 1: don't really pray that often, and I just didn't grow
Speaker 1: up super religious, and so I just felt kind of
Speaker 1: like it felt weird for me to sing a song
Speaker 1: called God Bless this Mess. But Tofur had the title
Speaker 1: and he was like, we have to write this. This
Speaker 1: is gonna be great. And he knows that I'm a
Speaker 1: basket case. He's my best friend and my producer. He
Speaker 1: knows everything about me. I'm now marrying his brother. I mean,
Speaker 1: we have a very long history. So he and I
Speaker 1: were just talking about how I have gone through many
Speaker 1: stages of my life in my career feeling very anxious
Speaker 1: about what's happening next and forgetting to be where I
Speaker 1: am and kind of punishing myself for that and just
Speaker 1: basically being like a downer when I didn't need to be.
Speaker 1: That's kind of been my my m O for for
Speaker 1: quite a while. And so we were talking about just
Speaker 1: how to embrace that and not judge yourself for it
Speaker 1: and be like, yeah, I am kind of a mess
Speaker 1: and I make mistakes and I waste a lot of
Speaker 1: time worrying about stuff and blah blah blah. So we
Speaker 1: wrote the chorus at my dad's house, uh like right
Speaker 1: before we're about to eat dinner. I was up there
Speaker 1: in New York for a fundraiser, and so tofor was
Speaker 1: with me to play the show with me, and so
Speaker 1: he wrote the chorus and we really liked it, and
Speaker 1: the melody was like done, we had it all figured out,
Speaker 1: and then we wrote these verses that were sort of
Speaker 1: like I I I like I do this and my
Speaker 1: car just broke down and dine like real life stuff,
Speaker 1: and it just got really heavy and really moby and
Speaker 1: I was like, nobody wants to hear this. It's too
Speaker 1: self indulgent. It's not working. And we were going up
Speaker 1: to write with Laurie McKenna and Boston, like a couple
Speaker 1: of months from then. So we decided to bring her
Speaker 1: the chorus and scrap the verses we had, and we
Speaker 1: brought it up there and played her the chorus, and
Speaker 1: Laurie immediately said something. She said, here's to the Brokens,
Speaker 1: the Misfits and wannabes, and I was like, what did
Speaker 1: you just say? And she's like, well, what if we
Speaker 1: just like make it sort of all inclusive, like all
Speaker 1: of us that make our mistakes and that don't know
Speaker 1: what we're doing. And I was like, that's really brilliant, okay,
Speaker 1: And then the rest just fell out and there's you know,
Speaker 1: there's tinges of truth in there, Like in the second verse,
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, here's to the view from the
Speaker 1: tile of the bathroom floor. And for me, that was
Speaker 1: a a very poignant lyric because I, um always sit
Speaker 1: on the floor when I'm like going through like horrible
Speaker 1: life moments. I don't know why. I just sit on
Speaker 1: the floor when I'm crying, And and there have been
Speaker 1: you know, there's like quarter life crisiss I would call
Speaker 1: them where I would be on the bathroom floor and
Speaker 1: just like what am I going to do next? Um?
Speaker 1: And that resonated with me a lot with my music career,
Speaker 1: just a lot of moments where things didn't go the
Speaker 1: way I thought they might. And so that song became
Speaker 1: sort of this like almost embarrassingly truthful UM story for me.
Speaker 1: You know, the core it's just kind of felt like, oh, man, like,
Speaker 1: am I gonna admit that this is like about me?
Speaker 1: And uh, I didn't really want to. So we pitched it.
Speaker 1: We pitched it for other artists, and my publishing company
Speaker 1: got it to Tim mcgrowan Faith Hill and they had
Speaker 1: it on hold for a year. So the whole time
Speaker 1: are you thinking they were going to cut it? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: for the whole year, I was like, Yeah, they're gonna
Speaker 1: cut it and they'll be great. And I think, I
Speaker 1: don't know if this is true, but I heard that
Speaker 1: Cam had even heard it and she really liked it,
Speaker 1: so I was like, great, someone else will do it justice.
Speaker 1: And then they didn't cut it, and or they cut
Speaker 1: it but didn't put it on the record, I don't know.
Speaker 1: And then I was in the studio and I was
Speaker 1: making my my record right after I signed my record deal,
Speaker 1: and my label just kept bringing that song up and
Speaker 1: they're like, what about God bless this mess? You know,
Speaker 1: it's this huge anthemic ballad, and I was fighting it
Speaker 1: because I just I don't know something about it felt
Speaker 1: like I didn't want to be preachy. And then we
Speaker 1: ended up playing the song for the band The musicians
Speaker 1: who we had these incredible musicians, Tony Lucido and Derek
Speaker 1: Wells and Fred altering him. And so we played them
Speaker 1: the verse and the chorus of the song, and they
Speaker 1: stopped us halfway through the first chorus and they were like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we were gonna we gotta cut this song. They just
Speaker 1: loved it, and so we cut it and we tracked
Speaker 1: the vocal that day. And and then as I was
Speaker 1: listening to it back in the studio, I was hit
Speaker 1: by this thought. I've been very careful and very like
Speaker 1: strategic for most of my career, and I've thought that
Speaker 1: I've always been in control and always been making these
Speaker 1: moves to try to get to the next step. And
Speaker 1: and that song was playing in the studio and I
Speaker 1: was listening to it back, and I was like feeling
Speaker 1: so overwhelmed and sort of um like I would I
Speaker 1: had been put in my place by that song, and
Speaker 1: I realized my album I wasn't going to dictate what
Speaker 1: my album was that song and the songs that actually
Speaker 1: told the truth, we're going to create who I am
Speaker 1: as an artist. I think sometimes we get this idea
Speaker 1: in our heads of oh, I'm this ind of artists
Speaker 1: and I sound like this, and then you have just
Speaker 1: songs that come along and you're like, oh okay, like
Speaker 1: it redefines it for you, and you you realize that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, you can't really force something. You just have
Speaker 1: to let it be what it is. And that song
Speaker 1: was just sort of a bigger lesson for me, um
Speaker 1: in just kind of being myself. I guess dissertation. Right,
Speaker 1: there's good music school. Okay, I have a lot more
Speaker 1: to talk about. I know we're before how long we
Speaker 1: into this? We should do a two parter. We've never
Speaker 1: gonna break this into two parts that way people can
Speaker 1: consume it. All right, So that's all for today. When
Speaker 1: we come back with you, by the way, stream download
Speaker 1: Jillian's record, uh SIDEA yes, yeah, and the next time
Speaker 1: on the next episode The Bobby Cast. We've never done
Speaker 1: this before. Yeah, I've ever done two parts. I'm one.
Speaker 1: Jillian made a real diva demand before she got over
Speaker 1: to the house, which is where we are now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that when we start the next episode
Speaker 1: of The Bobby Cast. Jillian, We'll see you next time. Alright, alright, bye,
Speaker 1: see you later.