Speaker 1: It's nine o one with Jenny Garth and Tory spelling. Okay,
Speaker 1: you guys, this has been a big one. We had Peppergate,
Speaker 1: and Michael Lang, the director, is here today to talk
Speaker 1: to us about what really happened.
Speaker 2: He's going to set the record straight.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 2: Hey, Michael Lang, Hey, Hey.
Speaker 3: How's how come I'm the only one that looks older?
Speaker 1: You really don't you look the same.
Speaker 3: This was all dark when you last.
Speaker 2: Saw me, all your beard hairs, your beard hairs.
Speaker 3: And there was more of this.
Speaker 1: Oh boy, you really don't look older. Like to think
Speaker 1: that it was thirty years ago. My gosh, well not
Speaker 1: the last time we saw you, because we saw you
Speaker 1: the season ten.
Speaker 3: Right, but.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, where do we start?
Speaker 3: Oh god, should.
Speaker 1: We start with our email exchange?
Speaker 3: Let's just start with that.
Speaker 1: Okay. So obviously our fans know that we had an
Speaker 1: incident that we now have called Peppergate where we talked
Speaker 1: to a guest star and he from you know, gave
Speaker 1: his perception of how what it was like being on set.
Speaker 1: It started with a story of Shannon coming in with
Speaker 1: a Boa constrictor is that right, Jen, yep? Around her neck,
Speaker 1: around her neck, which you don't remember.
Speaker 2: A constrictor at all on set? No, was it a constrictor?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Maybe it was a python constrictor on your neck? You
Speaker 2: I would kill you, It.
Speaker 3: Would definitely kill you. Maybe not Hannon, though it might
Speaker 3: kill the bullet constrictor.
Speaker 2: Oh man, Yeah, so okay, go on, there was a
Speaker 2: deadly bow.
Speaker 1: Because Jen knows I usually have a pretty good memory
Speaker 1: about stuff, and as he started to tell this story,
Speaker 1: I even went, I don't remember that.
Speaker 2: We didn't know that. Neither of us remember the snake.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's a pretty major thing. So maybe we
Speaker 1: should have started there being like, hmm, things are a
Speaker 1: little off. Then it obviously we went into talking about
Speaker 1: he and I. He was the ski instructor and we
Speaker 1: had a romantic scene in front of the fireplace, but
Speaker 1: I was still Donna was still in love with David,
Speaker 1: and he told a story that he uh that you
Speaker 1: told me that it was great. I should put the
Speaker 1: scene on my reel. And then when I left the
Speaker 1: set that you said, I don't know why she's on
Speaker 1: the show.
Speaker 3: I don't mean to laugh. I looked at the scene
Speaker 3: this morning, because you know, directors, we like the prep.
Speaker 3: So I looked at the scene, and it hit me
Speaker 3: when I was looking at the scene. First of all,
Speaker 3: it was a nice scene. The fire was excellent, and
Speaker 3: I loved my first shot. I'm a genius, my first
Speaker 3: shot pulling back from the fire to that beautiful two
Speaker 3: shot of the two of you. And then the scene
Speaker 3: starts and I'm thinking, well, Tory, he's really good. She's good.
Speaker 3: And then I'm thinking, and he's met kind of mad.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's very handsome, but kind of med. So
Speaker 3: I realized what it was. I have no analysis of
Speaker 3: the python thing that I can't figure out at all,
Speaker 3: but I know exactly what it was he was projecting
Speaker 3: because in his head he was thinking, why am I
Speaker 3: on the show? And after thirty years he somehow spun
Speaker 3: it in his head too that I said, why is
Speaker 3: she on the show? When what I probably what he
Speaker 3: really was hearing was why is he on the show?
Speaker 3: Which actually dovetails with a story because I this is
Speaker 3: so funny that this came up, because there's a story
Speaker 3: I tell about the casting experience from our side of
Speaker 3: the of the room, and that's one of the stories
Speaker 3: I tell his casting session because.
Speaker 1: You cast him right in your episode.
Speaker 3: Okay, this is the this is it's amazing that this
Speaker 3: came up with this guy. So basically, Chuck Rosen was
Speaker 3: in on the casting session. He did not come to
Speaker 3: all of them, but I think because it was a
Speaker 3: scene with you, and it was, you know, a pretty
Speaker 3: important you know, not a huge amount of scenes that
Speaker 3: he had, but important that you had made the decision
Speaker 3: even though there was some kind of chemistry between you
Speaker 3: and the ski guy, but that your heart really belonged
Speaker 3: to David. So it was an important scene, a pivotal
Speaker 3: decision on Donna's part. So Chuck wanted to be there
Speaker 3: to make sure that we cast the right guy. So
Speaker 3: we saw a bunch of guys and he comes in
Speaker 3: and he was very good, and so we finished and
Speaker 3: I didn't really have any notes for him, but Chuck says,
Speaker 3: can I is it okay if I give him a note?
Speaker 3: So I'm like, I mean, he's you know, Chuck was
Speaker 3: the exact producer, so what I thought it was nice
Speaker 3: for him to ask, So I said, yeah, of course.
Speaker 3: So he says, and this is so funny because it's
Speaker 3: such a producer note as opposed to I mean, a
Speaker 3: director would never give a note like this. But the Chuck.
Speaker 3: He said it was really good. So he whatever he
Speaker 3: learned in his produce how to how to cast when
Speaker 3: you're a producer, give him a nice compliment first, that's
Speaker 3: the same in directing school. So he said, it was
Speaker 3: really good. But this guy, this guy is just a
Speaker 3: boot guy, and he's only ever going to be a
Speaker 3: boot guy. He's never going to be like an assistant
Speaker 3: manager of the place. He's just going to always be
Speaker 3: the boot guy. And I got the feeling from you
Speaker 3: your performance that you were going to be more than
Speaker 3: a boot guy. But that's not what I'm looking for it.
Speaker 3: I'm looking for just the boot guy. And in my mind,
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, I kind of get what he's saying, But
Speaker 3: how is an actor supposed to assimilate that note? I mean,
Speaker 3: it takes a lot. There's a lot to unpack there,
Speaker 3: and it's not just about the boots in the in
Speaker 3: the box. But so that's what he says, right, So
Speaker 3: to his credit, to Pepper's credit, he just nodded and oh, okay,
Speaker 3: I got it, and he did it again and it
Speaker 3: seemed dissatisfied Chuck, and he left and he got the part, obviously,
Speaker 3: So now we shoot the scene and the next day
Speaker 3: I got a call from Chuck. He says, you know what, Michael,
Speaker 3: I guess the guy just didn't really take my note
Speaker 3: to heart because he still felt like he was going
Speaker 3: to be more than a boot guy. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh God, bless him. You know, Chuck, he's,
Speaker 3: you know, such a great you know, such a great
Speaker 3: hearted guy.
Speaker 2: All I ever wanted to be was just the boot
Speaker 2: guy guy.
Speaker 3: And believe it or not, whenever I occasionally do you know,
Speaker 3: panels or whatever with actors and wanting to know about
Speaker 3: the audition process, I always tell that.
Speaker 1: Story, just the boots man, just the boots. So what
Speaker 1: did that mean to him?
Speaker 2: That meant like reel it back, or don't don't be
Speaker 2: so high on yourself, or don't feel like matter what
Speaker 2: was Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think I think what Chuck meant was he he
Speaker 3: felt like he was a little too yeah, high engaged.
Speaker 3: He's just he's just fitting her for boots and that's it.
Speaker 2: And then making out there.
Speaker 3: And then making out with her. And I don't know
Speaker 3: where the boots came into the making out scene, but
Speaker 3: you know, producer notes, they're very strange. But anyway, so
Speaker 3: it's funny that thirty years later, this guy pops up
Speaker 3: and there's a big controversy now with me. And also
Speaker 3: I loved when he said because I listened to a
Speaker 3: bit of the podcast, you know, your podcast about with
Speaker 3: him saying and I love that he said. I was
Speaker 3: there saying, oh, baby, yeah, that's really great. That's really doll, Doll.
Speaker 3: I'm thinking I don't think I ever would ever, That's
Speaker 3: not in my little package of tricks.
Speaker 2: Just say hey, doll, just say it one time.
Speaker 3: Right, Hey, hey, there you go. The only person I
Speaker 3: call doll is Patty Lapone, and I don't need It's
Speaker 3: not even doll with her, it's doll.
Speaker 1: It's all, Oh my goodness. Well, I obviously got very
Speaker 1: reactive during that episode because you and I always had
Speaker 1: such a great relationship. To this day, whenever I think
Speaker 1: of our directors in our experience, you come to mind,
Speaker 1: it was just we we were friends. You were great
Speaker 1: at getting all of us, and we, I don't know,
Speaker 1: we just felt our best we're with you. So during
Speaker 1: our email exchange, I felt bad because we did have
Speaker 1: a moment where you said you felt a little hurt
Speaker 1: that after all that relationship we had for ten years,
Speaker 1: that we immediately believed this guy, and I think it
Speaker 1: was just a re and I apologize for that because
Speaker 1: I was very reactive. I was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: and I thought about it and I was so upset
Speaker 1: and I told Jen I'm so upset afterwards, and then
Speaker 1: our producer Amy and I actually talked after that show,
Speaker 1: and she said, Okay, let's just talk it out for
Speaker 1: a second. Even if he thought that for a second,
Speaker 1: no one would be that stupid to say it out
Speaker 1: loud in an open set about the boss's daughter. And
Speaker 1: I was like, who yeah, okay, take myself out of
Speaker 1: it and how I was feeling, You're right, so even
Speaker 1: if it was just that and you really thought I sucked.
Speaker 1: But and then Michael said, I said, my eighteen year
Speaker 1: old self is still like holding onto that, and was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, maybe I sucked. And I was the
Speaker 1: producer's daughter, so was it whole horrible? And Michael Lange
Speaker 1: told me to shut the tell my age yearl self
Speaker 1: to shut the fuck up, and I was like, you're right, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right.
Speaker 2: Well, I feel I feel better now that you guys
Speaker 2: have cleared that up.
Speaker 1: Okay, I feel.
Speaker 3: Better, Okay, I feel better too.
Speaker 2: I do, because you didn't dis direct that episode. You
Speaker 2: directed thirty No. Twelve more episodes after that, exactly, exactly,
Speaker 2: over the span of season four, all the way to season.
Speaker 3: Ten, exactly.
Speaker 2: That's a long run for That.
Speaker 3: Was one of my first ones.
Speaker 1: I think season Yeah, Peppercaine, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it was right, it was sort of I
Speaker 3: guess midway through season four, seventeen was it? Episode seventeen
Speaker 3: was in it? Yeah, whatever it was. And then the
Speaker 3: irony of it is, you know, as I said in
Speaker 3: my email to you or whatever the Instagram thing I said,
Speaker 3: you know, there were people who said that, who thought,
Speaker 3: not only thought, but said, you know, she only got
Speaker 3: the job because she's the boss's daughter. And the irony
Speaker 3: of now I forgot his name, Pepper, the irony of
Speaker 3: Pepper's story is that I if I ever heard anyone
Speaker 3: say that, I would again go down their throat. And
Speaker 3: because you know, I thought you were fantastic in that part,
Speaker 3: I mean, you were, Donna. I don't I can't, you know,
Speaker 3: I can't imagine anyone doing that part better than you
Speaker 3: bringing that that person to.
Speaker 1: Life, thank you.
Speaker 3: That's why I got so pissed off when people would
Speaker 3: bring that up, and I said, I don't want to
Speaker 3: hear that around me. Don't ever say that to me.
Speaker 1: But I get it, and we know that exists. And
Speaker 1: when people, you know, work with people that are their family,
Speaker 1: there's always going to be someone that says it. And
Speaker 1: it was something I always tried to excel at because
Speaker 1: I didn't want to ever just remain the boss's daughter.
Speaker 1: In fact, you know, like the first the pilot, there
Speaker 1: wasn't even a name. I was like Kelly's friend. It
Speaker 1: was like friend number one. And obviously I got that
Speaker 1: because of my dad. Like we tell funny stories, but
Speaker 1: you know, but I worked really hard and and I'm
Speaker 1: proud of being Donna. So anyway, wait, so now that
Speaker 1: we cleared that up, we just want to we want
Speaker 1: you to tell fun stories about your time on the
Speaker 1: show with us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because when you came in, the show was already
Speaker 2: going well, Like it was already it was going, well,
Speaker 2: how was it coming in?
Speaker 3: I was so excited to do the show because you know,
Speaker 3: it was a huge you know, it was culturally, you know,
Speaker 3: it was just a huge show. And it was in
Speaker 3: fact I used subsequently in my career, I would always
Speaker 3: use nine O two and zero, like when I did
Speaker 3: The OC. I did quite a few episodes of the OC,
Speaker 3: And when those actors would start kind of feeling themselves,
Speaker 3: I would say, well, I would, I would. I would say,
Speaker 3: do you know? And then I would bring up one
Speaker 3: of the characters whose name I won't mention, and he
Speaker 3: and this other actor on Nosie would say no, and
Speaker 3: I would say, exactly, so he was on nine o
Speaker 3: two or maybe she or maybe it I'm not gonna say,
Speaker 3: or another was on nine and oh. And this was
Speaker 3: only like ten years ago, and Nino two and oh
Speaker 3: was a huge hit, Like thirty million people every week
Speaker 3: would watch the show, and these actors could go nowhere
Speaker 3: in the world without being mob by fans. And our
Speaker 3: little show that oh see. You know, it's a it's
Speaker 3: a definitely popular show, but it's not even close to
Speaker 3: nine O two and oh. And you don't know who
Speaker 3: this person was who was on the show. So when
Speaker 3: you start feeling on your oats, just remember that dig in,
Speaker 3: be professional, do your job, and know that this is
Speaker 3: all fleeting, so don't feel so big about yourself. And
Speaker 3: that's it.
Speaker 2: You always had a way of just like really speaking
Speaker 2: to the actors like they were your friends, like you're
Speaker 2: very a commonality between you and them, and I think
Speaker 2: that that is what always made you so liked by us,
Speaker 2: is that And we kind of let you in in
Speaker 2: a way that we probably didn't let other directors in.
Speaker 3: Right. Well, you know, I try to be understanding of
Speaker 3: what goes on in actors' heads. I've done a little
Speaker 3: bit of acting myself, and it's always a crushing experience.
Speaker 3: So I appre no, I mean, I so like. The
Speaker 3: other thing that would be would piss me off is
Speaker 3: when the crew would start complaining when an actor would say,
Speaker 3: you're in my eye line, and then the crew and
Speaker 3: I would shut them down to because I'm like, you
Speaker 3: know what, they have to create this world that excludes
Speaker 3: all of this equipment, lights, noises that come in, and
Speaker 3: they have to become a character that they're not and
Speaker 3: create this illusion for the audience and shut the fuck
Speaker 3: up with the eyeline thing whatever they need make that happen.
Speaker 3: It's so hard you can't even imagine. And you bitch
Speaker 3: about this, just shut up and you know, pull focus, okay, whatever,
Speaker 3: you know. It's like it's you know, I know, I'm
Speaker 3: very protective of actors, not that they need my protection,
Speaker 3: but okay, they do.
Speaker 1: Teddy Bear, Teddy Bear.
Speaker 3: So basically here. So my thing about nine or two
Speaker 3: and zero, it's I loved the show. I loved everything
Speaker 3: about it. And one of the reasons is like, actually,
Speaker 3: I just drove by that street that we used to
Speaker 3: shoot on, yeah, Calvert, and whenever I drive by there,
Speaker 3: I always think of movie magic to the max, because
Speaker 3: that was a pretty gnarly area and here we are.
Speaker 1: Do you ever think about the porn that was being filmed?
Speaker 2: Okay, I do think about airport flying overhead every.
Speaker 3: Pat exactly, and that's another thing that you guys had
Speaker 3: to figure out how to exclude that from your magical
Speaker 3: world that you're creating in front of the camera. So
Speaker 3: whenever I drive by it, I think this show embodies
Speaker 3: movie magic, the height of movie magic, because there we
Speaker 3: are across the street from a porn distributing company, driving
Speaker 3: through an area where we could just as soon get
Speaker 3: drugs or shot on the way to work. And then
Speaker 3: then we go into this stage, which admittedly, if you
Speaker 3: look beyond the actual sets, was pretty crappy, and we're
Speaker 3: creating this magical world of Beverly Hills, super spoiled you know, elite,
Speaker 3: not elite, but you know, privileged humans, and that's the
Speaker 3: way we're creating. Then we walk outside of the real
Speaker 3: world to get it's like, oh.
Speaker 2: It is pretty funny when you think about it.
Speaker 3: So and the thing about it is the show. What
Speaker 3: I loved about the show, one of the just in
Speaker 3: the big general sense, was that it never pretended to
Speaker 3: be anything more than what it was. It was very
Speaker 3: grounded in terms of what the show was trying to accomplish,
Speaker 3: what the goal was. From a production point of view,
Speaker 3: and even from an esthetic and creative point of view.
Speaker 3: It was not pretentious, even though it was about potentially
Speaker 3: pretentious people. But the show itself was always here, we're
Speaker 3: presenting this world to you. There it is, and either
Speaker 3: learn from it, not learn from it, enjoy it, whatever
Speaker 3: aspect that you get from watching a television show. It's
Speaker 3: yours for the taking. But we're not going to make
Speaker 3: any comment about it one way or the other, Whereas
Speaker 3: so many shows that I've worked on are just pretentious.
Speaker 3: I think we were so creating and we're so artsy fartsy,
Speaker 3: and it's like, come on, it's a TV show. It's
Speaker 3: entertained I'm not saying it's bad to be artistic, but
Speaker 3: don't you know, that's just part of what we do.
Speaker 3: And I think, right, you're right, And I'm not saying
Speaker 3: that nine to two and O was not. It was
Speaker 3: very art I mean, you know, we did cool shots
Speaker 3: and a lot of movement, and the performances were always
Speaker 3: dead on, and you know, the subject matter was important
Speaker 3: to people so and but it never presented itself as
Speaker 3: like all hoity toity. It was just here, here you go,
Speaker 3: here's our show. I dope you like it.
Speaker 2: Seeing as you were on from season four to season intend,
Speaker 2: did you see the dynamic change within the the inner
Speaker 2: workings of the show throughout all those years, because there
Speaker 2: were so many internal changes, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like with the cast, you mean general like you know,
Speaker 1: like or like.
Speaker 3: Actually believe it or not. And it's an interesting I
Speaker 3: never really thought about it, but a lot of shows
Speaker 3: within like after the first season, it's like a marriage,
Speaker 3: Like the first season is sort of the honeymoon, and
Speaker 3: then then it goes into oh, it's just nice, it's
Speaker 3: a nice, comfortable and then you end up hating each
Speaker 3: other everyone. But that never really happened as far as
Speaker 3: I know on nine o two, and oh, I think
Speaker 3: everyone pretty much got along.
Speaker 2: The people came, and people came and went, you know,
Speaker 2: and nobody was there that didn't want to be there.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, So I think it was great and
Speaker 3: the same with the crew was always great. And I
Speaker 3: think it's you know, a lot of it. I think
Speaker 3: was also a lot of it, Torri, was because of
Speaker 3: your dad, because there was like I remember, like I
Speaker 3: wanted this, uh this shot. We shot it. I don't
Speaker 3: know if you remember this. We shot it and at
Speaker 3: Lax one time and it was in terminal too, and
Speaker 3: I wanted to I thought when we were scouting and
Speaker 3: I said, oh, wouldn't it be cool if we saw
Speaker 3: a plane. There was these big bay windows at the
Speaker 3: end of the terminal and I said, oh, wouldn't it
Speaker 3: be cool if I panned with the plane and then
Speaker 3: tilt down and reveal the scene inside. And then the
Speaker 3: guy with us said, oh, well, the planes are on
Speaker 3: the ground by then, and I went, oh, okay. And
Speaker 3: then I said, well, what if we got a picture
Speaker 3: of a plane. And Tom Victor, who was the production designer,
Speaker 3: he said, oh, yeah we could, Yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 3: So so now I go back and now I have
Speaker 3: to pitch it to Paul Wagner, and I can't remember
Speaker 3: the John Peree I think was the production manager the
Speaker 3: so so I pitched it to them and Paul says
Speaker 3: to me, and this is like the magic words. Do
Speaker 3: you think you could sell this to mister Spelling because
Speaker 3: that's always like so everything was within the framework of
Speaker 3: what's mister Spelling going to think? And it was funny
Speaker 3: that very few people ever called him Aaron. It was
Speaker 3: always mister Spelling or the mister was the other thing
Speaker 3: you could call him, the mister. I actually was finally
Speaker 3: allowed to call him Aaron. I did a pilot and
Speaker 3: I called I kept calling him mister Spelling, and he
Speaker 3: said just call me Aaron. I'm like, oh, that's like okay.
Speaker 1: That's so see, we didn't see that part. So in
Speaker 1: production they would still call him mister Spelling.
Speaker 3: Mister Spelling wild yeah and then but but that was
Speaker 3: always sort of the hovering. That was the thing that
Speaker 3: hovered over everything. Was like if you if you're bad,
Speaker 3: you're going to have to talk to the mister or
Speaker 3: mister Spelling, And so no one ever wanted to have
Speaker 3: that conversation with him.
Speaker 2: What do you say, what happened with the plane?
Speaker 3: Oh well, so finally, so I pitched it, and so
Speaker 3: Paul wagged, or John Peay says to Tom how much
Speaker 3: is this going to cost? And Tom said about three
Speaker 3: hundred bucks. So literally, Paul says, for three hundred bucks,
Speaker 3: it's going to be worth it to see you two
Speaker 3: guys look like a bunch of idiots. And of course
Speaker 3: it worked like a charm.
Speaker 1: It works.
Speaker 3: It worked. In fact, I got a call the next
Speaker 3: day from Duke Vincent. Do you remember Duke? Of course,
Speaker 3: so he and he was a pilot, he had been
Speaker 3: a pilot. So he calls me and he says, Lang,
Speaker 3: I thought you were into production and you're you know,
Speaker 3: you always get things done so fast. I can't believe
Speaker 3: you would. You did ten takes to get that plane
Speaker 3: in the shot. No, we ended up we had to
Speaker 3: do like sometimes because it's windy. So it was a
Speaker 3: little cardboard It was basically a cardboard plane, and sometimes
Speaker 3: it would kind of shimmy a little bit, so but
Speaker 3: I would immediately cut, so it wasn't really ten because
Speaker 3: and then so he said, you know, I know that
Speaker 3: it's at least two minutes between each landing and so
Speaker 3: that means you spent twenty minutes just trying to get
Speaker 3: that one shot. And I said, Duke, Duke, it wasn't
Speaker 3: a plane. It was a picture of a plane. This
Speaker 3: is I know a plane. When I say I fly planes,
Speaker 3: I know a real plane when I see what I said, Duke,
Speaker 3: I'm telling you, I promise that it was a picture
Speaker 3: of a plane.
Speaker 1: It was a fighter pilot, right.
Speaker 2: What reason was that.
Speaker 3: It was the one? I think it was. Mister Walsh
Speaker 3: goes to Washington.
Speaker 2: Maybe I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you should check it out. It's pretty cool. Oh no,
Speaker 3: it was what I did on my summer vacation, that's
Speaker 3: the one. It was what I did on my summer vacation.
Speaker 3: Pretty true.
Speaker 1: I was like, what did you do on your summer vacation?
Speaker 1: I can't remember.
Speaker 2: I can't believe you remember the titles of the shows
Speaker 2: you directed some of them.
Speaker 3: I do, Yes, I know. It's pretty strange.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. So we're obviously rewatching the show. We
Speaker 1: haven't seen it consecutive ly in thirty years, and season
Speaker 1: four we're now on, and things are happening. There's about
Speaker 1: to be huge changes on the show. So it's like,
Speaker 1: it's crazy for us to be like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: here's the core like cast. It's about the change next season. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you came into it when it was already like
Speaker 1: it was going down that path. Right, So next season,
Speaker 1: Shannon is leaving, Tiffany's coming in.
Speaker 2: Did you ever have any like creative differences with any
Speaker 2: of the cast members?
Speaker 3: You know? I mean, I mean, there's been very few
Speaker 3: actors in my career that I could say I've had
Speaker 3: any issues with, So I mean in general, because like
Speaker 3: I said, I'm sensitive to what you guys have to
Speaker 3: go through to get to do what you do. It's
Speaker 3: incredibly hard. You make it look easy, but anyone who
Speaker 3: tries to do it will know immediately that it's really
Speaker 3: not that easy. And there's plenty of examples on TV
Speaker 3: of people it's not that easy.
Speaker 1: Do you remember the last episode you did season ten?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, it was the second to last episode of
Speaker 3: the show.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, that was an ultimate.
Speaker 3: The penultimate was called so yeah. And actually I have
Speaker 3: another kind of favorite memory with you, Torri, when we
Speaker 3: were shooting out at the shic. I think it was
Speaker 3: the shick estate that big. We had a carnival. Remember
Speaker 3: that episode. It was a two parter. It had a
Speaker 3: big carnival. We had a ferris wheel and all kinds
Speaker 3: of rides, and we had baby Face was the performer.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: And so so we had a big stage that we
Speaker 3: had put up at the on the on the location,
Speaker 3: and it was you and I because David was he
Speaker 3: was doing some is.
Speaker 1: That when Oh no, no, that's not when he cheated
Speaker 1: on me.
Speaker 3: No, he was playing with baby Face. Okay, I think
Speaker 3: he played the bass or something, so oh no, maybe keyboard.
Speaker 3: He might have been playing key So anyway, so you
Speaker 3: and I are up on the stage. We're looking out
Speaker 3: over this big carnival that we had set up and
Speaker 3: I said to you, and I said, at your sweet
Speaker 3: sixteen party? Is this? What? Did you have something like
Speaker 3: this at your sweet sixteen party? And I thought I
Speaker 3: was kidding and you said, well, it wasn't quite this big,
Speaker 3: but yes.
Speaker 1: Fair Oh my gosh, it's so nice. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: sorry we caught up with you because of this incident,
Speaker 1: but it's nice to catch up with you.
Speaker 3: It is nice to catch feel. Ultimately we can think
Speaker 3: whatever salt oh no, pepper.
Speaker 1: The fans really like the fans were very upset and
Speaker 1: they were very much on it was on your side, like, yeah, it.
Speaker 2: Was the very he said. She he said kind of yeah,
Speaker 2: Oh it's right.
Speaker 3: I read some of the things of the comments on
Speaker 3: Instagram and they were very upset. Yeah, I mean both said.
Speaker 3: It was sort of both sides. Oh. The other thing
Speaker 3: about the python story that well, is that it's like
Speaker 3: it was so ridiculous like like and also did he
Speaker 3: say that everyone came to Shannon's defense when I was
Speaker 3: telling her she couldn't have the python?
Speaker 1: Okay, so here's my question. You said that he said
Speaker 1: that he that you said he she couldn't have the
Speaker 1: python on set? But I thought he said right. But
Speaker 1: I thought he said that she walked in with the
Speaker 1: python and that she started like going in at you,
Speaker 1: like I hope you're going to do a better job
Speaker 1: than last week's director because she had had a problem
Speaker 1: with the previous director, and it was something like that, Wow,
Speaker 1: it wasn't about the python.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I must have misheard his because I just
Speaker 3: was is that true, John?
Speaker 2: That is what he said. I don't know what the
Speaker 2: all the the argument was about, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, well I guess I must have done a
Speaker 3: better job because I did eleven more episodes.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, like yeah, I don't even know what happened
Speaker 1: the previous week with the director that was on then
Speaker 1: that who knows if any of this is true.
Speaker 2: I know all alleged.
Speaker 3: Legend a legend, i'd say a legend.
Speaker 1: And that.
Speaker 2: If there was a python, that's legendary.
Speaker 3: Exactly, I can pretty much guarantee there was. I actually
Speaker 3: did a show where I had a twenty five foot
Speaker 3: Boa constrictor on the show, and uh, it weighed over
Speaker 3: three hundred pounds. Pretty great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be heavy for her.
Speaker 3: She's a little little thing, because those those pythons get pretty,
Speaker 3: they're pretty big. Well, maybe it would be a baby python.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she came out with a little porn snake.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was paint this picture however we want it.
Speaker 1: Maybe one of for fiancees had bought her a python bag.
Speaker 1: Maybe that had just happened, or.
Speaker 3: It could have been a boa, but like the feather boa.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe now that was jam.
Speaker 2: I have one really important, probably last question for you.
Speaker 2: Were we your favorite cast? Ever?
Speaker 1: Why are you hesitating?
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, because I'm trying to give it a good thought.
Speaker 3: I would say pretty close, pretty close. I would say,
Speaker 3: you know, I never liked to I never really like
Speaker 3: when people say what's your favorite color, what your favorite music?
Speaker 3: I never am good with that answer. So it's the
Speaker 3: same thing because everyone, I mean I kind of everyone's
Speaker 3: kind of my favorite. I would have a much easier
Speaker 3: time saying the people who I did not.
Speaker 1: Like working with, Okay, not like working with.
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding about you guys. In terms of preparedness
Speaker 3: and punctuality and general level of professionalism, yes, definitely favored
Speaker 3: and no no pushback, just always happy to do the work,
Speaker 3: happy to be there, happy to be doing the show
Speaker 3: always and right through to the very end. So that
Speaker 3: is rare, So that definitely yes, I would not have
Speaker 3: to give that a second thought. And that's kind of
Speaker 3: the most important thing because we're never I mean, we're
Speaker 3: going to be colleagues, but not necessarily friends. So I
Speaker 3: think professionalism was And also you guys were so young,
Speaker 3: so like to be young and that professional and that
Speaker 3: buttoned up and prepared that's pretty impressive. And the schedule,
Speaker 3: as I'm sure you remember, it was we did a
Speaker 3: crap load of work every day. I mean it was,
Speaker 3: it was a tight, tight show, and we never were
Speaker 3: allowed to go over I think it was it was
Speaker 3: it ten hours, definitely, it was no more than twelve
Speaker 3: for sure.
Speaker 2: I think there was more more than in.
Speaker 3: The first season. Maybe by the time I got there,
Speaker 3: they were never more than twelve hour.
Speaker 1: Days for us.
Speaker 2: It was probably fourteen because of hair and makeup and trip.
Speaker 3: Right, that's yeah, you guys, that's right. You guys would
Speaker 3: always be longer because you come in earlier. But do
Speaker 3: you remember the episode we did on the Titanic. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't mean the Titanic. That was fun and that
Speaker 3: was a good example of how the show is. So
Speaker 3: I we shot there six days. If you recall, it
Speaker 3: was Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and then a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.
Speaker 3: So I decided because I lived, it was like forty
Speaker 3: five minutes from there to my house, so there was
Speaker 3: a couple of days. There was one day we had
Speaker 3: it was the Goo Goo Dolls were played and they
Speaker 3: played three songs. We had three songs by the Goo
Speaker 3: Goo Dolls, seven and a half pages with the entire cats,
Speaker 3: and two hundred and fifty extras. That was one day's work,
Speaker 3: and so I thought that's going to be a long day,
Speaker 3: and I also had I did. We had a steady
Speaker 3: cam and I did like three sixty shots around the
Speaker 3: whole place with dancing and you know they're coming off
Speaker 3: the Google dolls playing to a two shot of you
Speaker 3: guys and you know, spinning around. It was complex. So
Speaker 3: I thought, that's going to be a four. I'm going
Speaker 3: to be you know, begging them to give me another
Speaker 3: just another half hour. We finished that day in ten hours.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: Crazy.
Speaker 1: We stayed there, remember we stayed on the Queen Mary
Speaker 1: did I.
Speaker 3: It was fun. It was like we were on a
Speaker 3: little cruise.
Speaker 2: I don't remember sleeping there, but I remember we had
Speaker 2: like little rooms. You slept there.
Speaker 1: Like you and Tiffany like had like a sweet or
Speaker 1: day sweet sair No, and then Kathleen and I did.
Speaker 1: And then they took us down underneath to see where
Speaker 1: because we were like, where's the haunted areas and it's
Speaker 1: like the creation we got to go see afterwards. And
Speaker 1: then I was scared to sleep there, but I did.
Speaker 3: That's right. That was fun. It was a fun show.
Speaker 3: Though I have nothing but fond memories of that show.
Speaker 1: I remember being in our tenth season and just knowing
Speaker 1: so many actors on so many different shows at that point,
Speaker 1: and they would I would hear them complain like oh
Speaker 1: and they'd be like, oh God, you guys are in
Speaker 1: your tenth season. You must just want to get out
Speaker 1: of here. And I remember thinking, like thinking about that
Speaker 1: and being like, gosh, I had never thought of that before.
Speaker 1: There wasn't one day that I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to be here anymore. Like ten years. We always
Speaker 1: and Jenn and I even I remember we had this conversation.
Speaker 1: There was some courtroom case. I don't know why, and
Speaker 1: we had this conversation. We both because we were both
Speaker 1: one of the few ones there for the entire run.
Speaker 1: And Ian and Brian and yeah, we loved what we did.
Speaker 1: It just kept going on. Imagine like for thirty years,
Speaker 1: you could do it.
Speaker 2: We could do it. That's for you to do it. Michael,
Speaker 2: What are you working on now?
Speaker 3: Now? I am working on Actually I have a couple.
Speaker 3: I have this one project which I've been nursing along
Speaker 3: for quite a few years. It's based on a series
Speaker 3: of books called Dead End Dating, and it's about a
Speaker 3: twenty six well she's actually six hundred and twenty six
Speaker 3: year old vampire who is from a very wealthy, old
Speaker 3: school vampire family, and she hates her She hates her family.
Speaker 3: She doesn't want to go into the family business. So
Speaker 3: she starts a dating service for vampires Wherewold and others,
Speaker 3: And it's set in New York City. It's sort of
Speaker 3: a like a mix between true blood and sex in
Speaker 3: the City. So, yeah, there's vampires, there's blood, there's killing,
Speaker 3: and then there's jokes and rom com stuff.
Speaker 1: Title, great concept, what's.
Speaker 2: The hold up?
Speaker 3: What's the hold up? Now? It's the holdup? It's you know,
Speaker 3: it's TV. Yeah, So that that's kind of what I've
Speaker 3: been working on. And then I also wrote a musical,
Speaker 3: My second musical. The first one was produced in North
Speaker 3: Hollywood and ran for six weeks. This one is based
Speaker 3: on Macbeth and it's set on walls in Wall Street today.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Macbeth is like a venture capital none of it.
Speaker 3: He works at a big like Goldman Sachs type company
Speaker 3: and he ends up being the King of Wall Street
Speaker 3: instead of the King of Scotland. So that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1: And my musical, what was the first one that.
Speaker 3: Was was a sort of a comedy. It was called
Speaker 3: Reunion it was about my My The guy who's the
Speaker 3: composer of both of them and I actually have known
Speaker 3: each other since eighth grade. So we went to a
Speaker 3: high school reunion. I'm not going to say how many
Speaker 3: years it was, but you can tell from my color
Speaker 3: of my beard, and we went together. It was back
Speaker 3: east and when we on the way back to LA
Speaker 3: I said to him, we need to write about this
Speaker 3: because that was really weird. So we wrote a musical
Speaker 3: about a twenty fifth high school reunion and like all
Speaker 3: the kids and you know, well, well now they're all
Speaker 3: adults coming back and it's pretty funny.
Speaker 2: That sounds funny.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was good.
Speaker 1: But anyway, will you write a musical for us?
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm going to work on it.
Speaker 1: So our favorite movie as friend is Death becomes Her?
Speaker 1: Uh huh, Meryl Streep and Goldie Han.
Speaker 3: Yep, So we want to do a musical version of
Speaker 3: that with you and Jenny. All right, I'll get.
Speaker 1: I just like to rile her up.
Speaker 3: I'm going to call my composer right now. Hold on, hello, Yeah,
Speaker 3: musical of Death becomes Her. Get on it. Okay, it'll
Speaker 3: be done.
Speaker 2: You're such a champ for coming on, and thank you
Speaker 2: digging into this very sensitive alleged situation. Well, appreciate you
Speaker 2: clearing the air.
Speaker 3: It's no longer alleged.
Speaker 2: It's dead the python.
Speaker 3: It's the past, right, it's the past. Pepper Gate.
Speaker 1: Over, over and scene.
Speaker 3: And I tell you that I'm not going to say
Speaker 3: anything mean about Pepper. I'm not going to say.
Speaker 2: Anything up there.
Speaker 3: Just like, stop right here because podcast and who knows,
Speaker 3: who knows what could happen.
Speaker 2: I can feel it coming. Thank you, Michael. It's really
Speaker 2: really great to see you.
Speaker 3: Great to see you too.
Speaker 1: You love you, love.
Speaker 3: You too, and congrats, you know, cool.
Speaker 2: All the things, all the things.
Speaker 1: Well, after this, we have six more seasons and you're
Speaker 1: a part of all those seasons. So will you come back?
Speaker 2: Have you back? Definitely relain some things to us, Yes.
Speaker 3: Yes, I would love to. I have many more stories.
Speaker 3: I'm sure I love it.
Speaker 2: Okay, dust them off, Okay, Michael, Okay, good one bye,