1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: It's nine o one with Jenny Garth and Tory spelling. Okay, 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: you guys, this has been a big one. We had Peppergate, 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 1: and Michael Lang, the director, is here today to talk 4 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: to us about what really happened. 5 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 2: He's going to set the record straight. 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: That's right. 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 2: Hey, Michael Lang, Hey, Hey. 8 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 3: How's how come I'm the only one that looks older? 9 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: You really don't you look the same. 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 3: This was all dark when you last. 11 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 2: Saw me, all your beard hairs, your beard hairs. 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 3: And there was more of this. 13 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: Oh boy, you really don't look older. Like to think 14 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: that it was thirty years ago. My gosh, well not 15 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: the last time we saw you, because we saw you 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: the season ten. 17 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 3: Right, but. 18 00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, where do we start? 19 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 3: Oh god, should. 20 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: We start with our email exchange? 21 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 3: Let's just start with that. 22 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: Okay. So obviously our fans know that we had an 23 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: incident that we now have called Peppergate where we talked 24 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: to a guest star and he from you know, gave 25 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: his perception of how what it was like being on set. 26 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: It started with a story of Shannon coming in with 27 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: a Boa constrictor is that right, Jen, yep? Around her neck, 28 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: around her neck, which you don't remember. 29 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 2: A constrictor at all on set? No, was it a constrictor? 30 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 3: No? 31 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 2: Maybe it was a python constrictor on your neck? You 32 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: I would kill you, It. 33 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 3: Would definitely kill you. Maybe not Hannon, though it might 34 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 3: kill the bullet constrictor. 35 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: Oh man, Yeah, so okay, go on, there was a 36 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: deadly bow. 37 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: Because Jen knows I usually have a pretty good memory 38 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: about stuff, and as he started to tell this story, 39 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: I even went, I don't remember that. 40 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: We didn't know that. Neither of us remember the snake. 41 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's a pretty major thing. So maybe we 42 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: should have started there being like, hmm, things are a 43 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: little off. Then it obviously we went into talking about 44 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: he and I. He was the ski instructor and we 45 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: had a romantic scene in front of the fireplace, but 46 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: I was still Donna was still in love with David, 47 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: and he told a story that he uh that you 48 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: told me that it was great. I should put the 49 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: scene on my reel. And then when I left the 50 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: set that you said, I don't know why she's on 51 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: the show. 52 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 3: I don't mean to laugh. I looked at the scene 53 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 3: this morning, because you know, directors, we like the prep. 54 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 3: So I looked at the scene, and it hit me 55 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 3: when I was looking at the scene. First of all, 56 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 3: it was a nice scene. The fire was excellent, and 57 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,640 Speaker 3: I loved my first shot. I'm a genius, my first 58 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 3: shot pulling back from the fire to that beautiful two 59 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 3: shot of the two of you. And then the scene 60 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 3: starts and I'm thinking, well, Tory, he's really good. She's good. 61 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,679 Speaker 3: And then I'm thinking, and he's met kind of mad. 62 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 3: I mean, he's very handsome, but kind of med. So 63 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 3: I realized what it was. I have no analysis of 64 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 3: the python thing that I can't figure out at all, 65 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 3: but I know exactly what it was he was projecting 66 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 3: because in his head he was thinking, why am I 67 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 3: on the show? And after thirty years he somehow spun 68 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 3: it in his head too that I said, why is 69 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,119 Speaker 3: she on the show? When what I probably what he 70 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 3: really was hearing was why is he on the show? 71 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 3: Which actually dovetails with a story because I this is 72 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 3: so funny that this came up, because there's a story 73 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 3: I tell about the casting experience from our side of 74 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 3: the of the room, and that's one of the stories 75 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 3: I tell his casting session because. 76 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: You cast him right in your episode. 77 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 3: Okay, this is the this is it's amazing that this 78 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 3: came up with this guy. So basically, Chuck Rosen was 79 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 3: in on the casting session. He did not come to 80 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 3: all of them, but I think because it was a 81 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 3: scene with you, and it was, you know, a pretty 82 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 3: important you know, not a huge amount of scenes that 83 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 3: he had, but important that you had made the decision 84 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 3: even though there was some kind of chemistry between you 85 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 3: and the ski guy, but that your heart really belonged 86 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 3: to David. So it was an important scene, a pivotal 87 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 3: decision on Donna's part. So Chuck wanted to be there 88 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 3: to make sure that we cast the right guy. So 89 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 3: we saw a bunch of guys and he comes in 90 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 3: and he was very good, and so we finished and 91 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 3: I didn't really have any notes for him, but Chuck says, 92 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 3: can I is it okay if I give him a note? 93 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 3: So I'm like, I mean, he's you know, Chuck was 94 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 3: the exact producer, so what I thought it was nice 95 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 3: for him to ask, So I said, yeah, of course. 96 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 3: So he says, and this is so funny because it's 97 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 3: such a producer note as opposed to I mean, a 98 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,119 Speaker 3: director would never give a note like this. But the Chuck. 99 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 3: He said it was really good. So he whatever he 100 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 3: learned in his produce how to how to cast when 101 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 3: you're a producer, give him a nice compliment first, that's 102 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 3: the same in directing school. So he said, it was 103 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 3: really good. But this guy, this guy is just a 104 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 3: boot guy, and he's only ever going to be a 105 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 3: boot guy. He's never going to be like an assistant 106 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 3: manager of the place. He's just going to always be 107 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 3: the boot guy. And I got the feeling from you 108 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 3: your performance that you were going to be more than 109 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 3: a boot guy. But that's not what I'm looking for it. 110 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,160 Speaker 3: I'm looking for just the boot guy. And in my mind, 111 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 3: I'm thinking, I kind of get what he's saying, But 112 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 3: how is an actor supposed to assimilate that note? I mean, 113 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 3: it takes a lot. There's a lot to unpack there, 114 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 3: and it's not just about the boots in the in 115 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 3: the box. But so that's what he says, right, So 116 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 3: to his credit, to Pepper's credit, he just nodded and oh, okay, 117 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 3: I got it, and he did it again and it 118 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 3: seemed dissatisfied Chuck, and he left and he got the part, obviously, 119 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 3: So now we shoot the scene and the next day 120 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 3: I got a call from Chuck. He says, you know what, Michael, 121 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 3: I guess the guy just didn't really take my note 122 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 3: to heart because he still felt like he was going 123 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 3: to be more than a boot guy. Oh my god, 124 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 3: I'm like, oh God, bless him. You know, Chuck, he's, 125 00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 3: you know, such a great you know, such a great 126 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 3: hearted guy. 127 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 2: All I ever wanted to be was just the boot 128 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 2: guy guy. 129 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 3: And believe it or not, whenever I occasionally do you know, 130 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,119 Speaker 3: panels or whatever with actors and wanting to know about 131 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 3: the audition process, I always tell that. 132 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: Story, just the boots man, just the boots. So what 133 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: did that mean to him? 134 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 2: That meant like reel it back, or don't don't be 135 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 2: so high on yourself, or don't feel like matter what 136 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 2: was Yeah? 137 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 3: I think I think what Chuck meant was he he 138 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 3: felt like he was a little too yeah, high engaged. 139 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 3: He's just he's just fitting her for boots and that's it. 140 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: And then making out there. 141 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 3: And then making out with her. And I don't know 142 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 3: where the boots came into the making out scene, but 143 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 3: you know, producer notes, they're very strange. But anyway, so 144 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 3: it's funny that thirty years later, this guy pops up 145 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 3: and there's a big controversy now with me. And also 146 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 3: I loved when he said because I listened to a 147 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 3: bit of the podcast, you know, your podcast about with 148 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 3: him saying and I love that he said. I was 149 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 3: there saying, oh, baby, yeah, that's really great. That's really doll, Doll. 150 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,559 Speaker 3: I'm thinking I don't think I ever would ever, That's 151 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 3: not in my little package of tricks. 152 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 2: Just say hey, doll, just say it one time. 153 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 3: Right, Hey, hey, there you go. The only person I 154 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 3: call doll is Patty Lapone, and I don't need It's 155 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 3: not even doll with her, it's doll. 156 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: It's all, Oh my goodness. Well, I obviously got very 157 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: reactive during that episode because you and I always had 158 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: such a great relationship. To this day, whenever I think 159 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: of our directors in our experience, you come to mind, 160 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: it was just we we were friends. You were great 161 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: at getting all of us, and we, I don't know, 162 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,199 Speaker 1: we just felt our best we're with you. So during 163 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: our email exchange, I felt bad because we did have 164 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: a moment where you said you felt a little hurt 165 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: that after all that relationship we had for ten years, 166 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: that we immediately believed this guy, and I think it 167 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: was just a re and I apologize for that because 168 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: I was very reactive. I was like, oh my gosh, 169 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: and I thought about it and I was so upset 170 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: and I told Jen I'm so upset afterwards, and then 171 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: our producer Amy and I actually talked after that show, 172 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: and she said, Okay, let's just talk it out for 173 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: a second. Even if he thought that for a second, 174 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 1: no one would be that stupid to say it out 175 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: loud in an open set about the boss's daughter. And 176 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: I was like, who yeah, okay, take myself out of 177 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: it and how I was feeling, You're right, so even 178 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: if it was just that and you really thought I sucked. 179 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: But and then Michael said, I said, my eighteen year 180 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: old self is still like holding onto that, and was like, 181 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: oh my god, maybe I sucked. And I was the 182 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: producer's daughter, so was it whole horrible? And Michael Lange 183 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: told me to shut the tell my age yearl self 184 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:08,239 Speaker 1: to shut the fuck up, and I was like, you're right, yeah, 185 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: that's right. 186 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: Well, I feel I feel better now that you guys 187 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 2: have cleared that up. 188 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:15,959 Speaker 1: Okay, I feel. 189 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 3: Better, Okay, I feel better too. 190 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 2: I do, because you didn't dis direct that episode. You 191 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 2: directed thirty No. Twelve more episodes after that, exactly, exactly, 192 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 2: over the span of season four, all the way to season. 193 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 3: Ten, exactly. 194 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,199 Speaker 2: That's a long run for That. 195 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 3: Was one of my first ones. 196 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: I think season Yeah, Peppercaine, Yeah. 197 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, because it was right, it was sort of I 198 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 3: guess midway through season four, seventeen was it? Episode seventeen 199 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 3: was in it? Yeah, whatever it was. And then the 200 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 3: irony of it is, you know, as I said in 201 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 3: my email to you or whatever the Instagram thing I said, 202 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 3: you know, there were people who said that, who thought, 203 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 3: not only thought, but said, you know, she only got 204 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 3: the job because she's the boss's daughter. And the irony 205 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 3: of now I forgot his name, Pepper, the irony of 206 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 3: Pepper's story is that I if I ever heard anyone 207 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 3: say that, I would again go down their throat. And 208 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 3: because you know, I thought you were fantastic in that part, 209 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 3: I mean, you were, Donna. I don't I can't, you know, 210 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 3: I can't imagine anyone doing that part better than you 211 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 3: bringing that that person to. 212 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: Life, thank you. 213 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 3: That's why I got so pissed off when people would 214 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 3: bring that up, and I said, I don't want to 215 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 3: hear that around me. Don't ever say that to me. 216 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: But I get it, and we know that exists. And 217 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: when people, you know, work with people that are their family, 218 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: there's always going to be someone that says it. And 219 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: it was something I always tried to excel at because 220 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: I didn't want to ever just remain the boss's daughter. 221 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: In fact, you know, like the first the pilot, there 222 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: wasn't even a name. I was like Kelly's friend. It 223 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: was like friend number one. And obviously I got that 224 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: because of my dad. Like we tell funny stories, but 225 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: you know, but I worked really hard and and I'm 226 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: proud of being Donna. So anyway, wait, so now that 227 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: we cleared that up, we just want to we want 228 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: you to tell fun stories about your time on the 229 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: show with us. 230 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, because when you came in, the show was already 231 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 2: going well, Like it was already it was going, well, 232 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 2: how was it coming in? 233 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 3: I was so excited to do the show because you know, 234 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 3: it was a huge you know, it was culturally, you know, 235 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 3: it was just a huge show. And it was in 236 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 3: fact I used subsequently in my career, I would always 237 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,199 Speaker 3: use nine O two and zero, like when I did 238 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 3: The OC. I did quite a few episodes of the OC, 239 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 3: And when those actors would start kind of feeling themselves, 240 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 3: I would say, well, I would, I would. I would say, 241 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 3: do you know? And then I would bring up one 242 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 3: of the characters whose name I won't mention, and he 243 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 3: and this other actor on Nosie would say no, and 244 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 3: I would say, exactly, so he was on nine o 245 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 3: two or maybe she or maybe it I'm not gonna say, 246 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 3: or another was on nine and oh. And this was 247 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 3: only like ten years ago, and Nino two and oh 248 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 3: was a huge hit, Like thirty million people every week 249 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 3: would watch the show, and these actors could go nowhere 250 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 3: in the world without being mob by fans. And our 251 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 3: little show that oh see. You know, it's a it's 252 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 3: a definitely popular show, but it's not even close to 253 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 3: nine O two and oh. And you don't know who 254 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 3: this person was who was on the show. So when 255 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,439 Speaker 3: you start feeling on your oats, just remember that dig in, 256 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 3: be professional, do your job, and know that this is 257 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 3: all fleeting, so don't feel so big about yourself. And 258 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 3: that's it. 259 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,839 Speaker 2: You always had a way of just like really speaking 260 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 2: to the actors like they were your friends, like you're 261 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 2: very a commonality between you and them, and I think 262 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 2: that that is what always made you so liked by us, 263 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 2: is that And we kind of let you in in 264 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 2: a way that we probably didn't let other directors in. 265 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 3: Right. Well, you know, I try to be understanding of 266 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 3: what goes on in actors' heads. I've done a little 267 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 3: bit of acting myself, and it's always a crushing experience. 268 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 3: So I appre no, I mean, I so like. The 269 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 3: other thing that would be would piss me off is 270 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 3: when the crew would start complaining when an actor would say, 271 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 3: you're in my eye line, and then the crew and 272 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 3: I would shut them down to because I'm like, you 273 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 3: know what, they have to create this world that excludes 274 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 3: all of this equipment, lights, noises that come in, and 275 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 3: they have to become a character that they're not and 276 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 3: create this illusion for the audience and shut the fuck 277 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 3: up with the eyeline thing whatever they need make that happen. 278 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 3: It's so hard you can't even imagine. And you bitch 279 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 3: about this, just shut up and you know, pull focus, okay, whatever, 280 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 3: you know. It's like it's you know, I know, I'm 281 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 3: very protective of actors, not that they need my protection, 282 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 3: but okay, they do. 283 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: Teddy Bear, Teddy Bear. 284 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 3: So basically here. So my thing about nine or two 285 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 3: and zero, it's I loved the show. I loved everything 286 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 3: about it. And one of the reasons is like, actually, 287 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 3: I just drove by that street that we used to 288 00:15:55,400 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 3: shoot on, yeah, Calvert, and whenever I drive by there, 289 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 3: I always think of movie magic to the max, because 290 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 3: that was a pretty gnarly area and here we are. 291 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: Do you ever think about the porn that was being filmed? 292 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 2: Okay, I do think about airport flying overhead every. 293 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 3: Pat exactly, and that's another thing that you guys had 294 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 3: to figure out how to exclude that from your magical 295 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 3: world that you're creating in front of the camera. So 296 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 3: whenever I drive by it, I think this show embodies 297 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 3: movie magic, the height of movie magic, because there we 298 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 3: are across the street from a porn distributing company, driving 299 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 3: through an area where we could just as soon get 300 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 3: drugs or shot on the way to work. And then 301 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 3: then we go into this stage, which admittedly, if you 302 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 3: look beyond the actual sets, was pretty crappy, and we're 303 00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 3: creating this magical world of Beverly Hills, super spoiled you know, elite, 304 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 3: not elite, but you know, privileged humans, and that's the 305 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 3: way we're creating. Then we walk outside of the real 306 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 3: world to get it's like, oh. 307 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 2: It is pretty funny when you think about it. 308 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 3: So and the thing about it is the show. What 309 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 3: I loved about the show, one of the just in 310 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 3: the big general sense, was that it never pretended to 311 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,400 Speaker 3: be anything more than what it was. It was very 312 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 3: grounded in terms of what the show was trying to accomplish, 313 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 3: what the goal was. From a production point of view, 314 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 3: and even from an esthetic and creative point of view. 315 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 3: It was not pretentious, even though it was about potentially 316 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 3: pretentious people. But the show itself was always here, we're 317 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 3: presenting this world to you. There it is, and either 318 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 3: learn from it, not learn from it, enjoy it, whatever 319 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 3: aspect that you get from watching a television show. It's 320 00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 3: yours for the taking. But we're not going to make 321 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 3: any comment about it one way or the other, Whereas 322 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 3: so many shows that I've worked on are just pretentious. 323 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 3: I think we were so creating and we're so artsy fartsy, 324 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 3: and it's like, come on, it's a TV show. It's 325 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 3: entertained I'm not saying it's bad to be artistic, but 326 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 3: don't you know, that's just part of what we do. 327 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 3: And I think, right, you're right, And I'm not saying 328 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 3: that nine to two and O was not. It was 329 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 3: very art I mean, you know, we did cool shots 330 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 3: and a lot of movement, and the performances were always 331 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 3: dead on, and you know, the subject matter was important 332 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 3: to people so and but it never presented itself as 333 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 3: like all hoity toity. It was just here, here you go, 334 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 3: here's our show. I dope you like it. 335 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 2: Seeing as you were on from season four to season intend, 336 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 2: did you see the dynamic change within the the inner 337 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 2: workings of the show throughout all those years, because there 338 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 2: were so many internal changes, Yeah. 339 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: Like with the cast, you mean general like you know, 340 00:18:59,040 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 1: like or like. 341 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 3: Actually believe it or not. And it's an interesting I 342 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 3: never really thought about it, but a lot of shows 343 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 3: within like after the first season, it's like a marriage, 344 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 3: Like the first season is sort of the honeymoon, and 345 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 3: then then it goes into oh, it's just nice, it's 346 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 3: a nice, comfortable and then you end up hating each 347 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 3: other everyone. But that never really happened as far as 348 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 3: I know on nine o two, and oh, I think 349 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 3: everyone pretty much got along. 350 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 2: The people came, and people came and went, you know, 351 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 2: and nobody was there that didn't want to be there. 352 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 3: I think, yeah, So I think it was great and 353 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 3: the same with the crew was always great. And I 354 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 3: think it's you know, a lot of it. I think 355 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 3: was also a lot of it, Torri, was because of 356 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 3: your dad, because there was like I remember, like I 357 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 3: wanted this, uh this shot. We shot it. I don't 358 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 3: know if you remember this. We shot it and at 359 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 3: Lax one time and it was in terminal too, and 360 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 3: I wanted to I thought when we were scouting and 361 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 3: I said, oh, wouldn't it be cool if we saw 362 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 3: a plane. There was these big bay windows at the 363 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 3: end of the terminal and I said, oh, wouldn't it 364 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 3: be cool if I panned with the plane and then 365 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 3: tilt down and reveal the scene inside. And then the 366 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 3: guy with us said, oh, well, the planes are on 367 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 3: the ground by then, and I went, oh, okay. And 368 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 3: then I said, well, what if we got a picture 369 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 3: of a plane. And Tom Victor, who was the production designer, 370 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 3: he said, oh, yeah we could, Yeah, let's do that. 371 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 3: So so now I go back and now I have 372 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,399 Speaker 3: to pitch it to Paul Wagner, and I can't remember 373 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 3: the John Peree I think was the production manager the 374 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 3: so so I pitched it to them and Paul says 375 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 3: to me, and this is like the magic words. Do 376 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 3: you think you could sell this to mister Spelling because 377 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,479 Speaker 3: that's always like so everything was within the framework of 378 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 3: what's mister Spelling going to think? And it was funny 379 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 3: that very few people ever called him Aaron. It was 380 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 3: always mister Spelling or the mister was the other thing 381 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 3: you could call him, the mister. I actually was finally 382 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 3: allowed to call him Aaron. I did a pilot and 383 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 3: I called I kept calling him mister Spelling, and he 384 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 3: said just call me Aaron. I'm like, oh, that's like okay. 385 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: That's so see, we didn't see that part. So in 386 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: production they would still call him mister Spelling. 387 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 3: Mister Spelling wild yeah and then but but that was 388 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 3: always sort of the hovering. That was the thing that 389 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 3: hovered over everything. Was like if you if you're bad, 390 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 3: you're going to have to talk to the mister or 391 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 3: mister Spelling, And so no one ever wanted to have 392 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 3: that conversation with him. 393 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,719 Speaker 2: What do you say, what happened with the plane? 394 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 3: Oh well, so finally, so I pitched it, and so 395 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 3: Paul wagged, or John Peay says to Tom how much 396 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,200 Speaker 3: is this going to cost? And Tom said about three 397 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 3: hundred bucks. So literally, Paul says, for three hundred bucks, 398 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 3: it's going to be worth it to see you two 399 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 3: guys look like a bunch of idiots. And of course 400 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 3: it worked like a charm. 401 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: It works. 402 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 3: It worked. In fact, I got a call the next 403 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 3: day from Duke Vincent. Do you remember Duke? Of course, 404 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 3: so he and he was a pilot, he had been 405 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 3: a pilot. So he calls me and he says, Lang, 406 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 3: I thought you were into production and you're you know, 407 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 3: you always get things done so fast. I can't believe 408 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 3: you would. You did ten takes to get that plane 409 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,479 Speaker 3: in the shot. No, we ended up we had to 410 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 3: do like sometimes because it's windy. So it was a 411 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 3: little cardboard It was basically a cardboard plane, and sometimes 412 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 3: it would kind of shimmy a little bit, so but 413 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 3: I would immediately cut, so it wasn't really ten because 414 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 3: and then so he said, you know, I know that 415 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 3: it's at least two minutes between each landing and so 416 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 3: that means you spent twenty minutes just trying to get 417 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 3: that one shot. And I said, Duke, Duke, it wasn't 418 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 3: a plane. It was a picture of a plane. This 419 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 3: is I know a plane. When I say I fly planes, 420 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 3: I know a real plane when I see what I said, Duke, 421 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 3: I'm telling you, I promise that it was a picture 422 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 3: of a plane. 423 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: It was a fighter pilot, right. 424 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 2: What reason was that. 425 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,719 Speaker 3: It was the one? I think it was. Mister Walsh 426 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 3: goes to Washington. 427 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 2: Maybe I can't wait to see it. 428 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, you should check it out. It's pretty cool. Oh no, 429 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,360 Speaker 3: it was what I did on my summer vacation, that's 430 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 3: the one. It was what I did on my summer vacation. 431 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 3: Pretty true. 432 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,959 Speaker 1: I was like, what did you do on your summer vacation? 433 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: I can't remember. 434 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 2: I can't believe you remember the titles of the shows 435 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 2: you directed some of them. 436 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 3: I do, Yes, I know. It's pretty strange. 437 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. So we're obviously rewatching the show. We 438 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 1: haven't seen it consecutive ly in thirty years, and season 439 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: four we're now on, and things are happening. There's about 440 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,239 Speaker 1: to be huge changes on the show. So it's like, 441 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: it's crazy for us to be like, oh my gosh, 442 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: here's the core like cast. It's about the change next season. Yeah, 443 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: and you came into it when it was already like 444 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 1: it was going down that path. Right, So next season, 445 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: Shannon is leaving, Tiffany's coming in. 446 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 2: Did you ever have any like creative differences with any 447 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 2: of the cast members? 448 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 3: You know? I mean, I mean, there's been very few 449 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 3: actors in my career that I could say I've had 450 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 3: any issues with, So I mean in general, because like 451 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 3: I said, I'm sensitive to what you guys have to 452 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 3: go through to get to do what you do. It's 453 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 3: incredibly hard. You make it look easy, but anyone who 454 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 3: tries to do it will know immediately that it's really 455 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 3: not that easy. And there's plenty of examples on TV 456 00:24:47,320 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 3: of people it's not that easy. 457 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: Do you remember the last episode you did season ten? 458 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, it was the second to last episode of 459 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 3: the show. 460 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: Okay, okay, that was an ultimate. 461 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 3: The penultimate was called so yeah. And actually I have 462 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 3: another kind of favorite memory with you, Torri, when we 463 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 3: were shooting out at the shic. I think it was 464 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 3: the shick estate that big. We had a carnival. Remember 465 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 3: that episode. It was a two parter. It had a 466 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 3: big carnival. We had a ferris wheel and all kinds 467 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 3: of rides, and we had baby Face was the performer. 468 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: Yep. 469 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 3: And so so we had a big stage that we 470 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 3: had put up at the on the on the location, 471 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 3: and it was you and I because David was he 472 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 3: was doing some is. 473 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: That when Oh no, no, that's not when he cheated 474 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: on me. 475 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 3: No, he was playing with baby Face. Okay, I think 476 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 3: he played the bass or something, so oh no, maybe keyboard. 477 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 3: He might have been playing key So anyway, so you 478 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 3: and I are up on the stage. We're looking out 479 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,719 Speaker 3: over this big carnival that we had set up and 480 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:11,199 Speaker 3: I said to you, and I said, at your sweet 481 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 3: sixteen party? Is this? What? Did you have something like 482 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 3: this at your sweet sixteen party? And I thought I 483 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 3: was kidding and you said, well, it wasn't quite this big, 484 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 3: but yes. 485 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: Fair Oh my gosh, it's so nice. I mean, I'm 486 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: sorry we caught up with you because of this incident, 487 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: but it's nice to catch up with you. 488 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 3: It is nice to catch feel. Ultimately we can think 489 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 3: whatever salt oh no, pepper. 490 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: The fans really like the fans were very upset and 491 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 1: they were very much on it was on your side, like, yeah, it. 492 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 2: Was the very he said. She he said kind of yeah, 493 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 2: Oh it's right. 494 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 3: I read some of the things of the comments on 495 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 3: Instagram and they were very upset. Yeah, I mean both said. 496 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 3: It was sort of both sides. Oh. The other thing 497 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 3: about the python story that well, is that it's like 498 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 3: it was so ridiculous like like and also did he 499 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 3: say that everyone came to Shannon's defense when I was 500 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 3: telling her she couldn't have the python? 501 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: Okay, so here's my question. You said that he said 502 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 1: that he that you said he she couldn't have the 503 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: python on set? But I thought he said right. But 504 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 1: I thought he said that she walked in with the 505 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: python and that she started like going in at you, 506 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: like I hope you're going to do a better job 507 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 1: than last week's director because she had had a problem 508 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: with the previous director, and it was something like that, Wow, 509 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: it wasn't about the python. 510 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 3: Oh okay, I must have misheard his because I just 511 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 3: was is that true, John? 512 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 2: That is what he said. I don't know what the 513 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 2: all the the argument was about, but. 514 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, well I guess I must have done a 515 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 3: better job because I did eleven more episodes. 516 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 1: Yeah right, like yeah, I don't even know what happened 517 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: the previous week with the director that was on then 518 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: that who knows if any of this is true. 519 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,239 Speaker 2: I know all alleged. 520 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 3: Legend a legend, i'd say a legend. 521 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: And that. 522 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 2: If there was a python, that's legendary. 523 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 3: Exactly, I can pretty much guarantee there was. I actually 524 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 3: did a show where I had a twenty five foot 525 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 3: Boa constrictor on the show, and uh, it weighed over 526 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 3: three hundred pounds. Pretty great. 527 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be heavy for her. 528 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 3: She's a little little thing, because those those pythons get pretty, 529 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 3: they're pretty big. Well, maybe it would be a baby python. 530 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, she came out with a little porn snake. 531 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was paint this picture however we want it. 532 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: Maybe one of for fiancees had bought her a python bag. 533 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: Maybe that had just happened, or. 534 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 3: It could have been a boa, but like the feather boa. 535 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe now that was jam. 536 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 2: I have one really important, probably last question for you. 537 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 2: Were we your favorite cast? Ever? 538 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: Why are you hesitating? 539 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 3: Oh? Well, because I'm trying to give it a good thought. 540 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 3: I would say pretty close, pretty close. I would say, 541 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 3: you know, I never liked to I never really like 542 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 3: when people say what's your favorite color, what your favorite music? 543 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 3: I never am good with that answer. So it's the 544 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 3: same thing because everyone, I mean I kind of everyone's 545 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 3: kind of my favorite. I would have a much easier 546 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 3: time saying the people who I did not. 547 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: Like working with, Okay, not like working with. 548 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 3: I'm just kidding about you guys. In terms of preparedness 549 00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 3: and punctuality and general level of professionalism, yes, definitely favored 550 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 3: and no no pushback, just always happy to do the work, 551 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 3: happy to be there, happy to be doing the show 552 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 3: always and right through to the very end. So that 553 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 3: is rare, So that definitely yes, I would not have 554 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 3: to give that a second thought. And that's kind of 555 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 3: the most important thing because we're never I mean, we're 556 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 3: going to be colleagues, but not necessarily friends. So I 557 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 3: think professionalism was And also you guys were so young, 558 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 3: so like to be young and that professional and that 559 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,160 Speaker 3: buttoned up and prepared that's pretty impressive. And the schedule, 560 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,959 Speaker 3: as I'm sure you remember, it was we did a 561 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 3: crap load of work every day. I mean it was, 562 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 3: it was a tight, tight show, and we never were 563 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 3: allowed to go over I think it was it was 564 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 3: it ten hours, definitely, it was no more than twelve 565 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 3: for sure. 566 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 2: I think there was more more than in. 567 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 3: The first season. Maybe by the time I got there, 568 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 3: they were never more than twelve hour. 569 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,239 Speaker 1: Days for us. 570 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 2: It was probably fourteen because of hair and makeup and trip. 571 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 3: Right, that's yeah, you guys, that's right. You guys would 572 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,239 Speaker 3: always be longer because you come in earlier. But do 573 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 3: you remember the episode we did on the Titanic. Yeah, 574 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 3: I don't mean the Titanic. That was fun and that 575 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 3: was a good example of how the show is. So 576 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 3: I we shot there six days. If you recall, it 577 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 3: was Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and then a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. 578 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 3: So I decided because I lived, it was like forty 579 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 3: five minutes from there to my house, so there was 580 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 3: a couple of days. There was one day we had 581 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 3: it was the Goo Goo Dolls were played and they 582 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 3: played three songs. We had three songs by the Goo 583 00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 3: Goo Dolls, seven and a half pages with the entire cats, 584 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 3: and two hundred and fifty extras. That was one day's work, 585 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 3: and so I thought that's going to be a long day, 586 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 3: and I also had I did. We had a steady 587 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 3: cam and I did like three sixty shots around the 588 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,680 Speaker 3: whole place with dancing and you know they're coming off 589 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 3: the Google dolls playing to a two shot of you 590 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 3: guys and you know, spinning around. It was complex. So 591 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 3: I thought, that's going to be a four. I'm going 592 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 3: to be you know, begging them to give me another 593 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 3: just another half hour. We finished that day in ten hours. 594 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 595 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 3: Crazy. 596 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: We stayed there, remember we stayed on the Queen Mary 597 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: did I. 598 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 3: It was fun. It was like we were on a 599 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 3: little cruise. 600 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 2: I don't remember sleeping there, but I remember we had 601 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 2: like little rooms. You slept there. 602 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: Like you and Tiffany like had like a sweet or 603 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: day sweet sair No, and then Kathleen and I did. 604 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: And then they took us down underneath to see where 605 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: because we were like, where's the haunted areas and it's 606 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: like the creation we got to go see afterwards. And 607 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: then I was scared to sleep there, but I did. 608 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 3: That's right. That was fun. It was a fun show. 609 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 3: Though I have nothing but fond memories of that show. 610 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 1: I remember being in our tenth season and just knowing 611 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: so many actors on so many different shows at that point, 612 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 1: and they would I would hear them complain like oh 613 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: and they'd be like, oh God, you guys are in 614 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: your tenth season. You must just want to get out 615 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: of here. And I remember thinking, like thinking about that 616 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: and being like, gosh, I had never thought of that before. 617 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: There wasn't one day that I was like, I don't 618 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: want to be here anymore. Like ten years. We always 619 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: and Jenn and I even I remember we had this conversation. 620 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: There was some courtroom case. I don't know why, and 621 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: we had this conversation. We both because we were both 622 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: one of the few ones there for the entire run. 623 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: And Ian and Brian and yeah, we loved what we did. 624 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: It just kept going on. Imagine like for thirty years, 625 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: you could do it. 626 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 2: We could do it. That's for you to do it. Michael, 627 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 2: What are you working on now? 628 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 3: Now? I am working on Actually I have a couple. 629 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 3: I have this one project which I've been nursing along 630 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 3: for quite a few years. It's based on a series 631 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 3: of books called Dead End Dating, and it's about a 632 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 3: twenty six well she's actually six hundred and twenty six 633 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 3: year old vampire who is from a very wealthy, old 634 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 3: school vampire family, and she hates her She hates her family. 635 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 3: She doesn't want to go into the family business. So 636 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 3: she starts a dating service for vampires Wherewold and others, 637 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 3: And it's set in New York City. It's sort of 638 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 3: a like a mix between true blood and sex in 639 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:56,240 Speaker 3: the City. So, yeah, there's vampires, there's blood, there's killing, 640 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 3: and then there's jokes and rom com stuff. 641 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: Title, great concept, what's. 642 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 2: The hold up? 643 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 3: What's the hold up? Now? It's the holdup? It's you know, 644 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 3: it's TV. Yeah, So that that's kind of what I've 645 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,759 Speaker 3: been working on. And then I also wrote a musical, 646 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 3: My second musical. The first one was produced in North 647 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 3: Hollywood and ran for six weeks. This one is based 648 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 3: on Macbeth and it's set on walls in Wall Street today. 649 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 2: Wow. 650 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, Macbeth is like a venture capital none of it. 651 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 3: He works at a big like Goldman Sachs type company 652 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,720 Speaker 3: and he ends up being the King of Wall Street 653 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 3: instead of the King of Scotland. So that's pretty cool. 654 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: And my musical, what was the first one that. 655 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 3: Was was a sort of a comedy. It was called 656 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 3: Reunion it was about my My The guy who's the 657 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 3: composer of both of them and I actually have known 658 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 3: each other since eighth grade. So we went to a 659 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 3: high school reunion. I'm not going to say how many 660 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 3: years it was, but you can tell from my color 661 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:06,879 Speaker 3: of my beard, and we went together. It was back 662 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 3: east and when we on the way back to LA 663 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 3: I said to him, we need to write about this 664 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,800 Speaker 3: because that was really weird. So we wrote a musical 665 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 3: about a twenty fifth high school reunion and like all 666 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 3: the kids and you know, well, well now they're all 667 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 3: adults coming back and it's pretty funny. 668 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 2: That sounds funny. 669 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:25,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was good. 670 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 1: But anyway, will you write a musical for us? 671 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 3: Yes, I'm going to work on it. 672 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 1: So our favorite movie as friend is Death becomes Her? 673 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: Uh huh, Meryl Streep and Goldie Han. 674 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 3: Yep, So we want to do a musical version of 675 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 3: that with you and Jenny. All right, I'll get. 676 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: I just like to rile her up. 677 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 3: I'm going to call my composer right now. Hold on, hello, Yeah, 678 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,919 Speaker 3: musical of Death becomes Her. Get on it. Okay, it'll 679 00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 3: be done. 680 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 2: You're such a champ for coming on, and thank you 681 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 2: digging into this very sensitive alleged situation. Well, appreciate you 682 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 2: clearing the air. 683 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 3: It's no longer alleged. 684 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 2: It's dead the python. 685 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 3: It's the past, right, it's the past. Pepper Gate. 686 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,320 Speaker 1: Over, over and scene. 687 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 3: And I tell you that I'm not going to say 688 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 3: anything mean about Pepper. I'm not going to say. 689 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:34,879 Speaker 2: Anything up there. 690 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 3: Just like, stop right here because podcast and who knows, 691 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 3: who knows what could happen. 692 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 2: I can feel it coming. Thank you, Michael. It's really 693 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 2: really great to see you. 694 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 3: Great to see you too. 695 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 1: You love you, love. 696 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,360 Speaker 3: You too, and congrats, you know, cool. 697 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 2: All the things, all the things. 698 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: Well, after this, we have six more seasons and you're 699 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,439 Speaker 1: a part of all those seasons. So will you come back? 700 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 2: Have you back? Definitely relain some things to us, Yes. 701 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 3: Yes, I would love to. I have many more stories. 702 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 3: I'm sure I love it. 703 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 2: Okay, dust them off, Okay, Michael, Okay, good one bye,