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Speaker 1: change your life forever for the better. Welcome to Stuff
Speaker 1: you Should Know, a production of My Heart Radios How
Speaker 1: Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark,
Speaker 1: and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant right there, and Jerry's
Speaker 1: other somewhere. This is Stuff you Should No, the Fold
Speaker 1: and Tuck edition. So Jerry's in her office now, yep,
Speaker 1: I'm in the Stuff you Should Know Studio that's right
Speaker 1: in Florida. You're at your home studio or a home studio, right,
Speaker 1: you got like eight of them. Right, You're at Elvis.
Speaker 1: Which room is closest to me by baby, I'll just
Speaker 1: go in there while we're recording from today. Man uh.
Speaker 1: And now Jerry is is like a ghost haunting the
Speaker 1: computer in here recording it remotely, right, She's like, amazing,
Speaker 1: what's the Yeah, she's she's like a ghost. You said
Speaker 1: it best. She just texted me two minutes in and said,
Speaker 1: your levels are good. So that's great, go back to
Speaker 1: sleep chairs. Sounds about right. So I was talking to
Speaker 1: Jerry earlier and she just reminded me we're talking to
Speaker 1: Origami today. She just reminded me that, um, I'm my
Speaker 1: first trip to Japan. I brought her back a paper
Speaker 1: Orgami crane and that she still has it and was
Speaker 1: thinking about that trip, Chuck, because on that trip Umi
Speaker 1: took me to Japan. Remember when you guys liked each other,
Speaker 1: you and Jerry, Yeah, we still do. It's that crane
Speaker 1: that's keeping us friends. Um. But on that trip, one
Speaker 1: of the places you took me was Hiroshima, right, sure,
Speaker 1: and it is one of the neatest places I've ever been.
Speaker 1: I know I've talked about it before, but one of
Speaker 1: the things that you'll see there are just mounds and
Speaker 1: mounds of origami cranes UM like cranes like the bird,
Speaker 1: basically the quintessential origami model, not like building cranes, and
Speaker 1: that's not what they're building. You never can't tell these days.
Speaker 1: You know, Bob the Builder had a pretty good run
Speaker 1: for a while there, so it could have been. But apparently, UM.
Speaker 1: One of the reasons you see those cranes is because
Speaker 1: there was a little girl from Hiroshima named Sadako Sasaki. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, it's very sad. So she was I think
Speaker 1: too when um the US dropped the nuclear bomb on
Speaker 1: Hiroshima and she was exposed to radiation at that tender
Speaker 1: young age and developed leukemia and she died at age twelve.
Speaker 1: But before she died, she started this project of folding
Speaker 1: a thousand paper cranes for in origami, which was kind
Speaker 1: of this long standing thing that was associated with like
Speaker 1: good luck or honor or dignity UM, and hers was
Speaker 1: that if you there's another one that if you complete
Speaker 1: a thousand cranes UM, you you have a wish. And
Speaker 1: so this little girl Sadako Sasaki. Her wish was for
Speaker 1: world peace, but she died before she could complete the
Speaker 1: cranes and the thousand cranes, and that is upsetting. But
Speaker 1: if to end it on a more heartwarming note, her
Speaker 1: classmates got together and folded the remaining cranes in her
Speaker 1: honor and they were buried with her, which is at
Speaker 1: least a slightly uplifting ending. Right. Um, So when you
Speaker 1: go to Hiroshima today, um at this peace memorial that
Speaker 1: they've built, like a whole sex into the city where
Speaker 1: the bomb went off has just been turned into this
Speaker 1: anti nuclear, anti war peace memorial. Um. There's just tons
Speaker 1: of cranes that were created by school children kind of
Speaker 1: in honor of Sadako Sasaki and for this wish for
Speaker 1: world peace. And if you stepped out of the studio
Speaker 1: and followed me into the living room, you would see
Speaker 1: a thousand paper cranes that you be folded just from
Speaker 1: me too. You know who here at work has done that?
Speaker 1: Who guess you know which? Which one of your colleagues
Speaker 1: do you think would do this? I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: I honestly don't know. There's so many varied, complex rich
Speaker 1: people that we work with that, I can't even begin
Speaker 1: to guess. I'm going to hazard a guess and say Ben, Uh,
Speaker 1: I could see been doing that? What about the other Ben?
Speaker 1: Probably not? Okay, Pam Peacock, Okay, yeah, our graphic designer
Speaker 1: who is an artist easily and Um. I asked Pam
Speaker 1: actually if I could read her Facebook post when she
Speaker 1: completed it, because I think this is instructive on uh
Speaker 1: and and you tell me whether it jibes with Humi's experience,
Speaker 1: because it's sort of is instructive on the art of oregamy.
Speaker 1: And it's more than just folding paper. It is meditative
Speaker 1: and can be relaxing and healing and all all those things.
Speaker 1: So Pam posted a photo of the final project and said,
Speaker 1: this is what a thousand orgamy cranes looks like in
Speaker 1: a pile of my coffee table tonight. I met the
Speaker 1: goal on August to fold a thousand cranes within one
Speaker 1: year's time. There were several reasons I wanted to take
Speaker 1: on the challenge. The meditative quality of folding oregamy, to
Speaker 1: practice dexterity and fine motor skills, the fun and making
Speaker 1: a flat piece of paper into something dimensional and new
Speaker 1: to make a whole bunch of something. There's a certain
Speaker 1: satisfaction in that, but the biggest reason was to cultivate
Speaker 1: more discipline within myself. To commit to a long term,
Speaker 1: ongoing project in see it through to completion is a
Speaker 1: big deal for me. Uh. And she goes on to
Speaker 1: say she has a pretty long history about getting pumped
Speaker 1: up about a project and then abandon it. And she
Speaker 1: found with two months left she only had I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: she had five hundred left to go, so ten months. Well,
Speaker 1: I think she just took some time off. Sure, Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's how you're supposed to do. You're
Speaker 1: not supposed to just sit there and do it. And
Speaker 1: one fell swoop, but kind of misses a bunch of
Speaker 1: the point, you know. Yeah. She said that she went
Speaker 1: several months without it, realized she had a couple of
Speaker 1: months and the clock was sticking, and she said, I
Speaker 1: made the decision to recommit and push myself instead of
Speaker 1: letting it go like so many other things. I know
Speaker 1: I'll still struggle with those issues, but as an exercise growth,
Speaker 1: I feel like I've leveled up a bit and continue
Speaker 1: applying these strength and skills to my art, personal and
Speaker 1: professional lives very nice and she's like, can check out
Speaker 1: my finger muscles that do they're ripped? Yeah, Yubi's middle
Speaker 1: name is stick to itiveness, So I don't think she
Speaker 1: benefited in that sense, but there's definitely like a meditating
Speaker 1: of aspect to it, And like when she was doing
Speaker 1: it for me, it was like I thought it was
Speaker 1: very sweet, and then the more I learned about it,
Speaker 1: the sweeter I realized, how you know, it was it's
Speaker 1: a I mean, to do that for somebody, uh, is
Speaker 1: pretty cool, and to do it for yourself to like
Speaker 1: Pam did, it's pretty neat as well. And I think
Speaker 1: it was also for you me she uh yeah, probably know,
Speaker 1: um yeah, I'm sure she got a tremendous amount out
Speaker 1: of it too, you know. But it was one of
Speaker 1: those things where she would just kind of work on
Speaker 1: it when she felt like it. You know. There wasn't
Speaker 1: any rush or anything like that, so it did have
Speaker 1: like kind of a meditative thing for for sure. I
Speaker 1: used to think a stick tuitiveness was a weird middle name,
Speaker 1: but when I saw it written down like in the
Speaker 1: context of her name, it just, I don't know, it
Speaker 1: looked great. You're like, I've been pronouncing that Alice all
Speaker 1: these years. It was so weird. So Pam said something
Speaker 1: that UM I saw other people mentioned too about origami
Speaker 1: is that it's transformative, like she's taking a piece of
Speaker 1: paper and transforming it into something and there's this really
Speaker 1: amazing seeing It's so there's a definite zen quality to
Speaker 1: origami paper folding, right. And there's a documentary out there
Speaker 1: called UM Between the Folds, and it's of course, of
Speaker 1: course a PBS documentary UM, but it has this kind
Speaker 1: of zen vibe to it too. It's really really mellow
Speaker 1: and low key. But some of the stuff they're talking
Speaker 1: about and showing and there's just nuts um and I'll
Speaker 1: talk about it from time to time. But there's this
Speaker 1: one guy in there name Michael la Fosse, and he
Speaker 1: describes origami as um a metamorphic type of art, where
Speaker 1: like with painting, you're adding paint, so it's an additive
Speaker 1: kind of art. With you know, sculpting from like marble,
Speaker 1: it's a subtractive art. With paper folding. In origamy, you're
Speaker 1: you're taking the same thing and it's the same thing
Speaker 1: that that um is the finished product. You're not adding
Speaker 1: to it or subtracting to It's still just a piece
Speaker 1: of paper, but you're transforming it into something else, and
Speaker 1: that is kind of the essence of Origanti itself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this one was one that I was so sure that
Speaker 1: we had done it before because it's just smacks of
Speaker 1: stuff you should know. Uh, we'd love to cover Japanese
Speaker 1: topics first of all, but I don't know. It just
Speaker 1: felt like, surely we've done this, and I had to look.
Speaker 1: I looked probably five different ways just to make sure
Speaker 1: that we hadn't done it. You're like, what kind of
Speaker 1: smart way would we title this? And well, that's what
Speaker 1: I thought. That was My fear was that it would
Speaker 1: be like called folding Madness or something stupid like that.
Speaker 1: Did you search folding madness? That just made that up?
Speaker 1: But what if that's the one that we already released.
Speaker 1: It did seem really familiar. But I think I'm probably
Speaker 1: just thinking about Bonzai maybe um, which I think is
Speaker 1: similar in a way, and not just because they're both
Speaker 1: Japanese disciplines, but I feel like the meditative quality and
Speaker 1: the the care and the precision and the spiritual aspect,
Speaker 1: I think they have a lot of overlapped there. One
Speaker 1: of the big differences though, is that, um, the that
Speaker 1: origami doesn't involve plant torture like bonsai does. Well in
Speaker 1: bonsai does isn't. Uh, there's no paper torture involved. So
Speaker 1: that's true. That's true. So um, when we talk about origami,
Speaker 1: we're actually talking about this that is technically a subset
Speaker 1: of this larger thing that actually grew out of oregami
Speaker 1: and ended up forming this kind of umbrella art form
Speaker 1: called paper folding appropriately enough, but origami everybody kind of
Speaker 1: associates that with Japan. And the weird thing is when
Speaker 1: we talk about ogamy um, which by the way, we
Speaker 1: haven't really said it, but it's taking usually one sheet
Speaker 1: of paper and folding it in certain ways so that
Speaker 1: so that it it becomes some other representation of something
Speaker 1: else or of shape or something other than that. But
Speaker 1: the point of origami is that this this shape or
Speaker 1: this new represent representation of like an animal or a
Speaker 1: person or something, it's all made just by a single
Speaker 1: sheet of paper typically and folding that paper. That's the
Speaker 1: whole key. Yeah, And one of the other keys is
Speaker 1: is that you're not gluing things, you're not cutting things.
Speaker 1: It's really just folding and it can be very basic. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I tried my hand at it today just to
Speaker 1: make some very basic things. And I definitely get the UM,
Speaker 1: I get the meditative aspects, although I was just doing
Speaker 1: it to try and do something sort of quickly for
Speaker 1: work and not in this style that you would normally
Speaker 1: do origami. I could see how if you applied that
Speaker 1: at your house, put on some good music, maybe turn
Speaker 1: the lights down a little bit, shut the door, keep
Speaker 1: keep your family far far away and your animals far
Speaker 1: far away. I could see how it could accomplish that goal.
Speaker 1: For me. I might start doing it. Some hadn't thought
Speaker 1: about keeping the family far far away? Because you mean
Speaker 1: was when she was folding that thousand cray means I'd
Speaker 1: be like, what number are you on now? What number
Speaker 1: are you on now? Every time she folded a new one. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think she probably was just an autopilot, which you
Speaker 1: do answering you what you're doing over there? Is this
Speaker 1: a crane too? Are you making another crane? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that would drive me nuts. Yeah. Um, So we should
Speaker 1: probably go over a few of the terms. Um. The
Speaker 1: term itself or gami they say, comes from order, which
Speaker 1: means to fold pretty pretty smart. And then kami, which
Speaker 1: is paper, so uru kami apparently was the original term
Speaker 1: for it, and it's kind of, I guess, just became origami,
Speaker 1: which as far as I could see, does is actually
Speaker 1: not it's not actually a word. It's kind of an
Speaker 1: offshoot of oru and kami. Yeah, and if you go
Speaker 1: to UH, I mean you can make origami out of anything.
Speaker 1: They talk about sticky notes and just copy paper. But
Speaker 1: you can actually buy kami okay a m i online
Speaker 1: if you want to go into an art store. These
Speaker 1: days it might not be so easy to go into
Speaker 1: a store, but um, that's what it might be called.
Speaker 1: There are other kinds of paper that we'll talk about later,
Speaker 1: but paper is what you need if you want to
Speaker 1: be a paper folder. You don't need a bunch of
Speaker 1: other stuff, which is a very low fi art form.
Speaker 1: It's super cool in that way. And what you end
Speaker 1: up with is called a model. Um. I guess you
Speaker 1: could call it an art piece or something if you're
Speaker 1: a little high flutin, but you're really just called models. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's any any finished origami product is called the model.
Speaker 1: There's also so this article says you need two things
Speaker 1: for origami. You need a sheet of paper and some imagination.
Speaker 1: But I would I would beg the difference. You don't
Speaker 1: even need imagination because there's so many what are called
Speaker 1: oregamy designs out there that are basically step by step
Speaker 1: illustrations of the different folds you need to make. So
Speaker 1: if you want to say, make a oregamy, donkey you.
Speaker 1: As long as you have the paper and one of
Speaker 1: these designs, you don't have to have any imagination whatsoever. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And when I was first reading this too, I thought, well,
Speaker 1: you need paper and fingers, But I realized that was
Speaker 1: quite ablest actually, because there's actually a style of origami
Speaker 1: from a British man named John Smith in the late
Speaker 1: seventies called pure Land or pure Origami that is very
Speaker 1: basic and was created in part so people who had
Speaker 1: some sort of physical impairment could still realize the joy
Speaker 1: in the meditative qualities of folding paper. I saw that too.
Speaker 1: That was the one that appeals to me the most
Speaker 1: because it's so simple. Yeah, same here. Um. Also, Chuck,
Speaker 1: did you know that the world's greatest archer is Um
Speaker 1: was born with no arms? I think we talked about that, right,
Speaker 1: I don't know. No, definitely not no, because I just
Speaker 1: saw it this past Sunday, so it's not possible we
Speaker 1: did you you just had a memory from the future
Speaker 1: that's pretty impressive in the Christopher Nolan movie. So I
Speaker 1: can't wait. But I have to say, man, I am
Speaker 1: very disappointed to see movies starting to come out on
Speaker 1: the trailers saying only in theaters. I'm like, I didn't
Speaker 1: realize we were at that point again yet. Well. I mean,
Speaker 1: his new movie Tenant is one of the It was
Speaker 1: one of the big ones back in the early spring
Speaker 1: when they were like, he's going to put it out
Speaker 1: in theaters, even if he has to bump it a
Speaker 1: month or two, Like he's not going to do an
Speaker 1: at home thing. He's not gonna wait till next year.
Speaker 1: And I think they're doing like pretty big time spacing
Speaker 1: and stuff. But I ain't go into a movie theater
Speaker 1: new and it's one of my favorite places to go.
Speaker 1: I know, like we talked about the other day and sneezing, um,
Speaker 1: how it's just so great to go see a movie
Speaker 1: in the middle of the day, you know, Yeah, can
Speaker 1: you imagine seeing a movie now and you hear someone sneeze?
Speaker 1: I would be out of there. So fast. I just
Speaker 1: start crying on the way to the movie theater. I
Speaker 1: would not be at all comfortable about that right now,
Speaker 1: So I think if actually, I think we should probably
Speaker 1: take a break. We've been yammering for fifteen minutes. I
Speaker 1: know we've made it for through the first two paragraphs.
Speaker 1: So we'll come back after this and we'll talk about paper.
Speaker 1: Very key to Oregon me right after this. Alrighty, I
Speaker 1: teased Paper, you did. Paper doesn't like to be teased.
Speaker 1: Paper did not like that. I thought about you earlier.
Speaker 1: By the way, sidebar, I was watching some old Mitch
Speaker 1: Hedberg stuff and I immediately was like, man, Josh would
Speaker 1: love these. Somebody wrote in to say, you guys, have
Speaker 1: you heard about what was it? It? Was it based
Speaker 1: on a listener mail. No, I don't know how. I
Speaker 1: think it was just in my feed on my Facebook
Speaker 1: page and I just I don't know. It popped up.
Speaker 1: It was so good joke about the belt and the
Speaker 1: belt loops. I don't know about that one. What is it?
Speaker 1: The belt is holding up the pants, but the belt
Speaker 1: loops hold up the belt. Who's the real hero here?
Speaker 1: That guy was priceless, so good. So paper is what
Speaker 1: you're gonna need if you want to practice origami. And
Speaker 1: China invented paper and about one oh five a d.
Speaker 1: But it was a luxury atom. They weren't so much
Speaker 1: into folding it, or at least into artwork, and they
Speaker 1: might have folded letters or maybe they just scrolled. At
Speaker 1: that point, I saw that they folded stuff into like
Speaker 1: gold paper gold nuggets and then set them on fire.
Speaker 1: Is offering offering to ancestors. So maybe pre prot origami, Yes,
Speaker 1: definitely prot But in the sixth century Buddhist monks introduced
Speaker 1: paper to Japan. It was pretty rare, uh and expensive
Speaker 1: here as well, and was used for you know, special
Speaker 1: occasions and stuff like that. But as paper get got
Speaker 1: a little more ubiquitous than they decided that they could
Speaker 1: start folding it in interesting ways. And it wasn't a waste, right,
Speaker 1: it was affordable, I guess. Yeah. As it became more fordable,
Speaker 1: folding became a lot more widespread, and as it became
Speaker 1: more widespread, people started doing kind of interesting things with it. Um,
Speaker 1: like you're saying, at first, it was just kind of
Speaker 1: reserved for special occasions like weddings or um. There's one
Speaker 1: called the slaw Day no she day s h I
Speaker 1: d e. I was thinking of arda um and it's
Speaker 1: like a zigzag pattern that they used to kind of
Speaker 1: denote like um, like religious places or altars or something
Speaker 1: like that. And then somebody said, well, wait, you can
Speaker 1: make a frog out of this. Check this out, and
Speaker 1: I think our agony kind of took off. And that's
Speaker 1: that's how it stayed, at least in Japan for several centuries,
Speaker 1: where it was they knew how to make a kite,
Speaker 1: they knew how to make a box, they knew how
Speaker 1: to make cranes. Cranes were huge UM and in fact,
Speaker 1: one of the first books on origami was called Folding
Speaker 1: one Thousand Cranes UM. Let's see Somemba zuru orikata um
Speaker 1: a thousand crane folding. So that was a big deal
Speaker 1: already all the way back in the eighteenth century. But
Speaker 1: UM finally in the I believe the nineteen thirties, I
Speaker 1: think around seven, there was a guy um whose name
Speaker 1: was Akira Yoshizawa. And you cannot talk about origami or
Speaker 1: paper folding, or paper or folding, or Japan or shoes
Speaker 1: without mentioning Akira Yoshizawa. This guy was this he was.
Speaker 1: He single handedly took what it was the centuries old
Speaker 1: school children's craft by this time, by the nineteen thirties,
Speaker 1: rolled around that had been static for centuries and said
Speaker 1: I'm going to turn this into an art form. And
Speaker 1: he did yeah, big time. And by this point it
Speaker 1: was widely referred to as origami. I think in the
Speaker 1: late eight I'm sorry, late seventeen hundreds it was still
Speaker 1: called orri kata and that was from that that book
Speaker 1: about the Thousand Cranes. But by this time it was origami.
Speaker 1: And he was a laborer for most of his life,
Speaker 1: and he was a hobbyist as far as origami went.
Speaker 1: But he started writing out these diagrams and basically sort
Speaker 1: of these how two's, and if you've ever looked at
Speaker 1: an origami book or something online, you know they if
Speaker 1: you don't know how to do it, they're these very simple,
Speaker 1: depending on the ultimate model that you want to end
Speaker 1: up with, uh, these diagrams that you can just follow
Speaker 1: along these lines and fold and just kind of copy
Speaker 1: what you're seeing. And he was the first person to
Speaker 1: do this and eventually published these in the nineteen fifties
Speaker 1: in books, and uh, it was a really big deal,
Speaker 1: Like it was already a popular thing in Japan. Um.
Speaker 1: Previous to that, it was actually in Spain and some
Speaker 1: other parts of Europe thanks to the Silk Road. But
Speaker 1: it really sort of popularized it worldwide, I think after
Speaker 1: his book. Yeah, well even before then, I think there
Speaker 1: was a magazine that celebrated like the New Year by
Speaker 1: commissioning him to do like the twelve signs of the
Speaker 1: zodiac and origami. They put it on their cover, and
Speaker 1: so you can imagine for Japan everything that had to
Speaker 1: do with oregamy was like, look at this kite that
Speaker 1: our kid made and now it's hanging on our refrigerator.
Speaker 1: Um to the twelve signs of the zodiac, and these
Speaker 1: things actually look kind of like a monkey and the
Speaker 1: fox looks amazing, and um, it's just what this guy
Speaker 1: did just completely blew everybody away. And very shortly after
Speaker 1: that he devised that system, started having exhibitions around the
Speaker 1: world and became like this, this revered master of origamy,
Speaker 1: like the first true origami artist, the one who said
Speaker 1: you can make an art form out of this, and
Speaker 1: he decided to live like this kind of um uh poverty.
Speaker 1: I don't want to say poverty stricken, but he poverty
Speaker 1: adjacent life, very nice, chuck, where he supported himself selling
Speaker 1: soup door to door. Um. He sold something called um sukadani,
Speaker 1: which is like a kind of a seaweed condiment that
Speaker 1: you put on rice. He'd sold. He'd sold that door
Speaker 1: to door, and he just made enough money to support
Speaker 1: his habit of um origami. That's what all he wanted
Speaker 1: to do. But what's amazing about him is he was
Speaker 1: like the pre eminent origami artist for decades. He made
Speaker 1: at least fifty thousand different models. Um and he it
Speaker 1: is just look him up right now, Akira Yoshizawa, um
Speaker 1: and he never sold a single one of them. He
Speaker 1: would lend him out for exhibitions, he would give them
Speaker 1: his gifts, but he never made a dime off of
Speaker 1: his origami. Yeah. And he's one of those that his
Speaker 1: reputation reached a point where he literally could have gotten
Speaker 1: rich selling his his models in the end. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. But that's just he just wasn't about that
Speaker 1: very like very origami yesque Yeah totally. He's like, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna sell this stuff. No, that's not the point,
Speaker 1: don't What about Tim Grant for that rhinoceros, like meet
Speaker 1: me in the back room. Some of those animals, I
Speaker 1: mean not just from him, but when you look up,
Speaker 1: you know kind of the most amazing origami and uh,
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of animals and we'll talk
Speaker 1: about that, but it's uh, it's really just astounding. It
Speaker 1: is astounding. One of the ways that he was able
Speaker 1: to take orgami from a kite and I know, I
Speaker 1: keep going back to a kite, but you know one
Speaker 1: of the base forms kind of where it was at
Speaker 1: um taking it from a kite to like he very
Speaker 1: famously made this um this gorilla, I think it's a
Speaker 1: gorilla um that you almost always see in the background
Speaker 1: behind him. It's a it's a it's an ape of
Speaker 1: it's either a gorilla or or Tyrannosaurs rex at he'd
Speaker 1: be like, you see, it's either gorilla or a car. Right.
Speaker 1: But but when he makes something, you can you know
Speaker 1: exactly what it is. Um. But one of the things
Speaker 1: about his particular kind of art was that it wasn't
Speaker 1: like every single details captured. People have taken it to
Speaker 1: that paper folders have gotten to the point where it's like, um,
Speaker 1: that guy Michael A. Fosse created a huge, easily two
Speaker 1: foot alligator, which is almost several meters at least by
Speaker 1: my estimation, um, out of a single piece of paper. UM.
Speaker 1: And it has all of like the armor, the scaly
Speaker 1: armor involved, Like there's a lot of detail. That's not
Speaker 1: what um Yoshizawa was into. His was much more expressive
Speaker 1: and um almost um impressionistic. But you knew exactly what
Speaker 1: it was when you looked at it. And he was
Speaker 1: able to do this through a technique that he created
Speaker 1: called wet folding. Yeah, and wet folding is how you
Speaker 1: can round things out. Um. You're obviously wetting the paper
Speaker 1: and that's how or you know, dampening. At least you
Speaker 1: don't want to get it too wet, and you can
Speaker 1: manipulate it a little more and you can round things
Speaker 1: out and make it look a little more like a sculpture. UM.
Speaker 1: But I really liked his style. It wasn't because it
Speaker 1: didn't seem like, uh boy, I'm out to all you
Speaker 1: and impress you with um, just something that's so detailed
Speaker 1: it'll blow your mind. They were detailed, but it wasn't
Speaker 1: like that other guy that you were talking about, Michael
Speaker 1: la Fosse. Yeah, which is you know, they're both great,
Speaker 1: but it just seemed a little more intuitive and organic. Uh.
Speaker 1: In terms of what Yoshizawa was doing. I think his
Speaker 1: technique screams, oh you like that not for sale, get
Speaker 1: out of my kitchen, and why were you here in
Speaker 1: the first place? Exactly. They're like, I work for Time magazine,
Speaker 1: but but help yourself to some soup that I sell
Speaker 1: door to doing exactly. So, Um, I guess we should
Speaker 1: talk about, you know, if somebody has, if someone's listening
Speaker 1: to this, interest has been peaked and wants to know
Speaker 1: how to how to fold them. Um, we should teach people,
Speaker 1: I think, chuck. Uh, yeah, well we'll tell you the
Speaker 1: basics at least. Um, there are you know, many, many,
Speaker 1: many types of folds. But you mentioned the kite base
Speaker 1: or the kite full old, and I said, that's one
Speaker 1: of the basics, and it is there. You can oftentimes
Speaker 1: start from a base, which is just sort of your
Speaker 1: starting shape. Um, that's your your point where you start,
Speaker 1: and then get more detail from there. And there is
Speaker 1: the kite base, the fish base, the bird base, and
Speaker 1: the frog base, and those are listed in order of
Speaker 1: difficulty from easy to hard. There's a really great site
Speaker 1: called paper Kawaii. It's spelled like Hawaii but with a K.
Speaker 1: It means cute in Japanese. And the the person who
Speaker 1: runs that site has made a huge depository of resources
Speaker 1: and um, instructional videos and diagrams and everything you could
Speaker 1: possibly want. But um, she says that there's twelve bases,
Speaker 1: or at least she instructs you on making twelve bases,
Speaker 1: so it gets even richer than those four. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean that's I got the picture that that was the
Speaker 1: four most basic original basis, and I was I was
Speaker 1: probably sure that there were more. So, Um, there's some
Speaker 1: that there's some types of models that tend to pop
Speaker 1: up more often than others, and animals are frequently created. Um.
Speaker 1: And like I was saying, like, it's not it's not
Speaker 1: necessarily you're like you're going for ultra realism. It's would
Speaker 1: be impossible to make it ultra real um. Because I
Speaker 1: don't know if we've said this yet, Like you're not
Speaker 1: supposed to use like, um, scissors or glue or tape
Speaker 1: or anything like that. Um. And some people still use
Speaker 1: scissors every once in a while, but definitely you don't
Speaker 1: use glue or tape. That's not what'sh holding these together.
Speaker 1: These models are held entirely from different types of folds
Speaker 1: that you learned from doing or a gami like. It's
Speaker 1: not just fold this direction, fold that direction. There's like
Speaker 1: reverse folds, their sinks. There's all sorts of different and
Speaker 1: interesting stuff you can do to make the paper take
Speaker 1: a certain shape that you wanted to and then also
Speaker 1: to hold itself in shape permanently from that point on.
Speaker 1: That's right, and there are a lot of ways that
Speaker 1: you can go about it. I would imagine that, Um,
Speaker 1: you me probably did it on like a coffee table
Speaker 1: or something. Maybe, oh nobody should do it in her lap? Okay,
Speaker 1: well then you can do it in the air. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that is uh. When you're at that point,
Speaker 1: then you're pretty skilled as an origami artist. If you
Speaker 1: are just using your hands and you're not putting it
Speaker 1: on anything hard, then that that's pretty skilled. Um. But
Speaker 1: I would say a beginner should probably use a desk
Speaker 1: or something with a little help, maybe a clipboard if
Speaker 1: you want to do it in your lap. Sometimes people
Speaker 1: will use paper clips to help really get a nice
Speaker 1: fine crease in there. Yeah, I got the impression. That
Speaker 1: that's allowed. Yeah, I mean anything's allowed. Come on. I mean,
Speaker 1: anytime you're talking about something that Japanese people do, they're
Speaker 1: not gonna go in there and start screaming at you. Right.
Speaker 1: If you're like to do it right, you may be
Speaker 1: at risk of dishonoring your ancestors, but nobody's going to
Speaker 1: judge you personally for it. Yeah, but I would imagine
Speaker 1: a paper clip two might help if you don't have
Speaker 1: fingernail Also, if you're a fingernail biter and you just
Speaker 1: have just stubby nubs like I used to, then you
Speaker 1: should you should maybe get a little paper clip out
Speaker 1: that might help you along. I've also seen um like
Speaker 1: a wooden a letter opener kind of thing. People. I've
Speaker 1: seen people use that to make a really you know,
Speaker 1: tight crease, or to poke a fold into another fold,
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. What nothing, did I accidentally get
Speaker 1: sexy or something a couple of times? That's all right though, poke?
Speaker 1: Oh you guys, Well, this is keep moving along, so
Speaker 1: nothing to see here. We should talk to you about
Speaker 1: a few of the different categories of origami. There are
Speaker 1: many many categories that you can focus on if you
Speaker 1: want to kind of drill down into a specific um discipline.
Speaker 1: One is called modular or a gamy, and that is
Speaker 1: when you have U And I would encourage people obviously
Speaker 1: not if you're driving, but to kind of look up
Speaker 1: pictures and follow along with a lot of these because
Speaker 1: it really d lives at home and it's also beautiful
Speaker 1: to look at. But modular is when you use um
Speaker 1: different sheets of paper, but you're generally kind of making
Speaker 1: the same shape and then bringing those uh together to
Speaker 1: form some larger piece from those same shapes. Very beautiful,
Speaker 1: it really is. And with modular chuck, that's one of
Speaker 1: the few types of um of paper folding or a
Speaker 1: gamy that uses more than one sheet. Well, it's mind
Speaker 1: blowing about origamies when you're looking at just about any
Speaker 1: type aside for modular, despite what it looks like, it's
Speaker 1: probably just one sheet of paper. Yeah, it's just amazing.
Speaker 1: Some of the stuff that people are making is just
Speaker 1: ridiculously amazing. You've got action orgamy, which are kind of
Speaker 1: fun because these little guys can move sometimes obviously it's
Speaker 1: gonna take human manipulation. They don't just move on their own,
Speaker 1: like you can't make a wind up to way or
Speaker 1: anything like that. But you can flap a bird wings
Speaker 1: sometimes a bird's wing, or you might be able to
Speaker 1: make a frog that jumps. Yeah, or remember the origami
Speaker 1: fortune teller, that little folded thing you could learn who
Speaker 1: you're gonna marry or that kind of thing. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: what what was that called the oregonmy fortune Teller? From
Speaker 1: what I saw, I mean, we didn't call it that
Speaker 1: in elementary school, and I could not find it. I
Speaker 1: could not find the name of it. I know what
Speaker 1: you're talking. What was it? Yeah? Those were always fun.
Speaker 1: There's something called mash Mansion Apartment scheck House, but I
Speaker 1: don't think that involves paper or a gami. But it's
Speaker 1: a similar game. Yeah that. Janet Varney plays that with
Speaker 1: her guests at the end of her j V Club episodes.
Speaker 1: The match game sure a lot of fun. So that's
Speaker 1: different from the Origami fortune Teller. Ye, has nothing to
Speaker 1: do with paper. Yeah, you always end up married to
Speaker 1: Rob Low somehow if you're lucky. Well, that's called the
Speaker 1: fantasy game. Um, let's see what else can you do
Speaker 1: with origami? Chuck, people make origami out of dollar bills. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I see those. I used to get those occasionally when
Speaker 1: you if you've ever you work at a cash job,
Speaker 1: like I worked at a convenient story, You're gonna get
Speaker 1: some wise acre that pays for cigarettes with a couple
Speaker 1: of cranes. Some wise acre. People make them out of
Speaker 1: sticky notes like post it notes is what most people
Speaker 1: call them. From what I saw, it basically just ends
Speaker 1: up being Pikachu every time. Oh yeah, because it's yellow
Speaker 1: and small. So yeah, jewelry if you've you can make
Speaker 1: jewelry or a gamy. I think you can certainly buy
Speaker 1: that kind of thing on Etsy. And then one of
Speaker 1: the other styles that you see um or schools is tessellations.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a if it's a school
Speaker 1: in and of itself, but it's kind of like modular
Speaker 1: or a gami or it yields like kind of repeating
Speaker 1: three D patterns, but it's typically made from just one
Speaker 1: sheet folded in just not so intricate ways. UM. I
Speaker 1: saw in a three D hydrangea pattern UM on this
Speaker 1: little sheet that the person in the pictures holding it
Speaker 1: covers about the top half of their hand, but there's
Speaker 1: I think at least a dozen little hydranges folded into
Speaker 1: it and repeating room. It's just and then when you
Speaker 1: step back and you think that is one sheet of
Speaker 1: paper somebody figured out how to fold perfectly. Because there's
Speaker 1: one thing that they don't tell you about orgami that
Speaker 1: you figure out pretty quickly on your own. If you
Speaker 1: don't make the right folds in the right order, you
Speaker 1: just you just screwed up. Like it's never gonna look
Speaker 1: quite right. Yeah, it's hard to undo a good crease.
Speaker 1: I think that's where scissors come in sometimes. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: know what I didn't do for this, which I usually do,
Speaker 1: I'm surprised. I'll do it later. Is watch a good
Speaker 1: YouTube of someone doing something pretty complex. Check out paper Kawaii.
Speaker 1: She's she's good and it's also easy to follow too.
Speaker 1: Does she get super detailed and stuff or is it
Speaker 1: a little more basic both, it's it's basically everything you want.
Speaker 1: And then there's also like a lot of instructionals well,
Speaker 1: like she teaches to base shapes. I don't think she
Speaker 1: gets into like modular but actually it's not true. She
Speaker 1: does have modular stuff on there. She does it all
Speaker 1: basically um, but she's also got a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: where like if you want to make a little gift
Speaker 1: box to put your gift in she's got instructionals on
Speaker 1: how to do that, so practical stuff as well. So
Speaker 1: you can put Oorgamy in an origami box as a gift,
Speaker 1: you could. That's pretty mind blowing. It's amazing. What's neat though,
Speaker 1: is all of her videos are set to um led Zeppelin,
Speaker 1: so that adds like an extra layer? Does it? Is
Speaker 1: it really? Okay? Man? I was like, that'd be amazing,
Speaker 1: especially if it was just really out of whack with
Speaker 1: what she was making, it would be great. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: was just thinking, maybe, uh, well, I can't think of
Speaker 1: it now. Come from the Land of the Ice and snow.
Speaker 1: What's immigrant immigrant song do? Yeah? But none of the
Speaker 1: folding is keeping up with it. The songs has to
Speaker 1: start over, over and over. Of course, if you're a
Speaker 1: fan of Blade Runner, you remember that has a nice
Speaker 1: um origami motif reoccurring motif in there with Edward James
Speaker 1: almost as character. I have no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: You've seen Blade Runner, yeah, and I know the character,
Speaker 1: but what is it? Oh? Does he keep making origami stuff?
Speaker 1: He leaves it behind, right, okay? And uh it plays
Speaker 1: a key role sort of at the end of the movie.
Speaker 1: I don't remember that. Yeah, it's good, a great movie though.
Speaker 1: Did you see the second one? Uh? Well, I've seen
Speaker 1: all the versions of the first one, and of course
Speaker 1: he has all the second one. I thought the second
Speaker 1: one was really great. Yeah, it was very good. I
Speaker 1: loved it. And there's nothing that Ryan Goslin can't do.
Speaker 1: I know, right. I saw him in a hotel lobby
Speaker 1: once and I just wanted to kiss his handsome face.
Speaker 1: Did you know I should have? Do you remember when
Speaker 1: we went to upfronts once when we had our show
Speaker 1: on Science Channel. We looked over and there's Fred Armison
Speaker 1: and we waved like like we were peers any way back,
Speaker 1: like I don't know who you are, but good to
Speaker 1: see you for the first time ever. The other funny
Speaker 1: thing I don't know if you remember of this on
Speaker 1: that trip was uh and for people that know, the
Speaker 1: upfronts is where you if you have a TV show
Speaker 1: or something coming out the next year or quarter is
Speaker 1: it yearly you gather at a place and all the
Speaker 1: presses there and you kind of just tell everyone what
Speaker 1: you're doing and they hopefully write about it. But we
Speaker 1: saw Michael Douglas and Matt Damon passed us walking down
Speaker 1: the sidewalk and I was like, what are those guys
Speaker 1: doing together? And like, little did I know it was coming. Man,
Speaker 1: that was such a good movie. It was awesome. I'd
Speaker 1: like to see that again soon. Actually it's on if
Speaker 1: you get a free trial the HBO on Amazon Prime.
Speaker 1: I think it's on there right now. Man, I gotta
Speaker 1: see that. Such a good movie. Um, let's see Technical Oregony.
Speaker 1: I think is where we left off. Well, yeah, we
Speaker 1: because we had already talked about pure Land, right yeah,
Speaker 1: and this technical Oregonmy from what I could gather, is
Speaker 1: this just the worksheets that you get sort of the
Speaker 1: how to? Or is yourn actual style. It's it's kind
Speaker 1: of both. So I think that that's thing about the
Speaker 1: style is that the work she's the diagrams are not
Speaker 1: step by step. It is a picture of the paper
Speaker 1: with every fold in it. But it's like if you
Speaker 1: went through the whole process of making this incredibly detailed,
Speaker 1: very technically precise or a gami shape, and then unfolded
Speaker 1: it but left all the creases in there and then
Speaker 1: took a picture of that. That's what the diagram is.
Speaker 1: But that doesn't say which one to do first. Which
Speaker 1: which I find very unnerving because that means that there
Speaker 1: are people out there who can look at that and
Speaker 1: tell how to do it. It's just by looking at that.
Speaker 1: And so in that UM that documentary Between the Folds,
Speaker 1: this is made back in two thousand and eight, I think,
Speaker 1: but they really kind of documented this tension between this
Speaker 1: push toward more and more technical or a gami and
Speaker 1: paper folding that's just pushing the limits and the boundaries
Speaker 1: of like what can you possibly do? UM that it
Speaker 1: started to use like CAD and other computer programs to
Speaker 1: plot out, you know, what what folds you needed to
Speaker 1: make in what order to make these really technical ones.
Speaker 1: And then on the other side of that, pulling the
Speaker 1: other direction, or the artists who were just like I
Speaker 1: just listened to like my hands and my imagination and
Speaker 1: you know, come up with these new folds and um
Speaker 1: there's this one French artist who makes masks and kind
Speaker 1: of almost Tolkien esque from like a seventies illustrated version
Speaker 1: of like Lord of the Rings maybe, um, like like
Speaker 1: witches and wizards and things like that, and it's very
Speaker 1: like free form and flowing and they're like, you know,
Speaker 1: when you get too technical, you lose like the emotion,
Speaker 1: you lose the art side of it. And then this
Speaker 1: one guy made the case. His name is Long. I
Speaker 1: can't remember his first name, but he's just an amazing
Speaker 1: technical guy. And he said, you know, no, these technical
Speaker 1: people are figuring this out. They're making studies of stuff
Speaker 1: that you could eventually incorporate into larger art. So it's
Speaker 1: good that it's good to have both. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: think there's a wrong way. I'm pretty sure his name
Speaker 1: is David Long. Check him out. He's just up to
Speaker 1: some amazing stuff. All right, Well, let's take another break
Speaker 1: and we're gonna come back and finish up with a
Speaker 1: little bit on the kind of paper you might want
Speaker 1: to get if you want to try this out right
Speaker 1: for this, Hey, Chuck, I looked and we did not
Speaker 1: ever do an episode on paper, unless we named it
Speaker 1: in a smart alec way too. Uh, what you're writing
Speaker 1: on We did toilet paper? Do you want sure? And
Speaker 1: I think that'd be interestingly. We did one on grass.
Speaker 1: We can do one on paper. Oh absolutely. Uh. And paper,
Speaker 1: like we said, is what you want to buy if
Speaker 1: you want to start practicing origami and kami or coit
Speaker 1: paper is if you if you're not just you know,
Speaker 1: if you want to step it up from just copy
Speaker 1: paper or something like that, and you go to an
Speaker 1: art supply store, this is a good place to start.
Speaker 1: It is designed for origami and paper folding. It is
Speaker 1: very crisp, very thin, holds its shape really well, very
Speaker 1: easy to fold, and it stays pretty it's pretty robust,
Speaker 1: Like after you fold it, it doesn't you know, it
Speaker 1: stays pretty strong. Yeah. Um, that's that's like if you
Speaker 1: go to a stationary store and you look forward gami paper,
Speaker 1: that's probably what you're gonna get, is that comi paper. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I might have a nice pattern on it. Uh, usually square,
Speaker 1: and you can get it in different sizes from like
Speaker 1: sticky note size to the Granddaddy's size. Yeah. Um, there's
Speaker 1: there's Uh. There's also another kind of paper called washy
Speaker 1: um that is this um. It's like thicker, obviously handmade.
Speaker 1: It might still have some of the the grains from
Speaker 1: the pulp still mashed into it. Um, and it is
Speaker 1: much harder to fold and keep like a tight crease in.
Speaker 1: But it's much better for using when you're when you're
Speaker 1: doing like wet folding technique, which is where you don't
Speaker 1: know if we ever said you damp in the paper.
Speaker 1: You don't get it wet, but you damp in it
Speaker 1: so that it it folds more than creases, and then
Speaker 1: it'll hold that shape as it dries to Yeah. And
Speaker 1: it said in the article, which by the way, came
Speaker 1: from house stuff works dot com or world website, um,
Speaker 1: that it's very costly. And I looked it up and
Speaker 1: I saw some and and and it seems to me
Speaker 1: like you can't like if you want washy, it's coming
Speaker 1: from Japan. I saw some stuff on Amazon that they
Speaker 1: call washy paper, but it is not washy, but it
Speaker 1: it's more witchy than washy, alright dad, um. And it
Speaker 1: was fifty bucks for a role that was sixty inches
Speaker 1: by thirty two feet though, which is okay. Um, Like
Speaker 1: fifty bucks is a lot of money for paper, but
Speaker 1: thirty two ft it's nothing. You know, that's a lot
Speaker 1: of paper. Sure, yeah, that's nothing. That's a pretty good
Speaker 1: price on washy. That's what I thought. You're just turning
Speaker 1: into granddad. Yeah, for my glasses. And I said that
Speaker 1: what about the foil. That's another thing that I thought
Speaker 1: was cami, But um, there there are two different things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it's so often called Japanese foil. It's just paper
Speaker 1: with a foil backing on one side, and the foil
Speaker 1: comes in different colors, so it can really make your
Speaker 1: origami paper cream pop. Yeah, and you can bake cookies
Speaker 1: on it when you're done. And you said something earlier
Speaker 1: about how um kami might have like a pattern on
Speaker 1: one side, or one color on one side one color
Speaker 1: on another side. Um, that actually fools a lot of
Speaker 1: people into thinking that they're looking at an origami model
Speaker 1: that's made from more than one type of paper, but
Speaker 1: it's actually just two sided paper that's just still one sheet.
Speaker 1: Like just just remember this when you're inevitably going and
Speaker 1: looking at pictures of origami today. Uh, most of that
Speaker 1: is just one big or small sheet of paper. Uh.
Speaker 1: And the other cool thing here at the end, which
Speaker 1: I think we should mention, and this is very very neat,
Speaker 1: is it is art and it is a hobby and
Speaker 1: it is in like, but it has practical applications in
Speaker 1: the world at large. Um Like, when you think about
Speaker 1: manufacturing things that need to be folded into a small space,
Speaker 1: where better to look than an origami master to say, like, hey,
Speaker 1: how would you fold this air bag into this thing
Speaker 1: or this solar array? Like, how can we make this
Speaker 1: large thing small? Even if only for packaging? And Yoshi's
Speaker 1: I was like, I've died, leave me alone. I've given up.
Speaker 1: Didn't I tell you I hated money? Right? But what
Speaker 1: about ten tho dollars? Is that the magic number for him?
Speaker 1: I guess so everybody's got a price, even you shoes out.
Speaker 1: Uh and Oregony is great for the classroom for younger
Speaker 1: kids to help teach geometry and stuff like that, really
Speaker 1: really good stuff. Um. I got one more sweet Yumi
Speaker 1: story um with Origami. Her her dad is in the hospital,
Speaker 1: has been for a while, and he was an ICEU
Speaker 1: for a little while, and thanks to COVID, we couldn't visit,
Speaker 1: and we couldn't even send flowers like they were super
Speaker 1: on lockdown trying to keep everything out. So um, she
Speaker 1: folded some paper flowers and sent them to him, and
Speaker 1: he had him on his bedside, at his bedside with him,
Speaker 1: which he said he credits for helping him get well.
Speaker 1: And that's amazing and they allowed that. Huh they did
Speaker 1: no flowers, but paper flowers is okay. Interesting folded by
Speaker 1: human hands exactly, very clean human hands. I can assure
Speaker 1: you sure. I mean, I'm glad they allowed it. That's great. So,
Speaker 1: by the way, Bob, we're wishing you here stuff you
Speaker 1: should know, a good and healthy recovery, and we'll see
Speaker 1: you home soon. Thanks Chuck. If you guys want to
Speaker 1: know more about origami, you can start looking it up.
Speaker 1: Get yourself some paper. That's another thing we said that
Speaker 1: I think we should point out you don't have to
Speaker 1: have kami or washy or foil or anything like that.
Speaker 1: You can just you can use copy paper to start
Speaker 1: if you want whatever is handy. Um, just go ahead
Speaker 1: and have some fun with it. That's the point. Have
Speaker 1: some fun. Uh. And since I said have some fun,
Speaker 1: it's time for listener mail. I'm gonna call this sexy sneeze.
Speaker 1: Remember when we talked a little bit at the end
Speaker 1: of the Sneezing episode about sneezes being linked to orgasms
Speaker 1: and and sexual pleasure, Yeah, and arousal. Yes, Well we
Speaker 1: heard from Darcy about that. She said, Hey, guys, have
Speaker 1: an avid listener, been listening to all of your episodes,
Speaker 1: and this is the first time I've ever thought I
Speaker 1: really should send them an email. About this. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to keep it family friendly. But in your discussion, uh,
Speaker 1: during sneezing was sneezing when becoming sexually aroused. In my case,
Speaker 1: my no is becomes very running, and I often do
Speaker 1: the my nose is running sniff thing during amorous activities.
Speaker 1: I don't always end up sneezing, but I can tell
Speaker 1: you that there's a direct link in my body from
Speaker 1: my nose to other areas. And she said the uncensored
Speaker 1: version is I know it's been a good time when
Speaker 1: my nose starts running. Anyway, I just wanted to share
Speaker 1: my experience. Keep on finding stuff to talk about and
Speaker 1: now keep listening. And that is from Darcy. And she
Speaker 1: did say I could read this and just use her
Speaker 1: first name. Thanks a lot, Darcy. That's very brave of you.
Speaker 1: You're not even in an internet chat room and you're admitted.
Speaker 1: And that's right way to get interesting stuff. It really is.
Speaker 1: If you want to be like Darcy and right in
Speaker 1: something interesting about yourself, we want to hear it. You
Speaker 1: can send it off to Stuff podcast at iHeart radio
Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of
Speaker 1: iHeart Radios. How Stuff Works For more podcasts for my
Speaker 1: heart Radio because at the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts
Speaker 1: are wherever you listen to your favorite ships.