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Speaker 1: Hey, what up. Welcome in. I'm Doug Godly and this

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Speaker 1: is all ball. Um. This week's guest is Frank Martin. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you watch this entire thing one, you're gonna you're

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Speaker 1: gonna love the story of when he got offered the

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Speaker 1: Kansas State job. But it's I didn't know it. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure he's told it. It's pretty cool. Um. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: Frank and I talked for about an hour and he

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Speaker 1: agreed to do a second part. We'll probably do it

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Speaker 1: today or tomorrow. And I'm doing much right now, and

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Speaker 1: we'll get into kind of more of the kind of

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Speaker 1: present day what happened and went right and then we

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Speaker 1: went wrong Kansas State to South Carolina to the final

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Speaker 1: four to where we are now, and then I had

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Speaker 1: some other kind of quirky stuff to ask Frank. It's

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Speaker 1: pretty amazing. He's an amazing, amazing guy. Um. So we'll

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Speaker 1: get to Frank Martin in just a couple of moments. First,

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Speaker 1: let me kind of quickly recap for you the NBA Draft. Now, Yah,

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Speaker 1: I think what's fascinating is the LaMelo ball deal. We

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Speaker 1: can talk about other guys, but obviously he's a huge name.

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Speaker 1: I guess The good thing is if you look at it,

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Speaker 1: like his dad had two top three picks that our sons.

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Speaker 1: That's incredible. And the first time I saw LaMelo ball play,

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Speaker 1: I think he was in seventh grade maybe maybe it's

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Speaker 1: probably seven, maybe eight, And I'll never forget. I was

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Speaker 1: coaching when my dad's teams at the American Sports Center,

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Speaker 1: which isn't in a him and Uh. I got done

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Speaker 1: coaching and I went over and Miles Simon grabbed me.

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Speaker 1: He is now to sitting with the Lakers, and Miles like,

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Speaker 1: have you seen the ball brothers play? I was like, no,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know who that is. Like, let's go

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Speaker 1: watch whatever the important Philip people. And I love the

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Speaker 1: way that a Lonzo found me. Well, love the way

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Speaker 1: that LaMelo found people. And LaMelo was playing up, playing

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Speaker 1: against high school kids and he was tiny with big

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Speaker 1: floppy hair, right, And it's always fascinating me on how

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Speaker 1: guys who play up the skill that they have. And

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Speaker 1: I know this from me playing up when I was

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Speaker 1: in fourth grade. I play with my brother's eighth grade team,

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Speaker 1: and I think what what that does is it does

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Speaker 1: make you you have to be more of a pastor

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Speaker 1: because you can't score on people. The downside to that

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Speaker 1: is that, especially nowadays in the NBA, you've got to

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Speaker 1: be a bit of an alpha score. Do I want

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Speaker 1: people that set people up? Yeah, but I need you

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Speaker 1: to take over games and then when help comes, you

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Speaker 1: kick off. James Harden Lebron James Like Lebron James, he doesn't.

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Speaker 1: He's not a score per se, but he and his

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Speaker 1: career is the all time living NBA score. So, um,

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Speaker 1: let's first take Lonzo and why it hasn't worked. First,

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Speaker 1: if we're honest, LeVar didn't train him right, you know, yes,

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Speaker 1: he trained him to be able to play in transition

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Speaker 1: and encourage him to pass, and he's got great passing

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Speaker 1: vision and Alonzo has bought into when when they played

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Speaker 1: growing up, it was all about pressing and getting steels

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Speaker 1: and he really didn't refine learn to play defense until

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Speaker 1: the NBA. Um. But Alonzo is a very good defender

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Speaker 1: and wants to be a great defender. He's also a

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Speaker 1: very good rebounder for a guard. But what he's never

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Speaker 1: done is had the willingness or ability to take over

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Speaker 1: a game offensively. Obviously, his jump shot has held him back,

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Speaker 1: but so this he's not a good finisher. He's just

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Speaker 1: not uh and then you factor in some bad luck injuries. Now,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if the first injury when he was

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Speaker 1: in the NBA. Some people believe it's because he wore

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Speaker 1: those crumby Big Bla brand shoes. But whatever it was,

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Speaker 1: he was hurt both his first his first offseason, he

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Speaker 1: got drafted by the Lakers. In the next offseason. That's

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Speaker 1: when you make your biggest jump is you learn what

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Speaker 1: to do, what not to do, how to work in

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Speaker 1: your game, how to change her has change his body,

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Speaker 1: but he's never been able to truly take those steps

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Speaker 1: in the office. And then you look at the bubble

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Speaker 1: this year and he was awful, which leads me to

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Speaker 1: believe that during quarantine he was doing the work. But

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Speaker 1: that's the only Jamal will Jamal Murray can't become go

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Speaker 1: from a very good player to an elite level player

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Speaker 1: after quarantine if not for putting in a ton of

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Speaker 1: work during quarantine, as opposed to Alonzo Ball, who went

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Speaker 1: from being a starter to a guy who now New

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Speaker 1: Orleans went and drafted a point guard and traded for

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Speaker 1: a point guard. If you think they think that Alonzo

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Speaker 1: Balls future, why they they actually traded for two point guards.

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Speaker 1: I don't know George Hill stays there tires or buy

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Speaker 1: him out or whatever. But you don't bring in three

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Speaker 1: point guards unless if you think that you got your

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Speaker 1: star of the future. Right, So his career kind of

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Speaker 1: hangs in the balance there with the GENA didn't draft him,

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Speaker 1: a coach that didn't draft him as well. But Alonzo

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Speaker 1: did not to play pick and roll until after being

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Speaker 1: the year NBA a couple of years. Not still not

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Speaker 1: a very good finisher, not a confident shooter, and now

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Speaker 1: he has has made his body a pretty good body,

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Speaker 1: but he kept breaking down. So now let's go to LaMelo.

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Speaker 1: LaMelo is bigger and as good or a better passer,

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Speaker 1: seems to have a great creative finishing knack. Part of

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Speaker 1: it is he's very big now. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: his body feels out if he can become the explosive

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Speaker 1: athlete that Alonso has become stands the reason probably right,

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Speaker 1: he's only eighteen right now, it's all about length, and

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Speaker 1: he's wiry, and he adds he's not gonna be Slobo

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Speaker 1: his his whole career. But Alonzo has always tried to

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Speaker 1: play defense. LaMelo doesn't play in the defense, doesn't like contact.

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Speaker 1: And if you want to say that a Lonzo's shot

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Speaker 1: was broke, like LaMelo's shot looks very similar and the

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Speaker 1: numbers are terrible. Even in Australia. We saw highlights and

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Speaker 1: snippets and he does some amazing things with the basketball,

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Speaker 1: but herom three. UM, I expect that to improve. I

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Speaker 1: do think that he's big, his positional size, even more

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Speaker 1: so than Alonzo. And if he's not hurt in the

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Speaker 1: off season, and if he's willing to put in the

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Speaker 1: work that Alonso I don't think put in the work,

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Speaker 1: I think you'd be really good. But I don't know

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Speaker 1: for a fact. I don't know for a fact that

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Speaker 1: it absolutely works out. It's a risky pick. I like

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Speaker 1: that it's out of a big market and that it's

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Speaker 1: going to be about kind of buying in. I don't

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Speaker 1: love to fit there because I think Devonte Graham is

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Speaker 1: now DeVonta Graham truthfully is a perfect six man and

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Speaker 1: because of his lack of size, he can play with

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Speaker 1: Zoe and he's not a creative point guard. He's a

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Speaker 1: he's a dynamic scoring guard. UM. I think that's where

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Speaker 1: Charlotte should go. Right, Whereas Terry Rogier is a bench player.

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Speaker 1: I don't care what his salary tells you. When he

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Speaker 1: was at his best in Boston's when he came off

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Speaker 1: the bench, there's a reason they didn't think they could

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Speaker 1: elevate him to a start. There's a limit there doesn't

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Speaker 1: have a great roster around him. I question, is all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden he's gonna decide to defend all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden. You cannot teach toughness. You can change the

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Speaker 1: guy's body, you can change a guy shot. He can't

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Speaker 1: teach a guy toughness. It's really hard to get a

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Speaker 1: guy to have a great work ethic. I think he

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Speaker 1: has good work ethic. I think that's why he has

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Speaker 1: so much skill in what he's done. But I don't

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Speaker 1: think he has great work ethic. I don't think he

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Speaker 1: has great toughness. So I wonder what that looks like. Um.

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Speaker 1: Maybe my favorite pick of the draft is Nicomanion going

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Speaker 1: to the Warriors. One of the things about Steph Curry

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Speaker 1: is we've been searching for a Steph Curry backup since

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Speaker 1: what Landro Barbosa aged and then eventually went away. One

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Speaker 1: of the reasons there's such a massive drop off when

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Speaker 1: Steph has come off the court with the Warriors. Was

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Speaker 1: he had like Quinn Cook as his backup. Quinn's a

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Speaker 1: g leaguer who made the NBA obviously one NBA title

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Speaker 1: this year with the Lakers, but they just, uh, they

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Speaker 1: they just didn't re sign him. And so this is

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Speaker 1: not to take a shot at Quinn Cook, but he's

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Speaker 1: a third or fourth point guard on the team. They

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Speaker 1: didn't have a viable not you don't. You're not gonna

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Speaker 1: get a one beat of Steph. But a guy who

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Speaker 1: could go could eventually be a starter. That's what Nicomnion is.

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Speaker 1: Does he need to make better desistance, sure, because he

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Speaker 1: need to shoot the ball better. Sure, Um I don't.

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Speaker 1: He's not obviously not the Pastor's steff and you're not

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Speaker 1: going to teach that. But I like he's got some

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Speaker 1: juice to him. And while love Peyton Pritchard, I think

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Speaker 1: he's tough. I don't know, first round seems a little high.

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Speaker 1: I love Nico Mannion and um, I think he's that's

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Speaker 1: a terrific fit for him because if you look at

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Speaker 1: the Warriors roster, now, how many ball handlers do they

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Speaker 1: actually have? They used to have five guys. Remember, um,

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Speaker 1: Kevin Ryant was like a point forward. Draymond Green is

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Speaker 1: still there like a point forward. The worst dribbler ball handler,

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Speaker 1: the guy who dribbled the least was Clay Thompson, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: But you you don't have you don't have uh so

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Speaker 1: many guys that they had that could handle the basketball.

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Speaker 1: And you're gonna need more guards because Steph while he's

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Speaker 1: a technically a point and brings it up, he's also

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Speaker 1: technically a two guard. Really and need somebody else. And

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Speaker 1: you can play those two together. I believe you can

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Speaker 1: play those two together. If Nico can learn to be

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Speaker 1: a very good defense you gotta be a really good

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Speaker 1: defense player guy, and he's tough. So I I like

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Speaker 1: that draft pick. I like what the Timberwolves did, believe

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Speaker 1: or not. I thought Anthony Edwards was the right pick

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Speaker 1: Wiseman they couldn't use another big, and I didn't like

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Speaker 1: LaMelo with D'Angelo Russell obviously, I have the questions that

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Speaker 1: everybody has about a guy who says he doesn't love basketball,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not sure he'll become a great shooter. But

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Speaker 1: he's an explosive athlete with a big, strong football body. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, does Anthony Edwards become an All Star? Maybe not?

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Speaker 1: Has become a damn good eight and twent game scorer

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Speaker 1: probably and maybe on But it depends upon how hard

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Speaker 1: he wants to work. And also this is a challenge

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Speaker 1: to to uh to D'Angelo Russell, a guy who was

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Speaker 1: a hangout guy with the Lakers, got a terrible reputation

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Speaker 1: terms of his work ethic and buying off the court.

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Speaker 1: Does he buy it now? I hope he does because

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Speaker 1: now he's a mac contract guy and he's got to

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Speaker 1: make it work because people think Anthony Towns wants to

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Speaker 1: go to the Knicks, so otherwise free agency wise, you know, Look,

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Speaker 1: here's what we'll do. We'll record one next week when

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Speaker 1: some of the dust settles. We'll see if Gordon Hayward

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Speaker 1: gets to the Pacers. We'll see if it's a signing

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Speaker 1: trade or if it's signed right away. We'll see what

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Speaker 1: happens with the Lakers right now. I really like what

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Speaker 1: they've done. Dennis Shrewder. That guy can score off the

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Speaker 1: dribble like I can score off the catch. Pretty tough minded. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't great as an alpha at a young age

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta, but found a good role last year Nokolo City.

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Speaker 1: He's a this would be a good role for him.

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Speaker 1: And I also, I don't believe for one second that

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Speaker 1: Anthony Davis is going to sign anywhere else. This feels

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Speaker 1: like clutched sports trying to get the Lakers to sign

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Speaker 1: more clutch guys. That's what it is. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it works. It does feel like Rob Polinka has

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Speaker 1: got pretty good control and understanding of the situation. You

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Speaker 1: may have to sign one guy or two guys to pacify,

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Speaker 1: to pacify everybody, but Anthony davison't leaving a championship team

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Speaker 1: with a chance to win multiple championships with Lebron, especially now.

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Speaker 1: The West is not as good as we thought it

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Speaker 1: would be like Portland's. They're not losing to Portland. Houston

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Speaker 1: seems to be done. I love Denver, but there's a

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Speaker 1: ceiling there. Utah same thing. It's the Clippers and the

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Speaker 1: Lakers and who else Whereas the East, the Nets are real,

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Speaker 1: the Bucks are real, seventies sixers real. Although Danny Green

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Speaker 1: can't be a starter, can't move unless he finds a

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Speaker 1: fountain of youth. Didn't move well, missed a lot of shots,

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Speaker 1: a lot of open shots this year. And as much

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Speaker 1: as everybody loves Seth Curry making the NBA, he's a

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Speaker 1: great shooter. He's got to come off the bench because

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Speaker 1: he can't guard, and he's just he's not a starting cowper.

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Speaker 1: A very good bench shooter Karver. So he is awesome,

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Speaker 1: but they still need some more pieces to go along

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Speaker 1: with Tobias Harrison the Big two. All right, let's let's

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Speaker 1: get to my my Frank Martin interview. Frank Martin, I've

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Speaker 1: known him for a long time. UM, we'll get to

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Speaker 1: that story at some point in either this interview or

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Speaker 1: the next interview. He's the head coach to South Carolina.

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Speaker 1: A couple years ago they went to a final four.

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Speaker 1: He is a a the son of Cuban dissidence, and

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Speaker 1: he has an amazing personal story. And this is part

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Speaker 1: of two parts with Frank Martin. Enjoy it well, coach. First,

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Speaker 1: how are you like? How's how's your health? How's your team?

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Speaker 1: This is a crazy set of circumstances. How are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing great, Doug. You know it's uh like everyone else,

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Speaker 1: it was an interesting spring in summer. Um and uh,

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Speaker 1: getting older everything hurts. Um. But but it's uh. We've

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Speaker 1: been knock on wood, uh, going at it here for

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Speaker 1: really hard for the last five weeks. And uh, we've

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Speaker 1: been responsible and safe up to this point from from COVID.

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Speaker 1: So we just got to keep our fingers crossed and

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Speaker 1: and and take it day by day and hope we can, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, get through a season. And uh, but but

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Speaker 1: I'm doing great, man. My family is healthy. Uh. Uh

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Speaker 1: you know, board, I'm just in the gym and in

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Speaker 1: my house nowhere else. But you know, other than that,

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Speaker 1: it's okay, okay. So in terms of the gym, we

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Speaker 1: aren't un quarantined, did you you know? I talked to

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Speaker 1: Bill self and he actually cleaned the garage three times,

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Speaker 1: and he said, I might have done it too well.

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Speaker 1: Is there a is there a hobby or anything you

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Speaker 1: picked up, especially when you didn't have practice that you

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Speaker 1: hadn't done previously. Uh. I pretty much played golf more

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Speaker 1: than at any time in my life. Um uh in

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Speaker 1: the month of April and uh and then early May

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Speaker 1: head I was getting ready for knee replacement and that's

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Speaker 1: when I tested positive for COVID. Uh. And you know,

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Speaker 1: who the heck knows if I was positive or not.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's it's unbelievable. You just don't know. I

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Speaker 1: think I was because I felt kind of weird and

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you like my new hair do.

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Speaker 1: But I got hit by alapis are really bad so

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Speaker 1: which they say it's an after effect of COVID, whether

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Speaker 1: it's stress or the disease itself. Um so I just

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Speaker 1: about two weeks ago, I just finally, rather than hide it,

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Speaker 1: I cut it off. And uh and then I did

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Speaker 1: have my knee replacement. But I did. I worked at

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Speaker 1: the house a little bit. I'm not very good at

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Speaker 1: things at the house. I work hard of being a husband,

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Speaker 1: I work hard of being a dad, but I absolutely

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Speaker 1: stink at anything that deals with uh being a handyman

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Speaker 1: or fixing things around the house. So I tried. So

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Speaker 1: when you say I played more golf than I've ever played,

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Speaker 1: did you grew up playing golf? Who me? Yeah? No,

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Speaker 1: I mean I played some. Uh My I started hitting

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Speaker 1: balls when I was like a junior in high school

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Speaker 1: just because there's a arrange fairly close to the house

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Speaker 1: and my the a d at my high school used

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Speaker 1: to play, so he take the with him. But but

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Speaker 1: I never really got into golf until my twenties, and

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Speaker 1: then when I got into college basketball stopped. I barely played.

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Speaker 1: I played something in Kansas towards the end of my

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Speaker 1: time there, and then when I got here, I stopped

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Speaker 1: playing again. I just trying to rebuild this program. I

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Speaker 1: had an old time for golf, and I got young children,

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Speaker 1: but you know, we're in COVID and that was about

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Speaker 1: the only thing that we can do in the walk

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Speaker 1: down is school play golf, and so I did that

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Speaker 1: a lot. You mentioned you mentioned your kids and your family. Um,

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Speaker 1: it was and that can be too much of that,

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Speaker 1: but especially for college basketball and a guy like yourself,

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Speaker 1: a grinder, you just spend a lot of time on

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Speaker 1: the road recruiting, and you know, and and with your

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Speaker 1: with your coaches in your office. It had on some

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Speaker 1: level be refreshing to be able to be at home

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Speaker 1: and there's no distractions like we had. We had family

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Speaker 1: dinners that we had never had, and I don't have

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Speaker 1: nearly the schedule that you have. I'd have to imagine

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Speaker 1: that was pretty rewarding, but also pretty different from the

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Speaker 1: lifestyle you've led since you got into college hoops. Well,

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Speaker 1: said Doug, it's uh that was the one thing. I

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Speaker 1: did a show, um with your peers on FS one

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Speaker 1: Marcellus Wiley and at the time Jason Whitelock and and

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Speaker 1: they kind of asked me a similar question, and I

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Speaker 1: told him, I said, you know, I worked really hard

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Speaker 1: trying to be a father, uh and being really involved

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Speaker 1: in my children's life and and helping them and being

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Speaker 1: there for him. And when COVID hit, I actually got

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Speaker 1: to separate from work and life and just worry about them.

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Speaker 1: And I realized that as hard as I tried, I

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Speaker 1: really didn't know my kids real good. I they knew me,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't know them. And and uh So from

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Speaker 1: that standpoint, it was unbelievable helpful, unbelievably helpful, um to

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Speaker 1: really get to know my kids, which which after the fact,

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Speaker 1: I felt real guilty about. So now that we're I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say we're back to normal, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm coaching again, I'm practice, I'm getting ready to start traveling.

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Speaker 1: I have a better understanding what they like, don't like,

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Speaker 1: how they do things. And it's all because of what

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Speaker 1: you said. We we got the family dinners together, Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, we we spent quality time talking. We're all

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Speaker 1: in the house. Uh, so it was pretty powerful. So

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Speaker 1: you grew up, Um, you grew up in in Miami.

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Speaker 1: You mean, paint the picture of what your childhood was like. Uh,

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Speaker 1: A lot of fun, a lot of joy, very simple.

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Speaker 1: We we we you know, we didn't travel. We we

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Speaker 1: barely got out of our neighborhood. Um. Uh, well, my

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Speaker 1: dad was still in our lives. Um. I believe my

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Speaker 1: mom is probably gonna get mad at me for for

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Speaker 1: getting the number wrong. But I think we moved, uh

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Speaker 1: fifteen times in eleven years. Um, and just my dad

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Speaker 1: was just all over the place, and we we you know,

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Speaker 1: moved neighborhood to neighborhood and trying to get a better deal.

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Speaker 1: I guess, I don't know, just following his lead. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, part of the moves was also that he

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Speaker 1: left home on two different occasions, so then my mom

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Speaker 1: would move back closer to her mother, which always lived

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Speaker 1: in our neighborhood where I ended up spending a lot

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Speaker 1: of time with at growing up. And um. Um, but

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Speaker 1: but it was simple, you know, my family outside of

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Speaker 1: my father, my family was we were ecstatic, you know.

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Speaker 1: We I've learned a lot in the last four or

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Speaker 1: five months with the stuff that's going on in the country,

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Speaker 1: because I'd always viewed life in this country through my lens,

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Speaker 1: and I've had to learn how to view it through

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Speaker 1: everybody's lens and in my lens. I don't understand why

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Speaker 1: people were unhappy with stuff in this country because this

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Speaker 1: country gave my family an opportunity to even freedom to

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Speaker 1: allow me to get educated for free, uh, to go

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Speaker 1: on at least it through high school and then go

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Speaker 1: on to college and now become a Division one basketball coach,

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Speaker 1: when when my family had no pedigree and academics in

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Speaker 1: this country. And um, um, you know so. But we

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Speaker 1: were a simple neighborhood man. We all looked out for

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Speaker 1: one another. Nothing easy. But we didn't know because all

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Speaker 1: we had was love, you know, our our families, they

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Speaker 1: loved us. They loved each other. Uh we we we,

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Speaker 1: you know, we the neighborhood took care of one another.

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Speaker 1: Or coaches at the high school had been our coaches

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Speaker 1: as were like eleven and twelve years old, and they

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Speaker 1: lived in the neighborhood and they grew up in the neighborhood. So, um,

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Speaker 1: that's all we had and it's all we knew. And

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Speaker 1: we were at peace with it and real happy. Okay, Um,

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Speaker 1: how he reconciled the issues with your father? Like? How

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Speaker 1: do you had? Obviously as a father yourself? And I'm

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Speaker 1: sure I get it. There's the guilt of and I

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Speaker 1: didn't even know my kids and till quarantine. But you

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Speaker 1: you are a good man. You are a good father

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Speaker 1: and a good husband. How have you reconciled because so oftentimes,

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Speaker 1: you know, when you have that in your past, you

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Speaker 1: carry it with you as a burden, but it also

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Speaker 1: becomes in some what levels who you are as a

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Speaker 1: dad or who you are? How have you reconciled the

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Speaker 1: dad issues for lack of a better term, that that

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Speaker 1: you had grown up? Yeah? I you know, as a kid,

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Speaker 1: I always wondered why why? Why is why is he

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Speaker 1: doing this? Why? Why? Why? Um? Why does he act

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Speaker 1: the way he acts? Why why is he gone? Why

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Speaker 1: don't you know he care? Why did he disappear and

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Speaker 1: never care for us after a certain date? Um? As

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Speaker 1: a man, I understandtand divorce. I get it. I comprehend

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Speaker 1: that we grow up as adults and sometimes even though

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Speaker 1: there's love, we we need to kind of get away

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Speaker 1: from one another. I kind of understand that I don't

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Speaker 1: understand how as the man you can get away from

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Speaker 1: your children and leave your children behind. And but I'm

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Speaker 1: a piece man, you know, I'm a man. Now I'm older. Um,

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Speaker 1: I comprehend that we we we make decisions as men.

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Speaker 1: Some are good, some are bad, and and uh, the

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Speaker 1: one thing we can't do is look in the rear

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Speaker 1: view mirror and go backwards. We we we have to

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Speaker 1: learn and move forward. So I'm at peace with the

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Speaker 1: decisions he made. I'm you know, I'm lucky. My mother

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Speaker 1: had a brother, my uncle that that uh he served

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Speaker 1: as uh that male influence in my life. And then

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Speaker 1: I lived in a neighborhood where um, you know, like

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Speaker 1: I said, our coaches were are meant they still lived

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Speaker 1: in the neighborhood. So they were like, who is who

400
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Speaker 1: is your basketball Who is your basketball coach in your

401
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 1: high school? Yeah, Marcus Shaker Rodriguez, and and then uh

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Speaker 1: and then his assistant, who's a principal at another school now,

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Speaker 1: Jose Nunez, whose son is the idea in New Mexico,

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00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 1: Eddie Nunyez. Um they were they lived in the neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: They were our coaches. Since we were like ten eleven

406
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Speaker 1: twelve years old. So when you misbehaved at home, uh,

407
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Speaker 1: you didn't have to worry about the next day, they

408
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Speaker 1: come get you at the house and and they made

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Speaker 1: you respect your home and respect what your mother said.

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Speaker 1: So unfortunate. I'm at peace with my dad, whatever decisions

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Speaker 1: he made. He's still alive. He and I have not

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Speaker 1: had a conversation since late seventies, seventy seventy nine. Um

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Speaker 1: and uh so, but it is what it is. I'm lucky.

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Speaker 1: I've had other men in my life that that filled

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Speaker 1: that role. Um okay. The first time you met Jaki

416
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: was went and where I was a kid um We

417
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Speaker 1: there was a basketball league. Uh at the old Orange

418
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Speaker 1: Bowl on their parking grounds. There as a basketball courts

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Speaker 1: and there's an organization that it's worldwide, the nationwide, the

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Speaker 1: Kawana's Club. One of the branches was in our neighborhoods

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Speaker 1: called the Kiwana's Club a little Havana and they sponsored

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Speaker 1: a basketball league. And Shaky was one of the guys

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Speaker 1: that at the time, he was like, you know, in

424
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 1: his mid twenties and he was one of the coaches

425
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: at the league. And you know, we were the kids,

426
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: you know, we all lived in the same neighborhood. So, um,

427
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 1: that's first time I met him, and um, you know,

428
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,199
Speaker 1: and then just you're around them and then you get

429
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: to high school and now you're around them more and um,

430
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: uh you know, powerful man. And as you I know,

431
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,880
Speaker 1: you're aware he uh just passed away two weeks ago

432
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: of an aneurysm. And uh but he he Uh. Without him,

433
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: a lot of us, a lot of us don't succeed

434
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: because he was. He was our father, no question. I mean,

435
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,880
Speaker 1: he's a kind of amazing person in in how many

436
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: people are connected to the sport and then connected to

437
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 1: each other. Um, what what was he like as a

438
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: basketball coach? You guys were very very successful when when

439
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,160
Speaker 1: you're on his staff before when you were on his staff, Um,

440
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: I mean he was incredibly success. What was he actually

441
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: as a basketball coach? What was he like? You know,

442
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: when you're a kid, Uh, You're like, man, why is

443
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: this guy so hard? So difficult? You know he's on

444
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 1: you and you know he'd make you Shakey's biggest thing

445
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 1: when you were a kid. He'd make you play one

446
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 1: on one and you couldn't fight and you couldn't quit

447
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: if you did either. He throw you out of the park,

448
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: and you couldn't come back. And so you had to

449
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 1: learn how to compete and and and get better. And

450
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 1: I couldn't play a wick. But if I, if I,

451
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: if I fought, he sent you home. If you quit,

452
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: he sent you home. And you don't want to let

453
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: him down because he worked so hard on the other side.

454
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: Then still trusting you in belief in you. I tell

455
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 1: people all the time, you know, we're all Cuban kids

456
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: from a real Cuban neighborhood in Miami. U Basketball's never

457
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 1: was not a Cuban sport. Yeah, we were all about

458
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: baseball and my family and then his kids in the

459
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: neighborhood in the seventies, it was all about the Miami

460
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: Dolphins and Larry Zunka. That was my guy. I want

461
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: to be Larry Zanka And and here's shake, you're trying

462
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: to teach us to play basketball, and uh but he

463
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:14,679
Speaker 1: he uh you know, whether here's the other thing I

464
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 1: said this? Uh, I can't remember who I was. It

465
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: was part of our racial reconciliation group in the NABC.

466
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: At a young age, I never understood that we were

467
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 1: different as people because whether you were white, Hispanic, black,

468
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 1: Puerto Rican whatever. He treated us all like we were

469
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 1: one and the same, and he made us understand we

470
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: needed one another to succeed. And then he had us

471
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 1: all thinking we could we were no good. He had

472
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 1: us thinking that if Magic and the Lakers would have

473
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 1: walked into the Miami Senior Higjam, we had a chance

474
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: to win. That's what he had us thinking. And and

475
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: you know, and we had one guy on that team

476
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: played Division one basketball, Anthony Grant. One guy. But he

477
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 1: had us thinking that we were that good. And but

478
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: that's that's who he was. He was really hard on us,

479
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: but he made us believe in ourselves and invested all

480
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: kinds of faith in us um So Miami Senior High.

481
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: And I only I didn't know this until the Super Bowl. Really,

482
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 1: I didn't realize. It's on South Beachrits. It's what is that?

483
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: What is that little island that little strip called No,

484
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: it's it's just you got South Beach and then you

485
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: got the Bay, and then you got downtown Miami, and

486
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 1: then you've got our neighborhood, which is just just west

487
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: of downtown Miami. It's it's uh, yours close to downtown

488
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 1: as you can possibly be Okay, so you go there

489
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: keep this game might be what you're talking about, which

490
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: slightly just to the east of US. So, um, so

491
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: you you you played high school? Were you good you personally? No? No?

492
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: Did you start? No? No, Doug, that was pathetic. He

493
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 1: That's why Shaky was so incredible. I I was an

494
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 1: awful basketball player, and and he kept me around. I

495
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: have no idea why kept me around? Now, I wanted

496
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: to try and I played nothing but football and baseball

497
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 1: until I got the tenth grade, and then I fell

498
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 1: in love. Our high school was the second oldest high

499
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: school in the state of Florida. It's the winningest high

500
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: school basketball team in the history of the state of Florida.

501
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 1: So we walk in this old Spanish architecture gymnasium is

502
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: called the Asylum. And walked in there in the place.

503
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: I'm a ninth grader and at the time was junior high.

504
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: You're not in high school in ninth grade back then.

505
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 1: And and there's no Miami heat there was no Miami Marlins,

506
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 1: there's no Division one basketball and nowhere. All we had

507
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: was high school basketball. And you walked in this gym

508
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,880
Speaker 1: and it was water wall, and I was like, Holy cow.

509
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: I want to play basketball, you know, I want I

510
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: want to do this, and he kept me around. I

511
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: was awful. He kept me around. He actually, my senior

512
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: year in high school, tried to convince me that he

513
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: can get me a scholarship at the University of Florida

514
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: with Norm Sloan and Mont Tallo to be a manager.

515
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: And I was like, I was like, no, Shake, I

516
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 1: want to play. I need to try and play and

517
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: and and I did. I tried to go to junior

518
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: college at Miami Dade and play and and got cut.

519
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: And that's how this whole coaching thing got started. And

520
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: I got cut and tore up my knee at the

521
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: same time. But so so then you went to f

522
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: I you right, but you were were you were your manager?

523
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: Were you on the staff? Like how did existence like

524
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: I get cut from the team and uh at Miami

525
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: Dade Community College they walk on trouts before the season

526
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: and uh. And then I'm trying to stay in shape.

527
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: I was gonna give it one more go. And then

528
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: I tear my knee up over Christmas. Uh playing pickup

529
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: basketball and Uh, I quit school. I quit everything. And

530
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: Shake you found out that I quit school. So he

531
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: calls me and he's like, hey, uh, I need you

532
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: to go back to school. And you gotta understand, nobody

533
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: in my family had ever attended college, So going to

534
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: college is not in the list of things that I

535
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: was told growing up. It was, you know, get your education,

536
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: respect school, get a job. So I was like, the

537
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: only time in my life I ever said no to him.

538
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: I said, Chake, I can't do it. I'm gonna just

539
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: keep working. I was working at a bank. I'm gonna

540
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: keep working and and help my mom pay bills. And

541
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: he was like, come by and see me. So I

542
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: went by, like a teller proof operator that that that

543
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: job is non existent. That means all the checks that

544
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: are deposited into the bank they end up on me.

545
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: And I've got to sit there and then code check

546
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: after check after check, um to balance to balance, check

547
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: deposits for all the businesses at the bank, and um

548
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: and you know. And so I went to see him

549
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: and he said, if you're not gonna go back to school,

550
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: why don't you come around and help me coach. I

551
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: was like, man at South Beach, I'm I'm getting ready.

552
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: I was eighteen. I'm like, I don't want to. I

553
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: want to hang out on South Beach. I want to

554
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: make money, help my mom and do the streets. That's

555
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: that's that's the life. And he says, come by and

556
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: help me coach. Our JV coach at the time is

557
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: someone I'm pretty sure you know, Sergio Rocco, also from

558
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: our neighborhood. And so I become Sergio's assistant JV coach,

559
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: and I fell in love with it. Man. And then

560
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: Sergio left at the end of that year to become

561
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: a head coach at another high school in town. And

562
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: in typical shaky fashion, he he never even asked me

563
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 1: if I wanted to be the JV coach. He said, Hey, Sunday,

564
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: excuse me, Friday, I need you to meet me. We're driving,

565
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: Uh for Lando, I said, for what? So we're going

566
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: to a coaching clinic. I need you to learn. And

567
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: that's how the whole thing got started in Man, and

568
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: UH never looked back. And it's all because of him.

569
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: Weren't you a bouncer at some point in time, Yeah,

570
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: I did that trying to South Beach was happening, Man.

571
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: That that's that's why that's three four. That's when South

572
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: Beach started. And and you know that's when that whole

573
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: Miami nightlife it's coming off. You gotta understand, it's coming

574
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: off the seventies, which is the whole you know, that's

575
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: when Miami took off the nightlife part of it because

576
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: of the drug scene and all that in the seventies

577
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: and uh, and then South Beach became popular and you know,

578
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: so I landscaped, uh washed dishes at restaurants. My first

579
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: job was when I was twelve years old, UH, and

580
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: it was taking subscriptions to the Miami Herald. They truck

581
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: a van would pick me up in front of my

582
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: house and drop me off in some neighborhood and I

583
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: go door to door sell subscriptions. Um. I do that

584
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: three nights a week, and I was a changed boy

585
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: at the local pool hall. I've done it all, man,

586
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: you name the job I've done. So I want to

587
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: work back to basketball in a second. But this is

588
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: important because, as you said, we all look at it

589
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: through this, this this tunnel right of as you were

590
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: raised in a Cuban neighborhood where there wasn't really the

591
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: excuses made like you had to go at and work.

592
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: You had to get a job, you had to make money.

593
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: You had to work hard, you had a good good

594
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: good good grades. If you want to play ball, you

595
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: gotta go play ball. There wasn't um. And then of

596
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: course you have you have everything that's taken place in

597
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: our country of the last you know, six to nine months,

598
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: which I think has been building over time. Um, how

599
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: do you how do you balance out the fact that, like, look,

600
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: your family came here as exiles with nothing, and you

601
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: made it and you continue to make it. It's it's

602
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: part of the culture. Look, my great great grandparents came

603
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: here on the boat with nothing, right, and and I

604
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: understand that there are different things that hold different people back.

605
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: But how do when when you're talking with your players

606
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: about the challenges that they're going to face in their life,

607
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: but also about the gifts and the privileges that they've

608
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: they've earned, but through basketball, how do you how do

609
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: how do you convey what you've been able to accomplish

610
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: with limited means and what they can accomplish with limited means. Yeah, well,

611
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: I've been talking to players about that since because that's

612
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: all I ever knew in my neighborhood and and whether

613
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: we were you know, the Miami River separated the Cuban

614
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: neighborhood from the Black neighborhood which is over Town, and

615
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: our high school was comprised of both neighborhoods, and so

616
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: it's um. I've been talking to our teams and players

617
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: about that forever. But this is the perspective that I

618
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: had to understand. And I didn't comprehend this until this

619
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: past summer. I've thought about it, but I never really

620
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: understood because I it was really confusing to me. You

621
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: know how somebody can say this country holds you back

622
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: and and and doesn't allow you to succeed, And I'm saying, well,

623
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: look at me. If I can do this, anybody can. Well.

624
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: Here here's the perspective. The perspective is that my country,

625
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: my family left a country that was that oppressed them,

626
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: that that took away everything they owned and and basically

627
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: took their everything but the ability to be alive away

628
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: from them. And if they questioned anything, they would have

629
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: taken their lives too. And this country gave my family

630
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: an opportunity to start from scratch, have freedom to work,

631
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: live and make the best of yourself however you choose to. Well,

632
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: I had to sit back and take a deep breath

633
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: and realize when African Americans start talking about some of

634
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: the stuff that that it is still wrong. Well, they're

635
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to make it right in

636
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: the same country where there was a Prussian up until

637
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four or five, Um, where some things they're

638
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,240
Speaker 1: still uh, you know they were enslaved in this country

639
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: their family members and up until the sixties. Um, you know,

640
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 1: some stuff was really bad and there's still some things

641
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: that aren't right. I had to kind of put myself

642
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: in a place. Will imagine if I had to go

643
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: back and live in Cuba under Fidel Castro's regime and

644
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: and and try to act like I'm comfortable with what

645
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: he has done the people in Cuba, And I said,

646
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: you know that that that doesn't make any sense. I

647
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: don't think I'd be able to do that. I want

648
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: out unless that regime completely changed, which which gave has

649
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: given me perspective to better understand my players and and

650
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: where they're at and make the conversation to comprehend that

651
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: there are something This is the way I worded to

652
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: our team now, Doug. Some people run the one hundred

653
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: yard dash, Others like myself, we run the one hundred

654
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: and ten yard hurdles and it's still a race, and

655
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: nothing's preventing you from running the race. Some of us

656
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 1: just have hurdles. Well, it's our job. Like me, I've

657
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: been able to clear a bunch of hurdles, get those

658
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: out of the way so the next person like me

659
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 1: can run the hundred yard dash. And you know, but

660
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: I try to tell our players it's okay to speak

661
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,439
Speaker 1: on what you believe, It's okay to share what life

662
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: is taught you, but also be willing to listen to

663
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: what life has taught others, because that's the one thing

664
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: that's beautiful. Hey dog, here's here's the beautiful thing. And

665
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:10,879
Speaker 1: you know, And you and I got to know each

666
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: other obviously through your dad, and your dad and Shaky

667
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: were kind of similar and how they went about life

668
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: with kids and basketball and helping people. And life in

669
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: California is a heck of a lot different than life

670
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: in Miami. They're both sunny and nice weather, but people

671
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: live completely different ways. And and then life in New

672
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: York and Miami in the Midwest, in this country, man,

673
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: there's we all have freedom, but we live in completely

674
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: different cultures and different styles of life and different parts

675
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: of it, there's no question. I think though, the the

676
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: question becomes, um, the thing about your family and the

677
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: thing about what you've told your players and taught your

678
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,919
Speaker 1: players for years, even going back to the high school days,

679
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: is the value of education. And we have work. I

680
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: think sometimes we're working against ourselves. That this has been

681
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 1: my I believe that that the greatest inequality in our

682
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: country that remains is education inequality, and that that the

683
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 1: that the education you get in a good neighborhood is

684
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: supposed to education you get in a bad neighborhood, regardless

685
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: of race. It's it's socio economic thing. And um. And

686
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: you know, the thing that I'm I'm most proud of

687
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: as as being Jewish is Judaism is literate culture. It

688
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: is unacceptable to not be literate and to to not

689
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 1: push yourself in academia on some level. Right. Don't get

690
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: me wrong, there's some a lot of downsides. There's downsides

691
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: to the Jewish culture that some parts of it that

692
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: I don't I don't like and I don't agree with.

693
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 1: I think that's with any culture. And my my parents,

694
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: for example, like they were a no excuses, like you

695
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: you're gonna get good grades. I don't remember my mom

696
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 1: or dad ever sitting down with me and doing my

697
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: homework like we do with our kids. But there was

698
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: no There's just no just do it. You can do it.

699
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: You can do the work. To do the work. When

700
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: I had a reading issue when I was in elementary school,

701
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: I got a reading specialist from a public school and

702
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 1: I got better. And that's the way. And then my

703
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: dad would give me. He would give me one sports book,

704
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: and then when I finished that one, he would give

705
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 1: me one like I remember reading The Boys from Brazil

706
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 1: leon Eurus from sixth grade amazing, like I'm like, And

707
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,879
Speaker 1: that was how I got to be a better reader. Anyway, Um,

708
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: your family, you to your family and to your players,

709
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: you preach education. I feel like, especially the basketball culture,

710
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 1: so much of it is about getting paid. How can

711
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: I get paid? Right from when you're in au Can

712
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: I get my shoes, gonna get my gear, can get

713
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: a little side money? You get to college basketball, and

714
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,399
Speaker 1: it's how quickly can I get from here to where

715
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 1: I'm making money? Where the change that occur with your

716
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: whole family for rest of your life. Yeah, you can

717
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: become a pro, but the doors that are open when

718
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: when you when you embrace yourself in the culture of education, like,

719
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,959
Speaker 1: how do we reward the great players as they should

720
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: be to be professionals, but also to the others. Let

721
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: them understand that they're getting they're getting the gift of

722
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: a chance at education. I think people also assume that

723
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: education means like that you learn something in school. It's

724
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 1: about who you're around, It's about problem solving, it's about

725
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: understanding kind of social jiu jitsu of people from different

726
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: backgrounds out of university, as well as managing time, managing

727
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: your money. All of these things come together. How do

728
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: you how do we, I guess reconcile that that education

729
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: is really important, And somehow it gets lost in this

730
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 1: conversation about players needing to feel or maybe maybe us

731
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: as as adults feeling like they should be compensated for

732
00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: their for their work. Dog, I wish I can state

733
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 1: at any better than what you just said. I say it,

734
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: I tell our players, and the verbiage I use is

735
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: education is the difference between the haves and the have nots.

736
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: And that's not skin color, that's not one race or another.

737
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: Um that's amongst Cubans folks in Miami back in the

738
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: day there were Cuban folks that made it a lot

739
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: sooner than others, and is because they moved to the

740
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: suburbs and got better educations than us in our neighborhood. Now,

741
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: I'll use my to your point that one of the

742
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: first things I've Tommy Amaker and I've tried to do

743
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: with the Committee on Social Reconciliation of Racial Reconciliation is

744
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: elimited S A T and a C T. S. That's

745
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,320
Speaker 1: not a representation of how intelligence you are. That's a

746
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: representation of your socio economic background and where you're at.

747
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: My parents had no money for tutors, and I just

748
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,439
Speaker 1: went to the local public school in our neighborhood where

749
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: where it was hard. And Um, I had my S

750
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 1: A T was seven eight. My daughter like she's my

751
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: blood as an eighth grader, her s A T is

752
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: an eighth grader, is an eleven hundred. It why she's

753
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: got my blood in her? Why because she's grown up

754
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: in a different neighborhood than I did, in a different

755
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: school system, and she's had access to tutors and all

756
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: the stuff you just spoke about. Um, but education is

757
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: what it's all about. And you are absolutely right. We have.

758
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,240
Speaker 1: I'll make one more point here to what you're exactly saying.

759
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 1: If you listen to our country and and there's a

760
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: group of people that are trying that always complain that

761
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: we protect the top two earners in our country and

762
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: that we should create laws that penalizing them for being

763
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: the top two to take away their money to spread

764
00:41:55,560 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: it amongst others. Okay, Yet in college basketball, we want

765
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: laws to make the lives of the top two percent

766
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 1: better and deprived the other it's a complete opposite. Like

767
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: what do I mean by that, Well, we're trying to

768
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,919
Speaker 1: change all the power of a college education is better

769
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: for We're we're getting ready to change all the rules

770
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: and other laws because of the guys, the two that

771
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: become the NBA. Guys that have the actually don't even

772
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 1: they don't actually need it, right because correct, here's my

773
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: thing with that whole deal. I get. I get the

774
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:39,319
Speaker 1: fact that salaries of the guys. Not everybody that has

775
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: my job makes a lot of money. There's very few

776
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: of us that make the money I make right now,

777
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,399
Speaker 1: But I get it. So that number has gone up,

778
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: and the scholarship numbers kind of stayed around the same,

779
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: even though we get all the perks. There there's stuff

780
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: our guys get you didn't get when you played at

781
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: almost so I mean, but but but there's there, there's

782
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: there's there's parts to it that we don't that that

783
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,760
Speaker 1: aren't talked about. This how many kids get into school,

784
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 1: get into school when couldn't get into school on their own.

785
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: That that has a value. And then like tuition is skyrocketing,

786
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: and what if we don't we don't value those things.

787
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: And you know, like I just I love the n

788
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: c A too, uh continue to embrace international players coming

789
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,399
Speaker 1: over and stay in school. And you know, I don't

790
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: love I wou transfer myself, but some of the transfer

791
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: culture in that there there are ways in which we

792
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: should reward kids that stay in school, reward kids that

793
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 1: do well in school. I'm not necessarily against if a

794
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: guy is actually gonna get his graduate degree, why does

795
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: he have to If you still represent the university and

796
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: is a student, why does he have to leave? Doesn't happen,

797
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 1: doesn't have to leave um. But it's it is interesting

798
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: the point that you're making, because I think some people

799
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 1: think that if you pay an athlete, it will stop cheating.

800
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: It won't, right because somebody's always gonna want more, right,

801
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: and the kid that can leave is going to leave.

802
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: There's no way you're gonna match up with the professional money.

803
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: Um and and I think we we just so greatly

804
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: undervalue the value of that time when you're in college,

805
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: the time of there's no parents, there's just your coach

806
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: and your peers. In addition to which, when you get done,

807
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: if you want to coach at a legit level, if

808
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: you want to be a lawyer, if you want to

809
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: be a doctor, if you want to almost any truly

810
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:40,240
Speaker 1: reputable job, you're going to have to have some basis

811
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: of college, if not a college degree. And we we

812
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: kind of brush over that because we feel like it's

813
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: unfair that you who have worked your entire professional life,

814
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: like they'll point out, hey, Frank Mark makes X right,

815
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 1: he makes million dollars like okay, but Frank Martin for

816
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: fifteen years was a high school coach making nothing. And

817
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 1: then when you went to Northeastern, Ron Everhart was the

818
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: head coach. Correct, Rudy Keeling is the one that hired me,

819
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: and then Rudy we got fired ten months later, and

820
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: Ron kept me. Okay, So when you went to work

821
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: for Rudy in Boston. You've been in Miami your whole life.

822
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: One what why did you go? Um? I lost faith?

823
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: And where the public school system in Dade County was going?

824
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: I I lost It wasn't a basketball thing. I lost

825
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 1: faith in the direction that the public school system was going.

826
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: And they were more concerned with UH test scores and

827
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: they were with educating. They were more concerned with babysitting

828
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:43,839
Speaker 1: children than they were with UM demanding teachers do more.

829
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: And UM, that's not what I'm about. And that that's

830
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: what opened my ears. Um. But and then you know,

831
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, I might as well try

832
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: this basketball thing well while I still got a chance. Okay,

833
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: So did you call Rudy? Did you have a connection

834
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: with Rudy? How? How did you? How did you how

835
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 1: that happened? Charlton Young, I don't know if you remember.

836
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 1: You know Charlton and Leonard Hamilton's staff. Charlton was Rudy's

837
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: assistant and Charlton's from Miami. He played high school basketball

838
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: in Miami. I coached against him and uh when he played,

839
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: and and he was recruiting our point guard and he

840
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 1: called me and he says, hey, Uh, I'm gonna take

841
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:22,479
Speaker 1: a job at Auburn before I recommend anybody coach really

842
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 1: really likes you, would you'd be interested. And I said, yeah,

843
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: tell him, I'd love to talk to him, and we did,

844
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: and then I I flew myself up to Boston UM

845
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: to basically make him hire me, and and he did,

846
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: and uh away we were twenty thousand dollars plus five

847
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: grand for camp and then we got fired in March.

848
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 1: So the five grand for camp never happened because he

849
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: got fired. So I didn't get to run the camp.

850
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: So grand to live in Boston. Did you have to

851
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: bring the point guard with you? Uh? No, he went,

852
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: He went to Miami, and uh I ended up then

853
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: recruiting him when Ronnie kept me, he left Miami and

854
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: he came to us as a transfer. Okay, Uh so

855
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: you guys get fired. What was it like? What was

856
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: that time like when ron gets the job and you're

857
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: kind of in limbo? It was crazy. Ian McCall, who's

858
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: the idea at Liberty, was our athletic director at the time,

859
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 1: and he calls me in and he says, Frank, um,

860
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 1: I appreciate everything you've done in your ten months here. Uh.

861
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: You know, we had to make the change. We're gonna

862
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: pay you for two weeks and you're done. And uh,

863
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna encourage a new coach to give you a

864
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: real look and if he wants to keep you, great,

865
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: and if not, I can't promise you anything. And I said,

866
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 1: thank you. So he gave me two weeks pay of

867
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: twenty eight grand and and you know, and I was

868
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 1: in Boston and I had a one year old son

869
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: in Miami whose mother and I had kind of split up.

870
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: Um and uh so I was going through that at

871
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: the same time. Um, and and I had to pay

872
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 1: his bills in Miami. And now I'm unemployed and I know,

873
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: I got two weeks pay and that's it. And then

874
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: Ronnie turns the job down. I didn't know Ronnie at

875
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: the time. He and Hudds were really tight. I didn't

876
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 1: know Ronnie at the time. And uh, he turns the

877
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: job down. And they offered to Glenn Miller, who was

878
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: a Brown and yeah, and Glenn played for Calhoun in Northeastern,

879
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: so there was a normal connection there. Um, Glenn, let

880
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 1: me know if I take the job, Frank, I'm not

881
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 1: gonna keep you. Well. He ends up turning the job

882
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: down two days later. So then they went back to Ronnie.

883
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 1: Then he finally took the job in May. So I

884
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: basically worked, not worked. I lived from March whenever we

885
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 1: lost in the semi final conference tournament, March tenth or whatever,

886
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 1: um for two months on two weeks pay. It was hard.

887
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: It was really really hard. And you just kept the

888
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 1: guys together and you kept doing what we're doing, work

889
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: what we're doing. I was on a floyd. I was

890
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: just living in Boston, fight like heck, trying to you

891
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: and come in you and you and come into the office.

892
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: We got terminated, Yeah, we got terminated. We we we

893
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 1: were told bye bye, two weeks pay, you're no longer employed.

894
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: So it was it was hard. Okay, So Roun takes

895
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:22,399
Speaker 1: a job, and I mean, how did you guys get

896
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 1: that thing going? Um? Ronnie hugs convinces Ronnie to keep me,

897
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 1: and Mike Cronin make also on you, Ronnie and make

898
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: an eye to this day, we're real good friends. And um,

899
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,879
Speaker 1: you know, Mike call Ronnie says, man, you gotta keep Frank.

900
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 1: And so Ronnie and I meet and he keeps me

901
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:48,240
Speaker 1: and uh, um, there's another story about when he decided

902
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: to keep me, which I'll share with you on a

903
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 1: different day because they're the balls Hogs and it's hilarious way.

904
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 1: But why are you no, no, no, you gotta give

905
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: it to me now. Anyone that knows Ronnie, I didn't

906
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:00,879
Speaker 1: want to take up all your of time on this story.

907
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 1: Anyone that knows this is this. This is better than

908
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: asking everybody's asked you about the Final four. I'd like

909
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: to get to I love to do Kansas State, but this,

910
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,280
Speaker 1: to me is the stuff of This is the stuff.

911
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: This is the basketball stuff that I love. It's before

912
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 1: he turns the job down. We're at the final four.

913
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 1: He calls me and says uh in Minneapolis calls me, says, hey,

914
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: come to my room. I want to meet with you.

915
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: So I go to his room. We're in his room

916
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,120
Speaker 1: to one thirty in the morning. We leave his room,

917
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: elevator hits the lobby, doors open, Hodges on the lobby floor.

918
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 1: Hudge looks at us and says, you two guys together.

919
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: He says I'm quitting. I'm getting out of the business,

920
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: and we start laughing and hugs says, I gotta go

921
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: to my room. I'll be right back. I'm getting cigars.

922
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: So he goes to his room, comes back downstairs. We're

923
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 1: waiting for him. We go to the bar and now

924
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: there's five of us sitting at the bar, l shaped

925
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: and it's some guy we don't know Huggs and then

926
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: us along this side of the bar. Ronnie's the last one,

927
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,839
Speaker 1: and Hugs is talking and the guy next to Hugs says,

928
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 1: there you go, you go. You always gotta be the loudmouth,

929
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,879
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah. Hugs is like, come on, man,

930
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 1: we're like, you know, we're just sitting here having a

931
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,439
Speaker 1: good time amongst friends. Get him a drink. It's we're good,

932
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 1: you know, And so we hugged by the guy drink

933
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 1: and you know, we keep talking. Twenty minutes later, the

934
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: guy Hugs says something, I guess it, man, I'm tired

935
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,839
Speaker 1: of hearing you. So Ronnie, who I just met that night,

936
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: is next to me over here. Ronnie says the guy hey,

937
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,040
Speaker 1: and before Ronnie says the second word, the guy says,

938
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 1: who the f are you? Well, Doug. Before he said you,

939
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 1: Ronnie had this guy by the head, smashing him against

940
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 1: the bartop and anyone that knows Ronnie knows he is

941
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 1: one of the toughest s o b s in the business.

942
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: And and and I'm sitting there and I'm watching this

943
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: and I'm a holy cow, I'm gonna work with this guy,

944
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: my god, And and and then that night he came over.

945
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:08,919
Speaker 1: He goes, Hey, if I take the job, you're coming

946
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 1: with me. And then he turned it down like the

947
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: following week, and then I'm still an Three weeks later,

948
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 1: he takes the job. How did your relationship with Hugs

949
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 1: come to be? You recruit one of your players? He

950
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: came in to recruit Cesar Portillo, who played for US

951
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 1: at Miami Senior in But Caesar went to junior college

952
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: and Huggs got hired of Cincinnati in eight nine. I

953
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: want to say, and now he was recruiting Caesar during

954
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: his sophomore year. We met Um at one of our

955
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 1: practices at the high school. And then I went to

956
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: a clinic Um that he was speaking at it. When

957
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 1: he was done, I went up to him. I'm a

958
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 1: little j V coach. I'm twenty three years old. I

959
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: go up a coach where hey, He says, hey, Frank,

960
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:55,439
Speaker 1: how are you am? I good to see you again.

961
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: It blew me away. He remembered who I was. Well,

962
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 1: he ends up hiring Mick. Mick and I were two

963
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: of Sonn, these guys that were running around all the time, uh,

964
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 1: you know, looking out for Sonny. And Mick says to Hogs, Hey,

965
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: we gotta bring Frank up. Frank up here to Cincinnati.

966
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 1: So they bring me to Cincinnati. Now when Brent Right,

967
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: these are guys, you know, Brent Right, Andre Firbue, when

968
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 1: those guys are playing high school for me. So we

969
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: I go up to Cincinnati, spend time with them, and

970
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: uh and then our friendship just continue to build over

971
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: the years. Brent Right is he's he's kind of on

972
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:31,800
Speaker 1: my list. I think he's the one. I don't know

973
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: if you know the story, but in two thousands, he's

974
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 1: at Florida, yep, and uh uh they're kicking our ass

975
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,839
Speaker 1: at the end of the game, and it said we're

976
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: lett him dribble out the clock, and I think it

977
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: was Brent Right, and he goes in and dunks it

978
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 1: right at the buzzer. Now, this is an amazing team.

979
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 1: It's got your boy you donnas has them. It's got

980
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 1: Mike Miller, it's got Teddy dupey Uh, it's got right

981
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 1: always the left. Brett Nelson was a sophomore. What was

982
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: the left handed kid who was a one and gune.

983
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 1: They had a guy named Justin Hamilton's They had Justin

984
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 1: Hamilton who became pro. Yeah, he got a bunch of

985
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: offensive rebounds. We we didn't, we didn't. Danelle Harvey was

986
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 1: left handed like one and done anyway, Brett right, dunstable,

987
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 1: bother the Red Mamba. Yes, I'm a great team. I

988
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 1: mean they were, They're better than us. They beat Duke

989
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,000
Speaker 1: in the sweet sixth team we want to play Duke

990
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 1: because Duke had beating us two years before and uh

991
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 1: uh and and they kicked our button but he dunks

992
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: it at the buzzer. They set him to the final

993
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:33,839
Speaker 1: four like hanging on the rim, and we all want

994
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: to fight because like, yo, you don't do that, Like

995
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: it's a bad enough you beat us. That's that's why

996
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,520
Speaker 1: Bret Wright story. So how about how about him? How

997
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 1: about him again? From our pocket, our our neighborhood, the

998
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: whole thing. When he was retired from playing professionally, he

999
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 1: started his own charter school in his own neighborhood. And

1000
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: now he's the basically the guy that runs a school,

1001
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 1: educating young kids in that neighborhood. And then you have

1002
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: then you have your honest has some like still in

1003
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,800
Speaker 1: the NBA and and maybe the most respected player in

1004
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,760
Speaker 1: the NBA. But what he stands for and and his leadership,

1005
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: he's like a remarkable human being. Unreal, unreal. Okay, So

1006
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 1: then you go and and and you work for a

1007
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 1: hugey Um, what was that experience? Like? Yeah, we we

1008
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:25,800
Speaker 1: you know, Ronnie, Uh, Ronnie keeps me and then we

1009
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 1: go signed Jose Wambarea and and we signed some other guys.

1010
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 1: A couple of played from me in high school. They

1011
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: were in junior college. And the transfer I told you about.

1012
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 1: So we we get real good. I mean, we go

1013
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 1: beat West Virginia, West Virginia, we went down the Florida

1014
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: lost to h j J had knee surgery and played

1015
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: six days later and we lose to Florida by six.

1016
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 1: I want to say, um, you know we we we

1017
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 1: we kind of got to go in and we we

1018
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 1: went over twenty games a couple of years in a row.

1019
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 1: Ronnie and the new athletic director we're butting heads. So uh,

1020
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 1: Huggs has an opening on his staff. It's when Hudgs

1021
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 1: was he was suspended because of the d U I

1022
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: at the time, and Ronnie calls me in and says, hey,

1023
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go meet with Huggs and Cincinnati. I think

1024
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take that job. So he goes to Cincinnati,

1025
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: meets with Hugs. He's gonna leave Northeaster and as the

1026
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,280
Speaker 1: headball coach to go to Cincinnati to be with Hugs,

1027
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 1: and uh they went through it for about a week

1028
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,359
Speaker 1: and he decided not to take the job. So now

1029
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: I think, Okay, good, at least I got a job.

1030
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: I've never been one dog to call guys asking for

1031
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,480
Speaker 1: jobs like I had a relationship with Huggs already. I'd

1032
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: always told him it's the way I do business. When

1033
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: I got that kind of relationship with somebody, I tell him, like,

1034
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 1: if you ever need me, I'm here. I'm not gonna

1035
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 1: blow your phone up. And uh So I'm actually at

1036
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 1: the day at the time, I'm dating my present wife,

1037
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:55,960
Speaker 1: the mother of my children on you and it's a

1038
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:59,839
Speaker 1: Friday in August and we're having lunch at a little

1039
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 1: restaurant in Braintree, Massachusetts, and my phone rings in the

1040
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: Hugs so I take the call. Typical Hugs, Frank, what's up?

1041
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 1: And I'm just dealing with this suspension and I get

1042
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 1: off of it in a couple of weeks. Gotta data

1043
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 1: da you know. We're just talking and and he says,

1044
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: you know, Ronnie is gonna stay. Yes, obviously, I know, Hugs.

1045
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: You know, disappointed, I know, uh, you know what you

1046
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: mean to him and all that. He says, you know, Uh, well,

1047
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: you know, I got to hire somebody because Dan Peters

1048
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 1: passed away. Who's Huggs is Guy Pepete? You know Dan?

1049
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: Dan left to go to Ohio State. And uh, you know,

1050
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 1: I gotta get somebody I can trust. And and he says,

1051
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: what do you think about you? And I said, Huggs,

1052
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 1: I've always told you man, I'm never gonna bother you

1053
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 1: with this. If you ever need me for anything, I'm here.

1054
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 1: All you gotta do is ask says, well, I need you.

1055
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: So I hang up the phone and I said, when

1056
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: he goes, can you be here Monday? He was in Florida.

1057
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 1: He goes, can you be in Cincinnati on Monday? I said, yeah,

1058
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 1: send me a plane ticket. I said, let me call Ronie.

1059
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 1: He goes already talked to him. He's aware we're good.

1060
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: So I hang up the phone and Anya says to me,

1061
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 1: what just happened? We're just dating. We've been dating for

1062
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 1: like three months, and she says, what just happened? I said,

1063
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 1: I just took a job to Cincinnati and she said, really,

1064
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,919
Speaker 1: when you leave? I said Monday? And she said, wow,

1065
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 1: what about me? And she you gotta understand, she had

1066
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 1: a high job, like she was the assistant director of

1067
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: financial services at the university and and so she she

1068
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 1: had a job that made money. She's she's got a career.

1069
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 1: I mean she's going Uh. And you know, she says,

1070
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: what does that mean for me and us? And I said,

1071
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 1: I didn't know what to say. So we left the restaurant,

1072
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 1: got to their house and I said, would you be

1073
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 1: willing to go? She says, if you ask me, I'll come.

1074
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 1: And Uh. In the back of my mind, I was like,

1075
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: this is the one, this is the one. If she's

1076
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 1: willing to help me chase my career and give up

1077
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 1: her career, are you kidding me? And uh? And the

1078
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: way we went, so I took the job with hugs

1079
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 1: and she stayed behind because it was already late August.

1080
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: She stayed behind. She didn't want to leave her boss

1081
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:29,439
Speaker 1: behind with the start of the academic year. She wanted

1082
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 1: to make sure she did all that. Uh, and then

1083
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 1: she moves. Um. Then it's A K. Huggs, Keith Lagree

1084
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: and I and I'm like single, single professionally, not personally,

1085
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: and um, but Annie is not moving Over to the

1086
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 1: following summer, well, the following summer, A K and I

1087
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: are in the office. Huggs is working Jordan's camp in California,

1088
00:59:56,160 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 1: and I hear on the radio Bob Hoggins fired. I

1089
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 1: walk all over to A K and A K. Are

1090
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:05,240
Speaker 1: you listening to this? He's like, no, what I said?

1091
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: They say, just fired, huggsow. I said, what the radio want?

1092
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: We put it on? Bob Huggins fired. So we we

1093
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 1: started calling his attorney, Richard Cats, who's in Cincinnati, and

1094
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: he says, yeah, we're in the middle of this right now.

1095
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 1: Huggs don't even know. So we're called on Hodgs in

1096
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 1: California and now we're sitting there. It's August again, the

1097
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 1: following year. My wife's been in town for one week

1098
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,680
Speaker 1: and here we are unemployed, and I'm saying, Jesus Lord,

1099
01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:33,959
Speaker 1: have mercy. What have I done to this poor lady.

1100
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 1: But it all worked out. Man. Unbelievable. Right, all right,

1101
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 1: you're at Kansas State and you guys had gone out

1102
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: and gotten guys are completely in like one fail swoop

1103
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: like changed the culture. Unbelievable job in recruiting for one

1104
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: year and then Hugs Leaves, take me through what happened

1105
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 1: so that you got the job. Yeah, you know, Doug

1106
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 1: of hodget State of Cincinnati. We had Michael Beasley, O J. Mayo,

1107
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:08,919
Speaker 1: Billy Walker, the one Blair, DJ Kennedy, all those guys

1108
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 1: were coming. It was done. They were all coming. So

1109
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 1: now we got to convince all of them like, hey,

1110
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 1: it's not Cincinnati, it's Manhattan, Kansas. And and uh bees

1111
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: and and uh Bill said, we're in. O J dealt

1112
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: with the whole deal that everyone knows about now. And he,

1113
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 1: you know, he decided to stay out west Um and

1114
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: you know the Wan Blair Uh just he said, Man,

1115
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be too far from my grandma. So he

1116
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 1: stays home, goes to pit d. J Kennedy goes to St. John's.

1117
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 1: He didn't want to go if the one didn't come.

1118
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 1: He didn't want to come to Manhattan, Kansas. And Um,

1119
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: but the way we go, we signed some real good players. Um,

1120
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: and and and you know, but that's while Hudgs is

1121
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,920
Speaker 1: the head coach. We had some pretty good players that

1122
01:01:56,040 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 1: had left behind, but they were all seniors. And now

1123
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:03,480
Speaker 1: we get left out of the n C Double A tournament.

1124
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 1: We deserved to be in that thing. The year Huggs

1125
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: was the head coach at KSE State, UM, unbelievable. Hudgs

1126
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 1: is ridiculous man. People don't understand. You know how good

1127
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 1: he is. You give him a bucket and he's gonna

1128
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:19,280
Speaker 1: make something great with whatever is in the bucket. He'll

1129
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: figure out whatever is in that bucket and turn it

1130
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 1: into something great. And and he unreal the job he

1131
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 1: did a case State that year. And now we're at

1132
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:33,560
Speaker 1: the final four. And I knew that the only job

1133
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 1: he'd ever leave KSE State four was West Virginia. I

1134
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: was with him. Arkansas called offered him the job he's

1135
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,439
Speaker 1: had not interested, hung up and and that we're gonna

1136
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 1: double his salary to go to Arkansas. And so I'm

1137
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 1: at the final four, I fly home and we've been

1138
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,480
Speaker 1: a case that you gotta understand now. I told my

1139
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 1: wife that we're gonna move to Manhattan. Chief housed out

1140
01:02:56,560 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 1: in Manhattan, New York, where she's from. And when when

1141
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 1: I said, oh my god, I had already told Hugs

1142
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 1: we're in and I'm on the phone and and she's yelling,

1143
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:10,280
Speaker 1: we're going to We're going to Manhattan, all right, Manhattan, Kansas.

1144
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 1: There was silence, and and I was like, yeah, han,

1145
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a great time. And she says we'll

1146
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 1: talk when we get home and hung up on So

1147
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 1: Huggs says, we're good. I say, yeah, she's happy, We're fine,

1148
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 1: We're good to go. So now here we are a

1149
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 1: year later, right, and I gotta tell her that we're

1150
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 1: moving to Morgantown, West Virginia, West Virginia, and and you know,

1151
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 1: and I said, I'm getting divorced. It's just it is

1152
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 1: what it is. She's going back to the East Coast

1153
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 1: and I'm done. Um, but unbelievable, man, unbelievable ride. And

1154
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:47,080
Speaker 1: and then uh John weifold Um who was the president

1155
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 1: at the university at the time. Uh Bob Krause who

1156
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 1: was the vice president who had been there for twenty years,

1157
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 1: who passed away a couple of years ago. And Tim Wiser,

1158
01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 1: who is the athletic director who was is now the

1159
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:03,920
Speaker 1: associal your commissioner in the Big twelve. Um Huggs resigned

1160
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: on Thursday. They called me Thursday afternoon. I met with them. Uh.

1161
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: I was in a car headed to the airport to

1162
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 1: get on the plane with Hugs. I had a I

1163
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:16,080
Speaker 1: had a gold tie and a blue sport cup. And

1164
01:04:16,160 --> 01:04:18,200
Speaker 1: I was headed to get on the plane with Hugs,

1165
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 1: um on a different car than him, to get on

1166
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 1: the plane to fly to Morgantown for for his introductory

1167
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:27,920
Speaker 1: press conference. And I got a call from the a

1168
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 1: D and he says, where you at. I told him

1169
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:32,480
Speaker 1: I'm I'm at the house with the wife, trying to

1170
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 1: talk this thing through. I was actually headed to the airport.

1171
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 1: And uh, he says, I need to meet with you

1172
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 1: in an hour. I said, okay, I hung up. I

1173
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 1: called Huggs. Hugs said, you need to go back because

1174
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 1: I think I convinced him to hire you. Uh. They

1175
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:48,480
Speaker 1: they're so mad at me that I don't know if

1176
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:51,440
Speaker 1: they're gonna listen to me, but I think they're convinced

1177
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: that you're the guy. So I went home, I changed,

1178
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,280
Speaker 1: I went in met with the a D. That night.

1179
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,920
Speaker 1: I went to the president's house, met with the A D,

1180
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:03,440
Speaker 1: the vice president of resident um. UH. The next morning,

1181
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,920
Speaker 1: me and Delonte hill I went in and met with

1182
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 1: the a D, the president and the vice president, and

1183
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: they offered us the job. Uh. And I was the

1184
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 1: lowest paid head coach in the league and he was

1185
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: the highest paid assistant in the league. And it's the

1186
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: way I wanted it. I wanted it, you know. I

1187
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 1: didn't want to be a stop gap. It's the only

1188
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 1: thing I told those guys when I interviewed. You guys,

1189
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 1: just want to keep Michael Beasley, hire someone else on

1190
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 1: the staff if you do it, because you believe in

1191
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:36,240
Speaker 1: me and you will give me a chance. I'm all

1192
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:40,520
Speaker 1: in and uh. And they believed in me. And I said,

1193
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 1: I just you know, like I ain't stupid. Now. I

1194
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:45,280
Speaker 1: wanted the Lanta the state. He and I had a

1195
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 1: great relationship, and that meant Beasley's coming to and Delonte,

1196
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 1: by the way, is he got a lot of bad

1197
01:05:55,200 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 1: reviews back then by jealous people. Unbelievable basketball coach, unbelievable

1198
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 1: human being. And and so he stays, we take the job.

1199
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 1: Here it comes bees. Bill was already you know, Bill

1200
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 1: Walker was already there, Jacob Poland I bring Denny clement

1201
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 1: In as a transfer red shirt at that first year. Uh,

1202
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 1: and away we went, man and it's incredible. Run all right,

1203
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 1: two things one and you're a man of your word.

1204
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:25,040
Speaker 1: And I know you're busy, And I gotta go to

1205
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:28,520
Speaker 1: Can I get a part two so that I can

1206
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 1: get because I want the I want a little bit

1207
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:33,680
Speaker 1: of Beasley, I want to South Carolina, I want the

1208
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:35,120
Speaker 1: other stuff. Can I Can I get a promise in

1209
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 1: a part two? Uh? The promise is done? Now? You

1210
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 1: want to do that now? Or no? No, I I don't.

1211
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:43,680
Speaker 1: I don't have a time on that. But what I

1212
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 1: do have is this one thing to wrap it up.

1213
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 1: Considering you self admitted not a great player, all these

1214
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:55,680
Speaker 1: different jobs, um, decided to leave high school where you

1215
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 1: were incredibly successful in Miami. That's the part that you buried, right,

1216
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 1: state championships and and and all these players are going

1217
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 1: to college and the bouncing around. What was it like

1218
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 1: to go back to tell your wife, I'm a head

1219
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:11,440
Speaker 1: coach at Kansas State. Yeah? That that that we here's

1220
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 1: a great story of that moment, Doug. We're in this

1221
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 1: big ballroom by the President's office, and it's Delonte and

1222
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 1: I and two chairs and it's this huge table and

1223
01:07:20,600 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 1: way on the other side is the president, the vice president,

1224
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:26,440
Speaker 1: and the a D. And they make their presentation and

1225
01:07:26,520 --> 01:07:29,040
Speaker 1: that seriously. Now they're like, way on the other side

1226
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 1: of the room, they said, we wanna offer you, Frank,

1227
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 1: the head coaching job, and we're gonna pay you six

1228
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars a year, and we want Delonte to

1229
01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 1: be the associate head coach, if that's okay with you, Frank,

1230
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 1: and we're gonna pay Delonte four hundred thousand dollars a year.

1231
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 1: Delonte and I sat there and we're just staring. Neither

1232
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,400
Speaker 1: one of us moves. We don't say a word, we

1233
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 1: don't look at each other. And now the president kind

1234
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 1: of sits back in his chair. He looks nervous. He's like,

1235
01:07:57,480 --> 01:07:59,160
Speaker 1: do you guys need a minute to talk about this?

1236
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 1: And I said yeah, absolutely, So he goes, please step outside.

1237
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 1: So we step outside the room. We step outside the room.

1238
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 1: We're like, yo, these dudes offered us the job. These

1239
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: guys out for us the job, and and and uh

1240
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,240
Speaker 1: so we go back in and we're like we're in.

1241
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,439
Speaker 1: We shake hands and then we called our wives. Delonte

1242
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 1: called his we're next door neighbors. Delonte calls his wife.

1243
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 1: I called my wife. They're both crying on the phone.

1244
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:30,720
Speaker 1: They we hang up. They both run outside and our

1245
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 1: kids at the time, where my daughter was a little

1246
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 1: legit and his oldest daughter was, they run outside. They're

1247
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:38,680
Speaker 1: all celebrating in the front of the house. And you know,

1248
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:41,200
Speaker 1: we're back in there with the a D trying to

1249
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 1: make plans to fly to Memphis that night to go

1250
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 1: meet with Michael Beasley who's with USA basketball getting ready

1251
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 1: to uh be a Memphis to play in Memphis, and

1252
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:56,000
Speaker 1: uh um, unbelievable moment, man, the joy. And then then

1253
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 1: we called our moms because he's just like me, raised

1254
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 1: by his mom. Then we called our arms and then

1255
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 1: they start crying. It was powerful moment, powerful moment in

1256
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 1: our lives, and we shared that moment together. I want

1257
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 1: to pause our conversation with that and really appreciate your

1258
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 1: time and uh and and we'll look forward to part two.

1259
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 1: We'll do it, man, looking forward to it. All Right,

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Speaker 1: that's the end of part one with my Frame Martin interview.

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01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 1: My appreciation to him and to you for downloading, rating

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01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:27,680
Speaker 1: and score subscribing review us, make sure you give us

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01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:30,560
Speaker 1: a good rating. A reminder, The Doug gottli Show is

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01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 1: available daily daily from three to six Eastern Towel through

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01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 1: Pacific on your iHeart Radio app, on Fox Sport Tradio,

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01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 1: Fox Sport Trade dot com you can you can stream

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01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:44,559
Speaker 1: us wherever you want. We're also on Serious Sex. I'm

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01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 1: two seventeen and two oh three. Thanks so much for listening.

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01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:51,320
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for part two. I'm Doug Gottlieben. This is

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Speaker 1: all ball