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Speaker 1: But knowledge to work and grow your business with c

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Speaker 1: T dot com put Knowledge to Work. Hello and welcome

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Speaker 1: to another episode of the Odd Lots podcast. I'm Joe

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Speaker 1: Wisanthal and I'm Tracy Alloway. Hey, Tracy, you know what

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about recently? No one remember that time?

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Speaker 1: Remember that time you came over and had dinner at

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Speaker 1: my house? Yes, yes, you promised that you would make

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Speaker 1: me dinner. And the dinner you made was raw fish.

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Speaker 1: So really you didn't make much I said. I said, uh,

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Speaker 1: I said, is there any kind of food that you

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Speaker 1: don't like? And you're like, well, I'm not really into fish. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you made me raw fish, Thanks Joe, But I

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Speaker 1: made fish anyway. I apologize about that. So after all

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Speaker 1: this time, like a year and a half later or whatever,

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Speaker 1: a year later, it's sort of dawned on me that

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Speaker 1: that was kind of rude. It was pretty good though,

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Speaker 1: it was, okay, wasn't it. Yeah? It was. Yeah. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you liked it. Okay, good. Well, that's the

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Speaker 1: perfect seg because today on our podcast we are going

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Speaker 1: to talk about fish. So this is the podcast equivalent

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Speaker 1: of you serving me fish for dinner. Well, it seems

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Speaker 1: like we have a lot of episodes where I come

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Speaker 1: up with something and then you're like, this isn't really

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Speaker 1: my thing, but they usually turn out kind of well

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Speaker 1: like that dinner did. So it is kind of like, uh,

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Speaker 1: that equivalent, except this time we're not talking about raw fish.

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Speaker 1: What kind of fish are we talking about? Well, let's

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Speaker 1: back up real quickly, because obviously in markets we talk

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Speaker 1: about commodities all the time, and we talked about you know,

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Speaker 1: we talked about cattle, and we talked about wheat, and

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Speaker 1: we talked about corn and that being pork bellies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly right. We don't really talk about seafood all that much.

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Speaker 1: Uh No, is there a thriving seafood commodity market that

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Speaker 1: I should be aware of? Well? Not really, But did

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Speaker 1: you know that there was once sort of a bubble

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Speaker 1: in or a gold rush in US seafood? In US seafood,

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Speaker 1: I'm really like, I'm trying to scratch my head and

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Speaker 1: think about which particular seafood it could possibly be. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's let's just cut right to the chase. We are

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Speaker 1: going to be talking about the delicious one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite fishes, the catfish. And it turns out that there

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Speaker 1: was once a sort of catfish bubble in America. I know,

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Speaker 1: hard to believe, right, Well, we've seen I mean, we've

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Speaker 1: seen bubbles and lots of things. Um, the Beanie Babies

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Speaker 1: episode we did was one of my favorite bubbles of

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Speaker 1: all times. So, um, I can believe it. Who exactly

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Speaker 1: is going to be discussing this with us? Well, we

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Speaker 1: have the perfect guest today. His name is Mike McCall

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Speaker 1: and he is the editor of the Catfish Journal, a

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Speaker 1: publication on the catfish industry, and he is the author

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Speaker 1: of the book Catfish Days from bel Zona to the

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Speaker 1: Big Apple, which is all about America's uh, the time

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Speaker 1: we had a catfish gold rush in America. So let's uh,

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Speaker 1: let's bring in Mike. Mike McCall, thank you very much

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Speaker 1: for joining us. Thanks for having me. So did I

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Speaker 1: introduce this right? Is it fair to say that there

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Speaker 1: was once a time in America when we once had

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Speaker 1: a catfish bubble so to speak. I'll think that's correct. Um,

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Speaker 1: the way the business came on in the nineteen sixties

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Speaker 1: and started bowing in the seventies and really the nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighties and nineties that was a big hey day of

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Speaker 1: the business to everybody had to get into it. And

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Speaker 1: of course the business is mainly in the South, but

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Speaker 1: people are coming from all over the country. And if

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Speaker 1: you look at the statistics, uh, it was just burning

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Speaker 1: and up until around two thousands and then started going down. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned that it, you know, mostly boomed in

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Speaker 1: the South. I was recently in a Mississippi where I

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Speaker 1: had some delicious fried catfish at the Taylor Grocery outside

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Speaker 1: of Oxford, Mississippi. So tell us the story. Why did

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Speaker 1: people get so excited that they felt that they had

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Speaker 1: to get into the catfish business back in the sixties

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Speaker 1: and seventies. Well, it started off slowly and began to

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Speaker 1: pick up some steam and and anand for the niche media,

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Speaker 1: I believe was a factor because the story was covered

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Speaker 1: as a real novelty in some ways and and and

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Speaker 1: it is a novelty I guess compared to other agricultural businesses.

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Speaker 1: But it was covered in all of the national media.

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Speaker 1: Their events in Washington, d C. And in New York

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Speaker 1: and the industry started advertising in nineteen seven, and it

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Speaker 1: was a really nice ad campaign, public relations campaign targeted

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Speaker 1: to food editors for people who were not familiar with catfish,

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Speaker 1: and that really it was just like going into second

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Speaker 1: gear in the race car, and just things really started

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Speaker 1: to pick up. Joe, your choice of topic is going

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Speaker 1: to backfire on you, because I want you to know

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Speaker 1: I was born in Arkansas. My grandmother lived there pretty

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Speaker 1: much most of her life, and I remember as a

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Speaker 1: young kid going to some catfish farms and looking at

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Speaker 1: the catfish. We also went to chicken farms, but maybe

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Speaker 1: that's a topic for another episode. Um So, Mike, In

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Speaker 1: terms of the catfish farms, what was the sales pitch

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Speaker 1: and was it was this sales pitch aimed at, you know,

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Speaker 1: small operators, like small farmers to get them into the industry.

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Speaker 1: There really was no sales pitch to farmers to get

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Speaker 1: into captish farming. They just gravitated to it and they

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Speaker 1: were looking for something different. Your own crop business was down,

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Speaker 1: and you know, if you if if you had land

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Speaker 1: and a little money, it's an expensive thing to get into.

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Speaker 1: But people just started gravitating to it. White readers. Dodges

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Speaker 1: have a story on captish farming, and I think about

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Speaker 1: seventy three and millions of people read that. And the

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Speaker 1: Captives Farmers of America office a little one man office

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Speaker 1: at the time, phone was ringing off the hook. They

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Speaker 1: got thousands of leathers. Everybody wants to get into it,

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Speaker 1: so so really people just wanted to get into it. Now,

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Speaker 1: every grade boom or bubble has a story, a dream

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Speaker 1: attached to it. And in the case of catfish, people

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Speaker 1: really thought it was going to become potentially as big

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Speaker 1: as chicken, right, that it was going to be the

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Speaker 1: next great American white meat. People all around the country

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Speaker 1: would just make it a staple of their diets, right,

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Speaker 1: That's true. Structurally, there's something quite different about the cactus

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Speaker 1: farming industry compared to let's say posty industry, which is

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Speaker 1: a mature, vertically integrated industry. They posty companies, caissons, whoever,

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Speaker 1: they contract with growers to growers, chickens. They have their

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Speaker 1: own processing plan, they have their own fig meal. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's a market more of the market driven industry.

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Speaker 1: Captist is more of a producer driven industry. Because the

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Speaker 1: farmers were growing fish for whoever would buy from them,

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Speaker 1: And yes, they might own stock and a processing plant.

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Speaker 1: They yes, kept kept growing the fish. And that was

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Speaker 1: part of the problem of the bubble because production exceeded demand,

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Speaker 1: and especially when you're important fish started coming into mayor

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Speaker 1: had a root a good price, that those markets were

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Speaker 1: lost and nothing things started going downhill. So, Mike, before

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Speaker 1: we get to that point, if I was someone in

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Speaker 1: Arkansas and say the late nineteen eighties, and I was

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Speaker 1: interested in getting into the catfish industry, what would I

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Speaker 1: actually have to do in order to participate? And like,

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Speaker 1: what kind of investment would I have to make? How

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Speaker 1: would I actually begin farming catfish? Great, well, you have

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Speaker 1: to have a pile of money for one thing. And

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Speaker 1: and some lads, you say, Arkansas are you talking about

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Speaker 1: like the southeastern partment state. Well, I was born in

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Speaker 1: blythe phel but my grandmother was in Hope, Arkansas for

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Speaker 1: a long time. I'm glad we're getting good to specifics.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to have a discussion about the economics

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Speaker 1: of catfish farming in Arkansas without complinting the region. Correct. Well, uh,

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Speaker 1: what what you would do back in those days? Um,

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Speaker 1: you would talk to people. You would talk to your

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Speaker 1: extension service about the land you would it be good

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Speaker 1: for growing catfish? Is the soul? Right? Do you have

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Speaker 1: print of water? And of course do you have the

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Speaker 1: money to build ponds? In some cases you might have

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Speaker 1: had to buy stock in the processing plant, which gave

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Speaker 1: you rights to sell to that plant. There are a

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Speaker 1: lot of factors. Uh, there's no saying in the business,

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Speaker 1: uh that you're not gonna make any money growing fish.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna make your money selling fish. So and so

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Speaker 1: that's kind of something that a lot of people did

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Speaker 1: not think about. Uh. We'll get into this later, I guess,

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Speaker 1: but that whole scenario is kind of change thing so

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Speaker 1: quieted down, stipilized in the industry, those things that are

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Speaker 1: really gonna happen anymore. Let's get even more specific, because

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Speaker 1: our audience is pretty nerdy here, and I think they'll

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Speaker 1: enjoy it. So let's talk about how many acres of

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Speaker 1: land you could get, how much, how big of a

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Speaker 1: pond you would need, and the unit economics in terms

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Speaker 1: of the cost of feed for x amount of catfish

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Speaker 1: protein relative to say how much that same energy or

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Speaker 1: feed costs would get you with say chickens, In the

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Speaker 1: early days, some of these captives ponds were as large

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Speaker 1: as forty acres or so. And let's proved to be

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Speaker 1: how inefficient the industry transcended to a smaller ponds pisure

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Speaker 1: to manage uh naicely smaller ponds. Today they're ten to

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Speaker 1: fifteen pounds acres excuse me the old number that's always

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Speaker 1: combandoned about. It's gonna cost you about three thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: per acre to get into the business. Now that includes

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Speaker 1: building your ponds, forming your levies, and of course you're

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Speaker 1: gonna need a lot of equipment. You're gonna need tractors

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Speaker 1: and trucks. You're gonna need aeration equipment to produce oxygen

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Speaker 1: in the ponds. You're gonna have to of course stock

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Speaker 1: your ponds with small fingerings that you're gonna buy from

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Speaker 1: most likely from somebody else. So so let's say you

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Speaker 1: stock your your fingerings. Then of course you have to

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Speaker 1: grow them. And in the case of catfish, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: take you roughly a year and a half to grow

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Speaker 1: that fish to maturity. You're gonna pour in the feed

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Speaker 1: in there, which that's depended on your grain costs. Let's

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Speaker 1: go up and down. Sometimes it's been very high and

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Speaker 1: lightly as moderated, So you're going to be spending all

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Speaker 1: that money, and of course on people too. You've got

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Speaker 1: to have people to to run the farm. And then, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, in a year and a half or so,

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Speaker 1: the world can change. Uh. Prices might be down, they

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Speaker 1: might be up a little bit. Uh. Grain prices will

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Speaker 1: be up and down. There a lot of variables. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And of course at the end of the cycle, you

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Speaker 1: need to sell your fish to a processing plant and

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Speaker 1: the processing plant owner and you might not be on

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Speaker 1: the same page. Of course, you want to move your

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Speaker 1: fish in an orderly way, but depending on the market,

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Speaker 1: depending on how much fish are out there, um uh,

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Speaker 1: it can be a very difficult thing to work through.

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Speaker 1: That's what happened around two thousand when the industry hit

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Speaker 1: the highest production ever and yet the fish prices for

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Speaker 1: the former with the lowest in twenty five years. So uh,

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Speaker 1: things things happen today inventories to manage that. Uh, you

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Speaker 1: don't really have that oversupply, of course, we've lost so

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Speaker 1: much of them the anchorage, but it's it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a more manageable situation now, Mike. Before we get to

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Speaker 1: the overproduction and the bursting of the bubble. I just

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Speaker 1: want to press you on this point because the description

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Speaker 1: you just gave of how to get into catfish farming,

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Speaker 1: it's not a cheap investment and it's not an easy investment.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like you have to be pretty serious about it.

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Speaker 1: So could you just dive in a bit more into

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Speaker 1: the psychology of the people who got into this industry

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Speaker 1: and whether or not you know where their companies or

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Speaker 1: like sales reps that were trying to push them into

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Speaker 1: catfish farming. Um, I don't believe they were actually sales

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Speaker 1: reps that well, that there were people during the early

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Speaker 1: growth years. I guess the processing plants were trying to

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Speaker 1: get people in off and catfish farming because they needed fish,

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Speaker 1: and that was the dynamic at the time. When things

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Speaker 1: started going better, the bankers started pushing people who get

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Speaker 1: into catfish because in the South, your road croft prices

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Speaker 1: were really low and there were people with land and

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Speaker 1: they wanted to get something better out of that land.

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Speaker 1: And catfish farming your real preaker back in those days

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Speaker 1: that a guy could raise uh, five six thousand pounds

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Speaker 1: of catfish for I don't know for a year he

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Speaker 1: could he could sell that much catfish compared to a

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Speaker 1: cotton field or sworbing field or something that returned was

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Speaker 1: much higher. So that was a real financial incentive to

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Speaker 1: get into it. So I don't know of that answers

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Speaker 1: your question. It's just a simple matter of people wanting

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Speaker 1: to get more out of their farm, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of the more diverse to five they continue to do

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Speaker 1: a crops, but here here are some cat fish that

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Speaker 1: they could grow and it could really turn some money

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Speaker 1: at the time. Um, it's uh, it was just another

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Speaker 1: market to get into for a farmer. I feel like

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Speaker 1: the detail about the bankers encouraging farmers to get into

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Speaker 1: catfish is a sort of crucial classic stop on any bubble.

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Speaker 1: I want to take a quick break for a word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor, but Knowledge to Work and grow your

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Speaker 1: c i T dot com. Put Knowledge to Work and

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00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 1: we are back with Mike McCall. He's the editor of

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Speaker 1: the Catfish Journal and he is the author of the

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Speaker 1: book Catfish days from bell Zona to the Big Apple.

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Speaker 1: We are talking about the time, the true story of

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Speaker 1: when America actually had a catfish bubble, mostly in the South.

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Speaker 1: I want to get very soon to the sort of

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Speaker 1: bursting of the bubble. But before we do that, I

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Speaker 1: want to ask you, um, you know, in any in

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Speaker 1: any great boom or bubble or gold rush or whatever

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Speaker 1: whatever it is, You're always going to find some colorful,

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Speaker 1: larger than life characters who really defined the moment. From

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Speaker 1: your view, who are some of the most interesting people

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Speaker 1: the prime movers of the of the catfish boom. Well,

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Speaker 1: in the Missippi Delta, Uh, with major agricultural area, there

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Speaker 1: were some some interesting folks who got into that business.

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Speaker 1: That there are also a lot of people who came

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Speaker 1: from outside of the business and thought, Nick mindy. If

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Speaker 1: you recall how I started off the book Joe with

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Speaker 1: the group up in New York that decided they could

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Speaker 1: see the growth of the industry, they could see the

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Speaker 1: slick advertising. This is late eighties. They jumped into it,

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Speaker 1: raised twenty million dollars and so came down the South

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Speaker 1: Texas built a farm, builth process and plant went straight

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Speaker 1: down the tube. So, Uh, there was that kind of

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Speaker 1: dynamic going on in too far as individuals. Uh, I

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Speaker 1: have to be careful about making the names. So I'll

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Speaker 1: try to walk around that UM. Money was flowing everywhere

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Speaker 1: back in the heyday, and I said that nineteen eighties

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Speaker 1: were probably the heyday up into around nineteen nineties. People

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Speaker 1: were spending money in any way they can that the

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Speaker 1: profits were so big. There are lots of parties, there

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Speaker 1: were lots of there are lots of traveling UM there

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Speaker 1: were I don't know how to explain it. That it

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Speaker 1: was just money was going everywhere, and and that there

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Speaker 1: appeared to be no end to it too. When they

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Speaker 1: looked around one day and realized that they couldn't sell

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Speaker 1: the fish. They didn't have money to buy feed because

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Speaker 1: they weren't selling any fish, and then boom. I guess

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Speaker 1: that's when things started around two thousand, started going down

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Speaker 1: down the hill. So Mike, what was the exact tipping

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Speaker 1: point for things to go downhill? Was it just over

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Speaker 1: production or was there something else? Basically two things, Uh,

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Speaker 1: production was overshot the market, and then you had cheap

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Speaker 1: fish from age to started coming in mainly from Vietnam,

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Speaker 1: UH south from China, and they took over the markets. UH. Normally,

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Speaker 1: when the industry would overproduce, eventually things would tighten up,

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Speaker 1: supply would tighten up, and they just keep on going.

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Speaker 1: But this time they lost sales to the to the

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Speaker 1: restaurant chains, to the food service companies, and it just

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Speaker 1: it just started going down the hill. And it took

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Speaker 1: ten years to work out. Those inventories in the pond

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Speaker 1: and people drying their ponds. They couldn't do it anymore.

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Speaker 1: Feed prices has got buried high, and they just couldn't

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Speaker 1: They couldn't hold on. That's why we lost over half

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Speaker 1: the industry. At some point, you know your bank is

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Speaker 1: gonna shut you down if you don't shut it down yourself.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any stats in terms of how big

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Speaker 1: the either overall or in a specifically in a state

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Speaker 1: like Mississippi, how much acreage was devoted to catfish farming

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Speaker 1: at the peak, and how much it's come down to now.

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Speaker 1: In Mississippi, they had about a hundred and ten thousand

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Speaker 1: acres of water catfish production and two thousand two, two

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Speaker 1: thousands three UH today they're down to turn five thousand

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Speaker 1: acres from Mississippi, So they went from a hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: acres to thirty five thousand acres. Uh. In two thousand sixteen,

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Speaker 1: Arkansas tracy went from thirty eight thousand acres down to

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Speaker 1: less than five thousand acres. So, uh, people were just,

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Speaker 1: you know, they just couldn't hang on. They had to

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Speaker 1: do something. So what exactly happened to the farmers? And

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming, you know, you were talking about, um, the

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Speaker 1: bubble at its heyday, You're talking about parties and lots

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Speaker 1: of money flowing. So I'm assuming there were some people

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Speaker 1: who made, you know, a great fortune from catfish farming.

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Speaker 1: What happened to them when the bubble burst? Ages had

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Speaker 1: to get out and uh, you know some of them

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Speaker 1: had other means of income. They were they were growing

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Speaker 1: the road crops. You know, the grain prices got buried. Huh,

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Speaker 1: they could still make money open that the processing plants

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Speaker 1: probably fared a little better than the farmers did in

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Speaker 1: those days. Then I know one case where an owner

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Speaker 1: of catfish plant in Alabama made in the worst year

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Speaker 1: for the farmer in twenty five years, he made six

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Speaker 1: million dollars that year. It actually turned around and Solvo

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Speaker 1: company a year or two later and maybe a bunch

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Speaker 1: more money. Uh. So there was still some money to

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Speaker 1: be made, but for the for the ranking style farmers,

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Speaker 1: they just had to get out. Some of them lost homes,

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Speaker 1: you know, and the banks took over some of them.

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Speaker 1: Some of the farms were converted to wat reserve programs

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Speaker 1: where they can make a little money off of that

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Speaker 1: and try to go was to return to the land

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Speaker 1: to its original purpose of the government will pay a

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Speaker 1: little bit for that. Uh, some were turning into hunting,

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Speaker 1: hunting clubs and stuff, and then but yet some of

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Speaker 1: them are just sitting there nothing, They've grown up and

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Speaker 1: weeds and uh, it's just it's just kind of sad

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Speaker 1: to see it like that is a that is depressing image.

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Speaker 1: It kind of reminds me of you know, some of

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Speaker 1: the crazy boom time housing developments right before the housing

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Speaker 1: crash in Florida and California. And then revisiting two thousand nine,

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Speaker 1: two thousand ten in a state of disarray with weeds

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Speaker 1: and uh, decay and everything. We gotta you know, wrap

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Speaker 1: it up here. But finally, so what's the state of

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Speaker 1: the industry right now? Is it growing? Is it stable?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're still chronicling, You're still chronicling catfish at

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Speaker 1: the Catfish Journal. So what is the equilibrium that had

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Speaker 1: settled in that well, it took roughly ten years to

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Speaker 1: work out this oversupplosis and for people to make the

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Speaker 1: exits from the business. I'd say about two thousand twelve,

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Speaker 1: things begin to stabilize at its peak of industry process

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Speaker 1: six hundred sixty million pounds and around two thousand twelves

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Speaker 1: at this light the three hundred million pounds, and since

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Speaker 1: two thousand twelve it's sort of gyrating between three hundred

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Speaker 1: million pounds and maybe three than thirty million pounds. So

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Speaker 1: with a tight supply, prices have come up for the

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Speaker 1: farmer and the processor. So there's a there's a people

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Speaker 1: league that's been achieved at this point. I don't think

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Speaker 1: we'll see uh much growth. You might see a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I'm hoping that you want to see it go down.

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Speaker 1: In your father there are a few farms that operated buston.

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Speaker 1: They're they're all family owned and in the family business.

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Speaker 1: If there's nobody to come along behind you to take

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Speaker 1: it over, basically shut it down. And there's a little

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Speaker 1: bit of BAF that's going on too. Mike, I have

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Speaker 1: one more quick question. Um, I don't like fish, but

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Speaker 1: I know Joe does, and I'm sure some of our

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Speaker 1: listeners do. Where's the best place in the South to

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Speaker 1: eat catfish? I don't know if I can jump into

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Speaker 1: that too controversial part of gross bred spot their places

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Speaker 1: all over and I believe in the Middendorf story of

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Speaker 1: the book, which which probably has introduced cat sistem more

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Speaker 1: people because it's the gateway in the walls. Um so Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's some of the great places and something what's what's

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Speaker 1: the name of the place in New Orleans again? Uh,

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Speaker 1: Middendorfs talked about them in the book that it's uh,

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Speaker 1: and you might not have got to that point, but

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Speaker 1: it's it's out. It's north of New Orleans, orders fifty

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Speaker 1: five and Mansac, Louisiana, a very famous place that opened

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Speaker 1: in nineteen four and it's uh. They have special fan

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Speaker 1: fried cat fish that that it's wonderful the place and

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00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 1: the missing something that about my lin fish. Americans have

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00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 1: not fish eaters, unforceds. That's part of the problem. Compared

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Speaker 1: to most every country in the world, Americans acting that's

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Speaker 1: a lower random of scale on hitting fish. For example,

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Speaker 1: we offerually fifteen pounds per capita. That's everybody that's shrimp,

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Speaker 1: ten captors everybody. Just for example, under just more a

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Speaker 1: fast that amount probably about thirty five pounds per capita annually. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then you get into other countries UH and much

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Speaker 1: higher uh in the Ice and Japan is about a

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Speaker 1: hundred twenty pounds. So you know, people one more pound

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Speaker 1: of fish per year in the US that Big Game Center. Well, hopefully,

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Speaker 1: hopefully today's episode does a little bit in furthering America's

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Speaker 1: increased consumption of fish. Mike McCall, the editor of The

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Speaker 1: Catfish Journal and the author of Catfish Days From bell

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Speaker 1: Zona to the Big Apple, Thank you so much for

401
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: joining us on the Odd Lots podcast. Fascinating story, really

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00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: interesting book. I appreciate you coming up. Thank you so

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00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: much so, Tracy, I think we really have to do

404
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: Odd Lots road trip to Biddendorff's in Czeck, Louisiana. Oh,

405
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: I am so there. I will even eat fried catfish

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00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 1: in order to you know, have you had fried catfish,

407
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: because a lot of like I have family members who

408
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: don't like fish, but they totally make an exception for

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00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: fried catfish because it's not fishy when you eat you know,

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00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,479
Speaker 1: it's like it's just good fried food. I think, like

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00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: for me, the thing about fish, it's more the idea,

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00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: it's more than like scaly, slimy fishes that you are eating.

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00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: Catfish isn't like that. So anyway, I'm trying to get

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Speaker 1: over it. Uh, I did go to your house, so

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00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: you'll you'll have to invite me over for more fish

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00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: at your place. Sounds good. But also I do really

417
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: like that story because it makes me think that there's

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Speaker 1: probably numerous sort of booms and bubbles and gold rushes

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Speaker 1: and whatever you want to characterize it as sort of

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00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: that we don't we never hear about. We know about

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00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: the big ones, whether it's you know, stocks or internet,

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00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: uh the Internet bubble, or even beanie babies, but I

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Speaker 1: suspect there's just numerous more out there for the finding. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know what I was thinking about while he was

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Speaker 1: talking about catfish. Um, do you remember a couple of

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00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: years back there was a lot of talk about buying

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00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: alpacas and farming alpacas like that was that was the

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Speaker 1: only sort of agricultural equivalent that I could think about.

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Speaker 1: But the thing I love about all these bubbles is

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Speaker 1: the psychology is you know it varies a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but it's almost always the same. It's you know, people

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Speaker 1: get kind of fluoried in by the promise of higher returns,

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Speaker 1: and eventually there's so much money pouring in that you

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Speaker 1: reach some sort of tipping point. Um. I guess when

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Speaker 1: you get to the tipping point, that's that's the most

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Speaker 1: interesting thing, right, And if you get the timing right,

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Speaker 1: then you can become a millionaire. And if you get

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Speaker 1: the timing wrong, then you lose everything. Also, how awesome

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Speaker 1: do you think like a catfish party was in the eighties? Like,

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Speaker 1: don't like? I just want to be at one of

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Speaker 1: those parties so bad? Right now, So you've read the book, right,

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Speaker 1: are there photos in the book? I want to see

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Speaker 1: photos of a catfish party. They are more farms, photos

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Speaker 1: of farms, not so much photos of the parties themselves.

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Speaker 1: But in my mind they're the most fun parties in

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Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, I'd love to see that, all right. Well,

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Speaker 1: on that note, so Tracy, you have a standing offer

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Speaker 1: to come eat a catfish anytime. I'll make some But

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Speaker 1: until then, This has been another episode of the Odd

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Speaker 1: Lots podcast. I'm Joe Wisenthal. You can follow me on

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00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: Twitter at the Stalwart and I'm Tracy Alloway. I'm on

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00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: Twitter at Tracy Alloway and you can follow our fabulous producer,

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00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: Sarah Patterson on Twitter at Sarah pat With Two Teas.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Put knowledge to work and grow your

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