WEBVTT - EP 300: Rich & Regular ft. Julien and Kiersten 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:09.039 Hey, Hey, vafam, it's Mandy here and I cannot wait 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:12.240 to introduce you to this week's guest. If y'all don't 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.080 know about my new friends, Julian and Kirsten Saunders, let 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:16.880 me tell you a little bit about them. They are 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.200 the Atlanta based yes my hometown, I love it, Atlanta 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.759 based co creators of the popular lifestyle blog and brand 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.040 Rich and Regular. They come with so much experience, y'all. 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:30.680 They paid off two hundred thousand dollars of debt in 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.760 just five years, and after they did that, they actually 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:36.960 walked away from their careers in the hospitality and marketing 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:41.519 marketing industries and quit before the age of forty. Since then, 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.760 they launched their popular web series called Money on the Table, 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:47.680 which use guys can check out at Richregular dot com, 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:51.800 and they also host their our podcast, Brother and Sister. 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:54.080 They host the Rich and Regular podcast, which you can 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:56.640 check out right after you listen to this one. Okay, 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:00.760 that's your assignment. Go check out Rich and Regular and Kirsten, 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:03.240 thank you so much for joining Brown Ambition. 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.160 You so much here. 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.680 Yes, I'm excited, so y'all wrote an entire The reason 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.120 we're talking today, I mean There's been so many reasons 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.120 to have y'all on, but this is a very special 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:19.720 episode because y'all are launching your first book, right Yes, yes, yes, 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.160 they call cashing out. Call it yet the book Baby, 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:26.560 we called cashing out Win the Wealth Game by walking Away. 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:28.600 When I saw this title, I was like, yes, yes, 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:31.319 like this is my time, this is my favorite. Let's 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.399 talk about quidding. Yeah, yes, And I was just saying, like, 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:36.520 as a couple, as a married couple, you guys also 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:39.320 share a son named Bo. What a beautiful, cute little name. 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:42.360 I'm just amazed because my husband and I feel like 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:44.880 we cannot do the dishes together, we can't clean the 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:48.400 house together without getting into some kind of philosophical debate 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:50.480 about how to do it. And y'all wrote an entire 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:55.000 book together. What was that like? As husband and wife? 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:56.840 It was challenging. It was a slow start. 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:01.040 Originally, we tried to write it together, like every chapter, 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:03.800 kind of sitting together and writing, and that process took 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:05.960 entirely too long, and then we. 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:07.880 Broke it up. Like you write a chapter, I write 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:08.359 a chapter. 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:10.799 But we have very different voices and we have very 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.720 different perspectives, and so a lot of the work was 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:17.079 trying to find the shared voice and then figure out 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:19.400 kind of how to get all the chapters done. 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:21.480 But all in all, it was a good experience. 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:23.840 It was just there's not a lot of co authors 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:25.760 out there, so it was just a bunch of trial 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:27.519 and error in us trying to figure out. 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:28.520 What works for us. 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:33.120 Well, there's co authors then, but it's not. I can't 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:35.280 think of a married couple that i've interview who's written 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:37.560 a book together. That's such a different dynamic. It's one 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.280 thing when you've hired a ghost writer or someone to 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:42.239 kind of download your thoughts and then they're going to 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.000 kind of put it in your voice and whatnot. But 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:46.880 I mean, congrats, So what made you, guys for your 0:02:46.919 --> 0:02:49.480 first book want to write this book in particular? 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.560 You know, there are so many reasons why. I'll just 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:56.160 give you one of the more recent ones. And this 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:57.960 is not that recent, but it was like a couple 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:02.840 months ago. I remember sitting in the doctor's office taking 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:05.840 my mom to the doctor, and I remember waiting in 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:07.880 the waiting room and there was an older gentleman, a 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.320 black man. He might've been around sixty five years old, 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:12.800 and we were in the thick of writing the book 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:14.680 at that process, but I had already kind of thought 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.440 about it, and he was sitting there reading Rich Dad, 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.680 Poor Dad, and I was reminded because I hadn't thought 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:22.280 about the book in a really long time, but I 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:24.920 was reminded that that book was still relevant and that 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.600 it was a cultural reference point for a lot of people, 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:29.560 Like when they think money books is like literally one 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:31.800 of the first ones that they think about. And I 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:33.720 was just thinking about that. I was thinking about the 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:36.280 moment that we are in, not just in terms of 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:39.280 the Great Recession, but also you know what's been coined 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.360 as a social reckoning or just this great a sense 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.760 of awareness in terms of representation, and I felt like 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.800 we deserved something like that. I felt like I could 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:49.839 have used something like that leading up to the early 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.560 stages of our corporate career. I think Churrisen feels the 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.840 same way. And so we know the power of telling 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:59.280 our stories and people seeing themselves and hearing it in 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:01.160 our own voice, and we just knew that that was 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:04.440 something that when we enjoyed doing and we're really passionate about, 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:07.720 and so we were willing to undertake this process and 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:09.200 we're grateful that we were able to do it. 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.720 Yeah, so together y'all paid off two hundred thousand dollars 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.920 of debt. And you did that prior to leaving your jobs, right, 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:20.720 so clearly working like having a nine to five was instrumental. 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.720 And you guys building you know, your wealth and able 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.440 to pay off that debt. What was your strategy there? 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:29.000 Was it just you know, every extra dollar we are 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:31.279 going to be putting toward this debt. And like what 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:33.600 kinds of debt were they as a couple that y'all 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:34.200 were tackling. 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:35.640 Yeah, it was a combination. 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.360 The lion's share of the two hundred thousand was our mortgage, 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:42.200 but it was also car notes, student loan, tax debt, 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:43.360 credit card. 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.920 Pretty much, any kind of debt was yeah, I might 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:47.640 be forgetting that. 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:48.920 Yeah you said that tax debt. 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.960 Yeah, so you include so you paid off your whole house? 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:55.280 Yeah, we did, which sounds crazy given be. 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.360 Done in georgiown right, we had a ten thousand and 0:04:58.360 --> 0:04:59.200 eight priced house. 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:03.200 Yeah, oh okay, it would get the discount post housing 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:08.160 market crash, I hope, yeah right, yeah, okay, but I 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:09.640 start a bunch of different types. 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.119 Paying off our debt as giving ourselves a raise. 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:13.160 We had two choices. 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.000 You could either kind of go hard at work and 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.119 try to make more money and get all the extra 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:20.800 responsibility that comes with that, which we did, but we 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:25.360 also spent just as much energy time strategic thinking and 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.120 conversation around the idea that if we paid off our debt, 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:30.680 if we could just get rid of a couple of 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.040 these expenses, you're talking about a couple extra thousand dollars 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.560 every single month, And in order to make that leap 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.000 in the job market, you would have either had to 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.400 pivot out of your career choice, out of our career 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.680 choice and into another company, or take on an extraordinary 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.880 amount of responsibility. And so we looked at paying off 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.520 debt as a lifestyle choice for us, and that's how 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:53.280 we tackled it. As soon as the money would come 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.320 in through our every bi weeekly paychecks, we would shave 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:58.320 off the top and we did a little bit of 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.640 everything in terms of methodology. Did the envelope system, we 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:04.280 did the avalanche method, we did the snowball method, we 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:08.040 did zero based budgeting, and we tried everything, and they 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:09.960 worked in different periods of our lives, and we just 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.839 kept trying until eventually it was it was gone. 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:15.760 And you were raising because your son is about as 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.000 old as it took you to pay off that debt. 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:20.599 Well, he was born. 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:23.200 He was born in the last quarter, so he was 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:26.200 born in twenty seventeen, and then we finished paying off 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:28.640 the debt the same in. 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:29.239 The year after. 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:29.760 Yeah. 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:33.680 Yeah, so when you were so, were you guys making 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.520 big career moves to increase your income to help you 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:38.560 paid on that debt? Was that one of the strategies 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:40.320 that you used for. 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.919 More sopha Kissen And it was interesting because we tackled 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.280 that as a team as well, and so as we 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:48.919 were looking at upward mobility, we both had a shot. 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.080 But she had a much better shot at getting that 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.960 big raise. I was much more interested in learning and 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:57.919 developing skills that I knew I could use outside of 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.680 the workforce. And so while we were tagged teaming debt, 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:02.360 even after we paid off the debt, it was like, 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.360 all right, how do we still continue to squeeze as 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.599 much juice as we can out of this job, but 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.200 also recognize that there's an endpoint and we need to 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.360 make sure that we're setting ourselves up to pivot out 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:15.560 of that successfully. And so at that point. With respect 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.440 to my job, I was handling it, but I wasn't 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:20.840 going as hard as I was in prior years. I 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.440 wasn't necessarily gunning for a promotion, which felt really good 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:26.920 because at that point we'd already you know, paid off 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.120 our debt, and when you start thinking about, like, what's 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:30.920 the real value in getting a job, it kind of 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.840 felt like that added responsibility was going to take away 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:35.880 from my at home life, It was going to take 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.680 away from my ability to build something outside of that 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:40.360 nine to five. And so at that point I was 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:44.240 much more interested in our real estate portfolio in this new, 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:48.560 greater world of content creation, which for us was very 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:49.400 new at the time. 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:52.280 Yeah. So, Kirsten, what did that look like for you? 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:54.440 Going for promotion or did you quit for a new 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:56.040 opportunity that paid you a lot more? 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.600 It was going for promotions. I did quit right before 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:01.160 I went from Eternity. 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:04.320 Leave, but I ultimately did not because they gave me 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:05.640 a raise to keep me. 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:08.000 But yeah, it was a series of promotions. 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.920 I had found a section of the company that had 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:16.320 very specific skill sets and required a lot of institutional 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.680 and experiential knowledge, and so I just kind of dedicated 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:22.920 myself to an area of the business and gradually moved 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:24.480 up the more that it grew. 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:25.560 But it was good. 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:27.960 It was good until it wasn't, which is typically how 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:30.800 these things go. I was promoted quite a bit and 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:34.000 then a reorg hit, which is pretty common in corporate America. 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.160 We talk about this in the book, that the average 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:38.920 tenure of a CEO these days is about five years. 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:41.120 And so when you think about, and I'm sure some 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:45.320 of the listeners have experienced this, how disruptive reorganizations can be, 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:47.640 especially if you're in a place where you like your boss, 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.560 you like your team, you like your workload, and then 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:52.440 all of a sudden, everything changes. 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:53.560 And that's what happened with me. 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:55.760 I liked where I was, and then all of a 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.040 sudden we got shifted and the priorities changed and I 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.559 needed to be and places, and I needed to support 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.720 China and Europe, and so I was taking four am 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:08.440 calls and seven pm calls and it just wasn't sustainable 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:10.560 for me. I felt like I had learned everything that 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.600 I needed to learn from the job and it was 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:15.520 time to cash out. 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.720 All right, So you both, but you're was your plan 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:21.040 eventually to walk away the same way, Julian, Like you 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.640 kind of knew, okay, I'm going to be, you know, 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.040 heading on this entrepreneurial path. Were you kind of just 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:27.439 waiting for the right moment, Kirsten. 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:28.000 Yeah. 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.400 The plan was to hit a number in our bank 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:33.520 account or in our investment portfolio before we walked away, 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.760 and we were on track to hit that probably mid 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.040 twenty twenty one. This was, of course, before we knew 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.679 there was a global pandemic coming, but we were on 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:45.320 track to hit it mid last year, and I. 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.199 Had started to feel the pressure to. 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.560 Leave, or the decision to leave, by the end of 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:53.400 twenty nineteen, so about two years ahead of schedule. But 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:56.200 we already had our business going, and so the question 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:58.240 was did I think I could make up for lost 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:00.960 time or at least get back a sense of quality 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.920 of life if I focused on this through twenty you know, 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:05.960 for the next couple of years. And so that's that 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:07.440 was kind of the catalyst of leaving. 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:10.640 So you were definitely part of the great reshuffling, the 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:13.360 Great resignation. I quit of twenty twenty. 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.760 Three weeks before the pandemic started, and it was. 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:17.800 The whole trendsetter. 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.840 The start of the start of what they're calling the 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.520 Great resignation. I'm wondering is if like the initial round 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.240 of furloughs where everybody was just kind of laid off 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.839 versus actually leaving on their own. I think I was 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:33.400 ahead of that curve of people just being like, you know, 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:35.520 f this, I'm going to figure it out on my own. 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:37.960 Well that's the thing, Like they talk about the great resignation, 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:40.559 but if you were approaching your career, I feel like 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:43.280 the correct way we you should be looking to leave 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:45.640 or move up and move around, you know, through your career. 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.480 So people act like, oh, it's a great resignation of trend. 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:50.280 I'm like, no, people are always going to be quitting, 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:53.080 which means we have job security. Kristen Julian and I like, okay, 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:54.960 people are always going to need some guidance when it 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:58.000 comes to their career. So I don't feel at all 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.840 like even my business as a career coach, like there's 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:02.560 going to come a time when it's going to dry up. 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:05.079 People are not going to be making career transitions, you know, 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.080 and getting to that place of being stalled. Nah, y'all 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.920 talk about something that's really interesting, the fifteen year career 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.000 and sort of how people can or should prioritize their 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.520 goals through each stage of their career so that they 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:20.280 can quit an under fifteen years. Is that right? Can 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:21.000 y'all talk about that? 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:21.760 Yeah? 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:23.960 So the fifteen year career was really just trying to 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:26.120 disrupt the construct that a lot of us have that 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:29.840 careers are this lifelong pursuit that you just continue to 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.800 work on it and it's a huge part of your identity, like. 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:35.959 You lead with your career, which you do who you are, and. 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:38.640 So the fifteen year career is actually encouraging people to 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:41.120 look at careers as a phase in your life the 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.680 same way we look at K through twelve education or 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:47.080 a bachelor's degree or an advanced degree if you if 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.760 you're a doctor or a lawyer, where in a stated 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:53.720 period of time, you're there to accomplish a goal and 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:55.480 then you're there to move on and that could be 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.160 to another career, or it could be to early retirement 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.320 or entrepreneurship. But we bring it up into three phases. 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.080 The first five years, if you have debt, it's really 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.080 about continuing to live frugally and treat that debt as 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.160 an emergency and pay it down. The second five years 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:14.000 is really about skill acquisition, like Julian was saying, acquiring 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.800 skills that are valuable in a market outside of just 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.760 your employer. And then the last five years is really 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:22.800 trying to figure out how to monetize those skills and 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:28.400 move on and actually translate them into capital, into actual dollars, 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:30.720 and then ramp up your investments while you're doing that. 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:34.760 And so the idea is that after fifteen years, you know, 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:36.520 you should be able to check the box and say 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.240 I'm good here, and you might continue. You could decide 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.680 that you want to stay in the latter phase because 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:45.120 you are enjoying making great money and having a skill 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:48.000 that's in demand. Or again you can decide to cash 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:49.920 out and just kind of do what you want to do. 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:50.360 With your time. 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:52.920 Yeah, and this is also assuming that you're investing along 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:53.760 the way right correct. 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:55.480 In addition important part YEA. 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.880 And doing all all those things, you're building an investment 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.439 portfolio or or whatever it is right. It could be 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:03.640 sitting in a brokerage account. It could be that you're 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:08.360 focusing on funding your retirement account up front, but you're 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.760 ideally putting yourself in a position so that at the 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.360 end of this period, you have an option to Heresin's point. 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.000 You don't have to walk away and go sit pinicolatas. 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:18.880 You may have the option to do that, but you 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:22.640 could decide to transition and focus on being you know, 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:26.120 the president of the HOA or someone that does something 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.800 in your county or whatever it is, any number of 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.319 things that you could do to fill your time outside 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:31.679 of just. 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:36.640 Please don't Why is that the dream? 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:37.439 Say that? 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:40.160 Because imagine a world where more of us are actually 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:41.920 able to do that job effectively. 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:46.000 So you know, maybe I just can't think of the 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.800 more scum of the earth than like HOA presidents. Why 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.840 are they so problematic? Sorry, you distracted me. 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:56.640 You distracted me back getting back to your point, Juliet, 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:58.800 It's funny because that when you talk about the fifteen 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:00.680 year stage, I think I'm in like year eleven of 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:04.640 my career post college and wait, how old am I? 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.520 I'm trying it's more than eleven years. It's like twelve 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.920 or thirteen. But anyway, and it has sort of lined 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.400 up in that I didn't approach it, you know, systematically 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:15.040 that but I'm kind of like, oh, I'm in that 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:17.400 I was in the past five years acquiring all these 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:19.640 skills and then now I'm on my own, like you 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:23.080 guys are monetizing them and creating this entrepreneur you know, 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.720 entrepreneurship journey for myself. So yeah, I definitely, I mean 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:28.640 and would endorse that. And Julian and I want to 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:30.160 talk to you. So what were some I know you 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.800 mentioned blogging, YouTube, video editing, you know, I'm sure those 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.360 types of skills, but what other skills were you leaning 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.440 on or looking to build that? And you said real 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:41.480 estate too, So can you talk about some of those 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.080 skills that you were acquiring so that set yourself up 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.320 so that rich and regular could be, you know, y'all's 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:47.440 primary source of income. 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:47.960 Sure. 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:50.480 So the primary skill that I was focused on building 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:53.640 was around marketing and branding. Part of that was because 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.720 that's what I studied in college. But I learned very 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:01.280 quickly how to make ideas grow, how to curate ideas, 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:05.760 how to communicate them. And so I spent that last 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.800 three maybe four years of my career sort of a 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:12.760 part of that organization focusing more so on learning, Right, 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:16.480 It wasn't about trying to get the skill set or 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:17.840 the job that I knew was going to help me 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:19.920 get a promotion. It was about what are the skills 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:24.440 that I can learn dealing with agencies, learning the fundamentals 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:26.680 of building a brand from people who've done it with 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:30.720 world class brands, Understanding the data, all of those things, 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:35.400 creative storytelling to your point about videos and photography, like 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:39.040 all of that kind of stuff, and even influencer marketing. 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.880 And it's actually a tiny part of our book, and 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.400 it was one of the things that really made me say, actually, 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.440 I think I could do this was because at that 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:50.360 earlier stage, it was like year seven for me, seven 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.320 out of the ten. Was the company that I was 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.880 working for decided to test out this little thing call 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.440 influencer marketing. And I was like, I don't know, but 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:02.080 I remember cutting a really check to cover this thing. 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.840 And long story short, we paid a guy like ten 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.800 thousand dollars to take a vacation with his kids, eat 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:12.600 at a restaurant, and basically just go have a good 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.880 time because it was a hospitality company. And every now 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:18.800 and then, just for motivation, I go to his website 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:21.000 because it's like a really old school website and it 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.320 still has a ticker on it, and it's like one 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:26.520 hundred and sixty seven page views, and so for me 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:28.480 it was like motivation. It's like, oh wow, this guy 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:31.320 was able to do something incredible. He's not a celebrity, 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:33.880 but it was just very intriguing for me. And so 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:37.680 all of those skills and points in that particular story 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:39.560 was enough for me to say, Okay, as I'm thinking 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.120 about my own quality of life, do I believe that 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.440 if I stepped outside of this world that is very 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.120 comfortable and familiar, that I'd be able to figure it out? 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.840 And the answer was yes, because I'd acquired enough of 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:51.320 those skills that I knew that I could do some 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:52.360 of these things on my own. 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:55.280 I love that, and that's such a good message for 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.200 anyone working nine to five and feeling like even if 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.400 you feel like you don't have tons of career progress there, 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.600 you still have access to other people and like free 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.320 education if you're willing to chat with people and find 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.960 out about them. And that's what I call it being entrepreneurial, 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:13.040 you know, kind of moving within your within your zone 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:15.880 at work, and what can you take advantage of There's 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.960 there's intellectual property there that people have that they can 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:21.640 share with you, and you can really learn and leverage 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:23.919 that and I think that was so I mean, so 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:26.520 smart of you and so wise, and not enough people 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:29.560 working day to day think to actually like check in 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:31.879 with such and such, even if you're in product you know, 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:34.720 or check in with the marketing team or advertising or 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:37.000 whatever you know, or if you're in vice versa, you're 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.760 in your marketing to check in with the product team 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:42.679 how to build a product, a physical or digital product, 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:47.040 and how all that works while you've got the free access. 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:49.200 Sorry, I was just gonna say it was a huge 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.520 aha moment for me because I'd had to get over 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.160 the hump that you can't learn about something just because 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:55.760 you aren't in that role. 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:56.320 Right. 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:58.440 I had to give myself permission to say, actually, you 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.919 can learn about whatever you want now. It's quite honestly 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.159 a little difficult to do in certain roles and in 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:07.159