WEBVTT - David Porter 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.559 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sweat Godcat. 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:18.200 My guest today is legendary songwriter David Ugo. Where's a 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:19.720 new book, The Soul Mayor? 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:20.960 David? 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:22.520 Why this book? Why? Now? 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:27.040 Well, there are a couple of numbers. One is eighty 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:32.320 four and one is uh. The clock is ticking, and 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:36.120 so for that reason, I wanted to be sure that 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:39.239 the wonderful experience I've had being in this business called 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.479 music and what has done for me, to me and 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:46.440 through me, I wanted to be sure that my fans 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:50.000 and grandkids and family would have something to keep that 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:53.000 signifies they would have heard it from me. And the 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:55.160 book gave me the opportunity to do just that. 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.880 Bob, Okay, where do you live right now? 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:02.639 I live in Memphis, Tennessee. 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:05.920 So you're still in Memphis. The book goes on a 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.720 lot about Memphis. Let's start with how is Memphis different 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:11.399 today from when you grew up? 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:19.160 Well, I think with any city there is progress, there 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:23.400 are changes. For the most part. If you're in love 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:25.080 with the place that you've been all of your life, 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:28.679 you look can see the beauty. And with any city 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.840 there are challenges and circumstances that cause you to wonder, 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:35.759 but you realize that in this too she pass away 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:37.600 as an old statement, but it's a lot of truth 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.520 to it. So Memphis is quite different than it was 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:42.840 when I was younger. I was born in the forties, 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:45.720 so you can imagine what that was for a kid 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:49.080 born in the Deep South with circumstances that were not 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:52.920 favorable for him, yet he had to go forward. And 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:56.080 so being a part of that kind of initial phase, 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:59.440 the only way was up. In Memphis has shown great 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:01.520 deal of proper regress through the years, and at this 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:04.840 particular time it is a major progress from where it 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:07.720 used to be in many positive ways. And then there 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:12.200 are growths in areas outside of music that are very 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:16.280 positive as well. So I'm really really proud of this 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.720 city and what it has done, as I mentioned earlier, 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:24.160 for me and for those that I care about, and 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:27.040 it's done wonderful things for many many people. And I've 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:29.840 seen those kinds of circumstances and action as well. 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:35.119 Okay, I've been to Memphis, and I always read about it. 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:38.720 It's in Tennessee, people may or may not realize, across 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:42.440 the river from Arkansas and very close to Mississippi, but 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:46.440 it's the same state as Nashville, and they're radically different. 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:49.920 Can you tell us what makes Memphis different from Nashville. 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:57.280 Well, I'm not one to get into bashing any city, 0:02:57.720 --> 0:02:59.880 and certainly not a city that's in the state. Even 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.440 there are some things inside of me that says hmm, 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.360 but uh, I I just feel that that there is 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:12.000 a a soulfulness, there is a persona that is unique 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:17.119 uh for Memphis. Uh there is a a spirit of 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:23.399 samples of of of kind of all around. You mentioned Mississippi, Arkansas, 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.680 and when whatever there are samples of of of of 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.080 of things all around that plays a part in the 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:34.000 meshing the melting pot of what makes for an interesting place. 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.040 So there there are things that you you experienced in 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:40.360 an ongoing way that was not like yesterday, but certainly 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:42.560 you have no way of knowing if it will be 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:48.360 similar to tomorrow. So Memphis affords you that kind of of 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:53.600 of of kind of potential. But also the musical influence 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:57.480 of Memphis versus what what uh uh has been historically 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:01.800 in Nashville is quite different in in respect that Memphis 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:04.400 has never run away from the value of the blues, 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:06.720 never run away from the value of R and B. 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.480 Never run away from the value of the significant contribution 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.000 of blacks in not only in the country this country, 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:16.960 but in and through music, and so just that embracing 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.960 of it that became a factor that motivates other young kids, 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:24.320 blacks and whites with aspirations to do music, that that's 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:26.800 a good area to touch upon. And so Memphis makes 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.880 a vast contribution to the to the significance of why 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.920 there is they just intimilate for instance, or Charlie Rich 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:37.760 for instance, or in Elvis Presley for other instances. I mean, 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.720 but that's just part of the magic of what makes 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.000 Memphis unique, the soulfulness that's never been compromised. 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:51.000 Okay, to what degree was there racism growing up? And 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:52.839 what degree were you aware of it? 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:59.760 Well? Uh, to what degree there was racism? And what 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:05.440 When I was very young, I didn't understand what to 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:10.760 call it. I just knew for some reason that people 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:14.560 who didn't look like me thought that they were better 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:21.560 than me. The interesting thing about that was, as children 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:25.040 or young people, you don't know how to define better 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:27.000 because you're living from day to day, growing each and 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:32.240 every day. But when someone gives you a spirit of 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.960 non acceptance, don't be close to me, don't touch me, 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.000 or don't drink from this water fountain of that kind 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:44.920 of thing that tells you that they have a problem, 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:48.360 not you, even as a kid, because I had to 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.720 scratch my head in wonder what these people who think 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:55.719 they're better do they ever use the restroom? Do theyny 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.400 what toilet paper is? I mean, is there a difference? 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:04.120 It's just it's just it just made a young kid 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:08.760 wonder and not necessarily call it for what it was, 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:11.760 because you were not clear on what it was. But 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.960 you know there was a difference. And that was the 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:19.200 experience for quite a while growing up. And then the 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:23.080 music on the radio. When I started listening to the radio, 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:28.479 initially I was hearing you know, Pat Boone and Frank 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:35.640 Sinatra and artists of that il before nineteen forty seven, 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.479 forty eight, when I was like heading tw what eight 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.000 and nine years old. Then here comes a radio station 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:45.279 called WDIA, and that gave me a sense of significance 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:51.920 that made me one understand what race was, and two 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:56.400 understand that this radio station was playing the music that 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.800 was relatable and more digestible for people who look like 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.640 me and the other music that I was hearing that 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:05.720 I had to adapt to and appreciate, was really not 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:08.599 necessarily for me, but it was something to hear. But 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.800 I respected the value of good music, so I enjoyed 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:13.960 that as a youngstery as well. Because I didn't know 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:16.840 any better than when I started hearing w DI. I 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:22.280 I didn't know that I like WDI like that. So 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:26.520 how did you discover you? W dia A and tell 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:29.440 us more about the programming, what the DJs were like, 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:31.920 and what the songs were that they were playing. Well. 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:36.600 WDA was the first African American radio station in America. 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:43.200 They changed the format from pop country music to blues 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.680 and rhythm and blues the early stages of rhythm and 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:50.960 blues at that particular time, and that format involved with 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:57.360 quite clarity are artists of the ILK of Chuck Berry 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:04.920 and Bo Diddley, and how wof Jimmy Reid and eventually 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:09.280 BB King then Bobby Blue Blair. All of the artists 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.760 that you were able to listen to gave you a 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:17.600 clear picture why most of the world was saying, y'all 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:22.320 all look alike, you're this, you're not whatever, But this 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:27.160 music was showing young kids in blacks in that area 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.760 that the personalities, in the uniqueness that was in those 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:36.760 artists potentially was in each and every person that looked 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:40.640 like me. So that gave that generation that I was 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.320 a part of, a drive to fight, to work to 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:47.679 find the individuality that they believe existed in them. And 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:51.520 so that radio station was amazing in that regard for 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.080 getting you to see the value of you as a person. 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:58.040 Okay, so you're a little kid, you're listening to WDIA. 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.680 What were a couple of record words that moved you 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:03.640 that just blew your mind? A. 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:07.880 Oh, it's hard to sell a couple, Bob, but I 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:12.960 would look to Chuck Berry for one, Boldilly for another. 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:17.560 And when I say blew my mind, the music of 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:21.040 patterns that I'd been hearing was straight flow. There was 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.959 no dynamics happening with it. The chord progressions were there, 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:29.000 but there was no differentiating what those chord progressions were 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.480 saying to you in addition to what the lyric was saying. 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.640 When I was beginning to hear music on WDIA, the 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:40.880 music spoke to me in concert with the message. The 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.320 personality of the artists spoke to me in contact with 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:49.640 the uniqueness of them, and it was like music was 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:53.160 in fact a language. I started seeing the value of 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.640 that as a young kid, and it made me have 0:09:56.679 --> 0:10:00.160 aspirations to try to find what that unique disc it 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.000 possibly mean in my young life. So I started writing 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:06.280 down lyrics and harm and melodies as I'm listening to 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:09.240 songs being played on it that I was making up 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:11.160 while I was listening to things that were being played. 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:16.520 So it was it was that kind of magic with 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:20.200 that format to WDA was having. In addition to that, 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:24.640 they were making an offering of engaging more directly with 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:27.680 the community. They were having talent shows on the radio. 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:32.680 They were having singing choirs that sang on Saturdays, the 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:36.000 teen Tones as it teen Towns rather as they used 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:40.640 to call it, where they would perform on the radio. 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.640 And now at these the kids from all different schools 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:47.720 that would come together to rehearse to develop a format 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:50.640 that they were being instructed by one of the radio 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:54.960 personalities on the station of WDA, mister A. C. Williams. 0:10:55.120 --> 0:11:00.000 So it was it was just such an unbelievable country 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:04.319 contribution of radio at that time. It was an educational platform. 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:09.040 It was a spiritual platform on Sundays with church being played. 0:11:09.200 --> 0:11:12.439 But it also was a platform of seeing the individuality 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.520 of black talents that were heard on that station, which 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:16.400 was amazing. 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:20.440 Okay, we talk about the records on that station. You 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:25.240 personally have been responsible for number of hit records, very 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.560 successful records, not like today. When these records were hit, 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:32.560 everybody in America was aware of these records. You're in 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:39.319 the studio making a record. Do you know when it's 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:40.920 a hit or when it's not a hit? 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.800 Let me say it to you like this, Bob, because 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:49.560 this ansin. I don't think there are fortune talents out here, 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:53.920 but I think sometimes you get fortune. And so a 0:11:54.000 --> 0:12:01.040 couple of times I felt so comfortable broke the little money. 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:04.840 Don't know what the platform of major success truly means, 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:09.200 but I felt that that song was going to be successful. 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.080 What that meant in actuality, we told clarity No, I 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:17.200 didn't know. I was learning, but I felt that the 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:20.240 first song I felt that on significantly And we've been 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.600 Isaac and I had done a few records before this, 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.840 but the first song I significantly felt that was a 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:29.840 song on Sam and Dave called you don't know like 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:35.160 I know. And when that record came out, I assumed 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:39.520 that record would only be played on black radio stations, 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:44.840 and it was. But I also assumed that, if I'm 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:50.600 thinking right, this music is digestible to people who don't 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:54.959 go to church. But the spiritual significance that was in 0:12:55.600 --> 0:13:00.120 that particular melody and song came from the church, and 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.000 I felt that that was going to do something special, 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:06.240 and it did, and it was a chart record for 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.720 Salm and Dave, and that was a road map for 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:14.560 Isaac and I to cement the concept of creativity that 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:16.200 we used all of the hits that we did. 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.800 Okay, let's she use that first big Sam and Dave 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:23.680 song as an example. When did you know you had 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:27.680 it when you were writing it, when you were recording it, 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.199 when they were receiving did you know from the time 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:32.040 that you know it was composed or did you have 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.440 to make a finished record to say now I've got 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:34.960 all of it? 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:42.800 No, No, Isaac and I worked from concepts. The reason 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.079 we worked from concepts, if you don't mind me elaborating 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:49.239 just a little bit, the reason we worked for concepts 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:54.920 because when we would hear music on the radio motown records, 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:00.439 we saw that motown records had more of an emphasis 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:07.080 around a straight four beat, a straight four beat with 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:11.520 amazing melodies on top of that and flowing strings and 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:16.400 all horns that flowed with that and really great lyric 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:22.040 and they were digestible for black and white audiences very easily. 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:29.360 Burt Bacharac and Hal David were writers of another ill 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:37.040 that had the most amazing melodies in their songs, and 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:38.920 Bert would come up with some of the most intricate 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:42.120 changes ever imaginable. I didn't understand what all of that meant, 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.520 but I know what I felt and what Isaaca and 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:47.760 I felt with the uniqueness of that, And so we 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:52.320 knew that we could not outdo Motown and what they 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:56.480 were doing, and we certainly could not outdo back Iraq 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:59.520 and David and what they were doing. So we had 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:03.400 to find a path of creativity that led us to 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:06.280 have our own uniqueness. Remember I said I was being influenced, 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:10.320 we all were in this community by the contribution that 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:14.400 wd Ie the radio station was making with the individuality 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:19.560 of black artists. So we came up with the concept 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:24.400 of the low end using the bass, drums and guitar 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:29.840 with signature patterns around that particular area that created the 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:33.840 uniqueness for that and came up with with melodies and 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:37.520 that was my specialties. Uh uh. That that gave an 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:43.080 energy to those signatures on the low end, and we 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:47.840 felt that that would separate us sonically with the sound. 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.520 We didn't you know, we didn't get so technical in 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:53.280 the sonical aspect of how to define what all these 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.880 things were. But we we talked in terms of the 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:59.120 sound of it, and we were we found that that 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.560 was our path and what you don't know like I know, uh, 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:05.120 we thought that that was a validation of that and 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.600 from that point on we were able to go forward 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:13.160 with a path that locked us into that. The next 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:15.160 song that happened with that was a song called hold 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:19.120 On I'm Coming, and it was it was just that 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:24.520 ability is to to really define in our own minds 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:27.000 what was going to work in a unique way for 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:29.360 us and then be able to say this is going 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:31.840 to be it, which it was, it's going to be 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.640 a hit or wasn't. And so we called hold On 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:38.760 I'm Coming as a hit and it was We called 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:42.680 soul Man as a hit, and that was when we 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.680 wrote it, not even before we recorded. When we wrote 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:50.480 the song, we felt that my role was to to 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:53.880 teach Sam and Dave, the melodies of the songs, the 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:58.000 vocal patterns, and the nuances that created the uniqueness that 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:02.440 gave them a spring inside of their personalities. They already 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:04.560 had the soul for this, They already had their vibe, 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:07.480 they had had records before, but they were willing to 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:11.600 let us shape an order for them that was a 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:16.840 little bit unique but different for them, but also merit 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.439 where we were creating from. And at the time we 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.560 put that together, the four of us, we didn't know 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.560 it would be of the magnitude that had ultimately ended 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.879 up being, but we did know that we had found 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:35.720 a combination that was a strength for us, that seemnu 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:38.159 at the uniqueness of what we were doing versus what 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:41.320 we were hearing at Motown and or back of recond David, 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:45.120 and so we were able to constantly turn out hitchel on, 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:46.560 Sam and Dave with that. 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:51.119 Okay, you've written a couple of you know, you talk 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.480 about soul Man, hold On up Coming, and these are 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:59.080 iconic numbers forever, But you've written many many other songs, right, 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:05.280 So generally speaking, do you wait for inspiration or do 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.680 you say, well, i'm working, I better write some songs 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.560 or do you say an artist is coming into the studio, 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:15.120 I better write some So what is the impetus of creation? 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:22.040 Well that's a good question, abob because eventually we got 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.280 into a situation where everyone wanted songs for us from 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:29.719 us rather and in order to be sure that we 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:34.080 didn't have things sounding a lot, we did what I 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.840 mentioned a moment ago. We would first come up with 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.159 a concept and then decide on whether or not we 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:44.840 could be a significant compliment to a particular talent that 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.240 wanted to work with us. And so we were working 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.720 from that level of understanding, so we would would come 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:58.520 up with the concept get a creative direction. We live 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:01.960 by the philosophy that there are no new emotions. You 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:04.800 have to find fresh ways to talk about common emotions, 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:07.320 and so we wanted to be sure that the emotion 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.440 that we talked about the love on this group didn't 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.840 bump into the emotion that we talked about love with 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.720 a Sam and Dave or Karla Thomas or Johnny Taylor. 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:19.880 We have to find fresh ways to do it, and 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.720 we wanted to be able to do it inside of 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:25.199 what we were able to develop as a concept for 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:27.440 the new uniqueness of the artists that we were working 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:32.800 with today and me talking about this with you, it 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:36.080 sounds like we were thinking in a very very scientific, 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:40.440 highly analytical kind of way. That's not the case. We 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.639 were feeling these things, living out of the emotion of 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.000 what we were feeling, and then acting up on them, 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:49.199 and they were validating the meaning and the strength of 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.119 it based on the results of them. And as the 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.760 results kept coming, we kept developing even a better understanding 0:19:56.200 --> 0:20:00.840 of what we were doing. And more importantly, we were doing 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.240 what we were doing, so we were able to work 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:06.920 different artists different times. When it's time to work write 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:09.320 a song for particular artists, we had a concept for 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:12.480 that artist. We know what that concept was, We know 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:14.359 what the last record we had done on him. We 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:16.879 know we didn't want to bump into them with a 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:19.880 similar idea with the follow up record. We knew what 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.159 they had done before, We knew that what was the 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:24.560 hit on Sam or n or Dave or Johnny Taylor 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.080 or whoever, And we knew that we didn't want to 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:29.800 bump into any of those and we were fortunate enough 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:34.760 not to because we've created a vacuum around each artist 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:38.720 that we worked with that see minute, that aura for them, 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:41.760 and it drew the listener's mind to them and where 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:45.879 they were, more so than them being aware that really 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:48.639 every song generally is talking about the same things. You 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:50.960 hurt me, I hurt you, we fell in love yesterday, 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:56.720 fell out after you, whatever. But it was able to 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.879 be thought in terms of the active or other in 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.439 terms of those ways. And even though those things end 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:08.000 up being quite successful, we were not that brilliant about that. 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:10.320 We just were feeling it the right kind of way. 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:14.200 And I'm sure you've heard the thing about you get 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:15.520 on a run and then things work. 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:16.160 Well. 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:19.520 We were on a run coming from a space of 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:25.680 spirituality and emotional connectivity that was hard to define. Yet 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:28.719 it was happening in such a continuum that it was 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:34.280 creating a tremendous amount of excitement for us, for each 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:36.120 and every artist that we worked with, because we were 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:40.280 trying to outdo what we did on the last record. 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:44.480 We never wanted to create something for any artist that 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:46.879 we wanted to be as good as the last record 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:50.400 that we did. We always wanted to be better than 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:53.359 the last one that was dead we did, and so 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:56.800 we were the best critic of one could have because 0:21:56.840 --> 0:22:00.199 we were the worst critic for criticizing what we were doing. 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:13.360 Okay, there's a famous story about how you come up 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:18.960 with the title hold On Coming. Okay, Yeah, when you 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:23.760 come up with that title, do you then say, oh, 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:26.720 we should write a song or you try to write 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:28.840 a song. You came up with the title and then 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:29.960 it just flew from there. 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:33.960 Well, first, if you allow me, Bob to say this, Uh, 0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:37.720 there was there was a a some journalists of some 0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:43.280 folk from from from London, from England, and they approached 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:51.840 me about we're writing uh bathroom stories uh around music. 0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:58.600 Do you have anything that could be a bathroom story 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:03.040 from something that you guys had done. Now, as strange 0:23:03.080 --> 0:23:07.840 as that was first place, I never would have thought 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:12.680 that someone would have gotten me to talk about how 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:18.240 hold On I'm Coming came about because I wasn't keen 0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:21.280 on wanting to tell somebody that I was in the restroom. 0:23:22.240 --> 0:23:25.760 So I'm thinking because I mean, at the time, we 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:29.080 were a little popular, Isaac and I, but we were 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:32.240 not household names. So I'm just thinking, well, what is 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:33.960 it going to hurt? I'll just let them know what 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:40.560 happened with this. Decades later, the whole world knows about 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:43.720 hold On I'm coming and how it was created. So 0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:50.439 so no, we Isaac and I would quite often go 0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:55.520 to clubs just to air out, just to relax, just 0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:59.920 to just to take a break, and we would jay. 0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:03.520 In my book there's a picture of Isaac and I 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:06.280 on stage. This is before he was recording at his 0:24:06.400 --> 0:24:09.840 artist performing, he and I performing together. We would do 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:14.360 that often, leave the studio and go to a club, jam, 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:18.720 leave there, go back to the studio, put our coats 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:22.560 and jackets off, put something on, and go and write. 0:24:22.680 --> 0:24:26.240 This is one thirty two o'clock in the morning, one 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:29.919 of those nights when we were trying to come up 0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:32.560 with the follow up to you Don't Know Like I Know. 0:24:32.880 --> 0:24:36.320 On Sam and Day, we went to a club called 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:40.040 Club La Run and Isaac and I jam that night 0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:44.520 and we left there twelve thirty going on one o'clock 0:24:45.200 --> 0:24:48.480 and we came back to the studio. Well, in the 0:24:48.520 --> 0:24:52.800 Stack Studios, it was an old movie theater that Jim 0:24:52.840 --> 0:24:56.080 Stewart had converted into a recording studio. You know with 0:24:56.160 --> 0:24:59.639 the slope floor that you walk down, sit in your 0:24:59.680 --> 0:25:03.760 seat and look up to the screen. Well, in those theaters, 0:25:04.600 --> 0:25:07.680 there was no area outside in the lobby that you 0:25:07.720 --> 0:25:10.520 would go to the restroom. No in those theaters, and 0:25:10.760 --> 0:25:12.919 in those times, you'd walk through the door to go 0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:16.240 into the theater room itself, and right to the right 0:25:16.320 --> 0:25:19.879 or left would be a restroom. And because it was 0:25:20.000 --> 0:25:22.320 at that as soon as you were walking in the door, 0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:25.120 when you would go into the restroom, people wouldn't see 0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:27.639 the light from the restroom because they've gone down the 0:25:27.680 --> 0:25:30.679 floor and they're looking up. So it was placed in 0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:33.480 such a way that it was not an intrusive thing 0:25:33.760 --> 0:25:36.280 for a restroom to be inside of that of a 0:25:36.320 --> 0:25:39.600