Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on.
Speaker 1: These are our stories.
Speaker 4: Done done.
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up n SVU podcast.
Speaker 1: My name, as always is Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.
Speaker 3: Hello.
Speaker 2: Every week we talk about an episode of SVU, the
Speaker 2: true crime it's based on, and then we talked to
Speaker 2: a guest from the episode jam Packed Baby Yeah.
Speaker 1: And we got a long one this week. This was
Speaker 1: a long one. We go on some tangents. You guys
Speaker 1: aren't surprised, so I don't know. It didn't seem long
Speaker 1: when I listened to it.
Speaker 2: On this scam likely there has been an uptick in
Speaker 2: fucking scam calls.
Speaker 1: Em I'm gonna have to start a new email account.
Speaker 2: It's non stop and they're sending things where it's like
Speaker 2: there was a charge on your car click here to confront.
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is something that would get me. Thank God.
Speaker 1: I tricky tricky fishing.
Speaker 2: Before I respond to anything, I send the screenshots to
Speaker 2: my sister because I just been like, is this real
Speaker 2: or fake. Has my social Security number been compromised?
Speaker 1: I just can't tell guess what they're never emailing you
Speaker 1: about that. They're never emailing you to tell you that
Speaker 1: your social security has been compromised.
Speaker 2: Well, we got to talk about the number one thing,
Speaker 2: your birthday yesterday.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, before we hopped on with Hannah and on Aalise,
Speaker 1: I was telling them about how I overdid it a
Speaker 1: little bit and I had to lie down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you definitely had to lie down, but it was
Speaker 2: also you were so close, like we were leaving in
Speaker 2: ten fifteen minutes and you just collapse.
Speaker 1: I was like, I just need to lie down for
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes before we get into a car to go home.
Speaker 1: But it was amazing. My friends were the best people.
Speaker 1: They got a car service to pick me up and
Speaker 1: take up, pick us up, take us to this hotel.
Speaker 1: We stay it by the pool. We had drinks, we
Speaker 1: had food. It was amazing. I had the best day.
Speaker 1: It was so awesome. And then people sent me flowers,
Speaker 1: people sent me cupcakes. You guys all wrote such lovely
Speaker 1: messages on the Instagram. I had the best day. It
Speaker 1: was nice when I got home too, because of my
Speaker 1: little lie down. My total lie down. With the fifteen
Speaker 1: minutes at the pool plus the thirty forty five minutes
Speaker 1: home was about an hour. So I did sober up
Speaker 1: so that I could be around my children, which was good.
Speaker 1: They were really cute when they signed, they were like mom,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, this is cute. I'm glad
Speaker 1: I'm spending a sum time with my kids on my birthday.
Speaker 1: Just the right amount of time. Two hours before bedtime?
Speaker 1: What did you do at night? We ordered food from
Speaker 1: a plate from Joy, a place that I know you Joy.
Speaker 1: I ordered Joy too, You did? I did?
Speaker 2: I ordered Joe last night in bed, Yeah, but I
Speaker 2: didn't get Joy. I didn't get the thousand layer pancake
Speaker 2: like I normally do. Since we had multiple pizzas at
Speaker 2: the pool, I was like, I'll stay healthy and get
Speaker 2: shrimp Wanton's JK.
Speaker 1: I actually couldn't finish my pancake, and I was like,
Speaker 1: why can't I finish this? And then I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I ate so much at the pool.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 1: I love pool food. I love a club stand. I
Speaker 1: love pool. Yeah, refreshments. What is it not recession stand?
Speaker 1: What is that called? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Concessions?
Speaker 2: I love concessions at the pool or like country club food.
Speaker 6: Not that.
Speaker 1: Why are they called concessions. I don't know. A concession
Speaker 1: is when you concede something I don't know. Maybe you're like,
Speaker 1: I guess I'm eating it's the Yeah, i'd see the
Speaker 1: dogs and you knew the bartender. The bartender went above
Speaker 1: and beyond. He was really he was good. The bartender
Speaker 1: was so cool and he knew we had a friend
Speaker 1: in common, so he gave us some stuff for free
Speaker 1: and was really cool.
Speaker 2: He gave us some I didn't realize how hammered I was,
Speaker 2: but I did take I think four shots alone, because
Speaker 2: a lot of you would.
Speaker 1: Drink with me. I don't even know you were taking shots.
Speaker 1: I cash. That's how That's how out of it I was.
Speaker 1: But I remember all of our conversations. I just remember
Speaker 1: at the end being like, I gotta lie down my stomachs.
Speaker 1: My problem is I was telling them this too. I
Speaker 1: love mules. I love Moscow mules, I love any kind
Speaker 1: of like mule, and they just taste like nothing, and
Speaker 1: so I just drink and drink and drink them. And
Speaker 1: then it's like, oh, you've just had a lot of
Speaker 1: sugar and a lot of alcohol, and it's it always
Speaker 1: hits you.
Speaker 2: So you know Charlie's Taco's by my house, the food truck,
Speaker 2: the red one. Yes, yes, so they have a caso
Speaker 2: taco always on their truck. Right, it's basically a casadilla
Speaker 2: but in a hard shell. I want that, right, But
Speaker 2: there's me in the picture and she goes, you want this,
Speaker 2: met I go, yeah, I'll take that meat.
Speaker 3: I'll try it.
Speaker 1: And then I google it later and it was donkey.
Speaker 2: And I'm not like shading anyone for eating donkeys.
Speaker 1: I just do not want to eat a donkey. And
Speaker 1: I wait a minute, I ate in eat your taco?
Speaker 1: Hold on, yeah, how was what was it? It was
Speaker 1: like a word in Spanish and then you googled it
Speaker 1: and it was like barrio or something.
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, i'll take it. I'll try it.
Speaker 3: I trust you guys.
Speaker 1: And it was good.
Speaker 2: But I was like, next time, I'll get it a steak.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but not that a cow is less
Speaker 2: worthy of love. You ate, asked me.
Speaker 1: I did it.
Speaker 2: And I have a friend who's very connected with donkeys,
Speaker 2: like it's kind of her like power guide.
Speaker 1: I don't know, she like when she does.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of donkeys in her life and so
Speaker 2: I could by her and I just am like, I
Speaker 2: don't want to eat her hero animal.
Speaker 1: I mean we talked to Mary Stuart Masterson. She has
Speaker 1: too many ature donkeys. I can't believe you ate one
Speaker 1: of them. That's really fund up.
Speaker 2: It is, it was fucked up. They should just make
Speaker 2: sure it says donkey.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: They can spare their language if they want, but I
Speaker 2: will not be getting it again. But I liked the
Speaker 2: idea of a Chris you know, a case Sadia taco Wage.
Speaker 1: Did that story remind you of my story because it
Speaker 1: was mule? Yeah, okay, just making sure I know how
Speaker 1: you got there, but you got it right away.
Speaker 6: Mule.
Speaker 2: It's a donkey horse. I mean, I want to meet
Speaker 2: a Shetland pony before I die. That's definitely on my
Speaker 2: goals list. They're in Scotland, you know. Michelle Buteau just
Speaker 2: met Teddy the Shetland one of the most famous I
Speaker 2: would know, Michelle Collins.
Speaker 3: It was Michelle Collins.
Speaker 1: Teddy's always in the UK.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen that pony on on the internet.
Speaker 1: I miss it in my hometown.
Speaker 2: You could like, I think it was like five dollars
Speaker 2: and you can ride up a little pony three times
Speaker 2: round in a circle.
Speaker 1: You had a little baby Sebastian or whatever it was
Speaker 1: called little Sebastian.
Speaker 3: Wait, have I told my Reddat story on this?
Speaker 1: I don't think. Have I told you the red A story?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: I do not know Redda personally.
Speaker 2: I'm just a fan from Parks and rec And I
Speaker 2: was doing Benson Ball this comedy festival in DC, and
Speaker 2: the people who are running the fest they were like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, we're going to surprise her and we
Speaker 2: got a miniature horse.
Speaker 3: We're going to bring on stage. And I go, I
Speaker 3: don't think she's going to.
Speaker 2: Like that, and they go, no, no, We're going to surprise
Speaker 2: her with this horse. She's going to love it. I go,
Speaker 2: I don't think she's going to love it. I would,
Speaker 2: I would run it by her. I get a sense
Speaker 2: she's not going to like a whole live animal being
Speaker 2: brought onto the stage in the middle of her act.
Speaker 2: But you know, have at it, guys. So I'm watching
Speaker 2: the show. They bring out this horse. She's not having it.
Speaker 2: So she's like, Okay, I'm cool. But then they couldn't
Speaker 2: get rid of the horse because the horse was scared
Speaker 2: of going down the stairs. So then all these people
Speaker 2: had to try to so she So the show was
Speaker 2: interrupted and then we're now watching people push this horse
Speaker 2: down the stairs.
Speaker 1: So and you were right, of course, I was right,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that is that's terrible.
Speaker 2: But it was a really fun festival. And they brought
Speaker 2: us on a pirate ship with an open bar. It
Speaker 2: was like a fun time. They just you know, that
Speaker 2: was a faux pas.
Speaker 1: I think a pirate ship in DC.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we took like a picture, you know, giving
Speaker 2: the you know, the thing a hand job, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean.
Speaker 1: When I was working on Bar Rescue, one of their
Speaker 1: biggest episodes that I had to write jokes for when
Speaker 1: I did the pop up episodes was this bar in
Speaker 1: the DC area, like in right outside of DC, I
Speaker 1: think in either Maryland or Virginia. This bar there was
Speaker 1: a pirate bar. And the guy from Bar Rescue is like,
Speaker 1: you got to rebrand this. Nobody wants to go to
Speaker 1: a fucking pirate bar. And the woman just wouldn't do
Speaker 1: it because, like she loved the pirate lifestyle. So she
Speaker 1: let John Tapper redo her bar and then like a
Speaker 1: day later she didn't put it all back to pirate.
Speaker 2: Well, I was just talking to someone who said, fuck
Speaker 2: John Taffer and Bar Rescue. Hopefully that doesn't fuck with
Speaker 2: your money.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm never going to work there again. Tell
Speaker 1: me what happened?
Speaker 3: And I said, what's that? It was Shane Suarez.
Speaker 2: I was at a comedy festival in Denver this week
Speaker 2: and I met some people.
Speaker 3: Thank you for coming out to the gigs.
Speaker 2: But so he was saying that a lot of the
Speaker 2: places actually like he doesn't have a high success rate,
Speaker 2: and he actually fucks up bars and takes away their
Speaker 2: personality and like unique factors and makes it kind of
Speaker 2: generic and not interesting. And there was a he loved
Speaker 2: in Seattle and they fucked it over and then they
Speaker 2: like changed it back because they lost all this money.
Speaker 2: So like he, I guess, isn't actually that good at
Speaker 2: what he does. Wow, I'm wondering how Tabitha is salon
Speaker 2: takeover if all of Tabitha's girls are doing good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, because sometimes it's like sometimes
Speaker 1: what he does help people do though, is like he
Speaker 1: had a couple that I saw that were like alcoholics
Speaker 1: and they needed to stop drinking at their own bar
Speaker 1: to have success. And he like helped them figure that out,
Speaker 1: so in that sense, but it doesn't always have to
Speaker 1: be like a full Sometimes you just get to what's
Speaker 1: wrong with the person that's making the bar unsuccessful and
Speaker 1: not the decor.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and also also treat your employees well when
Speaker 2: that's number one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's also stage.
Speaker 2: I've only seen one episode, but it was like they
Speaker 2: caught an employee or maybe this was undercover, but I
Speaker 2: don't know what it was, but like someone came in
Speaker 2: and was trying to like sell concert tickets and a
Speaker 2: guy from the like the store gave him a bunch
Speaker 2: of meat and they caught him like trying to buy concerts.
Speaker 2: It gets with meat, and I'm like, this has to
Speaker 2: be staged. This can't be real that someone's like I
Speaker 2: don't know doing.
Speaker 1: Definitely, almost everything we watch on television is staged.
Speaker 2: But anyway, I make television and I still get tricked.
Speaker 2: I show up to set and I'm like, wait, what, Okay,
Speaker 2: we gotta start.
Speaker 1: We gotta start just because it's a long episode today
Speaker 1: and we don't want you guys to I don't know
Speaker 1: they like us, but you and I know you guys
Speaker 1: always sometimes you guys say we like the long ones.
Speaker 2: I don't get why everyone got mad at Sally Field
Speaker 2: for going that. You guys like me, you really like me.
Speaker 2: It's like she won two oscars.
Speaker 3: What's wrong with that.
Speaker 1: I don't think that they got mad at her. I
Speaker 1: think it was like a meme moment, even though memes
Speaker 1: didn't exist yet. I think it was just like she
Speaker 1: was quoted and like no.
Speaker 2: I think it was like a humiliating moment that she
Speaker 2: had to live. Really, that's the vibe I get.
Speaker 1: Humiliating for me as I met her son one time
Speaker 1: and thought he was somebody different and I said, hi, Dave,
Speaker 1: we've met before, and he was like, I'm not Dave. Anyway,
Speaker 1: let's move on.
Speaker 2: Let's get the show started, all right, And so today
Speaker 2: we will be talking about Pretend Season eight, episode twenty one.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure a lot of you listening are like,
Speaker 2: I requested that and you did and he listened to you.
Speaker 2: It was your idea, so amazing news. It starts with
Speaker 2: a man with a mustache and a flashlight checking out
Speaker 2: what's up and it looks like a construction, messy home
Speaker 2: building area, and the guy is like, where are you?
Speaker 2: Where are you he's looking for some what is he
Speaker 2: looking for? It's his phone, but it was a great
Speaker 2: fake out, like you think it's a camp but it's
Speaker 2: his phone.
Speaker 3: He finds it in a toolbox.
Speaker 2: So he was there in the day and he makes
Speaker 2: a call to his wife to tell Cheryl he left
Speaker 2: his phone at the salvage site, and she thinks he's lying,
Speaker 2: and he's like, I was just watching the game, and
Speaker 2: he goes, how can I avoid your calls if I
Speaker 2: didn't have my phone? And so they're just you know,
Speaker 2: marriage jokes. This is like, so it's relatable to the
Speaker 2: people that were watching.
Speaker 1: Caryl sounds like a real ball buster.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Cheryl's a ballbuster, or he's you know, ignores or
Speaker 2: maybe he's yeah, yeah, so yeah here, I think Cheryl's
Speaker 2: a bitch. But who knows what this guy's been up
Speaker 2: to in his life. That makes Cheryl so suspicious, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. But he is telling the truth.
Speaker 2: But he notices something's weird. There's a light on in
Speaker 2: the basement, but no one should have been there, and
Speaker 2: he tore out all the light fixtures earlier in the day.
Speaker 2: But he makes a giant mistake to go look and
Speaker 2: see what's up. And as he's going through, the dwar
Speaker 2: flings open and he falls to the ground and enters
Speaker 2: a man. And probably one of the scariest things you
Speaker 2: can see if you're in an abandoned salvage site in
Speaker 2: the middle of the night for no reason, is a
Speaker 2: man in a black leather simp mask. Okay, is that
Speaker 2: what that's called a simp mask? Like simps wear it.
Speaker 2: It could be an executioner mask maybe.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, I didn't know if that was like
Speaker 1: the proper like name. I was like thinking, like it's
Speaker 1: like a freaky sexual Luca Libra, Luca Libra kind of thing.
Speaker 1: But yeah, like I don't but I don't know what
Speaker 1: you call that, Like, yeah, an executioner mask maybe is
Speaker 1: what I think too.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but like you, if you're wrestling, you don't
Speaker 2: want to wear leather on your face, right right, it's
Speaker 2: more stretchy, It's more that's more of a spandexy, stretchy thing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're like exercising, you don't want to wear a leather
Speaker 2: face thing. But I just think of when I think
Speaker 2: of a simp, I think of pulp fiction. That's yeah.
Speaker 2: So the gamp. So it's gimp, not simp. Simp was
Speaker 2: I thought I thought saying gimp.
Speaker 1: I thought it was simp because, like you know, people
Speaker 1: are always like, you guys, simp so hard for maloney
Speaker 1: or something like people say, it's like what, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It is like a submissive word, so maybe it's not
Speaker 1: even that far off.
Speaker 2: But a simp means a man who is submissive towards
Speaker 2: like a dominant woman, hoping the woman will like win
Speaker 2: them over.
Speaker 1: Okay, so simp is a similar term, you could. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh wow, Lisa's like introducing me to this
Speaker 1: new term. But I do think of the gimp from
Speaker 1: for sure. I think of pulp fiction. Yeah, in the
Speaker 1: Simpsons twenty two short stories about Springfield, one of the
Speaker 1: stories is a play on that scene, which is wild
Speaker 1: for a cartoon, you know, yes, rape. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I've mentioned this on the podcast, but I did
Speaker 1: see a pulp fiction when I was in eighth grade,
Speaker 1: and in my opinion, that was too soon. I know, Lisa,
Speaker 1: you were seeing all kinds of movies like that when
Speaker 1: you were like eight, but like that for me, I
Speaker 1: was like what am I watching? Like? I was like,
Speaker 1: we gotta go pulp fiction shill.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, the shootings or whatever, but yeah,
Speaker 2: that dungeon scene is pretty I don't want to say vulgar,
Speaker 2: but yeah, torture rape.
Speaker 1: You don't want that for eighth grade. Oh okay, wait,
Speaker 1: I'm googling this right now, and I'm thinking that this
Speaker 1: has bad connotations. We should not be using the word
Speaker 1: gim but we just we only know it from pulp fiction.
Speaker 1: But now we know it's actually has some bad, bad background.
Speaker 1: But we won't be using it going forward. But that
Speaker 1: is the kind of mass if you've seen pulp fiction. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we should come up with a new name. I think
Speaker 1: executioner is kind of like that is kind of good. No,
Speaker 1: you said, like execution mask.
Speaker 2: Okay, the man screams, but we don't know what's what
Speaker 2: because we cut to Elliott, so you know, we did
Speaker 2: shit chat.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Where we were was the our bus dashed, man's on
Speaker 2: the ground. But then they cut to Elliott playing games
Speaker 2: with kids.
Speaker 1: In his home.
Speaker 2: It's like a little poker party. But daddy gets a
Speaker 2: call and he's got to go. But the kids understand, you.
Speaker 1: Know, the kids are also throwing out a lot of
Speaker 1: like poker terms that. I was like, what the fuck
Speaker 1: are you guys talking about. They're like, you had me
Speaker 1: up the river over the bridge, you gotta go down
Speaker 1: double on a forty two. I was like, what are
Speaker 1: you I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 2: Oh the river is the last card that gets flipped over.
Speaker 1: And all of this. Yeah, you knew that. I forgot.
Speaker 1: You're from like a card shark family.
Speaker 2: Well, no, poker is not really Russian, but my brother
Speaker 2: in law, you know he recent you played.
Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking it was a Russian thing. No, I'm
Speaker 1: a follower.
Speaker 2: That's what I've learned in the past year because of
Speaker 2: editing in RuPaul's drag Race. I have no original thoughts.
Speaker 2: I just do what anyone else does, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. I didn't like Olivia Rodriguo the choices did.
Speaker 2: Guess what I'm doing it. I'm a Chamberlain wore hoops.
Speaker 2: I bought hoops like. I truly have no original thoughts.
Speaker 2: But poker was huge when I was in high school.
Speaker 2: It was like the Negranu the like I remember what
Speaker 2: The World Series of Poker was huge. So I would
Speaker 2: play till four or five in the morning on fucking
Speaker 2: school night, Like I was out playing poker in homes often,
Speaker 2: and wow, they like took over my life.
Speaker 1: Like, you know, because I'm a trends follower. I bet
Speaker 1: that's fun when you go to Vegas. Yeah, but I lose. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like the men I've only played.
Speaker 2: I've only played poker like Hold Him in a casino
Speaker 2: in like tal and the Dominican Republic. But the guys
Speaker 2: at the table, I truly was I was the luckiest
Speaker 2: woman in the world. Every guy at the table was
Speaker 2: a different ethnicity, and they all made fun of each
Speaker 2: other the whole time, and they all were good friends.
Speaker 2: So I felt like I was in a cartoon, Like
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe it. It was one of every kind
Speaker 2: of person all roasting each other, and they liked my
Speaker 2: presence so they strung me along. And then I think
Speaker 2: they all like were like, let's get her out of here, and.
Speaker 1: Took my money.
Speaker 2: So that's the thing with Hold Him, Like when you
Speaker 2: are playing with people that know how to play it
Speaker 2: is they're gonna take your money.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's because when I played blackjack, the
Speaker 1: guys at the table always kind of helped me a
Speaker 1: little bit.
Speaker 6: There.
Speaker 1: I was like I would stay or I would hit.
Speaker 2: Well, because your success has nothing to do with their success,
Speaker 2: right exactly.
Speaker 1: It's a different kind of game, totally. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay, So then we cut from poker to like a
Speaker 2: really bloody Converse shoe on a mattress attached to a man.
Speaker 3: The blood is coming from the.
Speaker 2: Crotch area of the victim, and the victim is also
Speaker 2: in a leather face mask and there's blood on his chest.
Speaker 2: And then we see like a baseball back covered in
Speaker 2: barbed wire. It's a scene credits.
Speaker 1: Baby.
Speaker 2: Then we're back to the scene of the crime and
Speaker 2: it's Benson and Stabler with Melinda and they're investigating, obviously,
Speaker 2: and we find out that the femoral artery was severed
Speaker 2: and that's like in your thigh area, and if that
Speaker 2: gets cut, you bleed out within five.
Speaker 1: Minutes, Like you die immediately.
Speaker 2: And so the cause of death, Melinda says, is hemorrhag
Speaker 2: hemorrhagic shock, hemorrhage whatever, a hemorrhage in some shock because
Speaker 2: you're bleeding too much.
Speaker 1: Wait. Can I just bring something up, Lisa that I
Speaker 1: think you would appreciate. Do you remember the scene in Dexter?
Speaker 1: I think it was the opening scene of one of
Speaker 1: the of the season that had John Lithgow in it,
Speaker 1: and he's got a woman in the bathtub and he
Speaker 1: just cuts her femoral artery in the bathtub. Yeah, my
Speaker 1: friend Pat like met that actress and would like right
Speaker 1: before she did that and was like, yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be on Dexter in a couple of days. And then
Speaker 1: he tuned in and that was the scene he said
Speaker 1: he saw, and he was like, can you imagine just
Speaker 1: going around and telling all your friends, like, tune into
Speaker 1: me on Dexter and the first thing is just getting
Speaker 1: bled out in the first minute of the of the episode, Like,
Speaker 1: I just thought you would like a little Dexter today,
Speaker 1: one hundred percent do.
Speaker 2: It is one of the greatest seasons of television. I
Speaker 2: would say that John Lithgow Dexter season.
Speaker 1: I told you he got on the subway during with
Speaker 1: me during that season and I couldn't make eye contact
Speaker 1: with him. I was so scared. I was like, the
Speaker 1: Trinity Killer just got on the subway and I'm gonna die.
Speaker 2: It was an incredible episode of television. And I've read
Speaker 2: in some fan things whatever the new thing of Dexter
Speaker 2: is the showrunner from seasons one through four, season five
Speaker 2: through eight they had someone else, and so we're getting
Speaker 2: the original fucking showrunner for this new season.
Speaker 1: So that's cool. I just watched the like longer trailer
Speaker 1: that came out recording, and I'm excited.
Speaker 2: Well, it's also interesting when we talk about our lives.
Speaker 2: I was talking to someone recently. I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: so then the show runner and they're like, what is that?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, why don't you know what that is?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 1: But it is.
Speaker 3: I guess it is industry terms. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then outside of you know, femoral arteries and dexter
Speaker 2: and blood and sadness, Marishka does have beautiful banks.
Speaker 1: Okay, so oh I love it. Yeah, I love this look.
Speaker 2: Yeah, bangs and like a little updo it looks really nice?
Speaker 2: And then Melinda gives us more scoop. And the victim
Speaker 2: was hit with a bunch of light tubes and it's
Speaker 2: such thin glass that breaks into fragments and so he
Speaker 2: had like cuts and pieces all over.
Speaker 1: His body from it.
Speaker 2: And you know, there's a lot of ideas it could
Speaker 2: be a consensual BDSM gone wrong, but Benson is like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but the hands aren't tied and that's kind of so
Speaker 2: we're like, Benson, are you what are you doing in
Speaker 2: your private life that you know the intricate rules of
Speaker 2: bdsimplay that it means like, oh, the hands aren't tied.
Speaker 1: This isn't it.
Speaker 2: But then they take the mask off and the boy
Speaker 2: looks fifteen years old, no idea, so young, so dead?
Speaker 1: So like what the fuck? Stabler asks who brought him
Speaker 1: to torture him? Like we got to find out.
Speaker 2: So they're talking to the mustache man who found the body,
Speaker 2: and he's explaining himself and they're suspicious of him, and
Speaker 2: he's like, I have a contract with the fucking city.
Speaker 2: I take shit out of buildings that are about to
Speaker 2: be demolished. I took some cool windows and so the
Speaker 2: security bars off, the windows are gone, and that's where
Speaker 2: the leather boys entered, Like go away, I don't know
Speaker 2: what you want from me. And then there's a woman
Speaker 2: and she's running towards the building with a dog and
Speaker 2: iced Tea joins her outside and she explains and she
Speaker 2: has like this bray and a poodle. This is my future.
Speaker 2: Also this is me and she goes, listen, we're it
Speaker 2: on the street there's some torture. Who is gossiping this fast?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is really fast, like pre I mean, I
Speaker 1: what year was this. I doubt this lady's on Twitter,
Speaker 1: is all I'm saying. I don't think she found out
Speaker 1: about it that quickly. Like yeah, it's like I heard
Speaker 1: there was some satanic undertones, and it's like they just
Speaker 1: the blood is not even dry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And she's like, with rape satan, what's up? And
Speaker 2: I says, don't believe anything you hear, but she goes,
Speaker 2: I know who did it, Darren Tolsen. He lives at
Speaker 2: the end of the block. And I've seen flyers with
Speaker 2: his face on it and they're up every morning and
Speaker 2: ripped by the afternoon. And he is a sex offender
Speaker 2: and that's that. And so this is a neighborhood where
Speaker 2: they're harassing a sex offender and you know this guy
Speaker 2: did target young boys.
Speaker 3: So let's see what's up.
Speaker 2: So they're talking to the landlord who said that this guy,
Speaker 2: Darren is a model tenant, and Ice makes a joke
Speaker 2: like okay, well he modeled for a mugshot I love.
Speaker 2: And the landlord is a criminal justice reform queen. He's like,
Speaker 2: I don't know what you want, but if without a warrant,
Speaker 2: I'm not letting you in where, like, and where do
Speaker 2: you want felons to live the streets? Like I'm fighting
Speaker 2: for what's right. And it's true, it's like everything is
Speaker 2: so complicated in this world. But if someone does serve
Speaker 2: their time, like they got to live somewhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's like, I don't and I don't rent
Speaker 1: to families with kids, he said. So it's like he's
Speaker 1: not putting anyone in danger immediately in the building.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't even connect that. Yeah, so this like landlord.
Speaker 2: He looks like a scuzzy skateboard type guy, but in
Speaker 2: reality he's like this criminal justice maven.
Speaker 1: I love, he's a criminal justice reform queen.
Speaker 2: I've been seeing that a lot. I feel like you
Speaker 2: said it and now I can't stop singing. And our
Speaker 2: friend kept going go off, queen, and now I can't stop.
Speaker 1: No, And I sent you. I told you that Rosie.
Speaker 1: When she was posing for a photo, she goes, I
Speaker 1: look great, and you were like, we love a confident queen.
Speaker 1: Ye I hate again. I'm a follower, no original.
Speaker 2: I just like any accent, any slogan, any words goes
Speaker 2: into my brain.
Speaker 1: You have so many original thoughts, but this is not
Speaker 1: the place for me to convince you of that. So
Speaker 1: let's go.
Speaker 2: Well, no, But like when I'm on the road with people,
Speaker 2: I end up talking like that. It's just brains are
Speaker 2: so wild. Brain's an outer space in the ocean. We
Speaker 2: know nothing about them. There's spray paint on the door
Speaker 2: that says pervert, and the landlord goes, well, maybe you
Speaker 2: should arrest that flyer bitch forandalism.
Speaker 1: How about that the pervert.
Speaker 2: Is not home and the landlord says he will not
Speaker 2: open the door without a warrant. So they say, fine,
Speaker 2: we'll come back at four am and wake you all up.
Speaker 2: And he does not want to wake up early. I
Speaker 2: could tell by his flannel he likes to sleep in.
Speaker 2: He goes and he everything goes out the window, all
Speaker 2: of his secret like all of his fuck. The police
Speaker 2: attitude is like, actually, he works at this bakery on
Speaker 2: Mott Street.
Speaker 1: Go visit him at night.
Speaker 2: So there's a man kneading dough and Benson's like, wow,
Speaker 2: strong hands.
Speaker 3: You love to work with your hands.
Speaker 1: And then Maloney makes.
Speaker 2: This giant leap and goes, oh, is that how you
Speaker 2: pound flesh with those hands, and it's like, back off, guys.
Speaker 2: I hate when they put me in a position to
Speaker 2: like defend a sex offender. It's like so annoying, Like
Speaker 2: I would like to hate people that, you know, attack children,
Speaker 2: but now you're making me like sad for this guy
Speaker 2: who's just trying to need bread to live in a
Speaker 2: shitty apartment.
Speaker 1: He acts the defensive the guy.
Speaker 2: But he's chill, and Maloney's like, usually when people are innocent,
Speaker 2: they don't act calm. You're too calm. And usually when
Speaker 2: they're innocent, they stop what they're doing. But he can't
Speaker 2: because he's kneading dough for eight minutes, because if you
Speaker 2: don't for eight minutes, the bread won't rise. And that
Speaker 2: is awesome. Whoever, Yeah, we need to see who wrote
Speaker 2: this episode? Like fucking beautiful, it's so beautiful. So they
Speaker 2: show him the horrific crime scene photos. He says he
Speaker 2: does not know who the victim is, and they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: so one of your neighbors turns up dead and it's
Speaker 2: just a coincidence, and he goes, oh, she sent.
Speaker 1: You, and so she is Sonya Prickland.
Speaker 2: Ten years ago, he gets out of prison and then
Speaker 2: her son disappears the next day, and so everyone is like,
Speaker 2: it's you, it's you, it's you.
Speaker 3: It's you, it's you.
Speaker 2: And now she bothers him everywhere that he goes and
Speaker 2: won't leave him alone. But it's like her kid's dead,
Speaker 2: what do you want her to do? Play par cheesy
Speaker 2: like she's she's this is her new hobby. So I
Speaker 2: thought it was going to be the woman from the
Speaker 2: hat from earlier, but it's not.
Speaker 1: It's a different woman. Did you think the same thing
Speaker 1: or you knew it was going to be Yeah, I wasn't. No,
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure. I thought maybe, yeah, it was her.
Speaker 2: So the lady when they go talk to him, and
Speaker 2: she looks like a theater queen, but she.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, she really looks like a
Speaker 1: sad mom, like like she has the SVU sad mom,
Speaker 1: where's my baby? Look to her.
Speaker 2: So the lady is like, he took my son and
Speaker 2: they're like, it's not proven, and she goes, I don't care.
Speaker 1: It's him.
Speaker 2: He snatched him the first time he saw him when
Speaker 2: he was on a bike. He should be in jail
Speaker 2: and he's not. So I watch him since the boy
Speaker 2: found as a teen. The mom is like, well, Joey
Speaker 2: would have been sixteen this year. So they go down
Speaker 2: to see if, like, maybe that's her son and he's
Speaker 2: been missing for all these years, and she starts crying
Speaker 2: and going, that's Joey, that's Joey. I can't believe he
Speaker 2: was alive all this time. That bastard had him, and
Speaker 2: she cries into Stabler's chest, which jealous. So the victim
Speaker 2: is Joey Brigland, I guess. And they're gonna go pick
Speaker 2: up the bread guy even though there is no evidence
Speaker 2: at all. So then we cut to the precinct and
Speaker 2: Ice and Munch leave to go.
Speaker 1: You know, do work.
Speaker 2: They're busy boys, and a team boy comes in with
Speaker 2: fluffy bangs and a puffy coat and he says he
Speaker 2: needs to talk to someone about Riley Cusky murder. And
Speaker 2: they're like, what what are you talking about? And he
Speaker 2: says that boy you found last night. They're like, no,
Speaker 2: he's been idd as another boy, and the guy's like, well, no,
Speaker 2: that's Riley Cusky and Ice goes, how do you even know?
Speaker 2: And the boy lifts up and in his hand as
Speaker 2: a tape recorder and he says, I taped him getting killed.
Speaker 1: Done done? That is that is a done done?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Munch takes a deep ass breath and Craigan's holding a
Speaker 2: remote about to show Benson and Stabler the video and us,
Speaker 2: you know, as the viewer, the murder tape. So it's
Speaker 2: Riley's shirtless in the video, going, hey, get ready to
Speaker 2: watch this video. And so they're wrestling and the guys
Speaker 2: are in leather hitting each other and then the artery
Speaker 2: gets caught and Riley's.
Speaker 1: Like, whoa, I need to lay down, turn off the camera.
Speaker 2: And so it was a stage five with real weapons,
Speaker 2: so it's scary. So it's like extreme wrestling fighting whatever,
Speaker 2: and this is an accident. So Scott is the name
Speaker 2: of the boy that came in with the tape. And
Speaker 2: so Benson, Craigan and the Stabler listened to him talking
Speaker 2: with Munch and ice.
Speaker 3: Who's Jake? Oh, so Jake and him were fighting with.
Speaker 1: This guy's no, this is what I want to know.
Speaker 1: Then who's Jake? The mom said, this is my son Jake?
Speaker 1: So where's Jake? Did they ever go back to this? No?
Speaker 1: Or do we just assume that this woman made a
Speaker 1: false ID because she's hysterical? I also thought his name
Speaker 1: was Joey. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2: Jake is the third person because he says that Jake
Speaker 2: and Riley were fighting and Scott was filming it.
Speaker 1: Oh you're right. Okay, well that's my question still stands.
Speaker 2: Here's Joey. Where's Joey? Why did like when I learned
Speaker 2: how to write shit? Not that I'm a professional like
Speaker 2: these SVU people, but you don't need two j names. Okay,
Speaker 2: where are you Jake and Joey ing us like that
Speaker 2: jam Joey us.
Speaker 1: I just I.
Speaker 2: Learned that note early on and learning how to write scripts.
Speaker 2: So you want to keep all the names Mary's separate.
Speaker 2: Let's just say dugger situation a Kardashian but it's part
Speaker 2: of it. So basically Scott is the boy and the coat,
Speaker 2: and he says that Jake and Riley were fighting, Scott
Speaker 2: just filmed it, and that Jake didn't want to say
Speaker 2: anything and threatened to kill him if he told. But
Speaker 2: it's just an accident, like I had to tell, Riley
Speaker 2: is my fucking best friend. So they got to find Jake,
Speaker 2: which is Riley's friend, not Scott Scott's, like I never
Speaker 2: met him until yesterday. That's Riley's friend. Jake's told me
Speaker 2: not to. I mean, clearly, these are lies. Okay, that's
Speaker 2: why we don't have the story straight because it's not
Speaker 2: a straight story. Okay, right, this guy is lying. So
Speaker 2: if we seemed confused, it's Scott's fault. And Elliott is like,
Speaker 2: the camera was stable, no one was holding it, and
Speaker 2: the only time it wasn't stable is when the other
Speaker 2: mass opponent walked off camera.
Speaker 3: It's you. We know it's you. We've been detectives for
Speaker 3: over a decade.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he says, no, no, no, no, no, no no, and Elliott goes,
Speaker 2: DNA will tell us who the other guy is, so
Speaker 2: I'll stop, And then Scott starts tearing up and he's like,
Speaker 2: Riley was my best friend. And then I saw then
Speaker 2: tells Maloney, we're just taking testimony and he's sixteen, so
Speaker 2: we can't talk to him like this, which shocking for us,
Speaker 2: for you to follow the rules and respect the people.
Speaker 1: And so and so. Basically, Jake was a fictional made
Speaker 1: up person. Jake was not existent. Jake's but Joey, where
Speaker 1: the fuck is Joey?
Speaker 3: Go on, poor Joey.
Speaker 2: Elliott says, you need to call your parents, and then
Speaker 2: we'll talk about what happened to your friend, and then
Speaker 2: it just cuts straight to trial.
Speaker 3: Part seventeen.
Speaker 2: We have our friend Barry Bostwick aka all Over Gates
Speaker 2: as the defense attorney. You guys probably know him as
Speaker 2: the white hair, classic rich looking man.
Speaker 3: Ye, so that's him.
Speaker 2: And Novak's chatting to the jury like, oh, he looks
Speaker 2: like a good boy. Now look at Scott cleaned up.
Speaker 2: But you'll see this tape and you'll see what an
Speaker 2: evil bitch this guy really is. And then the defense
Speaker 2: is playing a game of like, this is consensual sports.
Speaker 2: It can't be murder if you like kill someone in
Speaker 2: the ring, like I'm a boxing ring, so like, if
Speaker 2: it's an accident, there's no intent, there's no crime.
Speaker 1: So both have really good points.
Speaker 2: Now we have Scott's psychiatrist on the stand, and he
Speaker 2: is a man that's been an SV four episodes different people.
Speaker 2: His name's Tim Burt Feldman, but I knew I knew him.
Speaker 2: I knew I knew him, and I do. He's from
Speaker 2: Devilware's praduc He was the head of Elias Clark of
Speaker 2: like the Conde Nast, So he was the guy trying
Speaker 2: to like get Miranda Priestly out and like find someone
Speaker 2: that was cheaper, and so that if he looked familiar
Speaker 2: to you, he was the CEO.
Speaker 1: Yes, totally and so.
Speaker 2: On the stand, the psychiatrist says that Scott's been feeling
Speaker 2: depressed and he's been seeing him for about a year
Speaker 2: and the reason he's into this game is because he
Speaker 2: likes to get pain. So he's a massachist, not a sadist.
Speaker 2: He does not get off on giving pain but actually
Speaker 2: getting it. But so he's just trying to feel something,
Speaker 2: anything at all. But Novak's not buying it. And he goes, well,
Speaker 2: if he's so sad, why doesn't he just cut himself?
Speaker 2: And it's like, how is this real life right now?
Speaker 2: Like if he was really a basket, you'd be cutting himself.
Speaker 2: But you know, she's doing her job.
Speaker 1: She's doing her job now. So you know, court is over.
Speaker 2: Novak's walking in the lobby of the court and a
Speaker 2: pigtailed young woman in denim and a little backpack runs
Speaker 2: in and she's looking for Novak. She goes, I asked
Speaker 2: a court officer, I'm looking for you. They told me
Speaker 2: I can find you. The girl introduces herself as Cassandra Sullivan,
Speaker 2: Riley's girlfriend, and I love her voice.
Speaker 1: I like wish I've always remembered her voice a little late,
Speaker 1: like she's always at like totally.
Speaker 2: She says that Scott is her best friend, and she's like,
Speaker 2: is he going to jail?
Speaker 3: Like he's going to jail, isn't he?
Speaker 2: So basically, this girl is Riley's girlfriend, but since Riley
Speaker 2: and Scott are best friends, you know, Scott is also
Speaker 2: her best friend, and so this is a really tough
Speaker 2: time for her. Novak said that the jury is back
Speaker 2: with the verdict and she can come see if you
Speaker 2: know her friend's going to jail or not. So Cassandra
Speaker 2: says some information that stops Novak in her tracks, and
Speaker 2: basically it's that Scott keeps texting her that he's sorry
Speaker 2: and he wishes it was him and not Riley. So
Speaker 2: she goes with Novak to hear the verdict. Murder in
Speaker 2: the second not guilty, manslaughter not guilty, criminally negligent homicide guilty.
Speaker 2: Did I try to look up the difference between manslaughter
Speaker 2: and criminally negligent homicide and all of that I did?
Speaker 1: Was it confusing?
Speaker 3: Yes? I have nothing to share, no information, and like it.
Speaker 1: Was so hard.
Speaker 2: That's why law school is so long, and lawyers get
Speaker 2: the big bucks. Because I could I could not because
Speaker 2: there's also involuntary manslaughter and so it's like all of
Speaker 2: these things are just too intricate for my ass.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So Scott sees Cassandra in the courtroom and he's like
Speaker 2: wait please, and she glares at him and runs off,
Speaker 2: and Novak's suspicious. So Novak goes to Cassandra's home and
Speaker 2: she is a foster parent. So she's been in foster care.
Speaker 2: Is that a clue maybe yes, no, or just a fact.
Speaker 2: So then Novak goes into the room and she explains
Speaker 2: as a foster kid, she goes to a lot of
Speaker 2: different schools and Riley was nice to her right away,
Speaker 2: and they like, you know, clicked immediately. Then she asks
Speaker 2: was it serious with you? And Riley and Cassandra says yes.
Speaker 2: And then now Novak does like the gay Prada shoe
Speaker 2: legally blonde moment and like tricks her and is like,
Speaker 2: so was it serious with Scott? And she looks stunned,
Speaker 2: and Novak basically is like, I saw the way he
Speaker 2: looked at you. He's in love with you, So like,
Speaker 2: don't even fuck with me. She tears up and nods.
Speaker 2: She says, yes, that her and Scott were dating on
Speaker 2: the side, but Riley did not know and it only
Speaker 2: happened once, but he wouldn't let it go. But it
Speaker 2: might not be an accident. And then Cassandra drops a
Speaker 2: fucking bomb and goes. She knows it's not an accident.
Speaker 2: So as the kids say that escalated quickly do the
Speaker 2: kids say that I think that was the thing at
Speaker 2: one point. I know, but it is like I use
Speaker 2: gifts all the time, but I thought it's because I'm
Speaker 2: young and hip, and then really millennials actually send gifts,
Speaker 2: moving gifts, and the gen z make fun of us.
Speaker 2: But this whole time, I thought like, oh, look at
Speaker 2: me with my gifts and year old emojis. They also
Speaker 2: don't like that we use like the crying laughing face emoji.
Speaker 2: They use the skull and cross, but like they just
Speaker 2: don't want to be like us, which is fine.
Speaker 1: But I love sending gifts. When you find a really
Speaker 1: perfect gift response, it's a it's a great feeling.
Speaker 2: Well, the great greatest gift of all, of course, is
Speaker 2: iced tea dancing with a bowl of cereal.
Speaker 1: Yes, she did just send to somebody who had COVID.
Speaker 1: I missed the COVID. I'm bad. I actually you know,
Speaker 1: as a kid.
Speaker 2: It was always like God, I'm such a loser. And
Speaker 2: now I do feel cool and I have a lot
Speaker 2: of friends, and I'm like, this is too much. I
Speaker 2: don't need this, so many texts, so many messages.
Speaker 1: I don't. I didn't even are checking in on you
Speaker 1: a lot. I imagine that your phone blows up a lot.
Speaker 2: It does, and I'm blessed because my whole life I
Speaker 2: was like, why can't people like me? And now that
Speaker 2: I do have a nice group, a nice community, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I can't get I can't face I can't I'll be
Speaker 2: I can't facetimey right now.
Speaker 1: Like I just can't. And I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: I didn't read any of your text messages. I just
Speaker 2: responded with a gift and you told me you had COVID,
Speaker 2: So my.
Speaker 1: Dad Okay, wait, so how does Cassandra know that it's
Speaker 1: not an accident?
Speaker 2: So great segue. Damn, that was pretty impressive. Care getting
Speaker 2: me back on track. So she said that in science
Speaker 2: they learned about the femeral artery in class and that
Speaker 2: she was with Scott and they learned like how quickly
Speaker 2: someone can bleed to death if it's cut. And that
Speaker 2: was one week before the incident. The next scene is
Speaker 2: one of my favorite tropes ever, ever ever. Chinese food takeout.
Speaker 3: At the presets. I mean, that would be my make
Speaker 3: a Wish wish.
Speaker 2: I'm like, can I go to the set and eat
Speaker 2: Chinese food with this the cast the cast of Oh
Speaker 2: my God, well, like there's things on the screen and
Speaker 2: like we do like a fake crime like that would
Speaker 2: be knock on wood. Hopefully I'll never get a make
Speaker 2: a wish? Okay?
Speaker 1: Do they give make wishes to people in their thirties.
Speaker 2: They've got it's not Yeah, I think it's just for kids.
Speaker 2: There's got to be an adult version of that.
Speaker 1: It is called dream Foundation. Okay, sorry, I hope you
Speaker 1: get your Dream Foundation wish now. I hope not, Kara.
Speaker 1: I want to say, hell, I think not. That's what
Speaker 1: I mean. I mean, that's what I sorry.
Speaker 2: I hope that maybe anyone listening will invite me to
Speaker 2: the set to eat Chinese food on it. Okay, yes, please,
Speaker 2: she's just oh my God, crab rangoon ah. But I
Speaker 2: just don't get like how you would eat Chinese food
Speaker 2: for lunch in the middle of the day and then
Speaker 2: chase down a criminal like I'm heavy, so it makes you.
Speaker 1: Take a nap. It makes no sense.
Speaker 2: I don't know how they're eating Chinese food mid day.
Speaker 2: That is not a lunch food for me. Chinese food
Speaker 2: for me is it's Sunday night. Yeah, the oscars are on. Yeah,
Speaker 2: let's binge e, That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: not sensibly eating Chinese food for lunch. No, even if
Speaker 2: you have a lunch special, I'd rather have sushi.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Novak says, we got fucked up and says everything she's learned,
Speaker 2: and these are some of my favorite moments when they
Speaker 2: give someone a deal, like the case is you know,
Speaker 2: double jeopardy, baby, So it's there, so there's opportunity, there's
Speaker 2: intent and double jeopardy.
Speaker 3: Like fuck, this is such a good episode.
Speaker 2: The max sentence of what happened in court is only
Speaker 2: four years and as little as probation, so Stabler's like, well,
Speaker 2: let's just try to get him four year max. But
Speaker 2: Cassandra has to speak at the sentencing hearing, but she
Speaker 2: refuses because she feels guilt, like it's her.
Speaker 1: Fault that Riley is dead.
Speaker 2: Maloney says, listen, then we need a confession, and guess what,
Speaker 2: I'll be the man to beat it out of him.
Speaker 1: That's a joke, Okay. So they're at the.
Speaker 2: High school in the books and like, Scott and his
Speaker 2: two friends are walking and talking poker and Maloney poker.
Speaker 1: A role again, a theme.
Speaker 2: A theme, And then Maloney tells other boys like, oh,
Speaker 2: you got to watch out being friends with Scott.
Speaker 1: You don't know how you know his friendships don't really
Speaker 1: end that well.
Speaker 2: And he says, what's your problem, man? And they're like,
Speaker 2: we know you're banging a best friend's girl. So guy code.
Speaker 2: And he says, whatever, my one best friend is dead,
Speaker 2: the other won't speak to me.
Speaker 1: I don't care what happens to me. Take me to jail.
Speaker 1: I don't fucking care.
Speaker 3: I love him. He is very gen Z.
Speaker 2: This is this is a gen Z kid, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: slit my wrist into pieces, I don't care. So they
Speaker 2: didn't get a confession out of him like they thought,
Speaker 2: but it would be insane if they got like an
Speaker 2: after high school confession out of this guy. So now
Speaker 2: they're pressuring Cassandra to testify. She's in her bedroom in
Speaker 2: a pink, preppy collared shirt on her bed, lavender pillows.
Speaker 3: It's like a very teen room.
Speaker 2: There's a puffy hat like on the bed posts and posters.
Speaker 2: And her phone made me rem like nostalgic for the nineties.
Speaker 3: It was like a chord.
Speaker 2: It was just I want to hold that phone and
Speaker 2: makes fucking I.
Speaker 1: Want it a clear one where you can see all
Speaker 1: the gears inside. I love that one. I had it.
Speaker 2: I got it at amazing Savings and a meantal lot
Speaker 2: to me. So she's saying that she led him on
Speaker 2: and so it's her fault, but I just loved Riley
Speaker 2: so so much, and they're like, well, why did you
Speaker 2: cheat on him? And Riley dumped her, and so she
Speaker 2: was because she was too needy and was so sad
Speaker 2: that she cried to Scott. So she was like crying
Speaker 2: to Scott, begging him to talk to Riley, but instead
Speaker 2: they hugged and then hooked up. Benson is saying, so
Speaker 2: Scott took advantage of you, but she says, no, I
Speaker 2: always feel someone wanted as a foster kid, and Scott
Speaker 2: made me feel like really wanted.
Speaker 3: So she's like pretty self.
Speaker 2: Aware in a way of like knowing her feelings and
Speaker 2: why she was so into that. So her lips are
Speaker 2: so glost during this, which is like I remind you,
Speaker 2: like is this a Landcom juicy tube?
Speaker 1: Like what did they use? For sure? Juicy tubes?
Speaker 2: And of course pigtails still because she's a baby, so
Speaker 2: like her and Riley got back together the next day,
Speaker 2: so she really regrets it, and Benson says, if you
Speaker 2: want to make amends, like you should speak at the hearing.
Speaker 2: She tears up, she thinks and agrees, and now it's
Speaker 2: time for the trial to begin again, so Ryan not
Speaker 2: trial like sentencing, sentencing. So Riley's parents make a statement
Speaker 2: and you know they're sad their kids dead, and we
Speaker 2: have Judge Karen Taytan played by Patricia Calimber who caras
Speaker 2: from Westport, Connecticut.
Speaker 1: Oh love it. And I'm an old fan of Patricia
Speaker 1: Calember because she was in a show called Sisters that
Speaker 1: I watched kind of religiously when I was a kid.
Speaker 1: That was Cela Ward, Swoozy Kurtz, Patricia Calimber, and one
Speaker 1: other actress I can't remember, and it was these four
Speaker 1: sisters or five sisters that all had boy names. I
Speaker 1: think she was Georgie, Teddy Alex.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they had one hundred and twenty seven episodes and
Speaker 2: I had never heard of it, and I knew you
Speaker 2: probably watched it.
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh, I was so into sisters. It was like
Speaker 1: a nighttime soapy show about these sisters and I just
Speaker 1: like loved it.
Speaker 2: Well, and you know who Swoosie is. Swoozie kurt Susie Kurtz.
Speaker 2: She played the judge who sold teens to a teen
Speaker 2: jail for money. Yes, we're going to cover that one
Speaker 2: co didn't belong in jail, So that episode's called Crush
Speaker 2: and Swussie is a fun name. Yeah, And I just
Speaker 2: it makes the world seem so big because like I
Speaker 2: just I'm so into television and the fact that I
Speaker 2: have never even heard of a show that had one
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty seven episodes.
Speaker 1: You know what's weird, Lisa. It was on like Friday nights,
Speaker 1: which usually Friday night is like a TV graveyard, well
Speaker 1: teach Friday night, well right, but a drama, like a
Speaker 1: drama that was on at like ten I think it
Speaker 1: was on nine or ten on a Friday night. Like
Speaker 1: that's like goodbye, We're about to cancel you. But that
Speaker 1: show just kind of lived on Fridays for a really
Speaker 1: long time, and I loved it. I would watch it
Speaker 1: when I was babysitting, Like I don't know. It was
Speaker 1: all things that I was too There was women cheating
Speaker 1: on their husbands, and it was all shit that I
Speaker 1: was too young to be watching. But I was obsessed.
Speaker 3: What is Cela war known for?
Speaker 2: She was sh had another show right, She was in
Speaker 2: The Fugitive. She plays the wife of Harrison Ford who
Speaker 2: gets murdered in The Fugitive.
Speaker 1: That's one of my movies, favorite movies. And she's so beautiful.
Speaker 1: Cela Award, like I remember her sisters. She dated George
Speaker 1: Clooney and sisters and sisters. George Clooney was in it.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, they're together. Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, The Fugitive is in my top ten. I can't
Speaker 2: believe I didn't put that together. I love that movie
Speaker 2: so much, and I love Mulani's joke about it. Is
Speaker 2: he just going into my brain and telling jokes about
Speaker 2: everything I've ever loved.
Speaker 3: I don't understand.
Speaker 2: I think so so thank you for that sister's update, hm.
Speaker 1: But she but she's she has been on a lot
Speaker 1: of episodes of Best View, and I always am like Georgie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she was in one of my She's been in ten episodes.
Speaker 2: She was in Trade, which is with the Coffee Beans
Speaker 2: and they and the Real Life.
Speaker 1: Pedal, the Life from Seventh Heaven.
Speaker 2: Yes, so it's when Anne Warner from Legally Blonde is
Speaker 2: the sun.
Speaker 1: Oh? Yes, right? Am I wrong?
Speaker 2: That's just off the tip of my brain right now.
Speaker 2: I don't search it.
Speaker 1: I remember Warner. Maybe he is the son I don't remember.
Speaker 3: I think it is.
Speaker 2: So Riley's parents talk. They're clearly very upset their son
Speaker 2: got killed. It would be weird if they weren't upset.
Speaker 2: But Novak is chatting with Benson and stable A during
Speaker 2: the sad statement, and it's like, can you just not
Speaker 2: talk during these mourning parents talking. But the foster mother
Speaker 2: said that Cassandra left, so they have a problem. They
Speaker 2: need to find Cassandra. While they're looking for Cassandra, Scott
Speaker 2: explains to the court why they loved extreme fighting. They
Speaker 2: felt rejected from every other sport and really sucked at sports,
Speaker 2: but this was their way in. They really just loved
Speaker 2: beating each other up and they felt like God's He's
Speaker 2: at least okay that Riley died doing something he loved.
Speaker 2: And if I was his parents sitting there, I would
Speaker 2: lose it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he loved being in an abandoned like bleeding out
Speaker 2: slowly on a dirty mattress with the fuck getting hit
Speaker 2: by light tubes like scott a.
Speaker 1: Barb wire whifflebat like. I don't think this is dying
Speaker 1: room what he loved so fucked it's like I love
Speaker 1: watching SVU. I don't want to die watching SVU. And
Speaker 1: so that you guys can say she died doing what
Speaker 1: she loved. You don't know.
Speaker 2: But he is sad and he said he'll think about
Speaker 2: this forever. He gets five years probation and has to
Speaker 2: continue therapy. And then while Novak and the detectives are
Speaker 2: like walking in the court steps, they get a call
Speaker 2: from who they think is Cassandra and they're like, oh great,
Speaker 2: now she wants to call, but it's actually the foster
Speaker 2: mother and they have to meet Cassandra in the hospital.
Speaker 1: She got hit by a car. Dun dun, dun da dah.
Speaker 2: So Finn and Munch are looking at the CCTV guy
Speaker 2: footage of the car accident and it was a black BMW,
Speaker 2: so they're looking out for that, and who does the
Speaker 2: car belong to?
Speaker 1: They zoom in.
Speaker 2: And it's a driver and the driver is one of
Speaker 2: Scott's friends that Maloney saw outside the high school. So
Speaker 2: Finn's stabler don't even have to try that hard to
Speaker 2: get the city at to crack. This is like te
Speaker 2: ball for them. It's like so easy. And the dad
Speaker 2: is like, what is she dead? Who cares? And it's
Speaker 2: like she has a broken leg and her jaws wired shut,
Speaker 2: So like these parents, And I don't know if you
Speaker 2: you were not you did not know our friend Lauren
Speaker 2: at this time, but our friend Lauren had her jaw
Speaker 2: wired shut for a while during our friendship, and it's brutal.
Speaker 1: I knew a girl in high school who had it,
Speaker 1: and it seemed awful and she was just like sad
Speaker 1: to be around.
Speaker 2: She had a like bleck up burgers and drink them,
Speaker 2: and she was just wasting away in front of us,
Speaker 2: not being able to talk. And and then even when
Speaker 2: the jaw's not why you can't really move it.
Speaker 1: I remember New Year's like it was tough for her.
Speaker 1: So I'm but she's great now, Yeah, she's great.
Speaker 2: Her jaw is doing good.
Speaker 1: So they do tell this boy.
Speaker 2: They're like, listen, you're up for attempted murder, so you
Speaker 2: should talk. But like you're in trouble. Whether your dad
Speaker 2: thinks this is a big deal or not. But it's
Speaker 2: also like, dad, get your kid a lawyer. Why are
Speaker 2: you even talking to the cops, Like these parents, you'll
Speaker 2: know better. So they tell him he's up for an
Speaker 2: attempted murder charge, so you better talk, and he was like, listen,
Speaker 2: I wasn't even trying to kill her.
Speaker 3: I was just trying to rough her up a little bit.
Speaker 1: It's like, stop talking to the cops.
Speaker 2: This dad sucks. He's like whatever, she's not even dead.
Speaker 2: Tell him what you did? Like what the fuck? And
Speaker 2: he said it's because he needed the money. This is
Speaker 2: where the gambling dots come in and he got five
Speaker 2: hundred dollars to do it.
Speaker 3: Who hired you, obviously it's Scott.
Speaker 2: So they arrest Scott and he had this done because
Speaker 2: he didn't want her speaking at the hearings. So he
Speaker 2: is a bad person and he's been playing us all
Speaker 2: along this whole time, like, you know, just hit someone,
Speaker 2: Like what does she know?
Speaker 1: What are you scared?
Speaker 2: Of you're obviously lying, hiding shit, Yeah, what are these secrets?
Speaker 2: So Benson visits Cassandra in the hospital and she can
Speaker 2: barely speak, and of course, like you know, some makeup bruising,
Speaker 2: and you know, they tell her like he can get
Speaker 2: twenty five years for attempted murder and like you could
Speaker 2: have just only had probation or four years max, Like
Speaker 2: you're an idiot for trying to fucking run her over
Speaker 2: with a car. Before Benson can leave, a doctor grabs
Speaker 2: her to reveal some scoop. She says, the admission records
Speaker 2: say that she's sixteen, but her jaw X ray shows
Speaker 2: that she doesn't have buds, which are like a waiting
Speaker 2: area in your jaw, like for wisdom teeth, and they
Speaker 2: don't come out until adulthood. But she noticed that she
Speaker 2: had scars where the teeth are taken out, so she
Speaker 2: can't be sixteen. She has to be in her mid
Speaker 2: to late twenties, depending on the scar healing of the
Speaker 2: wisdom teeth.
Speaker 1: Do we actually feel our wisdom teeth like come in?
Speaker 1: I did. I had a lot of pain really when
Speaker 1: they came in, when they like broke through.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I waited forever. I got them done later
Speaker 2: in life. I was living in New York, so I
Speaker 2: was in my late twenties, so I don't know. I
Speaker 2: guess that's exactly.
Speaker 1: I just remember them. I don't remember them. I just
Speaker 1: remember them being like in my mouth, like I don't
Speaker 1: remember having like a teething process.
Speaker 2: Well, to get in detail, I actually found a really
Speaker 2: funny gift of a tooth doing this that I used
Speaker 2: for a while. But my wisdom tooth, instead of growing up,
Speaker 2: was growing.
Speaker 1: Into my other teeth.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, so like sideways, and that's maybe where my
Speaker 2: pain came from. And then I started an internet war
Speaker 2: on Twitter while it was high on drugs. But anyways,
Speaker 2: that's so funny. I felt like a queen. I loved
Speaker 2: having my wisdom teeth out. People brought me weed tincture snacks,
Speaker 2: everyone k paid attention to, and I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: So that's such a twist.
Speaker 2: But it's also like, aren't there exceptions to the wisdom
Speaker 2: teeth rule? Like I can't imagine this being like a
Speaker 2: hard and fast rule, but whatever. Benson rushes to the
Speaker 2: foster care files and needs them to see what's up
Speaker 2: and how did this happen?
Speaker 1: They have no.
Speaker 3: Records before she was found.
Speaker 2: She was just sleeping at a train station and they
Speaker 2: brought her in and it's like they don't Usually runaways
Speaker 2: don't grab a Social Security card or birth certificate, so
Speaker 2: that's it's not uncommon to not have information about a runaway.
Speaker 2: But it said that she did live in a group
Speaker 2: home in Pennsylvania. So Munch calls them and they have
Speaker 2: no record of a Cassandra Sullivan, but the center remembers
Speaker 2: a girl with the same kind of sob story, so
Speaker 2: everyone's a little bit suspicious. But they're going to send
Speaker 2: over a photo of her school ID, and uh, it's her.
Speaker 2: It's Cassandra, but her name is Loretta Sheridan. And I
Speaker 2: want to know how Neil Bhaer came up with these names.
Speaker 2: This seems very deliberate. Loretta is not a young girl's name. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: and she was in tenth grade. So Maloney and Benson
Speaker 2: go to the hospital and inform Cassandra on all the
Speaker 2: new evidence, and she can't speak because of the jaw surgery,
Speaker 2: so she starts to like dry erace writing and she's
Speaker 2: sticking to her guns and saying that's not me. I'm
Speaker 2: not Loretta, and she keeps gritting her teeth and saying
Speaker 2: go away, and it just all looks painful. She's doing
Speaker 2: an incredible job acting, and they're like, you're an adult
Speaker 2: and you're in fucking trouble. You shouldn't date high school
Speaker 2: boys or be in foster care. And she's very dramatic.
Speaker 2: She goes, Riley's dead, I will never date again. So
Speaker 2: maybe she is sixteen, and she starts crying and Benson's like,
Speaker 2: you need to stop crying. With your jaw wires shut,
Speaker 2: you're not going to be able to like breathe. So
Speaker 2: it's just a lot. So then the Dynamic duo go
Speaker 2: to see Novak and chat it out and see what's happening.
Speaker 2: And another alias come out and her name was Denise
Speaker 2: Pickering and she was arrested in Detroit twelve years ago
Speaker 2: and was sixteen at the time of the rest, which
Speaker 2: means she is now twenty eight.
Speaker 3: And then Benson kill her line. She goes, you gotta
Speaker 3: give it to her. She looks good for her age.
Speaker 2: The address in Detroit is a foster home she was
Speaker 2: placed in from her abusive home, so she was in
Speaker 2: rough shape when she arrived. She is someone that had
Speaker 2: a rough life but then aged out eighteen and was
Speaker 2: like pissed because she loved foster care, so she just
Speaker 2: wanted to like recreate that happiness. Novak says, she could
Speaker 2: go down for theft. She's been getting a free education
Speaker 2: and like using foster care stuff, and Stablers like, I
Speaker 2: think what's worse is hanging out with teenagers, maybe like
Speaker 2: not money from the government, but.
Speaker 1: Like raping kids.
Speaker 2: So they got to pull her out of school and
Speaker 2: stop the foster care money from coming in.
Speaker 3: So what's going to happen to her?
Speaker 2: Benson's really concerned for her because you know, she is
Speaker 2: sixteen in her heart. So Novak says, listen, she's pushing
Speaker 2: thirty and she needs to figure it the fuck out.
Speaker 2: Back at the precinct, Stabler has a redstawt in his mouth,
Speaker 2: making some precinct coffee and says, oh, did you get
Speaker 2: a chill up your spine?
Speaker 3: A defense attorney just walked in, so white Hair.
Speaker 2: Gates gets in and he goes, hey, I need to
Speaker 2: file a report of rape for Scott. He was attacked
Speaker 2: in high school by an old ass woman pretending to
Speaker 2: be sixteen, and that's statutory rape. And I want to
Speaker 2: arrest it and prosecute it. And they're like, well, he
Speaker 2: tried to murder her, and he goes, well, maybe that's
Speaker 2: why he did it. He was suffering from the rape
Speaker 2: trauma from rape trauma syndrome. And Stabler's pissed that this
Speaker 2: defense tactic and using like real stuff to finangle something
Speaker 2: that's not real.
Speaker 1: But it is real. What's happening? But why haven't you
Speaker 1: arrested her?
Speaker 2: And you know if like this was reversed engenders, there
Speaker 2: would be some arrests, and you've known for weeks. Why
Speaker 2: weren't we notified? So white Hair says, you don't have
Speaker 2: just like you. This discretion is fucked up and the
Speaker 2: reasons you're not arresting her are fucked up, and you
Speaker 2: need to book her right now. So Novak goes to
Speaker 2: the Bowery Safe Haven on Second Street to meet with
Speaker 2: our Pigtail queen and she's at the shelter and without.
Speaker 3: It, she would have been on the street.
Speaker 2: So thanks to Novak for helping her get the shelter,
Speaker 2: and she's trying to tell her to take the plea,
Speaker 2: but Cassandra's like, I didn't rape anybody. She keeps saying
Speaker 2: she's only sixteen. And she's like, drop it, Denise, or
Speaker 2: I'll take you to trial and Scott will testify against you.
Speaker 2: And she's like, I won't admit it, no, And Novak's like,
Speaker 2: you can go to jail for up.
Speaker 3: To three years, and she just won't do it.
Speaker 2: She goes, I'm going to go to court and I'm
Speaker 2: going to clear my name and I'm going to defend myself.
Speaker 2: Who Scott is now on the stand talking about how
Speaker 2: she said she was sixteen but is twenty and it
Speaker 2: made him feel sick to his stomach and creeped out.
Speaker 2: Fair Now Cassandra's in crutches, pigtails, a little schoolgirl outfit
Speaker 2: and she's sixteen in quote like about to question a
Speaker 2: suspect on the stand. It's like, it's just a real
Speaker 2: bonkers out of reality.
Speaker 3: He's seen.
Speaker 1: I just love this child in court right now.
Speaker 2: So they have a back and forth and she's not
Speaker 2: doing a great job as a lawyer. She's just making
Speaker 2: statements and arguing and everything's kind of wild and heating up,
Speaker 2: and Scott is really mean and talks about how Riley
Speaker 2: dumped her skanky ass and that she's a sicko and
Speaker 2: that he says he tricked both, that she tricked both
Speaker 2: of them, and she's like, I didn't ask you out
Speaker 2: or come on to you. I was crying on your
Speaker 2: shoulder and he says, you're disgusting, and she says, you're
Speaker 2: disgusting for calling Riley your friend after what you did
Speaker 2: to him. And he flips out in court what an amazing,
Speaker 2: lucky actor and an incredible performance and screams, I only
Speaker 2: killed him because of you. Cool confession too late, though,
Speaker 2: but nice. He jumps and screams.
Speaker 3: I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, you freak.
Speaker 2: And all these people have to hold him back and
Speaker 2: Novak's like, oh, this was your plan all along, like
Speaker 2: pretending you're sixteen and to do this, and she goes.
Speaker 1: No, I am sixteen.
Speaker 2: So we're in like the DA's office and Novak opens
Speaker 2: the door and lets in missus Hayes and she says, hi, Denise,
Speaker 2: you don't remember me, and she goes, no, YadA YadA. Basically,
Speaker 2: this woman is Jeanie, the first foster parent from Detroit,
Speaker 2: and she brings pictures and talks about a swing and
Speaker 2: Cassandra spent hours a day on the swing and that's
Speaker 2: so that's a cry for help. A swing for hours,
Speaker 2: you're a teen, get off the swing, like I just
Speaker 2: I don't know why you would swing for hours.
Speaker 1: But then she aged out.
Speaker 2: And she's like, I wish I could afford you, but
Speaker 2: we just couldn't afford to keep you. And she goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: they just dumped me onto the street and I had
Speaker 2: nowhere to go. She just finally had someone to take
Speaker 2: care of her, and she wanted to recreate that. So
Speaker 2: the detectives come in and Novak goes, oh, I think
Speaker 2: she'll take the plea now, but they look like they
Speaker 2: have some news. So Stabler says, I don't know if
Speaker 2: the other das will be as lenient, and she goes,
Speaker 2: wait what, And there's all these other boys. All these
Speaker 2: boys come forward. So Benson shows her a bunch of photos,
Speaker 2: a guy in Indiana, one in Maryland, one from New Jersey,
Speaker 2: and it is like, do you remember them? You had
Speaker 2: sex with these boys, and she goes, yeah, they were
Speaker 2: my high school sweethearts. Riley, wasn't the love of your life?
Speaker 2: You didn't love any of them? She says, I did
Speaker 2: love them. I love them all, but they all got
Speaker 2: older and I didn't and the lighting design is incredible,
Speaker 2: Like any influencer would be so jealous of the lighting
Speaker 2: on her face right now.
Speaker 3: And then yeah, she's an out of her mind predator.
Speaker 2: And that's dick wolf baby, and that's that twist turns,
Speaker 2: so many twists and turns.
Speaker 1: Wait until you hear the real story, girl, can't wait.
Speaker 1: Thank you for doing the research.
Speaker 3: I known nothing.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back, all right. So this is the
Speaker 1: story of Treva Thronberry. A lot of people have heard
Speaker 1: this story.
Speaker 2: Well, there wasn't a famous last name of a cartoon
Speaker 2: on Nicola the Thornberry's that's Thornberry.
Speaker 1: This is Throneberry.
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you.
Speaker 1: I originally thought her name was Triva Thornberry, but it's Throneberry.
Speaker 1: And she was born on May eighteenth, in nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: nine in Wichita Falls, Texas, to Carl and Patsy Thronberry.
Speaker 1: Her family later moved to Electra, Texas, which is where
Speaker 1: Triva grew up. In Electra, everyone knew her by sight.
Speaker 1: She seemed normal to everyone. She waitressed at a place
Speaker 1: called the Whifflestop. Hello, fred Green Tomatoes, and she had
Speaker 1: a couple weird moments people talk about, like she woke
Speaker 1: up one night in the middle of the night and
Speaker 1: told her niece there was a man outside with a gun,
Speaker 1: which was a lie, and she apparently collapsed in church
Speaker 1: at the altar was screaming at Jesus that she didn't
Speaker 1: deserve to live. So that was a strange a couple
Speaker 1: strange moments about her. But here's the deal. Treva and
Speaker 1: her three older sisters were all sexually abused by their uncle,
Speaker 1: Billy Ray as children. This guy was drunk and a predator,
Speaker 1: and he took a special liking to Triva, and he
Speaker 1: molested all the sisters. But they suspect that it might
Speaker 1: have gone like beyond touching and groping with Triva, like
Speaker 1: they all described him sneaking into their bed feeling them
Speaker 1: up and stuff, and then they think it might have
Speaker 1: even gone farther with Triva like this is honestly, this
Speaker 1: image really disturbed me, so I'm sorry that I'm describing it.
Speaker 1: But one sister said she came home once she was older,
Speaker 1: and she came home and found Triva just bouncing on
Speaker 1: her uncle's lap, like he was truly like bouncing her
Speaker 1: on his lap in a perverted way, and he had
Speaker 1: his hands up her shirt and she wanted to like
Speaker 1: reach out and protect her sister and pull her away,
Speaker 1: but she didn't because she was so scared of this man,
Speaker 1: and like that image just just like creeps me out
Speaker 1: so much. And I just think, what a sick fuck
Speaker 1: is that what bouncing on the knee originated from? Just
Speaker 1: perverting Like bouncing on the knee is one thing on
Speaker 1: the end of your knee. This guy was like bouncing
Speaker 1: her on his lap, like on his junk.
Speaker 2: Like he yeah, But I'm just saying, what's the point
Speaker 2: of bouncing anyone on a knee? And I wonder if
Speaker 2: that's like an act creepy thing that we.
Speaker 1: Just accept in society. Yeah, I don't know, Santa's lap.
Speaker 1: Are we still doing this in twenty twenty one? Who knows?
Speaker 6: So.
Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty five, Triva accuses her father, Karl, of
Speaker 1: raping her. Now there's absolutely no evidence of this, and
Speaker 1: all three sisters come forward and sign affidavits saying we
Speaker 1: don't think ours our father did this. They all maintain
Speaker 1: that their father never touched them. And Carl was like,
Speaker 1: what about the church that Triva is involved in, there's
Speaker 1: probably somebody there that molested her. Because they're trying to
Speaker 1: brainwash her to become a missionary. And the church people
Speaker 1: were like, well, actually, she told us she was scared
Speaker 1: to be at home and would sneak out at night
Speaker 1: to sleep in an abandoned house next door or in actual
Speaker 1: pews at the church. So they were just trying to
Speaker 1: help her by getting her into missionary work. I know,
Speaker 1: we have our feelings on missionary work, but the church
Speaker 1: was like, we didn't hurt her. So because of this
Speaker 1: allegation against her father, Treva was removed from her family
Speaker 1: in Electra and she was placed with a foster family
Speaker 1: in Wichita Falls, Texas, in December nine, ten eighty five,
Speaker 1: when she was fifteen years old, and she enrolled in
Speaker 1: the local high school there. Her foster mother was named
Speaker 1: Sharon Gentry, and she said she would find Triva at
Speaker 1: night curled in the fetal position in the corner of
Speaker 1: the room, the covers over her head, and sometimes they'd
Speaker 1: find her banging her head against the wall in her
Speaker 1: sleep and saying, please don't hurt me. I'll be a
Speaker 1: good girl. So like this case, when I first heard
Speaker 1: about it, I was like when I first saw the
Speaker 1: SVU and I knew there was a real okay. I
Speaker 1: was like, this is wild, how crazy or whatever. But
Speaker 1: this girl clearly had a horrible, horrible, abusive upbringing, and
Speaker 1: to me, that's like what leads to everything else that
Speaker 1: happens afterwards. So it's actually quite sad. So in May
Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty six, she told her foster mom that
Speaker 1: she was considering taking her own life, and literally the
Speaker 1: cops came handcuffed her and took her to a local
Speaker 1: mental hospital, the Wichita Falls State Hospital. Is that the
Speaker 1: best way to handle someone who's making, you know, statements
Speaker 1: about ending their life. I don't think so, but here
Speaker 1: we are in the eighties. She was there for five months,
Speaker 1: and apparently while she was there she said very little.
Speaker 1: She cried a lot, and she walked around with a
Speaker 1: vacant stare. They did give her xanax for anxiety. They
Speaker 1: gave her trilopon to combat what they called thought disorders,
Speaker 1: and tafrenil, which was an antidepressant. So she was on
Speaker 1: drugs at the mental hospital and the doctors had no
Speaker 1: clue what was wrong with her, and they called it
Speaker 1: a characterlogical disorder. And I feel like if she had
Speaker 1: come in today to a hospital. Hopefully they would have
Speaker 1: been like gotten to the root of her trauma and
Speaker 1: figured out what happened, But at this point they were
Speaker 1: just like, we don't know what's up with her. She
Speaker 1: might have some kind of weird personality disorder. Anyway, her
Speaker 1: parents came to visit her at the hospital and they
Speaker 1: demanded she recamped the rape allegation in front of her
Speaker 1: social worker and her therapist and stuff, and she refused.
Speaker 1: She was like, you're the ones that are lying. You
Speaker 1: don't love me, and I'm gonna I want to go
Speaker 1: back to my room. So after five months at that hospital,
Speaker 1: the doctor said that she was no longer clinically depressed,
Speaker 1: but they didn't know where to send her, and she
Speaker 1: begged to not be sent back to her parents. I
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. October of nineteen eighty six, she went
Speaker 1: to Lena Pope Home for Troubled Girls in Fort Worth, Texas,
Speaker 1: and she graduated from a nearby high school to that
Speaker 1: home called Arlington Heights High School in nineteen eighty seven.
Speaker 1: So she kind of spends the next decade bouncing around
Speaker 1: the country and using all these various aliases. I mean,
Speaker 1: she tells people she was a teen with an abusive background,
Speaker 1: and that she lived in homeless shelters and foster homes
Speaker 1: and enrolled in all these local high schools under these
Speaker 1: various aliases. And I'll get into it, but she told
Speaker 1: a lot of people that her father was a Satanist,
Speaker 1: that her father had raped her and killed her mother,
Speaker 1: and she had a lot of different other stories about
Speaker 1: being raped by a Satanic cult, and there was a
Speaker 1: lot of you know, the eighties was the Satanic Panic,
Speaker 1: which I've talked about before. So that was I think
Speaker 1: a buzzy thing you could talk about and say, oh,
Speaker 1: this happened to me, and people either might not not
Speaker 1: ask that many questions, or they might get they might
Speaker 1: believe you without as many details because oh, the Satanic
Speaker 1: cult like covered it up, you know, because everyone was
Speaker 1: kind of just blind believing in all the Satanic Panic.
Speaker 1: But she consistently made accusations of sexual abuse against people
Speaker 1: throughout her travels, So whether those were true or not
Speaker 1: is hard to say, but they were mostly never prosecuted.
Speaker 1: And I'll get into it. So she graduates high school
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty seven, bounces around a little bit, gets
Speaker 1: like some hotel jobs as maids or whatever, in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety three, she's in Corvallis, Oregon, as a teenager named
Speaker 1: Kylie tethrown Berry Smitt and Kylie Smitt, But it's k
Speaker 1: e I l I. I've never heard that spelling of
Speaker 1: Kylie but I or Kaylee. Maybe maybe it's Kaylee. And
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety four, she pops up in Cordelaine, Idaho,
Speaker 1: where Shasta Groni was taken. We talked about that town,
Speaker 1: and there she told police her name was Kara Leanna Davis,
Speaker 1: but Kara with a C. She said her mother had
Speaker 1: been murdered and her father was a police officer, had
Speaker 1: been a member of a Satanic cult and had repeatedly
Speaker 1: raped her.
Speaker 3: After two months in Cordelaine.
Speaker 1: She vanished. Next she shows up in Plano, a suburb
Speaker 1: of North Dallas, and there she tells police that her
Speaker 1: name is Kara with a ka. A good choice. Her
Speaker 1: name is Kara, Williams said. She tells police that she's
Speaker 1: sixteen years old, that she'd been born and raised in
Speaker 1: a Satanic cult, and she'd been taught to honor Satan,
Speaker 1: and that she would die in a lake of fire.
Speaker 1: And she said, all these children she grew up with
Speaker 1: had been sacrificed and stabbed to death with daggers, and
Speaker 1: the police are just kind of like wow, like listening
Speaker 1: to these stories. She said her own mother had been
Speaker 1: murdered by her father, who was a cult leader, and
Speaker 1: that he raped her repeatedly, and that at bedtime she
Speaker 1: was forced to champ prayers to Lucifer. So eventually they
Speaker 1: found her out in Plano. They found out that she
Speaker 1: was lying, and she vanished again. In June of nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety six, she shows up as Emily Cahara Williams in Asheville,
Speaker 1: North Carolina, where she tells the police that she's on
Speaker 1: the run from a cult in Texas. And then later
Speaker 1: that same year, in nineteen ninety six, she's in Altoona,
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania as Stephanie Danielle Lewis. So after teen days of investigation,
Speaker 1: the police contacted a girl that Triva had known in
Speaker 1: Texas and found out who she really was. So in
Speaker 1: al Tuna, she was arrested and charged with giving false
Speaker 1: information and sentenced to nine days in jail. After she
Speaker 1: was released, she disappeared again and moved on to the
Speaker 1: next one. Yeah, nine days, that's spring break. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't understand the short sentence. But also she I
Speaker 1: guess there she hadn't fully gotten into like she hadn't
Speaker 1: fully gotten into foster care. Maybe so she hadn't like
Speaker 1: been charged with like theft or you know, maybe it
Speaker 1: was hard to charge her with anything, just like false identity.
Speaker 1: As social worker in Altuna had actually gotten her parents
Speaker 1: on the phone. And when they got the parents on
Speaker 1: the phone, she said to her dad, you sound like
Speaker 1: an awful nice man. I wish you were my father,
Speaker 1: but you're not. And he and she said, I'm not
Speaker 1: who you think I am. So after al Tuna, she
Speaker 1: was in Louisiana, New Jersey, Ohio, and she would always
Speaker 1: show up at youth shelters with luggage, a Teddy Bear,
Speaker 1: a bible, a flute with some sheet music and some
Speaker 1: algebra homework like the high school kid's handbook.
Speaker 2: And what was the social I don't get the parents.
Speaker 2: So the social order got the parents on the phone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, got her actual parents on the phone and they
Speaker 1: were like, Treva, are you okay? And she was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not Triva. Sorry, I don't know who you are,
Speaker 1: Like she was just denying that she knew them. So
Speaker 1: all in all, she used about eighteen teenage aliases. And
Speaker 1: here's a fun tidbit. She joined the tennis team at
Speaker 1: every school that she that she lived in and went to.
Speaker 1: And she was shit at tennis. She was terrible, like
Speaker 1: they said, she was always awful and like always lost
Speaker 1: her matches, but never stopped trying. So in nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 1: this is like, this is kind of her big stop. Okay.
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety seven she shows up in this tennis
Speaker 1: Thing's gonna make me laugh. For a few weeks, she
Speaker 1: had tennis posters on her wall and stuff too, And
Speaker 1: I remember that being very that was very late eighties
Speaker 1: early nineties. I knew so many girls had had like
Speaker 1: Jennifer Capriotti and like, you know, like what who is
Speaker 1: Monica Cellis? Posters up likeness girls were like the hot
Speaker 1: thing back then. I don't know if it was like
Speaker 1: an Olympics here or what. But in ninety seven she
Speaker 1: shows up as Brianna Stewart in Portland, Oregon and Vancouver, Washington,
Speaker 1: So I don't another article said ninety eight, so I
Speaker 1: think in ninety seven she was in Portland. She makes
Speaker 1: her way to Vancouver, Washington, not Canada. In nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 1: and she enrolls in Evergreen High School, which is an
Speaker 1: ironic as fuck name I think for to be someone
Speaker 1: who is never aging. Going to Evergreen High School is
Speaker 1: very funny to me. So she had a boyfriend for
Speaker 1: a year and a half while she was Evergreen. His
Speaker 1: name is Kenny Dunn. They went to a Sadie Hawkins
Speaker 1: dance together in matching outfits, and I'm going to describe
Speaker 1: the matching outfits to you. They were wearing maroon T shirts,
Speaker 1: denim overalls, and Chuck Taylor's and I can put this
Speaker 1: in our stories, but the picture is quite funny. I mean,
Speaker 1: turn the T shirt into a crop top and I'd
Speaker 1: wear that, yeah, But with your boyfriend to a dance,
Speaker 1: I mean it was like it was the coordination. It's
Speaker 1: the picture is too teenage embracing wearing matching outfits. It's
Speaker 1: very funny.
Speaker 2: And I know obviously this case started in a very
Speaker 2: serious manner, but this is the time of my life.
Speaker 2: This is so funny. I feel like I'm in sweet.
Speaker 2: Like all the name, like all two Court, like all
Speaker 2: the names are very funny. All her aliases are silly.
Speaker 2: But it's just like all of this could have been
Speaker 2: avoided if they didn't like lock her, like if they
Speaker 2: handled the abuse with the uncle. Yes, if like the
Speaker 2: uncles put away, she got the therapy she needed, was
Speaker 2: treated like a true victim of assault, like she could
Speaker 2: have continued like all of this is a symptom of
Speaker 2: people fucking her over.
Speaker 1: Yeah, completely, So honestly, what everything she does is kind
Speaker 1: of funny because she doesn't I will I won't say
Speaker 1: she has her crimes are completely victimless because I'll get
Speaker 1: into it. But she is mostly not hurting anyone, and
Speaker 1: she's been so hurt, so it's kind of easy to
Speaker 1: be like, oh, this is silly. She's wearing these matching
Speaker 1: outfits and while they while the song Shania Twains, You're
Speaker 1: still the one played, Kenny kissed Brianna on the dance
Speaker 1: floor at the Stadie Hawkins dance and told him that
Speaker 1: he loved her. So they were in this very serious
Speaker 1: relationship and she eventually ended up opening up to him
Speaker 1: about her abuse. But she claimed that she was from Mobile, Alabama,
Speaker 1: still that her stepdad had murdered her mom and that
Speaker 1: he habitually raped her and all this stuff, and that
Speaker 1: was kind of what was going on in her life
Speaker 1: in Vancouver. Also in Vancouver, she falsely accused a forty
Speaker 1: seven year old security guard named Charles Blankenship of rape.
Speaker 1: She was actually twenty eight at the time of this,
Speaker 1: and he pled guilty to having sex with a miner
Speaker 1: and was sentenced to fifty days in jail. So after
Speaker 1: it was exposed later that she was a fraud a
Speaker 1: judge of sponge blanken Ship's conviction, but he still spent
Speaker 1: fifty days in a year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he thought she was sixteen, so he would
Speaker 2: trape another team and he was fine to do it.
Speaker 2: So yeah, maybe on a technicality, fine, but like still a.
Speaker 1: Shady character, exactly exactly. So basically what was going on
Speaker 1: with Brianna towards the end of high school was she
Speaker 1: really needed a Social Security number so she could get
Speaker 1: a job, a license, a credit card. I mean, you
Speaker 1: really can't do anything with your life without a social
Speaker 1: and a lot of people in Washington State were trying
Speaker 1: to help her. They were trying to track down her identity,
Speaker 1: get her a social but it was obviously very hard
Speaker 1: to track down her identity because she was like lying
Speaker 1: about all the details. Like people were really coming out
Speaker 1: to help her social workers, detectives like people were contacting
Speaker 1: the FBI trying to find records of this satanic step
Speaker 1: dad who was also a cop, like or that. Maybe
Speaker 1: that wasn't even the current story, but you know, they
Speaker 1: were all trying to find, like follow these leads from
Speaker 1: her stories, but nothing ever panned out because none of
Speaker 1: this shit was real. She even at one point took
Speaker 1: a bus to Mobile, Alabama, where a police officer drove
Speaker 1: her around to see if anything jogged her memory, and
Speaker 1: she'd be like, oh, yeah, I remember swinging on that swing,
Speaker 1: or like I remember going to this playground or whatever,
Speaker 1: and like none of that was true, Like, for all
Speaker 1: we know, she'd never even set foot in Mobile, Alabama
Speaker 1: at the time. A dentist in Portland this is what
Speaker 1: ties in exactly to the episode, noticed that Stuart no
Speaker 1: longer had wisdom teeth and that the scars from their
Speaker 1: extraction were healed, which was unusual for a teenager. And
Speaker 1: when the social worker confronted Brianna about the dentist from
Speaker 1: like the dentist in full like, oh, do you know
Speaker 1: what happened with your wisdom teeth or whatever, Brianna wrote
Speaker 1: a five page like a manifesto about how her word
Speaker 1: is bonde and she was not lying, and when she
Speaker 1: told her boyfriend Kenny, can you believe what this social
Speaker 1: worker said about my wisdom teeth? Kenny was like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe that is something, maybe that's like a clue to
Speaker 1: your identity. She flipped out on him, and he just
Speaker 1: kind of was like, Okay, never mind, because he loved
Speaker 1: her so much and just wanted to keep the relationship afloat.
Speaker 1: So everything was okay in their relationship until at the
Speaker 1: end of their junior year. Brianna was staying with the
Speaker 1: Gombetta family, whose son was good friends with Ken Kenny,
Speaker 1: her boyfriend, and the Gambetta's had been treating Brianna like family.
Speaker 1: They'd given her a bedroom an allowance of ten dollars
Speaker 1: a week, she had her tennis posters up on the wall.
Speaker 1: Everything was cool, and then in nineteen ninety nine, Brianna
Speaker 1: called the cops and told them that David Gambetta, the
Speaker 1: father of the family, had been spying on her while
Speaker 1: she was changing using little cameras he put in the
Speaker 1: light fixtures in her room. After a quick investigation, the
Speaker 1: police decided that these accusations were totally groundless and the
Speaker 1: Gambetta's kicked Brianna out. So it's interesting, like she kind
Speaker 1: of does a lot of she does. She makes accusations
Speaker 1: against people a lot of times, almost in a form
Speaker 1: of self sabotage, because a lot of times it kicks
Speaker 1: her out of the place where she is and at home.
Speaker 1: She did it on purpose. I think she did the
Speaker 1: ripe accusation against her dad because she knew I would
Speaker 1: just get her out of the house and that her
Speaker 1: dad would never believe her about the uncle anyway. She
Speaker 1: kept insisting she was telling the truth, but Ken Now
Speaker 1: was like, I don't believe you, Like he was starting
Speaker 1: to think back on all of the stories she ever
Speaker 1: told and was like, holy shit, Like what if she
Speaker 1: made everything up? So they end up breaking up. She
Speaker 1: graduates from Evergreen High School in the year two thousand
Speaker 1: with a two point eight three grade point average, and
Speaker 1: it's worth noting that she got a d in drama,
Speaker 1: which is nuts because she seems like she's a pretty
Speaker 1: great actress pretending to be sixteen across eighteen different towns.
Speaker 1: She spent the summer after her graduation answering phones for
Speaker 1: the Ralph Nader presidential campaign. But mostly she was focused
Speaker 1: on getting that social baby. She wrote a six page
Speaker 1: letter to the governor of Washington. She got two lawyers,
Speaker 1: one in Portland and one in Vancouver, Washington, neither of
Speaker 1: whom knew what the other one was doing. So the
Speaker 1: Vancouver lawyer sued the state to force the Vital Records
Speaker 1: Office to issue Brianna a birth certificate. He gave them,
Speaker 1: you know, high school transcripts, her state license or her
Speaker 1: state picture ID, medical statements about her mental health, and
Speaker 1: weeks later the state Deputy Attorney General said he would
Speaker 1: not oppose Brianna's petition for a birth certificate, so she
Speaker 1: was literally all she had to do was show up
Speaker 1: in March of two thousand and one for a court appearance,
Speaker 1: and she was about to get a birth certificate, which
Speaker 1: would have led to a Social Security card. Unfortunately, she
Speaker 1: also hired this Portland lawyer. The Portland lawyer petitioned the
Speaker 1: federal government directly asking them to give Brionna social number.
Speaker 1: But for this, he said, Brianna had to submit fingerprints
Speaker 1: just to make sure that there was no chance she
Speaker 1: could be someone else. So on March twenty second, a
Speaker 1: week before this hearing, was supposed to happen. Brianna was
Speaker 1: arrested on charges of theft and perjury because they found
Speaker 1: her fingerprints. The detective that arrested her told her she
Speaker 1: was thirty one years old. She had been illegally receiving
Speaker 1: free foster care and free public education from the state
Speaker 1: of Washington, and she told the detective like, oh.
Speaker 2: You know me, so thinks she'd get better grades after
Speaker 2: doing so much high school over it.
Speaker 1: That's what a lot of people say. A lot of
Speaker 1: people said. A lot of people said. That just goes
Speaker 1: to show you how much algebra sucks. That this girl
Speaker 1: took algebra like multiple times and still did not get
Speaker 1: good grades in it. Like so, but it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: who knows what her trauma has effect on her education.
Speaker 1: Her father was a sixth grade graduate who couldn't even
Speaker 1: read to write, so, like, you know, she wasn't from
Speaker 1: an educated family per se. So Rihanna obviously tells the
Speaker 1: detectives you've made some kind of mistake, and he's like, no,
Speaker 1: your Portland attorney requested your fingerprints, and they matched a
Speaker 1: woman from Altuna, Pennsylvania, by the name of Triva Throneberry.
Speaker 1: They obviously printed her before she did that nine day sentence.
Speaker 1: So if she hadn't hired two lawyers who were working independently,
Speaker 1: she might have actually gotten away with it because the
Speaker 1: Vancouver lawyer had her almost across the finish line, so
Speaker 1: kind of crazy. Once she was busted, a lot of
Speaker 1: people in the Vancouver area of Washington were divided on it,
Speaker 1: like a lot some people were like, Oh, she's a
Speaker 1: criminal mastermind, and others were like, no, she needs mental
Speaker 1: health treatment, you know, like she especially because eventually the
Speaker 1: story broke. Once this story came out, her sisters did
Speaker 1: come forward about what happened to them, and they all
Speaker 1: confirmed that they had been molested by the uncle. And
Speaker 1: but people couldn't figure out that after like she was
Speaker 1: busted in four different towns, she still never admitted that
Speaker 1: she was Triva Thornberry. And she must have known when
Speaker 1: she gave her fingerprints that they were going to pop.
Speaker 1: Like it's just like it's just kind of this intense
Speaker 1: delusion that she was really truly believed she was sixteen
Speaker 1: years old. And there's apparently barely any psychiatric literature that
Speaker 1: covers these the behaviors that Treva was exhibiting, Like there's
Speaker 1: just not many stories about somebody. There's obviously impostors, but
Speaker 1: they usually fess up, you know, especially confronted with fingerprint
Speaker 1: or like blood analysis and stuff.
Speaker 2: I'm wondering if this is a sibyl situation where it's
Speaker 2: like disassociating and putting the things behind and having all
Speaker 2: these different personalities, but instead it's like full reality, Like
Speaker 2: I understand, I can see that, Like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, some people said she might have Yeah, some people
Speaker 1: said she might have had multiple personalities. Others said disassociated
Speaker 1: fugue states, both things that you've mentioned. Like, so people
Speaker 1: were really trying to figure out what was wrong with her,
Speaker 1: and there were a couple of things, but she was
Speaker 1: never I don't think, like conclusively diagnosed. But basically no
Speaker 1: one from her family really contacted her after her arrest,
Speaker 1: like her sisters even like I just feel like her
Speaker 1: sisters so abandoned her, like even though I know they
Speaker 1: were scared, like they still didn't help her even after
Speaker 1: she was arrested, and like no one reached out to
Speaker 1: her except like a cousin of hers. Her dad was like,
Speaker 1: I didn't write because I can't read or write, and
Speaker 1: the mom was like and he also was pissed because
Speaker 1: he thought she was making up the story about the uncle.
Speaker 1: And it's like, dude, all of your daughters have said
Speaker 1: this happened, so you need to relook at your brother,
Speaker 1: Billy Ray. I don't know how else to say it,
Speaker 1: but this is a wild turn. Her mom, Patsy, said
Speaker 1: she didn't write because she was truly hurt by Triva
Speaker 1: abandoning the family. But she says she doesn't think Triva
Speaker 1: fully abandoned the family because she said in nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: eight when her mother died, when Patsy's mother died, so
Speaker 1: Treva's grandmother died, there was an elderly lady sitting at
Speaker 1: the back of the funeral wearing an old, faded dress,
Speaker 1: and that at the end, the lady brushed past her
Speaker 1: as everyone's leaving the funeral parlor, and Patsy noticed that
Speaker 1: it was a woman wearing a gray wig and granny
Speaker 1: glasses and had a ton of pancake makeup on her face.
Speaker 1: And she said, in my heart, I know it was Triva.
Speaker 1: Incredible went back to her hometown for her grandmother's funeral
Speaker 1: in like a legend.
Speaker 2: Goodness for SVU for bringing this story to the table,
Speaker 2: but the fact that that this is not a motion picture.
Speaker 2: That's what I said, and emburssing for everyone in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: I've looked it up, and I'm like, how has this
Speaker 1: not been a movie? Like, I bet you I don't know.
Speaker 1: You know, movie projects fall through the cracks all the time.
Speaker 1: But because I'll tell you, one of my sources is
Speaker 1: an amazing article from Texas Monthly and that'll be in
Speaker 1: our show notes and everything. But they did a very
Speaker 1: in depth, like full, really well written research on this
Speaker 1: whole story, and I'm like, someone definitely would have optioned
Speaker 1: that article, Like movies are getting made from articles all
Speaker 1: the time, and like this article should be optioned as
Speaker 1: a movie. Do we contact Reese Witherspoon like I do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's really unexplainable why this hasn't been a movie, but
Speaker 1: it has been an SVU Foux show, and there are
Speaker 1: more similarities coming up between SVOs, so just hold on
Speaker 1: to your butts. And they they said that one good
Speaker 1: thing that did come from her arrest was that her
Speaker 1: sisters did start speaking to each other and they all
Speaker 1: started like comparing notes about the abuse and like sort
Speaker 1: of talking about their abuse that they had experienced. So
Speaker 1: I don't think that anything ever fucking happened to this
Speaker 1: pervert uncle, but at least a sisters maybe started getting
Speaker 1: some you know, their head wrapped around their trauma and everything.
Speaker 1: The prosecutor, much like in the SVU episode, offered Treva
Speaker 1: a plea bargain of two years in prison if she
Speaker 1: admitted who she was. She wouldn't take the deal. Okay,
Speaker 1: she had a quart a pointed attorney, she had multiple
Speaker 1: quarter pointed attorneys. She fired them because she thought that
Speaker 1: they were planning to argue, which they were, that she
Speaker 1: was Treva Thornberry, but that she didn't know she was
Speaker 1: committing a crime because she truly believed she was Breonna Stewart.
Speaker 1: So she fires her attorneys, and just like in the episode,
Speaker 1: she represents herself because she had actually in high school.
Speaker 1: In her time at Evergreen High, she had expressed an
Speaker 1: interest in becoming a lawyer, and so this was probably
Speaker 1: like kind of the ultimate school play for her. Like that,
Speaker 1: she gets to go in and defend herself in court
Speaker 1: and she says the exact same thing that Cassandra said.
Speaker 1: I also think Cassandra Sullivan Brianna Stewart, they're like similar
Speaker 1: names in a weird way. She wanted to convince the
Speaker 1: jury that she was Brionna Stewart, and she said, quote,
Speaker 1: it's very important for me to clear my name, which
Speaker 1: is something Cassandra said as well. Okay, So Brianna slash
Speaker 1: Treva's trial began in November of two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: and she would come into court with law books, like
Speaker 1: a stack of law books. She would have her hair
Speaker 1: and braids, and she had wore denim ankle length skirts.
Speaker 1: Lisa I was like waiting on Lisa to comment about it.
Speaker 1: I know that's religious uniform, but this is also what
Speaker 1: this girl was wearing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, watch Long's long denim skirts will be in next year. Yeah, well,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm wearing my long khaki skirt with a slit.
Speaker 3: I've been worrying.
Speaker 1: I know I've been seeing you wearing that. It shows
Speaker 1: and it looks great. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I start my show and I go, I'm doing a
Speaker 2: little sexy menonit vibe and then everyone laughs and you know.
Speaker 1: Great, all right, I love it.
Speaker 2: But that is a Halloween costume you would buy sexy Mennonite.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sexy Mennonite baby crop top khaki skirt. I just
Speaker 1: love crop tops. It's I don't I love them? Yeah, no, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can tell a huge staple in your wardrobe. They
Speaker 1: really are. I want you to crop top our sex
Speaker 1: crime shirt because I don't think you'll wear that regularly.
Speaker 1: I think you should.
Speaker 3: No, I love a baseball tea.
Speaker 1: Oh long, you want crop chop it?
Speaker 3: I have my swim team high school.
Speaker 2: Baseball tea in my closet right now, from eighteen what
Speaker 2: is it?
Speaker 1: Third eighteen? I don't know maths from a while ago, yeah,
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago.
Speaker 2: Maybe that was the best part about losing weight at
Speaker 2: my parents' house, was I am wearing my Victoria's Secret
Speaker 2: pink shirts.
Speaker 1: I'm wearing my swim team shirts. You're taking a walk
Speaker 1: down memory lane startorially.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then not yet, but once I get my
Speaker 2: guests Denham skirt out, my personality will never.
Speaker 1: Be the same. Can't wait. Okay. So she's coming into
Speaker 1: court every day in the long skirts. She's smiling at
Speaker 1: the judge, whose name is Judge Robert Harris, and she's
Speaker 1: got this little girl voice, and she'll just be like
Speaker 1: hi every morning. And I think that's probably why they
Speaker 1: had this girl specifically also have this very high voice
Speaker 1: in the show. It was very like a little girl voice.
Speaker 1: And then the judge apparently was like so thrown by her,
Speaker 1: like he never knew what to do with her, and
Speaker 1: like he would be like hello, miss Stewart, misthrown Berry whatever,
Speaker 1: like he would just have like full like little uh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like John c Riley would play the judge like
Speaker 2: this needs yes, this wee do, this needs to happen.
Speaker 1: Lily Ryan Hart can play Treva. Yeah. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: sure some actress that's in her thirties would want to
Speaker 1: be like, yes, put me in a movie where I'm
Speaker 1: playing sixteen. Let me prove it to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Sir Povitski, I mean I don't know. We got
Speaker 2: I'm calling our manager immediately.
Speaker 1: I ester Kovitsky would be a good casting for that. Actually,
Speaker 1: she does have a little girl look listen, I have
Speaker 1: a gift. Yeah, I'll cast a movie now. That is
Speaker 1: so insulting to casting people.
Speaker 3: Casting.
Speaker 2: You know, one time I was in a meeting at
Speaker 2: like CBS or something, and I said casting agent, and
Speaker 2: they were like, we don't go by that, like they
Speaker 2: got pissed.
Speaker 3: Oh cool, toy, it's casting director.
Speaker 1: Okay, but I'm not trying to tell you what I'm
Speaker 1: just telling.
Speaker 2: You that I got yelled at by like eight people
Speaker 2: in a meeting, and I'm like I just got off
Speaker 2: the boat and came here, like not really.
Speaker 1: But okay. So Treva had a court appointed attorney sitting
Speaker 1: next to her all the time to answer any questions
Speaker 1: she had, but she actually seemed pretty comfortable like defending herself.
Speaker 1: She would just like literally go objection relevance and like
Speaker 1: she would just call it out and like smile at
Speaker 1: the judge. This bitch lived. Our dreams are dreams, and
Speaker 1: the prosecutor wanted to murder her. Like the prosecutor they said,
Speaker 1: you could just see him. His name was Kinny, his
Speaker 1: last name was Kenny, and you could they could said
Speaker 1: you could see him like clenching his fists. And he
Speaker 1: was like so pissed off that she was like playing
Speaker 1: this little game in the courtroom. And so an investigator
Speaker 1: from the prosecution took the stand and was explaining all
Speaker 1: the complexities of like the fingerprints, and then Treva would
Speaker 1: just like kind of nod, and then in her cross
Speaker 1: examination she asked him all these like pointless questions about
Speaker 1: ridge patterns and like different fingers and stuff, and it
Speaker 1: was like she was. It was like she was in
Speaker 1: high school, like asking a teacher, like about an experiment
Speaker 1: is what one article I read said so, And then
Speaker 1: like later another law enforcement officer told the jury about
Speaker 1: the way Kylie Smitt in Corvallis, Oregon had used all
Speaker 1: these aliases. She was like a mystified and she goes,
Speaker 1: why would somebody come up with so many names? It
Speaker 1: makes no sense, Like.
Speaker 2: Her brain was just not She ivusually the smartest and
Speaker 2: dumbest person alive at the same time. She's a hero
Speaker 2: and enemy of the state at the same like she's
Speaker 2: living all our dreams but lived a nightmare. This is
Speaker 2: the most complex character who wants an oscar. Let's go,
Speaker 2: let's get this going.
Speaker 1: And apparently right after she said that, she was like
Speaker 1: it makes no sense. She like turned and like beamed
Speaker 1: at the jury, and then the officer who was on
Speaker 1: the stand just like shrugged because I think he was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're even talking about. So, just
Speaker 1: like in the episode Kinny, the prosecutor brings in Sharon Gentry,
Speaker 1: Treva's foster mom from fifteen years ago, to testify that
Speaker 1: she had known Treva in nineteen eighty five. When she
Speaker 1: was sixteen years old. And this part apparently is like
Speaker 1: really really sad in the courtroom because like, Triva comes
Speaker 1: forward asks her to see some of the photos that
Speaker 1: she'd brought with her, and like they said, for the
Speaker 1: first time, she seemed actually really caught off guard and uneasy,
Speaker 1: and she just stared at this photo of herself and
Speaker 1: her foster mom on a beach, and then a photo
Speaker 1: of herself with her high schoo boyfriend from the time,
Speaker 1: and after a really long silence, she said, this Triva,
Speaker 1: in these pictures, what was she like? And her foster
Speaker 1: mom said, she was a very polite young lady. She
Speaker 1: enjoyed church, she enjoyed tennis. She had a wooden tennis racket.
Speaker 1: She was always very appropriate and very thankful. She always
Speaker 1: apologized if she hurt my feelings. And then Treva said,
Speaker 1: was Treva smart? And she said, oh yes, she loved
Speaker 1: to read and really enjoyed school activities. She made good grades.
Speaker 1: And then she said did she work hard? And then
Speaker 1: the foster mom herself was like struggling not to cry.
Speaker 1: She said she almost stood up and tried to hug
Speaker 1: her across the witness box because she just like wanted
Speaker 1: to give this girl a hug because she felt she
Speaker 1: was so traumatized and like confused obviously about her own identity.
Speaker 1: And she responded, she worked very hard, she tried hard.
Speaker 1: Triva was a wonderful young woman. And then Treva said, oh,
Speaker 1: thank you. So that was the end of the questioning,
Speaker 1: and that just sounds really heartbreaking. But for her final argument,
Speaker 1: she kind of just read out a short speed she
Speaker 1: had handwritten in one of her notebooks, and she said,
Speaker 1: I still say I am Brianna Rebecca Stewart. I don't
Speaker 1: pretend to be anyone else but me. Of course, she
Speaker 1: lost the case. It was pretty open.
Speaker 2: I mean, what a lucky jury, what a lucky everyone
Speaker 2: that got to be there to experience this. This is
Speaker 2: a once in a lifetime moment Like this has not happen.
Speaker 2: You do not get someone pretending to me a bunch
Speaker 2: of people representing themselves thinking they're sixteen.
Speaker 1: Like, I mean, I hope I'm not being.
Speaker 2: Too like disrespectful about all the trauma. But this is
Speaker 2: just the most sensational story I think we've covered, and
Speaker 2: we cover really wild ones and the imposter, but like
Speaker 2: this is cinematic and layered in the like the most unique.
Speaker 1: Way, and there's so much information.
Speaker 2: The fact that I didn't know about any of this
Speaker 2: to me, I thought, oh, okay, maybe found a couple articles.
Speaker 2: This is some little you know, but maybe it's based
Speaker 2: on like to have this much like I, oh my god,
Speaker 2: Neil Barry, get on the line.
Speaker 1: I've got. So the jury found her guilty very quickly.
Speaker 1: The judge sentenced her to three years in prison. And
Speaker 1: the problem the judge even admitted this. He said, the
Speaker 1: problem with prison in Washington State is that there are
Speaker 1: very limited mental health services available for inmates. So basically
Speaker 1: with these like non violent offenders, after her release, like
Speaker 1: she's just going to complete her sentence and she'll be
Speaker 1: sent out the door with maybe a tiny bit of
Speaker 1: money and a number for a woman shelter, and she'll
Speaker 1: basically she could just start this over again, like she
Speaker 1: might just go somewhere else in the country and start
Speaker 1: this again. Like nothing's really making her better, like this
Speaker 1: is not rehabilitating her. And Treva told the judge she
Speaker 1: would immediately file an appeal, and before she walked out
Speaker 1: of the courtroom, apparently she like looked out the window
Speaker 1: and just said, it's so unfair. It's so unfair. And
Speaker 1: a reporter who was standing nearby said, what's unfair? Are
Speaker 1: you talking about what happened to you a long time ago?
Speaker 1: And she looked at the reporter like really confused, and
Speaker 1: then said, my name is Breonna Stewart and I am
Speaker 1: nineteen years old. And as the baylists like put her
Speaker 1: in the elevator, there was like a crowd kind of
Speaker 1: gathered to see her, and she said, I'm nineteen. I'm
Speaker 1: not going guilty of anything except being a teenager. And
Speaker 1: she's a thirty one year old woman. So she was
Speaker 1: eventually released in two thousand and one after serving two
Speaker 1: years and three months of the sentence. Of the three
Speaker 1: year sentence, she's a free woman, as she insisted at
Speaker 1: the time of her release that she was still a
Speaker 1: twenty one year old named Breonna Stewart and not a
Speaker 1: thirty four year old named Treva Thrownberry. And when she
Speaker 1: talked to ABC in an interview, she claimed that the tests,
Speaker 1: the blood tests that they had done to match her
Speaker 1: to her family, had altered blood in their veins because
Speaker 1: family members had undergone treatment for cancer. And she said
Speaker 1: when persons have recent blood transfusions in cancer treatments, it
Speaker 1: does alter the chemistry of the blood somewhat. So she's
Speaker 1: clearly been watching SBU like she knows that there's that
Speaker 1: episode where leukemia changes the person's blood. Treva's father, whose
Speaker 1: blood was used for the DNA test, has never had
Speaker 1: any transfusions or cancer therapy. So even her excuse is
Speaker 1: like not holding up. And she said, I'm not Treva Thronebry.
Speaker 1: I just want to reiterate that I am not. No
Speaker 1: matter how much that family wants to suddenly produce their
Speaker 1: family member, no matter what they do, what they say,
Speaker 1: I am not Triva Throneberry, nor will I ever be
Speaker 1: Triva Thrownberry, because you can't make another person into somebody else.
Speaker 3: You just can't.
Speaker 1: And the last thing I found about Triva was that
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, she was working as a hotel maid
Speaker 1: as Brianna Kenzie, and she did accuse a man of
Speaker 1: raping her and he was like, she actually tried to
Speaker 1: steal my meth and punched me in the face. So
Speaker 1: like neither of them was ever charged, but she was
Speaker 1: fired from her job at that hotel. And I don't
Speaker 1: know what she's been up to for the past five years.
Speaker 1: But I'm sure our listeners will tell me. And that's
Speaker 1: that the thrilling, gripping.
Speaker 2: I but I also like, did I wonder if she
Speaker 2: like stopped at Brianna because then she got caught and
Speaker 2: all this stuff happened, or would she have gotten a
Speaker 2: new identity again, like she's now uck is Brianna? I guess,
Speaker 2: But like did she like that? Like wasnall?
Speaker 1: I think because Brianna was where she really dug in,
Speaker 1: Like she had a full like three years of high
Speaker 1: school there. She had a boyfriend there, like they were
Speaker 1: helping her get a birth certificate. I feel like that
Speaker 1: was the closest she thought to that was. I think
Speaker 1: she was sort of settling in too, Brianna Stewart being
Speaker 1: her future life. So I think that's why she was
Speaker 1: hanging onto it. And when you look at pictures of her,
Speaker 1: like google her, I mean, you could definitely buy that
Speaker 1: she's sixteen, but she also definitely buy that she's thirty one.
Speaker 1: You know, she looks a little older. But that is
Speaker 1: that story. And we have an amazing interview coming up,
Speaker 1: so get ready, Okay, We're really pumped for you guys
Speaker 1: to hear our chat with our next guest because we
Speaker 1: think some of you might know him. He's been on
Speaker 1: truly every procedural n CIS, Criminal Mind, CSI, CSI, Miami,
Speaker 1: et cetera. But he also famously played Mike Newton in
Speaker 1: the Twilight saga Bringing Any Bells, and some of you
Speaker 1: may know him as Luke Girardi from Joan of Arcadia
Speaker 1: as well, but today you met him as Scott Heston,
Speaker 1: and to us, he will always be the very talented
Speaker 1: actor Michael Welch. Check it out. Yay, Michael, thank you
Speaker 1: for joining me so much.
Speaker 6: Well, thank you for having me. Guys. This is this
Speaker 6: is going to be super fun.
Speaker 1: I can't wait a nice walk down memory lane.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, we're thrilled to have you.
Speaker 2: We obviously looked you up on the internet and you
Speaker 2: aren't booked and blessed so many IMDb credits one hundred
Speaker 2: and five you're working, so congratulations and talk about being
Speaker 2: a child actor and your life as a child star if.
Speaker 6: That's okay of course.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I sort of consider my career more like a
Speaker 5: like a cal Rippking type thing. Just you stick around
Speaker 5: long enough, eventually you're going to accumulate some numbers.
Speaker 6: Not but I'm I'm always just kind of there is.
Speaker 1: That a sports reference. I mean, I get it, but
Speaker 1: it's sporty, sporty sorr.
Speaker 6: I know you're crad.
Speaker 2: No, I would like to say when I played softball
Speaker 2: at cal Ripken Glove, so I was there, Okay, Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I started acting when I was ten professionally, and
Speaker 5: you know, of course my parents forced me into it.
Speaker 5: Was there was a lot of parallels between my life
Speaker 5: and Jackson five. No, it was actually it was just
Speaker 5: something that I always kind of wanted to try, you know,
Speaker 5: as a little kid. I mean any sort of old
Speaker 5: you know, home video footage was always just me performing.
Speaker 5: That's all I ever did, just reciting whatever the latest
Speaker 5: thing I saw on TV was, whether it was a
Speaker 5: commercial or whatever. So basically, you know, I don't know
Speaker 5: how much you want to hear. But long story short, like,
Speaker 5: my parents got me into a little local acting class
Speaker 5: when I was nine, just as an outlet to get
Speaker 5: out some of my energy. I went there for about
Speaker 5: a year, started to you know, get a sense of
Speaker 5: it and h and we sat down my teacher and
Speaker 5: I with my parents were like, we want to give
Speaker 5: this a shot.
Speaker 6: We didn't know anybody. We didn't know what we were doing.
Speaker 5: We were sort of lived in a suburb outside of
Speaker 5: La so honestly, like my mom just we went in
Speaker 5: the phone book, found a photographer. We made up headshot
Speaker 5: and they were not very good. It wasn't even like
Speaker 5: a person who did headshot. It was just like a
Speaker 5: photographer in the yellow pant. And then my mom just
Speaker 5: carried him around with her in her purse and we
Speaker 5: were just like, hey, whatever, we're playing with house money here.
Speaker 6: Like, let's just see what happened.
Speaker 5: Two weeks later, she's at the dermatologist office with my
Speaker 5: older sister, get to do a conversation with this woman
Speaker 5: who ends up revealing like, oh, yeah, I'm a I'm
Speaker 5: a talent manager for kids. I'm here with one of
Speaker 5: my clients. She's having acne issues. It was melacunis not
Speaker 5: the name drop, but just just because that's.
Speaker 6: A fun little tibo.
Speaker 1: Wait was it really?
Speaker 6: It was? She was there with Milo Mila was apparently
Speaker 6: having some acne.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I love that.
Speaker 5: And then my mom goes, oh, here, my son wants
Speaker 5: to be an actor, gives this random woman just my
Speaker 5: my terrible headshots and she was reluctant of course, at first,
Speaker 5: my mom is very pushy. She ends up looking at
Speaker 5: the pictures and meeting with me. I gave a terrible audition. Again,
Speaker 5: we didn't know anything, and for whatever reason, I don't
Speaker 5: know why, this woman saw something in me, she took
Speaker 5: me on as a client. She ended up being like
Speaker 5: one of the top managers for kids at the time.
Speaker 5: She had like you know, Hillary Duff and Brenda Song
Speaker 5: and like all these amazing clients.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 5: And she just like she just fought for me and
Speaker 5: she got me indoors. This is back in the day
Speaker 5: when not everything was submitted digitally. You actually had to
Speaker 5: like call the casting office convince them to see your client.
Speaker 6: This never would have worked now. I don't know. I
Speaker 6: don't know how.
Speaker 5: Anyone breaks into entertainment now because everything is digital, so
Speaker 5: there's not that like human element of knocking down the
Speaker 5: doors and making it.
Speaker 6: You know, you have to see this person. I don't
Speaker 6: care about their you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: So then basically, like the first job I got, it
Speaker 5: was as a younger version of Niles on the show Fraser.
Speaker 1: I saw that that was your first credit. It really
Speaker 1: warmed my heart.
Speaker 5: And all that was is like I just I love
Speaker 5: doing impressions as a kid. That was like the thing
Speaker 5: that I liked to do. And I guess I, you know,
Speaker 5: did an impression of Niles better than any other ten
Speaker 5: year old actor at the time.
Speaker 6: So I got that job.
Speaker 5: And then once that was on the resume, like that
Speaker 5: was when Fraser was in its stretch of you know,
Speaker 5: winning Emmys every year and number one comedy on you
Speaker 5: Must see TV, NBC, all that shit. So at that
Speaker 5: point that opened up other opportunities and then from there
Speaker 5: you just kind of build it a brick at a
Speaker 5: time and you keep going. So that's yeah, it's a
Speaker 5: crazy little story. No, no, two stories are alike with
Speaker 5: this stuff.
Speaker 2: Your mom is a hero to push you mothers everywhere
Speaker 2: and bless her. That's so awesome. So how did the
Speaker 2: SVU audition come about? Did you watch it you were young?
Speaker 2: I don't know if that was your vibe. Were you
Speaker 2: watching it NonStop? Did you send in a tape? Were
Speaker 2: you in New York? Like, do you remember any of that?
Speaker 6: Oh? I loved SVU at the time. I was a
Speaker 6: huge fan real I was so excited. Absolutely, I don't
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't know how this.
Speaker 5: Was season eight, So do you do you know what
Speaker 5: year this was what we don't have to do podcast map?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was like seven probably.
Speaker 5: Okay, so I was young, whatever it was. Basically, I
Speaker 5: didn't audition for it. So here's here's what happened. And
Speaker 5: I ended up getting a lot of parts that I
Speaker 5: didn't audition for, which sounds a lot better than it is.
Speaker 5: Here's what the reality is. I again, cal Ricken was
Speaker 5: around a while. I auditioned all the time, developed relationships
Speaker 5: with all these casting directors. Booked very little from auditions,
Speaker 5: and that's whether I just wasn't good at auditions or
Speaker 5: the theory.
Speaker 6: That I came up with later is like I'm not like,
Speaker 6: I'm not a specific type. I don't I'm not the obvious.
Speaker 5: Choice for anything in particular, but you can kind of
Speaker 5: plug me in anywhere.
Speaker 6: Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: So what what happened a lot is that casting directors,
Speaker 5: when they were in a pinch would call me. And
Speaker 5: this is something that people don't understand, Like, you know,
Speaker 5: these shows are such a machine. You know sometimes they
Speaker 5: literally you know, you're working, You're filming an episode in
Speaker 5: eight days. You know, it's like working sixteen hours a
Speaker 5: day sometimes they literally go, oh fuck, we never cast
Speaker 5: that part and it shoots in three days. And in
Speaker 5: those cases, that's when casting would call somebody like me,
Speaker 5: just somebody that they know like can do the job,
Speaker 5: and they don't have time to audition. So that was
Speaker 5: the case here. So I got the call, they flew
Speaker 5: me out to New York. It's also possible maybe they
Speaker 5: tried to find someone locally in New York and then
Speaker 5: didn't find anybody they liked, and then you know, went
Speaker 5: to the roll with Decks.
Speaker 6: However that worked out, yeah, and then and that's that's
Speaker 6: basically it.
Speaker 5: And then they they flew me out and honestly, my
Speaker 5: first time meeting everyone was for the first rehearsal of
Speaker 5: the first scene that we.
Speaker 6: Did, which is when I, you know.
Speaker 5: Come into the precinct and go, excuse me, I filmed
Speaker 5: my friend getting killed my open scene. And that's like,
Speaker 5: I mean, that was like it was in the middle
Speaker 5: of it was like Mike cue when I came in.
Speaker 5: And then that's when I sort of we stopped the
Speaker 5: rehearsal for a second so I could shake everyone's hand
Speaker 5: and say hi, and then just continued the rehearsal because
Speaker 5: they moved so fast in TV it's crazy.
Speaker 1: Was your hair already like that sort of like shaggy
Speaker 1: skater boy thing or did they do that for you?
Speaker 6: No, that was that was natural. That was that was
Speaker 6: the real deal.
Speaker 5: And maybe that was part of it too. Maybe they
Speaker 5: called my manager and was like, hey is he is
Speaker 5: he doing the shag?
Speaker 6: Look? Did he cut it? What's you know? We need shaggy?
Speaker 2: And being a fan of SVU, how did you feel
Speaker 2: when you found out you were going to flip out
Speaker 2: and core and confess on the stand, Like, what the fuck?
Speaker 1: That's like the that's like the coolest part you could get.
Speaker 6: I think, Oh, that's the dream, right, I mean, yeah,
Speaker 6: it's it's.
Speaker 5: So funny because, like you know, as an actor, obviously
Speaker 5: you're a fan of these things. That's why that's that's
Speaker 5: why you're an actor, because you want to be a
Speaker 5: part of these things that you love, and every now
Speaker 5: and then you get to do it. And yeah, it
Speaker 5: was such a great experience. I have, I mean a
Speaker 5: couple of funny like the things.
Speaker 6: That I do remember.
Speaker 5: I remember at one point Belser, it was during the sequence,
Speaker 5: so it's like they have to shoot kind of b
Speaker 5: roll footage of Hey, look they're being interviewed while you know,
Speaker 5: Benson and Stable talk about Look, he's been like they
Speaker 5: talk about the case or whatever. But then you just
Speaker 5: sort of see on camera on being interviewed. So Belzer
Speaker 5: is interrogating me about the Kennedy assassination. He's accusing me
Speaker 5: of being on the Grassy Knoll and he's like, you know,
Speaker 5: and he's like a huge conspiracy guy, right, So he's
Speaker 5: getting into all of his theories about it. That was
Speaker 5: his like, we have to look like we're talking about something.
Speaker 5: So that's what that's probably a go to for him.
Speaker 5: I would imagine, Oh my.
Speaker 1: God, that's so funny. No one has told us that.
Speaker 1: No one has told us yet, Like when you're doing
Speaker 1: like sort of fakey talk, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: And that's really great.
Speaker 6: Well, if you're talking to Richard Belzer about Kennedy.
Speaker 1: How was working with Barry Bostwick as your lawyer?
Speaker 5: He was really cool.
Speaker 6: He was a good guy. Wrote.
Speaker 5: The thing that I remember about him is we were
Speaker 5: sort of talking about the formula of shows like this,
Speaker 5: and he had mentioned that at one point in the
Speaker 5: series he was developing this kind of like flirtatious sort
Speaker 5: of side story, subtle thing with one of the other lawyers,
Speaker 5: which sometimes can just happen naturally, like as.
Speaker 6: An actor, if you're an actor.
Speaker 5: You're performing with somebody else, like you sort of find
Speaker 5: things and that aren't necessarily on the page. And he
Speaker 5: was like, yeah, when that went to air, they took
Speaker 5: a hatchet to all that shit, Like they have no
Speaker 5: they have their formula, they have no time for.
Speaker 6: Personal development of any of these characters. It's just all
Speaker 6: about the story.
Speaker 5: That's kind of the tidbit that I remember from him.
Speaker 5: And then I remember the prosecutor and I'm oh, I'm
Speaker 5: gonna Diana.
Speaker 6: It's a named Diana, dian Neel Dianell, thank you, who
Speaker 6: is awesome. By the way, couldn't have been nicer.
Speaker 5: She gave me some really good advice when I was
Speaker 5: doing the weird sort of you know insecure, I mean,
Speaker 5: I need enough actor thing where she basically said, listen,
Speaker 5: in TV, it's never as good as you think it is,
Speaker 5: and it's never as bad as you think of it,
Speaker 5: and especially on a show like this, which is like
Speaker 5: like the actor's job on SVU is basically to just
Speaker 5: be like stepherds of this story, Like, it's not about us,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. It's about these crazy fucking
Speaker 5: stories and we're just sort of there to like, I mean,
Speaker 5: we have a job to do to I guess bring
Speaker 5: our own sensibility to it or whatever.
Speaker 6: But it's not.
Speaker 5: It's you know, this is why I don't think to
Speaker 5: do a quick little side tangent. But I don't think
Speaker 5: criminal intent ever really works because Dnafria, as much as
Speaker 5: I love him as an actor, he made it about him,
Speaker 5: and it's like, dude, it's it's law and order. Bro,
Speaker 5: this ain't about you, right, Like, get out of the way.
Speaker 5: You don't have to be interesting. It's it's the stories
Speaker 5: are interesting enough anyway.
Speaker 2: Wow, love that insight. Thank you so much for that.
Speaker 2: I'm curious the Misty character. Was that her real voice?
Speaker 2: Did she put on a voice? What was up with that?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 6: No, that was that's the real deal. What mystery? Yeah?
Speaker 6: I knew her.
Speaker 5: She This industry is so incestuous, it's so funny. She
Speaker 5: was the daughter of a guy named Jim Hayman, who
Speaker 5: was the showrunner on a show called Joan of Arcadia.
Speaker 1: That what you were on?
Speaker 5: Yes, I was on for two years but you know
Speaker 5: Amber Tamblin, Joe Montagna, Jason Ritter, Mary Steambridge is like
Speaker 5: an incredible people. Yeah, so she had a little arc
Speaker 5: on that show, so I knew her from that, and
Speaker 5: oh no, that that's she was. She was perfectly cast
Speaker 5: in this role because that is that that's the that's
Speaker 5: the face, that's the voice.
Speaker 6: And I think she was.
Speaker 5: Like thirty five at the time when we shot that,
Speaker 5: so it was like, yeah, this.
Speaker 6: You couldn't hire anyone else better than Misty.
Speaker 1: For this amazing.
Speaker 2: So SVU fans were kind of lunatics, but I would
Speaker 2: assume the Twilight fandom is another level of yeadom.
Speaker 1: Do you get recognized a lot? Do are their teen
Speaker 1: girls chasing you down the streets? What is? Uh?
Speaker 3: What are the Twilight fans like?
Speaker 5: Well, what's funny about that now is that a lot
Speaker 5: of those fans gotten older and are having kids of
Speaker 5: their own and are like passing the fandom down to
Speaker 5: their kids.
Speaker 3: So wow, it's.
Speaker 5: Like, you know, it's like the Matthew McConaughey thing of
Speaker 5: like I keep getting older, Twilight fans stay in the
Speaker 5: same age. I mean, it's still you know, and I'll
Speaker 5: still have encounters with you know, twelve thirteen, fourteen year
Speaker 5: old girls that that are like just as passionate about
Speaker 5: this thing is they were a decade ago.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so that's a really that's a pretty.
Speaker 5: Awesome thing to be a part of it. I mean, listen,
Speaker 5: you know, it ain't like it was. I mean, there
Speaker 5: was a period there for a good five years that
Speaker 5: was absolutely insane. I don't think it affected my sort
Speaker 5: of day to day life. But when I got to
Speaker 5: be a part of like you know, all right, we're
Speaker 5: gonna fly you guys to Paris and you're going to
Speaker 5: do this thing in front of you know whatever it
Speaker 5: is six eight thousand, I mean.
Speaker 6: Like it's pretty intense. I mean it was.
Speaker 5: That was definitely my biggest connection to I don't know,
Speaker 5: something that was that prevalent in the in the in
Speaker 5: the pop culture zeitgeist at the.
Speaker 6: Time, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: Like I've never I've never quite had another experience like
Speaker 5: that one, and I'm ultimately very grateful for it. It was
Speaker 5: really I have nothing bad to say about that experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I did social media for MTV for
Speaker 1: like that time period for a little while.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, and like we.
Speaker 1: Would do interviews with towilet people, and I just had
Speaker 1: to with the fans, like forgot what they were called.
Speaker 1: It wasn't Twyhard's. It was like something else, but like
Speaker 1: there was like the Twilighters, the twilighters hashtag twilighters. They
Speaker 1: were just like rabbit Like I can only imagine me
Speaker 1: as like dealing with them from behind a computer and
Speaker 1: you dealing with them in real life. I just must
Speaker 1: have been like a different a different experience, but a
Speaker 1: legendary franchise to be a part of.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 5: It was. I mean it was like I think three
Speaker 5: out of our four movies were top ten on Netflix
Speaker 5: this week, so I mean it's still it's still going.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: The other thing, by the way, if you want to
Speaker 5: hear the lamest brag in the history of brags, we do,
Speaker 5: I invented the term twyhard. I know it didn't quite
Speaker 5: take off like Twilighters.
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to diss your hashtags.
Speaker 6: Oh no, please, I feel free.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't even.
Speaker 6: Like something I intended to do.
Speaker 5: I was I was doing like a blog at the
Speaker 5: time or something, and it was literally just a throwaway.
Speaker 5: It was just like I said, you know, hardcore Twilight fans,
Speaker 5: or as I call them, twy hard's, and then it
Speaker 5: just sort of took off. And then of course it
Speaker 5: became as everything does a competition, like well you a
Speaker 5: twy lighter or twy hard And then and I will
Speaker 5: say too, if I'm not mistaken, there's the other side
Speaker 5: of it, which is and I believe it was on
Speaker 5: an MTV website, so I'm not blaming you for.
Speaker 6: This, but I didn't do it.
Speaker 5: But it was also my first experience of like the
Speaker 5: meat grinder, of being sort of dissected on the internet
Speaker 5: right where I you know what it was.
Speaker 6: It was like it was a photo of me and
Speaker 6: then and that guy Boogoo and then.
Speaker 5: One other person I don't remember at Wango Tango or
Speaker 5: some something like that, and and I it was either
Speaker 5: on I think it. I honestly think it was an
Speaker 5: MTV website, but then the comments below it.
Speaker 6: I just I went down the rabbit hole and.
Speaker 5: It was just people picking me apart, like piece by piece,
Speaker 5: just like everything. You can imagine his oh, his his
Speaker 5: hair sucks, his teeth are too small, his nose is this,
Speaker 5: And I was and I couldn't.
Speaker 6: And I couldn't stop.
Speaker 5: I mean, after it was my first time experiencing this,
Speaker 5: I was like, well, let's see how far this thing goes.
Speaker 5: And after a while it became it was like every
Speaker 5: comment was just saying how shitty.
Speaker 6: I eat am and look and all the things.
Speaker 5: And then so, dude, I'm telling you, man like, I
Speaker 5: got a very very very very very very modest.
Speaker 6: Taste of what that was like.
Speaker 5: And boy, that that once a certain level of fame
Speaker 5: and and't for the faint to heart. I'll tell you
Speaker 5: that because you know, if you're sensitive at all, which
Speaker 5: I mean as someone who is a creative person, I
Speaker 5: don't know how you could do that without being sensitive.
Speaker 5: You know, it's u You just got to learn to
Speaker 5: compartmentalize that stuff. I guess I never did because I
Speaker 5: didn't experience enough of it, so when it did happen,
Speaker 5: I would just go down the rabbit hole, just more
Speaker 5: bid curiosity more than anything else.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I never read comments. Yeah, stay out of
Speaker 1: the comments section. Who says that, RuPaul? Somebody says, stay
Speaker 1: out of the comments section?
Speaker 2: Well, what other people think about you is none of
Speaker 2: your business, is what that just says? We noticed you
Speaker 2: were a sports fan on the internet. What athlete would
Speaker 2: you love to see guest star on SVU?
Speaker 6: Ooh, what athlete would I love to see guest star
Speaker 6: with you?
Speaker 1: Because famously athletes are not the best actors. But I'm sure,
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's somebody you have in mind that is
Speaker 1: could at least find a body.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Well, if there have been athletes, we've
Speaker 2: had Chris Bosh, Rick Fox.
Speaker 1: Has been on. I don't even know that.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Mike Tyson, Oh Tyson, Yeah, Mike Tyson was good.
Speaker 5: You know what I think would just be fun visual
Speaker 5: is one of these basketball.
Speaker 6: Players, somebody like like Anthony Davis or.
Speaker 5: Joel Embi, just to see them sitting in one of
Speaker 5: those little chairs behind the desk.
Speaker 6: I've seen these guys up close.
Speaker 5: Anthony Davis looks like he's standing on top of another
Speaker 5: really tall man. Like it doesn't it doesn't look natural,
Speaker 5: like people are not supposed to look like that.
Speaker 6: It looks uncomfortable quite frankly.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Joel EMBII is the biggest thing I've ever seen
Speaker 5: in my life, human or otherwise. So yeah, somebody like that,
Speaker 5: just purely for the size, and then and then the
Speaker 5: deep voice.
Speaker 2: Too, because and the eyebrows. Anthony Davis's eyebrows deserve to
Speaker 2: be honest.
Speaker 5: You absolutely, you would for sure be able to work
Speaker 5: that into the story somehow.
Speaker 1: Kara's impressed that. I'm so impressed. I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: even know who this is. I'm just imagining a very
Speaker 1: tall basketball player sitting behind an interrogation desk and that's
Speaker 1: it doing it for me. But you guys, are you
Speaker 1: actually know who he is?
Speaker 3: Wow?
Speaker 6: I'm sure I.
Speaker 5: Should have some some questions about his eyebrow be like
Speaker 5: a whole scene is just trying to.
Speaker 6: Figure out how the eyebrows.
Speaker 1: Got like that. Oh my gosh. He was so nice.
Speaker 1: So it's nice to meet somebody who has been working
Speaker 1: since they were a child and isn't messed up. And
Speaker 1: he's not messed up. He's cool or he's hiding it. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, we don't know what's going on in there
Speaker 1: or in that interview. He made us to think he
Speaker 1: was a totally normal dad. And we do want to
Speaker 1: mention that he has a Western movie coming out soon
Speaker 1: with the with the Legend Bruce Dern playing his father.
Speaker 1: So the title has not been released yet, but keep
Speaker 1: an eye out. Follow Michael on his social and check
Speaker 1: out that movie when it comes out, because that sounds
Speaker 1: I don't know, that sounds like Oscar bait to me.
Speaker 1: Anything with Bruce Dern that's a Western. But what did
Speaker 1: we learn on today's episode. I don't know. Some people
Speaker 1: feel free smacking each other with light tubes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, trying to get arrested with light tubes.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say. I learned that I really want
Speaker 1: to dress.
Speaker 2: Up like an old granny and visit a funeral. That's
Speaker 2: what I learned. Oh, and then you got to write
Speaker 2: a treatment for a movie makes the money. That's what
Speaker 2: I learned. Yeah, I like funeral games. I guess that's
Speaker 2: something I'm into just learning.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think we learned that just when
Speaker 1: we think we know the depths of people's trauma, it
Speaker 1: can go a level deeper. So it's just you never
Speaker 1: know where people are coming from. I guess. But uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: And we definitely learned that high school algebra is fucking
Speaker 1: impossible to pass, even if you've taken it ten times.
Speaker 2: Also, girl, all you had to do was not show
Speaker 2: up to court and like bother Diane Neal, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. Everyone could have just lived there, happy,
Speaker 2: you know, not the dead in.
Speaker 1: The TV show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, No, in the real life, lock up every uncle.
Speaker 2: I guess yeah, I've learned, lock up the uncles. They're
Speaker 2: doing a shady shit. When have you ever heard of
Speaker 2: an uncle doing a good job.
Speaker 1: Never. My brother Colin and my brother David are their
Speaker 1: great uncles. My brother Kevin has not been around my
Speaker 1: kids very much, but my brother those two brothers have
Speaker 1: been great uncles. It would be funny if I was
Speaker 1: fully serious. No, I know. My sister's marrying a guy
Speaker 1: named Tom and my dad my mom calls him tea
Speaker 1: dog because she's a dork, and Rosie calls him Uncle
Speaker 1: tea Dog. And she's obsessed with Uncle tea Dog. Like
Speaker 1: she literally is like, would I'll be putting her to bed,
Speaker 1: She'll be like, Uncle tea Dog didn't feel good because
Speaker 1: he like had a stomach ache one time two months ago.
Speaker 2: Like she loves talking about Uncle tea Dog, So there's
Speaker 2: good Uncle. I thought this was going to go into
Speaker 2: an Uncle Tom discussion.
Speaker 1: Oh, but I said that to him. I was like,
Speaker 1: it's kind of fun that we're calling you Uncle tea
Speaker 1: dog because Uncle Tom is awkward, right, And he was like,
Speaker 1: why and I was like, well, cauz, you know, like
Speaker 1: the Uncle Tom's cabin. And he was like yeah, but
Speaker 1: and I was like, I mean, we can definitely call
Speaker 1: you Uncle Tom, I guess, but you can't.
Speaker 2: You cannot be screaming, you know, a great America screaming
Speaker 2: Uncle Tom get over here.
Speaker 1: You can't see that Uncle Tommy. Tea dog for life
Speaker 1: is what? Yeah, it's gonna have to be tea dog.
Speaker 3: What else do you learn?
Speaker 2: I guess it's easy to just lie to people if
Speaker 2: you believe it enough, join a school, get foster carried.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know, the world's your oyster. It
Speaker 2: seems like a fun time being a liar.
Speaker 1: You can get anything you want. Yeah, it's so well
Speaker 1: because it's like, if she had not hired those two
Speaker 1: separate lawyers, she really would have gotten a Social Security
Speaker 1: and she would just be She would have gotten away
Speaker 1: with it the perfect.
Speaker 2: It makes me terrified because I'm out there trying to
Speaker 2: meet somebody, and what if I meet one of these
Speaker 2: lunatics that are just you.
Speaker 3: Know, fake social security.
Speaker 2: Well, because there's you know, I'm on BuzzFeed a lot
Speaker 2: because I'm not really a reader, and I go through
Speaker 2: the lists, and there was something about like many people
Speaker 2: will confess to murder on their deathbed to medical professionals.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, I think they're like dying and they're just
Speaker 2: like BT dubs, I killed some people.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess secrets do come out on your deathbed.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 1: I mean there's that famous Brian Dunny the episode of SVU,
Speaker 1: but it took a full, full forty five minute episode
Speaker 1: for him to confide I know me, I'm aloney.
Speaker 2: I had to like squeeze the oxygen right or is
Speaker 2: that to someone else? He had to play little games
Speaker 2: with the tubes totally. But are we just are we
Speaker 2: just having problems making connections because your birthday was recently?
Speaker 2: I might yeah, I don't know, because it's just like,
Speaker 2: oh I forgot. I don't know if they want to know. Listen,
Speaker 2: I did whippets and I love it. So we learned
Speaker 2: that yesterday. So that's also something we learned from this
Speaker 2: week's So maybe I will have permanent brain damage, but
Speaker 2: I do. I did love my evening of whippits and
Speaker 2: I was like, do you feel stupid or today?
Speaker 1: She was like, I don't know, but I did them
Speaker 1: for hours.
Speaker 2: Only my first time and I don't think I'm going
Speaker 2: to do it again until New Year's. But I think
Speaker 2: I'm going to do a whippet new Year's is what
Speaker 2: I'm thinking.
Speaker 3: Nice.
Speaker 2: This is not a condoning or anything like that. But
Speaker 2: it was fucking awesome, guys. But I am struggling to
Speaker 2: make connections. And I did listen to this episode not
Speaker 2: even an hour ago, the whole the whole thing.
Speaker 3: I listened. I mean I played some backgammon of course
Speaker 3: while I listened.
Speaker 1: Well, I think, yeah, are we trying to convince our audience,
Speaker 1: our audience that we're recording this all in one shot?
Speaker 1: Maybe we cut this.
Speaker 2: I don't know, No, I'm just trying to explain to them,
Speaker 2: like clearly we learned more things from like backyard, I
Speaker 2: learned about the femoral artery. How about that? Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a pretty big one. Yeah, that's a big lesson
Speaker 2: to learn. If I ever need to kill someone, I
Speaker 2: know what's up. Get at that fucking upper thigh.
Speaker 6: Baby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bet if you could stick, Like if someone
Speaker 2: texts you if you stick.
Speaker 1: Your key in their femeral artery, I'll yeah. But you
Speaker 1: really gotta fucking have a sharp key, and you gotta
Speaker 1: know where that artery is.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like when people think they can like
Speaker 2: fight a shark, and it's like you can barely punch
Speaker 2: a person, you know, like in the water, you're.
Speaker 1: Gonna punch a shark in the face.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just think in emergencies they'll figure it out. I
Speaker 2: couldn't handle it. So when I was in Denver, a
Speaker 2: woman that has seen better days did throw a glass
Speaker 2: bottle at my feet and try to fight me. And
Speaker 2: I just stood there frozen, like someone had to defend
Speaker 2: my honor and get in front of me and help me,
Speaker 2: because I just like she, I would have stood there
Speaker 2: she beat me for hours.
Speaker 3: I don't know what I would have done.
Speaker 1: Ah. Yeah, I asked Lisa, how is Denver last weekend?
Speaker 1: Pretty good?
Speaker 4: Pretty good?
Speaker 1: I hear nothing else. Two hours later, she goes, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: this woman did come at me throw a bottle at
Speaker 1: my feet. Someone had to come to my rescue. I'm like,
Speaker 1: this is what I asked for two hours ago. It
Speaker 1: was very funny detail to leave out of your weekend. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was just like, listen, I ate cold spaghetti, and
Speaker 2: I talked to great comedians and floated in a pool.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I did forget that I was fully attacked.
Speaker 1: In the street. All right, Well, that woman had seen
Speaker 1: better day. She probably could have used a sister Peg
Speaker 1: in her life. And that seamlessly segues us into our
Speaker 1: next segment, What would Sister Peg Do? Our weekly segment
Speaker 1: where we give you an organization, a book, an article, goal,
Speaker 1: some kind of resource where you can donate or simply
Speaker 1: learn more about a subject that we tackled in today's episode.
Speaker 1: This week, we are choosing to highlight an organization called
Speaker 1: Together We Rise. It's www dot Together Weerise dot org.
Speaker 1: The vision of Together We Rise is to improve the
Speaker 1: lives of children in foster care who often find themselves
Speaker 1: forgotten and neglected by the public. I will mention also
Speaker 1: that the fostercare system now does go till twenty one,
Speaker 1: at least in the state of California. You can use
Speaker 1: the system until twenty one, probably because of issues like
Speaker 1: what happened with Treva or what happened with the girl
Speaker 1: in the episode, because at eighteen, most people don't know
Speaker 1: what the hell's going on, so to just be dumped
Speaker 1: out of the foster care system was not working for
Speaker 1: many kids. So that's good but this organization collaborates with individuals, companies,
Speaker 1: community partners, foster agencies, costa advocates like myself and more
Speaker 1: to bring resources to foster youth and use service learning
Speaker 1: activities to educate volunteers on issues surrounding the fostercare system.
Speaker 1: So for initiatives and ways to donate, ways to partner,
Speaker 1: and more resources, go to their website Together we Rise
Speaker 1: dot org.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that, Kara, and next week
Speaker 2: join us and watch Downloaded Child. That's what we'll be
Speaker 2: covering season fifteen, episode nineteen, so we'll get a Littlemorrow
Speaker 2: action which.
Speaker 3: Will be nice for me.
Speaker 2: Hulu, Peacock, the Internet, your VPNs, figure it out, guys,
Speaker 2: and good love.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening, Thanks so much, see you next week.
Speaker 1: Bye bye. That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: at That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod.
Speaker 1: And follow us personally at Kara Clank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to SBU super fan and our
Speaker 2: incredible producer, Hannah Kyle Kraton.
Speaker 1: And to our sound engineer and personal hero, Analie Snilson,
Speaker 1: and to Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly
Speaker 1: Jean Andrews for our artwork. Thanks to our executive producers
Speaker 1: Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly
Speaker 1: Right Media.
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