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Speaker 1: on the go, and on any device will always pick

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Speaker 1: right back up where you left off. Audible also offers

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Speaker 1: for a year in a library you keep forever, even

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Speaker 1: if you cancel. Explore all the ways listening on Audible

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Speaker 1: can help improve mind, body, and soul. With entertainment, information

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Speaker 1: and inspiration. You can get titles from your favorite I

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Speaker 1: Heeart talent such as Chelsea Handler, Danny Shapiro, Charlemagne the God,

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Speaker 1: and Bobby Bones on Audible. Start listening now with a

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Speaker 1: thirty day Audible trial and your first audiobook plus two

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Speaker 1: Audible originals are free. Visit audible dot com, slash I

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Speaker 1: heart or text I Heeart to five hundred five hundred.

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Speaker 1: My next guest, I'll run into him at the airport,

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Speaker 1: you know the airport we're coming to t s A.

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Speaker 1: It's Richard McDonald. He said, I'm feel faint. Yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: got to do my show. He said, that's right. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me give you some information about him before I

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Speaker 1: officially bring him up. My next guest is a music executive,

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Speaker 1: television and film producer for nantroprists, and entrepreneur. He is

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Speaker 1: the senior vice president and general manager of r C

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Speaker 1: A Inspiration, a division of Sony Music Entertainment and r

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Speaker 1: C Inspiration is the number one label and gospel music

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Speaker 1: home to Kurt Franklin. That's my man, Fred Hammond, That's

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Speaker 1: my man, the Travis green Land, D Johnson, and many anymore.

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Speaker 1: R C Inspiration also released snoops acclaimed gospel album Bible

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Speaker 1: of Love. Please Welcome to money making Conversations, feel Thornton, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I feel like you're doing. How you doing? My friends?

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Speaker 1: Good to meet you outside of the airport? Outside of that?

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Speaker 1: How about that? This VACATIONSH Well, I look for friends

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Speaker 1: according to my staff, which means I probably pretty scary

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Speaker 1: proud to my leaving. Now, now here's the interesting reason

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Speaker 1: through your resume? What what? What? What is more? What?

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Speaker 1: What do you feel more successful about the music side

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Speaker 1: of this? Your television side? Your television side is exploding?

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Speaker 1: What's going on with that? Yeah, you know that's a

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Speaker 1: very popular question. I I feel success on the music

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Speaker 1: side is an executive. But I've also, has you noticed,

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Speaker 1: done some great award winning content on the television films.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of like I can't take between the

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Speaker 1: two kids. I love them both, you know, But I

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Speaker 1: love the music side and I love the TV and

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Speaker 1: films out I told, you know, gratified and fulfilled on

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Speaker 1: them both. But I love both, I really do, and

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Speaker 1: I love combining the two. Where I can now, where

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Speaker 1: are you based at? Where's your Where's where's home? Home

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Speaker 1: is now in Nashville, Tennessee. And why uh well, a

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Speaker 1: few years ago I had an opportunity to work for

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Speaker 1: another label, which was their original reason why I moved

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Speaker 1: to Nashville, and then int I made the transition over

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Speaker 1: to Sony. But prior to that, I was based in

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles and that's why, you know, produced a lot

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Speaker 1: of my content as well, was in Atlanta. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I've been in um Nashville seven years now. But

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Speaker 1: it's really interesting when you talk about gospel and you know,

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Speaker 1: because it's an interesting genure. Who because listen R but

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Speaker 1: you kind of know who you are and B fans

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Speaker 1: are and you kind of you know you hip hop

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Speaker 1: you know your hip hop fans or then you have

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Speaker 1: this lineal audience out there, general uh gen z audiences

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Speaker 1: out there. So yeah, who are gospel face? I remember

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Speaker 1: I struggled with that when I put together a tool

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Speaker 1: with Steve Harvey and Kirk Franklin. I didn't know where

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Speaker 1: to advertise. I didn't know how to reach them, you know,

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Speaker 1: because because you know, because you know gospel people, they

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Speaker 1: Dancing Night Love too, So absolutely absolutely. I mean first,

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Speaker 1: I mean the gospel consumer is that African American adult

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Speaker 1: um and you touched on when you had Kirk and

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Speaker 1: Steed tour years ago. To me, that was the perfect

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Speaker 1: sweet spot. But what we've noticed is that thirty plus

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Speaker 1: African American female is our target for most of our releases. Now,

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Speaker 1: we have some younger artists that, you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: a skewed to our eighteen to twenty four demo that's

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Speaker 1: really streaming heavy. But when we're when we're putting out

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Speaker 1: of Kirk Franklin record on Marvin Staff, but Donnie mclark,

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Speaker 1: some of our you know legends, you know on the roster,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're talking to that thirty plus you know,

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Speaker 1: a female who's listening to Jill Scotch, who's listening to

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Speaker 1: Anthony Hamilton's who's listening to her and Lucky Day and

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Speaker 1: then some of the New R and B as well.

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Speaker 1: But then, you know, because gospel is very much a

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Speaker 1: part of the fabric of American when you think about it,

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Speaker 1: because church is cultural for us. It's not just something

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Speaker 1: you know, some people's religious, like if it's been ingrained

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Speaker 1: in a part of our DNA. We went to church

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Speaker 1: the Big Mommy, our grandmother and grandmother's years ago, and

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Speaker 1: so it's a part of our culture. And gospel music

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Speaker 1: is uh just part of the DNA. When you think

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Speaker 1: about music in general, so many genres of music were

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Speaker 1: derived from gospel music. So for us, that's a sweet spot.

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Speaker 1: But we try to make music good appeals to everyone.

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Speaker 1: But really the sweet spot is that thirty plus African

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Speaker 1: American female. Now that's also audience that you know watches

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Speaker 1: their money absolutely, and so that means that they make

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Speaker 1: conscious decisions and and so how do you how knowing

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Speaker 1: that there is the goal to get younger because it's younger,

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Speaker 1: usually they spending there, they spending the thirty plus money

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Speaker 1: and so absolutely, so, so that's an audience you want

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Speaker 1: to reach. Think you have those legends what you just mentioned,

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Speaker 1: Kurt Franklin, Marvin Staff, Dono mc clark, who I've been

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Speaker 1: knowing since since two thousands and uh and been following

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Speaker 1: prior to that. When I say two thousand, I started

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Speaker 1: playing their music when Steve and I was on radio

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Speaker 1: and uh in Los Angeles on nage two point three

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Speaker 1: to be and so that's when we started really you

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Speaker 1: started seeing the evolution. I think gospel started really exploding

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Speaker 1: into the general market. Of course, Curtis said that that

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Speaker 1: that that that that statement in Dallas years before that

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Speaker 1: and like in ninety four, ninety five, and so so

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Speaker 1: with that's saying where do you see gospel going? And

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Speaker 1: and the legends? Are the legends still caring the music

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Speaker 1: or you see these young entrepreneurs as these young artists

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Speaker 1: starting to replace that that that void because you got

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Speaker 1: the next years of plus thirty women that you want

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Speaker 1: to reach. Absolutely, I still see the legends holding their own.

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Speaker 1: Like Kirk Franklin has a new record we just released Friday,

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Speaker 1: Longed of Love, So Kirk is still very much alive

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Speaker 1: and well. And Marvin Stad. But as far as the

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Speaker 1: younger artists in our roster, I would say Karen Hawthorne,

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Speaker 1: who's one of my first signings when I came over

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Speaker 1: to our c a um. She had the number the

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Speaker 1: number one song and gospel music. Last year, ever Sean

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Speaker 1: a song called won't He Do It Uh? And translated

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Speaker 1: beyond the gospel charts, We're gonna led over to the

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Speaker 1: urban charts. She performed on soul A. She won an

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Speaker 1: Image Award she's Grahamy nominated, She's on tour with Kirk

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Speaker 1: this summer. She's performing in essence. The list goes on

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Speaker 1: and she's only twenty one. I um found her from

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Speaker 1: the Voice, but more I'm looking for more artists like Karem,

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Speaker 1: like Travis Green, uh Jonathan mcgrenlands who's not on my roster,

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Speaker 1: but we worked together the previous company. But there's a

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Speaker 1: great search consha Cobs Leonard, such a surge of like

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Speaker 1: new artists that are really uh re kind of redefining

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Speaker 1: the sound of gospel but still keeping the integrity in

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Speaker 1: the same breath. So it's just a it's a few

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Speaker 1: new a new Jackson I think are really gonna make

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Speaker 1: everyone proud and continue to you know, it's gonna take

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Speaker 1: some time for them to get to the Kirk or

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Speaker 1: the Yolanda status and things. But again they're well on

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Speaker 1: their way. But I really really am excited about the

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Speaker 1: future of the genre. Well, but the thing about it

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Speaker 1: is that there's a different battle to get their record played.

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Speaker 1: And so when I say that is that when the

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Speaker 1: PPM came out, it really in fact it impacted affected

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Speaker 1: jazz music, it affected R and B music, and in

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Speaker 1: fact we lost a lot of R and B stations

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Speaker 1: out there, and so a lot of the stations started

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Speaker 1: play more RB stations started to play rap where they

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Speaker 1: will play gospel sal how and what techniques of procedures

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Speaker 1: are you getting are you using to get these these

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Speaker 1: these these up and coming? Are there other other other

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Speaker 1: veterans the legends music played on these stations? You know,

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Speaker 1: We're actually trying to be as strategic as possible and

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Speaker 1: partnering with our digital service providers that Apple, Spotify, the

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Speaker 1: Amazon's YouTube, because what I've learned in our research and

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Speaker 1: our data and our financials that come in every month,

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Speaker 1: our gospel consumer is heavily on Apple Music and YouTube.

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Speaker 1: So my loves against let's meet them where they are

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Speaker 1: and let's get them the best possible experience on those platforms,

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Speaker 1: whether that's exclusive content, whether that's live streaming of some

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Speaker 1: of our contracts and events like we just did with

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Speaker 1: Title a few weeks ago with Kirk's Festival in Dallas.

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Speaker 1: Just really trying to take advantage of the digital platform

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Speaker 1: because terrestial radio continues to reach of the audience in

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Speaker 1: our country with just a plus and we're not abandoning

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Speaker 1: that strategy in any way. But but really understanding our

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Speaker 1: people are are listening to pandor they're listening to Apple,

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Speaker 1: they're listening to YouTube. So why I'm not trying to

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Speaker 1: take advantage of some of the playlisting opportunities and just

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Speaker 1: getting the music and directly to the consumer, because ultimately

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Speaker 1: the consumers are controlled at that point. Also, we're you know,

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Speaker 1: partnering with our our friends and various networks that create specials,

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Speaker 1: whether it's you know, BT, whether it's own where there's

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Speaker 1: TV one, uh, you know, and having the artists be

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Speaker 1: a part of different documentaries or award shows and you

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Speaker 1: know special That's another way we're you know, getting the

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Speaker 1: music out there. And last but not least, the live

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Speaker 1: experience because what we've noticed again you touched on it

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Speaker 1: with with Kirk and and Steve earlier on but the

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Speaker 1: live component is really really valuable. So whether it's Essence

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Speaker 1: Fest or whether it's Kirk's Festival that just happen in Dallas,

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Speaker 1: Texas or you know upcoming you know, just nontraditional by

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Speaker 1: non church tours. So that's something we're really being very

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Speaker 1: intentional and partnering. You know, for example McDonald's that's one

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Speaker 1: of our I want to bring that back into our

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Speaker 1: next break on the phone with Phil Thornton. He's the

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Speaker 1: music executive, television, film producer, philamp, entrepreneur, the general manager

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Speaker 1: r C A Inspiration. To be back with more Phil

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Speaker 1: Thornton and Phil, we got to talk about this gospel

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Speaker 1: or YouTube channel. It's it's got talking about that. You

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Speaker 1: know on this Rashan McDonald, you're listening to money making

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Speaker 1: conversations on the phone. Is the senior vice president General

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Speaker 1: manager r C Inspiration. That's just one. It's a division

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Speaker 1: of Sony Music Entertainment UM. Some of the biggest stars

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Speaker 1: on r C A Inspiration. That's Kurt Franklin, Fred Hanlon,

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Speaker 1: just to name a few. I feel um before you.

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Speaker 1: Before we ended our first break, I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: about the whole YouTube and the streaming and it just

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Speaker 1: feels like, is there a gospel channel out there? Are

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Speaker 1: are are you guys moving into the direction of developing

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Speaker 1: a gospel streaming channel like through YouTube? Facebook? You know,

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Speaker 1: as a label, we are expanding our platform with YouTube

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Speaker 1: and Facebook and some of the other partners because we

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Speaker 1: see that is that's where our consumers are on a

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Speaker 1: daily basis, and so instead of trying to kind of

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Speaker 1: create a separate platform that we're being very very strategic

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Speaker 1: about building up our content. So that's you know, creating

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Speaker 1: additional content that you can only find on the YouTube channel.

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Speaker 1: So we're actually in the process of building that out

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Speaker 1: now and hoped to launch by in the summer. Please

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Speaker 1: do that because of the fact that I feel that

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Speaker 1: there's one of the great skill levels a great association

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Speaker 1: with gospel is visual because the gospel is really good. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm talking to an expert too, and I apologize,

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Speaker 1: I'm not trying to know, but I'm talking to an

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Speaker 1: expert in the legends. I'm all there. You know, this

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Speaker 1: is a this is a healthy has to money making

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Speaker 1: conversations help us make more money. Here's here's here's the

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Speaker 1: thing that that the gospel US cannot loude videos. They

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Speaker 1: need videos. Anytime you can capture and performing in churches,

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Speaker 1: you should capture because it just resonates in that in

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Speaker 1: that in the environment. If the if somebody could just

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Speaker 1: accumulate the model the volume of views that the tie

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Speaker 1: of plays and are tied to gospel, it would be

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Speaker 1: right behind food. I swear to you would be right

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Speaker 1: behind food videos and especially in the Facebook and YouTube world. Now,

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Speaker 1: I say that because when I look at talent like

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Speaker 1: you Loanta Adams, who I think will be a perfect

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Speaker 1: host for some type of Facebook talk show. When I

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Speaker 1: look at the when I look at the evolution of

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Speaker 1: what podcasts are doing, it is that's a perfect brand

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Speaker 1: for what you do to be able to just start

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Speaker 1: taking the talent that have because the radio is kind

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Speaker 1: of burying Gospel doesn't give it it's true, say it's

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Speaker 1: true VARs where I feel that gospel needs to just

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Speaker 1: control the narrative because the audience is there. The audience

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Speaker 1: is and and when I say that, I mean that

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Speaker 1: that's why I'm really excited to talk to you, because

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Speaker 1: you're a brand leader. And when I and I've always

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Speaker 1: said this about this show, if I give you a dot,

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Speaker 1: if I give you information, and you make a million dollars,

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Speaker 1: then the purpose of this show has been successful. And

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Speaker 1: so when I say that, I'm saying to us, as

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Speaker 1: a guy who's seen the vision that it was, who

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Speaker 1: was experienced, is that your the future of gospel is

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Speaker 1: tied to what you do feel And that's in UH

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Speaker 1: YouTube streaming, UH setting up your own Facebook talk show

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Speaker 1: and podcasts. That's where it's that I see you. I

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Speaker 1: see you created a partnership with the McDonald Inspirational Celebration

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Speaker 1: Gospel Tour, which is brilliant. That's controlling your narrative now

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Speaker 1: is about capturing footage, capturing all that video content and

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Speaker 1: then shaping it and putting it on your on your channel,

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Speaker 1: shaping podcast with with key host because with a lot

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Speaker 1: of people don't understand by podcast, Oh you need one

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Speaker 1: five minutes show a week, that's it. That's it. I like,

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Speaker 1: and we're working. We're working with I'm a mutual friend

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Speaker 1: of ours, a divine frontmen on building out our podcast effort.

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Speaker 1: So that's something that just you know, you heard it

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Speaker 1: here first. We're working on that as we speak, just

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Speaker 1: because again we see to your point, controlling the narrative

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Speaker 1: is going to be extreme more important than ever. So

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about, all right, you gotta

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Speaker 1: go there because of the fact that once you control

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Speaker 1: that narrative, then you then you build your audience properly.

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Speaker 1: The problem I have with the terrestrial radio they will

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Speaker 1: not allow gospel to build their audience. Then they segmented

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Speaker 1: like people don't only hear gospel on certain days and

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Speaker 1: on Sunday, Sunday afternoon, Sunday morning, and so it's a

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Speaker 1: mix and it confuses people on how you should approach

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Speaker 1: gospel and the play. But that people don't want to

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Speaker 1: hear on morning shows. People want to hear in the

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Speaker 1: afternoon drive. And then it only allows yourself to be

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Speaker 1: the legends to get played, and so it means that

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Speaker 1: it often hurts the legends too because guess what, they're

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Speaker 1: old catalogs don't get played, and so it limits their

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Speaker 1: overall exposure to the new audiences that need to be

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Speaker 1: here in the the millennials who need to hear Kurt

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Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty four music you know you know, Kurt,

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you a question as a person,

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Speaker 1: you know you and Steve to me where you know

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Speaker 1: trailblazers and really embraced gospel on a national platform even

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Speaker 1: before then. When I think back to the beat days

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Speaker 1: in l A, what made you say I will embrace

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Speaker 1: this music on our morning show, prime you know, prime platform? Like,

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Speaker 1: what was the thing about gospel at that time? Was

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Speaker 1: the artist was just the timing? I'm just curious. Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, Steve's as strong faith. You know that,

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Speaker 1: so your your leader has to believe in it, and

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Speaker 1: your leader has to fight for it. And Steve was

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Speaker 1: willing to fight forward. I remember when we introduced the

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Speaker 1: idea because at the time, you know, no gospel music

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Speaker 1: was being played on the beat, and so we introduced

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Speaker 1: as our opening song. We just said, I opened his song,

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Speaker 1: let's let us play our opened his song and so.

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Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, when we start hearing

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Speaker 1: about the success, so we fall down that blew up

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Speaker 1: off our opening songs. Marvin Sapp blew up. Kurt Flecking

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Speaker 1: got even bigger. And so we realized that the music

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Speaker 1: we were playing in this Los Angeles station were really

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Speaker 1: impacting everybody nationwide. And this was before streaming. So I

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Speaker 1: would say to you, is that that that because of

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Speaker 1: the way music is being carved out nowadays, that's not

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Speaker 1: gonna happen. That's why I know that you have to

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Speaker 1: control your narrative. If you get stuff on radio that's gravy.

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Speaker 1: But I know that the way the system is set

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Speaker 1: up nowadays, with with the Android phones being a dominant

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Speaker 1: carrier for all African Americans. More African Americans by Android

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Speaker 1: phones than any any type of phone out there. Know

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Speaker 1: that for a fact. And so when you know that,

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Speaker 1: when you know that, if you start saying, hey, reach

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Speaker 1: us through this channel Facebook, get somebody like like you'landa

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Speaker 1: Adams who's amazing, who has the audience reach, she's hip,

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Speaker 1: has a daughter in college, so she knows the language,

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Speaker 1: she knows the experiences the host or like a Facebook

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Speaker 1: show that it will allow you to have guests and

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Speaker 1: have a red table type show that's popular for for

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Speaker 1: Jada Pinkett can be popular for you guys through your

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Speaker 1: line of Adams type. You know that you gotta have

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Speaker 1: somebody who has stories, who has credibility and has engagement.

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Speaker 1: I'm just letting you know that you're a smart guy.

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Speaker 1: I can talk to you because you know television too.

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Speaker 1: I can't talk to tabless conversation with everybody because your

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Speaker 1: television background allows me to say turn some just to

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Speaker 1: make a pitch to use to say in that. I

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Speaker 1: just want you to just control your brand because allowed

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Speaker 1: radio to dictate it or tell their story is not happening.

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Speaker 1: That's the only disappointment. And and not managing Steve and

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Speaker 1: not being part of the morning show was I didn't

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Speaker 1: realize the impact of me leaving radio would have on

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Speaker 1: how music is being played nationally, because I had that

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Speaker 1: big of effect on what was being played on the

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Speaker 1: national format and now that's not the case anymore, and

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Speaker 1: it really disappoints me. That's why I'm an advocate of

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Speaker 1: what you do. And I would be and I was,

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Speaker 1: I was sitting in the meeting you asked me to

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Speaker 1: sit in, I would. I would push your brand field

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Speaker 1: because guess what, we just need to control your narrative absolute.

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Speaker 1: And I'll take you up on that offer because I

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Speaker 1: really loved the idea of just some of the things

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Speaker 1: you've already shared offline. I've really I'm gonna take you

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Speaker 1: up on that because this is this is because I

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Speaker 1: need as many champions on the front line to really

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Speaker 1: get controlled the narrative so that I I really I

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Speaker 1: think in advance, I really do. I appreciate, and I

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Speaker 1: thank you and and I and I think that that

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Speaker 1: when I talk to you, you have to talk to

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Speaker 1: people who get both sides of it. And so when

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Speaker 1: I listened to radio and I listened to how rappers

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Speaker 1: creep this way back into R and B music, that

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Speaker 1: was in two thousands, that that. That's what I fought

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Speaker 1: to stop, was well, how how rapping suddenly now you

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Speaker 1: hear now you hear rappers creeping their way into R

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Speaker 1: and B songs again. Oh well that's two thousand, Okay.

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Speaker 1: Now we were back to two thousand again in twenty

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Speaker 1: and eighteen, so and n eighteen years later we're starting

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Speaker 1: all over again. So what does that leave gospel nowhere? Nowhere?

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Speaker 1: So that means that don't worry about that. It's a

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Speaker 1: different era nowadays, when an era where we can control

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Speaker 1: our narrative, control our product and put it out at

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Speaker 1: at a very cheap production rate. And so but we

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Speaker 1: got to select and choose the right people to speak

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Speaker 1: to song, to speak to volume, and gotta have the

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Speaker 1: right minded people. And you want of the right minded people.

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Speaker 1: My man, uh Sony is one of the right minded

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Speaker 1: people because of the fact that y'all understand it and

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Speaker 1: y'all live gospel. Y'all live gospel. Man. Yeah, absolutely absolutely

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Speaker 1: so so so with the television background, with the with

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Speaker 1: the radio, with the music. So how can I help you?

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Speaker 1: Like I said, I got a newsletter that comes out

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Speaker 1: uh monthly, two thousand fan club followers. I love to

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Speaker 1: just drop information in there and our newsletter about your

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Speaker 1: up comedy songs. Just just give me the artwork and

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Speaker 1: the clickable links. And I started helping you promote there

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Speaker 1: and then you can come on my show any artist

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Speaker 1: you want on my show. This is money making conversations

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Speaker 1: is about promoting brands and getting the word. I feel

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Speaker 1: and I just know that you are on the edge

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Speaker 1: of something great. Uh. I just want to push you

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Speaker 1: there and let you know, look at it. Man, content

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Speaker 1: is king. You have a market that is available in

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Speaker 1: the mobile world. Just gotta be smarter about it and

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Speaker 1: realizes that it's on you. It's gonna be on you.

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Speaker 1: My man, It's gonna be on you. Now. I appreciate that,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna take you up on that news butt

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Speaker 1: as well. I sent you some arts today. Actually I

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00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,840
Speaker 1: started with what I'm mutual frank Kirk Franklin, how about that.

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00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 1: We'll start with Kirtel now, Um, I appreciate that support.

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00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 1: But we're trying it just because you as you know,

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Speaker 1: at one point the restaurant radio was driving, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it was such a pivotal but like you said,

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Speaker 1: it's a totally different landscape now. So we we had

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Speaker 1: to be created. So you know, so that's the key

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Speaker 1: with having some of our brand partnerships still building. I'm

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00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,600
Speaker 1: building in that area. I'm building with our digital partners,

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Speaker 1: building with the TV and film and like the podcast

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Speaker 1: that we're building out. But it's gonna take, like you said,

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Speaker 1: just taking control of the narratives and finding those champions

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Speaker 1: that understand, you know, both sides to understand gospel but

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Speaker 1: understand the audience and faith um and just kind of

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Speaker 1: figure out how we can collaborate when I unfortunate that

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Speaker 1: I've been, you know, really blessed on this journey to

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Speaker 1: find people like you, to find people like tomb over

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Speaker 1: to YouTube who you know, So it's like, how do

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Speaker 1: we work together and collaborate and and work and create

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Speaker 1: some amazing you know, Jason Kapana a title and just

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Speaker 1: different different. We gotta talk, man, we gotta talk. I

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Speaker 1: gotta let you go on this one. You need to

422
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 1: check out the wireless earbides from Recon. Recon earbuds start

423
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Speaker 1: off about half the price of any other premium wireless

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425
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Speaker 1: unlike some of your other wireless options. Recon earbuds are

426
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Speaker 1: both stylish and discreet, with no dangling wires or stems.

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Speaker 1: And of course they don't just look great, they sound

428
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Speaker 1: great too, and they're perfect for listening to all your

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