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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 3: dot com. Joining us now is Andrew Chanhe's the co

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Speaker 3: owner of three sixteen, a powerhouse fashion brand here in

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Speaker 3: the US of which I am a customer. And Andrew

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Speaker 3: recently did a video talking about the effects of tariffs

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Speaker 3: on smaller fashion brands like himself, and so we thought

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Speaker 3: that it would be great to actually have him on

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Speaker 3: the show and to discuss So the video you put

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Speaker 3: out is three ways that the new tariffs will affect

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Speaker 3: for fashion brands like yours, So why don't you just

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Speaker 3: break some of this down for the audience. Andrew and

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Speaker 3: tell us at some point do you actually run one

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Speaker 3: of these business clothing textiles, something that obviously there's been

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Speaker 3: a lot of outsourcing on will affect somebody like you.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for the opportunity to come on today, and yeah,

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Speaker 4: we're still trying to navigate all of this. There's a

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Speaker 4: lot of uncertainty in the air. But the number one

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Speaker 4: thing that we wanted to touch on was the increased

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Speaker 4: costs that we face. We bring in all of our

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Speaker 4: fabric for our denim, which were Denim Brand that's what

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Speaker 4: we make the most of from Japan, and the new

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Speaker 4: tariffs are we're looking at about a twenty four percent

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Speaker 4: additional cost on fabric that's coming in. I think something

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Speaker 4: that's difficult for customers to understand, and we saw this

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Speaker 4: in the comments section of the video that we posted,

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Speaker 4: is that a ten dollars increase in raw materials doesn't

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Speaker 4: just result in a ten dollars increase at retail. You know,

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Speaker 4: we're part of a value chain model, which means that

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Speaker 4: we buy the fabric, we contract a factory to produce

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Speaker 4: it for us in the US in San Francisco, so

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Speaker 4: we are made in America company, and then we wholesale

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Speaker 4: it to retail stores around the world. These wholesale accounts

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Speaker 4: are store owners. They have small boutiques in parts of America,

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Speaker 4: in Europe, in Japan and Asia, and then they need

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Speaker 4: to mark that garment up in order to sell it

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Speaker 4: to their customers. And so if our costs go up

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Speaker 4: by ten dollars, in order to preserve our margins, we

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Speaker 4: have to increase our wholesale cost, and then that wholesale

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Speaker 4: cost needs to also translate to a higher retail cost.

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Speaker 4: So that's why a ten dollars increase in just materials

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Speaker 4: could result in a forty to fifty dollars increase once

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Speaker 4: it hits market. And we've found a lot of customers

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Speaker 4: calling that like that's greedy.

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Speaker 5: Why can't you just increase.

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Speaker 4: It ten dollars at the at the very end and

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Speaker 4: call it a day. And the reality is that, like

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Speaker 4: everybody has a business to run, we all have employees

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Speaker 4: to pay, we have healthcare to cover, we have in

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Speaker 4: our case, we provide retirement accounts for our small team.

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Speaker 4: You can't do that if your margins continued to decrease.

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Speaker 4: So that's a really difficult thing. The customer is going

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Speaker 4: to face some sort of price increase, and it's going

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Speaker 4: to be a lot more than just the straight raw

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Speaker 4: materials that.

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Speaker 5: Are coming in. A second thing that I talked about

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Speaker 5: was uncertainty.

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Speaker 4: As a fashion brand, we don't just design things and

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Speaker 4: then release it to market. We have to design it,

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Speaker 4: We bring it to trade shows, we have people pre

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Speaker 4: ordered garments, and then we go to production on it

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Speaker 4: based off of whatever orders they place. That helps us

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Speaker 4: to be more efficient. We're not just guessing at what

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Speaker 4: to make in these cases. We have to quote a

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Speaker 4: price so that the retail stores can decide like is

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Speaker 4: this something that my customers can afford? Is this something

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Speaker 4: that I feel like I can present at a reasonable

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Speaker 4: cost to them? Now, we already just went to Paris

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Speaker 4: in January to sell our fall Winter twenty five collection,

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Speaker 4: and we had to give them prices on it. This

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Speaker 4: is pre tariffs, and so we produce garments in the US,

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Speaker 4: we produce them in Peru, we produce them in India

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Speaker 4: and in Portugal. So Peru's the only one that's subject

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Speaker 4: right now to the flat ten percent. India has a

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Speaker 4: twenty six percent additional tariff, and the EU also is

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Speaker 4: facing additional tariffs. So now we stand to have to

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Speaker 4: pay more for that finished garment to land in the

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Speaker 4: US than what we had quoted the price on. And

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Speaker 4: that's really difficult for us because somebody is going to

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Speaker 4: have to take a margin, you know, a margin hit

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Speaker 4: on that. It could be us, the brand, We could

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Speaker 4: just eat it and then we end up not making

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Speaker 4: any money at wholesale.

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Speaker 5: It could be the retail store.

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Speaker 4: We might have to split the difference with them if

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Speaker 4: they don't want the cost to go up too much,

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Speaker 4: or we might all decide like, hey, there's no way

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Speaker 4: that we can function as businesses and we're going to

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Speaker 4: all have to.

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Speaker 5: Increase the cost.

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Speaker 4: That's going to cause some stores to bow out of

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Speaker 4: their their commitments. That means that we now have to

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Speaker 4: you know, hold extra stock and be more inefficient as

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Speaker 4: a company. That means we're going to have to discount

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Speaker 4: or offload somehow. We try to be very careful with

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Speaker 4: the quantities that we set. We try not to overproduce,

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Speaker 4: but that's just unavoidable. We've already had some Canadian customers

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Speaker 4: cancel orders this spring season because of the game of

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Speaker 4: Chicken that you know, we played with Canada and Mexico

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Speaker 4: just a month and a half ago with the five

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Speaker 4: percent tariffs, there was too much uncertainty. They were like,

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Speaker 4: hold our shipments, we can't take anything right now. Wow,

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Speaker 4: they had already placed orders for fall winter twenty five.

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Speaker 4: I'm almost certain that they will cancel orders. And then

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Speaker 4: the third one is just deterioration of overseas markets. What

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Speaker 4: happens when trade wars begin is that other nations or

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Speaker 4: other regions begin to try and find ways to cooperate

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Speaker 4: because they need to get their products from somewhere. So

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Speaker 4: in twenty nineteen there was a free trade agreement that

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Speaker 4: was established between the EU and Japan, and so all

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Speaker 4: of our EU accounts are now able to bring in

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Speaker 4: great denim and great clothing from Japan. This is the

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Speaker 4: same country that makes our fabric, so they're very good

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Speaker 4: at making this niche product that we do. And if

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Speaker 4: you're a retail store in Europe and you can buy

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Speaker 4: stuff from Japan with no tariffs, and then you have

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Speaker 4: to be faced with the decision of am I going

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Speaker 4: to buy from this American brand that's going to cost

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Speaker 4: me even more than it did before, You're probably going

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Speaker 4: to make your decisions Accordingly, business just goes in the path.

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Speaker 5: Of least resistance of course.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we spent a decade trying to cultivate this market

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Speaker 4: in the EU and we're finding success and stores like

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Speaker 4: the brand, they like the product, it just becomes cost

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Speaker 4: prohibitive for them.

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Speaker 6: So, Andrew, let me ask you this.

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Speaker 2: So I think what the President has supporters and people say,

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Speaker 2: you know, this is good for the long term for

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Speaker 2: the country. What they would respond is, you know, it's

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Speaker 2: short term pain. Yes, we get it. We understand that

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Speaker 2: this is going to cause issues for you, and it's

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Speaker 2: going to cause potentially prices to go up for consumers,

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Speaker 2: but it's going to create an incentive structure for business

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Speaker 2: owners like yourself to bring the entire supply chain for

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Speaker 2: your product here internally to the US and will create

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Speaker 2: additional jobs in the US. So over the long term,

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Speaker 2: this is going to be a better direction.

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Speaker 6: What is your response to that?

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Speaker 2: And also, you know, just walk us through, like what

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Speaker 2: would it entail for that to actually occur for you?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean what I would respond to that is

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Speaker 4: that a lot of these small brands don't have five

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Speaker 4: years or ten years to be able to build up

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Speaker 4: infrastructure and to reshure these things that America doesn't do anymore,

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Speaker 4: and I'll just keep it super super focused on genes

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Speaker 4: because that is what most customers know us for, they

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Speaker 4: come to us for. And so a lot of people

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Speaker 4: who are not familiar with our brand, when they saw

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Speaker 4: this video go viral, they're like, why don't you just

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Speaker 4: make it in America? And to the extent that we're

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Speaker 4: able to, we do. We employ a factory in San

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Speaker 4: Francisco that used to make genes for Levi's before they

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Speaker 4: offshore production. We entered there fifteen years ago as the

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Speaker 4: smallest brand there and now we are their biggest client

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Speaker 4: and they rely on us business. But the fabric that

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Speaker 4: we use, and I don't know if this is getting

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Speaker 4: too niche, but it is salvage denim. It is denim

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Speaker 4: that is woven the way that denham used to be

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Speaker 4: made in the forties to the sixties, when it was

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Speaker 4: more than just a work where fabric it was something

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Speaker 4: that people needed longevity out of. And it's a slow

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Speaker 4: and almost antiquated way of making denim that is largely

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Speaker 4: unavailable in the US. There are a few small mills

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Speaker 4: that still exist here, but the biggest one was Cone

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Speaker 4: Mills White Oak in North Carolina, and they closed in

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Speaker 4: twenty seventeen to lack of demand. Customers are not accustomed

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Speaker 4: to paying for clothing. Derek Guy die workwear on Twitter

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Speaker 4: and Blue Sky. He shared on one of his threads.

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Speaker 4: In the early nineteen sixties, US household spent twelve percent

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Speaker 4: of the income out apparel, and that would be four

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Speaker 4: one hundred and fifty seven dollars in today's dollars. In

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Speaker 4: twenty sixteen it was four percent, so eighteen hundred dollars.

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Speaker 4: But that's not because people are buying less clothes. They're

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Speaker 4: buying more clothes, they're buying cheap clothes. We're in niche brand,

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Speaker 4: we're small. We try and make clothes the way that

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Speaker 4: they used to be made. We pay attention to fabric, details, construction,

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Speaker 4: and the best denim in the world is being made

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Speaker 4: in Japan. It's not because they came and brought up

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Speaker 4: all of our old looms.

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Speaker 5: That's a rumor.

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Speaker 4: Japan has a long and storied history of textile development,

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Speaker 4: and they've invested into this industry, and there's also a

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Speaker 4: domestic appreciation for that craft and that level of authenticity

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Speaker 4: and fabric and it's just not achievable at that level.

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Speaker 4: And I know that may hurt for some people to hear,

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Speaker 4: but as a brand, it's our prerogative to make the

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Speaker 4: best possible product for our customers, and so it's not

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Speaker 4: a matter of us being scared that this is going

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Speaker 4: to cost too much. We just want to maintain a

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Speaker 4: level of quality, and so there are no options for us.

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Speaker 4: For a little story, about six or seven years ago,

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Speaker 4: an email came in our inbox. It almost seemed like

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Speaker 4: a scam, but someone's like, do you want to buy

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Speaker 4: all these shuttle looms? Shuttle looms are the looms that

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Speaker 4: make this salvage dentim and we like, there's no way

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Speaker 4: this could be. It turned out that they were. They

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Speaker 4: were looms from the shuttered you know, Cone White White

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Speaker 4: Oak mills. In order for this whole story to work

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Speaker 4: for us to offshore, you're asking us as a brand

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Speaker 4: to come and buy looms, start a factory, start making fabric.

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Speaker 4: We have no expertise in this. We didn't go to

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Speaker 4: school for textile development. We do know how to manage

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Speaker 4: a factory. There would be so much inefficiency, we would

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Speaker 4: probably mess up a ton. We would probably shut We

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Speaker 4: definitely would have shut down. There's no way that there

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Speaker 4: was this would have been an option for us.

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Speaker 2: So basically, if you were to pursue this path of

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Speaker 2: I would just do it all in the US. You

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Speaker 2: would have a lower quality product and it would cost more.

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Speaker 4: It would cause it would yes, if we were not

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Speaker 4: going to go and own our own open our own mill,

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Speaker 4: it would not be the product would not be at

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Speaker 4: the level that we would want.

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Speaker 3: And that's I think that's very important for people to understand,

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Speaker 3: is that the administration is putting this all on you.

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Speaker 3: They're not offering you any tax break, They're not offering

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Speaker 3: you any relief for anything in the interim. And then

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Speaker 3: even on the cultural point, I think this is so important.

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Speaker 1: You know, as you.

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Speaker 3: Said about Japan, they have a literal decades long history

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Speaker 3: of appreciation for craft. They have a cost structure built

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Speaker 3: in to preserve that their tax incentives, economics incentives, cultural

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Speaker 3: incentives to build an entire ecosystem which actually does produce

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Speaker 3: something that many of the people who push this policy

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Speaker 3: extensibly want a return to quality away from fast fashion.

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Speaker 3: And so as somebody involved and again creating an extremely

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Speaker 3: high quality product, something that I literally purchase myself, what

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Speaker 3: are thus you know, what are the headwinds that you

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Speaker 3: are swimming against with the rise of fast fashion, which

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Speaker 3: ostensibly is something that they're trying to stop and boost

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Speaker 3: someone like you, Is this policy actually just going to perhaps,

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Speaker 3: like you know, increase the amount of fast fashion consumed,

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Speaker 3: cheaper goods that people will turn to in a time

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Speaker 3: of depression, Like have you seen a reduction perhaps in

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Speaker 3: demand like you said with Canada and Mexico. What is

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Speaker 3: the net effect of all of this?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the only way. So we already talked

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Speaker 4: about customers going to face they are going to face

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Speaker 4: increased costs. There's no way around it. I don't know

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Speaker 4: when that's going to happen. I don't know when it's

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Speaker 4: going to take effect. Even for us, I don't know

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Speaker 4: when our next shipment of fabric is going to get hit.

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Speaker 4: We have a huge shipment of denim that's supposed to

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Speaker 4: land in three to four days. I don't know if

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Speaker 4: that's subject to the new terraffs or the shipment after that. Like,

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Speaker 4: we're not going away, so we're going to have to

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Speaker 4: take another shipment. But customers will face increase costs. For

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Speaker 4: the brands, it's going to be difficult because every brand

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Speaker 4: is going to have to decide whether they want to

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Speaker 4: increase costs or lower quality, or maybe some metric that

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Speaker 4: involves both of those two things. If they feel that

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Speaker 4: their customers cannot stomach and increase in costs, they're going

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Speaker 4: to have to reduce quality.

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Speaker 5: They're going to have to cut corners in terms of the.

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Speaker 4: Fabrics they use, that construction, they may have to move

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Speaker 4: to a different facility, any number of things. So there

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Speaker 4: is a cost all the way around. And we've already

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Speaker 4: established that. You know, it's not that people are buying

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Speaker 4: less clothes, they're just spending less on them, and so

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Speaker 4: I don't really see that changing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, last question for you. Your video went viral. You know,

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Speaker 2: people who are trying to understand what this means for

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Speaker 2: individual business owners. I think really got a lot out

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Speaker 2: of it. I certainly got a lot out of it

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Speaker 2: watching it. Are you nervous at all about its virality?

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Speaker 2: Given you know this president can be very punitive if

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Speaker 2: someone is speaking on against him. You know, you see

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Speaker 2: the way that a lot of business leaders have made

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Speaker 2: efforts to getting close with him so that they don't

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Speaker 2: face retaliation. Is that something that concerns you all at all?

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Speaker 2: In just speaking out on the basics of how this

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Speaker 2: will impact your business and your future.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I'm talking to the t also.

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Speaker 6: Not too nervous anyway.

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Speaker 5: No, it's been surprising.

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Speaker 4: I think when we meet the video, we just tried

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Speaker 4: to speak from the heart, and we also tried to

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Speaker 4: speak in a non partisan ways, just like, hey, this

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Speaker 4: is what's happening to us, this is our perspective.

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Speaker 5: There was no political leaning.

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Speaker 4: I don't think in the things that we shared was

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Speaker 4: just the reality of like the types of decisions that

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Speaker 4: we're going to need to make in the coming weeks

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Speaker 4: and months. We're a pretty small fish. I hope that,

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Speaker 4: you know, we're not really attracting that kind of attention,

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Speaker 4: but you know, I do think that people want to

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Speaker 4: hear from small businesses.

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Speaker 6: Like ours, definitely that are you.

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Speaker 4: Know, we're actually really trying to like making stuff in

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Speaker 4: America is has been central to what we do. When

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Speaker 4: we started making jeens in two thousand and eight, our

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Speaker 4: first samples came from China and they didn't come in

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Speaker 4: construction wise at the level that we wanted. So we

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Speaker 4: went we found historic factory that had been making geens

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Speaker 4: in America for decades and decades and they're staffed by

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Speaker 4: I don't know if I'm opening another can of worms here,

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Speaker 4: but they're staffed by immigrants. The people that make your

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Speaker 4: clothes don't in America, don't always look the way that

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Speaker 4: you think that they do. They're all legal citizens, but

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Speaker 4: they all came to America with a skill set that

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Speaker 4: America does not cultivate in a meaningful way either anymore. Right,

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Speaker 4: I mean, like I want to, I had homec class

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Speaker 4: in middle school. Maybe that dates how old I am,

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Speaker 4: but I don't think that that really exists anymore. People

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Speaker 4: don't even know how to put a button on their

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Speaker 4: shirt anymore.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: To expect this to come back, and to expect American

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Speaker 4: citizens to want to embrace these jobs. If there hasn't

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Speaker 4: been a high value placed on craft and manufacturing, it's

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Speaker 4: going to be tough.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think Soccer's point and your point that in theory,

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Speaker 2: this policy is meant to support people like you. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's meant to push people more towards Okay, spend a

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Speaker 2: little bit more, but it'll be higher quality and it'll

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Speaker 2: be you know, from companies that put an emphasis on

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Speaker 2: making things here. And so the fact that even for

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Speaker 2: someone such as yourself and your business. You see this

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Speaker 2: as a major challenge to have to overcome. I think

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Speaker 2: is very illuminating about the practical realities of the policy.

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Speaker 6: Andrew.

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Speaker 2: We can't thank you enough for taking the time out

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Speaker 2: to talk to us and explain your perspective on all

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Speaker 2: of this.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Andrew. Thank you for making the clothes that

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Speaker 3: you guys do. As I said, I'm a loyal customer.

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Speaker 3: I'll continue to be and I encourage everybody out there

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Speaker 3: if you can, we'll put a link down on the scription.

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Speaker 1: You should go check them out.

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Speaker 5: Thank you for the time and the opportunity.

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Speaker 6: See it's our pleasure.

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Speaker 2: All right, let's go ahead and get to bib Netanyah,

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Speaker 2: who's meeting with Trump at the White House. We can

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Speaker 2: go ahead and put this up on the screen. Yes,

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Speaker 2: ladies and gentlemen, he did once again push in the

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Speaker 2: seat for his dear friend, the ICC indicted war criminal

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Speaker 2: bb Netanyaho. It's especially galling because this comes on a

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Speaker 2: day when we found out that the Israelis have murdered

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Speaker 2: another American. This was a Palston American child who was

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Speaker 2: shot dead. Two others were shot and wounded by Israeli forces.

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Speaker 2: In the occupied West Bank reporting from Ryan our friends

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Speaker 2: over at drop Site News. By the way, make sure

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Speaker 2: and help them out because they appear to be getting

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Speaker 2: significantly suppressed and buried over on Twitter. If you try

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Speaker 2: to search for them, they don't come up, So make

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Speaker 2: sure you're supporting Ryan and drop Site and Jeremy over there.

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Speaker 2: In any case, let me go ahead and read their

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Speaker 2: report and keep this up on the screen.

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Speaker 6: Eric, they say.

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Speaker 2: Omar Mohammad Ravella, a fourteen year old Palestinian with US citizenship,

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Speaker 2: was shot and killed on Sunday by Israeli forces near

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Speaker 2: the West Bank town of turmas Aya. I'm sorry, guys,

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Speaker 2: northeast of Ramala. Two other Palestinian American boys, age fourteen

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Speaker 2: and fifteen also shot and wounded, one in the abdomen,

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Speaker 2: the other in the thigh. Both were taken to a

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Speaker 2: nearby clinic. There's no dispute from the Israelis that they

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Speaker 2: were responsible for this killing. They say that this American

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Speaker 2: citizen was throwing rocks towards a highway, so that was

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Speaker 2: the reason for his killing. The President making, i guess,

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Speaker 2: not exactly making news, but reiterating his commitment to the

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Speaker 2: US having a peacekeeping force in a Gaza Strip that

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Speaker 2: has been ethnically cleansed of all Palestinians.

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Speaker 6: Let's go ahead and take a listen to what he

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Speaker 6: had to say.

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Speaker 8: Well, you know how I feel about the Gaza Strip.

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Speaker 8: I think it's an incredible piece of important real estate,

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Speaker 8: and I think it's something that we would be involved in.

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Speaker 8: But you know, having a peace force like the United

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Speaker 8: States there controlling and owning the Gaza Strip would be

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Speaker 8: a good thing because right now all it is is

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Speaker 8: for years and years, all I hear about is killing

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Speaker 8: and Hamas and problems. And if you take the people,

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Speaker 8: the Palestinians and move them around to different countries, and

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Speaker 8: you have plenty of countries that will do that, and

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Speaker 8: you really have a freedom, a freedom zone. You call

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Speaker 8: it the freedom zone, A free zone, a zone where

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Speaker 8: people aren't going to be killed every day. That's a

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Speaker 8: hell of a place. It's a you know what, I

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Speaker 8: call it, a great location that nobody wants to live

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Speaker 8: in because they really don't. And when they had good living,

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Speaker 8: when they have good living living, where Hamas and all

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Speaker 8: of the problems, the level of death on the Gaza

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Speaker 8: Strip is just incredible. And I've said it, I don't understand.

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Speaker 8: Why is your LEVI gave it up? Is you loaned it?

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Speaker 8: It wasn't this man so I can say it. He

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Speaker 8: wouldn't have given it up. I know him very well.

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Speaker 8: There's no way they took ocean front property and they

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Speaker 8: gave it to people for peace.

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Speaker 5: How did that work out?

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Speaker 8: Not good?

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Speaker 2: Just insane, just insane. It's ocean front property. Oh, incredible killing.

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Speaker 2: There the guy who's doing the killing and sitting right

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Speaker 2: next to you. But in case Sager, he is apparently

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Speaker 2: not joking about this.

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Speaker 3: About this plan, freedom zone is like a two thousand

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Speaker 3: and five like fever dream of Paul Wolfewad. Not even

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Speaker 3: they would have the audacity Paul wolfo WIT's and Douglas

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Speaker 3: truth to suggest the United States should take occupation of

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Speaker 3: the Gaza Strip. Their mere idiocy idea was let them

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Speaker 3: have elections and then we won't, you know, basically acknowledge

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Speaker 3: the result of set elections and effectively allow occupation from

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Speaker 3: that point forward.

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Speaker 1: I don't know not.

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Speaker 3: I can't even express the rage which is necessary for

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Speaker 3: this idea. It just shows you that if you're my age,

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Speaker 3: everything just comes around. You get to live to see

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Speaker 3: twice too great recessions and US troops in the Middle

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Speaker 3: East as a part of it. Literally tax dollars and

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Speaker 3: global treasure going to fund foreign wars which are basically inconsequential.

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Speaker 3: We just did a whole thing about trade and about China.

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Speaker 3: US bilateral trade with Israel is like fifty billion. It's

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Speaker 3: like a pimple on top of China. Yet with this

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Speaker 3: entire domination of our politics occupation there as if we

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Speaker 3: have any strategic.

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Speaker 1: Interest, the whole thing is preposterous.

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Speaker 3: It's not to mention the humanitarian disaster that we would

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Speaker 3: eventually be responsible for. The only bull case for this

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Speaker 3: is that he's bullshitting and then it won't happen. That's

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Speaker 3: not really a good case to be made in the

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Speaker 3: middle of a massive trade conflagration.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that we are right now.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm going to take him seriously. I think

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Speaker 3: he definitely wants to do this and at an American

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Speaker 3: boot on the ground in Gaza, occupying this area is

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Speaker 3: asking for a global ignition of terrorism, of attacks on

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Speaker 3: our troops, and of further conflagration intervention in the region.

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Speaker 2: Like anyway, Yeah, well, and I think if there's one

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Speaker 2: thing we've learned about Trump two point zero. It's that

441
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 2: you should take him both seriously and literally.

442
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, like the idea.

443
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 2: Oh, he says things, but he doesn't relate. No, he's

444
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,680
Speaker 2: doing the things. So the fact that he's said this

445
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 2: multiple times, he's never backed away from it. He's been

446
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 2: very consistent. I think you have to take it seriously.

447
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,879
Speaker 2: And also in the context of baby grabbing onto him, this.

448
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:40,160
Speaker 6: Is the greater.

449
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've opened up he said something like, you've opened

450
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 2: up possibilities that never existed before. They've been actively reaching

451
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 2: out to countries be like, hey, will you take Palestinians.

452
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 2: So the plans are being put into place, and you know,

453
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 2: at the same time, the genocidal cartage continues in the

454
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 2: Gaza strip with our weaponry and our bombs and our blessing.

455
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 2: And the latest horror is these fifteen paramedics who were

456
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 2: shot and killed and some of them appeared to have

457
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 2: been shot execution style, and then they were buried and

458
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 2: the ambulances were buried by the IDF to try to

459
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 2: cover up their blatant war crimes. They lied to the

460
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 2: press and the international press and said that oh no, no,

461
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 2: they were approaching us suspiciously and they didn't have their

462
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 2: lights on, and that's why we responded in this particular way. Well,

463
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 2: they did not retrieve the phones of the paramedics who

464
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 2: they had slaughtered, and one of them was recording a

465
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 2: video of everything that happened. That directly robuts the IDFs

466
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 2: lies and Trey yinst Over on Fox News, who, to

467
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 2: his credit, I think, has covered this onslaught in Gaza

468
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,160
Speaker 2: with a lot of integrity, including standing up for Palestinian journalists,

469
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: something that almost none of the American press corp outside

470
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 2: of him has actually done. He did an excellent report

471
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,440
Speaker 2: on catching the IDF in these blatant Wise, let's go

472
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 2: ahead and take a listen.

473
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 9: Paramedics from the Palestine Red Crescent dig through the earth

474
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 9: of southern Gaza. They're recovering the bodies of their colleagues

475
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 9: killed by Israeli forces. On March twenty third, first responders

476
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,879
Speaker 9: were dispatched to this area of Rufa. When they arrived,

477
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 9: Israeli soldiers opened fire.

478
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 10: Health workers should never be a target, and yet we're

479
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 10: here today digging up a mass grave of first responders

480
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 10: in paramedics.

481
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 9: On March thirty first, the IDF provided a statement to

482
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 9: Fox News saying quote several vehicles were identified advancing suspiciously

483
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 9: toward IDF troops without headlights or emergency signals. Video released

484
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 9: five days later by the Palestine Red Crescint directly contradicts

485
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 9: that statement. The IDEF also claimed in the initial findings

486
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 9: that nine out of the fifteen medics operatives in Hamas

487
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 9: and Islamic jihad. Asked multiple times for evidence to support

488
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 9: that claim, none was provided. Funerals were held late last

489
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 9: week for those killed by Israeli bullets. Families mourning the dead,

490
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 9: mothers trying to make sense of the senseless. He went

491
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 9: to save the martyrs and injured, and we've been waiting

492
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 9: for him for a week. We were told that he

493
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 9: was either martyred or injured. But I realized that they

494
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 9: had killed them from the very first moment. They had

495
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 9: killed them and buried them underground. As bodies of these

496
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 9: medics rest inside white plastic bags with a photo attached,

497
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 9: the face of refat Radwan stands out the man who

498
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 9: recorded his final moments with a final message forgive me mother.

499
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 9: This is the path I chose to help that, he said,

500
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 9: Sam Pinium.

501
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 2: And Sager we were talking about is about this like

502
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 2: if you are a journalist who's interacting with the IDF.

503
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: At this point, how do you ever believe a word?

504
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 2: And I'm not even just talking about this incident. How

505
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 2: many times have they just lied flat out two journalists,

506
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 2: face to our face. It just they'll just make up anything,

507
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 2: and only when confronted with indisputable evidence that their narrative

508
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 2: was complete and total bullshit, then they'll do some you know, bullshit.

509
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 2: Oh well, we're going to conduct an investigation. We're going

510
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 2: to figure out Okay, sure, yeah, we've heard that one before.

511
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,400
Speaker 1: No, I mean, it's genuinely sure.

512
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 3: I mean, the thing is is that we just have

513
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 3: to sit here and acknowledge the bravery of trade to

514
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 3: even put that on the air over at Fox News.

515
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 3: You know, I have rarely seen anything like that in

516
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 3: the Western press. I guess the problem is is it

517
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 3: becomes it's only whenever it's genuinely something is completely undeniable,

518
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 3: is it able to make it to air? But then

519
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 3: all these other bullshit claims, oh they had rifles or there.

520
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 3: That was all also pushed by every MSNBC, you know,

521
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 3: all these New York Times, I mean, the New York Times.

522
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 3: Scandal of it is insane I remember Ryan alerting me

523
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 3: to that, just being like they literally just took the

524
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 3: Israelis word for it and then buried it in the

525
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 3: bottom of a paragraph.

526
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 10: Right.

527
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 3: They didn't call anyone at the Palestinian or were sorry

528
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 3: the Red Crescent, and we're like, what's going on here?

529
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 3: You know what, like what actually happened? They did no

530
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 3: reporting on the subject, and this is an organization which

531
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 3: won a Pulitzer Prize for their Gaza reporting.

532
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 5: That's right.

533
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just nuts, But I don't know, it's

534
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 3: I think it's horrifying. The Freedom Zone, the continued, uh,

535
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 3: you know, the continuation of the war. They did say

536
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 3: some words about a ceasefire, but you know, nobody's particularly

537
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 3: optimistic right now.

538
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 2: Well, I guess the one thing he didn't give BB

539
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 2: is I think BB wanted the tariff's taken off of him.

540
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's rank.

541
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 3: He didn't get that Trump is Trump is current. What's

542
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 3: the joke is like Trump is currently employing bds. Yes,

543
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 3: Trump is currently BDS in Israel.

544
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 8: More.

545
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 3: I mean, let's also just linger there on the propos

546
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 3: and this is where you know, uh, you have a

547
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 3: country which would not exist save for the United States,

548
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 3: which provides it some three billion per year, which basically

549
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 3: backstops their entire economy and extends this nuclear security umbrella

550
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 3: over them. Where do you get off having any tariffs

551
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 3: on American goods?

552
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: It's all They don't.

553
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 6: They actually don't.

554
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: I think he rolled them back, okay before, but before then.

555
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 6: When the trade war was threatened.

556
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 4: How is this?

557
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,359
Speaker 1: Who do you think you are? You're tariffing? Are good?

558
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: You wouldn't exist if it wasn't for us. Many such cases.

559
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: Let's move on to Iran.

560
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 3: This is some very important news that's coming out about

561
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,959
Speaker 3: potential deals. This is a potential bright spot and negotiations

562
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 3: that are going to begin to start with Iran. Here's

563
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 3: Trump sounding off about them, much to Bebi's discomfort.

564
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen.

565
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 8: I think if the talks aren't successful with Iran, I

566
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 8: think Iran is going to be in great danger. And

567
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 8: I hate to say it great danger because they can't

568
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 8: have a nuclear weapon. So you know, it's not a

569
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 8: complicated formula. Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. That's all

570
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 8: there is. You can't have it. Right now, we have

571
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 8: countries that have nuclear power that shouldn't have it. But

572
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 8: I'm sure we'll be able to negotiate out of that

573
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 8: too as part of this later and down the line.

574
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 8: But Ran cannot have a nuclear weapon, and if the

575
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 8: talks are successful, I actually think it'll be a very

576
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 8: bad day for a rant if that's the case.

577
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 3: So Trump says that that we are going to be

578
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 3: continuing direct negotiations with Iran that will begin on Saturday.

579
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 3: It does appear that they are legitimate, and there's a

580
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 3: lot going on behind the scenes. Put E two please

581
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 3: up on the screen so people can see. Christ is

582
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 3: from Barak Revid the Netsa Nyah who whisper quote Natanya,

583
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 3: who thinks that the chances of a US Iran deal

584
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 3: are extremely low, but will present to Trump today how

585
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 3: a good deal should look like. Netsayah, who wants the

586
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 3: full Libya model, the full dismantling of Iran's nuclear program. Christal,

587
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 3: can you enlighten me as to why no country on

588
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 3: Earth whatever agree to the full Libya that's the point.

589
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 6: How did that go for Libya?

590
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: How did that go for the leader of Libya who

591
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 2: is now dead and gone. Yeah, I earn on camera

592
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 2: the which is that is the intent of Venettnya, who

593
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 2: is to offer a solution that he knows Iran would

594
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 2: in no country would.

595
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 6: Ever agree to.

596
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 2: And so that's why I think we should all be

597
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: glad that there are potentially direct talks happening and that

598
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 2: there is at least some gesture towards making a deal

599
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 2: with the run. But of course the content of those

600
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 2: talks is going to matter very much. And if BBE

601
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 2: is pushing the quote unquote Libya model, if Trump is

602
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: taking that seriously, then that is obviously going to be

603
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: a non starter. We don't know whether Trump is taking

604
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 2: that seriously, whether he has his own ideas Our friend

605
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: doctor Tree to Parsi was pointing out things that Trump

606
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 2: himself has said in the past about the quote unquote

607
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: Libya model when it was being pushed visa the North Korea.

608
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 2: He this was an attack on John Bolden. He said,

609
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 2: what would John Bolton, one of the dumbest people in Washington. No,

610
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 2: wasn't he the person who's so stupidly set on television

611
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: Libyan solution when describing what the US was going to

612
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: do from North Korea. I've got plenty of other Bolton

613
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 2: stupid stories. So at least in theory, he knows what

614
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 2: a dumb idea. This is whether in practice it applies

615
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 2: in the situation.

616
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 6: We'll have to wait to find out.

617
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

618
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 3: And that's where we all just really have to be

619
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 3: very careful about what's all happening right now. For example,

620
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 3: let's put E three up on the screen. There is

621
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 3: massive movement of US assets in the Middle East right now,

622
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 3: quote from Haretz, record breaking US deployment in the Middle

623
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 3: East amid Trump's nuclear ultimatum for Iran. More US assets

624
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 3: in the region than at any time since October seventh.

625
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 3: Don't forget, you know, despite signal gait, it wasn't just

626
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 3: the one off what happened with the Hoothies. We continue

627
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 3: to bomb the Hoothies on an almost daily basis, basically

628
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 3: continuing the Biden you know, the Biden operation that was

629
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 3: a complete failure. Here Trump, for example, we can put

630
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 3: this on the screen. Uh, this is a video that

631
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 3: was released a couple of days ago. Trump says, quote

632
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 3: these who these gathered for instructions on an attack. Oops,

633
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 3: there will be no attack by these who thies. They

634
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 3: will never sink our ships again.

635
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: This, by the way, this was this was not who

636
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 2: they militant rebels. These were tribesmen who were gathered for

637
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: a religious ceremony. And I do think we also have

638
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 2: to reflect on the fact that it once was a

639
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: scandal when the US.

640
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, they would just classify this murdered civilians.

641
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: I mean, this was you know, one of the major

642
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,959
Speaker 2: revelations of wikileace that created you know, international and certainly

643
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 2: domestic scandal. And now the president just posted himself and

644
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 2: brigs about it like that's.

645
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, no legal authority, no justificating, like, no release of

646
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 3: like who exactly these people were, what it all meant.

647
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: It's just baked in.

648
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 3: You're basically killing people to feel good and for purposes

649
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 3: that's not actually working. There's been no reduction in the

650
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 3: amount of attacks from the Who theis there is no

651
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 3: military solution to this, say for a genuine invasion of Yemen.

652
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: Well, and I didn't sign up for that.

653
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,479
Speaker 2: And they're they're considering it, Yeah, they are considering it.

654
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: So we can put this up on the screen from CNN.

655
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: So they kind of, in my opinion, bury the lead here.

656
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: They say, far from being cowed by US air strikes,

657
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 2: damons who this may be relishing them. But then they

658
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 2: go on to talk about how there are plans being

659
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: formed for us to potentially assist the previous Yumeni government

660
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 2: that you know, there's a big civil war between the

661
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 2: who this and the Yumenis. The Hohothis basically ultimately won

662
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: that civil war.

663
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 6: But apparently we're.

664
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 2: Gonna use our troops to support the Yumenis, maybe for

665
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 2: a ground another ground invasion, in order to deal with

666
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 2: the Houthis since the you know, just relentless bombing has

667
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: only continued to embolden them, not that they haven't taken

668
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: on damage and that they haven't you know that significant

669
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 2: Huthi members have not been killed and their capabilities diminished,

670
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 2: but they are still able to operate, and you know,

671
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: it sort of only does strengthen their domestic position. Really,

672
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 2: so this is these are the plans that are being

673
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: hatched right now to potentially get us involved in a

674
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 2: ground invasion in Yemen.

675
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 3: That worked really well for the Saudias and their bombing campaign.

676
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 3: And finally, I don't know, I still don't yet know what.

677
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: To make of this.

678
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 3: Let's put this on the screen. This is from Tucker Carlson.

679
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 3: Whatever you think of tariffs, it is clear now it

680
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 3: is the worst possible time for the United States to

681
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 3: participate in military strike on Iran.

682
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: We can't afford it.

683
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 3: Thousands of Americans who die, We'd lose a war that follows.

684
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 3: Nothing could be more destructive to our country, and yet

685
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,479
Speaker 3: we are closer than ever thanks to unrelenting pressure from

686
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 3: neo cons This is suicidal. Anyone advocating for conflict with

687
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 3: Iran is not an ally of the United States, but

688
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 3: an enemy. I don't know what the impetus for this is.

689
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 3: I can only assume that it's clear that he knows

690
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 3: something that I don't know, or is hearing something clearly

691
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 3: and takes it seriously enough to be able to put

692
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 3: this out there. Because if you put together the bab visit,

693
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 3: the military assets there, the houthy military campaign, the fact

694
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 3: that Mike Wallace, the moron, gets to survive and live

695
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 3: another day in the White House.

696
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 1: They keep assuring me he is going to be fired

697
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: in a few months.

698
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 7: Not going to hold my breath.

699
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: For that one.

700
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 3: I think there's obviously something that's happening, like the drum

701
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 3: beats are there. I also saw the attack on this

702
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 3: was that it was unpatriotic to say that America would

703
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 3: lose a war that follows or to say that it's

704
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 3: preposterous that thousands of Americans would die.

705
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: Does anyone want to alert all.

706
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 3: Of these neocon geniuses to the number of US troops

707
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 3: that are currently in the Middle East? Like what you

708
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 3: think They're just going to sit there quietly the Iranians

709
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 3: if we do start some sort of military conflict with them,

710
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,720
Speaker 3: is there any reason to put any of those people's

711
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 3: lives at risk? And also, do you know how much

712
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 3: it's cost the current just Trump military campaign two hundred

713
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 3: and six million dollars for the current Houthy operation. I

714
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 3: don't see dose anybody talking about that. Think about it,

715
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 3: if you had a two hundred and six million dollar

716
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 3: operation which was an abject to complete failure, continuation of

717
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 3: a failed policy, that sounds like a perfect job for Doge,

718
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 3: don't you think.

719
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 8: So.

720
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 3: There's so many layers upon layers of a lot of

721
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,439
Speaker 3: this stupidity that's happening right now.

722
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 2: There's also some past indications that are troubling about the

723
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 2: way Trump thinks about a potential Iran war. So he

724
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 2: had famously claimed in twenty eleven and twenty twelve that

725
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 2: Obama is going to start with war with Iran in

726
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 2: order to get reelected.

727
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 6: This is something that he tweeted.

728
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,799
Speaker 2: Out, thinking that oh, that would cause this rally around

729
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 2: the flag effect and that that would help get Obama elected,

730
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 2: which isn't I mean, that's just insane to me that

731
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 2: to think at this point, especially where we are now,

732
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 2: that there would be any sort of US domestic appetite

733
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 2: for some giant war in the Middle East is complete insanity.

734
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 2: But at least in the past he has thought that way.

735
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,959
Speaker 2: And so, you know, is he thinking that this would

736
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 2: be a way to bolster his flagging domestic folitt standing.

737
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 2: I think that's a possibility. I think when you put

738
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 2: together so ken Klippenstein has of course been doing great

739
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 2: reporting about the war plans that have been hatched, including

740
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: potential nuclear options for a war with a RN. He's

741
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 2: also reporting on this mass buildup of military assets in

742
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 2: the region. I'm just read a little bit from his

743
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 2: latest report. He says the largest single deployment of self

744
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 2: bombers in US history, the Pentagon has sent six B

745
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 2: two Spirit aircraft to Diego, Garcia and the Indian Ocean.

746
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 2: The long range bombers, which are uniquely suited to evade

747
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 2: Iranian air defenses and can carry America's most potent bunker

748
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 2: busting weapons flew in from Missouri last week in a

749
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 2: little noticed to operation. The B two is carried not

750
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 2: just bombs, but a message for Iran. Do you see

751
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 2: our sword? As one retired general told Newsmax this week.

752
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 2: Now there is a possibility, Sager, certainly, that all of

753
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: the military build up is meant as a credible military

754
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: threat to try to secure a better deal with Iran.

755
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 2: That's what we should all hoping for. But I do

756
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: think there are a lot of troubling indications. And all

757
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 2: of the neocon think tanks in DC. You cover this

758
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 2: from Quincy Institute that's been tracking this, they are beating

759
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 2: the war drums. And you know, if you have people

760
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 2: like Tucker, who are obviously very well read in and

761
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 2: very well sourced in this administration sounding the alarm, I

762
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 2: think we should all be very concerned. So Sixty Minutes

763
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 2: did a fantastic piece on Sunday breaking down what they

764
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 2: were able to figure out about the men who were

765
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 2: sent under the Alien Enemies Act to that notorious prison

766
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 2: in El Salvador.

767
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 6: We can put this up on the screen.

768
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 2: So the government has not released the names of these

769
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 2: individuals these two hundred and thirty eight migrants who were

770
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: sent to this Salvador In mega prison. But they were

771
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 2: able to get their hands on some leaked government documents

772
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 2: and dug into their you know, purported criminal records and

773
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 2: what they found, because remember we were told these are

774
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 2: gang members, these are the worst of the worst, et cetera.

775
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 2: What they actually found is that for seventy five percent

776
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 2: of these Venezuelans they had no criminal record whatsoever. There

777
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 2: were about thirteen percent that they were not able to determine,

778
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: and for the remaining twenty two percent, they did have

779
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 2: criminal records, the vast majority for things like theft, shoplifting,

780
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 2: and trespassing. At the same time, we can put these

781
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 2: images up on the screen. They delved in particular into

782
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 2: the case of Andre. He is the gay makeup artist

783
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 2: who was legally applying for asylum and was accused by

784
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: the government of being a gang member based on his tattoos.

785
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 2: They spoke to his lawyer. They also were able to

786
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 2: track down these horrific pictures of him being sentenced into

787
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 2: this prison from which no one can communicate with him.

788
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 2: He may be here now for life. And they also

789
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 2: went back through his social media postings and found absolutely

790
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 2: no indication of gang involvement whatsoever. So at the same time,

791
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court has issued a significant victory for the

792
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: Trump administration with regards to these deportations to El Salvador.

793
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 6: Can put this tear sheet up on the screen.

794
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,919
Speaker 2: They're lifting the temporary restraining order on Trump's removals under

795
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 2: the Alien Enemies Act. However, this was a five to

796
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: four decision. There were important to sense what this means

797
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 2: going forward, both for people here and for those who

798
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 2: have already been sent to This prison is a little

799
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 2: bit complex. So we wanted to bring in some legal

800
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 2: backup here. Let's go ahead and bring in Pisco. He's

801
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 2: a YouTuber, but more importantly for our purposes, he's a lawyer.

802
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 2: He's a a litigator and has done pro bono work

803
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 2: in immigration. I've really been relying on him for his

804
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 2: analysis of the legal challenges here.

805
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: Great to have you, Peace Go appreciate it.

806
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 7: Thank you so much, Crystal.

807
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. So let's just start with the most

808
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 2: basic question. Was this a true win for the administration.

809
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,839
Speaker 10: It was a true win for the administration. There is

810
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 10: a core unanimous holding here that is generally good, but

811
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 10: It's kind of something that but most people think take

812
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 10: for granted, which is that people who are going to

813
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 10: be deported are, you know, have access to basic procedural

814
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 10: due process. And so a unanimous Supreme Court nine zero

815
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 10: held that the Trump administration was violating people's procedural due

816
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 10: process rights, or at the very least was they're entitled

817
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,799
Speaker 10: to notice an opportunity to be heard before they're sent

818
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 10: off to this gulog in El Salvador. But at the

819
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 10: end of the day, the temporary Restraining Order, which was

820
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 10: protecting a lot of these migrants, were in fact vacated

821
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 10: by the Supreme Court. And that's a huge win for

822
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 10: the Tump administration for reasons that we can get into.

823
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 3: So can you explain the upholding of due process as

824
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 3: I understand it, It is a different way that they

825
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 3: can apply for scrutiny. There was what was it, the

826
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 3: Administrative Procedures Act, and instead they rule the Supreme Court

827
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 3: says that there must be an access to a habeas corpus,

828
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 3: but in the jurisdiction of where they're being held. So

829
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 3: just translate the things that I just said into something

830
00:40:58,160 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 3: a normal person can understand.

831
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 10: So what they said was the exclusive remedy for individuals

832
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 10: who are labeled alien enemies under the Alien Enemies Act

833
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 10: is to go through a habeas petition and hevieous corpuses

834
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 10: Latin for produce the body. And it essentially it's a

835
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 10: specific kind of old writ that has traditionally been used

836
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 10: in these kinds of cases where people will be allowed

837
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 10: to challenge whether they in fact are alien enemies. And

838
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 10: the court actually said maybe even suggesting they could challenge

839
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 10: the proclamation as a whole, and contrast that to the

840
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 10: Administrative Procedures Act, which is what some of these a

841
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 10: remedy for a lot of these sort of agency type

842
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 10: actions trying to strike down large agency action, and under

843
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 10: that procedure they could apply kind of on the general

844
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 10: policy as opposed to an individual petition to sort of

845
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 10: attack broad policy that the petitioners think is unlawful, and

846
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,760
Speaker 10: in that situation you could file in DC. The ultimate

847
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 10: effect of this is you're going to be funneled into

848
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 10: all of these pro trump courts and tech in Louisiana

849
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 10: in the Fifth Circuit, where they're a lot less willing to,

850
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 10: you know, give these detainees the time of day than

851
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:08,399
Speaker 10: in DC or New York.

852
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 6: Okay, so let's talk a.

853
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,359
Speaker 2: Little bit more about this, because I think this piece

854
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: is really important because on the one hand, you go, okay, well,

855
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 2: they said the Trump administration can restart these deportations under

856
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: the Alien Enemies Act. On the other hand, all my

857
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 2: justices said, what you've been doing is illegal because the

858
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 2: administration's position was no due process whatsoever. Steven Miller has

859
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 2: been very vocal about this.

860
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 6: Christine know elm etcter no due process.

861
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 2: Supreme Court is saying unanimously that is not correct. You

862
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 2: have to offer what they describe as quote unquote reasonable notice,

863
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 2: an opportunity to file habeas corpus lawsuits in the jurisdictions

864
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 2: where they are being held. Can you talk to us

865
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:48,439
Speaker 2: on like a real world, practical basis what this will

866
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 2: actually mean for immigrants who are being threatened with deportation

867
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 2: to present under the Alien Enemies Act, Especially because you

868
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 2: know the definition of quote unquote reasonable notice. It's not

869
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 2: like they say you have to give them a week.

870
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 2: You have to give them even twenty four hours. They're

871
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: leaving it up to the administration to define what, in

872
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,280
Speaker 2: their view is quote unquote reasonable notice.

873
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 7: Yeah, you totally hit the nail on the head.

874
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 10: Like, on the formalism of it, it totally makes sense

875
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 10: right that this would be a great holding. Right there,

876
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 10: they're holding that you have procedural due process rights, you

877
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 10: have a notice to be an opportunity be heard, and

878
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 10: you have the right to notice, which, by the way,

879
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 10: the Trump administration was in court arguing that we don't

880
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 10: even need tell their lawyers where they are. So on

881
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 10: that basic premise, you would think, wow, it's a great holding.

882
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 10: The problem is we're leaving we're living in the real world,

883
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 10: and the reality of the situation is the Trump administration

884
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 10: is already running the government on emergency basis. You can

885
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 10: see this with the tariff situation, where they're declaring fake

886
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 10: emergencies and they're to invoke this limited kind of teriff

887
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,479
Speaker 10: authority to have these broad standing tariffs. And the same

888
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 10: thing is true in respective immigration, that you can't rely

889
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 10: on this administration to be good faith about this situation

890
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 10: and actually give them their habeas petitions that they seem

891
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 10: to admit that they're owned.

892
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 7: Right.

893
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 10: One of the lines that the majority of the Percurium

894
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 10: decision relies on is a notion that the Trump administration

895
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 10: admits that these people are allowed to have habeas petitions,

896
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 10: but that right is meaningless if you're throwing them onto

897
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 10: a plane and taking them out of the country before

898
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 10: they have a chance to like hire a lawyer or

899
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 10: talk to their family. You know, most of these people

900
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 10: probably don't have access to lawyers. Most of the people

901
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 10: who are actually deported unlawfully, now that we know from

902
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 10: the Supreme Court, didn't have an opportunity to have a

903
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 10: real chance to file a petition. The problem is, of course,

904
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,399
Speaker 10: is the government's interpretation and the Trump administration being bad

905
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 10: faith and they're going to interpret reasonable to me, who knows,

906
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 10: you know, a day thirty minutes, this administration is you know,

907
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 10: willing to do whatever it takes to get their agenda done.

908
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 10: And you saw as soon as the decision came down,

909
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 10: Stephen Miller is saying, you know, we're starting the planes

910
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 10: right now, We're going to deport them right away.

911
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 7: And so that's the big problem is that we.

912
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 10: Live in the real world, and in the real world,

913
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 10: all these cases are going to go to Texas in

914
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 10: the Fifth Circuit, where they're not going to be as sympathetic,

915
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 10: and we have an administration who's not going to be

916
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 10: you know, inclined to give them their actual due process rights,

917
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 10: and right now there is no order directing them not

918
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 10: to do so, it's just like the general opinion of

919
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 10: the court that they're not supposed to violate.

920
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 3: What is the practical meaning of reasonable time, like, let's say,

921
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 3: compared to a criminal justice proceding or a normal deportation hearing.

922
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 7: Yeah, when you say what the practical meaning.

923
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 3: Is, what, like, you know, obviously it's a term that

924
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 3: is being said to the government. I assume they can

925
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 3: interpret it to some sort of standard. What does it

926
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 3: normally look like?

927
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 10: Yeah, So it's like in the law, if you've ever

928
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 10: seen that the picture of Atlas holding up the world

929
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 10: and the underneath it, it's like the word reasonable. And

930
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 10: so I can't define in strict contours what the exact

931
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 10: amount of time is. You know, in a typical case

932
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 10: to respond to a complaint, it's you know, a matter

933
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 10: of weeks, two three weeks, you know, a month to

934
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 10: respond to like a civil complaint or something like that,

935
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 10: sometimes a bit longer. And so I think that if

936
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 10: you were to give these individuals some weeks maybe a

937
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 10: month to respond, I think that would be reasonable. Given

938
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 10: the other kinds of general litigation practices.

939
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 7: That we have and the other kind of time limits.

940
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,840
Speaker 10: But again, you know, is there a strict legal holding

941
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 10: about what reasonable means in the context of removal proceedings.

942
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 10: The government also has access to expected removal procedures peceadures

943
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 10: in the context of the Immigration Nationality Act, where there's

944
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 10: not much time at all and there's not much procedure

945
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 10: other than you know, hearing before an immigration judge.

946
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 7: And so it's a good question and one that we

947
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 7: need to contend.

948
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 10: With now that you know that's the words of the

949
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 10: Supreme Court that the administration is left to interpret.

950
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 2: What does this mean for the people who already were

951
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 2: wrongly sent to El salvad Or with no due process.

952
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 2: I mean, we I just covered the sixty minutes fantastic

953
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 2: piece that they did, you know, uncovering this government document listing. Okay,

954
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 2: here's who they actually sent indefinitely into this notorious Megaprison,

955
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,760
Speaker 2: seventy five percent of whom.

956
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 6: Zero criminal record.

957
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 2: The administration themselves has already admitted that at least one

958
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 2: was done in complete error.

959
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 6: So what is is there any.

960
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 2: Recourse for these individuals who have already been sent and

961
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 2: illegally sent at this point, according to what the Supreme

962
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 2: Court had to say to this person.

963
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 10: It's a great point, Crystal, this and the descent brings

964
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 10: this up. You should think of this opinion as dovetailing

965
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 10: with what's happening to mister Abdergo Garcia. In the case

966
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 10: of the individual, he's Salvadorian. He was granted with holding

967
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 10: a removal and the administration accepts that it was illegal

968
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 10: to deport this individual to El Salvador, to scat And

969
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 10: you're asking what can now be done for these individuals

970
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 10: who are already deported illegally right because they weren't given

971
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 10: their day in court, as the Supreme Court has now recognized.

972
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 7: And the answer is, this does not resolve that question.

973
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 10: There's another petition that's going to be before the Supreme

974
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 10: Court asking the uncomfortable question, which is, once you are

975
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 10: in the hands of a foreign government, can the court

976
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 10: order the US government to bring you back? And there

977
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 10: are complications. I want to give you a sort of

978
00:47:58,080 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 10: an example of the Trump administration.

979
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 2: Well, and let me put while you're talking, just guys

980
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 2: through five F five, I believe up on the screen,

981
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 2: which refers to the recent Supreme Court movement here with

982
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 2: regard to this particular case where they've now temporarily blocked

983
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 2: the order requiring an immediate return of this wrongly deported migrant,

984
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 2: but they haven't made an actual decision on the merits here.

985
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 10: So the Supreme Court issued an administrative stay. You shouldn't

986
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,240
Speaker 10: read too much into that decision. It's not a merit

987
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 10: to stay, which means there's no indication from where the

988
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 10: Court's going to lie ultimately on this decision. But it's

989
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 10: important to think about this issue because it's a thorny issue.

990
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 10: On the one hand, think of the government's perspective. Imagine

991
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 10: that there were an order from a US court that

992
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 10: said some of the effect of, hey, you illegally sent

993
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 10: someone over to Gaza, and now that US citizen is

994
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 10: a hostage, let's say we're ordering you to bring him back.

995
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,600
Speaker 10: You can imagine how that might seem like an unwarranted

996
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,120
Speaker 10: intrusion into the executive prerogative to negotiate with Gaza. Or

997
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 10: if it were think about Britney Grinder in the hands

998
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 10: of the Russian Federation. Supposed that the government is alleged

999
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 10: to do something illegal that brought about that situation, and

1000
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 10: a district court somewhere just orders the United States to

1001
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 10: bring them back out of Russian detention. That could seem

1002
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 10: like a crazy standard to allow all these courts to

1003
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 10: intrude them to the executive progatives. So you have to

1004
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 10: understand the government's perspective there. But the difference here and

1005
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 10: what I think is the right outcome and why the

1006
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,439
Speaker 10: Fourth Circuit did not get rid of this district court

1007
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 10: order to bring mister Bregogarcia back, is this is not

1008
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 10: like those situations. This is very much like a contracting relationship.

1009
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 10: The US government is hiring the El Salvadorian president to

1010
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 10: essentially operate immigration attention on the US government's behalf. And

1011
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 10: based on their statements, in the fact that the US

1012
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 10: government is not willing to say that they can't bring

1013
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 10: him back, it seems obvious who's in control here, who

1014
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 10: has the power here, and that the US government, if

1015
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,359
Speaker 10: they wanted to, could absolutely bring mister bregog Garcia back.

1016
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 10: And it's shocking that they have admitted that he is

1017
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,439
Speaker 10: illegally removed from to l Salvador, but they haven't even

1018
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,439
Speaker 10: tried to bring him back at all, or even state

1019
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 10: that they couldn't. They're just saying that we don't have

1020
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 10: to and we don't have to listen to any core

1021
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 10: that says we do.

1022
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 3: What about on the merits of the Alien Enemies Act yourself?

1023
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 3: You said that they had not ruled on that and

1024
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 3: that these future future people could be able to challenge that.

1025
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 3: What does the landscape look like with respect to that

1026
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:21,240
Speaker 3: as a result of this court.

1027
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 10: Decision, as Crystal laid out, a lot of these people

1028
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 10: have really good factual cases for.

1029
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 7: Not in fact being alien enemies.

1030
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 10: The proclamation declaring the or invoking the Alien Enemies Act

1031
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 10: said that you had to be a member of thrend

1032
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 10: that AHUA. The President actually limited the scope of what

1033
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,359
Speaker 10: the proclamation could be if you wanted to and if

1034
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 10: it were a valid invocation, he could target at every

1035
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 10: single even as well and including Green card holders, but

1036
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 10: he limited himself to thn that AWA members. And so

1037
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 10: a lot of these individuals will have good factual cases

1038
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,280
Speaker 10: to challenge whether or not they're in fact alien enemies.

1039
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 10: There's an additional legal question, which is is this even

1040
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,439
Speaker 10: a valid invocation of the Alien Enemies Act at all?

1041
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,320
Speaker 10: Which is, can you consider then that AWA a foreign

1042
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 10: country or if they're not a foreign country, are they

1043
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 10: actually in cahoots with the Venezuelan government, because you need

1044
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 10: that link to a foreign government.

1045
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 7: And then the additional question.

1046
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 10: Of are they invading the United States or are they

1047
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 10: threatening to invade the United States, or are they having

1048
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 10: a physical incursion into the United States. And so there

1049
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 10: are two kind of substantive merits legal questions, which are

1050
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 10: the fundamentals of the proclamation itself related to whether this

1051
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 10: is all fake and obviously it's all fake. There's no

1052
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 10: actual physical invasion into the territory of the United States.

1053
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 7: By then that ahwa.

1054
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 10: And then there's the related question of are the people

1055
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 10: actually designated, assuming the proclamation is valid, actually alien enemies

1056
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 10: and the sort of the reporting that Crystal pointed to,

1057
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 10: it seems that many of them are not. You know,

1058
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 10: there's someone with a they were just picked up because

1059
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 10: of their tattoos, someone with a tattoo for their autistic brother,

1060
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:53,760
Speaker 10: some of the tattoo. You know, who's a gay barber

1061
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 10: who obviously is not a member of the by all reporting.

1062
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 10: And so those are merits determinations that are now going

1063
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 10: to be made much harder because they have to be individualized.

1064
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 10: There's not kind of a broad class action challenge, and

1065
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 10: so they've made it more difficult, but hopefully.

1066
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,839
Speaker 2: So even that determination on the whether or not the

1067
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 2: invocation of the Alien Enemies Act itself that has to

1068
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 2: start on an individual basis with these habeas petitions.

1069
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 6: Is that what I'm hearing you to say.

1070
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 10: So if a court, like an appellate court, held that

1071
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 10: the invocation or proclamation was invalid people, and they had

1072
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 10: like direct appellent overview of whatever court system that were

1073
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 10: most like the Fifth Circuit, it would have presidential effect

1074
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 10: and the effect would be that more courts would deny

1075
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 10: the validity of the proclamation. One of the problems with

1076
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 10: doing all these individualized petitions that you could start to

1077
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 10: see divergent case law or something like that. So the

1078
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 10: end result might be that this might all be funneled

1079
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 10: into one on the actual proclamation itself.

1080
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 7: Gotcha, But it would have to start there. It couldn't

1081
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:55,959
Speaker 7: start with this like kind of large case.

1082
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 6: Gotcha.

1083
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 2: And my last question for you is a piece go.

1084
00:52:58,239 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 2: I watched some of your stream last night, which was

1085
00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 2: very helpful, by the way, and everybody should go subscribe

1086
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 2: to Pisco's Hour, which I've you know, really been enjoying

1087
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 2: glad to see that your growth over there. But you

1088
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 2: mentioned that you thought Roberts might be kind of playing

1089
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 2: politics here, like thinking, OK, I'm going to give the

1090
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 2: administration some w's here, so maybe I build some credibility

1091
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,359
Speaker 2: so later on if we have to give him some ls,

1092
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 2: that'll have more you know, purchase, because we gave them

1093
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:29,439
Speaker 2: things that they wanted earlier on. I've also been thinking

1094
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 2: about the fact, I mean, this is an administration that

1095
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 2: is at least playing with outright defiance of court orders.

1096
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 2: And so if you're the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court,

1097
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 2: you want your institutions still to matter. So maybe you're

1098
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 2: thinking about, like, I really should go along with as

1099
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 2: much as I can so that I don't end up

1100
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 2: in a situation where he does blatantly defy a court

1101
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 2: order and then all of our purported power is just done,

1102
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 2: it's over. So what are you thinking? What is your

1103
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 2: analysis in that regard? And one last note which I

1104
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 2: also thought was interesting. Conservats were very upset about the

1105
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 2: fact Amy Cony Barrett actually joined the Liberals on the descent,

1106
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 2: which was also noteworthy here. And also there was a

1107
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 2: lot of gender dynamics that play there, since you had

1108
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 2: all the women on one side and all the men

1109
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 2: on the other side. But in case if you could

1110
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 2: lay on your analysis of what you think might be

1111
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 2: going on with some of the John Roberts politics here.

1112
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 10: Yeah, I get that impression, because, first of all, there's

1113
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 10: inside reporting that Roberts is concerned about the legitimacy of

1114
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 10: the court, and so there's direct reporting talking to that

1115
00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 10: that's a state of mind. He released that statement about

1116
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 10: Judge Boseberg, who issued the opinion the District Court, and

1117
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 10: that how do you interpret that other than sort of

1118
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,239
Speaker 10: a signaling political act. And so the fact that he's saying, hey,

1119
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 10: we shouldn't impeach this judge. The proper course to complain

1120
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 10: about overreach by the court and about whether or not

1121
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,359
Speaker 10: you're defining orders is to repeal. And by the way,

1122
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 10: the defining orders portion of this is very much still

1123
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 10: at play. Just because the order was ultimately deemed invalid

1124
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 10: because there was no jurisdiction and doesn't mean that you

1125
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 10: still don't have an obligation to follow that order, but

1126
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 10: that it was inherently sort of a political signaling act

1127
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 10: to defend the legitimacy of the court.

1128
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 7: And so I see Judge Roberts.

1129
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 10: As very much concerned about that based on reporting, based

1130
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 10: upon his statements, and based upon these decisions, And the

1131
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 10: same thing with Trump versus the United States, where they're

1132
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 10: always trying to split the baby have a kind of

1133
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,359
Speaker 10: middle ground approach which is not giving a full win

1134
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,840
Speaker 10: to Trump and where the opinion seems completely untailored to

1135
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:31,280
Speaker 10: precedent and completely like preposterous in view of the actual

1136
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 10: real world. Think about the Trump the United States case,

1137
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 10: where he's really putting blinders on and not realizing that

1138
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 10: justice delayed, you know, is justice denied with respect to

1139
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 10: what happened in the January sixth cases. So that seems

1140
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 10: to be his approach from what I can gather in

1141
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 10: my intuition about it and based on the reporting that

1142
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:50,280
Speaker 10: we're seeing. And I think it's a dangerous game because

1143
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 10: these Trump you know, sick of fans, the administration officials

1144
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 10: are not going to be loyal to you or not

1145
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 10: going to respect you anymore, just because you've issued a

1146
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 10: couple of middle ground decisions.

1147
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 7: And I think it's one that he's walking.

1148
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 10: It's also one of the reasons why I think you

1149
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 10: couldn't you shouldn't read into too much of the administrative

1150
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 10: stay into the mister Barreirogarcia case, because in that situation,

1151
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 10: I feel like one of the reasons why he might

1152
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 10: issue an administrative stay is to if you were going

1153
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 10: to rule on the right side, in my opinion, you know,

1154
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 10: trying to get mister Bererogracia back would be to gather

1155
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 10: a consensus to actually have an opinion. If there's going

1156
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 10: to have to be a standoff between the courts and

1157
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 10: the President, have it be with the Supreme Court as

1158
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 10: opposed to the Fourth Circuit. And so I very much

1159
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 10: see him in the game of trying to protect the

1160
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 10: legitimacy of the court and the institution.

1161
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:35,479
Speaker 7: But I just think that he's off the mark.

1162
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 2: I do have one last, sorry legal question for you.

1163
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:39,399
Speaker 6: Piece goes.

1164
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 2: There was a question of whether or not the administration

1165
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 2: did defy court orders with regard to you know, the

1166
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 2: judge had said, even if you have to turn the

1167
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:48,879
Speaker 2: planes around, this cannot go forward. They did not turn

1168
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 2: the planes around. They say the planes were gone, so

1169
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 2: we couldn't do anything, or we didn't want to do anything, we.

1170
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:53,320
Speaker 6: Didn't have to do anything.

1171
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:57,399
Speaker 2: And there were hearings continuing to determine whether they should

1172
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,479
Speaker 2: be held in contempt for defiance of those orders. Wipe

1173
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 2: that out? Is that still ongoing? Like, are where do

1174
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:03,879
Speaker 2: we go from here?

1175
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:04,879
Speaker 7: Yeah?

1176
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,800
Speaker 10: No, you're supposed to follow court orders, even if ultimately

1177
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 10: it's determined that the court does not. It was not

1178
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:12,319
Speaker 10: right in the initial instance to issue the order. And

1179
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 10: that's very much, by the way true. The holding of

1180
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 10: this court is that Boseberg did not have the jurisdiction,

1181
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 10: did not have the right venue to issue these orders.

1182
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 10: But that doesn't mean that you're not still obligated to

1183
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 10: follow that order. And so this does not eliminate the

1184
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 10: contempt proceedings and the hearings that are occurring before Bosburg

1185
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:31,919
Speaker 10: about whether or not in fact they violated the order.

1186
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 10: To me, it's completely obvious that they violated the order.

1187
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 10: I mean, they're all but bragging about it. And if

1188
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 10: you look at the timeline about when the order was given,

1189
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,200
Speaker 10: it was an oral order. But there's nothing less binding

1190
00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 10: about an oral order. They're completely aware about the existence

1191
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:50,439
Speaker 10: of the order. Boseburg is like talking and asking who

1192
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 10: even up to like individual lawyers, was aware of what's

1193
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 10: going on, and so he's doing some fact finding there.

1194
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 7: But they knew about it.

1195
00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 10: They knew they were supposed to turn the planes around,

1196
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 10: and it's preposterous the notion that courts could not order

1197
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 10: a plane to turn around if it had, for example,

1198
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 10: US citizens on board and they were trying to abscond illegally.

1199
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 10: Which is also one of the reasons why all these

1200
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 10: decisions are very problematic, is because they apply at their

1201
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 10: maximum also to US citizens that they couldn't, you know,

1202
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 10: give that order.

1203
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 7: The order wasn't valid.

1204
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:17,480
Speaker 10: And at this point, you know, they're not even trying

1205
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 10: to hide their defiance. They're invoking the state secret doctrine

1206
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 10: when they're blatantly like posting the times of when it

1207
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 10: landed and where the President of El Salvador is like

1208
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 10: meaning over the orders and flouting them. And so to me,

1209
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 10: there's not no question really about the defiance and the

1210
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 10: descent all but accuses them of flagrant disrespect for the

1211
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:37,439
Speaker 10: rule of law and the judge's order.

1212
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 3: Will we see a resolution of that at the court

1213
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 3: or is that a Boseberg contempt?

1214
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:46,560
Speaker 1: Like would it stay within his jurisdiction?

1215
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 10: It could definitely be appealable, and I expect this administration

1216
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 10: appeals everything, and so I would always expect them to

1217
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 10: appeal it. They're supposed to give deference to the factual

1218
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 10: findings of the lower court. That's one of the principles here.

1219
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 10: But you know, they're also not supposed to appeal tros.

1220
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,280
Speaker 10: And there's not supposed to be jurisdiction to the Supreme

1221
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 10: Court for any appellate court to hear a kind of

1222
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 10: disagreement on a TRO. But there's always seems to be

1223
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 10: special rules when the president's evolved, special rules when Trump

1224
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 10: is involved, And so I don't know if they're going

1225
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:18,000
Speaker 10: to pay deference to Judge both Boseburg's findings, and I

1226
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 10: very much expect them to appeal the order and for

1227
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 10: them to say that it's invalid if if he finds,

1228
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 10: for example, that they violated the court order, to say

1229
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 10: that that finding is not applicable as to the president,

1230
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 10: I don't think the President himself is involved, but as

1231
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 10: to the other officials, and so yeah, I don't think

1232
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 10: it'll be finally resolved in the district court, even though

1233
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 10: they're supposed to pay deference to those factual findings.

1234
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1235
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:42,520
Speaker 2: All right, Well, this has been very illuminating. Thank you

1236
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 2: so much for taking some time to break these issues

1237
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 2: down for us.

1238
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:45,120
Speaker 6: Peace go.

1239
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 3: Great to see you, thanks man, Thanks so much, guys, Yeah,

1240
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 3: appreciate Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate it.

1241
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 3: Great counterpoint show for everybody tomorrow. We will see you

1242
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 3: all later.