WEBVTT - Harris vs Trump: Can we trust the polls? 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:01.120 I'm Tamika D. 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:02.320 Mallory and it's your boy. 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:05.800 My son is generally we are your host of TMI. 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:10.520 Tamika and my Son's Information, Truth, Motivation and inspiration name 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.600 New Energy. 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:16.079 What's good, my son, Lennon. 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.120 How you doing today, Tamika D. Mallory. 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:19.920 I'm doing well, doing well. 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:26.680 Still out here crisscrossing this country, meeting people, trying to 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:31.720 deal with misinformation and also just you know, really checking 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:35.040 the temperature of our people. I think that, uh, you know, 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:39.680 folks are getting to that point that you know, we 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.479 always see happen as it gets closer to the election. 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:46.040 A lot of those who were saying we're sitting this 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:48.960 one out or ain't got time to hear this. We're 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.200 working on trying to pay for the bread, the eggs, 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:55.000 the cheese, the milk, the gas, and pay the rent 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:58.640 and election is not that important to us. We're starting 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:02.120 to see folks getting more engaged and kind of you know, 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:06.319 coming to the table. So I think that's good. Also 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:10.560 today we saw an article that was that came out 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:19.760 talking about black political operatives, vendors, funders who you know, 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:25.360 want to see more support from the campaign and you know, 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:29.920 and the Democratic party to help us all of us 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:32.119 do the work on the ground. And I just thought 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:36.160 it was quite funny that for some people who will 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:40.800 write in your comments and mind that we are being 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.959 paid by the Democrats, and then you see an article 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.679 like that come out that really kind of shows that 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:51.400 many people, many of people, as they say, are waiting 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:55.800 for resources to come down. I don't think waiting in 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:57.840 terms of the fact that we're not doing the work, 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:06.280 because there are certainly other sources of funds to help 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.800 do electoral work. But I'm glad to see that people 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.320 are standing up to say to these old you know, 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:18.120 old school political party politics and people who are in 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:22.760 charge to open up the pocketbooks and make sure that 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:28.000 folks have the ability to you know, to do the 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:30.760 work that has to happen in the next forty days. 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.800 Yeah, it's very vital, you know. I say this all 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.960 the time. People expect people to work for free, you know, 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.040 and a lot of us we are passionate because we 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:46.600 understand what's at at stake, So we're doing the work, 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:51.280 you know, naturally because it's something that we actually believe in. 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:54.080 But in order to have a real impact, you know, 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:56.280 you have to be able to have resources. You have 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.120 to be able to be able to fund certain things. 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:04.840 Understand that, you know, the opposition is making sure that 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:10.480 they they fund misinformation, right, they are funded misinformation. They're 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:15.240 doing everything that they possibly can to fund misinformation. And 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.920 this is actually having a told. So if we're not 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:23.679 we're not going to well not we If the Democratic 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:29.600 Party doesn't seem fit to fund combat and misinformation, then 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:34.280 I don't I don't know how they expect to actually 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:38.560 win a selection, you know, and and they should they 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.720 have if they have all the resources necessary. So we 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:46.080 talk about, you know, black people not being funded and 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.440 not having the resources to do the work necessary to 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:53.720 actually win the campaign is disheartening. But you know, I'm 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:58.040 one of those people that want to be optimistic and 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.960 in these next forty forty one how many days forty 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:05.600 one forty two days too, forty two days, you know, 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:10.520 hopefully they hit the ground running and they understand the 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:14.280 seriousness of what we're dealing with. So that's all we 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:17.159 can do, you know, and just hope for the best. 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:21.160 Yeah, I think I think that the resources are starting 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.440 to open up. I mean, one thing I would say 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:27.520 is that you know, this is a campaign that turned 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:32.280 quickly in the last two months really hasn't even been 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:35.640 enough time. Usually, you know, when you have a presidential candidate, 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:40.440 they're running for a solid year or so even more, 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:43.440 and that wasn't the case here. So there is some 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:49.640 of that, but there's also just political operatives who are 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:50.960 in these campaigns. 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:52.440 You know, a lot of people. 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:57.680 Think that that campaigns work just like your regular job, 0:04:57.720 --> 0:04:59.800 where the boss is sitting there and kind of knows 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.120 about the ins and outs of things that's happening. But 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:07.599 you know, when you're looking at politicians and even in 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.599 some corporations and some organizations, there are people that go 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:15.440 out of their way to keep the candidate or the 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.400 principle from knowing all of the details. 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:21.680 They might give a directive. 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:23.400 I want to meet with so and so, or I 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:25.719 want to see such and such thing, and a few 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:29.320 weeks later, maybe even a few months later, and especially 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:33.000 when things blow up in their faces, they're like, well, 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:37.120 what happened and some person made a decision somewhere along 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:40.240 the line that those people we shouldn't have met with, 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:44.279 or we shouldn't be meeting with, or this group shouldn't 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:48.560 be hired, or these people shouldn't be contacted, and sometimes 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:55.479 it is sabotaged, quite frankly. Sometimes it's incompetence. Other times 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:59.800 it's it's racism. And there are times when you know, 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:03.159 it's all about personal friendships, and you know, and and 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.320 and at best it can also be that, you know, 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:10.279 some of these staffers and others are overwhelmed. But whichever 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:13.720 of those things it may be, none of it is acceptable. 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.520 And so you know, I know that, you know, I've 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.120 seen many of the black folks connected to well, I 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.800 can't even say that because I saw some black folks 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.400 in the news the article that came out say some 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:30.320 really dumb stuff, but I you know, I know black 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.960 other black people who are very connected to the campaign 0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:35.120 who have said that. 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:35.720 Uh. 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.880 And Mignon Moore is one of those who was quoted 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:43.760 in the story, who was just recently the convention chair, 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:48.000 saying that she knows for sure that Kamala Harris has 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.160 directed the campaign to do more to make sure that 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:56.279 black grassroots organizations and others have the resources needed to 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:58.839 get out there, knock on doors and organize. 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.000 And I really kind of think I want to put. 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:04.680 Out and I literally want to release to the public 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:09.680 a budget for what it costs to move around the 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:11.880 country to do the type of work that we do, 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.520 because I think that people don't understand. And I'm not 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:18.480 talking about folks in the campaign, because clearly they know 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.440 they've done this work. Many of them started at the 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.880 grassroots level, and so they know. Some of them may 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:28.800 not have started grassroots, but certainly they have had to 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:34.120 have some relationship with people on the ground, and they 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:39.640 know they have received, you know, a number of budgets 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.880 and proposals, so they understand it. But just the average 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:46.760 person who may read an article and say, well, why 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.840 would they be want wanting money? It's like, you know, 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.440 it's crazy, because you know, some people really have no 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.240 clue about what it takes. If you're living in New 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:00.280 York or you're living in Texas, California, or some where, 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:04.160 and now you have the responsibility that either you've taken 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.400 on or you've been hired to do, or something you 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:09.160 want to do to go to another state and be 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.640 there long enough to have to have an impact. You 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.600 need to be able to get there, which costs money. 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.920 You need to be able to stay there, which costs money, 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.720 and you need to be able to eat while you're there, 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:25.360 and to move around. To travel around, you need a 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:29.000 first aid kit with you. You know, it might be cold, 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:33.040 it might be raining cats and dogs one day, and 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:34.560 you got to go out and be able to buy 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.440 ponchos so you can continue to walk your routes. You 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:41.360 might need umbrellas, you might need you know, if somebody 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:43.880 might feel sick and need talent or like, should you 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:48.920 be going in your pocket to pay for expenses related 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.280 to work that you have to do in order to 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:52.560 help all of us? 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:57.880 Ye, especially especially when these campaigns are raising so much 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.240 money and that's what is supposed to be allocated too. 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.480 So you know, it's like you said, there's a lot, 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:09.120 and I second the notion that you should actually break 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.880 that down so people can have some you know, civics 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:14.719 one O one. A lot of people just don't know, 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:19.480 so I don't fault them for not knowing. So that's 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:21.760 what that's what we're here for. As we learn, we 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:22.199 need to. 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:28.880 Teach, absolutely absolutely that's our responsibility. Well, you know, today, 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:33.480 speaking of learning and teaching, we have invited Reverend Mark 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:34.800 Thompson to be with us. 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.480 I appreciate that. 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:40.200 You know, as I'm talking to Mark every day, I 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:43.760 get the pleasure and you do as well. For all 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:47.240 of our group chats, but beyond group chats, I speak 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.240 to Mark at least three or four times in each day, 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:54.360 and I feel, you know, every time I talk to him, 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.319 either I learned something or I debate with him. 0:09:57.360 --> 0:09:59.000 We spa in conversations. 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:01.319 We go back and forth because I you know, I 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:05.120 like to say that I learned so much from everybody else, 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.360 but I teach sometimes sometimes I. 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:08.840 Teach and so uh. 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.480 But but I certainly know that when I'm finished talking 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.559 to Mark each day, I have different thoughts about what 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:16.840 we have, the information we've got to get out to 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.640 our people, and so uh. You know, he's going to 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:23.160 be joining us today. I know folks are wondering when 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:27.320 are we coming back visually. We're coming back soon. We'll 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:29.719 be back in the studio. The lot of things are 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:35.559 changing about you know, how we will return with our visuals. 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:38.080 We are going going for an upgrade. We're going for 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.839 something a different type of experience, and we're excited about 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:46.559 what's happening in too and with tam I stick with us, 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:51.199 you know today, please listen, listen closely to the information 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:55.040 that you're about to get from Reverend Mark Thompson as 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.600 we bring him up, Reverend Mark Thompson from making it plain. 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:01.480 Our brother. 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.920 Yeah, it's our brother, man. So we're no further ado. 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:07.680 We're going to bring our brother to the chef. 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.240 Well, you know, our friends are back on with us 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:18.720 today as we continue to talk about this election and 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.080 really look at all that is happening across the country. 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:27.840 Is so important that we defeat the misinformation and the 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:33.800 disinformation that's online, the disinformation that's being shared by even 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:38.360 people who we consider to be icons. And you know, 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:43.160 I think that, you know, one of the huge points 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:49.920 of contention has been this issue around polling and whether 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:52.000 or not you know. Every time you turn around, you 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:57.560 see different individuals talking about, you know how or different 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:01.480 different people who claim to know based upon polls, where 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:05.960 black people stand, where different communities stand. And I'll tell 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.520 you I have never I may have been pulled one time. 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:11.360 I think I picked up the phone in my house 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:15.000 one day and someone was polling me about, you know, 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.080 some issue in New York City. But other than that, 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:20.559 I've never been polled. I don't know if you've been pulled, 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:21.280 my son. 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.320 I don't think i've ever. I don't even know what 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.400 it looks like to be polled. So I don't think 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:32.880 those those entities come to the communities that we actually inhabit, 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:39.880 So those polls don't really get the full scope, especially 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:43.559 in our communities, of what's going on. So and I've 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.320 seen those polls fail, you know what I'm saying. I 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:52.080 watch I literally watched those polls completely fail. And I know, 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:56.760 I think for me, right, just being in this, being 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:02.640 in politics and just studying for the last decade, I 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.800 understand that there's a there's a feeling and there's a 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:10.480 vibe inside of communities, especially that we inhabit, that tells 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.680 you different than a lot of these polls, do you know, 0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:16.480 And and when you try to explain that, you know, 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:21.240 I remember, I remember Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, and 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:23.880 the polls are saying this, and the pose are saying that, 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:26.360 and the streets wasn't saying that. 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:29.720 And I kept and I kept reiterating it, and and 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.400 then you know, and we actually seeing the outcome of that. 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:37.640 So you know, to your question, I haven't been polled. 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:41.600 I don't even understand if those polls actually work. 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:47.840 So, so our brother Mark Thompson reberend Mark Thompson of 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:54.840 Naked Plane, His Zone show that you know, really covers 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:59.120 all of these political issues and more. I always say 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:03.360 that Mark Thompson certainly one of the most brilliant not 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:09.720 just members of the clergy, but strategists of our time, 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.280 and we're very blessed to have him as a part 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:17.840 of the think tank and until Freedom and Tonight he 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:22.200 is joining us to talk through what we learned from polls, 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:26.359 what we learn from the information that's out there online, 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.920 and how we can be more accurate in terms of 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:31.920 and I don't know, maybe there's not a way to 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.240 be more accurate. Maybe there's always going to be these 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.640 margins that are off, but I mean it seems to 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.240 be really off because to your point about Hillary Clinton, 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.600 I mean, she lost, and I'm sure Mark, you have 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:47.560 plenty to say about how that happens. So thank you 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.680 for joining tam Maya're not a stranger to the show. 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.200 We appreciate you for making yourself available. 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:56.960 Well, good to be with you all. As always, there's 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:58.520 a lot going on, a lot to talk about. 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:02.920 Yeah, absolutely so, Mark, we're talking about polls. I've only 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.600 been polled one time, my son saying he's never been pulled. 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:10.560 That's because he refuses to keep a house phone. So 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:14.160 I don't know what are some of the other ways 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:15.280 that polls happen. 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:22.360 Well, this actually may be one of the first political 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:29.080 cycles where people are getting dialed by on their cell phones, 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:32.520 and so that does make a difference because normally that 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:36.080 doesn't happen. And when we're talking about younger people, people 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:39.280 of color, you know, people don't have home phones anymore, 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.560 So that does make a difference. So this one may 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.600 be slightly more accurate. These polls now may be more 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.200 accurate in that regard some polls. 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:51.960 And you have different types of polls. 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:57.680 Some polls are slanted right, some are slanting more centrist, 0:15:58.000 --> 0:15:59.560 some are slanting more liberal. 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:02.320 That's why the rule of thumb. 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.040 And while the news media will make stories and headlines 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:09.960 every day about this poll and that poll, that keeps 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:15.320 an interested That helps the news media, you get people engaged. 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:17.840 But the best way to look at polls is to 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:20.880 look at aggregate polls, to look at all the polls 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.840 that are out there and start doing averages, and then 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.040 you may come up with something that's a little more accurate. 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:31.760 Now they they add another wrinkle. We just don't know 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:37.080 sometimes how honest some people are being when it comes 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.000 to polling, and I think that's one of the things 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.760 happened that happened in twenty sixteen with Hillary Clinton. But 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.600 I will say this, we also know Hillary Clinton actually won. 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:51.760 See the problem is when we look at polls, we 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:55.720 never consider the electoral college until after election day. And 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:57.840 so Hillary Clinton won the majority of the votes in 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.520 this country. She won that election in terms of actual 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:04.000 millions in popular vote. 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:05.080 She just did not. 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:08.480 Win the states that she needed to win, and between 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.840 one hundred thousand, just a little over one hundred thousand 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.320 votes spread out amongst three states, she lost the election. 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:19.359 So we can look at polls until we're blue in 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:23.560 the face. What happens in the individual states, What happens 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:27.040 when it comes to electoral college is the answer. Now, 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:32.160 maybe we should not assume or presume that everybody has 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:36.480 a full understanding of the electoral college. So I don't 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:38.719 Maybe we need to go over that how that works, 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:45.040 and that being folks in America, you have to win states. 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:51.600 States have electors. Each state has a number of electors. 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:57.320 Those are the people whose votes are sent to the 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:01.240 capitol like they were on January sixth, the day Donald 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:07.399 Trump and his ilk had the insurrection. Each state has 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:12.600 a different number of electors, and the reason for that 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:18.159 is because during the period of enslavement, you had some 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:23.760 states with more people who look like to Meeke a 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:29.720 mice and myself than white folk. But no one, of course, 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:35.000 wanted people who looked like us, wanted enslaved people to vote, 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:38.239 and so you have to make up for that. You 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:42.439 have to compensate for that so that those states still 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:47.480 have an equal or proportionate amount of weight to other states. 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:49.879 And so you did that with the electoral college. You 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.480 made sure that certain states had a certain number of 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.960 electors to make them relevant, to make them important. Not 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:05.600 one time, up until this era of Republican presidents being 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:10.000 elected without a majority of the popular vote with electors, 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:13.240 people used to make the same argument, Well, some states 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.280 of what you call fly over states, they don't matter, 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:22.919 They're not important for Iowa, Montana, flyover states. Nobody campaigns 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:29.080 in those states because they're so rural they don't matter. 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:33.760 But because they have electoral votes that can tip an election, 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:39.840 then the electoral college matters, and so that makes them relevant. 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:42.720 But now more and more, as we see a number 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.600 of presidents have been elected to the White House without 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.680 a popular vote. There's a more popular call, a more 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:55.959 popular cry, for the electoral college to be done away with. If, 0:19:56.520 --> 0:20:00.600 for example, the Democrats get enough votes in the Senate, 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:04.240 they must they may just be able to do that 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:08.440 to get rid of the electoral college. But I've said 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:10.840 a lot a pause there. I'm sure you have some 0:20:10.880 --> 0:20:14.080 follow up questions. But that's the way it works. They're posed. 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:18.040 There's the electoral college. It's not meant it, frankly, to 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:24.240 be the most simple or most understandable process, because once again, 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:30.600 this America, this country was built on the back of 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.560 our enslaved ancestors, and that is why we have the 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:34.959 electoral system that we have. 0:20:35.280 --> 0:20:38.080 So I'm hearing what you're saying, and you're right, it's 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:42.159 a lot to consume, right, And I wonder with the 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:43.080 electoral college. 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:44.560 I kind of go back and forth. 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:50.760 Sometimes I understand the cries and demands to do away 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:54.000 with it, but then I also understand that a state 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:58.760 like or states like California and New York, because of 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:01.879 the amount of people we have, we could pretty much 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:08.840 set the election or decide the elections. 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:12.400 All the time. Is that accurate? And do you think. 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:16.639 That's fair, like what would be what's your position on that? 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:23.520 At one time I did have concerns about that. Those 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:27.399 are not illegitimate concerns because the other thing about that 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:29.359 is is I mentioned some of the other states that 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:32.840 are considered flyover states, like even a state like Pennsylvania. 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:39.000 Who would spend money campaigning in Pennsylvania or Iowa or 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:42.840 in other states if we simply relied on a popular vote, 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:45.400 you can spend most of your time campaigning in big 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:50.800 states like New York and California and Texas and make 0:21:50.840 --> 0:21:56.240 a difference, So that that is not an illegitimate concern. 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:00.840 But we got to come up with something better because 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:06.000 you've got a couple of states where a handful of people, 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:08.280 you can't go from one extreme another. You can't have 0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:15.360 a over popular or states with large populations exclusively deciding 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:19.560 an election. And then what we have now states were 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:24.000 very small populations and an election being decided by just 0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:27.600 a handful of people. Like I said, Jill Stein, peeling 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:31.880 off one hundred and fourteen thousand votes within three states 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:36.119 made Donald Trump the president in twenty sixteen. That's just 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:41.880 bizarre and crazy. Jill Stein will never be elected president 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:44.840 yet her being able to steal those handful of votes 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:48.720 made Donald Trump president and look where that has left us. 0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:53.280 So there has to be a better system. And frankly, 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:57.080 we're the only country left in the world that doesn't 0:22:57.119 --> 0:23:00.000 do it based upon popular vote. 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:04.720 So, Mark, you said that somewhere I'm not sure, but 0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:08.960 I saw people pushing back saying, no, Hillary lost because 0:23:09.359 --> 0:23:13.000 she didn't campaign well in certain states and she did 0:23:13.040 --> 0:23:18.639 not make she didn't meet the electoral college number, you know, 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:22.439 in certain places. So can you speak more to that, 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:25.560 because there certainly was some pushback on that point when 0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:29.960 I posted no, No, it wasn't you. It was Joyanne 0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:34.159 Reid who spoke about Jill Stein and the Third Party 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:40.960 or Green Party and their you know, their efforts being 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:47.000 a reason why Hillary didn't win, and people were pretty 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:49.680 upset about that. So could you maybe speak more to that. 0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:53.480 Well, there were. 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:58.320 Several states Jill Stein was in was on the ballot 0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:03.560 in a number of states, and when you look at it, 0:24:03.880 --> 0:24:05.919 I don't necessarily. 0:24:07.520 --> 0:24:11.320 Agree that it was about campaigning. 0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:17.600 There was an alternative, and there were voters spread across. 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:23.560 Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. 0:24:24.680 --> 0:24:28.160 Now, there was an argument made that perhaps Hillary Clinton 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:35.480 should have gone to Wisconsin a bit more. That is 0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:39.679 an argument some have made. Objectively, we've heard that, but 0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:46.439 the margin was so slim, like I'm saying, this was 0:24:46.800 --> 0:24:48.600 barely one hundred thousand US think about one hundred and 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:52.040 fifteen thousand votes spread across these three states. 0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:57.320 The likelihood that Hillary. 0:24:57.119 --> 0:25:02.560 Clinton campaigning more in those three states would have changed 0:25:02.600 --> 0:25:07.520 those one hundred thousand votes is not clear. People had 0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:13.760 an alternative. They voted for Jill Side, and because that 0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:18.400 alternative was there, those are the numbers. That is the 0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:25.479 margin of victory or the margin of defeat for Hillary Clinton. 0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:31.439 I mean, that's pretty objective. That math doesn't lie. One 0:25:31.520 --> 0:25:40.600 can only hypothesize that those voters would not have gone to. 0:25:42.040 --> 0:25:42.719 Donald Trump. 0:25:43.920 --> 0:25:47.320 And usually when you have a situation like that, you 0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:51.560 have three candidates and one is far to the right, 0:25:52.440 --> 0:25:58.760 one is center left, as Hillary Clinton was, then you 0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:03.760 one must hope or hypothesize that those voters might have 0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:07.920 gone to Hillary Clinton. That would have made the difference. 0:26:08.440 --> 0:26:10.760 But that's what we know. That's what we know happened 0:26:10.760 --> 0:26:15.080