WEBVTT - #242 Jason Flom with Paul Cortez 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:05.880 In two thousand and five, Paul Cortes was pursuing his 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:09.640 theatrical and musical career in New York City while intermittently 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:13.240 dating twenty one year old Katherine Woods, an aspiring dancer 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:17.840 from Columbus, Ohio. Catherine also allowed her ex boyfriend David Hahn, 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.360 who struggled financially and with drug addiction, to stay in 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.160 her Manhattan apartment until he got back on his feet. 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:27.840 On November twenty seventh, two thousand and five, Catherine was 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.160 brutally stabbed to death in her apartment, with police and 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:34.239 ear witnesses placing the time of the crime between six 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:38.120 twenty and six twenty five pm. Hawn called nine one 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.440 one at six point fifty pm and named Paul Cortes 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:45.200 as the murderer when the police arrived. When police found 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:48.879 one of Paul's fingerprints that they mistakenly believed was impressed 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:51.600 in blood rather than an old print that had been 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:55.600 covered by blood, Paul became the prime suspect, even though 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:59.360 surveillance footage in front of Catherine's building only placed David 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.400 Haun at the seat. Paul was arrested and charged with 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:06.880 her murder. With Paul's defense failing to question this fingerprint 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:11.800 or present key exculpatory evidence, including the surveillance footage as 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:16.039 well as the attacker's DNA from the victim's fingernails and hands. 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:20.520 Paul was convicted and sentenced to twenty five to life. Well, 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:23.440 now check in with Paul and his attorney Tony Marie 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:28.000 Angeli to see where his case stands. This is wrongful Conviction. 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:44.320 Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. Today's case is going to 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:46.080 blow your mind. You know, I thought I had seen 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:49.160 everything until I heard about the case of Paul Cortes. 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:55.200 This case it has racism, it has incompetence on official levels, 0:01:55.360 --> 0:02:00.720 it has junk science, but it also has attorneys representing 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:05.880 the defendant who themselves were committing numerous crimes before, during, 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:09.160 and probably after the trial. So yeah, sorry, I'm a 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:11.840 little worked up today, but you will be too by 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.080 the time you finished hearing this episode. This is Wrongful 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:19.960 Conviction Behind bars, where today's guest is, of course, Paul Cortes. 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:23.320 And Paul. I'm really sorry you're here because of the circumstances, 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:24.959 but I'm really happy to have you on the air. 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.720 Thank you, Jason. I'm just very grateful for you to 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:30.680 have me on the show and to be able to 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:32.680 finally get my story out. 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:37.000 There and with us today is Tony Marie Angelie of 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:40.320 the Angelie Law Firm. I hope you're never in trouble, 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:43.680 but if you are, you should track her down because 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:45.960 she's a pitbull, and I mean, then the best way, 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.600 Tony Marie. I'm glad you're here, thank. 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:50.320 You, and I am so happy to be here. 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:55.480 So, Paul, you came from a poor neighborhood in the Bronx, right, 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:56.760 What was your childhood like? 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:59.960 Well, I was just like any normal kid in the Bronx, 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.120 coming from a Puerto Rican family. My mom raised us 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:06.160 three kids. My father left when I was younger, and 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:10.640 my mom remarried later on. My mom always pushed academics 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:13.000 and doing well in school, so I think it was 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:17.040 around twelve I had tested into private schools and I 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:20.320 started going to private schools Manhattan for junior high and 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:23.919 then high school. During that time, I was into sports, 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:26.760 I was in the theater, I was in the arts. 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:30.920 I auditioned all of these colleges and I eventually got 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:34.839 into Boston University and I earned my bachelor's in fine arts. 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:36.640 I was the first in my family to go to 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.760 college and to graduate. I was in two thousand and 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:42.520 three when I graduated, and after that, I came back 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.920 to New York to pursue a life in the arts, 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.600 and I was very hopeful at that time for accomplishing 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:50.120 my dream. 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:55.040 So now you're auditioning for rent, making your way in 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.520 the city that never sleeps, coming from a background that 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:01.560 normally most people don't managed to make it to anything 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:05.440 like their dreams. So what was happening back then? Take 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:07.840 us back to two thousand and three. 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.800 I had signed with the talent agency and I was 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.640 very excited about that. I went on several auditions and 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.039 I was also doing music on the side as well. 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:20.760 It was really fun. I was living life to the 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:21.880 fullest at that time. 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:26.320 Now here we go to December two thousand and five. 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:30.320 You are working as a physical trainer and a yoga instructor, 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:35.919 doing your auditions, completing your solo musical album. And the 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.960 person at the center of this was your on again, 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.920 off again girlfriend. And that woman who was the victim 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:45.039 in this case is a woman named Katherine Woods. 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.400 Yeah, Katherine was twenty one at a time, and she 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.640 was a really special person and I really cared for her, 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:55.560 and she had a great relationship. And like any relationships, 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.360 there are ups and downs, but I always cared for her. 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:02.360 So she was taking voice and dance lessons, working part 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:06.320 time jobs at a hair salon, was seeing several different men, 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:09.719 that's her choice, you know, No judgment here, and she 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.680 worked as a stripper at night under the alias of Ava. 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.919 She had told her parents and friends that she was 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.200 dancing in an off Broadway show as a character named Ava. 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:24.160 So I mean, again, no judgment here, but it does 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:28.239 present a complex picture of a person. Then, as fate 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:32.679 would have it, when she was visiting her family in Columbus, Ohio, 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:36.400 she met a troubled guy named David Hahn. Now David 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:38.640 was a guy who had grown up in foster homes 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.279 in Columbus and dropped out of high school. At the 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.000 time he met Catherine, he was unemployed and attempting to 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.479 make it as a rapper, and not too long after 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:49.800 they met he moved to New York to live with her. 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.000 He struggled financially and bounced around, couldn't hold the job, 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.960 and she paid most of his bills. But weeks before 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.719 the murder, Catherine had asked David to move out, but 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:01.800 he struggled with drug so she had recently allowed him 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.320 to move back in and sleep on the couch. Now 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:08.880 can you sort of fill in the blanks here, Paul, Well. 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:12.520 She was definitely trying to get him out of the apartment, 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.640 and several times where she had asked him to and 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.480 was successful, he would call her depressed and threatening to 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.200 kill himself. And it was kind of a vo little situation. 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.800 She always said that he's like family and that she 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.240 really cares about him. She kept a lot of it 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:29.680 to herself. She was very private in that sense. 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:33.560 And then in April two thousand and five, Catherine was 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.479 drugged at one of the strip clubs that she worked at. 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.320 What a nightmare, Paul. Can you tell us what happened 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:40.600 with that. 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.080 She called me at the club and she asked for help, 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:48.360 and I hurried down. She was really messed up. She 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:50.360 could hardly walk, and she didn't want to go back 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:52.920 to her apartment, so I just brought her to a 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.560 hotel and set her up there and got her to 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.919 go to the hospital because she was worried that she 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:04.120 might have gotten raped at that time, so being concerned 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:07.000 about it all I went back and called her parents. 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:09.560 I thought maybe her parents could talk to her and 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:13.040 help her out, But she got upset at me because 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:15.600 that night life was something that she didn't discuss with 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:16.160 her family. 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.720 And while I think that any reasonable person who cared 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:20.840 about somebody as you did might do the same thing 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:22.880 if they were in your shoes, this caused a real 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:26.280 rift between you two, and when questioned by her father 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:28.920 about what you had told him, Catherine said that you 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.320 were crazy, that she was not working as a strip 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:35.440 or involved in anything dangerous. Her dad believed her, and 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.720 she then broke up with you, although several weeks later 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:42.040 you both reconciled and got back together. So sometime after this, 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.280 you went to Catherine Tobn happened to meet David. Now 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.280 the two of you only met this one time, but 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:51.200 David had been unaware of your and Catherin's relationship, and 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:54.800 when he found out, he became very upset, feeling misled. 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.480 And so this now brings us to November twenty seven, 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:00.960 two thousand and five, when miss Wood was found stabbed 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:03.920 to death in her Upper East Side apartment. According to 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:07.720 police reports and ear witness testimony, the attack happened in 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:11.840 two parts, first around six pm and then finally around 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:15.960 six twenty three pm with four count of four witnesses 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:20.200 hearing Catherine screaming and crying. Now, David had initially told 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.200 police that he left the apartment twenty minutes before he 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:25.800 called nine one one at six fifty pm that evening, 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.400 which would have placed him within the apartment during that 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.880 exact timeframe described by the witnesses, and when police arrived 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:37.680 on the scene, David immediately named Paul as the killer, 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:42.520 holding up a CD of Paul's music. I mean, it's unreal, Okay, So, 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:46.960 Tony Marie, tell us about the investigation and what was 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:50.959 it that shifted the focus to Paul and away from David, 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.320 who would have seemed like the obvious suspect. 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:58.839 Well, initially law enforcement had identified David Hahn as the perpetrator. 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:00.600 Everything that he. 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.200 Said at the time, Looking back now with twenty twenty hindsight, 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:08.880 it was deceptive, it was inaccurate, and it showed that 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:13.280 he was a perpetrator. But what happened was law enforcement 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:17.720 found this bloody fingerprint which they called it, which it 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:22.439 actually isn't in the apartment, and the focus switched to Paul. 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:25.960 Right, and this fingerprint plays such an important role throughout 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.480 this whole story. So investigators found this fingerprint, but it 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:34.000 didn't match David Haunt, and Paul becomes the prime suspect. 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:38.040 But this fingerprint is actually a latent fingerprint and not 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:42.240 a patent fingerprint, which is what it was incorrectly believed 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.040 to be. Can you break this down for us real quick. 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:48.640 Well, anytime we touch a surface, we can leave a fingerprint, 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:52.319 and that could be from our sweat or if something 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.480 was on our hands, So you would leave a print 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:59.240 and it would not be made from another substance that 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.960 went on top of So if you leave a print 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:04.560 and then a substance goes on top, that's latent. 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.720 And if the print is made of the substance. 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.959 Like they argued at trial, they argued that the fingerprint 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.080 was peyton made of blood, which it is not. 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.080 It was latent, preexisting exactly. 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:19.400 So the fingerprints already there and then the blood ends 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:21.679 up on top of it. And this makes sense that 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.640 Paul's fingerprints were there, as he and Catherine had been 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:27.480 in a relationship and he'd been to her home many 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.960 many times. So was there any other evidence at all 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:31.880 that pointed to Paul. 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:36.080 The case against Paul was really founded on two or 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:39.560 three pieces of evidence, so they had their team in 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:43.400 there for days documenting this very bloody crime scene. It 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.440 was a big fight in there, and that led to 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.400 this fingerprint that was on the wall. The other piece 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:54.240 of evidence was cell phone records, Paul's cell phone records, 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.400 Catherine's cell phone records, and David Han's cell phone records, 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:03.680 and the prosecute and the police built a theory that 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:08.440 Paul was texting and leaving these messages, was this jilted lover, 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.280 and that she was rejecting him. He was full of 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.400 rage and killed this girl. It's not actually supported by 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:17.880 any of the evidence, but that was their theory. 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:21.720 Here's where things started spinning out of control in my opinion, 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.680 which is that immediately after the murder, the police leaked 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:28.440 erroneous information, a false information called what You went to 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:31.680 the media relating to the investigation, and they ate it up. 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.719 TV news and newspapers were filled with stories with this 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.760 false narrative of a scary, alleged Puerto Rican predator from 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:42.560 the Bronx taking the life of this sweet, innocent girl 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:46.199 from the Midwest, and so the media made it about race, 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.920 and one of the stories even cited anonymous police sources 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:53.720 with reports of an alleged confession letter alleged existence of 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.840 a surveillance video showing Paul leaving the crime scene, which, 0:11:56.840 --> 0:12:00.240 of course all of it was totally false. In fact, fact, 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.360 the exact opposite was true. 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:05.880 There was a video that proves my innocence, a video 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:09.920 that shows their original suspect leaving the crime scene thirteen 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:13.560 minutes after the commission of the crime. And I'm nowhere 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.720 on this video at all, and I'm nowhere on any videos. 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:20.319 And the cops and the DA's office, they were leaking 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.760 information to the media saying, oh, he was on camera 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:26.480 around the time of the crime and all of this, 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:30.199 But they had the video that showed their original suspect 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:33.560 entering into this scene and coming out thirteen minutes after 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:36.640 the crime. It's just horrendous. 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:51.439 This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company. 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:55.280 AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:58.120 a positive difference in the lives of its employees and 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:00.800 in the communities where we work and live. In light 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.640 of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance and 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:07.680 in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform. 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:11.760 The AIG pro Bono program provides free legal services and 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:23.480 other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. While Paul awaited 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.439 trial at Riker's Island, his family pulled together their life 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.880 savings to retain Dawn Florio and her colleague Laura Miranda 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:34.160 to represent Paul at trial. Now, unfortunately, that's not even 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.360 a strong enough word. Unbeknownst to Paul and his family, Florio, 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:41.120 while she was representing Paul, she was simultaneously under indictment 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.480 by the same prosecutor's office for smuggling drugs into a 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:49.160 client at Rikers Island. The case against Florio received repeated 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:52.120 adjournments and the court bile remained sealed to this day. 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:54.600 But all of this came to light as the trial 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.800 was starting and the trial judge, Judge Berkman, did not 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:01.240 do a proper conflict inquiry which is called Gomberg inquiry, 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.920 basically telling Paul that they didn't see how it would 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.240 be a problem and inferred he would have to go 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:11.079 to trial without counsel if he pursued the matter further 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.080 unreal so he would have had to represent himself. I 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.760 mean it's nuts. Okay, So, Paul, you'd been waiting for 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:23.880 eighteen months at Riker's Island, a notoriously dangerous, chaotic, and 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.960 scary place, and this is how your trial was starting. 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:29.920 I mean, what was that like? 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.000 Yeah, I basically my lawyers didn't show up for the 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:36.200 first three days of trial, and it was just a 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.760 mess from the beginning. They seemed ill prepared. 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.320 Well, I think some people in our audience may well 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.640 say themselves, Wait a minute, I thought I heard him 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:46.960 say that his attorneys didn't show up for the first 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.840 three days of trial. But that can't be true. 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.360 Yeah, you're right, they didn't show up. I didn't know 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:53.040 where they were. 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.040 And it's so bad that one of your attorneys was 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:58.440 held to contempt of court and actually find one thousand 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:00.280 dollars for not showing up. And when they they did 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.760 show up, they didn't even pretend to make an effort 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.160 to represent you. So, Tony, Marie, the two defense attorneys, 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:09.600 Florio and Miranda, can you talk about the myriad errors 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:10.880 that they made during the trial. 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.840 Well, they didn't hire any experts, and they didn't develop 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:17.120 any of this evidence. They didn't go to the scene, 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.440 they didn't speak to the witnesses. The one thing they 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:25.920 did do was they contacted a fingerprint expert. I spoke 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:28.840 to that expert. I got an affid David from him. 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:33.760 What is chilling is that expert actually told the defense 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.840 that there was a problem with the fingerprint, it looked 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:39.800 like it was latent, and they should have the sheet 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:44.320 rock examined and test the medium. So the one direction 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:48.800 they got they were actually given information as to how 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.720 to disprove this by an expert. They didn't call the expert. 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:53.640 They didn't do it. 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:56.560 And we haven't even touched on one of the biggest 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.680 things here, which is the surveillance video that Paul mentioned earlier, 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:03.680 and this is it just blows my mind. On the video, 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.760 you can clearly see David Hahn leaving the apartment at 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:11.640 six point thirty seven, and there's the time stamp right 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:16.280 on the video, and that's just thirteen fourteen minutes after 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:20.320 this brutal murder took place at six twenty three. But 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:24.000 the defense attorneys didn't show this to the jury because 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.040 it turns out that while they had the video, they 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:30.240 didn't know this was there because they hadn't even bothered 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:31.600 to watch the whole video. 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.120 The defense didn't bring it to light, and the prosecutor 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:39.640 went forward and argued and presented evidence that we now 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:45.800 know affirmatively was untrue, and we now know affirmatively he 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:50.240 knew at the time. So it is a profound injustice 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:55.640 and failing of all the pieces of our system that 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:56.440 we rely on. 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:00.760 Okay, So the state presented mostly circumstance evidence, like the 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.640 high volume of calls you mentioned, and the only physical 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.919 evidence presented was the latent fingerprint, which we've talked about. 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:10.600 But the state also presented what they described as evidence 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:14.120 but can only really be described as somewhere between ridiculous 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:17.720 and ludicrous. I'm talking about Paul's diary entries dating back 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.199 to when he was ten years old. What world do 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:22.160 we live in when this is allowed to be admitted. 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.919 They also submitted lyrics to a song that Paul co 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:29.640 wrote with his fellow band member, and a childhood comic 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:35.840 drawing of a teenage mutant Ninja Turtle holding a sword. Wow, 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:40.000 I mean, this is as bad as the West Memphis 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.560 three in that sense, And this was brought into the 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:46.520 trial as supposed proof that he was a violent guy, 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:51.080 even though Paul had no history whatsoever. A violence or 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:56.720 any run ins at all with the law. Here's the thing, obviously, 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.800 whoever was involved in this violent struggle for Catherine's life 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.680 which she ripped out the hair of her attacker and 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:06.560 clawed him as well, one would say, well, Paul must 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.119 have been covered in scratches or at least had blood 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:11.520 on him, or you know, maybe even a significant amount 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:12.840 of blood. But he didn't. 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:15.600 First of all, that testimony came out at trial by 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.440 the forensic experts called by the police that the person 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.040 would be covered in blood. What didn't come out at 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.760 trial was the cleanup that took place. There was crystal 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:29.240 violet all in the tub, so the perpetrator not only 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:31.840 was covered in blood, but cleaned up in that apartment 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.280 before they left. We know from the video footage that 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:39.200 his Internet timestamped proven to be accurate, that David Hahn 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:43.400 walked out of that apartment thirteen minutes after the homicide occurred. 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:47.600 What the prosecutor did, which was just incredibly inappropriate in 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:50.360 my opinion and rises to the level of the misconduct, 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:55.600 is then argue to the jury inclosing knowingly untrue assertions 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.040 that David Hahn left the apartment at six o'clock before 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.240 the homicide occurred, leaving this window of forty minutes for 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:04.880 Paul Cortes to have gone in and committed a homicide 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:05.639 that he didn't commit. 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:07.800 That's how this conviction happened. 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.200 So, Tony Marie, if you had been able to represent 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:13.720 Paul at the original trial, and I know you probably 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:15.280 wish you could go back in time and do that, 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:17.400 how would things have gone differently? 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:20.520 I think if you play the video and watch it 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:24.840 and see someone else leaving the scene after the homicide, 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.359 that is key, and you show that to the jury, 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:34.240 that would have changed the day. The forensic evidence, for instance, 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:38.399 there were hairs found in Catherine's hand, hairs with the 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:42.760 roots attached. The only tests that were done on those 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.440 hairs were by the prosecution comparing it to Paul. 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.680 He's excluded. Why not test those hairs? 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:52.680 Why not go forward with that type of investigation. It's 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.760 a homicide, Go to the scene, speak to the witnesses. 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.200 The failings are just monumental. 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:01.800 I did never expected that I would be convicted. I 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:05.200 just believe that the truth would prevail, and that's why 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:07.480 I took the stand and I tried to be as 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:12.520 forthcoming as I could understand. I completely expected that they 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:15.000 would have quit me because they would know that what 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:16.040 I was saying was the truth. 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.880 So here we have it. No evidence presented by the defense, 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:26.320 phony evidence presented by the prosecutors, and the results are 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.280 a foregone conclusion. And now the worst moment comes. You 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:32.840 get convicted, right then you get taken away. So tell 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:36.520 us about that, I mean from Rikers, I guess it 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:38.640 couldn't get worse, could it. 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:42.000 It did, and at a certain points throughout this incarceration 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.679 it has. When I heard the guilty verdict, it was 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.480 just a complete shock to me. I hadn't expected this 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:51.919 life that I've been living for the past sixteen years 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:55.360 as an innocent man in prison, and all the terrible 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:59.160 things I've witnessed throughout these sixteen years, all the tragedies. 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:18.080 It was definitely the hardest time of my life. I 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:21.080 went to my first prison, which was all burned correctional facility, 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:25.000 which is a disciplinary jail. It's probably one of the 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:29.240 most violent prisons at the time, multiple stabbings every day, 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:34.679 people meeting each other off gang violence. So I'm just 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:37.520 trying to stay safe, trying to write the case during 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:40.480 that time. I mean with everything that's gone on. There 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:43.879 are definitely waves even today of me just being so 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:48.159 crazy mad at everything about life, about how unfair everything is. 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.120 But you know, that just makes a person bitter, and 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.359 we just have to continue in the best way we 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:57.439 can to be good people and help people in the 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:00.320 situations that we're in. And that's what I've been trying 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:04.159 to do. I've always saw this as a test, and 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:06.680 if I can pass this test, and if I can 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:09.240 come out of this as a better person, not just someone 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:12.240 who survived this, but someone who's overcome and zone who 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:16.480 has contributed throughout this ordeal to try to help others 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:20.240 who have been even less fortunate than I. I guess 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:22.159 I hold on to the fact that there are people 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:25.480 like Tony Marie, people like yourself, people like my family 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:29.359 and my friends who know that I am innocent and 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:32.000 they believe in my innocence and they haven't and they 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:35.280 don't give up on me. And knowing that has been 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:38.680 something that has really given me hope throughout all of this, 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:41.840 and it has made me the person that I am. 0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:45.400 Tony Marie, how did this case first land on your 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:47.960 desk and what was it about this that made you 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:51.760 decide to devote yourself pro bono, by the way, for 0:22:52.000 --> 0:22:54.640 years to this man, Paul Cortes. 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:59.640 Well, I was contacted by some of Paul's ardent supporters 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:04.040 in the fall of twenty fifteen, and I ordered the file. 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:05.360 And when I opened it up in. 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:09.160 January of two sixteenth, I did what any thinking lawyer 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:11.919 might do. I put the video in. And when I 0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:15.520 put the video in and I saw David Hahn leaving 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:19.280