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Speaker 1: In two thousand and five, Paul Cortes was pursuing his

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Speaker 1: theatrical and musical career in New York City while intermittently

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Speaker 1: dating twenty one year old Katherine Woods, an aspiring dancer

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Speaker 1: from Columbus, Ohio. Catherine also allowed her ex boyfriend David Hahn,

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Speaker 1: who struggled financially and with drug addiction, to stay in

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Speaker 1: her Manhattan apartment until he got back on his feet.

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Speaker 1: On November twenty seventh, two thousand and five, Catherine was

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Speaker 1: brutally stabbed to death in her apartment, with police and

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Speaker 1: ear witnesses placing the time of the crime between six

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Speaker 1: twenty and six twenty five pm. Hawn called nine one

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Speaker 1: one at six point fifty pm and named Paul Cortes

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Speaker 1: as the murderer when the police arrived. When police found

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Speaker 1: one of Paul's fingerprints that they mistakenly believed was impressed

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Speaker 1: in blood rather than an old print that had been

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Speaker 1: covered by blood, Paul became the prime suspect, even though

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Speaker 1: surveillance footage in front of Catherine's building only placed David

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Speaker 1: Haun at the seat. Paul was arrested and charged with

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Speaker 1: her murder. With Paul's defense failing to question this fingerprint

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Speaker 1: or present key exculpatory evidence, including the surveillance footage as

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Speaker 1: well as the attacker's DNA from the victim's fingernails and hands.

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Speaker 1: Paul was convicted and sentenced to twenty five to life. Well,

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Speaker 1: now check in with Paul and his attorney Tony Marie

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Speaker 1: Angeli to see where his case stands. This is wrongful Conviction.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. Today's case is going to

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Speaker 1: blow your mind. You know, I thought I had seen

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Speaker 1: everything until I heard about the case of Paul Cortes.

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Speaker 1: This case it has racism, it has incompetence on official levels,

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Speaker 1: it has junk science, but it also has attorneys representing

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Speaker 1: the defendant who themselves were committing numerous crimes before, during,

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Speaker 1: and probably after the trial. So yeah, sorry, I'm a

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Speaker 1: little worked up today, but you will be too by

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Speaker 1: the time you finished hearing this episode. This is Wrongful

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Speaker 1: Conviction Behind bars, where today's guest is, of course, Paul Cortes.

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Speaker 1: And Paul. I'm really sorry you're here because of the circumstances,

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Speaker 1: but I'm really happy to have you on the air.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Jason. I'm just very grateful for you to

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Speaker 2: have me on the show and to be able to

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Speaker 2: finally get my story out.

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Speaker 1: There and with us today is Tony Marie Angelie of

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Speaker 1: the Angelie Law Firm. I hope you're never in trouble,

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Speaker 1: but if you are, you should track her down because

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Speaker 1: she's a pitbull, and I mean, then the best way,

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Speaker 1: Tony Marie. I'm glad you're here, thank.

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Speaker 3: You, and I am so happy to be here.

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Speaker 1: So, Paul, you came from a poor neighborhood in the Bronx, right,

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Speaker 1: What was your childhood like?

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Speaker 2: Well, I was just like any normal kid in the Bronx,

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Speaker 2: coming from a Puerto Rican family. My mom raised us

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Speaker 2: three kids. My father left when I was younger, and

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Speaker 2: my mom remarried later on. My mom always pushed academics

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Speaker 2: and doing well in school, so I think it was

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Speaker 2: around twelve I had tested into private schools and I

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Speaker 2: started going to private schools Manhattan for junior high and

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Speaker 2: then high school. During that time, I was into sports,

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Speaker 2: I was in the theater, I was in the arts.

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Speaker 2: I auditioned all of these colleges and I eventually got

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Speaker 2: into Boston University and I earned my bachelor's in fine arts.

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Speaker 2: I was the first in my family to go to

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Speaker 2: college and to graduate. I was in two thousand and

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Speaker 2: three when I graduated, and after that, I came back

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Speaker 2: to New York to pursue a life in the arts,

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Speaker 2: and I was very hopeful at that time for accomplishing

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Speaker 2: my dream.

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Speaker 1: So now you're auditioning for rent, making your way in

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Speaker 1: the city that never sleeps, coming from a background that

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Speaker 1: normally most people don't managed to make it to anything

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Speaker 1: like their dreams. So what was happening back then? Take

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Speaker 1: us back to two thousand and three.

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Speaker 2: I had signed with the talent agency and I was

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Speaker 2: very excited about that. I went on several auditions and

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Speaker 2: I was also doing music on the side as well.

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Speaker 2: It was really fun. I was living life to the

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Speaker 2: fullest at that time.

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Speaker 1: Now here we go to December two thousand and five.

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Speaker 1: You are working as a physical trainer and a yoga instructor,

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Speaker 1: doing your auditions, completing your solo musical album. And the

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Speaker 1: person at the center of this was your on again,

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Speaker 1: off again girlfriend. And that woman who was the victim

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Speaker 1: in this case is a woman named Katherine Woods.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katherine was twenty one at a time, and she

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Speaker 2: was a really special person and I really cared for her,

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Speaker 2: and she had a great relationship. And like any relationships,

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Speaker 2: there are ups and downs, but I always cared for her.

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Speaker 1: So she was taking voice and dance lessons, working part

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Speaker 1: time jobs at a hair salon, was seeing several different men,

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Speaker 1: that's her choice, you know, No judgment here, and she

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Speaker 1: worked as a stripper at night under the alias of Ava.

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Speaker 1: She had told her parents and friends that she was

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Speaker 1: dancing in an off Broadway show as a character named Ava.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, again, no judgment here, but it does

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Speaker 1: present a complex picture of a person. Then, as fate

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Speaker 1: would have it, when she was visiting her family in Columbus, Ohio,

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Speaker 1: she met a troubled guy named David Hahn. Now David

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Speaker 1: was a guy who had grown up in foster homes

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Speaker 1: in Columbus and dropped out of high school. At the

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Speaker 1: time he met Catherine, he was unemployed and attempting to

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Speaker 1: make it as a rapper, and not too long after

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Speaker 1: they met he moved to New York to live with her.

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Speaker 1: He struggled financially and bounced around, couldn't hold the job,

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Speaker 1: and she paid most of his bills. But weeks before

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Speaker 1: the murder, Catherine had asked David to move out, but

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Speaker 1: he struggled with drug so she had recently allowed him

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Speaker 1: to move back in and sleep on the couch. Now

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Speaker 1: can you sort of fill in the blanks here, Paul, Well.

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Speaker 2: She was definitely trying to get him out of the apartment,

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Speaker 2: and several times where she had asked him to and

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Speaker 2: was successful, he would call her depressed and threatening to

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Speaker 2: kill himself. And it was kind of a vo little situation.

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Speaker 2: She always said that he's like family and that she

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Speaker 2: really cares about him. She kept a lot of it

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Speaker 2: to herself. She was very private in that sense.

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Speaker 1: And then in April two thousand and five, Catherine was

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Speaker 1: drugged at one of the strip clubs that she worked at.

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Speaker 1: What a nightmare, Paul. Can you tell us what happened

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Speaker 1: with that.

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Speaker 2: She called me at the club and she asked for help,

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Speaker 2: and I hurried down. She was really messed up. She

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Speaker 2: could hardly walk, and she didn't want to go back

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Speaker 2: to her apartment, so I just brought her to a

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Speaker 2: hotel and set her up there and got her to

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Speaker 2: go to the hospital because she was worried that she

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Speaker 2: might have gotten raped at that time, so being concerned

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Speaker 2: about it all I went back and called her parents.

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Speaker 2: I thought maybe her parents could talk to her and

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Speaker 2: help her out, But she got upset at me because

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Speaker 2: that night life was something that she didn't discuss with

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Speaker 2: her family.

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Speaker 1: And while I think that any reasonable person who cared

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Speaker 1: about somebody as you did might do the same thing

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Speaker 1: if they were in your shoes, this caused a real

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Speaker 1: rift between you two, and when questioned by her father

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Speaker 1: about what you had told him, Catherine said that you

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Speaker 1: were crazy, that she was not working as a strip

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Speaker 1: or involved in anything dangerous. Her dad believed her, and

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Speaker 1: she then broke up with you, although several weeks later

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Speaker 1: you both reconciled and got back together. So sometime after this,

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Speaker 1: you went to Catherine Tobn happened to meet David. Now

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Speaker 1: the two of you only met this one time, but

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Speaker 1: David had been unaware of your and Catherin's relationship, and

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Speaker 1: when he found out, he became very upset, feeling misled.

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Speaker 1: And so this now brings us to November twenty seven,

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Speaker 1: two thousand and five, when miss Wood was found stabbed

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Speaker 1: to death in her Upper East Side apartment. According to

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Speaker 1: police reports and ear witness testimony, the attack happened in

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Speaker 1: two parts, first around six pm and then finally around

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Speaker 1: six twenty three pm with four count of four witnesses

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Speaker 1: hearing Catherine screaming and crying. Now, David had initially told

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Speaker 1: police that he left the apartment twenty minutes before he

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Speaker 1: called nine one one at six fifty pm that evening,

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Speaker 1: which would have placed him within the apartment during that

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Speaker 1: exact timeframe described by the witnesses, and when police arrived

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Speaker 1: on the scene, David immediately named Paul as the killer,

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Speaker 1: holding up a CD of Paul's music. I mean, it's unreal, Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: Tony Marie, tell us about the investigation and what was

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Speaker 1: it that shifted the focus to Paul and away from David,

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Speaker 1: who would have seemed like the obvious suspect.

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Speaker 4: Well, initially law enforcement had identified David Hahn as the perpetrator.

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Speaker 3: Everything that he.

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Speaker 4: Said at the time, Looking back now with twenty twenty hindsight,

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Speaker 4: it was deceptive, it was inaccurate, and it showed that

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Speaker 4: he was a perpetrator. But what happened was law enforcement

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Speaker 4: found this bloody fingerprint which they called it, which it

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Speaker 4: actually isn't in the apartment, and the focus switched to Paul.

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Speaker 1: Right, and this fingerprint plays such an important role throughout

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Speaker 1: this whole story. So investigators found this fingerprint, but it

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Speaker 1: didn't match David Haunt, and Paul becomes the prime suspect.

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Speaker 1: But this fingerprint is actually a latent fingerprint and not

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Speaker 1: a patent fingerprint, which is what it was incorrectly believed

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Speaker 1: to be. Can you break this down for us real quick.

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Speaker 4: Well, anytime we touch a surface, we can leave a fingerprint,

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Speaker 4: and that could be from our sweat or if something

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Speaker 4: was on our hands, So you would leave a print

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Speaker 4: and it would not be made from another substance that

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Speaker 4: went on top of So if you leave a print

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Speaker 4: and then a substance goes on top, that's latent.

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Speaker 3: And if the print is made of the substance.

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Speaker 4: Like they argued at trial, they argued that the fingerprint

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Speaker 4: was peyton made of blood, which it is not.

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Speaker 3: It was latent, preexisting exactly.

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Speaker 1: So the fingerprints already there and then the blood ends

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Speaker 1: up on top of it. And this makes sense that

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Speaker 1: Paul's fingerprints were there, as he and Catherine had been

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Speaker 1: in a relationship and he'd been to her home many

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Speaker 1: many times. So was there any other evidence at all

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Speaker 1: that pointed to Paul.

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Speaker 4: The case against Paul was really founded on two or

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Speaker 4: three pieces of evidence, so they had their team in

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Speaker 4: there for days documenting this very bloody crime scene. It

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Speaker 4: was a big fight in there, and that led to

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Speaker 4: this fingerprint that was on the wall. The other piece

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Speaker 4: of evidence was cell phone records, Paul's cell phone records,

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Speaker 4: Catherine's cell phone records, and David Han's cell phone records,

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Speaker 4: and the prosecute and the police built a theory that

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Speaker 4: Paul was texting and leaving these messages, was this jilted lover,

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Speaker 4: and that she was rejecting him. He was full of

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Speaker 4: rage and killed this girl. It's not actually supported by

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Speaker 4: any of the evidence, but that was their theory.

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Speaker 1: Here's where things started spinning out of control in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: which is that immediately after the murder, the police leaked

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Speaker 1: erroneous information, a false information called what You went to

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Speaker 1: the media relating to the investigation, and they ate it up.

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Speaker 1: TV news and newspapers were filled with stories with this

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Speaker 1: false narrative of a scary, alleged Puerto Rican predator from

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Speaker 1: the Bronx taking the life of this sweet, innocent girl

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Speaker 1: from the Midwest, and so the media made it about race,

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Speaker 1: and one of the stories even cited anonymous police sources

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Speaker 1: with reports of an alleged confession letter alleged existence of

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Speaker 1: a surveillance video showing Paul leaving the crime scene, which,

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Speaker 1: of course all of it was totally false. In fact, fact,

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Speaker 1: the exact opposite was true.

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Speaker 2: There was a video that proves my innocence, a video

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Speaker 2: that shows their original suspect leaving the crime scene thirteen

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Speaker 2: minutes after the commission of the crime. And I'm nowhere

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Speaker 2: on this video at all, and I'm nowhere on any videos.

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Speaker 2: And the cops and the DA's office, they were leaking

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Speaker 2: information to the media saying, oh, he was on camera

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Speaker 2: around the time of the crime and all of this,

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Speaker 2: But they had the video that showed their original suspect

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Speaker 2: entering into this scene and coming out thirteen minutes after

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Speaker 2: the crime. It's just horrendous.

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Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company.

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Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making

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Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and

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Speaker 1: in the communities where we work and live. In light

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Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance and

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Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform.

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Speaker 1: The AIG pro Bono program provides free legal services and

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Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. While Paul awaited

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Speaker 1: trial at Riker's Island, his family pulled together their life

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Speaker 1: savings to retain Dawn Florio and her colleague Laura Miranda

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Speaker 1: to represent Paul at trial. Now, unfortunately, that's not even

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Speaker 1: a strong enough word. Unbeknownst to Paul and his family, Florio,

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Speaker 1: while she was representing Paul, she was simultaneously under indictment

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Speaker 1: by the same prosecutor's office for smuggling drugs into a

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Speaker 1: client at Rikers Island. The case against Florio received repeated

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Speaker 1: adjournments and the court bile remained sealed to this day.

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Speaker 1: But all of this came to light as the trial

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Speaker 1: was starting and the trial judge, Judge Berkman, did not

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Speaker 1: do a proper conflict inquiry which is called Gomberg inquiry,

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Speaker 1: basically telling Paul that they didn't see how it would

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Speaker 1: be a problem and inferred he would have to go

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Speaker 1: to trial without counsel if he pursued the matter further

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Speaker 1: unreal so he would have had to represent himself. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's nuts. Okay, So, Paul, you'd been waiting for

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Speaker 1: eighteen months at Riker's Island, a notoriously dangerous, chaotic, and

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Speaker 1: scary place, and this is how your trial was starting.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what was that like?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I basically my lawyers didn't show up for the

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Speaker 2: first three days of trial, and it was just a

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Speaker 2: mess from the beginning. They seemed ill prepared.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think some people in our audience may well

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Speaker 1: say themselves, Wait a minute, I thought I heard him

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Speaker 1: say that his attorneys didn't show up for the first

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Speaker 1: three days of trial. But that can't be true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, they didn't show up. I didn't know

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Speaker 2: where they were.

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Speaker 1: And it's so bad that one of your attorneys was

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Speaker 1: held to contempt of court and actually find one thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars for not showing up. And when they they did

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Speaker 1: show up, they didn't even pretend to make an effort

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Speaker 1: to represent you. So, Tony, Marie, the two defense attorneys,

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Speaker 1: Florio and Miranda, can you talk about the myriad errors

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Speaker 1: that they made during the trial.

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Speaker 4: Well, they didn't hire any experts, and they didn't develop

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Speaker 4: any of this evidence. They didn't go to the scene,

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Speaker 4: they didn't speak to the witnesses. The one thing they

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Speaker 4: did do was they contacted a fingerprint expert. I spoke

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Speaker 4: to that expert. I got an affid David from him.

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Speaker 4: What is chilling is that expert actually told the defense

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Speaker 4: that there was a problem with the fingerprint, it looked

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Speaker 4: like it was latent, and they should have the sheet

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Speaker 4: rock examined and test the medium. So the one direction

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Speaker 4: they got they were actually given information as to how

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Speaker 4: to disprove this by an expert. They didn't call the expert.

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Speaker 4: They didn't do it.

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Speaker 1: And we haven't even touched on one of the biggest

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Speaker 1: things here, which is the surveillance video that Paul mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: and this is it just blows my mind. On the video,

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Speaker 1: you can clearly see David Hahn leaving the apartment at

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Speaker 1: six point thirty seven, and there's the time stamp right

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Speaker 1: on the video, and that's just thirteen fourteen minutes after

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Speaker 1: this brutal murder took place at six twenty three. But

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Speaker 1: the defense attorneys didn't show this to the jury because

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Speaker 1: it turns out that while they had the video, they

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Speaker 1: didn't know this was there because they hadn't even bothered

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Speaker 1: to watch the whole video.

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Speaker 4: The defense didn't bring it to light, and the prosecutor

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Speaker 4: went forward and argued and presented evidence that we now

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Speaker 4: know affirmatively was untrue, and we now know affirmatively he

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Speaker 4: knew at the time. So it is a profound injustice

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Speaker 4: and failing of all the pieces of our system that

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Speaker 4: we rely on.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So the state presented mostly circumstance evidence, like the

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Speaker 1: high volume of calls you mentioned, and the only physical

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Speaker 1: evidence presented was the latent fingerprint, which we've talked about.

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Speaker 1: But the state also presented what they described as evidence

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Speaker 1: but can only really be described as somewhere between ridiculous

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Speaker 1: and ludicrous. I'm talking about Paul's diary entries dating back

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Speaker 1: to when he was ten years old. What world do

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Speaker 1: we live in when this is allowed to be admitted.

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Speaker 1: They also submitted lyrics to a song that Paul co

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Speaker 1: wrote with his fellow band member, and a childhood comic

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Speaker 1: drawing of a teenage mutant Ninja Turtle holding a sword. Wow,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is as bad as the West Memphis

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Speaker 1: three in that sense, And this was brought into the

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Speaker 1: trial as supposed proof that he was a violent guy,

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Speaker 1: even though Paul had no history whatsoever. A violence or

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Speaker 1: any run ins at all with the law. Here's the thing, obviously,

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Speaker 1: whoever was involved in this violent struggle for Catherine's life

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Speaker 1: which she ripped out the hair of her attacker and

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Speaker 1: clawed him as well, one would say, well, Paul must

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Speaker 1: have been covered in scratches or at least had blood

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Speaker 1: on him, or you know, maybe even a significant amount

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Speaker 1: of blood. But he didn't.

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Speaker 4: First of all, that testimony came out at trial by

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Speaker 4: the forensic experts called by the police that the person

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Speaker 4: would be covered in blood. What didn't come out at

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Speaker 4: trial was the cleanup that took place. There was crystal

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Speaker 4: violet all in the tub, so the perpetrator not only

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Speaker 4: was covered in blood, but cleaned up in that apartment

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Speaker 4: before they left. We know from the video footage that

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Speaker 4: his Internet timestamped proven to be accurate, that David Hahn

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Speaker 4: walked out of that apartment thirteen minutes after the homicide occurred.

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Speaker 4: What the prosecutor did, which was just incredibly inappropriate in

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Speaker 4: my opinion and rises to the level of the misconduct,

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Speaker 4: is then argue to the jury inclosing knowingly untrue assertions

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Speaker 4: that David Hahn left the apartment at six o'clock before

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Speaker 4: the homicide occurred, leaving this window of forty minutes for

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Speaker 4: Paul Cortes to have gone in and committed a homicide

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Speaker 4: that he didn't commit.

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Speaker 3: That's how this conviction happened.

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Speaker 1: So, Tony Marie, if you had been able to represent

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Speaker 1: Paul at the original trial, and I know you probably

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Speaker 1: wish you could go back in time and do that,

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Speaker 1: how would things have gone differently?

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Speaker 4: I think if you play the video and watch it

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Speaker 4: and see someone else leaving the scene after the homicide,

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Speaker 4: that is key, and you show that to the jury,

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Speaker 4: that would have changed the day. The forensic evidence, for instance,

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Speaker 4: there were hairs found in Catherine's hand, hairs with the

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Speaker 4: roots attached. The only tests that were done on those

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Speaker 4: hairs were by the prosecution comparing it to Paul.

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Speaker 3: He's excluded. Why not test those hairs?

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Speaker 4: Why not go forward with that type of investigation. It's

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Speaker 4: a homicide, Go to the scene, speak to the witnesses.

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Speaker 4: The failings are just monumental.

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Speaker 2: I did never expected that I would be convicted. I

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Speaker 2: just believe that the truth would prevail, and that's why

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Speaker 2: I took the stand and I tried to be as

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Speaker 2: forthcoming as I could understand. I completely expected that they

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Speaker 2: would have quit me because they would know that what

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Speaker 2: I was saying was the truth.

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Speaker 1: So here we have it. No evidence presented by the defense,

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Speaker 1: phony evidence presented by the prosecutors, and the results are

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Speaker 1: a foregone conclusion. And now the worst moment comes. You

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Speaker 1: get convicted, right then you get taken away. So tell

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Speaker 1: us about that, I mean from Rikers, I guess it

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Speaker 1: couldn't get worse, could it.

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Speaker 2: It did, and at a certain points throughout this incarceration

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Speaker 2: it has. When I heard the guilty verdict, it was

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Speaker 2: just a complete shock to me. I hadn't expected this

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Speaker 2: life that I've been living for the past sixteen years

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Speaker 2: as an innocent man in prison, and all the terrible

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Speaker 2: things I've witnessed throughout these sixteen years, all the tragedies.

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Speaker 2: It was definitely the hardest time of my life. I

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Speaker 2: went to my first prison, which was all burned correctional facility,

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Speaker 2: which is a disciplinary jail. It's probably one of the

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Speaker 2: most violent prisons at the time, multiple stabbings every day,

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Speaker 2: people meeting each other off gang violence. So I'm just

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Speaker 2: trying to stay safe, trying to write the case during

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Speaker 2: that time. I mean with everything that's gone on. There

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Speaker 2: are definitely waves even today of me just being so

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Speaker 2: crazy mad at everything about life, about how unfair everything is.

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Speaker 2: But you know, that just makes a person bitter, and

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Speaker 2: we just have to continue in the best way we

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Speaker 2: can to be good people and help people in the

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Speaker 2: situations that we're in. And that's what I've been trying

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Speaker 2: to do. I've always saw this as a test, and

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Speaker 2: if I can pass this test, and if I can

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Speaker 2: come out of this as a better person, not just someone

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Speaker 2: who survived this, but someone who's overcome and zone who

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Speaker 2: has contributed throughout this ordeal to try to help others

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Speaker 2: who have been even less fortunate than I. I guess

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Speaker 2: I hold on to the fact that there are people

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Speaker 2: like Tony Marie, people like yourself, people like my family

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Speaker 2: and my friends who know that I am innocent and

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Speaker 2: they believe in my innocence and they haven't and they

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Speaker 2: don't give up on me. And knowing that has been

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Speaker 2: something that has really given me hope throughout all of this,

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Speaker 2: and it has made me the person that I am.

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Speaker 1: Tony Marie, how did this case first land on your

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Speaker 1: desk and what was it about this that made you

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Speaker 1: decide to devote yourself pro bono, by the way, for

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Speaker 1: years to this man, Paul Cortes.

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Speaker 4: Well, I was contacted by some of Paul's ardent supporters

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Speaker 4: in the fall of twenty fifteen, and I ordered the file.

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Speaker 3: And when I opened it up in.

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Speaker 4: January of two sixteenth, I did what any thinking lawyer

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Speaker 4: might do. I put the video in. And when I

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Speaker 4: put the video in and I saw David Hahn leaving

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Speaker 4: after that homicide had occurred, I couldn't but get involved.

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Speaker 4: Upon seeing that, I worked up the case. I contacted,

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Speaker 4: you know, eleven different experts on crime scenes and the

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Speaker 4: cell phone records, the cell site records which show where

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Speaker 4: Paul is, which is actually not at the apartment, went

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Speaker 4: through every slip of paper in this case, and what

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Speaker 4: came over and over and over again was more and

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Speaker 4: more and more information showing how innocent he is. And honestly,

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Speaker 4: it was all there all along. It was in the file.

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Speaker 1: So these lawyers bad enough not showing up, but then

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Speaker 1: not introducing the evidence that was in their files and

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Speaker 1: then claiming later on that they didn't even know that

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Speaker 1: it was there. The real consequence of that is that

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Speaker 1: now you can't introduce that evidence as new evidence because

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Speaker 1: it was there the whole time. So now Paul is

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Speaker 1: stuck with the much more difficult legally speaking task of

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Speaker 1: proving ineffective assistance of counsel. Although in this case it

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Speaker 1: seems like that should be open and shut. One would

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Speaker 1: think that this should be pretty straightforward when we look

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Speaker 1: at all the malfeasance and all the incompetents and everything else,

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Speaker 1: and the evidence itself. So how has it unblound thus far?

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Speaker 1: In terms of the post conviction litigation, there.

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Speaker 4: Was appeals of the conviction itself and some rulings that

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Speaker 4: suggested that there should be a four forty, which in

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Speaker 4: New York is where you'd go back and say, hey,

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Speaker 4: we want to put everything on the record and fix this.

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Speaker 4: There's some issues the failings of the defense in failing

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Speaker 4: to just do basic investigation to speak to the witnesses.

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Speaker 4: I did do that motion, and stunningly it was denied.

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Speaker 4: But now it's in front of a federal judge, Judge Freeman,

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Speaker 4: in New York, and it's been a long way. Paul

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Speaker 4: has been very unlucky in many ways. As our emotion

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Speaker 4: was submitted prior to COVID, so there's been a halt there,

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Speaker 4: but we're hopeful, and as a lawyer, I have to

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Speaker 4: believe that when you put this type of evidence in

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00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 4: front of a judge and show this kind of injustice,

437
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 4: that the judge is going to correct it. I do

438
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 4: believe that, however you slice it, this is in effective

439
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 4: assistance of counsel and this is actual innocence, and we

440
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 4: should be successful in federal court. And I'm relying on

441
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 4: the judge to do the right thing, order a hearing,

442
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 4: dismiss this, order a new trial. It's so clear that

443
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 4: he did not commit this crime.

444
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: And so, Paul, for the people who are listening right

445
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 1: now and feeling this mixture the same one that I

446
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 1: feel of anger and just rage at the wrongdoing in

447
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: this case and the desire to help to do something

448
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: to move this forward, what would you like them to do?

449
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 1: Is there a website you want people to go to,

450
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 1: or is there a change dot org petition or anything

451
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: like that.

452
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is a change dot org petition. One of

453
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 2: them is a petition for clemency. And then the other

454
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:18,400
Speaker 2: thing is the website. It's www dot Freepaulcortes dot com

455
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 2: and people can visit that site to see everything more

456
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 2: in detail and everything about the case.

457
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to have all of the links in

458
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: the bio in the episode, So please wherever you are,

459
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: unless you're driving, in which case wait till you stop,

460
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 1: but go click on those links because your voice matters

461
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: and you can help us, help Paul and bring him

462
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 1: home where he belongs.

463
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 2: I would also suggest too, that if you are a

464
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: New Yorker, to contact your state assembly member, your state

465
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 2: senator in your district and let them know how you

466
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 2: feel and have them try to advocate as well. I've

467
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 2: always found that these state senators and state assemblymen are

468
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 2: more receptive than you would think, and it's a lot

469
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 2: easier for them to reach the ear of the governor

470
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 2: than it is for us just normal people.

471
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 1: Oh that's a very good suggestion. And Paul, we have

472
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 1: a tradition here of closing the show in a particularly

473
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: type of way. It's my favorite part of the show,

474
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: and I think that's probably true for most of our audience.

475
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: It's called closing arguments. First of all, I thank you

476
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: again for being here and sharing your story. I know

477
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: it's not easy, and just for being the beacon of

478
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: light that you are. And then what happens is I

479
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,479
Speaker 1: turn my microphone off and leave yours on, and then

480
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: I'll just kick back in my chair with my headphones

481
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: on and just listen for any other thoughts that you

482
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 1: want to share. Of course, as we always do, we're

483
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: going to save Paul for last, because we're here for you, Paul.

484
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: But first I want to turn over to you, Tony,

485
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: for any thoughts you want to share that we haven't

486
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: already covered.

487
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 4: Well, I just want to say something about Paul. I

488
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,120
Speaker 4: just want to say what an inspiring person he is.

489
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 4: Is that he has kept the attitude and the faith

490
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 4: and that I think a lot of that comes from

491
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 4: the kind of person he is, but also from the

492
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 4: support he gets. So I'm just grateful the support of

493
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 4: this podcast of you, Jason, and would encourage.

494
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 3: People to continue to give that support because it makes

495
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 3: a difference, and I'm hoping that it will also perhaps

496
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 3: put additional pressure forth in order to set him free

497
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 3: as he should be.

498
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: And now all over to you.

499
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 2: I have been incarcerated for sixteen years for crimut and

500
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 2: commit I have been fighting since day one to prove

501
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 2: my innocence to the court system. I haven't given up,

502
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 2: and it is a terrible injustice not only for me

503
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 2: and my family, but it's also been a terrible injustice

504
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 2: for Catherine and for her family. I'm so grateful that

505
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: I have people in my life that do care about

506
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: me and that are willing to spend so much time

507
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: and energy and effort and heartache and tears and pain

508
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 2: to support me and continue to fight with me for justice.

509
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 2: And maybe there's someone listening out there, someone who's dealing

510
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 2: with an injustice, someone who's dealing with an addiction and loneliness,

511
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 2: some kind of isolation. My message to you is just

512
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: don't give up, continue to fight, continue to believe. Just

513
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 2: know there are people who care about you. There is

514
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 2: a better way than what you're living through right now.

515
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: Just keep continuing on. I guess that is my message

516
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 2: for everyone. I firmly believe that justice will be served

517
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: and I will be exonerated one day. I don't know

518
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 2: when that day is going to be, but keep praying

519
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 2: for it to happen soon. I just thank you. I

520
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 2: thank everyone that the Wrongful Conviction podcast will work behind

521
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 2: the scenes, and especially my friends, my family, and Tony Murrie,

522
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: my amazing lawyer who is so bright and intelligent and

523
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 2: really in my champion.

524
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd

525
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: like to thank our production team Connor Hall, Justin Golden,

526
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 1: Jeff Cleiburn, and Kevin Wardis with research by Lyla Robinson.

527
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: The music in this production was supplied by three time

528
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us

529
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast,

530
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: and on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at

531
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: Lava for Good. On all three platforms, you can also

532
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: follow me on both TikTok and Instagram at It's Jason Flam.

533
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction is the production of Lava for Good podcast

534
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: and association with Signal Company Number one