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Speaker 1: This is Red Pilled America. Hey guys, before we start

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Speaker 1: the show, if you're not a red Pilled America dot

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Speaker 1: com subscriber, what are you waiting for? We need your support.

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Speaker 1: We don't have the government funding us like NPR. All

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Speaker 1: the top menu.

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Speaker 2: Support a show devoted to the truth and that shares

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Speaker 2: your values. Redpilled America dot com.

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Speaker 1: This episode was originally broadcast on December sixth, twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Global warming has been politicized since Al Gore's two thousand

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Speaker 1: and six documentary and Inconvenient Truth.

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Speaker 3: Within the decade, there will be no more snows of Kilimanjarle.

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Speaker 1: A mere two years after the film's launch. The issue

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Speaker 1: is so hot Canada. Obama was running on his ability

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Speaker 1: to change sea levels.

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Speaker 4: This was the moment when the rise of the ulceans

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Speaker 4: be done? Who on our planet?

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Speaker 5: The devil Hill?

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Speaker 1: In his run for the White House, Donald Trump would

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Speaker 1: make his own remarks about climate change.

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Speaker 6: A lot of it's a hoax. It's a hoax. I mean,

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Speaker 6: it's some money making industry.

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Speaker 7: Okay, it's a hoax.

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Speaker 1: The far left media would eventually lock in on Trump's

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Speaker 1: hoax comment, President Trump believes climate change is a hoax?

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Speaker 1: Yes or no?

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Speaker 3: Does the President believe that climate.

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Speaker 7: Change is real?

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Speaker 1: Does the President believe today that climate change is a hoax?

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Speaker 8: Shouldn't you be able to tell the American people whether

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Speaker 8: or not the President still believes the climate change.

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Speaker 7: Is a hoax?

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Speaker 1: What does the president actually believe climate change?

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Speaker 8: Does he still believe it's a hoax?

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Speaker 1: Obama thinks he's the god Poseidon, and the media is silent.

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Speaker 1: Trump thinks some global warming claims are deceptive. The media pounces.

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Speaker 1: But Trump's statement did raise a question that the media

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Speaker 1: would never probe, namely, why do so many people think

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Speaker 1: global warming is a hoax? I'm Patrick CARELCI.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Adrianna Portez.

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Speaker 1: And this is Red Pilled America, a storytelling show.

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Speaker 2: This is not another talk show covering the day's news.

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Speaker 2: We are all about telling stories.

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Speaker 1: Stories. Hollywood doesn't want you to hear stories.

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Speaker 2: The media mocks stories about everyday Americans that the globalists ignore.

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Speaker 1: You could think of Red Pilled America as audio documentaries,

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Speaker 1: and we promise only one thing of the truth. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to red pilled America. Global warming is one of those topics,

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Speaker 1: like abortion and gun control, that has become hopelessly politicized.

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Speaker 1: The left has an almost religious belief in it, and

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Speaker 1: when anyone shows skepticism towards even the most extreme claims,

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Speaker 1: the media labels the person a conspiracy theorist, or worse,

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Speaker 1: a science denier. When Donald Trump said some of global

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Speaker 1: warming was a hoax, the media was incurious as to

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Speaker 1: why you would say such a thing. What could you

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Speaker 1: have possibly meant To find the answer, We're going to

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Speaker 1: hear the story of how a small group of climate

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Speaker 1: change skeptics battled the global warming establishment and in the

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Speaker 1: process changed the course of the world's economy.

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Speaker 4: You can't exclude the possibility that someone from cru was

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Speaker 4: the hacker.

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Speaker 9: We were never given anti information that corroborated or break in.

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Speaker 10: He was a lone wolf partisan hacker, and I did

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Speaker 10: you know, I shared it with anti terrorist squad.

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Speaker 3: That it probably was an insider. That's about as specific

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Speaker 3: as I can get.

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Speaker 1: On a cold December night in two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 1: Steve McIntyre made his way to a restaurant in downtown

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Speaker 1: San Francisco, A sixty year old, partly balding, gray bearded

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Speaker 1: Canadian Steve couldn't have known that he was about to

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Speaker 1: join the team that would force the biggest science heist

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Speaker 1: in history. Visiting the Bay Area for a climate conference,

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Speaker 1: Steve had recently won the award for Best Science Blog

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Speaker 1: and was grabbing dinner with three locals who were regular

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Speaker 1: readers of his blog, Climate on It. He was quickly

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Speaker 1: becoming a rock star amongst a group of global warming

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Speaker 1: skeptics that considered themselves lukewarmers, people that believe humans could

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Speaker 1: be warming the planet but questioned the magnitude of the

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Speaker 1: problem and the certainty of climate science. They weren't science deniers,

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Speaker 1: as their critics would say, they were just curious. Steve

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Speaker 1: fell into climate science completely by chance.

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Speaker 7: I became interested in climate in a very casual way

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Speaker 7: in two thousand and two when Canada was discussing joining

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Speaker 7: the Kyoto Treaty.

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Speaker 1: Countries that joined the Kyoto Treaty I had to commit

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Speaker 1: to reducing their carbon dioxide emissions.

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Speaker 7: And one of the feature art arguments of the Canadian

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Speaker 7: government was that nineteen ninety eight was the warmest year

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Speaker 7: in one thousand years, and I wondered in the most

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Speaker 7: casual possible way.

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Speaker 1: How they knew that Steve wasn't a climate scientist by trade.

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Speaker 1: He was a consultant on mining exploration projects. But he

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Speaker 1: discussed global warming from time to time with a friend

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Speaker 1: that was a geologist, and this friend told him that

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Speaker 1: throughout geological history climate was much warmer in the past

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Speaker 1: than it is today.

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Speaker 7: And he viewed the climate science alarm as being more

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Speaker 7: or less equivalent to creationism.

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Speaker 1: So, out of curiosity, Steve read the climate studies claiming

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight was the warmest year. The reports weren't

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Speaker 1: foreign to him. Steve was accustomed to reading technical papers

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Speaker 1: for risky mining explorations. When he reviewed the documents, a

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Speaker 1: specific diagram stood out, and.

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Speaker 7: I was truck by the care with which they had

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Speaker 7: made the diagram. When you're trying to raise money, having

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Speaker 7: good diagrams is important, and I noticed that there was

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Speaker 7: attention to the graphics, so there was a promotional element

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Speaker 7: to it, which caught my eye.

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Speaker 1: The diagram had a distinctive shape picture a hockey stick

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Speaker 1: placed flat on the ground with just the blade of

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Speaker 1: the hockey stick pointing up to the sky. That's what

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Speaker 1: this global warming diagram looked. Like the flat shaft part

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Speaker 1: of the stick represented temperature changes over the past thousand years,

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Speaker 1: which looked pretty constant over time until the nineteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: when the graph dramatically shot up like the blade of

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Speaker 1: the hockey stick. This hockey stick graph was originally created

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Speaker 1: by American climate scientist Michael Mann with several of his colleagues.

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Speaker 1: One of the papers introducing the graph was titled Northern

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Speaker 1: Hemisphere Temperatures during the past millennium, but it was the

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Speaker 1: subtitle that was the most noteworthy. It read Inferences, Uncertainties

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Speaker 1: and limitations. Given the admitted uncertainties expressed in the subtitle,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to believe the hockey stick graph would become

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Speaker 1: the poster child of certainty of global warming. But it

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Speaker 1: would become just that. Pay close attention here, because if

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Speaker 1: you could understand what I'm about to say, you'll know

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Speaker 1: more about climate science than ninety nine percent of the

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Speaker 1: people in the world. This famous hockey stick graph shows

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Speaker 1: the Earth's temperature variations over the past thousand years. The

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Speaker 1: problem is there were no thermometers a thousand years ago

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Speaker 1: all over the Earth to capture the temperatures. In fact,

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Speaker 1: it isn't until the late eighteen hundreds that we have

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Speaker 1: any thermometer based record of temperatures around the world. So

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Speaker 1: to fill in Earth's temperatures before this time, before the

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, some climate scientists turn to trees. These scientists

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Speaker 1: believe that some old trees record past temperatures in their

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Speaker 1: growth pattern. Picture cutting across section of a tree and

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Speaker 1: looking at that cross section. What you see your tree rings, right,

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Speaker 1: Those are the concerents, centric circles that start small in

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Speaker 1: the center of the cross section, then get larger and

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Speaker 1: larger as they reach the surface of the tree trunk.

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Speaker 1: You can typically estimate the age of a tree by

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Speaker 1: analyzing these tree rings. The older the tree, the more

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Speaker 1: tree rings it has. We're all pretty familiar with that concept,

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Speaker 1: but some climate scientists believe that you can go even

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Speaker 1: further and calculate the temperature from year to year using

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Speaker 1: these tree rings. Simplistically speaking, the more growth of a

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Speaker 1: tree ring, the hotter the temperature, basically providing a picture

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Speaker 1: of past temperatures when thermometers weren't around. So some climate

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Speaker 1: scientists use these tree rings to calculate and find the

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Speaker 1: temperatures all across the world before the eighteen hundreds. What

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Speaker 1: was alarming about the graph was that the increase in

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Speaker 1: temperature coincided closely with the beginning of the Industrial Revolution,

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Speaker 1: which started at about eighteen fifty. If true, the world's

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Speaker 1: temperature increase could be tied directly to the beginning of

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Speaker 1: humans burning fossil fuels. Theories of human induced climate change

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Speaker 1: had been around long before Michael Mann's hockey stick graph,

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Speaker 1: but his diagram gave the first powerful graphical image of

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Speaker 1: global warming, so powerful that the United Nations used a

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Speaker 1: version of it in their two thousand one Climate Report.

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Speaker 1: This was the document that gives guidance to governments on

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Speaker 1: which policies to enact to reduce the effects of global warming.

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Speaker 1: The hockey stick graph became iconic and galvanized environmentalists to

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Speaker 1: call for urgent government action on global warming. But as

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Speaker 1: history shows, inciting one group often inspires an opposing group

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Speaker 1: to rise up. So is the story of the hockey

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Speaker 1: stick graph. More of red pilled America. After the break,

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Speaker 1: Red Pilled America. So the hockeystick graph galvanized the global

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Speaker 1: warming community. But it also had another effect. Just as

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Speaker 1: quickly as the graph was used as a rallying for

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Speaker 1: global warming activists, it gave birth to a camp of skeptics.

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Speaker 1: That's where the Canadian Steve McIntyre enters the picture. The

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Speaker 1: hockey stick graph confused Steve. A well known medieval warming

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Speaker 1: period where Earth's temperatures increased considerably sometime between the year

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Speaker 1: one thousand a D and thirteen hundred a D, followed

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Speaker 1: by a cooling trend known as the Little Ice Age,

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Speaker 1: was widely accepted in the science community and suggested that

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Speaker 1: Earth went through natural phases of warming and cooling, but

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Speaker 1: these events appeared to be absent from the hockey stick.

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Speaker 1: MacIntyre was curious about how the graph was made and

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Speaker 1: his chance would have it. The discipline of reconstructing temperatures

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Speaker 1: using tree rings, largely in exercise and statistics, fit right

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Speaker 1: within his mathematics background. Steve was a math whiz in

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Speaker 1: his early years.

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Speaker 7: I studied pure math at university. I mean I had

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Speaker 7: studied first in Canada in the High School Math Contest

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Speaker 7: and the International High School Math Contest. It was a

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Speaker 7: form of almost athletic activity for me.

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Speaker 1: Steve studied economics at Oxford and had been offered a

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Speaker 1: PhD scholarship at both Harvard and MIT, but after his

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Speaker 1: university studies, he decided to enter the private sector instead

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Speaker 1: of academia.

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Speaker 7: I hadn't done any maths since I was twenty one

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Speaker 7: or twenty two, but because I'd learned it well as

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Speaker 7: a teenager. The comparison that I made it's like you

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Speaker 7: were a Davis Cup tennis player and going in a

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Speaker 7: club tournament when you're fifty five, you'd be a tough out.

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Speaker 7: Even if you hadn't played for a long time. You

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Speaker 7: could pick it up fairly quickly.

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Speaker 1: His work in mining exploration also prepared him in another way.

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Speaker 7: In the mining exploration business, there's a lot of promotion,

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Speaker 7: there's a lot of crookedness, So you learned to be

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Speaker 7: fairly skeptical and wary and to look at data and

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Speaker 7: look at what people are saying, and not necessarily believe

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Speaker 7: everything you're told. And so I had an eye for

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Speaker 7: promotional claims or claims that were not necessarily supported. So

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Speaker 7: while I hadn't spent that time in academics, I spent

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Speaker 7: time with tricky people and learning how to check things.

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Speaker 1: So he decided to reach out to American climate scientist

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Speaker 1: Michael Mann to get his hands on the data and

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Speaker 1: computer code that he used to create the hockey stick graph.

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Speaker 7: So I emailed Band for his data, and he said

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Speaker 7: that he responded promptly and said that he had forgotten

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Speaker 7: where the FTP site for the data was.

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Speaker 1: An FTP site is an online location where people store

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Speaker 1: data and computer files for colleagues to access over the Internet.

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Speaker 7: It seemed extraordinary to me that so that the data

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Speaker 7: was not readily at hand. And it also seemed particularly

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Speaker 7: extraordinary to me because a thirty five year old guy

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Speaker 7: who's this was his study, that was his claim to fame,

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Speaker 7: how he wouldn't know at his fingertips where the data was.

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Speaker 1: If the hockey stick data wasn't readily available, it told

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Speaker 1: Steve something else.

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Speaker 7: What that meant to me is that nobody had audited

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Speaker 7: the data.

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Speaker 1: This was stunding to Steve. The un was using the

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Speaker 1: hockey stick graph to argue a reconfiguration of the entire

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Speaker 1: world's economy. Steve couldn't understand how such important data was

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Speaker 1: not readily available and seemingly not being reviewed with a

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Speaker 1: skeptical eye.

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Speaker 7: And I thought, well, if none of them have audited it.

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Speaker 7: I will. The image that I put was, well, I'll

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Speaker 7: try to figure out what Man did, and I viewed

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Speaker 7: it as trying to solve a big crossway puzzle.

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Speaker 1: The decision wasn't a political one for Steve at the time.

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Speaker 1: He considered himself a Bill Clinton Democrat. He was just

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Speaker 1: curious and had some time on his hands. Michael Man's

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Speaker 1: associate eventually got Steve a version of the data that

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Speaker 1: created his hockey stick, and once Steve began reviewing it,

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Speaker 1: he thought he saw some red flags.

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Speaker 7: I started looking at some of the data and wasn't

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Speaker 7: entirely clear where the shape of the hockey stick came from.

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Speaker 1: He became suspicious that they were possibly cherry picking the

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Speaker 1: temperature data so that a hockey stick would result no

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Speaker 1: matter what data was entered into the climate model. To

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Speaker 1: test his theory, he input random data called red noise

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Speaker 1: into a climate model and out popped a hockey stick graph.

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Speaker 1: Steve began posting some of his analysis in skeptic chat

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Speaker 1: groups online. His work immediately stood out because his analysis

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Speaker 1: was not based on emotion. Instead, it was data driven,

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Speaker 1: and he learned something surprising about the people that liked

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Speaker 1: his work.

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Speaker 7: A lot of skeptics, I guess would be people like

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Speaker 7: me who felt that climate was issue, but we're concerned

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Speaker 7: that it was being oversold as an shoe.

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Speaker 1: His posts led to a small science journal asking him

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Speaker 1: to write an article. He'd never written an academic paper before,

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Speaker 1: so he teamed up with an academic he met in

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Speaker 1: the skeptic chat rooms. That person was Ross McKittrick, an

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Speaker 1: environmental economist and a PhD in economics who'd authored a

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Speaker 1: book Skeptical about global warming. The two worked on papers

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Speaker 1: evaluating michael Mann's original hockey stick graph, highlighting what they

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Speaker 1: saw as his errors, and using the data. In two

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Speaker 1: thousand and four, some of their findings forced michael Mann

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Speaker 1: and his colleagues to publish corrections to their original hockey

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Speaker 1: stick paper. However, they didn't change any of their underlying results,

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Speaker 1: but the skeptics work drew blood, so climate scientists started

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Speaker 1: a blog called real Climate to debunk their detractors.

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Speaker 7: They began their existence with a series of blogs slagging

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Speaker 7: me somebody who was following something an email. And you know,

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Speaker 7: if you think you can win your disputes in the

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Speaker 7: sort of academic journals, you were getting killed.

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Speaker 1: Steve had a pretty amateurish website at the time.

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Speaker 11: So somebody set up a book sort of proposed the

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Speaker 11: name Climate Audit, and proposed that a start a blog,

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Speaker 11: and it was already arranged to start up the blog,

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Speaker 11: you know, to kind of get set up for me.

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Speaker 7: And I started writing and found that I liked it.

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Speaker 1: These dueling websites began a daily online battle between climate

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Speaker 1: scientists and global warming skeptics. One of the main contention

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Speaker 1: points between these two camps has been a concept known

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Speaker 1: as divergence. Some climate scientists noticed a problem using tree

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Speaker 1: rings to calculate today's temperatures. What they found was that

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Speaker 1: some tree rings showed a decrease in temperatures starting at

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Speaker 1: around nineteen sixty one, while actual thermometer readings showed a

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Speaker 1: temperature increase. The science and the thermometers weren't matching up.

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Speaker 1: So what the climate scientist did in some of the

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Speaker 1: hockey stick graphs was delete the tree ring temperatures after

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one to hide the tree ring decline in temperatures,

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Speaker 1: replacing them with the actual thermometer temperatures. Their rationale was

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Speaker 1: that the tree rings weren't capturing today's higher temperatures. The

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Speaker 1: skeptics thought this was bad science, and why because it

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Speaker 1: raised the question that if the tree rings aren't recording

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Speaker 1: the higher temperatures of today, couldn't tree rings have also

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Speaker 1: missed higher temperatures in the past as well. Today's spike

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Speaker 1: in temperatures could have also been there one thousand years ago,

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Speaker 1: meaning today's high temperatures weren't unprecedented. This divergence appeared to

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Speaker 1: show a serious problem with some of the science behind

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Speaker 1: the hockey stick graphs. Steve McIntyre asked Michael Mann to

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Speaker 1: provide more of the data and computer codes used to

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Speaker 1: create his hockey stick graphs, but by then Michael Man

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Speaker 1: had completely cut Steve off. Their feud began reaching the

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Speaker 1: mainstream media.

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Speaker 7: The Wall Street Journal writes an article and that catches

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Speaker 7: the eye of the House Energy and Commerce Committee.

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Speaker 1: And in two thousand and six a series of government

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Speaker 1: hearings began questioning climate science and asking if they were

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Speaker 1: in fact cherry picking data to create the hockey stick

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Speaker 1: graph I.

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Speaker 7: Remember Rosanne Derigo, one of the famous tree ring people,

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Speaker 7: talked about cherry picking and said, you have to pick

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Speaker 7: cherries if you want to make cherry pie. And I

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Speaker 7: thought that that neatly summarized the approach of the tree

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Speaker 7: ring people.

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Speaker 1: In other words, it sounded like the scientists were cherry

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Speaker 1: picking the data to get the results they wanted a

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Speaker 1: hockey stick. Steve chronicled the hearings and his analysis on

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Speaker 1: his blog Climate Audit, and his readership grew.

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Speaker 7: My audience was highly professional, a lot of scientists from

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Speaker 7: other fields, a lot of people in finance businesses, a

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Speaker 7: lot of computer programmers, business professionals, people who didn't have

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Speaker 7: the time to the data themselves but were interested in

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Speaker 7: reading about it.

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Speaker 1: Readers like San Francisco native Steve Mosher, an open source

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Speaker 1: software developer. Mosher was aligned with most of what climate

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Speaker 1: scientists believed, but when he began questioning some of their

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Speaker 1: work at their blog Real Climate, he got a very

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Speaker 1: negative response, you know, and.

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Speaker 4: It kind of shocked me, you know, so I pushed

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Speaker 4: back against that. And then at some point they they

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Speaker 4: were railing about this guy at Climate Audit, and I thought,

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Speaker 4: let me, let me go look and see what this

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Speaker 4: what this is? So I went over to Climate Audit

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Speaker 4: and uh, you know, like he was doing math.

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Speaker 1: Mosher liked Steve McIntyre's desire for transparency in climate science

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Speaker 1: and became a regular commenter on his blog. The online

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Speaker 1: feud also drew in Charles Roder, another San Francisco native.

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Speaker 3: I had sort of gotten drawn to the whole climate argument,

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Speaker 3: and it really started heating up on that entire site,

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Speaker 3: you know, two thousand and six, two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 3: and it became fun, serial drama, like an online community.

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Speaker 1: Another reader, Anthony Watts, lived just north of San Francisco.

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Speaker 1: Anthony was actually a global warming activist back in the

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Speaker 1: early nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 9: I came up with this idea of promoting doing a

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Speaker 9: series of promotions to television meteorometerists around the country to

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Speaker 9: get their viewers to plant trees offset c of two,

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Speaker 9: and we planted about a half a million trees because

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Speaker 9: of that.

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Speaker 1: He'd spent years as a research assistant in the meteorology

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Speaker 1: department at Purdue University. In two thousand and six, he

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Speaker 1: started a science blog called What's Up with That and

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Speaker 1: began investigating the thermometers that were measuring global warming and

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Speaker 1: what he found shocked him. More of Red Pilled America

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Speaker 1: After the.

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Speaker 2: Break, how are you feeling about the current state of

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Speaker 2: our country? Time Listeners of Red Pilled America know that

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Speaker 2: since our inception, we've been warning about the dangers of giving.

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Speaker 12: Up the culture.

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Speaker 1: Republicans abandoned storytelling, art, academia, entertainment, music, literature, the institutions

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Speaker 1: that define what it means to be American, and by

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Speaker 1: doing so, they allowed Marxists to pump their poison messages

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Speaker 1: into the American bloodstream.

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Speaker 2: But there is a silver lining. Red Pilled America is

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Speaker 2: the beginning of an antidote because we're pioneering the take

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Speaker 2: back of our culture. If we succeed, others will follow

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Speaker 2: and will create a symphony of storytellers that restores what

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Speaker 2: it means to be American.

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Speaker 1: Please consider supporting the show by visiting Redpilled America dot

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Speaker 1: com and clicking support or shop in the topmenu. It's

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Speaker 1: time to tell our side of the story, and with

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Speaker 1: your help, we will continue to blaze the trail.

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Speaker 2: Visit Redpilled America dot com to help us continue the fight.

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Speaker 2: Support what you love or it goes away.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Red Pilled America. So Anthony Watts began

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Speaker 1: to investigate how temperature stations were measuring global warming, and

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Speaker 1: what he found shocked him.

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Speaker 9: It really began to start taking off in two thousand

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Speaker 9: and seven, and that's when I started servying weather stations

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Speaker 9: around the country and it got quite a bit of attention,

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Speaker 9: particularly from a station in Marysville, California, not too far

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Speaker 9: from me that i'd surveyed, and it was basically a

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Speaker 9: thermometer right in the middle of a parking lot at

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Speaker 9: the fire station. It had vehicles parking there. The fire

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Speaker 9: chief parked his vehicle in the special parking space right

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Speaker 9: next to the thermometer, where the grill of the fire

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Speaker 9: chief's truck was right up against the thermometer a couple

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Speaker 9: feet away, and there were the city had rented out

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Speaker 9: space for a cell phone tower, and there was these

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Speaker 9: two equipment sheds blowing hot air from the air conditioning

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Speaker 9: vents all in this area.

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Speaker 1: And this particular thermometer had been showing that Maryville's temperature

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Speaker 1: had been increasing off the charts and it was.

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Speaker 9: Just zoom off the scale, and I looked at nearby

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Speaker 9: stations and the similar trend wasn't there, and it was

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Speaker 9: just another light bulb moment for me. It's like, Wow,

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Speaker 9: this is where climate science is measuring data and they

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Speaker 9: consider this accurate. And I put that out and I

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Speaker 9: got picked up by Steve McIntyre Climate audit.

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Speaker 1: Anthony and the two other Bay Area natives, Mosher and

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Speaker 1: Charles became friendly with Steve McIntyre through his climate audit blog.

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Speaker 1: Mosher remembers how he met the guys for the first time.

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Speaker 4: At one point, McIntyre mentions that he's going to be

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Speaker 4: coming to San Francisco and one of the people on

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Speaker 4: the site ends up being Charles Roger. His nickname was Geez,

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Speaker 4: and he says, Oh, if you're coming to San Francisco,

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Speaker 4: Steve McIntyre, why don't we get together for dinner? And

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Speaker 4: so I chimed in and I said, like, heck, I'll

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Speaker 4: join you. Because Anthony showed up as well.

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Speaker 9: We had been talking online and we decided to meet up,

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Speaker 9: and so we met at a restaurant in downtown San

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Speaker 9: Francisco in two thousand and seven, in December, and that's

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Speaker 9: where this friendship and partnership was formed out of that.

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Speaker 1: Little did any of them know how pivotal that dinner

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Speaker 1: would be. Anthony told the table that his skeptic blog

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Speaker 1: Wats Up with That was growing faster than he could handle.

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Speaker 1: Charles offered his help, and.

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Speaker 3: I basically told him that I had tons of experience

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Speaker 3: moderating back from my own site days. I also had

440
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 3: lots of time in my hands and worked from home,

441
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 3: and I would be happy to give him help moderating.

442
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: Anthony took him up on his offer. Charles and Mosher

443
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 1: hit it off as well and would become roommates. These

444
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 1: four and the many commenters on their blogs would meticulously

445
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 1: audit the work of climate scientists. The feud between the

446
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: two camps had been reaching epic proportions, even spilling into

447
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 1: Capitol Hill. But what escalated the conflict further was something

448
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: basic in science, verification of results. The climate scientists refused

449
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: to allow the skeptics access to their work so that

450
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: they could review it. Steve McIntyre would ask for the

451
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: data and computer code used to create the hockey stick graphs,

452
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: but at every turn the climate scientists would Stonewaller's requests,

453
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: with Michael Mann completely cutting him off. Steve looked to

454
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: audit the graphs of a different hockey stick team, the

455
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: climate scientist at the University of East Anglia's Climate Research Unit,

456
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: known by its acronym CRU. When politics enters science, the

457
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 1: results can only be trusted when qualified people with a

458
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 1: skeptical eye verifies the work. By this time, Steve McIntyre

459
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: was a published author on the topic of hockey stick graphs.

460
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: He'd even become a reviewer on the UN's Mother of

461
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: All Global Warming reports. None of that mattered. CRU rejected

462
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: his requests for data, claiming that they had confidentiality agreements

463
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: with the countries that provided them temperature data, and those

464
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: agreements prohibited them from giving out that information. But Steve

465
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: discovered that CRU had given their data to another institution,

466
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: which typically nullifies a confidentiality agreement. So Steve told them

467
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: that they should be free to give him the data,

468
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 1: but CRU figured out another way to reject him.

469
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 7: So they responded that their confidentiality agreements prevented them from

470
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 7: giving the data to a non academic Why would some

471
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 7: agreement twenty five years earlier include a term like that

472
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 7: if that was just a fabrication, And you know, it's

473
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 7: that kind of fabrication by the climate community that really

474
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 7: undercuts a lot of their claims and other topics, because

475
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,479
Speaker 7: that's something that easily checked people understand. And so if

476
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 7: they're lying about something like that, what else are they

477
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 7: lying about?

478
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: So Steve got an idea. Both the UK and the

479
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: United States active Freedom of Information Acts, known by their

480
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: acronyms as FIS or foyers. These laws provide access to

481
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: information that was created using tax dollars. Steve decided to

482
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 1: use these laws to get what he wanted. He submitted

483
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 1: FOI requests to climate researchers asking for the confidentiality agreements

484
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: they claimed to have with five different countries. Then he

485
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: turned to his blog audience.

486
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 7: And then I posted up my letter and asked readers

487
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 7: to send in FOI requests for other countries. I viewed

488
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 7: it more as sort of a letter writing campaign that

489
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 7: it was just me asking for it. They would just say, oh,

490
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 7: well that's McIntyre, he's crazy. Whereas if you know, they

491
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 7: got fifty letters that they would then sort of have

492
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 7: to They would then have to reconsider what they were

493
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 7: doing and maybe they'd give it out after all. I

494
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 7: probably underestimated their stubbornness on this.

495
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: Cru rejected his requests again. But all these attempts at

496
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: trying to get the data sent Steve McIntyre's climate audit

497
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 1: readers on a hunting expedition. You see, Steve had been

498
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: taking these readers on a journey, slowly teaching his audience

499
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: all along the way about the uncertainties and climate science

500
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: journaling the specific data he was being refused. Their stonewalling

501
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: riled up his audience. Getting the data became a game

502
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: of capture the flag. At the time of the rejection,

503
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: many readers began to learn that CRU had an online

504
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: data storage location, an FTP site, and they began rummaging

505
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: through them to see if they could find the data

506
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: that they were refusing to give Steve.

507
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 7: And I remember a couple of them saying that they

508
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 7: fell into areas of that They fell into areas of

509
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 7: the CRU website that were unexpected.

510
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: Steve's readers were actually finding themselves in private areas on

511
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: the climate Researcher's website. The data it appeared vulnerable, the

512
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: vulnerability that would change the course of the world's economy.

513
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 9: Sometimes you're so busy defending the front door, if I

514
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 9: get the back doors open.

515
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: At about five pm on November seventeenth, two thousand and nine,

516
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: Mosher was heading home from a coffee shop when he

517
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: got a call.

518
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 4: Charles and I lived South americt On on Fourth Street,

519
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 4: and I was over in the Marina on the other

520
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 4: side of San Francisco. I was there having coffee with friends.

521
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 4: I'm headed home and I got into a cab to

522
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 4: go back to Soma and Charles calls me and he says, like.

523
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 7: Where are you?

524
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 4: And I said, well, I'm you know, I'm over in

525
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 4: the marina. I'm headed. I'm headed back to the apartment.

526
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 4: What's up? And he says, well, you got.

527
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 7: To get here.

528
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 1: Since meeting at dinner in San Francisco two years earlier,

529
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: Charles had become the primary comment moderator at Anthony Watt's

530
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: Skeptic blog What's up with that?

531
00:30:59,640 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 7: You know?

532
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 3: And I was keeping a lot of hours, so I

533
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 3: might sleep for three hours, not sleep for three hours,

534
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 3: but I was constantly online, approving comments, making flip and comments.

535
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: That afternoon, he came across a comment on the site

536
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: that stood out. A commenter named Foya posted a link

537
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: to a Russian server with text that appeared to be

538
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: snippets of emails. At the time, Anthony Watches out of

539
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: the country.

540
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 9: I had been art in Belgium at the time. I

541
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 9: was at the headquarters for the European Union and I

542
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 9: were there to give a presentation along with some other

543
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 9: climate skeptics, so Charles.

544
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: Was manning the site on his own. The comment looked weird,

545
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: so he blocked it from going public and went to

546
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: the Russian link to see what it was. It was

547
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: a ZIP file of what appeared to be documents and

548
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: emails from CRU, the Climate Research Unit. When he reviewed

549
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 1: the contents, his first thought was, holy was.

550
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 3: What was going through my mind? It was a real

551
00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 3: treasure trove of showing what was essentially just activist science

552
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 3: operator not you know, not objective, not reasonable. You know,

553
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 3: I'm not going to call it completely fraudulent or hoax,

554
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 3: but it was extremely It was like activist scientists as

555
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 3: we're now experienced with activist journalism. Yes people are still

556
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 3: telling facts, but they're doing it from such a skewed

557
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 3: perspective that you might as well call it lies.

558
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 7: There was the cause.

559
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 3: They were actually saying that some of this. You know,

560
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 3: if this guy says this, it's not going to be

561
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 3: helpful to the cause. That's not scientific inquiry.

562
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: This was a highly sensitive situation. The files were likely

563
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: either leaked by an insider or stolen, or perhaps something

564
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: even more problematic. Charles contacted Anthony to get some direction.

565
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 9: And this came in an email to me from Charles Rodder,

566
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 9: you need to look at this, And he told me

567
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 9: in the email what was going on, and I got

568
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 9: on the phone with him. And this was a couple

569
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 9: hours before I was supposed to go into the EU,

570
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 9: and I had been forewarned about security and I'm going

571
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 9: to be and all this stuff, and so in seeing

572
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 9: what Charles had and then actually downloading it and looking

573
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 9: at it briefly myself, and then looking at the timing

574
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 9: of it all, I'm thinking to myself, why now, why

575
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 9: right before I'm supposed to go into the EU and

576
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 9: go through security. And so my concern was is that

577
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 9: somehow I was being set up.

578
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 3: I didn't know, and we were very worried that this

579
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 3: was a setup because Anthony at this point was getting

580
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 3: a lot of notoriety, and who knows what kind of

581
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 3: data theft and libel laws and things existed in Europe

582
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 3: that they could nail Anthony on if he was found

583
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 3: with this thing.

584
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 9: All of a sudden, I had in my position on

585
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 9: my laptop over there in Belgium these very sensitive files

586
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 9: and I was going to go into this big security

587
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 9: test here in a couple hours, and so my thought

588
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 9: was I need to divest myself in this file, and

589
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 9: I purchased a professional file eracer and I told Charles

590
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 9: that under no circumstances are you to release this on

591
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 9: the blog or anything, because I need to get back

592
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 9: into the United States and I don't want to be

593
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 9: listed as someone who's been involved in some kind of

594
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 9: industrial lespianade or anything like that. And so he agreed

595
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 9: to that.

596
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: Charles had strict direction not to publish the files, but

597
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 1: was given the okay to talk about them with two people,

598
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: the other two from their San Francisco dinner two years earlier,

599
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 1: Mosher and Steve McIntyre, And.

600
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 3: So I also called my roommate Stephen Moser.

601
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: Mosher was fully versed in the raging feud between the

602
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: skeptics and climate scientists over the access to data encode,

603
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: and he was the only person that could authenticate the

604
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: contents without Charles losing control of the files.

605
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 4: And so what he told me is he got this

606
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 4: link in this comment, and so he told me he

607
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 4: downloaded the contents, and so Charles Saint Anthony wanted me

608
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 4: to look at it, but he was concerned that someone

609
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 4: had put it on his site to trap him essentially,

610
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 4: and that was fake.

611
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: When Mosher walked in the door, Charles was waiting for

612
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: him and made him a CD of the files.

613
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 3: By that point, I'd already done all the virus scans

614
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 3: and trojan scans and made sure it was clean.

615
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 4: So I took the CD and I put it on

616
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 4: my UH. At that point, I had an Apple computer

617
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 4: I had, and I sat on the couch and I

618
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 4: started reading. And I didn't stop reading, and I didn't

619
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 4: I didn't move, and I didn't eat, and I just

620
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 4: read everything.

621
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: What was in the leaked documents was shocking climate scientists

622
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: massaging data and appearing to pressure colleagues to change their

623
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: results so they wouldn't give ammunition to skeptics, climate scientists

624
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,439
Speaker 1: appearing to collude to delete emails withhold data and limit

625
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: the scientific review of their work, and studying admissions of

626
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: doubt and uncertainty in their methods. As Joe Biden would say,

627
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: this was a big fun deal. Mosher, Charles, and Anthony

628
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: all thought that they were the only people that had

629
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 1: the file, so they felt they had some time to

630
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: think about what to do next. And anyways, they couldn't

631
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 1: do anything with the files until Anthony was back on

632
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,279
Speaker 1: American soil. So their first mission was to figure out

633
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: if the files were authentic. As they come through the

634
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: documents in those first few hours, they noticed climate scientists

635
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: had forwarded emails from Steve McIntyre. So they got on

636
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: the phone with Steve.

637
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 7: Mosher calls me because he sees some emails from me,

638
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 7: and and nobody knows that the first at the beginning,

639
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 7: whether it's real or not. And so he said, you

640
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 7: called me, you know, are those sure your emails? And

641
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,280
Speaker 7: I confirmed their authenticity.

642
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: Now they knew that some of the emails were definitely real,

643
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: but they weren't sure that they were all real. Mosher

644
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 1: went non stop reading the emails for the next day,

645
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: spending hours on the phone with Steve McIntyre trying to

646
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: confirm their authenticity. Then they got a break. A professor

647
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: at the University of East Anglia emailed Steve McIntyre asking

648
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 1: if he knew anything about a hack of their climate

649
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: research unit.

650
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 7: So, you know, I said, there's some big lockdown at

651
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 7: the university.

652
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: This was the sign they needed The files were real,

653
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: but they couldn't go public yet. Anthony Watts was still

654
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: not on American soil. Mosher was chomping at the bit

655
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 1: to go live. Charles had to hold the line.

656
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just calmly making coffee in the kitchen

657
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 3: and just telling him that if this is important as

658
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 3: we think it is, two or three days is not.

659
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 7: Going to matter.

660
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 1: With Anthony now in a flight pattern heading for Dulles

661
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: International Airport in Virginia, Mosher had been reading the emails

662
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: for almost two days straight. That's when they got an

663
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: idea to search the Internet to see if the hacker

664
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 1: posted the Russian link anywhere else.

665
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 4: And at that point I think Charles started looking and

666
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 4: he found the same link, like when you search for

667
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 4: that link, like he found out a.

668
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 1: Jeff's Jeff Condon, an aeronautical engineer, had started a Looke

669
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: warmer site called the air Vent a little over a

670
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: year earlier. He began the blog to translate some of

671
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: Steve McIntyre's climate analysis for a non technical audience. Jeff,

672
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: like the rest of the Lukewarmers, believed that transparency in

673
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 1: climate science was key.

674
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,399
Speaker 10: The whole purpose of our climate blogs was to put

675
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 10: everything in the open where people can see the information,

676
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 10: and there was some efforts on the science community not

677
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 10: to allow access.

678
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: This belief made his website a trigger for the bombshell.

679
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: The hacker came to be known as mister Foya. The

680
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 1: first time we could see him infiltrate CRU's data server

681
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: was on September sixteenth, two thousand and nine, just a

682
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 1: few weeks after the Climate Research Unit denied Steve McIntyre's

683
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: request for their confidentiality agreements. Mister Foya infiltrated CRU's servers

684
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: again on September twenty eighth, then September twenty ninth, and

685
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 1: September thirtieth. He was grabbing documents related to the hockey

686
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: stick graph. Mister Foya infiltrated again on October first, then

687
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: again on October second. In October third, he appeared to

688
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: be looking for something.

689
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 7: But what wonder what it was? It was an interesting one.

690
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 6: Who was it?

691
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 7: It was the data that had been the topic of

692
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 7: the fight about years before that man had refused to

693
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 7: provide me.

694
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: The infiltrator founded on November sixteenth, it would be a

695
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: matter of hours before the files hit the web. The

696
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: next day, mister Foya gained access to the climate scientists

697
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 1: blog Real Climate, locked out all other users and uploaded

698
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 1: the stolen CRIU files to their site. Mister Foya then

699
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: went to Steve McIntyre's blog and posted a comment with

700
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: a link to the file he'd just uploaded and included

701
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: the text quote A miracle just happened. This guy was

702
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 1: a prankster with balls. The administrator of Real Climate quickly

703
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: regained access to the blog and deleted the file from

704
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: public view. With the link to the stolen files now gone,

705
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: mister Foya went another route to leak the files. He

706
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: uploaded the files to a Russian serve, then posted a

707
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: link to the files on both Anthony watts blog What's

708
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: Up with That and Jeff Condon's The air Vent. As

709
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: we already know, the comment on What's Up with That

710
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: was held in moderation. Jeff Condon, however, had a different

711
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: philosophy for his site.

712
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 10: Okay, so in the spirit of openness, I mean the

713
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 10: air Vent was the site where I literally didn't do

714
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 10: any moderation. I would let any comment go on the site,

715
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 10: and so if somebody dropped a comment on there, it

716
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 10: was immediately visible to any reader.

717
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: At the time that mister Foyer posted a link to

718
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: the stolen files on his website, Jeff was practically as

719
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: far away from the heat of the climate debate as.

720
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 7: You can be yeah out.

721
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 10: I was out in the deep woods hunting deer up

722
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 10: north in Michigan, where there was actually no phone service,

723
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 10: no cell phone service, no Internet.

724
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: The link to the stolen files sat in his comment

725
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: section for two days while Jeff was in the middle

726
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 1: of nowhere. So when Charles told Moscher he found a

727
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: link to the files on Jeff's site, the game changed

728
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 1: for Mosher. He reached out to Anthony Watts, who is

729
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 1: now in line at US Customs.

730
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 4: But at this point then I then I said, Hey,

731
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 4: the cat's out of the bag. So I went to

732
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 4: Anthony and I said like, hey, I you know, like

733
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 4: I promised you that I would not post them anywhere

734
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 4: or send them to anyone, show them to anyone. But

735
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 4: now that we know that your place is not the

736
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 4: only place, you know, like our agreements off.

737
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: Most of you began posting excerpts of the emails at

738
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: a small skeptic site, and the Lukewarmer community started buzzing.

739
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: The biggest story in global warming history was about to break.

740
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 9: I'm in line to go through customs and I'm getting

741
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:45,800
Speaker 9: text messages from Charles and Steven Mosher and from Steve McIntyre,

742
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 9: and they're starting to talk about this, and I remember

743
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 9: saying back to McIntyre, the whole thing's got to be

744
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 9: a hoax. And that was just sort of a preemptive,

745
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 9: you know, in case somebody grabbed my phone. I was

746
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,399
Speaker 9: it didn't look complicit, you know, And so I got

747
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 9: through custom. And once I got through Custom, then I'm

748
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 9: back on us soil. The first thing I did was

749
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,720
Speaker 9: find Wi Fi, sat down, and I wrote the story.

750
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,839
Speaker 9: And I wrote the story sitting on the floor at

751
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 9: Dallas Airport, waiting for my gate flight to depart. I

752
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 9: heard them saying last call for boarding, and I hit

753
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 9: send and published, and I'm running for the door. I

754
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 9: got on the plane and then I had a four

755
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 9: five hour flight back to Sacramento, California. And that was

756
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 9: a time when there was no Wi Fi and airplane,

757
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 9: and so it was kind of a what have I

758
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 9: done kind of a moment.

759
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: With the biggest skeptic blog in the world now covering

760
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 1: the story, it went viral. A reader on What's Up

761
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: with That dubbed the scandal climategate. The name stuck. It

762
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: was a bombshell climate gate.

763
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 5: They're calling it a new scandal.

764
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 8: Over global warming, and it's burning up the internet.

765
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 6: Have the books been cooked on climate.

766
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 3: Change hot topic?

767
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 6: Did scientists skew their research to support theories about global warming?

768
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 4: Because this is a world wide hoax and its primary

769
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 4: target was you, the people of the United States of America.

770
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 7: Now we find out that this institute in fact was

771
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 7: hiding from the people of Great Britain in the world that,

772
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 7: in fact, climate change is a hoax.

773
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 6: Something I've been saying for a long time.

774
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 8: Those who doubt that man made greenhouse gases are changing

775
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,879
Speaker 8: the climate say These emails from Britain's University of East

776
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 8: Anglia show climate scientists massaging data and suppressing studies by

777
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 8: those who disagree.

778
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 5: One of the most damning email exchanges credits man with

779
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 5: a trick to hide the decline in temperatures. In another,

780
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 5: the head of the National Center for Atmospheric Research rights

781
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,840
Speaker 5: a colleague. The fact is we can't account for the

782
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 5: lack of warming at the moment, and it is a

783
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 5: travesty that we can't.

784
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,479
Speaker 1: A scandal even reached into pop culture, hitting the news

785
00:43:57,560 --> 00:43:58,720
Speaker 1: desk of John Stewart.

786
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 5: I've just completed Mike's nature trick of adding in the

787
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 5: real tempts to each series for the last twenty years

788
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 5: ie from nineteen eighty one onwards and from nineteen sixty one.

789
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 8: For Keith's to hide the decline, I say it's nothing.

790
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 1: He was just using a trick to hide the decline.

791
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 7: It's just scientists speak for using a standard statistical technique

792
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 7: recalibrating data in order to.

793
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 9: Trick you.

794
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 4: Into not knowing about the decline.

795
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: The leaked documents didn't debunk human caused global warming, but

796
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: climategate did uncover serious issues with climate science. It's bias,

797
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: its attempt to avoid scrutiny, its refusal to show its

798
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: work to skeptics, its odd massaging of data, and the

799
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: uncertainties of the hockey stick graph. This could all be

800
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: seen in the emails. Mister Foyer, the leaker of the files,

801
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,919
Speaker 1: was never caught. UK law enforcement closed its case after

802
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: two and a half years with no suspects. Apparently mister

803
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: Foyer wiped his trace clean. For a brief moment, it

804
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: appeared change was coming global warming. Media chastised the scientists

805
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: involved in the scandal and called for a new transparency

806
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 1: in their work. A few climate scientists even became skeptics

807
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: including doctor Judith Curry.

808
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 12: I thank the Chairman the ranking members for the opportunity

809
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 12: to offer testimony today. Prior to two thousand and nine,

810
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 12: I felt that supporting the IPCC consensus on climate change

811
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 12: was a responsible thing to do. I bought into the argument,

812
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 12: don't trust what one scientist says, trust what an international

813
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 12: team of a thousand scientists has said. After years of

814
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 12: careful deliberation, that all changed for me in November two

815
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 12: thousand and nine, following the leak Climategate emails that illustrated

816
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:55,240
Speaker 12: the sausage making and even bullying that went into building

817
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 12: the consensus.

818
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 1: But the calls for reform didn't last.

819
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 3: The establishment managed to put up all its defenses beIN

820
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 3: slow the establishment crushed it.

821
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:10,479
Speaker 1: And several investigations concluded largely exonerating the climate scientists. After

822
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: all was done, they proceeded to go right back to

823
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: the practices that led to the leak in the first place.

824
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 7: The climate scientists community has become angrier as a result

825
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 7: of it. Afterwards, they doubled down in becoming even more insular.

826
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 7: Their reaction was not to blame themselves for their language,

827
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 7: but they blamed that. They blamed skeptics for sort of

828
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 7: putting pressure on them, which caused them to write that

829
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 7: I mean, I thought that the people ought to have

830
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 7: disowned the practice of deleting data to hide its applied

831
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 7: but they didn't do that. They blamed skeptics for asking questions.

832
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 1: Climate scientists returned to calling skeptics science deniers, a label

833
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,959
Speaker 1: meant to marginalize lukewarmers like Anthony Watts, because the truth

834
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: of their position is harder to combat.

835
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 9: I believe that carbon dioxide does have an effect on

836
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 9: the temperature of the Earth. The only real scientific question

837
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 9: is how much? And that question has been in flux

838
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 9: and unanswered for over thirty years. It hasn't been nailed down.

839
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 9: How much temperature increase do we get for a doubling

840
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,760
Speaker 9: of CO two in Earth's atmosphere, and the estimate range

841
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 9: in science anywhere from a half degree up to eight degrees.

842
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 9: There's no actual number where everyone can say this is it,

843
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 9: this is the right number. They've not nailed that down

844
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 9: in thirty some years of climate science and something that

845
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 9: that uncertain. How do you plan for the future, how

846
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 9: do you say we're in a crisis or not? And

847
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,760
Speaker 9: that is the big question, And so yes, I believe

848
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 9: carbon dioxide has some effect. How much is still a.

849
00:47:54,320 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: Question, which brings us back to the question why do

850
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: so many people think global warming is a hoax? The

851
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:10,359
Speaker 1: answer is Climategate.

852
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 6: They probably see the email that was sent a couple

853
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 6: of months ago by one of the leaders of global

854
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 6: warming the initiative, and you know, almost saying, I guess

855
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 6: they're saying it's a con.

856
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 1: The hockey stick was considered to be gospel, even with

857
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 1: its scientific uncertainties. It was then used as a weapon

858
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:29,720
Speaker 1: to try and punish the US while leaving the biggest

859
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: polluters unscathed. To some that might look a lot like

860
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: a hoax. And it was all stopped by a tiny

861
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: collective of bloggers. What this small group of skeptics did

862
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: was absolutely incredible. The global warming establishment's resistance to their

863
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: constant auditing forced the release of the Climategate files. The

864
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: message that those files delivered eventually planted a seed in

865
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,399
Speaker 1: the mind of citizen Trump that ultimately blossomed into him

866
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 1: withdrawing from the Paris Accord once elected. That decision altered

867
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 1: the course of the world's economy, and it could all

868
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: be tracked back to a few lukewarmers. That's how big

869
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: climate Gate was. But you don't have to take my

870
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: word for it. Believe Trump's own words. Just a few

871
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 1: months after climategate.

872
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 6: Broke, I think that the memorandum or whatever it was

873
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 6: that they found a few months ago was devastating by

874
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 6: the leaders of the movement of global warming. I think

875
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 6: that was devastating because that basically said, you people are

876
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 6: a bunch of jerks to follow us, and which is kidding.

877
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 2: Red Pilled America is an iHeartRadio original podcast. It's produced

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Speaker 2: by me Adrianna Quortez and Patrick Carrelchi for Informed Ventures. Now,

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Speaker 2: our entire archive of episodes is only available to our

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Speaker 2: backstage subscribers. To subscribe, visit Redpilled America dot com and

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Speaker 2: click support in the topmenu. Thanks for listening.