Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukeleman. This is a production of
Speaker 1: the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where
Speaker 1: we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes
Speaker 1: of the actual bear Grease podcast, presented by f h
Speaker 1: F Gear, American made purpose built hunting and fishing gear
Speaker 1: that's designed to be as rugged as the place as
Speaker 1: we explore.
Speaker 2: This is quite an environment we have in here for
Speaker 2: the render right now. It is everybody's heart as racing.
Speaker 1: A lot, not me and Brad and bears bear.
Speaker 2: Nope, you feel no increased anxiety in your nervous system
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: Hey, if that if what is in that bucket was
Speaker 1: crawling across my left, you just chill. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: probably not.
Speaker 2: Like an equine animal its census fear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is that right? Brad?
Speaker 3: Is that why that one's being weird right now? I
Speaker 3: don't know, because I'll just be honest. I am not
Speaker 3: cool as a cucumber, Josh.
Speaker 1: Really, your heart's beating fast knowing that.
Speaker 2: A little it's not like it's I think it's anticipation, Okay.
Speaker 2: I think once we talk about it and see it,
Speaker 2: I'll calm down a little bit. But I have to
Speaker 2: be honest at my heart rate is well a little.
Speaker 1: Why Josh's heart is palpating is because within about two
Speaker 1: feet of him is a in.
Speaker 2: A bucket two feet on either side.
Speaker 1: Is that a tell us what that is? Brad?
Speaker 4: This is a timber rettlesnake, and that is a Western
Speaker 4: diamondback rettle snake.
Speaker 1: There in five gallon They look like snake. Well, the
Speaker 1: depot buckets, but it's a but it's a lid that
Speaker 1: is made for an animal. Looks like it's got holes
Speaker 1: in it. We got a bunch of snakes in here.
Speaker 1: We've got a diamondback, a timber rattler, and a Teastern
Speaker 1: indigo snak. Which one do you want to show us first?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. We want to show him right now?
Speaker 2: Should we introduce?
Speaker 1: Okay man, I'm just so excited. We've got no mystery guest. Guys.
Speaker 1: Mystery guests is over. This is Brad Birchfield. Brad is uh.
Speaker 3: He's really sorry, Brad, that was the lame introd.
Speaker 1: Doesn't need an he doesn't need a fancy mystery intro.
Speaker 1: I have Josh land bridge Fieldmaker, Bear John nukeomb here
Speaker 1: Bush Whack to Turkey this week mistery Newcomb, who is
Speaker 1: very scared over here, and then her guests of Brad
Speaker 1: Birchfield for those for those who are anticipating this render,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the cobra scare, but we're
Speaker 1: going to have our own cobra scare today. We have
Speaker 1: lots of snakes in here.
Speaker 2: Brad.
Speaker 1: How long you been into snakes man?
Speaker 2: Ever?
Speaker 4: Since I was a small child, like I would say,
Speaker 4: my earliest memory is probably about four four years old,
Speaker 4: just being really obsessed. I was into dinosaurs as a child,
Speaker 4: a lot of snakes.
Speaker 2: We have a dinosaur I did.
Speaker 4: My dad built me a dinosaur in my backyard, twelve
Speaker 4: foot tall and still there. Yeah, my dad built the
Speaker 4: dinosaurs in the city of mountain.
Speaker 1: Berg, you know those big giant dinosaurs in the city
Speaker 1: of mountain Burg here in Arkansas.
Speaker 4: So my father built those due to my obsession with reptiles.
Speaker 4: But you know, wow, that was back in the seventies
Speaker 4: when there was just books and like, you couldn't find
Speaker 4: real dinosaurs, but you could find reptiles, and so it
Speaker 4: was kind of easy transition into snakes, I guess.
Speaker 1: But Brad, you are I don't know you real well,
Speaker 1: but you're the most normal snake guy.
Speaker 2: I would agree. I appreciate that. Yes, yes, world, you do.
Speaker 4: Tend to run into some extreme personalities.
Speaker 2: Snake yes people and big cat people.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they're kind of in the same category, you think, so, Brad, Oh,
Speaker 1: absolutely do you have any big cats? Never wanted on desire.
Speaker 4: But a funny side note, I was watching The Tiger
Speaker 4: King or whatever when and the first episode there's actually
Speaker 4: a guy I knew that was on there.
Speaker 1: So wow, so small world. Now you're you're you're not
Speaker 1: How how do you classify your stuf because you're not
Speaker 1: a You're not a like an academic herpetologist.
Speaker 4: My degree is in journalism. Uh, but I just have
Speaker 4: become obsessed with snakes as a small child and just
Speaker 4: studied them and was just fascinated with them. And I
Speaker 4: probably should have went to college. They said to go
Speaker 4: to college for what you're passionate about, and I'm like,
Speaker 4: I don't know, because now I think if I went
Speaker 4: snak up and never day, I'd probably get bored with
Speaker 4: it and hate it.
Speaker 2: You know. So what do you do?
Speaker 1: So you have pet snakes, but you also catch snakes?
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I do a lot of we would call
Speaker 4: a herpticulturist I believe is the correct terminology, and that's
Speaker 4: someone who's in that world. But it's not a scientific
Speaker 4: a degree scientist. It does stuff. But we me and
Speaker 4: some friends.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's your title, Yes, a herbiculturists.
Speaker 6: Man, that's a good time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to spell too.
Speaker 4: Get business cards, but yeah, we run with a lot
Speaker 4: of people with degrees in biology and stuff like that.
Speaker 4: We just do it for fun. But I do a
Speaker 4: lot of educational programs for Boy Scouts and you know,
Speaker 4: nature centers, game and fish nature centers and stuff like that.
Speaker 4: And it's just kind of been a function of having
Speaker 4: you know, forty something snakes at your house and your
Speaker 4: wife says, why do you need these snakes? And I said, well,
Speaker 4: it's for education. I want to show these two kids
Speaker 4: and stuff.
Speaker 1: And she's like, oh, he's a philanthropist thus far.
Speaker 3: Okay, Can I ask a follow up question? How how'd
Speaker 3: you sell that to your wife? I mean at some
Speaker 3: point she wasn't your wife and you had to convince her.
Speaker 4: Funny story. Okay, everything I tell you will be this
Speaker 4: starts with a funny story. Yeah, when we were dating,
Speaker 4: she thought it was very amusing that I like snakes,
Speaker 4: and so on our dates we'd go driving the roads
Speaker 4: at night looking for you know, road cruising for snakes,
Speaker 4: and it was all fun. And then the day we
Speaker 4: got married, that all ended. And I had a couple
Speaker 4: of snakes at that point, which she wasn't real happy with.
Speaker 4: But we had an upstairs bedroom and I kept them
Speaker 4: up there, and they were kind of out of.
Speaker 2: The upstairs bedroom. That seems logical.
Speaker 4: Actually a few got out, but anyway, so after we
Speaker 4: got kids, the snakes got evicted. So I have to
Speaker 4: build a big building in my backyard to house my snakes.
Speaker 4: So I have a separate building now that I keep
Speaker 4: my snakes in, which she didn't realize was going to
Speaker 4: free me up to get more snakes. Yes, now I've
Speaker 4: got like between forty and fifty. I'm not really sure
Speaker 4: what kind of snakes do you have? Just a lot of,
Speaker 4: like say, all the most of the Arkansas species. And
Speaker 4: then I've got some.
Speaker 2: How many Arkansas species are there?
Speaker 4: There are thirty eight species snakes in Arket's a only
Speaker 4: six of them are venomous, okay, but I keep all
Speaker 4: the venomous except a coral snake. I've had coral snakes,
Speaker 4: but they're kind of quirky to keep in captivity. They
Speaker 4: don't do well over time, so I just kind of
Speaker 4: don't worry about them anymore. I've got a rubber one
Speaker 4: that I use in my snake presentations. But I've got
Speaker 4: a lot of like corn snakes and different kinds of
Speaker 4: king snakes. And you've heard of a bull snake. I've
Speaker 4: heard West bull snake. Go for snake. It's kind of
Speaker 4: like the black rat snake of the West. I really
Speaker 4: like that genus. So I've got several of those. And
Speaker 4: then I've only got one exotic snake. It's called a
Speaker 4: Andros Island boa, and there's not much information on them
Speaker 4: on the internet.
Speaker 2: It's really strange.
Speaker 4: But we went to a snake nerd symposium and they
Speaker 4: had a silent auction and my son was about seven,
Speaker 4: and he pulled the old Joey off of friends and
Speaker 4: had bid on everything in the room because he thought
Speaker 4: it was like guess the price. And so as they're
Speaker 4: reading the silent auction winners, I won a pocket knife,
Speaker 4: a thermometer, and then the snake and I won. I
Speaker 4: didn't want it. Yeah, Sig ended up with the snakes
Speaker 4: that's the only non native snake. I don't really get
Speaker 4: any exotics.
Speaker 1: So you never owned a cobra?
Speaker 4: No, No, I have a friend that has had cobra's
Speaker 4: and I've messed with them, and it's just not my thing.
Speaker 4: They're very quirky, very easily agitated, very intimidating. There's kind
Speaker 4: of like super fast and just you know, most of
Speaker 4: the native snakes are all pretty chill and you can
Speaker 4: kind of read their body language. Cobras are kind of
Speaker 4: on another plane.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, my first question, so the main reason I wanted
Speaker 1: you to come today was how do I get a cobra? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm I am going to I'm going to own a cobra.
Speaker 4: So that is an odd thing since the Internet. I mean,
Speaker 4: there are places that sell all sorts of nasty, venous snakes.
Speaker 4: Like you can order a black Mambo, you can order
Speaker 4: a gabooon viper cobra's if you've got a credit card.
Speaker 4: Do they just show up in the mail? Now, you
Speaker 4: have to ship at Delta Dash. It's got to be
Speaker 4: picked up at the airport and dropped off the airport.
Speaker 4: And I mean there's some you.
Speaker 1: Know, so the regulations here are pretty loose.
Speaker 4: Compared to some other states. Yeah, so five years ago
Speaker 4: in Arkansas it was the wild West. There were really
Speaker 4: no laws on snakes. Really, you could have anything. Nobody cared.
Speaker 4: And then Game and Fish came up with a proposal
Speaker 4: to kind of regulate it and make you buy permit
Speaker 4: and you have to if you're keeping inless snakes, you're
Speaker 4: supposed to have a finleans keeper permit that you have
Speaker 4: to you know, meet some criteria. And then I think
Speaker 4: seventy five dollars a year and then.
Speaker 1: Any venomous snake. Yeah, okay, seventy five bucks a year. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not a problem.
Speaker 2: No, that's what I'm saying. It's a bargain.
Speaker 6: But you're not getting a cobra.
Speaker 1: Come on, how cool would it be? No, I commemorate
Speaker 1: the Cobra Scare podcast, and well almost cobra.
Speaker 2: We'll put the cobra in the Burgers Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll put a cobra emblem on the burgaryse logo.
Speaker 3: Thereah, I just think about how often his mules get out,
Speaker 3: and like how challenging that is to handle.
Speaker 6: And now I'm going to have a snake while he's gone.
Speaker 1: No, So Brad, the uh so you have forty snakes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: forty is and uh, tell me about when you're going
Speaker 1: out into the wild. And first of all, let me
Speaker 1: just make clear Brad is not He doesn't sell snakes.
Speaker 1: He doesn't like catch him and kill him like Brad is.
Speaker 1: So Bear picked up a road kill copperhead that I
Speaker 1: put on my Instagram story this week when he killed
Speaker 1: his turkey. It was a copper head with its head
Speaker 1: cut off, which to those of us like me and
Speaker 1: Brad that love snakes, that's in you know, you just
Speaker 1: don't kill snakes anymore. Yeah, it probably Bear just when
Speaker 1: he put in his truck after it, he was already dead.
Speaker 1: They ran over it and pretty much, I just I'm
Speaker 1: not going to use the head. And so Brad was like,
Speaker 1: I was glad that that was a road kill. And
Speaker 1: so I want to just clarify Brad's not killing snakes.
Speaker 1: He would be the last person in the world to
Speaker 1: kill a snake. But you do go out into the
Speaker 1: wild and catch snakes, ye tell me, Like, what do
Speaker 1: you do? Like if me and you were to go
Speaker 1: out this Saturday just to have a big time, what
Speaker 1: will we.
Speaker 4: Do well this time of year? You know, it's like, honey,
Speaker 4: there's all these seasonal things. So right now is a
Speaker 4: good time to flip artificial cover like ten trash boards.
Speaker 4: So if you can find an old collapse barn or
Speaker 4: an old chicken house, that's where there's gonna be snakes
Speaker 4: in that, yep, And you flip that tin and you'll
Speaker 4: find stuff under there because the tin heats up. Snakes
Speaker 4: get under there in the night when it's cool, and
Speaker 4: then it heats up quicker and then they can go
Speaker 4: out and forage. They get energy from that. But that
Speaker 4: and flipping rocks, you know.
Speaker 1: So you'll go out and just you're just like, hey,
Speaker 1: we're gonna try to find a snake today. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: you find a snake every time you go.
Speaker 4: Yeah, pretty much. I don't get skunked a lot. But
Speaker 4: you know, depends on what species. Some things are harder
Speaker 4: to find than others.
Speaker 1: So what if I told you that I wanted to
Speaker 1: see a big timber rattlesnake. I'm not asking you where
Speaker 1: we would go, but what would we do.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we'd probably find a like a south or southwest
Speaker 4: facing slope, a lot of rocks, some open canopy because
Speaker 4: they like, you know, to regulate between the shade and
Speaker 4: the sun to regulate their temperature. And it's pretty predictable
Speaker 4: once you kind of figure out, you know, connect the dots.
Speaker 1: Really, so it's the habitat.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this is yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: We could find one for real right today?
Speaker 2: Yeah, for real. Is there a certain time of the
Speaker 2: day that they're more prone to be in the afternoon?
Speaker 4: I mean it all depends on temperature, you know, night, No, Now,
Speaker 4: once it gets summertime, it gets too hot. Something that
Speaker 4: people don't realize a lot of times is snakes are
Speaker 4: not very heat tolerant, just like they're not very cold tolerant.
Speaker 4: So in the wintertime, you know, snakes is too cold.
Speaker 4: In the summertime, you won't have snakes out crawling because
Speaker 4: it's too hot. So they go up under your porch
Speaker 4: and they wait till dark and then they come back
Speaker 4: out and they go tonight. So if you ask that
Speaker 4: question in mid June or July, I'd say, we're not
Speaker 4: gonna find anything out in the woods to day, So
Speaker 4: we'll just wait till tonight and then drive some roads
Speaker 4: and you'll find.
Speaker 1: Why are you finding snakes on roads?
Speaker 2: It's just transitional areas they're crossing it's not.
Speaker 1: I used to think that they would come up on
Speaker 1: the blacktop to gather heat doing cool nights. So that's
Speaker 1: a thing that's true.
Speaker 2: That's absolutely true, because we did.
Speaker 1: The same thing. We used to catch a lot of
Speaker 1: snakes on roads, on blacktop roads. But I always wondered
Speaker 1: if that was really true, or if that's just if
Speaker 1: you drive thirty miles a road, you're gonna just random
Speaker 1: chance the snake's just gonna be crossing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, especially pitt vipers, because like say, when it cools off,
Speaker 4: you know, they're ectothermic, which means they're the same temperature
Speaker 4: as the air, and so once it gets cool that
Speaker 4: the road surfaces like a battery charger for all practical purposes,
Speaker 4: they get on that and sit for a while, absorb
Speaker 4: that heat, and then they've got more energy to you know,
Speaker 4: forage and look for food in the night or reproduce
Speaker 4: or whatever.
Speaker 1: Now this is a dumb question, but you knew that
Speaker 1: you could have a round eyed venomous snake.
Speaker 4: Well I was gonna say that was I don't know
Speaker 4: that guy, but he's right in a certain perspective. So
Speaker 4: venomous snakes, all the pit vipers have elliptical pupils like
Speaker 4: a cat eyes. Everybody thinks that that's one hundred pcent true.
Speaker 4: The problem is in low light, their pupils expand just
Speaker 4: like ours do. So if you come up on a
Speaker 4: copperhead at night and you hit him with a light,
Speaker 4: his his eyes won't look like a slit, they'll look
Speaker 4: round because his pupils vlated and so. So technically what
Speaker 4: he said, you know, it's true. But now coral snakes
Speaker 4: are the only venomous snake with a round pupil. They
Speaker 4: truly have a round pupil all the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they're daytime hunters.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, But like I say, all the pit vipers,
Speaker 4: they're going to have elliptical pupils unless they've been out
Speaker 4: in the dark and their eyes have dilated and they
Speaker 4: can see better.
Speaker 2: Have you ever come across a coral snake?
Speaker 1: Never seen a coral snake? I've seen that that false
Speaker 1: coral snake. That's a king snake.
Speaker 4: What is that a milk snake? Yeah, then there's a
Speaker 4: scarlet king snake.
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen a coral snake in the wild
Speaker 1: in Arkansas?
Speaker 4: Not in Arkansas?
Speaker 1: There's they are supposed to be here.
Speaker 4: They are.
Speaker 1: Do you think they really are on? Yeah, well, why
Speaker 1: hadn't you found thee.
Speaker 4: It's they have very specific conditions. Coral snakes really weird.
Speaker 4: They call them fossisorial snakes, which means they stay under leaf,
Speaker 4: litter and cover. And the reason we don't have them
Speaker 4: up here in the Ozarks the washtalls is the ground's
Speaker 4: too hard down in South Arkansas between Texas, Canna, Camden, Eldorado,
Speaker 4: there's a rough triangle there that's that piny woods habitat
Speaker 4: with the soft sandy soil. That's what they like. So
Speaker 4: that's the only part of ours. So you can find
Speaker 4: it there. But they're so reclusive they stay under the cover.
Speaker 4: The only time you'll really find them. The best time
Speaker 4: to find coral snakes is after a hard rain, like
Speaker 4: if you have a really hard rain. Now, yep, the
Speaker 4: ground gets wet and they come up and they'll be
Speaker 4: on the surface. But most of the time you've got.
Speaker 1: So they're not in the mountains, they're not in the highlands.
Speaker 4: Nope, just that very limited range in southern Arkansas.
Speaker 1: What do you make of these these what appears to
Speaker 1: us to be an imitator snake, like a snake that
Speaker 1: is mimicking another snake. Like, so, Misty, there's the coral
Speaker 1: snake is a it's a it's a beautiful snake, black,
Speaker 1: red and yellow striped snake. I mean it looks like
Speaker 1: something your kid would draw when they were two years old. Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, it looks like a cartoon. Well, the coral
Speaker 1: snake has a certain pattern. Red touch yellow kill a
Speaker 1: fellow red touch black, friend of jack. So we were
Speaker 1: taught that. Because so when you when you when you
Speaker 1: see this snake, if red touch is yellow, it's a
Speaker 1: coral snake. If red touch is black, it's an animal.
Speaker 4: It's a milk snake.
Speaker 1: It's a milk snake in Arkansas. So anyway, why do
Speaker 1: they do you think they they did the milk snake?
Speaker 1: Had that happen? Well, you know, ready to go.
Speaker 6: Take us into the psychology of the snake.
Speaker 4: A guy wrote a paper on this and I've never
Speaker 4: read it, but he talked about why is there I
Speaker 4: like the way you do signs, Bud, I got to
Speaker 4: that yet, coral snak mimicry because milk snakes occur basically
Speaker 4: from here, you know, from the Gulf coast to Michigan,
Speaker 4: all the way to the East coast and then some
Speaker 4: some out west where there's never been coral snakes historically,
Speaker 4: So why would there be a mimic in an area
Speaker 4: where coral snakes never occurred. And you know, it's sort
Speaker 4: of like all non venous snakes when they get agitated,
Speaker 4: will rattle their tail to make you think it's a rattlesnake.
Speaker 4: It's kind of a warning, and you know it's like
Speaker 4: it's odd, you know, like the hog no snake flares
Speaker 4: its head out like a cobra. Yeah, but there are
Speaker 4: no cobras in the New World. Those are all far
Speaker 4: East snakes, so well until.
Speaker 1: Springfield, yes, and mister Fred, yeah, he probably.
Speaker 4: Let there's a lot of those things that. Yeah, it's
Speaker 4: very interesting and uh, I don't know what the answer is.
Speaker 1: Okay, good as long as I know you don't know
Speaker 1: the answer, and just.
Speaker 4: Like I just tell you, yeah, okay, the uh you know,
Speaker 4: it is interesting though that you know, bright colors in
Speaker 4: nature mean danger, and so obviously that's why the coral
Speaker 4: snake probably has bright red colors the worn it would
Speaker 4: be predator. But yeah, and like I say, milksnakes use
Speaker 4: the same defense for it would be predator because they
Speaker 4: said that bright color and anything. I need to leave
Speaker 4: this alone.
Speaker 2: Really. Clay and I were hunting on Wednesday and I
Speaker 2: walked around this little pond and nearly stepped on top
Speaker 2: of a gigantic moccasin.
Speaker 4: Are we sure it was a water moccasin?
Speaker 2: Of course we were. All snakes are scary and water
Speaker 2: water is a cotton mouth.
Speaker 1: Yes, I can verify. I got I didn't get a
Speaker 1: great look at it, but it was.
Speaker 2: It was. It was.
Speaker 1: It was as he says, it was a big It
Speaker 1: wasn't that big, Josh, probably a subway sandwich. That's not true.
Speaker 2: It was. I mean he was that big in the
Speaker 2: middle and it darted off. No, he it he jumped
Speaker 2: as I jumped. Yeah, and then he went under leaves,
Speaker 2: and then.
Speaker 4: It's probably not a cotton I will come on.
Speaker 1: I would bet my truck on it. It was, okay,
Speaker 1: I might trust your opinion. I really think it was.
Speaker 1: I just he yelled and jumped, and I looked, and
Speaker 1: where we were at it was a wild place. It
Speaker 1: was way up on top of a mountain, a small
Speaker 1: little pool. It was a weird place to see one.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't abandoned water snake. It was it was.
Speaker 1: It was like that solid uh And I know moccasin
Speaker 1: has a pattern, but sometimes they look solid. I feel
Speaker 1: like it was.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, cotton mouse has such a I refer
Speaker 4: to it as an undeserved reputation of being aggressive. But
Speaker 4: they're just very assertive. They're very sure.
Speaker 2: I like, walk up on one.
Speaker 4: A cotton mouth will usually not take off. It will
Speaker 4: coil up and gape its mouth and just kind of
Speaker 4: warn you. But he did not dart off.
Speaker 2: He kind of just.
Speaker 1: Well it, yeah he did.
Speaker 2: He did leave. Yeah, he did leave.
Speaker 1: He was right by his hole though, like he because
Speaker 1: he just disappeared into like a little roote.
Speaker 2: We look for him.
Speaker 4: It doesn't sound like cotton mouth behavior.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna believe that it was a cotton mouth.
Speaker 2: That my life was indane.
Speaker 1: The way Josh screamed like a woman, Yeah, yeah, that
Speaker 1: is not a good indicator.
Speaker 4: There are very few absolutes in the snake world. And
Speaker 4: I get tickled at our snake programs because everybody wants
Speaker 4: to know that one thing that's you know, fool proof,
Speaker 4: that's the one hundred percent, And there's very few things
Speaker 4: in the stup world that are like that.
Speaker 2: Is there a certain snake that you're like, man, I'd
Speaker 2: really like to find. Oh yeah, there's a list.
Speaker 4: So the top of the Me and a buddy started
Speaker 4: about fifteen years ago wanting to find all the venomous
Speaker 4: snakes in North America. And we're down to.
Speaker 2: Two and one.
Speaker 1: Really you've found all but two? Yeah, hey, uh, I
Speaker 1: don't want to break your your Your rocker is kind
Speaker 1: of touching that snake that.
Speaker 4: Might be he's making noises. Okay, I'll quit rocking.
Speaker 1: So Brad is in a rocking chair and his uh
Speaker 1: one of his very large snakes that's in a white
Speaker 1: like linen bag. Forward, Bear, touch that snake and move it.
Speaker 1: Bear's not afraid of it.
Speaker 2: Just yanked all the way there. There we go.
Speaker 1: Good job Bear.
Speaker 4: But yeah, what were we talking about the venomous caught?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah yeah yeah. So we're on this quest to
Speaker 4: catch all the venomus snakes on the back and all
Speaker 4: we do it's basically like my hobby is like birding.
Speaker 4: You know, people go out all these play similar to
Speaker 4: take a picture, except the birds can kill you. But
Speaker 4: uh so we sat on this quest and there's one
Speaker 4: little montane rattlesnake that occurs in the kind of the
Speaker 4: Boothill section of New Mexico, and it's a Mexican species,
Speaker 4: but it only ranges in the US right there, and
Speaker 4: that's like the yeah, we haven't gotten that one yet,
Speaker 4: and there are very few there, and it's a fairly
Speaker 4: sketchy area to go to because of the illegal stuff
Speaker 4: on the border. And then the other is a subspecies
Speaker 4: of one that science has kind.
Speaker 2: Of did away with.
Speaker 4: But we're we're old, we're clinging to the old ways.
Speaker 4: Is that's called a desert Massissauga.
Speaker 1: Where they live, they.
Speaker 2: Have a really spotty distribution.
Speaker 4: They they're on the coast of Texas, like Brownsville up
Speaker 4: to where's the spring Break place, Padre Island, Padre Island,
Speaker 4: down to Brownsville they occur, and then in West Texas
Speaker 4: they're kind of spotty, and then in Colorado and then
Speaker 4: New Mexico and in Arizona. But they're not just like
Speaker 4: a wide ranging they're very spotty distributions, and science interesting
Speaker 4: kind of doesn't recognize it now. They just call it
Speaker 4: all a western Massissauga, which I found the western Massissauga
Speaker 4: just not the desert. Wow.
Speaker 1: So, okay, have you been bit by a venomous snake
Speaker 1: now envenomed, never had not yet.
Speaker 4: No, Okay, pretty uh, pretty dangerous, you know, deal, And
Speaker 4: you know we understand the the what you know, the
Speaker 4: risk and and you know we're prepared for that because
Speaker 4: if you play with fire long enough, you're probably gonna
Speaker 4: get burnt.
Speaker 1: But what's your what's your take on a guy like
Speaker 1: mister Fred that's been bit so many times and doesn't
Speaker 1: like I've gotta I've gotta tell the well, let me
Speaker 1: tell the rest of the story. I have a recording
Speaker 1: of Fred telling what he did after he got bit
Speaker 1: by that banded Egyptian cobra. Oh yeah, I considered playing it.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like gold to me, his story. But
Speaker 1: he was a young man, So let me tell that story.
Speaker 2: Oh, we got a new microwave. I got a microwave
Speaker 2: and it still keeps.
Speaker 1: We thought we had that fix. Turns out what we
Speaker 1: thought was beabing and it wasn't beeping. Mister Fred, when
Speaker 1: he got bit by that banded Egyptian cobra bitting him
Speaker 1: right on the hand and got him good, he had to.
Speaker 1: He had to put his foot on the snake and
Speaker 1: pull the cobra off of him. He he tells the
Speaker 1: story of how he finishes doing what he was doing,
Speaker 1: like he was working on something and he finished working
Speaker 1: on it, and then he told the girl that was there, like, hey,
Speaker 1: keep running this place. I'm going to run down to
Speaker 1: the hospital.
Speaker 2: He drove himself to the hospital.
Speaker 1: His wife was with him. But when he gets bit,
Speaker 1: he doesn't check into the hospital because when he was young,
Speaker 1: the first time that he was in venomed by a snake,
Speaker 1: when he was fourteen, he a went into anaphylactic shock
Speaker 1: and nearly died from because of the medicine, And so
Speaker 1: he wants to be close to the hospital in case
Speaker 1: he starts to die, but he doesn't want to check
Speaker 1: himself in. Well, how do you think hospitals feel about that?
Speaker 1: Not great, they don't. They're not real cool on it.
Speaker 1: So he goes into the waiting room and is sitting there,
Speaker 1: and you know, he's holding his arm and he said
Speaker 1: it swelled up to about his elbow, but not that bad,
Speaker 1: no pain. But he said his throat started to close up.
Speaker 1: Whatever kind of venom it would be in a cobra,
Speaker 1: his throat started to close up and he started having
Speaker 1: a hard time breeze and and he was, but but
Speaker 1: his arm just just swelled up. And long story short,
Speaker 1: as I understand that the hospital got word that this
Speaker 1: guy had been bit by a cobra and was like
Speaker 1: waiting it out, and they weren't going to have it,
Speaker 1: And so they bring a kind of a crew of
Speaker 1: people out to kind of like and and Fred, granted,
Speaker 1: is a he's a carneye. I mean like he's a.
Speaker 2: He's a side show. Yeah.
Speaker 1: That's not a bad word.
Speaker 2: Is it.
Speaker 6: I don't I don't think it's one that we say.
Speaker 1: Carnival. He worked at a carnival. I think it's a word.
Speaker 1: I've heard him say. He does it, he mister Fred there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Take that's a legitimate job.
Speaker 6: Take where I said it's a bad word out.
Speaker 1: No, it's an honorable, honorable trade. Bear you should look
Speaker 1: into getting into the carnival son. And basically he stands
Speaker 1: up to greet the doctor. He sees what's about to happen,
Speaker 1: and he shoots out.
Speaker 2: The door and he's dalling wiry.
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's dark outside, and he runs into the
Speaker 1: woods and and basically runs away and hides. They call
Speaker 1: the police and and there's this man hunt for Fred
Speaker 1: in this town and they're looking for him all night,
Speaker 1: and he sees flashlights and he's down in this little
Speaker 1: ravine and finally he walks out the other side of
Speaker 1: the ravine and it's been like six hours and he's
Speaker 1: fine and he yeah, he's feeling better. And so he
Speaker 1: decides he's gonna walk back to to the snake display
Speaker 1: at the carnival and so he but he knows they're
Speaker 1: looking for him, and he said he wanted to look normal,
Speaker 1: so he went into a Dollar General and bought some
Speaker 1: stuff and carried it in a Dollar General sack, just
Speaker 1: so that he would have like, he just have something
Speaker 1: to do rather than just walking down the road.
Speaker 2: He just have it. Well.
Speaker 1: Well, when he gets back to the carnival, basically the
Speaker 1: carnival owner is like like, just like, I don't know
Speaker 1: if he physically grabbed him, but like they made him
Speaker 1: go back to the hospital and he was like, I'm
Speaker 1: fine and they didn't do anything to him. So anyway,
Speaker 1: he just toughed it out.
Speaker 4: Yeah, wow, that's one way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that recommends.
Speaker 1: But he's he's been bid over twenty times and he's
Speaker 1: only had antivenom twice. That's impressive, is that? I mean,
Speaker 1: is that normal?
Speaker 4: No, No, I wouldn't say it's normal. You know, talking
Speaker 4: about the anphylectic shock used to They derived the anti
Speaker 4: venom from horse serum, they called it, and the antibodies
Speaker 4: and the horse and ours don't get along, and so
Speaker 4: sometimes the reaction to the antivenom was just bad or
Speaker 4: worse than the bite. So that's completely plausible. And then
Speaker 4: after twenty I don't know, you may be building up
Speaker 4: somewhat of a tolerance to the defense.
Speaker 2: You know, just there it is.
Speaker 4: Once again, in this weird world we live in, there
Speaker 4: are people that self and ventomate, and they do it
Speaker 4: very carefully, build up a tall build up tolerance. Because
Speaker 4: he actually mentioned Bill Host.
Speaker 1: Did you know that name?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's like.
Speaker 4: The mount Rushing.
Speaker 1: He actually like I should have known it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was surprised you didn't get a little disappointed
Speaker 4: at me. He has a kind of a roadside attraction
Speaker 4: in Florida. For fifty years it was a snake reptile
Speaker 4: gardens and he had been bitting on hundred I think
Speaker 4: it's one hundred and sixty or one hundred and sixty eight
Speaker 4: times by lies banded crates. King Kobra's like real bad stuff,
Speaker 4: and he got to the point where he could just
Speaker 4: stave it off. Wasn't a big deal, and they got
Speaker 4: blood transfusion from him to save other people's lives because
Speaker 4: he had built up his antibodies.
Speaker 1: So that's that was Bill.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 6: That is crazy.
Speaker 2: My dad.
Speaker 1: One time, I wish Dad was here. You probably know
Speaker 1: this guy. I'm not gonna say his name. He watched
Speaker 1: a guy get bit by a copperhead kind of a
Speaker 1: kind of an animal snake guy.
Speaker 4: And I think I know exactly who you're talking.
Speaker 2: Well, Dad, I.
Speaker 1: Mean I don't. I don't know if I would have
Speaker 1: believed it, if somebody else would have. But Dad was like, Claire,
Speaker 1: I mean, he reached down there and that snake just
Speaker 1: nailed him right in the hand. And this guy didn't
Speaker 1: even acknowledge it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like he wasn't.
Speaker 1: I don't remember the exact circum circumstance. It's been fifteen
Speaker 1: years since I've heard the story. And Dad said, did
Speaker 1: that snake just bute you? And he, you know, almost
Speaker 1: as if the question was offensive to him. He was
Speaker 1: like yeah, And I was like, okay, all right, well
Speaker 1: let's let's go anyway. I don't undert I don't understand.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's not a good plan.
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 4: We tell people the best snake bite kit, you know,
Speaker 4: they make these things you can still buy supporting good stores.
Speaker 4: It's got a nice little surgery kit with section cups
Speaker 4: and a razor, and it's kind of like.
Speaker 1: Wait, is that the way to go though?
Speaker 2: No, so what do you what?
Speaker 1: What? What do you carry in the field for.
Speaker 4: A cell phone and a set of car keys by
Speaker 4: far the best.
Speaker 1: There's nothing, you can do nothing.
Speaker 4: The only thing that will treat snake bite is anti
Speaker 4: venom and that some people always say, do you take
Speaker 4: that with you have it at your house or the thing? No,
Speaker 4: it's something that's got to be kept under you know,
Speaker 4: really controlled conditions. Then it's got to be diluted in
Speaker 4: saline and injected. It's not something you can just.
Speaker 2: Have it up with.
Speaker 4: Yeah I wish it was, but yeah, so it's uh yeah,
Speaker 4: the only the only option is to get to a hospital.
Speaker 1: So, okay, you're in the woods, you're back a mile
Speaker 1: and a half, you get bit by timberrelllsnake.
Speaker 2: What do you do? Uh?
Speaker 4: The first thing be try to stay calm, which would
Speaker 4: probably be hard, and then uh, you know, walk as
Speaker 4: fast as you could without getting winded back to a
Speaker 4: vehicle and get get you know, to a hospital.
Speaker 1: It's just that simple.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it really is. I mean, because, like I say,
Speaker 4: there's really nothing else you can do. Tourniquets are such
Speaker 4: a bad idea because you know the old timers, they'd say,
Speaker 4: put a tourniquet on it and then cut ex's on it.
Speaker 4: Out of a second. Once the venom hits your skin
Speaker 4: and subcutaneous level, it's in your all over. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: if you you know, section that off with a tourniquet,
Speaker 4: you're keeping this venom in there. Well, venom, it's not
Speaker 4: only a poison, it's also a digestive enzyme basically helps
Speaker 4: digest the food at the pit viper's eat. So when
Speaker 4: you pull that venom up in one area and don't
Speaker 4: let it dilate through the body, you.
Speaker 1: Know it's gonna it's it's gonna be terrible worse.
Speaker 4: So yeah, basically, if you're three four hours from medical
Speaker 4: tension that's life threatening problem, then you're probably gonna need
Speaker 4: a helicopter or something, you know.
Speaker 1: Call your buddy with a chopper.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it could get serious real quick. But you know
Speaker 4: if you're within. A friend of ours is doctor Spencer
Speaker 4: Green in Houston, and he's like the the expert and
Speaker 4: snake back in the United States. He's probably treated more
Speaker 4: than anybody, all the other doctors combined. But he always said,
Speaker 4: roughly two hours. You got two hours, you know, really
Speaker 4: two hours, you know, And there's a lot of it
Speaker 4: all for any Let let me clarify though, there's a
Speaker 4: lot of you know, there's a lot of disparity in
Speaker 4: the severity of the bite because sometimes snakes will do
Speaker 4: what's called a dry bite, where it's just kind of
Speaker 4: you annoyed the snake and he's just telling you leave
Speaker 4: me alone, and he doesn't inject any venom. And then,
Speaker 4: like I said, and a snake controlled that, Yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, weren't you paying attention on episode four I did.
Speaker 4: That was clearly covered, but it just I remember that.
Speaker 4: But yeah, they can control the amount of venom. And
Speaker 4: if they're you know, himmed up on your porch by
Speaker 4: Jack Russell Terrier and you get bit, that snake's probably
Speaker 4: gonna sock it to you. Whereas if you're just walking
Speaker 4: out in your yard and flip flock and you actually
Speaker 4: step on one, it may be a dry bite. But
Speaker 4: you know, so there's a lot of variables. But he
Speaker 4: his ballpark was if you're within two hours of emergency
Speaker 4: medical care, you're probably gonna be fine.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: But you know there are exceptions of that.
Speaker 4: If it's a huge snake and you've got a really
Speaker 4: long walk in your Hartket salvator, you know, bad things
Speaker 4: can happen. I think we have roughly six snake bite
Speaker 4: deaths a year in the United States un States, and mostly.
Speaker 1: The trend of what snake is killing people.
Speaker 4: It's Eastern diamondbacks.
Speaker 2: Are the most venomous that we have in the stone.
Speaker 4: Proved an Eastern diamondback. I think it's technically the most dangerous.
Speaker 1: The most the most potent venom Yes.
Speaker 4: But they're in a limited range and you don't see
Speaker 4: them that often Western dimond backs.
Speaker 2: Just to remind everybody, we have one of those in
Speaker 2: a bucket right here.
Speaker 1: We're gonna look at him, We're gonna look at him
Speaker 1: in just a minute. But he can take it. You know.
Speaker 4: That's one of the myths on snake bite is you
Speaker 4: know a lot of people will hear this and be like, oh,
Speaker 4: I've heard that. Uh, baby, snakes can't control the amount
Speaker 4: of venom. If they bite you, they just hit you
Speaker 4: the everything they got and then baby snake's venom is
Speaker 4: like highly refined. It's more dangerous than a big snake.
Speaker 4: That is not the case. That's one of the few
Speaker 4: things that is in stone, and snake bite is a
Speaker 4: bigger snake always is going to be a worst.
Speaker 1: Bite really because the volume of venom.
Speaker 2: And the you know, the hardware.
Speaker 4: If you think about a baby snake is things are
Speaker 4: going to be little and a big snake's on that
Speaker 4: big stronger fans. So there's that's one of the few
Speaker 4: things that is pretty much in stone. It's a bigger
Speaker 4: snakes cut a worse bat.
Speaker 2: Do you have a question, do all snakes have the
Speaker 2: have the the and the the venom is from a
Speaker 2: gland by the fangs or it actually comes through the fangs.
Speaker 4: It comes through the things or like a hyperdiermerent meel.
Speaker 2: Are all snakes that way? No?
Speaker 4: Just okay, So coral snake is in the lapid.
Speaker 1: That's that's like cut like my cobras.
Speaker 4: And unlike the cobra. Well now they're pretty much similar.
Speaker 4: They have fixed front fangs, but they're fairly primitive. That's
Speaker 4: why I don't consider coral snakes that dangerous because they
Speaker 4: have very You have to be really dumb to get
Speaker 4: bit by a coral snake. They have to latch on
Speaker 4: and basically chew until they break the skin, and they
Speaker 4: almost salivate the venom into your system. Interesting, whereas a
Speaker 4: pit viper hits you in the blink of an eye
Speaker 4: and they've being.
Speaker 1: But a cobra when he hits you, he bites onto you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he does show their chewers too, but he gets you
Speaker 1: quick though.
Speaker 4: Yeah. And they have bigger, more well developed fangs than
Speaker 4: like a coral snake.
Speaker 1: That's that's a little spookier that and you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: a pit viprate when he strikes you, I mean it's
Speaker 1: like he's just like punching you. It's like pop pop,
Speaker 1: And then he comes back a cobra when he hits you,
Speaker 1: like he's gonna yeah, even if he isn't trying to
Speaker 1: eat you, because like if you got a bit by cobra,
Speaker 1: like he knows he's not he's not striking to eat you, right,
Speaker 1: he still would latch onto you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's trying to intimate you.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's risky.
Speaker 6: I have I've got I've got a couple of good snake.
Speaker 2: Stories, good snake stories.
Speaker 3: I have good snake stories. And one I have a
Speaker 3: question about that. Maybe maybe he can answer. Do we
Speaker 3: have time for snake stories?
Speaker 2: Okay, okay?
Speaker 6: First story.
Speaker 3: When our kids were little, probably like seven, Bear was
Speaker 3: probably seven, Josh's son was probably nine or ten. We
Speaker 3: would go on hikes and hit Josh's Josh Bilmaker's wife, Christy,
Speaker 3: and I would go with all of our kids, and
Speaker 3: so together we had like seven kids together, all a
Speaker 3: pa a pascle of kids. So one day we were
Speaker 3: out on a on a hike. I remember Shep was
Speaker 3: five because he had just gotten his tubes out of
Speaker 3: his ear. And we were out there hiking and we
Speaker 3: were on some big underneath some big bluffs, and these
Speaker 3: snakes literally just start coming off the bluff.
Speaker 2: Do you remember this, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And they just and and David, David was probably nine,
Speaker 3: and he screamed snakes and it's like these snakes are
Speaker 3: raining from the heavens and we all start screaming, and
Speaker 3: Christy grabs Shepherd so tight, and.
Speaker 2: I believe the words that came out of your mouth
Speaker 2: were plural. Oh yeah, I think.
Speaker 3: I just say, yeah, I think I think you.
Speaker 6: For some reason I got into the grammar of it.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, and then they kind of went away, and
Speaker 3: all of us were just like, what just happened?
Speaker 1: How many snakes?
Speaker 2: Do you think? So too?
Speaker 3: There were two, but it felt like snake's ray for
Speaker 3: the heaven. And Christie let go of Shepherd and He's
Speaker 3: just like, screwy.
Speaker 6: Because and Christy said, who was I holding?
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. I'm like pretty sure was That's a
Speaker 2: response my wife has when she sees a snake on
Speaker 2: a movie.
Speaker 1: I wish you could have been here today.
Speaker 2: She would not have done it. Yeah, well, so were
Speaker 2: they racing?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: Were they What were the.
Speaker 2: Numbers on top of their That's hard to.
Speaker 4: Guess, would be that might be some sort of den
Speaker 4: hybernaculum and they were coming out and gravity took hold
Speaker 4: and or you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah they were if I remember it right, of course,
Speaker 1: I was like seven. But there were like a lot
Speaker 1: of holes and they were like going in and out
Speaker 1: of the holes whenever they got down on the ground.
Speaker 1: That look like more than ones.
Speaker 2: So there are definitely two, but.
Speaker 1: Plural okay, okay, plural? Can we I want to see
Speaker 1: these snakes. Can we get one out? Well, I mean
Speaker 1: you tell me, you tell me. If it's not a
Speaker 1: good idea.
Speaker 4: We can know we can certainly get them out.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I brought them. I need you to
Speaker 1: stay miked up though, that's the problem. Okay, wait, what
Speaker 1: if what if we we cleared out you a space
Speaker 1: right here? We can do that here, Misty, you should
Speaker 1: need no just stand up and back up, bear, back up,
Speaker 1: Josh to come over here. I just want to I
Speaker 1: just want to see one.
Speaker 2: So so I think I'll take this off.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't want you to try not to yell.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I need the the other one.
Speaker 1: This is uh, Brad, you are gonna make your Can
Speaker 1: you have me my phone right there? Yes, sir, you're
Speaker 1: gonna make a name. You're gonna be on the legendary
Speaker 1: list of render participants by bringing by default. Oh my,
Speaker 1: look at that bad boy.
Speaker 2: I'll get it out.
Speaker 4: You'll have to come closer, okay, Oh my lord. Sometimes
Speaker 4: he gets a little excited if he strikes.
Speaker 2: And you found this, yea, is this a snake that
Speaker 2: you found, Brad? Yeah?
Speaker 4: This is a local animal.
Speaker 1: Is it really?
Speaker 2: Holy smokes?
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4: What's interesting is here in Arkansas and eastern Oklahoma, these
Speaker 4: get really large. Now out west, when you see diamondbacks,
Speaker 4: they're kind of long and spinley, kind of oh, just
Speaker 4: not big and thick like this, But in the range
Speaker 4: here in Arkansas and Oklahoma, they get really large.
Speaker 1: Now is he Is he a little more docile because
Speaker 1: you've messed with him?
Speaker 4: Now, if I got close, she would see a definite
Speaker 4: change in his So he's not like friendly.
Speaker 1: Huh, No, good thing I'm wearing my See, look at
Speaker 1: the boots I'm wearing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's probably a good thing.
Speaker 1: Wow, hey, big boy.
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's easier to control him just by holding him
Speaker 4: like this. So the curious thing about these is, like
Speaker 4: I say, most of the deaths from rattlesnakes the United
Speaker 4: States come from this species, and it's because they have
Speaker 4: a huge range. They're all the Southwest, and they're pretty
Speaker 4: quick to get upset and bite and see that head.
Speaker 4: I think the lethal dose for an adult human would
Speaker 4: be like one hundred and fifty milligrams of venom, and
Speaker 4: he could probably dose she was about four hundred to
Speaker 4: six hundred.
Speaker 1: Millions, So just like straight up die from that.
Speaker 2: Both.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this could be dangerous.
Speaker 2: But what is that snake? Probably fifty two inches long.
Speaker 4: The last time measured it was seventy seventy.
Speaker 1: How old do you think that snake is?
Speaker 4: This snake is probably twenty five to thirty years old,
Speaker 4: very long lived.
Speaker 1: How long have you had it?
Speaker 4: I've had it for fifteen years and it was this
Speaker 4: big one. I got it.
Speaker 2: Really Yeah, have you had that? Ye oh? Yes?
Speaker 1: How often do you feed him?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 4: In the summertime about once every other week?
Speaker 1: What do you feed him?
Speaker 4: Interesting story there. So when I got this thing, you're
Speaker 4: doing great. It wouldn't eat. And I tried all different
Speaker 4: colors of rats and mice because you order rats and
Speaker 4: mice online they're frozen. And I tried black ones and
Speaker 4: white ones and gray ones, and then I tried live
Speaker 4: ones and he wouldn't have anything to do with it,
Speaker 4: wouldn't eat. And then one day I was driving home
Speaker 4: with my son and there's a big dead gray squirrel
Speaker 4: in her rode in from of her house and I said, hey,
Speaker 4: grab that squirrel and we threw it in the cage
Speaker 4: and he ate it.
Speaker 2: No way.
Speaker 1: Wow, this one was like feeding it old country boy
Speaker 1: a corn dog. So now it was like, this is
Speaker 1: the one I've been waiting for.
Speaker 4: I keep a pellet gun by the door, and every
Speaker 4: time I see a squirrel in the yard.
Speaker 1: So how how often do you feed him?
Speaker 2: Uh? About every other week in the summer?
Speaker 1: Really were Wow?
Speaker 2: What a I would like this to not mean the
Speaker 2: first time that Brad gets bit by.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I'll put that one in there if he'll go.
Speaker 2: Sometimes he has a problem going.
Speaker 1: And now he breaks a lot of his rattles.
Speaker 4: Yes, he is notorious for breaking his rattle. That's why
Speaker 4: he doesn't have a very big one.
Speaker 2: That sound is unnerving. Wow? What to hear this other one?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 1: Okay, wow, good job Brads.
Speaker 2: The closest I've ever been to a rattlesnake that wasn't
Speaker 2: in a cage.
Speaker 4: This is a big timor rattlesnake. This is what old
Speaker 4: timers referred to as a velvet tail.
Speaker 1: Now this is my favorite man.
Speaker 4: Some people call these cambri.
Speaker 1: Is he bigger littler than the other one?
Speaker 2: Well, holy smoke. Girth wise, he's probably a beautiful man.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: Listen, bro, I would like to not get friendly.
Speaker 4: With you, but that one, and if you'll notice, has
Speaker 4: an impressive string of rattles. He's never broken his rattles off.
Speaker 1: Can I do this?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're good, But the demeanor of the tim rattlesninks
Speaker 4: is quite a bit different.
Speaker 1: Than they are. They are, They not as upset.
Speaker 4: They will they will tolerate a lot more.
Speaker 1: Good job, missy, mister put your headset on Misty's back
Speaker 1: in the corner.
Speaker 4: Hand on the man. But yeah, this one's got an
Speaker 4: impressive string of rattles. I think there's like twenty twenty
Speaker 4: six or twenty eight. I can't remember last time I
Speaker 4: count them, but wow, they get Like I say, that's
Speaker 4: about as big as one you'll see in Arkansas. I've
Speaker 4: only found that one.
Speaker 1: Does that send you a video?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: That was that was a He probably.
Speaker 1: Wasn't that big, but it was.
Speaker 4: A big one. Yeah, that was awesome.
Speaker 1: Now I feel like right now that snake like I
Speaker 1: could reach down and touch it, uk you could.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't recommend it, but.
Speaker 1: But he's he's not Could he come from that position
Speaker 1: and hit me right now?
Speaker 4: So that's something I was gonna say. It's interesting about cobras.
Speaker 4: So cobras can basically only strike straight down these guys.
Speaker 4: If I get over here, he's gonna sling back over
Speaker 4: and hit me. Cobras would have to turn around, and
Speaker 4: that's that's one thing that they're a little easier to.
Speaker 2: That snak is probably three three and a half inches
Speaker 2: in diameter, and it's that.
Speaker 1: Part more than that. I bet now he's as big
Speaker 1: a round as a good subway sandwich in the middle.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's definitely that.
Speaker 2: That water moccasin that I almost stepped on is probably three
Speaker 2: times that, is that, right? I really wish you.
Speaker 4: Would have gotten a picture.
Speaker 2: This been the state record.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love now what what he's in a certain
Speaker 1: phase like that the.
Speaker 4: Coloration kind of the blonde phase in Arkansas. Now, he's
Speaker 4: pretty much gonna stay this color. In Arcantel, you get
Speaker 4: some of their kind of gray, have different tones of gray,
Speaker 4: and then you get some that's kind of olive green,
Speaker 4: and then you get this phase which is kind of
Speaker 4: like a blond phase, which is pretty light.
Speaker 1: Now, okay, Brad has critiqued my snake catching. It's not
Speaker 1: good to catch him by the back of the head.
Speaker 4: No why Okay, So right now his fangs are folded
Speaker 4: up in the top of his mouth. If I reach
Speaker 4: down to get him by the neck. Guess where his
Speaker 4: fangs are pointed right into my fingers, and they can
Speaker 4: bite through their bottom jaw. If they get mad enough,
Speaker 4: they'll poke their fans.
Speaker 2: Through their jaw, So that is bad.
Speaker 4: So, like I say, if the best thing is to
Speaker 4: not touch them at all, but if you have to
Speaker 4: the best technique is to like let them stretch out
Speaker 4: and get him by the tail, yeah, and get the
Speaker 4: head going away from you. Yeah, and then you can
Speaker 4: pretty much gently come under the tail and then let's say,
Speaker 4: once they're supported, God, that's big sting.
Speaker 1: Now does he eat squirrels? Uh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he has what does he prefer?
Speaker 4: He will eat lab producing rats and mice.
Speaker 1: So he's not as picky as not a picky.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the diamondback will only eat squirrels and rabbits that
Speaker 4: are not produced in a lab, wild caught, wildcar profound.
Speaker 2: Wow. Can you strike your hand right there?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Not in this position.
Speaker 4: We got gravity working against him. And then, like I say,
Speaker 4: he's using a lot of strength to come back up
Speaker 4: towards me.
Speaker 1: So so if you had him by the back of
Speaker 1: the head right up against his neck, he could still
Speaker 1: like stick his fangs back and hit your hand.
Speaker 4: Yes, really yep, And like I say, that's where your
Speaker 4: fingers are. That's why we don't do that.
Speaker 2: How long have you had this snake?
Speaker 4: This is a retired stud snake from the University of Arkansas.
Speaker 4: Oh really, buddy, Mine was doing research on something with
Speaker 4: timber raddle snakes and he was just up there making
Speaker 4: babies and they were downside of the lab and I said,
Speaker 4: I need a big Was he a wild cot Yeah,
Speaker 4: came from Madison County. That right, Yep. I say, timber
Speaker 4: radlesnakes are a lot more they'll tolerate a lot more
Speaker 4: than the diamondbacks. Because you can see he's pretty much
Speaker 4: just annoyed that I'm holding him. What is the number
Speaker 4: of rattles equate to how many times it sheds a year? Okay,
Speaker 4: so he has a good year and he'll shed two
Speaker 4: or three times, he'll get three or four, you know,
Speaker 4: two three segments on the bottom of his rattle. If
Speaker 4: he has a bad year, like a drought and there's
Speaker 4: not much to eat, then he won't you know, he'll
Speaker 4: just shed once. Now I don't sure what he's doing
Speaker 4: here doing that, but yeah, the you can't age a rattlesnake.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that whole how many rattles, how many years?
Speaker 4: Is just not because, like I say, you think that
Speaker 4: diamondback would have a huge section of rattles, but really doesn't.
Speaker 4: So there's the timber rattlesnake right now, this guy.
Speaker 1: That's probably more along the lines what I need.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a good starter snake. Now, now the irony
Speaker 4: is venom wise. This guy has got a lot more
Speaker 4: different stuff in his venom, whereas the diamondbacks pretty much
Speaker 4: a straight hemotoxin, which is just the venom that.
Speaker 2: Attacks the red blood cells and destroys the cell walls.
Speaker 4: The timberrel snakes got heema tuxin and neural tousin, which
Speaker 4: is what you get in the coral sticks in the cobras.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: So not only does it cause tissue loss and burning
Speaker 4: and all that, it can also like shut your die
Speaker 4: frame down.
Speaker 2: So okay, we're good, All snakes are up.
Speaker 1: We'll look at that one afterwards.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay, all rights.
Speaker 1: Wow, that was that was some good.
Speaker 2: That was good. That was good.
Speaker 1: I wish you all could have seen it. So we
Speaker 1: do need to talk about the Cobra Scare podcast. I
Speaker 1: So I got to give credit to my friend Isaac Neil,
Speaker 1: who told me he he's from Springfield. I wanted him
Speaker 1: on this render but he couldn't come.
Speaker 6: Are they still raddling? Is that what I'm here?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: They're still ling. So Isaac Neil was like, man, there's
Speaker 1: a great story in Springfield. He said, I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's really like a Bear Grease style store, but
Speaker 1: there were some cobras that got loosed the Great Cobra
Speaker 1: Scare of nineteen fifty three. There's a beer in Springfield
Speaker 1: that's named Cobra Scare. And I started researching it and
Speaker 1: I was like, Isaac, this is like big time up
Speaker 1: my alley. And the first two people that I contacted
Speaker 1: were it was Kyle Jeffries at the Mother's Brewery because
Speaker 1: these guys had named a beer Cobra Scare, and then
Speaker 1: he referred me to the museum curator, John Steller's. And
Speaker 1: when I talked to those guys, I was like, this
Speaker 1: is going to be good. And it really was one
Speaker 1: of my favorite podcasts that we've done in a while,
Speaker 1: just because it was so crazy.
Speaker 2: You've had quite the reaction to the video you put
Speaker 2: on Instagram.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, what did you know about that would
Speaker 1: you have known about the cobra scare.
Speaker 4: I heard about that about five years ago, and I
Speaker 4: had never heard it before either what context? Some snake
Speaker 4: person on Facebook had a picture of a to give
Speaker 4: the sheriff holding the dead one there by the car. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it was like, you know, because black and white old,
Speaker 4: It's like, you didn't see many cobras, And I'm like,
Speaker 4: what is this? And I started doing a dig deep
Speaker 4: dive into Google and the next thing you know, I'm like,
Speaker 4: I hadn't no id, I've never heard of.
Speaker 1: This great cobras here fast. What stood out to you
Speaker 1: in that story? Anything stand out to you?
Speaker 2: Just the general.
Speaker 4: Outlook of people and snakes, you know, because in that time,
Speaker 4: you know, totally different time and just everybody being terrified
Speaker 4: and like these things are going to attack us, and
Speaker 4: you know, it's probably wasn't that big a deal. I mean,
Speaker 4: if your kids out playing in the yard and find
Speaker 4: some one, that's obviously bad. But these snakes weren't looking
Speaker 4: for people to bite, you know, They're just trying to
Speaker 4: hide or find food.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you got to give it a little bit
Speaker 1: of credit though. Man, I would I would be spooked
Speaker 1: if they were just like, hey, there's like a bunch
Speaker 1: of cobras out here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you don't know where they come from, and
Speaker 2: you don't know how many there are. Yeah, so there's
Speaker 2: like three or four.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's I bet if that same thing
Speaker 1: happened in any city, it could happen in the country,
Speaker 1: it would be different because people are more spread out
Speaker 1: and the snakes would just kind of like disappear. But
Speaker 1: this happened in right in the middle of downtown Springfield,
Speaker 1: and there was an epicenter and all these snakes were
Speaker 1: like within just like a mile, you know, and so
Speaker 1: they had dispersed from somewhere, and I could see. I
Speaker 1: bet you'd have the same reaction today. Do you think
Speaker 1: probably people just going on lockdown, people getting crazy, people
Speaker 1: trying to do wild stuff, people leaving.
Speaker 5: I mean, I bet people coming, you know. I think
Speaker 5: there's people who Yeah, there'd be yeah, probably yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what uhbing.
Speaker 2: Very hard?
Speaker 1: What stood out to you, Missy from a just whatever
Speaker 1: where you're interested in the snake cobras, the social aspects,
Speaker 1: the motherly aspects of women protecting their their children.
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, I don't think you heard a lot
Speaker 6: of that in the story.
Speaker 2: I think the.
Speaker 6: You know them getting it with a hoe. That's probably
Speaker 6: where my.
Speaker 2: Since apparently if you want to protect yourselves from snakes.
Speaker 3: I remember the first time I ever saw a snake,
Speaker 3: and it was my mom killing one with a hoe
Speaker 3: and I was a little bitty girl and she was hysterical,
Speaker 3: and I'm pretty sure it was like a garden steak.
Speaker 3: And that was the first time I ever saw one.
Speaker 3: And I imprinted, obviously as evidence today pretty hard. This
Speaker 3: is my mom is a pretty normal person. But they
Speaker 3: killed one with the hope.
Speaker 1: So what stood out to you?
Speaker 6: I thought my fav it was a fun podcast.
Speaker 3: I think the part where they were playing flutes in
Speaker 3: the streets, I think that was probably my favorite part.
Speaker 6: You know, we grew up in an area you always saw.
Speaker 6: You're right, the eighties were.
Speaker 2: The two scariest things in the eighties were cobras and
Speaker 2: quicksand yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, and so I when they I would
Speaker 3: have known, that's not the kind of flute you play like.
Speaker 3: I would have known the flutes don't sound like that,
Speaker 3: that you've got to play them, because the picture I
Speaker 3: have in my head is like you get the high
Speaker 3: school band out there with flutes and they're on the
Speaker 3: on and they're blaring it with these loudspeakers. That's kind
Speaker 3: of how I envisioned it, but that that image was
Speaker 3: pretty funny to me. Men with pitchforks and players brow.
Speaker 1: Do you know much about Indian snake charmers, son was I.
Speaker 1: I did a you know, a little bit of research
Speaker 1: just trying to understand like what this means in their culture.
Speaker 1: And these guys are from my research, these guys that
Speaker 1: are snake charmers. So they're the guys that are putting
Speaker 1: these little little baskets of snakes, lifting the lid off,
Speaker 1: a big cobra jumps out there within striking distance and
Speaker 1: they're playing this flute moving while the snake is doing
Speaker 1: like this. If you watch them lots of videos, they
Speaker 1: get struck out all the time and they just kind
Speaker 1: of move out of the way or they slap.
Speaker 2: The snake and they to see them slap the.
Speaker 1: But also read that a lot of that is, uh,
Speaker 1: the snakes are not healthy snakes, like they're not feeding
Speaker 1: them and they're kind of weak. It maybe what's your
Speaker 1: what you're well, let me say what I was gonna say.
Speaker 1: They're Culturally they're known as healers and magicians, so they're
Speaker 1: kind of like these special people like, oh, you're a
Speaker 1: snake charmer, well can you can you help me? You
Speaker 1: clearly have this power. What do you know about snake charmers?
Speaker 4: Basically that, yeah, it's just all tied to kind of
Speaker 4: ancient medicine and healing and that kind of thing. And
Speaker 4: you know, they the snake is qing in on the
Speaker 4: movement of the flute and the you know.
Speaker 1: I don't understand why they don't get a bit though.
Speaker 1: I still don't understandin.
Speaker 4: That cobra basically construct straight down, so he's not like
Speaker 4: a like you wouldn't do that with a rattlesnake, right,
Speaker 4: would get it would bite you. But cobras are pretty
Speaker 4: predictable in the way they react, and that's why they
Speaker 4: slap them on the head and stuff because they know.
Speaker 4: But you know, it's it's dangerous for sure. But can
Speaker 4: you take the things out of a snake? Yeah, there are,
Speaker 4: but they'll grow back. Yes, sometimes there are venomoid animals,
Speaker 4: but they don't really do well.
Speaker 2: I mean some people do.
Speaker 4: That interesting little anecdote you're talking about, You know, when
Speaker 4: did cobras pop up and back then do people know
Speaker 4: about cobras? So back in the thirties, there was a
Speaker 4: guy named Ross Allen from Florida, another famous snake guy,
Speaker 4: and he did a lot of the stunt work in Tarzan,
Speaker 4: the old Tarzan cereal, and they would literally take like
Speaker 4: Eastern diamondbacks or cotton mouths and like milk them, yeah,
Speaker 4: and cobras and stuff as much as they thought they could,
Speaker 4: and then it would literally bite him on screen. Oh
Speaker 4: my god, like they just drained the venom and say
Speaker 4: you'll be fine, We've got to shoot this right now. Yeah,
Speaker 4: because the snake's on endy so wow. Yeah, they would
Speaker 4: already do that. So and I thought about that, thought, yeah,
Speaker 4: cobra's I mean books and stuff. Probably people were aware
Speaker 4: of cobras, but that would have been a pretty shocking thing.
Speaker 4: You know, you're single in Springfield, Missouri. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Did it work? Yeah? Yeah, he he did a lot
Speaker 2: of movies, a lot of TVs. He made it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, But that was that's taken your job to a
Speaker 4: whole new level.
Speaker 2: Did so?
Speaker 1: I like on the render to comment on some of
Speaker 1: the some of some of the things that that was
Speaker 1: said on the on the deal, I thought bringing the
Speaker 1: cultural image back to something that we could relate to
Speaker 1: that was helpful for me, like to understand Indian snake
Speaker 1: charmers and saying that would be like if what if
Speaker 1: Brent Reeves had a had a big timber rattler and
Speaker 1: a bucket, which would be different What you just did
Speaker 1: was is more impressive. But imagine, imagine.
Speaker 6: He's basically a snake driver.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but but but what if?
Speaker 2: What if?
Speaker 1: What if there was like that tradition here where you
Speaker 1: had I mean, there's a you can see how those
Speaker 1: guys it's a powerful cultural image. When we see it,
Speaker 1: it seems exotic, far off, not understandable, not approachable, not touchable.
Speaker 1: But like what if our little kids grew up and
Speaker 1: they were like, one day, I'm gonna be a cobra
Speaker 1: snake charmer. Or like me trying to tell Bear, you
Speaker 1: should you should really look into this, you should be
Speaker 1: a snake d you know what I mean? Like, I
Speaker 1: was just trying to find a way to like make
Speaker 1: it connectable because and obviously we don't have anything like that.
Speaker 4: Well I think we do, Okay, have you ever seen
Speaker 4: the snake handling churches up in that place? Well I
Speaker 4: mentioned that, I mean that's straight up, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean that's his faith strong.
Speaker 1: Is that much? Is that still going on?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Not near as much, but they're still. It's funny.
Speaker 2: I liked a Facebook page of a church.
Speaker 4: I can't remember of it, but I followed it and
Speaker 4: they post videos of their service and about every six months,
Speaker 4: I'll have a snake little snake handle.
Speaker 2: Gnawing my fingernails off watching it.
Speaker 4: But and this guy's dad and his dad both died
Speaker 4: from snake back really and he said on there, it's
Speaker 4: it's very interesting their faith genuine?
Speaker 1: Do you think they are? Because well, but what I'm
Speaker 1: saying is that sometimes I've seen it and it feels
Speaker 1: and I mean, and I'm a I'm a I'm a
Speaker 1: I'm a church going man. So like I could respect
Speaker 1: somebody doing something that they actually had faith in. And
Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting I'm not into handling snakes, but like
Speaker 1: I could see someone doing it and it like actually
Speaker 1: meaning something to them. Yeah, I mean because because me
Speaker 1: and Brad could and Bear could go probably pick up
Speaker 1: a rattlesnake in a church and it it wouldn't really
Speaker 1: have any Like I don't know how your read was
Speaker 1: these guys.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there was a documentary about this. One preacher's how
Speaker 4: I discovered this whole church, and uh, this guy talked
Speaker 4: to him and he talked about and he said, hey,
Speaker 4: it's not for me. And he said, I don't do
Speaker 4: it unless the Lord caused me to do it. And
Speaker 4: he said, I know the consequences, and you know he's
Speaker 4: doing He's the Lord is telling me to do this
Speaker 4: for a reason, to you know, bring somebody's faith. Guine
Speaker 4: very genuine to the point, and I'm like, man, I
Speaker 4: wish my faith was that strong.
Speaker 2: Because I saw you pick up well yeah, but you know,
Speaker 2: watching pick Up the Snake, it was just very like
Speaker 2: there was like a grace to like you just it was.
Speaker 1: It's just not that big. Yeah, yeah, interesting Bart. What
Speaker 1: stood out to you about the podcast? What was your
Speaker 1: favorite part? Well, well, first I've got a question. Did
Speaker 1: you get why he had twelve of them? Like why
Speaker 1: didn't he just have like two or three, Like it
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense to have a hole?
Speaker 2: Maybe they were only sold by the dozens.
Speaker 4: Well probably you can't break a discount, you by, but
Speaker 4: you know, back then there wasn't much in in husbandry.
Speaker 4: They didn't have to take care of them, so they
Speaker 4: were likely going to get twelve and one or two
Speaker 4: is going to live the rest in bringing back because
Speaker 4: they didn't feed because they were kept in abysmal conditions.
Speaker 1: Okay, mister Fred may have some insight into this because
Speaker 1: when he mentioned that he ordered twenty five king cobras
Speaker 1: from Bangladesh and he didn't want twenty five. He wanted
Speaker 1: twelve for his snake, so he knew he wouldn't get twelve,
Speaker 1: and he actually only got three. He ordered twenty five
Speaker 1: and got three, and they shipped him to New Orleans
Speaker 1: and he went down to New Orleans. He tells a
Speaker 1: great story. He went to New Orleans, picked up like
Speaker 1: huge king kobras, like fifteen footers, and they were the
Speaker 1: customs the customs people. This is so long ago, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, probably like the seventies or something. Maybe it
Speaker 1: was maybe it was later than that. The customs people said,
Speaker 1: we got to see these snakes. And he was like,
Speaker 1: really you want to see them?
Speaker 2: And they were.
Speaker 1: They demanded to see him and he and they're like
Speaker 1: in like an office and he's like, you want me
Speaker 1: to turn the snake loose? Here They thought he suspected
Speaker 1: that they thought there was there was drugs in there
Speaker 1: and that they were smuggling drug It was a cover
Speaker 1: of smuggle drugs. And so they were like, we want
Speaker 1: to see the snake, and he just was like are
Speaker 1: you sure?
Speaker 2: Are you sure?
Speaker 1: You want me to put this snake right here? And
Speaker 1: they're just like yep. And so he does. He pulls
Speaker 1: out a fifteen foot king kobra and just plops it
Speaker 1: in the ground. Oh my, and he it was and anyway,
Speaker 1: the room just like scatters and he gathers the snake
Speaker 1: back up and gets it in, gets it back and
Speaker 1: he was like, okay, sir, you're good to go.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 4: So I've got a friend that's I think he's eighty
Speaker 4: two now and he grew up in that era and
Speaker 4: he lived up into Ohio and he worked at a
Speaker 4: zoo and I think what he said he did. He
Speaker 4: went in and started looking at their bills of ladings
Speaker 4: and shipments and stuff they've gotten, and got the names
Speaker 4: of people in Africa and India and he started writing
Speaker 4: them as like a twelve year old kid and was like,
Speaker 4: I will provide you with you know, X amount of
Speaker 4: black rat snakes and garter snakes in this net and
Speaker 4: you please send me. And he said he would get
Speaker 4: in these boxes marked venomous snakes and he would open
Speaker 4: it up and there'd be like fifteen different snakes and
Speaker 4: bags and he didn't know what they were. And I
Speaker 4: mean as a child, and he would go get books
Speaker 4: and figure out, Okay, this is bothers Asper and this
Speaker 4: is you know not Na And yeah, I'm like, are
Speaker 4: you kidding? But yeah, apparently back then it was pretty
Speaker 4: much but he said he, yeah, he had some crazy
Speaker 4: stuff back in probably in the late fifties when he
Speaker 4: was a kid.
Speaker 1: So anything could go.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I made the statement that some people believe the king
Speaker 1: Kobra to be the most venomous snake in the world.
Speaker 1: My doctor Chris Jenkins of the Snake Talk podcast. He actually,
Speaker 1: I had to put it that simply like some people
Speaker 1: think it. Uh, he didn't. He said the Kingcobra actually
Speaker 1: might not even make its top three most deadly how accurate.
Speaker 1: Fact checked me on my state. Yeah, you don't. So
Speaker 1: when you heard me say that, you were like, Brito's done.
Speaker 1: You were like, they miss that.
Speaker 4: No, I mean, but King Kobra's they are they're large.
Speaker 4: You're talking about a big snake that can deliver a
Speaker 4: lot of venom. That's what makes it so dangerous. But
Speaker 4: as far as like on a program basis, it's not
Speaker 4: not what is a lot of the taype hands in Australia. Australia,
Speaker 4: like eighty percent of their snakes are deadly, Like, they
Speaker 4: don't have many harmless snakes there.
Speaker 1: They don't mess around.
Speaker 4: And yeah, and a lot of those venoms are a
Speaker 4: lot more toxic. And like the inland taype hand I
Speaker 4: think has the highest LD fifty. They call it an
Speaker 4: LD fifty score. And uh, but that one and then
Speaker 4: like say, the one that kills probably more people worldwide
Speaker 4: is called a saw skilled viper and it lives in
Speaker 4: the Middle East basically. And in fact, I can't remember
Speaker 4: the Bible verse about the sizzling snakes in I don't
Speaker 4: know it's in the Old Testament, but I think that's
Speaker 4: what they're referring to, because these snakes, when they get agitated,
Speaker 4: they'll roll their scales against theirselves and it makes like
Speaker 4: a sort of like a rattling or sizzling sound. But
Speaker 4: and the reason is they have very toxic venom. They're
Speaker 4: very common in where they occur as people are barefoot
Speaker 4: and there's not much medical care, so there's a lot
Speaker 4: of factors. But yeah, king cobras, that's just like, you know.
Speaker 2: Not that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now it was the king cobra more venomous than
Speaker 1: these rattle snakes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, probably, okay, just because the Neuve toxic components there.
Speaker 1: So when I have my king cobra, yeah, and my rattlers,
Speaker 1: watch out for the king cobra.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would yeah say that you didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't let you finish what what what stood out
Speaker 1: to you most well? I thought that it was interesting
Speaker 1: that like people would have had no context for what
Speaker 1: a cobra was like that that would have never occurred
Speaker 1: to me. You didn't grow up in the eighties, so
Speaker 1: I don't think you really have a contact for what
Speaker 1: a cobra is. Well, I mean I've seen strike first
Speaker 1: strike Guard no mercy, sir.
Speaker 6: He's been raised, right, you know, he saw the right movies.
Speaker 1: It just seems like you just see cobras like that's
Speaker 1: just like a school man. I just know it, like
Speaker 1: it's not something you'd even think about. And yeah, so
Speaker 1: whenever like they were, you know, pulling out the flutes
Speaker 1: and stuff, and I guess you kind of explained how
Speaker 1: they weren't necessarily totally serious about that. But it just
Speaker 1: never would have occurred to me that they wouldn't have
Speaker 1: had any idea that just because they don't have like
Speaker 1: the exposure to it, they would have been looking and
Speaker 1: like encyclopedias to learn about cobra. Absolutely, I mean yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's no Google, there's no YouTube. Yeah, and they wouldn't
Speaker 1: have seen it on movies and stuff growing up. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: josh Wa stood out to you.
Speaker 2: The whole thing was pretty interesting. But uh, I think
Speaker 2: it's interesting how the that isolated situation, I mean it went,
Speaker 2: it lasted over the period of like six weeks, yep.
Speaker 2: How much it imprinted on the identity of Springfield.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean the.
Speaker 2: Fact that they went and put it on the seal,
Speaker 2: they had the cobra haircut, I mean, all these things,
Speaker 2: like it was sensational at the time, and I mean
Speaker 2: rightly so. But just the fact that to this day,
Speaker 2: what are we sixty years later, there's still a cobra
Speaker 2: on the seal seventy one seventy one years, Yeah, there's
Speaker 2: still a cobra on the seal. I love it. I
Speaker 2: mean I love that A simple thing like that can
Speaker 2: change the destiny of a place.
Speaker 1: I thought Kyle Jeffers did a great job of explaining
Speaker 1: why little quirky regional things bring a lot of identity.
Speaker 1: And the guy from the brewery, he was like, he
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, every little town's got something weird that
Speaker 1: happened yep, and this was our little weird thing, you know.
Speaker 1: So I thought he did a good job of telling
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. I'll tell you, I'll tell you
Speaker 1: this is this is behind the veil. I don't fully
Speaker 1: buy Carl Barnett's confession.
Speaker 2: Really, yeah, that was my favorite part.
Speaker 1: Okay, So so there's a there's a more extended version
Speaker 1: of the confession and they actually ask him if he
Speaker 1: had any regrets and if he wished he hadn't done it,
Speaker 1: and he kind of gets defensive and he they were like,
Speaker 1: would you would you do it different if you could
Speaker 1: do it again, and he was like, well.
Speaker 2: No, no, that's sucker cheated.
Speaker 1: And there's just something. So it's a it's a YouTube video.
Speaker 1: You can look it up, the Cobra Scare. Maybe we'll
Speaker 1: put it in the in the in the in the link,
Speaker 1: in the in the in the description, but you can
Speaker 1: watch him tell the story, and I just think, I
Speaker 1: don't know when I when I was watching him, I
Speaker 1: just was kind of like, did you really do that? Carl?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to cast skepticism on we
Speaker 1: need idyll As. I understand it. Carl is no longer
Speaker 1: with us, So it was pretty back in ninety two
Speaker 1: he was.
Speaker 2: I mean, he was, yeah, what's the counterfactual play?
Speaker 3: Like if you if you say something like that, there
Speaker 3: has to be another theory for what happened.
Speaker 1: I just think, no, I'm not saying, I'm just saying
Speaker 1: I'm slightly skeptical that that he actually did it just
Speaker 1: from reading just reading his eyes, I'm just like that
Speaker 1: God lied to you.
Speaker 6: Whoa he has grandkids.
Speaker 1: I have no.
Speaker 2: Evidence.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, no. All I did was watching
Speaker 1: a YouTube video video. I just I just wondered if
Speaker 1: anybody else got that vibe.
Speaker 2: I did not.
Speaker 4: Okay, he was very sincere.
Speaker 2: I was like this, guys, I watched the extended one too,
Speaker 2: and I think you're you.
Speaker 3: I think the defensiveness is actually makes it sound more factual,
Speaker 3: more more truthful.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, the fact that he lived with it for thirty
Speaker 4: years before telling someone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we'll see.
Speaker 1: That's part. That's part of it though, if you like,
Speaker 1: no one could dispute him. Yeah, do you understand. I
Speaker 1: mean it's like there's nobody that's gonna go, well you
Speaker 1: wait for you were at Yeah, yeah, reil Meyer couldn't
Speaker 1: have gone. I don't even know this guy, Like I
Speaker 1: didn't trade fish, Like, it's all so deep in the past.
Speaker 1: That was it too, it there and there were no
Speaker 1: other there were no other stories. But but what would
Speaker 1: his motivation be? That that's another one. If we're in
Speaker 1: the court of law, I'd be like, well, why would
Speaker 1: you lie? He has no reason to lie, which I
Speaker 1: at that other than just maybe just a little uh publicity.
Speaker 6: What else do you think would have could have happened?
Speaker 1: I mean, the snakes just got out of rail my
Speaker 1: ours pet shop, you know, I mean, they just got loose.
Speaker 4: Maybe you sound like a colorful guy, Yeah, yeah, like
Speaker 4: my kind of guy.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Well, it was it was a fun It was a
Speaker 1: fun podcast.
Speaker 2: I want to hear about bears turkey.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, give us the give us the version, the
Speaker 1: condensed version of your turkey hunt. Okay, well pretty much.
Speaker 1: I I hunted from opening day till Thursday and had
Speaker 1: a couple of really good opportunities on turkeys, and I
Speaker 1: kind of had an idea of what When.
Speaker 2: He says he hunted those days, he literally left and
Speaker 2: didn't come home. Well, he spent the night. I spent
Speaker 2: the night out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I had to keep.
Speaker 3: A big senior presentation that he had to do at school.
Speaker 3: And he shows up at our house and is like, Mom,
Speaker 3: do you know where the shirt is?
Speaker 2: Do you know what?
Speaker 6: And it's coming in from the woods and went straightway.
Speaker 1: I came early enough. But anyway, I over the four days,
Speaker 1: I kind of developed an idea of what they were doing.
Speaker 2: It was, well, and you were you were sleeping in
Speaker 2: your truck at your spot, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He would leave the house at like ten o'clock
Speaker 1: at night to go get his spot yep, and sleep
Speaker 1: in his truck. And then you know, he had a
Speaker 1: couple of guys pull in before daylight. He could stumble out,
Speaker 1: you know, and his underwear and be like, I'm darky
Speaker 1: on there. Pretty much. But uh yeah, So I kind
Speaker 1: of had an idea of what they were doing. And
Speaker 1: there was one particular turkey, the first one that I
Speaker 1: heard on opening day, and uh, I could I knew
Speaker 1: where he was roosting. But I couldn't really get in
Speaker 1: close on him every morning, but I heard him the
Speaker 1: first two days like right before like gobble down in
Speaker 1: the exact same spot, and uh, I'd go down there
Speaker 1: and try and get them, and I'd eventually find them
Speaker 1: up the mountain like four hunder yards probably maybe not
Speaker 1: that far. But in two of the days he met
Speaker 1: up with another gobbler up there, and I'd hear two
Speaker 1: of them. Would you do you have their like calendar?
Speaker 1: Pretty much like he was meeting up with another guy.
Speaker 1: It it just seemed like they were always like right
Speaker 1: there after they got up through.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I.
Speaker 1: On Thursday, I go down to where I can hear
Speaker 1: into this haller where I've been hearing some turkeys, and
Speaker 1: then kind of hear another area or to my right,
Speaker 1: but I, uh, I heard another guy. Well, I saw
Speaker 1: a bunch of headlamps like all around the haller. I
Speaker 1: saw three. Two of them were like kind of and
Speaker 1: this is a this is a hollow that's like half
Speaker 1: a mile across, but the leaves aren't still out, so
Speaker 1: you could see a headlamp like bobbing through the woods.
Speaker 1: Am I right? Yeah? And uh it seem like people
Speaker 1: were just like accumulating every day because they would hear
Speaker 1: turkeys and then come back the next day. And anyway,
Speaker 1: I get in there and there's a guy over across
Speaker 1: the haller who's alt hooting a whole bunch and crow
Speaker 1: calling and this care going on, yeah, just over and over,
Speaker 1: and I was about to actually leave because I kind
Speaker 1: of thought he was just gonna blow out all the
Speaker 1: turkeys because he was like right in the middle of
Speaker 1: where a lot of the turkeys were, and I was
Speaker 1: considering leaving, and then I heard one, the one right
Speaker 1: down on his roost where he usually is, and it
Speaker 1: was like the gun going off at a track meet.
Speaker 1: It was like you could just feel like everybody'd come
Speaker 1: off the top of the haller and just like started
Speaker 1: going towards him. But I kind of knew he was
Speaker 1: going to go up the mountain to where he was,
Speaker 1: and I knew I wasn't going to kill him on
Speaker 1: the roost or like you know, catch him flying down,
Speaker 1: and so I just kind of ran up to where
Speaker 1: I figured he'd be. And it took me a really
Speaker 1: long time because there's big blow and stuff, and it's
Speaker 1: a big hauler, and I get a.
Speaker 2: Scene out of Last of the Mohicans. Yeah, just running
Speaker 2: through the woods.
Speaker 1: I was. I was literally running at a few different point,
Speaker 1: hair flying, and I get up about where I think
Speaker 1: he's gonna be, and uh, I hear him. As I
Speaker 1: get close to that point, I can hear him gobbling
Speaker 1: up the mountain from me, and uh, as I get closer,
Speaker 1: I can hear two gobblers up there, gobbling at each other,
Speaker 1: like like one would gobble and the other one would
Speaker 1: start up right after. And I just started to get closer,
Speaker 1: you know. I figured I'd just get as close as
Speaker 1: I can and then call. But I just got closer
Speaker 1: and closer and closer. And I got to where I
Speaker 1: was like eighty yards from him, and they were up
Speaker 1: the mountain from me, and uh, they were up on
Speaker 1: this bluff above me, and I saw a break in
Speaker 1: the bluff where I could kind of get up it,
Speaker 1: and I was like, and up at the very top
Speaker 1: of it was a big rock and so like a
Speaker 1: rock as big as your truck.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so I figured I could get up there. Now,
Speaker 1: why didn't you want to call at them when you
Speaker 1: were that close? Well, I thought about it, but I
Speaker 1: was downhill from them, and I wanted to be above them,
Speaker 1: and I didn't know if I just didn't know if
Speaker 1: they'd come off, because at that point they were like
Speaker 1: even with me. Between me and them was a bluff.
Speaker 1: They weren't even with the part where you could get
Speaker 1: up and h okay. And so I figured i'd kind
Speaker 1: of get up that part and get even with them,
Speaker 1: and i'd pop out, you know, right next to that rock,
Speaker 1: like forty yards from is what I thought. But as
Speaker 1: I started walking up that I could hear them, just
Speaker 1: like right next to that rock, right on the other
Speaker 1: side where I couldn't see them, but I could hear
Speaker 1: their wings flapping and they were gobbling, and I guess
Speaker 1: they were fighting each other or something. And at this
Speaker 1: point I was so close to him, I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I might as well just risk it for the biscuit. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I'd almost bush racked another one on the second day,
Speaker 1: just like I was walking and just saw him before
Speaker 1: he saw me. He just got lucky, and so I
Speaker 1: was kind of thinking I could probably do that with
Speaker 1: these ones. And I'd called at him so much and
Speaker 1: other people called at him. I didn't know if the
Speaker 1: call would yeah, would work at this point, and so
Speaker 1: I get up to that rock and uh, in how
Speaker 1: you're like twenty yards from them? I think I think
Speaker 1: I was like ten yards from at this point, so
Speaker 1: you're just like sneak right up. They were like directly
Speaker 1: on the other side of the rock, and the rock
Speaker 1: kind of was like a it was like a triangle
Speaker 1: pretty much, and on the north end of the triangle
Speaker 1: is where I went. And I was like the point
Speaker 1: of the triangle and I kind of stuck my hands
Speaker 1: on it, and I looked around the other side and
Speaker 1: directly on the other side of the triangle, probably five
Speaker 1: yards off the rock, there was a flock of them
Speaker 1: and I could see like four or five turkeys. Now,
Speaker 1: were you not afraid you were gonna spook them by
Speaker 1: peeking your head around? Well, I did it like as
Speaker 1: slow as you could, and I had a mask on,
Speaker 1: and I didn't really realize they were that close. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and they were that rock. It was kind of weird.
Speaker 1: It was like the there was a lower side of it,
Speaker 1: and then you go to the other side and it
Speaker 1: was like four or five foot the ground was four
Speaker 1: or five foot higher, like there was like dirt stuck
Speaker 1: up against it. So I was below him, still on
Speaker 1: that rock, and I could just see I could just
Speaker 1: see him right up there on that little plateau there,
Speaker 1: and uh so I just kind of like creep back
Speaker 1: behind the rock, and I can tell they're moving over
Speaker 1: towards me, and so I just stick my gun up
Speaker 1: and I hear him clucking, and the first turkey that
Speaker 1: pops out, I could tell he was a long beard.
Speaker 1: And I looked at him for a really long time,
Speaker 1: even though I could have shot him, just because I
Speaker 1: did not want to, yeah, shoot a jake or shoot
Speaker 1: a hen or something. And he started going back and
Speaker 1: forth at like five yards, and finally I got a
Speaker 1: really good look at him, and I could tell he
Speaker 1: was one hundred percent a long beard. And about that time,
Speaker 1: he sees me right there in front of him, and
Speaker 1: he turns and just is about to just starts to run.
Speaker 1: But it was too late. He was already just like
Speaker 1: I mean, I had my I mean I was already
Speaker 1: hunkered down on him. All I had to do is
Speaker 1: pull the trigger, and uh yep, got him, got him.
Speaker 1: I think that's pretty good woodsmanship. Yeah, yeah, and turkey
Speaker 1: know how to know not to call, not to mess around.
Speaker 1: I mean, I won't even go over there. I don't
Speaker 1: even want to go over there. Yeah, it's just too
Speaker 1: many people, you know.
Speaker 2: But uh, yeah it was. It was a nice, nice
Speaker 2: gobbler and cook it tonight.
Speaker 1: I bet there's snakes Deluxe right in that area. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I actually found one, like probably well, yeah, you found
Speaker 1: the road right where I killed it, probably like three
Speaker 1: hundred yards from it. Yeah. A live copper head. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: a live one. I've only been uh, I've only been
Speaker 1: struck at and actually bit unintentionally one time, like thinking
Speaker 1: about being in a place with a lot of snakes,
Speaker 1: going back to Snake's Great Turkey story. One time while
Speaker 1: deer hunting and it was cool in October, I had
Speaker 1: a copperhead bite my rubber boot. I didn't even know
Speaker 1: it was there. It's a little one, A little bitty
Speaker 1: guy just felt something like tap my boot and I
Speaker 1: looked down. I was like, dad, got that thing bit me? Anyway,
Speaker 1: I was thinking about bear out there and Snake Country. Yep,
Speaker 1: we are all the time. Hey, thank you Brad for coming. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it starts when starts meet Either live tour is on.
Speaker 1: If you're listening to this, you're we're there. But you
Speaker 1: can still buy tickets to shows. Uh oh yeah, Josh
Speaker 1: made Josh Pilmaker Josh Lambridge Spillmaker made ten did did
Speaker 1: this strike you as odd when he walked in there
Speaker 1: in hats?
Speaker 6: This guy loves scoons your.
Speaker 1: Nets, So yeah so Josh Josh Lambridge Spilmmaker made ten
Speaker 1: coonskin hats that are gonna be given away one at
Speaker 1: each live tour event for the winner of the al
Speaker 1: Hooting contest. So good job, Josh, good job. But yeah, Brad,
Speaker 1: thanks for coming man, thanks for bringing the snakes.
Speaker 2: You wind incredible show.
Speaker 1: And yes, yeah yeah, we're gonna just have We're just
Speaker 1: gonna have to have him come back, just to no doubt.
Speaker 1: It's like, hey, I'll bring every time we can guess yes, yes, wow, great,
Speaker 1: Thanks guys,