1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Whole Zone Media. 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 2: I think we should drop the book club chanting because 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 2: it's a sort of funny bit, but can only go 4 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 2: so far. 5 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,799 Speaker 1: But what's your plans to replace the chanting? 6 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 2: I think you should start by chanting, and then I'll 7 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 2: chastise you for how that doesn't work and why are 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 2: you doing that. 9 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: I'm against chanting in general, just because I find it 10 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: kind of uptoce and conformist and a whole bitch of 11 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: other bullshit reasons, mostly because I don't like talking loudly. 12 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: There's the real reason I don't like chanting. It just 13 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: takes me uncomfortable. 14 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 2: Okay, well let's do it the opposite. I will start 15 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: chanting and you will refuse to join in, and then 16 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 2: chastise me. How does that sound? 17 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: Or we could have already started it with my rant 18 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: about why I don't like chanting. 19 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 2: Well, then, I guess you're listening to cool Zone Media 20 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: book Club Club, the podcast in which Gere and Margaret 21 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 2: discuss how to start podcasts, podcasts, hard Cast, hardener Cast. 22 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 2: That's my new country Western cool Ze Media book Club 23 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 2: is a weekly book club where I read you stories, 24 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 2: and in this case, you will be played by gear 25 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 2: Hi Gre. 26 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: Hi, Hello, audience, surrogate. 27 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 2: Okay, so half the book club is like new, cool, 28 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 2: exciting stories, and then the other half is that I'm like, 29 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: I want y'all to know some classics of science fiction 30 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: and where everything comes from. And this is one of 31 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 2: those episodes. This episode you'll probably guessed because the name 32 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 2: in the title, Arthur C. Clark, is a name y'all 33 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 2: might have heard of, Like Garre, have you heard of 34 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 2: Arthur C. 35 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: Clark? I have heard of Arthur C. Clark. 36 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's enough. He's one of those people where 37 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 2: if you dig in too much, you start being like, 38 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: do I actually want to read this guy? 39 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: Well? I mean, isn't that like all like male authors 40 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: more or less? 41 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, don't type in Arthur C. Clark controversy into Google. 42 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: Okay, I will not to do that. 43 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 2: There's some allegations anyway. He is one of the classic 44 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 2: science fiction writers. He's from England. He wrote the screenplay 45 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 2: for a nineteen sixty eight two thousand and one space Odyssey. 46 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: Oh this guy Okay. Yeah, all of the bad stuff 47 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: in two thousand and one comes from him, and all 48 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: the cool stuff comes from Kubrick. Oh interesting, Based on 49 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: my diving into the development of that story. But that's 50 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: just my personal opinion. That's up to interpretation. Many people 51 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: disagree with me. 52 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 2: Well, I love two thousand and one, I need to 53 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 2: rewatch it. The idea that in space there are things 54 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 2: that just don't conform with our idea of reality that 55 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: will like break our brains. Is that a him or 56 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: is that a Kubrick? 57 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: That's mostly Kubrick because him and Kubrick works together to 58 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: write the screenplay, and then Arthur C. Clerk wrote the 59 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: book based on the screenplay from him and Kubrick, so 60 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: it wasn't actually his original idea. Most people have that reversed. 61 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: People think that the movie's an adaptation of Arthur C. 62 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 1: Clerk's book, but it's not. The book itself is an 63 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: adaptation of a story that mostly came from Kubrick. Okay, 64 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: So a lot of like the more like Nietzschean or 65 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: like existential stuff in two thousand and one mostly comes 66 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: from Kubrick. Okay, And if you read any of the 67 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: sequels to two thousand and one, you can very clearly 68 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 1: see what type of stuff came from Arthur C. Clark. 69 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: It's just an interesting experiment. 70 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 2: So that's Actually, that's really interesting to me because of 71 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: the story that we're about to read. 72 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: I'd excited to hear it. 73 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 2: So I first ran across this story when I was 74 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 2: probably a young teen. There's this book called the Science 75 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: Fiction Hall of Fame, Volume one, and it was put 76 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 2: together by the Science Fiction Writers of America the SFWA, 77 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 2: which is kind of the closest thing that we have 78 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 2: to a union as speculative fiction writers in the US. 79 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 2: I was about to say, I'm a member of SFWA, 80 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: but I don't know if I'm up on my I 81 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 2: don't know if I renewed my membership. I believe in 82 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: the SFWA and have been a member in the past, 83 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 2: and will probably be a member now that I've shamed 84 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 2: myself into remembering to send in my you know, yearly 85 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: fee or whatever. 86 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: But they're the group that's me and the IWW, yeah, exactly. 87 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 2: They're the group that is primarily the reason that speculative 88 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: fiction short fiction is actually something that you can make 89 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 2: a little bit of money at compared to other things 90 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 2: other types of writing. That's cool because they declare what 91 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 2: counts as pro rates and they raise it all the 92 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 2: time to match inflation, and so outside of specula fiction, 93 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 2: you have all these places paying like one cent a word, 94 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 2: you know, and then within science fiction or speculative fiction. 95 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 2: More broadly, most magazines want to be professional magazines, and 96 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 2: so they therefore have to pay the current professional rate, 97 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 2: which I don't remember what is, because I haven't submitted 98 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 2: short fiction to magazines in a while. My little brag 99 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 2: about how they come to me. No, I've just been 100 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: busy writing other stuff. 101 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're busy writing a lot of devellos from my 102 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: a lot. 103 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: Of novellas and now a book. But I'll plug that 104 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 2: at the end. So I found this book on my 105 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,799 Speaker 2: dad's shelf and I read it, and there's two stories 106 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: I remember from it, And the other one was a 107 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 2: man invents a machine to be able to hear in 108 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 2: the frequencies that plants communicate, and then he like cuts 109 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 2: a tree and then can never live with himself again 110 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: and realizes that, like everything alive, can feel pain, and 111 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 2: he just suffers. He just absolutely suffers with that realization. 112 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 2: How there's a couple other stories from there. There's another 113 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 2: one who a guy invents a thing where he doesn't 114 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 2: have to sleep, and then he a lot of stuff 115 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: that Futurama has ripped off of comes from this book. 116 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: That makes sense. 117 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 2: But this story in particular stuck with me as a kid. 118 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 2: And it's called the Nine Billion Names of God, and 119 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 2: it's about the nine billion Names of God, and I'm 120 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 2: going to read it. This story was originally published in 121 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty three or nineteen fifty four, so for understanding 122 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 2: of when they're talking about computers, that's what they're talking about. 123 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 2: This story absolutely plays with orientalist tropes, and not in 124 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 2: a self conscious way. I want to point that out, 125 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 2: and I will chalk that up to the style at 126 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: the time. But you don't need to. 127 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: Well, you could also very easily blame the Theosophists, as 128 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: you can for many many things, for introducing this style 129 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: of like Tibetan orientalism. Just blame the theosophists. It's easy, 130 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: it's free, it's cheap, it's fun. Just blame them. They 131 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: can take the heat. They've taken the heat for decades. 132 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: It's fine, okay. So with that disclaimer. The Nine Billion 133 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 2: Names of God by Arthur C. Clark. This is a 134 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 2: slightly unusual quest, said doctor Wagner, with what he had 135 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 2: hoped was commendable restraint. As far as I know, it's 136 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 2: the first time anyone's been asked to supply a Tibetan 137 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 2: monastery with an automatic sequence computer. I don't wish to 138 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 2: be inquisitive, but I should hardly have thought that your 139 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: establishment had much use for such a machine. Could you 140 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 2: explain just what you intend to do with it, gladly, 141 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 2: replied the Lama, readjusting his silk robes and carefully putting 142 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 2: away the slide rule he had been using for currency conversions. 143 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: Your Mark five computer can carry out any routine mathematical 144 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 2: operation involving up to ten digits. However, for our work, 145 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 2: we are interested in letters, not numbers. As we wish 146 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 2: you to modify the output circuits, the machine will be 147 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: printing words, not columns of figures. I don't quite understand. 148 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: This is a project on which we have been working 149 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: for the last three centuries since the Lamissary was founded. 150 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 2: In fact, it is somewhat alien to your way of thought, 151 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: so I hope you will listen with an open mind 152 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: while I explain it naturally well. In order to run 153 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 2: this podcast, we need to interject classic and important stories 154 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 2: with advertisements for ads and services, said Margaret. The host, 155 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 2: here's the mess, and we're back. It is really quite simple. 156 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 2: We have been compiling a list which shall contain all 157 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 2: the possible names of God. I beg your pardon. We 158 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: have reason to believe, continued the Lama in imperturbably. That's 159 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 2: totally how you pronounced that that all such names can 160 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 2: be written with not more than nine letters in an 161 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 2: alphabet we have devised, and you have been doing this 162 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 2: for three centuries. Yes, we expected it would take us 163 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 2: about fifteen thousand years to complete the task. Oh, doctor 164 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: Wagner looked a little dazed. Now, I see why you 165 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 2: wanted to hire one of our machines. But exactly what 166 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 2: is the purpose of this project? Lama hesitated for a 167 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 2: fraction of a second, and Wagner wondered if he had 168 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: offended him. If so, there was no trace of annoyance 169 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 2: in the reply. Call it ritual if you like, but 170 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: it's a fundamental part of our belief. All the many 171 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 2: names of the Supreme Being God, Jehovah, Allah, and so 172 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 2: on are only man made labels. There is a philosophical 173 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 2: problem with some difficult to hear, which I do not 174 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 2: propose to discuss. But somewhere among all the possible combinations 175 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 2: of letters that can occur are what one may call 176 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 2: the real names of God. By systematic permutation of letters. 177 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: We have been trying to list them all. I see, 178 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: so you've been starting at A and working to zzzzzzz exactly. 179 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 2: Though we use a special alphabet of our own. Modifying 180 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: the electromatic typewriters to deal with this is of course trivial. 181 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 2: A rather more interesting problem is that of devising suitable 182 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 2: circuits to eliminate ridiculous combinations. For example, no oh letter 183 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 2: must occur more than three times in succession three. Surely 184 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 2: you mean two three is correct. I'm afraid it would 185 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: take too long to explain why, even if you understood 186 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 2: our language. I'm sure it would, said Wagner hastily. Go on. Luckily, 187 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 2: it will be a simple matter to adapt your automatic 188 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 2: sequence computer for this work, since once it has been 189 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 2: programmed properly, it will permute each letter in turn and 190 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 2: print the result. What would have taken us fifteen thousand years, 191 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: it will be able to do in a hundred days. 192 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 2: Doctor Wagner was scarcely conscious of the faint sounds from 193 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 2: the Manhattan streets far below. He was in a different world, 194 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: a whirl of natural, not man made mountains high up 195 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 2: in their remote areas. These monks had been patiently at work, 196 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,599 Speaker 2: generation after generation, compiling their lists of meaningless words. Was 197 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 2: there any limits to the follies of mankind? Still? He 198 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 2: must give no hint to his inner thoughts. The customer 199 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 2: was always right. There's no doubt, replied the doctor, that 200 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 2: we can modify the mark five to print lists of 201 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 2: this nature. I'm much more worried about the problem of 202 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 2: installation and maintenance. Getting out to Tibet in these days 203 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 2: is not going to be easy. We can arrange that 204 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 2: the components are small enough to travel by air. That 205 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 2: is one reason why we chose your machine. If you 206 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 2: can get them to India, we will provide transport from there. 207 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 2: And you want to hire two of our engineers, Yes, 208 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 2: for the three months that the project should occupy. I've 209 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 2: no doubt that personnel can manage that. Doctor Wagner scribbled 210 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 2: a note on his desk pad. There are just two 211 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 2: other points. Before he could finish the sentence, the lama 212 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: had produced a small slip of paper. This is my 213 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 2: certified credit balance at the Asiatic Bank. Thank you. It 214 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 2: appears to be adequate. The second matter is so trivial 215 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: that I hesitate to mention it. But it's surprising how 216 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 2: often the obvious gets overlooked. What source of electrical energy 217 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 2: do you have? You a diesel generator providing fifty kilowotts 218 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 2: at one hundred and ten volts. It was installed about 219 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 2: five years ago and is quite reliable. It's made life 220 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 2: at the lamissary much more comfortable. But of course it 221 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 2: was really installed to provide power for the motors driving 222 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 2: the prayer wheels. Of course, echoed doctor Wagner. I should 223 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 2: have thought of that. The view from the parapet was verticenuous, 224 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 2: but in time, one gets used to anything. After three months, 225 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 2: George Hanley was not impressed by the two thousand foot 226 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 2: swoop into the Abyss or the remote checkerboard of fields 227 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 2: in the valley below. He was leaning against the wind 228 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: smooth stones and staring morosely at the distant mountains whose 229 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 2: names he had never bothered to discover. This thought, George 230 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 2: was the craziest thing that had ever happened to him. 231 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 2: Project Shangri La, some went back at the labs had 232 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 2: christened it. For weeks now the mark five had been 233 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 2: churning out acres of sheets covered with gibberish patiently inexorably. 234 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 2: The computer had been re arranging letters in all their 235 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 2: possible combinations, exhausting each clasp before going on to the next. 236 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 2: As the sheets had emerged from the electromatic typewriters, the 237 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: monks had carefully cut them up and pasted them into 238 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: enormous books. In another week, Heaven be praised, they would 239 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 2: have finished just what obscure calculations had convinced the monks 240 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 2: that they needn't bother to go on to words of ten, 241 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 2: twenty or one hundred letters. George didn't know. One of 242 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 2: his recurring nightmares was that there would be some change 243 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 2: of plan and that the hi Lama, whom they naturally 244 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 2: called Sam Jaffe, although he didn't look a bit like him. 245 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 2: Reader's note, I had to look that up. That's an 246 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 2: actor who people would have recognized in the fifties, would 247 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,679 Speaker 2: suddenly announced that the project would be extended to approximately 248 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 2: eighty twenty sixty. They were quite capable of it. George 249 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 2: heard the heavy wooden door slam in the wind as 250 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 2: Chuck came out onto the parapet beside him. As usual, 251 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 2: Chuck was smoking one of the cigars that made him 252 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: so popular with the monks, who it seemed, were quite 253 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 2: willing to embrace all the minor and most of them 254 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 2: the major pleasures of life. That was one thing in 255 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 2: their favor. They might be crazy, but they weren't blue 256 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 2: noses those frequent trips they took down to the village, 257 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 2: for instance. Listen, George said Chuck urgently, I've learned something 258 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 2: that means trouble. What's wrong? Isn't the machine behaving? That 259 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 2: was the worst contingency George could imagine. It might delay 260 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 2: his return, and nothing could be more horrible the way 261 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: he felt. Now, even the sight of a TV commercial 262 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 2: would seem like manna from heaven. At least it would 263 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 2: be some link with home. And who would I be 264 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 2: to not take that opportunity to offer you this the 265 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 2: modern version of the TV commercial, the podcast commercial, and 266 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 2: we're back. No, oh, it's nothing like that. Chuck settled 267 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 2: himself on the parapet, which was unusual because normally he 268 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 2: was scared of the drop. I've just found what all 269 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 2: this is about? What do you mean? I thought we knew, sure, 270 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 2: we know what the monks are trying to do. But 271 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 2: we didn't know why. It's the craziest thing. Tell me 272 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 2: something new, growled George. But old Sam's come clean with me. 273 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 2: You know the way he drops in every afternoon just 274 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 2: to watch the sheet rolls out. Well, this time he 275 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 2: seemed rather excited, or at least as near as he'll 276 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 2: ever get to it. When I told him that we 277 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 2: were on the last cycle, he asked me, in that 278 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 2: cute English accent of his, if i'd ever wondered what 279 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 2: they were trying to do. I said sure, and he 280 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 2: told me, go on, I'll buy it. Well, they believe 281 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 2: that when they've listed all his names and they reckon 282 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 2: they're about nine billion of them, God's purpose will be achieved. 283 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 2: The human race will have finished what it was created 284 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 2: to do, and there won't be any point in carrying on. Indeed, 285 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 2: the very idea is something like blasphemy. Then what do 286 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 2: they expect us to do? Commit suicide? There's no need 287 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 2: for that. When the list completed, God steps in and 288 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 2: simply winds things up. Bingo, Oh, I get it. When 289 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: we finish our job, it'll be the end of the world. 290 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 2: Chuck gave a nervous little laugh. That's just what I 291 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 2: said to Sam, and do you know what happened? He 292 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 2: looked at me in a very queer way, like I'd 293 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 2: been stupid in class, and said, it's nothing as trivial 294 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 2: as that. George thought this over for a moment. That's 295 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 2: what I call taking the wide view, he said, presently, 296 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 2: But what do you suppose we should do about it? 297 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 2: I don't see it makes the slightest difference to us. 298 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 2: After all, we already knew they were crazy. Yes, but 299 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: don't you see what may happen when the list's complete 300 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 2: and the last Trump doesn't blow or whatever it is 301 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 2: they expect, We may get the blame. It's our machine 302 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 2: they've been using. I don't like the situation one little bit, 303 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 2: I see, said George slowly. You've got a point there. 304 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 2: But this sort of thing's happened before, you know. When 305 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 2: I was a kid down in Louisiana, we had a 306 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 2: crackpot preacher who once said the world was going to 307 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 2: end next Sunday. Hundreds of people believed him, even sold 308 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 2: their homes. Yet when nothing happened, they didn't turn nasty 309 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 2: as you'd expect. They just decided that he'd made a 310 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 2: mistake in his calculations and went right on believing. I 311 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 2: guess some of them still do well. This isn't Louisiana, 312 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 2: in case you hadn't noticed, there are just two of 313 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: us and hundreds of these monks. I like them, and 314 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,160 Speaker 2: I'll be sorry for old Sam when his life work 315 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 2: backfires on him. But all the same, I wish I 316 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,479 Speaker 2: was somewhere else. I've been wishing that for weeks. But 317 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: there's nothing we can do until the contract's finished and 318 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 2: the transport arrives to fly us out. Of course, said 319 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 2: Chuck thoughtfully. We could always try a bit of sabotage, 320 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 2: like how we could That would make things worse, not 321 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 2: the way I meant look at it. Like this, the 322 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 2: machine will finish its run four days from now on 323 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 2: the present twenty four hours a day basis. The transport 324 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: calls in in a week. Okay, then all we need 325 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 2: to do is find something that needs replacing during one 326 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 2: of the overhaul periods, something that'll hold up the work 327 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 2: for a couple of days. We'll fix it, of course, 328 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 2: but not too quickly. If we time matters properly, we 329 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 2: can be down at the airfield when the last name 330 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 2: pops out of the register. They won't be able to 331 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 2: catch us. Then I don't like it, said George. It 332 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 2: will be the first time I ever walked out on 333 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 2: a job. Besides, it would make them suspicious. No, I'll 334 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 2: sit tight and see what comes. I still don't like it, 335 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 2: he said seven days later, as the tough little mountain 336 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 2: ponies carried them down the winding road. And don't you 337 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 2: think I'm running away, because I'm afraid. I'm just sorry 338 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 2: for those poor old guys up there, and I don't 339 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 2: want to be around when they find out what suckers 340 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,959 Speaker 2: they've been. Wonder how Sam will take it. It's funny, 341 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 2: replied Chuck. But when I said goodbye, I got the 342 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 2: idea that he knew we were walking out on him, 343 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 2: and that he didn't care because he knew the machine 344 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 2: was running smoothly and that the job would soon be finished. 345 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 2: After that, well, of course, for him, there just isn't 346 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 2: any after that. George turned in his saddle and stared 347 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 2: back up the mountain road. This was the last place 348 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 2: from which one could get a clear view of the lamissary. 349 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,120 Speaker 2: The squat angular buildings were silhouetted against the after glow 350 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 2: of the sunset. Here and there lights gleamed like portholes 351 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 2: in the side of an ocean liner electric lights, of course, 352 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 2: sharing the same circuit as the Mark five. How much 353 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 2: longer would they share, it, wondered George. Would the monks 354 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 2: smash up the computer and their rage and disappointment, or 355 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 2: would they just sit down quietly and begin their calculations 356 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 2: all over again. He knew exactly what was happening up 357 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 2: on the mountain at this very moment. The High Lama 358 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 2: and his assistants would be sitting in their silk robes, 359 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 2: inspecting the sheets as the junior monks carried them away 360 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: from the typewriters and pasted them into their great volumes. 361 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 2: No one would be saying anything. The only sound would 362 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 2: be the incessant patter the never ending rain storm of 363 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 2: the keys hitting the paper. For the Mark five itself 364 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 2: was utterly silent as it flashed through its thousands of calculations. 365 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 2: A second three months of this, thought George, was enough 366 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 2: to start anyone climbing up the wall. There she is, called, Chuck, 367 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 2: pointing down into the valley. Ain't she beautiful? She certainly was, 368 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 2: thought George. The battered old Dasey three lay at the 369 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 2: end of the runway like a tiny silver cross. In 370 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 2: two hours she would be bearing them away to freedom insanity. 371 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 2: It was a thought worth savoring, Like a final liqueur. 372 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,679 Speaker 2: George let it roll around in his mind as the 373 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 2: pony trudged patiently down the slope. The swift night of 374 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 2: the high Himalayas was now almost upon them. Fortunately, the 375 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 2: road was very good, as roads went in that region, 376 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 2: and they were both carrying torches. There was not the 377 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 2: slightest danger, only a certain discomfort from the bitter cold. 378 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 2: The sky overhead was perfectly clear and a blaze with familiar, 379 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 2: friendly stars. At least there would be no risk, thought 380 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 2: George of the pilot being unable to take off because 381 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 2: of weather conditions. That had been his only remaining worry. 382 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 2: He began to sing, but gave it up after a while. 383 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 2: This vast arena of mountains gleaming like whitely hooded ghosts 384 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 2: on every side did not encourage such ebuliance. Presently, George 385 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 2: glanced at his watch. Should be there in an hour, 386 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 2: he called back over his shoulder to Chuck. Then he added, 387 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 2: in an afterthought, wonder if the computers finished its run. 388 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:41,360 Speaker 2: It was due about now. Chuck didn't reply, so George 389 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 2: swung round in his saddle. He could just see Chuck's face. 390 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 2: A white oval turned toward the sky, look whispered Chuck, 391 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 2: and George lifted his eyes to heaven. There is always 392 00:21:54,400 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 2: a last time for everything. Overhead, without any fuss, the 393 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 2: stars were going out. That's the story. Apparently at some 394 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 2: point the Dali Lama wrote Arthur C. Clark instead. I 395 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 2: read your story and found it very amusing, So that's fun. Yeah, 396 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 2: it got a pass from the people it was weirdly appropriating. 397 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 2: I guess. Yeah, it's overall self contained. But I have 398 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 2: a few thoughts about it. One that I didn't get 399 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 2: into this last reading. It's really funny to me that 400 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 2: the last trump is used instead of the last trumpet, 401 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 2: like as the way of signaling the end of the world. 402 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 2: And apparently that would be a way that you would 403 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 2: have said that in the fifties, and I just find 404 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 2: that very amusing based on the current state of the 405 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 2: political world or whatever. 406 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: Uh huh. Yeah. 407 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 2: The actual thing that I've been thinking about the reason 408 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 2: that I wanted to do this episode is that I 409 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,719 Speaker 2: just did a piece on cool people did cool stuff 410 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 2: about Ada Lovelace and you know, early software and mechanical 411 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 2: computers and things like that, right, Yeah, and she talked 412 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 2: very explicit about how computers are not capable and would 413 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 2: never be capable of creating things but instead like responding 414 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 2: to the inputs and things like that. It's gone on 415 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 2: to be like I don't have it in front of me, 416 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 2: but like Ada's objection or something was coined by the 417 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 2: gay British man who defeated the Nazis the computer guy 418 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 2: who invented computing. 419 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: Oh that guy, yeah, the guy that was killed for 420 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: being gay essentially. 421 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was like chemically castrated to the machine guy. Yeah, 422 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 2: that guy that we know everything about except the name 423 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 2: of because we're professionals exactly. 424 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. 425 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 2: So half of the listeners at least are now shouting 426 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 2: this man's name and frustration at us. 427 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: You know. What the cool thing is, though, is that 428 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 1: this is a podcast and I cannot hear them. 429 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. 430 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 1: I won't hear how for many Yeah, people is yelling 431 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 1: his name at me at the moment. Yeah. 432 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 2: So that man who we're gonna call George, he wrote 433 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,479 Speaker 2: Objection and it was about how computers do with it 434 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 2: what you have them do, you know, rather than being 435 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 2: like themselves a creative force. Okay, so this is the 436 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 2: wing nuttiest thing. This is why I wanted you to 437 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 2: be the guest for this. I've been thinking a lot 438 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 2: about how AI is like running through all possibilities of 439 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 2: creative things. Yeah, like systematically rather than like creatively. It's 440 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 2: just like what if all possible images are made? And 441 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 2: so it's kind of like I think, I don't know 442 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 2: if I really think this, but I've been thinking about it. 443 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 2: It's like running us towards the death of culture because 444 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 2: everything will have been like there's sort of an infinite 445 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 2: possibility of combinations of words that there's an infinite creative 446 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 2: output that could be made. But AI is like trying 447 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 2: to run through them as fast as possible. And we've 448 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 2: been kind of even before AI kind of doing that 449 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 2: as like culture speeds up. I don't know where I'm 450 00:24:58,160 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 2: going with that, but I just want to run that past. 451 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 2: As relates to this story. 452 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, now that I've heard the story, I can also 453 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: see the large number of influences it's had throughout culture, 454 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 1: like using computers to like pinpoint God. It is also 455 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: like weirdly like lovecrafting and story as well. Yeah, like 456 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: initiating an apocalypse by like naming by coming up with 457 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,879 Speaker 1: all of the utterances of god. 458 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 2: Oh, you're totally right, and this is years after Lovecraft, 459 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 2: so yeah, oh interesting, Okay. 460 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: I also just really like the turn to phrase the 461 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: stars are going out. It's like someone's like flicking off 462 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: the lights. I find that to be funn. 463 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 2: It's one of the best lines in literature overhead without 464 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 2: any fuss. The stars were going out. 465 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, very good. 466 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 2: And like how it changes on a dime this Like 467 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 2: you know earlier I said that it was like not 468 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 2: self consciously orientalist. Your two computer programmers consider themselves clearly 469 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 2: enlightened compared to these backwards people, even though all they 470 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 2: want to do is get back to TV. And there's 471 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 2: even kind of this thing. I have a feeling that 472 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 2: the author didn't specifically intend this, but I like reading 473 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 2: this kind of thing into it. The thing that is 474 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 2: going to carry them away from this backwards place is 475 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 2: a silver cross. They refer to the plane as a 476 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 2: silver cross, and we assume we know better, but we don't. 477 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, like human's own hubris is kind of I guess 478 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: a recurring trend in work kind of like this, And 479 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: I always have the impulse to comparison like this to 480 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 1: the other biggest case of Tibetan orientalism in fantasy and 481 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: science fiction, which would be Twin Peaks. We're also I 482 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 1: think one of the main cruxes is one of the 483 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: main character's own hubris and his inability to leave well 484 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: enough load. 485 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 2: So now you're going to destroy all of my goth cred. 486 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: No, Margaret, are you serious? 487 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 2: I have only seen like an episode. 488 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: Of Takes God. 489 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 2: No, I have seen so many movies by that man, 490 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 2: Jesus fucking Christ, and I have no idea why I 491 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 2: haven't seen Twin Peaks, And now I have lost thirty 492 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 2: percent of my friends. 493 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,719 Speaker 1: I'm showing Twin Peaks currently to like five different people. 494 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,439 Speaker 1: I've met so many different points in this series right 495 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: now because I'm watching it with so many other people 496 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: to give them the experience. I have had my apartment 497 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: turned into a Twin Peaks set. 498 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, and I'm very It's been part of 499 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 2: like the culture I've been in for a very long time. Yeah, 500 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 2: I think that's what it is. Is that I hit 501 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 2: this point where I was, like, I sat down to 502 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 2: watch it once Wait of No Return. It didn't immediately 503 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 2: catch me, but yeah, I hit the point of no 504 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 2: return where I was like too embarrassed to admit it. 505 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 2: So don't tell anyone, Garet, it's just between you and I. 506 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: I won't. This is a secret. Yeah, I'm yeah. I 507 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: will not spread this around. We don't want to damage 508 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 1: your rent. No, no, we can keep this contained. 509 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, irreversible damage. 510 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 1: I would recommend giving it a watch. 511 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 2: I will. 512 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: It has a lot of good Tibetan stuff, a lot 513 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: of good like exontential stuff, not in terms of computers, 514 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: but otherwise a lot of thematic similarities to this story. 515 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: And I would not be surprised if the co writer 516 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 1: Mark Frost was intimately familiar, because he pulls from a 517 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: lot of science fiction mythological stuff. In fact, the ending 518 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: of this story essentially happens at kind of multiple points 519 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 1: in Twin Peaks. It's quite good. It's quite good. 520 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 2: I think I wouldn't have been ready for it when 521 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 2: I first sat down to watch it, because I needed 522 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 2: my weirdness to be overtly gothic and weird, like it 523 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 2: needed to be like absolutely in a castle instead of 524 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 2: like in the mundane world, which is the beauty of 525 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 2: that guy Twin Peaks. 526 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: Guy Lynch. 527 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 2: Lynch is that he creates that sense within the every 528 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 2: day you know. 529 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And there's a few specific moments, especially in 530 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: Firewalk with Me and Season three that are like very 531 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: like American Gothic, like extremely very condensed. But the rest 532 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: of it, there's actually an interesting juxtaposition between like American 533 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 1: Gothic versus like Pacific Northwest New Weird, which are like 534 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: two sister genres, but they're not always the same thing. Yeah, 535 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: and Twin Peaks likes to kind of mix between the two, 536 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: and for the original series probably more often ends up 537 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: being in like P and W New Weird as opposed 538 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: to some of the American Gothics sensibilities it kind of 539 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: grows into. There's certainly some science fiction elements similar to 540 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: kind of how this story kind of blends that sort 541 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: of like orientalism with science fiction elements right well, And 542 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: actually this also ties in a lot if we're talking 543 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: about Arthur C. Clark in two thousand and one, there's also 544 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: a lot of carryover from two thousand and one into 545 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: Twin Peaks as well. A lot of that does come 546 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: from Kubrick, because Kubrick and Lynch were contemporaries, but some 547 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 1: that certainly would also stem from Arthur C. Clark's stuff. 548 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: But yeah, the ending of season two is very similar 549 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: in some ways to one part of the ending of 550 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: two thousand and one. There's a part that's very similar 551 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: to the Stargate sequence. There's a decent amount of crossover. 552 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: You can definitely read in some Arthur C. Clark undertones 553 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: across some of the more cosmic elements of Twin Peaks. 554 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 2: Well, that's what's so interesting about is overall Arthur C. 555 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 2: Clark's reputation as a science fiction author. 556 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: He's like a scientific realist in a lot of cases. 557 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 2: Exactly, he's specifically a scientific realist, and so this sort 558 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 2: of mystical element, Like people talk about this story as 559 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 2: being like outside of his traditional wheelhouse. So that was why, 560 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 2: you know, at the beginning, you were like, oh, Arthur 561 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 2: C. Clark wrote the science e boring bits of two thousand works, 562 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 2: and Kubrick did the like, but what if it's like 563 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 2: drugs and space part And that's what makes this sort 564 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 2: of interesting to me is a kind of a gate 565 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 2: into that there is like a certain level where if 566 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 2: you write about space and it's not fundamentally weird, you're 567 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 2: doing it wrong. Yeah, totally, and like it's kind of 568 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 2: part of the betrayal of Star Wars and shit, absolutely 569 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 2: I like Star Wars, but I mean space. 570 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: Is like it's literally right on the outside. You have 571 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: to incorporate us certain amount of outsideness into it or 572 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: else it won't feel correct. And I mean that goes 573 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: all the way back to Lovecraft, and you can can 574 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: incorporate that into like the cciu's cultural theoristic stuff in 575 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: terms of how they view science fiction. But no, it 576 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: has to have an element of outsideness, and that's something 577 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: I think this story gets to really well, especially you 578 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: have on almost like a caricter of Arthur C. Clark 579 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: within the scientists being like, Oh, they're gonna be so 580 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: bad with this mystical mumbo jumbo computer stuff doesn't end 581 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: up working, and then it still does, so there's that 582 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: little fun part and then it kind of introduces that 583 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: element of outsideness, which otherwise I think the story would 584 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: not be good at all if it just if. 585 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 2: It doesn't exactly, if it just ended. 586 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: With the thing not working, then it was like an 587 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: examination of like the failures to use technology to like 588 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: incorporate some kind of spiritual lightment like that does not 589 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: sound like a very interesting short story. 590 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 2: No, it would have not passed down through the generations 591 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 2: to you listeners today. 592 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: No, No, yeah, well, and then continuing on to two 593 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: thousand and one and then even twin peaks, like having 594 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: that element about sadness is what has made these things 595 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: like cultural touchstones for so long, and the emphasis on 596 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: not trying to explain everything with a scientific rationalization gives 597 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: these things a sense of like immortal intrigue that he 598 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: keeps lingering on our mind for so long. 599 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 2: When it's like I went and saw totality last week, 600 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,600 Speaker 2: you know, same as a lot of people, and as 601 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 2: the second time I got to see it, and the 602 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 2: first time I saw it, I was like, oh, I 603 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 2: have now looked into the eye of God. I know 604 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 2: what's happening. I know that the moon went in front 605 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 2: of the sun right like, but it doesn't make it not. 606 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 2: I am now looking at the thing that controls all 607 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 2: life on earth that we can't look at. You know, 608 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 2: if like you were just described the sun being like, oh, 609 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 2: there's this thing in the sky that you can't make 610 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 2: eye contact with or you'll it'll fuck you up. 611 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: Yeah it's God, you know, Yeah, like humans have known 612 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: this is god for like a long time. Almost all 613 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: of our gods are sun gods, Like we're very aware. 614 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I went and saw a star go out, 615 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 2: and you know, obviously I knew it was gonna come back, 616 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,479 Speaker 2: and like freaky though, I really like the fact that 617 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 2: knowing the science doesn't take away its power. It's interest. 618 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: It's awe. 619 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, all is the right. 620 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: Word quite literally, like it is like it is like 621 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:17,800 Speaker 1: a divine awe. 622 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 623 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: No, it is great to watch when everything goes dark 624 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: at three pm in the afternoon and shadows start creating 625 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: little cameras and your animals go crazy. Yes, they are 626 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: confused for what's happening. It is like a very divine experience. 627 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 2: Anyway, that's gonna do it for us Here at Cool 628 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 2: Zone Media book Club. If you enjoyed this podcast on 629 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 2: the Cool People Did Cool Stuff Feed, you should check 630 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 2: out that it could happen here feed that Gere is 631 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 2: a guest of Gary. You just did a good What's 632 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 2: it project seventy million Agenda forty seven Agenda forty seven, 633 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 2: which is the secondary highest number of synchronicity after twenty three, 634 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 2: So watch out for that, folks. And if you're listening 635 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 2: to something that can happen here. You can check me 636 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 2: out on Cool People Did Cool Stuff. I talk about 637 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 2: history and I also have a book that will be 638 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 2: going into pre order soon. It is my first novel. 639 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,759 Speaker 2: I've been as mentioned earlier, I've written an awful lot 640 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 2: of novellas, including very long novellas that whatever all categories 641 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 2: or social categorization. I have decided that this is my 642 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 2: first novel in the country. It goes as a long novella. 643 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 2: And this book is called The Sapling Cage and it 644 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 2: comes out on September twenty fourth from the Feminist Press 645 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 2: and you can check it out closer to them if 646 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 2: you pre order it. See y'all next week, Alan Turing. 647 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 648 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 649 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,439 Speaker 1: coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 650 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 651 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: find sources for It Could Happen here, updated monthly at 652 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 1: coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.