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Speaker 1: Okay, cam Firs, rise and shine and don't forget your

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Speaker 1: booties because it's cool out there today. Yes, I cliched

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Speaker 1: it up. I'm starting with a groundhog Day reference. I

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Speaker 1: don't yet have the finances to pay for I've got you,

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Speaker 1: babe or that, of course, So just have that in

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Speaker 1: the back of your head as you hear that. But

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Speaker 1: we are on groundhog Day with the shutdown. I certainly

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Speaker 1: have other topics I want to get to before I

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Speaker 1: get to my interview. My interview for this episode's a

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Speaker 1: terrific one with Paul Glastros, editor chief of the Washington Monthly.

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Speaker 1: But it's about a different way to rank colleges and universities.

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Speaker 1: You know, the US News rankings get all the attention

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Speaker 1: they just came out. Well, Washington Monthly has been doing

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Speaker 1: rankings themselves, basically almost as a counter and the Washington

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Speaker 1: Monthly Rankings tries to prioritize best bang for your buck.

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Speaker 1: Does your degree translate into moving up the economic ladder?

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Speaker 1: Do you what you get for the money that you

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Speaker 1: spend for your education? It, I'm telling you you will,

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Speaker 1: whether you have kids headed to college, whether you are

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Speaker 1: tired of paying your student loans, and you want to

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Speaker 1: hear about it, whether it's about saving for college in

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Speaker 1: any way, whatever you've done about this, trust me, you

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Speaker 1: will enjoy this conversation. I learned a lot about the

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Speaker 1: different ways of higher education. And one of the things

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Speaker 1: you got to remember about the United States. You know

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Speaker 1: we I think we have massive problems in primary and

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Speaker 1: secondary these days. Our public school system needs a massive

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Speaker 1: overhaul revamp. The privatization movement is probably uh, sort of

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Speaker 1: over over cranked here a little bit. It's it's the

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Speaker 1: whole thing is is a tapestry of of good intentions

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Speaker 1: but yet still bad outcomes. In the world of higher education,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we we have so many terrific

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Speaker 1: institutions in this country all over the country. It is

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Speaker 1: not you know, it is it is hard to say

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Speaker 1: that there is a state that has that doesn't have

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Speaker 1: a good higher education higher education school. So it is uh,

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Speaker 1: it's a fascinating conversation. I think you'll enjoy it. And

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Speaker 1: and you know, in the journalism world here in Washington,

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Speaker 1: a lot of us have known Paul for a long

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Speaker 1: time because he's been our In some cases, the Washington

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Speaker 1: Monthly would would be the first place to that some

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Speaker 1: of us got our long form magazine articles, and I

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Speaker 1: count myself among among one of those that was able

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Speaker 1: to get a byeline in the Monthly and among other

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Speaker 1: places when I was doing freelance during my days at

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Speaker 1: the hotline. So it is a always a privilege to

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Speaker 1: hear from Paul. He is he is certainly extraordine experience.

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Speaker 1: But this isn't I'm telling you. It's a great conversation

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Speaker 1: about college affordability, which of course is something I think

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Speaker 1: that touches so many of us. But here we are

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Speaker 1: with the shutdown, and look, I will fall on my

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Speaker 1: nostrodama sword. I really did think we were going to

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Speaker 1: be done after a week. I think we should be

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Speaker 1: done with this by now. I think the Democrats have

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Speaker 1: accomplished what they wanted to accomplish out of it politically.

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Speaker 1: Now they don't have an agreement yet to extend these

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Speaker 1: subsidies for the Affordable Care Act or Obamacare, whatever you

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Speaker 1: want to refer to it as. But it's pretty clear

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Speaker 1: that they've gotten the issue more front and center. They've

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Speaker 1: got more Republicans talking about it, They've got the President

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Speaker 1: of the United States concerned about it, they got the

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Speaker 1: Vice president. It is if they want, as I've said

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Speaker 1: in previous episodes this week, if they want to declare victory,

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Speaker 1: they could and say they got what they wanted to

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Speaker 1: get out of this. And if the Republicans back off

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Speaker 1: their agreement to try to hammer out a deal on Obamacare,

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Speaker 1: well this continuing Resolution is only for another six weeks,

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Speaker 1: so they have another leverage point. And I would say this,

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, there's no evidence that this is going

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Speaker 1: to and this weekend. I you know, so I was

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Speaker 1: wrong about that, but we're going to be missing a paycheck.

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Speaker 1: The first paycheck missing happens at the beginning of next week.

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Speaker 1: We've got already impacts on the traveling public right now.

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Speaker 1: You know, I didn't have any problems going from lax

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Speaker 1: to Washington Dulles after visiting USC. But I promise you

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Speaker 1: if you're traveling, whether it's Nashville, Indianapolis, Des Moines, Albuquerque,

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Speaker 1: any slightly smaller market than some of the large ones,

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Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't take too many air traffic controllers

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Speaker 1: in that region to suddenly call in sick to where

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Speaker 1: you're grounding all flights. Right. It had a huge impact

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Speaker 1: in Nashville a couple of days ago, this is in

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Speaker 1: the LA area. Burbank essentially had to go to a

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Speaker 1: ground stop for a few hours the other day. So

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Speaker 1: this is only going to grow. This is only going

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Speaker 1: to get worse. And this is where the more the

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Speaker 1: public is personally impacted by these things, the more they're

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Speaker 1: going to be upset at all parties involved, and they

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Speaker 1: may no longer be as focused on the issue that

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Speaker 1: I do think Democrats have successfully gotten into the pushed

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Speaker 1: into the zeitgeist here a little bit. Look, it's hard

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Speaker 1: for any issue to break through in the Trump era

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Speaker 1: for any given period of time, but this issue of

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Speaker 1: health care certainly has the attention of the Republicans on this.

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Speaker 1: So now it's a game of chicken and the longer, frankly,

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Speaker 1: if I look on the Democratic side, the longer they

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Speaker 1: hold out what I say yesterday, then this really isn't

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Speaker 1: about health care. This is about something else. And frankly,

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Speaker 1: it is about something else, right. It is about the

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Speaker 1: fact that Donald Trump is not respecting the Constitution, he's

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Speaker 1: not respecting the appropriations process, he's not respecting the legislative branch.

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Speaker 1: But the Democrats have a problem. They're not in charge

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Speaker 1: of the legislative branch right now, it's the Republicans who

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Speaker 1: are allowing the executive branch to steamroll them because they're

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Speaker 1: the ones in charge, and it's an issue that's hard

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Speaker 1: to get the public to rally around. They're going to

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Speaker 1: rally around things and impact their lives. Yes, what's happening

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Speaker 1: with the misuse of appropriations and the sort of the

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Speaker 1: aggressive nature of what O and B has tried to

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Speaker 1: do is impactful on people's lives, but it's much harder

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Speaker 1: for them to see it. You know, it's healthcare hits

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Speaker 1: their bottom line. That this is premiums doubling. That that

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Speaker 1: is the cost to live issue, which of course has

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Speaker 1: arguably been what's been hanging over our politics since we

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Speaker 1: got out of the COVID shutdown. And I think in

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Speaker 1: some ways, the healthcare the rising healthcare premiums would only

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Speaker 1: feed into the cost of to live issues that the

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Speaker 1: araffs and some of the other policies that President Trump

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Speaker 1: has pursued has done. I mean, we are, as I

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Speaker 1: said before, we we have this weird economy that will

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Speaker 1: statistically look good for those that have money, but it

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Speaker 1: is completely impossible to catch up or get ahead, or

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Speaker 1: if you don't already have a little bit of savings earning,

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Speaker 1: you know, or taking advantage of the supercharged markets that

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Speaker 1: we have right now, fueled by all of this artificial

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Speaker 1: intelligence investment. So we are in a situation where either

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Speaker 1: party can end the shutdown right now. Democrats could declare victory,

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Speaker 1: provide the eight votes, open the government up, and have

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Speaker 1: six weeks to hold them accountable again if they don't

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Speaker 1: come to the table. And of course Republicans could open

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Speaker 1: the government right now themselves. They don't need a single

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Speaker 1: Democratic vote. They'd have to get rid of the filibuster,

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Speaker 1: but they could do it on a party line vote

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Speaker 1: anytime they wanted to. So we are in the This

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Speaker 1: is a choice aspect of the shutdown. This is truly

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Speaker 1: a choice. And I just would warn Democrats on this one.

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Speaker 1: You've you've had some success here getting this issue more

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Speaker 1: front and center in the public's mind, but by the way,

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Speaker 1: your negatives are rising as a political party over the

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Speaker 1: pulling that that that matriculated out this past week one

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Speaker 1: on two, and that risks potentially at some point, the

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Speaker 1: more Americans have their lives disrupted, the more they're likely

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Speaker 1: to then sour on everybody and then whatever slight even

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Speaker 1: issue advantage of just getting the healthcare issue into the

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Speaker 1: ether disappears, and then it becomes, well, what did you

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Speaker 1: gain for all that adjuta with the shutdown? So you

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Speaker 1: know there's a there's there's a point of diminishing returns here.

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Speaker 1: At what point does Team Blue see that? We shall

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Speaker 1: find out. But again, before I get to a few

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Speaker 1: other issues I want to get to, Republicans could just

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Speaker 1: do it on their own if they chose to. They're

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Speaker 1: also apparently don't mind, and that that gets sort of

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Speaker 1: what I said yesterday my groundhog Day response here, which

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Speaker 1: is I think the base of both parties think they're winning,

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Speaker 1: and so when you think you're winning, you don't want

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Speaker 1: to stop. The problem is is how big you know,

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Speaker 1: first of all, your feedback loop is is unfortunately very small.

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Speaker 1: You know, where's everybody else? How big is the everybody

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Speaker 1: else pile there? And I think that's that's an open question.

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Speaker 1: But look, the the other issue that's sort of front

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Speaker 1: and center for a lot of people is what's happening

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Speaker 1: in Chicago and this sort of showdown between the Trump

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Speaker 1: administration and the governor of Illinois and the mayor of Chicago.

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Speaker 1: This is you know this it it is a few updates. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: you had the president escal his war of words with

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Speaker 1: the mayor and the governor, calling on the Democratic leaders

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Speaker 1: to be impeached, actually be imprisoned for failing to protect

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Speaker 1: ice officers. Trump wrote on his truth social post, Chicago

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Speaker 1: mayor should be in jail for failing to protect ice officers.

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Speaker 1: Governor Pritzker also, I don't think anybody's saying that they're

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Speaker 1: not protecting ice officers here. But of course this is

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Speaker 1: this sort of the the the pretext that it appears

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Speaker 1: the Trump administration is trying to create in order to

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Speaker 1: force this situation. I have to say, the most bizarre

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Speaker 1: aspect of all this is the is what the state

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Speaker 1: of Texas agreed to do? You know, It's one thing, Look,

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Speaker 1: the President has the authority to federalize the National Guard

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Speaker 1: in Illinois, so he did it. But to use Texas

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Speaker 1: troops to essentially invade Illinois, right, and I don't you know,

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Speaker 1: I know, it can come across that everybody's getting very

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Speaker 1: dramatic here about some of these things. But nobody seems

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Speaker 1: to remember the golden rule in life or in politics. Right,

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Speaker 1: do unto others as you want done unto you. And

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Speaker 1: I asked the governor of Texas, how would you feel

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Speaker 1: if a Democratic president decided to send an a governor

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Speaker 1: of Illinois decided to offer up National Guard troops to

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Speaker 1: occupy a city in Texas, right without the governor's essentially acquiescence.

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Speaker 1: I think I know where Texans would stand on this.

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Speaker 1: And that's the point here. Nobody seems to be thinking about,

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Speaker 1: Oh is you know what happens if the roles are reversed? Right,

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Speaker 1: And this has certainly been a virus. It's in our

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Speaker 1: politics these days where nobody thinks of the of the

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Speaker 1: reactionary consequence to anything. We don't treat people the way

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Speaker 1: we want to be treated. In some ways, we're treating

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Speaker 1: people the way we we think how poorly we're being

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Speaker 1: treated right. Part of that is internet brain, right. I

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Speaker 1: think there's way too many people right now in high

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Speaker 1: level leadership positions on the left and the right who

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Speaker 1: are live online and don't live in the real world.

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Speaker 1: And so I do think this is why there's a

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Speaker 1: disconnect between those that are extraordinarily alarmed by what's happening

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Speaker 1: and those that are like, here we go again with

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Speaker 1: with things now. I would say, you know, the courts

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Speaker 1: are are playing a role here and are providing you know,

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Speaker 1: the Constitution hasn't been shredded yet. Okay uh, And I

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Speaker 1: think that should be seen as a positive and not

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Speaker 1: something that is that is that is me being naive

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Speaker 1: on this front. We had a federal judge in Chicago

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Speaker 1: on Wednesday extending a nationwide consent decree that requires ICE

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Speaker 1: to better document and report probable cause for their immigration arrests,

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Speaker 1: and they have found this judge found that the agency

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Speaker 1: repeatedly has violated the twenty twenty two agreement by making

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Speaker 1: warrantless arrests, both before and during what they called Operation

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Speaker 1: Midway Blitz. The judge also took particular issue with the

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Speaker 1: practice by ICE agents here, according to the Chicago Tribune,

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Speaker 1: of carrying blank warrant forms known as I two hundreds

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Speaker 1: with them on missions and essentially filling them out at

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Speaker 1: the scene. Right, they cannot prove that where they're going

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Speaker 1: that there was a there was a criminal intent by

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Speaker 1: the person that they believe is in this country illegally,

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Speaker 1: so they're basically, you know, getting there and then coming

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Speaker 1: up filling out the form to try to try to

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Speaker 1: sort of come up with a legal pretext after the fact,

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Speaker 1: and the judges, rightfully, I think, lectured them about this.

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Speaker 1: And I can't imagine this one that this part of

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Speaker 1: the ruling somehow gets over overturned or overruled by a

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Speaker 1: higher court. We'll see on that front. But I think

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Speaker 1: more importantly it's what is the public see and what

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Speaker 1: are they thinking? Right? If you live online, right, if

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Speaker 1: you live only in the blue sphere, this is the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the end of the republic. If you only

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Speaker 1: live in the red sphere, it's about time that the

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Speaker 1: federal government did something that the mayors and the governor

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Speaker 1: refused to do in protecting Americans. Right. But the question

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Speaker 1: is that we live we you know, most of the

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Speaker 1: rest of us live in this gray area. And what's

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Speaker 1: interesting about the polling here is that there's there's comfort

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Speaker 1: in the poll numbers for both sides, and there's warnings

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Speaker 1: in the poll numbers for both sides. So there's a

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Speaker 1: new Reuter's zipso's poll that shows fifty eight percent of Americans,

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Speaker 1: including seventy percent of Democrats and fifty percent of Republicans,

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Speaker 1: they feel the president should only deploy armed troops to

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Speaker 1: face quote external threats. Now, part of that may explain

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Speaker 1: why the president and Stephen Miller in particular, keep using

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Speaker 1: overheated rhetoric to describe what they say ICE agents are

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Speaker 1: dealing with and what they say the threat is from

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Speaker 1: some of these undocumented immigrants. But it is there's clearly

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Speaker 1: a line here where the more militarized this looks, the

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Speaker 1: more uncomfortable the public gets, including plenty of Republicans. Now,

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Speaker 1: that said, and what's interesting here is that there is

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Speaker 1: not a majority that believe that the president has some

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Speaker 1: sort of huge authority to do this. Thirty seven percent

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Speaker 1: agree that the presidents of either party should have the

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Speaker 1: power to deploy troops into states even when state governors object,

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Speaker 1: but forty eight percent disagree with that, And in fact,

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Speaker 1: eighty three percent overall in this poll agreed that the

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Speaker 1: military quote should remain politically neutral and not take a

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Speaker 1: side in a domestic policy debate. Now, there's another poll

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Speaker 1: that was out in the New York Times seeing a poll,

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Speaker 1: and it's part of the same poll that came out

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Speaker 1: last week that I was telling you about. But they

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Speaker 1: released their immigration questions on Wednesday, and essentially it's showing

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Speaker 1: you the same thing that I've been telling you for

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Speaker 1: a while, which is a majority agree with the goal

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Speaker 1: of what Trump is doing, but a majority don't like

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Speaker 1: how he's trying to do it. Let me put some

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Speaker 1: numbers around that. Fifty four percent of registered voters broadly

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Speaker 1: favored deporting immigrants living in the country illegally. Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: ninety percent among Republicans, fifty two percent among independent and

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Speaker 1: about twenty percent of Democrats think this. Now, you'll see

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Speaker 1: on that issue of mass deportation, independence much closer to

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Speaker 1: Republicans than they are Democrats. Right, it's a majority of independents.

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Speaker 1: That to me a little warning sign there for Democrats

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Speaker 1: on their stance on immigration. Now, that said, fifty three

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Speaker 1: percent of voters feel the process of deporting people has

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Speaker 1: not been fair, and forty four percent said it was

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Speaker 1: mostly fair. So that tells you in fifty two percent

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Speaker 1: of those surveyed also disapproved of Trump's handling of immigration.

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Speaker 1: The point is this, a majority of people in this

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Speaker 1: country do think that too many people were let in

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Speaker 1: illegally and many of them should be returned. But there

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Speaker 1: is a discomfort in the aggressive tactics that are being used,

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Speaker 1: and the more that is front and Center, the more

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Speaker 1: Americans may sour on the policy itself, but this is

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Speaker 1: to me the warning sign here a little bit. What's

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Speaker 1: interesting is fifty one percent said they thought the government

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Speaker 1: was deporting mostly people who quote should be deported. Forty

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Speaker 1: two percent of the government was deporting the wrong people.

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Speaker 1: But there's a narrow majority there. So the point is

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Speaker 1: is that Democrats have to find realize that a majority

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Speaker 1: in this country want the law followed. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: a majority of the country's more open to immigration than

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Speaker 1: perhaps the Trump administration is behaving. So like everything in

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Speaker 1: our politics, there's more nuanced in gray area than the

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Speaker 1: two parties are presenting each other. But it is where

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Speaker 1: we are at this moment. I do think the Trump

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Speaker 1: White House believes that Pritzker and Mayor Johnson are good

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Speaker 1: foils for them politically. I think they're personalizing this on purpose,

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Speaker 1: and Pritzker and Johnson are playing right into it because

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Speaker 1: I think they think it's good politics to get personal

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Speaker 1: right back. It is worth noting that Trump put out

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Speaker 1: that truth social statement on Wednesday after Pritzker on Tuesday

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Speaker 1: night opened wondered aloud whether Trump has dementia, So it

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Speaker 1: is certainly getting personal and in that sense, that's also

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Speaker 1: a bit of a you know, it goes back to

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Speaker 1: my whole who's going to be the adult in the room.

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Speaker 1: And when you start to go name calling against Trump,

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Speaker 1: you have to remember the rule of the pig, which

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Speaker 1: is careful getting to a mudfight with a pig, because

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Speaker 1: you'll both get dirty and the pig will enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: This is a classic case. You want to get into

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Speaker 1: a name calling fight with Donald Trump, He's always willing

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Speaker 1: to go lower, He's always going to be more outlandish,

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Speaker 1: go to places you'll never be comfortable going, and you'll

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Speaker 1: look and then all of a sudden, you'll look feckless

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Speaker 1: for some reason. So it's warning there, and it's obvious

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Speaker 1: what the political motivation is there. Clearly is an attempt

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Speaker 1: by the Trump administration. Perhaps this is the Stephen Miller

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Speaker 1: plan to create a confrontation, to create a pretext to

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Speaker 1: then do more of this and get more aggressive of

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Speaker 1: these tactics. But the political warning signed to Miller and

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Speaker 1: the Trump White House is the more aggressive they get,

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Speaker 1: the more Americans are going to turn on them on this,

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Speaker 1: and even among Republicans, so as much as it looks

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Speaker 1: as if they're completely ignoring sort of the reality of

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Speaker 1: the situation, and they're frankly lying about the threat, the

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Speaker 1: level of threat that folks in Chicago are dealing with.

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Speaker 1: There's real political risk in how they're handling this, just

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Speaker 1: as much as there's real risk for Democrats not looking

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Speaker 1: like they're not in favor of the rule of law either.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to deal I will say this, I'm not.

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Speaker 1: The reason I'm not my hair's not on fire on

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Speaker 1: this is that I do think the system is working

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Speaker 1: more than it isn't right. The courts are having their say.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of loud rhetoric from Stephen Miller, irresponsible rhetoric,

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Speaker 1: but they're biting by the court rulings. So I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying this is something we shouldn't be concerned about. We

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Speaker 1: should be on high alert about. They should, but we

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Speaker 1: got to continue to use the system itself to enact

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Speaker 1: the guardrails rather than trying to take matters into anybody's

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Speaker 1: own hands. There's a reason results matter more than promises,

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Speaker 1: just like there's a reason Morgan and Morgan is America's

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Speaker 1: largest injury law firm. For the last thirty five years,

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Speaker 1: they've recovered twenty five billion dollars for more than half

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Speaker 1: a million clients. It includes cases where insurance companies offered

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Speaker 1: next to nothing, just hoping to get away with paying

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Speaker 1: as little as possible. Morgan and Morgan fought back ended

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Speaker 1: up winning millions. In fact, in Pennsylvania, one client was

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Speaker 1: awarded twenty six million dollars, which was a staggering forty

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Speaker 1: times the amount that the insurance company originally offered. That

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Speaker 1: original offer six hundred and fifty thousand dollars twenty six million,

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Speaker 1: six hundred fifty thousand dollars. So with more than one

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Speaker 1: thousand lawyers across the country, they know how to deliver

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Speaker 1: for everyday people. If you're injured, you need a lawyer.

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Speaker 1: You need somebody to get your back. Check out for

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Speaker 1: the People dot com, Slash podcast, or dial pound Law

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Speaker 1: Pound five two nine law on your cell phone. And

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Speaker 1: remember all law firms are not the same. So check

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Speaker 1: out Morgan and Morgan. Their fee is free unless they win.

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Speaker 1: All right, A few other notes that I want to

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Speaker 1: get to before we get to the interview with mister Glastrous.

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Speaker 1: The DNC is starting to circulate its after action report

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Speaker 1: on the twenty twenty four election Politico has gotten a

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Speaker 1: few sources to talk about the thwart of top lines

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Speaker 1: that are being circulated to certain Democratic leaders. And here's

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Speaker 1: sort of the early take on this. According to the

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Speaker 1: political report, DNC officials argued Democrats this is I'm reading

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Speaker 1: directly from the political article. DNC officials argued Democrats didn't

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Speaker 1: spend early or consistently enough to engage and persuade voters,

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Speaker 1: one of several problems the party faced in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: According to the committee, swapping Joe Biden with Kamala Harris

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Speaker 1: the top of the ticket intensify those systemic long term

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Speaker 1: problems for the party, the official said. And this is

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Speaker 1: according to two people that were briefed by the DNC

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Speaker 1: this week and granted anonymity to discuss the conversations for

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Speaker 1: what it's worth. So far, in these early briefings of

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Speaker 1: this after action report, the so called autopsy of twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four by the DNZ, Biden's age has not come

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Speaker 1: up now. The DNC officials also said the party's failure

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Speaker 1: to respond to voters's top issues led to losses across

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Speaker 1: once core constituencies, including class voters. That is one of

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Speaker 1: those duh right. When you don't talk about the issue

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Speaker 1: that's of most concerned to the voters, you're going to

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Speaker 1: likely be on the losing end of an election. I'm

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Speaker 1: glad it's taken them eight months to write an autopsy

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Speaker 1: to come to that conclusion on that front. Another person

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Speaker 1: briefed on the report said that they understood the assessment

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Speaker 1: to mean that Democrats quote didn't talk enough about bread

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Speaker 1: and butter issues, and instead we talked about social issues,

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Speaker 1: social anxieties. Now here's the thing. This idea that the

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Speaker 1: Democrats didn't spend early enough actually doesn't fit the facts.

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Speaker 1: The Joe back when Biden was still actively running for president,

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Speaker 1: their campaign actually bought twenty five million dollars worth of

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Speaker 1: ads in September of twenty twenty three. It was earlier

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Speaker 1: than either Barack Obama or Donald Trump aired ads during

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Speaker 1: their first reelections. They also spent another thirty million dollars

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Speaker 1: on ads in March on twenty four So, and they

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Speaker 1: were arguing. Biden's team at the time was arguing, according

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Speaker 1: to Political that this early investment for activate key voters.

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Speaker 1: So I'm confused here the DNC is claiming it was

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Speaker 1: too late of investments and money in this idea when

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Speaker 1: actually Democrats had the advantage early with money. Look, it

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Speaker 1: sounds like this autopsy is going to end up if

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Speaker 1: this is what it is, If this is what they concluded,

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Speaker 1: then they've it is just a a whole bunch of

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Speaker 1: words to not say what the real problem was, which

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Speaker 1: is Joe Biden shouldn't have run. Joe Biden didn't have

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Speaker 1: the capacity to articulate the message that they needed to do.

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Speaker 1: But more importantly, the Biden white House totally disagreed with

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Speaker 1: the public on what the top issue was. Remember you

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Speaker 1: had the Biden white House putting out surrogates constantly saying,

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Speaker 1: the economy is recovering, the economy is great, look at

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Speaker 1: all the job creation. And they kept arguing making the

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Speaker 1: job create argument, saying, this economy, you know, pay no

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Speaker 1: attention to what the rest of the country essentially we don't,

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Speaker 1: you know, pay no attention to what you think the

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Speaker 1: problem is with the economy, I e. Costs. You should

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Speaker 1: listen to us and we'll tell you that the economy

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Speaker 1: is okay. I mean it is, so this initial if

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Speaker 1: this is really the autopsy, it tells me that they're

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Speaker 1: just trying to I don't know Are they protecting people's

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Speaker 1: personal feelings or is it just I mean, do you

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Speaker 1: need an autopsy to find out you had a candidate

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Speaker 1: that wasn't capable of running for president? That was the issue.

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Speaker 1: He couldn't sell his agenda, and then more importantly, whoever

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Speaker 1: was surrounding him totally misread the did have any clue

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Speaker 1: at what the country was upset about, which was the

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Speaker 1: cost to live. I don't know what more the autopsy

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Speaker 1: should say other than that, and you know, other than

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Speaker 1: you know, do they do they want to try to

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Speaker 1: light on fire certain consulting groups or people. Obviously a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of people made a whole bunch of money

432
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: based on bad strategy. Okay, that's a fair point. But

433
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 1: on the other hand, considering how poorly all of this

434
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: was handled, the fact that they came essentially about one

435
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: hundred thousand voters away from winning the electoral college is

436
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: still pretty remarkable. Again, if Kamala Harris simply flips Michigan, Wisconsin,

437
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: and Pennsylvania, she's at two hundred and seventy electoral votes.

438
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: So they're going to release the whole thing. Apparently they're

439
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: going to release the whole thing after this November's elections.

440
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 1: But it is if this is what the early word is,

441
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: I don't know if anything's going to be learned from this.

442
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: To me, if the autopsy doesn't say, hey, the DNC

443
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: has done a terrible job over the last fifteen years

444
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: in registering voters, then to me, the entire autopsy is

445
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: worthless because that has sort of been one of the

446
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: major problems. The party has had a complete and utter

447
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 1: dismissiveness of the fact that they were losing voters, basically

448
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: leaking voters for the last decade. And now, of course

449
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: you sort of see the accumulation of lost party registrations

450
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: and it is it is shocking what the numbers are.

451
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: It is almost a ten to one. Look, Republicans have

452
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 1: lost registered voters over the last few years, and so

453
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: of Democrats. Literally it's a ten to one ratio. Democrats

454
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: are losing ten voters for every one voter the Republicans

455
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: are losing. That is an unsustainable path on that front.

456
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: A few updates on Virginia. It does appear that everybody

457
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: is going to rally around for now, rally around on

458
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: the Democratic side, Jay Jones, I want to read you

459
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: a few statements that A few state Democrats are. They're

460
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 1: rationales for sticking by for sticking by Jones, the Attorney

461
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: general nominee, who, of course had those text messages that

462
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: were sort of fantasizing about the death of a former

463
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: Assembly speaker's kids. Virginia State Senator Lamont Bagbee, who chairs

464
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: the state's Democratic Party, asked the following question in an

465
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 1: interview and asked whether Jones should resign, and his response

466
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 1: was Republicans that are asking him to resign, where were

467
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: they when Trump and other Republicans have made their comments? Ah,

468
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: the old what aboutism defense? And another I want to

469
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: read you one more. West Belamy, a well connected progressive

470
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: activist who teaches at Virginia State University, said the following.

471
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: People on the left feel as if they have to

472
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: be the perfect, highest moral individuals in the world. Normal

473
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: everyday people stay stupid things and text messages online all

474
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 1: the time. If that is the thing that means the

475
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: Democratic ticket doesn't win the election, then they've got bigger issues. Look,

476
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: I don't think this is going to take down the

477
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: entire Democratic ticket. It probably is only going to take

478
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: down his His own candidacy could make the LG race

479
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: a lot closer, and maybe Spanburger wins by single digits

480
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: and it costs them some opportunities and down the ballot

481
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: and state legislative races and things like that. But this

482
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: public defense, this is exactly what I've been sort of

483
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: ranting about now for a few months, that the rationales

484
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: that many Republicans would use to overlook hateful and violent

485
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 1: rhetoric from Donald Trump and some of his supporters, and

486
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: the sort of oh, can't you take a joke and

487
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: nobody it's not that serious that the democratic defense of

488
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: when somebody on their side sort of behaves similarly as well,

489
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: is now going to go to the same thing. Is

490
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: that really the answer? I go back to the whole

491
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: golden rule. Right, you do unto others as you want

492
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: done under you. Right. And the Texas governor has decided

493
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 1: he is going to trounce on the tenth Amendment when

494
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: it comes to the state of Illinois. But he has

495
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: no apparently he is not worried about Texas's rights being

496
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: trampled upon if the roles were reversed. Okay, didn't hear right?

497
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: You know, if we are trying to tone the rhetoric down,

498
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: then somebody's got to got to take the high ground here,

499
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: somebody's got to want to have some moral authority here,

500
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: and these defenses and look, in fairness, not many well

501
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: known Democrats are willing to stick by and make the

502
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: defense like that. But that mindset, and I know it's

503
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: there in the base of the party. I get it.

504
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: They look at what the Republican, what Trump and his

505
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: minions get away with and think, geez, it doesn't hurt them,

506
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: So why do we care so much about it? And

507
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, there's still a vast chunk in the middle

508
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: who do care about ethics, who do care a little

509
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 1: bit about character, who do want somebody to try to

510
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: pretend to be a role model for doing this the

511
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: right way instead of the wrong way. So you know,

512
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: I'm sort of shaking my head, but I will I

513
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: would be a little leary Democrats of giving up the

514
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: adult in the room voter, who I do believe they've

515
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: had an inside track on essentially during most of the

516
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: Trump era. But if you can't beat them join a mindset,

517
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: I don't know what happens. Then you don't know where

518
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: this goes. There's a go third party, does it go splintering?

519
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: There's a lot of ways that this could go. A

520
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: few campaign notes before we get to the interview with Paul,

521
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: I think we have another Democrat to add to the

522
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: presidential list. So we told you Andy Basheer has been

523
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: in New Hampshire. He was just there this week. I

524
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: told you there was already a pro Palestinian group running

525
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: an attack ad on Bashir. Sort of an early warning shot.

526
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 1: I think to all presidential candidates that there are going

527
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: to be some activist groups that are going to want

528
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: to make Israel and arming Israel e litmus test. Well,

529
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: we've got additional Democrats on the schedule in New Hampshire.

530
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: Chris Murphy. I think many people already knew the Connecticut

531
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: Democratic senator was sort of at least toying with a

532
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: national campaign in twenty twenty eight. He's going to do

533
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: a town all in New Hampshire November twelve. But Alyssa Slockton,

534
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 1: the first term senator from Michigan, is going to headline

535
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: a fundraiser for the Manchester Democratic Dinner on October fifteenth.

536
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: As my friend Chris Eliza likes to say, you know,

537
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 1: nobody shows up to ior in New Hampshire by accident

538
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: without at least you know, they're kicking the tires on something.

539
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: And what's interesting about Slockton is this is she's doing

540
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: this within about two weeks of Gretchen Whitmer, the term

541
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: limited governor of Michigan, sort of indicating that she's probably

542
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: not going to run for president in twenty twenty eight.

543
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: That's that she hopes to be participating in what's next,

544
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: but that she probably wouldn't be at the top of

545
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 1: the ticket herself. Is this is this coincidence? Is this related?

546
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 1: Let's just say inquiring minds want to know. And a

547
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: few other California notes. I was just out in California.

548
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 1: First of all, it does look like the redistricting effort

549
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: it is. I think Gavin Newsom's gonna win this prop.

550
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: It looks like they've successfully turned this into a referendum

551
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,919
Speaker 1: on Trump, which was the way to win this.

552
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 2: Uh.

553
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: And it also looks like money is drying up on

554
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 1: the No side of things. Kevin McCarthy, according to punch

555
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: Bull News, who had pledged to raise and spend one

556
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars to try to defeat the proposition in

557
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: the November elections, has so far only been able to

558
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: spend seven million, So it does seem as if that

559
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: it's possible. Some money is drying up. So if you're

560
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: you're if you're keeping track of the redistricting wars, so

561
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: if California is going to happen, and Tech this is

562
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: going to happen, they've canceled each other out. So now

563
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: it becomes this sort of knife fight one by one.

564
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: So we're gonna have Missouri, you might have Indiana. Then

565
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 1: there's the Utah redraw. There could be now a Maryland redraw.

566
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 1: Does Florida get into the game, right, There is another

567
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: potential seat or two they could attempt in Broward County,

568
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: if you remember my interview with Jared Moskowitz, even w

569
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: Wasserman Schultz's district, they think maybe they could they sort

570
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: of stretch it across Alligator Alley and essentially try to

571
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 1: create districts that would have nothing in common. I mean,

572
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: trust me, growing up in South Florida, you know, the

573
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: Fort Myers and Fort Lauderdale have nothing in common that

574
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: much other than one's on water and the others on water.

575
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: But one's on an ocean and one's in a gulf.

576
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: Right it is, but it is too far away to

577
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: call it a community of interest, but that doesn't mean

578
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: that isn't how they might attempt to draw the map

579
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,800
Speaker 1: and make a couple of Democrats in the Broward County

580
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 1: area a little more a little more vulnerable. But if

581
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: we do have sort of this standoff between California and Texas,

582
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 1: then it probably means at best Republicans are gonna net

583
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: maybe three or four I think max out of this

584
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: redistricting effort now in an extraordinarily close midterm election, that

585
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 1: could be the difference. And if it is that close,

586
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: and to me, Democrats already have lost, right if they

587
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: if they can't make this where they're sort of winning

588
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: the national argument, you know, in the generic ballot five six,

589
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: seven points, well then you know we're going to be

590
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,720
Speaker 1: looking at, you know, two or three seats on either side.

591
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: And speaking of California, I think what's notable if you're

592
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, my guess is you've already seen

593
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: the Katie Porter, the former member of Congress who lost

594
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: a Senate campaign against Adam Schiff, has been the nominal

595
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: front runner for governor ever since Kulanakis got out of

596
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: the race and Kamala Harris announced she wasn't going to run,

597
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,720
Speaker 1: so Katie Bore has kind of been the front runner.

598
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: I've never really thought of her as the frontrunner because

599
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,760
Speaker 1: I think Rick Caruso, the guy who lost the mayor's

600
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: race to Karen Bass in LA, when he jumps in,

601
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 1: he was likely going to be the new front runner

602
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 1: when he gets in. My guess is he gets in

603
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: after the November elections. But for now, Porter had been

604
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: the one. She had the most name ID from her

605
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: previous campaign for Senate, so she'd been ahead, but she

606
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: was like in the twenties, you know in some of

607
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: these polls. Well, anyway, that the viral interview, I'm not

608
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: going to sort of describe it in detail because it's

609
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: been everywhere. I think what's notable is how much both

610
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: Republicans and Democrats piled on this. Plenty of us who

611
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: have covered Katie Porter, covered Congress, covered the California delegation,

612
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: and have known that she's not very popular among Democrats.

613
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: You know, she may be popular among MSNBC viewers and

614
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 1: among many progressive activists, but among the sort of insider crowd,

615
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: she wasn't very popular, and not because of her stances,

616
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: but sort of because of her attitude. It's sort of

617
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: how she went about it. You know, she's in some

618
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: ways what's good outsider politics is not always good insider camaraderie.

619
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: And frankly, if you're going to be governor, you got

620
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: to you gotta work with other people. I think her

621
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: inability to handle what wasn't tough questions, these weren't hard questions,

622
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: it makes me wonder has she spent too much time

623
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: in a blue safe space when she interacts with maybe

624
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: blue leaning media that don't challenge her, and these were

625
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: lightly challenging questions. I mean, no, I'm not disrespecting the

626
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: reporter at all. I think the reporter it's clear what

627
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: she was doing. She was doing a larger package and

628
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 1: talking to all the candidates. You know, I think she

629
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 1: made that, made that pretty clear. But you want to

630
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: be governor of the world's fifth largest economy and you

631
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: can't handle a tiny bit of a tiny bit of

632
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: a follow up question about Trump voters and you sort

633
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,439
Speaker 1: of lose it really quickly. I mean, you're not gonna

634
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: be able to control every setting in politics no matter

635
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: where you go. So but the most notable thing about

636
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: this is not the incident itself. To me, it's how

637
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: much everybody else piled on. She does not have a

638
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 1: reservoir of goodwill inside the Democratic Party, it seems. And

639
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: I think the way she behaved after losing, after not

640
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: making it into the top two with Adam Shift in

641
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: the Senate race, and you know, she she just she didn't,

642
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: you know, she was angry that Adam Schiff played to win. Right,

643
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: So Adam Schiff spent money promoting Steve Garvey during that

644
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: prime process so that Garvy would be seen as the

645
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 1: chief Republican opposition to Shift. And so that way the

646
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: top two face off would be Shift versus Garvey. D

647
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: versus are very easy campaign for Shift to win, rather

648
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: than Shift versus Porter, which would have been D versus

649
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 1: D might have been very awkward and a much closer race,

650
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: much more competitive, and we don't know which way it

651
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: would go. Obviously, Porter was still very bitter about it,

652
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: and sort of the way she went about it, you know,

653
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: it was sort of like sour grapes that Adam Shift

654
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: did something, you know, did a campaign tactic that is

655
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: not new, not that controversial anymore. It's sort of how

656
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: you you know, he had the resources to do it,

657
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 1: and because she didn't have the same resources in him.

658
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:57,320
Speaker 1: She was frustrated that he got to have more impact

659
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: on who he got to run against than she could.

660
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 1: And so I do think that how she how she

661
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: carried herself in losing that primary didn't exactly win her

662
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 1: a lot of friends outside of her core base of supporters.

663
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 1: So this was a red flag and probably probably the

664
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 1: type of thing that will be hard for her to

665
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:29,720
Speaker 1: to shake off, especially since how how easily everybody seemed

666
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: to pile onto her on that. One other interesting nugget

667
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: I want to put out there before I get to

668
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: glassters fashion Cure a long time political consultant. He ran

669
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders' camp campaign for president in twenty twenty. He's

670
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: right now aligned with the video, the progressive leaning video

671
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: More Perfect Union. They do some really good work. Yes,

672
00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: it's it's sort of advocacy journalism. But what's interesting is

673
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: he was very critical of what he thought Democrats were

674
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 1: doing when it came to short form video. You know,

675
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: he was saying that while people like Gavin Newsom, and

676
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: you've seen Akim Jeffreys and Chuck Schumer all doing more

677
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: videos themselves, trying to talk to voters sort of explaining

678
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: different policies that he thinks it's not worked, and he

679
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: thinks that if you want more effective viral videos, you've

680
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: got to talk to people who's actually impacted by the situation.

681
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 1: And he noted the he said, the raw, emotionally jarring

682
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: clips of human suffering and Gaza and the outrages videos

683
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 1: of ice agents separating families, that those videos go more

684
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: viral than when a politician is telling you what they think,

685
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: and as he said, those clips have done more to

686
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: change public opinion on those issues than anything else. His

687
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: point is, real people are who you should be featuring

688
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,439
Speaker 1: when you're trying to make a point on the cost

689
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: to live, on the impact of healthcare subsidies going away,

690
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: or the impact of no childcare tax credit, things like that.

691
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: And this goes back to some politics never change. Right.

692
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: If you make your campaign about the people you're trying

693
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 1: to convince to vote for you, they're more likely to listen.

694
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 1: If you make the campaign essentially about your own ideology

695
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: or your own views and you're trying to persuade others

696
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: to come to your side, you're more likely to be losing.

697
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: And so I just thought that deserved a highlight. I

698
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,359
Speaker 1: caught what he had to say, and I thought it

699
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: was something worth pointing out. All right, So we're there.

700
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: We'll sneak in a break for those of you listening

701
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: to the full download here, My friend Paul Glasters on

702
00:43:52,200 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: college affordability is next. So joining me now is somebody

703
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 1: for many of us of a certain age in Washington

704
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: is that I would deem an institution. It's Paul Glasters,

705
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: the editor in chief of the Washington Monthly. Many of

706
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: us count the Washington Monthly as one of the first

707
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: magazines that published us. That would be me. So when

708
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: I started seeing could I do this? Could I write

709
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: long form? After all of my sort of wire copy

710
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: years at the National Journal and doing the hotline. And

711
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: Paul was an extraordinarily generous editor and a great mentor

712
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 1: to a lot of writers and reporters around Washington. So

713
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 1: this is a real treat for me. Paul.

714
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 2: It's good to see you, Chuck. What a pleasure. Thanks

715
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:51,959
Speaker 2: for having me on. And I remember that story well

716
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 2: by John Carry.

717
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: I think, yes, yes it was, and so I have

718
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: you on because you did something that I love, and

719
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: it's something frankly that I remember the Obama administration wanted

720
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: to make a bigger deal out of which was how

721
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: can we create a list of best colleges for bang

722
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: for your buck? Essentially, you know what's going to provide

723
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,600
Speaker 1: you the education that you need without making you have

724
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: to go into debt for the rest of your life

725
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 1: or to do blood oaths to people that maybe you

726
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 1: don't want to give blood oaths too, because you want

727
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: to get into this Ivy League university, that Ivy League university.

728
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: I will note the irony that you once worked at

729
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: US News and now you have a competing list. But

730
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: this is and look where I want to talk about

731
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: the future of journalism and and sort of and where

732
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: that goes too. But talk to me about the decision

733
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: to do this list and for the Washington Monthly, and

734
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: how would you describe it and what what what motivated

735
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:57,399
Speaker 1: you to do it?

736
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 2: Well, you're right that that I used to work at

737
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 2: US News and the US News college rankings paid my

738
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 2: mortgage all of us Right, there was always a kind

739
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 2: of undercurrent of concern about the adequacy of the numbers.

740
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 2: And when my friend Jim Follows became the editor, he

741
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 2: commissioned internal study by a very reputable organization that found

742
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 2: that the use of their metrics. I think the quote

743
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 2: was something like made no logical or methodological sense. And

744
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 2: when he reported this to the owner, Mort Zuckerman of

745
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 2: the US News, and this was the major revenue driver

746
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 2: of the publication, Jim was shortly escorted out the door.

747
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 2: And uh, it was not too long after that. I

748
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 2: quit when Jim was fired. And it was a couple

749
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 2: of years later that, miraculously who knows that internal study

750
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,919
Speaker 2: made its way into the Washington Monthly, and we did

751
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,720
Speaker 2: a couple of deep dive investigative pieces about US News

752
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 2: and I determined the idea of ranking colleges is fine,

753
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 2: right often, how dare you rank colleges? Nobody could compare us? Well,

754
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 2: you know, we ranked football teams, we ranked students, we

755
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,800
Speaker 2: rank colleges. But that basically US News does it in

756
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: a kind of a horrific way. And I'm going to

757
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 2: simplify their metrics, but it's basically this. They reward colleges

758
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 2: in their metrics for three things. Number one, exclusivity. How

759
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 2: few students do you let in? It's sort of the

760
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 2: idea that you know, college is like a country club

761
00:47:54,320 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: lectures instead of golf and velvet rope. Yeah, and you know,

762
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 2: which is kind of wacky when you think about it.

763
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 2: If you few restaurants, they don't count country clubs, right,

764
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 2: they say, the best restaurant in the city is this

765
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 2: country club. Well, I can't get into that country club.

766
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 2: Why are you telling me this? It's kind of useless

767
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 2: information to anybody who isn't you know, at the very

768
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 2: upper level of the SAT range. And you know the

769
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 2: way that thing works out. It's mostly people from affluent,

770
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 2: wealthy families who go to the best high schools, who

771
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 2: have years of prep. Those are the ones again into

772
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 2: the IVY League. So for ninety percent of Americans, they

773
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 2: don't even consider those schools. They're not for them, right,

774
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 2: So exclusivity is how US News And there's about a

775
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 2: dozen other rankings out there, and they all, almost all

776
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 2: of them do the same thing. They say, who do

777
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: you How many people can you say no to? That

778
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 2: must be you're good. The second thing they reward is

779
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 2: spending is wealth. How much money do we spend on

780
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 2: our students? Which if you're only mostly letting in wealthy students,

781
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 2: you got a lot of money, right, so you can

782
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 2: spend money. And then the third is reputation. US News

783
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 2: does this survey of college leaders and they ask you,

784
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: what do you think of that other college, as if

785
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 2: that leader knows anything about what's going on in the

786
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 2: classroom a thousand miles away. But it's sort of like,

787
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 2: you know, high school, who are the cool kids? Everybody

788
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 2: else's cool kids are, So the cool kids are the

789
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 2: cool kids because everybody says they're the cool kids. We said,

790
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 2: these are really terrible metrics. They're not useful for most students,

791
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 2: and they're very bad for the country.

792
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:36,919
Speaker 1: Right.

793
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 2: They drive inequality, they drive snobbery, they drive expense, They

794
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 2: make college more expensive. Every college president and system wants

795
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 2: their college to go hire on the US News list.

796
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 2: And so they wellt's throw some more money at it.

797
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 2: Let's tell you know, our constituct our students. No, you

798
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 2: can't get in. Let's deny people at education. It's crazy.

799
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 2: So we said, all right. I actually hired the woman

800
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 2: who had done the study right for Jim Follows, and

801
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 2: I said, help me design a different set of rankings.

802
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:16,760
Speaker 2: And so we said, what is it that the average person,

803
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 2: not the most affluent people, not people who went to Harvard,

804
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 2: but the average person wants out of their investment in

805
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 2: higher education. And when I say investment, I don't just

806
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 2: mean tuition dollars. I mean your tax dollars. Government at

807
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 2: every level Chuck spends half a trillion dollars a year

808
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 2: on higher ED. That is seventeen hundred dollars out of

809
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 2: pocket for the average taxpayer.

810
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: Right, whether you go, whether they go to college or not,

811
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: they have contributed, Right, They've contributed.

812
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,800
Speaker 2: Dollars to the colleges, providing some value for the country

813
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 2: and for ourselves specifically. So what is that value? And

814
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 2: so we came up with three alternative metrics. Number one,

815
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 2: what you alluded to best bang for your buck upward mobility?

816
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 2: Does a college recruit and graduate students of modest means? Right,

817
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,720
Speaker 2: working class students, middle class students, boards students.

818
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 1: First gen basically first gen college?

819
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:19,720
Speaker 2: Right? Does it recruit and graduate students of modest means

820
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 2: with degrees that don't cost too much, don't load them

821
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 2: down with debt, and that means something in the market

822
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,320
Speaker 2: such that they earn middle class or better incomes.

823
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,359
Speaker 1: They've moved up. The latter they're making more money than

824
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: their parents exactly.

825
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 2: Number two research, Do colleges create the scholarship and scholars

826
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 2: that drive new economic growth, solutions to global problems, you know,

827
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 2: cures for diseases, et cetera. And number three, what we

828
00:51:55,600 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 2: call service. Open up the mission statement of just about

829
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 2: any college, and there's going to be a sentence in

830
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 2: there that's saying the point of this university is to create,

831
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 2: is to educate young people to take their place as

832
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 2: engaged members of their democracy. So we're the only ranking

833
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 2: that holds schools to account for their own mission statement

834
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 2: in that regard. And so a school gets extra points

835
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 2: in our ranking if they have a robust ROTC program

836
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:29,439
Speaker 2: serving in the military, if they students go on into

837
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 2: the Peace Corps, if they are friendly to people financially

838
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:39,280
Speaker 2: who serve in America Corps, if the voter registration numbers

839
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 2: are high and they do what they need to do

840
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 2: to make voting easier for their students. If they use

841
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:51,280
Speaker 2: some of their work study money to provide community service

842
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 2: opportunities rather than just you know, free labor for the college,

843
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,399
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. And so when you put those

844
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 2: three things together, you get an entirely different, you know ranking.

845
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 2: All the other rankings, it's all the top thirty or

846
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 2: all the colleges that are always there, right they're almost

847
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 2: never changed.

848
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: Harvard, Stanford, maybe a couple of states. They freak out

849
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 1: if they lose a notch er too. I mean, you know,

850
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: you hear about it. I mean you know, I think

851
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: Georgetown got all freaked out that they went from twenty

852
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 1: five to twenty seven. Yeah, like, oh my god, you know,

853
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:27,720
Speaker 1: this guy's falling.

854
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:32,760
Speaker 2: No, this is huge for these colleges. And and again.

855
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:34,839
Speaker 2: So you go to the top twenty or thirty, and

856
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 2: they're all schools most people can't get into, right, they're

857
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 2: all country clubs and look, elite schools. They do a

858
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,359
Speaker 2: good job. I wound up, you know, transferring to one

859
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 2: and got an elite degree after going to state school.

860
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 2: More power to it. If you can get in, you'll

861
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 2: make a lot of money, you'll have a great network.

862
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:00,720
Speaker 2: But most people can't, right, that's the point. So yeah,

863
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 2: So the top schools in US News this year barely

864
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 2: budged the top thirty schools in Washington monthly. Half of

865
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 2: them were these elite schools. Well, and you know.

866
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 1: Duke and yeah, your Rice is your Vanderbilts there on there.

867
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 1: I was looking at the South, but then you got

868
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 1: a school like that's number. I was just looking right.

869
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 1: The number one school in the South for best bang

870
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,280
Speaker 1: for your buck and the number one liberal arts college

871
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 1: is Barea.

872
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the number one school among fourteen hundred colleges

873
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:33,800
Speaker 2: that we rank that.

874
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody would have had that. Where's Brea in

875
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: the US News rank? Oh?

876
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, if you off to the side

877
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:42,279
Speaker 2: and some side ranking, they probably give it, you know,

878
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 2: some lip service. But we're the only ranking in the

879
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:50,200
Speaker 2: country that says Berea University in Barrack in breat Kentucky. Berea,

880
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:50,800
Speaker 2: by the way.

881
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: I mean, excuse me, Yeah, I know we're both is

882
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 1: the number.

883
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 2: One school and and why because they do it an

884
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 2: astonishing job of providing a great education to students of

885
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 2: modest means. Most of their students nine percent of their students,

886
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 2: by the way, are on pelgrants. That's the federal Where

887
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 2: is where is Brion Bria is in Borea and it's

888
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 2: I don't know, seventy five miles from Lexington, if that

889
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 2: puts you in the.

890
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:20,040
Speaker 1: So it's in that side of Kentucky.

891
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Lexington, and almost all their students are from the

892
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:27,840
Speaker 2: Appalachia College was founded in eighteen fifty five by abolitionists,

893
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 2: and it was the first college south of the Mason

894
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 2: Dixon line to educate both blacks and whites and women.

895
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 2: And for more than one hundred years it's had the

896
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,879
Speaker 2: aspiration to charge no tuition to anybody. And they don't

897
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 2: quite get there, but the vast majority of the students

898
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 2: pay little to nothing and they do that.

899
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: How do they? Yeah, how do they do it?

900
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 2: It's fascinating. I did, We'll do a podcast and I

901
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 2: interviewed the president, Cynthia Nixon.

902
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: Is her name?

903
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 2: Number one?

904
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 1: That's not that Cynthia Nixon, right, Yeah, a difference.

905
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 2: I think they think that's your name. A very bright woman,

906
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 2: and she explained it to us. Number one, they're what

907
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 2: a really designated work college, meaning all of their students

908
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 2: get work study money. So and then some of that

909
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 2: money goes to pay their tuition and some of it

910
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 2: goes in their pocket. Number two And really the biggest

911
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 2: reason is for a hundred years they've been building a

912
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 2: a endowment through small donations that's now like a billion

913
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 2: and a half dollars.

914
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: Wow. They're just are really smart investors.

915
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 2: Smart investors. And if you start a hundred years ago

916
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 2: and you keep going, magic a compound interest and instead

917
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 2: of like using it to build sports stadiums or endow

918
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 2: you know.

919
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 1: Or beautiful dorms. Right, that becomes the arms race at

920
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 1: these universities for dorms that look like they look like

921
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 1: midtown Manhattan apartments exactly.

922
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 2: It all goes or not, you know, the bulk of

923
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 2: it goes to keeping costs down for students, and then

924
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:06,120
Speaker 2: the students it's it's it's it's a selective ish university.

925
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 2: Not everybody gets in. It's not like Yale, but they

926
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 2: they it's a academically rigorous institution. When you go look

927
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 2: on the student reports, it's like, wow, I'm working my

928
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 2: tail off here. But when students leave, they earn five

929
00:57:25,680 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 2: thousand dollars more per year than their peers and their

930
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 2: demographic peers who will go to Coline. So you know,

931
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 2: that's just our idea of a great school. And if

932
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 2: you look at like just the top five, the most

933
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 2: the highest ranking elite school is Princeton at number five.

934
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 2: I think Harvard's down at twenty six or something. But

935
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 2: above Princeton are three campuses of the California State University system.

936
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 2: The number two Fresno State, which I'm going to guess

937
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 2: most of your listeners and viewers don't know much about

938
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 2: it or maybe have never heard of.

939
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: But it shows up on a Saturday night in college football.

940
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 1: It does bully, you do see that.

941
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 2: But they are a fabulous institution. They charge very little.

942
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 2: The students come from that central valley of California, many

943
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 2: of them from very poor backgrounds. The president of the

944
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:26,480
Speaker 2: university grew up working on a farm in the area.

945
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 2: The students when they graduate tend to stay in the area.

946
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 2: They don't jet off to New York and work for

947
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 2: a hedge fund. And some of them go back to

948
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 2: work for agricultural companies where as children they pick crops. Right.

949
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 2: That is upward mobility, my friend. Right. And so you know,

950
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 2: these are the colleges that are really the ones we

951
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 2: should all elevate and try to support, and unfortunately they are.

952
00:58:56,280 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 2: They are underinvested in They don't get anywhere near the

953
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 2: money that that schools that you know, cater to the

954
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 2: wealthier student and it's it's kind of a crime.

955
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 1: You know. It's interesting if there's a pattern, loose pattern

956
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 1: that I've noticed a lot of colleges, meaning these are

957
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:20,840
Speaker 1: schools that don't have graduate programs right. In many cases

958
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: they are just focused on the four year I assume

959
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 1: that's not a coincidence. And how your rankings work that

960
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 1: that those that these these colleges that are just focused

961
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 1: on there are not worried about because many many universities,

962
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 1: it is the graduate programs that pay the bills, right.

963
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: You know, in some ways undergrad is a loss leader,

964
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 1: and so is there. Do you get a sense that

965
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: those without the graduate schools, without the the the post

966
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: grad you know, whether it's med schools, law schools, et cetera,

967
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 1: that it it sort of concentrates the administration on running

968
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,440
Speaker 1: a better for your undergrad system.

969
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot to that. You know, there

970
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 2: are tiers of universities that are classified by an institution

971
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 2: called the Carnegie Classification for Institutions of Higher Education, and

972
01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 2: we used to follow them kind of rigorously. Because US

973
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 2: News did funny you should mention this year, they really

974
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 2: switched up their rankings and that allowed us to kind

975
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 2: of free ourselves from how we used to do it.

976
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 2: And one of the things we did, afropope what you said,

977
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 2: is we pulled all the research data out of our

978
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 2: main rankings and just made a best colleges for research,

979
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 2: because that's where the grad programs are really really are.

980
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:54,959
Speaker 2: And those are the universities, and there's maybe a couple

981
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 2: hundred of them that have very big, robust med schools,

982
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 2: law schools, engineering schools, and so forth.

983
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:05,800
Speaker 1: Well you look at your list, and it is the

984
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 1: big These are the school the big schools. It's Michigan,

985
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 1: it's Stanford, it's Berkeley, it's Purdue, Texas A, and M

986
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: one through five, all of them huge research institutions.

987
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 2: Right, So we said, let's just put those guys in

988
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 2: their own category.

989
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 1: By the way, Texas A and m over. Mit, you

990
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 1: know how much some Texans would love seeing that at

991
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 1: they do.

992
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 2: They brag on it and and you know, not to

993
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 2: get too political here, but these are the schools that

994
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 2: the Trump administration is really going after cuts to research grants.

995
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 2: One of the things we found in doing this exercise,

996
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 2: and it's in the story, is that sure he's gone

997
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 2: after the big research universities in blue cities and states,

998
01:01:57,400 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 2: but the ones that are also being hit. There are

999
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 2: a lot of big research universities in red states and

1000
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 2: in rural areas, and they're getting hurt and and it's

1001
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 2: like a lot of Trump administration policy. It is aimed

1002
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:17,120
Speaker 2: at his enemies, but it winds up damaging his boat.

1003
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 2: There's a whole Paul, I can tell you this.

1004
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 1: There's a whole bunch of lobbyists making money right now

1005
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 1: off of universities who've hired them to say, hey, get

1006
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,439
Speaker 1: us off this target list. We're not what I don't

1007
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 1: think he mean. And and what you find out. I

1008
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 1: happen to know of one very public university that that's

1009
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 1: having some success doing that because they got as you

1010
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: just said, they lost some stuff that was aimed at

1011
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 1: punishing a Northeastern school and it ended up punishing this southern,

1012
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 1: big state school. And that is it wasn't the intent.

1013
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 1: And so like just like the farmers, he's trying, they're

1014
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,400
Speaker 1: trying to create carve outs now you know, which of

1015
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 1: course just got gum up. The whole works.

1016
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, And it's and it's a it's a

1017
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:04,440
Speaker 2: plotics truck that we've never seen in this country, never.

1018
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 1: As the weaponizing college research. Right like, that's another level.

1019
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 2: Specific targeting of your political enemies on funding that was

1020
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 2: never intended to be anything but given out on merit,

1021
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 2: right given out.

1022
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:25,280
Speaker 1: And it's and not even really political stuff. I mean,

1023
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's health funding, whether it's research, I mean,

1024
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,400
Speaker 1: this is stuff that is arguably for the masses.

1025
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so so so I hope that people take

1026
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 2: away from our rankings. I mean, I think our rankings

1027
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 2: resonate at this moment because there's so much fury at

1028
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 2: higher end, and the fury is in all directions from

1029
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 2: all quarters, and you know, a lot of it is

1030
01:03:56,680 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 2: political and partisan, and I think, you know, maybe have

1031
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 2: has grains of truth in it, but is also you know,

1032
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 2: kind of hypocritical. These people I'm furious about elite universities

1033
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 2: and college in general, and absolutely desperate to get their

1034
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 2: kids in there. But part of the fury is is real.

1035
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 2: Is it costs a lot of money now to send

1036
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 2: a kid to college or send yourself to college. I

1037
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 2: mean real inflation adjusted spending for two year schools has

1038
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 2: nearly doubled since nineteen ninety four, and more than doubled

1039
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 2: for four year schools. And you know, people are saying,

1040
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 2: you know, is college still worth it? Well, you go

1041
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:45,520
Speaker 2: to the Washington Mother you see hundreds of colleges that

1042
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 2: are really very much worth it. But in general, you know,

1043
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 2: at Toyota is a great buy at thirty thousand dollars,

1044
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 2: roll or whatever. At one hundred and fifty thousand dollars,

1045
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:58,920
Speaker 2: it's not worth it. Right, So, until we can get

1046
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 2: the cost of college down, prove the quality, because a

1047
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 2: lot of colleges are just not delivering quality. You're going

1048
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 2: to have this this fury, this this distrust.

1049
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:22,840
Speaker 1: What's the best way to find out? I mean, I'll

1050
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 1: tell you all these rankings where I feel And it's

1051
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 1: one of those things I didn't really appreciate until after

1052
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:33,080
Speaker 1: I got on a campus. But what kind of professors,

1053
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 1: what kind of teachers do they have? What how do

1054
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:38,600
Speaker 1: they hire their professors? Do they demand professors that do

1055
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:44,200
Speaker 1: research and prioritize their own work, or do they hire

1056
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: teachers real coaches? And when I mean a teacher, I

1057
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 1: mean like a coach. You know who who becomes that

1058
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:55,120
Speaker 1: mentor you know? I mean, look, I teach part time.

1059
01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:01,280
Speaker 1: I'm I'm on use USC's campus right now. And I

1060
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 1: did an event last night and three of my former

1061
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 1: students showed up and it it brought a ton of

1062
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 1: joy to me. Right. It is that there is a

1063
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:10,720
Speaker 1: joy you get out of it when you feel like

1064
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 1: you've you've been able to pass something on, you've been

1065
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 1: able to inspire a student, and not all people are

1066
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:21,480
Speaker 1: motivated by that or have that. Is there a way

1067
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: to measure what kind of because you could you look

1068
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:26,760
Speaker 1: at a resume of somebody, well, what a great resume,

1069
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 1: But you have no idea if there are any good

1070
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 1: at being a teacher and they know how to be

1071
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 1: a coach, you know that sort of mindset. You know,

1072
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 1: is that researchable? Is that rankable?

1073
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 2: So we've really struggled with this, and there are there

1074
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 2: is some data that you can use to measure the

1075
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 2: quality of student engagement, quality of teaching, but we are

1076
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 2: sufficiently doubtful of it to not We've written stories about it.

1077
01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 1: We've you know, is this what sort of the student

1078
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 1: reaction to professors? Is it? Use those rate of professors?

1079
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 2: There's a professor there's something called the National Survey of

1080
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 2: Student Engagement. You know, they ask students and faculty how

1081
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 2: many times during the course of the week have you

1082
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 2: met with a professor outside the classroom? Right? How many

1083
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 2: ten page or more papers did you have to write?

1084
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 2: They try to measure the degree to which actual evidence

1085
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 2: based practices that we know lead to learning are happening

1086
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:39,160
Speaker 2: on the ground. Not bad, but it's not of a

1087
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 2: quality that we've been felt comfortable to put in our rankings.

1088
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 2: But you're asking the right question anecdotally. Like I went

1089
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:48,439
Speaker 2: to the University of Missouri my freshman year. It's good,

1090
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 2: good school, the flag that I transferred to Northwestern. Honestly,

1091
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,600
Speaker 2: the quality of the teaching at Northwestern wasn't any better

1092
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:00,320
Speaker 2: than the quality teaching that I had at MISSOI.

1093
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:02,880
Speaker 1: I Betfess has just had to pay higher rent. Yeah,

1094
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 1: they did in Columbia.

1095
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 2: I've given lectures to, you know, many at many colleges.

1096
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 2: I've been doing this college ranking thing for twenty years.

1097
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:17,360
Speaker 2: And you landed some small bu college, you know, not

1098
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:22,840
Speaker 2: well known college in the middle of nowhere, and you know,

1099
01:08:23,479 --> 01:08:28,639
Speaker 2: you meet these professors who are just wonderful, and they're

1100
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 2: very smart, and the students adore them, and they have

1101
01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 2: degrees from very prestigious universities. The thing is, we overproduce

1102
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 2: academic talent in this country. Right. Most people that get

1103
01:08:41,320 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 2: PhDs struggle to find teaching jobs. And that's tough if

1104
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 2: you're in that profession. But it's great if you're a

1105
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 2: college in some far flung place. Sure you got your

1106
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:53,160
Speaker 2: pick a great talent.

1107
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you get a Harvard train, Princeton train, Michigan train

1108
01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:59,639
Speaker 1: at you know, at a small college in the middle

1109
01:08:59,680 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 1: of camp.

1110
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:03,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. And and and the less research they're doing, the

1111
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:07,080
Speaker 2: more time they're like, all right, I'll just put my

1112
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 2: my My mission is to is to educate these kids. So, uh,

1113
01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:16,839
Speaker 2: I do think that the quality of teaching between elite

1114
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 2: schools and non elite schools is very narrow, is very similar.

1115
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 1: So one of the challenges that's coming. I say this,

1116
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 1: I serve on a board at GW, so I hear

1117
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:34,120
Speaker 1: these uh admissions concerns, meaning it's the so called demographic

1118
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:38,000
Speaker 1: cliff that we are at the beginning of that. I

1119
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 1: guess it's I guess it's my generation's fault. I didn't

1120
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 1: have enough kids. I only had two, Right, we didn't

1121
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:47,240
Speaker 1: have there and you did your job to Yeah, I

1122
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 1: replaced right, we replaced.

1123
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:50,800
Speaker 2: The environment i'd had to and we can better close

1124
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 2: them back.

1125
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:56,439
Speaker 1: So but there's I look at a lot of your

1126
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 1: the colleges that made the rankings, and I many of

1127
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 1: them are financially strapped, and I think there is going

1128
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 1: to be a you know, in the next ten or

1129
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 1: fifteen years, we're going to see colleges. I have a

1130
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 1: friend of mine who is the former well somebody you

1131
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 1: know Hobart who worked in the Clint administration yep, back

1132
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:24,360
Speaker 1: in the day. And I remember Mark gearan great guy.

1133
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 1: And I remember Mark telling me this fifteen years ago

1134
01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 1: when he was at Hobart and then he left and

1135
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:33,880
Speaker 1: then he came back, that there's real financial challenges for

1136
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:37,280
Speaker 1: these smaller basically the schools that performed best in your list.

1137
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:41,240
Speaker 1: You know, Bria has sounds like they have a good endowment.

1138
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 1: Many of these smaller colleges do not. And if you

1139
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:47,560
Speaker 1: take away international students and you take away some of

1140
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 1: these things, there's going to be some good colleges that

1141
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 1: go bankrupt in the next ten years, that just disappear.

1142
01:10:56,920 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 1: What are you sensing, you know, have you been able

1143
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:02,479
Speaker 1: to pick up on how are some of these smaller

1144
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:06,719
Speaker 1: colleges trying to survive in this in this tightening financial climate.

1145
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:09,960
Speaker 2: Well, I'll add one one more piece of news for you.

1146
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:14,519
Speaker 2: In the big beautiful Act that got passed, uh, there

1147
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:22,320
Speaker 2: is uh statutory language that is saying colleges that don't

1148
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:26,040
Speaker 2: demonstrate bang for the buck, that don't demonstrate a good

1149
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 2: return on investment will eventually get cut off from federal financing.

1150
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 1: Mmm.

1151
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 2: So there's going to be in addition to.

1152
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:35,400
Speaker 1: The interesting reckoning.

1153
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:38,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and honestly, the Washington Monthly has been calling for

1154
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:42,960
Speaker 2: something like this for years. You know, whether this bill

1155
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:48,040
Speaker 2: got it quite right, we can debate, but the the the.

1156
01:11:47,280 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 1: Spirit, you like the spirit of it a hundred. Look,

1157
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:53,040
Speaker 1: I remember the Obama administration couldn't get anything passed, so

1158
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 1: they decided they were going to put out their own

1159
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 1: best bang. It never really took you remember that they

1160
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 1: were going to make it a king and in the

1161
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:02,599
Speaker 1: end they said, no, we'll just put out the data

1162
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:04,639
Speaker 1: that I both know what happened. You know, I both

1163
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: know what happened. There so many of those they all

1164
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:11,120
Speaker 1: had connections to some higher institution like don't you rank us?

1165
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:13,879
Speaker 1: Don't you do that? You know exactly?

1166
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 2: They went about as far as they politically could. But

1167
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:20,799
Speaker 2: uh so, so if you look at our fourteen hundred

1168
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:24,400
Speaker 2: plus schools and our best best uh colleges for your

1169
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 2: tuition and tax dollar ranking, we've talked about the good ones,

1170
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:34,479
Speaker 2: the great ones, the you know, uh, you know, uh President,

1171
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:38,719
Speaker 2: there's a lot of colleges down on the blow that

1172
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:45,120
Speaker 2: really should go, should disappear. Huh, they need some radical reform.

1173
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:48,320
Speaker 2: They charged too much, Their students don't make that much money,

1174
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:51,840
Speaker 2: they don't graduate it. There there almost predatory.

1175
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:55,240
Speaker 1: Now, let's let's name some names. What's what's a what's

1176
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 1: one that people.

1177
01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:01,720
Speaker 2: But you know, you know, Liberty University, right? Uh, just

1178
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:08,560
Speaker 2: a terrible college too Lane, Right, people think is a terrific.

1179
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:11,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, my kids loved that was on the list, at.

1180
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 2: Least by our reckoning. Right, I'm sure if you're yeah,

1181
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:18,160
Speaker 2: you know it has its But but so there's a

1182
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:20,240
Speaker 2: lot of schools you hadn't heard of, a lot of

1183
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 2: you know, the arts schools and the music schools where

1184
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:25,920
Speaker 2: you know, students go knowing they're never going to make

1185
01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:26,439
Speaker 2: any money.

1186
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:31,240
Speaker 1: Berkeley School of Music, Yeah, one of those very expensive

1187
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 1: and and and selective and no guarantee you're going to

1188
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:36,840
Speaker 1: make it. All right. Look, I was a I was

1189
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 1: a musician. Yeah, and I did get a music scholarship.

1190
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:44,639
Speaker 1: But I remember toying with Berkeley and thought, man, I'm

1191
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:49,120
Speaker 1: not that that's a you're you're you're, you're going for

1192
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:52,120
Speaker 1: the dream and literally it's one percent that makes it

1193
01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:53,600
Speaker 1: exactly exactly.

1194
01:13:55,120 --> 01:14:01,919
Speaker 2: But so there are a lot of towns kept alive

1195
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:06,799
Speaker 2: in part by their university. And those are the places

1196
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:09,719
Speaker 2: my heart goes out to because one of the great

1197
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 2: things about the American system of higher education is it's dispersed.

1198
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:18,880
Speaker 2: It's all over the country. And you know, you think of.

1199
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:24,599
Speaker 1: The every European marvels at this. Yeah, you just marvel

1200
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:27,720
Speaker 1: at it that we have these institutions everywhere.

1201
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:31,519
Speaker 2: And I think we need a new deal. And we've

1202
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:36,840
Speaker 2: written about this. Kevin Carry, one of our guest editors,

1203
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:39,680
Speaker 2: have written extensively about it. We need a deal, a

1204
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:42,240
Speaker 2: new deal for higher ed. We need to reach out

1205
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:46,360
Speaker 2: to colleges and say, on a voluntary basis, if you're

1206
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:50,720
Speaker 2: willing to control costs, to share your data so that

1207
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 2: we can monitor what's going on and improve quality and

1208
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 2: charge little to nothing to students of bodest means, we're

1209
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:01,920
Speaker 2: going to cover you do all your costs up to

1210
01:15:01,960 --> 01:15:07,720
Speaker 2: a certain modest amount. This is an oversimplification, chock, but

1211
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:14,040
Speaker 2: the average cost spending on a student, not accounting room

1212
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:16,680
Speaker 2: and board, it's about ten thousand dollars a year to.

1213
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 1: Go to college.

1214
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:22,879
Speaker 2: To cost to college, if you offered colleges ten thousand

1215
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:26,960
Speaker 2: dollars per student. That's the deal. And oh, by the way,

1216
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 2: any credit at any college from a class transfers over

1217
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:33,799
Speaker 2: if that student goes to another college in the network.

1218
01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:37,719
Speaker 2: That could save thousands of hundreds of these schools anyway,

1219
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 2: and I think a lot of state schools would join in.

1220
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 2: The elites would never do this, but that way you

1221
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 2: could deliver free college or virtually free college to the

1222
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:54,960
Speaker 2: working middle class American. Save these schools, save these towns,

1223
01:15:55,400 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 2: save these regions, have better quality at lower cost, and

1224
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:02,040
Speaker 2: I could be transformative for the country.

1225
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:05,920
Speaker 1: Well look, I mean, and I can already hear you

1226
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:08,720
Speaker 1: essentially making this pitch so that left and right both

1227
01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:12,960
Speaker 1: could embrace it. Which is that's as much as to

1228
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:15,880
Speaker 1: save these rural towns that do love that. You know.

1229
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:17,640
Speaker 1: It's funny, you know there's this sort of war on

1230
01:16:17,720 --> 01:16:21,160
Speaker 1: higher ed on the right, but locally they love you know.

1231
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 1: It's like, Frankly, it's like you're a member of Congress.

1232
01:16:23,560 --> 01:16:25,320
Speaker 1: I can't stay in Congress, but I like my guy,

1233
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:27,679
Speaker 1: you know, right, I don't like these higher ed guys.

1234
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:29,519
Speaker 1: But you know, we've got a nice little university right

1235
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:31,680
Speaker 1: down the street here it's a good you know, you know,

1236
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 1: they produce really good people. I get my babysitters from there,

1237
01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:35,559
Speaker 1: you know, type of mindset.

1238
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:38,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And they have they have the local radio station,

1239
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:41,240
Speaker 2: and they have right a lot of times they provide

1240
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:44,720
Speaker 2: the local news exactly exactly. And you know, there are

1241
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:48,280
Speaker 2: a lot of these regional public universities the Fresno states,

1242
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:53,720
Speaker 2: the Northeast Missouri state or Southeast Missouri state, these colleges

1243
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:59,320
Speaker 2: that are known regionally but have no national profile. That's

1244
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:03,200
Speaker 2: where most people get their BA degrees. Right, and they're

1245
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:08,000
Speaker 2: underinvested in I think they get about one thousand dollars

1246
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:12,080
Speaker 2: per student, less than the flagship universities in those states,

1247
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:15,559
Speaker 2: and maybe half or a third of what gets spent

1248
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:18,880
Speaker 2: for these elite schools. And they're doing the yeomens work.

1249
01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:23,200
Speaker 2: They are up the engines of upward mobility in this country.

1250
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,120
Speaker 1: If we had had a conversation in the early nineties

1251
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:33,280
Speaker 1: the question, I would have assumed back then that we

1252
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:36,800
Speaker 1: were going to get what I call mandatory thirteenth and

1253
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:41,799
Speaker 1: fourteenth grade, meaning that the first two years if essentially

1254
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:44,640
Speaker 1: community college was going to be free, that it was

1255
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:47,040
Speaker 1: going to be available the way public the essentially, we

1256
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:49,880
Speaker 1: were going to extend public education two more years. It

1257
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:54,000
Speaker 1: seemed inevitable. It's where I remember, you know, one of

1258
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 1: the smarter strategic things that Bill Clinton did in ninety two,

1259
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:02,559
Speaker 1: I remember was prioritize in campaign events at community colleges. Yeah,

1260
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:05,679
Speaker 1: and you know, it was just you know, that could

1261
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:07,240
Speaker 1: why do you do that? That's where the people are,

1262
01:18:07,439 --> 01:18:09,519
Speaker 1: right like, it was a you know, and he was

1263
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:13,400
Speaker 1: he was making an economic argument, and what better place

1264
01:18:13,479 --> 01:18:15,760
Speaker 1: to do that where people are looking to make it

1265
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:17,120
Speaker 1: to the middle class than there.

1266
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:22,200
Speaker 2: And he took the he began the process of getting

1267
01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 2: the banks out of student financing because they were making

1268
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:28,280
Speaker 2: a boatload with no risk and making it some college

1269
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:32,280
Speaker 2: could offer directly. No, he was absolutely right. And I

1270
01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 2: don't know if you were.

1271
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:34,880
Speaker 1: But we're not there. I don't know. I was. I

1272
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:37,600
Speaker 1: was shocked. I am shocked that we didn't get the

1273
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:40,640
Speaker 1: And I know it was in the I think it

1274
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:44,000
Speaker 1: was in the initial draft of one of the bills

1275
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:46,680
Speaker 1: Bill Better Yeah, black Bear.

1276
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:52,280
Speaker 2: It was one of those different versions. It was doing

1277
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 2: for community colleges what I just said we should do

1278
01:18:55,880 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 2: for colleges. It was it was basically a set of

1279
01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:06,760
Speaker 2: funding and regulatory uh offers that said we're going to

1280
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:12,599
Speaker 2: make community college free in America, and it came very close.

1281
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:16,639
Speaker 2: No Republicans voted for it. I think Joe Manchin voted

1282
01:19:16,640 --> 01:19:20,400
Speaker 2: against it. But what really killed it was the four

1283
01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:24,559
Speaker 2: year elite schools didn't want all that money because it's

1284
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:27,880
Speaker 2: a fixed pie. They thought they wanted the money for themselves,

1285
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:32,000
Speaker 2: and so they quietly but non publicly bad mouthed it,

1286
01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:34,080
Speaker 2: and it didn't make it became mac close.

1287
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:36,919
Speaker 1: Where what is the state the state of the community

1288
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:39,320
Speaker 1: college system? You know, I grew up in Miami, and

1289
01:19:39,400 --> 01:19:41,880
Speaker 1: I grew up at the time Miami Day Community College

1290
01:19:42,240 --> 01:19:47,240
Speaker 1: was almost a model community college. It except it's now

1291
01:19:47,280 --> 01:19:49,760
Speaker 1: a college. It's a four year college, you know, but

1292
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:53,400
Speaker 1: it is a tremendous I mean, it is your path,

1293
01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:57,120
Speaker 1: you know, out of out of struggles, and it really is.

1294
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 1: It's a I'm you know, I think it's it's I'm

1295
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:03,880
Speaker 1: glad to hear it. Still it hangs in there because

1296
01:20:03,960 --> 01:20:08,679
Speaker 1: I have always been really proud of how successful it's been.

1297
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:12,120
Speaker 1: What is the state of the community college system in general,

1298
01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 1: because it still is the best path out of the

1299
01:20:14,680 --> 01:20:15,479
Speaker 1: out of poverty.

1300
01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:18,040
Speaker 2: I'm going to answer that question. But before I do

1301
01:20:18,240 --> 01:20:20,439
Speaker 2: one to say, I hope you'll go back to the

1302
01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:24,880
Speaker 2: Washington Monthly and read the story about I think we

1303
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:32,120
Speaker 2: call it Florida's Fresh Squeezed Universities. It's about Florida, all

1304
01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:35,880
Speaker 2: about the history of how Florida managed. You know, when

1305
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:39,400
Speaker 2: you think of Florida, you don't think higher education, right, No, And.

1306
01:20:39,520 --> 01:20:42,439
Speaker 1: I've always been personally frustrated that Florida doesn't have a

1307
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:46,120
Speaker 1: UT system, a Sunni system or the UC system. And

1308
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:48,759
Speaker 1: it's been They've they toyed with it a few times,

1309
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:52,519
Speaker 1: but they never they never quite you know, built those

1310
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:55,360
Speaker 1: type of systems like Texas and California and New Art.

1311
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:58,559
Speaker 2: I invite you to read the story because what Florida

1312
01:20:58,600 --> 01:21:03,640
Speaker 2: doesn't have is Harvard level prestige schools. You know, for

1313
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:06,200
Speaker 2: Florida's good school but nobody thinks of it as elite.

1314
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:11,479
Speaker 2: But the system that they do have is more like

1315
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 2: UT or the California system or the New York system

1316
01:21:16,240 --> 01:21:20,679
Speaker 2: than you realize. And I'll give you one example. First

1317
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 2: of all. The end result is you can go to

1318
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:26,519
Speaker 2: Florida and go to a four year school and the

1319
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:29,439
Speaker 2: Florida schools do extremely well on our rankings.

1320
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 1: By the way, they did really well in the US

1321
01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:34,120
Speaker 1: News wreankings this year too. Yeah, because they are a

1322
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:37,400
Speaker 1: good price. They are very good price. And that is

1323
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:41,000
Speaker 1: engineered into the Florida system. They give you one example

1324
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 1: in nineteen the nineteen sixties, they passed a system whereby

1325
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:55,400
Speaker 1: the every course at every public university in Florida was had.

1326
01:21:55,280 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 2: The same course number. And if you pass that course,

1327
01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 2: you pass that course at any other school in Florida.

1328
01:22:03,479 --> 01:22:06,559
Speaker 2: Right as you may know, when you go to community college,

1329
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:09,679
Speaker 2: you take English one oh one and then you transfer

1330
01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:12,240
Speaker 2: to a four year school. The four year schools like

1331
01:22:12,280 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 2: it to say, we don't.

1332
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:15,759
Speaker 1: Think that the colge. No, but you're right in Florida.

1333
01:22:15,880 --> 01:22:20,240
Speaker 1: Santa Fe Community College which is next to Gainesville, it's automatic,

1334
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:26,360
Speaker 1: TCC Tallahassee Community College automatic to Florida State It.

1335
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:29,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, So Florida has more as I think a percentage

1336
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:32,360
Speaker 2: of its students getting the first two years at a

1337
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:35,439
Speaker 2: community college and then transferring than any other state in

1338
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:36,160
Speaker 2: the Union.

1339
01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:39,200
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's more affordable. I mean, look, if I

1340
01:22:39,200 --> 01:22:41,639
Speaker 1: didn't get a scholarship, that was going to be my path. Yeah,

1341
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:44,800
Speaker 1: you do the two years and then transfer because you know,

1342
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:47,160
Speaker 1: it's a more affordable way to get a four year degree.

1343
01:22:47,360 --> 01:22:49,519
Speaker 2: I got a son, you know, at Montgomery College on

1344
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:52,760
Speaker 2: and off, so it is a great way. And to

1345
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:57,439
Speaker 2: answer the question, community college has benefited some in this

1346
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:02,400
Speaker 2: big beautiful act because they're going to get they freed

1347
01:23:02,479 --> 01:23:05,200
Speaker 2: up money for short term certificates.

1348
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:08,680
Speaker 1: These are kind of trade schoolish type of right.

1349
01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:11,639
Speaker 2: They do trade school stuff as community college. That's where

1350
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:16,920
Speaker 2: most trade school stuff happens. And you know, people don't

1351
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 2: quite get that, but it's been the case for decades.

1352
01:23:20,120 --> 01:23:23,479
Speaker 2: But these are usually the federal government won't give you

1353
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:26,280
Speaker 2: a PELL grant if it's not at least a year

1354
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:28,400
Speaker 2: long program or two year long program. This is for

1355
01:23:28,479 --> 01:23:31,920
Speaker 2: six weeks, eight months. I can forget what the timeframe is.

1356
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:34,640
Speaker 2: We'll see if it works. Because the quality, there's a

1357
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:38,080
Speaker 2: question of quality. But this is a potential gusher of

1358
01:23:38,439 --> 01:23:42,800
Speaker 2: new funding for community colleges. But community college is like

1359
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:47,559
Speaker 2: four year There's just a vast range of quality. Some

1360
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:50,439
Speaker 2: of them have very low graduation rates, some of them

1361
01:23:50,479 --> 01:23:55,240
Speaker 2: much higher, even holding demographics studies. Some of them are

1362
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:57,800
Speaker 2: well supported by their regions and states, some of them

1363
01:23:57,840 --> 01:23:58,400
Speaker 2: not so much.

1364
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:00,840
Speaker 1: So it's a wide despair is what you're saying. There's

1365
01:24:00,840 --> 01:24:02,040
Speaker 1: not a consistency to it.

1366
01:24:02,400 --> 01:24:05,040
Speaker 2: Correct, correct, And and there are some states that just

1367
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:08,200
Speaker 2: don't have a lot of community colleges. So it's they

1368
01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:12,360
Speaker 2: are fantastic as an institution. We need to do more

1369
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:15,680
Speaker 2: for them, we need to ask more of them. But

1370
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:18,880
Speaker 2: I completely agree with you. They are. They are the

1371
01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 2: working end of higher education.

1372
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:35,519
Speaker 1: Talk about community connection. I mean, I just you know,

1373
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:38,719
Speaker 1: we had a the way the Miami Dade Community College

1374
01:24:38,720 --> 01:24:42,320
Speaker 1: has multiple campuses all around Dade County, and those campuses

1375
01:24:42,439 --> 01:24:46,400
Speaker 1: also served as sort of host for community events. You

1376
01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:49,719
Speaker 1: might you know, you might take a yoga class there,

1377
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:55,000
Speaker 1: you might take a quilting class there, like you know. Look,

1378
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:57,240
Speaker 1: because they had to make money, right, they would offer

1379
01:24:57,400 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 1: sort of classes not for degrees, but just sort of

1380
01:25:00,360 --> 01:25:03,240
Speaker 1: community interest classes to yeah, make a couple of bucks

1381
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:06,000
Speaker 1: to support the education part of things.

1382
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:10,520
Speaker 2: And the partnerships you find between community colleges and employers,

1383
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:13,280
Speaker 2: oh yeah, find these at some of the regional public

1384
01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:16,320
Speaker 2: universities too, but even more at the community colleges. If

1385
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:21,519
Speaker 2: you're an employer, you're you know, an airline, right, and

1386
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:25,160
Speaker 2: you need people you work with the community college to

1387
01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:29,880
Speaker 2: structure your classes such that they're getting the certificates that

1388
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:33,440
Speaker 2: they need to then work you know, in the logistics

1389
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:36,879
Speaker 2: part of your airline or in the accounting or whatever.

1390
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:40,440
Speaker 2: And you know, maybe they have a paid internship program.

1391
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:45,200
Speaker 2: So that's where a lot of that academic to employment

1392
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:51,360
Speaker 2: connection happens or doesn't happen, again, depending on the leadership

1393
01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:54,840
Speaker 2: and the quality of the community college.

1394
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:56,960
Speaker 1: Well, look, I want to pivot now a little bit

1395
01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:00,720
Speaker 1: to sort of where the state of journalism and for

1396
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:02,800
Speaker 1: profit all that stuff. But I will just say, I mean,

1397
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:06,720
Speaker 1: I think this is this is this is what I

1398
01:26:06,760 --> 01:26:09,759
Speaker 1: call service journalism, and it sort of gets at something

1399
01:26:09,800 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 1: that I think is overall missing in the conversation that

1400
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:16,840
Speaker 1: we're having about the future of journalism. And I think

1401
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:19,439
Speaker 1: sort of where we lost our way collectively, which is

1402
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:24,760
Speaker 1: just this there's not enough service journalism. We you know,

1403
01:26:26,680 --> 01:26:28,479
Speaker 1: I'm curious what you think of this statement, but I

1404
01:26:28,479 --> 01:26:31,800
Speaker 1: have a friend of mine named Richard Gingris who used

1405
01:26:31,800 --> 01:26:34,160
Speaker 1: to run the Google News Initiative, and he said, you know,

1406
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:35,840
Speaker 1: the worst thing that happened to journalism was all the

1407
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:42,000
Speaker 1: president's men. And you know where he's going, because ninety

1408
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:46,040
Speaker 1: percent of the work of a journalist is in service

1409
01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:49,080
Speaker 1: to their community if they're doing it right, it's ten

1410
01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:52,840
Speaker 1: percent of your work over a lifetime. That is that accountability, right.

1411
01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:55,479
Speaker 1: That is the stuff you want to put in your resume,

1412
01:26:55,640 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 1: the stuff you might show up at your obituary, right,

1413
01:26:58,479 --> 01:27:01,600
Speaker 1: the stuff that, yeah, you might apply for an award for.

1414
01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:04,560
Speaker 1: But it's not what most people are going to know

1415
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:07,559
Speaker 1: your journalism for. And it's not the impact, right, it's

1416
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:11,719
Speaker 1: and it's it's one of these where this ranking system

1417
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:18,519
Speaker 1: is more helpful to the average person than doing a

1418
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:23,800
Speaker 1: ah an audit of of just how campaign spending is

1419
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:27,200
Speaker 1: working these days between the NRCC and the NRSC. Right,

1420
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:30,400
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's an unimportant story, but it's it's

1421
01:27:30,439 --> 01:27:35,840
Speaker 1: not service journalism. And I will tell you in my

1422
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:39,960
Speaker 1: conversations with young aspiring journalists, they're getting in not to

1423
01:27:40,600 --> 01:27:43,160
Speaker 1: help people figure out how to save money in their life, right,

1424
01:27:43,200 --> 01:27:46,200
Speaker 1: They're getting in because they want to get Joe Biden

1425
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:48,600
Speaker 1: or get Donald Trump. Right that that they're gonna you know,

1426
01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:53,160
Speaker 1: they're gonna be the next Bob Boarder. How do we

1427
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:56,200
Speaker 1: inspire people to want to be in service that that

1428
01:27:56,280 --> 01:27:59,160
Speaker 1: journalism is both a service and that part of the

1429
01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 1: public service get you to the point where yes, you

1430
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:06,200
Speaker 1: you're trying to build some trust so that when you

1431
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:08,400
Speaker 1: do the accountability, they believe you.

1432
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:13,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, there's always been a hierarchy in journalism. The

1433
01:28:13,320 --> 01:28:16,880
Speaker 2: people who are out there doing the yeoman's work, right,

1434
01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:24,680
Speaker 2: covering the school board, covering uh, you know, government agencies,

1435
01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:26,920
Speaker 2: covering services.

1436
01:28:27,400 --> 01:28:30,360
Speaker 1: You know, snap benefits. How is that going to work?

1437
01:28:30,439 --> 01:28:32,840
Speaker 1: You know things like this. Yeah, you know, the.

1438
01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:36,519
Speaker 2: Beat reporters, they get their they get their share of

1439
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:41,400
Speaker 2: of love from the editor. But who rules the roost

1440
01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:46,639
Speaker 2: the political reporters, right, it's the big time investigative reporters.

1441
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:49,360
Speaker 2: That's where the glory is. That's where you know, you

1442
01:28:49,439 --> 01:28:54,960
Speaker 2: make your most money. And when you compound that by

1443
01:28:55,000 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 2: the utter devastation that has taken place in the last

1444
01:29:01,280 --> 01:29:06,519
Speaker 2: really ten years but really more like twenty of local journalism, Chuck,

1445
01:29:06,520 --> 01:29:09,560
Speaker 2: it's dead. They've it's been deloyed.

1446
01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:15,240
Speaker 1: I think it's the single I think it is the it.

1447
01:29:15,640 --> 01:29:19,519
Speaker 1: If you look at the proverbial house of journalism, it

1448
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:23,400
Speaker 1: turned out local was a foundational right, and you knock

1449
01:29:23,479 --> 01:29:27,840
Speaker 1: out that it collapsed the entire structure. Right, nobody trusts

1450
01:29:27,880 --> 01:29:32,280
Speaker 1: anything because they lost that community tether and that turned

1451
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:36,280
Speaker 1: out to be the single most important connection we had

1452
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:37,040
Speaker 1: with the public.

1453
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:43,280
Speaker 2: So so you know, there's good publications, you know, online,

1454
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:48,240
Speaker 2: nonprofit publications trying to bring back local reporting, bring back

1455
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:53,679
Speaker 2: not just accountability reporting like political and bureaucratic, but as

1456
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:55,320
Speaker 2: you say, the service journalism.

1457
01:29:55,600 --> 01:29:57,320
Speaker 1: Where do I save money? Where can I take my

1458
01:29:57,400 --> 01:29:59,920
Speaker 1: family out of four out to dinner without breaking the bag?

1459
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:04,639
Speaker 1: I know that seems not like the greatest scoop, but

1460
01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:06,519
Speaker 1: that's actually how you help your community.

1461
01:30:06,640 --> 01:30:08,719
Speaker 2: You know, what are the scores at the high school

1462
01:30:09,000 --> 01:30:13,479
Speaker 2: basketball game? People care about that, and you know it's

1463
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:16,080
Speaker 2: you can't just get the data. There was a game there,

1464
01:30:16,240 --> 01:30:20,160
Speaker 2: Somebody tell me, tell me what happened. Uh, you know,

1465
01:30:20,960 --> 01:30:27,160
Speaker 2: weather Best drives within three hours of my town. I mean,

1466
01:30:27,240 --> 01:30:32,439
Speaker 2: there's a thousand things that people want and need. But again,

1467
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:36,720
Speaker 2: the economic underpinnings of that kind of work have disappeared,

1468
01:30:37,080 --> 01:30:41,320
Speaker 2: primarily because of Google and Facebook, and you know there's

1469
01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:45,160
Speaker 2: other reasons for it, but it is primarily the advertising

1470
01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:50,479
Speaker 2: dollar has been hoarded by the Silicon Valley platforms, and

1471
01:30:50,600 --> 01:30:53,320
Speaker 2: without advertising, it is really hard to make it in

1472
01:30:53,360 --> 01:30:57,000
Speaker 2: this in this business, and I run a publication that

1473
01:30:57,520 --> 01:31:02,960
Speaker 2: for a while was doing very well producing online content

1474
01:31:03,040 --> 01:31:06,480
Speaker 2: that was supported by advertising, and then it disappeared.

1475
01:31:06,680 --> 01:31:08,679
Speaker 1: So I've lived in and you don't even know why

1476
01:31:08,680 --> 01:31:11,439
Speaker 1: it disappeared, right because they never were transparent about how

1477
01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:12,679
Speaker 1: the algorithm worked, right.

1478
01:31:12,960 --> 01:31:17,360
Speaker 2: Correct, But you know, in a general sense, we know, right,

1479
01:31:17,479 --> 01:31:26,240
Speaker 2: they monopolized. I mean Google has lost an anti trust

1480
01:31:26,280 --> 01:31:34,479
Speaker 2: case this year monopolizing the ad tech infrastructure, and and

1481
01:31:35,160 --> 01:31:43,120
Speaker 2: they you know, the connection between readers and advertisers at

1482
01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:47,200
Speaker 2: the local level has largely disappeared. There's still some and

1483
01:31:47,240 --> 01:31:49,320
Speaker 2: I think you can come back with the right policies,

1484
01:31:49,360 --> 01:31:53,040
Speaker 2: but boy, it's tough out there, and anybody doing local

1485
01:31:53,080 --> 01:31:57,400
Speaker 2: service journalism, I agree that my hat's off to them.

1486
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:01,360
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's interesting the what what I've discovered.

1487
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:04,679
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm trying to throw myself into this issue

1488
01:32:04,720 --> 01:32:07,040
Speaker 1: a little bit and working on a few projects of

1489
01:32:07,080 --> 01:32:10,120
Speaker 1: trying to is it possible to bring back a to

1490
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:14,200
Speaker 1: create a for profit local news environment. And what you

1491
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:16,519
Speaker 1: do find is, you know who else hates the Google

1492
01:32:16,560 --> 01:32:20,400
Speaker 1: ad network? Local businesses. Yeah, they don't like it either.

1493
01:32:20,479 --> 01:32:27,519
Speaker 1: They prefer a personalized connection. They prefer to advertise in

1494
01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:30,759
Speaker 1: an entity that they that they know. Rather there's quote

1495
01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:34,720
Speaker 1: unquote programmatic advertising, you know, et cetera, or you just

1496
01:32:34,760 --> 01:32:37,360
Speaker 1: sort of find people that stumble upon your stuff. And

1497
01:32:39,040 --> 01:32:42,559
Speaker 1: I do think that, but the I don't know whether

1498
01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:46,479
Speaker 1: this is whether you can do this without the help

1499
01:32:46,520 --> 01:32:49,320
Speaker 1: of government, and I and I'm and I'm torn on

1500
01:32:49,400 --> 01:32:52,000
Speaker 1: it because I don't know how much we want government involved.

1501
01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:56,559
Speaker 2: So there's two ways government can help. Government can and philanthropy, right,

1502
01:32:56,720 --> 01:33:02,960
Speaker 2: can underwrite some of the call or government can change

1503
01:33:03,400 --> 01:33:06,840
Speaker 2: the rules of the marketplace from the ones that wrote

1504
01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:09,840
Speaker 2: yesterday or ten or twenty years ago that destroyed the

1505
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:13,639
Speaker 2: AD dollars two new ones that bring the AD dollars back.

1506
01:33:13,760 --> 01:33:16,240
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you can. You can incentive you know, there

1507
01:33:16,280 --> 01:33:20,519
Speaker 1: is some work being done on the state level trying

1508
01:33:20,600 --> 01:33:24,240
Speaker 1: to you know, you might give a tax break to

1509
01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:27,400
Speaker 1: a local business that advertises in a local publication. So

1510
01:33:27,439 --> 01:33:30,200
Speaker 1: it's not a it's not a direct subsidy to the media.

1511
01:33:30,760 --> 01:33:34,400
Speaker 1: It actually you're helping the small business. So it's a frankly,

1512
01:33:34,439 --> 01:33:36,840
Speaker 1: it's a way to write, it's a way to make

1513
01:33:36,840 --> 01:33:39,840
Speaker 1: it a bipartisan ita to be frank yeh, Well.

1514
01:33:39,680 --> 01:33:42,200
Speaker 2: I hope you know the work of my friend and

1515
01:33:42,240 --> 01:33:43,639
Speaker 2: maybe yours, Steve Waldman.

1516
01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:46,719
Speaker 1: Oh, well it's Steve. Yeah, okay, yes, it's Steve's work.

1517
01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:51,120
Speaker 1: He's he's been he's been going legislature by legislature, making

1518
01:33:51,160 --> 01:33:52,120
Speaker 1: this argument.

1519
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:55,920
Speaker 2: On my board. He's one of my best friends. His

1520
01:33:56,320 --> 01:34:00,400
Speaker 2: organization is Rebuilt Local News, and and you know, I

1521
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:02,720
Speaker 2: think he's making real progress in this.

1522
01:34:03,240 --> 01:34:05,479
Speaker 1: No, he has. I mean I've We've been at a

1523
01:34:05,560 --> 01:34:08,800
Speaker 1: couple events together as we sort of a are pied

1524
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:13,639
Speaker 1: pipering this stuff. And it is, it is. Unfortunately, there

1525
01:34:13,720 --> 01:34:16,960
Speaker 1: is a I do think it's still seen through a

1526
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:21,400
Speaker 1: political lens, right, He's not making the case politic through

1527
01:34:21,439 --> 01:34:24,960
Speaker 1: a political lens, but it's unfortunately local media is being

1528
01:34:24,960 --> 01:34:27,760
Speaker 1: punished for the perception of cable news. You know, I

1529
01:34:27,880 --> 01:34:32,000
Speaker 1: used to scream about this that you know, actually the

1530
01:34:32,240 --> 01:34:34,599
Speaker 1: state of journalism is quite good over the last ten years.

1531
01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:37,200
Speaker 1: It's amazing some of the work that's out there. The

1532
01:34:37,280 --> 01:34:40,559
Speaker 1: problem is our curb appeal, you know. Right, the most

1533
01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:45,280
Speaker 1: prominent news organizations were the three cable channels that really

1534
01:34:45,320 --> 01:34:48,360
Speaker 1: gave journalism a bad reputation. All Right, I'm not going

1535
01:34:48,439 --> 01:34:50,120
Speaker 1: to sit here and say one is bad. I'm not

1536
01:34:50,160 --> 01:34:54,280
Speaker 1: going to get into that. It just the the opinion

1537
01:34:54,320 --> 01:34:58,000
Speaker 1: debates drove the perception of all journalism and it really

1538
01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:00,000
Speaker 1: harmed local more than anybody else.

1539
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:05,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's right, and I think what happened is,

1540
01:35:07,320 --> 01:35:09,360
Speaker 2: you know, when I was a kid, when you were

1541
01:35:09,400 --> 01:35:12,280
Speaker 2: a kid, I'm a little older. You you lived in

1542
01:35:12,320 --> 01:35:16,160
Speaker 2: a medium sized city or a small town or rural area.

1543
01:35:17,240 --> 01:35:19,240
Speaker 2: My parents, you know, I grew up in Saint Louis.

1544
01:35:19,280 --> 01:35:24,559
Speaker 2: They read both the Saint Louis papers, and you were

1545
01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:28,719
Speaker 2: getting a lot of local news, and you were getting

1546
01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:31,400
Speaker 2: political news if you if you had a sizable town

1547
01:35:31,479 --> 01:35:35,160
Speaker 2: like Saint Louis, you had your own reporters in Washington

1548
01:35:36,160 --> 01:35:39,840
Speaker 2: covering the industries, covering government.

1549
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:42,639
Speaker 1: But through the prism of somebody that lived in Saint Louis. Yeah,

1550
01:35:43,439 --> 01:35:44,839
Speaker 1: you know, and that's important.

1551
01:35:44,920 --> 01:35:49,000
Speaker 2: It's important to know what the you know, localizedeers going

1552
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:51,240
Speaker 2: to do to the rivers, right, and so the best

1553
01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:54,040
Speaker 2: guy covering the Army Corps of Engineers was a Saint

1554
01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:59,160
Speaker 2: Louis Post dispassed reporter. But every town in Missouri, you know,

1555
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:03,320
Speaker 2: was caring a p They were carrying post dispatch reporting

1556
01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:05,720
Speaker 2: and then they were doing local reporting. And a lot

1557
01:36:05,720 --> 01:36:09,840
Speaker 2: of those small towns they were very conservative, datorially, sure right.

1558
01:36:10,240 --> 01:36:13,479
Speaker 2: But but the news that they were covering, the national

1559
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:17,400
Speaker 2: news that they were covering was whatever every you know,

1560
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:23,000
Speaker 2: it was kind of everybody else read differences from writers

1561
01:36:23,000 --> 01:36:33,120
Speaker 2: from from ape, from your top, I'm that, and it

1562
01:36:33,160 --> 01:36:38,920
Speaker 2: was allable checked. Those those small towns no longer have

1563
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:43,320
Speaker 2: national news, right, they can't afford it, and and a

1564
01:36:43,360 --> 01:36:45,800
Speaker 2: lot of them just disappeared completely. And so where do

1565
01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:48,800
Speaker 2: people small towns get their news. They go to Fox right,

1566
01:36:49,120 --> 01:36:51,960
Speaker 2: or maybe they go to MSNBC, and that's not news.

1567
01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:55,479
Speaker 2: I mean, they're getting bits of reormation, but in a

1568
01:36:56,280 --> 01:36:58,000
Speaker 2: package of partisanship.

1569
01:36:59,040 --> 01:37:01,920
Speaker 1: Now, and it's so in some ways when you're trying

1570
01:37:01,960 --> 01:37:05,560
Speaker 1: to salvage local news, people look at it. Yeah, but

1571
01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:08,040
Speaker 1: do you have an agenda? Right like that? You know,

1572
01:37:08,120 --> 01:37:11,240
Speaker 1: they've been convinced that that that every if the media

1573
01:37:11,320 --> 01:37:13,519
Speaker 1: is manipulated, it must be up and down the entire

1574
01:37:14,200 --> 01:37:16,479
Speaker 1: ecosystem of media, not just on the on the on

1575
01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:17,639
Speaker 1: the national cable side.

1576
01:37:17,640 --> 01:37:19,800
Speaker 2: But you're I'm really fascinated about what you said, Chuck,

1577
01:37:19,960 --> 01:37:25,479
Speaker 2: that businesses want a relationship with their customers. If you

1578
01:37:25,600 --> 01:37:28,759
Speaker 2: run a hospital and a you know, rural or vault

1579
01:37:28,800 --> 01:37:32,600
Speaker 2: in area, uh, you know, all of your business or

1580
01:37:32,680 --> 01:37:35,240
Speaker 2: most of it comes from the region. Right, you run

1581
01:37:35,280 --> 01:37:40,240
Speaker 2: an HVAC company, if you you know, uh, a grocery business,

1582
01:37:41,200 --> 01:37:43,320
Speaker 2: you need that relationship with the local and and the

1583
01:37:43,720 --> 01:37:47,320
Speaker 2: local papers aren't there to provide it. And I think

1584
01:37:47,560 --> 01:37:51,559
Speaker 2: there's an opportunity there. I keep following that trail.

1585
01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:54,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I I am, And look, I'm a

1586
01:37:54,200 --> 01:37:57,800
Speaker 1: huge believer that that look we've got. As I joke,

1587
01:37:57,840 --> 01:38:01,080
Speaker 1: a man named Craig decided classifies out to be YadA, YadA, YadA.

1588
01:38:01,160 --> 01:38:03,759
Speaker 2: The entire local news industry got destroyed.

1589
01:38:06,000 --> 01:38:10,920
Speaker 1: But I still think that it's possible local sports and

1590
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:15,919
Speaker 1: even youth sports below high school could be the connective

1591
01:38:16,000 --> 01:38:18,600
Speaker 1: tissue that starts the rebuilding process. It may not be

1592
01:38:18,680 --> 01:38:21,720
Speaker 1: the elixir, I mean might it'd be as helpful as

1593
01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:25,320
Speaker 1: classified advertising is. But boy, the one I just look

1594
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:29,240
Speaker 1: at it as what can bring red and blue together kids? Right,

1595
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:32,320
Speaker 1: and and we love sports in this country, and now

1596
01:38:32,439 --> 01:38:34,960
Speaker 1: sports is going to be a pipeline to college more

1597
01:38:35,040 --> 01:38:37,600
Speaker 1: than ever before. Right with the variety of you know,

1598
01:38:37,720 --> 01:38:40,639
Speaker 1: with this, with this NI, l're we're making a limp.

1599
01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:44,439
Speaker 1: We're sort of it's possible this new world of nil

1600
01:38:45,000 --> 01:38:49,240
Speaker 1: and sports might actually expand the opportunities of people paying

1601
01:38:49,280 --> 01:38:52,880
Speaker 1: for college with sports the way frankly the arts were

1602
01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:56,040
Speaker 1: used to pay for college, you know, previous generations, and

1603
01:38:56,479 --> 01:38:58,080
Speaker 1: and that's maybe.

1604
01:38:57,880 --> 01:39:00,760
Speaker 2: That's a good thing, let's hope.

1605
01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:03,559
Speaker 1: So I know, I'm not gonna sit here's saying it definitely,

1606
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:06,880
Speaker 1: but it's possible that this is a that this is

1607
01:39:07,000 --> 01:39:13,080
Speaker 1: a it's a hand up the ladder, not necessarily. Uh uh.

1608
01:39:13,880 --> 01:39:16,439
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not saying some universities aren't going. I mean,

1609
01:39:16,520 --> 01:39:18,799
Speaker 1: what we're seeing in college football is a little insane,

1610
01:39:19,680 --> 01:39:22,880
Speaker 1: but if you go to that next level down, you know,

1611
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:26,200
Speaker 1: it's really serving as an opportunity for young women. Yep,

1612
01:39:26,640 --> 01:39:28,280
Speaker 1: you know in ways that we've not seen before.

1613
01:39:29,680 --> 01:39:35,719
Speaker 2: And and you know, the Silicon Valley keeps throwing punches.

1614
01:39:37,000 --> 01:39:41,320
Speaker 2: And right now, what's happening to local news is their

1615
01:39:42,000 --> 01:39:47,439
Speaker 2: contents beings great by AI. Right and and there's a

1616
01:39:47,800 --> 01:39:53,920
Speaker 2: pretty fascinating movement happening, uh with a company by the

1617
01:39:54,040 --> 01:39:57,040
Speaker 2: name of cloud Stream. I think it's called you may

1618
01:39:57,080 --> 01:40:01,200
Speaker 2: have looked about it where they host media sites. It

1619
01:40:01,240 --> 01:40:03,600
Speaker 2: holds all kinds of sites and they give you the

1620
01:40:03,720 --> 01:40:08,120
Speaker 2: ability to say, I don't want AI scrape in my side,

1621
01:40:09,040 --> 01:40:11,760
Speaker 2: and you don't have to do anything. It's done automatically

1622
01:40:11,880 --> 01:40:15,720
Speaker 2: for you. Well, that's got the AI folks freaked out

1623
01:40:16,240 --> 01:40:22,280
Speaker 2: because the inability to have real time, fact checked information

1624
01:40:22,800 --> 01:40:27,880
Speaker 2: in local areas turns AI into mush. Right, they've already

1625
01:40:27,880 --> 01:40:30,040
Speaker 2: scraped all the old stuff, and so they've got a lot.

1626
01:40:30,200 --> 01:40:36,360
Speaker 2: But things change, right, Downtown's changed, roads change, people move,

1627
01:40:36,960 --> 01:40:40,280
Speaker 2: and if you can't get that information, and that's what

1628
01:40:40,360 --> 01:40:44,200
Speaker 2: the local you know, press has, so they've got more

1629
01:40:44,280 --> 01:40:45,320
Speaker 2: leverage than they think.

1630
01:40:46,320 --> 01:40:49,200
Speaker 1: Well, it's it's look, I'm not you know, I'm one

1631
01:40:49,240 --> 01:40:51,920
Speaker 1: of those who just views AI neutrally. It can be

1632
01:40:52,040 --> 01:40:55,479
Speaker 1: weaponized for good or weaponized for bad, or frankly, probably

1633
01:40:55,520 --> 01:40:58,560
Speaker 1: a little bit of both. We just have to be

1634
01:40:58,640 --> 01:41:02,679
Speaker 1: smart about how we use it as a tool. Yeah, Paul,

1635
01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:06,720
Speaker 1: this was great. The Washington Monthly is as innovative as ever.

1636
01:41:07,320 --> 01:41:09,160
Speaker 1: And what I like about it is that there's always

1637
01:41:09,640 --> 01:41:13,160
Speaker 1: it's a home for sort of different ideas. It's you know,

1638
01:41:13,600 --> 01:41:17,160
Speaker 1: it's not always the conventional, not just in some ways

1639
01:41:17,240 --> 01:41:21,280
Speaker 1: left right debates get conventional. And I hate to say this,

1640
01:41:21,360 --> 01:41:25,519
Speaker 1: but there's certain editorial pages that, ah, the editorials new

1641
01:41:25,560 --> 01:41:26,879
Speaker 1: but I've read it a hundred times.

1642
01:41:27,160 --> 01:41:30,519
Speaker 2: You kind of know where they're coming from and play

1643
01:41:30,560 --> 01:41:32,479
Speaker 2: in a different version of the same song.

1644
01:41:32,880 --> 01:41:35,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you do seem to have a you know,

1645
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:38,280
Speaker 1: what is it that makes a Washington Monthly story that

1646
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:41,040
Speaker 1: doesn't make it into the Washington Post? What would be

1647
01:41:41,120 --> 01:41:45,519
Speaker 1: your what? What's the secret ingredient in your mind?

1648
01:41:46,800 --> 01:41:54,439
Speaker 2: We're not afraid to put the same reporting energy into

1649
01:41:55,479 --> 01:42:03,600
Speaker 2: figuring out solutions as slothing out problem and conventional journalism.

1650
01:42:04,439 --> 01:42:07,120
Speaker 2: You know, the opinion section may have a piece or

1651
01:42:07,160 --> 01:42:11,280
Speaker 2: two on some new policy idea, some new way out right,

1652
01:42:11,760 --> 01:42:14,599
Speaker 2: but mostly they feel that that's not their job.

1653
01:42:15,040 --> 01:42:16,679
Speaker 1: No, let me find problems.

1654
01:42:17,400 --> 01:42:21,080
Speaker 2: We find problems. There's no politics there, you know, every

1655
01:42:22,080 --> 01:42:25,080
Speaker 2: but solutions have a kind of political valance or they might.

1656
01:42:26,760 --> 01:42:29,360
Speaker 2: And we do this twenty four to seven. That's what

1657
01:42:29,520 --> 01:42:32,479
Speaker 2: we did. We're more guided by figuring out how to

1658
01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:36,519
Speaker 2: fix things than slew the out. I mean, obviously we uh,

1659
01:42:37,080 --> 01:42:39,040
Speaker 2: you know, one of my colleagues says, you know that

1660
01:42:39,280 --> 01:42:42,080
Speaker 2: the problem with the Monthly is we provide solutions to

1661
01:42:42,160 --> 01:42:45,160
Speaker 2: problems people don't know they have. Oh, there's not much

1662
01:42:45,200 --> 01:42:48,280
Speaker 2: of a market for it. But yeah, and I think

1663
01:42:48,280 --> 01:42:49,439
Speaker 2: that's the big the big difference.

1664
01:42:49,760 --> 01:42:51,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I know. It's like, I think one of

1665
01:42:51,320 --> 01:42:54,160
Speaker 1: the big solutions to some of our political distrust is

1666
01:42:54,240 --> 01:42:58,679
Speaker 1: to expand Congress. Many people don't think that's a problem

1667
01:42:58,760 --> 01:43:00,600
Speaker 1: that needed to be solved. I've had I've had a

1668
01:43:00,680 --> 01:43:04,200
Speaker 1: hard time getting lay people to uh to see that

1669
01:43:04,520 --> 01:43:08,200
Speaker 1: right away. And it's like, just you know, but but

1670
01:43:08,320 --> 01:43:10,880
Speaker 1: I take your point. And yet you know a lot

1671
01:43:10,960 --> 01:43:13,719
Speaker 1: of times what you read today in the Washington Monthly

1672
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:16,600
Speaker 1: will be a solution that government eventually agrees to in

1673
01:43:16,640 --> 01:43:17,400
Speaker 1: about five years.

1674
01:43:17,720 --> 01:43:20,360
Speaker 2: That's how it works. And we have we have a lot,

1675
01:43:20,400 --> 01:43:21,640
Speaker 2: we have a long record of that.

1676
01:43:22,040 --> 01:43:25,439
Speaker 1: Yes you do, yes, you do well. You recognize Paul

1677
01:43:25,520 --> 01:43:28,080
Speaker 1: Glasters always pleasure, Thank you sir, great to see it.

1678
01:43:28,400 --> 01:43:29,599
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on. Buddy.

1679
01:43:41,080 --> 01:43:43,400
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know about you, but I am. I

1680
01:43:43,520 --> 01:43:47,080
Speaker 1: want to go visit Maria College now in Kentucky in particular,

1681
01:43:47,680 --> 01:43:51,080
Speaker 1: uh and just see it my see see it for myself.

1682
01:43:52,240 --> 01:43:54,720
Speaker 1: But that was very eye opening conversation I had with

1683
01:43:54,800 --> 01:43:58,679
Speaker 1: Paul and uh do dive in to the Washington Monthly

1684
01:44:00,120 --> 01:44:03,360
Speaker 1: drankings there and how they split it up and they

1685
01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:06,320
Speaker 1: split it up, research different ways to look at it,

1686
01:44:06,439 --> 01:44:10,000
Speaker 1: pure affordability. They have it by region, but it was

1687
01:44:12,040 --> 01:44:15,920
Speaker 1: it really frankly, it made me feel better about the

1688
01:44:16,040 --> 01:44:16,840
Speaker 1: state of Higher ed.

1689
01:44:16,920 --> 01:44:17,040
Speaker 2: Now.

1690
01:44:17,080 --> 01:44:21,519
Speaker 1: I'm obviously really concerned if we're gonna if if this,

1691
01:44:22,439 --> 01:44:27,320
Speaker 1: if the federal funding attacks end up making life miserable

1692
01:44:27,400 --> 01:44:31,240
Speaker 1: for the smaller colleges as we go forward. But anyway,

1693
01:44:31,360 --> 01:44:32,080
Speaker 1: let's do a few.

1694
01:44:32,000 --> 01:44:41,280
Speaker 2: Q and as as Chuck as Chuck.

1695
01:44:55,439 --> 01:44:57,680
Speaker 1: This one comes from John A from New Orleans. Hey, Chuck,

1696
01:44:57,760 --> 01:45:00,120
Speaker 1: really loved the cast. As Mayor Koch would say, you

1697
01:45:00,160 --> 01:45:02,720
Speaker 1: are a voice of reason. I appreciate that. Here's an

1698
01:45:02,760 --> 01:45:04,400
Speaker 1: idea that I would like your feedback on. We use

1699
01:45:04,439 --> 01:45:06,400
Speaker 1: the tax code to influence behavior all the time, yes,

1700
01:45:06,479 --> 01:45:08,760
Speaker 1: we do. Why not do it to encourage a true

1701
01:45:08,800 --> 01:45:11,320
Speaker 1: democratic good. Give people a seventy five dollars tax credit

1702
01:45:11,360 --> 01:45:13,800
Speaker 1: every time they vote in a national election. More voters

1703
01:45:13,800 --> 01:45:17,639
Speaker 1: would significantly change voting dynamics. It would give third parties

1704
01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:20,439
Speaker 1: a real shot in the arm. The effect would be profound,

1705
01:45:21,080 --> 01:45:23,880
Speaker 1: and we wouldn't need a constitutional convention to make the change.

1706
01:45:24,000 --> 01:45:33,479
Speaker 1: Thoughts interesting, So we're paying people to vote. I guess

1707
01:45:33,720 --> 01:45:36,240
Speaker 1: that's you know, it's not like Austria. What is I

1708
01:45:36,280 --> 01:45:42,760
Speaker 1: think it's Australia that has sort of mandatory voting. I

1709
01:45:42,840 --> 01:45:49,040
Speaker 1: don't know, I'm I hear what you're saying. There's a

1710
01:45:49,120 --> 01:45:52,559
Speaker 1: part of me. There's a lyric from an old Rush song.

1711
01:45:52,680 --> 01:45:54,840
Speaker 1: If you choose not to decide, you still have made

1712
01:45:54,880 --> 01:46:01,519
Speaker 1: a choice. It's their song free will. So are we

1713
01:46:01,560 --> 01:46:03,880
Speaker 1: going to financially penalize people who decide they want to

1714
01:46:03,880 --> 01:46:06,000
Speaker 1: sit out a national election? You see where I'm going here,

1715
01:46:06,160 --> 01:46:10,280
Speaker 1: So I hear where you're going. I you know, we

1716
01:46:10,360 --> 01:46:13,080
Speaker 1: had that back and I don't know. I'm not going

1717
01:46:13,160 --> 01:46:14,760
Speaker 1: to guess what your age is. But there was a

1718
01:46:14,840 --> 01:46:17,160
Speaker 1: time where you used to be able to check off

1719
01:46:17,200 --> 01:46:20,960
Speaker 1: on your tax returns. You know, yes, I want, you know,

1720
01:46:21,080 --> 01:46:24,000
Speaker 1: a dollar, one dollar of my tax return to go

1721
01:46:24,200 --> 01:46:29,479
Speaker 1: to the presidential presidential campaign fund. This was back when

1722
01:46:29,520 --> 01:46:32,599
Speaker 1: presidential candidates would get matching funds. We had a period

1723
01:46:32,640 --> 01:46:34,439
Speaker 1: of time where we were hoping to at least partially

1724
01:46:34,600 --> 01:46:37,880
Speaker 1: public fund elections to keep you know, to sort of

1725
01:46:38,120 --> 01:46:41,439
Speaker 1: keep the influence of money down. Well, eventually, you know,

1726
01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:43,439
Speaker 1: I think George W. Bush was the first one to

1727
01:46:43,439 --> 01:46:45,360
Speaker 1: be able to raise enough money not having to worry

1728
01:46:45,400 --> 01:46:47,200
Speaker 1: about the federal system. And then all of a sudden,

1729
01:46:47,200 --> 01:46:50,320
Speaker 1: everybody got out of it and so it's it's sort

1730
01:46:50,360 --> 01:46:54,720
Speaker 1: of lost its relevance. But I do agree with you

1731
01:46:54,960 --> 01:46:58,480
Speaker 1: generally that the tax code is a good that financial

1732
01:46:58,960 --> 01:47:01,400
Speaker 1: financial incentive. In some ways. It goes back to the

1733
01:47:01,640 --> 01:47:06,320
Speaker 1: incentive issue. Right, if you want if you want better outcomes,

1734
01:47:06,400 --> 01:47:09,040
Speaker 1: then create better incentives. Right. If you think more people

1735
01:47:09,120 --> 01:47:13,599
Speaker 1: need to participate, then that is one idea to certainly

1736
01:47:13,640 --> 01:47:18,080
Speaker 1: incentivize people to do it. I still think that the

1737
01:47:18,120 --> 01:47:21,519
Speaker 1: bigger issue is we need equal access to the ballot,

1738
01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:26,120
Speaker 1: and you need equal access to vote for everybody, right,

1739
01:47:26,200 --> 01:47:31,240
Speaker 1: And I do think primaries, particularly state run, state funded primaries,

1740
01:47:31,400 --> 01:47:34,880
Speaker 1: do violate equal protection. You know. The fact is, if

1741
01:47:34,880 --> 01:47:37,000
Speaker 1: I'm not a registered voter of that party, I can't

1742
01:47:37,000 --> 01:47:42,000
Speaker 1: participate in that taxpayer funded election. That feels like a penalty.

1743
01:47:44,080 --> 01:47:47,160
Speaker 1: And so I do think that if you're looking at

1744
01:47:47,200 --> 01:47:52,439
Speaker 1: one thing, one single thing that we could do differently

1745
01:47:52,520 --> 01:47:57,000
Speaker 1: that might actually have massive impact on our politics, is

1746
01:47:57,040 --> 01:48:02,360
Speaker 1: if we got rid of partisan primaries altogether and had

1747
01:48:02,640 --> 01:48:06,959
Speaker 1: essentially everybody, you know, like the mayor's races, all party primaries.

1748
01:48:09,040 --> 01:48:12,719
Speaker 1: So I'm with you on uh using the tax code

1749
01:48:12,720 --> 01:48:17,600
Speaker 1: as a way to incentivize better behavior. I struggle with

1750
01:48:17,720 --> 01:48:20,360
Speaker 1: the idea of using it as a reward for voting.

1751
01:48:21,760 --> 01:48:27,920
Speaker 1: You know, it's sort of there's it that I in

1752
01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:31,479
Speaker 1: a weird way that feels, you know, one step away

1753
01:48:31,520 --> 01:48:34,479
Speaker 1: from buying a vote. Right, So there's a I just

1754
01:48:34,840 --> 01:48:39,200
Speaker 1: I'll admit I'm slightly uncomfortable with that larger concept, but

1755
01:48:39,320 --> 01:48:42,479
Speaker 1: I am quite comfortable with using the tax code to

1756
01:48:42,560 --> 01:48:45,600
Speaker 1: incentive I mean, look, home ownership in some ways is

1757
01:48:47,360 --> 01:48:51,160
Speaker 1: promoted because of the tech. We promote home ownership through

1758
01:48:51,200 --> 01:48:55,960
Speaker 1: the tax code with mortgage deduction. So there's always I think,

1759
01:48:56,040 --> 01:49:00,280
Speaker 1: good ways to use the tax code to help to

1760
01:49:00,400 --> 01:49:05,080
Speaker 1: help people, if you will. But interesting thought and certainly

1761
01:49:05,120 --> 01:49:09,040
Speaker 1: worth chewing on. Thanks for the question, John, all right.

1762
01:49:09,080 --> 01:49:10,880
Speaker 1: Next question comes from Carry and saying Lewis, Hey, Chuck,

1763
01:49:10,920 --> 01:49:13,479
Speaker 1: You've mentioned the logistical challenge of third parties, but with

1764
01:49:13,600 --> 01:49:16,439
Speaker 1: Democrats wandering in the wilderness and Republicans without a platform,

1765
01:49:16,760 --> 01:49:19,439
Speaker 1: what about an American unity platform that anyone running could

1766
01:49:19,439 --> 01:49:22,479
Speaker 1: pledge to support. Focus on making government more responsive to

1767
01:49:22,560 --> 01:49:24,479
Speaker 1: the needs of citizens, working to get big money out

1768
01:49:24,479 --> 01:49:28,719
Speaker 1: of politics, constitutional convention ending germ mandering, maybe even required

1769
01:49:29,400 --> 01:49:32,719
Speaker 1: civic service for young people. Yes, I'm huge national service person.

1770
01:49:33,120 --> 01:49:35,200
Speaker 1: Could that work? What would you include in this platform.

1771
01:49:35,280 --> 01:49:38,880
Speaker 1: Thanks and I love the history highlights. Oh great best wishes. Look,

1772
01:49:38,920 --> 01:49:42,040
Speaker 1: I love this And in many ways what you're describing

1773
01:49:42,160 --> 01:49:46,280
Speaker 1: is what my late mentor Doug Bailey, when he Unity

1774
01:49:46,600 --> 01:49:48,679
Speaker 1: eight is what he called it back in two thousand

1775
01:49:48,720 --> 01:49:51,880
Speaker 1: and eight. In the run up to that election, he

1776
01:49:52,040 --> 01:49:54,519
Speaker 1: was trying to create a process that could help nominate

1777
01:49:54,600 --> 01:49:59,760
Speaker 1: a bipartisan ticket. Well, then the two parties nominated the

1778
01:49:59,760 --> 01:50:02,679
Speaker 1: two the most bipartisan people that were running. Right, Literally,

1779
01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:07,000
Speaker 1: the most popular Democrat among Republicans was Barack Obama and

1780
01:50:07,040 --> 01:50:10,800
Speaker 1: the most popular Republican among Democrats was John McCain. They

1781
01:50:10,920 --> 01:50:13,479
Speaker 1: both did well among independents, and they both won their nomination,

1782
01:50:13,600 --> 01:50:16,680
Speaker 1: So it made Unity eight kind of a pointless exercise.

1783
01:50:16,720 --> 01:50:21,400
Speaker 1: He was anticipating that it would be Hillary Clinton and

1784
01:50:21,479 --> 01:50:25,719
Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani right, a more polarizing, divisive matchup that would

1785
01:50:25,720 --> 01:50:31,439
Speaker 1: then leave room for a more unifying bipartisan ticket. But

1786
01:50:31,720 --> 01:50:35,800
Speaker 1: it is, you know, he and in fact, what is

1787
01:50:36,320 --> 01:50:40,880
Speaker 1: the today's Forward Party has some of the remnants of

1788
01:50:41,080 --> 01:50:43,439
Speaker 1: what Doug began. Some of the folks that have been

1789
01:50:43,760 --> 01:50:47,320
Speaker 1: working on the Open Primaries movement to try to sort

1790
01:50:47,320 --> 01:50:50,880
Speaker 1: of get rid of partisan primaries. The gentleman that's been

1791
01:50:50,920 --> 01:50:56,479
Speaker 1: working on trying to get rank choice voting to be

1792
01:50:56,600 --> 01:50:59,519
Speaker 1: considered in other states. All of it is derivative of

1793
01:51:00,160 --> 01:51:06,960
Speaker 1: what Doug began with Unity O eight. And I will

1794
01:51:07,000 --> 01:51:09,320
Speaker 1: tell you this, You are to me on the right

1795
01:51:09,479 --> 01:51:14,000
Speaker 1: path of what kind of to me that look in

1796
01:51:14,040 --> 01:51:16,320
Speaker 1: an ideal word would be a four party system. I

1797
01:51:16,439 --> 01:51:18,880
Speaker 1: think that's I'm not gonna I'm trying to be realistic here.

1798
01:51:19,560 --> 01:51:24,320
Speaker 1: The most the most likely way that a third party

1799
01:51:24,360 --> 01:51:28,880
Speaker 1: could have an impact is sort of helping to reform

1800
01:51:29,200 --> 01:51:33,960
Speaker 1: the two major parties by sort of running a race

1801
01:51:34,040 --> 01:51:37,400
Speaker 1: that did this and I think you don't you want

1802
01:51:37,439 --> 01:51:40,000
Speaker 1: to plan And this gets it to a debate that

1803
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:44,400
Speaker 1: I know some folks that are involved with the Forward Party,

1804
01:51:44,960 --> 01:51:47,439
Speaker 1: Andrew Yang, Christie Whitman Party, the sort of the third

1805
01:51:47,479 --> 01:51:50,639
Speaker 1: party movement where there's a debate are they a movement

1806
01:51:50,800 --> 01:51:53,120
Speaker 1: to try to get the two parties to become more

1807
01:51:53,200 --> 01:51:55,760
Speaker 1: rational or do they want to be their own standalone

1808
01:51:55,800 --> 01:51:58,400
Speaker 1: party that essentially replaces one of the two major parties

1809
01:51:59,640 --> 01:52:03,080
Speaker 1: and why? And if you're going to be one thing,

1810
01:52:03,160 --> 01:52:06,559
Speaker 1: then you're going to have more issues you might take

1811
01:52:06,560 --> 01:52:08,600
Speaker 1: a stand on. And the more issues you take a

1812
01:52:08,640 --> 01:52:12,559
Speaker 1: stand on the more opportunity you have of potentially pushing

1813
01:52:12,640 --> 01:52:14,640
Speaker 1: some people, you know, away, If you're trying to be

1814
01:52:14,760 --> 01:52:20,680
Speaker 1: this sort of moderate party that sort of shoots, you know,

1815
01:52:20,760 --> 01:52:23,400
Speaker 1: that sort of shoots the gap in between the two parties,

1816
01:52:24,400 --> 01:52:26,519
Speaker 1: then I do think you want a platform like the

1817
01:52:26,560 --> 01:52:29,000
Speaker 1: one you describe, where hey, look, we need to we

1818
01:52:29,080 --> 01:52:32,880
Speaker 1: need to make some massive reforms in how the democracy works.

1819
01:52:34,840 --> 01:52:36,759
Speaker 1: And this isn't going to be about whether we should

1820
01:52:36,800 --> 01:52:39,280
Speaker 1: have more immigrants or less immigrants. This is about whether

1821
01:52:39,360 --> 01:52:43,280
Speaker 1: we're going to have a system that is easily understandable

1822
01:52:43,280 --> 01:52:44,439
Speaker 1: and how immigration works.

1823
01:52:44,560 --> 01:52:44,640
Speaker 2: Right.

1824
01:52:44,960 --> 01:52:48,599
Speaker 1: It is almost like a technocratic campaign that you would run. Now,

1825
01:52:48,680 --> 01:52:50,439
Speaker 1: the problem with that is I think you need an

1826
01:52:50,520 --> 01:52:55,320
Speaker 1: incredibly charismatic individual to be the leader of that movement.

1827
01:52:55,439 --> 01:52:57,960
Speaker 1: Ross Perrot had his own charisma, Teddy Roosevelt had his

1828
01:52:58,000 --> 01:53:01,160
Speaker 1: own charisma. Shoot even George waller Us, who was arguably

1829
01:53:01,560 --> 01:53:05,840
Speaker 1: had some success at least in shifting that election to

1830
01:53:06,000 --> 01:53:12,200
Speaker 1: Nixon in sixty eight, had had enough charisma to lead

1831
01:53:12,240 --> 01:53:14,880
Speaker 1: a movement. So there is a you can't just do

1832
01:53:15,040 --> 01:53:21,519
Speaker 1: this as a dry technocratic exercise. But I do think

1833
01:53:23,320 --> 01:53:27,080
Speaker 1: going after process and talking about how we need the

1834
01:53:27,160 --> 01:53:30,240
Speaker 1: structural reform of the democracy. And I think post Trump

1835
01:53:30,360 --> 01:53:32,519
Speaker 1: there'll be an appetite for this. The question is is

1836
01:53:32,560 --> 01:53:34,479
Speaker 1: there an appetite for it in twenty eight or do

1837
01:53:34,600 --> 01:53:37,920
Speaker 1: we need sort of a couple more years removed from

1838
01:53:38,000 --> 01:53:42,160
Speaker 1: Trump before there'll be a full appetite for this. But

1839
01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:46,479
Speaker 1: American Unity Platform, I mean, I'm going to keep saying

1840
01:53:46,520 --> 01:53:48,160
Speaker 1: it over and over. So my friends at the Forward

1841
01:53:48,160 --> 01:53:52,439
Speaker 1: Party who I know listened to this podcast regularly. It's

1842
01:53:52,479 --> 01:53:56,880
Speaker 1: a good idea because, especially if it's about how you

1843
01:53:57,080 --> 01:53:59,280
Speaker 1: centered it, how do you make government more responsive? Right?

1844
01:53:59,360 --> 01:54:02,200
Speaker 1: Things I'd put in there is doubling the size of

1845
01:54:02,240 --> 01:54:05,240
Speaker 1: the House. Right, maybe it's a constitutional amendment that says,

1846
01:54:05,640 --> 01:54:09,000
Speaker 1: you know, no congressional district can be you know, bigger

1847
01:54:09,040 --> 01:54:11,519
Speaker 1: than point zero zero zero one percent of the population,

1848
01:54:11,840 --> 01:54:14,160
Speaker 1: which would give a metric so that way you could

1849
01:54:14,160 --> 01:54:17,679
Speaker 1: deal in case our population shrinks overtime rather than expands.

1850
01:54:18,640 --> 01:54:20,080
Speaker 1: But that's something I would put in there because I

1851
01:54:20,120 --> 01:54:22,200
Speaker 1: think that would be something that would make us more responsive.

1852
01:54:22,240 --> 01:54:25,160
Speaker 1: Getting rid of partisan primaries where you're doing things that

1853
01:54:25,280 --> 01:54:28,840
Speaker 1: are not about specific issues themselves, because that's where you

1854
01:54:28,920 --> 01:54:32,800
Speaker 1: start to a third Parties can sometimes lose support almost

1855
01:54:33,080 --> 01:54:38,880
Speaker 1: the more positions you start taking. So it is it is.

1856
01:54:39,560 --> 01:54:44,480
Speaker 1: You certainly have warmed my heart in what you're prescribing.

1857
01:54:44,600 --> 01:54:48,480
Speaker 1: But one of the things that I've learned is when

1858
01:54:48,480 --> 01:54:50,600
Speaker 1: you have the luxury to worry about this, and you

1859
01:54:50,640 --> 01:54:53,400
Speaker 1: don't have a financial crisis in your life or a

1860
01:54:53,440 --> 01:54:57,200
Speaker 1: healthcare crisis, you have the luxury to worry about the democracy.

1861
01:54:57,240 --> 01:54:59,280
Speaker 1: There's a lot of voters out there who, in theory

1862
01:54:59,680 --> 01:55:02,200
Speaker 1: might have with this platform, but are more worried about

1863
01:55:02,240 --> 01:55:04,240
Speaker 1: the near term and are going to be more in

1864
01:55:04,360 --> 01:55:08,400
Speaker 1: tune with somebody that's going to throw them a bone immediately, right,

1865
01:55:08,480 --> 01:55:11,600
Speaker 1: a benefit bone of some sort immediately. And I think

1866
01:55:11,680 --> 01:55:14,640
Speaker 1: that's that's the only risk in trying to run a

1867
01:55:14,880 --> 01:55:17,960
Speaker 1: very sort of let's fix the democracy, because you almost

1868
01:55:18,000 --> 01:55:20,480
Speaker 1: have to have a majority agreement that it's broken, and

1869
01:55:20,520 --> 01:55:23,520
Speaker 1: we're getting there, right. We have over sixty percent saying

1870
01:55:23,520 --> 01:55:27,160
Speaker 1: we're in a political crisis. So it may be that

1871
01:55:27,360 --> 01:55:31,560
Speaker 1: by the fall of twenty seven this is a very

1872
01:55:31,800 --> 01:55:36,800
Speaker 1: appealing idea, which is but the idea of just putting

1873
01:55:36,840 --> 01:55:41,160
Speaker 1: out a platform, almost without a candidate and even without

1874
01:55:41,160 --> 01:55:44,560
Speaker 1: a political party, is an interesting idea as well. So anyway,

1875
01:55:45,240 --> 01:55:46,800
Speaker 1: you've given me a lot to chew On that that's

1876
01:55:46,960 --> 01:55:48,440
Speaker 1: this is not something I want to give up. The

1877
01:55:48,480 --> 01:55:52,160
Speaker 1: American Unity platform. I love, I love how that sounds

1878
01:55:53,040 --> 01:55:57,320
Speaker 1: all right. Next question comes from Heather from Littleton, Colorado. Hey, there,

1879
01:55:57,360 --> 01:55:59,800
Speaker 1: I heard you chat your chat with Chrystaliza and appreciated

1880
01:55:59,840 --> 01:56:02,200
Speaker 1: what she said about Trump being the worst role model

1881
01:56:02,200 --> 01:56:03,840
Speaker 1: for our children. I have two boys, and my younger

1882
01:56:03,880 --> 01:56:06,200
Speaker 1: son was born on election Day twenty sixteen. I remember

1883
01:56:06,240 --> 01:56:08,440
Speaker 1: sitting in the hospital, heartbroken that our country had elected

1884
01:56:08,440 --> 01:56:10,880
Speaker 1: a man who embodied everything I didn't want them to become.

1885
01:56:11,280 --> 01:56:14,080
Speaker 1: As a lifelong Conservative and former staffer for Rix and Torum,

1886
01:56:14,600 --> 01:56:16,560
Speaker 1: I even voted for Hillary Clinton that year because I

1887
01:56:16,640 --> 01:56:19,360
Speaker 1: feared that would happen under his presidency. Sadly, both his

1888
01:56:19,480 --> 01:56:24,440
Speaker 1: temperament and character have only worsened. Sense Heather from Littleton, Colorado. Well,

1889
01:56:25,040 --> 01:56:28,040
Speaker 1: you know this goes to the issue of character, and

1890
01:56:28,160 --> 01:56:34,520
Speaker 1: it goes back to for whatever reason, and I think

1891
01:56:35,280 --> 01:56:39,560
Speaker 1: in sixteen, look, I think you and I share a

1892
01:56:39,600 --> 01:56:42,000
Speaker 1: similar way that we vote, which is, I do character

1893
01:56:42,080 --> 01:56:45,120
Speaker 1: matters a lot, right. I think character is destiny. I

1894
01:56:45,200 --> 01:56:47,440
Speaker 1: think high character people are going to do the right thing.

1895
01:56:47,520 --> 01:56:49,400
Speaker 1: Low character people are more likely to do the wrong

1896
01:56:49,440 --> 01:56:53,600
Speaker 1: thing or more likely to be out for themselves, and

1897
01:56:53,720 --> 01:57:01,000
Speaker 1: I certainly believe that. Unfortunately, a second Trump term has perhaps, Look,

1898
01:57:01,080 --> 01:57:05,720
Speaker 1: we're courser, we just are as a society, and you

1899
01:57:05,840 --> 01:57:12,440
Speaker 1: can't tell me it's disconnected from the way Donald Trump

1900
01:57:12,520 --> 01:57:17,920
Speaker 1: has modeled himself for the American people. I mean, you

1901
01:57:18,040 --> 01:57:20,800
Speaker 1: may have heard me say this. I think the American

1902
01:57:20,920 --> 01:57:26,800
Speaker 1: bad behavior at Bethpage Black during the Ryder Cup is

1903
01:57:27,280 --> 01:57:31,440
Speaker 1: representative of the Trump era. Do I say Trump himself

1904
01:57:31,680 --> 01:57:34,480
Speaker 1: go toed those people to behave that way? No, I'm

1905
01:57:34,520 --> 01:57:37,080
Speaker 1: not going to go that far. But I think his

1906
01:57:37,280 --> 01:57:40,040
Speaker 1: behavior gives a permission slip that it's okay to sort

1907
01:57:40,080 --> 01:57:46,720
Speaker 1: of be be rude, be dismissive, be dehumanizing. Hey, if

1908
01:57:46,760 --> 01:57:49,480
Speaker 1: the president does it, why can't I. And of course

1909
01:57:49,760 --> 01:57:52,600
Speaker 1: this gets it to what we're watching how the Democrats

1910
01:57:52,640 --> 01:58:01,280
Speaker 1: are dealing with this Virginia issue, where there was there

1911
01:58:01,400 --> 01:58:04,200
Speaker 1: was an attempt to hold Republicans accountable when they misbehaved

1912
01:58:04,680 --> 01:58:06,360
Speaker 1: like this, and there are a lot of Democrats who

1913
01:58:06,400 --> 01:58:11,040
Speaker 1: were lecturing Republicans for not holding their own side accountable.

1914
01:58:11,080 --> 01:58:14,560
Speaker 1: And here you have something on the Democratic side and

1915
01:58:15,040 --> 01:58:18,320
Speaker 1: they're not immediately taking the moral high ground here on character,

1916
01:58:18,400 --> 01:58:22,000
Speaker 1: and it's you know how much of that is and

1917
01:58:22,120 --> 01:58:25,360
Speaker 1: you see that sort of some supporters of Jay Jones

1918
01:58:25,360 --> 01:58:28,080
Speaker 1: have essentially said, well, if Trump can do it, why

1919
01:58:28,200 --> 01:58:31,720
Speaker 1: can't Why can't we is essentially, you know, if the

1920
01:58:31,840 --> 01:58:33,840
Speaker 1: voters are going to forgive him, why wouldn't the voters

1921
01:58:34,640 --> 01:58:38,040
Speaker 1: forgive j Jones? And maybe that is the case. Maybe

1922
01:58:38,680 --> 01:58:42,840
Speaker 1: the electorate has given up that politicians can be good people.

1923
01:58:44,600 --> 01:58:49,480
Speaker 1: But unfortunately, right now I do think the I think

1924
01:58:49,560 --> 01:58:51,640
Speaker 1: good people are afraid to run for office. And I

1925
01:58:51,800 --> 01:58:58,280
Speaker 1: think there is a sense that if you're morally ambiguous

1926
01:58:58,360 --> 01:59:03,280
Speaker 1: person but you're looking for legitimacy in society, holding office

1927
01:59:03,280 --> 01:59:06,320
Speaker 1: suddenly gives you legitimacy. You know. It brings up a

1928
01:59:06,400 --> 01:59:08,240
Speaker 1: quote I've been meaning to share with you guys, but

1929
01:59:08,320 --> 01:59:12,000
Speaker 1: I just haven't had the right I just haven't had

1930
01:59:12,040 --> 01:59:13,720
Speaker 1: the right moment to bring it up. But I'm going

1931
01:59:13,760 --> 01:59:16,680
Speaker 1: to go find the quote for you. So Madison Cawthorne,

1932
01:59:16,840 --> 01:59:21,440
Speaker 1: the kid who was sort of who when he came

1933
01:59:21,480 --> 01:59:24,600
Speaker 1: to Congress sort of was just he admitted the only

1934
01:59:24,600 --> 01:59:26,760
Speaker 1: staff he wanted to hire work communication staff. He didn't

1935
01:59:26,800 --> 01:59:29,600
Speaker 1: really see the job as representing his constituents. He saw

1936
01:59:29,680 --> 01:59:33,880
Speaker 1: it as just messaging and trolling. He offended so many

1937
01:59:33,960 --> 01:59:37,040
Speaker 1: Republicans that they recruited a candidate to primary m get

1938
01:59:37,120 --> 01:59:40,440
Speaker 1: him out of office. And he was a one term

1939
01:59:40,480 --> 01:59:43,320
Speaker 1: wonder Well, now he has shown up in Florida and

1940
01:59:43,360 --> 01:59:45,240
Speaker 1: he wants to run for the open seat that Byron

1941
01:59:45,280 --> 01:59:50,600
Speaker 1: Donald's is vacating to run for governor. Well, he's not

1942
01:59:50,760 --> 01:59:55,120
Speaker 1: the only former member of Congress running in that district

1943
01:59:55,800 --> 02:00:00,320
Speaker 1: for Byron Donalds. There's another disgraced former member of Congress

1944
02:00:00,800 --> 02:00:03,560
Speaker 1: that's also running in that race. It is Chris Collins.

1945
02:00:04,120 --> 02:00:05,880
Speaker 1: And if you're wondering who Chris Collins is, he was

1946
02:00:05,960 --> 02:00:09,760
Speaker 1: a Republican Member of Congress from the from Western New York,

1947
02:00:09,840 --> 02:00:15,240
Speaker 1: representing the Buffalo area and he was notable at first.

1948
02:00:15,320 --> 02:00:16,520
Speaker 1: I mean I could tell you how he got my

1949
02:00:16,720 --> 02:00:18,680
Speaker 1: radar and first time I interviewed me. He was the

1950
02:00:18,800 --> 02:00:21,080
Speaker 1: only member of congres. He's the first member of the

1951
02:00:21,160 --> 02:00:24,520
Speaker 1: House of Representative, the first House Republican to officially endorse

1952
02:00:24,560 --> 02:00:28,160
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. And for the longest time, he was the

1953
02:00:28,400 --> 02:00:32,680
Speaker 1: only one that endorsed Donald Trump. I mean, it was

1954
02:00:33,720 --> 02:00:37,440
Speaker 1: it was, it was something else, and he was the

1955
02:00:37,480 --> 02:00:39,560
Speaker 1: only one, and he was sort of he was kind

1956
02:00:39,600 --> 02:00:43,200
Speaker 1: of I enjoyed interviewing him, and in fact, I'm going

1957
02:00:43,280 --> 02:00:46,000
Speaker 1: to try to book him for the podcast because this

1958
02:00:46,200 --> 02:00:48,840
Speaker 1: quote really stood out to me, and I'll get to

1959
02:00:48,920 --> 02:00:50,800
Speaker 1: it in a minute, but it sort of gets it

1960
02:00:50,880 --> 02:00:54,440
Speaker 1: to what I fear elected office has become for too

1961
02:00:54,520 --> 02:00:59,680
Speaker 1: many character challenged people, and perhaps describing Chris Collins this

1962
02:00:59,760 --> 02:01:03,960
Speaker 1: way will make him not want to come on. But

1963
02:01:04,280 --> 02:01:06,280
Speaker 1: one of the things I found interesting about him is

1964
02:01:06,320 --> 02:01:09,280
Speaker 1: that he seemed to be comfortable in his own skin,

1965
02:01:09,400 --> 02:01:11,680
Speaker 1: willing to sort of take any question and sometimes say

1966
02:01:11,800 --> 02:01:14,280
Speaker 1: things out loud that you're shocked that he would say,

1967
02:01:14,920 --> 02:01:18,280
Speaker 1: which brings me to this quote. So he's among again.

1968
02:01:18,360 --> 02:01:22,640
Speaker 1: Madison Cawthorne is running in this race. So's Chris Collins, right,

1969
02:01:22,760 --> 02:01:24,520
Speaker 1: the former New Yorker you had to resign in twenty

1970
02:01:24,600 --> 02:01:29,360
Speaker 1: nineteen after he pled guilty to some insider trading. Collins,

1971
02:01:29,400 --> 02:01:34,000
Speaker 1: who's now seventy five, he suggested that he wasn't coming

1972
02:01:34,080 --> 02:01:37,520
Speaker 1: out of involuntary retirement purely because of his desire to

1973
02:01:37,680 --> 02:01:40,800
Speaker 1: serve his new community in Southwest Florida. Here's what he

1974
02:01:40,960 --> 02:01:44,640
Speaker 1: said to a podcast in August. He said, quote, if

1975
02:01:44,680 --> 02:01:47,640
Speaker 1: I then retire as a congressman from Florida nineteen and

1976
02:01:47,720 --> 02:01:50,919
Speaker 1: Marco Island in Naples. I think I would be welcomed

1977
02:01:51,000 --> 02:01:53,120
Speaker 1: then to serve on some of the you know, the

1978
02:01:53,240 --> 02:01:56,480
Speaker 1: not for profit boards and hospital boards and being invited

1979
02:01:56,560 --> 02:01:59,880
Speaker 1: to the you know, fundraisers in galas and being welcome.

1980
02:02:00,840 --> 02:02:03,360
Speaker 1: He said, that would be a great retirement because right

1981
02:02:03,480 --> 02:02:05,960
Speaker 1: now it's kind of lonely. He goes, you know, I'm

1982
02:02:06,000 --> 02:02:08,440
Speaker 1: not invited to any of those things, because all I

1983
02:02:08,560 --> 02:02:12,360
Speaker 1: am is, you know, the former congressman who resigned in disgrace,

1984
02:02:12,600 --> 02:02:17,200
Speaker 1: convicted felon was This is Chris Collins in a nutshell.

1985
02:02:17,880 --> 02:02:23,400
Speaker 1: He will he speaks some blunt truths. He's self aware

1986
02:02:23,440 --> 02:02:26,000
Speaker 1: and not self aware, sort of all at the same time.

1987
02:02:26,200 --> 02:02:29,920
Speaker 1: Right says the quiet part out loud that the only

1988
02:02:30,040 --> 02:02:31,920
Speaker 1: reason he wants to run if he could just win

1989
02:02:31,960 --> 02:02:35,840
Speaker 1: a term. Then suddenly he's invited to all the local

1990
02:02:35,920 --> 02:02:38,160
Speaker 1: events and he gets to, I guess, sit on the

1991
02:02:38,240 --> 02:02:41,280
Speaker 1: dais rather than I'm sure he could be invited to

1992
02:02:41,320 --> 02:02:45,040
Speaker 1: these events, but he doesn't want to beg to be there,

1993
02:02:45,120 --> 02:02:49,120
Speaker 1: I guess. Anyway, I use this as an example to

1994
02:02:49,200 --> 02:02:51,160
Speaker 1: sort of respond to your question on that, because that

1995
02:02:51,360 --> 02:02:55,560
Speaker 1: is my concern, is that politics is turned into this

1996
02:02:55,720 --> 02:02:58,920
Speaker 1: place where people rehab bad images because we now think

1997
02:02:59,440 --> 02:03:03,520
Speaker 1: politicians are kind of you know that we assume a

1998
02:03:03,600 --> 02:03:06,440
Speaker 1: politician is slimy. You know, you're guilty of being slimy

1999
02:03:06,480 --> 02:03:10,480
Speaker 1: until you prove that you're not. And that's sad, right.

2000
02:03:10,920 --> 02:03:15,680
Speaker 1: I got into this. I went to Washington because, man,

2001
02:03:16,240 --> 02:03:18,120
Speaker 1: I looked up to these people. And it's true, the

2002
02:03:18,200 --> 02:03:20,520
Speaker 1: more you get to know them, the more you realize

2003
02:03:21,640 --> 02:03:23,640
Speaker 1: not all of them are are worth looking up to.

2004
02:03:25,040 --> 02:03:27,440
Speaker 1: But there was a time more of them were. And

2005
02:03:27,520 --> 02:03:29,560
Speaker 1: it's a bummer. We're not there yet. All right, let

2006
02:03:29,560 --> 02:03:31,040
Speaker 1: me do one more question here and I'll do my

2007
02:03:31,240 --> 02:03:33,880
Speaker 1: little college football preview for you. Good evening. Loving the

2008
02:03:33,960 --> 02:03:36,920
Speaker 1: Check podcast find myself anxiously awaiting the next installment every

2009
02:03:36,960 --> 02:03:39,240
Speaker 1: other morning during the week. I appreciate that my question

2010
02:03:40,280 --> 02:03:43,960
Speaker 1: you recently cited congressional carve outs for pay during government shutdowns,

2011
02:03:43,960 --> 02:03:45,800
Speaker 1: such as military pay and solid security. I was listening

2012
02:03:45,840 --> 02:03:48,280
Speaker 1: to someone on Boston Public Radio a few days ago,

2013
02:03:48,320 --> 02:03:51,200
Speaker 1: where you are a frequent guest, discussed military pay would

2014
02:03:51,200 --> 02:03:53,760
Speaker 1: cease during the shutdown, So I'm confused. Thanks for a

2015
02:03:53,840 --> 02:03:56,560
Speaker 1: fantastic source of information critical of both sides of the aisle.

2016
02:03:57,800 --> 02:04:01,240
Speaker 1: The pay is guaranteed. The pay can be delayed, but

2017
02:04:01,360 --> 02:04:05,120
Speaker 1: it's guaranteed. And the military pay is was always guaranteed

2018
02:04:05,160 --> 02:04:07,240
Speaker 1: as a as a carve out, and then they have

2019
02:04:07,400 --> 02:04:10,000
Speaker 1: to a lot of times. Most of the times when

2020
02:04:10,000 --> 02:04:16,400
Speaker 1: they've done these shorts shutdowns, they do pass a bipartisan

2021
02:04:16,440 --> 02:04:18,280
Speaker 1: bill that says, hey, we're gonna go ahead and let

2022
02:04:18,360 --> 02:04:23,040
Speaker 1: military pay happen on time. And that was frequent when

2023
02:04:23,040 --> 02:04:26,480
Speaker 1: we always had some you know, some members of the

2024
02:04:26,520 --> 02:04:29,000
Speaker 1: military in a in a in a hot zone or

2025
02:04:29,040 --> 02:04:33,760
Speaker 1: a war zone, notably for whatever reason, they didn't you

2026
02:04:33,840 --> 02:04:36,560
Speaker 1: know Democrats. In fact, that's one of the ways that

2027
02:04:36,680 --> 02:04:39,600
Speaker 1: Democrats are now trying to go to Mike Johnson back

2028
02:04:39,800 --> 02:04:43,400
Speaker 1: to bringing the House back this this this week, is

2029
02:04:43,480 --> 02:04:46,720
Speaker 1: to just simply vote on that so that there's no

2030
02:04:47,200 --> 02:04:51,200
Speaker 1: interruption in their pay. But there but the carve out.

2031
02:04:51,240 --> 02:04:56,040
Speaker 1: They're guaranteed their pay and in the case of active

2032
02:04:56,120 --> 02:04:58,200
Speaker 1: duty military, you know, they're housing. The don't have to

2033
02:04:58,200 --> 02:05:00,160
Speaker 1: worry about that. So that's why it's it's let that

2034
02:05:00,640 --> 02:05:03,480
Speaker 1: carve out. If they weren't guaranteed their pay, I think

2035
02:05:03,480 --> 02:05:05,800
Speaker 1: you'd have a different situation. So where I may have

2036
02:05:05,920 --> 02:05:10,040
Speaker 1: confused you was I may have indicated that they were

2037
02:05:10,800 --> 02:05:15,000
Speaker 1: they were getting it without interruption, because they always do,

2038
02:05:15,920 --> 02:05:20,320
Speaker 1: but they hadn't. Actually each time they had to individually

2039
02:05:20,440 --> 02:05:23,160
Speaker 1: vote to make sure it was done without an interruption,

2040
02:05:23,320 --> 02:05:26,360
Speaker 1: and they didn't do that for this time, which was unusual.

2041
02:05:26,640 --> 02:05:30,760
Speaker 1: But there is no but the law guarantees that back

2042
02:05:30,840 --> 02:05:32,720
Speaker 1: pay for it's what the law guarantees the back pay

2043
02:05:32,760 --> 02:05:35,320
Speaker 1: now of all federal workers. That was a separate law

2044
02:05:35,360 --> 02:05:38,840
Speaker 1: that was passed in twenty nineteen that Donald Trump signed

2045
02:05:38,840 --> 02:05:41,000
Speaker 1: in the law and now that his current budget director

2046
02:05:41,080 --> 02:05:45,640
Speaker 1: is trying to claim does not abide. But anyway, apologies

2047
02:05:45,680 --> 02:05:50,120
Speaker 1: for confusing you on that, but that that's where that goes,

2048
02:05:50,520 --> 02:05:54,440
Speaker 1: all right. So with that, I am this is my

2049
02:05:54,560 --> 02:05:57,400
Speaker 1: first weekend and four weekends and I'm not traveling to

2050
02:05:57,600 --> 02:06:01,080
Speaker 1: see a football game. I will be honest, as a

2051
02:06:04,320 --> 02:06:08,200
Speaker 1: middling aged man, I am getting exhausted for mayor travel.

2052
02:06:08,320 --> 02:06:12,160
Speaker 1: So maybe I needed a weekend off from traveling to football.

2053
02:06:12,200 --> 02:06:14,760
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean we don't have a great lineup

2054
02:06:14,800 --> 02:06:20,640
Speaker 1: of games this week. Look the most the one I'm

2055
02:06:20,680 --> 02:06:23,200
Speaker 1: most curious about, and I think the one that will

2056
02:06:23,240 --> 02:06:26,560
Speaker 1: be more determinative to me. You know, there's two big

2057
02:06:26,640 --> 02:06:28,840
Speaker 1: ones this week and they're both in the Big ten. Right,

2058
02:06:28,880 --> 02:06:33,960
Speaker 1: you have Indiana at Oregon. Do you fully believe in Indiana?

2059
02:06:34,200 --> 02:06:36,960
Speaker 1: And how good is Oregon? Right? Do we look at

2060
02:06:37,000 --> 02:06:39,680
Speaker 1: the Penn State loss to UCLA and start to question

2061
02:06:39,840 --> 02:06:44,400
Speaker 1: whether is was that just Penn State flat spot or

2062
02:06:44,480 --> 02:06:47,760
Speaker 1: is Penn State really just not that good without Tyler Warren? Right?

2063
02:06:47,920 --> 02:06:50,240
Speaker 1: And I think we're starting to come to the conclusion

2064
02:06:50,280 --> 02:06:53,600
Speaker 1: that they had a special, special talent in Tyler Warren.

2065
02:06:53,760 --> 02:06:55,360
Speaker 1: How good was he? He's so good He's made the

2066
02:06:55,480 --> 02:06:57,840
Speaker 1: Colts a playoff team right, all on his own. He's

2067
02:06:57,880 --> 02:07:02,440
Speaker 1: made Daniel Jones look like an MVP candidate. So shame

2068
02:07:02,520 --> 02:07:06,200
Speaker 1: on all of us for not realizing how maybe that

2069
02:07:06,400 --> 02:07:08,400
Speaker 1: dude should have been invited to New York at least

2070
02:07:08,440 --> 02:07:10,800
Speaker 1: to be a heusband finalist on that front. And then

2071
02:07:10,840 --> 02:07:13,880
Speaker 1: the other interesting game is Ohio State going to champagne

2072
02:07:14,520 --> 02:07:19,360
Speaker 1: in Illinois? Who is Illinois? Are they the team that

2073
02:07:19,440 --> 02:07:22,240
Speaker 1: beat USC or the team that got their clocks cleaned

2074
02:07:22,280 --> 02:07:27,880
Speaker 1: in Bloomington by Indiana? They're tough at home. Ohio State

2075
02:07:28,080 --> 02:07:31,560
Speaker 1: does appear to be getting better every week. Justin saying,

2076
02:07:32,680 --> 02:07:35,560
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I'm not going to get over that punditry,

2077
02:07:35,680 --> 02:07:38,520
Speaker 1: that that ability to do so many puns with the

2078
02:07:38,880 --> 02:07:43,080
Speaker 1: quarterback of Ohio State. We're all just saying that Justin

2079
02:07:43,200 --> 02:07:48,160
Speaker 1: saying is getting better every week. I'm not, by the way,

2080
02:07:48,280 --> 02:07:50,560
Speaker 1: I'm not somebody who will bet on individual players. I

2081
02:07:51,200 --> 02:07:53,520
Speaker 1: accept the premise that I think player props are very

2082
02:07:53,560 --> 02:07:59,760
Speaker 1: corruptible when it comes to when it comes to gambling,

2083
02:08:00,360 --> 02:08:02,240
Speaker 1: and in fact, in the state of Virginia, they don't

2084
02:08:02,280 --> 02:08:05,840
Speaker 1: even allow you to bet on awards. You can't bet

2085
02:08:05,920 --> 02:08:07,600
Speaker 1: on the Heisman in Virginia. I have to go across

2086
02:08:07,640 --> 02:08:09,120
Speaker 1: the river to DC if I wanted to do that.

2087
02:08:09,920 --> 02:08:12,840
Speaker 1: But if I were taking a long shot Heisman pick

2088
02:08:12,960 --> 02:08:15,640
Speaker 1: right now, Justin saying would be a pretty good bye

2089
02:08:15,760 --> 02:08:18,760
Speaker 1: at this point, because you know the way the Heisman

2090
02:08:18,960 --> 02:08:22,040
Speaker 1: stuff works, it's all recency bias. And as much as

2091
02:08:22,120 --> 02:08:24,480
Speaker 1: I think Reuben Bain and Miami, or Carson Beck and

2092
02:08:24,560 --> 02:08:30,320
Speaker 1: Miami both deserve consideration, their most high profile games are

2093
02:08:30,360 --> 02:08:34,760
Speaker 1: now over and Ohio State has a lot more high

2094
02:08:34,800 --> 02:08:38,080
Speaker 1: profile games to come, and of course that you know

2095
02:08:38,200 --> 02:08:40,720
Speaker 1: the whole recency bias, right, He's going to be having

2096
02:08:40,760 --> 02:08:42,960
Speaker 1: that Michigan game, you know, not very far from the

2097
02:08:43,320 --> 02:08:46,720
Speaker 1: voting itself. Perhaps Ohio State Oregon in the Big Ten

2098
02:08:46,840 --> 02:08:52,440
Speaker 1: Conference final itself is another stage for him. Anyway, It's

2099
02:08:52,720 --> 02:08:56,120
Speaker 1: it's interesting how good is he? How good is Illinois

2100
02:08:56,160 --> 02:08:59,680
Speaker 1: at slowing this game down in order to give themselves

2101
02:08:59,720 --> 02:09:02,280
Speaker 1: a check. They can't afford to trade scores with Ohio State,

2102
02:09:02,400 --> 02:09:05,760
Speaker 1: So I'm intrigued by that game. I don't know if

2103
02:09:05,760 --> 02:09:09,480
Speaker 1: I buy into Illinois, And in fact, their victory over

2104
02:09:09,600 --> 02:09:12,480
Speaker 1: USC makes me doubt USC more than it does make

2105
02:09:12,560 --> 02:09:17,600
Speaker 1: me more confident in Illinois. And then there's Indiana in

2106
02:09:17,720 --> 02:09:21,560
Speaker 1: Oregon right the other game, So it all depends on

2107
02:09:21,640 --> 02:09:23,600
Speaker 1: how much of a juggernaut you think Illinois. I think

2108
02:09:23,600 --> 02:09:25,400
Speaker 1: it's clear Indiana is better this year than they were

2109
02:09:25,480 --> 02:09:29,760
Speaker 1: last year. But does that mean they're they're they're a

2110
02:09:29,880 --> 02:09:33,040
Speaker 1: contender for the whole thing or not? If they can

2111
02:09:33,440 --> 02:09:35,400
Speaker 1: put up a once, you know, even lose just by

2112
02:09:35,400 --> 02:09:37,440
Speaker 1: one score in Eugene, I think it's fair to say,

2113
02:09:37,840 --> 02:09:40,160
Speaker 1: because that is one tough place to play, I think

2114
02:09:40,200 --> 02:09:44,240
Speaker 1: it's fair to say they are contenders. I can't believe

2115
02:09:44,280 --> 02:09:46,640
Speaker 1: I'm not that. The first game out of my mouth

2116
02:09:46,760 --> 02:09:51,080
Speaker 1: isn't about Texas Oklahoma. Here we have the Red River shootout, rivalry,

2117
02:09:51,120 --> 02:09:56,160
Speaker 1: whatever we're supposed to call it. Now, it does feel

2118
02:09:56,200 --> 02:10:00,720
Speaker 1: as if this is a This is become a very

2119
02:10:00,800 --> 02:10:06,320
Speaker 1: important game for Arch Manning's reputation, fairly or unfairly. I

2120
02:10:06,440 --> 02:10:10,560
Speaker 1: do think it's worth reminding people that Arch's grandfather, Archie,

2121
02:10:11,000 --> 02:10:13,120
Speaker 1: was the first one to say he's not turning pro

2122
02:10:13,280 --> 02:10:16,880
Speaker 1: in twenty six. Perhaps he knew his grandson needed more

2123
02:10:16,960 --> 02:10:20,040
Speaker 1: time to sort of in the football factory to get better.

2124
02:10:22,520 --> 02:10:25,200
Speaker 1: Look the hype machine. It's not as if the Manning

2125
02:10:25,240 --> 02:10:27,720
Speaker 1: family didn't contribute to the hype machine. And you know,

2126
02:10:27,880 --> 02:10:30,280
Speaker 1: it is what it is. Sometimes you can't do anything

2127
02:10:30,320 --> 02:10:33,760
Speaker 1: about it. You know, if he were Arch Smith, he

2128
02:10:33,800 --> 02:10:36,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't be He wouldn't have gotten the same amount of hype,

2129
02:10:36,200 --> 02:10:38,520
Speaker 1: nor would he be getting the same amount of criticism.

2130
02:10:44,200 --> 02:10:47,520
Speaker 1: But the real question is whether John Matteer, Oklahoma starting quarterback,

2131
02:10:47,640 --> 02:10:49,840
Speaker 1: is really going to try to play here in this game.

2132
02:10:50,160 --> 02:10:54,880
Speaker 1: Except look, Oklahoma are are they legit contenders for the

2133
02:10:54,960 --> 02:10:58,600
Speaker 1: whole thing? They beat Texas without matir as a as

2134
02:10:58,640 --> 02:11:02,280
Speaker 1: a relevant force. That's a big deal and that shouldn't

2135
02:11:02,280 --> 02:11:06,520
Speaker 1: be ignored. So that's probably the third most interesting game

2136
02:11:07,560 --> 02:11:10,800
Speaker 1: for me on the docket. Then After that, everything else

2137
02:11:10,960 --> 02:11:14,400
Speaker 1: is only interesting depending on how much money you plan

2138
02:11:14,480 --> 02:11:16,880
Speaker 1: on putting down there. I mean, Georgia Auburn, I think

2139
02:11:16,920 --> 02:11:19,360
Speaker 1: we thought that would be a big deal game. I

2140
02:11:19,600 --> 02:11:24,360
Speaker 1: assume Georgia wins that with a little bit of put

2141
02:11:24,400 --> 02:11:28,160
Speaker 1: it this way, I I will be surprised if that's

2142
02:11:28,200 --> 02:11:30,320
Speaker 1: a if that's a close game in the fourth quarter,

2143
02:11:30,440 --> 02:11:33,840
Speaker 1: and if it is, then maybe Georgia isn't a top

2144
02:11:33,920 --> 02:11:35,960
Speaker 1: ten team this year. And by the way, no shame

2145
02:11:36,040 --> 02:11:38,560
Speaker 1: in that. My goodness, look at how many people they've

2146
02:11:38,640 --> 02:11:41,280
Speaker 1: sent to the pros. At some point. I'm not saying

2147
02:11:41,280 --> 02:11:44,200
Speaker 1: the cupboard is empty, but their depth at some point

2148
02:11:44,400 --> 02:11:46,680
Speaker 1: is going to catch up with them. And in this environment,

2149
02:11:46,720 --> 02:11:48,800
Speaker 1: you don't get to stockball talent the way you used

2150
02:11:48,800 --> 02:11:52,280
Speaker 1: to be able to stockpilot. So that's a little bit

2151
02:11:52,320 --> 02:11:54,600
Speaker 1: of a we'll learn a little something there, depending on

2152
02:11:54,680 --> 02:11:59,720
Speaker 1: the on the spread of that game and if baseball's

2153
02:11:59,720 --> 02:12:02,800
Speaker 1: not doing it for you. That Friday night South Florida

2154
02:12:02,880 --> 02:12:05,960
Speaker 1: North Texas game, it's a big deal to South Florida

2155
02:12:05,960 --> 02:12:09,040
Speaker 1: if they want to be the group of five representative

2156
02:12:09,080 --> 02:12:11,040
Speaker 1: in the playoff. I think it's gonna be a great game.

2157
02:12:11,040 --> 02:12:13,160
Speaker 1: They're going on the road they got to win that game.

2158
02:12:14,320 --> 02:12:17,760
Speaker 1: And as a Floridian and as a team that the

2159
02:12:17,880 --> 02:12:21,160
Speaker 1: Hurricanes have defeated, I want to see everybody that Miami

2160
02:12:21,200 --> 02:12:24,720
Speaker 1: beat do well. So let's go Bulls. Let's go see

2161
02:12:24,760 --> 02:12:27,200
Speaker 1: if you can go to the other big game in

2162
02:12:27,960 --> 02:12:32,120
Speaker 1: North Texas this weekend and give them a good preview.

2163
02:12:32,280 --> 02:12:35,000
Speaker 1: Should be an entertaining game. If you're just looking for

2164
02:12:35,080 --> 02:12:38,440
Speaker 1: some entertaining football, North Texas and South Florida is one

2165
02:12:38,680 --> 02:12:40,920
Speaker 1: that will be worthy of your time. All right, With that,

2166
02:12:41,280 --> 02:12:44,200
Speaker 1: I have a relaxing weekend as my Hurricanes have another bye.

2167
02:12:44,200 --> 02:12:46,120
Speaker 1: We've get a bye week before Florida State bye. I

2168
02:12:46,160 --> 02:12:50,120
Speaker 1: have to tell you the scheduling this year for Miami

2169
02:12:50,200 --> 02:12:53,360
Speaker 1: has been fantastic, which means, let's not screw this season up.

2170
02:12:53,760 --> 02:12:55,840
Speaker 1: We are not going to have where we get a

2171
02:12:55,880 --> 02:12:58,160
Speaker 1: buye before Florida State and then a bye to recover

2172
02:12:58,640 --> 02:13:01,240
Speaker 1: from Florida State before going into this Friday night game

2173
02:13:01,600 --> 02:13:05,040
Speaker 1: that we have coming up next week with the always

2174
02:13:05,160 --> 02:13:10,400
Speaker 1: dangerous Louisville Cardinals. So with that, I'll see in about

2175
02:13:10,600 --> 02:13:14,600
Speaker 1: ninety six hours enjoy what is this is? Right now?

2176
02:13:14,680 --> 02:13:20,400
Speaker 1: We are at peak sports fandom. They're all coming together NHL,

2177
02:13:21,000 --> 02:13:27,600
Speaker 1: NBA regular seasons begin, baseball playoffs, college football, NFL. It

2178
02:13:27,840 --> 02:13:31,760
Speaker 1: is a smorgasboard, so enjoy it while it's here. Enjoy

2179
02:13:31,880 --> 02:13:34,960
Speaker 1: this October weekend, and with that I'll see in my

2180
02:13:35,040 --> 02:13:35,200
Speaker 1: name