Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
Speaker 2: my name is Noela.
Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our
Speaker 3: super producer Alexis code named Doc Holliday Jackson. Most importantly,
Speaker 3: you are you. You are here that makes this the
Speaker 3: stuff they don't want you to know. If you're hearing
Speaker 3: this the evening it comes out, then we wish you
Speaker 3: a happy June twentieth, twenty twenty four. We have so
Speaker 3: much to get to from our favorite part of the show, you,
Speaker 3: specifically you. We're gonna hear about some strange science. We're
Speaker 3: gonna get a couple of inside perspectives on organizations that
Speaker 3: prefer not to be cults, as well as allegations of
Speaker 3: price fixing. We might even get to some good pe
Speaker 3: pew humor, some pew pew poop humer at the end.
Speaker 3: But for now, I just want to check in with
Speaker 3: you guys. How's your week?
Speaker 4: Ben?
Speaker 5: Not bad, little hectic on the family front, but I
Speaker 5: can't complain and finally feel a little bit caught.
Speaker 4: Up after my international trip.
Speaker 5: I was lagging there and had a little bit of
Speaker 5: travel crowd and so I feel feeling okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had a pet pass recently, so it's been
Speaker 2: a little rocky when it comes to that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: I think everybody out there has either experienced that or
Speaker 2: can relate in some way. But you know, hug your
Speaker 2: animals this week.
Speaker 3: I agree, send us photographs.
Speaker 2: Ben Well, how was how was your week? Man?
Speaker 3: A lot of plot twist. We'll show it works out.
Speaker 4: All right, We're back for this evenings.
Speaker 5: First listener mail, we have a response from a listener
Speaker 5: an insider perspective on the Courtland raid. The company that
Speaker 5: we discussed in a previous listener mail a giant property
Speaker 5: management or I guess I don't know, madam, is your story?
Speaker 5: How would you classify this company now that they're not management?
Speaker 4: They actually own all of these properties and lease them out,
Speaker 4: you know, to renters.
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, they are, and I'm going to use the
Speaker 2: term landlords indeed. Yeah, and they own a craft own
Speaker 2: of properties in Atlanta as well as many other cities
Speaker 2: across the United States. But it wasn't really about Courtland, right,
Speaker 2: it was about software.
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, thank you, and that is exactly what this
Speaker 5: email is responding to from an insider perspective.
Speaker 4: This comes from Niko.
Speaker 5: By the way, gents, I love your show and I've
Speaker 5: been a long time fan. I was listening to the
Speaker 5: recent episode where you touched on rent pricing software and
Speaker 5: I would love to give you, guys about a perspective
Speaker 5: on what is actually going on behind the curtain and
Speaker 5: how that software works.
Speaker 4: One.
Speaker 5: This rental pricing software is ubiquitous throughout the industry and
Speaker 5: has existed for at least the last fifteen years.
Speaker 4: Two.
Speaker 5: This software is imperfect, and it does actually recommend reducing
Speaker 5: rents or offering a leasing incentive based on the current
Speaker 5: occupancy of the property and recent trends, mostly at your
Speaker 5: own property versus the broader market. It even goes completely
Speaker 5: haywire at times and will tank your market rents by
Speaker 5: twenty percent if you don't set.
Speaker 4: Proper ceilings and floors. Three.
Speaker 5: This type of increase in rents would happen even in
Speaker 5: a world without this software. The reality is that it
Speaker 5: just occurs faster. Similar to the hotel industry, prices change
Speaker 5: daily me interjecting here probably similar to the way it
Speaker 5: happens with plane tickets.
Speaker 4: Four.
Speaker 5: I would be absolutely shocked if anything came from this raid.
Speaker 5: This type of software exists across almost every industry, and
Speaker 5: I think at the time we were talking about it,
Speaker 5: I did mention that reminded me of the type of
Speaker 5: shipping and receiving logistical systems that are in place for
Speaker 5: freight brokerage.
Speaker 4: Right back to Nico. Five.
Speaker 5: Cortland isn't even close to the company that anyone should
Speaker 5: be worried about, compared to groups like Graystar, who manage
Speaker 5: hundreds of thousands of apartments across the country, and they
Speaker 5: even have their own proprietary software compared to real page
Speaker 5: so that nobody could actually get their head under the hood.
Speaker 5: If this isn't legal, how in the hell is it
Speaker 5: legal for automated high frequency trading to occur where a
Speaker 5: computer can buy a stock faster than I can and
Speaker 5: then sell it to me at a fractional increase. It
Speaker 5: is completely valid that we do not all invest in
Speaker 5: public markets, but we all do need shelter and as
Speaker 5: a fundamental need in Maslow's hierarchy. The reality is that
Speaker 5: Atlanta has been an absolute boom town, both commercially and
Speaker 5: for new residents over the last fifteen plus years, and
Speaker 5: there has never truly been a time where vacancy is
Speaker 5: a seeded more than seven or eight percent. You might
Speaker 5: be surprised to learn that, despite the fact that Georgia
Speaker 5: has a lower median home price than other large coastal
Speaker 5: cities or growing cities like Denver or Austin, you would
Speaker 5: need to make more than sixty percent than you do
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty in order to afford the same median
Speaker 5: price home. This increase is one of the highest in
Speaker 5: the nation, more than other states like Colorado fifty percent,
Speaker 5: New York thirty three percent, Florida fifty seven percent, in
Speaker 5: California forty eight percent. And then they link out to
Speaker 5: an article on costar dot com nearly half of US
Speaker 5: states require six figure salary for typical home. Some good
Speaker 5: information and some infographics there. Anyways, I absolutely love what
Speaker 5: you guys are producing. This is the one time that
Speaker 5: I actually had some insight on any podcast. Really be
Speaker 5: well and godspeed regards Niko, And then you know, and
Speaker 5: these kinds of converse that these kinds of points did
Speaker 5: come up with the whole shipping situation as well, you know,
Speaker 5: the freight brokerage and stuff like, you know, is it
Speaker 5: about fine tuning a system for you know, like I
Speaker 5: guess what's sort of looking for most efficient you know
Speaker 5: routes and maximizing you know, yield and all of that
Speaker 5: good stuff. I really like this listener's point of comparing
Speaker 5: it to automated stock brokerage you know, software and platforms
Speaker 5: and things like that. So I do think we were
Speaker 5: not heavy handed and saying that this was entirely some
Speaker 5: sort of across the industry fraudulent activity or the very
Speaker 5: nature of this software is inherently bad. But it does
Speaker 5: show that we rely quite heavily on these sorts of
Speaker 5: systems and that there can be room in really complex arrangements.
Speaker 5: And especially I love the point that they made about
Speaker 5: the proprietary software for malfeasance to kind of take place,
Speaker 5: as they mentioned, under the hood or behind the curtain.
Speaker 5: So I don't know, Matt, I'd love to throw to
Speaker 5: you first, since this was, you know, the story that
Speaker 5: you brought. Is there anything in this that spoke to
Speaker 5: you or that kind of pinged a bell for you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of it did, just knowing that there
Speaker 2: are multiple types of this software or versions of this
Speaker 2: type of software, let's say, out there, that are being
Speaker 2: used by a bunch of different people, a bunch of
Speaker 2: different groups, that some of it's proprietary in a way
Speaker 2: that Real Page is not. I didn't know this when
Speaker 2: we first were talking about it, but Real Page has
Speaker 2: been talked about for quite a while, for many years
Speaker 2: as a kind of a weird thing that isn't working
Speaker 2: out so great for everybody. It was working out great
Speaker 2: for the companies that own the land, right, but you know,
Speaker 2: for the rest of us, it's like, I don't know, bullys.
Speaker 2: I just reading an article from pro Publica from twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two in October, and the title is rent going
Speaker 2: up One company's algorithm could be why, and it has
Speaker 2: a lot to do. It just talks about real Page,
Speaker 2: and some of this reporting and some of the worries
Speaker 2: back then are why there is this major anti trust
Speaker 2: thing going on right now, why Cortland was rated, why
Speaker 2: we're even talking about it. But maybe this isn't really
Speaker 2: the thing we need to be focused on. Maybe it's
Speaker 2: a much smaller player. Real Page is a much smaller
Speaker 2: player in an ecosystem of terrifying software.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Nico, thank you so much for taking the
Speaker 3: time for this beautifully written correspondence and for being our
Speaker 3: boots on the ground, as it were. Would be really
Speaker 3: interested to hear your thoughts about someone we mentioned in
Speaker 3: that conversation, Aj Stegmann, the chess prodigy who single handedly
Speaker 3: changed the face of several real estate markets through his
Speaker 3: software price optimization. That is similar to this, And I
Speaker 3: think you make I love a fact dense report here,
Speaker 3: and I think you do such a wonderful job kicking
Speaker 3: the statistics, talking about the ways in which each city
Speaker 3: may be unique but similar enough to have comparisons. And
Speaker 3: I especially appreciate the high frequency trading aspect there too,
Speaker 3: or high speed trading whatever they call it on Wall Street.
Speaker 3: There is this there is this inevitability to it. And
Speaker 3: this one stayed with me for a while, even back
Speaker 3: when we were talking about the chess prodigy a few
Speaker 3: years ago. I would argue, this kind of stuff because
Speaker 3: of the technology and legislative relationship, it is inevitable. It
Speaker 3: answers a question that the land owning class once answered well.
Speaker 5: And it also speaks to the notion that just because
Speaker 5: something's sketchy doesn't mean it's illegal. Just because something's in
Speaker 5: bad taste doesn't mean it's against the law. And it's
Speaker 5: because it affects, you know, regular people negatively.
Speaker 4: Does not mean that there are laws against.
Speaker 3: It, like making and selling Honda odyssees exactly.
Speaker 2: That's exactly that my sister drives one. And it's actually
Speaker 2: kind of I wish are.
Speaker 3: The best cup holders.
Speaker 2: They have so many coup holders for their cup holders.
Speaker 2: I think it's also a moral thing, and like you're
Speaker 2: talking about old. This Pro Publica article has a quote
Speaker 2: from a real page executive named Andrew Bowen, and this, this,
Speaker 2: I think speaks to what the software does and why
Speaker 2: it's scary. Uh. He says, as a property manager, very
Speaker 2: few of us would be willing to actually raise rents
Speaker 2: double digits within a single month by doing it manually
Speaker 2: the computer. Yes, it's not me, guys, it's not us.
Speaker 2: It's this.
Speaker 4: We have this. It's the software.
Speaker 3: Similar to the ticket like, what is ticketmaster's real job?
Speaker 4: He has to be the bad guy?
Speaker 3: And I remember that Pro Publica article. Maybe even I'm
Speaker 3: not sure, but just taking a second here just to
Speaker 3: quickly interject and say, Pro Publica is the business pro
Speaker 3: Pa is so very good. And if you are looking
Speaker 3: for reporting and you feel like you're getting smoke and
Speaker 3: mirrors or hyperbolic, not well researched stuff, go to pro
Speaker 3: Publica and see if they have some work on the
Speaker 3: topic you're attempting to learn more about. They when they swing,
Speaker 3: they do not miss.
Speaker 5: They and a documentary series for a while, I want
Speaker 5: to say, in association with.
Speaker 4: PBS or something like that.
Speaker 5: They've done a lot of investigative video series as well,
Speaker 5: so they have a really great YouTube channel you can follow.
Speaker 4: I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 5: It does seem like nine times out of ten when
Speaker 5: there's some serious breaking news, some like bombshell type stuff,
Speaker 5: Republica's names in the conversation.
Speaker 4: But no, Matt, I really love, don't love.
Speaker 5: I just think it's very valid the point you made
Speaker 5: in the quote you gave from the ProPublica pieces about
Speaker 5: how this is a way of passing the buck to
Speaker 5: an entity, to an algorithm, and it's happening across the
Speaker 5: board in all kinds of industries. Like why you know, well,
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, it's just this is just what the algorithm
Speaker 5: is saying. It's it's like what the computer's telling me.
Speaker 5: There was a great sketch on Little Britain, which a
Speaker 5: lot of didn't age well. But there's one character who
Speaker 5: is like, computer says now, and.
Speaker 4: It's just like, sorry, I can't do it. I can't
Speaker 4: help you. The computer says no, computer says triple your rates,
Speaker 4: like I can't. They can't do anything for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, Nico points out Graystar as another company we
Speaker 2: should all be thinking about and looking into, because it
Speaker 2: appears that they are a massive player in this game,
Speaker 2: and they are using what's referred to here as and
Speaker 2: I didn't read this before. I didn't know it was
Speaker 2: called this yield Star, which I don't understand is potentially
Speaker 2: a type of software offered by Real Page or another
Speaker 2: you know, proprietary software that they offer, but it appears
Speaker 2: to have. Again, there's just quotes here from from executives
Speaker 2: at Graystar saying, oh yeah, even in one of our downturns,
Speaker 2: this software helped us outperform other markets by four point
Speaker 2: eight percent. It cool.
Speaker 5: Last last little thing for me in terms of like
Speaker 5: parallels in other industries. You guys remember Connor Ratliffe, who
Speaker 5: is a really great improv comedian. He was in Ment
Speaker 5: fabulous Missus Masls or Marvelous Missus Masls. And he has
Speaker 5: this excellent YouTube show called The George Lucas Talk Show
Speaker 5: where he plays George Lucas and does all kinds of
Speaker 5: hilarious interviews and he's really really talented to to Upright
Speaker 5: Citizens Brigade alum and had a fabulous podcast series called
Speaker 5: Dead Eyes talking about how he got fired by Tom
Speaker 5: Hanks from Band of Brothers before he even you know,
Speaker 5: actually showed up on set because he supposedly had dead Eyes.
Speaker 5: And the podcast is his attempt to kind of track
Speaker 5: down Tom Hanks and ask, you know, what happened, why,
Speaker 5: why he fired him? But he it's really really good.
Speaker 5: But anyway, he has another thing that he does. It's
Speaker 5: an acting kind of like jokey acting masterclass thing that's
Speaker 5: like a basically a one man improv show. And there's
Speaker 5: a piece of it that he published on his YouTube
Speaker 5: recently where he's talking about the Nielsen rating system back
Speaker 5: in the day, like no one knew what how many
Speaker 5: people were actually watching TV because it was all based
Speaker 5: on this sort of black box, you know, Nielsen ratings
Speaker 5: where a family would get a box and a Nielsen
Speaker 5: diary or whatever and then because of that, they would
Speaker 5: like use that sample size and say, okay, well then
Speaker 5: there must be x number of other families watching, and
Speaker 5: they would extrapolate these viewing numbers.
Speaker 4: Right. Well, come along to the streaming era.
Speaker 5: You've got Netflix, who know exactly how many people are watching.
Speaker 5: They know when you're stopping it, when you're starting it,
Speaker 5: how long you're watching, et cetera. And they and their
Speaker 5: infinite wisdom have decided not to tell that to anybody,
Speaker 5: including creators, and to be completely you.
Speaker 4: Know, opaque about that rather than transparent.
Speaker 5: So it's just interesting the idea of computerized algorithms being
Speaker 5: another just black box in a way of hiding things
Speaker 5: from people.
Speaker 4: I think it's very very interesting across industries.
Speaker 2: I know we all every once in a while listen
Speaker 2: to comedy Bang Bang, But if you guys haven't heard
Speaker 2: this actor Connor Ratliffe portray James Cameron, you need to
Speaker 2: go and listen to an episode where he plays James Cameron.
Speaker 2: It's amazing.
Speaker 5: Agreed, Well, we'll take a quick break here for a
Speaker 5: word from our sponsor and then be right back.
Speaker 6: Thanks.
Speaker 5: By the way, Nico, I said, Nico is an Ikko.
Speaker 5: I think Nick Nico works too, either one. But thank
Speaker 5: you for this insider scoop on rent pricing software. We'll
Speaker 5: be back with more listener mail after this.
Speaker 2: And we're back boys, and we're getting on the road.
Speaker 2: We're gonna hear a message from Gravy a truck driver.
Speaker 2: Guess what his truck's.
Speaker 4: Name is, the Gravy Train biscuits.
Speaker 6: Dang it.
Speaker 2: All right, so here we go. This is the message
Speaker 2: from Grady.
Speaker 7: Hey, Ben, No, Matt, and Max. I go by Brady
Speaker 7: the truck driver, and it's g R. A. D Y
Speaker 7: the truck driver.
Speaker 6: I'm pretty much in Texas in the five state area.
Speaker 6: Been listening to the offer quite a while now I'm
Speaker 6: call caught up on all your backstuff and Josh and
Speaker 6: Chucks and ridiculous crime, ridiculous history, savor all that kind
Speaker 6: of stuff.
Speaker 7: Anyway, back in the nineties here in.
Speaker 6: Texas, they were going to build a super collider, and
Speaker 6: the government brought up thousands of acres and basically was
Speaker 6: using an eminent domain to make people sell give them
Speaker 6: a fair price.
Speaker 7: But then after a couple three years of digging tunnels
Speaker 7: and stuff, all of a sudden they stopped and decided
Speaker 7: that they weren't going to do it. So did they
Speaker 7: turn that into a bunker or are they doing the
Speaker 7: various things or whatever. A friend of mine's grandmother's still
Speaker 7: trying to buy back her back twenty acres. It's got
Speaker 7: her fishing bond on it.
Speaker 6: They got eight foot fence around it with bob war
Speaker 6: you know, that runs around their property, so she can't
Speaker 6: get over there and even go fish for perch and
Speaker 6: stuff anymore. It hasn't been able to for coming up
Speaker 6: on thirty years anyway, you know, check.
Speaker 7: It out and see what you think.
Speaker 6: Maybe it's conspiracy, maybe it's not.
Speaker 7: Beast Brothers.
Speaker 4: Thanks Gravy.
Speaker 3: This is we love. We love hearing from truckers. And
Speaker 3: I got very excited when this like pinged a little
Speaker 3: bit of a memory palace. And Matt, I believe you.
Speaker 4: You spoke with Gravy.
Speaker 2: Right, Oh yeah, I talked with Gravy for way too long.
Speaker 2: Sorry about that. Man took way too much of his time.
Speaker 2: But we we talked about all kinds of different things,
Speaker 2: especially the super conducting super collider that was the one
Speaker 2: they were building in Texas. Doesn't that just sound Texas?
Speaker 5: Sounds intense? They love the big stuff over there in Texas.
Speaker 2: Now this is it was, uh, it was gonna be
Speaker 2: a big deal, guys, a really really big deal. Was
Speaker 2: just looking at some reporting about it from the time,
Speaker 2: and uh man, it was, uh so Ronald Reagan is
Speaker 2: the president in place that secured this project as a thing, right,
Speaker 2: And then it went on to George H. W. Bush,
Speaker 2: George George Bush Senior. And there's an incidence that Gravy
Speaker 2: and I were talking about that I totally forgot, but
Speaker 2: I remembered as soon as I read it. Back in
Speaker 2: the day, you guys were probably paying attention to presidents
Speaker 2: a little bit. We weren't really like watching the news
Speaker 2: all the time. I wasn't certainly. But there's an incident
Speaker 2: when George HW. Bush was in Japan and he was
Speaker 2: eating at a dinner and he vomited all over the place,
Speaker 2: including on I think high members of Parliament.
Speaker 3: And Kow High Japanese high members of Japanese governance. And accidental.
Speaker 2: It was accidental, but it was not a power move.
Speaker 3: The mas genis or something.
Speaker 2: Wait what but but yeah, I just that occurred. And
Speaker 2: the reason one of the primary reasons the president was
Speaker 2: in Japan was to secure more funding for this super
Speaker 2: conducting super collider in Texas because the cost overruns it
Speaker 2: was projected. They need they've got like three billion dollars
Speaker 2: for it. Then it was going to cost like ten
Speaker 2: million dollars. It was going over and over and over,
Speaker 2: and which is the primary reason why it's shut down.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, because it's like a monkey pause situation
Speaker 3: at that point, I want this to be a big deal.
Speaker 3: Finger curls down. It will be just not the way
Speaker 3: you wish.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And ps also in Texas style, guys, it was going
Speaker 2: to be roughly three times the size of CERN's super collider.
Speaker 2: That'll teach them the large hadron.
Speaker 3: We were talking a little bit off air. This is
Speaker 3: what ping the the memory for me, Matt was the
Speaker 3: was realizing our episode, should we be concerned, we're looking
Speaker 3: at the rabbit hole of tangential research led us to
Speaker 3: other unsuccessful attempts to emulate or to improve upon the
Speaker 3: mission of or the infrastructure of CERN, and turns out
Speaker 3: it's really kind of tricky, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, tricky and expensive, like the type of equipment that
Speaker 2: is so precise that has to go into every inch
Speaker 2: of this giant you know, miles long whatever shape it's
Speaker 2: probably like a circle.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like fifty fifty four circumference. I mean that's
Speaker 3: that's also the thing, like I believe in you. If
Speaker 3: you're listening to this, we believe in you. I don't
Speaker 3: know if all of us on the show working together
Speaker 3: could build a super collider. So I don't you know,
Speaker 3: like when you see the magnificent ambition of something like this,
Speaker 3: I think it still is. I mean, it's a boondoggle
Speaker 3: and they definitely I'm with Gravy. It definitely sounds like
Speaker 3: they screwed some people on imminent domain. But this is
Speaker 3: how science works. You have to you have to build
Speaker 3: in the fact that some of these things just aren't
Speaker 3: gonna get to completion.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but it was a big deal. It was
Speaker 2: gonna go into a town called I'm gonna see if
Speaker 2: I can say this right, wak Sahachie. This is a
Speaker 2: town in Texas. It's spelled w a x A c
Speaker 2: h A c h i E, which is it's fun
Speaker 2: to spell.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 5: There's a there's a very talented singer songwriter artist that
Speaker 5: goes by that name Waxahachi, who's I believe from Texas.
Speaker 4: They pronounced it waxahachi is how I've heard it said it.
Speaker 3: Oh, it sounds like Vinyl and their music.
Speaker 2: It is whack sa w A A K. That's the pronunciation.
Speaker 4: I've got w a X. Sorry you're doing the pronunciation, guy,
Speaker 4: got it? Got it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, I don't know, guys. But the whole reason
Speaker 2: we're talking about it is because Gravey called in and
Speaker 2: has a family member whose property was you know, so
Speaker 2: I guess purchased by the government there for the purposes
Speaker 2: of this giant construction project. And what happens to that
Speaker 2: land the thing that we were talking about, and I
Speaker 2: want to ask you guys about I think that because
Speaker 2: there was some drilling that was going on. There was
Speaker 2: work being done on this project for quite a while
Speaker 2: before it was canned. There were projected there were a
Speaker 2: projected eight thousand jobs that were going to be created
Speaker 2: for this project. It was a huge deal for that
Speaker 2: small town and all this land that was being purchased.
Speaker 2: It was actually a huge deal for land a lot
Speaker 2: of landowners because they're getting quite a bit of money
Speaker 2: for land, like large swaths of land that they owned,
Speaker 2: not in the middle of nowhere, but far out enough
Speaker 2: to where, you know, you're probably not imagining a big
Speaker 2: city's going to come through and buy your land. It
Speaker 2: was a huge deal. What happens to the land afterwards?
Speaker 2: Can you sell it back to those landowners now that
Speaker 2: you've drilled giant holes into it? And in some case
Speaker 2: this has built huge tunnels that are made of metal
Speaker 2: and cylindrical because those things, at least according to the
Speaker 2: official story, they filled all of those tunnels up with
Speaker 2: water and they capped all the shafts the entrances to
Speaker 2: get down into them. So basically they're just sitting there dead.
Speaker 2: Could you sell that back to somebody? Is it like
Speaker 2: selling land that has a missile silo on it?
Speaker 3: You know, it's a value add I could say, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, because also it's a bunker, right,
Speaker 3: you could, That's what I'm saying, retrofit that and I guess,
Speaker 3: you know, to answer the question, honestly, it would depend
Speaker 3: on what the what the ideal use of the land
Speaker 3: would be at that point, right, Like, are you still
Speaker 3: able to use it the way that you would want
Speaker 3: to use it? What is a fair price to sell
Speaker 3: it back? You know, how do you handle things that
Speaker 3: the private market would handle it? Adjusting for inflation, et cetera,
Speaker 3: et cetera. And I don't know exactly how this would work,
Speaker 3: but if it was taken for a through imminent domain
Speaker 3: for this specific project, and that project is definitely not
Speaker 3: happening anymore, right.
Speaker 2: Bet no no? I mean again, the all of the
Speaker 2: tunnels are flooded with water, shafts are capped. There is
Speaker 2: a building or several buildings on the property, on this
Speaker 2: huge swath of land that has according to WFAA, it's
Speaker 2: a I think it's an ABC News affiliate. They said
Speaker 2: that there's a chemical manufacturer that functions on the property somewhere.
Speaker 2: But my question is, guys, this is what Gravy and
Speaker 2: I were talking about. What if you did this entire
Speaker 2: thing as cover to acquire all of that land and
Speaker 2: start building something underneath it. But it's not a particle accelerator,
Speaker 2: it's not a super collider, it's something else, and it's
Speaker 2: still there.
Speaker 3: Does Gravy have a guess?
Speaker 2: The theory is like kind of bunker style stuff seek
Speaker 2: create weapons that could be under there, the way some
Speaker 2: land was purchased covertly to put you know, missiles underneath
Speaker 2: them in silos.
Speaker 4: Or Disney World, yeah, or Disney World.
Speaker 2: But in this case, the land is all still there,
Speaker 2: some own some previous landowners want it back. So it's
Speaker 2: just it is a little weird. It feels like the
Speaker 2: government could use the money, even if it's you know,
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty thousand dollars here, one point five
Speaker 2: million dollars there, could probably use it. Why not sell
Speaker 2: that stuff back unless there's you know, something wrong with
Speaker 2: the soil, right.
Speaker 3: There's the there are I mean, I think the troubling
Speaker 3: thing about that gravy is that it is plausible. I
Speaker 3: wouldn't even say, I wouldn't even dismiss it down to
Speaker 3: the level of possible. It is plausible because precedent for
Speaker 3: that sort of thing does exist, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: We know that there are often controversies surrounding any great work,
Speaker 3: any work of this magnitude, like the Hoover Dam, you know,
Speaker 3: the three gorgeous dam, a third thing that is not
Speaker 3: a dam. I'm just doing rule of threes. The idea
Speaker 3: of using it as a cover story doesn't necessarily mean
Speaker 3: that the people building the thing always meant that to
Speaker 3: be the case, right, It could be was the investment
Speaker 3: group that purchased this maybe they just said, Hey, this
Speaker 3: is kind of infrastructure for the thing we need.
Speaker 2: Right right, What was that Project ice Worm we talked about.
Speaker 2: There was like a secret construction project under the ice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Project ice Worm.
Speaker 5: That's like some true Detective Season four type stuff, right,
Speaker 5: We're not necessary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we did that because they wanted to build missile
Speaker 3: launch sites under Greenland or under an ice sheet around Greenland.
Speaker 3: And they thought, look, if we do this and we
Speaker 3: don't tell any body what we're doing out here in
Speaker 3: the middle of nowhere, no offense Greenland, then we will
Speaker 3: have a secret sucker punch in the Great Nuclear Arms Race.
Speaker 3: You know, it's the equivalent of like in Goonies where
Speaker 3: the smart kid has the invention, like the boxing glove
Speaker 3: that comes out it's on a spring. Yeah, that's definitely
Speaker 3: not a dated reference I just did. But the ice
Speaker 3: Worm was building something like that. And we know that
Speaker 3: there are a lot of active sites in the United States.
Speaker 3: Security is tight by necessity, so it's possible. I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't know, Matt, what's our over and under on
Speaker 3: getting boots in the ground. Love to join you, Gravy,
Speaker 3: and let's see how far how far past the fence
Speaker 3: we can get.
Speaker 2: How deep can we go? How deep can we get
Speaker 2: them boots into the ground. I let's do it. I
Speaker 2: don't know, but I'd love to take a trip out
Speaker 2: there and check out the land. But it is still
Speaker 2: government property, so you know, there's an eight foot fence
Speaker 2: as the gravy's point. You gotta be careful. I'm down.
Speaker 2: I want to learn more. It feels cool to me.
Speaker 2: It feels like such a missed opportunity. There there's some quotes. Actually,
Speaker 2: let me give people this articles you can find it.
Speaker 2: You can search for the super conducting super Collider colon
Speaker 2: how Texas got the world's most ambitious scientific project, and
Speaker 2: why it failed. This thing really was a big deal.
Speaker 2: It was gonna it was before cern. It was gonna
Speaker 2: be active for ten years prior to the large Hadron
Speaker 2: collider coming on. There's quotes in there about all of that, like, man,
Speaker 2: we really missed out. This was so amazing and we failed.
Speaker 2: But it's because in order to make something like this,
Speaker 2: you gotta get the will of the people, or enough
Speaker 2: of the people that have enough of the money to
Speaker 2: say okay.
Speaker 3: And at every step of the way, you have to
Speaker 3: defend the project against an army of lawmakers who want
Speaker 3: to get real acted based on being tough spending yo,
Speaker 3: And the first thing, often, the first thing that will
Speaker 3: go is going to be a social program or a
Speaker 3: scientific endeavor.
Speaker 2: You know what, We could have done it. But George W. Bush.
Speaker 2: You know what he famously said, Guys.
Speaker 3: What'd you say?
Speaker 2: No? No taxes?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people give them a hard
Speaker 3: time because really, you gotta there's no such thing as former.
Speaker 3: What I got to say is, like he you know,
Speaker 3: maybe we need to read the printed transcript because his
Speaker 3: original speech was probably no period new taxes.
Speaker 2: Read my lips, new taxes, No new taxes.
Speaker 3: Exactly because a plot twist he was given me credit
Speaker 3: as a writer he deserves. But uh man, yeah, where
Speaker 3: do where does this leave us?
Speaker 2: Doesn't leave us anywhere? Besides thank you Gravy for calling
Speaker 2: in when you did with this story. Thank you also,
Speaker 2: And I'm going to tell this to you guys off air,
Speaker 2: or maybe we can all just call Gravy back together.
Speaker 2: He promises he's going to call back. Numerous times. He
Speaker 2: told a little Myrtle Beach, South Carolina UFO story from
Speaker 2: like nineteen eighty eight. Hell yeah, I want to tell
Speaker 2: you guys about it. But how about this gravy call
Speaker 2: back in tell us that story, then we can all
Speaker 2: talk about it. That'll be the best way to do it.
Speaker 4: All right.
Speaker 2: Well, that's it for now, Thank you Gravy, Thank you biscuits.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back with more messages from you.
Speaker 3: And we have returned one thing a mental note just
Speaker 3: while I have it in my head for another show,
Speaker 3: we do ridiculous history top failed US massive US projects.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean, what didn't become the Hoover Dam.
Speaker 3: That's going to be a great episode. All right, We've
Speaker 3: got that. Sorry, folks, you're seeing the homework live. Let's
Speaker 3: start with a little bit of background. We had a
Speaker 3: fantastic response from people with firsthand experience with a group
Speaker 3: called locally two by two, sometimes referring to themselves as
Speaker 3: the friends within the organization. And with this out of
Speaker 3: all the correspondents, we got so much but really appreciated
Speaker 3: this one from a conspiracy realist we will call see
Speaker 3: see you said the following, Hello, I've been in a
Speaker 3: stuff they don't want you to know, listener for years now.
Speaker 3: I've always enjoyed your show. I usually skipped the listener
Speaker 3: mail program, so I missed the one referring to the
Speaker 3: two by twos as a cult until today. I wanted
Speaker 3: to reach out right away because I grew up following
Speaker 3: that religion. My sister was a worker or missionary for decades,
Speaker 3: my parents had Sunday meetings church in their living room
Speaker 3: every week, and many other people I deeply respect. There's
Speaker 3: still part of that faith personally, says See, I stopped
Speaker 3: attending meetings about thirteen year years ago when I was
Speaker 3: deeply depressed and felt that not following any religion was
Speaker 3: the best choice for my mental health. I still feel
Speaker 3: that way for myself, but I know many people whose
Speaker 3: mental health is helped by their faith, and I also
Speaker 3: think that is valid, and I really appreciate that point.
Speaker 4: See on the same.
Speaker 3: Page There, he continues, all that is to say that
Speaker 3: I did not leave the group on bad terms. I
Speaker 3: didn't leave it because I think the doctrine is wrong.
Speaker 3: But I did leave it and have not sought out
Speaker 3: any other faith since. And this is where we get
Speaker 3: some really even handed, even handed information from s who continues,
Speaker 3: this group is not a cult. There is no central leader,
Speaker 3: and the people who are in positions of authority, aren't
Speaker 3: considered deities or anything like that, just a bit better
Speaker 3: listening to and obeying God than the average believer. Maybe
Speaker 3: the convention gatherings are not what you would expect if
Speaker 3: you were picturing an evangelical megachurch service or something similar.
Speaker 3: They're very quiet. The entire congregate sings hymns together. Anyone
Speaker 3: who feels moved to has the opportunity to make a
Speaker 3: short audible prayer. Several of the workers or ministers share
Speaker 3: a message from the Bible. Members of the congregation also
Speaker 3: have the opportunity to share brief messages from their own
Speaker 3: Bible reading or just something that touched them. We'll get
Speaker 3: back to this line that has already been shared at
Speaker 3: the convention, and here we get a really humanizing thing.
Speaker 4: Here.
Speaker 3: I will defend the beliefs and way of life of
Speaker 3: these people or what these people have, with all my heart.
Speaker 3: But of course, the vice articles are about CSA, which
Speaker 3: is child sexual abuse, which is indefensible. Unfortunately, because there
Speaker 3: is no central leader, no formal training of any kind
Speaker 3: for the workers the ministers, each instance where abuse took
Speaker 3: place was handled or not handled, more likely by a
Speaker 3: person who had no business handling I can't defend not
Speaker 3: reporting alleged CSA to authorities, but I can say that
Speaker 3: was definitely not a policy. Vaguely aware of one instance
Speaker 3: where a male worker was accused of inappropriate behavior with miners,
Speaker 3: and while I don't remember the circumstances of something that
Speaker 3: happened half my life ago, I do remember that he
Speaker 3: killed himself rather than face the consequences. More than anything else,
Speaker 3: I want to impress upon you that abuse of any
Speaker 3: kind is not taught or generally accepted in this faith.
Speaker 3: The fact that men in positions of authority use that
Speaker 3: power and authority to rape is horrifying, but it's by
Speaker 3: no means unique to this group. The fact that reports
Speaker 3: of abuse were mishandled or ignored is awful, but I
Speaker 3: believe it is a product of people with no training
Speaker 3: relying on decades old traditions, rather than a product of
Speaker 3: malicious intent. I can't say the friends are universally good people,
Speaker 3: but that's just it says. See, the group is made
Speaker 3: up of people. Some are good, some are mediocre, and
Speaker 3: a few have turned out to be truly awful, just
Speaker 3: like people all over the world, in or out of
Speaker 3: any religion or way of life. We'll stop it there,
Speaker 3: But I think those are pretty solid points.
Speaker 2: What do you don't think, no doubt? Yeah, well it's
Speaker 2: super solid. And it's great to hear from somebody who
Speaker 2: has real experience inside and understands how it works and
Speaker 2: understands the way it feels to be a member of
Speaker 2: the group, which is I think something that anybody who
Speaker 2: hasn't actually experienced that, you know, been in the worship
Speaker 2: sessions of whatever religion, whatever belief system it is, been
Speaker 2: in the moments where there's prayer, the moments where a
Speaker 2: pastor or a leader of a group is actually speaking
Speaker 2: to you, and what those words sound like coming out
Speaker 2: of them rather than just being written down, because it
Speaker 2: really can change things. I think about the way transcripts
Speaker 2: look of podcasts right when we've gone over those. It's
Speaker 2: very different when it's being I hate hesitate to say performed,
Speaker 2: but it's when it's being emitted by a human voice
Speaker 2: rather than just words that anybody could read in their
Speaker 2: own voice and give it their own thing.
Speaker 3: Intonation, cadence, right, and frequency implication. Most human communication is
Speaker 3: not the words people are actually saying to you, especially
Speaker 3: in an in person situation. And I would say that
Speaker 3: there are people of tremendous faith who are also just
Speaker 3: super awesome people, you know what I mean. Like, I
Speaker 3: love hanging out with monks from pretty much any religion.
Speaker 3: They're super chill, right, And we also see this point
Speaker 3: about a group being made of people. It's something that
Speaker 3: we have talked about at length on this show, and
Speaker 3: it's something that you know, I think it's something a
Speaker 3: lot of people struggle with, is the idea that we
Speaker 3: should not dismiss other people's beliefs, especially if they're not
Speaker 3: forcing anything on you. It's easy for us to poo
Speaker 3: poo things. You know, a lot of us used to
Speaker 3: be those hot headed internet athiest on Reddit. But if
Speaker 3: it's working for them, and further indeed, if it's helping
Speaker 3: them make the world a better place, that I say,
Speaker 3: go team I've got say that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent say it.
Speaker 5: I'll literally say it out loud often when having conversations
Speaker 5: about Religi.
Speaker 4: There's even a part of me that is a little envious.
Speaker 5: Of the good ones, the folks that have faith and
Speaker 5: have religion and use it as a positive force in
Speaker 5: their lives. There's some part of me that wishes that
Speaker 5: I have that.
Speaker 4: In my life.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie now. To be clear, this is
Speaker 3: there's a very even handed thing, as you were saying,
Speaker 3: it's from somebody who's in the organization or was in
Speaker 3: the organization and seem to have, you know, by and large,
Speaker 3: a good or at least not terrible and traumatizing experience.
Speaker 3: This is not the only piece of correspondence. We had
Speaker 3: a lot of other people right in who have views
Speaker 3: or opinions or experiences that make differ. And I think
Speaker 3: that difference, that description and see just goes to further
Speaker 3: proof ceas point like, not all nodes of these communities,
Speaker 3: right were uh, were monolithic?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: They weren't all doing the same thing, you know.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: And the point about organizations is also really powerful because
Speaker 3: bad faith actors can be in pretty much any organization
Speaker 3: outside of maybe municipal governments in Singapore, because those guys
Speaker 3: are pretty sweaky clean. It's a weird way to walk,
Speaker 3: but they are have they are very up to snuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah I did. I've been rewatching the Righteous Gemstones again.
Speaker 2: I think I keep mentioning this.
Speaker 3: I watch Oh gosh, can I tell you my favorite
Speaker 3: I've got issues? Things get stuck in my head. I
Speaker 3: have watched a troubling amount of times in a row
Speaker 3: the song misbehaving, and we all know misbehaving.
Speaker 8: Yeah, the weirdest line in the This is what captures me,
Speaker 8: the weirdest line because it's an example of like good
Speaker 8: old timey cracker barrel type kid hijinks misbehavior, you know.
Speaker 8: But there's a dark side to it, and they come
Speaker 8: from Baby Billy's parts. In one part, he's just saying,
Speaker 8: run around the house with a pickle in my mouth speed.
Speaker 5: I don't know, he's just being man. I really like,
Speaker 5: what is it? Oh lord, there's a payday.
Speaker 2: That's when Baby Billy is singing at the resort. I
Speaker 2: just watched that episode and I cannot stop that thing
Speaker 2: from playing.
Speaker 4: You're wearing the giant like shell or whatever.
Speaker 3: The misbehaving line though, the sinister part that mentioning go
Speaker 3: back and listen to this he he begs his daddy
Speaker 3: not to disappear.
Speaker 4: So very baby Billy.
Speaker 3: It's just like one line and then levels to that song.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm sorry, I derailed us.
Speaker 5: Why always worth a righteous Gemstones derailment?
Speaker 2: I did real because I wanted to mention. I wanted
Speaker 2: to shout out again, Tony, I think it's Cavallero. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he plays Keith just he. I watched the scene again
Speaker 2: where he slaps one of the muscle men's pecks, and
Speaker 2: it is just one of the funniest, like small comedic
Speaker 2: physical things I've seen a lot.
Speaker 4: He's a big fan of Disgrace Land.
Speaker 5: It's a podcast we used to have on the network,
Speaker 5: and I worked with those guys and through them.
Speaker 4: I actually had a zoom call with.
Speaker 5: Him one time, and it was funny because it was
Speaker 5: before I was a super fan of the show, so
Speaker 5: I didn't really think that much of it.
Speaker 4: It was just like like I was like hearing a
Speaker 4: podcast picture or something. But now that I'm a huge fan,
Speaker 4: I'm like thinking back on that, I'm like, dang, I
Speaker 4: wish I wish it would have happened just a little
Speaker 4: bit later.
Speaker 3: We're going to keep this one relatively short. Again, we
Speaker 3: have missions to embark upon. However, before we do, I'd
Speaker 3: like to give you one Letter from Home again, our
Speaker 3: sort of conspiratorial Prairie Home Companion without the Garrison Keeler creepiness,
Speaker 3: hopefully because he got in trouble. I don't know if
Speaker 3: you guys heard about that yeah, yeah, bad stories. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Uh so this comes to us from Son of a Mitch. No,
Speaker 3: Son of the Mitch says, uh again, letters from home,
Speaker 3: it's just our How you doing, How are you folks?
Speaker 3: You know, tell us about your part of the world.
Speaker 3: Son of the Mitch says, Hey, guys, I wanted to
Speaker 3: reach out and say thanks for crafting such a great show.
Speaker 3: You threw your part of my daily commute, and it's
Speaker 3: a huge benefit to be able to spend that time
Speaker 3: learning while also being entertained a difficult balancing act. Thank you, sir.
Speaker 3: Like Mark Twain said, you can live for a long
Speaker 3: time off one compliment.
Speaker 4: I listened to.
Speaker 3: Your strange news program covering the North Korean balloons filled
Speaker 3: with feces and trash, and my first thought was, ah,
Speaker 3: those darn ninety nine loot balloons. Going back to the
Speaker 3: note about transcript versus speech, and so, the Son of
Speaker 3: a Mitch says, I know a joke of this variety
Speaker 3: is tricky to deliver through a medium that's primarily audio,
Speaker 3: but it seemed to be something Ben could pull off.
Speaker 4: Hope we did.
Speaker 3: Your proud Son of a Mitch, thank you so much
Speaker 3: for writing to us. Hashtag no pun left behind, not
Speaker 3: even humorous. Harry has he emailed us recently?
Speaker 4: God, I hope not. I'm just getting humorous there and
Speaker 4: we love you. And the very last thing.
Speaker 3: You may have seen this somewhere on social media, but
Speaker 3: we just figured out, or I just figured out, you
Speaker 3: can get Illumination Global Unlimited hats. I thought they were
Speaker 3: just T shirts. So it turns out that we still
Speaker 3: have swag.
Speaker 5: You guys, Wow, have swag for days. Bro swagger that's
Speaker 5: what you call it. No swaggers is different. Yeah, merged,
Speaker 5: that's right, you totally can. Ben's rocking the hat right now,
Speaker 5: Illumination Global Unlimit.
Speaker 4: It looks great on you. Yeah.
Speaker 3: We are proudly sponsored by Illumination Global Unlimited. And thank
Speaker 3: you for saying so. No, I am required to state
Speaker 3: quote Illumination Global Unlimited has in no way threatened our families, friends,
Speaker 3: or current nation states.
Speaker 4: And I think I.
Speaker 3: Think we got it there. We're going to call it
Speaker 3: an evening venture out into the darkness, and if you
Speaker 3: would like to walk off the edges of the map,
Speaker 3: you can join us there too. Thanks to see thanks
Speaker 3: to Son of a Mitch, Gravy, Nico and everybody else
Speaker 3: who took the time to join us on our continuing mission.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to do the full Star Trek reference,
Speaker 3: but we want to be easy to find online, correct.
Speaker 5: We do want that and we hope that we achieve
Speaker 5: that with our handle Conspiracy Stuff, which is the way
Speaker 5: you can locate us on your Internet platform of choice,
Speaker 5: including Facebook, where we have our Facebook group. Here's where
Speaker 5: it gets crazy, xfka Twitter as well as you too,
Speaker 5: with fresh video content rolling your way every single week.
Speaker 4: On Instagram and TikTok. You can find this at the
Speaker 4: handle conspiracy Stuff show.
Speaker 2: These are the voyages of the starships stuff. They don't
Speaker 2: want you to know you can access it. You can
Speaker 2: access it by dialing one eight three three std WYTK.
Speaker 2: Put it in your phone as a contact so you
Speaker 2: know if the void calls you back, cause it might
Speaker 2: when you call in, give yourself a cool nickname. Then
Speaker 2: you've got three minutes say whatever you'd like do include
Speaker 2: in that message, whether or not we have permission to
Speaker 2: use your voice and message on the air. If you
Speaker 2: got more to say they can fit in that three
Speaker 2: minute voicemail. Why not instead send us a good old
Speaker 2: fashioned email.
Speaker 3: We are the entities that read every single message we receive.
Speaker 4: Be well aware.
Speaker 3: Sometimes the void writes back. And I've been saying that
Speaker 3: a lot lately, because it is true. Twenty four hours
Speaker 3: in the evening, seven nights a week, all you gotta
Speaker 3: do is reach out and touch Faith can't wait to
Speaker 3: hear from you. Conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
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