1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,279 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. I was 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: feeling like the episodes I had picked for the podcast, 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: not all of them, but a lot of them, we're 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: trending towards the heavier side. I went on a hunt 7 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: to try to find something that would be more fun. 8 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: And I really felt like I had seen something recently 9 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: at j Store Daily that had been that magical blend 10 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: of just like really interesting and really fun sounding, and 11 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: I went over there to look for it, and that 12 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: is where everything went awry, because what I clicked on 13 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: instead was an article about the use of tear gas 14 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: against the Two Bonus Army. Um. We are approaching the 15 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: end of July as we record this, and tear gas 16 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: has been in use and in the news a whole 17 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: whole lot. So that is not a fun topic. But 18 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: that is what wound up completely commandeering my attention. I 19 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: have been conscious that we have been doing a lot 20 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: of dark things, so I keep trying to pick light things, 21 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: and then when you were like I'm doing so, they 22 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 1: light and like the next day you were like tear 23 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: gases like welp, yeah, and you're you're one that we're 24 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: going to be recording next in this session. It's also 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: not one of the happier topics. We uh, we just 26 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: went down a path this week. It's a mix. It's 27 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: a mix of cookie and serious. There's for sure some 28 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,639 Speaker 1: cookiness in your one. But here we are on tear gas. 29 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: So tear gases or lacrymator agents are named for the 30 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: lachrymal glands which secrete tears, but tears are really just 31 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: one small part of it. Exposure to most tear gases 32 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: affects the mucous membranes and the respiratory system, and it 33 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: also activates one of two pain receptors in the body. 34 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: In addition to causing the eyes to tear up, tear 35 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: gas can cause burning of the skin, eyes, mouth, and nose. 36 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: I think sometimes people don't realize that when they just 37 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: see it reported on the news. It also causes blurred vision, 38 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 1: drooling and difficulties swallowing, wheezing, shortness of breath, choking, and 39 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: chest tightness, rashes, as well as nausea and vomiting. Tear 40 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: Gas exposure is also associated with miscarriages, and in some 41 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: cases it can be lethal, especially in babies, elders, and 42 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: people with conditions like asthma. The devices that are used 43 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: to deploy tear gas can also cause injuries and deaths 44 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: if they or their pieces hit someone. Yeah, even when 45 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: that does not happen, it's it's like it's immediately incapacitating. 46 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: It's it's not just something that like, oh, your eyes 47 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: are tearing up and maybe you want to move to 48 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: fresh air. I'm uncomfortable, I should walk away. It's like 49 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: you're downed right, right. So all all of these substances 50 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: are grouped together and they're called tear gas. They're not 51 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: really gases. One of the ones that's most commonly used 52 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 1: today is CS or two chlorobenziladine mon nitral and it 53 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: is solid at room temperature. There's also CN or chloroacetophenone, 54 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: and that's also known as mace. That's a crystalline substance 55 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: that is propelled as a liquid or as a very 56 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: fine powder. Pepper spray or only a resin capsicum is 57 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: an oily resin that's extracted from hot peppers. To be clear, 58 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: it is not food. It's usually propelled as a pressurized liquid, 59 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: and then there are other ones as well, including CR 60 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: or diamond socks, a zeppine, and also refined versions of 61 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: CS known as CS two or C X. There are 62 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: also various canisters and grenades and other devices that disperse 63 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: these substances not as gases but as aris lies, liquids, 64 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: or powders, and those liquids and powders can remain on 65 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: the skin, clothing, and surfaces long after they have dispersed 66 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: from the air. Tear gases that are used for things 67 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: like riot control and crowd suppression today trace back to 68 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: chemical warfare in World War One, which is something that 69 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: was controversial from the beginning. Societies have made various efforts 70 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: to establish rules for warfare throughout history. In terms of 71 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: what we're talking about today. In the late nineteenth and 72 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: early twentieth centuries, a series of multinational conventions led to 73 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: treaties that outlined various rules of war. One of the 74 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: first of these was in St. Petersburg, Russia, in eighteen 75 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: sixty eight, resulting in a declaration that started with the 76 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: idea quote that the progress of civilization should have the 77 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: effect of alleviating as much as possible the calamities of war. 78 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: More specifically, a declaration that was issued during the Hague 79 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: Convention of eight nodded back to the sentiment that Holly 80 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: just read from the Declaration of St. Petersburg. From there, 81 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: this new declaration required signatories to quote agree to abstain 82 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: from the use of projectiles the object of which is 83 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: the diffusion of asphyxiating or deleterious gases. Then, on October 84 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: eighteenth of nineteen oh seven, another Hague Convention stated that 85 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: it was forbidden to quote employ poison or poisoned weapons. 86 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: These directives grew out of a fear of chemical warfare 87 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: that had grown in tandem with the Industrial Revolution, and 88 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: an overall really long lasting taboo against poison and other 89 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: chemical weapons as basically unfair and uncivilized. These treaties didn't 90 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: stop nations from researching chemicals that could be used as 91 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: some kind of weapon, though France in particular had signed 92 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: the Hague declarations but also developed tear gases for use 93 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: in riot control. Then in World War One, France used 94 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,720 Speaker 1: tear gas grenades to try to drive German troops out 95 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: of the trenches At the Battle of Frontiers In nineteen fourteen, 96 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: Germany which was also a signatory to these treaties, also 97 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 1: tried something similar against Allied troops that October. Neither of 98 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 1: these efforts was particularly effective, though, with the targeted troops 99 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: not even realizing that they were under attack, so some 100 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: sources do not count these as the first use of 101 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: chemical warfare in World War One. So these another early 102 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: efforts sort of danced around the Hague Convention. The gases 103 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: in question were meant to temporarily incapacitate people, not to 104 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: permanently injure or kill them. On the other hand, the 105 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 1: whole point of that temporary incapacitation was to leave the 106 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: targets vulnerable to attacks with more conventional weapons. In April 107 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: of nineteen fifteen, at the Second Battle of Ipra, Germany 108 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: moved in a different direction based on a strategy by 109 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: chemist Fritz Haber. We just rereleased our episode on Harbor 110 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: from the archive as a Saturday classic. Uh. This att 111 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: ac used to gas that was definitely deadly, but without 112 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: projectiles involved, so it was technically still within the limits 113 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: of at least the first Haig Convention. German troops waited 114 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: until the wind was blowing in the right direction and 115 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: then released nearly two hundred tons of chlorine gas to 116 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: be blown into Allied trenches. More than one thousand Algerian, 117 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: Moroccan and French soldiers were killed. Thousands more were wounded. 118 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: Both sides were just totally unprepared for this gas attack. 119 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: The Allied troops had no gas masks, no other defenses prepared. 120 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: I mean, why would they really? There had been some 121 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: knowledge that something was going on, but still like not 122 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: not something of this scale. The German troops also, we're 123 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: not ready to take advantage of how effective this attack 124 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: had been. So while the Allied death toll was high, 125 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: they didn't actually lose a lot of ground after this attack. 126 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: The international community reacted to this use of gas without rage. 127 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: The attack combined with germany sinking of the passenger ship 128 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: RMS Lusitania and its invasions of Belgium in Luxembourg, which 129 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: had been neutral, to solidify the idea that Germany's approach 130 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: to the war was particularly brutal. In spite of that 131 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: outrage and this overall perception that Germany's strategy was particularly 132 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: nefarious in this war, Britain and France each started working 133 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: on chemical weapons of their own, and in tandem, the 134 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: warring nations in Europe developed new poison gas weapons, new 135 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,719 Speaker 1: gas masks and other protective strategies, new methods for deploying 136 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: chemical weapons so that the targets would not be able 137 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 1: to don that protective gear, and new treatment protocols for 138 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 1: gas exposure. In spite of early efforts to sidestep the 139 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: Hague Conventions with some of these weapons, but pretty soon 140 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: the armies are just totally ignoring it. They were developing 141 00:08:53,960 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: projectiles for deploying gas, specifically deploying deadly gas and eating 142 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 1: artillery shells, mortars and livins projectors which remotely launched drums 143 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,719 Speaker 1: of gas. In addition to the injuries and deaths that 144 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: came from gas exposure, the use of chemical warfare in 145 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: World War One was demoralizing and also disorienting. Troops had 146 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: to remain in a perpetual state of fear and readiness. 147 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: Gas masks were uncomfortable, and they were not always effective, 148 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: and they blocked the wearer's peripheral vision. Sometimes the lenses 149 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: fogged over as well. The gases themselves were also terrifying 150 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: to experience as well as just to witness. By the 151 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: end of the war, attacks with chlorine fosterene and mustard 152 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: gases had caused at least ninety thousand deaths and more 153 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: than a million casualties. That's a small number compared to 154 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: the estimated twenty million civilian and military deaths in the 155 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: war total, but the deaths from the gas attacks were 156 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: particularly horrifying. The United S eights was really a latecomer 157 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: to all of this. Although the US did start doing 158 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: some chemical warfare research before becoming directly involved in the war, 159 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 1: that was really a cobbled together effort. Much of the 160 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: nation's expertise with gas came from the Department of Mines, 161 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: which had experience dealing with poison gases. A Chemical Service 162 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: section was also established under the U S Corps of Engineers, 163 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: and a gas service section was established with the American 164 00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: Expeditionary Forces. But in general, when American troops arrived in Europe, 165 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: they just had very little knowledge or experience with chemical weapons. 166 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: They had to rely on the other allies for information, training, 167 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,079 Speaker 1: and protective equipment. It's not really clear how much of 168 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: this lack of preparedness stemmed from this overall taboo against 169 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: chemical weapons, and how much of it was because news 170 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: out of Europe was being censored before arriving in the US, 171 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: so American authorities might not have realized just how much 172 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: chemical warfare was really going on. In June of nine 173 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: teen eighteen, the Chemical Service Section became the Chemical Warfare Service, 174 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: and the Chemical Warfare Service played a huge role in 175 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: the development of tear gas for use in peacetime. We're 176 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: going to talk about that more after a sponsor break. 177 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: After the end of World War One, the US started 178 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: scaling back its military to peacetime levels, as of course 179 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: other nations did as well, and at first the plan 180 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 1: was to disband the Chemical Warfare Service entirely. There was 181 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: a perception, or maybe kind of a hope, that chemical 182 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 1: warfare had been developed for this specific war, and that 183 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: it was going to disappear now that the war was over, 184 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: and that would make the CWS unnecessary. This general perception 185 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: even went so far as to include soldiers abandoning or 186 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: kind of fake losing their gas masks rather than turning 187 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: them in as they were released from service. This wasn't 188 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: just a matter of wishful thinking. Even though both the 189 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: Allied and Central Powers had used chemical weapons in the war, 190 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: their use was still really taboo, and much of the world, 191 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: and then these taboos were bolstered by firsthand accounts from 192 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 1: veterans about what the gas attacks during the war were like. 193 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: Not everyone agreed with the idea that chemical warfare was 194 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 1: inhumane or uncivilized, though. One supporter of chemical warfare was 195 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: General Amos Freeze of the Chemical Warfare Service. He had 196 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: served with the Gas Service Section during the war, and 197 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: he had been awarded the French Legion of Honor, the 198 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 1: British Companion of St. Michael and Saint George, and the 199 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: American Distinguished Service Medal. Freeze thought that chemical weapons could 200 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: be more humane than conventional weapons, and he believed that 201 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: the United States would be unprepared again if it didn't 202 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 1: continue to research and develop them. Of course, he also 203 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 1: wanted to protect the service that he was working for. 204 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,599 Speaker 1: He thought that if he could convince the public that 205 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 1: chemical weapons had peacetime uses and that they were safe 206 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 1: and effective for those uses, that then it would destigmatize 207 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: their use in war. He hoped that with that stigma removed, 208 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 1: the public would allow and even encourage chemical warfare. That 209 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: would mean that the Chemical Warfare Service would not just 210 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: survive the post war downsizing of the military, it would 211 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: also allow for chemical weapons and the CWS to become 212 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: a really central part of American military strategy. He imagined 213 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 1: a military in which every unit had its own dedicated 214 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: chemical squad, with the most up to date advanced chemical weapons, 215 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 1: as well as tactics and protective equipment all at their disposal. 216 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: So Freeze successfully lobbied for the military to keep the CWUS. 217 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: The CWS started a trade publication called Chemical Warfare, which 218 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 1: published articles arguing that chemical weapons were less traumatic to 219 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,599 Speaker 1: the body and less lethal than conventional weapons. But of 220 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 1: course this all glossed over the fact that many of 221 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: the chemical weapons that had been developed for use in 222 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: World War One were formulated specifically to kill people. Frees 223 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: rallied support from the American Chemical Society, professional chemistry journals, 224 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: and various chemistry programs. He and his supporters also pushed 225 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: the idea that all war was terrible, but that a 226 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: lot of the resistance to chemical warfare specifically was just 227 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: that people were not used to it yet the way 228 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: that they were used to things like guns, artillery, and bombs. 229 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: The CWS also looked for other uses for the gases 230 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: that had been developed for the war, like home security 231 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: systems that released to toxic gas when they were activated, 232 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: or the use of chemical weapons to fight agricultural pests. 233 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: After someone noticed that workers at a chlorine gas plant 234 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: had fewer cases of the nineteen eighteen pandemic flew, they 235 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: explored whether chlorine gas could prevent illness, especially lung infections. 236 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: This involved intentionally exposing people to low dose is of 237 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: chlorine gas. One of the test cases was President Calvin Coolidge, 238 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: who underwent three consecutive treatments from May twenty to twenty 239 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: second four. The President said that his cold got better 240 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: as a result, although it should be noted that cold 241 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,359 Speaker 1: typically get better on their own. None of these proposed 242 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: peacetime uses for chemical weapons really took off. What did 243 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: take off, though, was tear gas. As we've talked about 244 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 1: in several other episodes of the show. The US and 245 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: other places went through major social and economic upheaval after 246 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: World War One. Strikes another labor disputes were widespread, which 247 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: we've covered on several previous episodes. So was mob violence, 248 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: especially targeted against black people and their communities, which we 249 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: have also talked about in several episodes, including our episode 250 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: on Red Summer. Starting in early nineteen nineteen Freeze and 251 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: the Chemical Warfare Service started framing tear gas as the 252 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: ideals ution for these types of unrest. However, the Department 253 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: of War, which had been planning to dismantle the CWS, 254 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: was not in favor of this. In February of nineteen nineteen, 255 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: the War Department ordered the CWS not to provide any 256 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: type of chemical weapon, including tear gas, to any civilian 257 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: or military law enforcement personnel. But at the same time, 258 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: people and departments were petitioning the Department of War to 259 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: be allowed to use tear gas on civilians. This included 260 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: in October nineteen nineteen, request to use chemical devices on 261 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: striking steel workers in Gary, Indiana, and various requests from 262 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: law enforcement who wanted to use it or have it 263 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: on hand for so called race riots. We've talked about 264 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: why that phrase is problematic many times before. Even as 265 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: the Department of War maintained that it would not allow 266 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: chemical weapons to be used against residents of the United States, 267 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: the Chemical Warfare Service was designing and testing devices to 268 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: use chemical agents for crowd control. In the National Defense Act, 269 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: which was also known as the Second Army Reorganization Bill, 270 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: established a new organizational structure for the U. S. Army, 271 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: and in addition to other things, this act formalized the 272 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 1: Chemical Warfare Service as part of the Army. CWS Director 273 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: William L. Siebert was reassigned and he retired shortly after that. 274 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: This is something that a lot of people interpreted as 275 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: a punishment for the CWS having pushed back so hard 276 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: against the Department of War's efforts to dismantle it. Taking 277 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: his place was General Amos Freeze. To be clear, the 278 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: CWS was still doing military work, including advocating for training, 279 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: supplies and a gas company for each overseas garrison. Freeze 280 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: also continued to advocate for chemical warfare to be a 281 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: standard part of every unit, but there was still a 282 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: lot of focus on peacetime use of chemical weapons, as 283 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: we said earlier, to try to sway public opinion on 284 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,239 Speaker 1: chemical weapons in general, and to protect the CWS from 285 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 1: being declared irrelevant in the face of that ongoing stigma 286 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: and the potential for international treaties banning their use. This 287 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: was in spite of the fact that the Department of 288 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: War still wouldn't approve the use of chemical weapons on civilians. 289 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: That last part changed in nine one after Warren G. 290 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: Harding was sworn in as President of the US He 291 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: appointed John W. Weeks as Secretary of War. John J. 292 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: Pershing became Chief of Staff that July, and Pershing was 293 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: the person who had appointed Freeze to the Gas Service. 294 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 1: Back during the war, Freeze started advocating for changes to 295 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: how the Department of War was approaching chemical warfare, specifically 296 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,639 Speaker 1: with civilians, and as part of this, Freeze arranged for 297 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: a demonstration outside of Philadelphia, and which about two hundred 298 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: police officers tried and failed to make their way through 299 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: a cloud of tear gas. In August of nine one, 300 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: Freeze conducted another demonstration, this time on a group of 301 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: Girl Real Scouts from nearby Camp Bradley, one of whom 302 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: was his daughter Elizabeth. The scouts took a tour of 303 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: Edgewood Arsenal, during which they were exposed to tear gas. 304 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: This visit was written up in The Washington Post in 305 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: an article that read quote, the girls found that the 306 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: name tear gas was no misnomer, as all cried copiously 307 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: for a few seconds when the gas was released. They 308 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: greatly enjoyed the trip and put it down as one 309 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: of the Red Letter events of the camp. There's a 310 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: lot that's not clear about this whole outing, but the 311 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: general sense seems to be that tear gas was both 312 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: effective and that it was safe enough to use on 313 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: girl scouts. This is the weirdest PR stunt. There's so 314 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: much in that whole thing. You know. I tweeted about him. 315 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: People were like that, excuse me, what what? What? What 316 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 1: were they even thinking? And I was like they were 317 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: thinking that they were trying to show the public that, like, yeah, 318 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: it's totally okay to to tear gas little girls. Anyway, 319 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: the War Department lifted its prohibition on the use of 320 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: chemical weapons against civilians, but only for agents like tear 321 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: gases that were not considered poisonous in August of nine one. 322 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: This was in response to a request from the governor 323 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: of West Virginia for help restoring order during an ongoing 324 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: series of labor disputes in its mining industry. These series 325 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: of disputes or something that we have covered previously in 326 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,600 Speaker 1: our episode on the Battle of Blair Mountain. During the 327 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: first week of September nineteen twenty one, the Chemical Warfare 328 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: Service deployed soldiers and prepared an assortment of c N 329 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: gas devices from Edgewood Arsenal, including a thousand grenades, three 330 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: fifty mortar shells, and a hundred nine one aerial drop bombs. 331 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: By this point, tear gas was also available from private manufacturers. 332 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: The first of these was called Chemical Protection and was 333 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: established in ninety one. So while tear gas was used 334 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: against the miners in the Battle of Blair Mountain, it 335 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: wasn't by these federal trueops. It was by a force 336 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: rallied by mine operators and the local sheriff. The miners 337 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: mostly surrendered after the federal troops arrived, before the weapons 338 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: from Edgewoard Arsenal were used. Freeze did take the opportunity 339 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: to test some of their tear gas weapons after this, 340 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: and the CWS used the results of those tests to 341 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: publish Provisional Instructions for the Control of Mobs by Chemical Warfare, 342 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: which came out in the Department of War reinstated that 343 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: prohibition on tear gas against civilians. Not long after this, 344 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: Freeze and the CWS and various trade publications kept on 345 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: with their pr efforts to try to sway opinions about 346 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: tear gas. This included in November article in Gas Age Record, 347 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 1: which described Freeze as quote firmly convinced that as soon 348 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: as officers of the law and colonial administrators have familiarized 349 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: themselves with gas as a means of maintaining order and power, 350 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: there will be such a diminution of violent social disorders 351 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: and savage uprisings to amount to their disappearance. H A 352 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: lot of the language in these pr efforts was racist. 353 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: Like a lot of it was about maintaining the power 354 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: of colonial authorities over the people who had been colonized, 355 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 1: with the colonized people being like savage barbarians. It was gross. 356 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: The Chemical Warfare Service also cooperated with private businesses, giving 357 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: chemical manufacturers samples of gases the CWS had developed, and 358 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: allowing these manufacturers to test their products at Edgewood Arsenal. 359 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: The CWS also lobbied against international treaties that jeopardized its work, 360 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: including the Treaty relating to the Use of Submarines and 361 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: Noxious Gases, which was signed by five nations but did 362 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: not become binding because France didn't ratify it. Yeah. I 363 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: think we've mentioned on the show before that with treatise 364 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: there's usually this two step process where like nations signed 365 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 1: the treaty, but then their individual governments have to ratify 366 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: the treaty UH and so this had been signed but 367 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: not ratified. Although that nineteen two treaty was worded in 368 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: a way that seemed to prohibit all chemical weapons, than 369 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: public opinion continued to be on the side of an 370 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: outright ban on all chemical weapons. Freeze and the CWS 371 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: kept on making a case that tear gas and other 372 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: so called non toxic gases were an exception. In August 373 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: of ninety two, the War Department again lifted the prohibition 374 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: on the use of tear gas by federal troops and 375 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: civil disturbances. By this point, tear gas was also becoming 376 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: way more common in civilian law enforcement as well. As 377 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, the first private tear gas manufacturer had 378 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: started operations in nine By nineteen twenty three police were 379 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: equipped with tear gas and more than six hundred cities 380 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: around the United States. The Chemical Warfare Services ongoing efforts 381 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 1: to frame chemical weapons as humane also had another totally 382 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 1: different outcome. During these years, the US saw its first 383 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: execution by gas chamber on February eighth, n In ninety five, 384 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: the Geneva Gas Protocol prohibited the use of chemical and 385 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: biological weapons in war. The US signed the protocol, but 386 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: didn't actually ratify it until nineteen seventy five. It wasn't 387 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: long before nations outside of the U S. We're also 388 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 1: using tear gases to disperse mobs and suppress descent. We'll 389 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: talk more about that after a sponsor break. Word of 390 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: American efforts with tear gas quickly spread to other parts 391 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 1: of the world. I mean, other parts of the world 392 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 1: had also been developing tear gasses, but the U S 393 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: effort on this was was large. In nineteen twenty, British 394 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: authorities in India started lobbying to be allowed to use 395 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: tear gas against the Indian independence movement. They cited the 396 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: Jelly and Wallabag massacre, also known as the Ritzer massac or, 397 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 1: which took place on April thirteenth, nineteen nineteen. At least 398 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:09,719 Speaker 1: three hundred seventy nine unarmed demonstrators were killed and more 399 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: than a thousand were injured after forces under Brigadier General 400 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: Reginald Dire opened fire on them. Advocates for tear gas 401 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: use in India framed this as a tragedy that might 402 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: not have happened if British colonial forces had less lethal 403 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: weapons available to them as an option. The India Office, 404 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: on the other hand, insisted that since gas could not 405 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: be used in war, it could not be used in 406 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: peace either. Colonial authorities continued to request permission to use 407 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: tear gas, and the India Office continued to refuse into 408 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: the early nineteen thirties, at which point it allowed the 409 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: use of tear gas often called tear smoke because of 410 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: the ongoing associations with gas warfare in World War One. 411 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,680 Speaker 1: That was only after announcements were made that it would 412 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 1: be used if the crowd didn't disperse. From there, the 413 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: use of tear gas started to spread to other British 414 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: territories as well. At this point. Palestine was under British 415 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: control under a mandate from the League of Nations. British 416 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: authorities there started requesting tear gas in ninety nine after 417 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,880 Speaker 1: riots and massacres that were connected to disputes over control 418 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 1: of the Western Wall in Jerusalem. Finally, the High Commissioner 419 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: of Palestine got permission to use tear gas to control riots, 420 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: but only when it seemed as though the only other 421 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: choice would be firearms. At first, this continued to be 422 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 1: the mindset as other countries adopted the use of tear gas, 423 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: that gas should only be used in circumstances where without 424 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 1: it the only choice would be lethal weapons. But over 425 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 1: time authorities began thinking of tear gas as the first response, 426 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,120 Speaker 1: that it should be used to disperse crowds earlier rather 427 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: than later. To return to the US for a moment. 428 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: By the nineteen thirties, tear gas was part of the 429 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 1: arsenals of police departments all over the country. But one 430 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: of the earliest uses of tear gas by federal troops 431 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: domestically in peacetime was on July twenty, nineteen thirty two. 432 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 1: And that's the Bonus Army that I mentioned up at 433 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: the top of the episode. Congress had passed the World 434 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: War Adjusted Compensation Act in nineteen twenty four, and that 435 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: act would allow World War One veterans to be compensated 436 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: for wages that they had lost while serving in the war. 437 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: They were supposed to be paid a dollar per day 438 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: of state side service and a dollar in twenty five 439 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: cents per day overseas. People who were owed less than 440 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: fifty dollars were paid immediately, and then for everybody else 441 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: that payout was scheduled with interest in nineteen forty five. However, 442 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: the Great Depression meant that people needed their money a 443 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: lot sooner than that. The Bonus Army, also called the 444 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 1: Bonus Expeditionary Force, was a group of about twenty thousand veterans, 445 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: many with their wives and children, who went to Washington 446 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: to demand immediate payout. When a measure to do so 447 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 1: was defeated in the Senate, many of the Bonus Army 448 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: went home. Those who didn't held increasingly vocal protests over 449 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,359 Speaker 1: the next few weeks, until federal troops dispersed them using 450 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: tanks and tear gas, burning down their encampment in the process. 451 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: Two of the demonstrators were killed, and a baby reportedly 452 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: died from tear gas exposure. This incident was a blow 453 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: to the reputation of then President Herbert Hoover, and it's 454 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: been cited as one of the reasons he lost the 455 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: election against Franklin D. Roosevelt. But the Chemical Weapons Service 456 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: and Edgewood Arsenal called this clearing of the demonstrators a 457 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: practical field test, something that showed the power of tear 458 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: gas to disperse even the most dedicated dissenters, with at 459 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: least in their view, minimal harm. Lake Erie Chemical even 460 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,959 Speaker 1: used photos of the clearing of the Bonus Army as 461 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 1: part of its marketing materials. The popularity of tear gas 462 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: really spread from there, say else. Reps from American chemical 463 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: manufacturers visited places both domestically and internationally that we're experiencing 464 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: unrest to sell tear gas to private citizens, business owners, 465 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: and law enforcement. Various governments, businesses and organizations also started 466 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: stockpiling tear gas in case of future need. For example, 467 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: between nineteen thirty three and nineteen thirty seven, one point 468 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: to five million dollars worth of tear and sickening gas 469 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: had been bought in the US in anticipation of labor strikes. 470 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: Of course, there were certainly times that tear gas was 471 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: used because of actual crime or violence that was happening, 472 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: but often it was really just focused on suppressing descent. Yeah. 473 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: Also that one point to five million dollars, that is 474 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties dollars that is not adjusted for modern currency. 475 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: Chemical warfare degency nearly the kind of use during World 476 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: War Two that it had during World War One, although 477 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: chemical weapons were used in death camps under the Nazi regime. 478 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: In terms of combat use, it just was not present 479 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: in the same way. But after the war, tear gas 480 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,719 Speaker 1: continued to be a primary tool for suppressing protests, dispersing 481 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: strikers and the like. Over the years, it also shifted 482 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: again in how it was used. Back in the nineteen thirties, 483 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: tear gas had started out mainly perceived as a last 484 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: resort when the only other option might be firearms or 485 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: other more lethal weapons, and then, as we noted, it 486 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: became more of a first line of defense, used early 487 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: to disperse and demoralize a mob or other crowd, but 488 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: by the civil rights movement in the nineteen fifties and 489 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: sixties it was being used as a precursor to other violence. 490 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: For example, on Bloody Sunday during the Selma to Montgomery 491 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: March in five State troopers deployed forty canisters of tear gas, 492 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: twelve smoke canisters, and eight canisters of nausea gas, before 493 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: then beating the marchers with their night sticks and other weapons. 494 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: This included fracturing the skull of the late John Lewis. 495 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: The nineteen sixties also saw some of the first uses 496 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: of tear gas as more of an offensive weapon, including 497 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 1: the use of a national Guard helicopter to spray demonstrators 498 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 1: at Berkeley with tear gas in nineteen sixty nine. This, 499 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: of course, also allowed the gas to drift two adjacent 500 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: areas and affect people that had nothing to do with 501 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: the demonstration, including children at a nearby preschool and people 502 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: who were swimming in a university swimming pool. Obviously, this 503 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: is not a comprehensive list of every time tear gas 504 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: has ever been used, or every nuance and how it 505 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: has shifted like that's impossible in the scope of one podcast. 506 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: But in the book Tear Gas From the Battlefields of 507 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: World War One to the Streets of Today, it describes 508 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: the most recent shift in tear gas history as the 509 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: year twenty eleven, thanks to the combination of several things 510 00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: happening simultaneously, including the Occupy movement in North America, uh 511 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: the Chilean student protests that started that year, the Egyptian 512 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: Revolution of twenty eleven, and the Arab Spring. All of 513 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: this included what was described as the weaponized use of 514 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: tear gas in Bahrain, which led to at least thirty 515 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: four gas related deaths and numerous injuries from people being 516 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: struck with the tear gas canister. Tear gas sales have 517 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: tripled since twenty eleven, with other high profile uses since 518 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: then being Turkeys occupied Gezi protests in the Umbrella movement 519 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: in Hong Kong, and the protests in Ferguson, Missouri after 520 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: police officer Darren Wilson fatally shot Michael Brown also in 521 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: and the ongoing protests against police brutality and racism in 522 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: the United States. In some parts of the world today, 523 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: people also described tear gas as an almost ever present 524 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: fact of life, including an occupied Palestine and parts of 525 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: Uganda and Nigeria. Proponents of tear gas generally maintained that 526 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: it is say when used correctly, and that it's less 527 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: deadly than other weapons, including firearms, but a lot of 528 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: research to back up as safety is spotty at best. 529 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: A lot of it was conducted by the military, and 530 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: the results of that research are classified. Some of this 531 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: research has also come from experiments that were done on 532 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: people without their consent, including experiments that were conducted at 533 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: Edgewood Arsenal in the US and at Porton Down in England. 534 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: One of the most cited reports on the safety of 535 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: tear gas is the Hymsworth Report, which followed an investigation 536 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: led by London doctor Sir Harold Hymsworth. This followed the 537 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: Battle of the bog Side, which took place during the 538 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: Troubles in Northern Ireland in nine During this incident, the 539 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: Royal Ulster Constabulary fired more than one thousand canisters of 540 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: tear gas and other gas weapons into a densely populated 541 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: Catholic neighborhood over the span of thirty six hours. Residents 542 00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: fought back by throwing things like stones and Molotov cocktails. Yeah, 543 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 1: they also threw back the tear gas when they were 544 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: able to. After all this, a lot of people reported 545 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: things like vomiting and diarrhea and other physical effects, some 546 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: of them long lasting. But Hym'sworth really dismissed this testimony. 547 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,879 Speaker 1: He relied mostly on hospital records, and he didn't really 548 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: take into account that most people would not fight their 549 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: way through tear gas to get to a hospital for 550 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: something like diarrhea or vomiting. He also didn't really factor 551 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,840 Speaker 1: in the fact that the nearest hospital staff were primarily 552 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: Unionists while the neighborhood's residents were primarily nationalists. They were 553 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: on the opposite side of the troubles. That seems like 554 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,959 Speaker 1: such a stupid thing to leave out of a data set. 555 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 1: It's really frost um. No, I don't know nobody came 556 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: in well, because they'd probably be arrested, among other things. Right, Yeah, 557 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: there's so many reasons not to go to the hospital 558 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: while your neighborhood is being like assaulted with tear gas. 559 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: In addition to these shortcomings in this research and the 560 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: lack of research into how tear gas affects people who 561 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: are exposed to it over a prolonged period, there is 562 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: so much footage from the last few years showing tear 563 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: gas being used incorrectly. This includes firing tear gas projectiles 564 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 1: directly at people, using large amounts of tear gas in 565 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 1: a small space, and firing tear gas at people who 566 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,360 Speaker 1: do not have a path to escape from it. Yeah. Literally, 567 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,760 Speaker 1: just this morning before coming in here, I saw video 568 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 1: from last night from like a bunch of officers in 569 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: protective gear restraining a protester in the cloud of tear gas. Uh. 570 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: In addition to all of those things not being researched 571 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: a lot, there's also just not a lot of research 572 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 1: into the environmental effects of all of these things, especially 573 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: when they're being used over a prolonged amount of time, 574 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 1: Like it's not a gas that just vanishes away, even 575 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 1: if it were. I mean, there's a long term cumulative 576 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:55,920 Speaker 1: effect of using a lot of it, Like it's a 577 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,280 Speaker 1: it's a powder or a liquid that's landing on surfaces 578 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,320 Speaker 1: and washing into the you know, the storm drain system, 579 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 1: Like all of that is just not a lot of 580 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: research into the effect of any of that. To circle 581 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 1: back around though, to Freeze and the Chemical Warfare Service today, 582 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: that service is the Chemical Core. It is charged with 583 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: protection from weapons of mass destruction, including chemical, biological, and 584 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: radiological and nuclear threats. And in spite of all of 585 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: his pr work, Freeze was really not successful in shifting 586 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: the general global opinion on chemical weapons. Chemical weapons in 587 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: warfare are still banned. They're still regarded as uncivilized or barbaric. 588 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:42,879 Speaker 1: They're associated with terrorism. Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, production, stockpiling, 589 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: and Use of Chemical Weapons and on their Destruction has 590 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,200 Speaker 1: a hundred and sixty five signatories. So far, it's been 591 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 1: ratified by sixty five states, which was the number needed 592 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: for it to become binding. The agents that are used 593 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 1: in tear gas are not included in its list of 594 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 1: prohibited toxic chemicals and their precursors though another nice uplifting topic. 595 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: I know, I know, I keep I keep doing it. 596 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I know a lot of people. There are 597 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 1: a lot of people that have been like, I always 598 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: want to learn from your podcast. Whatever you want to 599 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: talk about is fine with me. And then we also 600 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 1: hear from people who are like, I listened to your 601 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 1: podcast for fun. So like, if you listen to our 602 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: podcast for fun and you have been really brought down 603 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: by my choice of topics lately, Uh, I'm sorry, I don't. 604 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: I I feel like some of the stuff we've talked 605 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: about is really important. But I also totally understand when 606 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 1: your pleasure listening takes a turn into the more serious. 607 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: You know, Here's what I keep reminding myself when I'm like, wow, 608 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:43,959 Speaker 1: we talked about a lot of heavy stuff lately, because 609 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 1: it is important. Listen Octobers on the horizon, people, and 610 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:54,840 Speaker 1: I promise there's tons of sons coming. Yeah. Um, some 611 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: of the podcast I listened to for fun have understandably 612 00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: like I mean, so many shows are like they have 613 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 1: been talking more about things that are related to the 614 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: pandemic for the protests, um, and I know that, like 615 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: with if it's my fun pleasure listening, sometimes I will 616 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:10,840 Speaker 1: just like leave that one for a little bit and 617 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,239 Speaker 1: come back to it later. Which we are not going 618 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: to be offended if folks do that, not even a little. Nope, UM, 619 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: do do what you do. I mean, I have mentioned 620 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: before I feel like I have so many advantages and 621 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: privileges in this moment that we are in, and it 622 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: is still incredibly hard for me to concentrate and get 623 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: through my day. So whatever people need to do to 624 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: keep themselves going in the midst of all that, I 625 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: don't judge you for it. I have listener mail. It 626 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 1: is from Kate, and Kate has written us about um, 627 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,239 Speaker 1: something that a lot of people have written to us 628 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,359 Speaker 1: about because I made a mistake, and I'm sorry, Kate says, Hi, 629 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: Tracy and Holly, I'm sure by now you're aware that 630 00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: you made the classic Idaho, Ohio, Iowa mix up in 631 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: your Coincal pro Part two episode. Senator Frank Church, who 632 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: led the Church Committee investigating abuses by the intelligence community, 633 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: was a senator from the great state of Idaho, not Ohio. 634 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: I apologize if you have received more spirited responses informing 635 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: you of the classic mix up us. Idahoans are very 636 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,839 Speaker 1: proud of our history and Frank Church in particular. During 637 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: Senator Church's long tenure in the Senate, he was a 638 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: vocal advocate for preserving America's wilderness. They played a pivotal 639 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,800 Speaker 1: role in creating several protected wilderness areas across America, and 640 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: Idaho in particular, helped lobby for and established the Hell's 641 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 1: Canyon National Recreation Area, a canyon deeper than the Grand 642 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 1: Canyon and straddling the Idaho Oregon border. He also helped 643 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,040 Speaker 1: establish the Saw Tooth Wilderness and National Recreation Areas, a 644 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: sharp and jagged topped mountainous area located close to Sun Valley, 645 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 1: Idaho's world famous ski resort. Finally, one of his biggest 646 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,680 Speaker 1: projects was establishing the River of No Return Wilderness Area. 647 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: It was later renamed the Frank Church River of No 648 00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,800 Speaker 1: Return Wilderness Area in his honor. The area is the 649 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: largest wilderness area in the continental US, spanning two point 650 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,720 Speaker 1: three six seven million acres in east central Idaho. Growing 651 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 1: up in Idaho, I was so blessed to have the 652 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: ability to explore all the public, state and federal land 653 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: open and available to me. I went to summer camps 654 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 1: in the saw Tooth whitewater rafting in the Frank Church 655 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: Wilderness area, and stayed very far away from the edge 656 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,400 Speaker 1: of the cliffs in Hell's Canyon. It wasn't until I 657 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 1: was older that I realized how incredibly lucky I was, 658 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 1: and that many other states and their citizens didn't have 659 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,880 Speaker 1: this kind of access to the great outdoors because the 660 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: lands are private and visitors are prohibited in many other states. 661 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 1: Idaho was special and unique, at least we think so. 662 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: Idaho is so lucky to have advocates like Senator Church, 663 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,240 Speaker 1: who fought to keep public lands public for the enjoyment 664 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: of all. Idahoan's admiration for this may likely explain any 665 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 1: strongly pointed corrections you may have received. I'm sorry on 666 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: behalf of my fellow citizens. They are just as passionate 667 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: and uncontrolled. Um Kate has got on to send some 668 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:09,240 Speaker 1: classic I Hadahoe pronunciation mix ups. I'm just gonna glass 669 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 1: over there because there's because I feel like if we 670 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: read them now, then three years from now, when I 671 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 1: have forgotten this exchange ever even happened, and we do 672 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,320 Speaker 1: it wrong, uh, people will like be like, didn't you 673 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,360 Speaker 1: read a thing about that before. It's tough so o. 674 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: Kate says, thanks for all the fun, sad, thoughtful, and 675 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,799 Speaker 1: interesting podcasts you produced. They've brought me so much joy 676 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 1: and learning over the years. Feel free to do an 677 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,399 Speaker 1: Idaho inspired podcast anytime in your future. Sincerely, Kate, thank 678 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: you so much for this note. Kate. We did get 679 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:43,880 Speaker 1: um lots of notes about this, thankfully, most of them 680 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:51,439 Speaker 1: have not been spirited or unkind. I did just mess 681 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: up the word in my head. I guess, I don't know. 682 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 1: I I messed it up in the outline. It wasn't 683 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,800 Speaker 1: even a case where um it was right in the outline, 684 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: and it just came about out of our mouths wrong, 685 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:07,440 Speaker 1: which also happens on just a continual basis. Um So anyway, 686 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 1: I am sorry. I messed that up. For what it's 687 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: words like. Uh. We discussed this, Tracy and I had 688 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 1: this come up in a completely different way on a 689 00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 1: like a very casual chat call we were on a 690 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,800 Speaker 1: few days ago, where they're just words. People's brains flip. 691 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,479 Speaker 1: I will say April when I'm in August almost every 692 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: single time. Yeah, that's like the two a months just 693 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: flip for me. And sometimes this causes very startled and 694 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,879 Speaker 1: panicked faces in meetings, but it's just because I never 695 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: my brain is really struggles with stuff like that, So 696 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: there are always instances of that for everybody. I always 697 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,840 Speaker 1: try to just cut people slack because I know everyone's 698 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: brain has a weird little pecadillo that sometimes does stuffing 699 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 1: like that. I also cut people slack on like the 700 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:57,320 Speaker 1: local pronunciations of things, because like, oh yeah, but like 701 00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: the way those pronunciations work is they sort of they 702 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 1: signal to everybody whether you're from around here or not. 703 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,319 Speaker 1: And if somebody's not from around here, I just let 704 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,399 Speaker 1: it go. If somebody has just moved to around here, 705 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 1: I might very delicately let them know the right way 706 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: to say it so that they're not embarrassed in the future. Well, 707 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:20,879 Speaker 1: and then there's a third category for me, which is that, um, 708 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,600 Speaker 1: particularly in Atlanta, right, we have a street named after 709 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:32,680 Speaker 1: an explorer, which in Atlanta we call constantly on and 710 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,799 Speaker 1: when visitors come and they say it sounds so much 711 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:41,319 Speaker 1: prettier that I don't want to correct them. Yeah yeah, um. 712 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,000 Speaker 1: Recently I was listening to one of my favorite other podcasts. 713 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 1: I'm not going to say which podcast because I don't 714 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 1: want anybody to let go give them a hard time. 715 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,040 Speaker 1: But they said the name of a Massachusetts town as 716 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 1: it is spelled, which is haver Hill. But the way 717 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,279 Speaker 1: that Massachusetts town is pronounced is harl And when I 718 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,960 Speaker 1: heard them say it, I was like, oh no, their 719 00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,000 Speaker 1: Twitter mentions, Uh, I think I would even want to 720 00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,280 Speaker 1: look their Twitter mentions. We're not too bad so anyway, 721 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 1: I only know that because I live here. Anyway, Thank 722 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,360 Speaker 1: you again, Kate. I am sorry for just like my 723 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,239 Speaker 1: total mess up in that particular thing. Um. Oh, what 724 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,319 Speaker 1: other note I just wanted to note because I feel 725 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,080 Speaker 1: like we've talked about our website a few times, but 726 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,640 Speaker 1: one thing we have not specifically said is we don't 727 00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:34,319 Speaker 1: get any type of notification about comments that are left 728 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,880 Speaker 1: on the website. So if you leave us a comment 729 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,480 Speaker 1: on the website, there is a good chance we will 730 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:43,239 Speaker 1: not see any timely manner we might never see it. Um. 731 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:47,680 Speaker 1: Email is a much better way to uh to get 732 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,560 Speaker 1: in touch with us, and our email address is History 733 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: Podcast at iHeart radio dot com. If you're going to 734 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:55,320 Speaker 1: email us and say, why don't you just turn the 735 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,480 Speaker 1: comments off, it's not in our power to do it. Unfortunately, 736 00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:02,080 Speaker 1: We did Ask So History podcast at i heeart radio 737 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,399 Speaker 1: dot com. We're also all over social media at miss 738 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,040 Speaker 1: in History, and that's where you'll find our Facebook and 739 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,480 Speaker 1: Twitter and Pinterest and Instagram. And you can subscribe to 740 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:12,040 Speaker 1: our show on Apple podcast and the I heart radio app, 741 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:19,359 Speaker 1: but anywhere else you get your podcasts. Stuff you missed 742 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,800 Speaker 1: in History Class is a production of I heart Radio. 743 00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the iHeart 744 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,160 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 745 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:28,880 Speaker 1: favorite shows.