WEBVTT - Detours: The Great Muscle Car Debate with Mike Musto 0:00:15.316 --> 0:00:27.556 Pushkin. Hi, I'm Eddie Alterman. Welcome to Detours, a special 0:00:27.596 --> 0:00:30.516 series from Car Show where we go on extended drives, 0:00:30.876 --> 0:00:35.356 run additional interviews, and sometimes put my sociological theories to 0:00:35.396 --> 0:00:38.876 the test. This week, I sit down with muscle car 0:00:38.956 --> 0:00:42.396 guru Mike Musto, who didn't totally agree with my hot 0:00:42.396 --> 0:00:47.956 take that the GTI was Generation x's gto. Then we 0:00:48.116 --> 0:00:50.796 talk about the ever expanding category of the muscle car, 0:00:51.356 --> 0:00:55.076 the possibility of an electric version, and how car culture 0:00:55.276 --> 0:01:01.276 ultimately bridges all of these rigid taxonomies. Anyway, thanks Mike 0:01:01.356 --> 0:01:03.796 for joining us. Yeah, of course that this is fun. Man, 0:01:03.836 --> 0:01:07.116 I do this all day too. But I'm glad. I'm 0:01:07.156 --> 0:01:11.476 glad we're immediate to discuss this hot topic. Yes, absolutely, 0:01:12.516 --> 0:01:16.796 So you listened to the episode, you heard my maybe 0:01:16.876 --> 0:01:21.636 specious argument. What do you think I think? I think 0:01:21.876 --> 0:01:25.116 you know, there's there's definitely merit there. I think that 0:01:25.196 --> 0:01:27.276 for if you were a kid and you grew up 0:01:27.276 --> 0:01:30.196 in the you know, the eighties and then and the nineties, 0:01:30.276 --> 0:01:33.356 and you were I think a lot of it has 0:01:33.396 --> 0:01:37.356 to be based on one year demographic to your location, 0:01:38.196 --> 0:01:41.316 because I like where I grew up. Like when you're 0:01:41.356 --> 0:01:47.836 talking like Brooklyn, Queens, Long Island a GTI was was like, okay, 0:01:48.156 --> 0:01:52.676 like it's small, doesn't have a va, it's mind you 0:01:52.956 --> 0:01:56.676 better in every single way than any Mustang Camaro or 0:01:56.876 --> 0:01:58.916 Grand National on the street. It just well, I'm gonna 0:01:58.916 --> 0:02:02.436 get crushed for saying that, but that's the truth. Right. 0:02:02.476 --> 0:02:04.636 It was compact, it was fast, it was this, but 0:02:04.756 --> 0:02:08.956 it didn't have what I was looking for in a car. 0:02:09.356 --> 0:02:13.956 Balls well you can't even say that because it had balls, 0:02:13.996 --> 0:02:17.836 but it had it had different balls, right, it had 0:02:17.916 --> 0:02:21.756 different balls. The balls were we were more compact and 0:02:21.756 --> 0:02:24.676 they were more like ball bearings at tighter to the body, 0:02:25.116 --> 0:02:29.956 tighter to the body. Yes, yeah, I mean I grew 0:02:30.036 --> 0:02:33.556 up in this Midwest axis John Hughes country. You know, 0:02:35.116 --> 0:02:37.676 we didn't want to drive the cars our dads drove 0:02:37.716 --> 0:02:41.516 because our dads had Bonnovilles and Catalinas and right then 0:02:41.796 --> 0:02:46.236 four four twos and you know, so we wanted something 0:02:46.316 --> 0:02:49.596 that was like not homegrown. We wanted, you know, something 0:02:49.636 --> 0:02:52.636 that was a little bit more cosmopolitan in a rice 0:02:53.036 --> 0:02:56.476 of course, of course, yeah, I mean we you know, 0:02:56.516 --> 0:03:00.436 it's interesting like at that time I was on I 0:03:00.476 --> 0:03:02.556 was out on on Long Island and going kind of 0:03:02.596 --> 0:03:04.476 back and forth to the city into Brooklyn and stuff 0:03:04.516 --> 0:03:08.796 like that. And street racing was still very big, right, 0:03:08.836 --> 0:03:11.076 so you still had the guys with the Grand Nationals 0:03:11.116 --> 0:03:13.756 and the Camaros and the Fox Body Mustangs and the 0:03:14.116 --> 0:03:16.396 you know Fbody transams that were just coming out in 0:03:16.396 --> 0:03:18.636 the early nineties where people were freaking out. It was 0:03:18.676 --> 0:03:21.996 always like the I had a good friend, my friend Paul, 0:03:22.076 --> 0:03:24.476 he had a GTI and he would just look at 0:03:24.516 --> 0:03:26.276 us like, why are you wasting time with this? With 0:03:26.356 --> 0:03:29.396 these big stupid things, And we were just like, because 0:03:29.436 --> 0:03:32.356 they're amazing and they're huge, and they're bates and macho 0:03:32.516 --> 0:03:34.756 and stuff like that, and he's like, all right, like 0:03:34.956 --> 0:03:37.756 I don't get it, but that's fine. But there was 0:03:37.756 --> 0:03:44.196 the one thing that the GTI couldn't do will drive burnout, 0:03:45.036 --> 0:03:48.076 And it was like, well, useless, useless car if I 0:03:48.076 --> 0:03:52.996 can't do a donut. Well, my one sort of quival 0:03:53.036 --> 0:03:55.756 with that is if you're on the snow, you could 0:03:55.756 --> 0:03:59.396 handbrake revector really easily. He just jammed that thing up 0:03:59.436 --> 0:04:02.476 and slide around. But it was not like it was 0:04:02.516 --> 0:04:05.796 not power over steer. It was not you know, light 0:04:05.876 --> 0:04:08.716 up the tires and right. A lot of smoke, right, 0:04:09.876 --> 0:04:13.876 but you know, a massively fun car. And I think 0:04:13.956 --> 0:04:17.956 it was. I think the GTI was my first, um 0:04:19.156 --> 0:04:22.236 real revelation into what a front wheel drive car could 0:04:22.276 --> 0:04:25.476 be from a performance perspective. I remember the first time 0:04:25.476 --> 0:04:27.116 I drove my buddies car and I was like, oh 0:04:27.116 --> 0:04:31.276 my god. It was just because there was nothing, There 0:04:31.356 --> 0:04:36.396 was no bad part. Everything was like, oh, this is fabulous. 0:04:36.876 --> 0:04:39.956 And with it with you know, a third of the 0:04:39.956 --> 0:04:43.196 horse power, right, because it was like and the steering 0:04:43.236 --> 0:04:46.596 wasn't that corrupted. There wasn't terrible torque steer because you 0:04:46.676 --> 0:04:49.596 had lower horse power, you weren't like maxing it out, 0:04:49.756 --> 0:04:52.036 and there was good grip up front. Again, I think 0:04:52.036 --> 0:04:53.716 a lot of it has to do with where you 0:04:53.956 --> 0:04:56.836 where you were at the time when the GTI was introduced, right, 0:04:56.876 --> 0:04:59.116 I think that's that's where kind of the impression lies. 0:04:59.636 --> 0:05:02.756 And there they just weren't that many. I mean, I 0:05:02.796 --> 0:05:05.036 was fortunate where I had a couple of buddies and 0:05:05.036 --> 0:05:08.396 I had one whose father was a Volkswagen dealer, and 0:05:08.756 --> 0:05:10.556 so he would always bring g TIS home and he 0:05:10.556 --> 0:05:13.756 would get the latest edition, latest model, and you know, 0:05:13.796 --> 0:05:16.556 the muscle cars were still faster. There's no question about it. 0:05:16.596 --> 0:05:18.356 I mean in a straight line, they were still faster, 0:05:18.756 --> 0:05:21.236 but when it came down to going left and going right, 0:05:21.636 --> 0:05:23.596 oh my god. The GTI and I think at that 0:05:23.636 --> 0:05:26.556 point it had like one ninety five series tires or 0:05:26.636 --> 0:05:29.116 like max of like a two fifteen, which was huge 0:05:29.156 --> 0:05:32.276 back of the day. It was a It was an 0:05:32.276 --> 0:05:33.916 eye opener, and it was I think one of the 0:05:33.916 --> 0:05:37.316 first cars that I was like, Oh, this is this 0:05:37.396 --> 0:05:40.996 is what performance driving is supposed to be. And it 0:05:41.116 --> 0:05:43.116 was like that little light bulb went off. But back 0:05:43.156 --> 0:05:45.916 then I just didn't want to admit it because I 0:05:45.956 --> 0:05:47.516 just didn't want to admit it, you know what I mean. 0:05:47.716 --> 0:05:49.516 My friends would be like, you know what you're talking about, Musto, 0:05:49.596 --> 0:05:52.876 You're the worst. We hate you now, so we'll speaking 0:05:52.916 --> 0:05:57.676 about that like that sort of the credibility factor, you know. 0:05:57.836 --> 0:06:02.076 Like I'm saying, muscle cars are a very specific thing 0:06:02.116 --> 0:06:04.636 because I've gotten roasted so many times for like calling 0:06:04.716 --> 0:06:08.836 the Dodge Charger a muscle car. They're like, it's not 0:06:09.156 --> 0:06:12.236 uscle car, dude, it's got four doors, you know what. 0:06:12.356 --> 0:06:14.916 I think The definition and the muscle car was always 0:06:14.916 --> 0:06:18.756 what it was always intermediate sedan, biggest motor you could 0:06:18.756 --> 0:06:21.556 clump into it. That's a muscle car, right, yeah, and 0:06:21.876 --> 0:06:25.156 kind of a body type that doesn't really exist that 0:06:25.316 --> 0:06:28.316 much anymore or if at all. The two door sedan. 0:06:29.156 --> 0:06:32.316 That's that's exactly correct. Sure. I mean when you saw, 0:06:32.836 --> 0:06:35.316 you know, when the gto first came out, and then 0:06:35.356 --> 0:06:38.036 you had like, you know, the Lamans, and then you 0:06:38.076 --> 0:06:40.756 had the chargers, and you had the uh you know, 0:06:40.836 --> 0:06:45.756 Barracoutas and Mustangs were more pony cars. Um. But Chevelle, 0:06:46.116 --> 0:06:49.996 Monty Carlos things like that, um, they were. They were 0:06:50.076 --> 0:06:54.316 all muscle cars. And I think the definition changed a 0:06:54.356 --> 0:06:56.956 little bit based on the body. Like I remember, like 0:06:56.996 --> 0:06:58.356 one of my cars that I had when I was 0:06:58.396 --> 0:07:00.556 back in New York. I had a sixty nine Pontiac 0:07:00.636 --> 0:07:03.636 Grand Prix SJ with a four twenty eight, and that 0:07:03.636 --> 0:07:06.516 thing was a stump puller. I mean that it was. 0:07:07.156 --> 0:07:10.476 It was gold on gold on old triple Goal and 0:07:10.516 --> 0:07:12.836 it had fourteen inch wheels with wheel covers on it. 0:07:13.276 --> 0:07:15.036 But my god, it had five hundred pounds for you 0:07:15.036 --> 0:07:17.316 to torque and it would roast the back tires for 0:07:17.396 --> 0:07:19.676 like a quarter mile. But people would be like, well, 0:07:19.676 --> 0:07:21.956 it's not a muscle car. I'm like are you insane? 0:07:22.396 --> 0:07:25.676 You know, it's a luxury muscle car, but the definition 0:07:25.876 --> 0:07:29.036 is still very much there. Right, there's a weird orthodoxy 0:07:29.116 --> 0:07:31.916 to the whole thing. No, it's just got to really 0:07:31.956 --> 0:07:35.636 conformed to this thing. And to me it's it's beautiful 0:07:35.716 --> 0:07:39.556 that like the definition has expanded, you know, like I 0:07:39.676 --> 0:07:44.236 get into sometimes they get into like, uh, like I 0:07:44.276 --> 0:07:49.476 got this rs etron GT out here. Oh yeah, that's 0:07:49.916 --> 0:07:53.276 that's a muscle car. That thing's insane. Man. This is 0:07:53.276 --> 0:07:55.556 the one part that people fail to understand, and the 0:07:55.596 --> 0:07:57.876 purists get really mad. They always yell at me all 0:07:57.876 --> 0:08:00.396 the time. I'm like, the Germans make some of the 0:08:00.436 --> 0:08:06.356 best muscle cars ever ever created. So back in again, 0:08:06.396 --> 0:08:08.036 this is back from the East Coast days. I had 0:08:08.036 --> 0:08:11.156 any thirty nine and five Yeah okay, now I don't 0:08:11.196 --> 0:08:14.556 care who you are, five leader V eight, four hundred horsepower, 0:08:14.596 --> 0:08:20.036 manual transmission, d hour slides for days, rear drive, burnouts, donuts. 0:08:21.196 --> 0:08:25.676 That was the quintessential German muscle car, right, Um, the 0:08:25.996 --> 0:08:29.636 fifty five AMG totally, god totally, even the you know 0:08:29.676 --> 0:08:33.796 when the RS six came with the with the V ten, 0:08:33.876 --> 0:08:37.036 with the Lamborghini V ten and oh my god, fabulous, right. 0:08:37.076 --> 0:08:40.316 It took an engine from higher up the food chain, 0:08:40.436 --> 0:08:42.396 higher up the line, from the Lamborghini through it in 0:08:42.436 --> 0:08:46.836 a Savan instant muscle car. Absolutely yeah. And I think 0:08:46.996 --> 0:08:49.676 again the purists get all pissed off because the purists say, 0:08:50.116 --> 0:08:52.316 you know it was it has to be American blah 0:08:52.316 --> 0:08:54.876 blah blah. Now listen, Americans, I'll give we invented the 0:08:54.916 --> 0:08:57.996 muscle car. There's no question about that, right um, and 0:08:58.076 --> 0:09:01.156 we've we we have in a sense kind of perfected 0:09:01.196 --> 0:09:02.916 it and set the blueprint for the rest of the 0:09:02.956 --> 0:09:05.956 world to follow. The rest of the world has their 0:09:05.956 --> 0:09:08.636 own ideas of what a muscle car is and more importantly, 0:09:08.676 --> 0:09:11.236 what it can aspire to be and evolved to be. 0:09:11.956 --> 0:09:14.516 And I think many different countries have put their own 0:09:14.556 --> 0:09:16.836 spin on it. Obviously the Germans with the m cars 0:09:16.876 --> 0:09:20.996 amg stuff stuff like that. Um, you know you look 0:09:21.036 --> 0:09:23.116 at things like you know, the holdings and stuff that 0:09:23.116 --> 0:09:25.756 they had in Australia and granted their their gms, but 0:09:25.836 --> 0:09:28.516 they're straight muscle cars. The U that's a muscle truar 0:09:28.676 --> 0:09:32.996 like totally you can't argue that. And like I'll I'll 0:09:33.076 --> 0:09:35.196 die on that hill. I'll go up against anybody that 0:09:35.236 --> 0:09:37.436 wants to fight me on that. I love that, But 0:09:37.756 --> 0:09:39.956 muscle I also love it. You're like, you know, it's 0:09:39.956 --> 0:09:44.036 gotta do donuts, it's gotta be able to it's it's 0:09:44.036 --> 0:09:48.116 gotta break traction, right, that's yeah, yeah, Like everybody, I 0:09:48.236 --> 0:09:50.156 used to have a I've had a couple of transams, 0:09:50.316 --> 0:09:53.996 and my last trans am was I had an eighty 0:09:54.036 --> 0:09:57.076 one three h one Turbot transam, which was a proper 0:09:57.116 --> 0:09:59.716 ship box, and then I had a seventy nine with 0:09:59.756 --> 0:10:02.036 a four h three in it, And I'm like, they're 0:10:02.036 --> 0:10:04.236 not muscle cars. Everybody's like, you got such a kickass 0:10:04.276 --> 0:10:06.476 muscle car. I'm like, it won't break the tires loose 0:10:06.516 --> 0:10:10.516 to save its life. So no, I'm like, one hundred 0:10:10.516 --> 0:10:13.716 and eighty five horsepower does not constitute a muscle car. Now. 0:10:14.556 --> 0:10:19.436 Now like a four fifty five, Like a bullnose trans 0:10:19.436 --> 0:10:23.996 am with a four fifty five talking superduty. Okay, I 0:10:24.036 --> 0:10:27.676 can get behind that. But you know, they there was 0:10:27.716 --> 0:10:30.556 this time period in the kind of the later seventies 0:10:30.596 --> 0:10:33.676 up to the early eighties where it was stickers. It 0:10:33.716 --> 0:10:36.636 was bravado from a visual perspective, but there was nothing 0:10:36.756 --> 0:10:41.236 under the hood. So they transformed into really nice boulevard cruisers, 0:10:41.396 --> 0:10:45.276 and that's that's okay, um, But I would never put 0:10:45.316 --> 0:10:48.356 those into the muscle car category. I just wouldn't, so, 0:10:48.876 --> 0:10:52.756 you know, um, but there, you know, I think the 0:10:52.836 --> 0:10:55.356 muscle cars are such an ingrained part of American history 0:10:55.796 --> 0:10:59.036 and of the automotive world as well. And you you know, 0:10:59.076 --> 0:11:01.676 back in the late nineties, early two thousands, when the 0:11:01.716 --> 0:11:03.876 import craze kind of came on, right and you had 0:11:03.956 --> 0:11:06.676 kind of fast and the furious, that was such a 0:11:06.756 --> 0:11:10.196 pivotal moment, I think because it introduced you know, I 0:11:10.636 --> 0:11:12.476 can't really say kids, because you know, it was more 0:11:12.476 --> 0:11:15.716 than twenty years ago, but it changed the perception and 0:11:15.756 --> 0:11:17.596 introduced when the muscle car was to a whole new 0:11:17.636 --> 0:11:24.116 generation of people, right. And I remember taking a Focus 0:11:24.276 --> 0:11:28.756 RS from Europe before it was on sale the US, 0:11:28.796 --> 0:11:33.596 so the rsum in that that generation was never on 0:11:33.636 --> 0:11:35.316 sale in the US. It was a special car that 0:11:35.356 --> 0:11:37.916 Ford had there, and I took it to the Pomona 0:11:38.396 --> 0:11:42.156 Roster Show. Oh my god, and people just like wanted 0:11:42.196 --> 0:11:45.276 to light it on fire. They were so pissed. Right, 0:11:45.836 --> 0:11:48.836 But that's good. How are you doing right? Right? That's good? 0:11:48.876 --> 0:11:52.236 You have to you gotta shake people up. And like, 0:11:52.316 --> 0:11:55.636 I never understood the whole purist thing. I never understood 0:11:55.676 --> 0:11:57.836 the whole like I only like Ford or only like 0:11:57.916 --> 0:12:00.276 GM or only like Porsche. And I'm like, well that 0:12:00.436 --> 0:12:02.836 you just want tacos every single day for the rest 0:12:02.836 --> 0:12:06.516 of your life? What is the exactly why? What? Right 0:12:06.596 --> 0:12:10.556 is spice of life? It totally is. And it's you know, 0:12:10.636 --> 0:12:14.036 these people out there that just they want to die 0:12:14.036 --> 0:12:16.636 on this mountain of Ford or Chevy. I'm like, get 0:12:16.636 --> 0:12:19.116 a get over yourself, man, what are you thinking? No, 0:12:19.276 --> 0:12:21.916 it is so provincial. It's like that's all they've been 0:12:21.916 --> 0:12:25.356 exposed to, so like, and they don't want to open 0:12:25.356 --> 0:12:30.036 their minds to like, hey, maybe you know, uh bmw 0:12:30.356 --> 0:12:32.356 M five is the greatest thing you've ever driven and 0:12:32.396 --> 0:12:34.916 it fits you perfectly and that's you know, you would 0:12:34.916 --> 0:12:37.756 love it. But they never open themselves up to that experience. 0:12:38.636 --> 0:12:42.596 And I think you know, automobiles are Automobiles are very 0:12:42.676 --> 0:12:44.996 much like food, right. You have to be willing to 0:12:45.036 --> 0:12:46.836 go outside your comfort zone. You have to be able 0:12:46.876 --> 0:12:49.876 to try something. If you don't like it, that's okay, 0:12:50.876 --> 0:12:52.836 you don't. You don't have to like it. I don't 0:12:52.876 --> 0:12:55.156 have to like sushi. I don't have to like steak, 0:12:55.876 --> 0:12:59.796 but I'm gonna try it to make an exact exactly. No, 0:13:00.036 --> 0:13:04.396 you got to it's it's a life half lived. Otherwise, Yes, 0:13:04.556 --> 0:13:09.436 I completely completely agree. Um, you know, but the cool 0:13:09.436 --> 0:13:12.716 part is now at the technology everything is evolving to 0:13:12.716 --> 0:13:16.476 the point where, um, you know, speed is no longer 0:13:16.916 --> 0:13:21.156 speed is no longer really relevant because because with evs 0:13:21.196 --> 0:13:25.636 and stuff like that, you have this, you know, petrol 0:13:25.676 --> 0:13:27.836 is never going to catch up to evs. We know that, 0:13:28.156 --> 0:13:31.436 you know, when you're going zero to sixty and two 0:13:31.476 --> 0:13:34.876 seconds in an EV I don't know if that's I 0:13:34.876 --> 0:13:37.836 wouldn't categorize at any type of a muscle car because 0:13:37.836 --> 0:13:40.716 it's you know, like a tesla, because you lose the 0:13:40.836 --> 0:13:46.876 visceralness of it. Yeah, no vibration, no sound, Yeah, And 0:13:46.916 --> 0:13:49.556 I think it it has to have some type of 0:13:49.596 --> 0:13:54.676 theater behind it. And if there's no theater, there's no anything. 0:13:54.756 --> 0:13:57.356 And it was last year we had gone to an 0:13:57.356 --> 0:13:59.436 event up at Sonoma Raceway and it was one of 0:13:59.436 --> 0:14:01.996 the first kind of e events, you know, only events, 0:14:01.996 --> 0:14:06.276 performance events, and the autocross was going on behind me, 0:14:06.356 --> 0:14:08.196 and the drag races were going on in front of me. 0:14:08.676 --> 0:14:10.356 The problem them is you would hear you would hear 0:14:10.436 --> 0:14:15.316 tires squeal, right, and that's it. And there were beautiful 0:14:15.356 --> 0:14:17.876 cars ripping around the Trace Racetrack, but as soon as 0:14:17.916 --> 0:14:20.996 you turn around, you could ignore it. And as soon 0:14:21.036 --> 0:14:24.756 as you could ignore it, it disappears. It's forgettable. And 0:14:24.836 --> 0:14:27.036 if you really like cars, if you like cars for 0:14:27.116 --> 0:14:29.956 what they offer, Um, I think you have to have 0:14:30.036 --> 0:14:34.516 that that theater in there somewhere, that kind of it 0:14:34.996 --> 0:14:38.276 keeps you interested. More of my chat with Mike Musto 0:14:38.836 --> 0:14:50.516 after the break, we're back with Mike Musto. You know, 0:14:50.756 --> 0:14:53.916 I think from a muscle car perspective, though we are 0:14:54.036 --> 0:14:57.356 at the last. Um, I think we are at the 0:14:57.396 --> 0:14:59.516 last bashion and muscle car it is. And the reason 0:14:59.556 --> 0:15:04.756 I say that is that I don't know I want it. 0:15:04.836 --> 0:15:08.036 So Dodge is coming out with an electric muscle car, right, 0:15:08.076 --> 0:15:11.756 the muscle car. Yeah. Um, if anybody's gonna knock it 0:15:11.836 --> 0:15:15.236 out of the park, it's gonna be there. They have to, 0:15:15.556 --> 0:15:18.076 they can. They have to knock it out of the 0:15:18.116 --> 0:15:22.436 park or it's finished. It's dead. Right. You have to 0:15:22.476 --> 0:15:25.716 throw so much power of that thing to overcome the 0:15:25.756 --> 0:15:28.316 weight of the battery, the mass of the battery. I'm 0:15:28.396 --> 0:15:30.876 kind of excited to see what happens there because it 0:15:30.916 --> 0:15:32.916 has to be an excess of a thousand horse power. 0:15:32.996 --> 0:15:34.756 It just it has to be that. But it's got 0:15:34.756 --> 0:15:37.556 to have theater. It has to it has to have theater. 0:15:37.716 --> 0:15:39.436 Like if I don't walk up to it, I'm like, 0:15:40.036 --> 0:15:41.996 all right, this is this is kind of cool. And 0:15:42.036 --> 0:15:44.036 if they hit the start a button and there's no 0:15:44.196 --> 0:15:47.876 sound and I will listen, I'm all for artificial rumbling. 0:15:47.916 --> 0:15:52.996 I don't care what you do, but make me go, oh, 0:15:53.036 --> 0:15:58.156 that's okay. Let me get something like a scalded banshee. Yeah, 0:15:58.276 --> 0:16:00.636 give me, give me something, Give me something that makes 0:16:00.636 --> 0:16:04.436 me understand, Like I want to get into that and 0:16:04.516 --> 0:16:06.036 I want to drive it, and I want to have 0:16:06.156 --> 0:16:07.876 that theater and I want the hairs on the back 0:16:07.916 --> 0:16:10.036 of my neck to stand out right. That's I don't know. 0:16:10.156 --> 0:16:11.556 I don't know how you do that with a NV 0:16:11.996 --> 0:16:14.236 because I've never experienced one that does that yet. I 0:16:14.316 --> 0:16:17.156 just just have it, I know, right, I mean they 0:16:17.236 --> 0:16:21.316 go really quick and straight line like Tesla plaid, kind 0:16:21.356 --> 0:16:24.436 of amazing. But then it tapers off and it doesn't 0:16:24.476 --> 0:16:28.156 make a noise, and you know, I don't know they 0:16:28.276 --> 0:16:31.156 got to do it otherwise. Yeah, you know, are these 0:16:31.316 --> 0:16:37.156 hellcat bates the last of the crazy ass? I think so. 0:16:37.356 --> 0:16:41.196 I think that, you know, Dodge, they played it right, 0:16:41.396 --> 0:16:43.516 and they played it right due to lack of funds. 0:16:43.836 --> 0:16:47.356 Yeah right, that's sactly GM and four and had all 0:16:47.356 --> 0:16:50.556 the money. Dodge was like, we really don't have any money, 0:16:50.596 --> 0:16:53.596 but we've got this monster motor and it's been their 0:16:53.676 --> 0:16:57.876 game since the nineteen sixties, right, I know. And they 0:16:57.996 --> 0:17:03.196 have this old um basically Mercedes E class chassis that 0:17:03.276 --> 0:17:06.396 they inherited from Diameward Chrysler that goes back to ninety six, 0:17:06.516 --> 0:17:09.916 and they just keep evolving and working. Work sometimes like 0:17:10.116 --> 0:17:14.396 a lack of resources is the surest way to get 0:17:14.476 --> 0:17:18.716 something cool or innovative, like Mini for example, they had 0:17:18.756 --> 0:17:22.636 like no money when they started out. Yeah, but the 0:17:22.716 --> 0:17:26.636 marketing was incredible because they had to They had restrictions 0:17:26.636 --> 0:17:28.556 and they had to be smart about it. And I 0:17:28.596 --> 0:17:31.396 think you're sort of seeing the same thing there, like, 0:17:31.836 --> 0:17:34.876 you know, what do we got, guys. We've got this big, 0:17:35.036 --> 0:17:40.276 stupid gas guzzling VA. We've got this old expensive rickety 0:17:40.436 --> 0:17:45.556 Mercedes chassis. Let's just make it nuts. And they've been ridiculous. Yeah, 0:17:45.556 --> 0:17:47.876 and let's call m Musco because he's gonna love it's back. 0:17:48.076 --> 0:17:51.836 And everyone does. Everyone does, And I mean we've got 0:17:51.876 --> 0:17:55.676 a serious healthcare problem in Detroit. We do. They're everywhere, 0:17:55.716 --> 0:17:58.516 and they're a loud as fuck and they're they're incredible. 0:17:58.556 --> 0:18:00.716 But you can I can hear them from my house. 0:18:00.956 --> 0:18:03.956 You hear them ripping down telegraph. It's it's such a 0:18:04.036 --> 0:18:06.916 distinct sound. But do you do you remember in the 0:18:06.916 --> 0:18:09.916 eighties when the fox Bodies were out, Yeah, five LX 0:18:09.956 --> 0:18:13.076 Fox Body GT. You could hear you could hear a 0:18:13.116 --> 0:18:16.356 five leader Mustang from seven eight blocks away, and you 0:18:16.476 --> 0:18:20.196 knew exactly what you're like us Mustang. I know exactly 0:18:20.196 --> 0:18:23.676 what it was exactly. It just had that sonic signature 0:18:23.796 --> 0:18:26.436 that like you could tell what an air called Porsche 0:18:26.516 --> 0:18:29.356 sound right, that's right, you know. And but when that 0:18:29.796 --> 0:18:32.596 like you hear a hell caap like rip into the 0:18:32.676 --> 0:18:37.276 higher revs. It is it's percussive and it's crazy and 0:18:37.356 --> 0:18:40.876 it sounds like somebody just smashing through a wall. I'll 0:18:40.916 --> 0:18:42.916 do it. It It sounds like war. And I mean that's 0:18:42.956 --> 0:18:46.716 the most addictive, like that the super Charge, Like I 0:18:46.756 --> 0:18:50.916 give them credit, man, I really do because they they 0:18:50.996 --> 0:18:53.636 just capitalized on it and they said, you know what, 0:18:54.076 --> 0:18:57.236 bigger bad, It's like the bionic car, right, bigger bad 0:18:57.236 --> 0:18:59.276 and stronger, faster or whatever that slogan was back in 0:18:59.316 --> 0:19:02.996 the day. And they've they've they've they've recaptured what the 0:19:03.076 --> 0:19:06.756 muscle car was, right, Mustang and Camaro morphed into straight 0:19:06.796 --> 0:19:12.676 sports cars like cars M three nine eleven fighters, you know, 0:19:13.036 --> 0:19:17.196 Zo one Camaro unbelievable track car punch is so funny 0:19:17.196 --> 0:19:21.956 above its way, it's it is a true racing car. Yeah, 0:19:22.036 --> 0:19:24.356 it's not a drag car. It's like it can do 0:19:24.436 --> 0:19:27.756 everything right where the where they I think that the 0:19:28.476 --> 0:19:30.716 Dodge cars are just straight out like nope, straight line, 0:19:30.876 --> 0:19:33.636 We're good. Yeah, we're gonna be done here. Well yeah, 0:19:33.676 --> 0:19:36.036 and I mean you do they turn? Sure? I mean 0:19:36.116 --> 0:19:38.036 I I've raced them like I race them in one 0:19:38.116 --> 0:19:40.276 Lap of America and then many many times and like 0:19:41.356 --> 0:19:44.836 you know, you got forty five pounds, right, So at 0:19:44.876 --> 0:19:47.636 some point physics just throws the middle finger up at 0:19:47.676 --> 0:19:50.836 you and goes, yeah, that ain't happen, Like good effort, 0:19:51.196 --> 0:19:56.636 that right, right, We're gonna try, but probably not gonna work. Yeah, 0:19:57.316 --> 0:20:00.316 And that's that's okay, because again, don't waste your time 0:20:00.356 --> 0:20:06.436 putting dive planes on that Challenger. No absolutely, not, no, no, no, 0:20:06.516 --> 0:20:11.396 just just just just go straight. It's so straight, do burnouts, 0:20:11.436 --> 0:20:14.636 do whatever you want, like, you know, it is amazing, 0:20:15.436 --> 0:20:17.756 But that's a muscle car to me, right, And there's 0:20:17.796 --> 0:20:20.396 still still a market for It's still a huge appetite 0:20:20.436 --> 0:20:23.836 for it. And the amazing thing is muscle cars were 0:20:24.116 --> 0:20:28.316 such white guy stuff for so long, like the whitest 0:20:28.356 --> 0:20:31.836 white guy stuff. Oh yeah, and now it's so multicultural. 0:20:31.916 --> 0:20:34.276 It's great. It's the great equalizer. And I've always said 0:20:34.276 --> 0:20:36.956 the automobile is the greatest equalizer in the world. I mean, 0:20:37.036 --> 0:20:39.836 I see it on Woodward, I see it on six 0:20:40.116 --> 0:20:43.556 ninety six. I see guys out in Challengers and Chargers, 0:20:43.596 --> 0:20:47.196 Hellcats and demons, just ripping it up, having the time 0:20:47.316 --> 0:20:50.356 of their lives. And that's really what it's about. And 0:20:50.636 --> 0:20:52.916 you know, like, if you were to think about what 0:20:53.036 --> 0:20:56.316 a midsize speaking of this evolution idea, like if you 0:20:56.476 --> 0:21:00.516 think about what a midsize sedan is, right in the sixties, 0:21:00.596 --> 0:21:06.796 what was a mid size sedan. It was two door, small, 0:21:06.876 --> 0:21:10.956 V eight or V six, rear wheel drive. Yeah, I 0:21:10.996 --> 0:21:14.236 mean like my charge, my sixty eight Charger was an 0:21:14.276 --> 0:21:17.196 intermediate that was a mid size, right, So what's a 0:21:17.276 --> 0:21:24.156 midsize car? Now midsize car is drive hybrid, right, right, 0:21:24.196 --> 0:21:25.876 but we still call it like, oh, that's a mid 0:21:25.956 --> 0:21:29.956 size family car. Right, But it's changed so much, changed 0:21:29.956 --> 0:21:32.956 with the times. Corvette's another great example, Like if you 0:21:32.996 --> 0:21:36.396 think about the first you know, C one was at 0:21:36.436 --> 0:21:41.796 blue flame six, right, yep, very very h kind of 0:21:42.276 --> 0:21:46.156 modest performance car, more like a Thunderbird's right, that's right. 0:21:46.316 --> 0:21:48.796 And now look at like now it's a McLaren theater, 0:21:49.276 --> 0:21:53.196 but it's still Corvette. Yeah, well it's it's the evolutionary 0:21:53.236 --> 0:21:56.436 process is a wonderful thing. And I think people they 0:21:56.516 --> 0:22:00.636 get hung up on generally one specific model that was 0:22:00.716 --> 0:22:03.116 relevant at the time it came out to the time 0:22:03.316 --> 0:22:06.516 that they were at in their life. Right, it made 0:22:06.556 --> 0:22:09.716 an impression upon them in one circumstance of whatever reason. 0:22:09.756 --> 0:22:12.236 It just kind of red stamped in their head like 0:22:12.316 --> 0:22:14.196 this is the only one that is good and whatever 0:22:14.236 --> 0:22:18.716 the case is. Um, But evolution is a wonderful thing. 0:22:19.276 --> 0:22:22.476 When you see how these manufacturers have evolved these cars. 0:22:23.196 --> 0:22:28.276 It's okay that a definition changes, It's Okay, that technology advances, 0:22:28.516 --> 0:22:30.716 and it's okay. If you don't like it, that's yeah, 0:22:31.476 --> 0:22:35.156 that's fine, but you do have to accept it, right. 0:22:35.276 --> 0:22:39.796 Anybody who doesn't accept it basically is just lying to themselves, right, 0:22:39.836 --> 0:22:42.756 They're just like, how many vehicles can get away with 0:22:42.796 --> 0:22:45.796 not changing? I can only think of one, the Jeep. 0:22:46.636 --> 0:22:50.196 Everything else, right, I mean nine to eleven has to change. 0:22:50.276 --> 0:22:54.956 Nine to eleven, that's right. Cool. You know, the accord 0:22:54.996 --> 0:22:58.556 has had to change dramatically, hybridization and all that. You know, 0:22:58.716 --> 0:23:01.556 everything has to keep evolving or else it just it 0:23:01.596 --> 0:23:04.836 falls off the face of the the earth. Yeah. Well, this 0:23:04.916 --> 0:23:08.156 is amazing Mike. As always, you always deliver. This is 0:23:08.676 --> 0:23:11.396