WEBVTT - Out Of Body Experience 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.840 Welcome to The Hidden Gin, a production of I Heart 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:30.520 Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minkey. Hi, and 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:34.120 welcome to this very special bonus series of The Hidden Gin. 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.159 The interviews. In these episodes, you'll hear me talk to 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:41.479 people from all walks of life who have had GIN experiences, 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.800 are drawn to the stories of Gin, and draw lessons 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:49.480 from these stories. You'll hear from artists, scholars, writers, journalists, 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:53.040 and Gin exorcists, and even from me as I discuss 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.800 how and why this series came about in a very 0:00:55.840 --> 0:01:00.680 personal conversation with my husband. Thanks for listening and enjoy. 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.160 I am so excited for this conversation this week because 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.080 I'm getting to have a really fun conversation with a 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:11.479 good friend of mine, somebody I love and admire, um, 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:13.800 and somebody who's kind of like a co conspirator in 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:16.440 the true crime space, UM, and somebody I'm a fan of. 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:19.680 Patrick Heinz Patrick Hynes. For those of you know who 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:23.840 Patrick is. You probably discovered him on his incredibly popular 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:28.280 podcast called True Crime Obsessed. But Patrick has been in 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.040 the podcast business way longer than that. He was podcasting 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.160 back in two thousand and thirteen, well before everybody else was. 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.759 He was the founder of the Theater Podcast Productions, and 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:40.560 he's also the creator, co producer and host of The 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.680 Theater People Podcast, a very cool podcast featuring full length 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:47.000 interviews of Tony Winners of Broadway Legends and today's brightest 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.160 theater stars. Now, since then, Patrick has moved on into 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.640 the true crime space, really just taking it over with 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:56.040 True Crime Obsessed, his co host Jillian Pensylvali and his 0:01:56.160 --> 0:02:01.080 fairly new show called Obsessed with Disappeared Um, which I 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:03.720 love both of them. I follow them religiously to my 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.440 favorite shows. But we're not gonna be talking about true 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:08.120 crime today. Well okay, maybe just a little bit. We 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.520 will be talking about some some some intersections between true 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:15.000 crime and the supernatural world. We're gonna be talking about 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:17.800 the fact that Patrick, throughout his whole life, has experienced 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:22.519 all kinds of really interesting, supernatural and unexplicable phenomenon. Every 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.480 time he's talked about this online, I'm like just wrapped. 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:27.440 And I was like, when I started this podcast, I said, 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:29.680 you know what, I gotta talk to Patrick about all this, 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:31.400 and I also got to tell them all about the 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.120 gin because he knows nothing about them. So let's do 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:36.160 this let's talk to maybe one of my favorite people 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:40.520 in all of podcasting, Patrick Hines. Hi and welcome Patrick. 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:42.799 Thank you so much for joining me this week. Hi, 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:47.239 my love, it's it's so good to be your face. 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:49.200 Like I know, I was just gonna say that, I 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:51.160 get to like sit in my little studio and actually 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:54.360 I get to look at your glorious beauty. High you 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:56.200 know what I gotta say, Listeners, I'm sorry you don't 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:58.560 get to actually witness us. You're gonna get the audio, 0:02:58.600 --> 0:02:59.960 but we get to see each other and that's fun. 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:02.799 And my hair is out of control right now. I 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:05.160 don't know you should like hang up on me. I'm 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.240 looking at my own hair in this thing, and like 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:10.440 I have not, I truly not had a haircut. Personal hygiene, 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:13.560 personal hygiene in the time of quarantine, personal grooming. It's 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:18.360 all optional. My eyebrows are about to grow together. At 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.600 least about the one eyebrow. You would have the most 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:26.240 glorious unit one you would make it cheat, I would say, 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.079 the face mask would really you know, like highlight it. Yeah, 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:33.160 that's but thank you so much again. And I know 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:34.600 here's the thing, this is the this is the fun 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:36.520 thing for me. Because Patrick was like, how do I 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:38.000 prepare for this? I was like, no, no, no, just 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.920 come on, I'm gonna And the other thing is that Patrick, 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:44.320 you know, I think nothing about this project and nothing 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:46.440 with the subject. But there's a reason I wanted you on. 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:48.520 So let me tell you a little bit about what's happening. 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:50.320 And so you are going to be part of my 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:53.840 Patreon series that goes along with the main Gin series 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.000 that by the time this airs, has already been airing. 0:03:56.600 --> 0:04:00.280 Um so, do you have any idea what a GIN is? No? 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:04.080 I think that you and I talked about this, maybe 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.960 even a year ago. Um, when you were like, this 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:08.840 was beginning to bubble in your brain. Is something you 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.480 might want to do? I feel like it's the word 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.680 folklore comes to mind. But that's as much. That's as 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:17.800 far as I've got. Okay, So let me tell you 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:19.320 a little bit about the world of jin. Of course 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:23.080 you better be listened to my podcast by time. Are 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:28.120 you kidding? Already pre subscribed? Awesome? Um? So basically, yeah, 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.919 So the realm of Gin is there's tons of folklore 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:34.240 and legend and stories and like the but it's actually 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:36.719 much deeper than that because it's a tied to scripture. 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:40.360 It's tied to Jewish picture even and it's even pre 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:44.200 it's even pre Jewish Muslim Christian scripture, like the Jin 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:47.039 are referred to like forty times in the Muslim scripture. 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:49.200 Like that's how serious we take it, Like we're like, wow, 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:52.400 these things are real, and it is a huge universe 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:54.599 of them. I mean forget like any kind of like 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:59.080 Marvel universe of characters. Like, it's a huge universe of jin. 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:01.560 There's a million of them. Everybody has their personal one. 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:03.720 Is what You've got one with you right now. It's 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.640 gonna born and die with Yeah. Yeah, they're freaky um, 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:08.960 and so there's Jewish demonology tied with it. Then it 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:11.400 goes all the way back to antiquity like in Babylonia 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:13.960 and Assyria and like they were worshiped at one time. 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:17.080 It's freaking But the way that people who believe in 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:18.719 the Gym think about them is that they're kind of 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.760 responsible all this phenomenal. We can't figure out ghosts and 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:25.240 crop circles and whatever. It's it's it's all we all 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:27.039 just categorize it as, oh, it's a jin, it's a 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:29.719 gin ff thing with us whatever. Oh, I love it. 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:34.760 So when you told me you've had multiple like supernatural experiences, 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.200 I'm like, in my head, I'm like, oh that's Jim 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:43.039 Patrick has no idea. I give mess mugin. That's so interesting. 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:45.320 I when you say that they're born with you and 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.480 they die with you. I I've always felt that it's 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.880 it's weird. It's like, you know, I felt like you 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:56.839 have some presents or something. Yeah. Yeah, Like I think 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:00.440 about the handful of like supernatural experiences I've had in 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:03.440 my life are like probably number in like the eight 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:07.040 to ten. You know that's good. That's a lot. Yeah, 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.080 Well one is happening right now. Girl. I So we're 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.400 at our office and we have this door that we 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:15.400 like our office has a couple of different rooms in it, 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:18.480 and there's this door that keeps opening by itself, and 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:22.560 it's so it's just it's so freaky and like there's 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:28.520 no it's just the door. It's not like a traditional 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.240 door that you can like close and you hear it 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:33.480 like lap but like you pull it close. It's kind 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:35.800 of like a cheap, flimsy door. So maybe there's just 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.039 something wrong with the door, but like you can hear 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.680 it click shut, and then like when you're not looking, 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:45.720 it just opens by itself. It's very freaky. Well, this 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:48.160 is this this kind of like the latest phenomena. But I 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:49.960 want to go I want to like take Patrick back 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:52.640 to like a little Patrick. Yeah, I want to hear 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:54.479 about Okay, first of all, were you raised in any 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:56.320 kind of like a faith tradition or any kind of 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.599 like any kind of tradition that actually would like you know, 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.760 kind of accounts for some of your like ideas around 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:06.800 these things. Um So, so my mom is a lesbian. 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:12.000 I was raised in like the lesbian but my mom 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:15.720 was like a very is a very staunch Christian, and 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:18.920 she was a Catholic forever. Loved being Catholic. I was 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.600 an ultra boy forever. I really enjoyed it as a 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:24.160 young person, do I know. I like, I'm a very 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.400 spiritual person. I totally believe in God, but like I'm 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.880 not a religious person at all. And um but my 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:32.920 mom was very I mean this is a little bit 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:37.040 like lesbian nineties lesbian style. My mom was very into 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.640 like crystals and energy and go, like, you know, any 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:44.000 time I had any sort of experience, my mom totally 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.400 believed me, you know, And I would always tell her 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:49.600 about it. Yeah, yeah, and so like I mean, from 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:51.560 the time that I was a little kid, I would 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.440 I guess I would say, this sounds so corny, but 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:59.280 like I would have weird little premonitions, nothing major, but 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:01.720 I would sort of like a song, Like we'd be 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:03.520 in the car and like we'd be listening to the 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.520 radio and I'd be humming a song and it would 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:08.480 be like the next song that would come on or whatever. 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:12.040 But then I would start having like weird I know, 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:15.080 I started having weird like not weird, but I started 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:19.000 having like dreams and sort of like, um, I mean 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:21.160 when I was in like middle school, high school, I 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:24.200 would have like out of body experiences sometimes and it 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:26.720 would be like it was it would be like when 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:28.880 I would okay, let me ask this. Those out of 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:31.560 bodies were those something that you like wanted to have 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.880 and ord because look, I had a phase when I 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:36.720 was younger. Ilse like I heard about this thing and 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:38.640 I would try to make it happen. It didn't happen 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.400 for me. Yeah, I know, so I I did not 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.160 want it to happen. I wanted it to not happen. 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.280 And I had a couple of bouts of sleep paralysis, 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:49.559 which I don't know if you know about this, but 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.280 like like there were there were a condful of times 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.520 when I was like, you know, I would say probably 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.480 fourteen or fifteen, where I always took naps in the 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:59.520 afternoon because I would come home from school and then 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:01.360 I would have like drama club at like six o'clock, 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:02.840 so I would like take a nap in between. I 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.640 know it's such a little theater gay um, but like 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:07.480 I would that would be the time, like if I 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:09.400 was to have an out of body experience, it would 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:12.800 be then. And I remember one time experiencing this about 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:17.240 of like sleep paralysis where I was awake but completely 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:19.720 unable to move, and I saw things in my room, 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:22.480 like I saw like there was a woman who was 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:26.480 wearing like it looked like like almost like colonial garb, 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:33.160 like floating in my room. And I don't know if 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.880 it has to do with like puberty. I've read some 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.720 stuff that like that that that like that there is 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:42.079 something about that. But I remember talking to my mom 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:44.160 about this stuff. At the time. I saw a ghost 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.319 around the same time. It was not a scary experience, 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:50.000 but like I shared a room with my brother and 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:51.920 I remember waking up in the middle of the night 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.360 and there was this woman dressed sort of as a 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.800 nun that was sort of standing at the top of 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:00.480 our stairs, um in the like in the like in 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:01.680 the I don't know what you call that, like at 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:03.320 the top of the stairs. And I could see it 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:06.679 out of my bedroom. It wasn't scary. She came into 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:09.600 the room and like said, I know. She came into 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:11.440 the room and sat down on my brother's bed, and 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.040 for some reason, I was not scared, and she sort 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:15.800 of motioned for me to like lie back down, and 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.079 I did, and she started like stroking my brother's hair. 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:24.079 I know. But I remember talking to my mom about 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:25.880 this stuff, and my mom was saying, She's like, I 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:28.679 think that you're like a sensitive person like you you 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:30.680 experienced these things that she was saying, if you want 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.280 this to stop, you have to pray about it. You 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.640 have to pray and ask the universe or whatever God 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:38.360 you believe in to make it stop. And I did, 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:40.800 and it did, you know, it did for the most part. 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.200 I do think. I think um and and people do 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:46.880 believe like the veil for some is thinner right because 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.960 you are open to the possibility but you're also much 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:52.840 more sensitive and receptive to everything that's happening around you, 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:54.839 and you're willing to understand it in a certain way. 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.240 It's like how some people can actually be hypnotized for 0:10:57.240 --> 0:11:00.160 real and some people dust cannot. We were just looking 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:05.160 about this yesterday. Is hypnotis real? Is that? Is it real? Yeah? Yeah, 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.480 it can. It can absolutely truly be used. I know 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:09.880 it sounds so crazy, but people have been able to 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:14.640 retrieve memories, real memories, actual like memories that I have, 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:18.400 like corroborated memories, verified that they couldn't before. Or they've 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.880 been able to remember even details like in criminal cases 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:24.600 of crimes or something. But it doesn't work for everybody. 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.000 I mean, you know, obviously our brains one of these 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.320 big old sponges. They see everything and hear stuff, and 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.440 it's it's in there somewhere. We just can't read it right, 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.439 because when you hear people under hypnosis and their voices 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:39.079 sound different, it's so creepy. Yeah. Now, I've talked to 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.840 people who have been hypnotized, and for for the for 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.439 the people who worked like I've tried to get hypnotized 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:45.880 because I was like I want to do this. It 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:47.920 didn't work for me because I was just too hyper 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:51.040 aware of you know, It's like it's like wanting it 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.480 to happen, wanting it to work. Yeah, I can't relax 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:55.400 in a bath because I'm like, you know, I'm sit 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:57.319 there and I'm like too hyper aware of everything that's 0:11:57.320 --> 0:11:59.200 going on. My brain won't shut off. But I have 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.920 talked to people who really did experience it for real 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:04.520 and where it was able to help them act three um, 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.600 like through some therapy scenarios and stuff. So okay, so 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:09.720 I want to talk a lot. So you said it stopped, 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:11.840 So then like, for what month of your filthhood you 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.640 didn't experience it or what happened? I would say that 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.400 I felt more in control of it, you know what 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:19.040 I mean? Like I would say that like when I 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:23.480 was a kid, especially around my puberty years, like between 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:27.120 the ages of twelve to fifteen or sixteen, I feel 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:28.880 like this stuff was happening all the time, and it 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:31.839 felt like scary to me. And I kind of like 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:34.360 your brother too, or your mother too, or anybody else 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.280 in the family or just do do you know? That's 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:40.440 such an interesting question. I I have never we've never 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:44.600 talked about it. I would imagine that my mom, I 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:48.640 don't know, I've never God, Robbie, I'm now having this 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:53.120 realization of like, wow, a little bit self possessed, Arni 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:55.920 Patricks that like, you love to share these stories, but 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:58.319 you've never asked your own family if they've None of 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:00.400 my family has ever come up and said like any 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:02.839 like anything like this has ever happened to them, Because 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:07.360 I feel like your mom's response is almost the kind 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:09.360 of response that somebody would have if if they get it, 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:13.040 like they're like, oh yeah, yeah, like I totally yeah. 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.240 I mean, you know, my mom has always said that 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.760 her mother, who I never I guess I met her 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:22.440 when I was very very young, but I don't have 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:25.079 any memories of her. But she lived in Manhattan, and 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:26.680 I live in Manhattan. My mom's mom was like a 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:28.800 New Yorker, like you know, like loved New York and 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.000 the whole thing. My mom says that she feels like 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.000 her mother is like with me. So when you said that, 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:34.439 like they're born with you and they die with you 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:38.520 like that, that sort of struck me. Like I feel 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:40.880 like my my grandmother, who I've never met, I feel 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:42.960 like she is with me sometimes, Like there are times 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.199 that I I went to a medium once and had 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:48.680 like a reading and she was like, yeah, her Ruth, 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:50.880 like she said her name, and I was like, oh 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.880 my god, it's true. And she's like you should talk 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:55.480 to her, like you should talk to her because like 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.959 that makes it stronger, you know, don't know. Yeah, I 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.040 talked to her. She's probably in this room high room. 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:05.680 Hey girl opening the door in the other room. Okay, 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:11.600 So okay, the gosh well hopefully when I mean ruthe 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:13.559 but but okay, so the Ruth might be with you, 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:15.480 but there might be something else with you too. So 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:17.280 the gym that's born with you and dies with you, 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:21.760 that's like your own personal thing. But the ghost phenomena 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:25.440 of people like lingering with us, that's also. God I've seen, 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.520 I mean, I've seen people who have passed like in 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:30.560 my dreams that are so real that I just know 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:32.320 it's really I know they're actually talking to me. This 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.520 is not like me making stuff. That's how it really is. Totally. Yes, 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.320 I've said this recently. It was so funny. I was 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:44.400 we were when when the COVID first happened, before any 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.120 lockdowns or anything like that happened. My husband and my 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:48.720 daughter and I left the city because we knew that 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.080 they were gonna lock down Manhattan. We don't we live 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.200 in eight square feet. We're like, we gotta get out 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:54.640 of here. We don't have a yard, like our kids 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.080 got to be able to play outside. So we left. 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.160 We got a cabin in Massachusetts and I had I 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.600 had a ghost sighting there and it was just super 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:06.360 super boring ghost sighting. But I mentioned it that sounds 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:08.200 really like that. It's not even possible. You can not 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.760 have a super boring ghost sighting. Girl, This ghost was asleep. 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.440 It was so it was like, I'll tell you the 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:16.440 story in a second. But like I mentioned it on 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.160 True Crime Obsessed and somebody heard it and this lady 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:20.920 called me and asked me if she could interview me 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.080 about it, and I thought it was just for a blog, 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:25.240 and it ended up being for a story for the 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.400 New York Times. So I have told this now and 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:30.640 then I got a million interview request about it. I've 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:32.320 told the story like ten million times in the last 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.680 two months. But it was, um oh, I am very 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.440 concerned that I missed that story. How did that happen? Okay, Oh, 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.040 it's a fascinating story. It's all about people who are 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.040 seeing like ghosts in quarantine and like is it real 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:46.400 or are we all just like going crazy? Look that up. Okay, 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:48.440 it's really interesting. I mean, like, this was the thing 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:49.960 where I just woke up at like two in the 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:51.480 morning and I went to get a glass of water, 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.040 and as I was walking to like into the kitchen, 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:56.680 I noticed that there was like a person sitting at 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.560 the at the kitchen table, like an older man and 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:03.440 like a like an old school military uniform. And in 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:06.000 my brain it's sort of like made sense to me 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:07.480 because it wasn't our house, and I was like, oh, 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:09.680 this is like his house. And and then when I 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:11.360 sort of realized what was happening, I looked over and 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:13.120 I saw him and he had his head down on 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:14.920 his chest. He looked like he was asleep, and then 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:17.120 all of a sudden, he was just gone, Oh my gosh, 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:21.240 what God. And Julian said, Jillian my coast said to me, 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:23.400 go through the photo albums in the house and see 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:25.120 if you can find anybody who looks like him. But 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:28.720 I realized they have a whole family tree wall in 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:30.680 their house, and I went and looked at it, and 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:32.840 it goes all the way back, and I didn't really 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:34.200 see the ghost face, so I don't know what he 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.560 looks like. But I saw all these men from like 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.440 the twenties that looked like in these military uniforms, which crazy. 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.440 So I just have to know how the rest of 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:46.320 that night played out. Did you just get your water 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.080 and go back to bed, like, oh, well, I literally like, oh, 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:50.800 I just saw a ghost and then I went and 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:52.920 I almost didn't tell Steve, my husband, about it the 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.480 next day. It was such a non occurrence that I 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:57.600 almost didn't mention it. And I told him, And of 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:01.360 course Steve doesn't believe in any of this stuff. It's like, no, 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.919 Steve is the most like you know, you're born and 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.720 then you're you know, yeah, you're born and you die. 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.479 Guy out there, you just not believe in any of it. 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.240 Oh my gosh. It's tough to live with someone because 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:16.320 you know what, then the other person is like, oh, 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:21.720 you're just like some crazy conspiracy theorist. But I'm glad 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:26.640 you're making your marriage work despite this difference. But okay, 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:28.760 but even before you went out to this, I feel 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.800 like an old cabin in um in Matthews makes sense 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:33.720 to me, like that's where like if you're gonna find 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.640 like lingering spirits, that's gonna be there. But you've had 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.400 experiences like in flipp in Manhattan, right like in your 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.560 in your home. I'm trying to think about them, uh, 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.920 experience with Daisy or something. Oh yes, in our Okay. 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.080 So we've moved several times in the last couple of years. 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.320 But our first apartment that we lived in with Daisy day, 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:54.720 I never saw anything in this apartment but Daisy. We 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.800 would hear Daisy as like a two year old talking 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.679 to somebody, like literally, and then and then we and 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:05.199 we would like here on the baby monitor, and then um, 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:07.399 I'm trying one day, and then she started talking about 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:09.760 the man. She started talking about the man in her room. 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:12.879 So she would say, like, Daddy, the man woke me 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:14.919 up this morning. And I would say, which man, the 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.760 man that lives in my room? Daddy, the man that 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:25.480 lives in my room? I know, I know, Okay, Okay. 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:29.760 The debaby baby monitor have like was it a video monitor? No? 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:32.160 And that was the thing that we we had debated 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:35.040 getting and I was sort of like, I kind of 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:38.480 can't handle the idea of like seeing her talking to 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:40.439 like that would just scare the ship out of me. 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:44.440 And I can't handle that. But you could hear her talking, yeah, 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.640 so what do you do, Like George, don't really make 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:50.840 like real like they don't make like, you know, real sentences. 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:56.240 But she's responding, yeah, totally. And she would talk about 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:57.760 the man, the man that lived in her room, and 0:18:57.760 --> 0:18:59.760 it was just like, oh my god. And you know 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:02.120 she six now and like I don't remember anything from 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:04.520 when I was two, she still talks about that apartment, 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:06.560 in that room, like there was she had some sort 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:08.760 of connection to it. Does she remember the man she 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.320 talked to? I haven't asked her about that in a 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:13.240 long time. I should ask her. I don't want to 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:16.000 scare her because now she would understand better, but I 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:18.680 should ask her about that. Well, what did she tell 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:20.080 you about the man? What did she have to say 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:24.719 about him? She would say, not a lot. I remember that, 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.840 like she would he would be there like when the 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:30.160 lights were off, like it was never when the lights 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:36.919 were on, and we never, like you can't get like, 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:39.840 Daisy is not one to Daisy is not a woman 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.520