Speaker 1: This is Master's in Business with Barry Ridholts on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, I have an extra special guest.
Speaker 1: Her name is Fern Malice, and if you are at
Speaker 1: all interested in fashion, clothing, retail or any of the
Speaker 1: things related to that, uh, you'll find this conversation especially interesting.
Speaker 1: I wish I would have had more time. I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask her about some of the changes in the industry, etcetera, etcetera.
Speaker 1: But I think you'll find this to be really an
Speaker 1: interesting and fascinating conversation. So, with no further ado, my
Speaker 1: interview with Fern Malice. My special guest today is Fern Malice.
Speaker 1: She is the president of fashion and design consultancy Fern
Speaker 1: Malice LLC. Previously, she was the executive director of the
Speaker 1: Council of Fashion Designers of America, where she has been
Speaker 1: awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award, as well as other such
Speaker 1: awards from Pratt Institute and the Fashion Institute of Technology
Speaker 1: better known as f i T. She is the creator
Speaker 1: of Fashion Week in New York. Fern Malice, Welcome to Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Barry. I'm happy to be here. So let's
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about your background in fashion. Is
Speaker 1: this an area you were always interested in and how
Speaker 1: did you break into the field. Yes, I guess you
Speaker 1: could say I was always interested in it. I grew
Speaker 1: up in Brooklyn. My dad worked in the government center
Speaker 1: and his brothers worked there as well. My dad was
Speaker 1: in accessories scarves primarily, and the uncles were in textiles
Speaker 1: and in sportswear. Family business. I grew up in going,
Speaker 1: going with him to work every time I could, every
Speaker 1: day off from school to the garment district when it
Speaker 1: was a bustling, hustling place, all those carts on the street,
Speaker 1: and all those people who knew each other, and and
Speaker 1: I learned, and I watched, and I loved it, and
Speaker 1: I loved clothing. So what was your first job we
Speaker 1: were working not for a family member. Well, I never
Speaker 1: worked for a family member, Luckily, I just grew up
Speaker 1: surrounded by them and learned about the industry, apprentice assimilating um.
Speaker 1: But my early jobs in high school, my summer jobs
Speaker 1: were at Simplicity Patterns, which was a big deal at
Speaker 1: that time when people used to make their own clothes,
Speaker 1: and and a department store. Do you ever remember the
Speaker 1: name or backs thirty fourth Street that I worked in
Speaker 1: our backs one summer. I kind of remember one read
Speaker 1: off a root for in New Jersey. Oh, you know
Speaker 1: they eventually they did expand and then they you know,
Speaker 1: shut down like everything else. Um, but those were my
Speaker 1: first jobs in school. I was in school. But then
Speaker 1: my first real job was at Mademoiselle magazine at Conde Nast.
Speaker 1: So what did you do for Mademoiselle? Um? Well, I
Speaker 1: actually that's how my career really started. I want to contest.
Speaker 1: I was a Mademoiselle guest editor, which was a very
Speaker 1: big deal when I was growing up. They picked twenty
Speaker 1: students from around the country to guest edit their college
Speaker 1: issue come to New York for a month. Today it
Speaker 1: would be a reality TV show with twenty girls out
Speaker 1: to kill each other in some apartment to get the
Speaker 1: job or the boyfriend. And it was an extraordinary experience.
Speaker 1: Sylvia Plath was a guest editor Ally McGraw bet C.
Speaker 1: Johnson before me and before they were famous, but well
Speaker 1: before they when they were in college getting getting the
Speaker 1: junior senior year of college and I was at the
Speaker 1: University of Buffalo. Came back and did my my guest editorship,
Speaker 1: and then I was the only one of my twenty
Speaker 1: in that group that was asked to stay on at
Speaker 1: the magazine with a full time job. So what did
Speaker 1: you do with the magazine going forward? After After that forward,
Speaker 1: I was in the college competitions area and then merchandising
Speaker 1: and marketing UM. But in the college camp area, it
Speaker 1: was very interesting because we're talking I graduated in sixty nine,
Speaker 1: being revealing my age here people do the math, but
Speaker 1: it was when the world was coming apart. It was
Speaker 1: Vietnam War. It was craziness. And so going to college
Speaker 1: campuses to talk about a fashion magazine, and Mademoiselle was
Speaker 1: more than a fashion magazine. It was really the thinking
Speaker 1: woman's magazine. At its time, it was one of the
Speaker 1: best books in the Counting Nest stable. So you started
Speaker 1: postfringe but pre polyester. Is that affair? Yeah, you could
Speaker 1: say that, you know, and and it was a great experience.
Speaker 1: And then when I moved into the merchandising area, I
Speaker 1: in my twenties was traveling to every single state in
Speaker 1: the country, going to department stores when they all had
Speaker 1: regional names and identities before they were all bought by Macy's,
Speaker 1: and doing story events, bringing the magazine to life. It
Speaker 1: was a great experience. So how did you go from
Speaker 1: working for a magazine to setting up your own consultancy?
Speaker 1: What was in between that? There were several things in
Speaker 1: between that, including working for Gimbals East as fashion director
Speaker 1: on the Uptown store when that was there. Um, I
Speaker 1: worked on Seventh Avenue for a short time. I hated
Speaker 1: that side of the business. Um, why what was what
Speaker 1: was the problem? You know? I like it was the
Speaker 1: nitty gritty mathiastically like selling. I liked being the one
Speaker 1: people wanted to come to. It just wasn't the right
Speaker 1: fit for me. Um. But eventually I opened up a
Speaker 1: PR firm um And I basically did that because I
Speaker 1: thought I had nine full one one on my forehead.
Speaker 1: Everybody would call me for where do I get this?
Speaker 1: How do I get that? Can you connect me with this?
Speaker 1: Can you? I was like one of my central booking
Speaker 1: information here, and I realized I could get paid for
Speaker 1: that information. So I opened up a PR firm in
Speaker 1: my friends offices who are architects and interior designers, and
Speaker 1: at the time two place it contextually they were designing
Speaker 1: Studio fifty four. So that was a fun, heady time
Speaker 1: to be around them. And this is mid to late
Speaker 1: seventies now, Yes, and we I had a PR firm
Speaker 1: and I started representing. The first one was a fashion
Speaker 1: client was Shri, a Varry store that was very famous
Speaker 1: on the West Side, Selma Wiser and a few other
Speaker 1: fashion friends. And then it shifted to architecture and interior
Speaker 1: design and representing all the major furniture companies and textile
Speaker 1: companies because I love that world. I love the whole
Speaker 1: design world, how it all connects and lifestyle. And I
Speaker 1: then ran left that to join one of my clients,
Speaker 1: which was the I d C m Y International Design Center,
Speaker 1: New York in Long Island City, was right over the bridge.
Speaker 1: It was an extraordinary project building a million square feet
Speaker 1: of showrooms for the interior furnishings industry. And we helped
Speaker 1: bill that and I was very much involved in that,
Speaker 1: working with I AM Paying Partners and Coffee Seagull and
Speaker 1: UM I AM and the Vanielli's who did the graphics.
Speaker 1: It was a wonderful time in my life. I d
Speaker 1: C opened a building in New York. Now, didn't they
Speaker 1: know they's either the decorator and design. Yes, there were
Speaker 1: several design buildings in new but it's not I I
Speaker 1: d C was competition to all those buildings in Long
Speaker 1: Island City, and people were very nervous that everybody was
Speaker 1: going to go over the bridge. It didn't work out,
Speaker 1: you know, going over the bridge in New York if
Speaker 1: you're if you're not going to the airport or going home,
Speaker 1: you don't cross the water. I mean in Chicago, Paris,
Speaker 1: everywhere else. You cross the water all day long with Chicago.
Speaker 1: But New York it didn't work, and we had they
Speaker 1: were closing lanes of the bridge all the time. They
Speaker 1: really screwed it up big time. It was all time
Speaker 1: million dollar complex and it still is one of the
Speaker 1: most extraordinary set of buildings that old factories that were
Speaker 1: retrofitted to design showrooms. The best architects in the world
Speaker 1: designed them all. And now that whole area is hot
Speaker 1: as a pistol. That was Premazon. Now if I wish
Speaker 1: when I was there that I bought property Among Island
Speaker 1: City for Amazon. They were building Huge was the first
Speaker 1: building that you know, we thought, okay, when the rest
Speaker 1: of this going to happen, But it took a long
Speaker 1: long time. By the way, you mentioned um department stores
Speaker 1: that are no longer with us. Let's test your memory.
Speaker 1: We're sitting standing in a building. We're sitting in a
Speaker 1: building Alexander's, alexand that's exactly right by the way. Alexander's
Speaker 1: is the store I was thinking of on Route for
Speaker 1: that had the giant was it a calleder? It was
Speaker 1: a giant piece of artwork on the outside of the building.
Speaker 1: On Route four. I want to say, just passed Hackensack,
Speaker 1: But I was a kid with I don't go root
Speaker 1: for right bridge and tunnels. You never leave Manhattan unless
Speaker 1: you go into the Hamptons. That's the not to or
Speaker 1: or an airport. So let's talk about before Fashion Week.
Speaker 1: What was the state of the fashion industry before this
Speaker 1: event existed, well before Fashion Week was formally created and organized,
Speaker 1: centralized and modernized, which is what I like to say,
Speaker 1: Um we did. There were fashion shows. I mean, the
Speaker 1: industry had its bi annual timetable to get its collections
Speaker 1: out in front of buyers. But it was a very
Speaker 1: very exclusive, insider event. If you weren't in the industry,
Speaker 1: you didn't know about it. If you went by a
Speaker 1: building on Seventh Avenue, you might think what's going on?
Speaker 1: If there's a line outside getting in or something. If
Speaker 1: they were fifty shows, they were in fifty different locations
Speaker 1: and nobody talked to each other. It was uptown, downtown, midtown.
Speaker 1: You know, if somebody had a show in the Pierre
Speaker 1: Hotel and morning, they'd have to take everything down in
Speaker 1: the afternoon because somebody had a our mits for there
Speaker 1: that night, and then somebody wanted to rent it again
Speaker 1: the next day, you'd put it all back in there.
Speaker 1: It was a bit chaotic. Um sounds complicated and expensive,
Speaker 1: and it was complicated, expensive, and it was. It was
Speaker 1: at a time when the American designers weren't really well
Speaker 1: known and reaching out to Europe. The biggest European expansion
Speaker 1: was Calvin Klein maybe doing Fragrance. And so I'm glad
Speaker 1: you brought that up because I'm now my perspective on
Speaker 1: this is colored by pop culture and movies like the
Speaker 1: Devil Wears product. But you very much get the sense
Speaker 1: that both Paris and Milan were much more structured and
Speaker 1: organized or is that just you know, that's the truth.
Speaker 1: Paris and Milan were the that that's where it was,
Speaker 1: that that's what it was about. London a little bit
Speaker 1: New York was somewhat of an afterthought. York was treated
Speaker 1: as their last on the calendar. They're waiting to see
Speaker 1: what we do in Europe and they're gonna copy us,
Speaker 1: and it was it was crazy. So I had just
Speaker 1: been hired. This is back in ninety one. I was
Speaker 1: selected as the executive director of the c f d
Speaker 1: A after they did a very long search, after I
Speaker 1: left the design universe of I, D C and Y
Speaker 1: and all of that, And there was this little organization,
Speaker 1: the c FDA, which had done a big AIDS benefit
Speaker 1: called seventh on six, seventh on Sale, and that's when
Speaker 1: I got involved with them and I was hired as
Speaker 1: their executive director. It was March of one, and I
Speaker 1: believe that I remember exactly. I was hired at the
Speaker 1: end of March. I didn't start till mid April. There
Speaker 1: was a market Week Fashion week in between. Michael Cores
Speaker 1: had a show in an empty loft space and Chelsea
Speaker 1: And when you turn the base music on in a
Speaker 1: space for a fashion show, that's very loud, and if
Speaker 1: things aren't nailed down, they tend to tremble. Well, the
Speaker 1: ceiling trembled and plasters started falling off from the ceiling.
Speaker 1: And the ceiling literally was falling down on the runway.
Speaker 1: He brought the roof down. Well, there you go. He
Speaker 1: brought the roof down, and plaster was on the shoulders
Speaker 1: of Naomi and Cindy and Linda and all the one
Speaker 1: named supermodels of the day. But when but they kept walking?
Speaker 1: But when it landed in the lapse of Susie Mankis
Speaker 1: from the International Herald Tribune carried Donovan, the fashion critic
Speaker 1: at the New York Times. They wrote the next day,
Speaker 1: we live for fashion, we don't want to die for it.
Speaker 1: And I looked at all that and I said, I
Speaker 1: think my job description just changed and it beat My
Speaker 1: job then started immediately when I got there, to figure
Speaker 1: out a way to do safe sound places for the
Speaker 1: American designers to do their runway shows. So the concept was,
Speaker 1: let's get all this together in one place, one location,
Speaker 1: one week, make it safe, make it accessible, make it
Speaker 1: more reasonable and more efficient, amortized the costs for everybody.
Speaker 1: And so how did you end up finding a way
Speaker 1: to Bryant Park, which, if we're talking one Brian Park
Speaker 1: was still a little city, but it was on It
Speaker 1: was in the last throes of its renovation. At the restaurant,
Speaker 1: wasn't there right? For people who are not familiar with this,
Speaker 1: Brian Park is basically the full city block behind the
Speaker 1: New York Public Library. In the sixties seventies, eighties, it
Speaker 1: was very much haven for drugs and right Needle Park
Speaker 1: and um, when I used to visit my dad's office
Speaker 1: on Madison Avenue, we would say, if you're come in
Speaker 1: by train, don't go up. And now my office on
Speaker 1: which is pretty it's one of the most beautiful urban
Speaker 1: renovation ever. A jewel of the city. It is. It
Speaker 1: is a very very special place. And the lawn there
Speaker 1: was it was like the backyard to the garment center.
Speaker 1: Because it was a block away from Seventh Avenue Broadway,
Speaker 1: where all the showrooms were. It was walking to everything.
Speaker 1: There's lots of public transportation and subways. Block away from
Speaker 1: Times Square, two blocks from Grand Central. I mean, you
Speaker 1: don't get a better location than Brian Park. It's pretty
Speaker 1: much smack dab in the center of the city. You
Speaker 1: can get to it from anywhere easily. Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: we we began. My job became find a place. So
Speaker 1: I was riding around New York. I look at every
Speaker 1: empty pier, every big parking lot. Can we put tents
Speaker 1: up here? How big can we do this? Um San Herman,
Speaker 1: who was the president of the CFD eight office, is
Speaker 1: actually on the corner of and sixth overlooking Brian Park
Speaker 1: and he was on the board of the community board
Speaker 1: there and work closely with Dan Biederman, who I know
Speaker 1: you've interviewed her the big and we wound up eventually
Speaker 1: making a deal with with Dan and with Brian Park.
Speaker 1: It was literally the backyard to the to the industry.
Speaker 1: People loved it there and I used to for again
Speaker 1: for people who may not have actually seen this, and
Speaker 1: you could find time lapse photography about it. The part
Speaker 1: goes from this big open space that's I don't know,
Speaker 1: let's call it half a city block, and that's the
Speaker 1: lawn and suddenly a giant set of tents go up
Speaker 1: and a little city. Now what they do is in
Speaker 1: the winter there's a ice skating rink and a lodge
Speaker 1: that's temporary right well that they disappeared January, so they're
Speaker 1: gone already, but you still have urban space there and
Speaker 1: you still have the ice skating rink. But if you
Speaker 1: watched Fashion Week show up, it was an amazing bit
Speaker 1: of logistics to build it and then you could go
Speaker 1: see the video and you don't really you it's hard
Speaker 1: to imagine that this is a temporary space. When you
Speaker 1: see images from the fashion show, it always looks amazing.
Speaker 1: So how what was it like setting up that first one?
Speaker 1: It was pretty extraordinary. Uh. I mean we had started
Speaker 1: first at the MACLo Hotel, which was the then became
Speaker 1: the Millennial Hotel, just to see if we can get
Speaker 1: more than three designers to do something together, because their
Speaker 1: egos is such that nobody wants to do anything in
Speaker 1: the same space. But they really genuine problem a problem
Speaker 1: at the beginning was first, is there jockeying for absolutely,
Speaker 1: it's it's the war room with the with the slots
Speaker 1: and moving the post. It's around until you got his
Speaker 1: calendar that work. That's the wedding where all sorts of
Speaker 1: crazy stuff and you had to deal with that only
Speaker 1: with much bigger egos. Yeah, you could say that, but
Speaker 1: but they understood at the beginning that this was gonna
Speaker 1: If this is gonna work, we all have to do
Speaker 1: it together. So the first seasons we did have Calvin
Speaker 1: Klein in the tents and Donna Karen and Ralph Lauren
Speaker 1: Um who Eventually those designers moved out to do their
Speaker 1: own thing, which was fine, but it helped get this
Speaker 1: off the ground. We invited all the European press and
Speaker 1: buyers to come and it changed the world and it
Speaker 1: changed the fashion industry. How long did it take before
Speaker 1: you realized, hey, we have something here. Oh, it didn't
Speaker 1: take long at all. It happened very quickly, and I'm
Speaker 1: extremely proud of what that meant to these people into
Speaker 1: the industry, into our city and our culture. But that
Speaker 1: first season, that first sound check, when the music really
Speaker 1: went blasting, you know, goose bumps all over, you know,
Speaker 1: you just couldn't believe it was really happening. We did
Speaker 1: a ribbon cutting with Dincin and Mayor Dincon's wife. Let's
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the business of fashion, because,
Speaker 1: after all, um, it is a business whose purpose is
Speaker 1: to sell products to consumers. How do you look at
Speaker 1: the world of fast fashion. After there's a show in
Speaker 1: Paris and Milan, it seems two weeks later they're cheap
Speaker 1: knockoffs from China hanging on the racks in the US.
Speaker 1: Is this a good thing? Is this a thing? How
Speaker 1: do we how do we think about this, well, it
Speaker 1: depends on who you are. If you're a consumer who
Speaker 1: wants to buy something really fast and of the moment,
Speaker 1: and that's really inexpensive, it's a great thing. If you're
Speaker 1: a designer and you know a company with integrity, who
Speaker 1: plays by the rules of time and place and making
Speaker 1: something and putting out a quality product, it's not such
Speaker 1: a good thing. If you're into sustainable fashion in the industry,
Speaker 1: it's not such a good thing because there's a ton
Speaker 1: of stuff that's being made that is filling landfills, um.
Speaker 1: You know, there's there are a lot of problems. But
Speaker 1: fast fashion has woken up a lot of people. I
Speaker 1: mean the H and m s of the world and
Speaker 1: top Shop and Sarah's and what have you. Um, But
Speaker 1: the customer who's buying that is not the customer who's
Speaker 1: buying really designer clothes. People know the difference. The luxury
Speaker 1: business right now is doing very well. The LVMH is
Speaker 1: the um. Louis utan Chanel I never really thought of
Speaker 1: fast fashion as a threat to the either aspirational luxury
Speaker 1: or full own luxury. But I do look at e
Speaker 1: commerce and everything being online, as well as things like
Speaker 1: rent the Runway and predd up porter as potentially satisfying
Speaker 1: some of the demand for those products. How does the
Speaker 1: industry look at either e commerce or high end pre
Speaker 1: owned or even rentable um fashion. I think those are
Speaker 1: all the different aspects of the industry that have evolved
Speaker 1: over the years. UM. I think you know, rent the
Speaker 1: runway is a brilliant business. Jennifer Hyman started. I worked
Speaker 1: with her at IMG we were there at the same time. UM,
Speaker 1: it's quite remarkable read the rental business period is becoming
Speaker 1: a big, big business because people it's also sustainable. Also,
Speaker 1: you don't need to buy this stuff, you don't need
Speaker 1: to own it in your closet. UM. All of that
Speaker 1: is great, but e commerce is very much a part
Speaker 1: of everybody's business. The highest end luxury people that everybody's
Speaker 1: available on e commerce one way or another, whether it's
Speaker 1: their own site or their part of Matches Fashion or
Speaker 1: Netta Porte or uh some of the very big UM conglomerates.
Speaker 1: You know, UM, what's the word I'm thinking of? Who
Speaker 1: you know? Who put all the different looks together? Far fetched?
Speaker 1: Who has all the different stores on it? I mean
Speaker 1: the e commerce, the online business is enormous. This holiday season,
Speaker 1: it was huge. And what that is hurting more than
Speaker 1: anything is the retail experience. Um. So it's forcing stores again,
Speaker 1: at least smart stores, to rethink what they're doing and
Speaker 1: to create an experience to make shopping matter again. UM.
Speaker 1: I mean it's very sad. And you walk around New
Speaker 1: York and you see all the Forends signs. You know,
Speaker 1: Lord and Taylor is just closed down. Um just the headquarters.
Speaker 1: Now what a New York store, Yes, but but that
Speaker 1: still was an iconic New York store. Um. The Versace
Speaker 1: stores closing on Fifth Avenue. Um, there's all sorts of
Speaker 1: stores going out everywhere. The Gap store is closing on
Speaker 1: Fifth Avenue. Um. But retailers are looking at creating experiences again.
Speaker 1: I know, Sex of the avenues going under major renovation.
Speaker 1: They've moved you know, accessories up and pan bags down,
Speaker 1: and cosmetics had another set up to another floor. They've
Speaker 1: just bringing in a very fancy restaurant from France the avenue.
Speaker 1: They're trying to create reasons for people to come back
Speaker 1: into the stores, and I think that's a good thing.
Speaker 1: And e commerce companies like Rent the Runway have begun
Speaker 1: to open retail outposts. So there's still there's still people
Speaker 1: like going to a place and seeing it, trying it
Speaker 1: on and having that experience. I previously had a conversation
Speaker 1: with Barbara kan who's a professor at Wharton, and she
Speaker 1: was telling us about some of the new technology that's
Speaker 1: come in where you know, when you shop at Amazon,
Speaker 1: they have this huge informational advantage. If you click this,
Speaker 1: we we could tell you what everybody else looked at.
Speaker 1: These are the three most popular ingredients of or objects
Speaker 1: or items, not ingredients, These are the three most popular
Speaker 1: items for other people who bought this. What Professor Kam
Speaker 1: was saying is you could they're using RF radio tags
Speaker 1: and a smart mirror, and when you bring an item
Speaker 1: in certain stores into the dressing room, the mirror will
Speaker 1: act very similar to the way Amazon did, and said
Speaker 1: people who looked at this item also looked at this belt,
Speaker 1: the scarf, the successory, and not only are they getting
Speaker 1: a higher percentage of sales, but they're also getting a
Speaker 1: higher percentage of anons and other things, Which is a
Speaker 1: long winded way of a sking what is the role
Speaker 1: of technology in fashion. It's a huge part of the
Speaker 1: fashion industry. It's a huge part of every industry. I mean,
Speaker 1: technology has changed the way we do everything. It's a
Speaker 1: little bit of big brother watching you in a way,
Speaker 1: and it's a little bit scary some day. Some days,
Speaker 1: you know, if you just look at something online, the
Speaker 1: next time you open up your computer, tensites jump in
Speaker 1: your face, like are you looking for a tote bag?
Speaker 1: You know here? Whatever, it's I it's invasive. It's as
Speaker 1: it is scary. That's a generational thing you and I
Speaker 1: hate that. Younger folks they could care less about it. PS.
Speaker 1: I've discovered that if I log out of Facebook while
Speaker 1: I'm online, that sort of stuff happens much less because
Speaker 1: Facebook tracks everything you do on Facebook off Facebook, and
Speaker 1: they're the ones who are serving you a lot of
Speaker 1: that stuff, just making I guess I should be happy
Speaker 1: that I've been I've been act on Facebook like six
Speaker 1: seven months ago, and I can't. I can't get back
Speaker 1: on no matter what. I've tried everything, connecting with everybody
Speaker 1: under the sun, and I have to two pages, you know,
Speaker 1: a verified one and a personal one, both of them
Speaker 1: I can. I cannot log on to Facebook. I get
Speaker 1: messages all day long from people on emails. So and
Speaker 1: so commented, I said, I can't see any of it.
Speaker 1: So if anybody's listening from Facebook, come on, please tell
Speaker 1: me how to get You're losing a good, good customer here.
Speaker 1: I'd like to be back on. Well, we'll forward this
Speaker 1: to someone there and make sure they if it was Twitter,
Speaker 1: I could help you. I have no contact that U
Speaker 1: Actually that's not true. I do have contacts on Facebook,
Speaker 1: but I don't know if I can help you with it. Um.
Speaker 1: After I slag them constantly about being such a we'll
Speaker 1: say something nice. Um. So let's let's we talked about
Speaker 1: e commerce. This raises a really interesting question. Is fashion
Speaker 1: and clothing the sort of thing that people are always
Speaker 1: going to go into a store for? Or can you
Speaker 1: have Will we eventually get to the point where the
Speaker 1: stores become virtual and people don't have to go physically shopping. Now,
Speaker 1: that will never happen. That's your forecast that they're the
Speaker 1: smart ones will adapt and and change and evolve as
Speaker 1: any smart business. But I think you still want to
Speaker 1: go and see and touch and feel, and if you
Speaker 1: can make the experiences unique and service be an important
Speaker 1: part of it. I mean, I'm a little nervous in
Speaker 1: New York in a few months. There's a new name,
Speaker 1: and Marcus is going to open up in the city
Speaker 1: and the Nordstrom's in this year. I mean, those are
Speaker 1: two serious department stores opening in New York City in
Speaker 1: a time when people are just nervous about shop being
Speaker 1: and going to stories. Are we saturated with big department
Speaker 1: stores in New York City? No, I don't think we
Speaker 1: are at all. That's why I think this is gonna
Speaker 1: be interesting having the two of them open. But it's
Speaker 1: going to be interesting. That's I don't want to pass
Speaker 1: judge and I don't want to predict. We'll see. Nordstrom's
Speaker 1: is new to New York this. I mean there's a
Speaker 1: men's store that opened first, but that's has a very
Speaker 1: different culture. And even Marcus is going to open in
Speaker 1: Hudson Yards, you know, and that's going to be interesting.
Speaker 1: It's not a place with a lot of foot traffic yet,
Speaker 1: not yet anyway to be a destination, although there's certainly
Speaker 1: between the high Line and everything else that's over there,
Speaker 1: there's certainly a ton of tourist traction making its way
Speaker 1: near the Hudson Yards. It's really not all that far
Speaker 1: away from that um you mentioned, um Nordstrom I know
Speaker 1: Nordstrom in Suburbia from Nordstrom Rack. How do you Although
Speaker 1: that's not true because I've gone to the north Stroom
Speaker 1: that is in UH at Roosevelt Field. I don't go
Speaker 1: to malls, so I don't remember, but I've been in
Speaker 1: Nordstrom's and Nordstrom Rack, which raises the question, what do
Speaker 1: you think about this sort of outlet center shopping that
Speaker 1: has blown up over the past I don't know, twenty years.
Speaker 1: For a while, I think this still happens in New York.
Speaker 1: The tourists would get on a bus and drive an
Speaker 1: hour and a half north to go to the giant
Speaker 1: outlets center that's up in just north of White Plains,
Speaker 1: And it took me a while to access that. But um,
Speaker 1: I literally bus loads of people go up there to
Speaker 1: go shopping. Is that a viable business? Is it the
Speaker 1: same clothes that you see in the main stores? What?
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts about? It's definitely a viable business.
Speaker 1: And Woodburry Commons is quite phenomenal. I mean the amount
Speaker 1: of stores they have and they create those shopping um
Speaker 1: destination um to replicate the headquarters stores, so it's not
Speaker 1: just a bunch of rack closed somewhere. You know, you
Speaker 1: feel like you're in a berbery, you feel like you're
Speaker 1: in a in a you know, Barneys or whatever is
Speaker 1: up there. But it's not the same merchandise that you
Speaker 1: can find in the current lines. It's it's generally past
Speaker 1: season or it's um and in many cases there's separate
Speaker 1: business companies make stuff for that lit stores, they make
Speaker 1: other lines that you can't even buy anywhere else that
Speaker 1: they're a lower price. UM. I don't think those customers
Speaker 1: getting on the buses at you know, um the big
Speaker 1: hotels in the city, at the what's the bus m
Speaker 1: what's across the streets from the Times, what's called the
Speaker 1: bus terminal Port Authority, thank you. Um. They are bus
Speaker 1: loads of people, like you say, tourists and a lot
Speaker 1: of Asians. UM, fill up those buses and go there.
Speaker 1: They mark, they market to people. So tours come here
Speaker 1: from China and Japan and elsewhere, and part of the
Speaker 1: week or two they spend in the United States eights
Speaker 1: is a bus pulls up in from the hotel as
Speaker 1: part of their vacation and they go up to the
Speaker 1: Woodbury Outlets centers. That's what my understanding is. I was
Speaker 1: up there years and years ago. In fact, to do
Speaker 1: a radio show for w R with John Hamburg years ago.
Speaker 1: We did it from Woodbury Commons and it always intrigues
Speaker 1: me that I should go there. But I got across
Speaker 1: the bridge, got across the water, and we know you
Speaker 1: won't do that airports and in the Hampton's we got that.
Speaker 1: Um So let's talk a little bit about the power
Speaker 1: of brands. How important are brands, whether it's a designer,
Speaker 1: a manufacturer or retailer. Do brands still carry the same
Speaker 1: cachet and power that they used to? Well, that depends
Speaker 1: on the brand, you know. I mean the sneak the
Speaker 1: biggest thing in the world now, sneakers you know, from
Speaker 1: whether it's Nike, Adidas, whomever. Um, I notice you're wearing
Speaker 1: a pair of Yeasys. I am not wearing. Get out
Speaker 1: of here when you have nothing else to do, Google furnace,
Speaker 1: Kanye West. Trust me. That's why I've brought that up.
Speaker 1: I know you guys have had a falling out and
Speaker 1: a reconciliation and we just had a little bruhaha, no no, no, no,
Speaker 1: squirremat and I purposely did not wear I'm a sneaker head.
Speaker 1: And I purposely did not wear anything today. Yeah, these
Speaker 1: are royal birds, they're wool. They're kind of funky online things.
Speaker 1: But um, but brands. But brands matter to some people.
Speaker 1: Some people are very brand conscious. I mean, you know
Speaker 1: the phenomena of Supreme having a name on something in
Speaker 1: a line outside that store. But you know what seems
Speaker 1: to be resonating more with people now are brands and
Speaker 1: companies that stand for something and give back and have
Speaker 1: a moral purpose for existing. People are really looking for
Speaker 1: some hatchment to a company and why they're doing certain
Speaker 1: things like when Nike did took their stand with Kaepernick.
Speaker 1: Colin Kaepernick, can I push back on you? And then
Speaker 1: we'll talk about Gillette. So think about the people who
Speaker 1: were pro and con Colin Kaepernack. The people who were
Speaker 1: all up in arms over them taking a knee, their
Speaker 1: red state folks. They're lower disposal income folks. They're older.
Speaker 1: That's not Nike's core demographic. Nike's core demographic or young hip.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the number was their sales once
Speaker 1: people under thirty five. The business went through the roof
Speaker 1: after it was a genius. It was the best marketing
Speaker 1: um moment of it was totally. It was just it
Speaker 1: was it was emotional. It was the right thing to do,
Speaker 1: you know, and that's what resonates with a brand when
Speaker 1: they do that, that's when you really want to support
Speaker 1: a company. So now we're recording this the day after
Speaker 1: Nike did their big release about their UH sneakers that
Speaker 1: lace up automatically for three hundred and sixty dollars. I
Speaker 1: haven't seen them yet, but it was all over the
Speaker 1: press yesterday wired Verge. So you get your automatic laceup
Speaker 1: sneakers and go in your driverless car, right, So, you
Speaker 1: have a button over here you can loosen it or
Speaker 1: tighten it. And there's also what makes it so interesting
Speaker 1: is it comes with an app for your phone that
Speaker 1: tracks your activity, your calories, burn your miles, all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So it's a smart sneaker, not just a self lacing sneaker.
Speaker 1: And if you're engaging in sports. This wasn't supposed to
Speaker 1: be an ad for Nike, but um, I'll speak to
Speaker 1: Phil Night whenever he wants. When you move and play
Speaker 1: a sport, the sneaker actually adapts to what you're doing
Speaker 1: to provide better support. And you know the technology, Well,
Speaker 1: think about the first time you tried on a dry
Speaker 1: fit shirt where they wis the water away? If you're
Speaker 1: you may mentioned Dinkins playing tennis, if you've ever played
Speaker 1: a sport where you're just drenched and your close stick
Speaker 1: to you and the technology is brilliant and it really
Speaker 1: is just fascinating. So back to brands, Brands that are
Speaker 1: innovative and pushing the envelope and stand for something. You're
Speaker 1: telling us this really makes a difference. Resonates, Yes, what
Speaker 1: about have you seen the Gillette add on that I
Speaker 1: might not? Now maybe I'm just a New York liberal
Speaker 1: East Coast you know, socialist summer camps. The line from
Speaker 1: the Woody Allen movie. Um, I watched that, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't understand what. Hey, don't let your kids bully
Speaker 1: other kids. What they to complain about? Well, apparently we're
Speaker 1: on our little Manhattan Island bubble, so we see the
Speaker 1: world differently than some other folks. Well, I hope they
Speaker 1: stayed with that, because I think that kind of advertising
Speaker 1: marketing is brilliant. I mean, we need more of that everywhere.
Speaker 1: I'm that that that universe needs to get those messages out.
Speaker 1: So when you stop and think about it, whether you
Speaker 1: whether you're a snowflake who's triggered by one of these things,
Speaker 1: or you think it's fine, or anything in between, if
Speaker 1: you just think about it from an advertising and marketing perspective.
Speaker 1: We're talking about Gillette and that's a win for them.
Speaker 1: Everything is so saturated and cluttered. To break through is
Speaker 1: not easy to do. You're absolutely right, so bravo to
Speaker 1: these companies for doing that. Let's for now stick with
Speaker 1: the business of fashion and what sort of changes are
Speaker 1: coming our way. You mentioned issues and retailing UM, and
Speaker 1: we talked earlier about fast fashion. What other changes do
Speaker 1: you see coming um to this industry. Some of the
Speaker 1: things that I see on the horizon are a lot
Speaker 1: of designers and a lot of people doing what we
Speaker 1: want to call um genderalist fashion, clothing that is designed
Speaker 1: for a man a woman. There's a lot of that
Speaker 1: starting to happen. Really, I've seen that with sneakers. What
Speaker 1: else is genderless sweaters, tops, pants? I mean, what makes
Speaker 1: it different depends on how how it's designed. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of that happening now and I think it's I
Speaker 1: think it's really interesting. There's a lot of seasonless clothing
Speaker 1: that is year round because of the technology and textiles
Speaker 1: and the layering of clothing. There's also a lot more
Speaker 1: size inclusivity happening. Where what does that mean? Define that
Speaker 1: For many years, all the good brands and designer clothes
Speaker 1: you'd buy would if I'm talking women, now you know
Speaker 1: you'd go up to maybe a size twelve, maybe a Fortunately,
Speaker 1: now they're going up to all the plus sizes being
Speaker 1: included in creating collections for big girls and people who
Speaker 1: who are not model size zero in two, four six,
Speaker 1: I mean that that's a huge I think fourteen or
Speaker 1: sixteen is the biggest size in America of the most people,
Speaker 1: and most designers don't even address them. Address that. You
Speaker 1: mentioned plus size models. That seems to be that's a
Speaker 1: big part of fashion week now when you see it
Speaker 1: in advertising, when you look at all the adds, they're
Speaker 1: girls across the spectrum from nice and thin and lovely,
Speaker 1: too big and beautiful and proud of it. Ashley Graham
Speaker 1: has opened up doors for lots of people when she
Speaker 1: became the first plus size model. I think on the
Speaker 1: cover of Sports Illustrated. Wasn't um I'm gonna get her
Speaker 1: name wrong? Was it? Kate Hudson. One of the swimsuit
Speaker 1: models was considers plus size and you look at her
Speaker 1: and she's gorgeous and not what you would really think
Speaker 1: of as it's been a very interesting industry that's been
Speaker 1: about that thin, skinny you know waif And now they're
Speaker 1: more zoptic and beautiful and and proud of it, um,
Speaker 1: you know, and and fashion now and and at the
Speaker 1: shows you see more inclusivity of of and diversity of
Speaker 1: black models and Asian models and Indian models and people
Speaker 1: of all the different ethnic cultures. I mean, that's who
Speaker 1: the customer is, that's who the world is. And designers
Speaker 1: who you know put out that one. You know, I
Speaker 1: don't one blonde girl with straight blonde hair, you know,
Speaker 1: sixty girls work. That's not what it's about. And so
Speaker 1: there's been a demand in the industry and the customers
Speaker 1: and the media have really gotten fired up and said,
Speaker 1: come on, let's reflect what's happening in the world. And
Speaker 1: I think that that's all really good positive changes for
Speaker 1: the fashion industry. And it'll be interesting to see this
Speaker 1: fashion wink that's coming up. Um how again, how how
Speaker 1: that plays out? Because the runway becomes a big bulletin
Speaker 1: board for what's happening. So that raises a really interesting
Speaker 1: question and how important are the runway shows and events
Speaker 1: like fashion Week to a selling the latest designs but
Speaker 1: be also being an influencer on culture and society. Well,
Speaker 1: I think the importance of fashion week and the fashion
Speaker 1: shows is changing. Um. I think we're in a very
Speaker 1: disruptive moment in fashion. People aren't quite sure, um if
Speaker 1: they should be doing shows and spending the large amounts
Speaker 1: of money for it. But it still is a vehicle
Speaker 1: that generates millions of Instagram moments, you know. So it's
Speaker 1: become a vehicle for social media to really get the
Speaker 1: message out or the look out. And that's the good
Speaker 1: news bad news in my mind, because I'm still of
Speaker 1: that generation like you say that, I wasn't born with
Speaker 1: an iPhone in my hand, and you know, and I
Speaker 1: think eventually it's it's all changing so much. I mean,
Speaker 1: I you sit at a fashion show and I find
Speaker 1: it very frustrating that hardly anybody's looking at the runway.
Speaker 1: They're looking at their phone and they're photographing everything, and
Speaker 1: instead of looking at the real thing happening, they're looking
Speaker 1: at it in a two inch by three inch little frame.
Speaker 1: You have to be present and then I put it down.
Speaker 1: You know, just look at what you look what's in
Speaker 1: front of you. I really admire concerts where you hear
Speaker 1: people where they say no phones allowed. I just saw um,
Speaker 1: who was it? I just saw a show with I'm
Speaker 1: drawing a blank on his name. I'll figure it out.
Speaker 1: I went to a show recently where everybody puts their
Speaker 1: phone in a bag and I actually left the phone
Speaker 1: UM in the car so I didn't have to deal
Speaker 1: with it. Because I thought they'd be a giant line.
Speaker 1: It turned out it's just a little magnet and they
Speaker 1: pop it open. It Really there are people like Dave Chappelle,
Speaker 1: who appears in various places will not allow Assaf Manji
Speaker 1: is another one. Yeah, I mean you look at these things.
Speaker 1: All you see is to see them arms in the
Speaker 1: in the air, and you can't even see who's performing
Speaker 1: because you've got to look through everybody's arms to the
Speaker 1: pictures they're taking. What do they do with all that
Speaker 1: footage and all those pictures? It goes up to Apple
Speaker 1: um or Google Photos and they never look at it again.
Speaker 1: The concept of being present in the moment and participating
Speaker 1: in what's happening right now. I think the current generation,
Speaker 1: while they have a lot to speak for, their their motivated,
Speaker 1: they're intelligent. They see the world um in ways that
Speaker 1: we may not. Sometimes it feels like they're missing that
Speaker 1: moment because they're trying to instagram it right, and everybody's
Speaker 1: designing things for that Instagram morble moment. You go to
Speaker 1: any party now or opening for something, it's no longer
Speaker 1: just the step and repeat wall where they're taking pictures
Speaker 1: with the brand's name on their They're finding some unique
Speaker 1: visual that conveys something they're doing. And that's the place
Speaker 1: where everybody, they expect, don't want everybody to take their picture,
Speaker 1: you know, to take their selfie, not not even a
Speaker 1: real picture, take your own picture in front of that
Speaker 1: that Instagram morble spot, you know. And that's how the
Speaker 1: world is viewed now through Instagram. So fashion week becomes
Speaker 1: a place where everybody wants to quickly say out, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm there, I was there. I that's the best look.
Speaker 1: Smart companies understand how to track data and and use
Speaker 1: that information and can say this was the biggest look
Speaker 1: that came out of that show. This is what we
Speaker 1: should get behind, you know, and this is something we
Speaker 1: should maybe you know, do a bigger production run on,
Speaker 1: you know, if you could use the information correctly. I
Speaker 1: think that there's some value in it. But you know,
Speaker 1: but otherwise, fashion week is is. Fashion shows are still
Speaker 1: the best way to see a designer's vision come to
Speaker 1: fruition from head to toe. What are they thinking? What's there?
Speaker 1: What's a look? What's the point of view? But I question, now,
Speaker 1: who's who are you doing it for? Who's again I'm
Speaker 1: getting too old now. I mean I used to go
Speaker 1: and I, you know, everybody in the front row, and
Speaker 1: then the second row and maybe even the third row.
Speaker 1: Now you go, who are these people? You know, I
Speaker 1: didn't know there was a job called influencer when I
Speaker 1: was growing up. I would have applied. Well, when you
Speaker 1: and I were growing up, that wasn't a job that
Speaker 1: didn't exist pre internet, pre mobile, pre cell phone. Um
Speaker 1: I forgot. I don't remember the brand, but I read
Speaker 1: uh something not too long ago. It might have been
Speaker 1: in Wired magazine that even ice cream companies are changing
Speaker 1: all their labeling on the packages so they're instagram double like,
Speaker 1: oh look how nice this is? Take a photo and
Speaker 1: that's free marketing and advertising for them. So the idea
Speaker 1: of actually building something from the ground up. You're gonna
Speaker 1: get lost in this sea of competition, but if you
Speaker 1: can get in front of enough people via Instagram or
Speaker 1: Facebook or Twitter or what have you, it's a leg up. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean models are hired and booked for shows based
Speaker 1: on how many Instagram followers they have. You know, models
Speaker 1: and people celebrities used to have to build a career.
Speaker 1: Now they build their their own platform. They do it
Speaker 1: all by themselves. You know, models have tell their story
Speaker 1: without you don't have to wait for them to be
Speaker 1: on fifteen Vogue covers to have a career. They reach
Speaker 1: out and they do their story and they have millions
Speaker 1: of followers. But you know in Instagram, there was a
Speaker 1: one of my favorite jokes I saw was on UM.
Speaker 1: I think it must have been a New Yorker cartoon
Speaker 1: of a couple of people, a couple at a table
Speaker 1: and a restaurant eating and the chef walks over to
Speaker 1: them and looks at them and says, what's the matter.
Speaker 1: Didn't you like the food? And they said, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: they said, because nobody took a picture. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to pronounce her name, Emily Radoshkowski, who was
Speaker 1: in the Blurredlines video. I think she has some like
Speaker 1: four million Twitter followers. It's um, it's really shocking, and
Speaker 1: that is here. I could actually pull it up while
Speaker 1: where her official Oh I'm wrong one point three million,
Speaker 1: so but still that's a million people. That's a lot
Speaker 1: of people. Um, she got famous long before that. But
Speaker 1: at a certain point, if you want a career in
Speaker 1: fill in the blank, having the ability to influence or
Speaker 1: attract in the modern era, being adept at marketing, especially
Speaker 1: online and social networks is a user huge advantage for
Speaker 1: anybody pretty much in any career at risk. It man
Speaker 1: splaining that, but it seems to be a big, big
Speaker 1: part of that many industries. It is. Well, that's how
Speaker 1: people get their information online and on a screen on
Speaker 1: a cell phone on I mean, I have nieces who
Speaker 1: don't ever turn television and they watch everything on their
Speaker 1: computer on their laptops. I never never have TV on. So,
Speaker 1: so what does all of this mean for the future
Speaker 1: of fashion and clothing? If people aren't watching TV, if
Speaker 1: they're not paying attention to what's going on around them,
Speaker 1: how do um companies and manufacturers and advertisers reach the audience, well,
Speaker 1: you know how it affects them all. I mean, at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, people are still wearing clothing.
Speaker 1: You know, people haven't all the last week they I
Speaker 1: guess walked out on the subways with no pants on
Speaker 1: or something. There was some it was a big deal
Speaker 1: pant day or something. But people are still getting up
Speaker 1: every day and putting clothing on, and they're still wearing clothes.
Speaker 1: They still buy things. So the industry is not going
Speaker 1: too far away, um, But how people reach out to them,
Speaker 1: that's that's a good question. I mean, you have to
Speaker 1: be you have to hire smart and Brighten, um and
Speaker 1: I and you have to get into that head of
Speaker 1: that millennial and some of those young people who are
Speaker 1: really out there thinking coming up with clever ideas. You
Speaker 1: have to create experiences and you have to create something
Speaker 1: that resonates. And that's why I said, it's whether it's
Speaker 1: resonating about the environment and things that matter to people.
Speaker 1: This generation is finally caring about the environment because it's
Speaker 1: the planet that they're they're growing up in. And I
Speaker 1: think there's more and more attention to that learning about that.
Speaker 1: Brands that are making a real concerted effort to do
Speaker 1: something that is sustainable and correct. Um. And we're all
Speaker 1: still learning about that and don't even know what all
Speaker 1: those words mean. UM. You know. I'm on the board
Speaker 1: of the f I T Foundation. UM, and our gala
Speaker 1: this year in April is honoring is focusing on sustainability.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be surrounded by a conference for two days
Speaker 1: about the issue of sustainability, with great people speaking. UM.
Speaker 1: It's all about the young generation. These kids in school,
Speaker 1: they care about that, they recycle, they they they they
Speaker 1: really work things through. And companies have to start having
Speaker 1: a message that matters. UM. And I think that that's
Speaker 1: where somehow those messages get through. You. Can you stick
Speaker 1: around a bit? I have a bunch of more questions
Speaker 1: for you. We have been speaking with Fern Malice of
Speaker 1: the Firm Alice Consultancy and fashion icons at the Street. Y.
Speaker 1: If you enjoy this conversation, be sure and stick around
Speaker 1: for the podcast extras. Will we keep the tape rolling
Speaker 1: and continue discussing all things fashion. You can find that
Speaker 1: wherever your Finer podcasts are sold iTunes, Overcast, Stitcher, Bloomberg
Speaker 1: dot com. We love your comments, feedback and suggestions Right
Speaker 1: to us at m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net.
Speaker 1: Follow me on Twitter at Rid Halts. You can check
Speaker 1: out my daily column at Bloomberg dot com m slash Opinion.
Speaker 1: I'm Barry with Holts. You're listening to Masters in Business
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. Welcome to the podcast, Fern. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for doing this. I've been looking forward to
Speaker 1: having this conversation. I was going to drag my wife
Speaker 1: in UM because she spent a long time teaching fashion
Speaker 1: illustration and Design UM and has since retired. But uh,
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of other things I wanted to get
Speaker 1: to that I didn't, including fashion icons with Fern Malice.
Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about the series you
Speaker 1: do with the Street. Why how did the idea for
Speaker 1: this come up? And and tell us a little about
Speaker 1: the program. Well, I'm very, very proud of this, this series,
Speaker 1: almost as proud as I am of having created some
Speaker 1: week UM because yeah, now it really means a lot
Speaker 1: to me. And when I left i MG Fashion, when
Speaker 1: the tents we're moving from Brian Park to Lincoln Center,
Speaker 1: it was time for me to leave. I said, you
Speaker 1: know what, I've done this for almost nineteen years at
Speaker 1: Brian Park. It was my baby. It's moving to a
Speaker 1: new location, which I wasn't basically so thrilled with. Neither
Speaker 1: was the industry. And it's out of there already. UM,
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, I needed break and so
Speaker 1: I took I took time off. I was happily able
Speaker 1: to do that. UM. And I experienced what I call
Speaker 1: and it's in my book, because I have a book
Speaker 1: called Fashion Lives from this series. Um, what became the
Speaker 1: coffee phase of my life, which meant that all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, I'm I'm trying to just chill
Speaker 1: and enjoy my house in the country, and and I'd
Speaker 1: get calls can I meet you for a cup of coffee?
Speaker 1: I have this idea I want to talk to you about.
Speaker 1: I have this new project coming. Can we go out
Speaker 1: for a cup of coffee? My friend told me I
Speaker 1: should talk to you. You're a good one to help
Speaker 1: me on this new startup. Can we have a cup
Speaker 1: of coffee? I said. Everybody wanted to take me out
Speaker 1: for a cup of coffee. Nobody wanted lunch of dinner.
Speaker 1: It was just coffee. I was crazy. Um, And it
Speaker 1: was oddly enough, over a cup of tea and a
Speaker 1: good friend of mine, a photographer, Timothy Greenfield Sanders, who said,
Speaker 1: I'm going to introduce you a friend of mine, Betsy,
Speaker 1: who's uh, who handles speaking tours and all this. You
Speaker 1: have great stories and to tell about ps. She introduces
Speaker 1: me to Susan Engle from Street wy Is ahead of
Speaker 1: their programming, and we have a cup of coffee and
Speaker 1: she said, you know, we've always loved fashion up here
Speaker 1: at the Y. We've done one offs, you know, Diane
Speaker 1: from Furstenberg has been up here or this one or
Speaker 1: Calvin through the years, but nothing that's been concrete, like
Speaker 1: a series. And they do have some very good series there.
Speaker 1: And for people who don't know, the sty is truly
Speaker 1: the pre eminent cultural and stitution in New York. I
Speaker 1: mean President's prime ministers, authors, actors, celebrity, anybody doing anything
Speaker 1: that matters it gets up there and and is interviewed
Speaker 1: or talk to somebody in their auditoriums um, it's extraordinary place.
Speaker 1: You can go there three fifty days a year and
Speaker 1: every night there's something politics. It's unbelievable. So Susan said,
Speaker 1: would you be interested interviewing fashion designers and doing something
Speaker 1: with us, and I said, you know, I'm the usually
Speaker 1: the one being interviewed, but I'm sure I could string
Speaker 1: together some intelligent questions. We named it Fashion Icons with
Speaker 1: Fern Malice, and she said, let's see if we can
Speaker 1: get some good people. So the first one was Norma
Speaker 1: Camali and there's an old, old pal and I think
Speaker 1: one of the most creative designers in the world. And
Speaker 1: the next one was Calvin Klein. And when I had
Speaker 1: Calvin on the stage, I said to him, one of
Speaker 1: my first questions to him was, why are you doing this.
Speaker 1: You're out of your business. You sold it. At that moment,
Speaker 1: it was like over ten years ago. You have nothing
Speaker 1: to sell and pitch, no new fragance, nothing coming out.
Speaker 1: And he said, I'm doing it because you asked me,
Speaker 1: and I'm doing it for you, and I'm doing because
Speaker 1: the why you know, he talked about important to why
Speaker 1: I was and I was like, good answer. And that
Speaker 1: kicked off this series where people buy tickets and it
Speaker 1: was like eight or nine hundred people in the auditorium
Speaker 1: and it's been Calvin and Donna and Tommy Hilfiger and
Speaker 1: Tom Ford and Mark Jacobs and Andre Leon Tally and Diane,
Speaker 1: and it just goes on and on and on, and
Speaker 1: it's now in my eighth year. I do maybe it depends.
Speaker 1: Scheduling is a nightmare some years six or seven. Some
Speaker 1: years it's ten. Some years it's three. You're not too
Speaker 1: far away from a hundred. Well, I'm forty forty three,
Speaker 1: and that might get I have a lot of people
Speaker 1: on the horizon, but dates are not confirmed. But I mean,
Speaker 1: in addition to the people I mentioned, I've done Leonard Lauder,
Speaker 1: you know who was one an extraordinary interview. Mr Valentino,
Speaker 1: Victoria Beckham Emon and Cindy Crawford and the Massonis and UM,
Speaker 1: Alexander Wang and Zach Posen, and I mean just the whole,
Speaker 1: the whole group. I just said our Arthur L. Gore,
Speaker 1: the photographer UM. In December, I did Peter Marino, the
Speaker 1: architect who talk about retail is retail important. On one
Speaker 1: Street in Manhattan, from Street from Madison to Fifth. He's
Speaker 1: designed the Fendi store, the Door store at the Chanel Store,
Speaker 1: the Zena store, the Louis Utan store, and Bulgary. It's
Speaker 1: one architect and his office has done all of that
Speaker 1: in a block. I mean, it's extraordinary and creating experiences
Speaker 1: that make you want to come in those stores and
Speaker 1: spend time there and buy something. So you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's the with and breath of the industry. Um. So
Speaker 1: if people want to find either the video or audio
Speaker 1: of fashion icons with fern Malice at where do they
Speaker 1: go from? You can go to the Wise YouTube channel
Speaker 1: and put in fern Malice and fashion icons and you
Speaker 1: can get, um like a three to five minute clip. Um,
Speaker 1: the whole interview is not available. Well, when are we
Speaker 1: going to make that available? You know this whole podcasting
Speaker 1: thing is going to be big one day. We have
Speaker 1: to have you actually and how long did these conversations? Minutes?
Speaker 1: An hour? Usually an hour and a half. And uh
Speaker 1: and I'd say a life story. It's it is the
Speaker 1: definitive interview of these people's lives. I walk out of
Speaker 1: there and you learned who they are? How how did
Speaker 1: you become this person? You grew up Most of these
Speaker 1: people grew up with nothing and had started a business
Speaker 1: with nothing. And I'm fascinated, how do you build a
Speaker 1: billion dollar business? How did who did you fire? How
Speaker 1: did you when you made your first sale? Well? Who who?
Speaker 1: So the tables in did you need to hire ten people.
Speaker 1: How much money did you need to borrow? How do
Speaker 1: you do this? How did it go to the next step,
Speaker 1: and how did it go to that? You know, to
Speaker 1: hear Michael Cores tell his story about being on the
Speaker 1: you know, ringing the bell when the Stockholm public you know,
Speaker 1: and his mother looking up at him at the podium
Speaker 1: going fiction tie you know, I mean, you know he
Speaker 1: said it was better than his bar mitzvah, you know,
Speaker 1: and I mean wonderful stories of these people's lives and careers.
Speaker 1: So we have to get this stuff. We have to
Speaker 1: free the content, get it out from behind wherever it is.
Speaker 1: And uh, well, we'll help you do that. That'll be
Speaker 1: easy enough to do. So I only have you for
Speaker 1: a limited amount of time, and I wanted to get
Speaker 1: to my favorite questions I asked all of my guests.
Speaker 1: So we'll put you on the hot seat for a
Speaker 1: few minutes. Let's start with an easy one. Tell us
Speaker 1: the most important thing people don't know about Fern malice.
Speaker 1: M hmm, what is the muscle? I mean, not really
Speaker 1: a soft inter real pussy cat. People think, um, your
Speaker 1: reputation as you're a tough cookie, but you're telling me.
Speaker 1: It's marshmallow inside. All right. That's good to know your
Speaker 1: assistant is laughing at behind your back, just so you know,
Speaker 1: do you agree with that? Um? Who are some of
Speaker 1: your early mentors who influenced your career? You know, I'd
Speaker 1: have to say my dad, my uncle's um my, my sisters, um,
Speaker 1: you know this family around me. There were there were
Speaker 1: a few in business, but I never was that like
Speaker 1: satched myself to somebody. What about designers who influenced the
Speaker 1: way you look at clothing and fashion? All of all
Speaker 1: of them, all of the above, Madelin, all right here, So, um,
Speaker 1: let's talk about books. Not the one you wrote, will
Speaker 1: include that in all of our links. But what are
Speaker 1: the same some of your favorite books? What do you
Speaker 1: read to relax fashion? Non fashions? You know when I
Speaker 1: reach relaxed or you know, three or four newspapers every
Speaker 1: every day. Um. But you know, one of my favorite
Speaker 1: books of all time is a book called A Thousand
Speaker 1: White Women. It is so good. Get it on Amazon
Speaker 1: one White Women. What's it about? It's about a time
Speaker 1: when President Grant was the president and and they were
Speaker 1: looking to assimilate some of the Indian tribes and bought
Speaker 1: and take their land basically. Um, so there was a
Speaker 1: deal struck between um, some of the Indian chiefs two
Speaker 1: give well with the chiefs and the administration to give
Speaker 1: them the tribes a thousand white women to become part
Speaker 1: of their tribes, to assimilate the cultures. It's quite fascinating.
Speaker 1: But I've also just starting the Becoming Michelle Obama's which
Speaker 1: is best selling book, and I think it was released
Speaker 1: in either end of November December. And I went to
Speaker 1: see her talk at Barkley Center and she's great. That
Speaker 1: met her and a couple of times since extraordinary, very
Speaker 1: nice short dress. Well, she was very important to the
Speaker 1: fashion industry, was she? That she wore so many young
Speaker 1: designers and unknown designers and up and coming designers and
Speaker 1: established designers, and she fashion was a huge messaging for her.
Speaker 1: When was the last time we saw a first lady
Speaker 1: who did that? Is that Jackie? Oh? Jackie was an
Speaker 1: important one. Um, then it wasn't oh, but it was
Speaker 1: jack Jackie Kennedy. Yes, Um, I think Michelle o Well,
Speaker 1: you know Nancy Reagan had her fashion moments with Gallanos
Speaker 1: and certain designers that she wore An Arnold skazzi and um,
Speaker 1: but Michelle Obama was a champion of the American fashion
Speaker 1: industry quite quite fascinating. Um, so what are you excited
Speaker 1: about in the fashion industry right now? M'm I'm excited
Speaker 1: about seeing what's going to be coming up in the
Speaker 1: next few weeks and how things are going to evolve
Speaker 1: and change. And is this an important important fashion especially
Speaker 1: important fashion show for or is this Well, it's the
Speaker 1: first of this year, it's the you know, it's the
Speaker 1: fall collections that we're going to be seeing. Um, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's fashion Week, It's there's another one going to be
Speaker 1: in September. So so tell us about a time you
Speaker 1: failed and what you learned from the experience. You know,
Speaker 1: I wish, I I can't. I don't remember something where
Speaker 1: I could say I really failed at it. I mean
Speaker 1: I've been a good, good girl. Um. You know, well,
Speaker 1: I don't mean a bit. I mean sometimes you try
Speaker 1: something and it doesn't work out, and there's a life
Speaker 1: lesson in it, not necessarily good versus bad. But gee,
Speaker 1: that didn't turn out the way I was hoping. But
Speaker 1: here's my takeaway. The most recent one was the chicken
Speaker 1: soup I made last weekend, I bought a really expensive
Speaker 1: free range chicken and it was tasteless. So the soup
Speaker 1: wasn't as good as my normal chicken soup really because
Speaker 1: it just didn't have all that fat and it just
Speaker 1: you know, the chicken didn't fight part the same way,
Speaker 1: So that was a mini failure. Um, what do you
Speaker 1: do for fun? What do you do outside of work
Speaker 1: to either relax or you know, stay busy and interested? What? What?
Speaker 1: What non fashioned stuff keeps you occupied? I have a
Speaker 1: house out in the East End, and I love going
Speaker 1: out there, thank god. It keeps me sane and it's
Speaker 1: not a lake, and I just so enjoy being there.
Speaker 1: I'm a very good gardener, and I do like cooking
Speaker 1: on the weekends in spite of my not so great
Speaker 1: chicken soup. Have you become a year round hamp tonight,
Speaker 1: because that's been more and more totally Yeah, for years.
Speaker 1: I think it mostly became a much more year round
Speaker 1: after nine eleven, I'd say, but I think about because
Speaker 1: people started moving out there and getting out there and
Speaker 1: living out there. But um, yeah, I've had that house
Speaker 1: since I was at the cfd A, and I remember
Speaker 1: a moment when I thought I can't do this. I'm
Speaker 1: not married. Why am I buying a house by myself?
Speaker 1: And I said, what am I going to have at
Speaker 1: the end of this ten years? Here? A lot of
Speaker 1: clothes to show for it? You know, it's the best
Speaker 1: decision I've ever made in my life. So what sort
Speaker 1: of advice would you give to a millennial or a
Speaker 1: recent college graduate who's interested in a career in fashion?
Speaker 1: I'd say why, Um, I'd say, you know, like every
Speaker 1: other thing you're interested in, become a sponge, just absorbital
Speaker 1: and just shut up a little bit and listen, you know,
Speaker 1: just listen. You don't you don't really have the answers
Speaker 1: to everything, um, as much as they think they do.
Speaker 1: Uh I and I think we need to at some
Speaker 1: point also listen more to some of these millennials. And finally,
Speaker 1: what is it that you know about the world of
Speaker 1: fashion and marketing today that you wish you knew thirty
Speaker 1: or so years ago when you were really gearing up
Speaker 1: your career. It's hard to say, because I wish thirty
Speaker 1: years ago I understood technology the way we have it now,
Speaker 1: because it's it's it's just so different. But if I
Speaker 1: could have done something differently, then I would have learned
Speaker 1: more about finance and business and numbers. I mean I
Speaker 1: never took that very seriously. I always said, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: on the creative side. Let somebody else worry about that.
Speaker 1: And I think that's important to always have an understanding
Speaker 1: and a grip on the financial implications inside of everything
Speaker 1: you're working on. Quite fascinating. We have been speaking with
Speaker 1: Fern Malice. She is the head of Malice LLC as
Speaker 1: well as the creator of Fashion Week, runs the Fashion
Speaker 1: Icons with Fern Malice at the Street Why. If you
Speaker 1: enjoy this conversation, be sure and look up an Inch
Speaker 1: or down an Inch on Apple iTunes and you can
Speaker 1: see any of the other two hundred and fifty or
Speaker 1: so of these conversations we've put together over the past
Speaker 1: five years. We love your comments, feedback and suggestions. If
Speaker 1: you're not happy with this show, well right to us
Speaker 1: at m IB podcast at Bloomberg dot net and tell
Speaker 1: us why. If you are happy, go to Apple iTunes
Speaker 1: and give us a good review. We'd appreciate that. I
Speaker 1: would be remiss if I did not thank the crack
Speaker 1: staff who helps put together these conversations each week. Medina
Speaker 1: Parwana is our producer. Caroline O'Brien is my audio engineer.
Speaker 1: UH Taylor Riggs is our booker. Michael bat Nick is
Speaker 1: my head of research. Attica val Brunn is our project manager.
Speaker 1: I'm Barry Ritolts. You've been listening to Masker's Business on
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radiom