Speaker 1: Hey, fam I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the
Speaker 1: Red Table Pop podcast all your favorite episodes from the
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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review
Speaker 1: on Apple podcasts. On this Red Table talk what was
Speaker 1: the worst betrayal by a woman friend? We as black
Speaker 1: women give me so cruel to each other. We don't
Speaker 1: even take care of our own. We don't talk about
Speaker 1: it a lot. With the whole Mega Stallion situation, Jamal
Speaker 1: Hill and Carrie Champion joined the table. People were trying
Speaker 1: actively to pit us against each other. I had a
Speaker 1: rough couple of years. It was bad. I didn't have
Speaker 1: any friends for a raw conversation about how we as
Speaker 1: women treat each other. Somebody who was close to me
Speaker 1: was trying to take me out, and the pay mother's
Speaker 1: passed to their daughters when you get let down that way,
Speaker 1: it's just it's really really hard. So it hurts for
Speaker 1: me to fill it for her. Today, we're doing a
Speaker 1: show about mean girl. We can relate in so many
Speaker 1: different ways. Have either of you ever been a mean girl?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say I'm a mean girl. I'm gonna tell
Speaker 1: you what I am, and that's a petty bitch. I'm
Speaker 1: a petty bitch because here's the thing. Now, I might
Speaker 1: not say some mean things and I might not do
Speaker 1: some mean things, but if you do something to me, baby,
Speaker 1: let me tell you, I'm gonna hold on to it
Speaker 1: and to the moment comes for you. And they'll be like, oh,
Speaker 1: what did you what you need me? I at a
Speaker 1: point in my life was just mean to everything because
Speaker 1: I was hurting and I was angry and I was
Speaker 1: going through a lot of stuff. People will say that
Speaker 1: I'm me. They would definitely say that I'm me. That
Speaker 1: there's a difference in the meanness. I'm not for the nonsense,
Speaker 1: I'm not for the ble. Probably one of my worst
Speaker 1: character defects is being judge gudgmental. I'm extremely judgmental, and
Speaker 1: I actually just realized that it's my own insecurities. I
Speaker 1: didn't even realize that that's where that judgment comes from,
Speaker 1: you know. So what I don't like in somebody else
Speaker 1: is what I don't like in myself. Real talk, I'm
Speaker 1: definitely a work in progress. Well, we all are. Recently,
Speaker 1: when Mega Stallion went through a very painful and personal trauma,
Speaker 1: a disturbing reaction unfolded. Women came out in full force,
Speaker 1: publicly mocking and criticizing and doubting Meg. Meg clapped back
Speaker 1: at the hurtful gossip, urging women to check themselves before
Speaker 1: being nasty to other women. It got us all really
Speaker 1: thinking about how we as black women treat one another
Speaker 1: and the roots of this toxic mean girl culture. It
Speaker 1: was really jarring to me because it was almost like
Speaker 1: we don't even take care of our own, right, So
Speaker 1: that was that's really painful too. That way we are
Speaker 1: as a culture are attacking one another absolutely, and even
Speaker 1: we as black women understanding what we're up against culturally
Speaker 1: and in society, right, and so it was really disheartening
Speaker 1: to But were you guys really surprised, because I wasn't.
Speaker 1: I kind of was. I kind of was considering that
Speaker 1: it's coming from black women, right. We have some guests
Speaker 1: that are going to join us today. I think we're
Speaker 1: missing a big part of the story. I think everyone
Speaker 1: knows this. The NBA is a business, So let me
Speaker 1: get this straight. Sports anchors Carry Champion and Jamal Hill
Speaker 1: started off his rivals, two black women competing for the
Speaker 1: same high profile hoole spot. At ESPN carry got the job.
Speaker 1: Even though they were pitted against each other, the two
Speaker 1: forced an unlikely friendship, often defending one another when no
Speaker 1: one else would. Now they've joined forces to co host
Speaker 1: their own series. Welcome back to Sports, Jamal. We're still here.
Speaker 1: We're obviously we're doing something, okay, proving sisterhood can prevail.
Speaker 1: We're so exciting you were having coming here with them
Speaker 1: last We're so happy to have you here. We were
Speaker 1: about every everything. So you started your relationship as rivals
Speaker 1: for the same jobs. People were trying actively to pick
Speaker 1: us against each other. My agent is in my ear.
Speaker 1: He's like, look, just stay away from Jamal. She's supposed
Speaker 1: to get this job, don't. I'm right right right, you know.
Speaker 1: I'm just listening to all of this stuff. The streets
Speaker 1: was talking social media and people are like, you should
Speaker 1: have that job. It shouldn't be heard. And I just
Speaker 1: didn't want that to be our story. So from the beginning,
Speaker 1: I was like, she's gonna be my friend. Like the
Speaker 1: job was really hard. It was very hard. I felt
Speaker 1: very lonely. I felt afraid I didn't have any friends.
Speaker 1: I feel like no one liked me, which because no
Speaker 1: one did but she wasn't projecting, but she truly reached
Speaker 1: out to me. Then was like, we're gonna go to dinner,
Speaker 1: and I unwillingly went five minutes and she's like, let
Speaker 1: me tell you what ain't treating you right? Let me
Speaker 1: tell you who you work with, ain't nothing. The girls
Speaker 1: don't like you. You need to demand better. They disrespecting you.
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, oh, so much, everything right, because
Speaker 1: at that point I was sort of a o G
Speaker 1: in the system. So you know, I'm trying to break
Speaker 1: her down. Let me give you what it is. And
Speaker 1: it's like, I now understand why she totally would question
Speaker 1: my motives. Because sometimes when you get in that kind
Speaker 1: of position and then there's somebody else, another woman that's like,
Speaker 1: oh do this, they might be plotting on the load.
Speaker 1: My first thought is to be skeptical. Why are you
Speaker 1: sitting down immediately telling me don't like this person? And
Speaker 1: like this person, I'm grown, I'm growing as hell whenever
Speaker 1: I want to like. So we have this dinner. I
Speaker 1: walk away feeling so confused because her spirit is so pure, right,
Speaker 1: I like her, but then I'm like, day, she's talking
Speaker 1: so much. She continuously reached out to me after that dinner,
Speaker 1: she went out of her way to be kind to me. Um,
Speaker 1: I had had a rough couple of years. I'm not lying.
Speaker 1: It was bad. People try to divide us. I mean,
Speaker 1: please consistently, she would tell me, without gossiping. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: don't like you. Why why do you think no one
Speaker 1: liked you? And you all can relate to this, like
Speaker 1: I like to be great at what I do right,
Speaker 1: and I'm a hard worker, and I demand a lot
Speaker 1: for myself and from others. And if you present and
Speaker 1: look a certain way, you're coming in with a little
Speaker 1: skirt and high heels, people like, who do you think
Speaker 1: she is? And I'm aware of it, so I and
Speaker 1: I don't change who I am because that's who I
Speaker 1: am at my core. But I can count on my
Speaker 1: hands how many friends I've ever had that have never
Speaker 1: been jealous of me in any moment I tried to
Speaker 1: throw me under the bus, and she was truly one
Speaker 1: of them. Jamal, tell me why it was so important,
Speaker 1: like for you because you're like, no, she's gonna be
Speaker 1: my right, because sometimes that's what it takes. You talk
Speaker 1: about the dedication. Sometimes it's like oh no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: we know only two black women here doing this thing.
Speaker 1: We're not We're not about to do that. I've just
Speaker 1: had seen too many situations, especially there at ESPN, where
Speaker 1: people really started battling and hating each other and it
Speaker 1: turned out it was really over nothing, over nonsense. As
Speaker 1: black women, we can't afford to do that as it is.
Speaker 1: It's hard enough once we get into that room, Once
Speaker 1: we get to that position, we bring in a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of battles with us. Right, So what do I
Speaker 1: look like with this woman who's come to ESPN getting
Speaker 1: this position being her enemy? I think in a lot
Speaker 1: of environments that we get into as black female professionals, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: we're made to believe it can only be one. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: we only have room for one. I think it's fighting
Speaker 1: for that acceptance. It's feeling like you had to fight
Speaker 1: so hard to get that specific kind of acceptance to
Speaker 1: be in this specific position, and then when someone else
Speaker 1: comes in, like, oh, no, you're not gonna wipe away
Speaker 1: all the work that I did to get myself here,
Speaker 1: did you wipe I was talking to one of our
Speaker 1: young producers here. One of the things that she brought
Speaker 1: up is the idea of survival over sisterhood, survival before sisterhood,
Speaker 1: And this is one of those instances where you were like, no, no,
Speaker 1: we can survive systems. Well, I don't think. I don't
Speaker 1: think people get that. That's powerful, and that's why we
Speaker 1: find ourselves in competition with other women, other women. Now, Jamale,
Speaker 1: you went through your own firestorm. Yeah, and I had
Speaker 1: some thoughts about our president that I shared on Twitter
Speaker 1: and let everybody know, and it created quite a firestorm
Speaker 1: and professionally put me at risk. And you know, the
Speaker 1: whole country if I like, the whole country was bad
Speaker 1: at me. The president called for me to be fired.
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the more outrageous comments that
Speaker 1: anyone could make, and certainly something that I think is
Speaker 1: firable offense about ESPN. No one had her back, no one,
Speaker 1: like I can count on my hands how many people
Speaker 1: had her back within the system. Oh yeah, listen. I
Speaker 1: would just send a tweet. I would just say I
Speaker 1: got your back, or what's happening isn't right. I would
Speaker 1: tweet very comfortably because the lack of support from black
Speaker 1: women was so crystal clear at that moment. This woman
Speaker 1: had made this company millions and give them straight credibility.
Speaker 1: They had put her in a position to win and
Speaker 1: survive and thrive and one hint of controversy, and they
Speaker 1: took that all away from her and they and while
Speaker 1: she left on her own accord because she couldn't thrive
Speaker 1: there for her old mental you know, sanity. The way
Speaker 1: that they treated her, the same people who loved her
Speaker 1: one day next day. I have never seen anything like
Speaker 1: it in my life. That's how it goes. But it
Speaker 1: was that kind of support is why I was able
Speaker 1: to weather all the things that happened. And that's when
Speaker 1: you find out who really is now for you, because
Speaker 1: that's when you really find out who's not. Yes. So
Speaker 1: with the whole Mega stallion situation, I think really the
Speaker 1: disappointing part is just with black women period. We can
Speaker 1: be so hard and cruel to one another. I'm not
Speaker 1: surprised that so much of that energy, unfortunately came from
Speaker 1: Black women. It's our inability to see the humanity and
Speaker 1: each other. We're begging the world to see us in
Speaker 1: a particular way, but we don't see it in each other.
Speaker 1: We don't and it is for me so frustrating and
Speaker 1: painful that we're begging for the world to to see
Speaker 1: us in a certain manner, and we just we can't
Speaker 1: offer it for ourselves. And my belief is that if
Speaker 1: we can't give it to ourselves, we never we can't
Speaker 1: expect it, right. I just feel like it's it's such
Speaker 1: a distance, you know, between being a black woman and
Speaker 1: her self love. There's there's this big chasm between them two,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And a lot of it
Speaker 1: is the way we've been socialized, as I love it
Speaker 1: is the way we've been socialized in our own home.
Speaker 1: Is that, honestly, some of our mothers have been really
Speaker 1: responsible for the toxic relationships we have with other women.
Speaker 1: It's like how we hear our mothers talk about other
Speaker 1: black women don't trust her, she ain't this and that.
Speaker 1: Like we'll hear them have a full scale conversation with
Speaker 1: another black woman that's their friend. As soon as they
Speaker 1: get off the phone, they someday like it would mean
Speaker 1: we see it right, and we take those lessons of
Speaker 1: mistrust that are bred in our own home, and then
Speaker 1: when we get out in the world and we're looking
Speaker 1: at another black woman, instead of celebrating her finding something
Speaker 1: great about it, we'll be like she thinks she cute
Speaker 1: with them shoes? What about this? What about that? I
Speaker 1: think it's how we're loved. Like I know, for me
Speaker 1: not having a father around, really, it's hard for me
Speaker 1: to be vulnerable. It's hard for me to love you
Speaker 1: and trust you and be around you and say who
Speaker 1: I am and love myself because I think lot of
Speaker 1: the times the women I see who have self love,
Speaker 1: how to father around to remind them and love them
Speaker 1: and their first lessons of beauty. Those of us who
Speaker 1: had to grow up without a father. But we grow
Speaker 1: up in violent neighborhoods and we have to put up
Speaker 1: these walls and this armor, and then you click up
Speaker 1: with a group of girls and then you end up
Speaker 1: being you know, you get betrayed. We come from so
Speaker 1: many worlds of mistrust and trauma that it makes it
Speaker 1: very difficult. It's how we've all been taught. Eventually, the
Speaker 1: press begin to take on the traits of the oppressor,
Speaker 1: and that is that's where we're mirroring the patriarchy and
Speaker 1: the sexism and the misogynists and all of that that
Speaker 1: we have to deal with. We're just turning it on
Speaker 1: each other. And unfortunately we've been conditioned this way for
Speaker 1: so long. We literally spend a lot of time on learning.
Speaker 1: That is my biggest piece of advice to people out
Speaker 1: there is that if you want to be different, if
Speaker 1: you want to be the change you want to see,
Speaker 1: as they say, you have to unlearn, okay, and you
Speaker 1: have to be willing to be self aware enough to
Speaker 1: know where you're vulnerable, where your most pettitous. You have
Speaker 1: to be realistic about the ugly that that's the only one, right.
Speaker 1: We also got to be honest that a lot of
Speaker 1: us are doing performative sisterhood, which is straight up sisterhood,
Speaker 1: because we have, certainly all of us have encountered those
Speaker 1: women who you know, at the women's conference, at the
Speaker 1: you know, little get together, they're like woman is black man,
Speaker 1: that being the most trifling backstabbing to remember that one time,
Speaker 1: when that one time, like like they all there too,
Speaker 1: it looks good. They're only doing this because we used
Speaker 1: to sounds because but like, deep down their actions they
Speaker 1: are not supporting other women at all. We have at
Speaker 1: our jobs. Remember when the athletes would be friendly with us,
Speaker 1: right and then the wives start talking like hey girl,
Speaker 1: hey girl, and I'm like wait. We'd be like wait,
Speaker 1: do they like us to do everything? They're trying to
Speaker 1: sleep with their man, or they'll say that when they're there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you see that same woman out socially somewhere else, and
Speaker 1: she will treat you like listen here, I just look.
Speaker 1: I might be getting a little five met the journalism
Speaker 1: here because and you will recognize, like, no one's perfect,
Speaker 1: but you will recognize the sisterhood. We don't do that.
Speaker 1: What would you say was the worst betrayal by a
Speaker 1: woman friend? I had a cousin, actually who have but
Speaker 1: we've settled our differences now. She like developed super faster
Speaker 1: than me, and she had like the long flowing hair
Speaker 1: and my hair. You know, I got the afro vibe,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I was super skinny. I
Speaker 1: was like tomboy. And I would always tell her the
Speaker 1: dudes that I liked. Like, I was always be like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, he's okay. Every time she went for that,
Speaker 1: she would date him every time. And so after like
Speaker 1: three times, I was like, you know what, Ye're the
Speaker 1: dumb one. Keep her, you keep on telling her she's
Speaker 1: going for those guys. Well, I'll tell you I had
Speaker 1: a girlfriend who brought some dudes to my house who
Speaker 1: stole my I d and got my name caught up
Speaker 1: in a credit card scamp somebody who was close to me,
Speaker 1: like trying to take me out. Yeah, that that goes
Speaker 1: to show you how like envy. You know, I really
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of us get so riddled with envy,
Speaker 1: like envy or justify so much like it's one of
Speaker 1: the most destructior. There's no resolving, there's nov it's envy.
Speaker 1: There's nothing, you know, and there's a lot of that
Speaker 1: that just happens amongst women. What about you too. I
Speaker 1: don't have to say this within context because I don't
Speaker 1: I don't want the headline to be she said her
Speaker 1: mother betrayed her right and so but that is probably
Speaker 1: my deepest betrayal. You know, my mother is a recovering
Speaker 1: addict um and we went through a lot when I
Speaker 1: was growing up, and um, you know, there were some
Speaker 1: incidents that we had where I felt, um, you know, like, oh,
Speaker 1: surely I know, you know she's got a bad drug habit,
Speaker 1: but they won't go there. And when it went there,
Speaker 1: it just left me with this incredible sense of disappointment
Speaker 1: and to be that vulnerable and then for it to
Speaker 1: happen with a parent. I think it trained you the
Speaker 1: rest of your life. And so, unfortunately, one of the
Speaker 1: things that I still struggle with is that it is
Speaker 1: very hard for me to be vulnerable. I have repaired
Speaker 1: our relationship. She's great, but I think a lot of
Speaker 1: the betrayal I experienced with her growing up unfortunately. Um
Speaker 1: you know, my therapist said this to me one day,
Speaker 1: and it really sat home with me, is that childhood
Speaker 1: lasts forever. It lasts forever, and so I didn't realize
Speaker 1: that until I got good and grown and much more
Speaker 1: self aware and much more um comfortable going into those
Speaker 1: deep parts that I realized that because of that sense
Speaker 1: of betrayal, it impacted how I was able to even
Speaker 1: have certain friendships. Not a lot of people get here
Speaker 1: because I learned that blockade early. So once I experienced
Speaker 1: that sense of betrayal, it didn't fortunately stay with me,
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to unlearn that. So I don't always
Speaker 1: keep people there when you get let down that way.
Speaker 1: It's just it's really really hard. Well that's my story too.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we've had a lot of healing,
Speaker 1: but it does you know, your childhood stayed with you
Speaker 1: and you just be like, God, damn it, get away.
Speaker 1: I thought that. Yes, So what are you feeling over there?
Speaker 1: I can Yeah, it hurts for me to feel it
Speaker 1: from Yeah. One of the things her and I bond
Speaker 1: with the most is our childhood and our parents, and
Speaker 1: we tell the same story. Yeah, scary will be like
Speaker 1: remember when you were seven years old your mom told
Speaker 1: you to go make a drink and you're like that,
Speaker 1: I'm seven drink mom. Or saying things that hurt you
Speaker 1: because they don't see you hurts. Yeah. I think this
Speaker 1: brings up a lot in the sense of like what
Speaker 1: we deal with as a community. We can sit in
Speaker 1: this pain and feel it, and you can imagine that
Speaker 1: people who don't have a way of working it out right,
Speaker 1: you can see how they can strike out at other
Speaker 1: people for their anger, their disappointment, their insecurities just flare up.
Speaker 1: So if you come in and you've got them pretty
Speaker 1: legs somewhere she thinks she cute, she ain'tin't all that,
Speaker 1: you know, you could just see as though strong feelings
Speaker 1: come up, you know, and need a place to release.
Speaker 1: It's like as soon as you see something that you
Speaker 1: can just go at, you know what I mean, and
Speaker 1: you just do it. And well, I don't think my
Speaker 1: mother intentionally is trying to hurt me. I think all
Speaker 1: of her pain is passed on to me because she
Speaker 1: doesn't know how to process it because of what she
Speaker 1: dealt with, right, And so while I'm sure she is
Speaker 1: so very proud of me, there is such a level
Speaker 1: of resentment towards me that she expresses, which hurts me.
Speaker 1: And it probably comes out for you and your relationships
Speaker 1: with other women. For sure. It's really deep. Because a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't have great relationships with their mothers.
Speaker 1: That's probably where it first starts. It's like, if we
Speaker 1: don't really know how to relate to our mother's, then
Speaker 1: how do we learn to relate to ourselves and then
Speaker 1: to others. If I don't have this connection with my mother,
Speaker 1: I haven't been able to be seen through my mother's
Speaker 1: eyes in a certain manner, you know, which that is
Speaker 1: your first them in the mirror, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And so then and trying to learn how to connect
Speaker 1: to other women, and it's hard, hard, and I don't
Speaker 1: know why those relationships are so difficult. Some of it
Speaker 1: is like, you know, black women, we buy into that
Speaker 1: strong black woman facade to a degree that's a detriment
Speaker 1: to us to where we think we can weather and
Speaker 1: withstand anything. And she's from a generation of women, like
Speaker 1: a lot of black women who that's what they did.
Speaker 1: They just sucked it up and kept moving right, And
Speaker 1: it's really painful and hard, and we had to be
Speaker 1: the people who were unfortunately absorbing their trauma right. And
Speaker 1: because we had to absorb it, then we just continue
Speaker 1: to pass it down. And once I realized, like all
Speaker 1: the things I mean my mother happened when she was
Speaker 1: eighteen years old, right, so you know I was seen right,
Speaker 1: so I had to be there. She went through all
Speaker 1: these stages of womanhood and you have to right so
Speaker 1: hard mode was I'm not here to be your friend,
Speaker 1: like we're not here to have this certain kind of relationship.
Speaker 1: I'm here to protect you, to save you from yourself
Speaker 1: and to make sure you don't do any of it up.
Speaker 1: Did so because you know, there wasn't really an opening
Speaker 1: for me to look at my mother as and this
Speaker 1: is the person I tell everything and this is to
Speaker 1: us to have I think the kind of the kind
Speaker 1: of relationship that you guys have now, which is a
Speaker 1: tremendous is that you have that open communication, but no
Speaker 1: open communication right. It was like, got this, this is
Speaker 1: what I gotta be right. I tried to do therapy
Speaker 1: with my mom. It was crazy because she felt too
Speaker 1: vulnerable and as for her, Black women think vulnerability is
Speaker 1: weak and she was so weak and so seen and
Speaker 1: she hated it. She did. She didn't want to see it.
Speaker 1: She was like, I don't remember that happening. You know
Speaker 1: how we bring up stuff, you like, but what about when?
Speaker 1: And you know that didn't happen. You're like, but yeah,
Speaker 1: if we're not saying that right now, it's cool. Like
Speaker 1: I'm going through things that really hurt me when I
Speaker 1: was a kid, and I want to talk about it.
Speaker 1: And for her, it's an indictment on how she raised me.
Speaker 1: She was like, you were alive, right, you you you're
Speaker 1: doing good? Right. I'm like, Mom, no, I just want
Speaker 1: to talk about what happened. Yeah, And it's even with data.
Speaker 1: Was just the opposite because I wanted her to come
Speaker 1: into therapy with me and she refused. You refused only
Speaker 1: because I felt like, oh no, you're not about to
Speaker 1: take me into that abyss of pain and drop me off.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh no, no, we don't need
Speaker 1: to do that. I will figure out my own way
Speaker 1: of how to deal with this, but it is it
Speaker 1: is hard when you talk about, you know, as an indictment.
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes when I listened to Willow, I have
Speaker 1: to just be quiet because it doesn't matter what my
Speaker 1: intention was. It's important for me to just listen. Have
Speaker 1: your reality. As hurtful as it is, it's not about
Speaker 1: trying to make excuses it's really or even explaining to
Speaker 1: her at that moment, it's just about just listening, like,
Speaker 1: you're right, you got to work. I think the friction
Speaker 1: that my mother and I have now is because she
Speaker 1: wants me to judge her by her intention, and I'm
Speaker 1: judging her by her action. And I may realize that
Speaker 1: the action was because she had a good intention, but
Speaker 1: that's not always the way it comes out. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: and she was like, oh, I was just trying to
Speaker 1: protect you. That's her line to excuse everything. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: that doesn't excuse this. And I get that you thought
Speaker 1: this is what was happening, but let me tell you
Speaker 1: what I was receiving. Because she feels like you're saying
Speaker 1: she did something wrong, and it just feels like if
Speaker 1: I'm saying anything just to express my thoughts, she goes
Speaker 1: on defense. She thinks, no one wants to feel wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's just me saying that hurt. Let's work through
Speaker 1: that moment. One of the things that I realized and
Speaker 1: you're talking about when you said nobody wants to be wrong.
Speaker 1: I think specifically for black women, they're always wrong. Word,
Speaker 1: they're always wrong. That's the word. Let me have some empathy.
Speaker 1: I have to keep that in mind, because you're right,
Speaker 1: it's just hard, you know. And it's like for us
Speaker 1: as black women, and even having this conversation is given
Speaker 1: more understanding, even deeper understanding of why we as black
Speaker 1: women could be so cruel to each other. It's not
Speaker 1: you know, it's like we get judged on everything. We
Speaker 1: get judged on how we look, we get judged on
Speaker 1: our hair, we get judged on we can't even love
Speaker 1: who we want to love. We got a white man
Speaker 1: that loves us. That's the problem, you know, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm her like, you're a girl. No, But it's
Speaker 1: really like we can't even love when we want to love.
Speaker 1: I can't even have a fake crush on Chris Evans
Speaker 1: on the Internet, Chris, if you have a girlfriend, ignore
Speaker 1: all this. But if you don't, if you don't like me,
Speaker 1: you can't even have a fake crush on a white
Speaker 1: boy without being a sell out and shame. But the
Speaker 1: Twitter come at me, they told me, I sell out
Speaker 1: to the culture over if you know what, Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: why you wear are we even? You know? We're like
Speaker 1: what you know? But you're right. We're always all, always wrong.
Speaker 1: And I think that's where we as black women, we
Speaker 1: gotta give each other more room. Yeah, each other more case.
Speaker 1: It's like if we don't do it, if it don't
Speaker 1: start with us, it's a done data. There's like we
Speaker 1: literally can't make mistakes. I have a thing about that
Speaker 1: in my own mind, like having to do the right thing,
Speaker 1: like having to know what the right code of conduct is,
Speaker 1: and like having an anxiety if I don't know what
Speaker 1: the right choice is. It probably comes from that feeling
Speaker 1: of like, oh, I was never right. So somebody needs
Speaker 1: to explain to me how I grew up doing so
Speaker 1: much wrong in my young adult days and as a mother,
Speaker 1: and then now I've gotten to this place where I
Speaker 1: think everything that I say is right. How did that happen? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that I think that I'm right all the time, and
Speaker 1: that's where a lot of the judgment it comes from.
Speaker 1: The judgment comes from insecurity, yes, but it also comes
Speaker 1: with this false thinking that I have in my head
Speaker 1: that my way is right and how I was raised
Speaker 1: was the right way. How I dressed is the right way,
Speaker 1: how you dressed is the wrong way because you need
Speaker 1: to be doing what I'm telling you. Where did all
Speaker 1: of that comes from? That's that's that's the truth. That's
Speaker 1: a problem. Honestly, I need. I needed to tell that
Speaker 1: because like, okay, so I saw you. Remember we were
Speaker 1: so excited with our show. We went on gm A.
Speaker 1: Mom was like, so you can wear that. I was like,
Speaker 1: we were talking to Robin Wobbers when we're idols and
Speaker 1: sports but that and then you cled you here that
Speaker 1: way too, and I was just like my mother was
Speaker 1: on me about dropping f bobs and I was just like,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. You remember the house I grew up. We
Speaker 1: forget you think culturally it comes from this concept that
Speaker 1: we have to be hard on each other because the
Speaker 1: world is harder. That's what you would tell me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true, Like you better be hard as nails because
Speaker 1: I had to learn even in raising my kids, I
Speaker 1: had to get up off that because I was still
Speaker 1: in that Baltimore Street mentality. I was like, oh no,
Speaker 1: y'all can't do this and do that because it's too
Speaker 1: danger and I was like hold up day in Calabasas
Speaker 1: more every more, different, field is different. I just want
Speaker 1: to bring up there is a difference between how black
Speaker 1: moms will treat their daughters and their sons. Oh my good, alright,
Speaker 1: let's get I just got to say it because it's real.
Speaker 1: It's true. Let's get that. Let me tell me it's
Speaker 1: I mean I you know, when I was younger, something
Speaker 1: as simple as just like getting up at the right time.
Speaker 1: It would be like you wait, like you better get
Speaker 1: up to me and be like, oh no, no no, school
Speaker 1: school is about to be you better get dressed. We
Speaker 1: need to get that. And it would be like I'd
Speaker 1: be in my room like okay, I gotta get it.
Speaker 1: But then Jane is nul like not seeing Jaden would
Speaker 1: say the different and he'd be like there's maybe one
Speaker 1: moment and then I'd be ready at the door like okay,
Speaker 1: here we go, and he's getting his shoes and he's
Speaker 1: getting point she might have a point because I would
Speaker 1: be like, no, you gotta be on it, you right,
Speaker 1: So where is that right coming from? Its coming from?
Speaker 1: Because I gotta be on it. We gotta be on
Speaker 1: We have to hard, we have to work harder. And
Speaker 1: then and then I'd be like, and his father will
Speaker 1: deal with that, yeah, but you your mind, you know,
Speaker 1: and so it is. I will say, I do be
Speaker 1: getting up. I did getting to work on time, all right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because for me, I knew that she's gonna have it
Speaker 1: twice as hard. I needed you to be strong because
Speaker 1: I know what this world is like for us, it's
Speaker 1: black women. But it works both way. It works because
Speaker 1: whatever is your greatest strength is also your greatest weakness, right,
Speaker 1: And so what happens is as mothers do they have
Speaker 1: to protect us from all things that we're not even
Speaker 1: thinking about. But when you drill that down, is that
Speaker 1: we then we're not only internalize it, but we're going
Speaker 1: to take that and do that to each other. I
Speaker 1: think they have to harden us in the world, and
Speaker 1: then we're never able to be vulnerable with each other. Right, yes,
Speaker 1: right back were I just had a lightball, a lightball
Speaker 1: moment because it's the same damn thing. So my fear
Speaker 1: for having a black daughter and what I felt like
Speaker 1: she needed to be in this world put me in
Speaker 1: a position to be a little harder on her. And
Speaker 1: that's probably how we are with each other. It's real,
Speaker 1: it's a real deal. It's it's a real deal. Most
Speaker 1: of it that raised with the level of harshness that
Speaker 1: sets the expectation, And that's why we're so hard on
Speaker 1: each other because in our own home, Yeah, like you're
Speaker 1: wearing that, don't wear that because this kind of things
Speaker 1: happen to people who wear that, like all those things
Speaker 1: that we wind up repeating, and people would tell me,
Speaker 1: people be like they'd be like, oh my gosh, like
Speaker 1: why are you being so mean? And I'm like, do
Speaker 1: you think this is me? I think that women have
Speaker 1: to This is so hard to do because we're so
Speaker 1: trained and socialized so differently. But we have to throw
Speaker 1: that all out the window and and forget every single
Speaker 1: thing that we have been taught and be willing to
Speaker 1: be uncomfortable with one another, because that's the only time
Speaker 1: that you really see any significant change. Everything in my
Speaker 1: spirit told me that she was great, but I was
Speaker 1: so uncomfortable being vulnerable and open and allowing her to
Speaker 1: be my friend. And I have to be willing to
Speaker 1: get out of that. And I still struggle with it
Speaker 1: to this day. Um. Yeah, because it is a risk.
Speaker 1: It's a risk. It's a risk, and we can't deny that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a risk, and you do have to allow yourself
Speaker 1: an opportunity to get to know the women around you.
Speaker 1: As women, we have to have more responsibility in regards
Speaker 1: of how we take care of one another. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, what we're asking men to do, we
Speaker 1: need to do the same thing of course, as far
Speaker 1: as respecting one another, you know, and and caring for
Speaker 1: one another in a certain manner. What she taught me
Speaker 1: was to hold the door open. Yeah, and I didn't
Speaker 1: know how to do that. So here I am, as
Speaker 1: a grown as adult, just now learning how to hold
Speaker 1: the door open. This was a great table. That's what
Speaker 1: I love about. Like, this was great because we started
Speaker 1: in one direction and ended up going into it was
Speaker 1: it really got Dave. It was awesome. That dog is
Speaker 1: living a life. That's a very well behaved dog. My
Speaker 1: dog would have been here, pan, right, He's like, what
Speaker 1: y'all talking about me? I wouldn't, not even too, but
Speaker 1: he's not poppy. You like cats, have three cats? She
Speaker 1: has three? Do you not? Cat Laid cats are okay,
Speaker 1: but I'm a dog. To join the red Table Talk
Speaker 1: family and become a part of the conversation, follow us
Speaker 1: at facebook dot com slash red table talk. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast produced
Speaker 1: by Facebook, Watch, Westbrook Audio, and I Heart Radio.