WEBVTT - Why Are Women Mean to Each Other? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.720 Hey, fam I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:06.080 Red Table Pop podcast all your favorite episodes from the 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:10.280 Facebook Watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:13.360 I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.680 on Apple podcasts. On this Red Table talk what was 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:22.000 the worst betrayal by a woman friend? We as black 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.040 women give me so cruel to each other. We don't 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:27.640 even take care of our own. We don't talk about 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:32.400 it a lot. With the whole Mega Stallion situation, Jamal 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:35.920 Hill and Carrie Champion joined the table. People were trying 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.960 actively to pit us against each other. I had a 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.159 rough couple of years. It was bad. I didn't have 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:44.920 any friends for a raw conversation about how we as 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:48.040 women treat each other. Somebody who was close to me 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:53.080 was trying to take me out, and the pay mother's 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:56.840 passed to their daughters when you get let down that way, 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:00.120 it's just it's really really hard. So it hurts for 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:10.920 me to fill it for her. Today, we're doing a 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:17.600 show about mean girl. We can relate in so many 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:20.319 different ways. Have either of you ever been a mean girl? 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:22.959 I wouldn't say I'm a mean girl. I'm gonna tell 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.720 you what I am, and that's a petty bitch. I'm 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.840 a petty bitch because here's the thing. Now, I might 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:32.680 not say some mean things and I might not do 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:36.360 some mean things, but if you do something to me, baby, 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:38.520 let me tell you, I'm gonna hold on to it 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.280 and to the moment comes for you. And they'll be like, oh, 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:47.560 what did you what you need me? I at a 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:50.760 point in my life was just mean to everything because 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:52.840 I was hurting and I was angry and I was 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.040 going through a lot of stuff. People will say that 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:57.840 I'm me. They would definitely say that I'm me. That 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:01.320 there's a difference in the meanness. I'm not for the nonsense, 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:03.960 I'm not for the ble. Probably one of my worst 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:11.000 character defects is being judge gudgmental. I'm extremely judgmental, and 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:15.200 I actually just realized that it's my own insecurities. I 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:19.519 didn't even realize that that's where that judgment comes from, 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:23.160 you know. So what I don't like in somebody else 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:27.480 is what I don't like in myself. Real talk, I'm 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:31.040 definitely a work in progress. Well, we all are. Recently, 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.360 when Mega Stallion went through a very painful and personal trauma, 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:38.840 a disturbing reaction unfolded. Women came out in full force, 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:44.000 publicly mocking and criticizing and doubting Meg. Meg clapped back 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:47.600 at the hurtful gossip, urging women to check themselves before 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.480 being nasty to other women. It got us all really 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.720 thinking about how we as black women treat one another 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:58.280 and the roots of this toxic mean girl culture. It 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.359 was really jarring to me because it was almost like 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.320 we don't even take care of our own, right, So 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.239 that was that's really painful too. That way we are 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.800 as a culture are attacking one another absolutely, and even 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:17.280 we as black women understanding what we're up against culturally 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.960 and in society, right, and so it was really disheartening 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:23.640 to But were you guys really surprised, because I wasn't. 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.520 I kind of was. I kind of was considering that 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:29.920 it's coming from black women, right. We have some guests 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:34.240 that are going to join us today. I think we're 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.040 missing a big part of the story. I think everyone 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:37.880 knows this. The NBA is a business, So let me 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:41.760 get this straight. Sports anchors Carry Champion and Jamal Hill 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:45.080 started off his rivals, two black women competing for the 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:51.120 same high profile hoole spot. At ESPN carry got the job. 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.520 Even though they were pitted against each other, the two 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:59.080 forced an unlikely friendship, often defending one another when no 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:03.400 one else would. Now they've joined forces to co host 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:07.360 their own series. Welcome back to Sports, Jamal. We're still here. 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:12.320 We're obviously we're doing something, okay, proving sisterhood can prevail. 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:19.800 We're so exciting you were having coming here with them 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:30.800 last We're so happy to have you here. We were 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:35.480 about every everything. So you started your relationship as rivals 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:39.080 for the same jobs. People were trying actively to pick 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:41.320 us against each other. My agent is in my ear. 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:45.120 He's like, look, just stay away from Jamal. She's supposed 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.880 to get this job, don't. I'm right right right, you know. 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.200 I'm just listening to all of this stuff. The streets 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:54.320 was talking social media and people are like, you should 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:56.440 have that job. It shouldn't be heard. And I just 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.120 didn't want that to be our story. So from the beginning, 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.240 I was like, she's gonna be my friend. Like the 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.160 job was really hard. It was very hard. I felt 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:09.120 very lonely. I felt afraid I didn't have any friends. 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.680 I feel like no one liked me, which because no 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:17.880 one did but she wasn't projecting, but she truly reached 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.120 out to me. Then was like, we're gonna go to dinner, 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.520 and I unwillingly went five minutes and she's like, let 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:24.000 me tell you what ain't treating you right? Let me 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.440 tell you who you work with, ain't nothing. The girls 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:29.600 don't like you. You need to demand better. They disrespecting you. 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:34.960 And I'm just like, oh, so much, everything right, because 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:36.280 at that point I was sort of a o G 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:39.040 in the system. So you know, I'm trying to break 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:42.320 her down. Let me give you what it is. And 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:45.359 it's like, I now understand why she totally would question 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.200 my motives. Because sometimes when you get in that kind 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.039 of position and then there's somebody else, another woman that's like, 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.159 oh do this, they might be plotting on the load. 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:55.359 My first thought is to be skeptical. Why are you 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:57.719 sitting down immediately telling me don't like this person? And 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.320 like this person, I'm grown, I'm growing as hell whenever 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:02.800 I want to like. So we have this dinner. I 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:06.640 walk away feeling so confused because her spirit is so pure, right, 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:08.240 I like her, but then I'm like, day, she's talking 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:13.120 so much. She continuously reached out to me after that dinner, 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:15.839 she went out of her way to be kind to me. Um, 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:17.920 I had had a rough couple of years. I'm not lying. 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:20.560 It was bad. People try to divide us. I mean, 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:25.040 please consistently, she would tell me, without gossiping. Yeah, they 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:28.800 don't like you. Why why do you think no one 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.480 liked you? And you all can relate to this, like 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:33.720 I like to be great at what I do right, 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.640 and I'm a hard worker, and I demand a lot 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:39.000 for myself and from others. And if you present and 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:41.080 look a certain way, you're coming in with a little 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:42.760 skirt and high heels, people like, who do you think 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.280 she is? And I'm aware of it, so I and 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:46.800 I don't change who I am because that's who I 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:48.880 am at my core. But I can count on my 0:06:48.880 --> 0:06:50.520 hands how many friends I've ever had that have never 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:52.720 been jealous of me in any moment I tried to 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:54.480 throw me under the bus, and she was truly one 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:57.279 of them. Jamal, tell me why it was so important, 0:06:57.440 --> 0:06:59.680 like for you because you're like, no, she's gonna be 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:03.000 my right, because sometimes that's what it takes. You talk 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:05.680 about the dedication. Sometimes it's like oh no, no, no, no, 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.480 we know only two black women here doing this thing. 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:11.480 We're not We're not about to do that. I've just 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:15.120 had seen too many situations, especially there at ESPN, where 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:18.760 people really started battling and hating each other and it 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.680 turned out it was really over nothing, over nonsense. As 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.400 black women, we can't afford to do that as it is. 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:26.640 It's hard enough once we get into that room, Once 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:28.840 we get to that position, we bring in a whole 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.320 bunch of battles with us. Right, So what do I 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:35.200 look like with this woman who's come to ESPN getting 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:37.840 this position being her enemy? I think in a lot 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:43.560 of environments that we get into as black female professionals, unfortunately, 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.360 we're made to believe it can only be one. It's like, no, 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.320 we only have room for one. I think it's fighting 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:51.680 for that acceptance. It's feeling like you had to fight 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:56.720 so hard to get that specific kind of acceptance to 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:59.560 be in this specific position, and then when someone else 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.200 comes in, like, oh, no, you're not gonna wipe away 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.280 all the work that I did to get myself here, 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:11.200 did you wipe I was talking to one of our 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.360 young producers here. One of the things that she brought 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:23.240 up is the idea of survival over sisterhood, survival before sisterhood, 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.320 And this is one of those instances where you were like, no, no, 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:30.200 we can survive systems. Well, I don't think. I don't 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:33.200 think people get that. That's powerful, and that's why we 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.640 find ourselves in competition with other women, other women. Now, Jamale, 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:39.079 you went through your own firestorm. Yeah, and I had 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:42.360 some thoughts about our president that I shared on Twitter 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.120 and let everybody know, and it created quite a firestorm 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.680 and professionally put me at risk. And you know, the 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:51.760 whole country if I like, the whole country was bad 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:53.720 at me. The president called for me to be fired. 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:56.200 I think that's one of the more outrageous comments that 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.280 anyone could make, and certainly something that I think is 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:03.559 firable offense about ESPN. No one had her back, no one, 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:05.320 like I can count on my hands how many people 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:07.959 had her back within the system. Oh yeah, listen. I 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.200 would just send a tweet. I would just say I 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:13.640 got your back, or what's happening isn't right. I would 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:19.120 tweet very comfortably because the lack of support from black 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:24.120 women was so crystal clear at that moment. This woman 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:26.640 had made this company millions and give them straight credibility. 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.200 They had put her in a position to win and 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:32.920 survive and thrive and one hint of controversy, and they 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:35.280 took that all away from her and they and while 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.160 she left on her own accord because she couldn't thrive 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:42.080 there for her old mental you know, sanity. The way 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.320 that they treated her, the same people who loved her 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:49.719 one day next day. I have never seen anything like 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:53.360 it in my life. That's how it goes. But it 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:55.120 was that kind of support is why I was able 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:57.559 to weather all the things that happened. And that's when 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.360 you find out who really is now for you, because 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:03.719 that's when you really find out who's not. Yes. So 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:07.440 with the whole Mega stallion situation, I think really the 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.800 disappointing part is just with black women period. We can 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:14.720 be so hard and cruel to one another. I'm not 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:17.720 surprised that so much of that energy, unfortunately came from 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.280 Black women. It's our inability to see the humanity and 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:22.440 each other. We're begging the world to see us in 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.520 a particular way, but we don't see it in each other. 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:31.040 We don't and it is for me so frustrating and 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.960 painful that we're begging for the world to to see 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.640 us in a certain manner, and we just we can't 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.120 offer it for ourselves. And my belief is that if 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:43.880 we can't give it to ourselves, we never we can't 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:48.040 expect it, right. I just feel like it's it's such 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:52.520 a distance, you know, between being a black woman and 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:55.760 her self love. There's there's this big chasm between them two, 0:10:56.160 --> 0:10:58.040 you know what I mean. And a lot of it 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:00.360 is the way we've been socialized, as I love it 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:02.240 is the way we've been socialized in our own home. 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:07.200 Is that, honestly, some of our mothers have been really 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:11.040 responsible for the toxic relationships we have with other women. 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.319 It's like how we hear our mothers talk about other 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:15.679 black women don't trust her, she ain't this and that. 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:18.400 Like we'll hear them have a full scale conversation with 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.960 another black woman that's their friend. As soon as they 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:30.640 get off the phone, they someday like it would mean 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.680 we see it right, and we take those lessons of 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:37.640 mistrust that are bred in our own home, and then 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:39.280 when we get out in the world and we're looking 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.240 at another black woman, instead of celebrating her finding something 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.320 great about it, we'll be like she thinks she cute 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:47.160 with them shoes? What about this? What about that? I 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.720 think it's how we're loved. Like I know, for me 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:52.640 not having a father around, really, it's hard for me 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.000 to be vulnerable. It's hard for me to love you 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:57.839 and trust you and be around you and say who 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.320 I am and love myself because I think lot of 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:02.160 the times the women I see who have self love, 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.360 how to father around to remind them and love them 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.080 and their first lessons of beauty. Those of us who 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.240 had to grow up without a father. But we grow 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.439 up in violent neighborhoods and we have to put up 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.760 these walls and this armor, and then you click up 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.240 with a group of girls and then you end up 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:22.040 being you know, you get betrayed. We come from so 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:26.680 many worlds of mistrust and trauma that it makes it 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.640 very difficult. It's how we've all been taught. Eventually, the 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.000 press begin to take on the traits of the oppressor, 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.640 and that is that's where we're mirroring the patriarchy and 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.440 the sexism and the misogynists and all of that that 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:40.719 we have to deal with. We're just turning it on 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:45.079 each other. And unfortunately we've been conditioned this way for 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.280 so long. We literally spend a lot of time on learning. 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:50.840 That is my biggest piece of advice to people out 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:54.120 there is that if you want to be different, if 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:55.439 you want to be the change you want to see, 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.800 as they say, you have to unlearn, okay, and you 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.120 have to be willing to be self aware enough to 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:07.200 know where you're vulnerable, where your most pettitous. You have 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:12.719 to be realistic about the ugly that that's the only one, right. 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:14.240 We also got to be honest that a lot of 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:24.040 us are doing performative sisterhood, which is straight up sisterhood, 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.440 because we have, certainly all of us have encountered those 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.640 women who you know, at the women's conference, at the 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.079 you know, little get together, they're like woman is black man, 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:39.160 that being the most trifling backstabbing to remember that one time, 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:44.440 when that one time, like like they all there too, 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.360 it looks good. They're only doing this because we used 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:51.760 to sounds because but like, deep down their actions they 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.200 are not supporting other women at all. We have at 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:57.839 our jobs. Remember when the athletes would be friendly with us, 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.880 right and then the wives start talking like hey girl, 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:02.240 hey girl, and I'm like wait. We'd be like wait, 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:03.599 do they like us to do everything? They're trying to 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:08.320 sleep with their man, or they'll say that when they're there. Yeah, 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.520 you see that same woman out socially somewhere else, and 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:18.360 she will treat you like listen here, I just look. 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:19.960 I might be getting a little five met the journalism 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:26.640 here because and you will recognize, like, no one's perfect, 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.360 but you will recognize the sisterhood. We don't do that. 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.040 What would you say was the worst betrayal by a 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:37.080 woman friend? I had a cousin, actually who have but 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:42.480 we've settled our differences now. She like developed super faster 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.480 than me, and she had like the long flowing hair 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.560 and my hair. You know, I got the afro vibe, 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:50.520 you know what I mean. I was super skinny. I 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.680 was like tomboy. And I would always tell her the 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:55.320 dudes that I liked. Like, I was always be like, 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:58.800 oh my god, he's okay. Every time she went for that, 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:03.320 she would date him every time. And so after like 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.280 three times, I was like, you know what, Ye're the 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:10.440 dumb one. Keep her, you keep on telling her she's 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.360 going for those guys. Well, I'll tell you I had 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:17.440 a girlfriend who brought some dudes to my house who 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:21.280 stole my I d and got my name caught up 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:25.440 in a credit card scamp somebody who was close to me, 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:30.200 like trying to take me out. Yeah, that that goes 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:35.800 to show you how like envy. You know, I really 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:39.400 feel like a lot of us get so riddled with envy, 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:46.040 like envy or justify so much like it's one of 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:53.840 the most destructior. There's no resolving, there's nov it's envy. 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.400 There's nothing, you know, and there's a lot of that 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:02.360 that just happens amongst women. What about you too. I 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:04.480 don't have to say this within context because I don't 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.120 I don't want the headline to be she said her 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:11.840 mother betrayed her right and so but that is probably 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.520 my deepest betrayal. You know, my mother is a recovering 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:17.280 addict um and we went through a lot when I 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.480 was growing up, and um, you know, there were some 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:25.160 incidents that we had where I felt, um, you know, like, oh, 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:27.520 surely I know, you know she's got a bad drug habit, 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.640 but they won't go there. And when it went there, 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.840 it just left me with this incredible sense of disappointment 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:36.360 and to be that vulnerable and then for it to 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.560 happen with a parent. I think it trained you the 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.640 rest of your life. And so, unfortunately, one of the 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.200 things that I still struggle with is that it is 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.880 very hard for me to be vulnerable. I have repaired 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.440 our relationship. She's great, but I think a lot of 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:53.600 the betrayal I experienced with her growing up unfortunately. Um 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:55.440 you know, my therapist said this to me one day, 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.600 and it really sat home with me, is that childhood 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:02.520 lasts forever. It lasts forever, and so I didn't realize 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:05.200 that until I got good and grown and much more 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:09.359 self aware and much more um comfortable going into those 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.240 deep parts that I realized that because of that sense 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:16.280 of betrayal, it impacted how I was able to even 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:18.640 have certain friendships. Not a lot of people get here 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:22.720 because I learned that blockade early. So once I experienced 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:25.000 that sense of betrayal, it didn't fortunately stay with me, 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:27.760 and I'm trying to unlearn that. So I don't always 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:31.000 keep people there when you get let down that way. 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:35.440 It's just it's really really hard. Well that's my story too. 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.639 I mean, you know, we've had a lot of healing, 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.159 but it does you know, your childhood stayed with you 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:47.200 and you just be like, God, damn it, get away. 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:53.240 I thought that. Yes, So what are you feeling over there? 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:57.680 I can Yeah, it hurts for me to feel it 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:03.000 from Yeah. One of the things her and I bond 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.960 with the most is our childhood and our parents, and 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:10.120 we tell the same story. Yeah, scary will be like 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:12.720 remember when you were seven years old your mom told 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:13.800 you to go make a drink and you're like that, 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:20.000 I'm seven drink mom. Or saying things that hurt you 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:26.680 because they don't see you hurts. Yeah. I think this 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.800 brings up a lot in the sense of like what 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:34.600 we deal with as a community. We can sit in 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.280 this pain and feel it, and you can imagine that 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:41.440 people who don't have a way of working it out right, 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:43.680 you can see how they can strike out at other 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:48.479 people for their anger, their disappointment, their insecurities just flare up. 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.240 So if you come in and you've got them pretty 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:58.000 legs somewhere she thinks she cute, she ain'tin't all that, 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.840 you know, you could just see as though strong feelings 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.360 come up, you know, and need a place to release. 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:05.760 It's like as soon as you see something that you 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.199 can just go at, you know what I mean, and 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:10.119 you just do it. And well, I don't think my 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.440 mother intentionally is trying to hurt me. I think all 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:16.800 of her pain is passed on to me because she 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:18.720 doesn't know how to process it because of what she 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.280 dealt with, right, And so while I'm sure she is 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:24.560 so very proud of me, there is such a level 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:28.280 of resentment towards me that she expresses, which hurts me. 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.399 And it probably comes out for you and your relationships 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:35.000 with other women. For sure. It's really deep. Because a 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:37.760 lot of people don't have great relationships with their mothers. 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:42.000 That's probably where it first starts. It's like, if we 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:46.800 don't really know how to relate to our mother's, then 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:49.480 how do we learn to relate to ourselves and then 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:52.960 to others. If I don't have this connection with my mother, 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:56.520 I haven't been able to be seen through my mother's 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.280 eyes in a certain manner, you know, which that is 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.600 your first them in the mirror, you know what I mean? 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.040 And so then and trying to learn how to connect 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:07.800 to other women, and it's hard, hard, and I don't 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.360 know why those relationships are so difficult. Some of it 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:14.159 is like, you know, black women, we buy into that 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:17.840 strong black woman facade to a degree that's a detriment 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:19.879 to us to where we think we can weather and 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.280 withstand anything. And she's from a generation of women, like 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:24.400 a lot of black women who that's what they did. 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:27.080 They just sucked it up and kept moving right, And 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:31.480 it's really painful and hard, and we had to be 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:36.000 the people who were unfortunately absorbing their trauma right. And 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.520 because we had to absorb it, then we just continue 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.320 to pass it down. And once I realized, like all 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:43.000 the things I mean my mother happened when she was 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:50.520 eighteen years old, right, so you know I was seen right, 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:52.920 so I had to be there. She went through all 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:57.159 these stages of womanhood and you have to right so 0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.399 hard mode was I'm not here to be your friend, 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:02.040 like we're not here to have this certain kind of relationship. 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:04.520 I'm here to protect you, to save you from yourself 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:06.120 and to make sure you don't do any of it up. 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:10.880 Did so because you know, there wasn't really an opening 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:12.919 for me to look at my mother as and this 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.280 is the person I tell everything and this is to 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:16.960 us to have I think the kind of the kind 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.800 of relationship that you guys have now, which is a 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:22.320 tremendous is that you have that open communication, but no 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:26.000 open communication right. It was like, got this, this is 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:28.720 what I gotta be right. I tried to do therapy 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:33.000 with my mom. It was crazy because she felt too 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:36.240 vulnerable and as for her, Black women think vulnerability is 0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:38.720 weak and she was so weak and so seen and 0:21:38.760 --> 0:21:42.040 she hated it. She did. She didn't want to see it. 0:21:42.119 --> 0:21:43.679 She was like, I don't remember that happening. You know 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:45.920 how we bring up stuff, you like, but what about when? 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:48.200 And you know that didn't happen. You're like, but yeah, 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:51.720 if we're not saying that right now, it's cool. Like 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:53.520 I'm going through things that really hurt me when I 0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:55.040 was a kid, and I want to talk about it. 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:57.760 And for her, it's an indictment on how she raised me. 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:00.439 She was like, you were alive, right, you you you're 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:02.960 doing good? Right. I'm like, Mom, no, I just want 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:07.200 to talk about what happened. Yeah, And it's even with data. 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:10.120 Was just the opposite because I wanted her to come 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:15.520 into therapy with me and she refused. You refused only 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:18.800 because I felt like, oh no, you're not about to 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.119 take me into that abyss of pain and drop me off. 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:23.480 And I was like, oh no, no, we don't need 0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:27.240 to do that. I will figure out my own way 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:29.760