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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme.

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Speaker 1: My name is Quest Love.

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Speaker 2: We're here today with Layah Sugar, Steve Unpaid, Bill.

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Speaker 1: And Von Tigelow. Hello.

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Speaker 2: I will say that our guest today is world renowned.

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Speaker 2: He's a world renowned reducer. Those are his words, not

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Speaker 2: my words. World renowned reducer. From establishing one of the

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Speaker 2: greatest hip hop labels in history, Deft cham Uh, to

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Speaker 2: working with all the greats from Read Now, Chili Pepper,

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Speaker 2: Tom Petty, there's Slayer, there's the Cult, There's Kanye West,

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Speaker 2: There's Dixie Chicks, There's Mick Jagger, there's Neil Diamond.

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Speaker 1: There's the Roots.

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Speaker 2: I'm putting it out there anyway. Ladies, please welcome the

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Speaker 2: Guru of music to Quest Love Supreme, to know Rick Rubin.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for doing our show today. Finally, where are you?

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Speaker 2: Where are you currently right now?

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Speaker 1: Rick?

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Speaker 3: I am right now in Kawhi on lockdown. That's a

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Speaker 3: good place to be on lockdown? Do you consider is

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Speaker 3: that home for you?

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Speaker 2: Or is it just like Okay, if I have to

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Speaker 2: be on lockdown, I'd rather be in this particular environment.

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Speaker 3: We mainly live in Malibu and spend some time here,

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Speaker 3: usually in the winter, and this year the winter extended

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Speaker 3: because of the lockdown, so it seemed like a better

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Speaker 3: place to be on lockdown.

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Speaker 2: Ah okay, are you able to operate under your your

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Speaker 2: sort of your creative guys at least uh in Kawai?

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Speaker 1: Or are all these toys in LA?

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Speaker 3: Toys are in La, But we have a setup here

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Speaker 3: that's working working well.

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Speaker 2: You have you have an extensive history, So I was

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Speaker 2: debating with myself whether or not to do the normal

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Speaker 2: chron logical thing or should we just go kamakazi because

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Speaker 2: there's so many stories I want to learn about your production.

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Speaker 2: But I do want to know about your introduction to music.

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Speaker 2: First of all, where.

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Speaker 1: Were you born?

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Speaker 3: Long Beach, Long Island?

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Speaker 2: Long Beach, Long Island? Is that where you're born on? Paybill?

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Speaker 1: No, I was just born on Long Island. Shout out

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Speaker 1: to Long Island. Oh okay, all right, Birds of a Feather,

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Speaker 1: that's cool. What was your the very first record that

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Speaker 1: you purchased?

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Speaker 3: I remember buying. I don't remember what was the first one,

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Speaker 3: but I remember the experience of buying seven inches. I

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Speaker 3: can remember shopping for forty fives in Times Square store

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Speaker 3: in Oceanside and Snoopy Versus the Red Baron may have

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Speaker 3: been one of them, but I don't I don't remember

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Speaker 3: exactly what the record was.

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Speaker 2: What was the moment that you realized that, okay, I'd

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Speaker 2: like a space in the music world, or that's what

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Speaker 2: I want to do.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that I ever had that feeling. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I knew that I loved it, and I knew that

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Speaker 3: it would be a huge part of my life, but

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Speaker 3: I never thought it would be my job. Really, Okay, well,

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Speaker 3: I didn't think that was a I didn't think that

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Speaker 3: was a realistic possibility. I was going to have a

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Speaker 3: real job and that would support my music habit. What

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Speaker 3: were you planning on becoming. I was on track. My

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Speaker 3: parents had me on a track to be a lawyer.

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Speaker 3: That would have been there. Their wish would have either

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Speaker 3: been a doctor or a lawyer, and I was always

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Speaker 3: afraid of afraid of blood. I don't know. And then

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Speaker 3: I thought, oh, well, there are lawyers involved in the

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Speaker 3: music industry, so maybe I could be involved in that

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Speaker 3: way because I'd have to have a job. But my

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Speaker 3: real love is music. But I didn't know anyone who

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Speaker 3: did music as a job. I didn't think that was

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Speaker 3: a real thing.

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Speaker 1: What were your parents?

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Speaker 3: My dad was a businessman, store owner, my mom was

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Speaker 3: a housewife.

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Speaker 1: Is Rick Rubin your birth name?

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Speaker 3: Frederick J. Rubin is the name I was born with,

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Speaker 3: but I was called Rick from the time I was

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Speaker 3: a kid. No one ever called me anything else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you would have been in the Ruben attorney at law. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's why. That's that's a lawyer's dare. Okay, I get it.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: There's there's a story that I heard about once performing

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Speaker 2: at CBGB's and it was less than desirable, and I

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Speaker 2: believe the end result was your father coming down from

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Speaker 2: Long Island, but he was dressed as a cop. Did

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Speaker 2: I make up that story in my mind or something?

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Speaker 2: But I don't remember ever telling that story. But the

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Speaker 2: story is around and it may be rooted in something

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Speaker 2: that actually happened. I have a vague memory of it,

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Speaker 2: but I don't remember. I can't I can't remember telling

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Speaker 2: the story, but I think it might have happened. I

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Speaker 2: think I think the story that I heard was that

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Speaker 2: you were in a band called the Pricks. I believe,

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Speaker 2: and either it's kind of like you know a modern

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Speaker 2: showed time at the Apollo story where the opening actor

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Speaker 2: or another act brings all their fans down.

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Speaker 1: They were heckling you guys.

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Speaker 2: You guys only did like two songs, and then to

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Speaker 2: give revenge on the other band, your dad came down

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Speaker 2: dressed as a cop trying to shut the show down

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Speaker 2: or something like that.

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Speaker 3: Nothing like that happened. That was that's the story.

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Speaker 2: If that was an urban legend or for real.

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Speaker 3: That's an urban legend. But in the sort of theatrical

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Speaker 3: punk rock pandemonium of making a show more exciting, it

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Speaker 3: is possible that my dad dressed as a cop to

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Speaker 3: stop the show, our show, not to affect anyone else

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Speaker 3: because it would have. It just created a something. I

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Speaker 3: can remember the time we did a show where we

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Speaker 3: worked it out for the sprinkler, the fire sprinklers to

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Speaker 3: go off during the show and just create a general

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Speaker 3: sense of pandemonium in the room.

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Speaker 4: And what were you were you a what instrument did

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Speaker 4: you play in the band?

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Speaker 1: Guitar? Are you guitarists? Okay, got I did. I was not.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't say I was a guitarist, but I played

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Speaker 3: the guitar. You played the guitar.

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Speaker 2: Being being as though we rarely get guests on the

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Speaker 2: show that were really really of age, and I mean

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Speaker 2: like in their in their early twenties, at least in

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Speaker 2: New York City. Much as much is made about the

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Speaker 2: legend of of what nightlife culture was in New York

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Speaker 2: City because you had like one foot plan in CBGB's

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Speaker 2: I don't know about your history of Dancittaria or those

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Speaker 2: hip hop clubs at the time, but he just briefly

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Speaker 2: described what the environment was like in the first half

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Speaker 2: of the eighties as far as club life is concerned, Like,

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Speaker 2: do you see it with fond memories?

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Speaker 5: Now?

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Speaker 1: Was it the best time ever?

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Speaker 2: Are you one of those people that are like ah

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Speaker 2: Man New York in the early eighties, there's nothing like

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Speaker 2: it ever, like it these romanticized feelings about it.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it was an incredible time and we would go

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Speaker 3: out every night and uh, there was very little hip

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Speaker 3: hop at that time. You couldn't really see hip hop.

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Speaker 3: You could only see hip hop one night a week.

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Speaker 3: But we went out every night and you would see

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Speaker 3: there was a thriving dance music scene that would have

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Speaker 3: had like groups like Liquid Liquid and ESG and conk

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Speaker 3: Oh Wow. You got to see them in person, all everybody.

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Speaker 3: I saw everyone.

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Speaker 1: What were they like?

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Speaker 3: Incredible?

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Speaker 1: Like ESG, what were they like?

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Speaker 3: It was just all around the base. It was sort

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Speaker 3: of like a if you think about it looking back,

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Speaker 3: it would be you'd say it was a pretty boring show.

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Speaker 3: But the group was incredible. But it wasn't like a show.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't a show like putting on a show. It

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Speaker 3: was like people in a band standing on stage and

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Speaker 3: playing their songs. So it wasn't theatrical in any way. ESG.

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Speaker 3: As I recall, I think I saw them play at

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Speaker 3: Danceteria if I remember correctly, wow wow. But we would

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Speaker 3: go like if a band was playing at Irving Plaza,

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Speaker 3: we'd go to Irving Plaza. If a band playing at

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Speaker 3: the Mud Club, we'd go to the Mud Club. Maxis

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Speaker 3: Kansas City. I caught the tail end of Maxis Kansas City.

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Speaker 3: I saw James White and the Blacks play there. I

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Speaker 3: saw Devo play there. I saw Wayne County maybe Jane County.

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Speaker 3: At that time. I saw so many great shows. I

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Speaker 3: saw The Bad Brains play at CBGB's, I saw the

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Speaker 3: Bad Blaine's Brains play at Irving Plaza. I saw a

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Speaker 3: minor threat play at Irving Plaza. I saw the Cramps,

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Speaker 3: which was my very first technically punk rock show at

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Speaker 3: Irving Plaza, and then there'd be a gig at the Garden.

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Speaker 3: I remember seeing David Bowie at Madison Square Garden in

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Speaker 3: the same night seeing the Bad Brains after at CBGB's.

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Speaker 3: That would be a typical. It was an incredible time

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Speaker 3: to be a fan of music, and there was both

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Speaker 3: this live performance scene of music, and then there was

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Speaker 3: also this incredible dance music scene with places like Dance

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Speaker 3: Atyria then Area the garage was still going on, so

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Speaker 3: really you could you could get very different experiences, even

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Speaker 3: on the same night, going from club to club. And

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Speaker 3: then when hip hop started bubbling, the only place you

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Speaker 3: could really see it downtown was at Nagrill, which was

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Speaker 3: a reggae club on Avenue A. I believe I remember correctly.

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Speaker 3: I think it was either.

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Speaker 2: Sadly anyway first making restaurant down.

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Speaker 3: A flight of stairs.

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Speaker 2: Is it still there, Yeah, it's still there, but it's.

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Speaker 1: Shadow of what it shadow of what it used to be.

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Speaker 3: But that's the place that I used to go to

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Speaker 3: see Jazzy j and uh Africa, Islam and Uh, Busy

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Speaker 3: Bee and Treacherous three and everybody played there and it

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Speaker 3: was one night a week Tuesday, KLB Productions, Cool Lady Blue,

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Speaker 3: And then when it got big, after it got big,

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Speaker 3: then they moved it to the Roxy and that was

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Speaker 3: one night a week with the Rocks. I went to

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Speaker 3: the Roxy the first night ever that it was hip hop,

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Speaker 3: and it was this giant roller rink with maybe I

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Speaker 3: don't know, there were maybe fifty of us there for

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Speaker 3: the first night, and then it ended up just watching

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Speaker 3: it grow every week and get bigger and bigger and

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Speaker 3: bigger until it became what it became.

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Speaker 2: You know, So I know about your dorm being def

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Speaker 2: Jam's headquarters, But what was your major at NYU when

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Speaker 2: you were attending.

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Speaker 3: I started as a philosophy major, and after two years

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Speaker 3: I switched to film and television because, as I said,

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Speaker 3: I was planning on going to law school. You don't

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Speaker 3: need a particular the degree you have undergraduate degree doesn't

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Speaker 3: matter to get into law school. And most of my

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Speaker 3: friends that I liked hanging out with were in film

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Speaker 3: school and that just seemed more fun than the liberal

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Speaker 3: arts side that I was that I started on. So

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Speaker 3: I just switched over, since it didn't matter.

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Speaker 2: What year was def Jam as a punk label started first, Wait.

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Speaker 3: Year eighty three, eighty four, something like that.

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Speaker 1: What were the who were the artist or the label?

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Speaker 3: At the time, the only records that I made of

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Speaker 3: my own band, all there was was hose hosc and

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Speaker 3: there was a twelve inch and a seven inch, a

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Speaker 3: twelve inch EP and a seven inch. That's all there was.

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Speaker 3: And then I made my first hip hop record, which

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Speaker 3: was It's Yours, which and I'll tell you the story

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Speaker 3: of how that came about because it's interesting. If you

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Speaker 3: want again, if you want to hear it, I'll tell you.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, we're rabbit Hole Central, We're waiting time.

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Speaker 3: My favorite group at the time were The Treacherous Three.

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Speaker 3: And I didn't know anything at all about the record business.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know that there were I didn't know what

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Speaker 3: a producer did. I didn't know that there were record companies.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know that people had contracts. I literally knew

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Speaker 3: nothing other than I love music more than anything. I

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Speaker 3: read everything I could read about music. I read even Billboard,

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Speaker 3: which was a weird thing for a kid to read

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Speaker 3: when I was even in you know, sixth grade, seventh grade,

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Speaker 3: I would read Billboard just because there might be a

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Speaker 3: little story about an artist I liked, and it never

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Speaker 3: made like I was never really interested in what it said.

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Speaker 3: But I just wanted to learn anything there was to

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Speaker 3: learn about anyone that I liked in music, So if

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Speaker 3: I saw their name in an article, I had to

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Speaker 3: read it. I reached out to After the show at Nagrill,

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Speaker 3: I reached out to Kumo D. Kumo Du is my

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Speaker 3: favorite MC, and I gave him my number and I said,

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Speaker 3: let's get together and chat.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: Kumo D was going to school on Long Island, so

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Speaker 3: they were all like college age at this time. And

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Speaker 3: then Kumo D came to visit me at the dorm.

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Speaker 3: That was my first attempt at being involved in this

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Speaker 3: thing that I loved, and I said they had been

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Speaker 3: making records on Enjoy Records, which I loved, and then

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Speaker 3: they made their first thing, the first thing that came out,

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Speaker 3: if I remember correctly, I'm not sure the timing of this,

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Speaker 3: but I heard a treacherous three song that I thought

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Speaker 3: wasn't as good as all the ones that I liked.

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Speaker 2: Was it Yes we Can Can on sugar Hill might

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Speaker 2: have been. I didn't like that yeah, yeah, so I

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Speaker 2: might have made so high.

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Speaker 3: So as a fan, I said, let's get together. I

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Speaker 3: just want to talk to you about this music. You know,

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Speaker 3: I'm a fan. I want to talk to you. And

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Speaker 3: then I said, and then again I was I had

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Speaker 3: great confidence in my taste just because I really you know,

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Speaker 3: I truly felt it with all of my heart. And

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Speaker 3: this was in a time when not a lot of

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Speaker 3: people were listening to this music. It was a tiny

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Speaker 3: underground scene at the time. You have to keep in

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Speaker 3: mind this is there were the first round of def

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Speaker 3: jam records. We might have pressed up, you know, three

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Speaker 3: thousand copies. You know, that might be the starting run

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Speaker 3: of a record. So that's how big the world of

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Speaker 3: hip hop was at that time.

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Speaker 2: By this point, Uh is this pre or post? It's

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Speaker 2: yours like this that's.

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Speaker 3: Leading up, this is leading up to it. There's no

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Speaker 3: I've done nothing.

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Speaker 2: Oh so he just he just befriended you on trust,

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Speaker 2: not knowing anything about your.

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Speaker 3: No, he didn't even befriend me on trust. He's just

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Speaker 3: like somebody cares in a time when nobody cares. Why

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Speaker 3: nobody cares? You understand, it is a tiny little world

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Speaker 3: that nobody was interested in. I was interested. I could

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Speaker 3: speak about it with passion because I had that passion.

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Speaker 3: So there weren't that many heads at that moment in time.

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Speaker 3: So I get together with Kulmo D and I say, okay,

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Speaker 3: the records you made on Enjoy are great. Now there's

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Speaker 3: this new thing. It's not as good as the rest.

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Speaker 3: Let's figure out together. I'm your fan. I don't want

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Speaker 3: it to go that way. I don't want it to

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Speaker 3: get worse. Let's figure out how to make it get better. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and let's figure out. I swear it's true. Let's figure

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Speaker 3: out how to do this great. And he said, I

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Speaker 3: would love to do this, but I can't do this.

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Speaker 3: We're signed to sugar Hill. I didn't Again, I had

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Speaker 3: no idea. I didn't know anything. I didn't know what

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Speaker 3: a producer was. I didn't know what that there were contracts,

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Speaker 3: but he said, we're signed a sugar Hill, but you

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Speaker 3: should talk to Special K. He's in the group, and

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Speaker 3: he writes he might have an idea. So he introduced

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Speaker 3: me to Special K. Got together Special K, and Special

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Speaker 3: K said, okay, I like the idea. And I was

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Speaker 3: already programming beats, so I played him some beats. On

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Speaker 3: my eight oh eight, Special K said, Okay, I wrote,

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Speaker 3: I just wrote this record called It's yours. I can't

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Speaker 3: do it because I'm signed to sugar Hill, but Tilura

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Speaker 3: can do it. He's where we're related. And that's the

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Speaker 3: way it really happened, me wanting to work with Treacher's three,

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Speaker 3: them saying me not knowing, me not knowing anything about business,

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Speaker 3: and them basically saying, this is the guy who can

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Speaker 3: do the song, and Special K wrote the lyrics.

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Speaker 1: It was.

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Speaker 3: It was essentially like a Special K solo record lyrically.

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Speaker 4: What and even lyrically that was really ahead of his

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Speaker 4: time even back then as.

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Speaker 3: It was incredible.

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Speaker 1: Story just what ever?

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Speaker 2: Else?

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Speaker 1: I don't know it's yours?

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Speaker 2: Wait, Rick, are you even familiar about the Tela Rock

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Speaker 2: situation right now?

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Speaker 3: I've heard a little bit recently.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on. It's in Okay.

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Speaker 2: I won't do any I won't do any justice to

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Speaker 2: the story. I'll just say that if you google Tela Rock.

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Speaker 2: GQ magazine. GQ magazine, damn near gave Tela Rock a

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Speaker 2: seven page feature story, long story short. I meet this woman,

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Speaker 2: this like this high society hoity toity, upscale woman from

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Speaker 2: like the West Side, and she comes to me and says, hey,

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Speaker 2: I'm doing Think of like the woman the woman in

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Speaker 2: Wild Style, like totally a fish out of water, right,

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Speaker 2: older white woman comes to me. He says, hey, I'm

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Speaker 2: doing a biopic or rapper Tila Rock, And already I'm turned.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, he's trying to scam you, Like, okay,

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Speaker 2: whatever biopic because I'm like, what is it about Tela

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Speaker 2: Rock that deserves a biopic?

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Speaker 1: Three years later, there's a story in.

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Speaker 2: GQ magazine that I didn't know, which basically he went

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Speaker 2: into a coma and because he had no ID or

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Speaker 2: anything on him. Think of like Michael Jackson's character on

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Speaker 2: The Simpsons. He winds up in this old folks home

337
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Speaker 2: in the Bronx. They don't know who he is, or

338
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Speaker 2: he doesn't know who he is, knows nothing. I think

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Speaker 2: it about in months or so, his family finally locates him,

340
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Speaker 2: but he's comfortable with his life at this old folks

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Speaker 2: home and now they have to explain to him who

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Speaker 2: he was.

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Speaker 1: You were once you were the first.

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Speaker 6: Rapper's brutal attack a mirror.

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Speaker 7: But the headline is the man who forgot he was

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Speaker 7: a rap legend, right, which is pretty great.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how he got into that coma, but

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Speaker 2: I do know that he was in a coma and

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Speaker 2: he didn't know who or what he was, and he

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Speaker 2: slowly had to be taught everything about himself. But now

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Speaker 2: he just has this new life and as the young guy,

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Speaker 2: as the young stud in a nursing home.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, and he likes his life there.

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Speaker 6: But it's they say that other residents are mostly elderly

355
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Speaker 6: Jewish and Yiddish speakers, so that must be.

356
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Speaker 2: Yeah, like the word about like who's this black guy?

357
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Speaker 2: And are are missing? They're like, well, he was once

358
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Speaker 2: a rapper on Russell Simmons label like that sort it's

359
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 2: the crazy story you ever heard, but it's yeah. I

360
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Speaker 2: was floored once I seen it. Now I wish I

361
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Speaker 2: wouldn't have dismissed that woman, like that movie has to

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Speaker 2: be made.

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Speaker 1: Nah, that's a movie.

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Speaker 3: Sounds great.

365
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's him now. Yeah, it's a crazy movie.

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Speaker 3: And it looks exactly the same. By the way, it's

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Speaker 3: exactly what you looked like. Then.

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Speaker 1: How old were you when you did that record?

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Speaker 3: Twenty shit, maybe maybe nineteen, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and that was just you on the on the

371
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Speaker 4: eight away and then what did y'all track it on?

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Speaker 3: If you remember, we tracked it this There was a

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Speaker 3: studio that advertised in the Village Voice called power Play

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Speaker 3: in Long Island City, which was the cheapest studio you

375
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Speaker 3: could go into, and we recorded it. I recorded my

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Speaker 3: punk rock band there before, and then we recorded that

377
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Speaker 3: it's yours there and we recorded it, you know, in

378
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Speaker 3: a couple of hours, pretty pretty quick. Another piece, the

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Speaker 3: reason Jazzy J. The reason it is Telarak and Jazzy

380
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Speaker 3: J was again as a fan of hip hop, as

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Speaker 3: someone going to the club. The whole idea always of

382
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Speaker 3: the records that I made were that the energy in

383
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Speaker 3: the club was a very specific thing and the records

384
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Speaker 3: that were coming out didn't sound like what the club

385
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Speaker 3: sounded like, and a fan now had had the record

386
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Speaker 3: sounded the same. I don't know that I would have

387
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Speaker 3: ever made a hip hop record at all, because it

388
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Speaker 3: was more just I want to hear this. I want

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Speaker 3: to hear what I'm hearing at the club, but nobody's

390
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Speaker 3: making that record, so I made it to be able

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Speaker 3: to hear it. But that's all it was. It wasn't

392
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Speaker 3: there was no Uh. I had no expectation that anybody

393
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Speaker 3: else would like it or that it would have any success.

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Speaker 3: It was never about you know, you could never assume

395
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Speaker 3: that in this little world that it was that we

396
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Speaker 3: were coming from. It's like anyone who was making music

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Speaker 3: at that time clearly did it out of the love

398
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Speaker 3: of it, because it was no upside.

399
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Speaker 1: Yeah, there was no industry read that was Bill.

400
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Speaker 7: New And what was the fundamental difference between the club

401
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 7: and the and the record. What were you trying to capture?

402
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,680
Speaker 7: Was it just the I'll you tell you no?

403
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Speaker 1: Okay?

404
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 2: Because even on the a cappella version of that record.

405
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Speaker 2: In my mind, there's a million people in the room,

406
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Speaker 2: do it like because you're the king of the who

407
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 2: ho like that?

408
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,200
Speaker 1: That that sort of thing, like the people in the background.

409
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Speaker 2: Yes, how many people were in the room when that

410
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 2: those party noise were made?

411
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Speaker 3: Four or five? Five or six of us? Two times?

412
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe three? Was that Rock one of those people? Absolutely?

413
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Speaker 1: Okay?

414
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 3: Okay? At yeah, me Ad Rock, probably Special k Jazzy

415
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 3: j who everybody who was in the hit, maybe even

416
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Speaker 3: the engineer of the session, like any people we had

417
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Speaker 3: on hand to get the the that party vibe. So Okay,

418
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 3: so let me explain how I heard what I heard

419
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:07,400
Speaker 3: different about the club versus the records, and a lot

420
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Speaker 3: of this has to do with me not knowing anything

421
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 3: the way that rap records had been made up until

422
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,719
Speaker 3: that point. Those records were made by people who had

423
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 3: made other records. So at the time, if you were

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Speaker 3: going to make a club record, it would be like heartbeat,

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Speaker 3: it would be a band. It would be a band

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Speaker 3: record with a woman singing R and B. That would

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00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 3: be the club record. And then when the people who

428
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 3: didn't understand hip hop but understood making club records saw

429
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,439
Speaker 3: this new thing, rap music, they thought, Okay, we'll do

430
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 3: the band doing the R and B song, and we'll

431
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 3: have the guy rap on it instead of having the

432
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Speaker 3: girl sing on it. And that's what hip hop records

433
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 3: sounded like. But that's not what the club sounded like.

434
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Speaker 3: The club sounded like DJ culture, drum machines, maybe not

435
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 3: so many drum machines, but some at that point more

436
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 3: DJ culture. It was really about the DJ cutting it up.

437
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 3: So if you went to see if you went to

438
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Speaker 3: see The Treacher three live, it wasn't a band playing

439
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 3: their song like it was on even the enjoy records.

440
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 3: It was the DJ cutting up the records with the

441
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 3: MC's and that's what that's how I understood hip hop

442
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 3: was this homemade music with rapping. So that's and that's

443
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 3: why Jazzy why it was important for me, Like I

444
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 3: would never want to sign. I would never think of

445
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 3: doing a Tela rock record without having a DJ associated

446
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 3: with it, because it's like, what made it hip hop

447
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,199
Speaker 3: was the two of them. It was the band, you know,

448
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 3: together they were the Beatles, right, but by himself it

449
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 3: was just to say it was another singer, you know,

450
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 3: it was Frank Sinatra. It's it's different. So I saw

451
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 3: it as a group and the music was an important

452
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 3: part of for me. The DJ culture was as important

453
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 3: as the MC always it was always both. So that's

454
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 3: and then I and Jesse. J was my favorite DJ,

455
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 3: and I asked him if you would be on the

456
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 3: record and join the group with Special K. That's how

457
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 3: that's how it happened.

458
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 2: Wow, was it hard to get because you know the

459
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 2: stories that I've heard from Russell's reaction to the record

460
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 2: was that it was hard to believe that this white

461
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 2: boy made such a definitive black album. So how how

462
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 2: how hard was it to convince people that you're the

463
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 2: guy that made it's yours?

464
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: Like was it heart cell or.

465
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 3: The whole thing was so strange, like it was the

466
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 3: record was already a weird record. Yes, Russell always referred

467
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 3: to it as more black than anything else. But to me,

468
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 3: it was just more representative of the club, you know,

469
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 3: it was more like it was like a documentary of

470
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 3: what I experienced going to the club.

471
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 2: All Right, So since we're talking about your eight o

472
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 2: eight period, and I guess our listeners, it should be

473
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 2: noted that, really, I mean, yes, I know that there's

474
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 2: a tie between like you and Arthur Baker. That Tela

475
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 2: Rock single was like sort of a cross between def

476
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 2: Jam and it wasn't start whatever Party Time?

477
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: Party Time?

478
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 2: Wasn't that one of the author breakers Offspring Levels as well?

479
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,679
Speaker 3: At the way I can tell you how that happened

480
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 3: as well, which was I was going to put it

481
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 3: out independently myself, the way I put out my punk

482
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 3: Rock Records with nine to nine Records, which is a

483
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 3: record store or really cool independent record store on Google Street, Yeah, DSG,

484
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 3: and they put out Bush Tetras and Liquid Liquid. They

485
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 3: put out the record that the message was based on actually.

486
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have those records. Yeah.

487
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 3: So the guy who ran that record store was sort

488
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 3: of my mentor in that he walked me through the process.

489
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 3: He's like, Okay, here's a list of studios you could

490
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 3: go to. Here's a place you could have the vinyl press,

491
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 3: here's the place you could have the labels made. The

492
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 3: labels were made in Brooklyn, the vinyl was pressed in

493
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 3: I think Long Island City, the covers were printed in Canada,

494
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 3: and he kind of walked me through, here's people who

495
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 3: could do mastering for you, and he just walked me

496
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 3: through how to do it because I didn't know anything.

497
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 3: As I said, So I did that first for my

498
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 3: punk rock records and I was about to do that

499
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 3: with its yours when Jazzy called me because they were

500
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 3: making some movie that Arthur Baker was involved in. I

501
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 3: don't know what it was. I can't remember what it was,

502
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 3: Street Street, and he said, Hey, just met this guy,

503
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 3: Arthur Baker. He wants to hear our record. He's got

504
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 3: a label, maybe he can help us. And then I

505
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 3: went up and I met Arthur Baker at Shakedown Studio,

506
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 3: which is where we ended up doing a lot of

507
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 3: work in the future as well mixing. I think we

508
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 3: mixed half of License to Ill there and MCA from

509
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 3: the BC Boys work there. He worked as a as

510
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 3: like a tape op assistant there, assistant engineer. So I

511
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,199
Speaker 3: went up. I met Arthur for the first time and

512
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 3: he was already, you know, like a successful person in

513
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 3: the music business. And again I'm still this kid in

514
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 3: school playing the song. He's like, this is great. His

515
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 3: main label was called street Wise street Wise and he said,

516
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 3: and it really yeah, it doesn't really fit street Wise,

517
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 3: but we could put it on Party Time, which is

518
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 3: like a sub label. Said fine, and he bought the

519
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 3: record to out oubt and I said, the only thing

520
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 3: is it has to have the deaf Jam logo on it.

521
00:27:58,760 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 3: Even though it came over.

522
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: I drew that looking, you drew that looking.

523
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 3: I drew the Yeah, I did. My aunt Carol worked

524
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 3: at Este Lauder in the creative creative services department, and

525
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 3: I would hang out there a lot, and I used

526
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 3: press type and I made it on a day that

527
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 3: either they were closed or just when nobody was around

528
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 3: at one of the designers tables, just experimenting with different things.

529
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 3: And the reason the reason it has the big DJ

530
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 3: was to make that point of like, this is DJ culture.

531
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 3: So I thought having the big DJ in the logo

532
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 3: quietly told the story of what the label was about.

533
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 6: Was that a one thing Willie drawing or was that like, okay,

534
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 6: on the fifth one, I liked this one.

535
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 3: I tried a lot of things. I mean I tried

536
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 3: a lot of things, but it happened pretty quick. It

537
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 3: came in, you know, came in a day. I drew

538
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 3: it a bunch of like uppercase lowercase, what looks good

539
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 3: and moving it around and then found I.

540
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: Still have your sketches of it? Or are they long?

541
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: A think?

542
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 3: So? I probably long got it. I don't. It's possible

543
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 3: that they exist because I had a lot of stuff

544
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 3: at my parents' house and then some of that stuff

545
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 3: is in a in storage somewhere, but I've never looked

546
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 3: at it.

547
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 5: I was going to ask, what does it feel?

548
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 6: Because I've heard a Mirror and Tarik say that sometimes

549
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 6: they went on deaf Jam just because they wanted to

550
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 6: be able to have that logo affiliated with their name.

551
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 5: That's gotta feel crazy just for my drawing.

552
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 2: That's yeah, Like you know, I in class, I draw

553
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: that logo on imaginary roots albums that didn't exist yet,

554
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: like hanging that shit on my wall.

555
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 3: I probably did exactly the same thing, and then it

556
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 3: ended up becoming you know, they weren't roots albums, but

557
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 3: they were whatever it was. It was just like playing

558
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 3: with how do we say that, what's the name going

559
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 3: to be? What's it going to look like?

560
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: How does it work?

561
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 2: In eighty three eighty four? How expensive are are eight

562
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: to weight drum machines? I don't know, something that you

563
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 2: casually come across.

564
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 3: It's something that I luckily came across because there was

565
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 3: a guy in my dorm room who was in an

566
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 3: alternative rock band called the Speedies, and he had that

567
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 3: machine and he lent he lent me the eight a

568
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 3: weight drum machine. That's how I came across it.

569
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 2: So were you able to program and save beats or

570
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 2: is it just like you turn on you show what

571
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 2: you could do.

572
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: And print it.

573
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 3: You could make twenty or so pre program beats.

574
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 2: So how long is the conversation with Russell Simmons before

575
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 2: you realize that you're going to go into partnership with

576
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: him and start the label officially?

577
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 3: I met Russell at a party for a Graffiti Rock,

578
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 3: that that TV Wow where Treacher's Three and run. Yeah,

579
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 3: and I went there, you know, hoping that Treacher's Three

580
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 3: would be there because they were, you know, my favorite group.

581
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: And this is like a party.

582
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 3: This was an after party. And someone introduced me to

583
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 3: Russell and I told him I made It's yours and

584
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 3: he couldn't believe it. It's just like, no way, It's like,

585
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 3: you're white, you didn't make that record.

586
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: And again, but you have.

587
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 3: To understand, there were there really were.

588
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 6: Well.

589
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 3: Tom Silverman was involved in hip hop. He was the

590
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 3: only other white person I would say that I knew

591
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 3: who had any relationship to hip hop at that time.

592
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he wasn't making beats. He was.

593
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 3: He was really helpful. He was really helpful to us,

594
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: like he was someone another Like I had these great mentors.

595
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 3: I had the guy at nine nine Records, ed Ed Baleman,

596
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 3: his name was and and I had to Tommy and

597
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 3: I would call Tom's just like, hey, what do I do?

598
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 3: Monica Lynch who worked with Tommy, like it's like what

599
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 3: do we do? How do What's the next step? And

600
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 3: I can remember his story. I don't think I've ever

601
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 3: told anyone. It's interesting why I was excited about having

602
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 3: Russell as apart. There I was walking on in front

603
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 3: of the dorm, across the street from the dorm, turning

604
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 3: the corner I ran into and I don't even know.

605
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 3: This is strange because I don't know how I knew

606
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 3: who he was. But there was a writer for the

607
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 3: Village Voice named Aaron Fuchs.

608
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: He was a writer.

609
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 3: He was he was a writer. But listen, let me

610
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 3: let me tell you. Let me tell you the story.

611
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 3: So again, it's amazing the fact that I even I

612
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 3: don't know how I knew who he was or how

613
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 3: it worked out that I that I. But I literally

614
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 3: went up to him on the street and said, hey,

615
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 3: I made this record, and what do I have to

616
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 3: do to get people to hear it? Like how do

617
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 3: I do this? And this was it's yours. I don't

618
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 3: even think I had there. I was just more of

619
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 3: a conversations like how does it work? How does this work?

620
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 3: So now I'm at the stage where because I was

621
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 3: always comfortable asking questions, you know, I would if someone

622
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 3: had information that I needed I was. I felt comfortable

623
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 3: asking and sometimes they would help and sometimes they wouldn't.

624
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 3: So I thought he was someone who might be able

625
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 3: to help. And I just said, you know, what's the

626
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 3: next step. How do I get people to hear this thing?

627
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 3: And he said, you need promotion and you can't do it.

628
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 3: And he said the only person who knows how to

629
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 3: do promotion for hip hop records is Russell Simmons, and

630
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 3: Russell Simmons won't do anything for anyone except his brother Run.

631
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 3: He works with a lot of artists, but he said,

632
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,479
Speaker 3: unless you're Run, he won't promote your records. So it's like, Okay,

633
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 3: I'm thinking, maybe someday I'll meet this guy Rustling. At

634
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 3: least he'll tell me what he does, even if he

635
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 3: won't do it just in hopes of getting the word out.

636
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: I got to get to the bottom of this story.

637
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 2: Now, if he was a writer for the Village Voice,

638
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 2: and he too was, you know, a hopeful record mogul.

639
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: Yet you know the story in the Fable of Aaron

640
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: is that he would go hard and the paint ensuing

641
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 2: any product on def jam that contained any of the

642
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 2: samples that he owned.

643
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 3: I would say even beyond that is that if he

644
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 3: knew any song had the potential to be sampled, he'd

645
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 3: try to buy up the right so that he could

646
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 3: sue whoever sampled it.

647
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that too.

648
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 2: But I'm almost feeling like maybe he has a personal

649
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 2: beef with Russell that none of us are aware of,

650
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 2: because there are other samples that he could have went

651
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: after that he never did.

652
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: But if it was on deaf Jam, it's like like Goodfellas,

653
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 1: fuck you pay me.

654
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 2: They always wanted to know if that was if there

655
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 2: was like a burnt bridge, and it's sort of like, okay,

656
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 2: well I get you.

657
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 3: When he told me about Russell, he was not positive

658
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 3: about him. It was not a positive conversation, but it

659
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 3: was just this. It was a piece of information that

660
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 3: was helpful.

661
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 2: There's an article that or a block that Harry Allen

662
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 2: once wrote in in honor of your early production methods,

663
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 2: in which you know, it's noted that you have the

664
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 2: loudest eight h eight sounds, the loudest scratches, like your

665
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 2: scratches on going back to Cali, Like it's just louder

666
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 2: than everything. So even like what's your engineering process or

667
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 2: just your whole theory on pushing it to the limit.

668
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 3: There is none. I will say, I like, if you're

669
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 3: gonna put something in there, I want to be able

670
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 3: to hear it, like I want. The idea of having

671
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 3: scratching as this sort of background element that's going on

672
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 3: all the time is not so interesting to me. It's like,

673
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 3: if it's gonna be there, it should be only exactly

674
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 3: when it needs to be there, and it should be

675
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 3: crazy loud, because in some ways it's like it's like

676
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 3: lead guitar. You know, it's a punctuation moment. It's not

677
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 3: a background sound. And as a rule, I'm not so

678
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 3: into background sounds, you know. It's more about having the

679
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 3: least amount of stuff going on, creating space where each

680
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 3: thing that you hear, hopefully very few of them sound

681
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 3: as clear and have as much personality as possible. And

682
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 3: as soon as you start blanketing sounds, all of each

683
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 3: of those sounds gets diminished.

684
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 4: And I can hear that in your I can really

685
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 4: hear that in your rock production Predicative, particularly on Californication,

686
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 4: which is probably my favorite Rick Rubin produced album.

687
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: How cool but nah, I love.

688
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 4: That recormand like I when I preserved it, it was just

689
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 4: I was taken aback by just how the way you

690
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 4: track Anthony's vocals, like it sounded almost like to the

691
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 4: edge of distortion but not quite and it just had

692
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 4: that kind of grid on it and it was just

693
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 4: really in your face.

694
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 1: And I love that record. I just wanted to hear

695
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: on that one.

696
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 2: So you were about to tell the Rock the bell story,

697
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, and I'll tell you what.

698
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 3: I remember, But but I don't remember the Bob James

699
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,439
Speaker 3: record ever being in the conversation. It may have been,

700
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 3: it may have been something that Elle had been thinking

701
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 3: and wanting to do. Oh, okay, okay, but I don't

702
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 3: remember it. I don't remember talking about it. Yeah, I

703
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 3: was gonna say, it's even possible that when it was

704
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 3: time to record it, that he suggested it. And it

705
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 3: is possible that we were already working on the run DMC,

706
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 3: the Peter Piper song.

707
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 2: It is possible, all right, what was your one of

708
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 2: the one of the factors that you also used in

709
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 2: your early production was the sound of Go Go and

710
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 2: Rock the Bells. And then She's crafty and also you know,

711
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 2: I'll say that one of one of the things I've

712
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 2: done in the Quarantine Punishment is practically purchased every Go

713
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 2: Go album made available and nothing I hate. And I

714
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: know a lot of it has to do with either

715
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 2: the studios that they record in. Either it's too clean

716
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 2: or it's too amateurish. But Sardines, to me is probably

717
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,919
Speaker 2: the best. Yes, Sardines is probably the best produced Go

718
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 2: Go record, probably second to Pump Me Up. So, first

719
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 2: of all, Sardines is such a stripped down song. How

720
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 2: did you record Junkyard?

721
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 3: The drop the bombs incredible?

722
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 4: Okay, I'll say early early Trumpel, early trumble Funk.

723
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: Yes, they're they're, they're. Their mixing was immaculate. But what was.

724
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 2: The process in recording the Junkyard band and why didn't

725
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 2: you press one further with them?

726
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 3: Okay, let me I'm going to just talk for a

727
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 3: second about I agree with you. The only the only

728
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 3: go Go records I like are old Trouble Funk records

729
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 3: other than Sardines, which I think was good. And I

730
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 3: want to talk about that a little bit because what

731
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 3: you're describing is exactly the way I felt about hip hop.

732
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 3: Where you could buy in those days, the early days

733
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 3: of hip hop, I could buy a twelve inch or

734
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 3: two every week, that's all that would come out that

735
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 3: would be hip hop, And none of them did for me.

736
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 3: What the Troublefunk records did. As it relates to Go Go.

737
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 3: Do you know what I'm saying. It's like the the

738
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,439
Speaker 3: hip hop records were like the bad Go Go records say,

739
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 3: it's the same, It's the same in any genre. It's like,

740
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 3: it's not about the genre, it's the way the records

741
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 3: are made. And in some ways I felt like Go

742
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 3: Go was gonna be the next hip hop I usually

743
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 3: believe that was going to happen, but they didn't make

744
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 3: the right records. They sounded, they watered down what Go

745
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 3: Go was like. The records on Island. Island signed all

746
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 3: the bands, and those records are terrible.

747
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 6: Do you think that's because it's kind of designed for

748
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 6: it to be a live situation more than a record

749
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,720
Speaker 6: at the end of the day, like a studio album.

750
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 3: I just think that the wrong people were helping make

751
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 3: the music. The wrong people were involved on the recording side.

752
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: Yes, I don't like how half the Go Go records

753
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 2: are engineered. Not I mean, I love Rare Essence more

754
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 2: than any band on Earth, but it just frustrates me

755
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 2: that the energy and the engineering of when I hear

756
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,759
Speaker 2: them live or even I hear like some of their

757
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 2: live mixtapes that's not captured on a studio cut.

758
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 5: For me, That's what I'm saying.

759
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 2: And so why was Sardines and the Word just a

760
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 2: one off twelve inch? Was there ever a conversation about

761
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 2: recording Junkyard as a band or I mean, not as

762
00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 2: a band, as a full album.

763
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 3: I don't really remember, and I think not long after

764
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 3: I ended up leaving Deaf Jam, So it may have

765
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 3: been that it was just like towards the end of

766
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,720
Speaker 3: the time that I was doing stuff with Deaf Jam

767
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 3: and then just stopped. But I don't remember. I don't

768
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 3: remember there being First of all, nobody particularly cared about it,

769
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 3: like we liked it, but it's not like there was

770
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 3: any demand for the Junkyard band. As crazy as that sounds,

771
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 3: I loved them.

772
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 2: I was told to ask you about the making of

773
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 2: Crush Groove the song. What tell me the story the

774
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 2: making of Crushgroove the song?

775
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 3: What's I was thinking about? It's funny that this has

776
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 3: been I couldn't. I didn't remember what song that was there.

777
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 3: I had a memory that we did a song with

778
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 3: run DMC and other artists, and I remember the conversation

779
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 3: in the studio because it was heated and particularly on

780
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 3: my as it related to me, like I was very

781
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 3: unhappy with what was going on, and I thought it

782
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 3: for some reason, I thought it was a Christmas song,

783
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 3: but have come to realize it's actually that Crush Groove song.

784
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 3: And I could never find it anywhere because it's listed

785
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 3: as the Crush Groove All Stars Soars. So it's not

786
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 3: like if you're looking back at run DMC songs that

787
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 3: comes up. So I haven't heard it in a long time,

788
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 3: but I had this vague memory. It's like we did

789
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 3: this song, and I remember there was a little bit

790
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 3: of an argument in the studio, and what the argument

791
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 3: was was, if you listen to the track, should we

792
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 3: play it because it'll it'll or at least play some

793
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 3: of it. You want to play a little bit of

794
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 3: a the track? Who are who? Who are the other

795
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 3: artists on it? Do you remember.

796
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: Curtis Blow?

797
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 3: Okay, the movie people wanted a song for the movie.

798
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,760
Speaker 3: They got the Fat Boys, Sheila E and Curtis Blow

799
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 3: on this track that sounded like a track that would

800
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 3: fit on and maybe any one of the three of

801
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 3: their albums, maybe she'lla eat Less, but it sounded most

802
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 3: like a fat Boys records.

803
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: Like a fat Boy Curtis blow record.

804
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounded like a fat Boy Curtis blow record.

805
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 3: So when we got to the studio, okay, do you

806
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:15,360
Speaker 3: want to play it?

807
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: Many in love? Then in love?

808
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 4: Then I think I was five when this came out.

809
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:56,919
Speaker 1: I love this fucking song a long way.

810
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 3: Now we heal, okay, so what's what's When we got

811
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,959
Speaker 3: to the studio, the mission was, we're doing this song

812
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 3: for the movie. They provided us this song. The other

813
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 3: EMC's ready on it, and now I'm there as Run

814
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 3: DMC's producer, and they're supposed to get on this on

815
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 3: this track and right, and it sounded only like the

816
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 3: beginning of the song didn't sound like the run DMC

817
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 3: part right, And I said, there's no way Run DMC

818
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 3: could be on this. They cannot be on this. It's like,

819
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 3: this sounds like a Fat Boys record. This sounds like

820
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 3: a Curtis blow record. That's not a Run DMC record.

821
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 3: I love Run DMC. This is something else. And and

822
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 3: then I said, well, the only way we could have

823
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 3: Run DMC on this would be if we make our

824
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,479
Speaker 3: own track and drop it in in the middle where

825
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 3: it could sound like this is a run DMC song.

826
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 3: And that's it's how that ended. And I was the

827
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 3: only one who cared. Nobody else cared nobody, you know,

828
00:44:58,840 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 3: it would have just been.

829
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: Like Larry, Larry and Curtis weren't offended. I don't. I

830
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: don't even know.

831
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 3: I didn't even know who produced it. Yeah, I didn't

832
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 3: know that. I do remember Curtis was pissed off after saying,

833
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 3: how come I can't be over the part that runs on? Like?

834
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 3: How come he couldn't.

835
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 1: Write a breakdown? Yeah? The breakdown?

836
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,399
Speaker 7: Can you talk about? You know, there's there's producer as

837
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 7: as song clinician and arranger and and music person, and

838
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 7: there's something about producer as social psychologist. And I feel

839
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 7: like your your life and correct me if I'm wrong.

840
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 7: It's sort of this weird thing that rides between them

841
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 7: and the great producers that I know run this line

842
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 7: that I don't fully understand how to run, and I

843
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 7: feel like you've mastered it and and and in your

844
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 7: career have sort of defined what a producer is. And

845
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 7: so there are some producers that are that are beat makers,

846
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 7: there are some producers that are songwriters. You're able to

847
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 7: encompass all of them. And not only in one particular genre,

848
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 7: but in about four or five.

849
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 1: So like, I don't know.

850
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 7: I mean, you call yourself a reducer, and I get

851
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 7: that sort of play on words, but like, I don't know,

852
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 7: what is it? What is it about all of that

853
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,800
Speaker 7: that makes it work, that makes that makes you enjoy

854
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 7: what you do as well? Because that, to me is fascinating.

855
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 3: I'll say that I think it always changes. At the

856
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 3: time that I was more of a beat making producer,

857
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 3: which are the days we're talking about now, was not.

858
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:30,799
Speaker 3: I was not good at the uh psychology part and

859
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 3: the collaborating I was not good. I was much more

860
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 3: of a I know what's good and you're going to

861
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 3: do it my way, probably for my hip hop early

862
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 3: hip hop days. And then as I started working with

863
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 3: more rock bands, I started understanding more the dynamics of

864
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 3: working with a group of people. And now the most

865
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 3: interesting thing for me when I work with an artist

866
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 3: is I can clearly point out where I think the

867
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 3: strengths and weaknesses are. But I don't feel like it's

868
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 3: my responsibility to solve the weaknesses. All I have to

869
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 3: do is point out, like, hm, this section here isn't

870
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 3: as good as it could be what can we do

871
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 3: to make it better? Whereas in the old days, I'd

872
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 3: say this section isn't as good and this is what

873
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:24,240
Speaker 3: we're going to do. Now it's this part isn't as good.

874
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 3: How do you guys suggest we fix it? And all

875
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 3: of that is subjective. It's all based on your opinion, right,

876
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 3: I mean like it's it's all how you're all. It

877
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 3: is his opinion. Everything, everything has to do with opinion.

878
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 3: The whole job, the whole job of doing this is

879
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 3: pure opinion.

880
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's yeah, that's.

881
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 2: So learn Okay, So before before I get to the

882
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 2: Beastie Boys, well, unpaid Bill sort.

883
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: Of sorry y divert, but because.

884
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 2: Actually my next question leads to what you would headed

885
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 2: with uh unpaid Bill, which is basically, whenever you show

886
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 2: up and whenever you show up in the credits, two

887
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 2: things are bound to happen, and that is you're going to.

888
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: Reduce the sound.

889
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 2: So we already talked about the idea of you stripping

890
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 2: stuff down to just its bare bones and making it loud.

891
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 2: But it's also you really introduced the idea of cross

892
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:29,319
Speaker 2: genres in modern hip hop music. I mean with with

893
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 2: run DMC having their biggest hit with Walk This Way,

894
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 2: even with the Beastie Boys, at least in their their

895
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 2: narrative of it, like we were making fun of smoking

896
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 2: in the boys rooms, and now you can go with

897
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 2: fight for your Right to party. But even with Johnny

898
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 2: Cash doing hurt, or even with Mick Jaggers singing over

899
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 2: and peached the President, even with the stuff with Slayer

900
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 2: or working with Neil Diamond, like there's always an element

901
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 2: or Kanye rhyming over industrial noises. There seems to be

902
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 2: a common denominator of you pushing artists. I don't willing

903
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 2: or unwillingly. I mean, Kanye seems like the type of

904
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: person that's like, let's let's let's go to the edge

905
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 2: of it, let's do something different, whereas like run DMC

906
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 2: was legendary for not liking or wanting to do Walk

907
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 2: This Way the way that you wanted them to do it.

908
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 2: So how much hold handing and Jedi mind tricks and psychology.

909
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 1: It's all psychology?

910
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 2: It seems like, yeah, how how much of that is

911
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 2: a nightmare for you when you just want to make

912
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 2: the damn song and leave.

913
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 3: My whole relationship to it has changed over the years,

914
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 3: so in the case of run DMC. Then it was

915
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 3: frustrating and I didn't have the tools to deal with it.

916
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 3: But luckily Russell called called run Indee and said, just

917
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 3: do whatever Rick says. It's like, really knows what he's doing.

918
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 3: Just do what Rick says. So had that not happened,

919
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 3: they wouldn't have they wouldn't have been on the record.

920
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 3: That record wouldn't have happened. So that's how that happened.

921
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 2: And even after Rock Box and King of Rock, they

922
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 2: don't know that they're on a winning formula, just like

923
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 2: one one moment away from super Jackpot.

924
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 3: Well, this had less to do with it being a

925
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 3: rock song. It had more to do with singing someone

926
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 3: else's words and singing someone else's which they had never

927
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,879
Speaker 3: done before, and singing someone else's words that they didn't

928
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 3: necessarily like.

929
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: How long did that process take? Walk this way? I'm talking.

930
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 3: Same as everything you know, same as everything else. The

931
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 3: only thing that was different was because Steve and Joe

932
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 3: appeared on the record. There was an extra day working

933
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 3: on it with those guys playing guitar and singing, singing vocals,

934
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 3: the guys from Merrismith.

935
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 2: With the Beastie Boys, Well, first of all, I want

936
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 2: to know who introduced ah. I have so many questions.

937
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 2: Number one, the bast groove rock hard twelve inches? Who

938
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 2: were the Latin Rascals because I've always I've seen their

939
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 2: names and like all these twelve inches from eighty nine,

940
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,439
Speaker 2: eighty three to eighty five, and then poof Nothing, Who

941
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 2: were the Latin Rascals.

942
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:27,239
Speaker 3: The Latin Rascals were two club DJs who worked at Shakedown,

943
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 3: Arthur Baker's studio, who invented this is pre sampler. There

944
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:40,359
Speaker 3: were no samplers and they invented away. It was their

945
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 3: own style of doing remixes where they would do these

946
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:50,879
Speaker 3: edits on half inch tape where they would repeat the

947
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 3: same like through editing. So it was like it wasn't scratching.

948
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 3: There was no sampling yet, and there was this other

949
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 3: way of manipulating the music. Yeah, and the Latin Rascals

950
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 3: invented it, and they did it on all of Arthur's

951
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 3: records and they did a lot of club remixes that

952
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 3: and I can't remember what they did on that. I

953
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,760
Speaker 3: don't remember them doing anything on those, but it's possible.

954
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 2: On this Party's getting rough that little see Philadelphia where

955
00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 2: I come from has a very different relationship with this

956
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 2: Party's Getting rough and Hold It Now Hit It? You know,

957
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 2: because Lady B and her Street be show that came

958
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 2: on a Power ninety nine between like twelve and five

959
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:46,439
Speaker 2: pm on Sundays, they made they basically made an edit

960
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 2: where they would play that middle sketch of this Party's

961
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 2: getting rough where it's like, oh man, you just fess it, man,

962
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 2: you know you you you didn't even turn up the

963
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 2: boombox and all that stuff, all the all the all

964
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 2: that chaos in the middle, and then they attached Tomber. Yeah,

965
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 2: this is this like the Philly anthem. So they made

966
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 2: they kind of made an edit. Philly made it editor

967
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 2: of their own of this Party's Getting rough and the

968
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 2: Beastie groove and just between Latin rascals and mantronics, just

969
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,919
Speaker 2: the the idea of like multiple sampling or like those

970
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 2: crazy edits. That's all we heard. But what's even weirder

971
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 2: for Holding Now Hit It? Because of a pressing mistake.

972
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 2: The initial def Jam pressings of Holding Now Hit It

973
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 2: had the a cappella as side one, Yes, had the

974
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 2: a cappella as side one and the the DMX drum

975
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 2: Machine version.

976
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: That's on the album as side too.

977
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 2: We never heard of the drum machine version in Philly ever,

978
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 2: so when they're playing holding now hit it, there's no

979
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 2: such thing as an a cappella or you jogglingly called

980
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 2: it acapolca version, and we thought, yo, dude, it was such.

981
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 2: It was the most radical shit we ever heard because

982
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 2: our thing was like, the only way I canna describe it.

983
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:19,240
Speaker 1: Is if you ever seen pooty Tang. And when Chris.

984
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 2: Rock asked, the DJ introduces that song of silence, like

985
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:23,760
Speaker 2: and now this new song.

986
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 1: Slence, I'm just saying he's friends with Chris Rock. I

987
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 1: don't know. Anyway.

988
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 2: The whole point was that we made up in our

989
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 2: minds like yo, these dudes are so incredible they don't.

990
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: Even need music and hold it now hit it.

991
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:48,239
Speaker 2: The a cappella was number one on the Power nine

992
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 2: at nine for months to the point where when we

993
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 2: got the album and heard that drum now, it's weird

994
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 2: because in Florida, every everyone from down South, I know,

995
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 2: even Fromier, tells the story like when you're getting your car.

996
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 1: System, the song that you tested to.

997
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 2: See if you're if your car system was right was

998
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 2: holding out hit It because you like you mix your

999
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:20,280
Speaker 2: your joints loud as fuck. When we got that in Philly,

1000
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 2: we didn't know what the like, Yo, what's this drum ship?

1001
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 2: Like this ain't on the album. To this day, I

1002
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 2: will never acknowledge the album version of holding Out Hit.

1003
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,800
Speaker 2: I will only DJ the a cappella.

1004
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 3: Version, but even love to hear I've never heard the

1005
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 3: a cappella version. I'd love to hear it. I don't

1006
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 3: remember ever hearing it. I bet it's great, probably better.

1007
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: That's crazy.

1008
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 8: It's your label. It's the first acapella in the history.

1009
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 8: Like love that, Yeah, this is the first in history.

1010
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:58,479
Speaker 2: And in working their album, like how involved are you

1011
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 2: with with the marketing? And because I'll be honest with

1012
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 2: you for two from eighty five till we purchased the

1013
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 2: album and saw the gatefold cover, I didn't know the

1014
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 2: Beastie Boys were white. We thought they were Puerto Rican

1015
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 2: affiliate at least, So was that by design to like

1016
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,359
Speaker 2: not put them on the album cover and just ride

1017
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 2: it out till.

1018
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 3: Not at all the way we did it. We didn't.

1019
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 3: We never even thought about it. On the the seven

1020
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 3: original Deaf Jam singles, the Maroon label singles of which

1021
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 3: where rock Hard was one of those. I think that's

1022
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 3: the only Beast record that was. Yeah, there was an

1023
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 3: l there was that. There was Hollis Creek, Hollis Crew,

1024
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 3: Jimmy Spicer, Jim y'all, I'm a Girl Watcher with Papa

1025
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 3: d and Papa Son. I don't think that was on Maroon.

1026
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,760
Speaker 1: Oh okay, Well there was also mc A and BAZOUDI.

1027
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

1028
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 1: Zuti.

1029
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 3: Zuti is an engineer in New York named Jay Burnett,

1030
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 3: and he was the guy who turned me onto the

1031
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 3: studio that we lovingly renamed chun King, the original the

1032
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 3: original Chunk King, And the reason I called it chun

1033
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 3: King was I didn't want anyone to know that it

1034
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:22,320
Speaker 3: was such a terrible place that we were working in,

1035
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 3: so I made up Chunking.

1036
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 1: House of Metal was like a just the.

1037
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 3: The one on that was on.

1038
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: No, it's before the very.

1039
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 3: One, before the veryck one it was on. It was

1040
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 3: it church between Broom and Grand something like that, across

1041
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 3: from the there's that police building, you know, the police building.

1042
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 3: It was on that block, five floor walk up. The

1043
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 3: rest of the building were like sweatshops. It was a

1044
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 3: really weird place.

1045
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 1: It was.

1046
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 3: It was really Again, I didn't know this because I

1047
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 3: wasn't into it. But it was just a drug deal

1048
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 3: in place I think had they just had a studio,

1049
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 3: but it was mainly drug dealing. But I didn't know that.

1050
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: I speaking Steve, Yes, you know, speaking of which now,

1051
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: I don't mean I was just reminiscent.

1052
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 9: I think I I think I was at that place

1053
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 9: dropping off tapes as an intern. Yeah the first place, Yeah,

1054
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 9: it was. I was only there once. So but we recorded.

1055
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 3: We recorded all of the Beat Boys stuff there. We

1056
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 3: recorded Raising Hell there. We recorded a lot of the

1057
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,200
Speaker 3: early Deft Gem stuff there, maybe all of it, maybe

1058
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 3: all of it.

1059
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 2: I was going to say, Steve, that that d m

1060
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 2: X drum machine that's hanging in our studio, Yeah that's ricks.

1061
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 9: Yeah, I know, I know this is all tell the world.

1062
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 9: But you know, I mean that one question knows that

1063
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 9: in this room?

1064
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: Okay, is that a stolen or no? We know? Is it?

1065
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:01,560
Speaker 1: We you know what we had to re record.

1066
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 2: I can't write left handed with John Legend, and we

1067
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 2: were running out of studios and it just so happens

1068
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:11,280
Speaker 2: that that was open, and when we got there, we

1069
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 2: were told this is our last day and kind of

1070
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 2: you know, I was like doing my fan boys thing like,

1071
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 2: oh my god, this is the old chun king and no, no,

1072
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 2: and whoever the owner was a guy he's like just

1073
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 2: like on some me and Joe Green here kid catch.

1074
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: Wow.

1075
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 2: He showed me this is this d m X and

1076
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 2: he's has created you know, all the deaf jam days

1077
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 2: has been here forever. You know, you'll take care of

1078
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 2: this and I took it.

1079
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 3: Sorry anyway that may that may or may not be true.

1080
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure.

1081
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 2: There's multiple I'm sure there's multiple DMX drum scenes. But

1082
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 2: I prefer my version of it was the was the

1083
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 2: just the the flood game of Licensed to Ill? Was

1084
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 2: that scary to you or overwhelming at the time? And

1085
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 2: how are you guys treated by Columbia Records?

1086
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 3: By this point we were never treated well by anybody.

1087
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: Even when selling twelve million units? Yes, even then, man,

1088
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 1: really wow?

1089
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 2: So you were still we were off the red nose

1090
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 2: the rain? I mean, was this it was this yet

1091
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 2: Nakoff period? Was this U Matola period?

1092
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 3: Like? Where was Yetnikoff? And al Teller? Those were the

1093
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 3: people that I don't.

1094
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:38,920
Speaker 1: Tell her from. MCA was at Columbia.

1095
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 3: First, he was the president of Columbia at the time

1096
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 3: that we were there.

1097
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 1: Damn.

1098
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 3: The only person that I ever really dealt with on

1099
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 3: a regular basis was Jeff Jones, who was a great guy.

1100
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 3: He was a product manager and he now runs Apple

1101
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 3: Records for the Beatles based in London, and he's still

1102
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 3: around and he remembers, like, he told me stories of

1103
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 3: things that happened back then. I didn't remember, but it

1104
01:01:01,080 --> 01:01:05,439
Speaker 3: was funny, like like with License to Ill, he said.

1105
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:07,959
Speaker 3: He goes into a meeting, he's like, well, Rick Rubin says,

1106
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 3: we can't put a barcode on the outside of the cover,

1107
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 3: and uh, you know, we have to figure out how

1108
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 3: we're going to do this because we've never done this before.

1109
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 3: And that, you know, the people in the me are like,

1110
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 3: who the fuck is Rick Rubin?

1111
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 1: What do you mean?

1112
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 3: It's like, we do this all we're doing this. Of

1113
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 3: course it's going to have a barcode. He's like, no,

1114
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:24,880
Speaker 3: but Rick won't let us have the barcode. He's like,

1115
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 3: he's insistent. So again, I had no memory of that.

1116
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 3: But we would fight. We would fight for the art

1117
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 3: to get the art the way we want it all

1118
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 3: the time, and people just didn't know what it was,

1119
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 3: you know, say, very little understanding of what it was

1120
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 3: that we were doing.

1121
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 2: Who can sceptualize the album cover for License to Ill?

1122
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 3: That was me? And what was hard, I'll tell you.

1123
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 3: I had just read the led Zeppelin book Hammer of

1124
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 3: the Gods, about them being on tour and all the

1125
01:01:54,120 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 3: debauchery of crazy rock stardom, and and there were images

1126
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 3: of led Zeppelin's airplane in the book, and it just

1127
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 3: seemed like, wow, that's just like the height of decadence.

1128
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 3: This an airplane with this crazy rock and roll lifestyle

1129
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 3: going on. And I thought it would be interesting to

1130
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 3: have a beastie boy, a beastie boy airplane representing this

1131
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,480
Speaker 3: sort of crazy debauchery all made up. You know, none

1132
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:27,919
Speaker 3: of this was true. We were kids, We were kids

1133
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 3: in school, you know, this was none of this was accurate.

1134
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 3: This was a fantasy based on loving, loving led Zeppelin.

1135
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 3: It was the fantasy of, well, what about a Beastie

1136
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 3: Boys jumbo jet that rams into a mountain like that?

1137
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 3: That's like the way the story ends is the it

1138
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 3: goes with this crazy rock and roll lifestyle. And I thought, well,

1139
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 3: because it would be a gatefold, it'd be like you'd

1140
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 3: see the front of it, and you'd think it was

1141
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 3: you just think it was an airplane, and then you'd

1142
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 3: open it up and you'd get the reveal of the

1143
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 3: back and then yeah. And then when I would drive

1144
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 3: from my parents' house on Long Island into the city,

1145
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 3: I would always pass the globe from the that's in

1146
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 3: the centerfold, and I was thought, oh, it'd be great,

1147
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 3: like someday that would be a great thing to use

1148
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 3: in a photograph. And then the opportunity was with the

1149
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:22,400
Speaker 3: Beastie Boys.

1150
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 2: The inner sleeve has anyone ever, you know, it's weird

1151
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 2: when I seen it. I remember getting the album like

1152
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:33,439
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving of eighty six, so I would like to think

1153
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,440
Speaker 2: that I think the album came out in November of

1154
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 2: eighty six, like late November, but this happened. The album

1155
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 2: cover occurred like nine months after the Space Settle challenge thing.

1156
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 4: The challenges joint the challenge like traumatize the shit out

1157
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:50,800
Speaker 4: of me.

1158
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, in kindergarten, yo.

1159
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like so so that album and see that

1160
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:02,439
Speaker 2: like just traumatize me even more.

1161
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 3: So.

1162
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:06,040
Speaker 1: It's weird, like I have love this.

1163
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 2: Love relationship with with the album because it's so you know,

1164
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 2: my monumental but it's like, ah, the nights.

1165
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: I just looked at that album cover like it's killing me.

1166
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 3: I didn't. I didn't know about the crash, and it

1167
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 3: didn't I'll tell you now in I knew it at

1168
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 3: the time, but I didn't know enough to be able

1169
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 3: to get it the way I really wanted it. But

1170
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 3: it never was the way I really wanted it, which

1171
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 3: was I wanted to look more really like a photograph,

1172
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 3: and instead it looks more like a Mad magazine cover

1173
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:40,439
Speaker 3: cartoon like it. It's more cartoony looking than I would

1174
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 3: have liked it to be. I would have liked it

1175
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 3: to be like photo realist.

1176
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 1: Who will be ohms. The artist that drew was he

1177
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 1: a friend of yours or no?

1178
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 3: No, he was a friend of the guy who was

1179
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:58,919
Speaker 3: our art director at the label, Steve Byron was his name,

1180
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 3: And I would just say, hey, this is the vision

1181
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 3: for the cover. How do we get this made? And

1182
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 3: then he had his friend he commissioned it. But which

1183
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 3: is why it didn't come out the way I wanted

1184
01:05:09,120 --> 01:05:10,720
Speaker 3: it to come out. You know, it's like, uh, so

1185
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 3: you've seen it, We're disappointed. Yeah, I said, this isn't

1186
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 3: really It's like the image is right, but the way

1187
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 3: it was done was not right. It felt more like

1188
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 3: a cartoon. But it was like, well, the you know,

1189
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:24,840
Speaker 3: the album's coming out and we have no time. It's

1190
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 3: like okay, and to eat me that was not that

1191
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 3: was a creative advice that did that.

1192
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 1: I didn't know. That was not my idea?

1193
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 2: So what did you think about Eminem's to it?

1194
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 1: But then I forgot you produced that? He produced that?

1195
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:39,440
Speaker 2: Did you talk to you want it? Or did he

1196
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 2: say I wanted to wi one? Eminem's album, Uh not

1197
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:44,720
Speaker 2: a music to be murdered by? I was the one

1198
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 2: before that one. It was the Recovery at the pull

1199
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 2: Up Recovery. It just came out like a year or

1200
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:52,200
Speaker 2: two ago.

1201
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 1: Oh I'm looking right now to produce that. Yeah, we wait,

1202
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 1: which would you white? Question? Which is rick? How do

1203
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 1: you pick your projects.

1204
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:02,920
Speaker 3: Just based on liking them, either liking the music or

1205
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 3: liking the artist one or the other.

1206
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,360
Speaker 1: Like Coma Cozi Sorry Kamakazi, that was it?

1207
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't produced that.

1208
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 1: Oh I thought you produced the last comic Cozi. Yikes? Okay,

1209
01:06:16,040 --> 01:06:17,400
Speaker 1: I stand corrected. Well.

1210
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 2: Tribute to Licensed to ILLM so oh cool? Yeah, as

1211
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:24,439
Speaker 2: an album coming just.

1212
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 6: On the back of Bill's question, Rick, how come you

1213
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 6: only did one? I noticed you only did U the

1214
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 6: Andrew Dice Clay album, like that was your only comedian

1215
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 6: that you work with?

1216
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 3: Well, we did. I think we did five five Andrew

1217
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:39,520
Speaker 3: Dice Clay out right right, And I always looked for

1218
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 3: other comedians to work with, but never found there was

1219
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 3: At one point I was interested in recording Carlos Mencia.

1220
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 3: I don't know, oh wow, And I think we like

1221
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:53,600
Speaker 3: started talking about it, maybe even recorded a little bit,

1222
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 3: but it just never never came together. For whatever reason.

1223
01:06:57,800 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 5: Have you gotten any more requests though comedian?

1224
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 3: Why? Well? I love Girod. I think he's incredible. I've

1225
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:07,040
Speaker 3: never thought about him doing an album, but that's a

1226
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 3: really interesting idea.

1227
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 5: Okay, he wants it. I'm sorry.

1228
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 2: How long did you have to bug Public get him

1229
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:17,320
Speaker 2: until Chuck finally relented and signed to the label.

1230
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,439
Speaker 3: It was a really long time. It was a long time.

1231
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 3: I want to say it felt like forever then, but

1232
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 3: it was probably nine months, maybe a year, but fort

1233
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:30,120
Speaker 3: you know, when you're twenty years old, a year is forever.

1234
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:34,560
Speaker 1: No, that's a long time. And they had.

1235
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 3: A post it note of Chuck's number next to my phone,

1236
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 3: and anytime I would walk by the phone, I'd see

1237
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 3: it and I would call. And then Bill Stephanie, who

1238
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:46,520
Speaker 3: was our first employee at def JAM. He knew Chuck,

1239
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 3: and at one point I got so frustrated, I said,

1240
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 3: you have to tell Chuck. If he doesn't sign to

1241
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:57,640
Speaker 3: deaf Jam, I'm firing you. Like, you have to convince

1242
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 3: him he has to do this. And it's not like

1243
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:02,520
Speaker 3: he wanted to sign to someone else. He didn't want

1244
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 3: to make records. That was the thing. It's like, here's

1245
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:07,320
Speaker 3: your's too old. He thought he was too old.

1246
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 2: How did you How did you feel about the Bomb

1247
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 2: Squad's production methods, because that's the total opposite of your

1248
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 2: reduction love Brooch loved it.

1249
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:18,920
Speaker 3: I like I like different things, you know I'm not.

1250
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:22,519
Speaker 3: I like all kinds of different things. I actually heard

1251
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 3: something on your on your James Brown recent DJ set right.

1252
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 3: Maybe it was nine two if I remember correctly, For

1253
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:37,599
Speaker 3: the first time I heard what I think was the

1254
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:40,759
Speaker 3: inspiration for the Bomb Squad that I'd never heard before.

1255
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:42,800
Speaker 1: Wow, I have.

1256
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:44,760
Speaker 3: To find I'll find it and send it to you,

1257
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 3: just so you have for your own reference. I think

1258
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:49,960
Speaker 3: you pieced you put the pieces of a puzzle together

1259
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:53,400
Speaker 3: for me that I never knew were there. I see.

1260
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:58,599
Speaker 2: You know during this period at least between eighty six

1261
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 2: and eighty nine, I mean between your work with ll

1262
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:05,320
Speaker 2: and I'm curious as to why you did not produce

1263
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 2: bigger endeavor And I always wanted to know how you

1264
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 2: felt about like the La Posse and I Need Love

1265
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:15,519
Speaker 2: and all that stuff. But you're doing these Slayer records

1266
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 2: and not to mention, like I mean your heart met,

1267
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 2: Like how what is your approach to Are you just

1268
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 2: leading from the gut or do you have like a

1269
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:29,120
Speaker 2: mapped out plan that you're explaining to the group. This

1270
01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:30,680
Speaker 2: is the vision I have for you, Like how do

1271
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:31,679
Speaker 2: you work with Slayer?

1272
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:35,799
Speaker 3: Just going into the studio and first going into pre production,

1273
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:38,840
Speaker 3: talking about the parts in the songs, helping make them

1274
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:41,240
Speaker 3: as good as they could be, and then figuring out

1275
01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:45,640
Speaker 3: how to In their case, it was interesting because they

1276
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 3: already were popular, a popular underground band. Like the night

1277
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 3: I saw them they sold out the Ritz, which was

1278
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:56,719
Speaker 3: pretty substantial place I saw them at. The Rits blew

1279
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 3: my mind. It's like, I like heavy music. I never

1280
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 3: heard of these guys before, and this is one of

1281
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,840
Speaker 3: the craziest, heaviest concerts I've ever seen in my life.

1282
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 3: How is this? It's like a parallel universe that this exists.

1283
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:11,840
Speaker 3: And and I talked to them that night after the

1284
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 3: show and then ended up flying out meeting them in

1285
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 3: California after that.

1286
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 1: Who was there drummer?

1287
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:21,439
Speaker 2: Because I've never heard I've never heard someone play double

1288
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:22,519
Speaker 2: kick that intense.

1289
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:24,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and.

1290
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:30,400
Speaker 3: You know, not not only is it intense, it's funky.

1291
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 3: That's the He's the only of all the heavy metal

1292
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:37,599
Speaker 3: drummers I've ever heard who play in that double kick

1293
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:42,639
Speaker 3: drum style. He's the only one where it's groovy. Maybe

1294
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 3: Lars isn't that Lars thing though, That's not what Lars does. Okay,

1295
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:54,880
Speaker 3: that's what Lars does groovy. Lars does something else. So

1296
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,280
Speaker 3: it's more like a prog a fast prog rock drummer.

1297
01:10:57,439 --> 01:11:00,080
Speaker 2: So some kid at school puts me on you know,

1298
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 2: by the time I get a nation of millions, some

1299
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 2: kid puts me onto Random Blood and then uh plays yeah, yeah,

1300
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 2: she you know when I was listening to she watch

1301
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 2: Channel Zone and they're like, well, you know, that's that's

1302
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:15,640
Speaker 2: a Slayer song and playing the original journ and then

1303
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 2: like I started buying.

1304
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:18,360
Speaker 1: The records just as the complete its.

1305
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, trying to play that ship because there was

1306
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 2: like a hard rock band that I joined, like in

1307
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:28,040
Speaker 2: high school for like four months, but I quit because

1308
01:11:28,200 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 2: like I can't do double foot action that good. But

1309
01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:35,519
Speaker 2: it's like, how did you capture those performances? Like are

1310
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:36,760
Speaker 2: there jam sessions?

1311
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 1: Are there?

1312
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:40,679
Speaker 2: Like, guys, here's a chorus's or is it just like okay,

1313
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:44,559
Speaker 2: open e open minor just boss the wall go.

1314
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 3: No no, no no no. They they wrote the songs.

1315
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 3: I came in. I said, maybe this part's too long,

1316
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:54,200
Speaker 3: maybe this part's too short, maybe we need another part here.

1317
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:58,080
Speaker 3: But very it's all them, it's all them. And Slayer

1318
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:02,559
Speaker 3: were unbelievable, and then it was just properly recording them

1319
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 3: in a way not to screw it up. And here

1320
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:10,160
Speaker 3: was a big breakthrough. Sonic breakthrough in my mind was

1321
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:13,760
Speaker 3: the only records you could hear that were that approached

1322
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:17,840
Speaker 3: that speed at that time would be like Metallica's first record.

1323
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:19,639
Speaker 3: I think that's all that was out. I don't even

1324
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 3: think their second record was out yet. And yeah, but Metallica,

1325
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:30,479
Speaker 3: those records were recorded like a traditional rock band, which

1326
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:32,519
Speaker 3: again it like it goes back to the hip hop

1327
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:36,679
Speaker 3: argument in the beginning, it's like nobody's looking at the

1328
01:12:36,720 --> 01:12:39,080
Speaker 3: thing for what it is, to make it the best

1329
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:41,519
Speaker 3: version of what it is. People are looking at Okay. Well,

1330
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:45,719
Speaker 3: on rock records, we use big drum sounds with long

1331
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:51,479
Speaker 3: with long reverbs. Yeah, long reverbs, long sounds, and that's

1332
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:54,000
Speaker 3: what makes them sound big. But if you're playing fast,

1333
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:57,240
Speaker 3: and if you do that, it's just a blur. You

1334
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:03,160
Speaker 3: don't hear anything. It's just exactly so I'm looking at Okay,

1335
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:06,599
Speaker 3: this band's incredible, and they play tight and fast, and

1336
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:09,559
Speaker 3: the key is how do we get it to sound

1337
01:13:09,760 --> 01:13:15,719
Speaker 3: like like you're listening to them with a magnifying glass,

1338
01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 3: not how do you blend it together into an impressionist painting.

1339
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 3: So in the case of Slayer, it was, okay, how

1340
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:30,320
Speaker 3: do we make the drums sounds super tight, super tiny,

1341
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:34,760
Speaker 3: because the speed of the drums, the only way you're

1342
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:37,840
Speaker 3: going to even be able to hear it is if

1343
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:44,960
Speaker 3: they're basically taps, you know, like tiny little taps. So

1344
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:46,880
Speaker 3: it really a lot of it has to do with

1345
01:13:47,120 --> 01:13:51,679
Speaker 3: in each of these cases of the things that I've

1346
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 3: on the records where I've worked on where they sound

1347
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 3: different than the records that came before them. It was

1348
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:59,280
Speaker 3: only looking at them for what they are and figuring

1349
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:01,360
Speaker 3: out how do we make this thing sound good? Not

1350
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:04,000
Speaker 3: how do we use the baggage of the past, how

1351
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 3: do we apply old methods to this? It's how do

1352
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:09,680
Speaker 3: we what's right for what this is?

1353
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:14,960
Speaker 2: So how do you know the difference between what to

1354
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 2: give a slayer as opposed to like the word that

1355
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:22,759
Speaker 2: you did with the cull as far as rock sounds

1356
01:14:22,760 --> 01:14:23,320
Speaker 2: are concerned.

1357
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:26,960
Speaker 1: Now, I know you know, like how much.

1358
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:30,600
Speaker 2: Research do you have to put into the acts that

1359
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:32,160
Speaker 2: you work with to know.

1360
01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:34,360
Speaker 1: What their strengths and their weaknesses are.

1361
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:39,280
Speaker 3: I put no research in whatsoever. But the research that

1362
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:41,439
Speaker 3: I do is as a fan all the time, listening

1363
01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 3: to music all the time, and I listen and then

1364
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:49,639
Speaker 3: based on what I'm hearing, I'll make suggestions just based

1365
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:54,599
Speaker 3: on whatever whatever little bit that I've picked up from

1366
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:55,960
Speaker 3: listening to music my whole life.

1367
01:14:57,000 --> 01:14:58,720
Speaker 1: We should probably be asking to LL this.

1368
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:00,920
Speaker 2: But since you were there to help make the track,

1369
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:08,320
Speaker 2: what exactly went between LL and cool Mode that made

1370
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:09,920
Speaker 2: him make Jack the Ripper?

1371
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:14,519
Speaker 3: I remember it? Yeah, I don't know that anything happened.

1372
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 3: I think it might have just been that.

1373
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:19,200
Speaker 2: I mean, did you realize that you were making a

1374
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:20,639
Speaker 2: cool mod diss record.

1375
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:25,439
Speaker 3: Nope, and one of the first disc records. I never

1376
01:15:25,479 --> 01:15:25,920
Speaker 3: thought about it.

1377
01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:28,679
Speaker 5: That was your boy friend back in the day.

1378
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:31,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I loved him.

1379
01:15:31,720 --> 01:15:34,200
Speaker 3: You You never thought about it that way at all.

1380
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 1: And it goes back to.

1381
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:38,120
Speaker 4: Your go go love too, because it was the Chuck

1382
01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:40,400
Speaker 4: Brown tample, the sol disamble.

1383
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:44,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh yeah, I forgot. I forgot that. Ashley's George's

1384
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:48,479
Speaker 1: clip is yeah, Chuck, it's not just the paint and

1385
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:54,000
Speaker 1: full break Yeah. How how Uh? What was your experience

1386
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 1: like shooting Tougher than Leather?

1387
01:15:57,320 --> 01:15:58,920
Speaker 3: Terrible experience you directed?

1388
01:15:58,960 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1389
01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:03,320
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, Okay, I'm a first time director.

1390
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:08,280
Speaker 1: What what what can you what? What? What advice can

1391
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:10,880
Speaker 1: you give me? I mean, sorry, my movie's already.

1392
01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:12,519
Speaker 3: Done, so okay. I was going to say, if you

1393
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 3: have an opportunity not to do it, don't leave.

1394
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 1: Wow.

1395
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:19,160
Speaker 2: Okay, So tell me about your experience in directing Tougher

1396
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:19,599
Speaker 2: than Leather?

1397
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:23,680
Speaker 3: Uh, Well, where I didn't know what I was doing.

1398
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:26,760
Speaker 3: In the recording studio, it was easy because there were

1399
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 3: so few people there and mistakes were low and on

1400
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:35,360
Speaker 3: a movie set, there are many more people, and the

1401
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 3: schedule is like, Hey, I'm going to be an hour

1402
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:41,800
Speaker 3: late to the studio today. Talk to you, talk to

1403
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:45,439
Speaker 3: you guys later, No problem, movie sets not like that.

1404
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:50,000
Speaker 3: It's like everything was and yeah, and we were our

1405
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:54,320
Speaker 3: whole lives were you know, I slept until I never

1406
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:56,400
Speaker 3: took a class before three in the afternoon when I

1407
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 3: went to n YU, because I slept until probably one,

1408
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:03,000
Speaker 3: and then we went out all night every night. So

1409
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:05,559
Speaker 3: the idea of showing up on a movie set at

1410
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 3: six o'clock in the morning every day, that wasn't anything

1411
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:14,200
Speaker 3: that I anticipated, and that was not a It was

1412
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:19,360
Speaker 3: not a realistic ask in the way my life worked.

1413
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,800
Speaker 3: So it was a terrible experience and I wouldn't wish

1414
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:24,599
Speaker 3: it on, wouldn't wish it on my enemy.

1415
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 2: Did you insist on directing that movie or was it

1416
01:17:28,240 --> 01:17:31,880
Speaker 2: like you had an upcoming aprier to do it or

1417
01:17:31,960 --> 01:17:37,559
Speaker 2: something like? How did you wind up holding the director's manual?

1418
01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:41,120
Speaker 3: Me and my friend Rick wrote the idea. It was

1419
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:44,000
Speaker 3: Rick was really more the writer than I. We would

1420
01:17:44,000 --> 01:17:46,120
Speaker 3: throw ideas together, but Rick was the main writer. Rick

1421
01:17:46,160 --> 01:17:49,400
Speaker 3: Manelo and who was the guy who ran the desk

1422
01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:52,960
Speaker 3: at my dorm, so he'd be the night He would

1423
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:56,320
Speaker 3: work at the dorm from midnight to six. He was

1424
01:17:56,360 --> 01:17:59,679
Speaker 3: the night watchman essentially, and the dorm was pretty quiet

1425
01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:01,960
Speaker 3: from nine to six, so I would usually get home

1426
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:04,439
Speaker 3: from the club two three and I would sit there

1427
01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:07,160
Speaker 3: with Rick and we would order food from Cozy Supenberger

1428
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:10,240
Speaker 3: around the corner, and we would watch watch old movies

1429
01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:13,719
Speaker 3: on TV. And he was a film major and film

1430
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:17,519
Speaker 3: historian new tremendous amount and then in later years ended up,

1431
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:24,840
Speaker 3: you know, working with Darren Aronofski and James Gray. James Gray,

1432
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 3: some great directors, and all of my friends who were

1433
01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:31,200
Speaker 3: directors would always anytime anyone I knew who made movies

1434
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:34,599
Speaker 3: had a movie question, they would all call Rick Minelo

1435
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:38,640
Speaker 3: because he knew more than everybody that Rick Minelo was

1436
01:18:38,680 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 3: the main scriptwriter. He's in it too. I can't remember

1437
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:45,200
Speaker 3: what his character. He was played, sort of the sidekick

1438
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 3: guy to my guy. I can't remember his character's name.

1439
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:52,559
Speaker 3: I can't remember. I really blocked out a lot about

1440
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:57,000
Speaker 3: that movie. Actually, he was also in the Beastie Boys

1441
01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:01,799
Speaker 3: video for No Sleep Till Brooklyn. He was like the club,

1442
01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:04,280
Speaker 3: you know, in the beginning there's like a skit with

1443
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:06,519
Speaker 3: a that's Rick Minelo.

1444
01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:10,040
Speaker 1: So he's been in a few Deaf Jam.

1445
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:14,320
Speaker 3: Products or yes, and he directed Going Back to Cali

1446
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:18,519
Speaker 3: as well. Oh the video of Going Back to Cali,

1447
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:22,840
Speaker 3: which we storyboarded together at the desk at Weinstein the

1448
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:24,759
Speaker 3: dormitory at NYU.

1449
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:29,280
Speaker 2: Okay, So something I don't know, and I don't know

1450
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:33,839
Speaker 2: if you ever went on record. I never knew how

1451
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 2: or why you left Deaf Jam. I just remember your

1452
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:42,000
Speaker 2: name being on the executive producer for a Nation of Millions,

1453
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:44,519
Speaker 2: and then when I looked for your name on Fear

1454
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:46,679
Speaker 2: of a Black Planet, you weren't there anymore.

1455
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:49,400
Speaker 1: And then I next I heard of you. You had

1456
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:51,120
Speaker 1: a funeral for the word deaf.

1457
01:19:53,160 --> 01:19:58,200
Speaker 2: So what I mean, why did you decide to leave

1458
01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:00,519
Speaker 2: the your your your first love?

1459
01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 3: It really had to There were two things going on.

1460
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:08,519
Speaker 3: One was over the time together ever many years. It

1461
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:11,679
Speaker 3: was three, four or five years. My relationship with Russell

1462
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:15,400
Speaker 3: was starting to I wouldn't say it ever turned bad,

1463
01:20:15,439 --> 01:20:17,720
Speaker 3: because we were always good friends, but it felt like

1464
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:24,080
Speaker 3: our what we wanted was changing, and I felt like

1465
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 3: I really loved our friendship and didn't want our friendship

1466
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:30,760
Speaker 3: to end, and I thought, if we remained partners, our

1467
01:20:30,800 --> 01:20:34,439
Speaker 3: friendship's probably going to end, so maybe it's better just

1468
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:37,000
Speaker 3: not to be partners anymore. And then there was something

1469
01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:40,080
Speaker 3: going on that really triggered. It had to do with

1470
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:44,160
Speaker 3: the way we were being treated by Columbia and what

1471
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:46,960
Speaker 3: we needed Columbia to do to fix the situation for

1472
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:50,800
Speaker 3: our artists. For example, I remember the first time we

1473
01:20:50,840 --> 01:20:56,559
Speaker 3: went to England and the guy at Columbia basically told us,

1474
01:20:57,080 --> 01:20:59,519
Speaker 3: you know, we're just we're not interested in your records,

1475
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:04,080
Speaker 3: said they said, we look at Columbia records in New

1476
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:07,760
Speaker 3: York as an albatross, and it's nothing against you personally,

1477
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:11,000
Speaker 3: but because you come from them, we're just not really interested.

1478
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:16,880
Speaker 1: Even though you're making that money. Yeah, I'm in eighty seven.

1479
01:21:17,080 --> 01:21:20,639
Speaker 2: You guys are so more units than Michael Jackson's bed.

1480
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah.

1481
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 3: It was unbelievable. I had a meeting with Al Teller

1482
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:28,519
Speaker 3: at the time, who's the president of the company, and

1483
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:31,880
Speaker 3: told him all of my concerns and I talked for

1484
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:33,920
Speaker 3: a half hour and I got really emotional. I started

1485
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:36,840
Speaker 3: crying because again, I care so much about this shit.

1486
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:41,320
Speaker 3: It's my whole life. And at the end of the conversation,

1487
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:42,800
Speaker 3: I say, you know, we got to we have to

1488
01:21:42,800 --> 01:21:46,160
Speaker 3: figure out a way to fix this, because if not,

1489
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:49,000
Speaker 3: I have to leave. Like I can't. I can't keep

1490
01:21:49,040 --> 01:21:51,800
Speaker 3: doing this. I can't put my heart into this and

1491
01:21:51,920 --> 01:21:55,840
Speaker 3: have partners who don't care or who are not going

1492
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:58,120
Speaker 3: as hard as they can, as hard as we're going.

1493
01:21:58,160 --> 01:22:01,240
Speaker 3: I can't do this. And and this after a half

1494
01:22:01,280 --> 01:22:03,920
Speaker 3: hour of my I remember, I had a pad, and

1495
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:07,160
Speaker 3: I listed all the things that were wrong in the relationship.

1496
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:11,439
Speaker 3: Whatever if I would have known that they put the

1497
01:22:11,479 --> 01:22:14,679
Speaker 3: wrong a side on the record, that that's an example

1498
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:17,360
Speaker 3: they've been on the list. Yeah, it's like, but that

1499
01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:19,400
Speaker 3: was indicative of what it was like. It was like

1500
01:22:19,479 --> 01:22:22,000
Speaker 3: nobody really cared. These guys do this ship that we

1501
01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:26,040
Speaker 3: don't understand, and luckily it sells, but we don't know

1502
01:22:26,080 --> 01:22:27,960
Speaker 3: what it is, and we don't really care what it is.

1503
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:32,000
Speaker 3: We just don't want it to stop. But they always

1504
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:38,520
Speaker 3: on one with Yetnikov or one on one with Dianor

1505
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:42,879
Speaker 3: or Mattola, none of those guys. Einer wasn't there, Matola

1506
01:22:42,960 --> 01:22:45,960
Speaker 3: wasn't there. Yet It was so the guy al Teller

1507
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:49,439
Speaker 3: was the president of the company. Mattola was his boss,

1508
01:22:49,479 --> 01:22:51,680
Speaker 3: but he wasn't really involved in what the day to

1509
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:53,680
Speaker 3: day of Columbia records. So I had this meeting with

1510
01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:55,720
Speaker 3: the guy, the right person to have a meeting with.

1511
01:22:56,160 --> 01:23:01,320
Speaker 3: I have this meeting. I have a heartfelt, emotional He's

1512
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:06,559
Speaker 3: sitting there holding a baseball bat through the meeting because he, yeah,

1513
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:08,880
Speaker 3: he saw himself as kind of like tough. So he's

1514
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:11,400
Speaker 3: sitting there holding this baseball bat. I'm talking twenty minutes,

1515
01:23:11,439 --> 01:23:15,200
Speaker 3: twenty five minutes. I'm crying at the end and telling

1516
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:17,519
Speaker 3: them finally that if we can't work this stuff out,

1517
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:19,200
Speaker 3: we can't get to the bottom of this. I gotta leave.

1518
01:23:19,240 --> 01:23:21,360
Speaker 3: And I said, you know, I never signed a contract.

1519
01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:23,960
Speaker 3: Russell signed the contract. I never signed anything. So I'm

1520
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:27,120
Speaker 3: gonna have to leave. And he said, wait, wait a minute,

1521
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:30,080
Speaker 3: wait a minute, what did you just say. And I said,

1522
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:33,400
Speaker 3: I said I never Yeah, I said I never signed

1523
01:23:33,400 --> 01:23:37,519
Speaker 3: a contract. You know, only Russell signed. And he said, okay,

1524
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:39,400
Speaker 3: wait a minute. You're going to have to start back

1525
01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:42,080
Speaker 3: at the beginning because I wasn't listening to anything. You

1526
01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:42,960
Speaker 3: were saying.

1527
01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:45,640
Speaker 1: That sound effect with me.

1528
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:49,840
Speaker 3: This is this is really, this is real.

1529
01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:56,759
Speaker 1: So how long until death? Americans started right away?

1530
01:23:56,800 --> 01:23:59,960
Speaker 3: Because when I left Fjam I had already started, like

1531
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:05,200
Speaker 3: Slayer was signed to death Jam originally, Danzig was signed

1532
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:09,600
Speaker 3: to deaf Jam originally, and Dice. I can't remember if

1533
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:12,120
Speaker 3: Dice was if I had already signed Dice or not.

1534
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:15,679
Speaker 3: When I remember going out to lunch with Russell and saying,

1535
01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:17,160
Speaker 3: you know, this isn't going to work. I don't the

1536
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:22,759
Speaker 3: relationship with Columbia's bad. And oh so what that meeting

1537
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:24,599
Speaker 3: that I told you about, the start at the beginning

1538
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:32,000
Speaker 3: again meeting? When that meeting, after that meeting, I told Russell,

1539
01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:34,439
Speaker 3: you know this is not good. We can't do this anymore.

1540
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:38,320
Speaker 3: And the way that Colombia ended up fixing it was

1541
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:41,080
Speaker 3: to write a big check to death Jam without dealing

1542
01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:44,559
Speaker 3: with any of the problems. It was just a check

1543
01:24:45,880 --> 01:24:47,640
Speaker 3: and Russell was cool with that, and I was not

1544
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:50,080
Speaker 3: cool with that. So that was sort of the you

1545
01:24:50,120 --> 01:24:52,439
Speaker 3: know what, I don't think we can do this anymore,

1546
01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:54,160
Speaker 3: Like this doesn't feel right. And I said to him,

1547
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:57,120
Speaker 3: I said, do you want to leave the company? And

1548
01:24:57,160 --> 01:24:58,920
Speaker 3: he said I don't want to leave and I said, okay,

1549
01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:01,439
Speaker 3: I guess I'll have to leave. And it was just

1550
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:01,880
Speaker 3: like that.

1551
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:08,559
Speaker 2: It wasn't I thought that, Yeah, yikes, because you left

1552
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 2: before well you left after the Beasties left, correct.

1553
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:15,720
Speaker 3: Well left after the Beasties left. Yeah, yeah, how did

1554
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:16,519
Speaker 3: did you?

1555
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:19,600
Speaker 4: And like uh at Rock or any of them, did

1556
01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:23,360
Speaker 4: y'all have have conversations about why you both left or where?

1557
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:23,960
Speaker 1: Interesting?

1558
01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:29,040
Speaker 3: Interestingly, interestingly, we have never really discussed it, and it's

1559
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:31,439
Speaker 3: definitely an elephant in the room that would be good

1560
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:34,360
Speaker 3: to discuss, and we just never did. But I'm sure

1561
01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:38,400
Speaker 3: it'll happen. It may happen next week, like it'll happen.

1562
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:40,920
Speaker 1: What were your thoughts on Paul's boutique?

1563
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:43,880
Speaker 3: Loved it, thought it was the I remember listening to

1564
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:46,799
Speaker 3: it at the Mandrian Hotel, me and Chuck d together.

1565
01:25:46,920 --> 01:25:49,639
Speaker 3: We were We were there because I think Public Enemy

1566
01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:51,680
Speaker 3: was going to appear somewhere in California. I don't know

1567
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:54,120
Speaker 3: whether it was a club date or a TV show,

1568
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:57,520
Speaker 3: but we're at the Mandre on we got an advance.

1569
01:25:58,000 --> 01:25:59,320
Speaker 3: I don't even know if it was in advance. It

1570
01:25:59,400 --> 01:26:01,360
Speaker 3: might have just been like from the studio like they

1571
01:26:01,400 --> 01:26:04,280
Speaker 3: had just finished it and me and Chuck listened to

1572
01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:06,559
Speaker 3: it and we both thought, oh my god, this is

1573
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:08,519
Speaker 3: the greatest thing we've ever heard. This is the future

1574
01:26:08,600 --> 01:26:11,559
Speaker 3: hip hop like this is. It doesn't get better than this,

1575
01:26:11,960 --> 01:26:15,559
Speaker 3: and we were shocked that it was not as well

1576
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:17,599
Speaker 3: received as we thought it deserved to be.

1577
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:20,880
Speaker 2: Thing that I remembered the most, at least your first

1578
01:26:20,960 --> 01:26:24,320
Speaker 2: year of Death American, was all the press that you

1579
01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:28,439
Speaker 2: got as far as the Ghetto Boys were concerned. How

1580
01:26:28,479 --> 01:26:32,160
Speaker 2: did they come, how did they come across your radar?

1581
01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:37,800
Speaker 2: And what was it about them that drew each to them?

1582
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:44,720
Speaker 2: And all the ensuing controversy that came with them, Like.

1583
01:26:44,720 --> 01:26:49,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had never heard like NWA was already happening.

1584
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:52,280
Speaker 3: Well maybe just the Easy E album. I don't know

1585
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:54,040
Speaker 3: if there was an NWA album yet. There was an

1586
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:57,439
Speaker 3: Easy E album for sure, and I loved Easy E.

1587
01:26:57,920 --> 01:27:02,679
Speaker 3: And then I heard the Ghetto Boys and I felt like, oh,

1588
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:09,439
Speaker 3: like where NWA was gangster, this is like hard in

1589
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:15,919
Speaker 3: that way, but more like more unhinged, more like horror

1590
01:27:17,720 --> 01:27:21,160
Speaker 3: like like violent but not violent like a bad drug

1591
01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:25,320
Speaker 3: deal gone wrong, like violent like a horror movie, you know,

1592
01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:31,479
Speaker 3: like dismemberment crazy. And I just liked the how extreme

1593
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:34,400
Speaker 3: it was. It spoke to me right away, and I

1594
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:39,200
Speaker 3: thought that the album didn't sound It didn't sound as

1595
01:27:39,240 --> 01:27:42,040
Speaker 3: good as it could have. So I remixed the album.

1596
01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:45,040
Speaker 3: I didn't add anything to it, or I just basically

1597
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:48,920
Speaker 3: remixed the album and changed the cover and changed the

1598
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:53,639
Speaker 3: name because they were called the Ghetto Boys g hgg yeah,

1599
01:27:53,680 --> 01:27:56,919
Speaker 3: and I thought, you know it, it sounds too ordinary,

1600
01:27:57,680 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 3: like they could be the Ghetto Boys, which would be

1601
01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:02,559
Speaker 3: the get Old Boys, just because it I don't know,

1602
01:28:02,560 --> 01:28:05,920
Speaker 3: I just thought it was more interesting, would look better

1603
01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:07,000
Speaker 3: on T shirts as well.

1604
01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:13,040
Speaker 1: Okay, so, how how much of I'm in now?

1605
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 2: It's like, especially in the environment that we're in right now,

1606
01:28:18,680 --> 01:28:26,120
Speaker 2: as far as like uh, right wing Republican Christian news

1607
01:28:26,160 --> 01:28:28,479
Speaker 2: talking points and those things like you know, now it's

1608
01:28:28,479 --> 01:28:32,040
Speaker 2: sort of like you collectively roll your eyes or that,

1609
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:35,559
Speaker 2: you know, like that side of the fence is lying.

1610
01:28:36,160 --> 01:28:41,600
Speaker 2: But back in nineteen eighty nine, ninety like, they it

1611
01:28:42,040 --> 01:28:45,880
Speaker 2: seemed like real threats. And I remember I knew the

1612
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:49,479
Speaker 2: Ghetto Boys because one Chuck Jees chucked Thees shouted them

1613
01:28:49,479 --> 01:28:53,439
Speaker 2: out on fear of a Black Panet Planet album. But

1614
01:28:54,720 --> 01:29:01,000
Speaker 2: all the controversy of Scarface's lyrics being faling points for

1615
01:29:01,240 --> 01:29:06,519
Speaker 2: everybody running for Senate, any Republican running for Senate or

1616
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:10,200
Speaker 2: the House using this thing like to this was this

1617
01:29:10,280 --> 01:29:13,480
Speaker 2: manner from heaven like for you is, I had controversy

1618
01:29:13,640 --> 01:29:16,479
Speaker 2: and bad news, like, yes, this is what I want

1619
01:29:16,520 --> 01:29:18,479
Speaker 2: to be your parents' worst nightmare.

1620
01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:20,840
Speaker 3: This is the first TI I'm ever hearing of that

1621
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:21,519
Speaker 3: being the case.

1622
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:26,519
Speaker 1: What you mean, Ted White? Ted White? I think who

1623
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:28,439
Speaker 1: ran Billboard? Oh man?

1624
01:29:28,479 --> 01:29:32,800
Speaker 2: He wrote like paragraphs and dissertation of mind of all

1625
01:29:33,320 --> 01:29:36,760
Speaker 2: I would have never ever like the surefireway to get

1626
01:29:36,840 --> 01:29:40,000
Speaker 2: a seventeen eighteen year old to buy the ship. It's

1627
01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:43,679
Speaker 2: because Ted White could not a billboard, could not stop

1628
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:48,800
Speaker 2: writing about how violent Scarface's mind of a lunatic was

1629
01:29:49,320 --> 01:29:52,559
Speaker 2: and this needs to be banned and shit. I was like, word,

1630
01:29:52,600 --> 01:29:55,880
Speaker 2: I'm gonna buy this shit. Yeah, Lama parents hated it

1631
01:29:55,960 --> 01:29:56,599
Speaker 2: must be good.

1632
01:29:56,800 --> 01:29:59,519
Speaker 3: Yeah. I always like crazy shit, you know, I like

1633
01:30:00,280 --> 01:30:05,000
Speaker 3: edgy crazy shit. It's interesting to me. It's fun.

1634
01:30:06,479 --> 01:30:11,280
Speaker 2: But you do realize like being parents' worst nightmare.

1635
01:30:11,160 --> 01:30:14,000
Speaker 1: Is also like that's great marketing.

1636
01:30:14,320 --> 01:30:18,840
Speaker 2: That's a regged execs candy like that. That's so that

1637
01:30:18,920 --> 01:30:20,080
Speaker 2: never excited you at all.

1638
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:25,080
Speaker 3: No, I never never thought about it because usually I

1639
01:30:25,080 --> 01:30:27,000
Speaker 3: would have to get the calls more like the record

1640
01:30:27,040 --> 01:30:28,760
Speaker 3: company not wanting to put it out, you know, that's

1641
01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:32,080
Speaker 3: what I had to deal with, Like Slayer, Columbia Records

1642
01:30:32,080 --> 01:30:34,120
Speaker 3: refused to put out that Slayer record, So then I

1643
01:30:34,160 --> 01:30:36,639
Speaker 3: had to find a new way to release it, even

1644
01:30:36,640 --> 01:30:38,320
Speaker 3: though the first one was on Deaf Jam, but it

1645
01:30:38,360 --> 01:30:42,040
Speaker 3: wasn't through Columbia because they refused to release it. Then

1646
01:30:42,240 --> 01:30:44,719
Speaker 3: I made a deal with Geffen Records, which is where

1647
01:30:44,760 --> 01:30:47,720
Speaker 3: that went. And then in my deal with Geffen, I

1648
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:50,479
Speaker 3: had to have complete creative control where they could never

1649
01:30:50,520 --> 01:30:52,599
Speaker 3: come to me and say they're not going to put

1650
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:55,920
Speaker 3: something out. And then when it came to Andrew Dice

1651
01:30:55,960 --> 01:30:58,120
Speaker 3: Clay or the Ghetto Boys, You're like, well, we're not

1652
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:00,519
Speaker 3: going to put it out. It's like the whole reason

1653
01:31:00,640 --> 01:31:03,000
Speaker 3: I'm at your company is because I need a safe

1654
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:05,200
Speaker 3: place to put out crazy shit. That's why I'm here.

1655
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:09,479
Speaker 3: This is what I do. And you'll see when you

1656
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:13,200
Speaker 3: look back on it in time, it'll be the right decision.

1657
01:31:13,439 --> 01:31:17,200
Speaker 3: It'll be like you're too you're too close to the

1658
01:31:17,320 --> 01:31:21,320
Speaker 3: story now. But if you look back in history, important

1659
01:31:21,360 --> 01:31:25,519
Speaker 3: things often stick out like saw thumbs in their day

1660
01:31:25,720 --> 01:31:31,599
Speaker 3: and are hated or vilified, or they burned Beatles albums.

1661
01:31:31,640 --> 01:31:35,280
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, man, Elvis was the you know the Devil.

1662
01:31:36,080 --> 01:31:39,439
Speaker 2: What was it about the Black Crows that excited you

1663
01:31:39,640 --> 01:31:41,760
Speaker 2: to sign them to the label? Did you sign all

1664
01:31:41,800 --> 01:31:43,760
Speaker 2: the acts that were at least on the first run

1665
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:46,640
Speaker 2: of Deaf Americans to the label or was it like,

1666
01:31:46,640 --> 01:31:48,000
Speaker 2: did you have a full staff and.

1667
01:31:48,600 --> 01:31:50,720
Speaker 3: You know didn't. I didn't have a full staff. But

1668
01:31:50,760 --> 01:31:52,519
Speaker 3: there was my friend who I went to school with

1669
01:31:52,640 --> 01:31:57,400
Speaker 3: named George Treculius, who who's been called out on a

1670
01:31:57,439 --> 01:31:58,160
Speaker 3: Beastie record.

1671
01:31:58,160 --> 01:32:01,200
Speaker 2: Maybe well, he's also been my boss the few movies

1672
01:32:01,240 --> 01:32:01,919
Speaker 2: that I scored.

1673
01:32:02,320 --> 01:32:02,719
Speaker 1: George.

1674
01:32:03,000 --> 01:32:07,160
Speaker 2: If you're clearing music in movies, Georgia Koliac, is that

1675
01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:08,680
Speaker 2: that's your guy that you work with?

1676
01:32:08,720 --> 01:32:15,160
Speaker 3: Okay, great? So George was he was an inter. It's funny.

1677
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:18,400
Speaker 3: I was an intern at Deaf Jam when I owned

1678
01:32:18,400 --> 01:32:21,599
Speaker 3: Deaf Jam at NYU. And the reason I was an

1679
01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:24,479
Speaker 3: intern was because then I got school credit for working

1680
01:32:24,479 --> 01:32:30,920
Speaker 3: at Deaf Jam. George was. George was my intern at

1681
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:34,920
Speaker 3: Deaf Jam where he got credit in the dorm, and

1682
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:36,759
Speaker 3: then there was a time when he was my roommate

1683
01:32:36,840 --> 01:32:42,519
Speaker 3: in the dorm if I remember correctly. And George he

1684
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:46,080
Speaker 3: found the Black Crows and that was his both his

1685
01:32:46,240 --> 01:32:48,920
Speaker 3: signing and his production. That was his vision and the

1686
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:52,320
Speaker 3: Jayhawks as well. He signed the Jayhawks and never.

1687
01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:53,840
Speaker 1: Told me that. Wow, I didn't know that.

1688
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:59,439
Speaker 2: Hey, wait all these old Deaf jam questions are coming

1689
01:32:59,479 --> 01:33:04,960
Speaker 2: back to me now. The the storyline to crust groof

1690
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:11,479
Speaker 2: how much of that was actual life. I'm trying to

1691
01:33:11,479 --> 01:33:15,840
Speaker 2: get to the kind of uncut Jim's robbing Peter to

1692
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:20,639
Speaker 2: pay Paul narrative of like did you guys ever have

1693
01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:24,479
Speaker 2: Like that's the storyline of having to borrow money to

1694
01:33:24,680 --> 01:33:28,160
Speaker 2: press up twelve inches or to keep up with demand.

1695
01:33:28,240 --> 01:33:31,320
Speaker 3: That's holly Hollywood fakery. That's none of that.

1696
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:37,000
Speaker 1: Okay, just check it, just check it. Yeah.

1697
01:33:37,040 --> 01:33:41,280
Speaker 2: So outside of Deaf American recordings, can you talk about

1698
01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:46,080
Speaker 2: your your your work with with Johnny Cash and how

1699
01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:50,240
Speaker 2: you got him back to his glory point, because I mean,

1700
01:33:50,240 --> 01:33:53,519
Speaker 2: I would imagine before you two worked together he was

1701
01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:59,080
Speaker 2: sort of waning in the creative department at least, like

1702
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:01,400
Speaker 2: with the last four records that he worked on with you.

1703
01:34:01,600 --> 01:34:05,400
Speaker 2: That was like probably one of the best storied comebacks

1704
01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:07,599
Speaker 2: in a music career.

1705
01:34:07,640 --> 01:34:13,560
Speaker 1: What was it like working with him?

1706
01:34:13,880 --> 01:34:16,040
Speaker 3: Coolest thing, coolest thing that ever happened in my life.

1707
01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:23,240
Speaker 3: He was a beautiful brilliant, humble, interesting, quiet guy who

1708
01:34:23,800 --> 01:34:29,240
Speaker 3: studied history. He had a tremendous amount of wisdom that

1709
01:34:29,280 --> 01:34:32,880
Speaker 3: he didn't offer unless you drew him out. He was

1710
01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:37,560
Speaker 3: pretty reserved, but if you asked him about stuff, he

1711
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:39,080
Speaker 3: would tell you about it. And he knew a lot

1712
01:34:39,120 --> 01:34:41,519
Speaker 3: about a lot of things, and a tremendous amount about

1713
01:34:41,600 --> 01:34:45,759
Speaker 3: music and the history of country music and folk music.

1714
01:34:47,080 --> 01:34:49,200
Speaker 3: And I learned a tremendous amount being around him.

1715
01:34:49,600 --> 01:34:52,240
Speaker 2: Did you get a chance to personally know him? Like

1716
01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:56,360
Speaker 2: was he telling you stories of recording for Son and

1717
01:34:56,640 --> 01:35:00,280
Speaker 2: that whole million dollar session thing and everything you ever

1718
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:00,800
Speaker 2: wanted to know?

1719
01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:05,840
Speaker 3: And he would I got to know him personally well.

1720
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:07,320
Speaker 3: He would stay at my house when he came to

1721
01:35:07,439 --> 01:35:08,880
Speaker 3: LA I would say, at his house if I went

1722
01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:13,679
Speaker 3: to Nashville. I don't know how much we talked about

1723
01:35:13,720 --> 01:35:16,439
Speaker 3: old times unless there was a specific reason to her.

1724
01:35:16,479 --> 01:35:19,640
Speaker 3: If I had a particular interest, he would tell me

1725
01:35:19,680 --> 01:35:24,320
Speaker 3: stories about about Sam Phillips. Though, okay, oh wow, he

1726
01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:25,560
Speaker 3: loved Sam Phillips.

1727
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:28,559
Speaker 2: Which artist opens up to you the most as far

1728
01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:32,160
Speaker 2: as uh, I don't know if you have the same

1729
01:35:32,240 --> 01:35:37,320
Speaker 2: relationship with say A jay Z that you would with

1730
01:35:38,120 --> 01:35:41,320
Speaker 2: Anthony Keatis So I know there's different degrees of getting

1731
01:35:41,360 --> 01:35:44,479
Speaker 2: to know your clients as you're producing them. And I

1732
01:35:44,520 --> 01:35:47,400
Speaker 2: know there's an an artist producer trust that has to

1733
01:35:47,400 --> 01:35:49,800
Speaker 2: be established, but I know there's different degrees of that

1734
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:54,320
Speaker 2: of like which artists I mean, And this is not

1735
01:35:54,439 --> 01:35:57,799
Speaker 2: asking what's your favorite artist you've worked with, but who's

1736
01:35:58,080 --> 01:36:03,080
Speaker 2: who's the closest. Who do you know the best that

1737
01:36:03,160 --> 01:36:06,200
Speaker 2: you feel comfortable that you're just actual friends with, like

1738
01:36:06,400 --> 01:36:07,759
Speaker 2: really friends?

1739
01:36:08,080 --> 01:36:09,920
Speaker 1: Is that the mars? Well, the guys? Is it?

1740
01:36:11,000 --> 01:36:13,000
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm friends with a lot a lot

1741
01:36:13,080 --> 01:36:17,520
Speaker 3: of them. I'm just thinking if there are any unique standouts,

1742
01:36:18,040 --> 01:36:20,400
Speaker 3: I would say the people who I've made the most

1743
01:36:20,520 --> 01:36:25,240
Speaker 3: albums with. That plays a role, just because you're around

1744
01:36:25,320 --> 01:36:27,719
Speaker 3: them more, you know, it's just more hours together.

1745
01:36:30,240 --> 01:36:30,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1746
01:36:30,439 --> 01:36:32,120
Speaker 3: So, like I've been around the Chili Peppers a lot,

1747
01:36:32,560 --> 01:36:36,760
Speaker 3: so I probably know them better than somebody who I

1748
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:39,000
Speaker 3: did you know a couple of songs with like jay Z.

1749
01:36:39,479 --> 01:36:41,920
Speaker 3: But I feel very comfortable when I hang out with

1750
01:36:42,000 --> 01:36:45,280
Speaker 3: jay Z. I feel like pretty good friends feels good.

1751
01:36:45,520 --> 01:36:47,479
Speaker 5: I me just so close with Andrew Dice play though,

1752
01:36:47,479 --> 01:36:49,960
Speaker 5: I'm just saying I was.

1753
01:36:50,040 --> 01:36:52,040
Speaker 3: I was pretty close with Dice. I would go out

1754
01:36:52,040 --> 01:36:55,680
Speaker 3: every night to the comedy store after my session, and

1755
01:36:55,840 --> 01:36:58,559
Speaker 3: we would hang out in the kitchen of the comedy Storre.

1756
01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:00,400
Speaker 3: Chris Rock would be there often also.

1757
01:37:01,320 --> 01:37:04,880
Speaker 2: I mean with the Chili Peppers, how do you how

1758
01:37:04,880 --> 01:37:08,439
Speaker 2: do you see their growth as from where they were

1759
01:37:09,520 --> 01:37:16,160
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety one. I'd assume that Blood Sugar, Sex

1760
01:37:16,240 --> 01:37:18,280
Speaker 2: Magic was the first time you work with them.

1761
01:37:18,479 --> 01:37:19,479
Speaker 1: You didn't do Mother's Milk?

1762
01:37:19,520 --> 01:37:23,360
Speaker 3: Correct, No, No, although I like I thought Mother's Milk

1763
01:37:23,439 --> 01:37:27,639
Speaker 3: was their best record to date. That was the Mother's

1764
01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:30,200
Speaker 3: Milk was the record that made me excited to work

1765
01:37:30,240 --> 01:37:30,559
Speaker 3: with them.

1766
01:37:31,280 --> 01:37:35,480
Speaker 2: Okay, so how is it working with them and managing

1767
01:37:36,200 --> 01:37:40,040
Speaker 2: their you know whatever, you have to juggle to make

1768
01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:45,880
Speaker 2: it right as opposed to once they became more like

1769
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:48,240
Speaker 2: a comfortable shoe that you were familiar with.

1770
01:37:49,479 --> 01:37:52,800
Speaker 3: I'll say, I think it's the same. I don't think.

1771
01:37:54,479 --> 01:37:59,080
Speaker 3: I think the goal is always to treat people respectfully

1772
01:37:59,360 --> 01:38:03,960
Speaker 3: and honestly, and that happens regardless of how deep the

1773
01:38:04,040 --> 01:38:06,400
Speaker 3: relationship is. I don't I don't think that changes. It's

1774
01:38:06,439 --> 01:38:10,200
Speaker 3: pretty much the thing we're there to do looks the

1775
01:38:10,240 --> 01:38:14,160
Speaker 3: same either way. The only other thing that I'll say

1776
01:38:14,200 --> 01:38:16,240
Speaker 3: with the artists who I've made many records with another

1777
01:38:16,280 --> 01:38:18,240
Speaker 3: like System of a Down, I made all of their albums.

1778
01:38:19,680 --> 01:38:23,800
Speaker 3: With the bands that that I've worked with several times,

1779
01:38:24,320 --> 01:38:28,000
Speaker 3: there there gets to be a shorthand where like usually

1780
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:30,519
Speaker 3: the first record we make together, same Tom, Petty, all

1781
01:38:30,800 --> 01:38:33,280
Speaker 3: of them. The first record we make together takes the

1782
01:38:33,360 --> 01:38:35,120
Speaker 3: longest because we're like.

1783
01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:36,400
Speaker 1: Filling each other out.

1784
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:39,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, like figuring out a vocabulary of how we're going

1785
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:44,360
Speaker 3: to do it. But once that's established, it's much easier

1786
01:38:44,400 --> 01:38:48,200
Speaker 3: after that, but only only out of just that decoding,

1787
01:38:48,400 --> 01:38:49,960
Speaker 3: you know, decoding the system.

1788
01:38:51,439 --> 01:38:57,439
Speaker 2: Do you prefer piecemeal projects as far as getting you know,

1789
01:38:57,560 --> 01:38:59,559
Speaker 2: they just say, look, I just want one song like

1790
01:38:59,600 --> 01:39:03,320
Speaker 2: you did one song on Justin Timberlake's record for Future

1791
01:39:03,360 --> 01:39:10,160
Speaker 2: Sex Sounds. Damn that sounds sex Love Sounds, Future Sex

1792
01:39:10,200 --> 01:39:10,920
Speaker 2: Magic Sounds.

1793
01:39:10,920 --> 01:39:11,320
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1794
01:39:12,320 --> 01:39:16,880
Speaker 2: As opposed to doing an entire album, what would you

1795
01:39:16,960 --> 01:39:17,799
Speaker 2: what do you prefer?

1796
01:39:18,479 --> 01:39:21,799
Speaker 3: I really like making albums. I don't like doing songs

1797
01:39:22,160 --> 01:39:27,680
Speaker 3: because I think that the nature of the process to

1798
01:39:27,800 --> 01:39:31,240
Speaker 3: get to an album, to get to one song, or

1799
01:39:31,280 --> 01:39:34,759
Speaker 3: to get to an album could be the same amount

1800
01:39:34,840 --> 01:39:39,960
Speaker 3: of experimentation. Do you know what I'm saying? Like to

1801
01:39:41,040 --> 01:39:45,760
Speaker 3: find the voice. If you're working on one song, it

1802
01:39:45,760 --> 01:39:48,640
Speaker 3: takes just as long to figure out what that is.

1803
01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:52,680
Speaker 3: It may be longer because in a way, when you're

1804
01:39:52,680 --> 01:39:55,280
Speaker 3: working on one shot, you only got one shot and

1805
01:39:55,280 --> 01:39:57,559
Speaker 3: it's hard to even know the way in. But sometimes

1806
01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:01,880
Speaker 3: you'd be working on twenty songs and one song you're like, oh,

1807
01:40:02,800 --> 01:40:05,320
Speaker 3: that's the key to the whole thing. Now we know

1808
01:40:05,360 --> 01:40:06,479
Speaker 3: how it's all gonna work.

1809
01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:09,080
Speaker 2: Do you do you ever run into a situation in

1810
01:40:09,120 --> 01:40:15,240
Speaker 2: which where that trust isn't isn't there where you know

1811
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:18,000
Speaker 2: an artist is stubborn, they feel that you know, well,

1812
01:40:18,439 --> 01:40:22,559
Speaker 2: you know. I'm giving a hypothetical example. I don't know,

1813
01:40:22,720 --> 01:40:28,639
Speaker 2: like if you can tell Adele okay, sing this shit again,

1814
01:40:28,800 --> 01:40:32,680
Speaker 2: give me take nine and she'll knock it out the

1815
01:40:32,680 --> 01:40:36,479
Speaker 2: part as opposed to again convincing the beastie boys that

1816
01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:40,800
Speaker 2: fight for your right is the song and trust me

1817
01:40:40,880 --> 01:40:41,439
Speaker 2: on this one?

1818
01:40:42,120 --> 01:40:44,000
Speaker 1: Like how much trust me on this one?

1819
01:40:44,240 --> 01:40:44,759
Speaker 3: End? Quote?

1820
01:40:45,439 --> 01:40:49,040
Speaker 2: Do you have to go through in your post in

1821
01:40:49,120 --> 01:40:53,960
Speaker 2: your post def Jam post American Recordings career? It's like

1822
01:40:54,120 --> 01:40:56,920
Speaker 2: now in terms of like working with Neil Diamond or

1823
01:40:57,640 --> 01:40:58,720
Speaker 2: even James.

1824
01:40:58,400 --> 01:41:03,400
Speaker 3: Blake, Yeah, most never, almost never trust me on this one.

1825
01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:07,640
Speaker 3: I don't like that. The goal is to And I

1826
01:41:07,680 --> 01:41:10,200
Speaker 3: always say at the beginning of a project, it's like

1827
01:41:11,640 --> 01:41:15,240
Speaker 3: everyone has to like it. Everyone here has to love it.

1828
01:41:15,800 --> 01:41:18,639
Speaker 3: If I love it and you don't love it, we failed.

1829
01:41:19,040 --> 01:41:21,400
Speaker 3: If you love it and I don't love it, we failed.

1830
01:41:22,320 --> 01:41:25,240
Speaker 3: It just means we haven't gone far enough if we

1831
01:41:25,320 --> 01:41:26,080
Speaker 3: don't all love it.

1832
01:41:26,640 --> 01:41:28,800
Speaker 1: Have you ever had to walk away from a project.

1833
01:41:29,040 --> 01:41:30,760
Speaker 3: I've never had to walk away, but I've been walked

1834
01:41:30,760 --> 01:41:33,880
Speaker 3: away on I'm not a quitter. I don't I don't

1835
01:41:33,960 --> 01:41:37,840
Speaker 3: quit projects. But there have been there have been a

1836
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:40,920
Speaker 3: I can tell you. I can tell you about a couple. Okay,

1837
01:41:41,040 --> 01:41:44,799
Speaker 3: tell me we tried like I started an album with Crosby,

1838
01:41:44,840 --> 01:41:51,080
Speaker 3: Sills and Nash and ten years ago twelve okay twelve ten,

1839
01:41:51,160 --> 01:41:54,680
Speaker 3: about ten years ago, and it was a and there

1840
01:41:54,720 --> 01:41:56,599
Speaker 3: was a case of there being a lack of trust,

1841
01:41:56,640 --> 01:42:00,120
Speaker 3: but the lack of trust more had to do with themselves, well,

1842
01:42:00,280 --> 01:42:03,120
Speaker 3: like within the band. Like there's another interesting thing. When

1843
01:42:03,120 --> 01:42:05,559
Speaker 3: the Chili Peppers first asked me to produce them, it

1844
01:42:05,600 --> 01:42:08,280
Speaker 3: was before Blood Sugar Sex Magic. It was two albums

1845
01:42:08,280 --> 01:42:13,400
Speaker 3: before that. Sally Think it was Freaky Sily, the one,

1846
01:42:13,680 --> 01:42:15,839
Speaker 3: the one where it was all of the original members.

1847
01:42:15,960 --> 01:42:21,040
Speaker 3: And I remember a friend of mine, Yeah, whichever one

1848
01:42:21,160 --> 01:42:23,120
Speaker 3: had all of the original members, because a friend of

1849
01:42:23,120 --> 01:42:27,360
Speaker 3: mine said, who loved them, said, if you're ever going

1850
01:42:27,400 --> 01:42:29,120
Speaker 3: to produce the Chili Peppers, now is the time. It's

1851
01:42:29,160 --> 01:42:32,040
Speaker 3: all of the original members. This is the time. So

1852
01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:35,880
Speaker 3: me and Adam Harrovitz, beastie boy Adam Harvitz, went to

1853
01:42:36,000 --> 01:42:39,800
Speaker 3: a rehearsal in La on Sunset Boulevard of the Chili

1854
01:42:39,800 --> 01:42:42,880
Speaker 3: Peppers at that time, and there was just a weird,

1855
01:42:43,160 --> 01:42:46,240
Speaker 3: bad vibe in the room. Had nothing to do with us.

1856
01:42:46,320 --> 01:42:49,439
Speaker 3: It was just between them. It felt shady, and I

1857
01:42:49,439 --> 01:42:51,320
Speaker 3: didn't know what it was. Now I've come to learn

1858
01:42:51,400 --> 01:42:53,880
Speaker 3: later it was drugs, but I didn't I didn't know that.

1859
01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:55,479
Speaker 3: I didn't know what to look for at that time.

1860
01:42:55,880 --> 01:43:00,200
Speaker 3: I just felt like I think it was before he died. Yes,

1861
01:43:00,560 --> 01:43:03,360
Speaker 3: but there was a sense that these guys don't trust

1862
01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:06,360
Speaker 3: each other, like they didn't look at each other with

1863
01:43:06,520 --> 01:43:10,719
Speaker 3: like it just felt shaky. The whole thing felt shaky,

1864
01:43:11,360 --> 01:43:13,439
Speaker 3: and it felt like, I don't really think this is

1865
01:43:13,520 --> 01:43:15,200
Speaker 3: right for me to be around, Like I don't know

1866
01:43:15,200 --> 01:43:18,719
Speaker 3: how to do this. And another one was Joe Cocker.

1867
01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:22,720
Speaker 3: I went into the studio with Joe Cocker. I had

1868
01:43:22,760 --> 01:43:25,840
Speaker 3: it at the time that I produced a CDC, and

1869
01:43:25,880 --> 01:43:28,840
Speaker 3: I got Malcolm Young to play rhythm guitar on Joe

1870
01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:35,040
Speaker 3: Cocker record, Mike Campbell from the Heartbreakers, Benmont from the Heartbreakers.

1871
01:43:35,400 --> 01:43:37,080
Speaker 3: It was a really good band. It was really good

1872
01:43:37,080 --> 01:43:44,880
Speaker 3: session and Joe I wanted it to be a very raw, guttural,

1873
01:43:46,160 --> 01:43:53,280
Speaker 3: emotional album. And Joe saw himself more like Sting. He

1874
01:43:53,360 --> 01:43:54,960
Speaker 3: wanted it to be more like a Sting.

1875
01:43:54,720 --> 01:43:58,439
Speaker 1: Album, like Jazzy Sank, like.

1876
01:43:59,720 --> 01:44:04,160
Speaker 7: Very produced, adult, very adult.

1877
01:44:04,240 --> 01:44:08,240
Speaker 2: A man he wanted, he want, he wanted his Grammy moment,

1878
01:44:08,720 --> 01:44:10,400
Speaker 2: and and I.

1879
01:44:10,400 --> 01:44:13,400
Speaker 3: Just it wasn't. It wasn't so much as I don't

1880
01:44:13,439 --> 01:44:15,839
Speaker 3: feel like I quit. It was just like our visions

1881
01:44:15,880 --> 01:44:20,440
Speaker 3: were so different that it just no one was really interested.

1882
01:44:21,160 --> 01:44:23,360
Speaker 3: We didn't nobody wanted to make the same thing, so

1883
01:44:23,439 --> 01:44:26,759
Speaker 3: that one didn't happen. Yes, but considering how many albums

1884
01:44:26,800 --> 01:44:30,000
Speaker 3: I've made, I could count on one hand, less than

1885
01:44:30,040 --> 01:44:32,479
Speaker 3: one hand, how many times it has not worked out.

1886
01:44:33,120 --> 01:44:35,479
Speaker 1: You mentioned a c DC, and I'm gonna forget this question.

1887
01:44:36,720 --> 01:44:40,920
Speaker 2: Are are they do they have an iota or or

1888
01:44:41,240 --> 01:44:46,720
Speaker 2: are they even remotely aware of how much flick of

1889
01:44:46,760 --> 01:44:49,400
Speaker 2: the Switch has changed your life personally.

1890
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:52,599
Speaker 3: Other than what I told them, you know, I told

1891
01:44:52,680 --> 01:44:56,320
Speaker 3: I would tell them it's like their their music.

1892
01:44:57,200 --> 01:45:00,559
Speaker 1: They have no idea that that one note has. Oh

1893
01:45:01,400 --> 01:45:02,080
Speaker 1: is that where it's from?

1894
01:45:02,120 --> 01:45:03,400
Speaker 3: I don't even know. I just ran on.

1895
01:45:06,720 --> 01:45:09,479
Speaker 1: No, no, I knocked the bells and just the the

1896
01:45:09,680 --> 01:45:15,880
Speaker 1: trademark Rick Rubin is okay. I always wanted to know.

1897
01:45:16,320 --> 01:45:18,760
Speaker 3: I wouldn't even know. It's so funny. I wouldn't have

1898
01:45:18,840 --> 01:45:22,559
Speaker 3: even known that that's what it was. I just literally

1899
01:45:22,600 --> 01:45:23,920
Speaker 3: every time it's like, oh, I think it's on an

1900
01:45:23,920 --> 01:45:26,360
Speaker 3: ac DC record, and I just hunt through every track

1901
01:45:26,680 --> 01:45:28,120
Speaker 3: until I find something.

1902
01:45:28,360 --> 01:45:35,280
Speaker 2: Something like that. Man, Okay, so El's sophomore record.

1903
01:45:35,600 --> 01:45:40,320
Speaker 3: It's an interesting, unusual, unusual story. I don't believe I've

1904
01:45:40,320 --> 01:45:44,920
Speaker 3: ever told it publicly. At the time that I met Elle,

1905
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:50,360
Speaker 3: he was being raised. His mom was in the picture,

1906
01:45:50,479 --> 01:45:53,080
Speaker 3: but he's mainly being raised by his grandmother, and he

1907
01:45:53,120 --> 01:45:56,439
Speaker 3: didn't know his dad. And then we made our first

1908
01:45:56,439 --> 01:46:02,639
Speaker 3: album together, and then he became cool J probably seventeen

1909
01:46:02,680 --> 01:46:09,600
Speaker 3: at that time. And then ELL's dad appears, Oh wow,

1910
01:46:10,120 --> 01:46:14,280
Speaker 3: and he comes back, and Ell obviously wants his dad

1911
01:46:16,040 --> 01:46:22,760
Speaker 3: and his and Russell was managing Ell, and Ell, if

1912
01:46:22,840 --> 01:46:26,000
Speaker 3: I remember correctly fired Russell and hired Jimmy, his dad,

1913
01:46:26,040 --> 01:46:33,599
Speaker 3: to be his manager, and I just I just felt

1914
01:46:33,640 --> 01:46:36,879
Speaker 3: like it was a bad vibe. Like I never discussed

1915
01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:39,840
Speaker 3: it with L. We never talked about it. It just

1916
01:46:39,920 --> 01:46:45,920
Speaker 3: felt like something's going on here that's dark, and this

1917
01:46:46,080 --> 01:46:48,519
Speaker 3: is not energy for me to be around. This is

1918
01:46:49,320 --> 01:46:52,960
Speaker 3: good is not going to come from this situation, and

1919
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:55,200
Speaker 3: I just sort of bowed out and then it ended

1920
01:46:55,240 --> 01:47:00,080
Speaker 3: up it ended up turning bad sometime. I don't know

1921
01:47:00,160 --> 01:47:02,439
Speaker 3: how much longer, but I think there ended up being

1922
01:47:02,439 --> 01:47:04,479
Speaker 3: problems between Ell and his dad after that. But it

1923
01:47:05,000 --> 01:47:10,160
Speaker 3: just it just felt too shady, felt too I didn't

1924
01:47:10,240 --> 01:47:12,479
Speaker 3: like that they were not nice to Russell when Russell

1925
01:47:12,560 --> 01:47:15,360
Speaker 3: really cared about L, like firing a guy who was

1926
01:47:15,400 --> 01:47:18,400
Speaker 3: really working for you. This new guy coming in the

1927
01:47:18,439 --> 01:47:21,720
Speaker 3: scene kind of under questionable. Yes he was his dad,

1928
01:47:21,800 --> 01:47:24,000
Speaker 3: but still why wasn't he his dad before? He was

1929
01:47:24,040 --> 01:47:27,120
Speaker 3: all cool, just right. It was just it just felt

1930
01:47:27,280 --> 01:47:29,240
Speaker 3: very weird.

1931
01:47:30,439 --> 01:47:35,040
Speaker 1: Can you explain to me what exactly was your role

1932
01:47:36,760 --> 01:47:37,920
Speaker 1: in Jesus.

1933
01:47:39,120 --> 01:47:43,920
Speaker 2: And in the life of Pablo, because it just to

1934
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:47,120
Speaker 2: see the credits on the albums I'm just assuming that

1935
01:47:47,360 --> 01:47:53,200
Speaker 2: you're in a room with over twelve to twenty chefs

1936
01:47:54,320 --> 01:47:58,640
Speaker 2: and everyone's just throwing ideas in well, just based on

1937
01:47:58,760 --> 01:48:01,519
Speaker 2: looking at the album credits, like.

1938
01:48:01,640 --> 01:48:06,679
Speaker 3: Exactly, it's not not exactly how it worked. Kanye built

1939
01:48:06,760 --> 01:48:11,840
Speaker 3: up the material over years for the for that what

1940
01:48:12,040 --> 01:48:13,360
Speaker 3: ended up being uses.

1941
01:48:14,720 --> 01:48:15,080
Speaker 1: Okay.

1942
01:48:16,080 --> 01:48:19,519
Speaker 3: When he first came he called me. He called me

1943
01:48:19,560 --> 01:48:20,880
Speaker 3: and said, hey, I want to come over and play

1944
01:48:20,880 --> 01:48:24,599
Speaker 3: you my new album. Okay, It's like great. He came

1945
01:48:24,640 --> 01:48:27,920
Speaker 3: over and we listened to three hours of music yo

1946
01:48:29,040 --> 01:48:35,479
Speaker 3: with almost no vocals, like just yes, and it's like wow, cool,

1947
01:48:35,520 --> 01:48:37,519
Speaker 3: it's like off to a good start. What do you know?

1948
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:40,559
Speaker 3: What are you thinking you're going to you know, make

1949
01:48:40,760 --> 01:48:42,600
Speaker 3: you think you'll finish next year or something. He's like,

1950
01:48:43,160 --> 01:48:49,720
Speaker 3: it's coming out in three weeks, where I said what

1951
01:48:50,160 --> 01:48:51,840
Speaker 3: it's like it made no sense. And then and I

1952
01:48:51,840 --> 01:48:53,439
Speaker 3: played on Black Sabbath. I said, you know, I have

1953
01:48:53,520 --> 01:48:57,400
Speaker 3: this Black Sabbath album that's done and mastered and that's

1954
01:48:57,439 --> 01:48:59,920
Speaker 3: not coming out in three weeks. That's coming out later

1955
01:49:00,040 --> 01:49:03,840
Speaker 3: than that. It's like this, this is what it sounds

1956
01:49:03,880 --> 01:49:09,880
Speaker 3: like when it's coming out in three weeks. And he said,

1957
01:49:10,600 --> 01:49:12,320
Speaker 3: I want you to help me finish it. I want

1958
01:49:12,320 --> 01:49:17,720
Speaker 3: it to be like, let's finish it. And it was

1959
01:49:17,920 --> 01:49:21,280
Speaker 3: a terrifying experience because I'd never worked on anything like that.

1960
01:49:21,320 --> 01:49:23,439
Speaker 3: I don't like to work on a deadline ever. Anyway,

1961
01:49:23,560 --> 01:49:26,240
Speaker 3: it's like I always feel like it. It sort of

1962
01:49:26,280 --> 01:49:29,719
Speaker 3: happens as it's supposed to happen. Some things happened very quickly,

1963
01:49:29,760 --> 01:49:32,679
Speaker 3: some things take a long time. ELL's first album probably

1964
01:49:32,680 --> 01:49:36,320
Speaker 3: took less than a month to record. And when I

1965
01:49:36,320 --> 01:49:40,479
Speaker 3: say less than a month, meaning a song a day

1966
01:49:40,520 --> 01:49:44,080
Speaker 3: that's on the album over the course of a month,

1967
01:49:44,760 --> 01:49:46,240
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying. Not in the studio every

1968
01:49:46,280 --> 01:49:49,200
Speaker 3: day for a month, like I got a new track,

1969
01:49:49,280 --> 01:49:54,400
Speaker 3: let's go in on Thursday. That happening totally a month.

1970
01:49:54,560 --> 01:49:59,400
Speaker 3: Whereas the First beast With the First Beasties album was

1971
01:49:59,520 --> 01:50:03,360
Speaker 3: probably two years in the making, and it just took

1972
01:50:03,400 --> 01:50:06,280
Speaker 3: that long. It just took not every day again, it

1973
01:50:06,320 --> 01:50:09,639
Speaker 3: was like, I gotcha. It just takes a long time

1974
01:50:09,720 --> 01:50:12,000
Speaker 3: because the you're waiting for the ideas to come. It's

1975
01:50:12,040 --> 01:50:14,920
Speaker 3: like it's not pre written, we're writing it now.

1976
01:50:15,160 --> 01:50:15,400
Speaker 1: Now.

1977
01:50:15,720 --> 01:50:17,800
Speaker 3: Most of the artists I work with, we don't go

1978
01:50:17,840 --> 01:50:21,000
Speaker 3: into the studio until it's mostly all written, so it's

1979
01:50:21,040 --> 01:50:23,519
Speaker 3: a different it's a different experience, and that could happen

1980
01:50:23,840 --> 01:50:24,880
Speaker 3: in a much shorter time.

1981
01:50:25,200 --> 01:50:27,280
Speaker 6: Wait, so did Kanye already have his verses written but

1982
01:50:27,360 --> 01:50:29,800
Speaker 6: they just weren't on on the tracks?

1983
01:50:30,320 --> 01:50:34,439
Speaker 3: No? No, Well, it wasn't even clear what the songs

1984
01:50:34,439 --> 01:50:35,920
Speaker 3: were going to sound like or what was going to

1985
01:50:35,960 --> 01:50:39,960
Speaker 3: be on the album. It was a very wide range

1986
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:42,439
Speaker 3: of songs and it was super cool. It was cool.

1987
01:50:42,560 --> 01:50:45,320
Speaker 3: I've come to learn that's the way he works. This

1988
01:50:45,439 --> 01:50:48,400
Speaker 3: was I never worked like that before, so it was

1989
01:50:48,479 --> 01:50:51,360
Speaker 3: unusual to me. To him, it was standard in the past.

1990
01:50:51,400 --> 01:50:53,360
Speaker 3: When I've said he wrote you know, half of the

1991
01:50:53,439 --> 01:50:57,040
Speaker 3: lyrics on the last two days, that like I'm saying

1992
01:50:57,040 --> 01:51:00,000
Speaker 3: he doesn't care about it. That's not at all the case.

1993
01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:05,120
Speaker 3: It's his process is living with it. He's singing to

1994
01:51:05,240 --> 01:51:09,439
Speaker 3: himself internally all the time, and he doesn't like to commit.

1995
01:51:09,880 --> 01:51:15,080
Speaker 3: He doesn't commit it down until it's going to stay

1996
01:51:15,400 --> 01:51:19,680
Speaker 3: because otherwise it's going to change. So he doesn't like

1997
01:51:19,720 --> 01:51:21,479
Speaker 3: if he would have done if he would have played

1998
01:51:21,479 --> 01:51:23,560
Speaker 3: me songs with vocals done, the album already would have

1999
01:51:23,600 --> 01:51:25,679
Speaker 3: been out right in the way he works.

2000
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:31,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say, I remember whatever day

2001
01:51:31,960 --> 01:51:37,280
Speaker 2: that Yeesues came out, I remember texting you maybe like

2002
01:51:37,439 --> 01:51:42,280
Speaker 2: three days before, just on some okay, is it going

2003
01:51:42,360 --> 01:51:45,840
Speaker 2: to happen or not? Because I think they had a

2004
01:51:45,880 --> 01:51:48,880
Speaker 2: pushback date or whatever. There was like a day that

2005
01:51:48,880 --> 01:51:51,320
Speaker 2: I was supposed to come out and it didn't, and

2006
01:51:51,360 --> 01:51:55,280
Speaker 2: you were like, we're literally in the middle of trying to.

2007
01:51:55,200 --> 01:51:56,320
Speaker 1: Wrap up right now.

2008
01:51:57,080 --> 01:51:59,640
Speaker 2: And I was like, wait a minute, if you're in

2009
01:51:59,680 --> 01:52:02,400
Speaker 2: the middle trapping like doing it right now, then is

2010
01:52:02,439 --> 01:52:05,120
Speaker 2: the record pressed up? And like I'm thinking in terms

2011
01:52:05,160 --> 01:52:06,840
Speaker 2: of the old system where you had to turn it

2012
01:52:06,880 --> 01:52:10,960
Speaker 2: in three months ahead of time, factory all those things,

2013
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:14,639
Speaker 2: and literally, well even with Pablo, you guys were still

2014
01:52:14,800 --> 01:52:18,800
Speaker 2: editing and changing it. And next thing I knew I

2015
01:52:18,800 --> 01:52:21,080
Speaker 2: had three different versions of the Pablo record because he

2016
01:52:21,240 --> 01:52:22,599
Speaker 2: just kept changing over again.

2017
01:52:23,439 --> 01:52:26,240
Speaker 3: I remember when we finished Yesus and it came out

2018
01:52:26,400 --> 01:52:29,920
Speaker 3: about a week later. A week or two later, kind

2019
01:52:29,920 --> 01:52:33,080
Speaker 3: of came to the studio in Malibu and just we

2020
01:52:33,200 --> 01:52:34,840
Speaker 3: just started talking about what do you think's next, Like

2021
01:52:34,880 --> 01:52:36,360
Speaker 3: what do you think the next one's going to be like?

2022
01:52:36,479 --> 01:52:41,439
Speaker 3: And he was kind of excited to at least start

2023
01:52:42,080 --> 01:52:44,960
Speaker 3: marching in a direction, and we just started brainstorming and

2024
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:47,920
Speaker 3: we had an idea then that actually ended up it

2025
01:52:48,040 --> 01:52:51,760
Speaker 3: ended up not being so much what not so much

2026
01:52:51,760 --> 01:52:54,720
Speaker 3: what Pablo's like, but it has come around to that eventually.

2027
01:52:55,800 --> 01:52:59,720
Speaker 3: But the but after we had a similar conversation the end.

2028
01:52:59,720 --> 01:53:03,160
Speaker 3: When Pablo got delivered, I was in Hawaii and I

2029
01:53:03,200 --> 01:53:06,000
Speaker 3: remember getting you know, new versions of the album every

2030
01:53:06,080 --> 01:53:08,360
Speaker 3: day to listen to and give my notes. And I

2031
01:53:08,400 --> 01:53:11,040
Speaker 3: was giving notes every day. It's like I just listened.

2032
01:53:11,040 --> 01:53:14,080
Speaker 3: I would drive up and down the road here in

2033
01:53:14,200 --> 01:53:17,040
Speaker 3: Kawhi and listen and like, Okay, this is you know,

2034
01:53:17,120 --> 01:53:19,559
Speaker 3: this is working. Let's remix this, Let's try this, and

2035
01:53:19,600 --> 01:53:21,519
Speaker 3: whatever notes, you know, anything that I could add to

2036
01:53:21,680 --> 01:53:27,280
Speaker 3: help make it better. And then I talked to Kanye again,

2037
01:53:27,439 --> 01:53:29,519
Speaker 3: like it was now ritual a couple of weeks after

2038
01:53:29,560 --> 01:53:32,760
Speaker 3: the record comes out and and I say, oh, so

2039
01:53:32,800 --> 01:53:34,200
Speaker 3: what are you thinking about? What are you what are

2040
01:53:34,200 --> 01:53:36,360
Speaker 3: you working on? He's like, I'm working on this mix

2041
01:53:36,439 --> 01:53:39,639
Speaker 3: on so and so. It's one of the songs on Pablo.

2042
01:53:39,720 --> 01:53:44,880
Speaker 3: It's like, that's out. What are you talking about. He's like, well, yeah,

2043
01:53:44,880 --> 01:53:49,000
Speaker 3: it's out, but I'm not done yet, like really, like

2044
01:53:49,320 --> 01:53:52,519
Speaker 3: I it just like blew my mind. The conversation blew

2045
01:53:52,600 --> 01:53:57,160
Speaker 3: my mind because up until well yeah, in my over

2046
01:53:57,160 --> 01:54:01,240
Speaker 3: the course of my life. Once it came out, that

2047
01:54:01,400 --> 01:54:01,680
Speaker 3: was it.

2048
01:54:02,200 --> 01:54:02,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2049
01:54:02,680 --> 01:54:07,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, So to just that his ability to see passworal

2050
01:54:07,760 --> 01:54:09,559
Speaker 3: just because that's the way it always is. That means

2051
01:54:09,600 --> 01:54:11,400
Speaker 3: the way it is. No, it's like, if I want

2052
01:54:11,400 --> 01:54:12,920
Speaker 3: to change it, I'll change it, and I'll change as

2053
01:54:12,960 --> 01:54:16,240
Speaker 3: many times as I want. It's like, it's incredible, blew

2054
01:54:16,280 --> 01:54:18,000
Speaker 3: my mind. Loved it.

2055
01:54:18,600 --> 01:54:25,400
Speaker 2: Wow to me hearing hearing the Yesus record, and you know,

2056
01:54:25,400 --> 01:54:28,000
Speaker 2: I admit that I'd consume most of my music now

2057
01:54:28,120 --> 01:54:32,800
Speaker 2: via my iPhone and my computer, not in the same

2058
01:54:32,840 --> 01:54:34,760
Speaker 2: way that I would have, you know, twenty years ago,

2059
01:54:34,840 --> 01:54:37,760
Speaker 2: like put it in the stereoptics and yeah, that sort

2060
01:54:37,800 --> 01:54:41,200
Speaker 2: of thing. So first I was, I was the mix

2061
01:54:41,320 --> 01:54:45,240
Speaker 2: was just really harsh to me. And then once I

2062
01:54:45,280 --> 01:54:50,000
Speaker 2: heard it in Madison Square Garden with no drums, I mean,

2063
01:54:50,080 --> 01:54:52,560
Speaker 2: the thing was like, drums is almost non existent on

2064
01:54:53,680 --> 01:54:58,440
Speaker 2: this record. And then I realized that, oh wow, this

2065
01:54:58,520 --> 01:55:01,320
Speaker 2: album was made for stadiums and datum is only when

2066
01:55:01,360 --> 01:55:05,240
Speaker 2: you guys are working in the studio are you blasting

2067
01:55:05,440 --> 01:55:09,120
Speaker 2: the music at the highest levels possible? Like is he

2068
01:55:09,360 --> 01:55:12,320
Speaker 2: violating the don't kill your ears in the studio thing,

2069
01:55:12,520 --> 01:55:15,160
Speaker 2: or because I was taught like when you're in the studio,

2070
01:55:15,200 --> 01:55:18,080
Speaker 2: you're supposed to have soft volumes, so that way you

2071
01:55:18,120 --> 01:55:21,480
Speaker 2: don't kill your ears when you're mixing. But I know,

2072
01:55:21,560 --> 01:55:25,920
Speaker 2: like rappers, not to peg him as quote rappers, but

2073
01:55:26,520 --> 01:55:28,120
Speaker 2: I know that we you know, want to hear that

2074
01:55:28,160 --> 01:55:31,240
Speaker 2: shit loud and you know, hit the OX button now

2075
01:55:31,440 --> 01:55:32,320
Speaker 2: like that sort of thing.

2076
01:55:32,480 --> 01:55:38,440
Speaker 3: But uh, we listen. We listen at realistic levels. So

2077
01:55:38,480 --> 01:55:41,560
Speaker 3: in other words, if the thing we're making is meant

2078
01:55:41,600 --> 01:55:45,320
Speaker 3: to be heard loud, we listen to it loud. And

2079
01:55:45,840 --> 01:55:48,600
Speaker 3: we don't have giant speakers. We just use regular you know,

2080
01:55:49,040 --> 01:55:51,480
Speaker 3: like the monitors that would sit on the desk. We

2081
01:55:51,480 --> 01:55:57,280
Speaker 3: don't use big giant monitors. Okay, Kanye uses some some

2082
01:55:57,360 --> 01:56:00,680
Speaker 3: big ones with with that are much louder than the

2083
01:56:00,680 --> 01:56:03,240
Speaker 3: ones that we have in the studio that I always

2084
01:56:03,240 --> 01:56:05,360
Speaker 3: request it to be turned down because too much for me.

2085
01:56:06,200 --> 01:56:10,240
Speaker 2: I see you're tenure for a while, you were president

2086
01:56:10,280 --> 01:56:14,040
Speaker 2: of Columbia records. Why did you decide to take a

2087
01:56:14,080 --> 01:56:18,400
Speaker 2: desk job and why, I mean, how how was the

2088
01:56:18,480 --> 01:56:22,600
Speaker 2: experience for that that that tenure as president of Columbia.

2089
01:56:22,840 --> 01:56:25,440
Speaker 3: Uh, it was not a desk job, which is why

2090
01:56:25,640 --> 01:56:33,640
Speaker 3: I entertained. And my thought was the thing that I

2091
01:56:33,680 --> 01:56:36,480
Speaker 3: do on records has has very little to do with music.

2092
01:56:38,320 --> 01:56:43,000
Speaker 3: It's like my style of production. It would it would

2093
01:56:43,000 --> 01:56:46,440
Speaker 3: work regardless of whether it was music. It's like a

2094
01:56:46,440 --> 01:56:50,800
Speaker 3: way to look at things. It's a recontextualization of what

2095
01:56:50,840 --> 01:56:56,640
Speaker 3: we're working on and solving problems. I happened to do

2096
01:56:56,680 --> 01:56:59,840
Speaker 3: it mostly in music because that's just how it ended

2097
01:56:59,920 --> 01:57:04,480
Speaker 3: up upright, But the idea was to apply the same

2098
01:57:04,720 --> 01:57:07,520
Speaker 3: like what would it be like to produce a record company?

2099
01:57:08,560 --> 01:57:09,120
Speaker 1: Wow?

2100
01:57:10,000 --> 01:57:14,800
Speaker 3: And there were other people to do the desk work,

2101
01:57:15,600 --> 01:57:19,880
Speaker 3: and this was to be more of a helping curate

2102
01:57:19,960 --> 01:57:24,000
Speaker 3: the best artists, helping the artists make the best records

2103
01:57:24,000 --> 01:57:26,640
Speaker 3: that they can. Basically the same thing that I do,

2104
01:57:26,840 --> 01:57:30,560
Speaker 3: except on a bigger scale. And at the time we

2105
01:57:30,760 --> 01:57:34,360
Speaker 3: by the time right till the end there, Columbia Records

2106
01:57:34,400 --> 01:57:39,000
Speaker 3: went from sort of a not great roster to maybe

2107
01:57:39,080 --> 01:57:42,040
Speaker 3: the best roster in the business at that moment in time.

2108
01:57:42,960 --> 01:57:48,000
Speaker 3: The corporate politics of it were not something that suited

2109
01:57:48,160 --> 01:57:55,680
Speaker 3: who I am, and I didn't engage. So basically it'd

2110
01:57:55,720 --> 01:57:58,800
Speaker 3: be like if you're running for a off for office

2111
01:57:59,560 --> 01:58:03,800
Speaker 3: and you're fighting, You're in a debate with someone who's

2112
01:58:03,800 --> 01:58:07,640
Speaker 3: screaming at you and lying and cursing. I'm not doing that.

2113
01:58:08,240 --> 01:58:13,520
Speaker 3: So ultimately the situation worked in a way where it

2114
01:58:14,080 --> 01:58:17,800
Speaker 3: wasn't really good. It could have been great, and it

2115
01:58:17,880 --> 01:58:22,400
Speaker 3: creatively was great, but had the politics not come into it,

2116
01:58:23,160 --> 01:58:24,600
Speaker 3: I think would still be doing it.

2117
01:58:24,600 --> 01:58:28,840
Speaker 2: And will you ever establish a label? Well, I don't

2118
01:58:28,880 --> 01:58:31,720
Speaker 2: know there's a need to establish a label in twenty twenty.

2119
01:58:31,800 --> 01:58:37,360
Speaker 2: Well whatever the twenty twenty version of starting a deaf

2120
01:58:37,440 --> 01:58:42,120
Speaker 2: Jam or a Death American or Colombia, will you ever

2121
01:58:42,280 --> 01:58:45,280
Speaker 2: dive in that pool again? Are you fine with the

2122
01:58:45,400 --> 01:58:46,600
Speaker 2: zone that you're in right now?

2123
01:58:47,400 --> 01:58:49,240
Speaker 3: If there are any acts that I want to work

2124
01:58:49,280 --> 01:58:51,160
Speaker 3: with which are few and far between, that I want

2125
01:58:51,200 --> 01:58:54,800
Speaker 3: to sign, then I have a relationship with Universal where

2126
01:58:54,800 --> 01:58:57,520
Speaker 3: I can sign an act and it'll be on American

2127
01:58:57,640 --> 01:59:00,360
Speaker 3: and it'll come out and I don't have to have

2128
01:59:00,360 --> 01:59:04,360
Speaker 3: a staff. It's like they do the record company part

2129
01:59:04,840 --> 01:59:07,680
Speaker 3: and I could be the creative partner, and that feels

2130
01:59:07,720 --> 01:59:10,840
Speaker 3: about right. I mean, if there was a reason to

2131
01:59:11,120 --> 01:59:16,120
Speaker 3: reinvent the label or help them get better, I'd be

2132
01:59:16,240 --> 01:59:19,840
Speaker 3: open to discussing. It's like I like making I like

2133
01:59:20,800 --> 01:59:23,480
Speaker 3: the challenge of making something good, whatever it is, like

2134
01:59:23,560 --> 01:59:25,200
Speaker 3: figuring out how do we make this better?

2135
01:59:26,160 --> 01:59:28,000
Speaker 1: I always wanted to ask you about sir mix a

2136
01:59:28,000 --> 01:59:33,640
Speaker 1: Lot Man, what led you, buddy? Yeah, shout my buddy

2137
01:59:33,720 --> 01:59:35,200
Speaker 1: Dan Charnis who.

2138
01:59:36,040 --> 01:59:38,800
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

2139
01:59:36,920 --> 01:59:38,400
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.

2140
01:59:38,440 --> 01:59:40,120
Speaker 4: And he brought up a real We had him on

2141
01:59:40,160 --> 01:59:41,880
Speaker 4: the show like when we first started, like a couple

2142
01:59:41,880 --> 01:59:44,040
Speaker 4: of years back, and he brought up a really interesting

2143
01:59:44,080 --> 01:59:46,560
Speaker 4: thing I never really noticed about you of like, he

2144
01:59:46,960 --> 01:59:49,320
Speaker 4: noticed you kind of tend to go for kind of

2145
01:59:49,440 --> 01:59:52,360
Speaker 4: nasally EMCs like ad Rod Mix a Lot, you know

2146
01:59:52,360 --> 01:59:54,240
Speaker 4: what I mean, They have that kind of similar tone.

2147
01:59:54,920 --> 01:59:56,840
Speaker 4: So I was scurious to know, like, what how did

2148
01:59:56,840 --> 01:59:58,320
Speaker 4: you find out about Mix a Lot and what led

2149
01:59:58,360 --> 01:59:59,800
Speaker 4: to you sign to him?

2150
02:00:00,200 --> 02:00:00,360
Speaker 2: Uh?

2151
02:00:00,640 --> 02:00:02,240
Speaker 3: Loved the record Posse on Broadway?

2152
02:00:02,920 --> 02:00:07,680
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, well it was your record. No, well, no

2153
02:00:07,880 --> 02:00:12,400
Speaker 1: that I know this. This is all I'm saying.

2154
02:00:12,880 --> 02:00:15,320
Speaker 2: And I'm so glad you brought this up, Fante, How

2155
02:00:15,320 --> 02:00:19,040
Speaker 2: did you I never as a Philadelphian, I feel guilty

2156
02:00:19,080 --> 02:00:23,760
Speaker 2: for not mentioning what your relationship to PSK was And

2157
02:00:23,840 --> 02:00:27,880
Speaker 2: by the transit of Vaxiom, how did you feel about

2158
02:00:28,360 --> 02:00:32,720
Speaker 2: the way the entire West Coast sort of ate up

2159
02:00:33,680 --> 02:00:36,640
Speaker 2: that particular style because that was with Sir mix a

2160
02:00:36,640 --> 02:00:39,400
Speaker 2: lot that was especially with the first n w A record.

2161
02:00:40,360 --> 02:00:41,720
Speaker 1: Every song was.

2162
02:00:46,360 --> 02:00:50,960
Speaker 2: Like it was practically the West Coast, Like, were you

2163
02:00:51,440 --> 02:00:56,320
Speaker 2: at all aware of the blueprint that license to ill

2164
02:00:56,480 --> 02:00:57,880
Speaker 2: gave to the entire coast?

2165
02:00:58,760 --> 02:01:02,160
Speaker 3: Not really, I think, probably too close to to see.

2166
02:01:02,200 --> 02:01:05,200
Speaker 3: I also, you know, I come to realize later that

2167
02:01:05,400 --> 02:01:08,240
Speaker 3: Brass Monkey, like there was no such thing as Miami

2168
02:01:08,280 --> 02:01:11,240
Speaker 3: Base before Brass Monkey. So it's like it it led

2169
02:01:11,240 --> 02:01:14,120
Speaker 3: to a lot of different It had different tentacles that

2170
02:01:14,160 --> 02:01:16,760
Speaker 3: inspired people in different ways, No, no.

2171
02:01:16,640 --> 02:01:17,720
Speaker 1: Doubt, man.

2172
02:01:17,840 --> 02:01:20,080
Speaker 4: So it mixed a lot. How you like pasta on Broadway?

2173
02:01:20,120 --> 02:01:21,320
Speaker 4: And then how'd you go about it?

2174
02:01:21,360 --> 02:01:22,600
Speaker 3: And I just reached out to him and said, hey,

2175
02:01:22,640 --> 02:01:24,280
Speaker 3: if there's ever an opportunity to work together, I would

2176
02:01:24,280 --> 02:01:26,400
Speaker 3: love to do it, and then ended up working out.

2177
02:01:26,400 --> 02:01:27,760
Speaker 3: He's like, well, I'm on my own label. I don't

2178
02:01:27,760 --> 02:01:30,520
Speaker 3: really want to do that now. But and then eventually

2179
02:01:30,520 --> 02:01:32,120
Speaker 3: he came around, He's like, Yep, I think I'm ready

2180
02:01:32,120 --> 02:01:36,560
Speaker 3: to do this. Let's do this by Baby American? Was

2181
02:01:36,560 --> 02:01:38,000
Speaker 3: that on American? Yes?

2182
02:01:38,320 --> 02:01:40,440
Speaker 1: Oh okay, that was on That was on a mac

2183
02:01:40,520 --> 02:01:42,640
Speaker 1: Daddy album. Okay, and I and.

2184
02:01:42,560 --> 02:01:45,960
Speaker 3: I can't remember. I've heard mix a lot say that

2185
02:01:46,040 --> 02:01:49,720
Speaker 3: I changed the tempo of it drastically in a way

2186
02:01:49,760 --> 02:01:52,800
Speaker 3: that he loves, but like that I heard it differently

2187
02:01:52,880 --> 02:01:54,760
Speaker 3: than he heard it. I don't really remember that, but

2188
02:01:54,760 --> 02:01:55,879
Speaker 3: that I've heard him say.

2189
02:01:55,720 --> 02:01:57,960
Speaker 1: That, you're saying that you physically slowed it down.

2190
02:01:58,840 --> 02:02:01,040
Speaker 3: I think I sped it up. They sped it up,

2191
02:02:01,880 --> 02:02:04,040
Speaker 3: but I'm not sure. I honestly I don't remember it

2192
02:02:04,080 --> 02:02:06,880
Speaker 3: at all. He would, he would know better than I.

2193
02:02:06,880 --> 02:02:07,480
Speaker 1: I was gonna say.

2194
02:02:07,480 --> 02:02:10,160
Speaker 4: Just back on your American stage, there was a record

2195
02:02:10,280 --> 02:02:13,000
Speaker 4: you signed that was. It really took me by surprise

2196
02:02:13,040 --> 02:02:15,400
Speaker 4: that you signed them, because it was unlike anything that

2197
02:02:15,440 --> 02:02:17,360
Speaker 4: you would ever sign or work with before.

2198
02:02:17,880 --> 02:02:20,240
Speaker 1: Uh, the record the nots were ultimate. I don't know

2199
02:02:20,280 --> 02:02:23,000
Speaker 1: if you remember American.

2200
02:02:23,360 --> 02:02:26,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was. That was a Dan Charnas signing. That

2201
02:02:26,480 --> 02:02:26,640
Speaker 3: was a.

2202
02:02:29,320 --> 02:02:34,760
Speaker 1: Ship and I forgot yep. Of course Bad Lad too.

2203
02:02:34,920 --> 02:02:36,360
Speaker 1: Is that dance as well?

2204
02:02:36,920 --> 02:02:37,320
Speaker 3: I think so?

2205
02:02:38,120 --> 02:02:40,480
Speaker 1: Damn yes, Okay, I totally forgot about this too.

2206
02:02:41,240 --> 02:02:42,960
Speaker 4: So with your A and RS, you just pretty much

2207
02:02:43,040 --> 02:02:45,200
Speaker 4: let them kind of do them. Just like if y'all

2208
02:02:45,320 --> 02:02:47,400
Speaker 4: like it, y'all believe in it, I'll fuck with it, Like,

2209
02:02:47,480 --> 02:02:48,640
Speaker 4: what was your role.

2210
02:02:48,520 --> 02:02:49,000
Speaker 1: In it was?

2211
02:02:49,200 --> 02:02:52,120
Speaker 3: It was a combination. It's like if they were really passionate,

2212
02:02:52,240 --> 02:02:53,760
Speaker 3: either I had to like it too. Or if they

2213
02:02:53,800 --> 02:02:56,800
Speaker 3: were really passionate, it's like this is the one. The

2214
02:02:56,800 --> 02:02:59,520
Speaker 3: whole idea of having more A and R people was

2215
02:02:59,560 --> 02:03:01,840
Speaker 3: not just find stuff for me. It was like if

2216
02:03:01,840 --> 02:03:05,360
Speaker 3: someone really was in love with something, then it was

2217
02:03:05,400 --> 02:03:07,520
Speaker 3: exciting to see what could happen. And it worked out

2218
02:03:07,600 --> 02:03:09,720
Speaker 3: in the case of the if you like those records

2219
02:03:09,720 --> 02:03:11,640
Speaker 3: that Dan signed, and if you liked the Black Crows

2220
02:03:11,680 --> 02:03:13,680
Speaker 3: that George signed, then it worked.

2221
02:03:13,800 --> 02:03:16,560
Speaker 2: I got one more music question before I ask you

2222
02:03:16,600 --> 02:03:21,720
Speaker 2: my last question, because we could be twelve hours working. Well,

2223
02:03:21,760 --> 02:03:24,960
Speaker 2: I know that you produced, and I'm a big fan

2224
02:03:25,040 --> 02:03:27,720
Speaker 2: of the Strokes. I know that you worked on the

2225
02:03:27,760 --> 02:03:31,680
Speaker 2: New Abnormal. First of all, did that title come up

2226
02:03:32,040 --> 02:03:37,440
Speaker 2: in very last minute? No, in relation to where we

2227
02:03:37,480 --> 02:03:42,440
Speaker 2: are now, because that sort of a apropos title did not.

2228
02:03:42,760 --> 02:03:47,520
Speaker 3: It just it was a title that Julian came up

2229
02:03:47,560 --> 02:03:53,040
Speaker 3: with the pre pre virus, and it's again just sort

2230
02:03:53,080 --> 02:03:58,080
Speaker 3: of the universe conspiring to make the art right.

2231
02:03:59,440 --> 02:04:03,200
Speaker 2: I'm assuming that they recorded out in Hawaii with with you.

2232
02:04:03,320 --> 02:04:07,600
Speaker 2: We recorded in Malibu, Okay, which I think is kind

2233
02:04:07,600 --> 02:04:11,400
Speaker 2: of different than all the studios that they previously recorded

2234
02:04:11,440 --> 02:04:15,000
Speaker 2: their music in. So how hard was it to get

2235
02:04:15,080 --> 02:04:20,200
Speaker 2: the well oiled machine of what the Strokes represented, especially

2236
02:04:21,200 --> 02:04:22,640
Speaker 2: in the early arts.

2237
02:04:22,680 --> 02:04:24,760
Speaker 1: And I know there was so much pressure on them to.

2238
02:04:24,760 --> 02:04:29,200
Speaker 2: Be the next big thing in quotes like how much

2239
02:04:29,240 --> 02:04:32,160
Speaker 2: of that was on their minds making this record because

2240
02:04:32,160 --> 02:04:34,960
Speaker 2: I can only assume that they took a ten year

2241
02:04:35,080 --> 02:04:39,160
Speaker 2: hiatus because of the pressure of living up to something

2242
02:04:39,200 --> 02:04:43,680
Speaker 2: that they couldn't sort of jump over, a hurdle that

2243
02:04:43,720 --> 02:04:45,000
Speaker 2: they couldn't match or whatever.

2244
02:04:45,440 --> 02:04:49,600
Speaker 3: Well, I think that the first record they put out

2245
02:04:49,960 --> 02:04:53,960
Speaker 3: was there considered their like breakthrough. That was the one,

2246
02:04:54,160 --> 02:04:56,680
Speaker 3: that's the one that sort of lit everything up. And yeah,

2247
02:04:56,680 --> 02:05:00,760
Speaker 3: the second album, the second album seems like it didn't

2248
02:05:01,360 --> 02:05:04,920
Speaker 3: change the world, but continued that and then since then

2249
02:05:04,960 --> 02:05:10,800
Speaker 3: it's been more hit and miss. So I don't think

2250
02:05:10,840 --> 02:05:13,080
Speaker 3: they felt a tremendous I don't I didn't get the

2251
02:05:13,120 --> 02:05:16,240
Speaker 3: sense that they felt a tremendous amount of pressure. I

2252
02:05:16,280 --> 02:05:19,480
Speaker 3: think they felt like, let's make another album because that's

2253
02:05:19,520 --> 02:05:21,440
Speaker 3: what we do, we haven't done it in a while,

2254
02:05:21,520 --> 02:05:25,080
Speaker 3: and hoping it would be good, you know, it's another

2255
02:05:25,160 --> 02:05:27,000
Speaker 3: like the Chili Peppers. They had asked me to produce

2256
02:05:27,560 --> 02:05:32,480
Speaker 3: an album eight or ten years ago, and they sent

2257
02:05:32,520 --> 02:05:35,360
Speaker 3: me demos and I listened to demos and I just

2258
02:05:35,480 --> 02:05:40,560
Speaker 3: I couldn't hear. I couldn't imagine how this, like, how

2259
02:05:40,560 --> 02:05:43,560
Speaker 3: to make something that interesting with what they sent like

2260
02:05:43,600 --> 02:05:45,760
Speaker 3: it didn't. It was just not a good starting point.

2261
02:05:46,600 --> 02:05:50,440
Speaker 2: And if that's a no from you, is does that

2262
02:05:50,480 --> 02:05:53,160
Speaker 2: filter to them that oh shit, this might be bad.

2263
02:05:54,120 --> 02:05:54,560
Speaker 1: I don't know.

2264
02:05:54,720 --> 02:05:57,120
Speaker 3: I just I just said I don't think this is

2265
02:05:57,200 --> 02:05:58,880
Speaker 3: right for me. I don't I don't see how to

2266
02:05:58,880 --> 02:06:02,320
Speaker 3: do this. And then on this album they sent me

2267
02:06:02,400 --> 02:06:09,080
Speaker 3: demos and these were probably the worst quality demos I've

2268
02:06:09,120 --> 02:06:12,920
Speaker 3: ever gotten from any artist, in that one track might

2269
02:06:13,000 --> 02:06:16,360
Speaker 3: be a thirty second voice note on the phone, like real,

2270
02:06:18,120 --> 02:06:25,920
Speaker 3: very very basic, like thumbnail sketches, and I listened to

2271
02:06:25,960 --> 02:06:28,880
Speaker 3: that these and it's like, Oh, this is going to

2272
02:06:28,920 --> 02:06:30,920
Speaker 3: be great. We got to make this. It's like I

2273
02:06:31,400 --> 02:06:36,160
Speaker 3: could feel what was there was inspiring. It's like you

2274
02:06:36,200 --> 02:06:38,280
Speaker 3: could listen to a twenty second clip and go, oh,

2275
02:06:38,680 --> 02:06:40,880
Speaker 3: if there was a song that sounded like this twenty

2276
02:06:40,920 --> 02:06:44,200
Speaker 3: second clip, I'd listen to that all day. Let's make that.

2277
02:06:45,160 --> 02:06:47,920
Speaker 2: So is that the beginning of working with you, Like

2278
02:06:48,200 --> 02:06:51,520
Speaker 2: one has to send the roughest sketch of a song

2279
02:06:51,680 --> 02:06:54,920
Speaker 2: before you can see the light to see how you

2280
02:06:54,960 --> 02:06:59,120
Speaker 2: can develop it. Or does everyone do the Kanye thing

2281
02:06:59,120 --> 02:07:01,600
Speaker 2: where it's damn near complete it and then you just

2282
02:07:02,720 --> 02:07:04,680
Speaker 2: you can add the finishing touches to it.

2283
02:07:05,200 --> 02:07:06,600
Speaker 3: There's no rule. There's no rule.

2284
02:07:06,840 --> 02:07:09,640
Speaker 2: It's like, have you ever built an album from the

2285
02:07:09,640 --> 02:07:12,600
Speaker 2: ground up? Like okay, songwriting.

2286
02:07:13,840 --> 02:07:16,440
Speaker 3: Less songwriting sessions, but like with the Chili Peppers, I

2287
02:07:16,480 --> 02:07:20,640
Speaker 3: would come to rehearsals pretty early on. We would probably

2288
02:07:20,680 --> 02:07:23,680
Speaker 3: go through they might they might have written one hundred

2289
02:07:23,720 --> 02:07:26,240
Speaker 3: songs for every album we did, and we would talk

2290
02:07:26,280 --> 02:07:29,200
Speaker 3: about him and narrow him down, and what was it

2291
02:07:29,200 --> 02:07:33,720
Speaker 3: about under the Bridge that attracted you? The way that

2292
02:07:33,760 --> 02:07:36,960
Speaker 3: it happened was just based on the lyric. It was

2293
02:07:37,000 --> 02:07:41,200
Speaker 3: a lyric that I found in Anthony's book of poetry.

2294
02:07:42,080 --> 02:07:44,360
Speaker 3: And I asked him what song is this and he said,

2295
02:07:44,400 --> 02:07:46,440
Speaker 3: it's not really chili pepper song. That's more of a

2296
02:07:47,040 --> 02:07:50,120
Speaker 3: like personal thing, more of a poem. And I said, well,

2297
02:07:50,200 --> 02:07:51,720
Speaker 3: how would you sing it if you were to sing it?

2298
02:07:51,880 --> 02:07:54,200
Speaker 3: And he sang it for me. He's like He's said,

2299
02:07:54,400 --> 02:07:56,120
Speaker 3: it's like it's a ballad, it's not. It's not a

2300
02:07:56,240 --> 02:08:00,960
Speaker 3: Chili Peppers thing, and and he sang it to me

2301
02:08:01,600 --> 02:08:04,960
Speaker 3: and I say, it's really beautiful. And people like the

2302
02:08:05,040 --> 02:08:09,600
Speaker 3: Chili Peppers not necessarily because you're a funk band with

2303
02:08:09,720 --> 02:08:13,440
Speaker 3: rap lyrics. People like the Chili Peppers because they like

2304
02:08:13,600 --> 02:08:17,600
Speaker 3: the music you four guys make. And if this is

2305
02:08:17,600 --> 02:08:21,840
Speaker 3: an example of something good that you make, I think

2306
02:08:22,080 --> 02:08:25,800
Speaker 3: I think people will accept that. It's like, that's you

2307
02:08:25,840 --> 02:08:28,320
Speaker 3: don't have to put such a limitation on what the

2308
02:08:28,360 --> 02:08:30,640
Speaker 3: band is. It's like, it's about the band, is about

2309
02:08:30,640 --> 02:08:33,000
Speaker 3: the people in it. What's so great about the Beatles?

2310
02:08:33,040 --> 02:08:35,520
Speaker 3: If you listen to their early records, in their late records,

2311
02:08:35,560 --> 02:08:37,480
Speaker 3: they don't sound like the same band. And that's just

2312
02:08:37,520 --> 02:08:39,280
Speaker 3: in seven years that arc.

2313
02:08:40,320 --> 02:08:43,840
Speaker 2: Is there an act that you never with the exception

2314
02:08:43,960 --> 02:08:46,560
Speaker 2: of Bill Withers and I know the stories of you

2315
02:08:46,680 --> 02:08:49,920
Speaker 2: pursuing them, Is there an act that you would have

2316
02:08:50,280 --> 02:08:52,480
Speaker 2: liked to have worked with it you never got a

2317
02:08:52,600 --> 02:08:56,440
Speaker 2: chance to live alive or not alive, or disbanded or

2318
02:08:56,440 --> 02:08:57,200
Speaker 2: not disbanded.

2319
02:08:57,360 --> 02:09:00,960
Speaker 3: Well, obviously Beatles or led Zeppelin or any of the like.

2320
02:09:01,080 --> 02:09:04,160
Speaker 2: Has McCartney ever approached you about producing a record or

2321
02:09:05,600 --> 02:09:07,320
Speaker 2: fish Bone or you.

2322
02:09:07,280 --> 02:09:11,000
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, I met with McCartney and talked about making

2323
02:09:11,040 --> 02:09:14,000
Speaker 3: something has not yet happened, but you never know.

2324
02:09:15,120 --> 02:09:17,640
Speaker 1: I would be interested to see how that works.

2325
02:09:18,000 --> 02:09:20,440
Speaker 6: What made you settle down into the podcast world and

2326
02:09:20,560 --> 02:09:23,200
Speaker 6: was it the allure of doing it with Malcolm Gladwell

2327
02:09:23,280 --> 02:09:25,920
Speaker 6: and hitlerm or like why do you?

2328
02:09:25,960 --> 02:09:29,080
Speaker 5: Why is that now another part of your Wait?

2329
02:09:29,080 --> 02:09:31,640
Speaker 2: Can I give a small preface for this question? So

2330
02:09:32,440 --> 02:09:34,040
Speaker 2: I did your very first podcast?

2331
02:09:34,040 --> 02:09:34,440
Speaker 3: Correct?

2332
02:09:34,920 --> 02:09:35,720
Speaker 1: Was that something like that?

2333
02:09:36,040 --> 02:09:37,480
Speaker 3: One of the one of the.

2334
02:09:37,400 --> 02:09:38,680
Speaker 5: Preson is like the pilot?

2335
02:09:38,720 --> 02:09:40,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, maria'rer in there, Okay.

2336
02:09:40,760 --> 02:09:43,520
Speaker 2: I literally had no idea what I was walking into

2337
02:09:43,680 --> 02:09:47,600
Speaker 2: because you know, sometimes my business being just a little

2338
02:09:47,600 --> 02:09:52,160
Speaker 2: bit yanky. So I was I was on my way

2339
02:09:52,200 --> 02:09:55,680
Speaker 2: to the studio thinking I was doing a QLs episode

2340
02:09:57,240 --> 02:10:00,880
Speaker 2: because it was the same studio wherever we interviewed Heather

2341
02:10:01,000 --> 02:10:05,160
Speaker 2: Hunter or that jazz studio that Steve recommended. I got

2342
02:10:05,200 --> 02:10:06,840
Speaker 2: there and I was like, oh shit, I'm here to

2343
02:10:06,840 --> 02:10:10,520
Speaker 2: do a QLs episode with Malcolm Gladwell. And then I

2344
02:10:10,600 --> 02:10:13,640
Speaker 2: was like, wait, where's where's Laiah and everyone at? And

2345
02:10:13,680 --> 02:10:16,360
Speaker 2: then I was like wait, Rick Rubin you're on this

2346
02:10:16,440 --> 02:10:18,040
Speaker 2: episode two and I.

2347
02:10:18,120 --> 02:10:19,600
Speaker 1: Just winged it in.

2348
02:10:19,640 --> 02:10:24,040
Speaker 2: About twenty minutes into it, I realized, oh, I'm here.

2349
02:10:24,200 --> 02:10:26,280
Speaker 1: I got to read my emails better. I'm here to

2350
02:10:26,360 --> 02:10:27,360
Speaker 1: do That's.

2351
02:10:27,240 --> 02:10:28,920
Speaker 6: The interview you got to prepare for right in me

2352
02:10:28,920 --> 02:10:31,360
Speaker 6: here like be an interviewed by at least those two.

2353
02:10:31,880 --> 02:10:33,360
Speaker 1: Sometimes I fly out the seat.

2354
02:10:33,600 --> 02:10:37,720
Speaker 2: You know, we're just freestyling a podcast show and having

2355
02:10:37,760 --> 02:10:41,920
Speaker 2: no clue what I'm there for and just getting lucky.

2356
02:10:42,040 --> 02:10:45,520
Speaker 2: So when I did their episode, I literally went to

2357
02:10:45,600 --> 02:10:50,200
Speaker 2: that building thinking it's a Malcolm Gladwell episode A Quest

2358
02:10:50,240 --> 02:10:53,680
Speaker 2: Loove Supreme. And then when I saw Rick Rubin's face

2359
02:10:53,720 --> 02:10:56,080
Speaker 2: on the television thing because he did it by monitor,

2360
02:10:56,640 --> 02:10:57,640
Speaker 2: I was hella confused.

2361
02:10:57,640 --> 02:11:00,120
Speaker 1: I was like, wait a minute, what am I doing here?

2362
02:11:00,680 --> 02:11:02,200
Speaker 1: I had to run in the other room and like

2363
02:11:02,240 --> 02:11:05,800
Speaker 1: call it, wait, what am I doing? You're doing someone's fun.

2364
02:11:05,880 --> 02:11:08,200
Speaker 1: I didn't do this, so, but.

2365
02:11:08,280 --> 02:11:10,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, talk about why you even chose to put that.

2366
02:11:10,800 --> 02:11:16,760
Speaker 3: Into I was friendly with Malcolm and I loved his podcast,

2367
02:11:16,880 --> 02:11:20,040
Speaker 3: Revisionist History, and he told me he had an idea

2368
02:11:20,040 --> 02:11:23,760
Speaker 3: to do a new podcast around music and asked if

2369
02:11:23,800 --> 02:11:26,720
Speaker 3: I would be interested in being involved. And I thought

2370
02:11:27,480 --> 02:11:30,240
Speaker 3: I'm a fan of his work. Be fun. It's like, dude,

2371
02:11:30,280 --> 02:11:34,720
Speaker 3: something with Malcolm I wouldn't have normally. I probably wouldn't

2372
02:11:34,720 --> 02:11:37,440
Speaker 3: have chosen to do a music podcast on my own

2373
02:11:37,880 --> 02:11:39,680
Speaker 3: at that time, just because I feel like talk about

2374
02:11:39,760 --> 02:11:41,760
Speaker 3: music most of the time in my normal life. It's

2375
02:11:41,800 --> 02:11:45,080
Speaker 3: almost like the podcast would be to talk about something

2376
02:11:45,120 --> 02:11:47,120
Speaker 3: else that I'm interested in. I don't even know what

2377
02:11:47,160 --> 02:11:49,080
Speaker 3: that would be like. There are a lot of things.

2378
02:11:49,280 --> 02:11:51,280
Speaker 3: It's hard to say. I never thought about it, but

2379
02:11:51,360 --> 02:11:55,080
Speaker 3: this was more his invitation made it seem like, Oh,

2380
02:11:55,120 --> 02:11:57,040
Speaker 3: that'd be fun. I love what he does, so maybe

2381
02:11:57,080 --> 02:11:59,600
Speaker 3: I'll learn something about podcasting doing something with him.

2382
02:12:00,320 --> 02:12:02,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, it seems like y'all don't ever have to worry

2383
02:12:02,120 --> 02:12:04,640
Speaker 6: about guests. So I was I was kind of cramming,

2384
02:12:04,680 --> 02:12:05,480
Speaker 6: and I was listening.

2385
02:12:05,200 --> 02:12:06,720
Speaker 1: To Andre episode.

2386
02:12:06,840 --> 02:12:11,640
Speaker 6: I was just about to say, like, yeah, that was

2387
02:12:11,640 --> 02:12:12,520
Speaker 6: like say, especially.

2388
02:12:12,240 --> 02:12:13,840
Speaker 5: When y'all talked about like beyond moments.

2389
02:12:13,840 --> 02:12:15,640
Speaker 6: We were had made a note about that and the

2390
02:12:15,680 --> 02:12:18,600
Speaker 6: moments that are just beyond, and you were talking about

2391
02:12:18,600 --> 02:12:21,000
Speaker 6: how just these moments in your life where it's like

2392
02:12:21,040 --> 02:12:23,000
Speaker 6: if you did not do one thing, these other things

2393
02:12:23,000 --> 02:12:24,879
Speaker 6: wouldn't happened, Like if you would have stayed in Chicago.

2394
02:12:25,640 --> 02:12:27,680
Speaker 5: Chicago, right, bab we were listening together.

2395
02:12:30,480 --> 02:12:33,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, we we have a lot of mutual friends in common.

2396
02:12:33,760 --> 02:12:40,720
Speaker 2: So just hearing of your evolution, your spiritual evolution, your

2397
02:12:40,800 --> 02:12:45,680
Speaker 2: physical evolution. You know, you've been definitely kind of a

2398
02:12:46,720 --> 02:12:49,720
Speaker 2: life goal mission for me at least where you are

2399
02:12:49,800 --> 02:12:52,680
Speaker 2: with your life and everything, like what's your daily routine

2400
02:12:52,960 --> 02:12:54,720
Speaker 2: and I know like surfings played.

2401
02:12:54,440 --> 02:12:56,680
Speaker 1: A part of it and all that stuff.

2402
02:12:57,240 --> 02:13:00,000
Speaker 3: In Kawai. Now, I've been doing a ninety minute walk

2403
02:13:00,200 --> 02:13:02,880
Speaker 3: every morning on the beach barefoot, a lot of sun

2404
02:13:03,320 --> 02:13:07,240
Speaker 3: and listening to podcasts that ninety minutes. That's where I

2405
02:13:07,240 --> 02:13:10,520
Speaker 3: listen to you. If I listen to one of your pieces,

2406
02:13:10,560 --> 02:13:13,000
Speaker 3: it'll be while I'm walking on the beach. And that's

2407
02:13:13,200 --> 02:13:15,240
Speaker 3: the very first thing every day, and I get that

2408
02:13:15,320 --> 02:13:18,920
Speaker 3: out of the way and then I can start focusing

2409
02:13:18,960 --> 02:13:20,480
Speaker 3: on work or whatever else there is to do for

2410
02:13:20,520 --> 02:13:22,920
Speaker 3: the rest of the day. But I feel like having

2411
02:13:22,960 --> 02:13:25,840
Speaker 3: that right when I wake up, because if I wait,

2412
02:13:26,480 --> 02:13:29,760
Speaker 3: if I wait an hour, I won't do it.

2413
02:13:30,560 --> 02:13:31,800
Speaker 1: Facts, that's me.

2414
02:13:33,320 --> 02:13:36,280
Speaker 3: And if I wait an hour, not only will I

2415
02:13:36,320 --> 02:13:37,880
Speaker 3: won't do it, I'll eat.

2416
02:13:38,680 --> 02:13:40,720
Speaker 1: You do something, Yeah, you do some funds I'll.

2417
02:13:40,600 --> 02:13:43,000
Speaker 3: Definitely eat because if I'm sitting around and I'm hungry,

2418
02:13:43,720 --> 02:13:45,760
Speaker 3: if I'm walking for ninety minutes, I'm not thinking about

2419
02:13:45,800 --> 02:13:48,320
Speaker 3: food because I'm involved in the podcast or book on

2420
02:13:48,400 --> 02:13:53,520
Speaker 3: tape and I'm walking and enjoying myself and my mind

2421
02:13:53,600 --> 02:13:57,480
Speaker 3: is completely occupied because I'm very you know, I listen

2422
02:13:57,520 --> 02:13:59,360
Speaker 3: to things that I'm interested in and learn stuff, and

2423
02:13:59,400 --> 02:14:01,760
Speaker 3: it's great. I look forward to it. Every day. I

2424
02:14:01,760 --> 02:14:03,600
Speaker 3: feel like I run out of time, you know, Like

2425
02:14:03,880 --> 02:14:06,240
Speaker 3: I listened in the car on the way I listen

2426
02:14:06,440 --> 02:14:08,600
Speaker 3: on the beach walk, I listen on the way back,

2427
02:14:09,000 --> 02:14:11,160
Speaker 3: and then usually I have stuff to do to start

2428
02:14:11,200 --> 02:14:13,600
Speaker 3: my day and it's like put it. But I have

2429
02:14:13,720 --> 02:14:15,440
Speaker 3: so much more research to do, I have so many

2430
02:14:15,440 --> 02:14:17,480
Speaker 3: more things to listen to, and I run out of time.

2431
02:14:18,760 --> 02:14:21,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. What has quarantine been like for you? Rick?

2432
02:14:21,200 --> 02:14:24,720
Speaker 4: What is what changes quarantine like? Just kind of how

2433
02:14:24,720 --> 02:14:26,560
Speaker 4: we're in quarantine now and kind of be in lockdown.

2434
02:14:26,880 --> 02:14:28,000
Speaker 4: What has that been like for you?

2435
02:14:28,560 --> 02:14:30,760
Speaker 3: It hasn't changed so much other than the fact that

2436
02:14:30,760 --> 02:14:33,120
Speaker 3: we're in Kawhi because normally we wouldn't normally be in

2437
02:14:33,200 --> 02:14:36,920
Speaker 3: Kawhi now, we'd be in Malibu. But because Malibu is

2438
02:14:36,960 --> 02:14:40,920
Speaker 3: locked down. Kauhi is lockdown too. We were here in

2439
02:14:41,360 --> 02:14:44,440
Speaker 3: over the holidays and we were going back to start.

2440
02:14:44,480 --> 02:14:46,840
Speaker 3: I was going back to start new Avitt Brothers album

2441
02:14:47,120 --> 02:14:50,240
Speaker 3: first week of March, and then I got a call

2442
02:14:50,920 --> 02:14:55,800
Speaker 3: days before saying, hey, stuff's getting sketchy. We're thinking maybe

2443
02:14:55,800 --> 02:14:58,200
Speaker 3: we should just stay home. And it's like, perfect, I'm

2444
02:14:58,240 --> 02:15:01,880
Speaker 3: staying here. You guys stay home. Let's you know, let's

2445
02:15:02,160 --> 02:15:05,040
Speaker 3: wait a minute and figure out what's happening. And that

2446
02:15:05,160 --> 02:15:06,080
Speaker 3: leads us to today.

2447
02:15:07,200 --> 02:15:09,520
Speaker 1: How severe is it in Hawaii right now?

2448
02:15:09,640 --> 02:15:12,240
Speaker 3: As far as there are no cases on the island,

2449
02:15:12,240 --> 02:15:17,000
Speaker 3: which is unbelievable, there's no There are seven islands of

2450
02:15:17,080 --> 02:15:22,360
Speaker 3: Kawaii there, you know, half hour flight apart, but this yeah,

2451
02:15:22,400 --> 02:15:23,280
Speaker 3: this one has none.

2452
02:15:23,480 --> 02:15:25,520
Speaker 5: And Kawaii has like a lower population.

2453
02:15:26,160 --> 02:15:30,400
Speaker 3: Yes, it's very few people and they're far apart, and

2454
02:15:30,440 --> 02:15:33,080
Speaker 3: it's a great place to be on quarantine. Again. We

2455
02:15:33,440 --> 02:15:35,400
Speaker 3: if we weren't here, I don't think we would have

2456
02:15:35,440 --> 02:15:37,440
Speaker 3: come here for it, But the fact that we were

2457
02:15:37,440 --> 02:15:41,600
Speaker 3: here and the opportunity arose seemed like a good choice.

2458
02:15:41,680 --> 02:15:44,000
Speaker 3: The universe again was smiling on us.

2459
02:15:45,720 --> 02:15:49,040
Speaker 2: These two are those those dogs I saw you once

2460
02:15:49,080 --> 02:15:52,280
Speaker 2: with the dogs with the mop.

2461
02:15:52,560 --> 02:15:56,000
Speaker 3: Heads I have won. His name is Champa. I had

2462
02:15:56,040 --> 02:16:00,560
Speaker 3: two before him named The current dog's name is Yellow.

2463
02:16:01,320 --> 02:16:05,200
Speaker 3: The two prior where Champa and Monday. Chump and Monday

2464
02:16:05,240 --> 02:16:11,640
Speaker 3: passed away at eighteen nineteen years old. And now Champa

2465
02:16:11,760 --> 02:16:18,680
Speaker 3: is Monday's brother, brother's son. I think so in the family,

2466
02:16:20,040 --> 02:16:21,320
Speaker 3: and he's probably twelve now.

2467
02:16:21,400 --> 02:16:23,240
Speaker 1: It wasn't a pack of him, I could have sworn.

2468
02:16:23,320 --> 02:16:26,800
Speaker 1: I seen like a family of them. I had you before,

2469
02:16:26,800 --> 02:16:27,440
Speaker 1: and now I have one.

2470
02:16:27,920 --> 02:16:30,320
Speaker 2: I saw one and then the other one. The other

2471
02:16:30,360 --> 02:16:33,240
Speaker 2: would follow wherever one would go, Okay, I remember that.

2472
02:16:34,000 --> 02:16:34,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2473
02:16:34,240 --> 02:16:36,440
Speaker 4: I want to know, man, do you still when you're

2474
02:16:36,480 --> 02:16:41,240
Speaker 4: working out your ideas? Are you like still making tracks

2475
02:16:41,400 --> 02:16:42,760
Speaker 4: or does it start on an instrument?

2476
02:16:42,760 --> 02:16:44,800
Speaker 1: How do you flesh out the ideas that you may have.

2477
02:16:45,600 --> 02:16:47,600
Speaker 3: It really depends. I don't. I don't do it for

2478
02:16:47,640 --> 02:16:49,800
Speaker 3: the sake of doing it. So it's more like if

2479
02:16:49,800 --> 02:16:53,240
Speaker 3: there's a reason to make something, if there's a from

2480
02:16:53,280 --> 02:16:55,240
Speaker 3: working on a project that needs a piece of music

2481
02:16:55,280 --> 02:16:57,400
Speaker 3: that needs to start with me, which I'd prefer not

2482
02:16:57,560 --> 02:17:01,520
Speaker 3: to do. I like. I like elaborating. I like hearing

2483
02:17:01,560 --> 02:17:04,920
Speaker 3: something and finding pieces that I could make into the

2484
02:17:04,959 --> 02:17:07,160
Speaker 3: thing that I want to make as opposed to starting

2485
02:17:07,200 --> 02:17:09,240
Speaker 3: from scratch. I have to start from scratch. I can,

2486
02:17:09,720 --> 02:17:13,120
Speaker 3: but it's not my favorite thing to do. And if

2487
02:17:13,160 --> 02:17:15,400
Speaker 3: it is, I'll either make a beat on a drum machine,

2488
02:17:15,560 --> 02:17:18,480
Speaker 3: or I'll start with a sample and then build up

2489
02:17:18,480 --> 02:17:22,000
Speaker 3: a track around the sample and then either keep the

2490
02:17:22,040 --> 02:17:24,240
Speaker 3: sample in, remove the sample, mess with the sample.

2491
02:17:25,120 --> 02:17:29,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, are you using like Ableton or like what software?

2492
02:17:29,360 --> 02:17:31,959
Speaker 3: We usually do everything in pro Tools, although it's still

2493
02:17:32,000 --> 02:17:34,200
Speaker 3: you know, just still out of you know, I don't

2494
02:17:34,200 --> 02:17:35,680
Speaker 3: know any better and I don't know how to run

2495
02:17:35,720 --> 02:17:38,000
Speaker 3: pro Tools. I don't really I'm not a technical person

2496
02:17:38,040 --> 02:17:40,600
Speaker 3: at all. I just can say I like it, like this,

2497
02:17:40,720 --> 02:17:42,160
Speaker 3: let's change this beat.

2498
02:17:42,480 --> 02:17:44,840
Speaker 2: When you take on a project, do you stay on

2499
02:17:44,879 --> 02:17:48,160
Speaker 2: that project or are you able to hop from project

2500
02:17:48,240 --> 02:17:52,040
Speaker 2: to project? Like Okay, I'm gonna work with Chili Peppers

2501
02:17:52,120 --> 02:17:54,760
Speaker 2: at the studio on Monday and then run to do

2502
02:17:54,800 --> 02:17:58,640
Speaker 2: the Dixie Chicks next week over there and blah blah blah,

2503
02:17:58,680 --> 02:18:03,359
Speaker 2: like or are you stay? I do you?

2504
02:18:03,360 --> 02:18:03,920
Speaker 1: You hire me?

2505
02:18:04,000 --> 02:18:07,360
Speaker 2: And we If it's over three months, then we're in trouble,

2506
02:18:07,440 --> 02:18:09,720
Speaker 2: Like how do you schedule.

2507
02:18:10,200 --> 02:18:14,880
Speaker 3: The first one? Because it's I don't think it's possible

2508
02:18:15,360 --> 02:18:18,560
Speaker 3: to say, we're going to put three months on hold,

2509
02:18:18,560 --> 02:18:19,959
Speaker 3: and in that three months, we're going to make the

2510
02:18:19,959 --> 02:18:23,240
Speaker 3: best album the world has ever heard. I don't. I don't.

2511
02:18:23,400 --> 02:18:25,800
Speaker 3: I don't believe in that. I don't believe it's possible.

2512
02:18:26,120 --> 02:18:28,280
Speaker 3: Maybe some people can do it, I don't know. I

2513
02:18:28,280 --> 02:18:31,480
Speaker 3: don't know how that works. So every project has its

2514
02:18:31,520 --> 02:18:35,440
Speaker 3: own rhythm, and as I said, sometimes it happens very quickly.

2515
02:18:35,840 --> 02:18:39,800
Speaker 3: Sometimes it takes a long time, and I don't I

2516
02:18:40,040 --> 02:18:45,840
Speaker 3: try not to do it as much as possible based

2517
02:18:45,879 --> 02:18:48,640
Speaker 3: on my schedule. It's always about the artist schedule. And

2518
02:18:48,640 --> 02:18:50,680
Speaker 3: when I say the artist schedule, I don't mean the

2519
02:18:50,760 --> 02:18:53,800
Speaker 3: artist schedule of when they want to go on vacation.

2520
02:18:54,000 --> 02:18:59,600
Speaker 3: I mean the artist schedule of when the idea is hot,

2521
02:19:00,120 --> 02:19:04,879
Speaker 3: you know, when the songs are ready. We have to

2522
02:19:04,920 --> 02:19:08,840
Speaker 3: find a way that, when the moment is right to

2523
02:19:08,920 --> 02:19:12,200
Speaker 3: make it, that we can make it. And I can

2524
02:19:12,240 --> 02:19:15,360
Speaker 3: think of very few times in my life where it

2525
02:19:15,400 --> 02:19:17,440
Speaker 3: hasn't worked out where at a time I might have

2526
02:19:17,520 --> 02:19:20,879
Speaker 3: been making five albums at the same time. Back in

2527
02:19:20,920 --> 02:19:22,600
Speaker 3: the days when I would have to go from studio

2528
02:19:22,640 --> 02:19:28,080
Speaker 3: to studio, it might be we're doing overdubs with this

2529
02:19:28,280 --> 02:19:31,600
Speaker 3: artist and I'm working on just vocals with another artist

2530
02:19:31,720 --> 02:19:34,960
Speaker 3: on a different album at at the same time. Maybe

2531
02:19:35,000 --> 02:19:38,640
Speaker 3: I do noon to noon to three with one artist

2532
02:19:38,680 --> 02:19:42,200
Speaker 3: and three to six with another artist that way, or

2533
02:19:42,280 --> 02:19:44,600
Speaker 3: maybe I'm doing pre production with one and working on

2534
02:19:44,680 --> 02:19:47,320
Speaker 3: mixing with another, And it could be as many as

2535
02:19:47,680 --> 02:19:49,560
Speaker 3: four or five or six going on same time. It's

2536
02:19:49,600 --> 02:19:52,320
Speaker 3: not unusual because some of them could go on for years,

2537
02:19:52,400 --> 02:19:58,720
Speaker 3: you know, do you I work with engineers and each project.

2538
02:19:59,040 --> 02:20:01,960
Speaker 3: Usually I try to have an engineer dedicated to that

2539
02:20:02,040 --> 02:20:07,640
Speaker 3: particular project, like a tag team partner. So and also

2540
02:20:08,320 --> 02:20:10,040
Speaker 3: I like to work like in the old days, I

2541
02:20:10,120 --> 02:20:12,120
Speaker 3: used to work all night, drive home as the sun

2542
02:20:12,200 --> 02:20:15,280
Speaker 3: was coming up. Now I'm on an early schedule, so

2543
02:20:15,400 --> 02:20:17,200
Speaker 3: I like to have the sessions start at like noon

2544
02:20:17,320 --> 02:20:20,680
Speaker 3: or one, and I like to be done by six.

2545
02:20:21,120 --> 02:20:23,320
Speaker 3: Now that doesn't mean like on the Strokes album which

2546
02:20:24,320 --> 02:20:27,240
Speaker 3: we just you know, made recently, just came out three

2547
02:20:27,320 --> 02:20:32,480
Speaker 3: weeks ago or something, I would come from noon to six,

2548
02:20:34,040 --> 02:20:38,440
Speaker 3: and then I would leave a list, a to do list,

2549
02:20:39,000 --> 02:20:41,400
Speaker 3: so the band could go on working as late as

2550
02:20:41,440 --> 02:20:43,400
Speaker 3: midnight if they you know, they band could work as

2551
02:20:43,400 --> 02:20:45,800
Speaker 3: long as they want and have a list of things

2552
02:20:45,840 --> 02:20:48,039
Speaker 3: to do. In addition to anything that they would want

2553
02:20:48,040 --> 02:20:50,600
Speaker 3: to try on their own, and then the next morning

2554
02:20:50,640 --> 02:20:52,400
Speaker 3: I would come in, we would review what happened the

2555
02:20:52,480 --> 02:20:54,680
Speaker 3: night before, and then we would start on the day's work.

2556
02:20:55,760 --> 02:20:59,400
Speaker 3: I gotta try it, yeah, And I've also by making

2557
02:20:59,440 --> 02:21:02,400
Speaker 3: a lot of our albums, I've come to realize when

2558
02:21:02,760 --> 02:21:08,440
Speaker 3: my voice is particularly helpful in the process, and sometimes

2559
02:21:08,440 --> 02:21:10,800
Speaker 3: it's in pre production, it means a lot. In the

2560
02:21:10,840 --> 02:21:13,720
Speaker 3: basic track, it means a lot. Getting the vocals, it

2561
02:21:13,760 --> 02:21:18,840
Speaker 3: means a lot. But many of the other times, during overdubs,

2562
02:21:18,920 --> 02:21:23,240
Speaker 3: during guitar solos, I usually if I trust the artist,

2563
02:21:23,320 --> 02:21:24,840
Speaker 3: I let them do it, and then I might come in,

2564
02:21:24,879 --> 02:21:27,640
Speaker 3: Like with Tom Morello, if we're doing on either a

2565
02:21:27,760 --> 02:21:31,119
Speaker 3: rage record or an Audio Slave record, He'll do solos

2566
02:21:31,160 --> 02:21:33,320
Speaker 3: on everything, and then I might come and say, you know,

2567
02:21:33,400 --> 02:21:35,480
Speaker 3: those are all great, and this one's not as good.

2568
02:21:35,720 --> 02:21:39,800
Speaker 3: We gotta and then maybe redo this, or if there's

2569
02:21:39,840 --> 02:21:41,920
Speaker 3: ever ones where it's like, let's work on this one

2570
02:21:41,959 --> 02:21:44,680
Speaker 3: together for some reason, if he can't crack the code

2571
02:21:45,120 --> 02:21:46,959
Speaker 3: on his own, then we'll do it together. But I

2572
02:21:47,000 --> 02:21:50,320
Speaker 3: don't like to hold an artist's hand. I don't like

2573
02:21:50,400 --> 02:21:56,880
Speaker 3: to ultimately, if the artist feels like they've done everything themselves.

2574
02:21:57,640 --> 02:22:01,440
Speaker 3: That's the best feeling for me. I don't want I

2575
02:22:01,440 --> 02:22:03,480
Speaker 3: don't want it to I don't want the process to

2576
02:22:03,480 --> 02:22:04,000
Speaker 3: be about me.

2577
02:22:06,160 --> 02:22:10,240
Speaker 1: Life lessons one and only life lessons.

2578
02:22:10,000 --> 02:22:12,400
Speaker 4: Rick Rubin, don't make it about you and walk the

2579
02:22:12,480 --> 02:22:15,160
Speaker 4: first thing in the mornings.

2580
02:22:15,720 --> 02:22:17,080
Speaker 5: I don't want the process to be.

2581
02:22:17,120 --> 02:22:18,360
Speaker 3: Ugly for you.

2582
02:22:19,680 --> 02:22:23,200
Speaker 2: See that's the one thing because you know who downstairs

2583
02:22:23,200 --> 02:22:26,240
Speaker 2: always says, See, Rick Rubin walks early in the morning,

2584
02:22:26,440 --> 02:22:27,280
Speaker 2: and you don't do it.

2585
02:22:27,879 --> 02:22:29,680
Speaker 1: So now I'm gonna have to wake my answer up

2586
02:22:29,680 --> 02:22:30,640
Speaker 1: at six in the morning.

2587
02:22:32,400 --> 02:22:35,039
Speaker 2: You wake up, your first thing is just doing because

2588
02:22:35,160 --> 02:22:38,120
Speaker 2: I'll create a bunch of excuses. I have to get

2589
02:22:38,200 --> 02:22:40,240
Speaker 2: up at six and walk. All right, thank you, Rick.

2590
02:22:40,400 --> 02:22:44,120
Speaker 2: I will now reach my goal of two twenty pounds.

2591
02:22:44,720 --> 02:22:47,000
Speaker 2: I'm gonna walk because Rick said, Because Rick said so.

2592
02:22:47,800 --> 02:22:51,200
Speaker 1: Anyway, Rick, dude, this is this has been what like

2593
02:22:51,400 --> 02:22:52,400
Speaker 1: four years in the making.

2594
02:22:52,560 --> 02:22:56,119
Speaker 6: Yes, exactly, Shout out today, Shout out today.

2595
02:22:56,959 --> 02:23:03,760
Speaker 3: I have a suggestion quest, which is every day for

2596
02:23:03,800 --> 02:23:08,560
Speaker 3: the next let's make it three weeks. When you go

2597
02:23:08,640 --> 02:23:11,080
Speaker 3: on your walk, just send me a message at the

2598
02:23:11,200 --> 02:23:14,760
Speaker 3: end saying I walked this along today, just a little

2599
02:23:14,840 --> 02:23:16,800
Speaker 3: check in like, Hey, I did this today.

2600
02:23:16,800 --> 02:23:22,160
Speaker 1: Accountability, I will do so. Yes, just about accountability.

2601
02:23:22,640 --> 02:23:26,680
Speaker 2: I'm about accountability, and I'm about integrity, life coach. Yes,

2602
02:23:27,200 --> 02:23:30,920
Speaker 2: about integrity. Two twenty is right around the bin. I'm

2603
02:23:30,959 --> 02:23:31,600
Speaker 2: ready for this shit.

2604
02:23:31,720 --> 02:23:33,400
Speaker 6: Thank you, and send a group text to all of

2605
02:23:33,440 --> 02:23:35,240
Speaker 6: us and we'll go Yeah, we finished ours too.

2606
02:23:35,280 --> 02:23:38,840
Speaker 1: You're going to be a sleep all right. So on

2607
02:23:38,959 --> 02:23:41,240
Speaker 1: behalf of uh Rick Rubin.

2608
02:23:41,879 --> 02:23:50,960
Speaker 2: Yes on, behalf of Sugar Steve On, pay bill by

2609
02:23:51,840 --> 02:23:57,080
Speaker 2: Vroon Tigelow and be great incomparable Rick Rubin. Four years

2610
02:23:57,080 --> 02:23:59,440
Speaker 2: We've been dying for this. My name is Qus Loved.

2611
02:23:59,480 --> 02:24:01,400
Speaker 2: This is plus Love Supreme. We will see you on

2612
02:24:01,440 --> 02:24:02,199
Speaker 2: the next around.

2613
02:24:02,600 --> 02:24:20,480
Speaker 10: Thank you Must Love Supreme.

2614
02:24:20,520 --> 02:24:22,279
Speaker 1: It's a production iHeartRadio.

2615
02:24:25,320 --> 02:24:28,640
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

2616
02:24:28,840 --> 02:24:31,879
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.