1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:09,479 Speaker 1: Here we go. There's nothing more comforting than hearing the 2 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: soft crackle of a needle on a record. The more 3 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: we get together again, the more we get together your 4 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: life friends and my friends, sorry, your friends, the more 5 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: we get together. When I started listening to Raffie, I 6 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: ordered his first kid's album on vinyl, single Moore Songs 7 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: for the Very Young and Sorry, Raffie. I got it 8 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: on eBay, so you won't be seeing any of this money. 9 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: But as soon as I got it, I went all in, 10 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: maybe a little too much. Love of bis and children's 11 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: songs are just kind of weird and halfway terrifying, Like, 12 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: what is this song even about it? I can imagine 13 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: it on a Beatles album. Also, so why the kids 14 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: love Whistle so much? I wonder? Is this strategy me 15 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: into madness. I have these wild, almost conspiracy theories about 16 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: how he's naming his albums. I'm not actually sure what 17 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: that means, but it sounds fun, that little burbling keyboard sound. 18 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and call it a club banger. 19 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: Dear Raffi, I like your hat. Do you write lots 20 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: of songs? Because I like them a lot. I appreciate 21 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: his attention to detail on putting this very comfortable song 22 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: after that kind of scary, weird song, I started to 23 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: see just how carefully crafted it was. Starting with the cover. 24 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: It's a portrait of Raffi in crayon, drawn by a 25 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: seven year old fan, and it really captures Raffi, the beard, 26 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: the guitar, he's even sitting on a stool as if 27 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: he's performing at some coffee house in the village. And 28 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: at the bottom he added his personal flare with the 29 00:01:55,360 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: words great with a peanut butter sandwich. The cover loan 30 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: speaks to Raphie's commitment to his audience and do his 31 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: great attention to detail. Looking back, it feels like it 32 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: was like pulling teeth, but it wasn't quite. But even 33 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:16,239 Speaker 1: something like that crayon border, I tried it in four 34 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: or five different colors, and I cut the paper out 35 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: and put it on the rest of the cover and 36 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: stood on a chair looking down. Well, it's so well 37 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: put together. Just the artwork alone is so well composed 38 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: and so thoughtful and so intentional. What do you think 39 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: of yourself as a perfectionist I was back then, but 40 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: I mean even without that, you you strive for excellence 41 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: you know, if I did a good job, I'm proud 42 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: of it. Where do you think this came from? This 43 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: drive to do something excellent, because it's not within everybody 44 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: to be completely excellent at all times. I was a 45 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: very good student when I was younger. I was always 46 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: near the top of my class. There was a push 47 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: to excel that came from my parents, and there was 48 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: also the model of my father's photography, where he was 49 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: immaculate and what he did he had high standards, and 50 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: I think I I soaked up a lot of that, 51 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: you know, so I gave it my best certainty. Raphael's father, Arto, 52 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: was a master portrait artist. So was Arto's father. These 53 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 1: men had confidence in their trade and worked constantly. When 54 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: Arto presented his clients with a finished product, he'd only 55 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: give them one proof, just one proof that met his 56 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: standards of perfection. I know something about having a perfectionist father. 57 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: My dad, Andres was an aerospace machinist, a trade where 58 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: there's no room for error. He drove two hours to 59 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: and from work each day, coming home smelling like metal. 60 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: I think about that every time I don't want to 61 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: go out and do a set, or when a joke 62 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: doesn't land just right. His dedication to his craft set 63 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: the bar for me, leading to my own perfectionism, something 64 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: Raffi has struggled with. Two In his book, he writes 65 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: that he used to take things too seriously. It was 66 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: always a push and pull between following joy and meeting 67 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: the standards set by generations of Cabukians, especially when it 68 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: came to sweating the small stuff. And you can see 69 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: it in the liner notes of single bowl Songs for 70 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: the very Young, where no detail has missed and no 71 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: opportunity for a little more playfulness is left on the table. 72 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: You credit Santa for playing the sleigh bells, Well, you 73 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: got credit Santa. Nothing Raffie did was by accident. I'm 74 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: Chris Garcia and This is Fighting Raffie, a ten part 75 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: series from My Heart Radio and Fatherly in partnership with 76 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: Rococo Punch, about the life, philosophy, and the work of Raffie, 77 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 1: the man behind the music. Raphi was seven in nine. 78 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: At night, he was playing gigs and smokey bars, loud 79 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: clubs and coffee houses around Toronto to make some extra cash. 80 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: He started playing for a new crowd in Toronto. There 81 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: was a program that used to pay folk singers to 82 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: come into the classroom sing songs with kids like Michael 83 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: Roll the Boat, Ashore, Swing Low, Sweet Area, all that 84 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: kind of stuff, you know, and that was fun. He'd 85 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,039 Speaker 1: also reunited with his high school sweetheart, Deborah Pike also 86 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: known as deb Or Debbie, who was a primary school teacher. 87 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: Deb taught Raphy the words to these songs he hadn't 88 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: grown up with. So I had to learn Bah bah 89 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: black sheep word for word, and I went wow. Raphy 90 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: didn't really know any kids. He'd never really even thought 91 00:05:55,560 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: about them until they became his audience. I'm marvel that 92 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: what I was learning about kids, the kind of people. 93 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: They are there spontaneous for sure, and they're learning all 94 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: the time. Everything is fresh and new for them. They're 95 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 1: learning what it feels like to be human. Something happened 96 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: when he showed up with a guitar and sat down 97 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: on a rug surrounded by eager, white eyed kids. He 98 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: held their attention. He was a natural. That's when Deb's mom, Daphne, 99 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: made a suggestion, maybe Ralph he should make an album 100 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: for kids, and I thought, well, that's an interesting idea. 101 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: After all, RAPI wouldn't be the first folk singer to 102 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: make an album for kids. One of his heroes, Pete Seeger, 103 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: did it, maybe he could too. He and Deb decided 104 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: to do some field research. She and I visited a 105 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: couple of records stores as we called them in the 106 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, and we noticed that most, if not all, 107 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: the children's recordings were stuck in some lowly been at 108 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: the back of the store, and there was a sign 109 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: that said to nine nine or something like it was. 110 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,239 Speaker 1: It was like they were just pieces of extraneous trash 111 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: or something. This is what Raffi was up against. He 112 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: needed to persuade the music industry to take children's music seriously, 113 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: to invest in it. And to do that he had 114 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: to make something of quality, an album that demonstrated what 115 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: kids deserve. The language in most children's albums at the 116 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: time didn't reflect anything, I mean just it just talked 117 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: down to children, as if they were all babies and idiots. 118 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: That's Burt Simpson, Ralphie's longtime friend, collaborator and now senior 119 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: associate at Troubadour Raphy's record company. Bert, along with his 120 00:07:55,640 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: wife Bonnie and Deb, became Raffie's official educational advisors. What 121 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: Bonnie and Debbie and I had was a lot of 122 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: experience with very young children and a lot of educational theory. 123 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: But on the most practical level, we knew what kids like, 124 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: We knew what they would sing. Ralphie called them the Committee. Bert, 125 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: Bonnie and Debb were well versed in what young kids 126 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: needed to thrive. They were teachers who believed that children 127 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: should be active participants in their education. They subscribed to 128 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: the progressive educational models that were gaining popularity in the 129 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: sixties and seventies, like Monessori and the free school movement. 130 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: Raphie immersed himself in these ideas. It felt like he 131 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: and the Committee were getting down to something essential. Children 132 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: are people like you and me, their whole people. Just 133 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: because they're younger doesn't mean they're lesser people, And that 134 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: the way to be with children is to treat them 135 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: with respect for the people that they are, keeping in 136 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: mind where they are beginning stage of life. You see there, 137 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: your compassion comes up here. These kids are learning all 138 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: about what it's like to be who we are as adults. 139 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: Only it's like they're in their adults and training kind 140 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 1: of thing, right, And how can you not have compassion 141 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: for a child who's basically doing their best, you know, 142 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: and learning from there, Raffie and the committee came up 143 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: with a basic album philosophy. It was simple. One the 144 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: songs had to be fun for kids to sing to. 145 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,079 Speaker 1: The album had to be enjoyable for adults, and three, 146 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 1: the album would respect children as listeners. So Ralphie had 147 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: his experts, he had his album philosophy. He knew what 148 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,119 Speaker 1: he wanted the album to sound like. Now he needed musicians. 149 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: So I enlisted the help of my good friend and 150 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: multi instrumentalists, Ken Whitely. And that was the smartest thing 151 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: I did, because Ken said, yeah, man, let's do it. 152 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: So I played banjo and mandolin and you know different 153 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: kinds oft and keyboards, you know, piano, accordion. This is 154 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: Ken Whiteley. And when Ralphie says he's a multi instrumentalist, 155 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: well that's an understatement, because woo's all that kind of stuff. 156 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: Cannon Raffie met in their twenties through the Toronto folk 157 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: scene and reconnected after both had started to make contacts 158 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: in the industry. That's how kennew about a studio nearby 159 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: where they could record Ralphie's album. In n I had 160 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: recorded a couple of albums at this studio that was 161 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: ten dollars an hour in the basement of these two 162 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: brothers where they lived in the suburbs of the city 163 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: called Hamilton, Ontario. There's the Landwa Brothers, Bob Lanjue, his 164 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: brother Daniel Lanoix Danny for all you music nerds, Yeah, 165 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: that Daniel Lenois, producer of you Two's Octung Baby, Dylan's 166 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: Time out of Mind. He produced Brian Know, Willie Nelson, 167 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: I Mean, Lou Harris, Neil Young, the man Rolling Stone 168 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: called the most important record producer to emerge in the eighties, 169 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: started with Raffie No Wonder. I love this album so much. 170 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: Dan Lenois is a legend and I am not cuckoo 171 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: bananas for noticing this album's exquisite production value. It was 172 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: Daniel Lenoi's mother's home in the basement studio ad egg 173 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 1: Carton's on the ceiling. It occupied the whole basement. There 174 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: was a control room and they could move baffles around 175 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: to sort of create an isolated space. I said to myself, 176 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: I'm getting my money's worth here. Everything was starting to 177 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: come together. The idea was to create an album for 178 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: kids that would be tonally and lyrically appropriate, but also 179 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: musically dynamic and interactive. It would have beautiful, pristine, high 180 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: quality production, and it would embrace the fact that kids 181 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: were a real audience, just like their parents. So with 182 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: beginner's luck, we proceeded to record in that setting. After 183 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: months of planning, it was go time for Raffi's first 184 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: children's album. Bob and Dan landwas sat behind the board. 185 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: Raffi and his musicians were tuned up and ready to go. 186 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 1: Ken was, you know, doing his multi instrumentalist magic. He'd 187 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: play guitar here, he'd played banjo there, he'd play something else. 188 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: And his brother Chris Whitelee, very talented musician, played trumpet 189 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: and he played harmonica. He played trumpet on Robbing in 190 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: the Rain. That turned out to be a great horn 191 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: section that that he did. Robbing in the ring. What 192 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: a saucy fellow, robbing in the ring on your socks 193 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: of yellow, running in the garden on your nimbo feet, 194 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: digging for your dinner with your long, strong beating. I 195 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: do remember bumping up and down in my little red 196 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: wagon because you know, it's basically Raphy singing and playing 197 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: guitar and me overdubbing half a dozen other instruments on 198 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: bumping up and down in my little red wagon, Bumping 199 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: up and down in my little red wagon, bumping up 200 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: and down in my little red wagon. Won't you be 201 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: in my dark? So these songs. The more we get 202 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: together with mandolin and down by the bay Willoughby Wallaby 203 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: who had trumpet in it, one track after another, this 204 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 1: little album that could started to gain form. You know, 205 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: Peanut butter sandwich made with jam, one for me and 206 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: one for David m Rama. Peanut butter sandwich made with 207 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: jim sticks stick sticky stick stick. I love to picture it. 208 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: Ken Whiteley playing every instrument he can get his hands on, 209 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: Dan Lenois and his mom's basement, telling RAFFI, hey, Raffy, 210 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: because who was coming in a little flat on peanut 211 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: butter sandwich. Let's go ahead and take it from the top. 212 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: We literally, quote unquote didn't know what we were doing, 213 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: which is a delightful way to be when you're making 214 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: music because you're not self conscious about it. I mean, 215 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: if you listen to Willoby Wallaby woo and listen to 216 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: the what could I even call it? It's like a 217 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: vocal instrumental in the middle that dude that that yeah, 218 00:14:52,000 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: that that is totally unself conscious do and it ends 219 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: with bah bah blah blah blah blah. But I'm and 220 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: sometimes I listen to now and I go, did I 221 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: really do that? The timing of it is perfect. It 222 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: just fell into the groove, you know, it just became 223 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: a groove thing. It was great. That's what I mean 224 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: about the un self consciousness of that beginner effort. I 225 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: made it out. They even included to holiday songs my 226 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: dradal and must be Santa, Who's got a beard that's 227 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: long and white comes around. We weren't going by any 228 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: you know, market research or anything. We were kind of 229 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: winging it, you know, having fun, including songs that we 230 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: thought kids would enjoy singing. And that's what we did. 231 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I remember, you know, driving to a blues 232 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: gig with a harmonica player and say, hey, you got 233 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: to hear this project I'm working on. You know, it 234 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: had that sort of enthusiasm attached to it, you know, 235 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: where you're wanting to share it as broadly as possible, 236 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: and so I kind of had a feeling, Wow, this 237 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: could really be successful. You know. In those early days, 238 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: this group of adults was somehow able to tap into 239 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: what it feels like to be a kid. They captured 240 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: the wonder and the insecurity that's most evident to me 241 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: listening to the lyrics of I Wonder if I'm Growing. 242 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: I Wonder if I'm growing. I wonder if I'm growing. 243 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: My mom says, yes, I'm growing, but it's hard for 244 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: me to see. My mom says, I remember playing nylon 245 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: string guitar on that song, not my steel string acoustic. 246 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,479 Speaker 1: You can just feel that it's coming from a vulnerable 247 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: place that Raphael is singing I Wonder if I'm growing 248 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: in a genuine way, if I'm growing. I wonder if 249 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: I'm growing. My mom seemed to touch people who hear it, 250 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: you know, because the song goes from wondering if I'm 251 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: growing too. Hey, I can reach the tap now for 252 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: the very first time today. So the song goes somewhere. 253 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: It takes you somewhere, and if you're a young child listening, 254 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: I think it probably adds to the child's wonderment of growing. 255 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 1: I Wonder if I'm Growing was the basic album Philosophy 256 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: in Action, a beautiful song that both kids and parents 257 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: would love that also respects children as they are, and 258 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: I think I must be growing if he only knew 259 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: how much he was about to grow in terms of 260 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: his career, in terms of what he was going to 261 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: be allowed to do as a person, speaking not just 262 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: to thirty five people at a coffeehouse, but you know, 263 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: to thirty people in an auditorium, or selling millions of records. 264 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 1: It was November m Robbie Robertson in the Band held 265 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: their farewell concert. Jimmy Carter won the presidency over Gerald Ford. 266 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: The first Mega mouse Shark was discovered off the coast 267 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: of Oahu, and Raffie released his first kids album single 268 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: Bowre Songs for the Very Young Well Mr Son Son, 269 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: Mr Golden Sun, We Shine down on Me, Mr Sun. 270 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: Raffie was a one man record company. There was no 271 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: released team behind him. He really did it all d 272 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: I y, He licensed songs, he made the press, get 273 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,959 Speaker 1: himself designed promotional posters. He had one thousand albums pressed 274 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: for its initial run. Well in time, I could afford 275 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: some help, some stuff, so that was great. But while 276 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: I was doing it, I had an adventure of play 277 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 1: actually about it. Here I was I was pretending I 278 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: was the delivery guy getting in my car and delivering albums, 279 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: going to the train station and sending him by train 280 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: across the country to a children's bookstore. Who was going 281 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: to sell my albums? Wow? I was a delivery man. 282 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: Wea you know, everyone on the committee chipped in to 283 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: get their beloved album out into the world. Bonnie and 284 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: Bert Simpson would even bring small record players two stores 285 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: so they could play the album. Everyone loved that because 286 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: nobody thought of that before. People would say, oh, who's 287 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: what's that? Who's that? And they showed in the record 288 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: and they sold really well. Right from the very beginning. 289 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 1: Ralphie's bet paid off single Bore Songs for the Very 290 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: Young was a hit right from the start. And then 291 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: when the album was released, I was singing in nursery 292 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 1: schools around Toronto and I'd take the album with me 293 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 1: and copies of it for sale, and people were buying 294 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: it in threes and fours to give his gifts. I 295 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: couldn't leave it. I mean, the word was getting out. 296 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 1: You know that this was a special album that you 297 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 1: can have some with you because I shared with you. 298 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: You have to to look back now and decipher why 299 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: Singapore Songs was so successful. It's hard to point to 300 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: one thing. Everything seemed to line up. The quality, production, 301 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: the research, the beginner spirit. These were key ingredients. But 302 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: there's also something to be said for Raphie and Ken's 303 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: history with folk music in a lot of ways that 304 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: set them up to make good music for kids in 305 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: the mood, in the mood, and the folk element is 306 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: there even in many of his own selections on these 307 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: marvelous recordings that work very well with children. This is 308 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: Dr Patricia she Hand Campbell. She's an ethno musicologist who 309 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: studies children's music. Patricia says ralphie songs tell stories and 310 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: a sound chill element of folk, and Raphie's music, just 311 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,400 Speaker 1: like the songs of his heroes Pete Seeger and Woody Guthrie, 312 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: are also especially easy for kids to sing along to. 313 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: And they don't reach a full octave, generally speaking, until 314 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: they're about eight or nine. So many of the songs 315 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: are within that smaller pitch range, within an octave, maybe 316 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: only five pitches in distance from one another. And that 317 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: was the place where were children's voices landed comfortably. Little 318 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 1: upon the name there was in the mood, in the 319 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: mood there was, and his name was with the overwhelming 320 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: success of Singable Songs, Raffi and his team started working 321 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: on the follow up album, More Singable Songs, came out 322 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: in ninety seven, and it slapped two. It was time 323 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: to take the show on the road. Hello, Hi, boys 324 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 1: and girls. And I'll never forget the very first concert 325 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: I had where we charged admission were buck when the 326 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: very song I said, the more we get together, and 327 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: by the time we got to the work together, the 328 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: whole place was singing. I couldn't believe it, dep cried. 329 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 1: I mean she was at the back of the hall, 330 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: she cried, hearing everyone sing. And that was it. That's 331 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: how it was gonna be from then on. Here's something 332 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: that amazes me about Raffie, how easily he can hold 333 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: the attention of an auditorium full of kids. I know 334 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,399 Speaker 1: firsthand how difficult that is, because I used to be 335 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: a children's entertainer myself. At you see Berkeley's Public Science Center. 336 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: I dress up like a wizard and teach kids about 337 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: electricity or do improv about the human brain. It was 338 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: so hard that I made the switch to stand up 339 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 1: comedy and entertaining drunk adults. Instead bumping up and down 340 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: in the little red Wagon bumping up and down. I 341 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: keep thinking about this one Raffy concert video, in particular, 342 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: whoa Dot to be My guard? Raffy is physically jumping 343 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: up and down in his seat. The camera pans up 344 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: to the balcony to show a pair of kids mimicking 345 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: his movements. In fact, the entire concert hall of kids 346 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: is bumping up and down in Unison's Hey, this wagon 347 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: is still busted. The stick of the song is that 348 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: the wagon keeps breaking down. By this point, the kids 349 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: are losing their minds yelling out the names of tools 350 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: Raffy could use to fix the wagon. Listen to those ideas. 351 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: This place is full of mechanics today. And just when 352 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: you think a riot is about to break out, if 353 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: Raffy stalls one more minute, he comes in with a 354 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: punch line. I wonder what I do is to fix 355 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 1: the wagon? Raff He's gonna fix it with those sandwich 356 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: Raffy's gonna fix it with this man's got time so 357 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: that he can eat it up and down in my 358 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: little red wagon. We had fun singing any songs together, 359 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: and then I would meet the audience after the show, 360 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,239 Speaker 1: and that was kind of neat because kids with their 361 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: parents would come up and the child would be trying 362 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 1: to say something to me, and maybe it was taking 363 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: their time, and the parents would be trying to hurry 364 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: them along. Sometimes I'd say wait, let's just listen, please, 365 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: and then the child would have time to say something. 366 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: And kids would ask wonderful questions of me. In those 367 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: days of cassettes, Raffie, how did you get out of 368 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 1: my tape? They would say, well, it wasn't me who 369 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: was in there in the first place. It was just 370 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: my voice. That's what you're hearing. Oh that's Raffi reflects 371 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: on these early days of success in his autobiography. They 372 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: were thrilling, but they were also stressful. He recalls getting 373 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: upset when dab, Bonnie and Bert were having too much 374 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: fun in the process. Back then, he thought they had 375 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 1: serious work to do. You know, I've had periods of 376 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: my life where it's you know, I've had challenges to 377 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: go through. You know, I'm no different than anybody else, 378 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:35,120 Speaker 1: personal challenges, professional challenges. At one point I said to myself, 379 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: I keep falling up hill. Here's Burt. Rafi will spend 380 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: a lot of time on the tiniest details of things, 381 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: getting them exactly the way he wants them to be, 382 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: and that's just the way he is. The perfectionism could 383 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: be tiring sometimes sometimes I just go on and say, okay, 384 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: well let's just pick one show, you know, and get 385 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: on with that. But it's not like that. So if 386 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: that's what he meant by taking himself seriously, you know 387 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: he did. Ralphie's attention to detail and commitment to excellence 388 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: to the point of perfection sometimes put work ahead of fun. 389 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,199 Speaker 1: He writes that he could be controlling and moody if 390 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 1: things didn't go his way, and that he often put 391 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 1: too much pressure on others, but especially on himself. The 392 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 1: friends in our lives can be a huge support to us. 393 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: A prayerful attitude can often help in many ways. You know. 394 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 1: I'm just grateful to always return to a place of 395 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: love and joy. Meanwhile, as Ralphie's family audiences kept growing, 396 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: his dream of becoming a folk singer for adults started 397 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,199 Speaker 1: to fade. He kept some of his night gigs, but 398 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: the dream started to feel too distant, so he decided 399 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: to fully commit to his children's music career. Soon he 400 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 1: would start selling out thousand seat venues and festivals from 401 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,919 Speaker 1: coast to coast. He'd make hit album after hit album. 402 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: He'd be offered movie deals and endorsements. The path to 403 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: superstardom was knocking on his door, but Raffie said no, 404 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: No toys, no fast food deals, no corporate endorsements, no 405 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: to the industry standard. Rafie was determined to forge his 406 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: own path, and he was going to make it happen 407 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: his way next time. On Finding Raffie, the primary goal 408 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: of advertising and marketing is to train kids to become consumers. 409 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: If I love my audience and if I respect for 410 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: the people that they are, my young audience, how can 411 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: I explain them? Why would I ever want to do 412 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:11,679 Speaker 1: commercial indorsements or you know, sell things to them based 413 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: on my popularity? That would be right with it. Finding 414 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: Raffie is a production in My Heart Radio and Fatherly 415 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: in partnership with Rococo Punch. It's produced by Catherine Fendalosa, 416 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: Meredith Hannig, and James Trout. Production assistance from Charlotte Livingston. 417 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: Alex French is our story consultant. Our senior producer is 418 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: Andrea Swahee. Emily Foreman is our editor. Fact checking by 419 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: Andrea Lopez Crusado. Raphae's music is courtesy of Troubadour Music 420 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Kim Layton at Troubadour. Our. Executive producers 421 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: are Jessica Albert and John Parotti at Rococo, punch, Ty Trimble, 422 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: Mike Rothman and Jeff I's a Minute, Fatherly and Me 423 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: Chris Garcia, thank you for listening. Okay, wonder if I'm growing. 424 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: I'm wonder if I'm growing. You got me tearing up 425 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: over here, ken, I can't believe it.