1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 2: How can a beautiful young woman testify in her own 3 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 2: murder trial? 4 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 5 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation 6 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 2: and series exem one eleven. First of all, take a 7 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 2: list to our cut one. This is a nine to 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 2: one one call from the Franklin County Sheriffs. 9 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 3: Franklin Caning Sheriff. 10 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 4: That's going to help you. 11 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 3: Hello, what's the address? Okay? 12 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 5: Okay, I need you to stop. 13 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 3: Screaming so I can understand you. What is the address? 14 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 6: What's going on? 15 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 7: Nobody is on fire? 16 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 3: We already got to call them on the way. Can 17 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 3: you tell me who? Goodness? 18 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 8: Go here? 19 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 3: What did he do? What like gasoline? 20 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 9: What did he do? 21 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 10: Girl? 22 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 3: Sitting on the ground and here the police are there. 23 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 2: You're here, okay, and there's more. Listen to our friend 24 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 2: Less inside edition and are cut eighteen. 25 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 5: I mean, go to stop screaming because I can't understand 26 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 5: what you're saying. 27 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 11: The thirty three year old woman tried to break up 28 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 11: with Slager as they sat at a gas station outside Columbus, Ohio. 29 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 11: Judy pulled it from his car, Slager chased her, doused 30 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 11: her with gasoline, then litter into a fireball. 31 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 12: Judy's mom, Bonnie. 32 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 13: They told me that he had dolster in gasoline and 33 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 13: set her on fire. 34 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 2: And she suffered horribly. Take Us to Our cut nineteen. 35 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 11: Ever since that terrible day, Judy has been a patient 36 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 11: at Ohio State University Medical Center, where she underwent fifty 37 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 11: surgeries for burns covering eighty five percent of her body. 38 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 11: Her mother had to put on a gown and gloves 39 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 11: in order to visit. Judy's young daughters, Caitlin and Madison, 40 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 11: also had to put on protective gowns and gloves to 41 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 11: be by their mom's bedside. 42 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 4: Can Creak help my Mom Get made? 43 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 11: Judy allowed Inside Addition to air this video because she 44 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 11: wanted other abused women to learn from her experience and 45 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 11: seek help before it's too late. 46 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: Believe it or not, this incident caused her to be 47 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 2: in a seven month coma. Take Us to Our Friends 48 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 2: at Crimeonline dot Com and cut Ocie. 49 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,679 Speaker 13: When Judy Melanowski wakes up from a seven month coma, 50 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 13: she learns that she lost her hair, eyebrows, and eyelashes 51 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 13: in the blaze. Malanowski's face is skeletal, her ears completely gone, 52 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 13: along with most of her eyesight and several fingers. Her 53 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 13: arm amputated where it had been burned to the bone. 54 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 13: Burn experts estimated that with roughly ninety percent of her 55 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 13: body covered in third and fourth degree burns, Malanowski had 56 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 13: one hundred and ten percent chance of mortality. Doctors have 57 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 13: no medical explanation as to how Malanowski survived more than 58 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 13: a few hours. 59 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 2: Joining me right now in addition to Judy's mother, Bonnie Bowles, 60 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 2: Patricia Gillespie, director of the fire that took her on 61 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: Paramount Patricia, thank you for being with us. How did 62 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 2: this incident unfold? What happened? 63 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 6: Well, I think there were, you know, the consolation of 64 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 6: factors that keep women trapped in abusive relationships. One thing 65 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 6: that I think is very important to note in this 66 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 6: particular story and many women's stories the one and three 67 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 6: women who experienced domestic violence in this country is at 68 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 6: the most dangerous time for a woman is when she's 69 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 6: about to leave. And I think, you know, when Michael 70 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 6: realized that he was not going to be able to 71 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 6: maintain control of Judy, he sort of, you know, exploded, 72 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 6: He just escalated very quickly. And this was able to unfold. 73 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 6: But it is important to note that there was a 74 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 6: substantive history of abusive behavior from him that led up 75 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 6: to this, just nothing quite so extreme with us. 76 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 2: Is the director of the fire that took her, which 77 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 2: you can say on paramount plus. I want to go 78 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: to a very special guest joining us now, and it's 79 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 2: not just joining us. This is extremely painful for her 80 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 2: to discuss, but she is due doing it to make 81 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 2: her daughter's story known and to help other crime victims. 82 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 2: With me is Bonnie Bow's Judy Melanowski's mother, founder of 83 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 2: Judy's Foundation, and you can find her at Judy'sfoundation dot org. 84 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: Miss bos thank you for being. 85 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 7: With us, Thank you for having me. 86 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: Miss bos Is. 87 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 2: I have a son and a daughter, and it's very 88 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 2: hard for me to comprehend pouring in all my love, 89 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 2: all my time, all my energy, my thoughts, my heart, 90 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 2: everything into them, watching them grow up and then seeing 91 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 2: an a hole like Michael Slager take it all away 92 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 2: and such a brutal. 93 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: Fashion. 94 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 2: Miss Bo's when did you learn something horrible had happened 95 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 2: to Judy? 96 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 7: On a Sunday afternoon, I got a call from OSU 97 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 7: Hospital and I learned the hospital called and said, ask 98 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 7: me a strange question, was I'm Judy's mother? And then 99 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 7: they followed that question with did I have any objections 100 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 7: to putting her on a ventilator? 101 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 2: Oh, dear Lord in Heaven, Okay, hold on right there. 102 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 2: Miss Bo's doctor Tim Gallagher is joining US renowned medical 103 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 2: examiner for the State of Florida at pathcaremed dot com, 104 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: Lecturer Florida Medical School, Forensic Medicine, and is the founder 105 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:51,799 Speaker 2: and host of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference. 106 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 2: Dr Gallagher, when you hear that that someone's being put 107 00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 2: on a ventilator, what. 108 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 14: Does that well, Being put on a ventilator typically involves 109 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,559 Speaker 14: difficulty in breathing, so the patient cannot breathe on their own. 110 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 14: And in cases where fire is involved, you have to 111 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 14: understand that not only is the skin being burned, but 112 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 14: the victim is actually breathing in the heat, breathing in 113 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 14: the flames, and that's going directly to their lungs, causing damage. 114 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 14: So it's important that the person be put on a 115 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 14: ventilator to help oxygenate the body and to help get 116 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 14: the healing process going as soon as possible. 117 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 2: Did you hear how much a Jud's body was burned. 118 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 14: I certainly did you know? And in cases where over 119 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 14: ninety percent of the body is burned, the death rate 120 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 14: is somewhere in the nineties and ninety percent. It's very 121 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 14: unusual to have someone survive with this degree of injury. 122 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 14: I understand some of the burns were fourth degree burned, 123 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 14: some of it was charged with the skin was charred 124 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 14: down to the bone. 125 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: Dr Gallagher. I know this is your job. 126 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 2: Like often people can't make sense of, for instance, me 127 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 2: talking about homicide case and the circumstances surrounding it because 128 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 2: it's very cut and dried. It's hard for me to 129 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: take in what you're saying. I know this is your 130 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: line of business, but have you looked at Judy in life? 131 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: I mean a mom number one? How many children did 132 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: she have? 133 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 2: Bonnie two is correct, she's I'm looking at a picture 134 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 2: of her right now at Christmas with her two little girls, 135 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 2: one on either side. I love doing that with the twins, 136 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 2: the Christmas trees behind her, and she's beautiful with the 137 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 2: long brunette hair, the big smile, happy on Christmas Day, 138 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: and you're just really cutting through it. Dr Gallagher talking 139 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 2: about charring and fourth degree burns. 140 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: Could you just. 141 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 2: I know you don't need a bedside manner with your patients, 142 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 2: but could you ease me into this Dottor Gallagher Police. 143 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 4: Sure thing? 144 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 14: Okay, Well, we spoke about other reasons why she could 145 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 14: be on a ventilator, you know, and there's a lung 146 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 14: damage that goes along with being burned. There's actually swelling. 147 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 14: The body reacts by swelling, and some of that swelling 148 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 14: can occur in the throat area, which would limit the 149 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 14: amount of air that the victim can breathe in. So 150 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 14: the object is healing started as soon as possible. You 151 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 14: want to make sure that the body gets enough oxygen 152 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 14: and so that way the tissues can start to repair 153 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 14: process as early as possible. 154 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 2: What's a fourth degree burn as opposed to a third, second, 155 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 2: or first? 156 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 14: So a fourth degree burn is when not only is 157 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 14: the skin burned and the saw tissue underneath, but it's 158 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 14: also starting to burn now the tendons and the muscle underneath. 159 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 14: So the problem with a fourth degree burn is that 160 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 14: the nerves are burned, so this injury has no pain 161 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 14: associated with it. The nerves that are associated to bring 162 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 14: the pain to the victim are gone. Now they can't 163 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 14: feel anything, and so to them it doesn't seem as serious. 164 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 14: But it is quite certainly serious and does require extensive 165 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 14: surgical removal of the dead tissue and subsequent skin graph 166 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 14: operations to replace the skin that's lost if you have. 167 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: Enough skin to use for replacement. 168 00:10:46,760 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 15: She was burned over such a huge percentage of her body. 169 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: Time stories with me. It'sy grace. 170 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 2: Doctor Tim Gallagher joining us out of Florida. Why is 171 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 2: why would being burned in this manner put you in 172 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:15,839 Speaker 2: a coma? 173 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 14: Well, that's a very good question. I think what they 174 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 14: were put in was a medically induced coma and what 175 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 14: happens is it helps with the healing, but it helps 176 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 14: with the subsequent surgical procedures that she needs. Now. I 177 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 14: know she needed over fifty types of operations, and one 178 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 14: of those operations is skin grafting, and in her case, 179 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 14: because so much of her own skin was lost, they 180 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 14: needed to take skin from a donor a person or 181 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 14: perhaps even a cadaver skin. And those it's very difficult 182 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 14: to do that operation because you lean on that skin 183 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 14: or you lay on that skin, and that will not 184 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 14: allow the skin to so called take to the body. 185 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 14: So the person has to be in a coma or 186 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 14: sufficiently sedated so they don't turn and lean on that skin, 187 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 14: that new skin that they receive, and that skin can 188 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 14: start to take It's. 189 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 2: Very difficult for me to look at her smiling with 190 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 2: their two little girls in front of a Christmas tree 191 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: and hear you so clinically and correctly, doctor Gallagher describe 192 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 2: what she endured. Miss Bonnie bows is with us. This 193 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 2: is Judy Melanowski's mother, Bonnie. So you get this call 194 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 2: and they immediately say, are you Judy Melanowski's mother? And 195 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 2: can we put her on a ventilator? What you said 196 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 2: it was a Sunday. What went through your mind. 197 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 7: Well, disbelief. My first reaction was what a strange question. 198 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 7: I'm her mother, so that automatically sent a non comprehensive 199 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 7: of course, I'm her mom. And it didn't hit me 200 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 7: until I was driving to the hospital that that was 201 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 7: life support. 202 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 16: So then it. 203 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 7: Dawned on me that there was a real problem, and 204 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 7: I became It became a very difficult drive to get 205 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 7: there in Park you. 206 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 2: Know, I remember trying so hard to get from New 207 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 2: York to my father and making Georgia when they had 208 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 2: just put him on life support. I was out on 209 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 2: the street at midnight, holding the twins by their hands, 210 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 2: trying to flag a taxi, just trying desperately to get home. 211 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 2: And that ride you're describing to get to the hospital 212 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 2: must have been excruciating when you got to the hospital 213 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 2: and you saw your daughter. What did you see? 214 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 7: When I got to the hospital, they when she was 215 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 7: in trauma, and so I had to wait for about 216 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 7: six hours or longer before she was stable enough. But 217 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 7: when I was able to go in and see her, 218 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 7: I just seen my I just seen my baby because 219 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 7: she was alive, and that's what I was praying for 220 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 7: during that whole six hours. So I didn't see the 221 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 7: disfigurement and the burns and the swelling. 222 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 14: I just. 223 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 7: Was so relieved that she was alive, even if it 224 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 7: was from a ventilator. 225 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an interesting thing that you just said. I 226 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 2: want to go to doctor Chloe Carmichael, renowned clinical psychologists 227 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 2: joining us, author of a Nervous Energy Harnessed the Power 228 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 2: of Your Anxiety at doctor Chloe dot com. 229 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: Doctor Chloe, thank you for being with us. 230 00:14:59,160 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 17: You know. 231 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 2: And I see my husband. To me, he looks just 232 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 2: like he did when we met after college. He hasn't 233 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 2: changed to me. And here is this mom who stood 234 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 2: by her daughter through all this and Judy passed away 235 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 2: because of the fire attack on her. And when she 236 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 2: sees Judy in the hospital with this huge percentage of 237 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 2: her body burned, she says, she just looked like my 238 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 2: little baby. 239 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: What is that? 240 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 2: Because I know David has changed and Judy had to 241 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 2: look different in the hospital after this, as they said 242 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 2: on Inside Edition, being turned into a fireball. What is 243 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 2: that phenomena? 244 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, Nancy that it's such a deep question and there's 245 00:15:55,320 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 5: a couple of possible answers. Really, On one hand, it's 246 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 5: kind of a trauma protective measure, just like when we're 247 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 5: going through extremely difficult situations sometimes our brain actually almost 248 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 5: limits what it is that we're able to take it 249 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 5: in process because it's a survival mechanism to help us 250 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 5: to be able to get through a particular moment, to 251 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 5: be able to be with and engage, you know, with 252 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 5: her daughter without necessarily going into the traumatizing experience right 253 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 5: then and there of everything else that was being processed. 254 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 5: And then the other side of it as well, is 255 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 5: that it's kind of a through line there of that 256 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 5: fierce mama bear love that Judy was not only displaying 257 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 5: for her own children as she as she fought for 258 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 5: them and their future even through her last moments, but 259 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 5: Judy was also receiving that love from her own mother 260 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 5: in her moment. And you can hear me getting a 261 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 5: little choked up. It's it's it's so poignant. 262 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: Amazingly wild. 263 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 2: Judy is in the hospital after coming out of a coma. 264 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 2: She gives a statement and in effect ends up testifying 265 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 2: in her own murder trial. Take a listen to our 266 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 2: cut two. This is Detective Chad Kahagen speaking to Judy. 267 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 4: Can you hear me? 268 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 17: Yeah, my niece hear hers today. Okay, we're giving your 269 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 17: care of you. 270 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 8: You're in the hospital. 271 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 17: Okay, she has some burns, so I'm going to try 272 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 17: to keep you coming up on here. 273 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 8: Hey, are you hurting right now? 274 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 3: Okay? 275 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 4: All right? 276 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 17: Would you write someone asked you a couple of questions 277 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 17: about what happens? 278 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 4: Stay long, jud stay calm baby. 279 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 12: Detective Shagen Johanna can yarn me? Yeah, Judy? Did you 280 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 12: still gas on yourself? 281 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 11: No? 282 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 12: Did Mike still gas on you? Did Mike throw gas 283 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 12: on you? 284 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 15: Yes? 285 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 12: Yes? Okay, thank you. 286 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 2: Oh my stars, you are hearing that interview by Detective 287 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 2: Chad o'hagen, and it was also part of this incredible documentary, 288 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 2: The Fire that Took Her, joining me not only the 289 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 2: director of the Fire that Took Her, Patricia Gillespie, but 290 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 2: now famous detective Chad Gohagen, investigative lieutenant for the police Department. 291 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 2: He worked Judy's case. Detective, thank you for being with us, 292 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Detective Cohgan. I just can't imagine 293 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 2: what you did. Describe going in Judy's room and the 294 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 2: emotions that must have just overwhelmed you. Yet you kept 295 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 2: your head on, you managed to ask her questions, and 296 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 2: because of you and the strength of Judy Melanowski, she 297 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 2: was able to in effect testify at her own murder triumph. 298 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 18: Yeah, honestly, I remember that day like it was yesterday. 299 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 18: It was very overwhelming. We had a conversation with the 300 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 18: medical staff beforehand. They were actually bringing her out of 301 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 18: sedation to do a neurological exam to you know, to 302 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 18: check to see, you know, where she was where she 303 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 18: was at there. I spoke with some doctors and nurses 304 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 18: and asked them if they thought it was appropriate if 305 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 18: I could talk to Judy just a couple of simple 306 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 18: questions just to clear up some statements that Mike made 307 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 18: that that didn't really coincide with the evidence we were seeing. 308 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 18: On seeing. They agreed that three or four short questions 309 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 18: would would be okay. I remember I talked to Bonnie 310 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 18: about it to let her know that that's what was 311 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 18: going to happen, and I remember how calm she was, 312 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:21,719 Speaker 18: and I think you can hear it and her voice 313 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 18: in the video, how calm Bonnie was during that situation, 314 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 18: which I'm a father, I can't imagine. You know, you 315 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 18: guys have spoken about what she was going through. So 316 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 18: her calmness honestly calmed me down and helped me get 317 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 18: through that at that point in my career and since then, 318 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 18: as a police officer, we see, you know, unfortunately, we 319 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,440 Speaker 18: see a lot of human tragedy, but to that point, 320 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 18: and since I have not seen trauma to a body 321 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 18: that was still alive, Judy's strength was evident at that 322 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 18: initial interview, and then you know almost two years, how 323 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 18: her fight was for two years, So she showed strength 324 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 18: right off the bat and being able to answer my 325 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 18: questions even though you know, I could tell you know, 326 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 18: I was very close to her to make sure that 327 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 18: she could hear my questions. That the pain was evidence 328 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 18: on her face and her eyes. But she just kept 329 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 18: that inner strength through the whole ordeal and was able 330 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 18: to you know, testify on her own murder trial, which 331 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 18: was just amazing. 332 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 2: Detective I tried a lot of cases, a lot of felonies, 333 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 2: a lot of murders, and investigated you know, ten times 334 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 2: that many, but certain ones stay in my mind. I 335 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 2: imagine that this is one that stays with you. 336 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 18: It is, yeah, I don't again, it's it's something that 337 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 18: you know, our courts have never seen. I don't think 338 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 18: there's been any courts in the United States that's seen 339 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 18: something to this effect. You know, just the sounds, the 340 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 18: beeping in the background, just tearing that honestly, you know, 341 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,439 Speaker 18: somewhat church me and you know a little you know 342 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 18: PTSD that our PTS today that I have from that incident. 343 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 18: But it's it's it's just a credit to Judy strength 344 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 18: and then Bonnie strength. You know, I've said a million 345 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 18: times to Bonnie. Bonnie's you know, my hero. As far 346 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 18: as her strength of the whole case, she was an 347 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,959 Speaker 18: advocate for Judy from from day one. It was Judy's 348 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 18: strength that I think got her through the ordeal, But 349 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 18: it was it was really Bonnie strength behind the scenes 350 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 18: and therein day in and day out that that allowed 351 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 18: Judy to get well enough to testify and her own 352 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 18: murder trial and put Michael away for the rest of 353 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 18: his life, which is which is where he belonged to. 354 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 2: Take a listen to our cut five after you take 355 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 2: to Chad Coohagen meets with Judy in our hospital bed. 356 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:54,360 Speaker 2: Take a listen to the murder victim in her own words. 357 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 9: This is the speedway at three seventy six Aglar Road, right, Yes, 358 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 9: so you while he went inside, you got out of 359 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 9: the truck and went behind that speedway. 360 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 12: There's a bank there right, yes. And what happened is 361 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 12: you stood behind that speedway. 362 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 16: Make him in a matter of who knows him it 363 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 16: all around in this truck. He saw me and immediately 364 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 16: fland the truck in the park, got out, demand that 365 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 16: I got into the truck with him, clubbed me all 366 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 16: sorts of names. We argue for the five minutes and 367 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 16: then I threw my top. 368 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 2: On him and our cut six as GD continues struggling 369 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 2: to speak. 370 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 12: You threw a pop on him? Yes? Did you splashed 371 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 12: it on him or actually throw the top at him? 372 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:56,719 Speaker 2: Him? 373 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 9: And this cup was in a hard plat sick or 374 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 9: paper or what was it made out of? 375 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 17: I believe cut? 376 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 9: Okay, did the drink get on him? 377 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 12: What was his reaction to this? 378 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 8: Was extremely up at and. 379 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 12: What did he do? 380 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 16: He ran around to the other side of his truck 381 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 16: and he got uh. 382 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 8: You know, the back of his truck. 383 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 2: So he abusive throughout their relationship, tries to force her 384 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 2: back into his truck. They argue she won't get into 385 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 2: his truck with him. For another beating, she throws a 386 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 2: styrofoam cup at him, and his response is to go 387 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 2: get the gasoline cup from the back of his truck. 388 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 2: Listen to our cut seven. As Judy continues trying to 389 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 2: tell her story, it. 390 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 16: Was Yeah, he ran around with me and started gasoline 391 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 16: started out. 392 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 8: Of my head and warned his way down so got 393 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 8: in my throat. 394 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 16: She did that. 395 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 9: Really bad gasoline in your throat burnt really bad? Yes, 396 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 9: And what happened as a result of having this gasoline poured. 397 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 12: On you. 398 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 8: And then you know fire? 399 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 12: Well, let's slow down a little bit before that. 400 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 9: Did you remain standing or were you standing when he 401 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,200 Speaker 9: poured the gasoline on you? 402 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 12: When he poured the gasoline on you, were you standing? 403 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 2: She tried to run and he grabbed her and she tripped. 404 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 2: When she was running, he pushed her. She tripped. Take 405 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 2: a listen to our cut nine. 406 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 9: When you trip and you're following and you're laying there 407 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 9: holding yourself up on one hand, and he's pouring gasoline 408 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 9: on you. What's his demeanor as he's pouring the gasoline 409 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,719 Speaker 9: on you? 410 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 8: Evil? Just completely evil? 411 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 16: Not he kind of res funny to any of my 412 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 16: gris grow He won't tell me why. He just is like, 413 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 16: you want to throw something. 414 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 8: On somewhere, You want to throw up one and you 415 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 8: see what I'll do to you? 416 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 3: How do you like this? 417 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 8: And just all sorts of bother your names? 418 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 9: Okay, So Judy, was this a joking demeanor? You poured 419 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 9: something on me, I'm gonna put someone on you. 420 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 8: Hahah. 421 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 12: Isn't this funny? 422 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 14: No? 423 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 8: It would an evil demeanor? 424 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 2: And our cut tin as GV continues struggling to speak. 425 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 12: After he poured the gasoline on you, what happens next? 426 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 16: Evacuated from me for about thirty seconds, and. 427 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 19: I telling, so. 428 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 16: Please tell me and saw and I'll get I'll get 429 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 16: the truck. 430 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 8: I'll go with you. 431 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 4: You know, why did I and why. 432 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 8: Would you do this? 433 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 16: And I looked at him and he I robbed his 434 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 16: pocket and he started. 435 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 8: Walking towards me. 436 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 16: And I just remember kying of dating for help, and 437 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 16: he left me on fire and to look into his 438 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 16: eyes where his guys left. 439 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 8: Back literally after I was on fire. That's why I 440 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 8: was just turning black as. 441 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,719 Speaker 2: I streamed for his hel Miss Bose is with us 442 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 2: Judy's mother. When you hear her voice, what do you 443 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,360 Speaker 2: think my heartaches? 444 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 7: I hear her voice, it aches from our two year 445 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 7: journey that she suffered. When I hear her voice. 446 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 2: Jack Ohagen, who worked the case so tirelessly, when you 447 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 2: hear Judy's voice, what goes through your mind? 448 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 18: You know, you can hear the strength of of her, 449 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 18: you know, resolve to testify, h to speak to what 450 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 18: happened to her, that the evil that she saw that 451 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 18: day and was what a victim to that day. But 452 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 18: really for us it was it was such a powerful, 453 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 18: you know, tool and the investigative process that everything that 454 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 18: the facts were showing us lined up to what Judy 455 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 18: could now tell us in the case. Uh, seeing the video, 456 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 18: you know, talking to the witnesses, we had an idea 457 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 18: of what happened, but to hear it from Judy's uh 458 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 18: and Judy's own words just backed everything up and made 459 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 18: the case that much stronger. 460 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. 461 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 2: Joining me now is high profile homicide prosecutor Jarrett Farantino. Jarrett, 462 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. Jarrett. At the time 463 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 2: that this goes to trial, Judy Malinowski is no longer 464 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 2: with us. There are many ways a defense attorney can 465 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 2: try to keep Judy's own words from coming in before 466 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 2: a jury. 467 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 20: How Nancy, there are many ways, but here are the things. 468 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 20: They look at this historic case and say, what are 469 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 20: the guarantees of trustworthiness of Judy's testimony? What are the 470 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 20: guardrails that were put in place that her testimony was 471 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 20: locked in prior to her death, and the defense attorney 472 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 20: and the prosecution were given, as you know, Nancy, the 473 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 20: law says, a full and fair opportunity to examine Judy 474 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 20: her recollection of events. The defense attorney was given the 475 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 20: chance to cross examine her and test her knowledge and 476 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 20: memory of the case. Those guardrails prior to trial allowed 477 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 20: for her testimony to be secured and secured in a 478 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,479 Speaker 20: fashion that it would ultimately be admissible in a trial. 479 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 20: I've had that several times in a case. Never a 480 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 20: situation where you're recording the victim of a homicide. We've 481 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 20: had witnesses that have died. But the most important part 482 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 20: is that the defense has that opportunity to examine the 483 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,239 Speaker 20: witness and test their recollection. It makes it admissible at 484 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 20: that point. 485 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 2: Now, at the beginning, he was charged only with assault 486 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 2: and aggravated arson. 487 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: Listen to our cut three, I'd talk about what happened. 488 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 2: Okay, So whether Gorman under arrest or something? 489 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 16: Right now? 490 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 12: Yeah, you are under arrest. What if being chords, we're 491 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 12: going to be charged from Its just saw maggregated arsenal. 492 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 21: Okay, let me just be direct with you too, mikeel Okay, 493 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 21: where you where the where it happened at there's an 494 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 21: ATM right there, Okay, any ATM reports all the time 495 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 21: we had. 496 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 12: The tactics to go pull the footage, were reviewing the footage. 497 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 12: We've all seen the footage. 498 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 10: We know exactly what happened, kay, So we saw exactly 499 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 10: what happened. We saw you for gasoline over the top 500 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 10: of her head. She someone was sitting around. He lean 501 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 10: over and light her own front. 502 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 18: We saw what. 503 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 12: Happened, and we know what happened. Is this not the 504 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 12: way it looks so just taking to my attorney. 505 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 2: It's not the way it looks now. That was to 506 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 2: take to Chad cohagen speaking to the defendant. And we 507 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 2: heard it as well on the documentary the fire that 508 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 2: took her. Jack o'hagen is with us, tell me about 509 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 2: that ATM video. 510 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 18: So the ATM video we were hoping, we knew there 511 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 18: was an ATM there. We were hoping that it would 512 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 18: have caught some of what happened, if not the whole thing. 513 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 18: I ended up catching the majority of the argument, and 514 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 18: it caught Mike pulling, pouring gasoline on Judy. Judy obviously 515 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 18: stumbling around and then falling to the ground. Mike leaves 516 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 18: the frame then for thirty seconds, and thirty seconds later 517 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 18: he comes over, bends down and she erupts into flame. 518 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 18: Once we saw that, we knew that Mike's his initial 519 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 18: story that you know, his initial story was that she 520 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,479 Speaker 18: was pouring gas into his truck and poured some on her. 521 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 18: He tried to light a cigarette for her, and then 522 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 18: she went. 523 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 5: Up in flames. 524 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: Okay, well what his story was? 525 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 14: What? 526 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 18: So his initial story to our officers that arrived on scene, 527 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 18: he told him she was pouring gash into my truck 528 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 18: with a gas can, got some gas on her, and 529 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 18: then I went to light a cigarette for her, and 530 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 18: she erupted in flames. So that was his initial story 531 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 18: to our officers who arrived on scene. Once in the hospital, 532 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 18: he changed his story to, Yeah, I poured gasoline on her, 533 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 18: but then we made up really quickly in that thirty seconds, 534 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 18: and so I was going to be a gentleman and 535 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 18: light a cigarette for her, and that's how she that's 536 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 18: how she caught fire. The ATM video clearly showed that 537 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 18: that's you know, his story was not adding up to 538 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 18: what our witnesses had seen. And then also with the ATM. 539 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 2: Video show and I imagine he was hoping that she 540 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 2: would die before she could tell police what really happened. Listen, 541 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 2: so this. 542 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 9: Entire time, you're asking for help, But did you make 543 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 9: up with him in any way during these thirty seconds 544 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 9: between him pouring gas lean on you and blewing out 545 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 9: the lighter and setting you on fire? No, and did 546 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 9: you at any time produce a cigarette and ask for 547 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 9: a light? Okay, a matter of fact, did you have 548 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 9: any cigarettes on you? 549 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: I firmly believe now this. 550 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 2: Testimony from Gdi Melanowski was played at defendant's arraignment for 551 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 2: murder and ultimately pleading guilty. Because of this testimony is 552 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 2: played in open fort to you, Patricia Gillespie, why was 553 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 2: it so important to you to tell this story in 554 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 2: the fire that took her? 555 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 6: First of all, I'm a domestic violence deriver myself, and 556 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 6: when I found the story, I knew I needed to 557 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 6: make the film because it was a story I had 558 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 6: needed when I was going through my own struggles with 559 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,879 Speaker 6: this issue. In large heart, because what Judy did by 560 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 6: testifying is she she subverted this idea of the victim right. 561 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 6: A lot of times when we're attacked, we've become sort 562 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 6: of a passive victim in our stories. But Judy, even 563 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 6: from the lowest condition imaginable, didn't allow that to happen 564 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 6: to herself. She became the hero she had needed, and 565 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 6: I knew that was a voice a lot of other 566 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 6: women would benefit from, because I myself benefited from it. 567 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 2: To Judy's mother, Bonnie goes, what is your message today? 568 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 2: On behalf of Judy? You are her voice now to 569 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,280 Speaker 2: other domestic violence victims. 570 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 7: Judy's message was to turn from domestic violence victims. She 571 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 7: that you can overcome and you can get away, and 572 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,320 Speaker 7: her main goal was to, as Judy put it to 573 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 7: quote her, to help just one woman. She said her 574 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 7: suffering would not be in vain if she could help 575 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 7: just one woman had the courage to turn and walk 576 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 7: away and to get out, and that that was truly 577 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:08,760 Speaker 7: Judy's message. 578 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 11: I he. 579 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 4: I so, I don't mean to break down. I'm sorry. 580 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 4: I'm trying stillary to stay strung, but it's just alive. 581 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 4: It's so Harry when when he. 582 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 19: Isn't even rea more still for anything, Oh my gosh, 583 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 19: my heart break. 584 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 2: For those of you that need it or know someone 585 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:50,760 Speaker 2: who needs it. The Domestic Abuse Hotline one eight hundred 586 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,919 Speaker 2: seventy nine nine seven two three three. 587 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:56,439 Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,