1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:18,916 --> 00:00:24,836 Speaker 2: This episode contains explicit language. 3 00:00:25,436 --> 00:00:29,596 Speaker 3: You're listening to the smooth stylings of Patrick Charles Eugene 4 00:00:29,996 --> 00:00:33,796 Speaker 3: pat Boone, pop star of the nineteen fifties, host of 5 00:00:33,836 --> 00:00:38,636 Speaker 3: the Pat Boone Chevy Showroom, maybe the whitest, squarest rock 6 00:00:38,756 --> 00:00:43,116 Speaker 3: musician of all time. In nineteen ninety seven, Pat Boone 7 00:00:43,156 --> 00:00:47,516 Speaker 3: put out an album covering, among others, Judas Priest, Metallica, 8 00:00:47,996 --> 00:00:51,436 Speaker 3: Ozzy Osbourne, led Zeppelin, and Deep Purple. 9 00:00:52,636 --> 00:00:54,756 Speaker 4: Well, we all came down. 10 00:00:54,596 --> 00:00:55,556 Speaker 5: To the true. 11 00:00:56,516 --> 00:00:57,476 Speaker 1: On the lad. 12 00:00:58,956 --> 00:01:02,436 Speaker 3: On the front of the album, Pat Boone looks out maniacally, 13 00:01:03,036 --> 00:01:05,996 Speaker 3: or at least as maniacally as he can, wearing only 14 00:01:06,036 --> 00:01:07,716 Speaker 3: a black leather vest. 15 00:01:09,276 --> 00:01:10,956 Speaker 1: Exam, I am the mother. 16 00:01:13,276 --> 00:01:13,596 Speaker 6: Place. 17 00:01:14,036 --> 00:01:16,396 Speaker 3: You can find the whole thing on YouTube. In a 18 00:01:16,436 --> 00:01:17,996 Speaker 3: metal mood, no more. 19 00:01:17,876 --> 00:01:21,636 Speaker 7: Mister nice guy, I mean all great songs that he 20 00:01:21,716 --> 00:01:23,516 Speaker 7: was chosen and peckahol. 21 00:01:28,036 --> 00:01:38,396 Speaker 3: Fires, Pat Boone performed an act of cultural appropriation, outrageous 22 00:01:38,436 --> 00:01:42,676 Speaker 3: cultural appropriation. A square white guy, a middle aged crooner, 23 00:01:43,076 --> 00:01:47,956 Speaker 3: walked in and shamelessly appropriated the heavy metal cannon. Here's 24 00:01:47,956 --> 00:01:53,676 Speaker 3: my question, what should we make of that fact? How 25 00:01:53,716 --> 00:02:02,516 Speaker 3: should we feel about? In a metal mood? Yes, so, 26 00:02:02,636 --> 00:02:05,476 Speaker 3: I asked my friend Dave Hill. Dave is a metal 27 00:02:05,516 --> 00:02:10,716 Speaker 3: aficionado lead guitarist for Valley Lodge and Witch Taint, maybe 28 00:02:10,796 --> 00:02:14,156 Speaker 3: the most metal band name ever. If you root around 29 00:02:14,156 --> 00:02:16,956 Speaker 3: the internet, you can find some videos we've done together 30 00:02:17,036 --> 00:02:21,596 Speaker 3: over the years, which have literally hundreds of likes. We 31 00:02:21,636 --> 00:02:25,316 Speaker 3: go to the same coffee shop, say hello to Dave. 32 00:02:25,716 --> 00:02:25,916 Speaker 5: Well. 33 00:02:25,996 --> 00:02:31,676 Speaker 7: The Devil's Interval is the beginning of metal. Basically, it's 34 00:02:31,716 --> 00:02:33,236 Speaker 7: the flat at fifth. 35 00:02:39,516 --> 00:02:43,436 Speaker 3: I assigned Dave in a metal mood as homework. Listen 36 00:02:43,516 --> 00:02:47,396 Speaker 3: to it, break it down, report back to me. That's 37 00:02:47,716 --> 00:02:50,636 Speaker 3: how this whole thing began. At the time he puts 38 00:02:50,636 --> 00:02:56,156 Speaker 3: this out, he's sixty three. He's been a krooner. He's 39 00:02:56,156 --> 00:02:59,316 Speaker 3: an evangelical Christian. He's been a crooner for forty years. 40 00:03:00,476 --> 00:03:05,436 Speaker 3: He's best known for sporting like v Nex sweaters and 41 00:03:05,516 --> 00:03:10,156 Speaker 3: khakis and topsiders yeah, or not even top upsiders. Those shoes, 42 00:03:10,196 --> 00:03:13,636 Speaker 3: those those white box Yeah, that's what he does. 43 00:03:13,756 --> 00:03:15,316 Speaker 1: I like a nice white can you. 44 00:03:15,316 --> 00:03:19,956 Speaker 3: You couldn't have imagined a less metal pedigree than Pat. 45 00:03:19,796 --> 00:03:23,996 Speaker 7: Boonth No, he's pretty not metal, but it depends how 46 00:03:23,996 --> 00:03:25,116 Speaker 7: you define metal. 47 00:03:25,276 --> 00:03:25,796 Speaker 1: I mean. 48 00:03:27,236 --> 00:03:30,676 Speaker 7: Musically, no, but very metal in many other ways. 49 00:03:31,556 --> 00:03:32,916 Speaker 3: Tell me what you mean by just like. 50 00:03:33,356 --> 00:03:38,436 Speaker 7: As far as like committing to being a crooner? Pretty metal? 51 00:03:39,836 --> 00:03:47,876 Speaker 3: Did you catch that, Pat Boone? Pretty Metal? My name 52 00:03:47,916 --> 00:03:52,116 Speaker 3: is Malcolm Gladwell. You're listening to Revisionist History, my podcast 53 00:03:52,156 --> 00:04:06,676 Speaker 3: about things overlooked and misunderstood. This episode is the official 54 00:04:06,876 --> 00:04:10,196 Speaker 3: launch of my campaign to get Boon into the Rock 55 00:04:10,276 --> 00:04:13,916 Speaker 3: and Roll Hall of Fame. We're climbing aboard the Pat 56 00:04:13,956 --> 00:04:18,956 Speaker 3: Boone train. Why because if there is ever a cultural 57 00:04:18,996 --> 00:04:23,076 Speaker 3: figure who has been misunderstood and overlooked who fits the 58 00:04:23,276 --> 00:04:27,916 Speaker 3: literal definition of the Revisionist History mandate, it is Pat Boone. 59 00:04:31,676 --> 00:04:35,836 Speaker 3: You think I'm joking, I'm so not joking. What follows 60 00:04:36,196 --> 00:04:41,076 Speaker 3: is an argument in two parts. Part one, Pat Boone 61 00:04:41,676 --> 00:04:46,676 Speaker 3: no longer mister nice guy. Part two, Taco Bell. 62 00:04:54,836 --> 00:04:56,356 Speaker 6: It's very secure. 63 00:04:56,476 --> 00:04:59,916 Speaker 8: Got a wait for this top secret. 64 00:05:00,396 --> 00:05:03,476 Speaker 3: Taco Bell is so important to my defense of Pat 65 00:05:03,516 --> 00:05:07,996 Speaker 3: Boon that I traveled clear across the country to Irvine, California, 66 00:05:08,316 --> 00:05:12,236 Speaker 3: to the INTERN national headquarters of Taco Bell and talk 67 00:05:12,316 --> 00:05:16,116 Speaker 3: my way into their inner sanctum through double sets of 68 00:05:16,156 --> 00:05:19,916 Speaker 3: security doors, all sorts of scanning of ideas. I feel 69 00:05:19,916 --> 00:05:27,156 Speaker 3: like I'm in the CIA retinal scan exactly. They sit 70 00:05:27,276 --> 00:05:30,156 Speaker 3: me down. They ply me with one delicious bit of 71 00:05:30,196 --> 00:05:34,356 Speaker 3: fast food after another, including most memorably one of Taco 72 00:05:34,396 --> 00:05:40,716 Speaker 3: Bell's top selling concoctions. Then ny could chicken chilloupa. I 73 00:05:40,756 --> 00:05:41,196 Speaker 3: have not. 74 00:05:41,316 --> 00:05:44,476 Speaker 9: Nobody was asking for this because it wasn't even people 75 00:05:44,516 --> 00:05:45,916 Speaker 9: don't even comprehend this idea. 76 00:05:46,036 --> 00:05:47,076 Speaker 1: That's really what. 77 00:05:47,876 --> 00:05:48,636 Speaker 6: It's really good. 78 00:05:49,076 --> 00:05:49,996 Speaker 9: Yeah, but it is. 79 00:05:49,916 --> 00:05:51,956 Speaker 8: One of those things you could never sit with consumers 80 00:05:51,996 --> 00:05:53,676 Speaker 8: and they would say, you know what I would like, 81 00:05:53,796 --> 00:05:55,276 Speaker 8: I'd like you to make me this right? 82 00:05:55,676 --> 00:05:57,156 Speaker 3: Where do we know where? 83 00:05:57,316 --> 00:05:57,436 Speaker 7: So? 84 00:05:57,796 --> 00:05:59,596 Speaker 3: Do we know the idea where this came from? I 85 00:05:59,636 --> 00:06:08,796 Speaker 3: mean it's the Banana's idea. That Banana's idea came from 86 00:06:08,836 --> 00:06:13,236 Speaker 3: Talk Bell. Oh and it was good. Hold that thought. 87 00:06:13,916 --> 00:06:17,436 Speaker 3: We're coming back to Taco Bell, but first, Dave Hill 88 00:06:17,436 --> 00:06:18,836 Speaker 3: and I have some work to do. 89 00:06:27,516 --> 00:06:31,316 Speaker 7: I skipped right ahead to Holy Diver by Dio, and 90 00:06:31,356 --> 00:06:35,196 Speaker 7: I was really impressed with it because that song, the 91 00:06:35,276 --> 00:06:39,916 Speaker 7: original version, there's a minute in twenty seconds of just 92 00:06:39,996 --> 00:06:46,436 Speaker 7: kind of ominous like Middle Earth sounds. 93 00:06:57,556 --> 00:07:01,796 Speaker 3: Holy Diver might be the quintessential metal song. Dave Hill 94 00:07:01,836 --> 00:07:04,916 Speaker 3: considers it Ronnie James Dio's masterpiece. 95 00:07:30,316 --> 00:07:31,916 Speaker 10: Dive You've been. 96 00:07:31,796 --> 00:07:36,596 Speaker 7: Down Young in the Middes, so yeah, but even just 97 00:07:36,636 --> 00:07:39,636 Speaker 7: the pure balls to be like, I'm gonna make everyone 98 00:07:39,636 --> 00:07:43,996 Speaker 7: wait a minute and twenty seconds before I even smack 99 00:07:44,076 --> 00:07:46,956 Speaker 7: you around with one of the greatest metal songs of 100 00:07:46,996 --> 00:07:50,316 Speaker 7: all time. And then I was like, well, Pat Boone 101 00:07:50,316 --> 00:07:53,396 Speaker 7: doesn't have the balls to commit to that, but sure 102 00:07:53,516 --> 00:07:58,636 Speaker 7: enough he did. He did so right there, Huge fan. 103 00:08:14,876 --> 00:08:18,276 Speaker 3: Track number eight on in a metal mood, right after 104 00:08:18,316 --> 00:08:22,436 Speaker 3: Pat Boone's cover of Enter Sandman by Metallica. 105 00:08:22,516 --> 00:08:25,516 Speaker 10: Holy Diver, You've been down too long in the mid 106 00:08:25,596 --> 00:08:28,836 Speaker 10: and I see, Oh, let's become of me. 107 00:08:31,676 --> 00:08:34,556 Speaker 1: By the time you can see his strikes. But you 108 00:08:34,596 --> 00:08:35,236 Speaker 1: know where he's me. 109 00:08:35,956 --> 00:08:38,356 Speaker 3: Oh, don't you know what I mean? 110 00:08:39,796 --> 00:08:41,156 Speaker 1: You gotta get away. 111 00:08:41,436 --> 00:09:02,316 Speaker 3: Epic, simply epic. This concern with Pat Boone's legacy did 112 00:09:02,316 --> 00:09:05,156 Speaker 3: not start with me or Dave Hill. It started with 113 00:09:05,196 --> 00:09:08,276 Speaker 3: another friend of mine, Bruce Hedlin, my oldest friend in 114 00:09:08,316 --> 00:09:11,796 Speaker 3: the world, and that on the first day of first grade. Bruce, 115 00:09:12,076 --> 00:09:14,636 Speaker 3: the producer Rick Rubin, and I are now partners on 116 00:09:14,676 --> 00:09:19,036 Speaker 3: the Broken Record Music podcast, another epic Pushkin Industry's production, 117 00:09:19,356 --> 00:09:23,316 Speaker 3: which you should be listening to anyway. Bruce always had 118 00:09:23,316 --> 00:09:25,596 Speaker 3: a b in his bonnet about Pat Boone. 119 00:09:25,916 --> 00:09:27,796 Speaker 4: I went to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 120 00:09:27,836 --> 00:09:30,836 Speaker 4: in Cleveland, which I'd never been to, and I went 121 00:09:30,836 --> 00:09:32,676 Speaker 4: downstairs where it all kind of starts, and you see 122 00:09:32,676 --> 00:09:35,516 Speaker 4: these you see exhibits like the precursors to rock and roll, 123 00:09:35,556 --> 00:09:38,996 Speaker 4: and then you walk into what is probably the biggest 124 00:09:38,996 --> 00:09:40,156 Speaker 4: part of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, in 125 00:09:40,196 --> 00:09:42,876 Speaker 4: the most famous part, which is the Elvis section, how 126 00:09:42,916 --> 00:09:48,476 Speaker 4: Elvis basically founded rock and roll. And I was kind 127 00:09:48,476 --> 00:09:51,236 Speaker 4: of amazed. I went through it. I looked at all 128 00:09:51,316 --> 00:09:53,676 Speaker 4: these exhibits. All I could think of was, where is 129 00:09:53,716 --> 00:09:58,676 Speaker 4: Pat Boon? Now? Why would I be Why would I think? 130 00:09:58,676 --> 00:09:59,476 Speaker 4: Where is Pat Boone? 131 00:09:59,476 --> 00:09:59,636 Speaker 9: Well? 132 00:09:59,636 --> 00:10:05,516 Speaker 4: Pat Boone had an amazing career before Elvis, and in fact, 133 00:10:06,076 --> 00:10:08,196 Speaker 4: Pat Boone did a lot of the things Elvis did 134 00:10:08,236 --> 00:10:12,756 Speaker 4: before Elvis did it. I mean, just by raw numbers alone, 135 00:10:13,556 --> 00:10:17,596 Speaker 4: he was Pat Boone was on the top one hundred 136 00:10:17,636 --> 00:10:20,636 Speaker 4: charge the hot one hundred. I guess it's called for 137 00:10:20,756 --> 00:10:25,036 Speaker 4: I think two hundred and twenty consecutive weeks. That record 138 00:10:25,116 --> 00:10:28,236 Speaker 4: stood for I think close to fifty years. I think 139 00:10:28,276 --> 00:10:31,436 Speaker 4: the only people who've been on longer were Lil Wayne 140 00:10:31,596 --> 00:10:33,956 Speaker 4: and Drake. Lil Wayne Drake. 141 00:10:34,076 --> 00:10:36,356 Speaker 1: And Pat Poot and Pat Pat. That's your that's our 142 00:10:36,396 --> 00:10:36,876 Speaker 1: top three. 143 00:10:37,156 --> 00:10:37,356 Speaker 5: Yeah. 144 00:10:41,316 --> 00:10:43,396 Speaker 3: The nominating Committee for the Rock and Roll Hall of 145 00:10:43,396 --> 00:10:47,476 Speaker 3: Fame is made up of rock music insiders, serious music people. 146 00:10:48,076 --> 00:10:50,836 Speaker 3: They meet every September and have a day long debate 147 00:10:50,876 --> 00:10:52,716 Speaker 3: about the ten or twenty names that should be on 148 00:10:52,716 --> 00:10:56,516 Speaker 3: the ballot for the upcoming year. The whole thing is secret, intense. 149 00:10:57,076 --> 00:11:00,996 Speaker 3: There's lobbying, campaigning. I asked Terry Stewart about the process. 150 00:11:01,316 --> 00:11:03,316 Speaker 3: He ran the Hall of Fame for fourteen years. 151 00:11:03,436 --> 00:11:05,276 Speaker 5: You know, I had some people that weren't very nice. 152 00:11:05,316 --> 00:11:07,396 Speaker 5: People would back you against the wall in the corner 153 00:11:07,396 --> 00:11:10,956 Speaker 5: and motherfucker. You know, there's sort of all that sort 154 00:11:10,996 --> 00:11:13,116 Speaker 5: of stuff. So it would go a lot, it would 155 00:11:13,196 --> 00:11:15,156 Speaker 5: go it could go dark, but you know it's I 156 00:11:15,196 --> 00:11:16,956 Speaker 5: understand that it meant a lot to these artists, and 157 00:11:16,996 --> 00:11:20,996 Speaker 5: I try to explain that there was a very methodical process. 158 00:11:21,196 --> 00:11:23,996 Speaker 3: So then I asked him did things ever get dark 159 00:11:24,436 --> 00:11:25,396 Speaker 3: over Pat Boone? 160 00:11:25,556 --> 00:11:27,876 Speaker 5: There wasn't a lot of discussion about Pat Boone. 161 00:11:28,036 --> 00:11:31,716 Speaker 3: Has he never even made the ballot? No, he's never 162 00:11:31,756 --> 00:11:33,236 Speaker 3: made it out of that ballot that comes out of 163 00:11:33,236 --> 00:11:33,516 Speaker 3: the room. 164 00:11:33,596 --> 00:11:34,916 Speaker 5: Yeah. 165 00:11:35,036 --> 00:11:38,236 Speaker 3: Now, if you know anything about popular music, you'll know 166 00:11:38,316 --> 00:11:41,716 Speaker 3: why Pat Boone is persona non grata in Cleveland. It's 167 00:11:41,716 --> 00:11:45,316 Speaker 3: because he made his name during the nineteen fifties covering 168 00:11:45,396 --> 00:11:48,916 Speaker 3: black R and B songs. A handsome young white guy 169 00:11:49,516 --> 00:11:53,236 Speaker 3: just graduated from Columbia University, and his record company has 170 00:11:53,276 --> 00:11:56,196 Speaker 3: him doing these whitewashed versions of songs by people like 171 00:11:56,236 --> 00:12:01,316 Speaker 3: Little Richard and Fats Domino. For music officionados, the idea 172 00:12:01,356 --> 00:12:04,596 Speaker 3: of Pat Boone as a serious musician is offensive. 173 00:12:05,596 --> 00:12:08,916 Speaker 5: But it took a lot of hutz futter really even 174 00:12:09,276 --> 00:12:14,076 Speaker 5: bring it up, because of that feeling that you know, 175 00:12:14,156 --> 00:12:17,436 Speaker 5: he had stolen this music. The majority of the people 176 00:12:17,476 --> 00:12:21,396 Speaker 5: involved always felt fairly strongly that it wasn't appropriate to 177 00:12:21,476 --> 00:12:24,076 Speaker 5: have Pat Boone in the Hall of Fame. But that's 178 00:12:24,076 --> 00:12:26,756 Speaker 5: the way it all. X Y's he never made the ballot. 179 00:12:28,116 --> 00:12:31,596 Speaker 5: It was discussed, but never made the ballot. And that's 180 00:12:31,756 --> 00:12:33,516 Speaker 5: that's just the nature of the beast. 181 00:12:34,116 --> 00:12:37,196 Speaker 3: In other words, Pat Boone's album in a Metal Mood 182 00:12:37,476 --> 00:12:40,356 Speaker 3: is not some weird one off. It's what he does. 183 00:12:41,076 --> 00:12:44,596 Speaker 3: He wanders into someone else's world and he takes their music, 184 00:12:45,436 --> 00:12:48,156 Speaker 3: and that does not pass the smell test at the 185 00:12:48,236 --> 00:12:50,636 Speaker 3: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. But are they right. 186 00:12:51,316 --> 00:12:53,396 Speaker 3: That's what Dave Hill and I were trying to figure out, 187 00:12:53,716 --> 00:12:57,556 Speaker 3: which is why we sat in the studio together deconstructing 188 00:12:57,676 --> 00:13:00,236 Speaker 3: Pat Boone's cover of Holy Diver. 189 00:13:02,556 --> 00:13:03,716 Speaker 1: You can see his fights. 190 00:13:03,756 --> 00:13:08,436 Speaker 7: There's no reason see right away when deals things about 191 00:13:08,476 --> 00:13:11,956 Speaker 7: the tiger, You're like, that's a scary tiger, Pat Boone. 192 00:13:11,956 --> 00:13:15,196 Speaker 7: They're like, I'm not afraid of that tiger. Get over here, tighter. 193 00:13:15,836 --> 00:13:18,556 Speaker 3: I mean, so, what's he doing here with this song? 194 00:13:19,236 --> 00:13:23,356 Speaker 7: I don't know, like I immediately or like you hear 195 00:13:23,436 --> 00:13:25,556 Speaker 7: and you're like, hey, did you Has anyone seen the 196 00:13:25,556 --> 00:13:27,556 Speaker 7: guy with the chicken skewers? I wanted to get some 197 00:13:28,156 --> 00:13:30,716 Speaker 7: of those, do you know what I mean? Like it's 198 00:13:31,396 --> 00:13:36,716 Speaker 7: it's like it's sort of an early cocktail party, corporate 199 00:13:36,756 --> 00:13:38,116 Speaker 7: fundraiser scenario. 200 00:13:38,796 --> 00:13:44,756 Speaker 3: Pat Boone is the poster child for cultural appropriation. Now, 201 00:13:44,796 --> 00:13:47,836 Speaker 3: why does this make me think of taco bell? Because 202 00:13:47,916 --> 00:13:51,436 Speaker 3: taco bell is the same thing for food. The bell 203 00:13:51,596 --> 00:13:54,396 Speaker 3: in taco bell is not some reference to the classic 204 00:13:54,476 --> 00:13:59,756 Speaker 3: bell towers in Spanish colonial architecture Elle Campanario. No, the 205 00:13:59,796 --> 00:14:02,996 Speaker 3: bell in Taco Bell refers to Glen Bell of the 206 00:14:03,116 --> 00:14:06,716 Speaker 3: Iowa Bells, a white guy who in the mid nineteen fifties, 207 00:14:06,916 --> 00:14:11,196 Speaker 3: decided to open a fast food restaurant in San Bernardino, California, 208 00:14:11,596 --> 00:14:16,276 Speaker 3: Glen Bell's Tacos Taco Bell. It became a chain. Whenever 209 00:14:16,316 --> 00:14:18,796 Speaker 3: he opened a new restaurant, Glen Bell would hire a 210 00:14:18,836 --> 00:14:23,116 Speaker 3: mariachi band. On the cover of his biography, Taco Titan, 211 00:14:23,556 --> 00:14:27,116 Speaker 3: Glen Bell of the Iowa Bells is wearing a sombrero. 212 00:14:28,036 --> 00:14:32,036 Speaker 3: Glen Bell is Pat Boone, two white guys in the 213 00:14:32,076 --> 00:14:37,076 Speaker 3: mid nineteen fifties appropriating someone else's culture. So if we 214 00:14:37,196 --> 00:14:39,716 Speaker 3: have a Pat Boone problem, we should also have a 215 00:14:39,756 --> 00:14:43,516 Speaker 3: Taco Bell problem, which I'm not happy about, by the way, 216 00:14:44,036 --> 00:14:53,316 Speaker 3: because I love Taco Bell. That was my moral quandary. Okay, 217 00:14:54,116 --> 00:14:57,396 Speaker 3: So Laverne, We're going to start with Laverne Baker. I'm 218 00:14:57,396 --> 00:15:00,876 Speaker 3: sitting around my dining room table with Bruce Jacob Smith, 219 00:15:00,956 --> 00:15:04,836 Speaker 3: my producer, and Justin Richmond, the producer of Broken Record. 220 00:15:05,556 --> 00:15:10,196 Speaker 3: We decided to convene a cultural appropriation summit to figure 221 00:15:10,236 --> 00:15:16,036 Speaker 3: out who is the appropriate appropriator. Bruce o'was from rural 222 00:15:16,076 --> 00:15:20,676 Speaker 3: southwestern Ontario. Jacob a half Jewish, half Catholic millennial from 223 00:15:20,756 --> 00:15:24,356 Speaker 3: Long Island. Justin, a mixed race hipster from Long Beach, 224 00:15:24,436 --> 00:15:30,316 Speaker 3: California and me Jamaica, Canada, England whatever. I felt we 225 00:15:30,396 --> 00:15:37,316 Speaker 3: needed to cover as many bases as we could. We're 226 00:15:37,356 --> 00:15:40,556 Speaker 3: listening to Laverne Baker, an early R and B legend, 227 00:15:40,876 --> 00:15:43,596 Speaker 3: perform Tweedledee in nineteen fifty five. 228 00:15:58,156 --> 00:16:02,556 Speaker 1: Lady, all right, what's the other one? 229 00:16:02,916 --> 00:16:07,036 Speaker 3: Georgia Gibbs, which, by the way, if you do the search, 230 00:16:07,116 --> 00:16:09,996 Speaker 3: comes up right underneath it she Gibs. By the way, 231 00:16:10,036 --> 00:16:12,276 Speaker 3: Georgia gives his real name is FRIEDA. 232 00:16:13,116 --> 00:16:15,516 Speaker 4: Lipshitz, something like that Lipschitz. 233 00:16:15,076 --> 00:16:18,196 Speaker 3: From I'm assuming. Several years after, Laverne Baker does the 234 00:16:18,196 --> 00:16:23,756 Speaker 3: black version of Tweedledee, Georgia slash Frieda does the white version. 235 00:16:24,756 --> 00:16:38,076 Speaker 6: Tweet tweet D happy asking Ben is it's Jim many Jack? 236 00:16:38,476 --> 00:16:41,276 Speaker 6: You make my heart? Don't clay class. 237 00:16:42,676 --> 00:16:44,036 Speaker 7: Tweet tweet D. 238 00:16:44,476 --> 00:16:46,996 Speaker 3: All right, what's to compare those two versions? 239 00:16:48,716 --> 00:16:51,316 Speaker 4: Do I like the first one better? Yes? Are they 240 00:16:52,196 --> 00:16:53,156 Speaker 4: almost identical? 241 00:16:53,356 --> 00:16:53,516 Speaker 8: Yes? 242 00:16:53,676 --> 00:16:55,596 Speaker 4: Did she lift the arrangements? Yeah? 243 00:16:55,676 --> 00:16:58,156 Speaker 1: Of course second was not so bad. Actually I can't 244 00:16:58,196 --> 00:16:59,276 Speaker 1: you know, no, but. 245 00:16:59,316 --> 00:17:00,916 Speaker 4: It's precisely like the first one. 246 00:17:01,196 --> 00:17:01,436 Speaker 7: It is. 247 00:17:02,076 --> 00:17:05,396 Speaker 4: Laverne Baker actually famously had to take out flight insurance 248 00:17:06,116 --> 00:17:09,116 Speaker 4: once she was on tour, and she named Georgia Gibbs 249 00:17:09,236 --> 00:17:13,356 Speaker 4: as her beneficiary because she said, if the plane goes down, 250 00:17:13,516 --> 00:17:14,356 Speaker 4: her career is over. 251 00:17:14,476 --> 00:17:19,076 Speaker 1: Too amazing. 252 00:17:19,356 --> 00:17:22,676 Speaker 3: That is okay, so oh we agreed though. That is 253 00:17:23,036 --> 00:17:26,396 Speaker 3: if you want a definition of cultural appropriation, that's it. 254 00:17:27,076 --> 00:17:31,036 Speaker 3: Next we turn to Elvis. Everyone loves Elvis, right. Remember 255 00:17:31,116 --> 00:17:33,956 Speaker 3: the last episode of season three of Revisionist History where 256 00:17:33,956 --> 00:17:37,236 Speaker 3: I put Elvis on the couch and everything ended in tears. 257 00:17:37,836 --> 00:17:41,076 Speaker 3: I love Elvis well. In his early years, a lot 258 00:17:41,116 --> 00:17:44,476 Speaker 3: of Elvis' songs were written by a man named Otis Blackwell. 259 00:17:45,236 --> 00:17:47,916 Speaker 4: He is black He was a songwriter. He wrote probably 260 00:17:47,956 --> 00:17:49,916 Speaker 4: his most famous song is Fever, which was a Peggy 261 00:17:49,996 --> 00:17:53,636 Speaker 4: Lee song later Madonna song. But he wrote don't be cruel. 262 00:17:53,836 --> 00:17:56,596 Speaker 4: All shook up, paralyzed, returned to sender. 263 00:17:56,796 --> 00:17:59,716 Speaker 3: Here we are, Yeah, yeah, great ball's a fire he wrote, Yes, 264 00:17:59,716 --> 00:18:02,036 Speaker 3: wrote great balls fla he did, yeh, yep, Oh my god, 265 00:18:02,116 --> 00:18:06,196 Speaker 3: guys genius. Otis Blackwell writes the songs, then records a demo, 266 00:18:06,796 --> 00:18:10,836 Speaker 3: gives the demo to Elvis. Ready, this is Elvis doing 267 00:18:10,996 --> 00:18:12,556 Speaker 3: his version of don't be cruel. 268 00:18:13,676 --> 00:18:19,836 Speaker 7: You know I can't be sitting all alone if you 269 00:18:20,076 --> 00:18:20,636 Speaker 7: can't come. 270 00:18:22,396 --> 00:18:25,996 Speaker 3: Please, please tell the phone, don't be cruel. 271 00:18:27,516 --> 00:18:28,476 Speaker 1: Hard It's true. 272 00:18:31,636 --> 00:18:35,956 Speaker 3: Okay, that's Elvis. Now, this is Blackwell doing his version, 273 00:18:36,316 --> 00:18:39,676 Speaker 3: the version that came first. He's performing it on an 274 00:18:39,716 --> 00:18:42,596 Speaker 3: old episode of Late Night with David Letterman. 275 00:18:43,916 --> 00:18:48,956 Speaker 5: Alone. 276 00:18:56,156 --> 00:19:02,716 Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's the same song. As we're listening, 277 00:19:03,196 --> 00:19:06,276 Speaker 3: Justin puts his head in his hands. I'm sorry, that's brutal. 278 00:19:06,756 --> 00:19:09,036 Speaker 1: I forget how I forget how bad it is A 279 00:19:10,036 --> 00:19:11,676 Speaker 1: This is just Elvis Well. 280 00:19:12,316 --> 00:19:14,196 Speaker 3: This is the king of rock and roll, the singer 281 00:19:14,316 --> 00:19:17,316 Speaker 3: with his own vast, dedicated room at the Hall of Fame. 282 00:19:17,916 --> 00:19:21,036 Speaker 3: Now imagine how Otis Blackwell or any of the other 283 00:19:21,156 --> 00:19:24,356 Speaker 3: black songwriters of that era felt about what Elvis did. 284 00:19:25,076 --> 00:19:27,076 Speaker 3: They'd been asked to write a song for someone much 285 00:19:27,116 --> 00:19:30,556 Speaker 3: more famous than they were. Fine. What hurts is when 286 00:19:30,596 --> 00:19:33,036 Speaker 3: a so called genius takes the song that you wrote 287 00:19:33,356 --> 00:19:36,436 Speaker 3: and that came out of your cultural community and doesn't 288 00:19:36,476 --> 00:19:42,476 Speaker 3: change a lick of it. One Broken Heart for Sale, 289 00:19:43,156 --> 00:19:45,796 Speaker 3: a hit song written by Otis Blackwell for Elvis in 290 00:19:45,916 --> 00:19:46,836 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty two. 291 00:19:51,716 --> 00:20:00,916 Speaker 1: Excud is that Otis It's done might be Elvis demo 292 00:20:01,076 --> 00:20:03,036 Speaker 1: in and the Otis demo. 293 00:20:03,356 --> 00:20:08,836 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's Otis Blackwell. Did you guys think it was Elvis? 294 00:20:09,236 --> 00:20:19,676 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's Elvis Demoinda, Oh my god, that's 295 00:20:19,676 --> 00:20:21,396 Speaker 1: Alas black Wait. 296 00:20:21,676 --> 00:20:23,996 Speaker 3: This is a perfect illustration of what we're talking about. 297 00:20:24,276 --> 00:20:27,356 Speaker 3: We're listening to a song on YouTube that's supposed to 298 00:20:27,356 --> 00:20:30,036 Speaker 3: be by Otis Blackwell, and we have no idea whether 299 00:20:30,036 --> 00:20:33,476 Speaker 3: it's Otis Blackwell or Elvis, because Elvis is completely Yeah, 300 00:20:34,436 --> 00:20:37,876 Speaker 3: he's completely stolen the sky's sound. Maybe this is why 301 00:20:38,036 --> 00:20:40,196 Speaker 3: not everyone out there likes Elvis as much as the 302 00:20:40,276 --> 00:20:43,236 Speaker 3: Rock and Roll Hall of Fame does. People like Justin 303 00:20:43,636 --> 00:20:46,796 Speaker 3: a purist on some level. He feels like it's his 304 00:20:47,036 --> 00:20:50,756 Speaker 3: music that's being violated here. And immediately Justin brings up 305 00:20:50,836 --> 00:20:53,076 Speaker 3: Public Enemy and their frontman, Chuck D. 306 00:20:53,476 --> 00:20:55,316 Speaker 10: Because I feel like Chuck D is the reason Elvis 307 00:20:55,396 --> 00:20:55,876 Speaker 10: is so hated. 308 00:20:56,516 --> 00:20:58,276 Speaker 1: Yeah in black because. 309 00:20:58,396 --> 00:20:59,716 Speaker 10: Elvis was a here at the most, but it never 310 00:20:59,756 --> 00:21:01,276 Speaker 10: meant shit to me because he strayed our racist to 311 00:21:01,276 --> 00:21:03,396 Speaker 10: Suckle was simple and playing motherfucker men, John Wayne. 312 00:21:03,516 --> 00:21:08,236 Speaker 1: Elvis wasn't here. Elvis was here the most, but he 313 00:21:08,316 --> 00:21:23,316 Speaker 1: never meant shit. I'm proud most of my heroes don 314 00:21:23,356 --> 00:21:24,436 Speaker 1: a peeral, no stamp. 315 00:21:25,716 --> 00:21:28,876 Speaker 3: Oh hell, this let's take a break, and when we 316 00:21:29,036 --> 00:21:32,116 Speaker 3: come back, we're going to eat some more. Taco Bell 317 00:21:39,516 --> 00:21:42,516 Speaker 3: Glen Bell was born in nineteen twenty three grew up 318 00:21:42,556 --> 00:21:44,876 Speaker 3: in the Depression. It was a hobo for a while, 319 00:21:45,196 --> 00:21:48,276 Speaker 3: riding the rails, living by his wits. During the war 320 00:21:48,556 --> 00:21:51,196 Speaker 3: he was a steward for a Marine Corps general, and 321 00:21:51,276 --> 00:21:54,036 Speaker 3: when the war was over, he came back to San Bernardino, 322 00:21:54,116 --> 00:21:59,356 Speaker 3: California and decided to open a hamburger stand. At first, 323 00:21:59,876 --> 00:22:02,036 Speaker 3: tacos were just something that he added to the menu. 324 00:22:02,556 --> 00:22:05,196 Speaker 3: He'd eaten them in the Mexican restaurants of southern California 325 00:22:05,476 --> 00:22:08,116 Speaker 3: and thought they were the perfect fast food, easy to 326 00:22:08,156 --> 00:22:11,796 Speaker 3: make and eat, super cheap. Then he added refried beans. 327 00:22:12,436 --> 00:22:15,316 Speaker 3: Then he dropped the burghers and fries altogether, and after 328 00:22:15,396 --> 00:22:20,116 Speaker 3: a decade of stops and starts, he opened Taco Bell Tacos, tostadas, 329 00:22:20,436 --> 00:22:24,996 Speaker 3: Frijulaz burritos, all for nineteen cents each. By the late 330 00:22:25,116 --> 00:22:29,076 Speaker 3: nineteen sixties, Taco Bells are everywhere with a standardized look, 331 00:22:29,596 --> 00:22:33,076 Speaker 3: slumpstone brick which looks a bit like adobe red clay 332 00:22:33,196 --> 00:22:36,556 Speaker 3: tiles on the roof Bell Tower, Mexican food in a 333 00:22:36,636 --> 00:22:40,916 Speaker 3: building straight out of Mexico. Taco Bell is as bad 334 00:22:40,956 --> 00:22:48,836 Speaker 3: as Elvis, except have you ever been to a Taco Bell? 335 00:22:49,516 --> 00:22:53,956 Speaker 3: Where are the carnadas? They don't have carnadas, don't spill 336 00:22:53,996 --> 00:22:57,876 Speaker 3: the beer. Oh yeah yeah, way way way off the menu. 337 00:22:58,196 --> 00:23:01,836 Speaker 3: So you pekin, this is our. When I was in 338 00:23:01,916 --> 00:23:04,956 Speaker 3: the test kitchen at Taco Bell's headquarters, the question of 339 00:23:04,996 --> 00:23:08,236 Speaker 3: carnadas came up, and they said that, for whatever reason, 340 00:23:08,676 --> 00:23:12,436 Speaker 3: shredded me meat doesn't work for them. Or Molay. If 341 00:23:12,476 --> 00:23:15,076 Speaker 3: you were ripping off Mexican food, if you wanted to 342 00:23:15,156 --> 00:23:18,716 Speaker 3: be Elvis of Mexican food, you would have Molay. But 343 00:23:18,836 --> 00:23:20,636 Speaker 3: there's no mole at Taco Bells. 344 00:23:20,476 --> 00:23:23,636 Speaker 11: Or ras Basket Inspired and it's just not familiar enough. 345 00:23:23,796 --> 00:23:26,716 Speaker 11: And if it's not familiar enough, again in thirty seconds, 346 00:23:26,836 --> 00:23:28,236 Speaker 11: we can't make it familiar to you. 347 00:23:28,836 --> 00:23:29,996 Speaker 3: This is Renee Peshati. 348 00:23:30,076 --> 00:23:32,036 Speaker 11: We just can't, as much as we'd love to. 349 00:23:32,276 --> 00:23:34,196 Speaker 3: What's hard about moley sauce, for example? 350 00:23:35,716 --> 00:23:40,316 Speaker 6: Mole sauce, So first off, I think there's so many different. 351 00:23:40,036 --> 00:23:42,716 Speaker 3: Types, and this is Liz Matthews, head chef. 352 00:23:42,876 --> 00:23:46,436 Speaker 8: I think Molay in general, especially a red moley, it's 353 00:23:46,636 --> 00:23:49,236 Speaker 8: rich and earthy, and I don't think that's something that 354 00:23:49,356 --> 00:23:51,276 Speaker 8: people are familiar with. 355 00:23:51,636 --> 00:23:56,796 Speaker 3: Are ready another thing. We're the soft corn tortillas. Nothing 356 00:23:56,876 --> 00:24:00,196 Speaker 3: is more quintessentially Mexican than the traditional soft corn tortilla. 357 00:24:00,956 --> 00:24:04,396 Speaker 3: There are no soft corn toutias at Taco Bell. They 358 00:24:04,476 --> 00:24:06,916 Speaker 3: tried it once Mexican street tacos. 359 00:24:07,436 --> 00:24:09,756 Speaker 11: What happened we had we We're getting a lot of 360 00:24:09,876 --> 00:24:14,716 Speaker 11: calls from customers that they got a taco but the 361 00:24:14,916 --> 00:24:18,836 Speaker 11: shell was raw, the shell was uncooked. They had no 362 00:24:18,996 --> 00:24:23,036 Speaker 11: reference for a cornth or tilla that wasn't deep fried, like, 363 00:24:23,676 --> 00:24:25,756 Speaker 11: they had no idea what a soft fresh. 364 00:24:25,636 --> 00:24:28,636 Speaker 3: Corn or tia was all about. It was a crisis. 365 00:24:29,316 --> 00:24:32,636 Speaker 11: These were calls from Indiana. I mean, I just remember 366 00:24:32,756 --> 00:24:34,676 Speaker 11: they started streaming in. I'm like, oh my god. People 367 00:24:34,716 --> 00:24:37,596 Speaker 11: are worried that we're serving them uncooked food. There was 368 00:24:37,716 --> 00:24:39,236 Speaker 11: no reference for it whatsoever. 369 00:24:39,796 --> 00:24:42,836 Speaker 3: Now, the Taco Bell guys weren't upset by that reaction. 370 00:24:43,556 --> 00:24:48,156 Speaker 3: Their attitude isn't, oh, our customers have to get more sophisticated. No, 371 00:24:48,476 --> 00:24:50,396 Speaker 3: to them, it's just a reminder that they aren't in 372 00:24:50,436 --> 00:24:53,636 Speaker 3: the business of making real Mexican food. That's not why 373 00:24:53,716 --> 00:24:54,796 Speaker 3: people go to Taco Bell. 374 00:24:55,036 --> 00:24:59,916 Speaker 2: I don't think people want to see authentic for they. 375 00:24:58,516 --> 00:25:03,316 Speaker 6: Want the variations and different. I don't know that that's 376 00:25:03,436 --> 00:25:06,156 Speaker 6: just not us. That's not who we are. We're inspired 377 00:25:06,236 --> 00:25:08,396 Speaker 6: by it, but that's not what we're driven by. 378 00:25:09,116 --> 00:25:12,956 Speaker 3: Taco Bell is an interpretation of Mexican food, a riff 379 00:25:13,156 --> 00:25:15,876 Speaker 3: on Mexican food for people who don't necessarily think of 380 00:25:15,916 --> 00:25:19,556 Speaker 3: themselves as people who eat Mexican food. That's a very 381 00:25:19,636 --> 00:25:22,716 Speaker 3: different game, and a harder game, by the way, because 382 00:25:22,796 --> 00:25:25,956 Speaker 3: you have to find the familiar part of the unfamiliar 383 00:25:26,516 --> 00:25:30,196 Speaker 3: and somehow make it seem new. If you were the 384 00:25:30,276 --> 00:25:33,476 Speaker 3: Elvis of Mexican food, you wouldn't need a test kitchen, 385 00:25:33,516 --> 00:25:36,796 Speaker 3: would you. If you're stealing something, why would you need 386 00:25:36,876 --> 00:25:41,556 Speaker 3: to test it? You test what you invent. Case in point, 387 00:25:42,076 --> 00:25:46,516 Speaker 3: the naked chicken chiloopa. The inspiration came from Taco Bell's 388 00:25:46,556 --> 00:25:49,276 Speaker 3: Heather Motorshaw, one of the foods signed tots I was 389 00:25:49,356 --> 00:25:49,716 Speaker 3: meeting with. 390 00:25:50,356 --> 00:25:52,836 Speaker 9: I remember Heather said something like, Steve, what do you 391 00:25:52,996 --> 00:25:55,836 Speaker 9: think if we made you know, a taco shell out 392 00:25:55,876 --> 00:25:57,756 Speaker 9: of chicken something? And I'm like, well, what are you 393 00:25:57,796 --> 00:25:59,356 Speaker 9: talking about? It was sort of like, well, you know, 394 00:25:59,516 --> 00:26:02,996 Speaker 9: like chicken milonaise. So in my mind I'm thinking like 395 00:26:03,556 --> 00:26:06,276 Speaker 9: literally like chicken milonaise, pound it out, you know, chicken 396 00:26:06,316 --> 00:26:09,636 Speaker 9: breast and that flavor profile, thinking like you're Heather, But 397 00:26:09,716 --> 00:26:12,756 Speaker 9: what really comes out is, you know, she's probably onto something. 398 00:26:12,836 --> 00:26:16,196 Speaker 3: We probably they ended up with a white meat chicken breast, 399 00:26:16,756 --> 00:26:19,516 Speaker 3: deep fried in batter, molded into the shape of a 400 00:26:19,596 --> 00:26:24,876 Speaker 3: taco and filled with lettuce, cheese, tomatoes, and avocado ranch sauce. 401 00:26:25,516 --> 00:26:27,956 Speaker 3: Did you have difficulty kind of convincing people? 402 00:26:28,836 --> 00:26:30,756 Speaker 2: We couldn't even describe it to each other at first, 403 00:26:30,796 --> 00:26:33,716 Speaker 2: So how do you actually get that message across to 404 00:26:33,836 --> 00:26:35,476 Speaker 2: consumers so they're like, oh, I want to go in 405 00:26:35,556 --> 00:26:38,196 Speaker 2: and try that. I mean, that was a pretty a 406 00:26:38,276 --> 00:26:39,116 Speaker 2: pretty big feat. 407 00:26:39,596 --> 00:26:43,556 Speaker 12: But that was part of the conundrum because we originally 408 00:26:44,436 --> 00:26:48,676 Speaker 12: were talking about this as a Crispy Chicken taco, and 409 00:26:48,796 --> 00:26:51,636 Speaker 12: when you called it a Crispy Chicken taco, people were 410 00:26:51,756 --> 00:26:55,676 Speaker 12: expecting a taco shell, regular taco shell with a piece 411 00:26:55,676 --> 00:26:56,956 Speaker 12: of crispy chicken inside. 412 00:26:57,316 --> 00:26:59,996 Speaker 3: This is Heather of naked chicken chilupa fame. 413 00:27:00,316 --> 00:27:02,996 Speaker 12: So it wasn't until we then converted and started to 414 00:27:03,036 --> 00:27:06,356 Speaker 12: call it a chiloopa, which is on more premium taco 415 00:27:07,036 --> 00:27:09,036 Speaker 12: where consumers like, oh, Okay, I got it. 416 00:27:09,596 --> 00:27:13,716 Speaker 3: But even here they're making things up. In Mexican cuisine, 417 00:27:13,916 --> 00:27:17,516 Speaker 3: a chiloopa is a deep fried masa dough pancake shaped 418 00:27:17,556 --> 00:27:20,556 Speaker 3: to resemble a flat fishing boat. That's why it's called 419 00:27:20,556 --> 00:27:24,876 Speaker 3: a chiloopa. Chiluopas are basque whaling boats, small, wide bottom, 420 00:27:24,956 --> 00:27:28,436 Speaker 3: shallow sided. But in the Taco Bell universe, a chiloopa 421 00:27:28,716 --> 00:27:32,156 Speaker 3: is not a shallow boat anymore. It's a taco, a 422 00:27:32,276 --> 00:27:36,996 Speaker 3: high sided boat. And it's naked. You're calling it a 423 00:27:37,156 --> 00:27:40,076 Speaker 3: naked what's the meaning of the word naked in that context? 424 00:27:41,636 --> 00:27:43,996 Speaker 6: It didn't it didn't have the shell, So it's. 425 00:27:45,876 --> 00:27:46,276 Speaker 1: Okay. 426 00:27:47,436 --> 00:27:49,436 Speaker 3: So I was wondering, like, where are you guys going 427 00:27:49,476 --> 00:27:54,476 Speaker 3: with this? So what's interesting about this is that it's 428 00:27:54,596 --> 00:27:59,756 Speaker 3: it's really conceptually a step outside of the traditional Mexican food. 429 00:27:59,796 --> 00:28:02,556 Speaker 3: This is this is We're no longer it looks like 430 00:28:02,676 --> 00:28:09,396 Speaker 3: a taco. It's not a taco. It's something else. This 431 00:28:09,756 --> 00:28:12,516 Speaker 3: is not the same as Elvis and Otis Blackwell? Is it? 432 00:28:13,516 --> 00:28:17,276 Speaker 3: Elvis appropriated the song Don't Be Cruel and also everything 433 00:28:17,316 --> 00:28:22,116 Speaker 3: else otis Blackwell style vocal tics. Elvis stole the song 434 00:28:22,396 --> 00:28:27,796 Speaker 3: Soul Taco Bell appropriated the taco, but not the tacos soul. 435 00:28:28,636 --> 00:28:30,796 Speaker 3: They turned it into something that is about as far 436 00:28:30,916 --> 00:28:38,036 Speaker 3: from a taco as humanly possible. By the way, I 437 00:28:38,156 --> 00:28:41,276 Speaker 3: haven't even mentioned the craziest thing in the Taco Bell lab. 438 00:28:42,036 --> 00:28:44,516 Speaker 3: It's for the Indian market, but they cooked one up 439 00:28:44,556 --> 00:28:48,236 Speaker 3: for us. It's an Indian spiced potato latka in the 440 00:28:48,356 --> 00:28:51,676 Speaker 3: shape of a taco, filled with all kinds of delicious flavors. 441 00:28:52,036 --> 00:28:56,796 Speaker 9: Y spicy, it's yeah, this spice is a little bit 442 00:28:56,796 --> 00:28:59,036 Speaker 9: of a delay, so you might take a few bikes bites. 443 00:28:59,356 --> 00:29:00,356 Speaker 9: It's not spicy, and then it's. 444 00:29:00,716 --> 00:29:01,156 Speaker 1: I want to talk. 445 00:29:01,276 --> 00:29:02,836 Speaker 3: I have many questions about spice. 446 00:29:02,916 --> 00:29:03,996 Speaker 9: Yeah, Bluey, Justin and I. 447 00:29:04,196 --> 00:29:07,196 Speaker 3: You do you want me to feed you? Justin Justin 448 00:29:07,316 --> 00:29:11,316 Speaker 3: Richmond from the Cultural a Creation Summit. Alvis doesn't mean 449 00:29:11,356 --> 00:29:14,036 Speaker 3: shit to me. I brought him along as my soundtech, 450 00:29:14,516 --> 00:29:17,436 Speaker 3: but he was holding microphones with both hands so he 451 00:29:17,516 --> 00:29:20,596 Speaker 3: couldn't eat, and all this food was passing right under 452 00:29:20,636 --> 00:29:23,156 Speaker 3: his nose, and we were getting concerned about his state 453 00:29:23,196 --> 00:29:27,556 Speaker 3: of mind, especially the Taco Bell people. This was their 454 00:29:27,636 --> 00:29:31,076 Speaker 3: professional responsibility and they felt they were failing him. 455 00:29:31,516 --> 00:29:32,836 Speaker 6: So you want us to cut things up for you, 456 00:29:36,836 --> 00:29:38,876 Speaker 6: so you want me to hold the microphones in India? 457 00:29:39,476 --> 00:29:41,956 Speaker 3: And now I kind of have to take a foray 458 00:29:42,076 --> 00:29:46,556 Speaker 3: into the Dorritos locus Taco Taco Bell's taco where the 459 00:29:46,676 --> 00:29:49,596 Speaker 3: shell is made out of a dorrito, which turns out 460 00:29:49,636 --> 00:29:53,636 Speaker 3: to be this fantastically complicated engineering feet because you have 461 00:29:53,716 --> 00:29:58,116 Speaker 3: to simultaneously please the universe of hardcore Dorito's fans and 462 00:29:58,796 --> 00:30:01,716 Speaker 3: the universe of hard core Taco Bell lovers. Did the 463 00:30:01,796 --> 00:30:03,756 Speaker 3: lawyers have to get involved? There's like all this ip 464 00:30:04,076 --> 00:30:08,436 Speaker 3: going on between and Taco Bell, and I. 465 00:30:08,476 --> 00:30:10,796 Speaker 2: Think I can tell story, but I mean the story 466 00:30:10,876 --> 00:30:11,316 Speaker 2: really is. 467 00:30:11,676 --> 00:30:12,556 Speaker 6: There was a handshake. 468 00:30:13,436 --> 00:30:17,236 Speaker 3: The CEO of Frido Le and the CEO of Taco 469 00:30:17,316 --> 00:30:21,316 Speaker 3: Bell worked it out one on one. Taco Bell, born 470 00:30:21,396 --> 00:30:26,916 Speaker 3: of San Bernardino meets Doritos inspired by authentic Mexican tortilla chips, 471 00:30:27,236 --> 00:30:30,116 Speaker 3: but actually created in its current form as you may know, 472 00:30:30,596 --> 00:30:32,116 Speaker 3: at a restaurant in Disneyland. 473 00:30:32,716 --> 00:30:35,716 Speaker 8: They did a handshake because they knew if we got 474 00:30:35,796 --> 00:30:37,156 Speaker 8: everybody involved, we would. 475 00:30:37,036 --> 00:30:39,796 Speaker 6: Never get this idea out the door. And knew we 476 00:30:39,876 --> 00:30:42,396 Speaker 6: had this magical thing, and we knew that that would 477 00:30:42,396 --> 00:30:42,756 Speaker 6: not happen. 478 00:30:42,796 --> 00:30:45,076 Speaker 3: It was like a summit, did they like meet in 479 00:30:45,196 --> 00:30:46,076 Speaker 3: some secret location. 480 00:30:46,596 --> 00:30:48,556 Speaker 6: All the lawyers were like, what did you guys do? 481 00:30:48,796 --> 00:30:50,996 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, probably got a golf course. Let's be honest. 482 00:30:51,236 --> 00:30:53,036 Speaker 6: Yeah, maybe. 483 00:30:56,076 --> 00:31:00,916 Speaker 3: Taco Bell is not Elvis. Elvis could never have pulled 484 00:31:00,956 --> 00:31:21,676 Speaker 3: off the Doritos Locos Taco. I can't go on without 485 00:31:21,716 --> 00:31:25,196 Speaker 3: one more moment from our cultural appropriation summit when we 486 00:31:25,396 --> 00:31:28,916 Speaker 3: finally got to the matter at hand, what's the best Pat. 487 00:31:28,836 --> 00:31:30,876 Speaker 4: Boon touty fruity? 488 00:31:31,356 --> 00:31:33,716 Speaker 3: Just do the two touty fruity. So we'll start with 489 00:31:33,756 --> 00:31:37,756 Speaker 3: Little Richard's tooty fruity. But the best tooty fruity fact 490 00:31:37,796 --> 00:31:41,196 Speaker 3: I learned recently was that it's originally tooty fruity. Good 491 00:31:41,276 --> 00:31:54,076 Speaker 3: booty boy Blah, Pat Boom comes along the boy wonder 492 00:31:54,716 --> 00:31:56,236 Speaker 3: and should we should we do the lot? 493 00:31:56,316 --> 00:31:56,716 Speaker 1: We have a lot. 494 00:31:56,756 --> 00:31:59,316 Speaker 3: It's a live version of him. Let's go the live 495 00:31:59,396 --> 00:32:03,036 Speaker 3: version just for fun. It's an old performance on Canadian 496 00:32:03,116 --> 00:32:06,316 Speaker 3: television from the nineteen fifties. Pat Boom looks like he 497 00:32:06,396 --> 00:32:09,636 Speaker 3: flew in straight from a boy Scout jamboree. The video 498 00:32:09,916 --> 00:32:13,036 Speaker 3: begins with a title card, so the caption like pouring 499 00:32:13,236 --> 00:32:14,476 Speaker 3: cream into coffee. 500 00:32:15,036 --> 00:32:15,876 Speaker 1: Oh, this is so good. 501 00:32:16,236 --> 00:32:20,556 Speaker 3: Pat Boon lightened and sweetened R and B, and he 502 00:32:20,716 --> 00:32:23,756 Speaker 3: made a smoothie out of tooty fruity. 503 00:32:26,356 --> 00:32:40,556 Speaker 7: Calf. All right, here's the gal that I love. 504 00:32:42,236 --> 00:32:48,516 Speaker 3: Here's a gal that I love best, which fruity completely. 505 00:32:49,796 --> 00:32:52,756 Speaker 4: He doesn't he doesn't go behind the men. 506 00:32:53,396 --> 00:32:55,476 Speaker 1: That's that's really the that's what all of them have done. 507 00:32:55,516 --> 00:32:57,836 Speaker 10: By the way, all the white versions have simplified the beat, 508 00:32:58,116 --> 00:32:59,996 Speaker 10: like the beat is feels a little more dense, a 509 00:33:00,036 --> 00:33:03,796 Speaker 10: little more complex in the black versions and the white version. 510 00:33:03,876 --> 00:33:06,196 Speaker 10: It's like this is the one, two three four that 511 00:33:06,316 --> 00:33:07,156 Speaker 10: you can't miss it. 512 00:33:07,516 --> 00:33:11,756 Speaker 3: You know, Pat Boon not copy Touty Fruity. He made 513 00:33:11,796 --> 00:33:15,876 Speaker 3: a smoothiet of Touty Fruity. Years later, Little Richard did 514 00:33:15,956 --> 00:33:19,236 Speaker 3: an interview with the music journalist Joe Smith. He wasn't 515 00:33:19,316 --> 00:33:20,476 Speaker 3: happy what he would do. 516 00:33:20,556 --> 00:33:22,316 Speaker 4: He would take over the pop stations and it would 517 00:33:22,396 --> 00:33:23,276 Speaker 4: kill me costing over. 518 00:33:23,636 --> 00:33:26,316 Speaker 10: And see, it would kill me costing overcause he would 519 00:33:26,396 --> 00:33:28,076 Speaker 10: kill me because the white station will play him. 520 00:33:28,116 --> 00:33:29,836 Speaker 12: He wouldn't blame me. And so when you go in 521 00:33:29,876 --> 00:33:32,316 Speaker 12: the record stop, you could find his, you can find mine. 522 00:33:32,916 --> 00:33:36,196 Speaker 3: But Little Richard says that later he changed his mind. 523 00:33:36,876 --> 00:33:37,716 Speaker 8: But really be true. 524 00:33:37,756 --> 00:33:39,316 Speaker 5: When I look back over, it was a blessing and 525 00:33:39,436 --> 00:33:42,356 Speaker 5: a lesson because he opened doors for us. He made 526 00:33:42,396 --> 00:33:46,036 Speaker 5: the white kids more aware of me, and because they 527 00:33:46,036 --> 00:33:48,316 Speaker 5: won't my version of it. That's what he says, I've 528 00:33:48,316 --> 00:33:50,116 Speaker 5: been He says I opened some doors. 529 00:33:50,236 --> 00:33:51,716 Speaker 4: He opened a whole out of doors. 530 00:33:52,076 --> 00:33:54,436 Speaker 1: Yes, and oh he's a beautiful person. 531 00:33:54,956 --> 00:33:58,676 Speaker 3: When it works, cultural appropriation serves as the basis for 532 00:33:58,796 --> 00:34:02,356 Speaker 3: something new, but it also widens the audience for the 533 00:34:02,476 --> 00:34:06,676 Speaker 3: real thing. It's the way the original, authentic idea moves 534 00:34:06,796 --> 00:34:10,076 Speaker 3: into the mainstream. That's what my friend Bruce has been 535 00:34:10,076 --> 00:34:10,756 Speaker 3: trying to tell us. 536 00:34:11,436 --> 00:34:14,836 Speaker 4: The contrast chairs with Elvis. I'm not blaming Elvis directly, 537 00:34:15,676 --> 00:34:20,676 Speaker 4: but he did a version of hound Dog. Big Mama 538 00:34:20,716 --> 00:34:25,756 Speaker 4: Thornton didn't then crash the pop charts afterwards with her 539 00:34:25,916 --> 00:34:26,716 Speaker 4: version of hound. 540 00:34:26,556 --> 00:34:28,996 Speaker 3: Dog or because there was no room for it, because 541 00:34:28,996 --> 00:34:30,996 Speaker 3: he'd already he did it so well, there was no 542 00:34:31,076 --> 00:34:32,516 Speaker 3: reason to go back and do the original. 543 00:34:32,676 --> 00:34:35,356 Speaker 4: Yes, And that's what I th That's essentially the distinction 544 00:34:35,436 --> 00:34:40,676 Speaker 4: I'm making, which is, you know, if if Elvis Presley 545 00:34:40,756 --> 00:34:42,916 Speaker 4: is the Columbus, you know Pat Boone is the guy 546 00:34:42,916 --> 00:34:45,716 Speaker 4: who landed in the New World and then went back 547 00:34:45,756 --> 00:34:47,916 Speaker 4: to Europe and said we should make friends with these guys. 548 00:34:48,276 --> 00:34:51,316 Speaker 4: They've got great tobacco. He didn't show up and saying 549 00:34:51,396 --> 00:34:52,516 Speaker 4: I'm taking over the content. 550 00:34:52,996 --> 00:34:56,676 Speaker 3: He's John the Baptist, whereas Elvis pretends to be Jesus. 551 00:34:57,116 --> 00:35:00,876 Speaker 3: Alvis says I'm the risen Lord. Pat Boon's not pretending 552 00:35:00,916 --> 00:35:03,236 Speaker 3: to be the risen Lord. He's like, I'm just the 553 00:35:03,316 --> 00:35:05,076 Speaker 3: guy preparing the way for the risen Lord. 554 00:35:05,596 --> 00:35:07,996 Speaker 4: He is John the Baptist, John the Baptist and Taco 555 00:35:08,076 --> 00:35:09,636 Speaker 4: Bell same time. 556 00:35:10,156 --> 00:35:12,876 Speaker 3: Pat Boone, John the Baptist. 557 00:35:12,956 --> 00:35:15,356 Speaker 4: Is handsome, wholesome. He's really handsome. 558 00:35:15,356 --> 00:35:15,836 Speaker 1: He's a wholesome. 559 00:35:15,836 --> 00:35:17,276 Speaker 4: He's a really nice guy. There he is running to 560 00:35:17,316 --> 00:35:18,036 Speaker 4: his mark right now. 561 00:35:18,476 --> 00:35:20,276 Speaker 3: I think he's a nice guy, Ladies. 562 00:35:20,076 --> 00:35:21,636 Speaker 7: And gentleman, Pat Boone. 563 00:35:25,356 --> 00:35:28,796 Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety seven, at the height of his metal period, 564 00:35:29,436 --> 00:35:32,036 Speaker 3: Pat Boone went on the Easter Seal telephone. 565 00:35:34,316 --> 00:35:39,036 Speaker 1: I got a bad reputation. You want and I don't 566 00:35:39,196 --> 00:35:39,676 Speaker 1: know why. 567 00:35:41,476 --> 00:35:43,156 Speaker 3: I rushed my hair, I rushed my teeth. 568 00:35:43,236 --> 00:35:44,236 Speaker 1: I go to church. 569 00:35:45,596 --> 00:35:46,436 Speaker 10: I'm a really. 570 00:35:46,436 --> 00:35:54,156 Speaker 3: Sweet, nice guy. You're trying to tell me he doesn't 571 00:35:54,196 --> 00:35:58,876 Speaker 3: belong in the Hall of Fame. I used to be 572 00:35:59,196 --> 00:36:02,636 Speaker 3: such a sweet, sweet thing till they got a Let's 573 00:36:02,716 --> 00:36:06,356 Speaker 3: make this happen, people, Let's get Pat Boone on the ballot. 574 00:36:06,876 --> 00:36:12,796 Speaker 3: Info at rockhall dot org. That's info at rockhall dot org. 575 00:36:13,636 --> 00:36:15,716 Speaker 3: Then crank up a little in a metal mood on 576 00:36:15,796 --> 00:36:19,236 Speaker 3: your phone, order a naked chicken jaloopa at the nearest 577 00:36:19,276 --> 00:36:22,316 Speaker 3: Taco Bell, and ask yourself if the world is in 578 00:36:22,436 --> 00:36:25,716 Speaker 3: a better place with the right kind of cultural appropriation. 579 00:36:26,556 --> 00:36:34,516 Speaker 1: Lou waw, mister nice guy, they say, day you would see. 580 00:36:38,876 --> 00:36:42,076 Speaker 3: Revisionist History is produced by Mila Bell and Jacob Smith 581 00:36:42,476 --> 00:36:46,876 Speaker 3: with Camille Baptista. Our editor is Julia Barton. Flon Williams 582 00:36:47,076 --> 00:36:51,316 Speaker 3: is our engineer. Fact checking by Beth Johnson. Original music 583 00:36:51,356 --> 00:36:55,636 Speaker 3: by Luis Guerra. Special thanks to Carlene Migliori, Head Fein, 584 00:36:56,196 --> 00:37:01,596 Speaker 3: Maggie Taylor, Maya Knigg, Jason Gambrel, and Jacob Weisberg. Oh 585 00:37:02,036 --> 00:37:05,196 Speaker 3: and Justin Richmond, who turned down Taco Bell in the 586 00:37:05,276 --> 00:37:08,956 Speaker 3: service of his duty, and Bruce Hadlam, the brains behind 587 00:37:09,196 --> 00:37:13,396 Speaker 3: this particular operation. Revisionist History is brought to you by 588 00:37:13,596 --> 00:37:29,236 Speaker 3: Pushkin Industries. I'm Malcolm Godlong, what I'm coming back to 589 00:37:29,316 --> 00:37:35,036 Speaker 3: Pat Boone? So he takes an absolutely iconic song. 590 00:37:35,716 --> 00:37:36,516 Speaker 1: And he does this. 591 00:37:38,076 --> 00:37:41,556 Speaker 3: Jazz lounge. Yeah, can you give us a can you 592 00:37:41,756 --> 00:37:43,516 Speaker 3: try a little bit of a jazz loungee? 593 00:37:44,316 --> 00:37:45,156 Speaker 1: Holy dive? 594 00:37:45,836 --> 00:37:47,396 Speaker 7: You've been down to see now? 595 00:37:47,716 --> 00:37:47,876 Speaker 8: You know? 596 00:37:48,436 --> 00:37:51,676 Speaker 7: Where as I attempt to do it, I'm also showing 597 00:37:51,676 --> 00:37:54,236 Speaker 7: you what's great about Pat Boone because I can't emulate 598 00:37:55,276 --> 00:37:59,876 Speaker 7: just the swagger and you know that you can tell 599 00:37:59,956 --> 00:38:01,316 Speaker 7: you like, he's got a bit of a tan. 600 00:38:01,516 --> 00:38:02,756 Speaker 1: You can hear it in his voice. 601 00:38:02,996 --> 00:38:08,596 Speaker 7: Yeah, you've been down too long in the men not see. Oh, 602 00:38:09,316 --> 00:38:13,156 Speaker 7: come in with me and see I've just got taken it, 603 00:38:14,516 --> 00:38:14,676 Speaker 7: you know. 604 00:38:14,796 --> 00:38:19,596 Speaker 13: Now we're at a coffeehouse on some sp fun So 605 00:38:19,916 --> 00:38:24,276 Speaker 13: what this is interesting, what he's done is not it's 606 00:38:24,356 --> 00:38:25,636 Speaker 13: not a trivial accomplishment. 607 00:38:26,356 --> 00:38:29,116 Speaker 3: No, there's some there, there's a there's a degree of 608 00:38:29,156 --> 00:38:31,916 Speaker 3: difficulty in what he's done here. Oh yeah, no, one can. 609 00:38:31,996 --> 00:38:33,956 Speaker 3: You can't walk in off the street and do Pat Boon. 610 00:38:34,316 --> 00:38:38,756 Speaker 7: No, No, you'd be a fool. You know, as as 611 00:38:38,836 --> 00:38:40,436 Speaker 7: much as you'd be a fool to think you could 612 00:38:40,436 --> 00:38:44,196 Speaker 7: do a d o, you'd be as as maybe as 613 00:38:44,316 --> 00:38:46,276 Speaker 7: much a fool to think you can do Pat phone