1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. It's been a tough 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: stretch for Boeing, and this week's earnings made that clear. 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 2: The last year especially, has been like something out of 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 2: the book of job. From a corporate perspective, just really 5 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 2: felt like everything that could go wrong did go wrong. 6 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Julie Johnson is a senior aerospace reporter for Bloomberg. 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 2: It started with a panel blowing out of an Alaska 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,840 Speaker 2: Airline seven thirty seven, just moments after it had taken off. 9 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 2: Photo show a gaping hole where an emergency door could be. 10 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 2: But I think it really highlighted the quality breakdowns at 11 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 2: Boeing because the plane had just come out of Boeing's 12 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 2: factory like two months earlier, so it's brand new. 13 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: Federal air safety officials say bolts on a Boying jetliner 14 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: were missing. 15 00:00:55,200 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: It sort of precipitated a series of investigations. Boeing's managed 16 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: had a big shake up. 17 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: Boeing said it would reduce its workforce by ten percent 18 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: as it tries to recover from financial and regulatory troubles, 19 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: and Boeing brought in a new CEO, Kelly Ortberg, with 20 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: a mandate to turn things around. Ortberg now finds himself 21 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: at the helm of a storied American manufacturer, entering twenty 22 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: twenty five with a chessboard of challenges, a new earnings 23 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: report on Tuesday that paints a grim picture of its finances, 24 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: an uphill battle to regain public trust, and a tightrope 25 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: act in Washington that will force it to work with 26 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: one of its biggest rivals, Elon Musk, and President Trump himself. 27 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: I'm David Gera, and this is the big take from 28 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News today. On the show Boeing needs to turn 29 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: things around? Can it pull it off? And how might 30 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: President Trump's return make things even more complicated. 31 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 2: Something I think people don't appreciate about Trump is that 32 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:01,559 Speaker 2: he's a plane guy. 33 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Julie Johnson says President Trump may like aviation, but 34 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: he especially likes Boeing. He's mostly used Boeing planes in 35 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: his private fleet for years, but when Trump became president 36 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, he found himself in the middle of 37 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: the US government's relationship with the plane maker. For Boeing, 38 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: the US government is not just a regulator, it's also 39 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: one of the company's marquee customers. Boeing supplies its aircraft 40 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: to the Postal Service, to NASA, and the military. It 41 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: also manufactures the planes that presidents use to travel all 42 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: over the world. Every president since FDR has flown on 43 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: a Boeing plane, but the current models are a little outdated. 44 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 2: The Air Force one planes have been flying around, I 45 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 2: think since the George Bush administration, so they're due for replacement. 46 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: During his first term, President Trump helped negotiate a contract 47 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: with Boeing to upgrade the Air Force one fleet with 48 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: revamped seven forty seven jets. He's proud of the deal 49 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: and even brought it up in an interview with Bloomberg's 50 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: editor in chief John Micklethway last October. 51 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 3: So I'm getting think of this the exact same plane 52 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 3: for one point seven billion, less exact except to have 53 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 3: a better pay job. Okay, much better pay job. 54 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 2: Trump cares about these Air Force aircraft honestly, like nobody 55 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: else on the planet. He's highly invested in these planes. 56 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 2: He kept models on his desk at mar Lago when 57 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 2: he was out of office. 58 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: Boeen was supposed to get these upgraded Air Force one 59 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: jets into the sky by twenty twenty four, but the 60 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: project is years behind schedule and two point seven billion 61 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: dollars over budget. It's a reflection of the many problems 62 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: the company has faced in recent years. But Boeing's new CEO, 63 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: Kelly Ortberg, knows that getting these planes in shape is 64 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: a top priority because they matter to Trump. 65 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 2: One of the first things that Ortberg did after Trump 66 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 2: was elected was set up some phone conversations with the president, 67 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 2: you know, where they talked through a variety of things, 68 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: but he sort of delivered the bad news to the 69 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 2: President about some of the problems Boeing had had, and 70 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 2: the transition team response at the time was along the 71 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 2: lines of what can we do to help with these delays. 72 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: To help keep the Air Force one project under four 73 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: billion dollars, the Trump administration agreed to drop some special 74 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: features like the ability to refuel mid air. Trump also 75 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: roped in his new Department of Government Efficiency, which is 76 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: tasked with reducing government spending and maximizing productivity, and the 77 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: man in charge of that department is Elon Musk, whose 78 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: company SpaceX is one of Boeing's main competitors when it 79 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: comes to securing NASA contracts. Now, Musk's scrutiny of Boeing 80 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: and its work with the US government could test the 81 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: company's path to recovery. One afternoon in December, Musk's own 82 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: jet landed at a Boeing facility in San Antonio, Texas. 83 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: It's where Boeing is working on the new Air Force 84 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 2: one aircraft. 85 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: According to air traffic that Julie and her team monitored, 86 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: Musk's jet landed just a few hours after another plane 87 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: which was carrying Boeing CEO Kelly Ordberg. 88 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 2: And the two aircraft were parked right next to each other, 89 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: and that's how we confirmed that there had been this 90 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 2: highly unusual meeting between one of Boeing's main rivals and 91 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 2: a huge critic of the company and its new leadership. 92 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: I just wonder sort of what you know of the 93 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: substance of the conversation that took place that day, or 94 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: I guess, more broadly, sort of what Elon Musk was 95 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: doing there at that airfield in Texas. 96 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: We know he was there on behalf of the president. 97 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 2: We don't know what was discussed. The meeting we think 98 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 2: took about two hours, again just based on the jet 99 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 2: traffic in and out of the airport. But interestingly, a 100 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 2: week later, when Musk was asked on Twitter about Boeing. 101 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: He spoke very highly of the new CEO Ortberg, so 102 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 2: it feels like he met the moment, But really we 103 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: won't know that for a while. 104 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: From there, both jets flew to Florida, specifically to Palm Beach. 105 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 1: Ortberg has a house there, and Musk has spent a 106 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: lot of time at the President's resort. 107 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 2: It's just fascinating to me that they both wound up 108 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: in the vicinity of mar A Lago and Trump. And 109 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 2: doesn't that sort of encapsulate this moment in time? Ortberg 110 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: as the chief of the largest US exporter on the 111 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: global stage, with a very volatile, unpredictable president and a 112 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: new set of characters around Trump. 113 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: So how is Ortburg managing that unusual position and the 114 00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 1: hurdles Trump presidency could throw in his way? Boeing succeeding 115 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: at pulling things together? That's coming up. President Trump's relationship 116 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: with Boeing goes way back almost thirty years. Before he 117 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: was negotiating deals with the Airliner on behalf of the 118 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: US government, he was buying a fleet of Boeing jets himself. 119 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: Donald Trump bought the Eastern Shuttle for a price tag 120 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: of three hundred and sixty five million dollars. 121 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 3: You had other people wanting this very much, as we 122 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,119 Speaker 3: all know, and it was just really a nice victory. 123 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: Within three years, he'd sold the Trump Shuttle airline, but 124 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: he never stopped caring about planes, and his tone on 125 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: Boeing has fluctuated over the years. 126 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 2: One of the first things he did when he was 127 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:50,239 Speaker 2: elected in twenty sixteen was this kind of fiery tweet 128 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 2: about Air Force One being over budget. Boeing is building 129 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 2: a brand new seven forty seven air Force One. He wrote, 130 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: costs are out of control, more than more brilliant cancel order. 131 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: Soon after the tweet, he told reporters he might cancel 132 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: Boeing's Air Force one contract. 133 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 2: I think it's ridiculous. I think Boeing is doing a 134 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 2: little bit. 135 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 3: Of a number. 136 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 2: And Boeing used that to actually set up a series 137 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 2: of meetings with the President and to establish this tight 138 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 2: relationship with him, and he became something of a cheerleader 139 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 2: for Boeing, though he also didn't hesitate to sling a 140 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 2: few darts at the company as well, because that's Trump 141 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 2: being Trump. But early on he visited Boeing's plan in 142 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: South Carolina. 143 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 3: I want to thank the great people of South Carolina got. 144 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 2: Boeing's aircraft were the backdrop to the speech that he gave, 145 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 2: and he ended it. 146 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 3: May God bless the United States of America, and God 147 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 3: bless Boeing. 148 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 2: With God Bless Boeing, which again I mean just really 149 00:08:55,720 --> 00:09:00,719 Speaker 2: unconventional and sort of a break with the usual presidential decorum. 150 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: But I think it just reinflorced that Trump was invested 151 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 2: in this company. They generate a big trade surplus for 152 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 2: the US in aerospace. It's one of the industries where 153 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 2: the US definitely exports more than it imports. 154 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: For all of Trump's criticism and praise of Boeing, there's 155 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: a truth that, at least for now, he can't avoid. 156 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: Boeing is the biggest US exporter, and in many ways 157 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: it represents the kind of American manufacturing Trump pushes in 158 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: speeches and proposed policies. 159 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 3: We want products made by our workers in our factories, 160 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 3: stamped with those four magnificent words made in the USA. 161 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 2: Boeing planes are built in the US, though some of 162 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 2: the engineering is done overseas, and they have a global 163 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 2: supply chain. But it's an American made product. 164 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: But that also makes the company vulnerable to Trump's protectionism. 165 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 2: Anytime you talk about roiling global trade, definitely, I think 166 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 2: heartspeat a little faster at Boeing. 167 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: The trade war during Trump's first term cost the company 168 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: its market lead in China, which hasn't placed a large 169 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: aircraft order with Boeing since twenty seventeen, and the tariff's 170 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: Trump is threatening this time around could take an even 171 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: bigger toll on a company whose finances are already suffering. 172 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 2: I think they are girding definitely for some more turbulence, 173 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 2: and it goes beyond China. I mean, if Trump goes 174 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 2: after other friendlier countries. One of the easy ways to 175 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 2: retaliate is if you don't want to buy American you 176 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 2: just don't buy American planes. 177 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: Boeing's main competitor, Airbus, is European, and in the wake 178 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: of Boeing's repeated disasters, business has been good. Just last year, 179 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: Airbus delivered more than twice as many commercial jets to 180 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: customers as Boeing did. Meanwhile, Boeing reported its fourth quarter 181 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 1: earnings on Tuesday, and it had the largest annual loss 182 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: since twenty twenty. The cash train over fourteen billion dollars. 183 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 1: Ortberg told shareholders he'll be overhauling the company's portfolio to 184 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: get things back on track, and on CNBC yesterday he 185 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: sounded resolved about his collaboration with Musk and Doge on 186 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: the Air Force one project. 187 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 2: The President wants a airplay sooner, and so we're working 188 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 2: with the a lot and the team to figure out 189 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 2: what can we do to pull up the schedule. 190 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,719 Speaker 1: Of that aircraft. Julie says. The company also tried to 191 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: buy itself some time last year by raising some twenty 192 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,559 Speaker 1: four billion dollars in capital, so they've. 193 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 2: Got a little bit of runway here, but they've also 194 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 2: been burning through cash at just an extraordinary pace over 195 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 2: the last year, like to the tune of around four 196 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 2: billion a quarter, and that's got to stop. 197 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: Boeing is also still being monitored by the Federal Aviation Administration. 198 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: Trump hasn't yet appointed a new head of that agency 199 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: since its previous leaders stepped down on inauguration Day, but 200 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: Trump's Transportation Secretary pick Sean Duffy has called for tough 201 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: love and oversight when it comes to Boeing in the meantime. 202 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: In February Boeing is expected to give the US Air 203 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: Force an update on the Air Force one project, and 204 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: Ortberg does not want to disappoint the president. 205 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 2: But some of the milestones on the plane, it looks like, 206 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 2: have slid and so it raises the risk that the 207 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 2: plane could show up really, really late during this administration 208 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 2: or even after he leaves office. So this is kind 209 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 2: of a tension point from Boeing early on, just how 210 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,439 Speaker 2: do you manage this? Are there resources they could throw 211 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 2: at this and could Musk in his new capacity step 212 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 2: in and maybe help. 213 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gura. 214 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Julia Press. It was edited 215 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: by our senior producer Naomi Shaven, Aaron Edwards, and Benedict Cammell. 216 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: It was mixed and sound designed by Alex Segura, factchecked 217 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 1: by Jessica bec and Andreana Tapia. Our senior editor is 218 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Ponso. Our executive producer is Nicole Beemster Boor Sage 219 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: Bauman is Bloomberg's head of Podcasts. If you liked this episode, 220 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: make sure to subscribe and review The Big Take wherever 221 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. It helps people find the show, 222 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.